1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: clus technology, politics, economics, all parnising the power of Business 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: You can also listen to our radio show at two 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, lot's to talk about. 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Let's get into it with Dr Joshua Sharfstein. Weistein for 12 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 1: public health practice and community engagement that JOHNS. Hopkins Bloomberg 13 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: School of Public Health. He joins us on the phone 14 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: from Baltimore. The Bloomberg School of Public Health is supported 15 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP, and Bloomberg Philanthropiest. 16 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: Dr Sharfstein, thanks so much for joining us. I want 17 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: to start right in with the New York City news 18 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: we heard today from Mayor build a Blasio July first 19 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 1: full opening is that a realistic day or is it 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: too too much too soon? Well, it depends what you 21 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: mean by full opening. Obviously, Um, things are looking better 22 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: and that means that we can do more more safely. Um. 23 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: But I'm sure he doesn't mean going all the way 24 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: back to twenty nineteen and pretending like the pandemic didn't happen. Um. 25 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: I think it's going to be important, particularly for people 26 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: who are not vaccinated, to be careful and to you know, 27 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: wear masks when they're close to other people. And I 28 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: think there's still going to be some prudent precautions necessary. 29 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: What's your guidance to all of us who may have 30 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: been already vaccinated and so as we go about our world. 31 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: I know I still feel comfortable wearing a mask just 32 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,919 Speaker 1: about everywhere out in public and certainly at our office. 33 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: What's your guidance to everyone? Well, I think we're starting 34 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: to see certainly the recommendations for outside change. People who 35 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: are vaccinating, you can feel pretty comfortable outside unless they're 36 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: you know, completely crowded together with a lot of people 37 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: breathing on them, um, in like a crowd. But um, 38 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: and then you know, indoors, I think people will start 39 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: to get more confident, particularly where they know that other 40 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: people are vaccinated around them. UM. And I think that 41 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: the real difference will be when the rates of transmission 42 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: and the cases in the community go way down, because 43 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, even if your vaccine, you can still get sick. 44 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 1: And we've seen cases like that and a very few 45 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: small number of people, but that you know, it's possible 46 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: to get quite sick. So I think that people will 47 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: you still get if you're vaccinated, well, um, you know, 48 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: particularly for older adults, um, they can get hospitalized and 49 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: there have been cases of death. Um. So it's not impossible. 50 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: It's not like you're you know, superman or superwoman if 51 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 1: you get vaccinated that you're completely you know, uh, impervious. 52 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: But it brings the risk down to very manageable level. 53 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: You know. It's similar to other types of infections that 54 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: can cause of serious illness, and so I think you 55 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: just have to be be reasonably careful. Um and And 56 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: I think the most important thing though, is everyone's risk 57 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: is less when there's less coronavirus being transmitted. So if 58 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: we all work together keep that number going down, we'll 59 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: all feel more and more confident. Taking off the mask. 60 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: Carol mentioned the surges that we're seeing in some parts 61 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: of the country right now, Why why is that happening? 62 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: Why is that still happening at this point? And look, 63 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: I think we need to ask this in the context 64 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: of understanding that the United States is in a very 65 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: good place compared to rest of the world when it 66 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: comes to administering vaccinations. We keep getting just devastating numbers 67 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: from other parts of the world, particularly India, which we'll 68 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: talk about just a little bit later. But here in 69 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: the US, you know, we are hundreds of millions of 70 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: shots have been administered, So why are we still seeing 71 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: these pockets of infections? But because there's still a lot 72 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: of people who haven't been vaccinated. I mean that that's 73 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: a simple answer to that question. Um, you know, the 74 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: chance of getting sick if your vaccinated is just so 75 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: much lower. Um, it's you know, I think there was 76 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: just a study with a prevention which is just you know, 77 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: just a tremendous response to the vaccine. But if you 78 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: look out in some of these days, just like Michigan recently, 79 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: it's a race between the virus and the vaccine, and 80 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: the virus is getting you know, a little boost from 81 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: the variants which are more transmissible and more lethal, and 82 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: the vaccine is you know, moving ahead, but starting to 83 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: slow down a little in some places because um, you know, 84 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: we're the people who are really excited to get vaccinated 85 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: are all getting vaccinated, and now it's getting a little 86 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: bit harder to find and reach people who still need 87 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: to be vaccinated. So I think if you think about 88 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: it as a raise between the virus and the vaccine, 89 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: and the the virus is just getting fast or um, 90 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: the vaccinations really have to keep up. Well that's what 91 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: I feel like I still don't quite understand in terms 92 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: of is it we've got to get to hurt immunity 93 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 1: so that the variants can't take us to another wave. 94 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: Because I know we talked about the so called Indian 95 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: variant of the virus. China and Israel have identified cases 96 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: and that new variant is thought to be fueling India 97 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: is deadly or new wave of cases that has made 98 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: it the world's second worst hit country. Um, help me 99 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: understand kind of the mix between getting the vaccine getting 100 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: ahead of the variants. And just got about a minute, 101 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: then we'll come back and talk some more. Sure, Well, 102 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: you know India, it's multiple variants, not to the when 103 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: they're calling the India variants, there are multiple um that 104 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: are causing the problem and um basically there are not 105 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people vaccinated in India. That's the challenge. 