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Speaker 1: Ah beaute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio Special Operations, military

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Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community

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Speaker 1: Software Radio on Time on Target really excited this show.

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Speaker 1: We have Doug in studio with us, who's a former

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Speaker 1: Air Force PJ. We also have Gens on, who you

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Speaker 1: guys know from the load out room really as Rex

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Speaker 1: the Norum, which I forget sometimes, uh, Gen's I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna call you rights Um, because I remember when we

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Speaker 1: had you on, like really briefly at last year's shot show.

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Speaker 1: I was always under the impression that you wrote as

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Speaker 1: Gen's and then I was like, looking back on the website,

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I'm wrong. No, you know, is that

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Speaker 1: like your name in the Necromandican or something like that. No,

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Speaker 1: not quite. It's um, No, it's right, nick name just

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Speaker 1: translated to Latin. Yeah. I was running into issues Google

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Speaker 1: my actual name. You're gonna get a lot of very

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Speaker 1: not safe for work results for a certain film star

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Speaker 1: work coriminated and I had no idea. I wouldn't recommend it.

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Speaker 1: I really don't. That's all right. To avoid any confusion

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Speaker 1: with that guy and uh, you know, keep my name

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Speaker 1: clear so to speak. Um, I went ahead and use

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Speaker 1: my nickname. I never heard that story, but it kind

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Speaker 1: of makes a gens ever, it sounds like a good base.

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Speaker 1: So alright, So anyway, before we get into everything with

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Speaker 1: you and get into everything with Doug, of course, want

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Speaker 1: to talk about Pelican Corps. There are sponsor all this month,

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Speaker 1: hard sided cores that are all made in the USA.

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Speaker 1: Most competitors, including brands like YETI, they make most of

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Speaker 1: their stuff overseas. They have an actual lifetime warranty, a

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Speaker 1: wide variety of sizes and colors, ten different sizes and

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Speaker 1: eleven different colors. If you check them out at the

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Speaker 1: website Pelican Coolers dot com you'll see just such an

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Speaker 1: awesome variety. We're not like QVC. We don't have video,

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Speaker 1: but behind that's like military grade cooler right there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're great, man. So easy Pole comes in so comte,

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Speaker 1: not multicam, not that I know of. Ye check the

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Speaker 1: website easy Pole hard latches that aren't rubber bands like

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Speaker 1: the other guys. Pelican is a trusted brand since six

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Speaker 1: they're seventy court cooler. That's the one that Scott Whitner

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Speaker 1: was so lucky to get UH that seventy court cooler

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Speaker 1: can hold ice up to nine days their light. Other

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Speaker 1: coolers weigh thirty more on average. They've been built in

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Speaker 1: bottle opener under the wid that comes in handy ergonomic

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Speaker 1: handles which make them easier to carry. And UH our

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Speaker 1: code is just for the website. I know you can

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Speaker 1: get Pelican coolers all over the place, Amazon many other places,

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Speaker 1: but you gotta go to Pelican Coolers dot com for

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Speaker 1: our offer and use the coupon code soft rep. Where

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get with that is a twenty two ounce tumbler.

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Speaker 1: You add that tumbler to your cart with your order

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Speaker 1: and then you use the promo code soft rep and

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Speaker 1: you'll get it absolutely free. So just add that twenty

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Speaker 1: two ounce tumbler on Pelican Coolers dot com with any

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Speaker 1: order and you could find that tumbler in the drink

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Speaker 1: ware section once again at the hop and use the

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Speaker 1: promo code software. So get on that Pelican cours dot

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Speaker 1: com promo code s o f r EP And actually

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Speaker 1: the site that gens or Rex is a part of.

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Speaker 1: UH I did some great reviews of it, so check

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Speaker 1: out the load out room. Load outroom dot com. Uh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we'll get into Rex's background or Gen's background.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I have to say both names because

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of readers who know you as Rex Um.

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Speaker 1: But first, you know, just briefly before we get into

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Speaker 1: our feature interview with Doug, if you want to get

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Speaker 1: into who you are, and I also want to butcher

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Speaker 1: your last name, which I'm guessing is our median because yeah,

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Speaker 1: the I n Yeah, yeah, my name is Dug a

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Speaker 1: chi Jin. I was a power rescuement in the Air

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Speaker 1: Force for thirteen years, actually the whole time with the

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Speaker 1: Air National Guards, so I can get into that whole

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Speaker 1: story when we get into the feature interview, but it's

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Speaker 1: one of the best kept secrets of the Military Guard PJ.

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Speaker 1: And then I run a private practice physical therapy clinic

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Speaker 1: actually a couple of blocks south of here, so it's

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Speaker 1: pretty easy to hop in the studio and like kind

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Speaker 1: of like a sports performance consulting companies well with my

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Speaker 1: two business partners. So that's the down and dirty, and

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Speaker 1: I guess we can talk more later. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was looking at the website. I mean, what you

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Speaker 1: guys are doing is is really awesome. Uh and Jen's

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Speaker 1: if you want to just briefly mentioned your background and

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Speaker 1: then we'll get into what went down a Shot show

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Speaker 1: since none of us were there this year, but you

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Speaker 1: guys were sure and well, as stated Jen's hammer right

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Speaker 1: under Rex and the Norum Um writing to load at

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Speaker 1: Room for almost three years now. Just recently Um jumped

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Speaker 1: on with hamml Land as well, be writing the first

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Speaker 1: artup with them. Shortly. Yuh. It served in the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Army Second Range of Italian for four years. I got

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Speaker 1: out after five deployments and uh, it took a while

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Speaker 1: to find my next gig, but eventually got back into

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Speaker 1: civilion life and figured out what the hell was going

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Speaker 1: on and got back on track. Very cool man, Well,

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Speaker 1: pretty much every year I've been at Shot show, I

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Speaker 1: think you've been there. So which what number of Shot

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Speaker 1: show is this for you? This is my third one? Oh? Really?

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Speaker 1: I thought I thought you were more for some reason, because,

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Speaker 1: like Jack, you've been to how many enough to have

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Speaker 1: a star over my c I B I think I

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Speaker 1: did like seven seven Shot shows in a row, so

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Speaker 1: this is the first time I took off. Um, But man,

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Speaker 1: that's an experience. Yeah, I would agree. Going as many

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Speaker 1: times as I have, not not quite seven. But jen's

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Speaker 1: what was unique about this year? What did you enjoy?

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Speaker 1: What what new innovations are out there? Sure? Well, first

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of people ask you know, what

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Speaker 1: kind of what's different about this year and being my

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Speaker 1: third year? Um, the experience itself is different. You know,

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Speaker 1: your first year you really fight the venue. I mean

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Speaker 1: just trying to figure out where the hell everything is,

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Speaker 1: how it's laid out, where all these signs pointing me? Um.

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Speaker 1: Last year, my second, I got into the swing of things,

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Speaker 1: and then you're kind of fight in appointments. You want

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Speaker 1: to make so many appointments so you can feat so

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Speaker 1: many things and and really end up running from one

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Speaker 1: appointment to the next, missing all the cool books in between. UM.

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Speaker 1: This my third or I had a lot more time

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Speaker 1: that was unscheduled. I just kind of free form and

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Speaker 1: get out there and check out some of the lesser

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Speaker 1: known booths. UM. I think for me, the theme I

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Speaker 1: saw this year was kind of a little bit smaller,

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Speaker 1: a little bit lighter, a little bit more expensive. UM.

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Speaker 1: A lot of iterational improvements for for some companies, UM

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Speaker 1: Loophole jumped back into the red Dot game. They had

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Speaker 1: a really nice one back when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: and get picked up my first loophole red Dot when

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Speaker 1: I was like sixteen and lasted almost ten years. Pretty

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Speaker 1: rough abuse. They've got the v X Freedom red Dot.

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Speaker 1: They've generally generationally improved their l t O tracker to

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Speaker 1: the two and the two h D as well. One

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Speaker 1: of the big drawbacks to their little handheld demo is

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Speaker 1: that it just wasn't quite enough, not enough range, not

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Speaker 1: enough resolution. Everyone who used one agreed it's pretty cool, um,

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Speaker 1: but it was just a little bit limited. And now

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Speaker 1: they've really widened their scope. No punt ended um X products.

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Speaker 1: You know, they've had their their flamethrowers and their can

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Speaker 1: launches and stuff. A few years they came up with

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Speaker 1: the XM forty two light, a little shorter, little lighter

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Speaker 1: a couple of seconds last runtime on the flamethrower. Um,

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Speaker 1: if I remember right off the top of my head,

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Speaker 1: there they're old X forty two flamestor at like a

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Speaker 1: thirty two ft range, just one has and burn time

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Speaker 1: is reduced by three or four seconds. This is an

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Speaker 1: actual flamethrower that they're selling, actual flametoor. Yeah, it runs

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Speaker 1: on fifty fifty gas and diesel. M The diesel give

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Speaker 1: us it a little lower volatility and a little more

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Speaker 1: range since a little bit denser liquid, and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: ignite quite so quickly. You really spit it out there. Um,

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Speaker 1: I've got to get my hands on one. They you know,

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Speaker 1: they're not really interested in a whole lot more media coverage.

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Speaker 1: You're pretty saturated and and I'm glad that they've done so.

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Speaker 1: But they're just down the street here in Portland. I've

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Speaker 1: got to go get one. We said it was like

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Speaker 1: four d bucks dealer costs. I've got to find an excuse.

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Speaker 1: I gotta burn something useful for cleaning out Japanese pill boxes,

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Speaker 1: yep or industrial lawns. You know, whatever you've got lying

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Speaker 1: around it just needs to go now. Um. Also down

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Speaker 1: the street, danner Um they've got their new full board boot.

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Speaker 1: I've done a lot of work with dan over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years. I did a factory tour. They're

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Speaker 1: always quick to send out new products because I guess

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Speaker 1: the boot markets pretty tough to really get an edge in.

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Speaker 1: But I'm excited to check that out. It's a newer,

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Speaker 1: bigger beef. You're yet lighter boot. UM. I don't have

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Speaker 1: all the spects. I'm excited to check it out. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know a bit of well known. They've got a

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Speaker 1: real badass shotgowne, they've got the echo trigger, and in

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years they've getted into the lightweight

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Speaker 1: are market making magnesium parts. Back when they were Jesus

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Speaker 1: was mag Tech, they had they bought another a magnesium

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Speaker 1: lower um equipment and the problem was the old company

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Speaker 1: they were having magnesium lowers split on them. So they're

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Speaker 1: hyper light, but there they were self destructive. And then

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Speaker 1: now they've got a magnesium aluminium alloy, so these lowers

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Speaker 1: are incredibly light. I mean you pick one up and

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Speaker 1: it feels like a little handful of paper clips. And

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Speaker 1: now we've got them to where they should be a

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Speaker 1: lot more durable. One of the bigger announcements Glock. You know,

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Speaker 1: they came out their forty three X. It's just like

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Speaker 1: their forty eight. The subcompacts single stack nine millimeter, which

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Speaker 1: one has a little bit of the extended slim frame,

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Speaker 1: a little bit higher capacity. I'm still a bit short

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Speaker 1: on the slide, so it should be a good cherry gun.

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Speaker 1: I got to handle one but little was too long

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Speaker 1: a range day if that was a busy, busy booth

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Speaker 1: five eleven. Every year they come out with cool gear

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Speaker 1: and I got to top with the air backpack designer.

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Speaker 1: I forget his name. I think it was Scott. It

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Speaker 1: was a It was a great guy and we had

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Speaker 1: about a two hour conversation. The line of their backpacks,

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Speaker 1: the Apex line, and they're they're really cool. They're oh

194
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Speaker 1: and there's so many layers all the way from why

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Speaker 1: they chose this Danye fabric all the way to it

196
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Speaker 1: is like has stopped resistance. Um, but we can use

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Speaker 1: the light of fabric and get away with There's extra

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Speaker 1: zippers that way. No matter if you if cameras zipper

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Speaker 1: all the way to the right, there's still another one

200
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Speaker 1: over on the left. Wherever you reached, you're gonna have something.

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Speaker 1: They've even got a couple of hidden pockets that they've

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Speaker 1: used bypass certain areas with with ease even a packs.

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Speaker 1: I think they have the twelve hour of the twenty

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Speaker 1: four and I got the seventy two. Um, A rough

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Speaker 1: estimated how long you could you could survive out in

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Speaker 1: the field with that thing. But it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: really comfortable piece of gear. I'm excited. I've only had

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Speaker 1: it for a couple of weeks now, of course, but

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Speaker 1: I really want to dig into that thing and see

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Speaker 1: what it can do. And one of the last things

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Speaker 1: I saw it was pretty cool. I went to the

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Speaker 1: Norma booth, the Swedish Amma I'm owned by their parent company,

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Speaker 1: rug Ammo tech Um. They had a lot of good

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Speaker 1: AMMO there. I mean, they're they're really pushing hard. They

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Speaker 1: all of those brands in the Norma and and ruag line.

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Speaker 1: I'd kind of gone under under the level, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: the last few years. I haven't had a lot of

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Speaker 1: pub city, not a lot of big releases, and now

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Speaker 1: they're back and they're pushing a ton of new products.

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Speaker 1: All the way from this super quality sev HMR match

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Speaker 1: grade stuff was pining a one inch steel circle at

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Speaker 1: a hundred yards with no problem, was holding over with

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Speaker 1: little iron sights um all the way up to their

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Speaker 1: normal broad strike new hunting line. It's a boat tail

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Speaker 1: fish design polymer kid it still expands. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty good heavy animal realm or a few

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Speaker 1: other things I saw. I mean, there was a ton

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Speaker 1: of other stuff I saw, and it's really nice to

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Speaker 1: go and see all the people you've been working with

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Speaker 1: over the years and in really such space and get

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Speaker 1: a good briefing of what's new, and you make a

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Speaker 1: lot of contacts and really get to get a whole

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Speaker 1: year's worth of gear lined up to review one one

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Speaker 1: little show. That's for sure. Any trends in the industry,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think you mentioned that, you know, things

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Speaker 1: are getting a little bit lighter, a little bit more expensive.

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Speaker 1: But there any other like prevailing trends that you see

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Speaker 1: as far as where um, I guess you could say

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Speaker 1: the tactical gear or um, you know, tactical firearms market

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Speaker 1: is heading you know over maybe in the next twelve

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Speaker 1: to twenty four months. Sure the gear, um, it seems

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Speaker 1: like a lot of people are going back to the

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Speaker 1: the less than tactical approach. I mean, every every company

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Speaker 1: is going to have their their tactical timmy lineup of

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Speaker 1: flat dark Earth and olive drab and molly gear everywhere.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of companies are coming out with a

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Speaker 1: little bit more of discrete designs, backpacks that don't look

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Speaker 1: like backpacks, They don't have pash squares of velve grow

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Speaker 1: all over the place, and you know, usually more muted coloring,

250
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Speaker 1: the Wolf grade gaining a lot of popularities because it

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Speaker 1: looks more casual. Eleven Apex line comes in a nice

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Speaker 1: blue and it does have a hex grid on the back,

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Speaker 1: which stands out a little less than the molly writing that.

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Speaker 1: They also let me know they were going to come

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Speaker 1: out with kind of a cover patch, so essentially they

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Speaker 1: get six by eight inch flap of fabric with velcro

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Speaker 1: on the back, so it covers up that entire hex

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Speaker 1: creative molly webbing. Yeah, I have a I have a

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Speaker 1: ruck sack made by kafar U, which is a terrific rucksack.

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Speaker 1: I paid a lot of money for it, but it's awesome.

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Speaker 1: The only problem with it is it's all tactical, doubt,

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Speaker 1: it's got like the molly webbing on it. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's in khaki or whatever, coyote, whatever the color they

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Speaker 1: call it. So I mean I don't travel really overseas

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Speaker 1: with it for that reason. I mean, it just looks

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Speaker 1: too paramilitary. You know. It's uh, whether you get going

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Speaker 1: to get detained by somebody going through customs because of that,

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Speaker 1: or I feel like it just paints a target on

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Speaker 1: your back too, if for you know, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: criminals or terrorists or whoever. I mean, they look at

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Speaker 1: that and they say that guy must be in the military. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: You know, any time you go traveling overseas, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to stand out for any of the wrong reasons,

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Speaker 1: and looking like somebody who might be a target or

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Speaker 1: should be a target to certain groups, that's a quick

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Speaker 1: way to stand out of the crowd in all the

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Speaker 1: wrong ways. They do make some more civilian looking backpacks

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Speaker 1: now and like, um, like day packs, but they're still

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Speaker 1: kind of paramilitary looking. And what about you, Doug, do

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Speaker 1: you have any like go to brands, whether it's tactical

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Speaker 1: or just like outdoor gear. Um, you know, I know

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Speaker 1: you're you're an active dude. Yeah, I mean one of

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Speaker 1: the nice things about the Air Force was that we

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Speaker 1: pretty much got everything we got like tactical tactical gear wise,

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Speaker 1: we got the civilian version as well. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: forget like the security reasons, like I just don't I

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Speaker 1: don't feel right traveling you know, commercial aircraft, like wearing

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Speaker 1: anything that looks military, because it's only something bad can happen, right,

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Speaker 1: Nothing good happens when you engage in a conversation with

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Speaker 1: tactical gear and it's just like I don't like the attention.

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Speaker 1: And I mean there was a time whatever, like ten

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Speaker 1: fifteen years ago when you had contractors or like special

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Speaker 1: Ops guys and they would wear like tactical civilian clothes

294
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Speaker 1: but have a beer, and it was like they were

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Speaker 1: fooling people. But everyone in the chow hall, even the

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Speaker 1: the person who's been working there for two weeks, knows

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Speaker 1: exactly who the special Ops guys are. So you're not

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Speaker 1: fooling anybody with your you know, mollied out like tan backpack.

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Speaker 1: So um yeah, I would say, like, luckily I got

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Speaker 1: enough gear where I could get the civilian version of

301
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Speaker 1: whatever tactical gear we were initially issued, and so a

302
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Speaker 1: lot of it was more like civilian mountaineering gear, um

303
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: really really versatile and just holds up to the weather

304
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Speaker 1: and the elements, but doesn't draw a lot of attention.

305
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Speaker 1: And if it does, somebody's probably gonna say, hey, are

306
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 1: you a climber. They're not gonna say, oh, are you

307
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Speaker 1: like put the military. And I'd rather pretend to be

308
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Speaker 1: a climber than you know, yeah, yeah, I remember, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I think my first deployment to Afghanistan and we

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Speaker 1: all had our cold weather gear was like Polly Pro

311
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Speaker 1: and then what was the other system was like the

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00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 1: black fleece. Yes, that was the cool new thing. Uh

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Speaker 1: do you know what I'm talking about? Gen's Yeah, the

314
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Speaker 1: LEPs I think what was it called? Yep, that's it, um.

315
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Speaker 1: But yeah, the Air Force guys had like brand new

316
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Speaker 1: mountain hardware, like they were like ready to go climb

317
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Speaker 1: Mount Everest or something like that. I wore here today.

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Speaker 1: I've got my Arctic's Guide patrolled jacket and my black

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Speaker 1: Diamond uh, you know fleece there. So yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: what's the irony of this, by the way, is that

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Speaker 1: you guys are all, you know, for military guys looking

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Speaker 1: to look civilian, and then you always see the civilian

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Speaker 1: guys who want to look like they're that's tactical. And

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Speaker 1: then there's also just like the fashion stuff today of

325
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Speaker 1: like I was actually at a Chick fil A the

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Speaker 1: other week, right, and I saw a black dude who

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Speaker 1: was probably about like, I don't know, eighteen twenty years old,

328
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Speaker 1: wearing this jacket that had a bunch of military patches

329
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Speaker 1: and it had like a Macvie Sag patch. I'm pretty sure. Yeah,

330
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,520
Speaker 1: he probably didn't even know Macvie Saga was. Who knows,

331
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Speaker 1: But it's it's just like that's become like a fashionable thing.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's it's just not funny that you guys,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to look like I'm you know, military.

334
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Speaker 1: But the explanation for why and the suspicion makes sense.

335
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Speaker 1: It's amazing too, how many people here in U in

336
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Speaker 1: New York City or master sergeants in the Air Force.

337
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,919
Speaker 1: We're in the old d U s, you know, with

338
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Speaker 1: the chevrons, and it's like wow, like that's the our

339
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 1: uniform fifteen years ago. So who knows, Like I probably

340
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 1: have a teammate who you know throughout their b d

341
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Speaker 1: u s, and now someone's wearing it here. I see

342
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 1: a lot of assault packs in New York City. A

343
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,479
Speaker 1: lot of people carry them, and I don't think they

344
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Speaker 1: were in the military. I think it's just practical or

345
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 1: or it looks cool. I don't know what it is.

