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Speaker 1: Welcome a good game with Sarah Spain, where we can

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Speaker 1: only hope to be as good as shit talker as Marta.

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Speaker 1: After the Portland Thorns ended Orlando's twenty four game on

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Speaker 1: beaten streak on Friday, team social posted quote, unbeaten records

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Speaker 1: are made to be broken. Thanks for coming to Orlando

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Speaker 1: with a big fat l in Orlando, and Marta popped

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Speaker 1: up in the comments saying, quote, best of luck fighting

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Speaker 1: for a place in the playoffs smiley face emoji. So good,

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Speaker 1: so good. On today's show, we're going to be chatting

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Speaker 1: with recently retired WNBA player Leja Clarendon about their eleven

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Speaker 1: year career playing for basically half the league, the grief

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Speaker 1: that comes with retirement, and finding a home in sport.

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Speaker 1: We're going to give you more news tomorrow, but today

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Speaker 1: we're going to get straight to that interview. It's coming

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Speaker 1: up right after this joining us now. They played eleven

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Speaker 1: seasons in the WNBA, were the first openly non binary

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Speaker 1: WNBA player and the first active WNBA player to have

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Speaker 1: top surgery. Former vice president of the Players Association, she

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Speaker 1: uses all the pronouns and as the founder of the

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Speaker 1: Laisia Clarendon Foundation. He played for the Indiana Fever, the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Dream, the Connecticut Son, the New York Liberty, the

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Speaker 1: Minnesota Lynx, and the Los Angeles Sparks, and is one

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Speaker 1: of just four players in Sparks franchise history to put

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Speaker 1: up a triple double before announcing his retirement at the

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Speaker 1: end of this season. She's a proud Berkeley alum. She

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Speaker 1: and her badass wife Jessica Clarendon are enjoying the ups

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Speaker 1: and downs of parenthood and we've both collected checks from

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Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors despite never suiting up. It's Leasia Clarendon.

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Speaker 2: What's up, Lasia, what's up? I love the I played

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Speaker 2: for half the league. That's like my favorite part I

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Speaker 2: really have.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm saddest about your retirement because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to see if you could try to hit every team

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Speaker 1: and you had to get moving because the expansion teams

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Speaker 1: were going to make it a little tougher.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it last.

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Speaker 1: Fair, fair, fair fair. Also regarding the Golden State Warriors,

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Speaker 1: I met Lasia for the first time in person when

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Speaker 1: we did a panel for Women's History Month for the

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Speaker 1: Warriors that they were going to like do all this

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Speaker 1: stuff with and it was so great to be flown

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Speaker 1: out and spend time with these incredibly brilliant people. And

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Speaker 1: that's when I first learned about your brilliant lesia. And

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Speaker 1: then of course it never ran because COVID hit and

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Speaker 1: my husband always thought it was funny though, that I

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Speaker 1: had a check from the Warriors. She was like, you

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Speaker 1: got to frame that and just say that You've got

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Speaker 1: a couple of minutes in garbage times.

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Speaker 2: Seriously, that was a bummer because it was a really

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Speaker 2: dope just group of people and it like, yeah, never shared.

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Speaker 3: I think about that like every now.

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Speaker 1: And it's such a good conversation there.

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Speaker 3: Floating somewhere in someone's you know, desktop storage.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk retirement first. Congratulations eleven seasons in the w

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Speaker 1: You've only had a few weeks. But how's retirement treating

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Speaker 1: you so far?

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Speaker 3: So far?

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Speaker 2: It's amazing, no regrets, super at peace. I'm enjoying like

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Speaker 2: every minute of waking up and like making my schedule.

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Speaker 3: Whatever the what can we cost on here? We definitely

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Speaker 3: can oh hell yeah, okay, whatever the I want it

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Speaker 3: to be.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I know it's you, Sarah, so you guys, Ale, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just making my schedule whatever I want it to be

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Speaker 2: every day, which is lovely, which is just you know,

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Speaker 2: like getting your body back from sports. Oh that's been

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Speaker 2: like the most beautiful part about it. It's like I

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Speaker 2: don't have to train today. I can just go for

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Speaker 2: a walk, I could ride my bike, I could do nothing.

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Speaker 1: That's so relatable, Thank you, because I remember talking to

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Speaker 1: like Sue Bird and Megan Rapino and they struggled a

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Speaker 1: bit more with that because they liked that part of

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Speaker 1: it eventually, but at the very beginning, the first few

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Speaker 1: days and weeks, they were like, wait, no one's telling

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Speaker 1: me what to do. What am I supposed to do?

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Speaker 1: If no one's telling me what to do and where

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Speaker 1: to be? And you're already past that, you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: on to Like, ooh, how nice. I don't have to

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Speaker 1: go for a run unless I want to. I prechoose

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Speaker 1: what I want to do.

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Speaker 2: I'm a Taurus and I love like opulence and luxury

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Speaker 2: and taking back. I love to cook, so I've been

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Speaker 2: cooking time, going to farmers Market every weekend.

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Speaker 1: Oh what a dream.

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Speaker 3: Yeah that sounds so nice.

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Speaker 1: The best ever, eating my best life. You said after

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Speaker 1: retiring that you didn't want people to ask you what's next.

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Speaker 1: You wanted to really be in the moment and appreciate

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Speaker 1: what you've accomplished as a player. Have you been able

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Speaker 1: to do that? I have.

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Speaker 2: I was actually talking to my therapist about that, of one,

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Speaker 2: how to answer that question of just like figuring out

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Speaker 2: that I am really content right now, but the pressure

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Speaker 2: from the outside is that, like people keep asking me

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Speaker 2: what's next?

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Speaker 3: What do you want to do?

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Speaker 2: And I'm actually really content right now, not knowing what's

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Speaker 2: next and really just being in this reflective mode. Honestly

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Speaker 2: being in a deep amount of grief. Today it feels

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Speaker 2: light you, thank god I'm on this podcast. But other

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Speaker 2: days it's just been heavy and I've just sobbed and cried,

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Speaker 2: and I've felt the heartbreak of like losing a part

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Speaker 2: of myself, of like grieving like this death of Lesia

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Speaker 2: Claren in the Basketball Player. And so I've really been

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Speaker 2: honoring myself, honoring my career. That's been something I've done

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Speaker 2: over a decade professionally, but also my entire life of

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Speaker 2: just being really in that space of like I did

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Speaker 2: something for a long time and that's really beautiful, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Hi, honey, Oh my god, I love that we're

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Speaker 1: getting a little bit of momhood right here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I hear a kid.