106 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: The vaccines actually do protect pretty well to the extent 107 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: they've been tested against variance, they do a pretty good job. 108 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: So getting vaccinated is the best defense against the variants. 109 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,119 Speaker 1: We've got to get to that place though, where people 110 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: who are hesitant, the ones who weren't the ones waiting 111 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: in line, the ones who weren't you know, the ones 112 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: who wanted to like jump in line to actually get vaccinated. 113 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that I know, yeah, go ahead, please, 114 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: you really have to, you know, listen to people answer 115 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: their questions and make the vaccines acceptable to them in 116 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: places that they're comfortable. And we're seeing you know, you 117 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: do the first bunch through football stadiums, and then you 118 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: do a whole other bunch through pharmacies, and then you've 119 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: really got to go door to door to find people 120 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: and offer them vaccine. And that's exactly what we're doing 121 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: here in Baltimore. Actually, the Health Department is developed a 122 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: right campaign. Well, let's get right back to it with 123 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: Dr Josh Josh Sharfstein y Stein for Public Health Practice 124 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: and Community Engagement, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 125 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from Baltimore. Dr Sharfstein, before 126 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,119 Speaker 1: we went to break, you were talking to us about 127 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: what exactly you were doing in Baltimore and the City 128 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: of Baltimore was doing in order to get those Americans 129 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: vaccinated who haven't yet gotten the vaccine. How's it going 130 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: and what exactly are you doing. So the Health Department 131 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: has a pretty comprehensive strategy, and you know, they started 132 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: with some of the biggervaccine sites which were you know, 133 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: mobbed initially with people, and then they did a big 134 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: outreach campaign in coordination with the various hospitals in the city, 135 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: including Johns Hopkins, and I think they visited almost every 136 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: major UH senior housing um development in the city and 137 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: did vaccine clinics right there. And now they're shifting to 138 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: even UH the idea of smaller mobile clinics so and 139 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: pop up clinics. Of course, the pharmacies also have vaccine 140 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: and they've seen a consistent rides in vaccinations and they've 141 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: also paired this direct outreach work with a lot of 142 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: education on the vaccine, a communications campaign, multiple opportunities. A 143 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: health commissioner and the mayor have done a great job 144 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: going around the city answering people's questions and so, you know, 145 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: I volunteer at the city Health Department's vaccine site and 146 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: it's just really inspiring to see so many people showing 147 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: up getting protected, um, doing you know, what they need 148 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: to do, and being really really happy about it. So 149 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 1: is it a case of people they just access isn't 150 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: there It's just difficult for them to get the vaccine, 151 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: And so that by making it easier, people are more 152 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: than willing to get it versus people who because I 153 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: know I work with people, I know people who are like, 154 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: I'm just not comfortable yet taking the vaccine. So what 155 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: are you finding is kind of the bigger reasons for 156 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: why people maybe haven't gotten the vaccine yet. So it 157 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: really does depend. There are a lot of a lot 158 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: of different reasons. There are a lot some people were 159 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: in the wait and see group. You know that they 160 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: they're like, you know, I don't want to be the 161 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: first one. Let's see how it goes for the first group. Well, 162 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: those people can look around and see that you know, 163 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: their friends and neighbors are actually doing pretty well when 164 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: they's not vaccinated. And in fact, I've even seen people 165 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: who say, you know, I'm here because my daughter got 166 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: vaccinated and she's doing great, and she really wants me 167 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: to be vaccinated. And you can tell that it might 168 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: have been a little bit of hesbancy at one point, 169 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: but you know the the facts that it's just so 170 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: much better to be vaccinated. It's hard to deny, and people, 171 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: I think are coming around, and so we're seeing the 172 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: number of wait and see people go down over time. Well, 173 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: question that Carol and I have have been asking each 174 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: other for weeks now, if we want to ask you, 175 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: Dr Sharfstein, is why people have different reactions to the vaccine. 176 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: For example, I got my second fiser shot on Sunday. 177 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: I took Monday off just in case I had a 178 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: bad reaction. For twenty four hours, I felt fine, But 179 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: from hours thirty six I was lethargic, I was a key, 180 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: I felt sick, and then it went away like a 181 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: light switch at seven pm Monday night. Why does this happen? Like? 182 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: Why did I feel like that? What's going on in 183 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: my and why did I when I took it basically 184 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: by two doses of fiser. I felt pretty okay. I 185 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: felt a little tired maybe, but no big deal. So UM, 186 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: I couldn't answer specifically for each of you, but I 187 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,599 Speaker 1: can say that, you know, our bodies react differently to vaccines, 188 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: and some people get more of a reaction than others. 189 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: What's happening is the immuse of some basically getting trained 190 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: to recognize a piece of the coronavirus. Of the vaccines 191 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: don't carry the whole coronavirus, they just carry a piece, 192 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: but it trains the immune system. When immune system gets trained, 193 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: you have basically chemicals being released inside your body, not 194 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: for chemicals that UM do the training and get you know, 195 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: the cells ready in case the actual coronavirus comes in. 196 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: They recognize that piece and again and the immune system 197 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: kills the virus. And so you're that what you feel 198 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: is a little bit of the chemicals you know that 199 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: sometimes cause fever, sometimes cause fatigue. Um, the chemicals that 200 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: are part of the immune system getting trained to kill 201 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: the virus, all right, And so we all just feel 202 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: it kind of differently, right bottom line, we feel it 203 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: kind of differently. The second job is a little bit, 204 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: you know, more intense than the first, and people then 205 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: bounce right back. And you know, I tell people that 206 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: it's really if you get it, it's just the feeling 207 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: of your immune system kicking in, and it's a good 208 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's assignment that commune system is um is 209 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: doing good job. I think people who don't feel anything 210 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: though the airman system is working well too. All right, 211 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: that's good to know. That helps clarify it. Dr Josh 212 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: Charstein weistein for Public Health Practice and Community Engagement at 213 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, of course, supported 214 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. 