Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing
Speaker 1: you the latest news from the world to business and finance,
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Speaker 1: You can also listen to our radio show at two
Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on
Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, lot's to talk about.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it with Dr Joshua Sharfstein. Weistein for
Speaker 1: public health practice and community engagement that JOHNS. Hopkins Bloomberg
Speaker 1: School of Public Health. He joins us on the phone
Speaker 1: from Baltimore. The Bloomberg School of Public Health is supported
Speaker 1: by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP, and Bloomberg Philanthropiest.
Speaker 1: Dr Sharfstein, thanks so much for joining us. I want
Speaker 1: to start right in with the New York City news
Speaker 1: we heard today from Mayor build a Blasio July first
Speaker 1: full opening is that a realistic day or is it
Speaker 1: too too much too soon? Well, it depends what you
Speaker 1: mean by full opening. Obviously, Um, things are looking better
Speaker 1: and that means that we can do more more safely. Um.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure he doesn't mean going all the way
Speaker 1: back to twenty nineteen and pretending like the pandemic didn't happen. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be important, particularly for people
Speaker 1: who are not vaccinated, to be careful and to you know,
Speaker 1: wear masks when they're close to other people. And I
Speaker 1: think there's still going to be some prudent precautions necessary.
Speaker 1: What's your guidance to all of us who may have
Speaker 1: been already vaccinated and so as we go about our world.
Speaker 1: I know I still feel comfortable wearing a mask just
Speaker 1: about everywhere out in public and certainly at our office.
Speaker 1: What's your guidance to everyone? Well, I think we're starting
Speaker 1: to see certainly the recommendations for outside change. People who
Speaker 1: are vaccinating, you can feel pretty comfortable outside unless they're
Speaker 1: you know, completely crowded together with a lot of people
Speaker 1: breathing on them, um, in like a crowd. But um,
Speaker 1: and then you know, indoors, I think people will start
Speaker 1: to get more confident, particularly where they know that other
Speaker 1: people are vaccinated around them. UM. And I think that
Speaker 1: the real difference will be when the rates of transmission
Speaker 1: and the cases in the community go way down, because
Speaker 1: you know, even if your vaccine, you can still get sick.
Speaker 1: And we've seen cases like that and a very few
Speaker 1: small number of people, but that you know, it's possible
Speaker 1: to get quite sick. So I think that people will
Speaker 1: you still get if you're vaccinated, well, um, you know,
Speaker 1: particularly for older adults, um, they can get hospitalized and
Speaker 1: there have been cases of death. Um. So it's not impossible.
Speaker 1: It's not like you're you know, superman or superwoman if
Speaker 1: you get vaccinated that you're completely you know, uh, impervious.
Speaker 1: But it brings the risk down to very manageable level.
Speaker 1: You know. It's similar to other types of infections that
Speaker 1: can cause of serious illness, and so I think you
Speaker 1: just have to be be reasonably careful. Um and And
Speaker 1: I think the most important thing though, is everyone's risk
Speaker 1: is less when there's less coronavirus being transmitted. So if
Speaker 1: we all work together keep that number going down, we'll
Speaker 1: all feel more and more confident. Taking off the mask.
Speaker 1: Carol mentioned the surges that we're seeing in some parts
Speaker 1: of the country right now, Why why is that happening?
Speaker 1: Why is that still happening at this point? And look,
Speaker 1: I think we need to ask this in the context
Speaker 1: of understanding that the United States is in a very
Speaker 1: good place compared to rest of the world when it
Speaker 1: comes to administering vaccinations. We keep getting just devastating numbers
Speaker 1: from other parts of the world, particularly India, which we'll
Speaker 1: talk about just a little bit later. But here in
Speaker 1: the US, you know, we are hundreds of millions of
Speaker 1: shots have been administered, So why are we still seeing
Speaker 1: these pockets of infections? But because there's still a lot
Speaker 1: of people who haven't been vaccinated. I mean that that's
Speaker 1: a simple answer to that question. Um, you know, the
Speaker 1: chance of getting sick if your vaccinated is just so
Speaker 1: much lower. Um, it's you know, I think there was
Speaker 1: just a study with a prevention which is just you know,
Speaker 1: just a tremendous response to the vaccine. But if you
Speaker 1: look out in some of these days, just like Michigan recently,
Speaker 1: it's a race between the virus and the vaccine, and
Speaker 1: the virus is getting you know, a little boost from
Speaker 1: the variants which are more transmissible and more lethal, and
Speaker 1: the vaccine is you know, moving ahead, but starting to
Speaker 1: slow down a little in some places because um, you know,
Speaker 1: we're the people who are really excited to get vaccinated
Speaker 1: are all getting vaccinated, and now it's getting a little
Speaker 1: bit harder to find and reach people who still need
Speaker 1: to be vaccinated. So I think if you think about
Speaker 1: it as a raise between the virus and the vaccine,
Speaker 1: and the the virus is just getting fast or um,
Speaker 1: the vaccinations really have to keep up. Well that's what
Speaker 1: I feel like I still don't quite understand in terms
Speaker 1: of is it we've got to get to hurt immunity
Speaker 1: so that the variants can't take us to another wave.
Speaker 1: Because I know we talked about the so called Indian
Speaker 1: variant of the virus. China and Israel have identified cases
Speaker 1: and that new variant is thought to be fueling India
Speaker 1: is deadly or new wave of cases that has made
Speaker 1: it the world's second worst hit country. Um, help me
Speaker 1: understand kind of the mix between getting the vaccine getting
Speaker 1: ahead of the variants. And just got about a minute,
Speaker 1: then we'll come back and talk some more. Sure, Well,
Speaker 1: you know India, it's multiple variants, not to the when
Speaker 1: they're calling the India variants, there are multiple um that
Speaker 1: are causing the problem and um basically there are not
Speaker 1: a lot of people vaccinated in India. That's the challenge.