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Speaker 1: Know, we're definitely keeping a little bit of that, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's too cute, little just hear up the stairs, yep, okay.

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Speaker 1: I love and hate the amount of introspection that retirement

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Speaker 1: from sports requires at a young age, because most people,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is that's their identity, they can usually do

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Speaker 1: it for a really long time unless something tragically takes

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Speaker 1: it away. A cook, a musician, even a dancer, they

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Speaker 1: can kind of change the way their body moves, but

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Speaker 1: there's only certain opportunities to really participate at the highest

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Speaker 1: levels in sport, and that timeline is so short. Is

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Speaker 1: there a part of you that when you thought about

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Speaker 1: this coming down the pike, you had already started to

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Speaker 1: think about a change in identity and how you would

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Speaker 1: deal with it. Or are you finding that the finality

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Speaker 1: of it has has hit you in a way that

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Speaker 1: you know now you're having to process like what do

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Speaker 1: I want? And who am I? And what's next?

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Speaker 2: Oh God, A little bit of bolt, I would say,

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Speaker 2: like I in twenty nineteen was one of my first

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Speaker 2: major injuries, and I'm really grateful forward I was playing

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Speaker 2: for the Connecticut sign I busted my ankle in practice

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Speaker 2: and I was out for three months, so just relatively

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Speaker 2: like short for a major surgery like an injury. But

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Speaker 2: what that injury did was I was in therapy at

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Speaker 2: the time. It helped me start to examine my relationship

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Speaker 2: with basketball, and I like couldn't believe basketball did that

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Speaker 2: to me. I was like, how could it let me down?

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Speaker 2: How could it? I've given it everything in my whole

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Speaker 2: life and it's been the way I've coped and like

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Speaker 2: it just I felt mad at basketball, and my.

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Speaker 3: Therapist was like, Oh, let's talk about this more.

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Speaker 2: And so I started to examine the way I'm in

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Speaker 2: relationship with basketball, and I never thought about it that way,

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Speaker 2: even though.

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Speaker 3: I've done it my whole life. It's like my longest

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Speaker 3: relationship with my entire life.

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Speaker 2: And so in that way, I I would say the

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Speaker 2: last five years have really prepared me for the moment

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Speaker 2: to retire now because I've done a lot of work

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Speaker 2: around my identity and around sport and like restructuring my

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Speaker 2: relationship to the game of basketball, and I've healed quite

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Speaker 2: a bit, and I think that's what allowed me to

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Speaker 2: be able to walk away and be like, I know

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Speaker 2: it's time.

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Speaker 3: This year.

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Speaker 2: In the last couple of years, I had just been

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Speaker 2: wrestling with like, all right, bodies moving slower, like I'm healing.

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Speaker 2: I could see some of the you know, toxic parts

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Speaker 2: of sports a little more than I could before. I'm

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Speaker 2: not using it to cope in the same way I was,

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Speaker 2: because I feel, you know, worthy and enough, so I'm

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Speaker 2: not like doing these million tasks to like prove to

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Speaker 2: myself that I'm worthy. Like I was just healing, and

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Speaker 2: now I could see the sport a lot differently, and

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Speaker 2: I still loved the game with all my heart, but

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Speaker 2: I was able to be like, all right, it's time,

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Speaker 2: and my body knows it's time. My spirit, yeah, all

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Speaker 2: of you was just like it's time and that's okay.

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Speaker 1: You did such a panel at our espnW summit last

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Speaker 1: year with er fight Master and Nicky Hilts, talking about

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Speaker 1: trans participation in sports and gender and sport, and I

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Speaker 1: remember very distinctly you speaking to not only the responsibility

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Speaker 1: I think of people who identify as women in being

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Speaker 1: inclusive and in understanding how to embrace non binary and

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Speaker 1: trans people as part of the sort of larger effort

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Speaker 1: of Women for Equality, But also you spoke to how

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Speaker 1: sport played such a massive role in giving you a

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Speaker 1: space to feel the most yourself, which was wild because

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Speaker 1: it's one of the only truly gendered spaces we have.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk about that, because I wonder if part

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Speaker 1: of the reason you didn't need to cope using basketball

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Speaker 1: as much is because you had decided I know my identity,

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Speaker 1: I know who I am, and I don't need to

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Speaker 1: look for that in sport, the same way as I

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Speaker 1: used to.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, I forget how good of an

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Speaker 2: interview you are. Yes, yes, I think that was part

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Speaker 2: of it. Like I just have done so much healing

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Speaker 2: and I've I don't need it, like you almost answered

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Speaker 2: the question for me. I all it felt walking away,

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Speaker 2: It felt like I completed, like I'm doing some handjest

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Speaker 2: or such a fancy but like this full circle moment,

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Speaker 2: or how people say I finished the chapter of a book,

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Speaker 2: or I think I might even finish that entire book,

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Speaker 2: and I think my life is going to be multiple book.

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Speaker 2: And it was just like, wow, I turned the last

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Speaker 2: page and it's done, and that's okay. And when you

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Speaker 2: finish a really good book sometimes like you're sad because

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Speaker 2: you love the characters and what it made you feel

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Speaker 2: and how you belong and how you related to it,

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Speaker 2: all the things. But it's okay because you finish the story.

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Speaker 2: That's very much how my career feels. Is like I

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Speaker 2: feel the pain and the ache, and I missed the

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Speaker 2: I already missed like my teammates and those interactions, but

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Speaker 2: I needed it to belong so much, and I loved

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Speaker 2: that I belonged, and I loved that sport gave me,

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Speaker 2: you know, an outlet for my competitive miss for my fierceness.

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Speaker 2: It gave me all the coping tools to deal with

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Speaker 2: family drama. It gave me, you know, tours around the world.

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Speaker 2: It gave me financial stability, and I'm just out of

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Speaker 2: place now with my family, with my sense of self,

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Speaker 2: with my healing. Even with all the work I've done

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Speaker 2: outside of sport, building my own brand and my own legacy,

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Speaker 2: I would say is like that all happened through sport.

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Speaker 2: But it's okay for.

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Speaker 3: Me to like lay down the basketball now that the playing.

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Speaker 1: Part of it right, and you get to be your

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Speaker 1: full self everywhere instead of just getting to express parts

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Speaker 1: of yourself on the court and relying on that space

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Speaker 1: to be included. You know, you and I have spoken

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Speaker 1: over a number of different years as you've been on

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Speaker 1: this journey of identification and self discovery, and you began

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Speaker 1: publicly identifying as nonsensegender back in twenty fifteen, but it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until December of twenty twenty that you posted Instagram

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Speaker 1: about your non binary trans identity and you wrote, quote,

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Speaker 1: existing outside of the binary for me is freedom. I've

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Speaker 1: learned that my gender doesn't just fit into these molds

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Speaker 1: that keep trying to hold it down and box it in.