346
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 1: But and then also if you ran until like hipsters

347
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 1: where you live in Brooklyn would be like just because

348
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,399
Speaker 1: of dress this way, it doesn't mean for military. Well,

349
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 1: like I've said, in the past, Like, how ridiculous is

350
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,440
Speaker 1: it that the military is constantly looking at the corporate

351
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 1: world to figure out like tips and tricks, how can

352
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,439
Speaker 1: we better lead our men? But then meanwhile, the corporate

353
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 1: world is like, oh, we need to get like General

354
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 1: McCrystal in here to teach us how military leadership is.

355
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 1: Like who the fund is teaching who? Everyone's trying to

356
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 1: sell the same problems. It's a really good point. Not

357
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,400
Speaker 1: nothing is unique. No one's encountering these truly unique issues

358
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: that no one else is solving. I mean everyone's struggling

359
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 1: to deal with the same same problems for sure. Yeah,

360
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 1: so so gen's before we let you go. Um. I

361
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,119
Speaker 1: also want to hear about, of course, the Create Club party,

362
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 1: UM Oasis for Villains. How was that? That was pretty wild?

363
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 1: Every time great club throws on a party, it's a

364
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: it's a little bit mind boggling. I'm a I'm a

365
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 1: pretty small town guy of modest means, and I walked

366
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Speaker 1: into this place and it's at the end of this low, lonely,

367
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 1: deserted street and you wouldn't even know that there's this

368
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: massive mansion back there, and all of a sudden, on

369
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: the horizon you see these huge gates, new approach and

370
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 1: there's a security guard out front, and we see a big,

371
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 1: leggy blonde walking in and you say, well, I figured

372
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 1: this is probably the place, and so we could show

373
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 1: our passes. We got into and this place was sprawling.

374
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,199
Speaker 1: I mean, the pool had its own swimming pool, the

375
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 1: hot tub had an annex hot to the place was

376
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: massive and it was beautiful and many many people there,

377
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,879
Speaker 1: a lot of cool folks. Have to meet folks from

378
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 1: H and K. You got to meet our new uh

379
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 1: CFO of Hurricane groups too. We had a good time.

380
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 1: It was it was some poker table there with a

381
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,919
Speaker 1: couple of Japanese guys and we did a little gambling,

382
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: even though none of us knew much about poker. We

383
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 1: got through the basics, I suppose, but James Bond, we

384
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 1: were not a good time picturing like you know, gift

385
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: bag stand out where they're like Russian oligarchs and Serbian

386
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 1: war criminals and uh and you were playing cards with

387
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,880
Speaker 1: the yakuza. Yeah, I'd like to picture it that way,

388
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: but in reality, it's probably just a really cool group

389
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 1: of normal folks, um knowing no other differences that we're

390
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 1: co hosting there or some of them at least there

391
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 1: were a few car dealerships from Vegas and stuff like that.

392
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 1: Cost bonsoring Um. It was just a really cool group

393
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,400
Speaker 1: of people. You know, you'd think that was a bunch

394
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: of millionaires themselves, that most of them are just guys

395
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: like us, just happy to be such an awesome party.

396
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 1: And you know, seeing my editor Scott Wittner going to

397
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 1: the back secret room there with gray Man, what goes

398
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: on at the secret room? Jen's I don't know. I'm

399
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: not allowed, and to be honest with you, probably shouldn't

400
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: be allowed in there now. I'm very curious. I did

401
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 1: see pictures of him like getting a suit fitted. Was

402
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 1: there like there was like a sea mistress there or something. Yeah,

403
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 1: gray Man, I don't know if it's pretty fantactical or

404
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: just gray Man and co Um. They're a suit manufacturer

405
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: and they make some fantastic suits. A lot of this

406
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: stuff isn't available or hasn't been available on the civilian

407
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: market as I understand it. Maybe done a lot of

408
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: government work, state department stuff like that, and their suits

409
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 1: are really designed around that. So you have r f

410
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: I D blocking pockets, you have um slashers and some

411
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 1: sleeves and a little bit more stretched in the shoulders

412
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: and fasting you to draw a side arm. Um, really

413
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 1: well thought out, kind of the James Bond suit. And Scott,

414
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: you got a little discount code and went and got

415
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 1: fitted for a suit. Um, and I saw a couple

416
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: of suits. Are look fantastic. That's very cool man. And

417
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 1: then I guess last thing before we wrap up, since

418
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: we got Dug here and I want to get into

419
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 1: everything with him. Were you at the cry Precision party?

420
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: Because I know that every years always a blast. I

421
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 1: had an invite and I had one last year as well.

422
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: I've kind of made a habit out of getting ready

423
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: to go and then crashing on the couch and falling

424
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 1: asleep and sleeping right through it. Um. Now I didn't go.

425
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: I got to take a couple of videos and pictures

426
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: when when Scott and our other writer, Eric Meisner came

427
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: back from the party, it looked like a pretty wild event.

428
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 1: But I gotta admit it's not my scene so much.

429
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,360
Speaker 1: I have. I liked my quiet nights and a really

430
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: bad time, so I'm getting the old I'm like that too.

431
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: I had I had a good time at the one

432
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 1: that I went to it was the year it was

433
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: the Mario Kart theme. And then also it's just funny

434
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 1: to think back. She is married now, but I remember

435
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: on the podcast it became like an inside thing of that.

436
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: I had this crush on the Olympic shooter Amanda Fur

437
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: that we would have on and I was like, all right,

438
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm finally get to hang out this girl. Shot showing

439
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 1: I met her at the cry Precision part it was.

440
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 1: It was a very fun time. But yeah, man, I

441
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: that was and I don't have Mario karts. The Marri

442
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: card theme was cool. I saw people dressed up as

443
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: like Luigi and Mario. I have a picture with Amanda

444
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: Fur where you have people in the background just like

445
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: Luigi and the Princess. Um. Yeah, she's no longer amandat

446
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 1: first she's Amanda something else because she's married. But yeah,

447
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 1: all right, I remember her back in the day. She

448
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 1: was on a few episodes. Cool man, Well, I I

449
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: appreciate the recap of everything, and any guy who's you're

450
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,719
Speaker 1: enthusiasts just weren't going to want to hear all about it.

451
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: And I know at the load out at a load

452
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: out room dot com, you can see all of that

453
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: anything else that you're you're promoting. Note, I'm excited to

454
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: dig into some of these reviews. I mean, it's it's

455
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: really cool to see a lot of the new stuff,

456
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,959
Speaker 1: but it's hard to tell what's what's form over function

457
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: and what's the other way around. So I gotta get

458
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: my hands on some of the stuff and beat the

459
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 1: crap out of it, so we'll see awesome. Man. Admittedly,

460
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: sometimes you guys have said that I forget about blad

461
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: out Room on this podcast, and it's also because none

462
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: of the guys live around. We gotta have you guys

463
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: on the show more consistently. Sure, And I'll jump in

464
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: here in a couple of months and give you a

465
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: little update what I saw the show that's ended up

466
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: being a good product. All right, perfect, cool, Thanks man,

467
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on. All right, Thanks you a good

468
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: all right, thanks Jens. Al Right, Well, with that, I

469
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: want to get more into your background. I know that

470
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 1: you gave like the quick recap and also I want

471
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: to hear about you guys going to Columbia and all that,

472
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: but let's just hear like a little bit more in

473
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: detail about being a PJ because we don't have many

474
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: guys with your background on the show. Yes, so obviously

475
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: it's not one of the more publicized type of jobs

476
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: and special operations community. And how I found out about

477
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: it was I was a senior in college in September

478
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: of two thousand and one, and obviously nine eleven happened.

479
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: Then I wasn't one of those people who was like, oh,

480
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: nine eleven happened, I'm gonna join the military. That's like jack, right, yeah, right,

481
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: sense yeah, oh yeah, we're about the same age, I guess.

482
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: But so as a senior in high school, okay, so

483
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: I'm older than you, then yeah, I would think, yeah, yeah,

484
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: even more distinguished beard though. But yeah. Anyway, so, like

485
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: there was a lot more publicity and stories about the

486
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: military because the military sort of became a lot more

487
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: relevant after nine eleven once we went into Afghanistan and

488
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: I saw, like, you know, I think it was a

489
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: story on one of the news stations about Pea Rescue UM.

490
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: And at the time, I was premed, applying to medical

491
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: schools and interviewing at medical schools, and I had always

492
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: been intrigued by some of the special operations types jobs

493
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: in the military because I like the idea of like

494
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: that physical and mental challenge, but there wasn't really a

495
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: particular job that appeal to me as far as like,

496
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: because yeah, the challenge and the selection is great and

497
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 1: you sort of prove something to yourself, but you still

498
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: have to do a job ultimately, and I didn't. There

499
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: wasn't a job that I really liked that much. And

500
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: then when I found out about Pea rescue, it combined

501
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: kind of that, you know, that the physical challenge with

502
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: some of the more medical emphasis. So it was it

503
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: was I think because of nine eleven there was more

504
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: exposure to the military, and then when I found out

505
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: about pet rescue. You know, when I was initially exposed

506
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: to it, I was intrigued and kept reading about it

507
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: and researching it, and the more I learned about the

508
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: more intrigued I became. To the point that I decided

509
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: to you know, not go the medical school route and

510
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: to join the Air Force, much to my parents surprise.

511
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: Uh they're supportive, but you know, kind of wish that

512
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: somebody else's kid had done it. I thought, like all

513
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: military parents, you know, um, not that not unique there.

514
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: But so initially I went to an active I knew

515
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: nothing about the military, like most people who want to

516
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: join you kind of go in You're like, I want

517
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: to do this. So I called an active duty recruiter

518
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: in my area and I was like, he's like, why

519
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: do you want to join the Air Force? And I'm like,

520
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: I want to be a PJ. And he actually tried

521
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 1: to talk me out of it. He's like, well, it's

522
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: got a pretty high attrition rate. Most people don't make it.

523
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: You should consider doing something else. And I'm like, I

524
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: only want to. I understand that if I don't qualify,

525
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: I'm subject to the mercy of the Air Force. It

526
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: might be reclassified to whatever job, but I at least

527
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: want a contract where I'm gonna have the opportunity to

528
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,479
Speaker 1: at least try out for it. And he's like, all right,

529
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: like let me call you back in whatever a week.

530
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: And so a week went by and I called left

531
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: the message like hey, we're supposed to follow up. And

532
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: this went on for a few more weeks, to the

533
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: point that I just didn't hear back. So it was

534
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: almost a blessing in disguise because that forced me to

535
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: do more research, and that's when I found out about

536
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: how you can actually join the Guard and be a

537
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: PJ and I grew up on Long Island, and there's

538
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: were on Long Island, by the way, like Nassau County Manhasset.

539
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: So it's like, dude, I'm from an Ascid. Are you really? Yeah?

540
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: Did you get high school? So I did you? That's crazy.

541
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: I did not know that. Okay, so you guys are

542
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: getting live TV like you know, it's funny by the way,

543
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: Well not this, I shouldn't say funny, but interesting, you know,

544
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: because we're just talking about the nine o eleven thing,

545
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: you know, the you know tower, the top of the tower. Um,

546
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: when nine o even happened. I had a class there

547
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: Mr Blish Schools English class. I don't remember Tony Bligh School.

548
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: Very um passionate reader. But yes I was up there

549
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: and you can see the smoke from the towers from

550
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: from the top of the tower. Manhasset, real, yeah it was.

551
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: It was pretty eerie. But anyway, I mean yeah, and

552
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: Obviouslyn Hassett was a very hard hit community. I mean

553
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: you hear the stories of on nine eleven, like that evening,

554
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: like all the cars that were still on the parking lot,

555
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: and um, I was I was a lifeguard at a

556
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: country club Manhasset the summer before nine eleven. I just

557
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: remember seeing, you know, kids playing with their families and

558
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: they were a couple of families from that pool, and

559
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: I lifeguard at where the next year when I also

560
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: left guarded after I graduated college, while trying to segue

561
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: into the military, where you're seeing these kids who you know,

562
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: the year before that their father was throwing them around

563
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: of the pool, and then that wasn't happening. So I

564
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: believe manhas It was hit the hardest of just about

565
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: any house. It's been documented, yeah, because there's been stories

566
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: on Manhassean. I mean there's just there's a lot of

567
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: people from Manhasset who worked on Wall Street and would

568
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: make commute every day. So when I knew Chris Quack

569
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: and pushed like a big hedge fun guy who passed away.

570
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: I think there were a couple of places in Queens

571
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: too that got hit really hard where firefighters lived. Yeah.

572
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: Jersey as well, brought the rockaways for the firefighters. Yeah,

573
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: New Jersey suburbs the same thing. A lot of New

574
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: Jersey suburban uh, you know dads who commute to New

575
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: York who are hedge fund guys. Wall Street guys right

576
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: same in the in the area I grew up in Westchester,

577
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: people taking the Metro north back and forth. Yeah, but so,

578
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: and that's so basically like I had this sort of

579
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: negligent recruiter which ended up, like I said, working till

580
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: my benefit because the more research I did when I

581
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: found out about the Guard option, there was actually a

582
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: Guard unit an hour east of where I grew up

583
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: in West Hampton. And you know, so that I read

584
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: to end up bringing the perfect storm because that the

585
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: Long Island PJA unit was featured in that. And so

586
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, so now it's it's a PJA unit,

587
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: it's the Guard's you actually get to pick your duty station.

588
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: There happens to be a duty station an hour from

589
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: where I grew up. And kind of one of the

590
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: selling points of the Guard was that they did domestic

591
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 1: civilian rescues in addition to being deployed doing the combat

592
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: search and rescue. So, uh, the New York unit civilian wise,

593
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: rescue wise, wasn't as active as like maybe the team

594
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: in Alaska where you've got people getting into trouble all

595
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: the time, but that was you know, between the potential

596
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: for civilian rescues the fact that it was right in

597
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: my backyard, um, and I like the idea of the

598
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: Guard and that I always went in initially with the

599
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: intention like I'm gonna do this full time. But there's

600
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: the option where you can kind of do as much

601
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: or as little as you want once you sort of

602
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: go through your initial selection and training and then you do,

603
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: you know, going to deployment or two you have the

604
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: option of going part time and you know, so to me,

605
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: that's the coolest job in the world, like a part

606
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: time PJ. I mean, ultimately I went to grad school

607
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: for physical therapy while on the Guard, and that was

608
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: kind of like my summer jobs is a great way

609
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: to make extra money and do fun things. And I

610
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: still was deploying and very active, and I mean, it's

611
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: tough to maintain your proficiency as a part timer because

612
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: even when you're full time and any soft job, you

613
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: don't have enough time to do everything you need to do.

614
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, unless you're maybe like a

615
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: really high level unit where the funding and the time

616
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: and the support or conducive to it, like, you can

617
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: never really train enough. So that became a little bit

618
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: of a challenge. But the Guard. Once I found out

619
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,719
Speaker 1: about it was sort of a no brainer. And when

620
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: I called the Guard unit, I mean the recruiters like, yeah,

621
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: you can, let's take a PT test tomorrow, you know.

622
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: So it's like they're much more responsive to So yeah,

623
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: I mean that's a case where the military sort of

624
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: bureaucracy work to my favor. We went to school with

625
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: a couple of guys. Well, there's a number of guys

626
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: who are in the Special Forces National Guard, and I

627
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: mean I think it worked out pretty well for him.

628
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: I even met a f D n Y guy who's

629
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: in the SF National Guarden, an actual actual firefighter. Yeah.

630
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: I think, like you know, now, once the nine eleven

631
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: kicked off, I mean there wasn't really the stigma with

632
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: the Guard where I don't know what it was like

633
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: in the soft community, but prior to nine eleven, you

634
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,959
Speaker 1: know that the Guard didn't really wasn't asked to do

635
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: that much. But I mean, our our deployment cycle was

636
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: pretty much on par with active duty. That the length

637
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: of the cycle was the same, the train ups and

638
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: all that, and when you go overseas, your health to

639
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: the same standards. So um, and a lot of times

640
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: the Guard units had more experienced people like you might have.

641
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: You had a lot of people who maybe did one

642
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: or two tours on active duty. So it was good

643
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: and it was bad. It was good because we had

644
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: a lot of experience, but it's also very top heavy,

645
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: um where you know, like sometimes you can have too

646
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: many people who are experienced on a particular team or

647
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: on a mission. But um, yeah, so like there was

648
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: no degregation and skill or that. The quality of I

649
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: think what was being offered by the Guard was on

650
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: par with active duty and it allowed for more flexibility.

651
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: So that's kind of how I ended up doing that.

652
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: And then I spent um between full and part time

653
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: service thirteen years. Yeah, and I segued into physical therapy

654
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: when I knew I didn't want to make a career

655
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: out of it. And actually, like after I graduated physical

656
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: therapy school, before I could even start a job, I

657
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: had to go into deployment. I went to the Horn

658
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: of Africa, and so that sent me back, you know,

659
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: career why, I don't want to say set back, like

660
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: it was like a negative thing, but like you know,

661
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: six months, um, and I tried to run my own

662
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: practice and then do the Guard thing and it's like

663
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: that's where it became tough because if you have like

664
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: a you know, government or a civil service job, like

665
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: they're required to give you military leave, and it's much

666
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: more conducive to you can't really do one week in

667
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: a month, in two weeks a year and be a

668
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: pj OR. I think to do it well and be

669
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: proficient requires a couple of months a year of training

670
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: and when you're running your own business and getting paid

671
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: by the hour, basically starting over every time you come

672
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: back from one of those deployments or like a long

673
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: training trip. So it just became too difficult to do.

674
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: But both, but there's definitely things about that I miss,

675
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: and there's you know, experience I wouldn't trade for anything.

676
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: Still really close with the guys because they're only an

677
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: hour away from where I work, and in the capacity

678
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: that I am now as a physical therapist and with

679
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: some of the performance stuff, I'm still very much involved

680
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: in the community, whether it's like with pj OR or SOFT.

681
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: So I think that's help with the transition, because if

682
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: I had to be totally cold Turkey detachment, it would

683
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: be tough. Just like, you know, what would you experience

684
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: Jack as a host doing this. Yeah, just pop smoke,

685
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: you leave, you know, brag or whatever, wherever the hell

686
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: you are. And but again, if you were in SF,

687
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: a lot of guys can transition into the National Guarden.

688
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: I know a bunch of people have done that. If

689
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: you're in like Ranger Battalion or something like that, when

690
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: you're out, you're out. Yeah, because there isn't really a

691
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: Guard but battalion there, and there there are very few

692
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: National Guard infantry units. Um, you can still leave the

693
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: Ranger Battalion and go be in the National Guarden. There's

694
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: nothing stopping you from doing that. Um, maybe you'd have

695
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: to re class. I don't know, but yeah, going back

696
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: to where we're from, I was just curious of this.

697
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: There's there's pretty much no soft community in Manhasset. But

698
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: the only guy that I could think of that's probably

699
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: I think your age giver take a year or something,

700
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: was James Reagan. I know exactly you're gonna say that

701
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: wearing the bracelet. Oh wow, I didn't. He's just a

702
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: guy who was We we got together and he he

703
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: ended up going to Shamanad High School, which was like

704
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: a private Catholic school, maybe twenty minutes away. I didn't

705
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: know you guys knew him, Yes, so I played personally.

706
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: Not his sister was in my grade, but you know

707
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: it's she's got two sisters. Okay, so one of them

708
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: was in my grid. But it's just when you think

709
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: of special ops guys from Manhasset, the only name I

710
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: honestly think of his James Reagan. Because there's a road

711
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: named after him. There's a monument for guys killed in

712
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: combat in Manhattan, and the only name you see from

713
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: the current war is James Reagan. So yeah, that's I mean,

714
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that that you know him. But yeah,

715
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: let's get it. We we grew up together, played like

716
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: C y O basketball together, um. And there was two

717
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: public elementary schools in Manhasset, so we went to different

718
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: elementary schools. But yeah, through like sports, I knew him

719
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: pretty well. Um. And then he ended up going to

720
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,959
Speaker 1: the Catholic high school and I went to the public

721
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: high school. But I mean, speaking of it, I actually

722
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: went to my senior prom with his, um, his sister

723
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 1: that's older than than you are, um. And ironically enough,

724
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: it was at Windows in the World in the World

725
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: Trade Center, so to think that, you know, I'm going

726
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: to my senior prom with his sister and then a

727
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of years later, the towers fall.

728
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: And I mean, I mean, even if it wasn't directly like,

729
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: it's probably safe to say that somebody from Manhasset who

730
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: had just got into law school probably would not have

731
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: joined the military if not for something like nine eleven.

732
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: I know that he was inspired by that. And then

733
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: you know, sadly he was killed in in Iraq a

734
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: couple of years after that. Um, but I don't know

735
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: if you're familiar with the work that his father has done.

736
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: So his father was like in the finance community here

737
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: in Manhattan and started a charity called Lead the Way Fund,

738
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: which is basically to kind of fill in some of

739
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: the gaps between like what the government provides and then

740
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: what the families of rangers who are like injured or

741
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: killed in combat need. So, I mean, his charity is

742
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: doing things like building like adaptive houses for people who

743
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: maybe like the where the government didn't provide some of

744
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: those services. He's raised quite a bit of money. I mean,

745
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 1: he's had fundraisers like on the Intrepid here in Manhattan,

746
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: which is you know that's that's a pretty high profile

747
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: place on the venue because Jimmy Regan played lacrosse for Duke.

