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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more

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Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. One of the

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Speaker 1: biggest environmental clashes yet between Democrat led states and President

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is now in motion. Last month, Trump chouted

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Speaker 1: his administration's environmental leadership from day one. My administration has

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Speaker 1: made at a top priority to ensure that America as

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Speaker 1: among the very cleanest air and cleanest water on the planet.

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Speaker 1: But a coalition of twenty nine states and cities begs

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Speaker 1: to differ. They say Trump roll back a landmark Obama

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Speaker 1: initiative that capped carbon dioxide emissions from power plants and

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Speaker 1: replaced it with a rule that will ease restrictions on

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Speaker 1: coal fired power plants and increase pollution instead of curbing it.

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Speaker 1: Here's California Attorney General Javier Baserra, President Trump once again

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Speaker 1: attempting to gut our nation's clean power plant. That effort

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Speaker 1: is foolish. It's a toothless substitute that they present in

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Speaker 1: the place of the clean power plant. It's more of

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Speaker 1: a fossil fuel protection plan and it is ill advised,

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Speaker 1: but more importantly, it's against the law. Joining me is

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Speaker 1: Charles warrenhead of the environmental law practice at Kramer Levin Chuck.

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Speaker 1: Trump's plan is called the Affordable Clean Energy Plan. Explain

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Speaker 1: how it changes the Obama era rules. Yeah, it's really

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Speaker 1: a big change. June. What's the Obama Clean Power Plan said?

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Speaker 1: It required states to put plans in place it would

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Speaker 1: reduce the carbon dioxide emissions by and they actually put

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Speaker 1: caps on those emissions, and they encourage the closing of

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Speaker 1: heavily polluted older plants and the use of natural gas

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Speaker 1: and and renewable to reduce the greenhouse gasses. Now what

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Speaker 1: the new rule does, it's completely different. It's basically does

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Speaker 1: not cap emissions like the Obama rule did and leaves

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Speaker 1: it totally to the states to decide whether or if

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Speaker 1: to reduce emissions and pick from you a list of

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Speaker 1: certain technologies. And it's really in a sense, turning the

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Speaker 1: Clean Air Act around, which which the Act requires the

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Speaker 1: federal government to actually set standards for air pollutants and

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Speaker 1: the states then to have plans to implement those standards

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Speaker 1: and would allow the states to basically do anything they wanted.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think there's so much concern on

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Speaker 1: the part of environmental people and the states that have

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Speaker 1: actually brought the lawsuit against it, and it would be

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Speaker 1: a revolutionary change in the way air pollution is regulated

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Speaker 1: under the Clean Air Act. Attorney General Bassrah and the

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Speaker 1: other state ages say that it's against the law. How

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Speaker 1: so what are their grounds for suing? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: what they're saying is that under the Clean Air Act,

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Speaker 1: once a pollutant is listed and it has to be regulated,

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Speaker 1: and then standards have to be set for that pollutant,

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Speaker 1: and those standards are set by the federal government. What

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Speaker 1: they're saying is, in this case, you're not setting a standard,

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Speaker 1: you're not putting a cap on any emissions, and you're

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Speaker 1: just allowing the states to decide if they want to

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Speaker 1: do something or if they don't, and and just for

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Speaker 1: individual plants, they can do one thing or another thing.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that's really the strong basis for

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Speaker 1: the lawsuit is that they're really not setting any standards

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Speaker 1: for carbon dioxide, which is the major greenhouse gas pollutant. So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: do you think that's a good argument. Yes, I do.

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Speaker 1: I do think that's a strong argument. And again I

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Speaker 1: think that, as I said it, if the Trump administration

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Speaker 1: were to prevail on this, it really turns the Clean

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Speaker 1: Air Act on its head because the Cleaner Act was

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Speaker 1: originally enacted because states and others weren't really doing anything,

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Speaker 1: and Congress said, the federal government has got to come

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Speaker 1: in and basically set standards for pollutants that need to

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Speaker 1: be regulated, and this would turn that around. And that's

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Speaker 1: why that's why I think it's a good argument to

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Speaker 1: be overturned this particular regulation. So this is likely to

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Speaker 1: go all the way up to the Supreme Court. And

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Speaker 1: President Obama's Clean Power Plan was prevented from going into

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Speaker 1: effect by previous litigation by Republican led states, and the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court temporarily blocked the Obama administration by I think

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Speaker 1: it was a five to four vote. So is the

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Speaker 1: Court likely to rule the same way in this case

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Speaker 1: to the same theories apply? Not necessarily June because in

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Speaker 1: the previous case, there has been a case before the

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Speaker 1: d C. Circuit Court of Appeals that's where these regulations

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Speaker 1: go automatically under the Clean Air Act and At the

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Speaker 1: same time, the States appeal to the Supreme Court to

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Speaker 1: issue a stay so that while the case was being

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Speaker 1: decided by the DC Court of Appeals, e p A

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Speaker 1: couldn't implement the regulation. And what the court basically said was, look,

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Speaker 1: we're just gonna stay stop it so it doesn't go

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Speaker 1: into effect, and we'll wait to see what happens, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the d C Circuit Court of Appeals. And uh,

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Speaker 1: it's much easier to get a stay of something like

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Speaker 1: that if people talk about you know, serious economic consequences

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Speaker 1: and things like that as a result of the regulation

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Speaker 1: than it is to actually get a ruling on the merits.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think that gets a tough case

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Speaker 1: for the administration to try to win in the d

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Speaker 1: C Circuit and the Supreme Court. The e p A

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Speaker 1: z own analysis of the new rules predict an extra

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Speaker 1: three d people will die each year by because of

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Speaker 1: the additional air pollution from the power grid. The American

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Speaker 1: Long Association the American Public Health Association have already filed

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Speaker 1: suit to block it. How does the e p A

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Speaker 1: square this rule with those facts that it's come up

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Speaker 1: with on its own. Well, I think that this rule,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of the environmental rules from the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration are basically too lessen the burden on the industries

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Speaker 1: and keep the economy moving in there, I think in

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Speaker 1: their view. And I think that's where the Clean Air

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Speaker 1: Act has always been a difficult act for industry because

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Speaker 1: they feel that it puts constraints on their ability to operate.

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Speaker 1: But the Clean Air Act was passed as a public

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Speaker 1: health statute. And also in this case, because the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court ruled that carbon dioxide is a pollutant that could

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Speaker 1: be regulated a greenhouse gas regulation, and uh, that's something

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Speaker 1: that has economic consequences, certainly for a lot of power plants.

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Speaker 1: And that's why the States brought this case against the

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Speaker 1: Obama plan, and that's why I believe the trumpt administration

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Speaker 1: is trying to substitute this which would give more of

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Speaker 1: a break to the power plants. All Right, thanks so much, Chuckle.

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Speaker 1: A lot of environmental law news this week. That's Charles

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Speaker 1: warrenhead of the environmental practice at Kramer Levin. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe and

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Speaker 1: listen to the show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. Slash Podcast. I'm June Brasso. This is

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Ye