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Speaker 1: I know that my gender will keep evolving because we

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Speaker 1: change and grow and shape shift and expand I know that,

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Speaker 1: as Andrew Gibson says, my pronouns haven't even been invented yet.

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Speaker 1: I know that we all have masculinity and femininity inside

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Speaker 1: of us, and mind show up equally and holy and fully.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you were worried at that moment that

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Speaker 1: identifying as trans and using that word would affect your

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Speaker 1: status as a player in the w.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I yeah, I definitely did at times. I

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Speaker 2: think more so with surgery I was worried, which came

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Speaker 2: in the following year, right of like mixing up my

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Speaker 2: years of February, but a lot of There were a

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Speaker 2: ton of bills going on at that time, So I

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Speaker 2: was a little bit worried about always becoming like the

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Speaker 2: the poster child of like the rights fight, Like I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to become like the wedge issue, like my story,

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Speaker 2: my body, my person, becoming like this thing that they

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Speaker 2: propped up to be like look see this person, like well,

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Speaker 2: basically what all the Twitter trolls do.

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Speaker 3: I didn't want that to become.

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Speaker 2: Like knocking on my front door and the way that

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Speaker 2: would affect me and my family. But I really struggled

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Speaker 2: with going through the bubble season where I knew so

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Speaker 2: in the bubble season in twenty twenty was when I

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Speaker 2: knew I didn't want to have breast anymore. And I

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Speaker 2: was starting to reconcile with like, oh, okay, I'm definitely

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Speaker 2: like a trans person, like an umbrella term, like what

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Speaker 2: does that mean? I'm gender nonconforming, I'm gender fluid, like

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Speaker 2: just all of those words that like sometimes help us,

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Speaker 2: sometimes make it more confusing, but I definitely knew. I

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Speaker 2: was like, all right, I'm a trans person. I don't

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Speaker 2: want these breasts anymore. And I really struggled with the

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Speaker 2: fact like in the bubble that like that wasn't visible

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Speaker 2: and I was one of the main leaders that was

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Speaker 2: being seen as like a black queer woman, but wasn't

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Speaker 2: being seen as like a black.

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Speaker 3: Queer trans person.

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Speaker 2: And that was a really hard just like mental reckoning

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Speaker 2: for myself. And I wasn't quite ready or didn't know

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Speaker 2: how to like say it, like hey, you guys, you

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Speaker 2: know the person leading this movement is actually like a

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Speaker 2: trans person. And that was a weird I don't even

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Speaker 2: know how to word it, just invisible visibility that was

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Speaker 2: happening for me internally, And so that December post for

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Speaker 2: me was like, no, it's time to just say it

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Speaker 2: out loud for myself and to just put it out

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Speaker 2: into the ether that like, yes, I'm a trans person,

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Speaker 2: like let's make it clear. Even though I still had

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Speaker 2: breast at the time, I was kind of learning you

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Speaker 2: didn't have to like, you know, like surgery doesn't make

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Speaker 2: you who you are.

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Speaker 3: It was me.

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Speaker 2: Getting to a place where I'm just like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I need to say this and put a stake in

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Speaker 2: the ground for myself.

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Speaker 1: Well, not long after, it was January of twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 1: that you publicly announced that you had the gender affirming

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Speaker 1: top surgery. Can you take us back at that time,

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Speaker 1: how did your team, which was the Liberty, your teammates,

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Speaker 1: the league, did anyone react to the to the surgery

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Speaker 1: and your identity in a way that was unexpected or

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Speaker 1: did you feel supported?

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Speaker 2: I felt super supported, and I did a lot of

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Speaker 2: the like internal advocacy work for myself, which I hope,

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Speaker 2: I actually know will blaze a trail for other people

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Speaker 2: because it won't be the first time let's say player X,

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Speaker 2: you know, goes to Terry Jackson or to Kathy to say, hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to have the surgery or I'm going to

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Speaker 2: come out as trans like they already have done it.

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Speaker 2: But I had to do a lot of that labor

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Speaker 2: and talking with Terry, and she was great, and she

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Speaker 2: had to get educated in a lot of ways, and

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Speaker 2: her and I are super close. Terry Jackson the head

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Speaker 2: of the union, And then we would get on a

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Speaker 2: phone call with Kathy Angle, our commissioner, and talk about like, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm worried about I'm having this surgery.

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Speaker 3: I'm worried about when I announced it.

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Speaker 2: Because I want to say it publicly that I'm going

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Speaker 2: to become like this big issue. So I just named

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Speaker 2: it to them, and Kathy was super firming and was like,

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Speaker 2: you absolutely belong in our league.

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Speaker 3: This changes nothing, Like I teared up. I'm getting a

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Speaker 3: little choked up right now, like thinking back on it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I just hearing the commissioner of your league

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Speaker 2: like affirm your identity and who you are and also

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Speaker 2: say like you still belong here was really important for me.

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Speaker 2: And so yeah, it was happening internally. And then I said,

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Speaker 2: I need you guys to put out a statement the

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Speaker 2: same day I post.

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Speaker 3: So then when people look right and say, oh, this

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Speaker 3: is okay.

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Speaker 2: This WA player posted about Chance being Chance having comp surgery,

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Speaker 2: like then they're going to live to the league and

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Speaker 2: the Union and the New York Liberty and be like

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Speaker 2: what does this mean? And what it means is like

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Speaker 2: what Kathy's statement said, what everyone's statement said was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It was great, it was beautiful. It was like we

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Speaker 3: accept Asia, there's a place for them in this league.

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Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 2: And it was like that leadership kind of like it

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Speaker 2: didn't give room for question for people to turn it

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Speaker 2: into a debate because the leadership was leading the way

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Speaker 2: it should right when a player like me did come.

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Speaker 1: Yep oh, and the Liberty sent out a statement using

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Speaker 1: pronouns for all the players. So that wasn't about reacting,

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Speaker 1: It was about being proactive to make sure that people

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Speaker 1: were dealing with that professionally and respectfully as well. What

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Speaker 1: do you think the biggest most common misconception is about

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Speaker 1: you competing as a transperson something that you want to debunk.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't go on Twitter anymore, but that

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Speaker 2: one's usually like there and I'm like, thanks you really, seev.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very affirming. Thank you exactly.