Speaker 1: The vaccines actually do protect pretty well to the extent
Speaker 1: they've been tested against variance, they do a pretty good job.
Speaker 1: So getting vaccinated is the best defense against the variants.
Speaker 1: We've got to get to that place though, where people
Speaker 1: who are hesitant, the ones who weren't the ones waiting
Speaker 1: in line, the ones who weren't you know, the ones
Speaker 1: who wanted to like jump in line to actually get vaccinated.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that I know, yeah, go ahead, please,
Speaker 1: you really have to, you know, listen to people answer
Speaker 1: their questions and make the vaccines acceptable to them in
Speaker 1: places that they're comfortable. And we're seeing you know, you
Speaker 1: do the first bunch through football stadiums, and then you
Speaker 1: do a whole other bunch through pharmacies, and then you've
Speaker 1: really got to go door to door to find people
Speaker 1: and offer them vaccine. And that's exactly what we're doing
Speaker 1: here in Baltimore. Actually, the Health Department is developed a
Speaker 1: right campaign. Well, let's get right back to it with
Speaker 1: Dr Josh Josh Sharfstein y Stein for Public Health Practice
Speaker 1: and Community Engagement, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health,
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from Baltimore. Dr Sharfstein, before
Speaker 1: we went to break, you were talking to us about
Speaker 1: what exactly you were doing in Baltimore and the City
Speaker 1: of Baltimore was doing in order to get those Americans
Speaker 1: vaccinated who haven't yet gotten the vaccine. How's it going
Speaker 1: and what exactly are you doing. So the Health Department
Speaker 1: has a pretty comprehensive strategy, and you know, they started
Speaker 1: with some of the biggervaccine sites which were you know,
Speaker 1: mobbed initially with people, and then they did a big
Speaker 1: outreach campaign in coordination with the various hospitals in the city,
Speaker 1: including Johns Hopkins, and I think they visited almost every
Speaker 1: major UH senior housing um development in the city and
Speaker 1: did vaccine clinics right there. And now they're shifting to
Speaker 1: even UH the idea of smaller mobile clinics so and
Speaker 1: pop up clinics. Of course, the pharmacies also have vaccine
Speaker 1: and they've seen a consistent rides in vaccinations and they've
Speaker 1: also paired this direct outreach work with a lot of
Speaker 1: education on the vaccine, a communications campaign, multiple opportunities. A
Speaker 1: health commissioner and the mayor have done a great job
Speaker 1: going around the city answering people's questions and so, you know,
Speaker 1: I volunteer at the city Health Department's vaccine site and
Speaker 1: it's just really inspiring to see so many people showing
Speaker 1: up getting protected, um, doing you know, what they need
Speaker 1: to do, and being really really happy about it. So
Speaker 1: is it a case of people they just access isn't
Speaker 1: there It's just difficult for them to get the vaccine,
Speaker 1: And so that by making it easier, people are more
Speaker 1: than willing to get it versus people who because I
Speaker 1: know I work with people, I know people who are like,
Speaker 1: I'm just not comfortable yet taking the vaccine. So what
Speaker 1: are you finding is kind of the bigger reasons for
Speaker 1: why people maybe haven't gotten the vaccine yet. So it
Speaker 1: really does depend. There are a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of different reasons. There are a lot some people were
Speaker 1: in the wait and see group. You know that they
Speaker 1: they're like, you know, I don't want to be the
Speaker 1: first one. Let's see how it goes for the first group. Well,
Speaker 1: those people can look around and see that you know,
Speaker 1: their friends and neighbors are actually doing pretty well when
Speaker 1: they's not vaccinated. And in fact, I've even seen people
Speaker 1: who say, you know, I'm here because my daughter got
Speaker 1: vaccinated and she's doing great, and she really wants me
Speaker 1: to be vaccinated. And you can tell that it might
Speaker 1: have been a little bit of hesbancy at one point,
Speaker 1: but you know the the facts that it's just so
Speaker 1: much better to be vaccinated. It's hard to deny, and people,
Speaker 1: I think are coming around, and so we're seeing the
Speaker 1: number of wait and see people go down over time. Well,
Speaker 1: question that Carol and I have have been asking each
Speaker 1: other for weeks now, if we want to ask you,
Speaker 1: Dr Sharfstein, is why people have different reactions to the vaccine.
Speaker 1: For example, I got my second fiser shot on Sunday.
Speaker 1: I took Monday off just in case I had a
Speaker 1: bad reaction. For twenty four hours, I felt fine, But
Speaker 1: from hours thirty six I was lethargic, I was a key,
Speaker 1: I felt sick, and then it went away like a
Speaker 1: light switch at seven pm Monday night. Why does this happen? Like?
Speaker 1: Why did I feel like that? What's going on in
Speaker 1: my and why did I when I took it basically
Speaker 1: by two doses of fiser. I felt pretty okay. I
Speaker 1: felt a little tired maybe, but no big deal. So UM,
Speaker 1: I couldn't answer specifically for each of you, but I
Speaker 1: can say that, you know, our bodies react differently to vaccines,
Speaker 1: and some people get more of a reaction than others.
Speaker 1: What's happening is the immuse of some basically getting trained
Speaker 1: to recognize a piece of the coronavirus. Of the vaccines
Speaker 1: don't carry the whole coronavirus, they just carry a piece,
Speaker 1: but it trains the immune system. When immune system gets trained,
Speaker 1: you have basically chemicals being released inside your body, not
Speaker 1: for chemicals that UM do the training and get you know,
Speaker 1: the cells ready in case the actual coronavirus comes in.