748
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: Mike Sachowski was the keynote speaker. So I mean, he's

749
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: he's drawn a lot of attention for some of the

750
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: for this cause, and like there's a lot of ways

751
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: to handle that kind of tragedy. And I can't imagine

752
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: being a father and having to to bury your son,

753
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: and I mean he would be totally justified and just

754
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: not wanting anything to do with the military and totally

755
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: separating himself from it, but like to turn that kind

756
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: of a tragedy into into what he has and to

757
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: have done so much good for the community. So I

758
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: can't I mean, I didn't know you're gonna ask me.

759
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: It's totally spontaneously. I just can't say enough good things

760
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: about Lead the Way and and Mr Reagan with James Reagan,

761
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: and that's just the work that they've done. It's truly, uh,

762
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: truly incredible, and like, you know, just how all these

763
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: things are kind of tied together and how small the

764
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: world is. When I was at Blade for my first deployment,

765
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: there was like a picture of you know, all the

766
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: people who operated out of a blade at the time.

767
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: Who are you know killed in operations? And so like

768
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: to get the ballade to go on the talk and

769
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: then to see Jimmy's picture on the wall. I mean,

770
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: the world is a large place, but sometimes I can

771
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: follow you wherever you go. And that was you know,

772
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,919
Speaker 1: it's a good reminder like obviously first deployment, the ship

773
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: is for real, but at the same time sort of

774
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: like all right, like you're inspired, like this is uh,

775
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, they could kill one of your friends, so

776
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: like let's go. It's amazing. Yeah, I didn't know him personally,

777
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: I knew of him, and I think I was in

778
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: Griffin group down in Florida when I found out about that.

779
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: And actually another guy who I was in range of

780
00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: battalion with uh Sean who's a warrant officer now, he

781
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: told me he mentioned something in passing about about Reagan

782
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: having been killed, as like what really, Yeah, it sucks.

783
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: Leo has been on the podcast for Leo Jenkins, who

784
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: knew James Reagan. But the fact that you knew him

785
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: as like a younger kid, people might be curious as

786
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 1: he's a name that a lot of people in this

787
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: community have read about what type of a guy was

788
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: Jimmy Reagan. Yeah, I mean it's always like easy to

789
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: say like great things about people after the fact, but

790
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: I can legitimately say, like truly like one of those

791
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: people that everybody liked. You know, when you're like in

792
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: high school, junior high like especially, guys can be like

793
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: assholes and they can you know, you're trying to fit

794
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: in with certain crowds, and to fit in with certain crowds,

795
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: you have to treat other crowds a certain way. Jimmy

796
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: was universally liked by everybody because he was just truly

797
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: a nice guy, like more sort of quiet, but also

798
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: very sort of intense and focused, even at a at

799
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: a very young age. And um, I think that reputation

800
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: carried him. I mean everybody that I talked to in

801
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: Ranger Battalion said the same thing, where it's just like

802
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: one of those guys were just not not a lot

803
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: of bravado, which inspires you through his actions. And uh,

804
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: he was always like that. And I could truly say

805
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: that even after the fact, like, yeah, that's that's just

806
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: the kind of guy was well, I mean, as sad

807
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: as it is that you know, he was lost I

808
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: mean it's great that he's still remembered in this way. Yeah,

809
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: and he always I mean, if his dad has anything

810
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: to do with it, he always will be and uh,

811
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that's a good thing. That's amazing. Um.

812
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: I guess you know, since what Ian was saying before,

813
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: we have an unfortunate lack of Air Force guys on

814
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 1: the podcast. We always end up talking a lot of Marines.

815
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: I don't know how marines sneak on here all, but

816
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: especially in Columbia, right yeah, where you at. Um, A

817
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: lot of Army dudes, UM, but not not enough Air

818
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: Force guys. Definitely not enough UM guys from the Air

819
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: Force Special Operations community other than you know, Mike Lampi

820
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: has gonna Um, I think we haven't scheduled to come

821
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 1: on again. Don't the legend right there? Yeah yeah, Bull

822
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 1: Simmons award, isn't Is he the one who like drove

823
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 1: the motorcycle into Iran? He may have. He was definitely,

824
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: he was definitely at Desert One. So we have to

825
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: do the second part of the interview. We did the

826
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: first part and we got up to like lause, we

827
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: didn't even get it, but he was he was in.

828
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: You know, he was there for the whole genesis of

829
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: Special Operations and Special Operations Command. So we have to, um,

830
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna do part two of that. UM. But I

831
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: was wondering if you could get a little bit into, UM,

832
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: what Pair of Rescue is, because I feel like everyone's

833
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: kind of heard of it. But there are a variety

834
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: of people listening to this podcast. Some of them are, UM,

835
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: you know, former Special Operations guys who know who you

836
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: are and what these guys do. But then there's also

837
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: a lot of like young guys who were like eighteen,

838
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: they're in the position me or you were in at

839
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: one time, and they're like, what the fund do I

840
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: want to do with my life? And I just wonder

841
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 1: if you could talk a little bit about what pjs are,

842
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: what their mission is, UM, so people can hear it

843
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: from the horse's mouth. Yeah, I mean, and specially operations,

844
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: Like the unifying thing is, Okay, you're probably gonna get

845
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: some form of parachute training, maybe dive training, You're gonna

846
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: have you know, basic small unit tactics training. UM. And

847
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: then obviously every Special Operations unit or team has its

848
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: own sort of identity, so and and Pair rescue. The

849
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: identity is technical rescue and medicine. So we would differentiate

850
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: a PJ from even like an eighteen Delta special Forces

851
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: medic or a seal or like a Marine corpsman, is

852
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: that if you're a medic on like in an O

853
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: d A, you're not going into a mission necessarily with

854
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,280
Speaker 1: the expectation that you're going to be medically treating somebody.

855
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: You're you're effectively a shooter first, and you're going in

856
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: really hoping that you don't have to do any medical

857
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: treatment at all, right, because I in an ideal world,

858
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: a you know, uh, a teen Delta or a seal

859
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: corman would never have to treat anybody, right as a

860
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: as a PJ, you're not for the most part, you know,

861
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: unless you're in a certain type of unit where maybe

862
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: you're embedded with assault team and you're serving as the

863
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: medic on the assault team. Because in a lot of

864
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: like you know, the higher level Army and Navy units,

865
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: the corman don't want to do any medicine. They want

866
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 1: to be shooters um and at that level they're trained

867
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: to be truly shooters first, and their medicine kind of

868
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: gets discarded. And that's where that you might have a

869
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: PJ who basically is the effectively the corman on those

870
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: on those hits, but a PGA team operating unilaterally like you,

871
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: you don't have a mission unless something bad happens to somebody. Now,

872
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: the exception to that is if there's more of like

873
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: a technical rescue or a precious cargo type scenario. Like

874
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: half the missions that I had overseas, we're recovering you know,

875
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: sensitive items from like from an aircraft. So that is

876
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: a situation where you wouldn't be doing any medical treatment.

877
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: But if you're gonna be working with human beings on

878
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: the ground outside of your own team, something bad has

879
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: to happen to somebody for you to get called upon.

880
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: So what the what technical rescue means is you know,

881
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: say like the helicopter crashes. For the most part, when

882
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: a helicopter crashes, the patients don't just present themselves to you,

883
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: like you have to go into not just laying on right.

884
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: So like even on a on a hit, like if

885
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: someone gets shot, there's no extrication. It's like they're right

886
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: next to you, and you go up to them and

887
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: you put them behind cover and treat them and act

888
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: them but in a technical rescue usually require some type

889
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: of like an extrication to gain access to those survivors

890
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: if there are any. So that's why pgs will carry

891
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: extrication equipment that maybe like what a fire department would carry,

892
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: but obviously a much smaller, more compact version. They can

893
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: carry it on their backs, So extrication is a huge

894
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: part of the technical rescue. Then there's things like, um,

895
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: you know, like rope rescue. So basically, anywhere a d

896
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: O d asset can get into trouble, a PG has

897
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: to be able to go there. So that can include

898
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: someone gets caught in the mountains somewhere and you know

899
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: you have to maybe performed like lower yourself to a

900
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: survivor and then create a mechanical advantage system with the

901
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: ropes to raise that person up. So, um, it's cool

902
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: that it provides a huge variety of rescue skills combined

903
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: with the with the medicine. But you know, in most

904
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: situation sations you're there to first extricate and then stabilize

905
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 1: a patient and that usually requires some kind of technical

906
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: rescue expertise along with the medical piece. So there's obviously

907
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: a lot of overlap and redundancy between some of the

908
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: soft teams. But I think what differentiates parta rescue is

909
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: like generally your missions are deliberately for personnel recovery or

910
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 1: like a mass casualty incident or some kind of a

911
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: technical rescue versus you're overtly looking for confrontation and then

912
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 1: you're only on call if something you know, if someone

913
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: gets like shot or you know, or hurt on the mission. Um,

914
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: You're you're going in for the most part knowing that

915
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: something bad has already happened to somebody, and that obviously

916
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: changes how you plan and it changes the tactics. Um.

917
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: That's if pges operate unilaterally. There are some pgs, like

918
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: I said, who maybe get farmed out to particular special

919
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: operations unit and they serve as like more of a

920
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: traditional medic type role, but they're still going to carry

921
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: all their extrication equipment and technical gear because they have

922
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: that capability, so they want to bring that to the

923
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: fight as well. So hopefully that kind of answered the question. Yeah, definitely.

924
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: And the other thing I think that's worth mentioning is

925
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 1: you know, all of you guys are dive in free

926
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: fall qualified right because and correct me if I'm wrong.

927
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 1: The reason being because you have to get where we are.

928
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: So if O d A gets into trouble, when somebody

929
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: gets hurt, you need to be able to get to

930
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: whatever ship they got into. Yeah. And the weird thing

931
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: with the dive is I never had a dive mission,

932
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: but there's been a lot of dive missions actually, like

933
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 1: in Iraq, where like a vehicle was that a bridge

934
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 1: crossing a river, I d hits it. Now the vehicle

935
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: has fallen into the Tigris River or whatever. And I

936
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: mean usually dive missions are recoveries, which is, you know,

937
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: not that ideal, but to bring the bring the bodies back.

938
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: There's been quite a few search dives and whether it

939
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: was like Iraq or Afghanistan or you know, some kind

940
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 1: of a ua V crashes you know, off the coast

941
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: of Africa, So there have been quite a few dive missions. Um.

942
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: I would say probably PAS have been the most active

943
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: in the soft community doing dive missions because for the

944
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: most part there have been too many dive infills. Some

945
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: of the more units combat iver or underwater demolitions. I mean,

946
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: we haven't seen that really much if all. And to

947
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: be like transparent, like the dives and peaches are doing

948
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: are not like combat dive scenario where you know, we

949
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 1: we went to dive school and spent four weeks doing

950
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: close circuit, but we didn't really train it that much

951
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: because for the most part we're doing recoveries where it

952
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: is a little bit more over. You're going to have security,

953
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 1: and I mean you're not you know, you're not gonna like,

954
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: you know, you're not doing a recovery mission while like

955
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: bullets are going off right right, you know. But it

956
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: is an an austere environment. I mean, it sucks. It's

957
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: dark and it's murky, and it's not using cold I mean,

958
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: it's it's like, it's not recreational scuba diving, and military

959
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: tends to take the fun out of a lot of things,

960
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: whether it's skydiving or scuba diving. And that's why I'm

961
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: not been into diving even after I having gotten out,

962
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: because I didn't have like great experiences with it. It's

963
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: usually throwing up on a boat and then going down

964
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: to the cold water where I can't see and putting

965
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: my hand on the ground and doing a search pattern

966
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: looking for something. The free fall course is probably like

967
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: the most fun, definitely the most fun course I went

968
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: to in the Army. But yeah, even then, it's all, oh,

969
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: you like you like skydiving, all right, we're gonna put

970
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,240
Speaker 1: you on oxygen. You're gonna jump at eighteen thousand feet.

971
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: We're gonna do it at night, and uh, here's the

972
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: ninety pounds of ship to strap to your body. We're

973
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: gonna you know, you just you just kind of waddle

974
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: to the ramp and to fall out. Yeah. I was lucky.

975
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: I went to the Navy free fall course. So you know,

976
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 1: you're staying staying at a hotel in Chula Visa, which

977
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: is right outside San Diego. And I knew right away

978
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: that it was different than the Army school because the

979
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: first day there was the threat of bad weather. There

980
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't like she was like chance of rain

981
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: and you know, poor visibility and low ceilings. And so

982
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: we got a call from somebody at the school, like

983
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: before we'd even met them, like, hey, the whole training

984
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: is canceled for today because it might rain. Whereas if

985
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: you're at an Army course, you're you're gonna stay there

986
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: until sev undred no matter what. Well, I'll tell you

987
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: they were pretty good about it out at Yuma, um

988
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: and and there wasn't rain out in Yuma, Arizona. But

989
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: if phill winds are too high, they'll just said there

990
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 1: were days when Yeah, there were days when we came

991
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: in and it was like nine am and they're like,

992
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: just go back, you guys have released for the day.

993
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess because of the high winds and

994
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: because we're inexperienced students there. It's like I don't want

995
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 1: to mess around. Yeah, but yeah, and so you mentioned

996
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: that the dive in the free fall capability. I mean,

997
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: if we're being honest, like most there have been too

998
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: many free fall missions UM in the last like ten years,

999
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: have been a couple. But it's like it's one of

1000
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: those things where you're you trained forward a lot and

1001
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: it takes up I think a disproportional amount of you're

1002
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: training time for something that you may never do, but

1003
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: you still have to train it. But that's where the

1004
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: civilian stuff comes in, because a lot of pjs are

1005
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: more likely to do a civilian free fall or parachuting mission.

1006
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: I mean our combat one especially, we've been establishing some

1007
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: of these theaters for so long that there really isn't

1008
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: much need for a jump capability. And now we have

1009
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: helicopters like the CV twenty two with longer range. But

1010
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: like in the Alaska unit, you know, you've got all

1011
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: these people, a lot of private pilots. They crash into

1012
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: a glacier and the only way to get there, or

1013
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 1: to get there quickly enough is to is to jump.

1014
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: So like that, you know, no know, gets quite a

1015
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: few jump missions. I'm glad you brought that. I want

1016
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: to ask you about that because I mean the both

1017
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: static line and free fall, I mean it has it

1018
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: gives you this capability of getting into some pretty austereo locations.

1019
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 1: Is that that is a capability that gets used for

1020
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: rescue missions. Yeah, even in California, there's a unit right

1021
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: in like Silicon Valley there. I think they actually share

1022
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: the airport with Google. They've gotten a few jump missions

1023
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,479
Speaker 1: off the coast of of Mexico and off California where

1024
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: you know it's a ram's mission. Usually where um you

1025
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 1: have the zodiac you kind of deflated, fold it up,

1026
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: put some cargo netting around it. It has an engine

1027
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 1: attached to it, you know, put a big shoot on it,

1028
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 1: throw it out, the plane jump out after it, getting

1029
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: the water, undo the cargo netting, UM swim out the

1030
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 1: nose and then inflate your scuba tank and then you've

1031
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: you know, de water the engine and you're and you're

1032
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: off UM. Now, usually in a civilian situation there isn't

1033
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: much of a need for the free fall capability per se,

1034
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 1: and now that they have the square shoots, But when

1035
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: they only have the round shoots and that was the

1036
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: only way to do static line, then you're probably better

1037
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: off even doing even though free fall is a little

1038
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: bit more risky because of the canopy control, which if

1039
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: you're jumping into a small glaciers, small DZ, you want that.

1040
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: So now with them they have the static line square

1041
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: shoots where you can static line from pretty much any altitude,

1042
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: and so even if you have a bad exit for

1043
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: the most part, you're gonna have a canopy overhead. But

1044
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: now you've got that precision cannopy ability. So usually on

1045
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: a civilian rescue, whether it's like ocean or the stuff

1046
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 1: they do in Alaska, it's typically going to be those

1047
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: static line square shoots and they can adjust the you know,

1048
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: you're gonna the lower the better if you can, because

1049
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: it's not a tactical environment. But There's even been situations

1050
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: where because the minimum jump altitude for those static line

1051
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 1: square shoots is higher than it would be for a

1052
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 1: round shoot, depending on whether you still need that round

1053
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: shoot capability. So I always hated jumping round shoots because

1054
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: to me, it's like a ankle or an e sprain

1055
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: sort of waiting to happen. But you still have to

1056
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: trained for it because on the off chance that you

1057
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 1: did a like a civilian or a combat mission where

1058
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: the ceilings were low, you have to be able to

1059
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: do it. But I hated it always seemed to me

1060
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: um and this is just me spitballing that you know,

1061
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 1: we have all these Special Forces guys and all these

1062
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: pjs who are trained in this with this capability, like

1063
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 1: in a scenario like like what happened down in Puerto Rico,

1064
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 1: like that to me is like an ideal time, like

1065
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: let's just static line jump teams into this area after

1066
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: the in an aftermath of a hurricane or an earthquake,

1067
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: and they start doing like their civil assessments on what

1068
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,720
Speaker 1: needs to be brought in here infrastructure wise, rescue wise.

1069
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: I think we should use it more often, but I'm

1070
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: not a rescue expert either, yeah. I mean in theory,

1071
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: it's a good idea, but you know how like especially

1072
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: commanders are when you're getting these big government bureaucracy bringing

1073
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: their hands and for for like a civilian you know,

1074
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: rescue relief. I just feel like, yes, like that's a

1075
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 1: technically sound way to do it in a lot of cases.

1076
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: But I can just see someone behind a desk being like, yeah,

1077
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: we're not gonna jump in like special obs because the optics,

1078
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, the media could spend some of those those optics. Right.

1079
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: So for me, it's also like it's a it's a

1080
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: civil non violent I mean, maybe maybe they just need

1081
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: to carry side arms if if that, Yeah, and then

1082
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: you're putting the teams at risk too though, because like

1083
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 1: they're I mean, I've you know, there there's been situations

1084
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: where in some of these places where that they don't

1085
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: always cover it, but they're like there's stuff that goes

1086
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: on where you're you need to have some kind of protection. Yeah, yeah,

1087
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: you know for sure, like Hurricane Katrina. Right. Yeah, it's

1088
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: a little sketchy, um, but I mean I've in my

1089
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: mind it can be used to you know as a

1090
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: civil uh civil assistance mission that also doubles as you know,

1091
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: some real life experience on the infiltration technique and and

1092
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: on the medic skills as well. Yeah, for sure. I mean,

1093
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: and the the key thing is like early mobilization. So

1094
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: whatever you're going to do, whether it's jumping in or

1095
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: getting teams in by helicopter, there needs to be can

1096
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: planned so that I think, you know, the issue with

1097
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: after Katrina was that there wasn't really a lot of

1098
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: impetus to get people there early. Now I think they

1099
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: almost overreact, where at least, you know, when I was

1100
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 1: still in, anytime mother Nature would even fart or cough,

1101
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: it was like, we're going to mobilize you guys, and

1102
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: it's like you know, a four and snowstorm. It's like

1103
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna get like special ops rescue guys to be

1104
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: on call. But I don't know what the happy medium

1105
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: is there, because yeah, I mean, you're probably better off

1106
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: over preparing than under, but then you're twiddling your thumbs

1107
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: and doing nothing. But what we can pay for it

1108
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: to sit around to do nothing. Politicians look so bad

1109
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 1: after Katrine, you know, and that's why George Bush sent

1110
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 1: eighty second airborne down there after it was already all over. Yeah,

1111
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about like some of

1112
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: your deployments as far as like where you where you went,

1113
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: what you did, what, what it's like being a PJ,

1114
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: you know, deployed in support of you know, a task

1115
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: force or whatever. Yeah, the cool thing about being a

1116
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: pH is like you don't always do the same thing

1117
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: under deployment. So my first deployment, I was basically doing

1118
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: like combat search and rescue for like some of the

1119
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: assault forces that were down there. So you're you're I mean,

1120
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: you're more of a contingency and that's where for the

1121
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: most part, you're hoping that you don't get a mission

1122
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: because you're you're there to support some very specific missions

1123
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: and objectives, and if you're the wise, that means that

1124
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: like one of your fellow Americans, you know, a casualty

1125
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: on target, So you don't want that. But it was

1126
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: a good first deployment just because you're was in the

1127
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: aircraft a lot. I got to sit in a lot

1128
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: of the briefs with the assault units and so you

1129
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: just get to see how how they operate, and from

1130
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: like a situational awareness standpoint, it was very helpful just

1131
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: to be constantly listening and knowing what's going on. The

1132
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: only actual missions I got on that deployment was just

1133
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: some U A V recoveries, um, and then toy airplanes crashed. Yeah, exactly. Um.