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Speaker 3: I like, yeah, I love it, Thanks, appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Er fight Master on their podcast Jocular, which I'm obsessed

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Speaker 1: with the other day, said they got in a fight

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Speaker 1: with a woman like driving that was driving terribly and

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Speaker 1: the woman was like, just because you look like a

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Speaker 1: dude doesn't mean you could try, and and Er was like,

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Speaker 1: thank you.

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Speaker 3: That's so boring.

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Speaker 1: Uh do you think? I mean? I think, first of all,

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Speaker 1: great that you're not on Twitter listening to that garbage,

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Speaker 1: but also great that you can't think of one that

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Speaker 1: people seem to really get it And understand, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's part of the W being such a progressive league.

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Speaker 1: Do you think there are any changes that the league

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Speaker 1: could make that would benefit other trans or non binary

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Speaker 1: players in the future as the league continues to grow.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think one the league and internally the un

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00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,560
Speaker 2: has done a good job having educational sessions, so I

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00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 2: know that there have been players who've had questions, which

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00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 2: there's no problem with questions or curiosities.

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Speaker 3: There was some players at AU when we.

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Speaker 2: Had the year I played at Athletes Unlimited, we had

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00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 2: Chris Moser come and do an educational series and questions.

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Speaker 2: Players there from the W have questions and it was

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Speaker 2: interesting because I was able to like witness them because

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Speaker 2: normally I'm not in the room, and I specifically when

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Speaker 2: we did the WNBA trainings, I said like, I shouldn't

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00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,120
Speaker 2: be there because one like people should feel safe enough

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00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,680
Speaker 2: to just ask whatever question might feel silly or dumb

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Speaker 2: or defensive even but if I'm in the room, I

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Speaker 2: don't feel.

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Speaker 3: Like people will ask that, right.

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Speaker 2: So like the educational sessions the W's done have been

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Speaker 2: really good, and I made sure to be out of

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00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,119
Speaker 2: that space so they could have them and have the

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00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,679
Speaker 2: room to ask all the things and debunk all the

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00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,640
Speaker 2: myths and whatever they need to say. So I think

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Speaker 2: they can continue to have the educational sessions because that's

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00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 2: always been what our league has done.

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00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,200
Speaker 3: From a player's perspective, is like educate ourselves.

383
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,560
Speaker 2: First and know that it's okay to ask questions and

384
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,120
Speaker 2: not know and be like, hey, I hear these some

385
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:31,919
Speaker 2: these are some of the rumors, or these are things

386
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 2: I hear about testosterone, or these are things I hear

387
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 2: about trans people. So I think the second thing the

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00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 2: league can do is continue to market, not continue to

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Speaker 2: shift the way we market our gender non conforming players.

390
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 2: So I think, like there's all these marketing dollars going

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00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,879
Speaker 2: towards the league right now, which is so beautiful, Like

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00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,440
Speaker 2: the Skims campaign is amazing, Like I love love seeing

393
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 2: can bring my teammate in and like everyone just looks

394
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Speaker 2: like amazing.

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Speaker 3: I love seeing like these.

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00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,359
Speaker 1: Really nailed it. It's beautiful but not sexualized and that

397
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Speaker 1: was necessary.

398
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Speaker 2: Yes, Like that is so much growth. So like these

399
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 2: high end dollars, Like we're at this place in our league.

400
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,399
Speaker 2: We're like I'm walking in with these two rookies on

401
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 2: my team and they're wearing like Gucci boots and I'm like,

402
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,200
Speaker 2: where did you guys get these? Like you guys got

403
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 2: money now, Like this is amazing, Like you got these

404
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,800
Speaker 2: nil deals, You've got multiple pair of these boots, Like

405
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,080
Speaker 2: you know you're not on the same rookie salary I

406
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 2: was on.

407
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 3: And I love that.

408
00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 2: And I still think our league also always struggles with

409
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,199
Speaker 2: not marketing the people who are masculine, and so you

410
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,919
Speaker 2: kind of saw the like Natasha Clouds and Kirsten Bells

411
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 2: talk about like what about a Walkser campaign, Like are

412
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,879
Speaker 2: we yes market our fem people who are beautiful? But

413
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,479
Speaker 2: like there's such a spectrum of gender expression in our league, right,

414
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,919
Speaker 2: and we know gender expression has nothing to do with

415
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Speaker 2: your sexual orientation or your gender identity.

416
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 3: It is just literally how you express yourself in your gender.

417
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,920
Speaker 3: And we have people who.

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00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,480
Speaker 2: Express themselves across the board in a beautiful, like amazing,

419
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Speaker 2: gorgeous even secon see like competitive, like eclectic way. We've

420
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 2: seen the tunnel Fits evolve in such a really really

421
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 2: cool way. So like are we marketing? I always I

422
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 2: talked about Simone Augustus on that panel, like marketing the

423
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 2: Simone Augustus of our era, Like are we learning, is

424
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,680
Speaker 2: the WNBA learning how they missed out on the simone?

425
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,119
Speaker 2: So like is Courtney Williams getting the marketing deals she

426
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:20,920
Speaker 2: should get? Now?

427
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,679
Speaker 3: Are we thinking of the Natasha cloud?

428
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 1: And how much is that the league versus the sponsors?

429
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,239
Speaker 1: And how do you get sponsors to step up and

430
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,680
Speaker 1: be in a space and understand that there's this big

431
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 1: market that's also looking to be like, to be seen,

432
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 1: to be represented. Yes, we're going to take a quick break.

433
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:43,120
Speaker 1: Plenty more from Lesia Clarendon right after this. For decades

434
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,439
Speaker 1: there were trans folks competing in sports and they abided

435
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 1: by all the different rules and policies across different levels

436
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: and age groups and states. There were really no issues

437
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 1: or controversies. And then in recent years trans participation started

438
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: to be politicized and laws were added to exclude trans

439
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,639
Speaker 1: athletes or public shaming, you know, forfeiting matches, lawsuits, all

440
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,120
Speaker 1: this stuff, and this push really it relies on perpetuating

441
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 1: a lie that trans athletes are dominant and dangerous, that

442
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 1: it's unfair, that it's threatening to women's sports, which is

443
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 1: particularly frustrating when it's people saying that who could not

444
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 1: give a shit about any other aspect of women's sports

445
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 1: that needs things like resources and safety and everything else. Yeah,

446
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 1: so how do we get people to see past that

447
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 1: propaganda and fear mongering to the reality of the situation,

448
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 1: which in some cases is one trans female athlete in

449
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,959
Speaker 1: an entire state that they are making a law around,

450
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,359
Speaker 1: for in Utah, that they are making a law around

451
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 1: only one of them participating in women's sports. Like, how

452
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: do we how do we You're so smart, how do

453
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: we get people to stop believing this garbage?