215 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and 216 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio Well. The 217 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: season finale of The Paycheck podcast is available now on Apples, Spotify, 218 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: and Bloomberg dot Com. The episode tackles the issue of 219 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: closing the racial wealth gap by acknowledging the painful history 220 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: that first created the gap. Carry Wiggham is a professor 221 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: at Binghamton University's Institute of Genocide and Mass Atrocity prevention 222 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,599 Speaker 1: and a contributor to this week's Paycheck podcast. There is 223 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: still the reality that many white Americans have a difficult 224 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: time understanding how slavery was directly connected to, for instance, 225 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 1: mass incarceration and police brutality. Today, well, joining me now 226 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: is Joel Weber, editor at Bloomberg business Week. He joins 227 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: us on the remote from Brooklyn, and in the Interactive 228 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: Broker studio here in New York is Jackie Simmons. She's 229 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: senior executive editor of The America is also the co 230 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: host of the Paycheck podcast, and she's joining here here 231 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg News. I think thank you to both of 232 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: you for for joining me today, Joel, I want to 233 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: start with you, uh eight episodes. This is this season finale, 234 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: and this is a particularly powerful one because it wrestles 235 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: with the legacy of a descendant of slave owners. Who 236 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: is one of our colleagues. Yeah, and that's clear Sabbath, 237 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: and who wrote a story today that coincides with this 238 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: um most recent episode of the Paycheck and it is 239 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: it just immediately grabs you by the caller when she 240 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: started reading it, because it is a history that a 241 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: lot of Americans share, where you know, deep in um, 242 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: your family's history. There's um something that you you might 243 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: not be proud of now, but it is the you know, 244 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: a truth, and it was something that clear set out 245 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: to wrestle with. I also just thought, you know, Jackie 246 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: was so siminar in this podcast. I thought it was 247 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: a really interesting contrast and book end to the very 248 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: first episode, which which was about Jackie's story. So so, Jackie, 249 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: we were kind of hoping you could kind of give 250 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: us an idea about how these bookends came together and 251 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: how you all approached um putting together such an amazing podcast. Yeah, 252 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. So I would say that when 253 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: we started to think about the next season of The Paycheck, 254 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: you know, the first two seasons were about the gender 255 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: pay gap, but it was round the time post Floyd's 256 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: um killing when we started to sort of think, what 257 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: can we do to really you know, bubble up some 258 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: of the data, some of the history, some of the 259 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: facts from the past that takes us to one and 260 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: sort of capture a little bit of the momentum the 261 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: frustration I think that's been building and so kind of ironically, 262 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: a cousin of mine had been struggling with how to 263 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: get some money from this land that basically has been 264 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: in our family for for many generations. And I started 265 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: researching it. I knew in the back of my mind 266 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: we had this piece of property in East Texas, but 267 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: I never really knew what came of it, And so 268 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: I started going through records, talking to family members. Um. 269 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: I made so many calls, I looked through so many 270 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, sites, and just really talked to officials to 271 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: really try and piece together the picture of the story 272 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: and what it really is. It sort of shows how 273 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: the messiness um of how black families and that time 274 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: acquired land and then also how over time because of taxes, 275 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: sometimes because because of chicanery, we lost that land. And so, 276 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: as you said, it's a great um clear story is 277 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: such a wonderful book, and to a story of a 278 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: black family gaining wealth and losing it, and then her 279 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: story which is very personal equally personal that sort of 280 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: tells it from a perspective of a descendant of a 281 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: slave owner, which is I just think wonderfully kind of 282 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: contrast and rich. There was this moment, Jackie that that 283 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: hit me in in this most recent episode, the finale, 284 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: when I was listening to it today, and it had 285 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: to do with just thinking about my own place in 286 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: this world. And it was it was something that you 287 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: guys talked about the fact that even people who aren't 288 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: descendants of slave owners, white people, UM, they might not 289 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: necessarily think about their connection to slavery because they don't 290 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: necessarily have that connection. But at the same time, they 291 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: are part of a system that has benefited from slavery, 292 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: even if they've only been in this country for one 293 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: or two generations. That's correct. And I think that it 294 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: was a question I asked Claire, and I think I 295 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: thought her perspective on that was was very powerful because 296 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: she was basically saying that it's not you don't get 297 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: a free pass because you can't say that you had 298 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: a direct connection to slavery. Is she's basically, you know, 299 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: being very honest and quite um brave, I think, to 300 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: come out and really share that story. Um, you can't 301 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: hide behind you know, something that is structural and systemic 302 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: in our economy, um and in our social system because 303 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: you didn't have a direct descendant. So I think you know, 304 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: everyone's accountable in some way. UM. And I think that 305 