1134
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: From my first deployment, I actually went right to my

1135
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: second deployment without obviously had the option to like go

1136
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: home for a month or to just stay in country

1137
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: and and then go from Iraq to Afghanistan. And I

1138
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: was like, if I have to go home for you know,

1139
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 1: three to four weeks, like it's gonna be much harder

1140
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: to come back, right, So I was like, I'll just

1141
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: stay there because basically I volunteered for an additional deployment

1142
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 1: outside of my team, and then when my my actual

1143
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: unit deployed, I met them in Afghanistan and that was

1144
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: more doing um, you know, certain combat search and rescue

1145
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,280
Speaker 1: for the whole theater, not just for like a Special

1146
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: Operations task Force. And everybody is always enamored with like

1147
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 1: special ops stuff, but I mean some of the stuff

1148
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: that pj's were doing for the like that just the

1149
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: theater y, like we're doing way more dangerous missions because

1150
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: for the most part, like task force people have all

1151
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: the assets, they're very good at what they do, so

1152
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: they're generally not getting into trouble, which is a good

1153
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: thing when you're on the hook for anything that can

1154
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: happen in a particular region of Afghanistan, Like just things

1155
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: happen no matter what. So from like a medical standpoint,

1156
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: you're getting a lot more UM, you know, medical treatment,

1157
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: medical experience, some some experience on the ground, depending on

1158
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: you know, what happens to the people you're responding to UM.

1159
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: And there there's a little bit of overlap between like MEDEVAC, KASOVAC,

1160
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: and CSAR, and that was kind of a point of

1161
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: friction with a lot of pjs because pigs are like, well,

1162
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: we want to do all this like tactical, high speed stuff.

1163
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 1: But then if you're if you're waiting for like the

1164
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: the black Hawk down scenario and that's why you want

1165
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 1: to be in theater, you might go on to diploma

1166
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: and not have any work. And the way the military works,

1167
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: as you know, is like if you're not doing stuff

1168
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: all the time and you're deemed to be not relevant.

1169
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: It's why you have even very highly trained units now

1170
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 1: who are volunteering from missions or assignments that they probably

1171
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 1: wouldn't have wanted to do. Ten or fifteen years ago

1172
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: because you just want to stay sort of relevant. Um,

1173
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: But so, like I think the CASAVAC thing was good

1174
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: because like, all right, at least we're there and we're

1175
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: doing something versus waiting for like the really crazy sophisticated

1176
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: mass casualty scenario from an I D or like a

1177
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: down bird. You were doing some more traditional metavac CASOVAC

1178
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: type stuff, but it's not like it was coming at

1179
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: the expense of something else besides maybe bruising your ego

1180
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: a little bit. But what were some of the scenarios

1181
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: are rescue situations that you and your team got called into. Yeah,

1182
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: I mean so a lot of times you're you're treating

1183
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: like indigenous people right because they're the bulk of the casualties.

1184
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: So you know, like different maybe like a like a

1185
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: ranger team or like an s F unit is working

1186
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: with like a partner force on an ops. We responded

1187
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 1: to a lot of those situations. Um, not me persly,

1188
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: but like there's been die missions in Afghanistan, there has

1189
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: been some really involved extrication missions where you've had like

1190
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: even like a guy from my team like a partner

1191
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: force or of like a not a partner force, but

1192
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: like I think it was like a Danish team was

1193
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: hitting like a really severe i e. D. And you know,

1194
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: like the the vehicles on fire and guys are going

1195
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: in putting the fire out and doing like surgical airways

1196
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: while the fire still going on before the person is

1197
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: fully extricated, just to get an airway and do some

1198
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: of these lifesaving interventions. Souh. It's it's like anything that

1199
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: can you can imagine. It could be like any other job.

1200
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: The bulk of the time, you would regard it as

1201
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: relatively routine from the standpoint like you have a casualty,

1202
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: your air landing right next to it, you know, picking

1203
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: the person up, and then because a lot of the

1204
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: fobs in Afghanistan especially or even a rack, we're so

1205
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: close together, you have a short transport time. But there

1206
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: are even some fop to fop transports where people were like, oh,

1207
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: this is this is bullshit, why are we doing this?

1208
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, like you're a

1209
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: highly trained medical person and that's still someone's life and

1210
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: if you're the best person to provide that treatment, then

1211
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: again she put your ego aside. So um, there was

1212
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: that I've been to deployments on the Horn of Africa

1213
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: where I actually was formed out to like another service

1214
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: and they were doing some you know, some fit stuff

1215
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: over there um and you know on some ops where

1216
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: you know that the partner forces got into some ticks

1217
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: and got got to do a lot of high level

1218
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: medical treatment. And then because you're in some of these

1219
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 1: remote places and you can't always evacuate the partner forces

1220
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: to higher care, got to work with some of the

1221
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: like the surgical teams, the American surgical teams that were

1222
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: embedded there and do a lot of the follow on care.

1223
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,439
Speaker 1: So it's a really cool variety of experiences where there's

1224
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: not just one type of mission set much like an

1225
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: O d A, where you know you could do something

1226
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: like direct action, you could do fit, you could do reconnaissance,

1227
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: so we could be involved in those kind of missions

1228
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: as well, but the emphasis is always on the on

1229
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: the medical part, whereas you know, for someone like you

1230
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: might be the weapon's aspect or the intelligence aspect to

1231
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: the comms aspect. So yeah, I mean any special operations job,

1232
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 1: it's a great the experiences you can have, and a

1233
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: lot of it's being in the right place at the

1234
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: right time. But Again, it's a double edged sward with

1235
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: pair rescue because if something happens, you want to be

1236
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: the person to help out, but you're not like necessarily

1237
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: looking for work, right, So yeah, that's where that that's

1238
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: kind of the ethical dilemma there. Yeah, I mean we

1239
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: all like to do our job, but you know, in

1240
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: the military, you know your job. It's kind of ugly sometimes,

1241
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 1: right for like an assault team, I mean, there's always

1242
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: gonna be some somebody for you to go after, right,

1243
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: but like you're not hoping for like a casualty a

1244
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: p so you can you can be busy, but there's

1245
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: always you know, people you could be chasing if you're

1246
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: an assault tyas so heavily involved in the trauma medicine,

1247
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: but it sounds like also there's some like more long

1248
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: term medicine treatment that you were involved in two over there. Yeah,

1249
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 1: I mean that's the way what. I don't know if

1250
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: this has changed, but when I was in what like

1251
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: pair rescue, and I think a lot of the soft

1252
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: at least prehospital people advertises that they could stabilize the

1253
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: casualty for seventy two hours and then beyond that probably

1254
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 1: need like a higher level of care like a storical

1255
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: capability or something. So you know, just because of the

1256
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 1: theaters that we were in, probably I didn't deploy until

1257
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: I think two thousand seven or eight something like that.

1258
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 1: By then, we've been so established in both the primary

1259
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: theaters of Iraq and Afghanistan that there weren't very long

1260
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: transport time, so there wasn't a whole lot of prolonged care.

1261
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: It was what was the whole thing with the gold

1262
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: what is it, the golden Golden hour, which I mean,

1263
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: like anything, the golden hour is probably the kind of

1264
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: an arbitrary thing, like whether or not, like the hours,

1265
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 1: the magical number doesn't really matter. It's that you want

1266
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: to get people to surgeries as soon as you can,

1267
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: and we have the infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan to

1268
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: do that. Iraq is also more sort of urbanized and

1269
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: more conducive to having shorter transport times. I would imagine

1270
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: the Afghanistan like two thousand one and two, you know,

1271
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: when you have teams flying out of like Uzbekistan or whatever. Now,

1272
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: maybe the prolonged or at least then the prolonged field

1273
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,439
Speaker 1: care was a much more relevant part of the job.

1274
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: But that's where you know, the thing with soft is

1275
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 1: or even the military in general. Whatever is like the

1276
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: hot thing could train for right now, that could change

1277
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 1: very rapidly. So then going to like Africa, where I

1278
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: mean we're responsible for a much greater um area as

1279
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: far as like rescue capability, I mean it's it's almost

1280
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: like half the continent now you could have multi day

1281
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: transport times where you might have to even switch aircraft

1282
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: and go from commercial to civilian and or even a

1283
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: lot of overland stuff, vehicle stuff. So that's where the capability,

1284
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, the prolonged field care capability was much more

1285
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: important was in Africa. And it's like sometimes it's hard

1286
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: to train for all these things because to get really

1287
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: proficient in something like prolonged field care, you probably have

1288
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: to work in like an intensive care unit and do

1289
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: almost like what a what a nurse does. I mean,

1290
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:48,959
Speaker 1: even little things like someone's been laying on a litter

1291
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: for four hours straight, like changing their position, changing their

1292
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: their dressing so they don't get infected. It's stuff that

1293
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 1: you don't think about if your mindset is TE triple

1294
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: C and stopping bleeds. So it's it's a it's a

1295
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: paradium shift for sure, And I mean, a lot of

1296
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: it was done just like learning on the job, because

1297
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: you we just have time to be exposed to those

1298
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: kind of things. That's where having like the medical handbook

1299
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: and medical s ops is really important. Telemedicine, like our

1300
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: flight surgeon in New York was the overall flight surgeon

1301
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: for para rescue. Like when I was in Africa, I

1302
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 1: would I'd call him on a SAT phone and be like, hey,

1303
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: this is what I got going on without revealing you know,

1304
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: like operational security details, and I'd say like medically, what

1305
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: should I do with this person? Or and a lot

1306
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: of times, you know, the flight surgeon is a generalist,

1307
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: not a specialist. Like they might not know if someone

1308
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: has a rare skin skin condition or infectious disease. So

1309
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: then then the flight surgeon calls the infectious disease person

1310
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: in d C. And so having that like good comps

1311
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: is really important because you just you can't know everything. Right. Actually,

1312
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm just reminded me of something, and I'm glad you're

1313
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,919
Speaker 1: here because we got an email. Actually on the last

1314
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: podcast that I tried to answer, I gave like a

1315
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,919
Speaker 1: half as stancwer Um, But what was the question about

1316
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 1: the special operations that there, there's that endeavor and it's

1317
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: a specific unit where they will like basically put surgeons

1318
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: on target. Yeah, so in soft medicine, the key sort

1319
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: of thing they're grappling with is, Okay, we know that

1320
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 1: surgical providers are the definitive treatment for really severe trauma.

1321
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: So it's like, do you want to get the surgeons

1322
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: closer to the objective or do you want to take

1323
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: your pgs eighteen deltas and give them more training on

1324
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: top of what they already have. There's pros and cons

1325
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: to doing it either way, right, because I mean as

1326
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: a PJ and i'd imagine eighteen delta too, like you're

1327
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 1: already so saturated with things that you need to be

1328
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: efficient abilities. But like my sort of bias or opinion

1329
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: is that I think that we should have had less

1330
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: capabilities than more because a lot of times, like what

1331
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: you're advertising, like, yeah, you could do it, but are

1332
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: you really great at it? By the way, I have

1333
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 1: the email if you want to get a more concise

1334
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: answer from Doug here. So originally from Paul carry hay

1335
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: Ian and Jack. I'm a longtime listener of Software Radio

1336
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 1: and a newly certified e M T. I'm working towards

1337
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: going to medical school and want to eventually serve I

1338
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: recently found out about the Special Operations Surgical Team s

1339
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,439
Speaker 1: os T. The information about s os T is very

1340
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: limited online and would love to hear some firsthand experience

1341
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: from members of those teams. UM really interested in learning

1342
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: the selective training, pipeline, types of missions, scope of practice,

1343
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 1: and any other resources to check out. So yeah, that'd

1344
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: be a good question. Yeah. So segueing into that question

1345
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: would be, they're trying to get the surgeons as far

1346
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: forward as possible. So what these surgical teams do is

1347
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: they get as close to the point of injury as

1348
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 1: they can. That's also commensurate with their tactical capability, So

1349
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: they don't I mean yeah, like they might go to

1350
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: like some shooting courses and stuff like that, but you

1351
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: don't want the surgeon or the anesthesiologists right to be

1352
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: like firing rounds on target. So our p A killed

1353
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 1: a guy on target in five really, yes, that's awesome, Um,

1354
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: But also a lot of times like they'll like I

1355
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 1: mentioned I did some CSR deployments. Sometimes the surgical teams

1356
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: might be flying like an airborne alert in a in

1357
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 1: a helicopter and this is like all open source stuff. UM,

1358
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: that's probably as far forward as they as they will get.

1359
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: They you generally don't want to put them on the ground.

1360
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it's something like an like an o

1361
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: r P where you could set up like a triage

1362
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 1: for a huge mission with multiple layers of secure like

1363
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: the bin laden raid or something. Maybe you have an

1364
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 1: MSS right on the border exactly where the surgeon could kill.

1365
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's exactly what they did,

1366
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 1: but that's that seems like something they would probably do.

1367
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: UM where you know, maybe it's a short flight to

1368
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 1: the surgical team. So let's say if you're definitive care

1369
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 1: center is let's say it's like a three hour flight.

1370
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,959
Speaker 1: Rather than having the pre hospital provider or the soft

1371
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 1: medic do that three hours of medical treatment, you might

1372
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: put a step in between where now the soft medic

1373
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 1: or prehospital person is doing an hour or two an

1374
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 1: hour and a half a treatment, but that that extra

1375
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: hour and a half could make the difference between life

1376
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: and death in a lot of cases. So these surgical teams,

1377
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 1: they want to get them as far forward as possible.

1378
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 1: They usually consist of like an e er doctor A,

1379
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 1: a p A more like a trauma oriented p A,

1380
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 1: probably like put you encountered the range of battalion um

1381
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 1: either an anisthesiologist or a certified nurse an esthetists, so

1382
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: basically someone to put the patient to sleep for the

1383
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: surgery UM. And then maybe like this variates like an

1384
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 1: orthopedic surgeon if there's you know, like a blast injury

1385
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: and orthopedic trauma, or maybe more like a general type surgeon.

1386
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: And then there's always like a calm person as well,

1387
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,919
Speaker 1: like just we're not a medical product, just pure communications, right,

1388
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: So usually they're doing a lot of their medical care

1389
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: in like either a fixed wing or rotary ring aircraft,

1390
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 1: not so much on the ground. And if they are

1391
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: doing stuff on the ground, it's probably going to be

1392
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: at more like a FOB or an MSS. The training

1393
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 1: pipeline for it, I don't know who a lot about

1394
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 1: it cause it's it's really selective. I mean, it's like

1395
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: getting into a very upper echelon assault unit, Like they

1396
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: have their own criteria. Obviously you've got to start by

1397
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 1: being a credential surgeon, surgeon, e ER doctor, um, CRNA

1398
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: whatever that can become a surgeon. By the time you

1399
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: make surgeon, you're like, what thirty exactly, Yeah, Um, So

1400
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 1: there's probably I know that you know, for a lot

1401
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 1: of the soft units, there's like a support pipeline where

1402
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: they're not making them do everything physically that like the

1403
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 1: assaulters would do, but they have to do a lot

1404
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: of it. And so you know, depending on how far

1405
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 1: they want to take these medical providers, if you were

1406
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: doing an overland infil these guys need to be in

1407
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: your girls need to be in sufficient enough shape to

1408
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: be able to make that overland movement. So I'm just

1409
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: speculating that there's probably some kind of physical selection, um,

1410
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 1: and then there's going to be like a medical assessment

1411
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: as well. But it's gonna I mean, I think it's

1412
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 1: a noble sort of ambition to have. I would say,

1413
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: just start by getting into medical school, doing really well there,

1414
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 1: and then once if you decided to join the military.

1415
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 1: I doubt there's like a guaranteed pipeline to do this,

1416
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 1: because it's like a guaranteed pipeline to be in a

1417
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,879
Speaker 1: very you know, specialized unit um. And I'm saying specialized

1418
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 1: even above what like a PJ or a seal or

1419
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:21,720
Speaker 1: an SF would be right. So, um, you've got to

1420
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 1: distinguish yourself in your military career to be eligible to

1421
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 1: even try out for that kind of job. But UM,

1422
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: just start, you know, one thing at a time. But

1423
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 1: I think it's a good thing to to look into,

1424
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:33,599
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe to set yourself up for success,

1425
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 1: you might want to, um, you know, gravitate towards more

1426
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 1: like a trauma based specialty. Um, if you have the opportunity,

1427
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, try to get in with like an infantry

1428
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: unit versus like a support unit. And then maybe if

1429
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 1: you're in the army, like a ranger battalion or an

1430
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: SF team would probably be making you a better applicant

1431
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: than if you were with a conventional unit. So just

1432
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: whatever you can do to distinguish yourself, um throughout that

1433
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: pipeline or the process, I would try to do. This

1434
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: also minds me of you know, kind of the flip

1435
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: side of this conversation about you know, the Golden Hour.

1436
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 1: I had this conversation with Rocky far who I believe

1437
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 1: you retire to Chief Warrant Officer five. Um, really interesting guy.

1438
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know or not, Doc far Um.

1439
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: These are Green Beret and I believe you wrote a

1440
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: whole white paper about this topic. He said, we're kind

1441
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 1: of um, I mean, it's all well intentioned, but we've

1442
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 1: kind of screwed ourselves with the notion of the golden

1443
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: hour because in the future, um or even today, are

1444
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 1: special operations guys who have to work in an unconventional

1445
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 1: warfare environment. They're not going to have all that infrastructure

1446
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: built up that you were just mentioned. You might have

1447
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: to treat your casualty for five days in a barn.

1448
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 1: You know that that could very well be the case

1449
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: in the future. And that's the difficult part about training.

1450
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 1: It's like what do you prioritize because it's always the

1451
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 1: missions are always changing. But I mean, if you read

1452
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:56,640
Speaker 1: the unclassified National Defense Strategy, like the biggest threats that

1453
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 1: they name are not these nonstate actors. It's like these

1454
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, cyber warfare and China and Russian all these things.

1455
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: And if I mean, I hope that we can avoid

1456
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: any kind of armed conflict with you know, countries like

1457
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 1: that that are like like legitimate, like military right, but uh,

1458
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: you're not gonna have seventy two or you know, one

1459
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 1: hour transports and one hour to a medical facility early

1460
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 1: on in most type of campaigns, right, so, or even

1461
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:20,719
Speaker 1: some of the things that we're doing like in Africa

1462
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 1: or wherever. So, Um, yeah, it's it's I mean, I

1463
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,640
Speaker 1: think you should always train to what's what's gonna be

1464
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: the most that's asked of you. Now that can come

1465
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,680
Speaker 1: at a cost, because now it's like you could you

1466
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 1: could justify, Okay, well we're gonna do free fall training

1467
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 1: every day when you're not likely to use it. But

1468
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean, if you can treat somebody for seventy two hours,

1469
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 1: you can treat somebody for one hour, right, Um, So

1470
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: you know it's a little bit of different skill set.

1471
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: But like somebody who works in an I. S U

1472
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 1: Is probably comfortable putting a tourniquet on somebody and stopping

1473
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: a bleed and intubating somebody. Uh where medicine is really

1474
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,720
Speaker 1: tricky as some of this prolonged field care and more

1475
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: of these medical type situations, because trauma is really what

1476
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: you see is what you get. Um, Like, something is bleeding,

1477
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:03,560
Speaker 1: you stop the bleeding. Someone can't breathe, you instart a

1478
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 1: hole for them to breathe. But where you know when

1479
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: some of these like multiple systems start to interact, you know,

1480
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 1: twenty four hours after a trauma, where now you've got

1481
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 1: to measure things like you're an output and you know

1482
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 1: different um like levels of pH and the blood to

1483
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 1: make sure someone's not going into shock and all these things.

1484
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:21,759
Speaker 1: That's where you really need that expertise. But it's difficult

1485
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: to do that when you have to shoot, do tactics,

1486
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: do mountaineering, you know, scuba dive. It's like a lot

1487
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 1: of trial and error is gonna It's gonna take a

1488
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: lot of trial and r to figure out what the

1489
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: right balance is. Yeah, I feel like a lot of

1490
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 1: people don't understand that, like the amount of responsibilities and

1491
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 1: the amount of skills that these guys are supposed to

1492
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: be a percent perficient on at all times. I mean,

1493
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 1: a special Forces medic has to have all his medical training, um,

1494
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 1: his refreshers. Maybe he's a qualified sniper, so he has

1495
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 1: to go and do the sniper refresher course. Uh maybe

1496
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 1: he is, um, you know, the eighteen fox, So he

1497
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 1: has to do the intelligence stuff. Um he has to

1498
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: you know, know, his source handling and all that other

1499
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: kind of jazz. I mean's and then and then the

1500
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 1: infiltration techniques. Uh, you know, like our team was a

1501
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 1: free fall team, so we had to know how to

1502
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,559
Speaker 1: do that. I mean, it's just incredible the amount of

1503
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: stuff that you're inevitably something has to fall by the wayside,

1504
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: like especially with all the other bureaucratic crap that's dumped

1505
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: on you, like something to give at a certain point. Yeah,

1506
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 1: and that's where it's like language capabilities, Yeah, what do

1507
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: you what do you prioritize? And I think people tend

1508
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,679
Speaker 1: to put the military and especially like special operations community

1509
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,880
Speaker 1: on the pedestal. And you know, we would go to

1510
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 1: like civilian drop zones to jump one time a couple

1511
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:37,879
Speaker 1: of times, and like you're wearing like your cry uniform,

1512
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 1: and I think that the civilian population has this perception

1513
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 1: that like because when we were in cries and we're

1514
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 1: scuba diving or Scott having a we're the best Scott

1515
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 1: hovers that drop zone. But I'm like not even that.