454
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 3: I know?

455
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 2: I mean I think you have to ask to the

456
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 2: question of the heart of like where the people are

457
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 2: coming from? Do they want to be educated on this topic?

458
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 2: Like education is one I think is really important. There's

459
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 2: a lot of disinformation out there, which is different from misinformation, right,

460
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 2: like people are like intentionally maliciously. The right is like

461
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 2: putting out information to make you feel like trans people

462
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 2: are taking over the sport and so kind of debunking now,

463
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: which I know there's orgs like the Women's Sports Foundation,

464
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: and there's people like Chris Moser and a lot of

465
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 2: other trans athletes who do do a ton of like

466
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,639
Speaker 2: educational videos when topics come up. So, I mean, some

467
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 2: ways I'm at a loss for words because I'm like,

468
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 2: it's just not frankly true. And then I love the

469
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 2: story of myself. That's like, I'm five foot nine, I've

470
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 2: played in the WMA for ten years. I came out

471
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 2: as trans in twenty one. I've played three more seasons,

472
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,479
Speaker 2: and it's like, you know, I had a really solid

473
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,679
Speaker 2: career before I came out as trans. I was already

474
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 2: a All star, Like I didn't start dunking all of

475
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 2: a sudden.

476
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 3: That might have been cool.

477
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: You know, it kind of hurts your hands when you do,

478
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: Like it's like, yeah, we don't become superhuman. And so

479
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 2: I think my question is always at the heart of

480
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 2: like we know these people exist, and one is like

481
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: starting with our humanity, like do you When I'm in

482
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 2: a conversation with the person, it's like, do you even

483
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 2: believe I should exist?

484
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 3: And it's answers no.

485
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 2: Then I'm like, Okay, I don't like have a good

486
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 2: day because I'm not going to debate or talk to

487
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 2: you about it if you believe and no chance people

488
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 2: are real and you're just like wait, okay, I keep

489
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 2: hearing this stuff Like then that's where like we can

490
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 2: have the conversation when we can talk about more of

491
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: the education and talk about the misinformation and disinformation out there.

492
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: But like, frankly, if you don't believe like trans people

493
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 2: or people should have a right to abortion or like

494
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 2: to my body, then I'm like you right, Like we're

495
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,239
Speaker 2: trying to break these people out and like take our

496
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 2: country back, and that's.

497
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to it's hard to get anywhere if

498
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: you can't start with the basic premise of like respect, right, yes,

499
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: respect for who people are. Yeah, PABULATORI did a really

500
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: fantastic interview actually with the one trans female athlete in

501
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: Ohio that they were making laws that we're going to

502
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: affect just her. So I highly recommend people go find

503
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 1: that episode. But I think giving specifics and giving real

504
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: people behind these stories is one place to start. But yeah,

505
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: if anyone has brilliant ideas on how to get people

506
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: to stop repeating the lies and the fear mongering that's

507
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: behind all this, that would be great. And I'm not

508
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: speaking to the politicians. I think it's quite clear that

509
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: their intent is to put women in their place and

510
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 1: to try to get back to some sort of Christo

511
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 1: fascist idea of what people's lives should look like and

512
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 1: force them into those binaries. But I mean, I mean

513
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: regular people might still be able to be suited into

514
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: understanding the nuances of the situation. Okay, I want to

515
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: talk about your WNB experience because we mentioned that you

516
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: played for half the league, which means you've got a

517
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: lot of perspective to offer. Can you tell like some

518
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,239
Speaker 1: of the biggest differences among the many franchises you played for.

519
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: Is there something that stands out to you about culture,

520
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 1: or resources, or attitude or or anything that's like, you know,

521
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: You've been to all these places and here's what I

522
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: came away with.

523
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: So I've played for all three ownership models, which is

524
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 2: really fascinating. So we have the casino ownership model, which

525
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 2: is like Vegas and Connecticut, so I played for Connecticut.

526
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 2: We have the independent ownership model with Kelly Loffler in Atlanta,

527
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: and I played for the NBA affiliated Indiana is where

528
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: I was drafted, and also Minnesota, so in New York

529
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: and so.

530
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 3: A lot of the I would say.

531
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 2: NBA and casino were the best resource, which makes sense

532
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: because independent ownership was a lot tougher. I think the

533
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: Seattle Storm have done a good job of that for

534
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 2: years as independent owned owned teams, but playing in Indiana

535
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 2: where I was drafted, where we just had a practice

536
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: cord and there was so much equality from the beginning

537
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 2: of how we were treated. I was at New York

538
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: at the tail end of just when they finished building

539
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: that locker, when I was done playing for that team,

540
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 2: and just saw like the level of like wealth and

541
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: money and resources that was being poured into like the

542
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: women's side of the game. And so I've also played

543
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 2: for a decade, so just seeing how from twenty thirteen

544
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: to twenty four or the money's changed and the investment

545
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: has changed, has been really fascinating. The Minnesota Links were

546
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 2: one of my favorite teams to play for because they

547
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 2: have a culture of winning and like Cheryl Reeve is

548
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: a coach that like is gonna demand when you step

549
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 2: on the court that there's a level to which you

550
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: play with And I think you're seeing that in the

551
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 2: finals right now, Like you and I remember stepping on

552
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 2: her core and there's like a little bit of fear.

553
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: You're just like, oh shit, like a fight, Like you're

554
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: gonna get your ass handed to you if you step

555
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: on that core. And it's very reminiscent to me of

556
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: Lynn Dunn, and that's who coached me my rookie year,

557
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 2: and she was so hard on me. And I think

558
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: like Lyndun, Stephanie White, and Cheryl Reeve are like three

559
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: of the best coaches that I've ever played for. And

560
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: it's their attention to detail, their ability to build relationships

561
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: with players, and there are standards that they set across

562
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,959
Speaker 2: the board. They don't care who you are, Like Lyn

563
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: Dunn did not care if itels Tamika Catchings or Leisiah Clarendon.

564
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 2: Cheryl Reeve does not care if it's an a FISA

565
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: Collier or her rookie Peelee, Like she's gonna hold them

566
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: to the exact same standard of like you when you're

567
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: out here, like you better when you still up between

568
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: these lines, you better show the up or get off

569
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: my court. Like I like when that had said that,

570
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 2: when there's times where if you messed up my rookie year,

571
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 2: there was no time to keep going over things, she

572
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: would literally say get off the court next, and then

573
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 2: I would be like, oh my god, like don't cry,

574
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: don't try, don't cry, stuff off, Oh my god.