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: the most powerful thing in her story is that you 306 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: just have to find the truth about it, you have 307 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: to kind of reckon with the truth. You have to 308 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: understand the past, and you can't hide behind excuses for 309 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: not sort of being willing to not only know it, 310 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: but also embrace it before we can find ways to 311 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: try and fix it. You know, you used a phrase 312 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: there that um. I think in a way it sums 313 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: up everything I've learned about UM through the Paycheck, which 314 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: which is you know this idea that you know we 315 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: make excuses and you know so much of where the 316 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: podcast and the stories that are part of the podcast 317 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: come from is just sort of a cold a cold 318 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: a real, honest to god um full assessment of some 319 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: inconvenient truths, I think. And so Jackie, I'm curious, you 320 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: know your role in this season, how you think about 321 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: it going forward? Like what did what did you learn 322 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: while you were working on this particular season and how 323 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: is that going to inform what's yet to come from 324 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: from the Paycheck? Yeah, I mean I think the thing 325 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: that stood out there's three things that stood out to 326 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: me really in a powerful way. I think at this 327 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: sheer scale of the damage done is almost so hard 328 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: for people to grasp that it makes it easier to ignore, 329 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. So for instance, you know, we 330 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: did the math. You know, we calculated the cost of 331 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: what was the value of a human body in in 332 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: slave days and that number comes to forty two trillion dollars. 333 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: And that is when you count for inflation and other things. 334 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: You know, what was the cost of the damage done 335 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: when you tear down Blackwall Street? You know, when you lynch, 336 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, when you murder. I mean, what is the 337 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: cost of that? I mean Tulsa alone, Black Wallstree in 338 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: Oklahoma that was two million dollars, so, you know, and 339 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So I think you know, 340 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: that was definitely a huge takeaway and sort of overwhelming 341 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: in and of itself. The second one was really there 342 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 1: the unsung heroes, UM that basically have the resilience, um, 343 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, black and white to keep this narrative going. 344 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: So people like Kelly House. UM. I actually didn't know 345 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: much about her before I started doing the research. She 346 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: was a black woman who was one of the first 347 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: people to talk about reparations and she was jailed for it. Um. 348 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: You know, John Boyd is a Virginia farmer. I think 349 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: an episode five, who you know testified before Congress about um, 350 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: you know, how to get subsidies and payments back to 351 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: black farmers. So you know, there was a number of 352 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: unsung heroes in this narrative, but there are also a 353 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: lot of interesting, interesting things happening in one. Well. It 354 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: is an incredibly powerful series. Jackie, thank you so much 355 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: for joining us to tell us more about it. I 356 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: encourage everybody to check it out. You can listen to 357 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: the Paycheck podcast at Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. 358 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: Jackie Simmons is Senior executive editor for The America's at 359 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. She's the co host of the Paycheck podcast. 360 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: Joe Laber, editor at Bloomberg Business Week, on the remote 361 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: from Brooklyn, Guys, thank you so much. This is Bloomberg. 362 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 363 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. My fellow Americas, 364 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: trickled down, trickled down economics has never worked. It's time 365 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: to grow the economy from the bottom in the middle out. 366 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: That was of course President Biden in his joint session 367 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: to Congress last night. Joining us now for his thoughts 368 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: is Chris Leu, former Deputy Secretary of Labor under President Obama. 369 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: He joins us on the phone from Charlottesville, Virginia. We 370 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: should note that Chris has just been nominated by President 371 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: Biden to be the U S Ambassador to the United 372 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: Nations for Management and Reform. Chris, thanks so much for 373 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: joining us. UM, absolutely good to be on. Congratulations on 374 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: the nomination too. Um. What did you make of the 375 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: President's joint session? He certainly at the beginning really leaned 376 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: into what he has accomplished over his first one days, 377 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: specifically with regard to COVID, but then really spent the 378 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: next period of time focusing on what he plans to 379 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: do and how he plans to do it. Yeah, for him. First, 380 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: let's just take note of the surroundings and the optics 381 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 1: around the speech. And it was certainly one of the 382 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: quieter States of the Union or joint addresses that we 383 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: have seen in a long, long time standing. There in 384 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: not even a half filled room. Um, it was subdued, 385 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: and I think it was appropriate for the moment, because 386 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, we've made tremendous gains in terms of COVID 387 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: and the economy. But um, there's still far too many 388 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: people out of work. There's still far too many people 389 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: getting sick and dying, and so ironically, I think the 390 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: setting in the tone was appropriate for the moment. And 391 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 1: you're right, I mean the speech is really, I think, 392 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: really two to three different parts. One was talking about COVID, 393 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: the two d and twenty million vaccines, the hundred and 394 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: sixty million checks that have gone out the door, but 395 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: really sort of stressing to people, you know what, the 396 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: fight is not over. I mean, we've gotten fifty some 397 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: percent of the American adults immunized, but we still have 398 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people, far too many people who haven't 399 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: gotten vaccinated, and that's a problem, and that could be 400 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: a bump in the road, uh if if we can't 401 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: get over that. And then obviously the bulk of the 402 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: speech was focused on um, you know, selling infrastructure and 403 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: talking about what infrastructure means. And then finally, I think 404 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: the final pivot was to George Floyd racial justice unity. 