1516
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: Like Stoner dude who's skyd having like ten times a day,

1517
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,680
Speaker 1: Like he's a way better skytiver than me. Like you mean,

1518
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 1: you've you've got to be able to skydive safely, land

1519
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 1: on your on the drop zone with your team so

1520
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:01,559
Speaker 1: you can do your actual omission. So it's like he's

1521
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 1: got to figure out what's the what's the good enough

1522
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 1: standard where like you're safe to do something. Um, I

1523
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: don't think you need to skydive ten times a day

1524
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: to be able to do that, right, But it's I

1525
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 1: think it's harder with medicine because probably more than once

1526
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 1: every six months. Yeah, and with with medicine, medicine is

1527
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 1: even harder because I mean, there you know there were

1528
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:22,719
Speaker 1: times when like I went months without treating a patient

1529
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: or even doing like a simulation. Right. And then usually

1530
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:27,720
Speaker 1: before we deployment, when you know you're going to be

1531
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: called to do these things, you ramp up your training.

1532
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:31,839
Speaker 1: But like if you're on the hook for a civilian

1533
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:34,680
Speaker 1: mission and you haven't intubated somebody in four months and

1534
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 1: now you've got to do it in dark helicopter, like,

1535
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 1: that's that's pretty stressful. So um, And like you said,

1536
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: there's so many additional bureaucratic constraints and requirements that are

1537
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 1: thrown on top of the actual training that it can

1538
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 1: make it very difficult to be truly prepared, right. Um.

1539
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 1: So it's something I think's gonna struggle with pretty much

1540
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 1: forever because You're you're the ultimate like generalist. But that's

1541
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 1: what makes you unique is that you're like you're you're

1542
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: providing medical care in a place that a surgeon doesn't

1543
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 1: the capability or maybe the desire to go to. But

1544
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 1: that comes at a cost where you're not you're not

1545
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 1: providing that same medical capability, but you're the only one

1546
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: is willing to do it, right. Yeah, I just kind

1547
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 1: of like giggle at it when I see like some

1548
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 1: of the things they're trying to do, This whole idea

1549
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:16,439
Speaker 1: that like the future of SF is going to be,

1550
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, two green Berets camped out in a safe

1551
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 1: house with laptops doing cyber warfare and running sources and

1552
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 1: do and like, dude, none of that's gonna happen. Come on, man,

1553
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: Like you can't dump all of this stuff on one

1554
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:31,599
Speaker 1: force and just expect them to be able to do everything.

1555
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 1: Like Jason Bourne is not a real person. Yeah, I mean,

1556
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:36,720
Speaker 1: if you want that, just develop the artificial intelligence and

1557
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:40,640
Speaker 1: replaces with robots, because that's that's I think that too

1558
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 1: much is asked up stuff, especially especially O D A S.

1559
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:48,759
Speaker 1: I mean, doing like ground level diplomacy, having minimal support,

1560
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:51,080
Speaker 1: like you don't know who you can trust. It's our

1561
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,679
Speaker 1: own fault too, because we sell ourselves that way because

1562
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 1: we want to, like you said, we want to keep

1563
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 1: ourselves relevant. Like Navy seals on paper, there are proficient

1564
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 1: at all of these different things, but in reality, well

1565
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 1: they're probably proficient on a couple of those things. But

1566
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 1: it's who know. I mean, like, and you want to

1567
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 1: do war on the cheap these days, so like soft

1568
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 1: is the answer to everything, um, and you and I

1569
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 1: both thought that it's not right. So it's like a

1570
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff is dictated by strategically, what are

1571
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: you trying to achieve? And I think that you know,

1572
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 1: seft on a tactical level, like no one does it

1573
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 1: better on a tactical level. But if strategically, which is

1574
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 1: that's determined outside the military. If you if you're like

1575
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 1: trying to engage in you know, like anywhere there's a terrorist,

1576
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna you can justify setting a soft unit. After

1577
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: a while and it's already happened. You're gonna be stretched

1578
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 1: too thin. And now now how do you how do

1579
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 1: you cultivate all these abilities if you're constantly deployed too,

1580
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: because you're not you can't really train when you're deployed.

1581
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: If you're doing the missions, I mean, you're only doing

1582
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: what you're exposed to, Like you you can't develop these

1583
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 1: new capabilities, so um, none of the stuff exists in

1584
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 1: a vacuum of Like, if you're strategic objectives don't marry

1585
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,679
Speaker 1: with tactically what you want to do, then there's always

1586
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 1: gonna be this disconnect. And I think that's kind of

1587
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 1: where we are now, where it's just like people are

1588
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:06,600
Speaker 1: asking way too much of soft, and part of it,

1589
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:09,120
Speaker 1: like you said, his soft's own fault. Part of it,

1590
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: I think is that divide between the civilian population and

1591
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 1: the military, where soft is put on too much of

1592
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 1: a pedestal. And I think that we people like who

1593
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: used to be in the community could do a better

1594
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: job of like like these are regular people. Yeah, yeah, exactly, Like, Hey,

1595
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 1: this dude has been deployed fifteen times, Like he needs

1596
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: some time with his family. Now, you know, it's a

1597
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 1: UM on the conventional side to um, there's some truth

1598
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 1: to it that an increasingly smaller and smaller segment of

1599
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: our population is being expected to shoulder so much of

1600
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: the burden. I mean, I was one of the lucky ones.

1601
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:45,640
Speaker 1: You know, I deployed three times. You gotta do some

1602
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:47,599
Speaker 1: cool stuff in the military. I was a single guy.

1603
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:49,720
Speaker 1: I think about the guy who stayed in he got

1604
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 1: married and had kids and he's still in the soft

1605
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: community today. So deploying over and over and over and

1606
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 1: over again, I mean, is again something has to give. Yeah,

1607
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 1: I mean I've heard of like like a sick and

1608
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 1: airborne during interacting, like eighteen month deployments, Like that's absolutely insane. Yeah, yeah,

1609
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what they were doing in like World

1610
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:10,800
Speaker 1: War I mean I've watched like civil war documentaries where

1611
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 1: it's like your your deployment is the length of the war,

1612
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: Like you don't get to go home. But in two thousand,

1613
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, nineteen should we be having eighteen month deployments? Like,

1614
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:21,559
Speaker 1: I just don't know how sustainable it is. In World

1615
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 1: War Two, I mean, you got drafted and you're in

1616
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 1: for like a year, you saw some ship, but then

1617
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 1: it was over, you know, you went home. Yeah, and

1618
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:30,680
Speaker 1: for the strategic return that we get, right, it's one

1619
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 1: thing you for like literally saving the world. But it's

1620
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 1: like you can make a case that if we did

1621
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 1: a lot less, the world wouldn't be that much different.

1622
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, um, so just shifting gears again a little bit.

1623
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 1: I want to talk about, Um, you know you're going

1624
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:48,840
Speaker 1: to Columbia, you continue to further your own education and

1625
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:53,519
Speaker 1: stay in the I mean, are you I'm done there now, right,

1626
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 1: But I mean your degree was it sports physiology, physical therapy,

1627
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 1: physical therapy? Yeah, so what made you decide you want

1628
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 1: kind of um the part with the military and pursue

1629
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:08,559
Speaker 1: you know, the sports therapy. Yeah. So, like I said,

1630
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:10,640
Speaker 1: when I was prior to pair rescue, I was like

1631
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:12,599
Speaker 1: thinking about going to medical school, and I was pretty

1632
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: deep into the process. Even at that time, I thought

1633
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: I wanted to do primary care and non surgical sports medicine.

1634
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 1: Is I always liked sports and was active and then

1635
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:23,519
Speaker 1: then obviously changed when I joined the Air Force, So

1636
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 1: I know I wanted to get back into that field

1637
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 1: in some capacity. And the nice thing about having gone

1638
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 1: through that pair rescue experience was you work a lot

1639
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: in hospitals, get a lot of actual medical experience, and

1640
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 1: it made me realize that like probably I didn't like

1641
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 1: I didn't like the hospital based setting, which is more

1642
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:41,759
Speaker 1: of what you would get if you'd gone to medical

1643
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 1: school and became a physician. It's to me, it's just

1644
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 1: much more like sort of sterile environment. I like the

1645
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:50,320
Speaker 1: more active environment. I mean, if you googled physical therapy,

1646
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 1: you would see things that weren't too like invigorating, but

1647
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,080
Speaker 1: at least at least like as a physical therapist, I

1648
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:57,759
Speaker 1: felt like I can kind of shape how I wanted

1649
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 1: to deliver that care and do you know, more focus

1650
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,680
Speaker 1: on preventative things and a more active population less of

1651
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 1: like a medicalized or pathologized population. Like for the most part,

1652
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 1: I deal with generally healthy people who have more of

1653
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 1: a performance related goal. And I'm I mean, I have

1654
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:16,720
Speaker 1: the utmost respect for people who work with more like debilitated,

1655
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:19,679
Speaker 1: uh you know, unhealthy population. But just if I'm gonna

1656
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:21,679
Speaker 1: do something every day I want to, you know, that's

1657
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 1: it was a better fit for me. So I mean,

1658
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 1: even physical therapy, it's like there's probably not a single

1659
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:29,560
Speaker 1: profession that totally conforms to what I want to do

1660
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:31,120
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis. So it's kind of

1661
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 1: a compromise, like this is the least worst fit. And

1662
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 1: then you know it's a cost benefit calculation between like well,

1663
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 1: I can go to school for three years, so I

1664
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:40,599
Speaker 1: can go to school for eight years, and then it's

1665
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:42,640
Speaker 1: like I can go to school for three years with

1666
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 1: physical therapy still have a good degree of professional autonomy,

1667
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: good earning potential if you know how to you know,

1668
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 1: manage the business side of things. So and I was

1669
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:54,280
Speaker 1: like thirty years old when I wanted to like leave

1670
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: the military full time and switch gears. So three years

1671
01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 1: seemed like a better better deal at that point than

1672
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:01,479
Speaker 1: eight years, which is what it would have taken to

1673
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 1: do primary care sports as a physician. UM. And I

1674
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 1: like the more like the exercise aspect of it more

1675
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 1: than like doing injections and the surgeries and the more

1676
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 1: invasive things. So physical therapy as a whole is more

1677
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:16,800
Speaker 1: like exercise based than like what like a primary care

1678
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 1: sports medicine physician would be. So uh yeah, I mean

1679
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:21,640
Speaker 1: I went to school for it was graduate school for

1680
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 1: three years at Columbia, and then deployed UM and then

1681
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 1: ended up sort of like by accident, starting my own practice.

1682
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:31,960
Speaker 1: I had no idea what I was doing. You don't

1683
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 1: get any business uh to lege your mentorship when you're

1684
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:37,120
Speaker 1: in physical therapy school, or you can get like an

1685
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 1: hour of it, um, but maybe from the military. I was.

1686
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 1: I was kind of like tired of working for so

1687
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:45,680
Speaker 1: many different people that I just want to do my

1688
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 1: own thing and be independent. And when you come out

1689
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 1: of that background, to you like think you can do anything,

1690
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 1: like well I did think that and I was totally wrong.

1691
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:57,679
Speaker 1: Um and I got I mean, I got my ass kicked,

1692
01:20:57,720 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 1: and I learned a lot of hard that what happens

1693
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 1: sometimes like the best way to do something is just

1694
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 1: to immerse yourself in it and not be prepared. I mean,

1695
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 1: I was lucky because I had but you know, when

1696
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:10,040
Speaker 1: you're in the military, you don't spend any money, so

1697
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 1: I had a lot of money saved up. The g

1698
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 1: I Bill paid for my graduate school. I didn't join

1699
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 1: the military with the intention of, like I'm doing this

1700
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 1: to get money for grad school, because I wasn't even

1701
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: sure if I wanted to do it at that point.

1702
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 1: But the post nine eleven g I Bill was a

1703
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:27,240
Speaker 1: nice benefit that made it easier for me to take

1704
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 1: on some of these professional risks when I graduated, because

1705
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:32,479
Speaker 1: I have classmates who were like two in grand in

1706
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:37,320
Speaker 1: debt between undergrad and grad school, and like effectively with

1707
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 1: the Yellow Ribbon program, like I got paid to go

1708
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:42,800
Speaker 1: to school, which is which is awesome. And then when

1709
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 1: I wasn't in school, I was doing the PGA thing

1710
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 1: and then getting paid that way. So it wasn't as

1711
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:49,280
Speaker 1: much of a burden for me or a risk to

1712
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:51,640
Speaker 1: like start my own practice. I could get away with

1713
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:55,439
Speaker 1: not making not making that much money initially, and like

1714
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:57,240
Speaker 1: if I if I wasn't making any money, I could

1715
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,800
Speaker 1: always just like sign up for you know, to get

1716
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:02,679
Speaker 1: on on orders with my guard unit and then support

1717
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 1: myself that way. So I was lucky that a lot

1718
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 1: of kind of stars aligne that made my professional incompetence

1719
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 1: less sort of costly, you know, but I mean it

1720
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 1: worked out. And it's one of those things where that's

1721
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 1: why learning experience. Yeah, you read these business books or

1722
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 1: whatever and people try to like reverse engineer their success

1723
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,599
Speaker 1: and like, well, like if you do these things, then

1724
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 1: this will happen, and like that's complete bullshit. There's no

1725
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:27,400
Speaker 1: way that you can predict some of this stuff. There's

1726
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 1: so much luck involved in so many variables that have

1727
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 1: to sort of align for people to be successful. And

1728
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:34,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not where I want to be, but

1729
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:36,280
Speaker 1: I'm lucky that some of those things have happened. And

1730
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,280
Speaker 1: I'm kind of on the right trajectory. But looking looking

1731
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 1: at the website itself, which is Resilient Performance dot com,

1732
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,320
Speaker 1: you're doing a lot more than just one thing. I mean,

1733
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:50,760
Speaker 1: looking at the different tabs on the website, it's sports medicine, performance, training, education,

1734
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:55,599
Speaker 1: and consulting. So it's it's more than just physical therapy,

1735
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 1: as you were saying, and it's very active. Yeah, that's

1736
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: the thing with any this is like what's your identity

1737
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 1: going to be? And I've got my day to day

1738
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 1: like clinical treatment, um, which is great, but I'm kind

1739
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:09,840
Speaker 1: of at the point now where like when And this

1740
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 1: is one of the things too. When you get paid

1741
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 1: by the hour, you're incentivized to work a lot more

1742
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 1: than you normally will. Like if I was on a

1743
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:18,800
Speaker 1: salary job working for somebody else, I would take every

1744
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 1: single vacation day that I was allotted. If you told me,

1745
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:23,680
Speaker 1: like you've got to be here between you know, eight

1746
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 1: in the morning and five at night, like I probably

1747
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 1: leave it five, right, But when you're you're getting paid

1748
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 1: by the hour, it's like, well, you know, it's what's

1749
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 1: what's another hour? And then next thing you know, it's

1750
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:34,720
Speaker 1: nine pm and you're like you're storting, you're going home

1751
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 1: when you got there at seven or eight. So I've

1752
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:39,880
Speaker 1: got to learn how to kind of like scale things

1753
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 1: and dial to dial back a little bit. Where the

1754
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:44,760
Speaker 1: answer isn't just to keep working more, but so having

1755
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: like the multiple streams where like we do some consulting,

1756
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:51,720
Speaker 1: we do some online education, and then even with like

1757
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: physical therapy people, most people are coming in, especially if

1758
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:57,560
Speaker 1: they're like somewhat athletic, if your goal is to you

1759
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: want to get ready for like a ski trip or

1760
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 1: whatever you want to get ready to. Even if you're

1761
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:05,120
Speaker 1: like an operator, right like doing a bunch of isolated,

1762
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 1: banned physical therapy exercise is not going to prepare you

1763
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 1: for those things. That's why I like, I don't really

1764
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:14,360
Speaker 1: see much of a differentiation between like fitness development or

1765
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: performance training and physical therapy because the bottom line as

1766
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: you're prepared to or not. And that's where I think,

1767
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 1: having come from the military background, influence my clinical thinking,

1768
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:25,519
Speaker 1: where it's like you you need to be truly prepared.

1769
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:28,000
Speaker 1: There's no false confidence, and a lot of people will

1770
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 1: succeed medically in spite of what you do. But I

1771
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:32,600
Speaker 1: don't like that. I was uncomfortable with the idea of

1772
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,200
Speaker 1: somebody coming to me with like a higher level movement

1773
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 1: or performance related goal and having them leave not being

1774
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:40,840
Speaker 1: truly prepared and confident in that. So that's where, like,

1775
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, we say it's like performance training, but to me,

1776
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: the distinction between physical therapy and fitness training is totally arbitrary.

1777
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:50,600
Speaker 1: It's like, you're ready for your goal, you're not. The

1778
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:52,880
Speaker 1: difference in the physical therapy setting is that a lot

1779
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 1: of times people are coming in with an injury or pain,

1780
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 1: So that might change what you do initially, but it

1781
01:24:58,200 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 1: shouldn't change what you do once you get closer to

1782
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 1: that person's goal. Because let's say you have like a

1783
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:06,679
Speaker 1: football player who's coming off an a c L surgery,

1784
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:08,920
Speaker 1: like they tore ligament in their knee. Well, yeah, the

1785
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 1: day after their surgery, when they're like immobilized and they

1786
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 1: have all the swelling, maybe all you can do with

1787
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:16,160
Speaker 1: that person is just like been their need a little

1788
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:18,880
Speaker 1: bit to get range of motion back. But seven months later,

1789
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:21,640
Speaker 1: when they're about to play football again, you need to

1790
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 1: do things that look like football, right, So how do

1791
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 1: you say, like, okay, well now we're we're still doing

1792
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 1: physical therapy, like at that point, your rehabilitation is scrimmaging,

1793
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:33,560
Speaker 1: it's sprinting, it's changing direction rapidly. UM. So there's no

1794
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:36,519
Speaker 1: one sort of school of thought or profession that like

1795
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 1: owns preparation. It's like, just do what it takes to

1796
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: um to get the job done. But you know, when

1797
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:47,880
Speaker 1: you have medical insurance and regulation and governing bodies, they

1798
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:50,880
Speaker 1: create these arbitrary definitions like well, this profession should do this,

1799
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 1: and this should this, one should do this, and a

1800
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:55,280
Speaker 1: lot of times those sort of systemic things getting the

1801
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:57,720
Speaker 1: way of what you can achieve with people. But a

1802
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 1: lot I'm lucky enough that my practice is it's out

1803
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:04,640
Speaker 1: of network with insurance, which means that it limits who

1804
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 1: I can see obviously, but I'm not as constrained by

1805
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:09,719
Speaker 1: like that some of the parameters that an insurance company

1806
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 1: imposes from a treatment standpoint, I can see each patient

1807
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 1: for an hour, you know, for every session, and that

1808
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: allows me to see them a lot less than maybe

1809
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:19,720
Speaker 1: they would normally go in and kind of save them

1810
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 1: time ultimately, but it also allows me to just pretty

1811
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:24,479
Speaker 1: much do what I want for the most part, without

1812
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:26,479
Speaker 1: having to dictate, you know, having it dictated by like

1813
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:29,599
Speaker 1: an insurance company. The Bilding code, So you know that's

1814
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 1: where all these things fit together. Strategically and micro level,

1815
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 1: we can talk about like soft and how they want

1816
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:39,760
Speaker 1: to expand their capabilities because strategically they're probably being overutilized.

1817
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 1: Like medicine doesn't exist in a vacuum. You have these

1818
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:44,760
Speaker 1: systemic and these healthcare and things that that are that

1819
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:47,519
Speaker 1: are that are influencing how medical care is being delivered.

1820
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 1: So it's not just like about what's best medically for

1821
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 1: the person, it's about, well, what's best medically with all

1822
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:55,639
Speaker 1: the constraints that you have from the outside. So it's

1823
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:58,000
Speaker 1: it's all the same. That's what we're talking about. Like before,

1824
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:01,639
Speaker 1: it's people aren't solving unique problem. Like everyone's got constraints

1825
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 1: that they operate on or they have to make the

1826
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 1: best that I've often a bad situation. One of the

1827
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,200
Speaker 1: things I did want to ask you about is I

1828
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong, but I get the sense that you

1829
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 1: have a bit of a different approach to physical fitness

1830
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:14,400
Speaker 1: than a lot of this stuff. And there's a lot

1831
01:27:14,439 --> 01:27:16,320
Speaker 1: of bullshit out there if you go looking for it

1832
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:18,840
Speaker 1: um or or even if you go looking for good

1833
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 1: health advice, good physical fitness advice. There's a lot of

1834
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:23,760
Speaker 1: bs out there, uh, And I sense that you have

1835
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:26,479
Speaker 1: a really like down or earth kind of perspective on it.