575
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 3: Yep.

576
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: Set the expectation for sure, you mentioned that you were

577
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: leaving the Liberty right when they were building the locker room,

578
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: and obviously the Liberty has changed a ton in recent years.

579
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 1: But it felt like there was a strange ending for

580
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: you. You had played a lot of minutes, you had been

581
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: a big participant, and then when the Liberty waved you

582
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: you were playing. You know, you'd played like three minutes

583
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: in that first couple of games. It felt like there

584
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: was some either unfinished business or some sadness around that

585
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: that felt like bigger than just the general sadness of

586
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: being waived. Can you speak to that.

587
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: It's something I might write in the book one day.

588
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 2: It might just be something I like go. But there

589
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: was definitely some internal what's the word I'm looking for,

590
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 2: like internal issues that I was having with the New

591
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: York Liberty. And it's no shocker that I was waived,

592
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: or it should be a shock when I was on

593
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 2: a guaranteed contract. I played great for them in the

594
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 2: bubble season as a leader. I signed it to your deal,

595
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,959
Speaker 2: and then I'm waived that season after clearly being squashed

596
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: to the end of the bench. So I think you

597
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 2: can put some of the pieces together. I'm not ready

598
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 2: to talk about it publicly, and it might be something

599
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,239
Speaker 2: I write about one day, but it definitely was like

600
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: it ended with a dirty, nasty taste in my mouth

601
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 2: and was not treated very well, specifically that by the

602
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 2: basketball and GM side of it. The front office of

603
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: the New York Liberty is still phenomenal. I think Sandy's

604
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: phenomenal as a coach there. They've cleared out the house there,

605
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: and Kiah Clark's amazing. I still keep in touch with

606
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: quite a few people at the New York Liberty, but

607
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: it was a very specific aspect of it on the

608
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 2: basketball side.

609
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear that. I know you mentioned how

610
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: important it was for Katy Engeler to affirm you and

611
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 1: your identity when you announced you had top surgery. That

612
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: feels like a contrast a little bit to what we've

613
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: seen with players discussing receiving the hateful and racist messages

614
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: this season. Kathy sort of dropped the ball when asked

615
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: about that topic on a CNBC show. And I know

616
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: people aren't monolists. Kathy can do a lot of great

617
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: things and also sort of struggle to answer or speak

618
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 1: to some of these issues that players are talking about. Now,

619
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: Why do you think there was a disconnect on that

620
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: issue though, between what the players were experienced and maybe

621
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: Kathy was either aware of or able to speak to.

622
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 2: I still think in this moment in time, it's much

623
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: easier now to talk about LGBT inclusion than to.

624
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: Talk about racism, hands down.

625
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,479
Speaker 2: So I think it's Kathy struggling with and our holy

626
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: grappling with like Caitlin Clark's coming into the league, the

627
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: fan base, and how do we talk about this nuanced

628
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: conversation of race and like all of these things, Like

629
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: the podcast could be just on this topic alone, like

630
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 2: we could.

631
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,719
Speaker 3: Start one just to like get into all of these topics.

632
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: So I think that's just Kathy struggling, frankly as a

633
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: white woman to talk about race, and maybe some fear

634
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: about the backlash of the fan base or Caitlyn's you know,

635
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: fan base from Iowa.

636
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 3: So I'm not sure there, But I.

637
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 2: Know I've seen the ways that people will step up

638
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: for queerness but really still struggle with blackness. And that's

639
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 2: again where someone like me sets up the intersections of

640
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: those identities and it's sucks to see. And I think

641
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: it's just the players definitely expected more from her. But

642
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: I think it's that just not being ready or willing

643
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: or also equipped to talk about racism in a way

644
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: of like I basically major in sociology at CALL, and

645
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: people always like, how are you going to use that?

646
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: And it's like, that's literally what my career has come

647
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: to me.

648
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: And so like when you're looking at the w and

649
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: covering it, it's like you do almost need like to

650
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: at least take a class on intersectionality because there's so

651
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: many factors happening.

652
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 3: It's not as easy to just show up and cover it.

653
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,959
Speaker 2: Like a men's hockey league, right, you maybe have some

654
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: international like topics there about, but it's not you're not

655
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: just talking about predominantly mostly a bunch of white guys,

656
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: a bunch of white dis guys, right.

657
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: And you so like when you look at our league

658
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 3: and you're talking about.

659
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: Race and gender and sexuality, right and at a moment

660
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: in time when an election is coming and a star

661
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: player who is white, who people are saying has basically

662
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: saved our league, which we know is not true, which

663
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: is also coming out of time where the growth of

664
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: our league has been like bursting at the seams. And

665
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: also like the players are so damn excited for our

666
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: young players to come in. Like, once a player comes

667
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: into our league, like there ares, that's what our league does.

668
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: It's like you're a part of us now. So we're

669
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: rallying up everybody to be good, Like it doesn't matter

670
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: who you are, Angel Caitlin, like in all the rookies,

671
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: We're like, you're ours, and now you're a part of

672
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: a legacy that says we speak up for social justice right,

673
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: like we don't just ignore these issues. And so I

674
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: think we're seeing some of that all swirling in the

675
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: players and in the zyguys.

676
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 3: Absolutely this season. Yeah, And I would have hoped Kathy

677
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 3: could have done a better job of putting us in

678
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 3: the ground.

679
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree, And I think in the position

680
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: that she's in, it's necessary to do the work to

681
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: be able to do that, you know, in a very

682
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: honest moment, I'll tell you a bunch of years ago,

683
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: I remember I was talking to my buddy Scoop Jackson,

684
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: who's a longtime basketball writer ESPN guy, and I was

685
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: telling him that someone had messaged me and said, how

686
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: come you wear LGBTQ plus ally shirts like love Winds

687
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: and Rainbow stuff and you'll you never wear anything for

688
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: like Black History Month, and I said, I feel like

689
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: I would be like made fun of or accused of appropriating,

690
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: or it doesn't feel comfortable in the same way to

691
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: be an ally to that group. But I don't know

692
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,479
Speaker 1: why I am an ally, but I don't. It doesn't

693
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: feel the same. And I remember talking to Scoop about

694
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: it and saying, why does it feel like allyship for

695
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: LGBTQIA plus comes easily and is embraced, and allyship sometimes

696
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: in terms of race is so much more complicated and fraught.