Speaker 1: They recognize that piece and again and the immune system
Speaker 1: kills the virus. And so you're that what you feel
Speaker 1: is a little bit of the chemicals you know that
Speaker 1: sometimes cause fever, sometimes cause fatigue. Um, the chemicals that
Speaker 1: are part of the immune system getting trained to kill
Speaker 1: the virus, all right, And so we all just feel
Speaker 1: it kind of differently, right bottom line, we feel it
Speaker 1: kind of differently. The second job is a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, more intense than the first, and people then
Speaker 1: bounce right back. And you know, I tell people that
Speaker 1: it's really if you get it, it's just the feeling
Speaker 1: of your immune system kicking in, and it's a good
Speaker 1: you know, it's assignment that commune system is um is
Speaker 1: doing good job. I think people who don't feel anything
Speaker 1: though the airman system is working well too. All right,
Speaker 1: that's good to know. That helps clarify it. Dr Josh
Speaker 1: Charstein weistein for Public Health Practice and Community Engagement at
Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, of course, supported
Speaker 1: by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio Well. The
Speaker 1: season finale of The Paycheck podcast is available now on Apples, Spotify,
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg dot Com. The episode tackles the issue of
Speaker 1: closing the racial wealth gap by acknowledging the painful history
Speaker 1: that first created the gap. Carry Wiggham is a professor
Speaker 1: at Binghamton University's Institute of Genocide and Mass Atrocity prevention
Speaker 1: and a contributor to this week's Paycheck podcast. There is
Speaker 1: still the reality that many white Americans have a difficult
Speaker 1: time understanding how slavery was directly connected to, for instance,
Speaker 1: mass incarceration and police brutality. Today, well, joining me now
Speaker 1: is Joel Weber, editor at Bloomberg business Week. He joins
Speaker 1: us on the remote from Brooklyn, and in the Interactive
Speaker 1: Broker studio here in New York is Jackie Simmons. She's
Speaker 1: senior executive editor of The America is also the co
Speaker 1: host of the Paycheck podcast, and she's joining here here
Speaker 1: from Bloomberg News. I think thank you to both of
Speaker 1: you for for joining me today, Joel, I want to
Speaker 1: start with you, uh eight episodes. This is this season finale,
Speaker 1: and this is a particularly powerful one because it wrestles
Speaker 1: with the legacy of a descendant of slave owners. Who
Speaker 1: is one of our colleagues. Yeah, and that's clear Sabbath,
Speaker 1: and who wrote a story today that coincides with this
Speaker 1: um most recent episode of the Paycheck and it is
Speaker 1: it just immediately grabs you by the caller when she
Speaker 1: started reading it, because it is a history that a
Speaker 1: lot of Americans share, where you know, deep in um,
Speaker 1: your family's history. There's um something that you you might
Speaker 1: not be proud of now, but it is the you know,
Speaker 1: a truth, and it was something that clear set out
Speaker 1: to wrestle with. I also just thought, you know, Jackie
Speaker 1: was so siminar in this podcast. I thought it was
Speaker 1: a really interesting contrast and book end to the very
Speaker 1: first episode, which which was about Jackie's story. So so, Jackie,
Speaker 1: we were kind of hoping you could kind of give
Speaker 1: us an idea about how these bookends came together and
Speaker 1: how you all approached um putting together such an amazing podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. So I would say that when
Speaker 1: we started to think about the next season of The Paycheck,
Speaker 1: you know, the first two seasons were about the gender
Speaker 1: pay gap, but it was round the time post Floyd's
Speaker 1: um killing when we started to sort of think, what
Speaker 1: can we do to really you know, bubble up some
Speaker 1: of the data, some of the history, some of the
Speaker 1: facts from the past that takes us to one and
Speaker 1: sort of capture a little bit of the momentum the
Speaker 1: frustration I think that's been building and so kind of ironically,
Speaker 1: a cousin of mine had been struggling with how to
Speaker 1: get some money from this land that basically has been
Speaker 1: in our family for for many generations. And I started
Speaker 1: researching it. I knew in the back of my mind
Speaker 1: we had this piece of property in East Texas, but
Speaker 1: I never really knew what came of it, And so
Speaker 1: I started going through records, talking to family members. Um.
Speaker 1: I made so many calls, I looked through so many
Speaker 1: you know, sites, and just really talked to officials to
Speaker 1: really try and piece together the picture of the story
Speaker 1: and what it really is. It sort of shows how
Speaker 1: the messiness um of how black families and that time
Speaker 1: acquired land and then also how over time because of taxes,
Speaker 1: sometimes because because of chicanery, we lost that land. And so,
Speaker 1: as you said, it's a great um clear story is
Speaker 1: such a wonderful book, and to a story of a
Speaker 1: black family gaining wealth and losing it, and then her
Speaker 1: story which is very personal equally personal that sort of
Speaker 1: tells it from a perspective of a descendant of a
Speaker 1: slave owner, which is I just think wonderfully kind of
Speaker 1: contrast and rich. There was this moment, Jackie that that
Speaker 1: hit me in in this most recent episode, the finale,
Speaker 1: when I was listening to it today, and it had
Speaker 1: to do with just thinking about my own place in
Speaker 1: this world. And it was it was something that you
Speaker 1: guys talked about the fact that even people who aren't
Speaker 1: descendants of slave owners, white people, UM, they might not
Speaker 1: necessarily think about their connection to slavery because they don't
Speaker 1: necessarily have that connection. But at the same time, they
Speaker 1: are part of a system that has benefited from slavery,
Speaker 1: even if they've only been in this country for one
Speaker 1: or two generations. That's correct. And I think that it
Speaker 1: was a question I asked Claire, and I think I
Speaker 1: thought her perspective on that was was very powerful because
Speaker 1: she was basically saying that it's not you don't get
Speaker 1: a free pass because you can't say that you had
Speaker 1: a direct connection to slavery. Is she's basically, you know,
Speaker 1: being very honest and quite um brave, I think, to
Speaker 1: come out and really share that story. Um, you can't
Speaker 1: hide behind you know, something that is structural and systemic
Speaker 1: in our economy, um and in our social system because
Speaker 1: you didn't have a direct descendant. So I think you know,
Speaker 1: everyone's accountable in some way. UM. And I think that
Speaker 1: the most powerful thing in her story is that you
Speaker 1: just have to find the truth about it, you have
Speaker 1: to kind of reckon with the truth. You have to
Speaker 1: understand the past, and you can't hide behind excuses for
Speaker 1: not sort of being willing to not only know it,
Speaker 1: but also embrace it before we can find ways to
Speaker 1: try and fix it. You know, you used a phrase
Speaker 1: there that um. I think in a way it sums
Speaker 1: up everything I've learned about UM through the Paycheck, which
Speaker 1: which is you know this idea that you know we
Speaker 1: make excuses and you know so much of where the
Speaker 1: podcast and the stories that are part of the podcast
Speaker 1: come from is just sort of a cold a cold
Speaker 1: a real, honest to god um full assessment of some
Speaker 1: inconvenient truths, I think. And so Jackie, I'm curious, you
Speaker 1: know your role in this season, how you think about
Speaker 1: it going forward? Like what did what did you learn
Speaker 1: while you were working on this particular season and how
Speaker 1: is that going to inform what's yet to come from
Speaker 1: from the Paycheck? Yeah, I mean I think the thing
Speaker 1: that stood out there's three things that stood out to
Speaker 1: me really in a powerful way. I think at this
Speaker 1: sheer scale of the damage done is almost so hard
Speaker 1: for people to grasp that it makes it easier to ignore,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. So for instance, you know, we
Speaker 1: did the math. You know, we calculated the cost of
Speaker 1: what was the value of a human body in in
Speaker 1: slave days and that number comes to forty two trillion dollars.