1836
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 1: And I don't know if there's like if the right

1837
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 1: question is to ask about like your philosophy towards physical

1838
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,760
Speaker 1: fitness or um, maybe what you think about some of

1839
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 1: the directions it's going in right now or where it

1840
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 1: should be going. But um, I was wondering, because I

1841
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 1: think you're a pretty smart guy on this subject. I

1842
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:45,920
Speaker 1: was wondering if you could you know, share some thoughts. Great,

1843
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:49,840
Speaker 1: that's a great question. Um. Yeah. I mean ultimately it

1844
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 1: should be about as a professional, like you always want

1845
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 1: to show people how much you know and you always

1846
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:56,560
Speaker 1: want to be the reason why somebody succeeds. But that

1847
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:59,360
Speaker 1: can get you in trouble because you like physical therapists

1848
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: care about things, is that their patients and their athletes

1849
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,680
Speaker 1: don't often care about. So it has to start with,

1850
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,320
Speaker 1: first of all, like what's the person's goal, Because if

1851
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:10,680
Speaker 1: it's a sixty year old person who just wants to

1852
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:13,160
Speaker 1: be able to cross the street without the countdown on

1853
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:15,800
Speaker 1: the you know, clock expiring, or and to be able

1854
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 1: to pick up their grandkids without the running out their back.

1855
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:20,479
Speaker 1: They don't need to do like power cleans, you know what.

1856
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 1: So um, it's it's got to be about like the

1857
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:25,600
Speaker 1: person and not about you. A lot of people like,

1858
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:28,160
Speaker 1: because they've done things a certain way, they expect everyone

1859
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:30,439
Speaker 1: else to enjoy the same thing. So it's got to

1860
01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:33,880
Speaker 1: be sort of like patient or patient or athletes centric um,

1861
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 1: and then figure out what their what their goal is,

1862
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 1: and figure out like how to how to physically slightly

1863
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 1: over prepare them. Right, So, if you're talking about like

1864
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:46,880
Speaker 1: a like a soft operator, there's this whole tactical fitness

1865
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,720
Speaker 1: movement where it's like there's this perception that to be

1866
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 1: in soft you have to be this like elite athlete

1867
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:55,519
Speaker 1: who is like a borderline Olympian or a cross fit

1868
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 1: Games champion. And I know plenty of people who are

1869
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:00,680
Speaker 1: great operators. I was like way fitter than but they

1870
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:03,439
Speaker 1: were more competent than me on a mission. So like,

1871
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 1: there's only it only takes you so far. It's like

1872
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,320
Speaker 1: the Kenny Powers thing. I'm I'm trying I play real sports.

1873
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be the best of exercising. He's

1874
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:15,439
Speaker 1: founded down. It's one of the just bizarre, most bizarre

1875
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: things I've seen is UM taking the train through Irvington,

1876
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: New York, which is like one of the most yuppie

1877
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 1: towns in Westchester County. I grew up in the next

1878
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:27,080
Speaker 1: town over, and there's a big CrossFit gym right there. Um.

1879
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:29,600
Speaker 1: And as I'm we're going past in the on the

1880
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:32,320
Speaker 1: Metro North, I see all these dudes coming out of

1881
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 1: the CrossFit gym and they're like doing windsprints, wearing fucking

1882
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 1: like cry precision plate carriers. I'm like, where am I

1883
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:42,080
Speaker 1: right now? Like the weirdest thing. But anyway, police continue, No,

1884
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 1: I mean and and And that's you know, if people

1885
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:46,360
Speaker 1: enjoy that. Like, it's not my place to tell somebody

1886
01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:49,720
Speaker 1: what they should shouldn't do, But it's if you're talking about, like,

1887
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:52,360
Speaker 1: let's say, like an athlete in the abstract, it's how

1888
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 1: do you slightly over prepare them for what they need

1889
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 1: to do. So if you if the most physically demanding

1890
01:29:57,040 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 1: thing you're gonna have to do on a mission and

1891
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:02,759
Speaker 1: SAFT is like, say, walk fifteen miles through adverse terrain,

1892
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:05,639
Speaker 1: well you don't need to be a professional ultra marathon

1893
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:07,600
Speaker 1: or to do that. But if all you can do

1894
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 1: is walk fifteen miles through adverse terrain at a certain clip,

1895
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 1: and like you're totally I mean, that's a percent of

1896
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:16,640
Speaker 1: what you can do. Now when you get to the objective,

1897
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:18,759
Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to perform because you've already

1898
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:22,200
Speaker 1: basically expanded yourself. So the idea is to figure out,

1899
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:23,600
Speaker 1: like what do people need to be able to do

1900
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 1: for their life or their goal, and then give them

1901
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 1: a little bit more of what they need, whether it's

1902
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:31,200
Speaker 1: like strength or endurance or speed or flexibility. But like

1903
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:34,679
Speaker 1: you know, to be a soft you know, an operator,

1904
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 1: you don't need to be a circus of late performer

1905
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:39,559
Speaker 1: from a mobility standpoint, so like yeah, it's good like stretch,

1906
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 1: get more mobile, but you don't need to do a split.

1907
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:44,560
Speaker 1: So a lot of times people chase these sort of

1908
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 1: arbitrary standards where they get emotionally attached to certain exercises

1909
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:51,760
Speaker 1: or ways of training. So like if you're if you're

1910
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 1: in the military, if you like to do Olympic lifts,

1911
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:56,000
Speaker 1: like that's great, but you don't need to do them.

1912
01:30:56,439 --> 01:31:00,200
Speaker 1: You don't need to do like barbell back squad. It's

1913
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:01,560
Speaker 1: like I like some of that stuff and I do

1914
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 1: with a lot of people, But there's every exercise is

1915
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:06,840
Speaker 1: means to an end. It's kind of like saying, you

1916
01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: know what's the best, Like, if you want to shoot,

1917
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 1: you have to use this one optic, Like you should

1918
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 1: be able to shoot iron sights, and if you can't

1919
01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:16,000
Speaker 1: do that, there's a lot of optics that work pretty well.

1920
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:18,880
Speaker 1: So are you a big proponent of combat focus PT?

1921
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:20,960
Speaker 1: I mean that's what we called it back in the day. Anyway,

1922
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: I I think that people should be able to do

1923
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:26,720
Speaker 1: whatever they want once they're selected, and as long as

1924
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:31,519
Speaker 1: they're performing on the job, um that they shouldn't be

1925
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: held to these kind of communal type standards. But what

1926
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:36,840
Speaker 1: I mean as far as like you're even if you're

1927
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 1: doing PT on your own, I mean, it is what's

1928
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 1: the UM, I don't know, preferred method? Oh um, well,

1929
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:46,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about like in the in the military. I mean,

1930
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:48,599
Speaker 1: you've got to be kind of like a little good

1931
01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 1: and everything, but not great at anything. So my my

1932
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:55,439
Speaker 1: template for probably like the average like military person or

1933
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 1: like even law enforcement would be I'd probably do some

1934
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:00,640
Speaker 1: kind of like strength training two days a week. I

1935
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:04,040
Speaker 1: alwould do something that's more like speed oriented one day

1936
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:06,600
Speaker 1: a week, maybe like not like all out sprinting like

1937
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:08,639
Speaker 1: a track athlete, but something we're just moving a little

1938
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:11,439
Speaker 1: bit faster. Um, one day a week, I might do

1939
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 1: something that's more like a locomotion driven so like a

1940
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 1: rock or like walking on a treadmill with a pack,

1941
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,240
Speaker 1: or pushing or pulling a sled, that kind of thing,

1942
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:23,400
Speaker 1: because that has a lot of transferred to like you

1943
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:24,720
Speaker 1: know what what you would do if you were like

1944
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 1: in the military or in a law enforcement or fire

1945
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:29,519
Speaker 1: type job. And then maybe like one day of just

1946
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:32,560
Speaker 1: like more of a low impact cardio type thing. Like

1947
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:35,400
Speaker 1: it's it's way more simple than what most people would

1948
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 1: make it. Um, everything now is about like a tension

1949
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:42,040
Speaker 1: and with like Instagram and social media, like the basics

1950
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:44,720
Speaker 1: don't really sell that well, but the basics go a

1951
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:47,759
Speaker 1: long way. Just like in shooting or any other military discipline,

1952
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 1: so just really basic web gear and a rifle that

1953
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:53,599
Speaker 1: doesn't have all this crap on it. Yeah, the other

1954
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:57,000
Speaker 1: key principles like risk rewards. So if you can achieve

1955
01:32:57,200 --> 01:33:00,760
Speaker 1: the same endpoint by doing something that's less an cprently risky, like,

1956
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:02,400
Speaker 1: then why would you do something it's more risky and

1957
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:04,760
Speaker 1: has more potential for harm? So like a lot of

1958
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 1: what we see now in the training in the fitness

1959
01:33:07,200 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 1: spaces stuff that it's like, first of all, they had

1960
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 1: like a freak of an athlete who's doing something that

1961
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:13,320
Speaker 1: none of us could do, no matter how much that

1962
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:15,880
Speaker 1: we trained, And they're doing things like, yeah, you might

1963
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:18,400
Speaker 1: get stronger doing that, but you can get stronger doing

1964
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:21,519
Speaker 1: something that's way less risky too. So, just like in

1965
01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:24,560
Speaker 1: the military and not a unique question, physical therapy and

1966
01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:27,800
Speaker 1: fitness training is really just risk mitigation because to to

1967
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 1: get the adaptation you want from the body, you have

1968
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:32,479
Speaker 1: to stress the body, otherwise you won't you won't grow

1969
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:35,599
Speaker 1: and develop. But at the same time, like it's almost

1970
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:37,560
Speaker 1: like the immune system. You want to give someone a

1971
01:33:37,600 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 1: little bit of a vaccine, but you want to give

1972
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:41,400
Speaker 1: them a disease because then they get the disease, right, So,

1973
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:43,640
Speaker 1: and we want our operators to be able to have

1974
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:46,200
Speaker 1: a twenty year career if they choose, you know, we

1975
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:49,680
Speaker 1: want that longevity. Yeah, And there's data showing even from

1976
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:53,160
Speaker 1: Journal of Special Operations Medicine, which is like basically a

1977
01:33:53,240 --> 01:33:56,800
Speaker 1: medical journal put out by SOCOM. This is maybe data

1978
01:33:56,840 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 1: from the last ten years that they studied the arm

1979
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 1: SF population and found that over three quarters of the

1980
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:06,640
Speaker 1: injuries that kept the operators off status were deemed to

1981
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:10,080
Speaker 1: be preventable, not like you're jumping out of a doing

1982
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:12,360
Speaker 1: a stack line jump and you sprain your ankle at night,

1983
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:14,680
Speaker 1: which that's like an inherent risk of the job, no

1984
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:16,920
Speaker 1: matter how well prepared you are. That's happened to all

1985
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:19,840
Speaker 1: of us. It's not guys getting shot on target. It

1986
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:22,400
Speaker 1: was basically people doing like dumb things and their personal

1987
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:26,519
Speaker 1: PT program. So if longevity is the impetus for a

1988
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:28,760
Speaker 1: lot of these movements, you can almost make a case

1989
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:31,960
Speaker 1: that a lot of military folks we be better off

1990
01:34:32,320 --> 01:34:34,040
Speaker 1: not doing anything in the gym and just doing their

1991
01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:36,439
Speaker 1: job training and they would be healthier and probably better

1992
01:34:36,479 --> 01:34:38,600
Speaker 1: prepared for their job than if they were doing some

1993
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:40,720
Speaker 1: of these workouts. It's like, no one wants to hear that.

1994
01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 1: It sounds crazy, but that's so that's been the impetus

1995
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:45,360
Speaker 1: for a lot of these like human performance programs. And

1996
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:47,639
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, like any of the military

1997
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:50,640
Speaker 1: is almost overreacted. They're they're spending so much money on

1998
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:52,880
Speaker 1: this stuff now when it doesn't need to be that hard.

1999
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:55,120
Speaker 1: But I think it's a well intentioned movement. Like, yes,

2000
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:57,760
Speaker 1: getting a strength coach and a physical therapist at these

2001
01:34:57,800 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 1: soft units is ultimately a good thing. Um, But then

2002
01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:03,880
Speaker 1: it's still an issue with like are are they being utilized?

2003
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 1: And so you know, operators are stubborn people and they

2004
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:09,280
Speaker 1: often want to do things that like quote unquote work

2005
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:11,920
Speaker 1: for them, but oftentimes what works for them is not

2006
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 1: what they think work works for them. So it could

2007
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:18,639
Speaker 1: be it could be tough. That's no, it's very interesting. Um.

2008
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:21,479
Speaker 1: So you think that it's actually much more basic and

2009
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:24,280
Speaker 1: much more simple than what we make it out to be. Totally. Yeah,

2010
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 1: I mean a couple of like really basic movements because

2011
01:35:28,160 --> 01:35:32,519
Speaker 1: within any exercise program, like whether you do a front squad,

2012
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 1: a back squad, a squad with a kettlebell in front

2013
01:35:35,240 --> 01:35:37,479
Speaker 1: of you, like that's kind of arbitrary. Like it's just

2014
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:40,800
Speaker 1: you're working a certain movement pattern and you're strengthening the

2015
01:35:40,840 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 1: way that your hips, knees, and ankles extend against gravity. Right,

2016
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:46,639
Speaker 1: So you could I mean, you could do a step

2017
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:48,439
Speaker 1: up or a lunch they're all kind of doing the

2018
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:53,519
Speaker 1: same thing. So no emotional attachments to exercises is really important. Um.

2019
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:56,320
Speaker 1: And it's already especially like with the military and even

2020
01:35:56,360 --> 01:36:00,200
Speaker 1: sports enough inherent stress in the job itself that why

2021
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:02,720
Speaker 1: are people doing things like you shouldn't be getting hurt

2022
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:04,880
Speaker 1: in the weight room because your job is not the

2023
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 1: lift weights. One thing. If you're like a professional Olympic

2024
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:10,400
Speaker 1: lifter powerlifter, and you compete and you get paid based

2025
01:36:10,439 --> 01:36:13,360
Speaker 1: on your ability to lift weights, like, if you're gonna

2026
01:36:13,360 --> 01:36:15,639
Speaker 1: get hurt, it should be doing a jump. It should

2027
01:36:15,680 --> 01:36:17,320
Speaker 1: be doing your job. If you're a basketball player, it

2028
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:20,040
Speaker 1: should be you know, like um, getting elbowed trying to

2029
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:22,360
Speaker 1: go for a rebound and like that kind of thing.

2030
01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:24,560
Speaker 1: It should not be that. I mean, I've don't. I

2031
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:26,920
Speaker 1: work with so many athletes and even people in the

2032
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 1: military who it's like, oh, what's bothering you? And they're like,

2033
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:31,360
Speaker 1: my shoulder hurts, and I'm like, well, when does it

2034
01:36:31,400 --> 01:36:32,760
Speaker 1: bother you? And they're like, oh, it only hurts doing

2035
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:34,800
Speaker 1: muscle ups, And I'm like, why why are you doing

2036
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:36,840
Speaker 1: muscle ups? I mean, like, you don't need to be

2037
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 1: able to do that, And so, yes, I could I

2038
01:36:39,200 --> 01:36:41,040
Speaker 1: had counter that and say, okay, I'm gonna teach you

2039
01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 1: to do a muscle up. Well, but what if that

2040
01:36:44,160 --> 01:36:47,519
Speaker 1: person doesn't have the requisite mobility and strength and all

2041
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:50,200
Speaker 1: their individual joints to do that. To me, you're better

2042
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:52,320
Speaker 1: off just not doing it, because if you can do

2043
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 1: everything in your job and your shoulder feels fine, why

2044
01:36:55,120 --> 01:36:57,640
Speaker 1: would you risk now not being able to do your

2045
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:00,880
Speaker 1: job and further injuring your shoulder doing something that you

2046
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:03,080
Speaker 1: don't need to do for your It's like it's it's

2047
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:06,800
Speaker 1: so intuitive, but people still like don't subscribe to it.

2048
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:09,479
Speaker 1: It strikes me that in the there's a in the

2049
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:13,040
Speaker 1: current kind of fitness world or current fitness movement, whatever

2050
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:14,719
Speaker 1: you want to call it, it seems like they're almost

2051
01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:17,800
Speaker 1: selling you more of an experience. Then that's a great point.

2052
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:21,320
Speaker 1: Physical exercise, your physical fitness, Yes, and that's the difference

2053
01:37:21,320 --> 01:37:23,880
Speaker 1: between Look like, if you're in the general population and

2054
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:27,640
Speaker 1: you have like a sedentary job, that experience might be

2055
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:29,400
Speaker 1: really important because there are a lot of people who

2056
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 1: don't like to exercise, and if if if part of

2057
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:34,560
Speaker 1: what gets them to want to do it is that experience,

2058
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:37,759
Speaker 1: even if it's not maybe the most ideally suited training

2059
01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:41,120
Speaker 1: program for them, I consider that a net win. I'm

2060
01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:45,320
Speaker 1: talking more about like the military or professional sports, where

2061
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:48,800
Speaker 1: you actually have a job. It's very physically demanding. That's

2062
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 1: where like, look, you're a professional at that point your

2063
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 1: workout maybe shouldn't be the goal of your workout should

2064
01:37:54,760 --> 01:37:56,160
Speaker 1: not be to have an experience. It should be to

2065
01:37:56,880 --> 01:37:59,840
Speaker 1: enhance your preparation in your job. And that's not always

2066
01:38:00,040 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 1: on because like is it fun to dry fire your

2067
01:38:03,320 --> 01:38:05,200
Speaker 1: pistol or to go to the range? Like it's not fun,

2068
01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:07,920
Speaker 1: But the answer is yes, yes, but that's what you

2069
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:09,280
Speaker 1: have to do to be to be good. Right, to

2070
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:13,719
Speaker 1: be a professional. So, um, training general population and training

2071
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:17,439
Speaker 1: like like someone who's a professional athlete or even like

2072
01:38:17,520 --> 01:38:21,639
Speaker 1: a you know, professional rescuer or law enforcement soldier needs

2073
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:25,160
Speaker 1: to be different because if you if you work behind

2074
01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:27,280
Speaker 1: a desk and you hurt yourself doing a workout, you

2075
01:38:27,320 --> 01:38:31,519
Speaker 1: can still do your job. Um. So, like the downside

2076
01:38:31,600 --> 01:38:34,840
Speaker 1: is different depending on what you're experiences. It seems like

2077
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:37,559
Speaker 1: a lot of the fitness programs out there, the idea

2078
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:40,600
Speaker 1: is that like it's good, it's designed to blast you

2079
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 1: and just like where you down and destroy you. It's like, um,

2080
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:46,439
Speaker 1: there's another example, um, talking to a friend of mine,

2081
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:49,880
Speaker 1: if you go and take a martial arts course, Uh,

2082
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:53,000
Speaker 1: and it's the goal is self defense. I mean really

2083
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:54,680
Speaker 1: the first thing they should probably teach you is how

2084
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:58,479
Speaker 1: to extract of aid and escape right to avoid confrontation.

2085
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:00,800
Speaker 1: But because you're going to a martial arts class, it's

2086
01:39:00,840 --> 01:39:02,720
Speaker 1: like the people who go want to learn how to

2087
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:06,720
Speaker 1: choke dudes out or do striking punch people in the face. Um,

2088
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:08,880
Speaker 1: and that that's cool, you should know how to do that.

2089
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:12,440
Speaker 1: But because you're going with the intent of having an experience,

2090
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 1: maybe they're teaching you something different than what they ought to. No,

2091
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:18,639
Speaker 1: that's a that's a that's a that's a great point.

2092
01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:21,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's yeah, the martial arts analogy is a

2093
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:23,240
Speaker 1: good one. It's kind of like if you if you

2094
01:39:23,320 --> 01:39:25,519
Speaker 1: were untrained and you want to learn how to box,

2095
01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:29,120
Speaker 1: most boxing coaches aren't going to have you spar every

2096
01:39:29,200 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 1: day in the first week. And that's what's happening a

2097
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:35,720
Speaker 1: lot of these fitness programs where and the irony is

2098
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:38,960
Speaker 1: if you're not that fit, you can actually get away

2099
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:41,599
Speaker 1: with doing some of that stuff because you're not capable

2100
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:44,280
Speaker 1: often of enough output to hurt your body. But the

2101
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:47,560
Speaker 1: fitter you are, the more you can kind of to

2102
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:50,479
Speaker 1: your physical potential. So now when you're I think that

2103
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:52,880
Speaker 1: the problem with fitness now is that it's not skill

2104
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:55,639
Speaker 1: based enough. It's not like no one cares about technique.

2105
01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:58,160
Speaker 1: It's all about output and not every every sort of

2106
01:39:58,200 --> 01:40:01,160
Speaker 1: workouts the competition against yourself or against other people. So

2107
01:40:01,240 --> 01:40:04,240
Speaker 1: if your goal is to just outperform yourself or somebody

2108
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:06,839
Speaker 1: next to you, then you're not gonna be too concerned

2109
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:10,080
Speaker 1: about technique. And movement is still a skill. It's like

2110
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:14,680
Speaker 1: if you um using a soft analogy, like if you've

2111
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:17,280
Speaker 1: had an assault team and the assault team has to

2112
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:20,400
Speaker 1: do like a long infill through adverse terrain and somebody's

2113
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:24,320
Speaker 1: tired and basically shoots the hostage at the objective, you

2114
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:26,840
Speaker 1: can't during your debriefs say well, I was tired from

2115
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:30,080
Speaker 1: the the INFI um so like I didn't I took

2116
01:40:30,120 --> 01:40:33,320
Speaker 1: the wrong corner, or like I I didn't have a

2117
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:35,519
Speaker 1: good stance when I shot, or a good site picture.

2118
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:37,280
Speaker 1: I just went in the room and started shooting because

2119
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:39,360
Speaker 1: I was tired. Like that does that doesn't fly right?

2120
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:42,960
Speaker 1: It's like or if you're a basketball player and you're like, well,

2121
01:40:43,000 --> 01:40:44,479
Speaker 1: it's it's the end of the game, and I took

2122
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:46,880
Speaker 1: a a three a three point shot with the game

2123
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:49,040
Speaker 1: on the line, But like my shot went to hell

2124
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:52,400
Speaker 1: technique wise because I was fatigued. So these things still

2125
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:55,519
Speaker 1: require skill. Um, and if you're not, if you don't

2126
01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:58,200
Speaker 1: have a skill emphasis and your only emphasis on like

2127
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:00,920
Speaker 1: just making yourself as tired as you can, then I

2128
01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:04,160
Speaker 1: think you're putting yourself more risk for injury. And ultimately

2129
01:41:04,240 --> 01:41:06,800
Speaker 1: your training is going to plateau because you give and

2130
01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:09,360
Speaker 1: develop that technique. So I think that the martial arts

2131
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:11,080
Speaker 1: analogy is a good one. Like you need to throw,

2132
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:12,679
Speaker 1: you need to know how to throw a jab before

2133
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:14,760
Speaker 1: you can spar. And you have people who are like

2134
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:18,880
Speaker 1: very very unfit, immobile, unskilled, and like they're doing these

2135
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:22,439
Speaker 1: very complex movements to fatigue early on, and a lot

2136
01:41:22,479 --> 01:41:25,200
Speaker 1: of times what saves them is that because they're just

2137
01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:28,479
Speaker 1: so underprepared, they don't even know how to hurt themselves.

2138
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:30,600
Speaker 1: But the fitter they get, if they never developed that

2139
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:34,000
Speaker 1: technique base now they're more likely to probably plateau and

2140
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:36,479
Speaker 1: their training. I mean, you can't predict injury. I can't say, well,

2141
01:41:36,479 --> 01:41:38,599
Speaker 1: they're gonna get hurt, but you're more likely to plateau

2142
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:40,880
Speaker 1: if you don't have that skill. Sort of like what

2143
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:43,680
Speaker 1: I was asking Gen's earlier about future trends in the

2144
01:41:43,720 --> 01:41:46,280
Speaker 1: firearms industry. I'd like to ask you the same thing

2145
01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:49,000
Speaker 1: because I think, again, you do have a pretty good perspective.

2146
01:41:49,040 --> 01:41:50,920
Speaker 1: I think on this, like where do you see the

2147
01:41:51,320 --> 01:41:54,760
Speaker 1: fitness world going, or how we apply fitness to our

2148
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:59,400
Speaker 1: population or future trends I mean, or maybe the pitfalls

2149
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:02,120
Speaker 1: where you see maybe going in your opinion, where maybe

2150
01:42:02,120 --> 01:42:05,360
Speaker 1: you think it should be going instead. Yeah, I mean

2151
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:07,240
Speaker 1: the hard part is because a lot of stuff is

2152
01:42:07,320 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 1: so commercially driven. If you need to if you want

2153
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:13,840
Speaker 1: to run a business for like a fitness class, you

2154
01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:16,880
Speaker 1: need to sell the experience. So if like if my

2155
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:18,680
Speaker 1: only goal was to make as much money as I

2156
01:42:18,720 --> 01:42:21,519
Speaker 1: could and fitness, I would get get a room with

2157
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:25,120
Speaker 1: like a bunch of exercise bicycles or something and blast

2158
01:42:25,280 --> 01:42:26,760
Speaker 1: music and make people feel like they're at a club

2159
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:28,800
Speaker 1: and create this like a lot of like high energy.

2160
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 1: They just opened the Orange Theory near me, what that is?

2161
01:42:34,160 --> 01:42:35,600
Speaker 1: I think they might do a little bit more. But

2162
01:42:35,720 --> 01:42:40,040
Speaker 1: the thing is, like a skill based approach to fitness

2163
01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:44,439
Speaker 1: is like labor and resource intensive. People have very low

2164
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:49,360
Speaker 1: sort of attention spans these days, So oftentimes like what's

2165
01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 1: kind of like best from a training standpoint, isn't necessarily

2166
01:42:53,280 --> 01:42:55,840
Speaker 1: going to to sell because people don't want like they

2167
01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:59,200
Speaker 1: don't want to buy the basics now, so you have

2168
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:01,360
Speaker 1: to account for him. It psychology when you're doing these things,

2169
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:03,360
Speaker 1: because you can have the best idea in the world,

2170
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:06,160
Speaker 1: but if nobody cares about it, then that's you're you're

2171
01:43:06,160 --> 01:43:09,280
Speaker 1: not going to sustain your business. So I'm not in

2172
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:12,360
Speaker 1: the group fitness thing, but I guess if I was

2173
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:15,280
Speaker 1: consulting with a group fitness company, I'd probably say, look like,

2174
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:18,680
Speaker 1: if you want to create a truly good training experience,

2175
01:43:19,280 --> 01:43:21,519
Speaker 1: all the the energy and everything you're trying to do

2176
01:43:21,640 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 1: in the camaraderie is great, but maybe utilize lower skilled

2177
01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:28,360
Speaker 1: movements so that people can push themselves really hard, but

2178
01:43:28,520 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 1: where the technique is not going to be a limiting factor.

2179
01:43:31,200 --> 01:43:33,559
Speaker 1: I think there's ways to do that, But now we've

2180
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:36,599
Speaker 1: sold everybody on like you have to do Olympic lifts

2181
01:43:36,640 --> 01:43:38,920
Speaker 1: and muscle ups and cartwheels and all these different things

2182
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:42,519
Speaker 1: that now everyone's expectation when I go to a fitness classes.

2183
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:43,800
Speaker 1: If I'm not doing this, then I'm not getting a

2184
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:46,320
Speaker 1: good workout that which can be very hard to change

2185
01:43:46,400 --> 01:43:49,719
Speaker 1: that mindset. But like people, you know, people talk about

2186
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:51,960
Speaker 1: like machine training and how machine training is no good

2187
01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:53,560
Speaker 1: but for a lot if you if you want to

2188
01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:56,360
Speaker 1: work really hard and just get tired, you're almost better

2189
01:43:56,439 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 1: off doing it on the machine where you can't really

2190
01:43:58,200 --> 01:44:00,040
Speaker 1: screw it up. Um, so where you can have a

2191
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 1: very high output. But it's a low skill movement. So

2192
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 1: um it's hard because people people don't always need what

2193
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:10,800
Speaker 1: they think they want, and when those two things are

2194
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:13,479
Speaker 1: at odds, it can be very difficult to deliver the

2195
01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:16,479
Speaker 1: deliver the product because what might be the best thing,

2196
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:18,560
Speaker 1: like on paper, is not what people are going to

2197
01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:21,559
Speaker 1: pay for, right They they're buying the experience more than

2198
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:24,320
Speaker 1: the fitness. We're all very set in our ways. I

2199
01:44:24,360 --> 01:44:26,720
Speaker 1: mean in range of battalion, there's like the guys who run,

2200
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:28,960
Speaker 1: and there's the guys who lift weights and never show

2201
01:44:29,080 --> 01:44:31,080
Speaker 1: the two meet always. That's how it was back in

2202
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:33,280
Speaker 1: the day. I think they've done a lot better over

2203
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:36,080
Speaker 1: the years and evolving, um, getting more into that like

2204
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:39,360
Speaker 1: functional fitness. But I was saying that, yeah, like you

2205
01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:42,479
Speaker 1: said it to. We have a very emotional attachment to

2206
01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:45,320
Speaker 1: I think the way we exercise because we've made such

2207
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:48,040
Speaker 1: an investment in it over the years. The same as like, uh,

2208
01:44:48,360 --> 01:44:50,360
Speaker 1: someone who's a black belt in a certain sort of

2209
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:53,599
Speaker 1: sort of martial arts, like you spent your entire life

2210
01:44:53,640 --> 01:44:56,040
Speaker 1: working up to this. Like you don't want to say

2211
01:44:56,400 --> 01:44:58,800
Speaker 1: maybe that's not the right way to do things, right,

2212
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:01,840
Speaker 1: It's it's hard to be self reflective. Um, And like

2213
01:45:01,920 --> 01:45:04,640
Speaker 1: I said, like people, most people don't need perfection. I

2214
01:45:04,720 --> 01:45:07,040
Speaker 1: think at the highest level of sport of the military,

2215
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:10,360
Speaker 1: this conversation is more relevant. But like for most people,

2216
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:12,640
Speaker 1: just doing any kind of exercise is good. And so

2217
01:45:12,760 --> 01:45:14,360
Speaker 1: for them going to a group class, I mean, we

2218
01:45:14,439 --> 01:45:17,240
Speaker 1: could nitpick about like oh I wish they were using, um,

2219
01:45:17,320 --> 01:45:20,160
Speaker 1: developing skill and technique more. But if for a lot

2220
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:23,960
Speaker 1: of people, the alternative is not exercising at all, So

2221
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:26,360
Speaker 1: if it's do this class that I don't think is ideal,

2222
01:45:27,120 --> 01:45:29,439
Speaker 1: not that on the arbiter of like what ideal training is.

2223
01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:32,000
Speaker 1: But if the alternative is not doing anything at all,

2224
01:45:32,040 --> 01:45:34,920
Speaker 1: then what they're doing is good. Um. It's kind of like,

2225
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:38,160
Speaker 1: I mean, to use an SF analogy, the alternative to

2226
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:43,599
Speaker 1: isis and Syria isn't like Western democracy, it's al Qaeda, right,

2227
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:46,760
Speaker 1: So it's like it's not it's not always what we

2228
01:45:46,880 --> 01:45:48,280
Speaker 1: what we want to be the alternative. We have to

2229
01:45:48,320 --> 01:45:51,560
Speaker 1: be realistic about the alternative actually is so do you

2230
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:54,760
Speaker 1: think the way forward and then it is more personalized

2231
01:45:55,000 --> 01:45:58,360
Speaker 1: UM fitness and personalized medicine. I think, well, I think

2232
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:02,280
Speaker 1: it's more web based and tech based. UM. I think

2233
01:46:02,320 --> 01:46:05,320
Speaker 1: that from a business standpoint, the personalized thing, yes, because

2234
01:46:05,320 --> 01:46:07,680
Speaker 1: it's going to resonate with people. I think a lot

2235
01:46:07,720 --> 01:46:11,760
Speaker 1: of the personalized medicine stuff is actually bullshit. UM. You

2236
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:14,080
Speaker 1: know you're gonna see all these genetic companies coming out

2237
01:46:14,080 --> 01:46:17,360
Speaker 1: and saying, well, you've got like a you know, better

2238
01:46:17,479 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 1: chance than the average person of getting this type of

2239
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:21,040
Speaker 1: disease or whatever. I think it's going to lead to

2240
01:46:21,560 --> 01:46:24,800
Speaker 1: a lot of overtreatment because this stuff is so complex,

2241
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:28,200
Speaker 1: like multiple genes interact with the environment, but someone's going

2242
01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:31,559
Speaker 1: to like isolate, well, this gene influences this gene, which

2243
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:35,760
Speaker 1: influences this behavior or and people are going to want

2244
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:38,000
Speaker 1: to overly intervene. But everyone loves the idea that like,

2245
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm so special and that this thing is customized towards me.

2246
01:46:41,760 --> 01:46:43,240
Speaker 1: So I think that there are going to be people

2247
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:46,559
Speaker 1: who are trying to sell thiss like customized experience to people.

2248
01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:48,280
Speaker 1: And I think in the short term, it's going to

2249
01:46:48,280 --> 01:46:50,599
Speaker 1: be pretty lucrative, and then when people realize that it's

2250
01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:53,880
Speaker 1: not that effective, it's gonna fizzle out. Yeah, we had

2251
01:46:53,920 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 1: a guy come and talk to us. I'm like, we're

2252
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:58,680
Speaker 1: supposed to get our poop analyzed, the blood tests so

2253
01:46:58,760 --> 01:47:02,280
Speaker 1: we can figure out what are for foods are. Yeah, yeah,

2254
01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:05,320
Speaker 1: there's a poop analysis that you're saying that and I

2255
01:47:05,439 --> 01:47:08,040
Speaker 1: think blood. I mean, this guy is into all of that,

2256
01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:11,680
Speaker 1: seeing everything specific to you. I have not done any

2257
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:13,560
Speaker 1: of it, and we don't even actually know if that

2258
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:15,519
Speaker 1: stuff does what it says that it does, so but

2259
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:19,280
Speaker 1: we like the idea of it. But I mean, most people,

2260
01:47:19,320 --> 01:47:22,360
Speaker 1: there's so much lower hanging fruit than getting your ship analyzed.

2261
01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:26,680
Speaker 1: Like most people don't sleep, yeah, like they I mean

2262
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:29,680
Speaker 1: they eat fast food three times a day. So I

2263
01:47:29,720 --> 01:47:31,960
Speaker 1: would say, if you're doing everything, like if you're living

2264
01:47:32,040 --> 01:47:34,880
Speaker 1: like a monk, then get your poop analized. But how

2265
01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:37,400
Speaker 1: many people are actually doing that? Right? It's like people

2266
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:40,120
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, some of these like different diets,

2267
01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:41,600
Speaker 1: and the people I was thinking the same thing, like

2268
01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:44,280
Speaker 1: everyone is on the Keto diet now and then and

2269
01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 1: then the even more extreme version. I know you've talked

2270
01:47:46,760 --> 01:47:49,479
Speaker 1: about Jordan Peterson on the podcast. You could probably speak

2271
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:53,320
Speaker 1: to this. This carnivore diet seems really extreme to me

2272
01:47:53,479 --> 01:47:58,560
Speaker 1: of strictly eating meat, you know, no vegetables, no carbs.

2273
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:01,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's seems pretty Dyah. I think if it's

2274
01:48:01,439 --> 01:48:03,880
Speaker 1: if it seems ridiculous on the service that it probably is.

2275
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:06,559
Speaker 1: Like and a lot of people who will do those

2276
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:09,640
Speaker 1: things are so disciplined and everything else that they do

2277
01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:12,559
Speaker 1: that they're going to attribute or we're going to attribute,

2278
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:16,479
Speaker 1: like their health too. I did the paleo diet when

2279
01:48:16,520 --> 01:48:19,280
Speaker 1: they also exercise a lot, they take care of their sleep,

2280
01:48:19,320 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 1: they don't like drink or do drugs. Right, So, and

2281
01:48:23,000 --> 01:48:24,639
Speaker 1: what does the paleo diet even mean. If it means

2282
01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:27,000
Speaker 1: that you don't eat a lot of processed foods, then

2283
01:48:27,200 --> 01:48:28,920
Speaker 1: that's probably a good thing, Like you don't need to

2284
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:33,840
Speaker 1: only eat like free range grass fed wild animals and

2285
01:48:34,400 --> 01:48:37,560
Speaker 1: leafy greens. But if you're if you're not eating Just

2286
01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:39,680
Speaker 1: like the thing with all the stuff is whether it's

2287
01:48:39,720 --> 01:48:43,000
Speaker 1: exercise or nutrition, the issue is not lack of knowledge,

2288
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:47,840
Speaker 1: it's the behavioral modification that it takes to do the basics. Well.

2289
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:51,160
Speaker 1: So it's like people people we don't have like an

2290
01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:53,800
Speaker 1: obese the epidemic in this country because we don't know

2291
01:48:53,960 --> 01:48:57,560
Speaker 1: the ideal ratio between like protein, carbs and fats, or

2292
01:48:58,040 --> 01:49:01,120
Speaker 1: like how you know what how many vitamins or supplements

2293
01:49:01,120 --> 01:49:05,280
Speaker 1: should be taking. It's like it's systemic things. It's behavioral choices,

2294
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:08,479
Speaker 1: it's lack of access to quality food and education in

2295
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:10,920
Speaker 1: certain parts of the country. It's like, it's all these things.

2296
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:14,200
Speaker 1: It's not because you didn't get your poop analyzed. And

2297
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:17,080
Speaker 1: you know what's funny, I mean the whole trend of

2298
01:49:17,160 --> 01:49:20,160
Speaker 1: the paleo diet. Right you're not eating rice, but and

2299
01:49:20,280 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 1: people are talking about the obesity. But if you go

2300
01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:27,320
Speaker 1: to Asia, there's no obesity epidemic over there, and those

2301
01:49:27,400 --> 01:49:29,880
Speaker 1: people I mean culturally are eating a ton of rice,

2302
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:32,960
Speaker 1: a ton of carbs. So I would say it's it's

2303
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:36,800
Speaker 1: more than likely not that you're eating non organic vegetables.

2304
01:49:36,880 --> 01:49:39,479
Speaker 1: It might be that you're eating McDonald's, you know, six

2305
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:41,760
Speaker 1: times a week. Your lifestyle is totally different, and you're

2306
01:49:41,760 --> 01:49:43,600
Speaker 1: active and you don't I mean, who who knows. But

2307
01:49:44,040 --> 01:49:46,640
Speaker 1: I think anything that comes off as overly dogmatic I

2308
01:49:46,680 --> 01:49:49,680
Speaker 1: would sort of be skeptical of. I mean even you know,

2309
01:49:50,439 --> 01:49:52,639
Speaker 1: the paleo people now have kind of changed their tune

2310
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:56,439
Speaker 1: and now they're they're allowing certain starchy things like even

2311
01:49:56,520 --> 01:49:59,040
Speaker 1: like white potatoes or even some rice, because like the

2312
01:49:59,120 --> 01:50:02,559
Speaker 1: reality is people aren't getting disease they're obese because they're

2313
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:05,160
Speaker 1: eating too much white rice or too many kidneys. I mean,

2314
01:50:05,400 --> 01:50:07,160
Speaker 1: originally when the paleo thing came out, it was like,

2315
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:09,599
Speaker 1: don't even eat beans, Like is that really the problems

2316
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:12,839
Speaker 1: that people are, Like there's an epidemic of over consumption

2317
01:50:12,920 --> 01:50:16,080
Speaker 1: of beans. Like if you're eating no to low carbs,

2318
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:19,280
Speaker 1: you're also eating no fruits, and fruits are not bad

2319
01:50:19,400 --> 01:50:21,840
Speaker 1: for you, or sometimes no vegetable. There were even people

2320
01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:23,640
Speaker 1: who are saying like, oh, like you know fruits have

2321
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:26,120
Speaker 1: fruit toast in them. That's gonna make you, like turn

2322
01:50:26,200 --> 01:50:28,920
Speaker 1: you into a diabetic. It's like, again, yeah, if you're

2323
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:31,760
Speaker 1: eating a gallon of ice cream every day and then

2324
01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:35,320
Speaker 1: eat fruit afterwards, that's probably not great in peel mi grapes.

2325
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:38,240
Speaker 1: But I mean, I get like people people aren't unhealthy

2326
01:50:38,240 --> 01:50:40,640
Speaker 1: because they're over consuming fruit, Like that's that should be

2327
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:43,519
Speaker 1: the least of our problems in society. So some of

2328
01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:46,400
Speaker 1: the stuff is just ridiculous. But people like they want

2329
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:48,559
Speaker 1: to believe stuff right, and people want to be part

2330
01:50:48,600 --> 01:50:51,640
Speaker 1: of a tribe, and these are just other forms of tribalism.