697
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: And one of the things he said that was sort

698
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: of a wake up for me and for a lot

699
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 1: of other white women and white people I think, is

700
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: that there's an expectation of a cert amount of work

701
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: having been done that oftentimes isn't so if you come

702
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: to the space and hope that they'll be happy that

703
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: you're an ally, but you don't show that you really

704
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: get it, there's a frustration there of how are we

705
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: still here? And I felt then years later in twenty twenty,

706
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: when everything happened with George Floyd, that was writ large right,

707
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: It was yeah, we've been saying this, and yeah, you

708
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: don't get to just read white fragility now and then

709
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: be like, oh, got it. My bad. You should have

710
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: been here, you should have known this, you should have

711
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: asked about this, This should have mattered to you before now.

712
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: And I think for a lot of white people who

713
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: think they're doing their best like that sucks to feel like, Oh,

714
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: I haven't been doing my best. There's a lot more

715
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: I should have done, and that I think doesn't happen

716
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: quite as much in the queer community right. And it's

717
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: not a simple explanation, but I love that you said that,

718
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: and I do think that's maybe why Kathy felt like

719
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 1: this is easy ze breezy to say you're included and

720
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: we love you, and struggles a little bit to speak

721
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: to the nuance of the race issues that the league

722
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: is dealing with. There is so much intersectionality that that

723
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: has dominated so much of the conversation around the league

724
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: this year, and it's necessary and helpful and it's moving

725
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: us forward, but it also at times has kept us

726
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: from like straight up talking about basketball, which has been amazing. Yes,

727
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: I do want to make sure we talk about the

728
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: WNBA Finals while you're here too, because you have been

729
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: playing in these games against these teams and players as

730
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: recently as just a couple of weeks ago, so you

731
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: are uniquely positioned to talk to us about some of this.

732
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: And you mentioned you played for Cheryl Reeve. Game one

733
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: and two, the Links were playing catchup almost from the jump.

734
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: If you're in the huddle Wednesday, what do you think

735
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: coach Reeve is telling her team before tip off about

736
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: not allowing the Liberty to get off to a hot

737
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: start in game three and start that again.

738
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, one, they've watched a ton of film

739
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: on why they had the bad starts and what they did,

740
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: so they better come out of the cannon like protecting

741
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: home court. So I know she's you know, probably already

742
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: used a lot of the cuss words, but she's also

743
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: will build you new ones. Yeah, mitning new ones is like,

744
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: let's can go like we're not playing around. We're at

745
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: home now, like we need to handle business, you know.

746
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: And the Links usually are a team that gets out

747
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: to good start, so it was a little shocking to

748
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: see how much New York jumped on them. But New

749
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: York's at home, so like that was to be expected,

750
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 2: and I wasn't expecting the seventeen point lead but she's

751
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: definitely telling them like pick at the up, or you're

752
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: coming out or calling time out, like we can't. We

753
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: can't keep doing that and expect to win a championship,

754
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 2: right because we're playing a really good team.

755
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,479
Speaker 1: You keep mentioning that the series has shifts that will

756
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: make a big difference. We're going to be in Minneapolis

757
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: at the Target Center for games three and four. What's

758
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: the biggest difference you see with the Links now? Getting

759
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: to play on home court?

760
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: I mean, getting that home court advantage, in the crowd

761
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: behind you, sleeping in your own bed, all the things

762
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: we know about the comforts of being home that offers

763
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: you that the crowd is behind you, do you have

764
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: a little more swag in your step when you're in

765
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: your own space? Like these are two of the best

766
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 2: fan bases in the league, hands down, Target Center is

767
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: an amazing.

768
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 3: Place to play, So I think that's a big one.

769
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 2: It also puts it's the liberty of like when you're

770
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: playing against a home crowd, like silencing them is the

771
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: best feeling ever. So I'm curious to see how I

772
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: think the liberty.

773
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 3: Are going to come out.

774
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: They've got to be thinking still Game three, right, like

775
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 2: we have to still one in order to get back

776
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 2: to Barclays, and so their whole mission is like game

777
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: three is ours. They still the first one at our house.

778
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 2: We got to still the first one at their house.

779
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: I was listening to a Touch More with Sue Bert

780
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: and Megan Rappino, Great podcasts, and they were talking about

781
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: how lucky we all are to be watching Ifisa Collier

782
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: and Brianna Stewart and Asia Wilson and all these players

783
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: at the same time. They're all sort of peaking around

784
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,720
Speaker 1: the same time, and there hasn't really been that moment

785
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: in w's history before. You had some folks like Maya

786
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: Moore and DT at the same time, but they were

787
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 1: six or seven years between those two. These are some

788
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: really really spectacular players, all playing at the top of

789
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: their game around the same time. What's been your reaction

790
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: to playing against people like Brianna and Fi and Asia

791
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: and also just watching them from afar Oh.

792
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: My reaction to playing against them is, yeah, it's fun, right,

793
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: Like it's so much fun. Sometimes, Like something happened in

794
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: the game yesterday and I was like, yepes, do we

795
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: did that to me? Like it's like you're trying to

796
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: make an entry pass from the wing and you're like,

797
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 2: I could totally make this, and Stewie just like jumps

798
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: up and steals it, and you're like, what the fuck,

799
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: Like you're so long, Like how did you do that?

800
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 2: Like so kind of reminiscing, I'm like, yep, I've been there,

801
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 2: Like sorry to teach im, he'd even Courtney whoever turned

802
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 2: it over. Seeing Asia just as like we're growing up

803
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: or we're getting to watch yeah, like the Mayas, the

804
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan's, Like the level of talent and the way

805
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 2: what I love is the way everyone knows how good

806
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 2: these players are and they're scheming to stop them and

807
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: yet they can't stop them. Like that's the greatness we're

808
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 2: getting to watch. And I didn't know, honestly, Nefisa was

809
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: gonna be that good, Like she was drafted to Minnesota.

810
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 2: I played with her and Sil for one year, so

811
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: Sil was more the main player. Fee was solid. She

812
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: wasn't putting the ball on the floor quite as well.

813
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: Her three wasn't as consistent. Hadn't yet perfected that turnaround

814
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 2: off of one foot and so.

815
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: The feet away, the feet away, I call it the

816
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: feet away jumper.

817
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 2: So watching fee, like just develop into like an MVP

818
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 2: candidate has made me so proud and so happy for

819
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: her because she's a phenomenal human being and just like, oh,

820
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: you're you're like MVP good, Like I didn't know you

821
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: were going to be that good.

822
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 3: Like when so left, it was like, oh, Sophia was like, oh,

823
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 3: y'all didn't know. I'm letting you know.