405 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: So it's what I expected, even if the optics theatrics 406 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: of it were different from previous joint addresses. Well, I 407 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: do you have a question for you on optics, because 408 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: there's this photo that that's absolutely making the rounds when 409 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: it happened. An image from last night continue to make 410 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: the rounds on social media today, and it's that one 411 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: of the president fist bumping Representative Liz Cheney of Wyoming. 412 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 1: A Republican of course. Uh, but to me, Liz Cheney 413 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: is is is the old school Republican Party, the establishment 414 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: Republican Party, and in fact, to the extent that even 415 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: members of her own party, who someone characterizes more extreme, 416 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: have been trying to push for her ouster from committees 417 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: and trying to campaign against her already. What did you 418 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: make of that moment? Is that is that there is 419 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: that Senator Biden reaching across the aisle. Well, I do 420 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: think it's Senator Biden. I think I think, um, the 421 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: President wants to work with anybody, and he is remarkably 422 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: generous in his views of uh, the opposing party, who 423 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: who he does in view as the enemy. He feels 424 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: as people who UM are are patriotic Americans who simply 425 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: disagree on issues. But he's going to try to find 426 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: that common agreement. So I was struck by that moment 427 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: as well. I would also caution about reading too much 428 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: into this. Uh, you know, I staff President Obama for 429 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: different states of the Union. He walks down that aisle, 430 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: and even in a packed a normal room, when it's packed, 431 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: they're Democrats and Republicans on both sides, and it's just 432 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 1: a matter of courtesy, frankly to shake the hand of 433 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: or fist bump the hand of the commander in chief. 434 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: And I think that's what you know, Liz Cheney, who 435 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: whose own father had been vice president, I think understood 436 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: this is you know, in moments like this, this transcends 437 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: partisan politics. And if fist bump is certainly one thing, 438 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: but getting congressional Republicans on board with plans that number 439 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: in the trillions of dollars is completely different. As Bloomberg 440 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: Business Week has written about, now comes the hard part, 441 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: right when it comes to to Biden's plans and what 442 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: he wants to do, especially before the mid terms. How 443 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: does Biden sell this to Republicans. I think it's clear 444 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: that he's selling it to the American people. And indeed, 445 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: the you know, public opinion polling indicates that that parts 446 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: of these plans are are very popular with Democrats and 447 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: Republicans als. But typically when it comes to infrastructure, but 448 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: getting Republicans on board to spend this amount of money 449 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: is going to be a tough, tough, tough slog. How 450 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: does he do it? Yeah, and not only not only 451 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: to get behind it, but how to pay for it 452 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: as well. But I think that point that you made 453 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: is correct. If you look at the polling on infrastructure, 454 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: it pulls incredibly well, especially when you tell people you're 455 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: going to pay for it by raising corporate taxes in 456 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: much the same way that the economic relief package from 457 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: last month pulled very well. And so I think the 458 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: White House is going to make best efforts to find 459 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: bipartisan agreement and Congress, but they know full well that 460 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: if they can't do that, the American people are behind them. 461 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: But getting to, you know, the the guts of this, 462 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: there is a bucket of things that fall into what 463 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: we would call traditional infrastructure where there is bipartisan agreement, 464 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: and that at this point it's really a strategic decision 465 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: about whether you pull those parts out, pass them on 466 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: a bipartisan basis, and then do the or once through 467 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: the budget reconciliation process. I do think it is the 468 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: preference of the White House and the President to try 469 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: to do the whole thing at one time, and it's 470 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why you heard him talking last 471 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: night about what infrastructure means. It's not just roads and bridges, 472 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: it's broadband, it's the electric grid that we saw fail 473 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: in Texas, it's safe drinking water, and then broadly, it's 474 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: you know, this concept of human infrastructure. UM, that that 475 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: we need to be mindful about as well. The challenge 476 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: I see, Chris is is that it's hard for I 477 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: think a lot of people to envision what this looks 478 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: like years down the line. And that's been really tough 479 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: for politicians who have had trouble getting things done in 480 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: the long term. Um, how does Biden help make that 481 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: vision for Americans and for Republicans as well. We have 482 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 1: about thirty seconds left with you now, but I know 483 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: you're going to join us again on the other side 484 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: of the break. It is fundamentally this concept to build 485 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: back better, the idea that we can't just go back 486 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: to the economy me before the pandemic. We really need 487 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: to deal with some of these structural inequities that we've had, 488 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: both in terms of what it means for everyday Americans, 489 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: but frankly, the under investments in things like Rhodes bridges, technology, Uh, 490 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,959 Speaker 1: and we need to do that to be more competitive. Well, 491 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: let's get right back to Chris Leu, former Deputy Secretary 492 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: of Labor under President Obama. He joins us on the 493 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: phone from Charlottesville, Virginia, and Chris has just been nominated 494 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: by President Biden to be the U S Ambassador to 495 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: the United Nations for Management and Reform. Chris, UM, I 496 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: want to get back to last night and specifically tying 497 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: it together with what we heard from FED Chair Jerome 498 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: Powell yesterday. If there's really one thing that ties those 499 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: the words that we heard from both of them together, 500 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: it's jobs and getting those jobs back for those more 501 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: than eight million Americans who are still on the sidelines. 