2331
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:54,439
Speaker 1: For for me, um, because I don't have the medical

2332
01:50:54,479 --> 01:50:57,320
Speaker 1: background that you have, I find that there's too much

2333
01:50:57,400 --> 01:51:00,240
Speaker 1: information out there. And it's like how it's so hard

2334
01:51:00,280 --> 01:51:03,560
Speaker 1: to be consumer of of healthcare these days? It's like

2335
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:05,200
Speaker 1: how the fund do I sort through all this ship?

2336
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:08,880
Speaker 1: It's like anything else, you've got to find people that

2337
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:12,040
Speaker 1: you trust and just rely. I mean, it's like I

2338
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:14,120
Speaker 1: don't know much about how to fix my car, so

2339
01:51:14,240 --> 01:51:16,720
Speaker 1: I've got friends who are know about cars and they

2340
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:18,679
Speaker 1: can tell me how to vet the guy that's trying

2341
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:20,559
Speaker 1: to sell me on all these things that are wrong

2342
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:22,479
Speaker 1: with my car. Right, it's gonna be the same thing,

2343
01:51:22,520 --> 01:51:24,880
Speaker 1: because it's just you can't know everything. It's like, so

2344
01:51:25,000 --> 01:51:27,040
Speaker 1: if you can't be great at everything, you already have

2345
01:51:27,080 --> 01:51:28,439
Speaker 1: a job, Like how are you supposed to know all

2346
01:51:28,479 --> 01:51:31,560
Speaker 1: this stuff when it's so confusing? Or I was just

2347
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:34,680
Speaker 1: gonna say these like YouTube people, because there's so much

2348
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:37,040
Speaker 1: in the YouTube fitness community. I'm into some of it,

2349
01:51:37,160 --> 01:51:40,680
Speaker 1: but the people who tell you nothing about nutrition and

2350
01:51:41,040 --> 01:51:43,320
Speaker 1: yet they're like you gotta take creatine, You've gotta take

2351
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:45,280
Speaker 1: B C A s Like I would think, you know

2352
01:51:45,360 --> 01:51:48,360
Speaker 1: what you're eating on a daily basis, you know, woads

2353
01:51:48,439 --> 01:51:51,680
Speaker 1: more important than that, definitely. Yeah. Well I went on

2354
01:51:51,760 --> 01:51:54,120
Speaker 1: that slow carb diet at one point. It was like

2355
01:51:54,240 --> 01:51:57,240
Speaker 1: really strict about following it, and I actually found like

2356
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:00,840
Speaker 1: it had an effect on my brain. I couldn't think

2357
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:03,920
Speaker 1: quite right really, Like you know, UM they say that

2358
01:52:04,000 --> 01:52:06,040
Speaker 1: effect that UM people have when they work in like

2359
01:52:06,080 --> 01:52:08,320
Speaker 1: Antarctica or something. They don't get any sunlight. What is

2360
01:52:08,320 --> 01:52:11,519
Speaker 1: a vitamin D deficiency? And they talk about how lethargic

2361
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:14,320
Speaker 1: they are, and like they'll just sit there like looking

2362
01:52:14,360 --> 01:52:16,280
Speaker 1: at this coffee cup in front of me, thinking about

2363
01:52:16,360 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 1: like what do I do with that? Like I had

2364
01:52:19,560 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 1: that effect on my brain because I wasn't eating carbs.

2365
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:25,320
Speaker 1: I guess whatever was with my body chemistry. I will

2366
01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:27,799
Speaker 1: be looking at my computer screen for like thirty seconds

2367
01:52:27,800 --> 01:52:30,519
Speaker 1: straight like what am I supposed to be doing right now? Well,

2368
01:52:30,720 --> 01:52:32,559
Speaker 1: And the thing with a lot of these like nutritional

2369
01:52:33,000 --> 01:52:35,920
Speaker 1: systems is that they're so overly dogmatic that if you're

2370
01:52:35,920 --> 01:52:38,639
Speaker 1: trying to take someone who has terrible habits, the easiest

2371
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 1: way to get someone to not comply in the long

2372
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:42,920
Speaker 1: term is to be like have them do a complete

2373
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:46,720
Speaker 1: one eight. So I mean, if you had someone, let's

2374
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:49,200
Speaker 1: say McDonald's three times a day with a large like

2375
01:52:50,120 --> 01:52:53,719
Speaker 1: non diet soda for the first week, it should be like, okay,

2376
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:57,360
Speaker 1: for for for lunch one day, for you know, for

2377
01:52:57,520 --> 01:53:00,200
Speaker 1: for lunch each day, keep everything the same, except have

2378
01:53:00,280 --> 01:53:03,000
Speaker 1: a diet soda instead of a full calorie soda like

2379
01:53:03,040 --> 01:53:05,000
Speaker 1: that's and then sto McDonald three times a day and

2380
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:06,840
Speaker 1: then when you you prove it you can do that.

2381
01:53:07,439 --> 01:53:09,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's like one small modification at a time.

2382
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:12,320
Speaker 1: But the reason why the compliance is so low is

2383
01:53:12,400 --> 01:53:15,400
Speaker 1: because people like they're they're being asked to do too

2384
01:53:15,479 --> 01:53:17,680
Speaker 1: much initially, and like change is hard and they're just

2385
01:53:17,720 --> 01:53:20,240
Speaker 1: gonna resist it. And the people who can do these

2386
01:53:20,320 --> 01:53:23,920
Speaker 1: things and like are are able to to adhere to it,

2387
01:53:24,320 --> 01:53:27,000
Speaker 1: they already started out is so disciplined anyway that it

2388
01:53:27,120 --> 01:53:30,479
Speaker 1: wasn't a huge lifestyle modification for them. So a lot

2389
01:53:30,479 --> 01:53:32,679
Speaker 1: of times people in like fitness and nutrition, because they're

2390
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:35,360
Speaker 1: so passionate about it, they expect everyone else to be

2391
01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:39,559
Speaker 1: passionate as their livelihood. You know, your body is your advertisement, right,

2392
01:53:39,640 --> 01:53:41,519
Speaker 1: So Yeah, Like a lot of people don't care about

2393
01:53:41,560 --> 01:53:42,760
Speaker 1: working out, Like I have a lot of people who

2394
01:53:42,760 --> 01:53:44,960
Speaker 1: aren't that active, but they want to feel better. So

2395
01:53:45,040 --> 01:53:47,080
Speaker 1: it's like, all right, like what's the one or two

2396
01:53:47,120 --> 01:53:48,360
Speaker 1: things we can do to make you feel better. I

2397
01:53:48,360 --> 01:53:50,960
Speaker 1: don't expect you to work out, you know, five five

2398
01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:53,400
Speaker 1: hours a week um, which is like for some people

2399
01:53:53,400 --> 01:53:55,360
Speaker 1: it's not even that much. But like I'm like, can

2400
01:53:55,400 --> 01:53:56,720
Speaker 1: you give me five minutes a day to just do

2401
01:53:56,840 --> 01:53:58,840
Speaker 1: this like one stretch or whatever. So you've got to

2402
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:01,280
Speaker 1: kind of know your audience. Uh, But a lot of

2403
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:04,280
Speaker 1: like the really strict dogmatic stuff, it's not it's not

2404
01:54:04,439 --> 01:54:06,720
Speaker 1: impacting the people who need it the most. It's it's

2405
01:54:06,760 --> 01:54:09,400
Speaker 1: reaching people who already like believing that stuff and we're

2406
01:54:09,400 --> 01:54:12,400
Speaker 1: already probably doing it, and it's more like just confirmation bias.

2407
01:54:12,520 --> 01:54:15,280
Speaker 1: And it's like, depending on what your political ideology is,

2408
01:54:15,280 --> 01:54:17,320
Speaker 1: you're only gonna watch one news station and it's more

2409
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:20,120
Speaker 1: of like an echo chamber that really impacting the people

2410
01:54:20,120 --> 01:54:24,479
Speaker 1: who need it. Right, it's back to the UM martial

2411
01:54:24,600 --> 01:54:26,840
Speaker 1: arts analogy again. It reminds me of that dude that

2412
01:54:27,000 --> 01:54:30,040
Speaker 1: Chinese mm A fighter who keeps challenging like Tai Chi

2413
01:54:30,240 --> 01:54:33,760
Speaker 1: grand masters. You've seen these videos at all? Are you

2414
01:54:33,800 --> 01:54:35,520
Speaker 1: talking about the videos where the guy is like beating

2415
01:54:35,560 --> 01:54:38,520
Speaker 1: people in his mind, he's like making movements are falling.

2416
01:54:38,600 --> 01:54:42,000
Speaker 1: So like tai chi and other their traditional Chinese martial

2417
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:45,640
Speaker 1: arts very important in their cultural heritage. And there's this

2418
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:49,480
Speaker 1: one guy, he's a Chinese mixed martial artist and he

2419
01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:53,520
Speaker 1: is trying to break into this into martial arts in China.

2420
01:54:53,760 --> 01:54:56,720
Speaker 1: Very difficult to do. I think he's found because there

2421
01:54:56,760 --> 01:54:58,680
Speaker 1: are these traditional martial arts and so what do you

2422
01:54:58,760 --> 01:55:01,400
Speaker 1: do is challenge these like ran masters in tai chi

2423
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:06,080
Speaker 1: and um pummel them just like hands down, no questions asked,

2424
01:55:06,160 --> 01:55:09,840
Speaker 1: just like destroying them. And it created a ships ship

2425
01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:13,320
Speaker 1: storm in China because it's like you're uprooting this cultural

2426
01:55:13,440 --> 01:55:17,640
Speaker 1: tradition Um, and he's like had all kinds of retaliation

2427
01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:21,440
Speaker 1: and all sorts of stuff happen. But it's like, I

2428
01:55:21,520 --> 01:55:23,960
Speaker 1: think most people who have like half a brain know

2429
01:55:24,200 --> 01:55:26,280
Speaker 1: that someone who does tai chi isn't gonna like win

2430
01:55:26,360 --> 01:55:30,160
Speaker 1: the UFC. So it's like, why there is any claims

2431
01:55:30,200 --> 01:55:31,760
Speaker 1: that they can, like, I don't think there's even a

2432
01:55:31,800 --> 01:55:34,680
Speaker 1: conception of the UFC in China right there, there that

2433
01:55:34,880 --> 01:55:37,640
Speaker 1: the masters are who they are and like Wing Chung

2434
01:55:37,840 --> 01:55:41,040
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, I mean if they're making claims like

2435
01:55:41,160 --> 01:55:43,760
Speaker 1: this system is going to make you like unbeatable or whatever,

2436
01:55:44,560 --> 01:55:46,560
Speaker 1: then yeah, I guess they deserve to have some skin

2437
01:55:46,640 --> 01:55:48,360
Speaker 1: in the game and have to prove that. But but

2438
01:55:48,480 --> 01:55:52,160
Speaker 1: that's that's the echo chamber, right. Yeah. Yeah, there's an

2439
01:55:52,320 --> 01:55:55,080
Speaker 1: incestuous martial arts system. And I know people in the

2440
01:55:55,240 --> 01:55:58,640
Speaker 1: in the you know, shooting who run shooting courses and

2441
01:55:58,800 --> 01:56:01,520
Speaker 1: Marksmanship Corps says they talk about the same thing that

2442
01:56:01,600 --> 01:56:05,320
Speaker 1: there's this very incestuous kind of relationship in that world. Yeah,

2443
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:08,360
Speaker 1: I mean humans are humans, like this is the phenomenon

2444
01:56:09,480 --> 01:56:12,280
Speaker 1: and it transcends the whatever it is that they're doing.

2445
01:56:13,520 --> 01:56:15,200
Speaker 1: This has been awesome, man, I mean I think we've

2446
01:56:15,240 --> 01:56:17,600
Speaker 1: covered a lot of ground. We've gone two hours here

2447
01:56:18,480 --> 01:56:22,880
Speaker 1: Resilient Performance dot Com at Resilient PPT, on Twitter and

2448
01:56:22,960 --> 01:56:27,040
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I saw Doug's personal Twitter is at Green

2449
01:56:27,200 --> 01:56:30,840
Speaker 1: Feet PT. Wrapping things up here, though, I do want

2450
01:56:30,840 --> 01:56:32,839
Speaker 1: to talk about what we have going on here in Hurricane.

2451
01:56:33,480 --> 01:56:35,760
Speaker 1: Be sure to check out Great Club. We have different

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Speaker 1: tiers of membership depending on how prepared you want to

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Speaker 1: be and gift options are available as well. I actually

2454
01:56:40,840 --> 01:56:43,360
Speaker 1: just got a message back from the guy won our

2455
01:56:43,440 --> 01:56:45,400
Speaker 1: Email of the Week and he was like, this phishing

2456
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Speaker 1: spear is awesome. Love getting that people. That's like a

2457
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Speaker 1: big item. And the funny thing is, you know, I

2458
01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:53,200
Speaker 1: was talking to Brandon off air and uh, it is true.

2459
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Speaker 1: And then he's like, I don't know if this is

2460
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Speaker 1: like the most practical item, but people love it. He's like,

2461
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Speaker 1: he's one of our most popular items. Yeah. So that

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Speaker 1: was in a recent Create Club Scott Whittner from the

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Speaker 1: Load out Room, Drew Wallace who's an army ranger, and

2464
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Speaker 1: all of these guys you've heard on the show. They're

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Speaker 1: working to put together great stuff with Create Club, putting

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Speaker 1: It's a club four men by men. You can check

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Speaker 1: that all out of Create Club dot Us. Once again,

2470
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Speaker 1: that's Create Club dot Us. Also, as a reminder for

2471
01:57:28,360 --> 01:57:31,040
Speaker 1: those listening, now is the time to sign up for

2472
01:57:31,080 --> 01:57:33,920
Speaker 1: the spec Ops Channel. That's our channel that offers the

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Speaker 1: most exclusive shows, documentaries, and interviews covering the most exciting

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Speaker 1: ops channel dot com. Sign up today. The newest thing

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Speaker 1: exclusive information that you can act on today to secure

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Speaker 1: based on global trends that affect financial markets in the

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Speaker 1: national defense industry. So by subscribing now, you'll get exclusive

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Speaker 1: access to our industry expertise. The news Rep Financial Newsletter

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Speaker 1: advantages that our team offers unmatched defense industry familiarity and expertise,

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Speaker 1: unbiased knowledge of geopolitical trends, and full access to news

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Speaker 1: Reps foreign policy, security, and financial intelligence platform as well

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Speaker 1: as access to our team of experts and analysts. Just

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Speaker 1: go to the finn Rep tab that's at the top

2497
01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:06,720
Speaker 1: of the news rep dot com to sign up. That's

2498
01:59:06,760 --> 01:59:08,600
Speaker 1: finn Rep right at the top of the news rep

2499
01:59:08,680 --> 01:59:11,160
Speaker 1: dot com and you'll see that prompt if you want

2500
01:59:11,200 --> 01:59:14,280
Speaker 1: to subscribe and become a member. Uh. Man, we've covered

2501
01:59:14,320 --> 01:59:16,880
Speaker 1: so much ground today and really small world known we

2502
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:19,360
Speaker 1: both grew up in hast and it just happened out

2503
01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:21,480
Speaker 1: of nowhere, just dict like we didn't know this going in,

2504
01:59:21,680 --> 01:59:24,720
Speaker 1: so really cool man. And and also your background with

2505
01:59:25,360 --> 01:59:27,720
Speaker 1: James Reagan. I think that's a guy that that listeners

2506
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:30,000
Speaker 1: of the show would love to know about. And hearing

2507
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:32,000
Speaker 1: your background was really cool because I know Leo has

2508
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:34,840
Speaker 1: spoken highly of highly of him, but if someone who

2509
01:59:34,880 --> 01:59:36,960
Speaker 1: grew up with him, that was really cool to hear. Yeah. No,

2510
01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:39,960
Speaker 1: I'm glad to uh talk about people people more people

2511
01:59:39,960 --> 01:59:43,160
Speaker 1: should know about him. So well. Once again, the website

2512
01:59:43,280 --> 01:59:46,160
Speaker 1: is Resilient Performance dot com and then you'll see links

2513
01:59:46,200 --> 01:59:48,160
Speaker 1: to everything from there. Is Is there anything else we

2514
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:50,360
Speaker 1: haven't covered because it's been a long episode. I think

2515
01:59:50,360 --> 01:59:52,200
Speaker 1: we've covered a lot of great ground. No, I think

2516
01:59:52,240 --> 01:59:54,320
Speaker 1: that's think that's good. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Yeah,

2517
01:59:54,400 --> 01:59:56,760
Speaker 1: we'll have to do it again. Uh. You know, I've

2518
01:59:56,800 --> 01:59:58,360
Speaker 1: been wanting to have you on this podcast for a

2519
01:59:58,440 --> 02:00:02,000
Speaker 1: while actually, and um, I'm sorry it took so long

2520
02:00:02,040 --> 02:00:04,000
Speaker 1: to get around it. No where it's easy, so I'm

2521
02:00:04,040 --> 02:00:05,800
Speaker 1: right down the streets. So yeah, we'll have to do

2522
02:00:05,840 --> 02:00:07,880
Speaker 1: it again sometimes. Okay. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Thanks guys.

2523
02:00:08,000 --> 02:00:09,840
Speaker 1: And every now and again we do get into the

2524
02:00:09,880 --> 02:00:13,240
Speaker 1: fitness stuff with different people. We have with Ricky Pose on,

2525
02:00:13,800 --> 02:00:16,760
Speaker 1: um C J Woodruff who is on, So it might

2526
02:00:16,800 --> 02:00:18,680
Speaker 1: be cool to have you guest on some of those

2527
02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:21,240
Speaker 1: episodes too. And you know, because you're you're definitely an

2528
02:00:21,280 --> 02:00:23,400
Speaker 1: expert in the field. Yeah, Doug really knows his stuff.

2529
02:00:23,400 --> 02:00:25,160
Speaker 1: It's like when we have Jim that's on to talk

2530
02:00:25,200 --> 02:00:27,720
Speaker 1: about martial arts and Doug is the guy to have

2531
02:00:27,880 --> 02:00:30,200
Speaker 1: on to talk about physical fitness. It makes sense. And

2532
02:00:30,320 --> 02:00:32,520
Speaker 1: every now and again you're away, So I think it'd

2533
02:00:32,560 --> 02:00:34,160
Speaker 1: be cool to have you on, you know, as long

2534
02:00:34,200 --> 02:00:36,760
Speaker 1: as you're open to it and maybe interview some people

2535
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:40,400
Speaker 1: in that world. Yeah, because it's there's there's such a

2536
02:00:40,480 --> 02:00:43,560
Speaker 1: cross section with this audience and people into m m A,

2537
02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:46,320
Speaker 1: people into fitness, and that's why we try to cover

2538
02:00:46,400 --> 02:00:48,320
Speaker 1: those grounds. I mean I even did a whole episode

2539
02:00:48,400 --> 02:00:52,000
Speaker 1: with former co workers Sewn the Butcher from Sirius XM

2540
02:00:52,200 --> 02:00:55,720
Speaker 1: and Pat McNamara talking metal just because there's that's another

2541
02:00:55,760 --> 02:00:58,120
Speaker 1: cross section of this audience. So I mean it just

2542
02:00:58,240 --> 02:01:01,360
Speaker 1: makes sense to cover that ground. You can't talk spec

2543
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:05,400
Speaker 1: ops every single episode. You could, but we probably shouldn't.

2544
02:01:05,760 --> 02:01:07,360
Speaker 1: You know, well, you know every now and again when

2545
02:01:07,400 --> 02:01:09,840
Speaker 1: we don't, I get like, you know, how come this

2546
02:01:10,080 --> 02:01:13,240
Speaker 1: podcast is is like steering away from that and you

2547
02:01:13,320 --> 02:01:15,360
Speaker 1: just guys just want a big general audience, like when

2548
02:01:15,400 --> 02:01:18,120
Speaker 1: we talk aboutbout like comic books and we have comic

2549
02:01:18,160 --> 02:01:20,600
Speaker 1: book writers. Yeah, yeah, I mean you gotta mix it

2550
02:01:20,680 --> 02:01:22,760
Speaker 1: up there where this is gonna be like what episode

2551
02:01:22,800 --> 02:01:25,880
Speaker 1: four five or something? Let me see off the I

2552
02:01:26,400 --> 02:01:29,520
Speaker 1: forget off the top of man. I think it's let's

2553
02:01:29,560 --> 02:01:35,480
Speaker 1: see we are now at we're an episode fo. Yeah,

2554
02:01:35,680 --> 02:01:38,160
Speaker 1: so you gotta mix it up. I agree, I would

2555
02:01:38,200 --> 02:01:42,160
Speaker 1: get bored, but you really appreciate having you on. Yeah. Thanks,

2556
02:01:45,320 --> 02:01:49,640
Speaker 1: you've been listening to self rep Radio. New episodes up

2557
02:01:49,720 --> 02:01:54,040
Speaker 1: every Wednesday and Friday. Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter.

2558
02:01:54,480 --> 02:01:55,760
Speaker 1: That's self Rep radio