Speaker 1: And that is when you count for inflation and other things.
Speaker 1: You know, what was the cost of the damage done
Speaker 1: when you tear down Blackwall Street? You know, when you lynch,
Speaker 1: you know, when you murder. I mean, what is the
Speaker 1: cost of that? I mean Tulsa alone, Black Wallstree in
Speaker 1: Oklahoma that was two million dollars, so, you know, and
Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So I think you know,
Speaker 1: that was definitely a huge takeaway and sort of overwhelming
Speaker 1: in and of itself. The second one was really there
Speaker 1: the unsung heroes, UM that basically have the resilience, um,
Speaker 1: you know, black and white to keep this narrative going.
Speaker 1: So people like Kelly House. UM. I actually didn't know
Speaker 1: much about her before I started doing the research. She
Speaker 1: was a black woman who was one of the first
Speaker 1: people to talk about reparations and she was jailed for it. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, John Boyd is a Virginia farmer. I think
Speaker 1: an episode five, who you know testified before Congress about um,
Speaker 1: you know, how to get subsidies and payments back to
Speaker 1: black farmers. So you know, there was a number of
Speaker 1: unsung heroes in this narrative, but there are also a
Speaker 1: lot of interesting, interesting things happening in one. Well. It
Speaker 1: is an incredibly powerful series. Jackie, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us to tell us more about it. I
Speaker 1: encourage everybody to check it out. You can listen to
Speaker 1: the Paycheck podcast at Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.
Speaker 1: Jackie Simmons is Senior executive editor for The America's at
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. She's the co host of the Paycheck podcast.
Speaker 1: Joe Laber, editor at Bloomberg Business Week, on the remote
Speaker 1: from Brooklyn, Guys, thank you so much. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. My fellow Americas,
Speaker 1: trickled down, trickled down economics has never worked. It's time
Speaker 1: to grow the economy from the bottom in the middle out.
Speaker 1: That was of course President Biden in his joint session
Speaker 1: to Congress last night. Joining us now for his thoughts
Speaker 1: is Chris Leu, former Deputy Secretary of Labor under President Obama.
Speaker 1: He joins us on the phone from Charlottesville, Virginia. We
Speaker 1: should note that Chris has just been nominated by President
Speaker 1: Biden to be the U S Ambassador to the United
Speaker 1: Nations for Management and Reform. Chris, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: joining us. UM, absolutely good to be on. Congratulations on
Speaker 1: the nomination too. Um. What did you make of the
Speaker 1: President's joint session? He certainly at the beginning really leaned
Speaker 1: into what he has accomplished over his first one days,
Speaker 1: specifically with regard to COVID, but then really spent the
Speaker 1: next period of time focusing on what he plans to
Speaker 1: do and how he plans to do it. Yeah, for him. First,
Speaker 1: let's just take note of the surroundings and the optics
Speaker 1: around the speech. And it was certainly one of the
Speaker 1: quieter States of the Union or joint addresses that we
Speaker 1: have seen in a long, long time standing. There in
Speaker 1: not even a half filled room. Um, it was subdued,
Speaker 1: and I think it was appropriate for the moment, because
Speaker 1: you know, we've made tremendous gains in terms of COVID
Speaker 1: and the economy. But um, there's still far too many
Speaker 1: people out of work. There's still far too many people
Speaker 1: getting sick and dying, and so ironically, I think the
Speaker 1: setting in the tone was appropriate for the moment. And
Speaker 1: you're right, I mean the speech is really, I think,
Speaker 1: really two to three different parts. One was talking about COVID,
Speaker 1: the two d and twenty million vaccines, the hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty million checks that have gone out the door, but
Speaker 1: really sort of stressing to people, you know what, the
Speaker 1: fight is not over. I mean, we've gotten fifty some
Speaker 1: percent of the American adults immunized, but we still have
Speaker 1: a lot of people, far too many people who haven't
Speaker 1: gotten vaccinated, and that's a problem, and that could be
Speaker 1: a bump in the road, uh if if we can't
Speaker 1: get over that. And then obviously the bulk of the
Speaker 1: speech was focused on um, you know, selling infrastructure and
Speaker 1: talking about what infrastructure means. And then finally, I think
Speaker 1: the final pivot was to George Floyd racial justice unity.
Speaker 1: So it's what I expected, even if the optics theatrics
Speaker 1: of it were different from previous joint addresses. Well, I
Speaker 1: do you have a question for you on optics, because
Speaker 1: there's this photo that that's absolutely making the rounds when
Speaker 1: it happened. An image from last night continue to make
Speaker 1: the rounds on social media today, and it's that one
Speaker 1: of the president fist bumping Representative Liz Cheney of Wyoming.
Speaker 1: A Republican of course. Uh, but to me, Liz Cheney
Speaker 1: is is is the old school Republican Party, the establishment
Speaker 1: Republican Party, and in fact, to the extent that even
Speaker 1: members of her own party, who someone characterizes more extreme,
Speaker 1: have been trying to push for her ouster from committees
Speaker 1: and trying to campaign against her already. What did you
Speaker 1: make of that moment? Is that is that there is
Speaker 1: that Senator Biden reaching across the aisle. Well, I do
Speaker 1: think it's Senator Biden. I think I think, um, the
Speaker 1: President wants to work with anybody, and he is remarkably
Speaker 1: generous in his views of uh, the opposing party, who
Speaker 1: who he does in view as the enemy. He feels
Speaker 1: as people who UM are are patriotic Americans who simply
Speaker 1: disagree on issues. But he's going to try to find
Speaker 1: that common agreement. So I was struck by that moment
Speaker 1: as well. I would also caution about reading too much
Speaker 1: into this. Uh, you know, I staff President Obama for
Speaker 1: different states of the Union. He walks down that aisle,
Speaker 1: and even in a packed a normal room, when it's packed,
Speaker 1: they're Democrats and Republicans on both sides, and it's just
Speaker 1: a matter of courtesy, frankly to shake the hand of
Speaker 1: or fist bump the hand of the commander in chief.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what you know, Liz Cheney, who
Speaker 1: whose own father had been vice president, I think understood
Speaker 1: this is you know, in moments like this, this transcends
Speaker 1: partisan politics. And if fist bump is certainly one thing,
Speaker 1: but getting congressional Republicans on board with plans that number
Speaker 1: in the trillions of dollars is completely different. As Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week has written about, now comes the hard part,
Speaker 1: right when it comes to to Biden's plans and what
Speaker 1: he wants to do, especially before the mid terms. How
Speaker 1: does Biden sell this to Republicans. I think it's clear
Speaker 1: that he's selling it to the American people. And indeed,
Speaker 1: the you know, public opinion polling indicates that that parts
Speaker 1: of these plans are are very popular with Democrats and
Speaker 1: Republicans als. But typically when it comes to infrastructure, but
Speaker 1: getting Republicans on board to spend this amount of money
Speaker 1: is going to be a tough, tough, tough slog. How
Speaker 1: does he do it? Yeah, and not only not only
Speaker 1: to get behind it, but how to pay for it
Speaker 1: as well. But I think that point that you made
Speaker 1: is correct. If you look at the polling on infrastructure,
Speaker 1: it pulls incredibly well, especially when you tell people you're
Speaker 1: going to pay for it by raising corporate taxes in
Speaker 1: much the same way that the economic relief package from
Speaker 1: last month pulled very well. And so I think the
Speaker 1: White House is going to make best efforts to find
Speaker 1: bipartisan agreement and Congress, but they know full well that
Speaker 1: if they can't do that, the American people are behind them.
Speaker 1: But getting to, you know, the the guts of this,
Speaker 1: there is a bucket of things that fall into what
Speaker 1: we would call traditional infrastructure where there is bipartisan agreement,
Speaker 1: and that at this point it's really a strategic decision
Speaker 1: about whether you pull those parts out, pass them on
Speaker 1: a bipartisan basis, and then do the or once through
Speaker 1: the budget reconciliation process. I do think it is the
Speaker 1: preference of the White House and the President to try
Speaker 1: to do the whole thing at one time, and it's
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why you heard him talking last
Speaker 1: night about what infrastructure means. It's not just roads and bridges,
Speaker 1: it's broadband, it's the electric grid that we saw fail
Speaker 1: in Texas, it's safe drinking water, and then broadly, it's
Speaker 1: you know, this concept of human infrastructure. UM, that that
Speaker 1: we need to be mindful about as well. The challenge
Speaker 1: I see, Chris is is that it's hard for I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people to envision what this looks
Speaker 1: like years down the line. And that's been really tough
Speaker 1: for politicians who have had trouble getting things done in
Speaker 1: the long term. Um, how does Biden help make that
Speaker 1: vision for Americans and for Republicans as well. We have
Speaker 1: about thirty seconds left with you now, but I know
Speaker 1: you're going to join us again on the other side
Speaker 1: of the break. It is fundamentally this concept to build
Speaker 1: back better, the idea that we can't just go back
Speaker 1: to the economy me before the pandemic. We really need
Speaker 1: to deal with some of these structural inequities that we've had,
Speaker 1: both in terms of what it means for everyday Americans,
Speaker 1: but frankly, the under investments in things like Rhodes bridges, technology, Uh,
Speaker 1: and we need to do that to be more competitive. Well,
Speaker 1: let's get right back to Chris Leu, former Deputy Secretary
Speaker 1: of Labor under President Obama. He joins us on the
Speaker 1: phone from Charlottesville, Virginia, and Chris has just been nominated
Speaker 1: by President Biden to be the U S Ambassador to
Speaker 1: the United Nations for Management and Reform. Chris, UM, I
Speaker 1: want to get back to last night and specifically tying
Speaker 1: it together with what we heard from FED Chair Jerome
Speaker 1: Powell yesterday. If there's really one thing that ties those
Speaker 1: the words that we heard from both of them together,
Speaker 1: it's jobs and getting those jobs back for those more
Speaker 1: than eight million Americans who are still on the sidelines.
Speaker 1: That's the metric that the President is using in the
Speaker 1: recovery and the metric that the FED is using in
Speaker 1: the recovery. How does the US get there? Well, it's
Speaker 1: it's not going to be easy, and I think it's
Speaker 1: right to set some contexts. We last month created nine
Speaker 1: d and sixteen thousands, or recovered or you know, not
Speaker 1: necessarily created, right, Well, and I think that's an important distinction.
Speaker 1: We've recovered nine hundred and sixteen thousand jobs. Um, And
Speaker 1: but we're still eight point four million short of where
Speaker 1: we were before the pandemic. And it's important to understand
Speaker 1: that during this period of time, over the past year,
Speaker 1: a lot of the longer term trends that we have seen,
Speaker 1: whether it is globalization, whether it is automation, whether it's
Speaker 1: the rise of the gig economy, a lot of these
Speaker 1: things have accelerated along the way. And so we can't
Speaker 1: and again just we can't go back just to the
Speaker 1: economy of the pre pandemic, because that's already left too
Speaker 1: many people behind. So we need to understand that we
Speaker 1: need to both create the jobs. And it's we started
Speaker 1: talking about before the break. Roads and bridges are the
Speaker 1: easiest things to do, and this is something that's not
Speaker 1: just good for workers and manufacturers, but frankly we need it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you drive around this country and as you said,
Speaker 1: you see it. You walk into an airport, you ride
Speaker 1: on amtrack, and you see the state of what we
Speaker 1: have in this country. So those are great paying jobs
Speaker 1: that actually can make us competitive and health the economy run.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot more that needs to be done
Speaker 1: in terms of training workers for the jobs of the century.
Speaker 1: And this is the work that I did at the
Speaker 1: Department of Labor and getting them as skills they need.
Speaker 1: And that's part of why in the American Families Plan
Speaker 1: that the President talked about yesterday, you know, he adds
Speaker 1: on two years of universal pre K and then he
Speaker 1: adds on free community colleges because he understands that in
Speaker 1: this economy, simply having a high school education isn't going
Speaker 1: to be enough to train you for those jobs. Um,
Speaker 1: so it's training people. Then it's actually figuring out how
Speaker 1: do we bring these jobs back to the United States
Speaker 1: and how do we come up with new industries, which
Speaker 1: is why there's so much investment in R and D
Speaker 1: in the Infrastructure Plan. How do you think the jobs
Speaker 1: market changes, or at least jobs change on the other
Speaker 1: side of this pandemic there, there's certainly a tale of
Speaker 1: two different types of companies, two different economies. The K
Speaker 1: shape recovery, right, we talked about it all the time.
Speaker 1: Company like Amazon reporting earnings after the bell today, added
Speaker 1: hundreds of a hundred thousand workers in the last year.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's massive. At the same time, you have
Speaker 1: many mom and pop shops around the United States that
Speaker 1: have been struggling to get by or restaurants that have closed.
Speaker 1: So so what does the other side of this look like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's one of the unfortunate aspects of the pandemic is
Speaker 1: that while so many brick and mortar retail shops were
Speaker 1: closed during the lockdown, UM cities and states allowed you know, Target,
Speaker 1: Walmart and other big box retailers to stay open. And
Speaker 1: that's just continue to heighten this competitive advantage that they have.
Speaker 1: Recognize also that at a company like Amazon, while they
Speaker 1: have created a lot of those jobs, a lot of
Speaker 1: the more seasonal jobs, and frankly, a lot of the
Speaker 1: people that are out there, um delivering packages to your
Speaker 1: door are our independent contractors who aren't getting benefits. And
Speaker 1: so there are jobs being created, but a lot of
Speaker 1: these jobs aren't providing a stable level of wages or
Speaker 1: benefits that allow people, um really to live you know,
Speaker 1: um middle class lives and so and then obviously the
Speaker 1: pandemic is as I said, it's accelerated a lot of
Speaker 1: these issues. You know, increasingly, now you walk into a
Speaker 1: fast food restaurant, whether it's to cut costs or whether
Speaker 1: it was to prevent infections, they're now moving to you know,
Speaker 1: you order on a smartphone or you or you ordered
Speaker 1: on on a screen and you don't talk to somebody. Um,
Speaker 1: that's a job that's now disappeared as well. And so
Speaker 1: um yeah, no, I mean the structural changes that we've
Speaker 1: seen for decades really have accelerated over the last year. Well,
Speaker 1: something kind of strange is happening right now. There's a
Speaker 1: story in this week's edition of Bloomberg Business Week that
Speaker 1: talks about Uber and Lyft and ride hailing services and
Speaker 1: the way that customers are coming back faster than drivers
Speaker 1: want to come back. And as a result, you've bur
Speaker 1: in lift are are paying larger sums to drivers to
Speaker 1: entice them to get back on the roads and start
Speaker 1: driving again. At the same time, John Taffer from Bar Rescue,
Speaker 1: the Show by Rescue I joined us on Quick Take
Speaker 1: earlier today and joined Carol earlier this week on on
Speaker 1: this program on Bloomberg Radio and talked about how he's
Speaker 1: having trouble getting employees and and his his His argument
Speaker 1: is that unemployment insurance, which doesn't expire until later this year,
Speaker 1: is keeping people on the sidelines. What do you make
Speaker 1: of what's going on? Yeah, look, I I personally think
Speaker 1: this argument about unemployment insurance de turring work is probably
Speaker 1: overdone because what we do know is that there are
Speaker 1: far too many states in the country where it's increasingly difficult.
Speaker 1: It's always been difficult to apply for unemployment insurance. Even
Speaker 1: if you get something, it's it's certainly not enough. Even
Speaker 1: with the enhanced fatal benefits, it's not enough to work.
Speaker 1: I do think the first aspect of this is to
Speaker 1: ensure that we get COVID under control and basically provide
Speaker 1: that level of insurance to workers so that they feel
Speaker 1: confident they can go to whatever work and not know
Speaker 1: they're going to be sick. So that's I think, um
Speaker 1: number one. But I do think broadly, um, we are
Speaker 1: starting to again to see this mismatch of people having jobs,
Speaker 1: uh needing to fill jobs and having people able to
Speaker 1: get those jobs. Chris Leu, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: joining us. It is always great to have you on
Speaker 1: the show. That's Chris Leu, former Deputy Secretary of Labor
Speaker 1: under President Obama, joining us on the phone from Charlottesville.
Speaker 1: Tim Stanevik Carol Masser live from the Bloomberg Interactive Broker
Speaker 1: Studios on Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg. I'm roam a
Speaker 1: journal now, but you let me drive? Oh no, no, no no, no, honey, please,
Speaker 1: I'll do the riding, revel. Let me. I want to dry,
Speaker 1: Just drive, baby questions trying, this is the drive to
Speaker 1: the Globe community. Thanks, we'll try us on bloom Bird Radio.
Speaker 1: All right, just about ten minutes left, ten and a
Speaker 1: half minutes left to today's trade. You're just saying that
Speaker 1: because you and i've been running since you since I
Speaker 1: don't know what time. I know me from about five
Speaker 1: thirty this morning, but you much earlier, same time. All right,
Speaker 1: let's find out what Brad McMillan what time his day started,
Speaker 1: his chief investment officer and managing principle at Commonwealth Financial Network.
Speaker 1: They've got roughly two hundred thirty two point five billion
Speaker 1: dollars in assets under management. Brad back with us and
Speaker 1: on the phone from Waltham, Massachusetts. Brad, it is good
Speaker 1: to have you're here with us. How early did your
Speaker 1: day start? I usually get up about five thirty, the
Speaker 1: same as you guys. Maybe maybe it's a financial thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe it's a fin right. Just heard somewhere the early
Speaker 1: bird catches the worm. I've heard that. So I'm still
Speaker 1: trying to find the worm. Early bird is a little
Speaker 1: tired today. Um So, Brad McMillan. The markets all over
Speaker 1: the place, you know, lots of earnings this week, we
Speaker 1: had the FED meeting. What's what's kind of driving your
Speaker 1: thinking and your team's thinking right now when it comes
Speaker 1: to investing big picture, everything is awesome and really office.
Speaker 1: So I don't say that with any real joy here, Carol.
Speaker 1: You know, when you look at what's going on, the
Speaker 1: economy is doing very well and looking to accelerate. We're
Speaker 1: getting to normal. The FED is very explicitly saying we're
Speaker 1: we're all in. We're gonna keep pushing behind this. And
Speaker 1: companies keep making more money than anybody would ever have thought.
Speaker 1: So there's not a lot to get upset about. And
Speaker 1: I think markets are just reflecting that, unless, of course,
Speaker 1: you make under fifteen an hour. I'm just going to
Speaker 1: put that out there, Brett fair point. And from a
Speaker 1: market point of view, everything's great. If you're one of
Speaker 1: the many people still out of work, especially in the
Speaker 1: lower income tranches, it's a totally different stories. That's That's
Speaker 1: exactly what I was gonna say. If there's one takeaway
Speaker 1: yesterday from the themes that tie together the President's address
Speaker 1: last night and FED Chair Powell's comments yesterday midday. It's
Speaker 1: really those eight point four million unemployed Americans who are
Speaker 1: still out as a result of the pandemic. So, so
Speaker 1: help us make sense of of what we're seeing from
Speaker 1: these companies and their outlooks. Well at the same time,
Speaker 1: hearing from companies like Lift and Uber that it's tough
Speaker 1: to get drivers to actually come back onto the roads
Speaker 1: as quickly as customers want to. Well, I think you
Speaker 1: have to remember two things. First of all, the pandemic
Speaker 1: is not over yet, and a lot of the jobs
Speaker 1: that are still out there going begging our jobs that
Speaker 1: involve dealing with the public. So I think there's still
Speaker 1: a very real reluctance on a lot of workers part
Speaker 1: to put themselves in that situation if they don't have to,
Speaker 1: and because of the federal stimulus programs, they don't have
Speaker 1: to yet. So two things are going to happen. First
Speaker 1: of all, the stimulus programs are going to start to expire,
Speaker 1: and second of all, the viral situation is going to
Speaker 1: continue to get better. So I think you're going to
Speaker 1: see that it out over time. People are going to
Speaker 1: move back to work in a very natural way. But
Speaker 1: we're not there yet. So how are you playing the
Speaker 1: market Because there's certainly some spaces, including some of these
Speaker 1: big tech names. It's a little heady, and I am
Speaker 1: curious when you look to commit new cash, where do
Speaker 1: you want to go? I mean, everybody kind of is
Speaker 1: like value value value. It keeps coming back and then
Speaker 1: the growth just kind of overtakes it. Where would you
Speaker 1: be committing new money. I don't think it's about value
Speaker 1: versus growth. Um. I think one of the big things
Speaker 1: that's hit growth is rates. We're going to go up
Speaker 1: and then well maybe not, so you know, that's what's
Speaker 1: playing out. But it's about what companies are a physician
Speaker 1: to do relatively better, you know. And I think if
Speaker 1: you look at the housing industry, that's just going from
Speaker 1: strength to strength and that's not going away anytime soon,
Speaker 1: given the demographic push behind it and the supply and
Speaker 1: demand situation. You look at financials, for example, they're going
Speaker 1: to continue to do much better as the economy reopens.
Speaker 1: So there's nothing to do with growth in value. It's
Speaker 1: what companies can actually start to outperform. I'm wondering when
Speaker 1: when it comes to housing, because that was another thing
Speaker 1: that the fedchhair was asked about yesterday. What ends up
Speaker 1: happening to the housing market because prices can't just keep
Speaker 1: going up. And look, I'm speaking from the experience of
Speaker 1: people who live in the Northeast and New England and
Speaker 1: Tri state area in California. Uh, it's somewhat of a
Speaker 1: different story around the country, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: it is a really hot market right now. Well, when
Speaker 1: you look at there's the big story in housing is
Speaker 1: We've talked about mortgage rates. Everybody knows that, but take
Speaker 1: a look at the demand side. You have the largest
Speaker 1: generation in history, the millennials, and they're just getting to
Speaker 1: the point where they got to go buy a house.
Speaker 1: You know, not only do they want to because of
Speaker 1: the pandemic, but they're hitting forty they're hurting their peak
Speaker 1: earning and spending years. They get kids now they need
Speaker 1: to go buy a house. And we've been under investing
Speaker 1: in housing for decade now. Ever since the bust. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I find it. I find it interesting that it was
Speaker 1: for such a long time, coming off of the housing crisis.
Speaker 1: Bread that we were talking about over supply, right and
Speaker 1: they were private equity companies that you know moved into it,
Speaker 1: Blackstone among others, you know, where it became a really
Speaker 1: smart investment. And then all of a sudden, we just
Speaker 1: don't have enough housing. And it's safe to say homebuilders,
Speaker 1: you know, a little gun shy, and I think the
Speaker 1: whole housing market right that they're not going to build
Speaker 1: until they make sure that the demand sticks around it's consistent.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Carol. And it's not just the housing industry,
Speaker 1: it's the supply chain. When you look at lumber prices,
Speaker 1: you know, why is that there's still a lot of
Speaker 1: trees out there, well, a lot of sawmills, A lot
Speaker 1: of lumber companies backed off because they weren't seeing the
Speaker 1: demand there and that's why we had the lumber prices spiking.
Speaker 1: You know, I was driving around up in New England, Maine,
Speaker 1: a lot of lumber you know, companies and mills and
Speaker 1: the life. It is beautiful. But they were quiet, like
Speaker 1: and I know this weekend and stuff, but I didn't
Speaker 1: feel like if they were looking to meet incredible demand, right,
Speaker 1: they might have kicked and extra shifts of the weekend.
Speaker 1: And I did see that. Look the story when I
Speaker 1: went to college years decades ago at this point, I
Speaker 1: went to college in Maine and the story was those
Speaker 1: mills no longer even operated, which is interestingly do you
Speaker 1: wonder where it goes? Yeah? All right, So where do
Speaker 1: we go from here? Brad? How do you see it? Do?
Speaker 1: Is the rest of the year kind of baked in
Speaker 1: a little bit or safe to say? We know the
Speaker 1: Fed kind of has our back here. They're going to
Speaker 1: be patient, They're gonna let inflation run hot hot, and
Speaker 1: so for folks seeking yield, you know we're going to
Speaker 1: see more risk being taken on or I don't know,
Speaker 1: how do you see? You said everything is awesome at
Speaker 1: the beginning, and that's right. I mean what's interesting to
Speaker 1: me is when you look at the market and the
Speaker 1: run up we've had, people were saying, wow, this is crazy,
Speaker 1: but it's not if you go when you look at
Speaker 1: it on a forward price earnings basis, you know, based
Speaker 1: when earnings estimates go up, so is the price, and
Speaker 1: it stated about twenty two times, so as we can
Speaker 1: see earnings earnings expectations continue to grow, I still think
Speaker 1: there's still some more upside there, and potentially more than
Speaker 1: people think. So what is what is the specific opportunity,
Speaker 1: especially when we are at a point where companies are
Speaker 1: we're at the tail end of earning season or we're
Speaker 1: getting to the tail end of earning season. This is
Speaker 1: the busiest week for um UM. What are you hearing
Speaker 1: as the takeaways, Brad from from what we've heard from executives,
Speaker 1: because we're still not getting a ton when it comes
Speaker 1: to company outlook. I mean, look what happened with with
Speaker 1: with Tesla for example. I think what's going on here
Speaker 1: is it's the dog that's not barking. I mean, I
Speaker 1: agree with you. Invest executives are still cautious. They don't
Speaker 1: want to go out there. But I'm hearing a lot
Speaker 1: less of the negative. You know, the world is coming
Speaker 1: to an end. They're not ready to be positive yet.
Speaker 1: There's still too cautious for that. They're still gunshy, but
Speaker 1: they're no longer making sure that they're pointing out everything
Speaker 1: that can go wrong. It's not a change in tone,
Speaker 1: but it's the start of a change in tone. The
Speaker 1: start of a change in tone. When is that that?
Speaker 1: We only have about thirty seconds left. But what are
Speaker 1: you watching for data points to see when that tone shifts?
Speaker 1: I think it shifts in the next quarter too, because
Speaker 1: right now companies are running out of reasons to be unhappy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it'll be interesting too in the comparisons
Speaker 1: aren't so easy and whether or not then you know,
Speaker 1: investors maybe look at some of the names a little
Speaker 1: bit differently, and I guess we'll just have to wait
Speaker 1: and see on that. Brad McMillan, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Everything is awesome when you join US chief Investment Officer
Speaker 1: truly at Commonwealth Financial Network on the phone from Waltham, Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: roughly two two and a half billion in UH assets
Speaker 1: under management, and you know, interesting to hear what he
Speaker 1: had to say. I mean a daylight today where I
Speaker 1: feel like direction is all over the place, and yet
Speaker 1: you know we're we're near our highs when it comes
Speaker 1: to the SMP and now with just what a few
Speaker 1: minutes to go, we are instilled. Seems like investors shrugging
Speaker 1: off the GDP data and economic data that we got
Speaker 1: earlier today really just want to see earnings. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to
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