502 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: That's the metric that the President is using in the 503 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: recovery and the metric that the FED is using in 504 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: the recovery. How does the US get there? Well, it's 505 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: it's not going to be easy, and I think it's 506 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: right to set some contexts. We last month created nine 507 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: d and sixteen thousands, or recovered or you know, not 508 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: necessarily created, right, Well, and I think that's an important distinction. 509 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: We've recovered nine hundred and sixteen thousand jobs. Um, And 510 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: but we're still eight point four million short of where 511 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: we were before the pandemic. And it's important to understand 512 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: that during this period of time, over the past year, 513 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: a lot of the longer term trends that we have seen, 514 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: whether it is globalization, whether it is automation, whether it's 515 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: the rise of the gig economy, a lot of these 516 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: things have accelerated along the way. And so we can't 517 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: and again just we can't go back just to the 518 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: economy of the pre pandemic, because that's already left too 519 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: many people behind. So we need to understand that we 520 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: need to both create the jobs. And it's we started 521 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: talking about before the break. Roads and bridges are the 522 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: easiest things to do, and this is something that's not 523 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: just good for workers and manufacturers, but frankly we need it. 524 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you drive around this country and as you said, 525 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: you see it. You walk into an airport, you ride 526 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: on amtrack, and you see the state of what we 527 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: have in this country. So those are great paying jobs 528 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: that actually can make us competitive and health the economy run. 529 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: But there's a lot more that needs to be done 530 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: in terms of training workers for the jobs of the century. 531 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: And this is the work that I did at the 532 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: Department of Labor and getting them as skills they need. 533 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: And that's part of why in the American Families Plan 534 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: that the President talked about yesterday, you know, he adds 535 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: on two years of universal pre K and then he 536 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: adds on free community colleges because he understands that in 537 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: this economy, simply having a high school education isn't going 538 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: to be enough to train you for those jobs. Um, 539 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: so it's training people. Then it's actually figuring out how 540 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: do we bring these jobs back to the United States 541 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: and how do we come up with new industries, which 542 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: is why there's so much investment in R and D 543 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: in the Infrastructure Plan. How do you think the jobs 544 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: market changes, or at least jobs change on the other 545 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: side of this pandemic there, there's certainly a tale of 546 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: two different types of companies, two different economies. The K 547 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: shape recovery, right, we talked about it all the time. 548 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: Company like Amazon reporting earnings after the bell today, added 549 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: hundreds of a hundred thousand workers in the last year. 550 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: It's it's it's massive. At the same time, you have 551 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: many mom and pop shops around the United States that 552 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: have been struggling to get by or restaurants that have closed. 553 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: So so what does the other side of this look like. Yeah, 554 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: it's one of the unfortunate aspects of the pandemic is 555 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: that while so many brick and mortar retail shops were 556 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: closed during the lockdown, UM cities and states allowed you know, Target, 557 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: Walmart and other big box retailers to stay open. And 558 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: that's just continue to heighten this competitive advantage that they have. 559 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: Recognize also that at a company like Amazon, while they 560 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: have created a lot of those jobs, a lot of 561 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: the more seasonal jobs, and frankly, a lot of the 562 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: people that are out there, um delivering packages to your 563 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: door are our independent contractors who aren't getting benefits. And 564 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: so there are jobs being created, but a lot of 565 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: these jobs aren't providing a stable level of wages or 566 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: benefits that allow people, um really to live you know, 567 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: um middle class lives and so and then obviously the 568 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: pandemic is as I said, it's accelerated a lot of 569 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: these issues. You know, increasingly, now you walk into a 570 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: fast food restaurant, whether it's to cut costs or whether 571 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: it was to prevent infections, they're now moving to you know, 572 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: you order on a smartphone or you or you ordered 573 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: on on a screen and you don't talk to somebody. Um, 574 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: that's a job that's now disappeared as well. And so 575 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: um yeah, no, I mean the structural changes that we've 576 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: seen for decades really have accelerated over the last year. Well, 577 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: something kind of strange is happening right now. There's a 578 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: story in this week's edition of Bloomberg Business Week that 579 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: talks about Uber and Lyft and ride hailing services and 580 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: the way that customers are coming back faster than drivers 581 00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: want to come back. And as a result, you've bur 582 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: in lift are are paying larger sums to drivers to 583 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: entice them to get back on the roads and start 584 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: driving again. At the same time, John Taffer from Bar Rescue, 585 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: the Show by Rescue I joined us on Quick Take 586 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: earlier today and joined Carol earlier this week on on 587 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: this program on Bloomberg Radio and talked about how he's 588 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,479 Speaker 1: having trouble getting employees and and his his His argument 589 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: is that unemployment insurance, which doesn't expire until later this year, 590 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: is keeping people on the sidelines. What do you make 591 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: of what's going on? Yeah, look, I I personally think 592 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: this argument about unemployment insurance de turring work is probably 593 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: overdone because what we do know is that there are 594 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: far too many states in the country where it's increasingly difficult. 595 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: It's always been difficult to apply for unemployment insurance. Even 596 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: if you get something, it's it's certainly not enough. Even 597 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: with the enhanced fatal benefits, it's not enough to work. 598 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: I do think the first aspect of this is to 599 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: ensure that we get COVID under control and basically provide 600 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: that level of insurance to workers so that they feel 601 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: confident they can go to whatever work and not know 602 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: they're going to be sick. So that's I think, um 603 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: number one. But I do think broadly, um, we are 604 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: starting to again to see this mismatch of people having jobs, 605 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: uh needing to fill jobs and having people able to 606 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: get those jobs. Chris Leu, thank you so much for 607 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: joining us. It is always great to have you on 608 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: the show. That's Chris Leu, former Deputy Secretary of Labor 609 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: under President Obama, joining us on the phone from Charlottesville. 610 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: Tim Stanevik Carol Masser live from the Bloomberg Interactive Broker 611 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: Studios on Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg. I'm roam a 612 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: journal now, but you let me drive? Oh no, no, no no, no, honey, please, 613 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: I'll do the riding, revel. Let me. I want to dry, 614 00:32:51,040 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: Just drive, baby questions trying, this is the drive to 615 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: the Globe community. Thanks, we'll try us on bloom Bird Radio. 616 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: All right, just about ten minutes left, ten and a 617 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: half minutes left to today's trade. You're just saying that 618 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: because you and i've been running since you since I 619 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: don't know what time. I know me from about five 620 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: thirty this morning, but you much earlier, same time. All right, 621 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: let's find out what Brad McMillan what time his day started, 622 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: his chief investment officer and managing principle at Commonwealth Financial Network. 623 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: They've got roughly two hundred thirty two point five billion 624 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: dollars in assets under management. Brad back with us and 625 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: on the phone from Waltham, Massachusetts. Brad, it is good 626 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 1: to have you're here with us. How early did your 627 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: day start? I usually get up about five thirty, the 628 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: same as you guys. Maybe maybe it's a financial thing. Yeah, 629 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: maybe it's a fin right. Just heard somewhere the early 630 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: bird catches the worm. I've heard that. So I'm still 631 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: trying to find the worm. Early bird is a little 632 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: tired today. Um So, Brad McMillan. The markets all over 633 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: the place, you know, lots of earnings this week, we 634 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: had the FED meeting. What's what's kind of driving your 635 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: thinking and your team's thinking right now when it comes 636 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: to investing big picture, everything is awesome and really office. 637 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: So I don't say that with any real joy here, Carol. 638 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: You know, when you look at what's going on, the 639 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: economy is doing very well and looking to accelerate. We're 640 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: getting to normal. The FED is very explicitly saying we're 641 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: we're all in. We're gonna keep pushing behind this. And 642 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: companies keep making more money than anybody would ever have thought. 643 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: So there's not a lot to get upset about. And 644 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: I think markets are just reflecting that, unless, of course, 645 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: you make under fifteen an hour. I'm just going to 646 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: put that out there, Brett fair point. And from a 647 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: market point of view, everything's great. If you're one of 648 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: the many people still out of work, especially in the 649 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: lower income tranches, it's a totally different stories. That's That's 650 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: exactly what I was gonna say. If there's one takeaway 651 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,760 Speaker 1: yesterday from the themes that tie together the President's address 652 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,879 Speaker 1: last night and FED Chair Powell's comments yesterday midday. It's 653 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: really those eight point four million unemployed Americans who are 654 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: still out as a result of the pandemic. So, so 655 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: help us make sense of of what we're seeing from 656 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: these companies and their outlooks. Well at the same time, 657 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: hearing from companies like Lift and Uber that it's tough 658 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: to get drivers to actually come back onto the roads 659 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: as quickly as customers want to. Well, I think you 660 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: have to remember two things. First of all, the pandemic 661 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: is not over yet, and a lot of the jobs 662 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: that are still out there going begging our jobs that 663 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 1: involve dealing with the public. So I think there's still 664 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,959 Speaker 1: a very real reluctance on a lot of workers part 665 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: to put themselves in that situation if they don't have to, 666 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: and because of the federal stimulus programs, they don't have 667 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: to yet. So two things are going to happen. First 668 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: of all, the stimulus programs are going to start to expire, 669 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: and second of all, the viral situation is going to 670 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: continue to get better. So I think you're going to 671 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: see that it out over time. People are going to 672 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: move back to work in a very natural way. But 673 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: we're not there yet. So how are you playing the 674 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: market Because there's certainly some spaces, including some of these 675 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,919 Speaker 1: big tech names. It's a little heady, and I am 676 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: curious when you look to commit new cash, where do 677 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: you want to go? I mean, everybody kind of is 678 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: like value value value. It keeps coming back and then 679 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: the growth just kind of overtakes it. Where would you 680 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: be committing new money. I don't think it's about value 681 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: versus growth. Um. I think one of the big things 682 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: that's hit growth is rates. We're going to go up 683 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: and then well maybe not, so you know, that's what's 684 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: playing out. But it's about what companies are a physician 685 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: to do relatively better, you know. And I think if 686 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: you look at the housing industry, that's just going from 687 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: strength to strength and that's not going away anytime soon, 688 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: given the demographic push behind it and the supply and 689 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: demand situation. You look at financials, for example, they're going 690 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: to continue to do much better as the economy reopens. 691 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: So there's nothing to do with growth in value. It's 692 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: what companies can actually start to outperform. I'm wondering when 693 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: when it comes to housing, because that was another thing 694 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: that the fedchhair was asked about yesterday. What ends up 695 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: happening to the housing market because prices can't just keep 696 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: going up. And look, I'm speaking from the experience of 697 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: people who live in the Northeast and New England and 698 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: Tri state area in California. Uh, it's somewhat of a 699 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: different story around the country, but at the same time, 700 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: it is a really hot market right now. Well, when 701 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: you look at there's the big story in housing is 702 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: We've talked about mortgage rates. Everybody knows that, but take 703 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: a look at the demand side. You have the largest 704 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: generation in history, the millennials, and they're just getting to 705 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: the point where they got to go buy a house. 706 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: You know, not only do they want to because of 707 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: the pandemic, but they're hitting forty they're hurting their peak 708 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: earning and spending years. They get kids now they need 709 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: to go buy a house. And we've been under investing 710 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: in housing for decade now. Ever since the bust. Yeah, 711 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: I find it. I find it interesting that it was 712 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: for such a long time, coming off of the housing crisis. 713 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: Bread that we were talking about over supply, right and 714 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: they were private equity companies that you know moved into it, 715 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: Blackstone among others, you know, where it became a really 716 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: smart investment. And then all of a sudden, we just 717 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: don't have enough housing. And it's safe to say homebuilders, 718 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, a little gun shy, and I think the 719 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 1: whole housing market right that they're not going to build 720 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: until they make sure that the demand sticks around it's consistent. 721 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Carol. And it's not just the housing industry, 722 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: it's the supply chain. When you look at lumber prices, 723 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, why is that there's still a lot of 724 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: trees out there, well, a lot of sawmills, A lot 725 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: of lumber companies backed off because they weren't seeing the 726 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: demand there and that's why we had the lumber prices spiking. 727 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: You know, I was driving around up in New England, Maine, 728 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: a lot of lumber you know, companies and mills and 729 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: the life. It is beautiful. But they were quiet, like 730 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: and I know this weekend and stuff, but I didn't 731 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: feel like if they were looking to meet incredible demand, right, 732 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 1: they might have kicked and extra shifts of the weekend. 733 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 1: And I did see that. Look the story when I 734 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: went to college years decades ago at this point, I 735 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: went to college in Maine and the story was those 736 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: mills no longer even operated, which is interestingly do you 737 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: wonder where it goes? Yeah? All right, So where do 738 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: we go from here? Brad? How do you see it? Do? 739 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: Is the rest of the year kind of baked in 740 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: a little bit or safe to say? We know the 741 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: Fed kind of has our back here. They're going to 742 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: be patient, They're gonna let inflation run hot hot, and 743 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: so for folks seeking yield, you know we're going to 744 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: see more risk being taken on or I don't know, 745 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: how do you see? You said everything is awesome at 746 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: the beginning, and that's right. I mean what's interesting to 747 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 1: me is when you look at the market and the 748 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: run up we've had, people were saying, wow, this is crazy, 749 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: but it's not if you go when you look at 750 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: it on a forward price earnings basis, you know, based 751 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: when earnings estimates go up, so is the price, and 752 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: it stated about twenty two times, so as we can 753 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: see earnings earnings expectations continue to grow, I still think 754 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 1: there's still some more upside there, and potentially more than 755 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: people think. So what is what is the specific opportunity, 756 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: especially when we are at a point where companies are 757 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: we're at the tail end of earning season or we're 758 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: getting to the tail end of earning season. This is 759 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: the busiest week for um UM. What are you hearing 760 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,320 Speaker 1: as the takeaways, Brad from from what we've heard from executives, 761 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: because we're still not getting a ton when it comes 762 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: to company outlook. I mean, look what happened with with 763 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: with Tesla for example. I think what's going on here 764 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: is it's the dog that's not barking. I mean, I 765 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: agree with you. Invest executives are still cautious. They don't 766 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: want to go out there. But I'm hearing a lot 767 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 1: less of the negative. You know, the world is coming 768 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,439 Speaker 1: to an end. They're not ready to be positive yet. 769 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 1: There's still too cautious for that. They're still gunshy, but 770 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: they're no longer making sure that they're pointing out everything 771 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: that can go wrong. It's not a change in tone, 772 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: but it's the start of a change in tone. The 773 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 1: start of a change in tone. When is that that? 774 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: We only have about thirty seconds left. But what are 775 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: you watching for data points to see when that tone shifts? 776 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: I think it shifts in the next quarter too, because 777 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: right now companies are running out of reasons to be unhappy. Yeah, 778 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: and I think it'll be interesting too in the comparisons 779 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: aren't so easy and whether or not then you know, 780 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: investors maybe look at some of the names a little 781 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 1: bit differently, and I guess we'll just have to wait 782 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: and see on that. Brad McMillan, thank you so much. 783 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: Everything is awesome when you join US chief Investment Officer 784 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: truly at Commonwealth Financial Network on the phone from Waltham, Massachusetts, 785 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: roughly two two and a half billion in UH assets 786 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: under management, and you know, interesting to hear what he 787 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: had to say. I mean a daylight today where I 788 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: feel like direction is all over the place, and yet 789 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: you know we're we're near our highs when it comes 790 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: to the SMP and now with just what a few 791 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,760 Speaker 1: minutes to go, we are instilled. Seems like investors shrugging 792 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 1: off the GDP data and economic data that we got 793 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 1: earlier today really just want to see earnings. Thanks for 794 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, 795 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to 796 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,959 Speaker 1: our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, 797 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: or watch US on YouTube. Search Bloomberg Global News, h