824
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 2: And then I played with John Quell at Connecticut and

825
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 2: just her ability to shoot the three, her ability to

826
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 2: get inside, her length, and so the thing I've been

827
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 2: saying when I watched like now that I can just

828
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: be a fan too, is I'm like, it's not fair.

829
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: Like I literally just keep saying it's not fair. Are

830
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 2: you guys watching this? Like my wife's get tired in there.

831
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, Stewie is the five right now. She just

832
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 3: brought the ball up the court. This is not fair.

833
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: That's all I think about is like when I was

834
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: in high school, I was six feet tall and I

835
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: was a center. Yes, like sometimes I was a power

836
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: forward in AAU, I was a forward, but like I

837
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: would write now I would be a point guard. I

838
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 1: would have to have insane ball handling skills and shoots they're.

839
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 3: Like what, no, Yes, like that's the era why you've

840
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: been doing this?

841
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like the unicorn era of the NBA has

842
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: hit the WNBA full force right now and it's all

843
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: in unicorns.

844
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: Aye Wilson is coming off of Staggers and like, what, No,

845
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: you don't do that, like stay down there so we

846
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: can figure out.

847
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 3: How to double team you and do something.

848
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: She's like, no, I'm coming out with Staggers and now

849
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: I put the ball on the floor.

850
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: Like these big people are.

851
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: Like less basketball though. That's my favorite. That's that's I

852
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: love watching bigs that can move and shoot and handle

853
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: the ball like, oh my god. It's just it's just

854
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: the series has been so fun because there are so

855
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: many players like that and it's so cool to watch.

856
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: And also I am not at all wanting to be

857
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: a coach in this series. No all how to top

858
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,720
Speaker 1: those unicorns.

859
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 3: It's fun.

860
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 2: It's been really interesting on the defensive side, like on

861
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: Minnesota's gone to their really small lineup to counter because

862
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 2: like Sabrina is just getting threes in transition and it's.

863
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: Like, I played it. I know it's like, okay, guard.

864
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: Your but what do you do when Stewie brings the

865
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 2: ball down and the point guard goes to stop Stewie

866
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: because that's our job. But then he's a post player,

867
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: gonna get out to Sabrina on the wing in time.

868
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 2: Like no, So yeah, that's what the link said. So

869
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, let's go small so we can at least

870
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 2: keep a body on a body so fun.

871
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: We're so looking forward to game three. It's going to

872
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: be a blast. I've kept you too long. Thank you

873
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: so much for coming on. I know you said you

874
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: don't want people to ask you what's next, so I won't.

875
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: I'll just say that you are one of the most

876
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: thoughtful and brilliant people I know, so I'm dying to

877
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: see where you're going to direct that brain power and

878
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: that influence and all of that. So let us know

879
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: when you figure it out, I will give us a call.

880
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: We'll have you back. Thank you, thanks again Talisia for

881
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: joining us. We got to pay the bills. When we

882
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: come back. We toast another great speech writer. Welcome back, Slices.

883
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: So yesterday we told you to go back in the

884
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 1: archives to watch Teresa Weatherspoon's Naysmith Hall of Fame Anduction speech,

885
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: and now we've got another classic. On Sunday, Simone Augustus

886
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: marked her induction with a great speech of her own

887
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: well Slam poem. Actually, yep, that's right. Here's a bit

888
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: of it.

889
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 4: Home is where the heart is, and where the heart is,

890
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 4: it grows. I want to tell you a story about

891
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 4: a girl from the Bayou who cooked up a good

892
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 4: pot of gumbo, sprinkle in a little pistol Pete, Doctor

893
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 4: j Teresa Edwards, Alan Ivison, and many more. They all

894
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 4: helped me develop the game that you all adored.

895
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: Okay, go watch the rest of Simone's poem. It's only

896
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: three minutes and every word is perfect. We'll link to

897
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: it in our show notes. That's our first good game

898
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: play of the day, because, as you know, we always

899
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: love that you're listening, but we want you to get

900
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: in the game every day. So go watch Simone's induction

901
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: speech and go check out the documentary Will and Harper

902
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: on Netflix. It features Will Ferrell and his close friend

903
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: of thirty years, Harper Steele, who recently came out as

904
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: a trans woman, and the two decide that they are

905
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: going to embark on a cross country road trip to

906
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: process this new stage of their relationship and to let Harper,

907
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: who's always loved solo road trips across America, to feel

908
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: safe going to the dive bars and truck stops and

909
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: restaurants that she always loved. Lesia talked about the importance

910
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: of being able to ask questions, to learn and understand,

911
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: and this documentary does a beautiful job of showing that.

912
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: There's also a really funny and moving bit at the

913
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: end that's definitely worth sticking around for. Will and Harper.

914
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: Go check it out. We always love to hear from you.

915
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: Hit us up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot

916
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two

917
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: two o four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe,

918
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: rate and review. It's easy watch good answers to stupid questions,

919
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: rating a billion t out of five Birds of a

920
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: Feather review. Now. I know we like to say no

921
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: dumb questions around here, but there are stupid ones, like

922
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: when Billie Eilish was asked by an LA Times reporter

923
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: if she feels threatened by Chapel Rohan, Charlie XCX or

924
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: Sabrina Carpenter, what are we doing here? Can you even

925
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: imagine Harry Styles getting asked if he feels threatened by

926
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: I don't know ed Cheran or Bruto Mars or the Weekend.

927
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: Of course not, because we don't do that shit to guys.

928
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: And don't be fooled. This is not just some silly

929
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: girl fights garbage. This is a tool of the patriarchy

930
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 1: to keep women in their place, to make them think

931
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: there's only room for one, there's only one seat at

932
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: the table. It doesn't just happen in Hollywood. It happens

933
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 1: all over the place. And the only way to stop

934
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: these stupid ping questions and shout down that ideology is

935
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: to give great baking answers like Billie eilishes, Are you

936
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: kidding me? She responded, I'm so happy for these bitches.

937
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: It's a crazy world. When you get to the level

938
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: they're experiencing right now and they're doing great, fans are

939
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: drawn to them because they're fing awesome. End quote. Yes, Billy,

940
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: lift as you rise, make room at the table, build

941
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: a new skin table, and stop, for the love of God,

942
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: asking those stupid questions. Now it's your turn, rate and review.

943
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, slices, see you tomorrow. Good game, Lesia

944
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: Good Game, simonk you right wing out lets who use

945
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: trans folks to push bullshit agendas. Good Game with Sarah

946
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with

947
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on

948
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

949
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie

950
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,

951
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder,

952
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 1: Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Lindsay Cradowell. Production assistant from

953
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain