WEBVTT - Invention Classic: The Museum 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:10.119 Hey, welcome to Invention. My name is Robert Lamb and 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.280 I'm Joe McCormick, and today we are bringing you a 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.400 classic episode of Invention. This was the one we recorded 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.880 about the museum. It originally published July one, nineteen. Yeah, 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:21.840 this is this is a fun one because it's not 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.520 something you might even think about as being an invention, 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.880 as being something that for which there had to be 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:31.080 a first. Uh. So let's just dive right in and 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:38.000 discover the history of the museum. Welcome to Invention, a 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:44.360 production of I Heart Radio. Hey you, welcome to Invention. 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.440 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. You know, 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.280 humans are aware of history. That's that's one of our 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.040 our key attributes. Not always though, well to varying degrees, 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.840 we're aware of history, or we have awareness of of 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.520 of what we think history to be uh and uh 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.160 and not just our own personal history, but history across generations, 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.280 across decades, across centuries, millennia. Even we're aware of what 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.680 came before via oral traditions and the evidence of the 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:15.600 world around us, even as we continually change in anticipation 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:17.880 of the future. And then of course we have recorded 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.400 history as well, and we have a concept of history 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.080 that goes beyond concern for literal accuracy about what happened 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.640 in the past. I think about everything from ancient mythologies 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.800 in which people tried to construct a you know, not 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.440 not literally existent version of their past, but something to 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.200 sort of explain the present, all the way to the 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.840 kinds of mythical histories that people still like to engage 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.560 in today, you know, ancient aliens and all, you know, 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.960 half the stuff on the history shows on TV. Oh yeah, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:52.240 Inevitably history ends up melding with myth and you really 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.360 don't have to go too far back in history for 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.639 that to take place, for for the historical to become 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.800 the legendary. At least, one thing that makes clear, I think, 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.280 is that we have a kind of craving for something 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.280 that we think of as history that is not always 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:10.640 exactly the same thing as knowing what's actually true about 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.840 what happened X number of years ago, right right, So 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:19.200 establishing just from the get go that the human contemplation 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.040 of history is in and of itself kind of a 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:27.160 complex thing. Uh, narrative becomes an essential part of it, 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.880 but also a complicating aspect of it. Yeah, and then 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.359 their additional concerns we're going to get into now when 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:36.720 we when we think about history, I mean, one of 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.359 the things about human use of history is that we're 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.640 able to pass information on in a way that doesn't 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.600 depend on our genetics. So a big part of it is, 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:49.400 of course just recorded histories literature about the past. But 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.120 then uh, there are the artifacts of the past. Uh, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.760 there are the artifacts of the distant past, the the 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:00.880 the relatively recent past, um artifacts of the present, and 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.160 all of these things find their way into museums. Yeah. 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:08.760 I mean, to think about what you're feeling about ancient 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.360 Egypt would be if you could only have read about 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.280 it and you never could have seen any of its artifacts, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.720 any of its artwork. You've never seen images of the pyramids, 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:22.960 never seen the ancient figurines or the sarcopha guy or 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.720 anything like that. There would be a necessary texture that 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.640 would be lacking to your understanding of what ancient Egypt was. Yeah, 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.840 And of course to today, we have so many tools 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.960 at our disposal to say understand ancient Egypt of one thing, 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.240 we just we have a better understanding than ever before. 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:41.240 There's still a lot of things we don't know, but 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.280 we but you know, we're at the bleeding edge of 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.720 our understanding, um and uh. And on top of that, 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:52.360 we have photography, we have the motion picture, we have 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.160 computer imagery, we have just a whole host of of 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.520 inventions that have made it, first of all, made it 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.720 easier for us to understand what agent Egypt was like. 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.720 And it's made it easier for people all around the 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.640 world to get a grasp of it. Like you no 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.839 longer have to travel to ancient Egypt, as certainly even 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:17.279 the Romans did the ancient Romans uh consider in their 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:21.200 contemplation of the even more ancient Egyptians. Uh. And then 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.640 likewise you don't even have to be able to travel 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.640 to a museum that has artifacts that have been transported 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.560 from Egypt. Obviously, you can go to websites, you can 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:34.000 go to uh two books, to films, etcetera. But the 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.159 museum is still important. Yeah, that's exactly right, And it's 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.719 important in multiple ways. I mean, I think about the 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.440 two main ways it's important. Number one, of course, is 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.880 just the preservation and display of artifacts to show you 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.120 what they looked like, you know, to give you the 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:53.760 physical representation. But then I think Equally as important is 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:58.960 the contextualizing literature of a museum, the interpretive material, because 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.640 you know, this is and pointed out by archaeologists and 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.560 historians that if we only form our picture of a 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.240 past civilization by looking at its physical artifacts, there is 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:13.760 a necessary sort of uh, filtering mechanism there. That's time. 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.960 You don't see all the aspects of the civilization that 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.200 are prone to that are biodegradable, or that are prone 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.560 to erosion breaking down over time. Uh So, I mean 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.039 there's sort of this joke about like, you know, if 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.320 you only look at the artifacts and you don't read 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.080 about the other things or see sort of artists representations 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.560 of what the other things surrounding these artifacts might have been, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.120 you could assume that everyone in ancient Egypt like walked 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.920 around in stone clothes. Yeah yeah, Or you know that 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.160 that all the the art, all the sculpture and ancient 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.360 Rome was unpainted and you know stoic and gray. I mean, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.160 it's it's essentially in this sense, the archaeological and the 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.320 anthropological are very much like palaeontology. Uh you know, it's 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.760 it's one thing to look at the even the reassembled 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.720 and uh, you know, the resembled fossils of a prehistoric creature. 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:06.039 But then there are all the things that did not 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:10.600 survive that we have to piece together, uh to get 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.480 a full understanding of what this creature was or might 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:17.080 have been. Yeah, the skin across time. Uh, that can 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.440 all be represented in the interpretive materials of a museum. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:22.760 So those are I think equally as important as just 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.279 like having an artifact and preserving it from being destroyed 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.279 by the elements. Oh yeah, Like I think of the 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.200 like the really great museums I've been to, and I'm 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:32.919 and I've been fortunate enough to get to go to 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:34.719 you know a number of the more fortunate enough to 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:36.480 live in a city that have some very nice museums 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.680 as well. Um. But but there's a you know, there's 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.200 a journey you go on. There's there's a story that 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.520 you involve yourself in when you're when you when you're 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.680 in a really good museum or a really good exhibit. Uh. 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:50.320 And I think you know part of that too is 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.040 like it appeals to spatial learning. UM. For instance, free 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:58.600 plug for the Firm Bank Museum here in Atlanta. Uh, 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:00.440 you know, they have a section called the like the 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.560 Georgia Walk through time and uh, it's something that you know, 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.600 kids that grew up in the Atlanta area have been 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.640 going to for a long time and they probably end 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:10.640 up taking it for granted. But you know, there's this 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.480 it's like a spatial journey you do walk through time. 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:15.800 You get to uh, you know, go through these exhibits 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:17.400 and get kind of a you know, a walk through 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.320 of geologic history and uh. And I think that's important. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.640 Likewise with with fossils and and reproductions or even u 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.800 taxidermy um animals, there is something about being in the 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:34.360 physical presence of either this creature or representation of this 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:38.120 creature that that just gives you an understanding of it 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.000 that you don't necessarily get from a book or a 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.400 description or a film or even some sort of uh, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.720 you know, a virtual reality simulation. Yeah, that's right. And 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:48.600 so later in the episode we are going to discuss 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.400 some of the the potential drawbacks and other considerations to 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.960 have about museum culture. But there is certainly a thing 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.840 that is great about museum culture, like the the tendency 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.560 to want to preserve history and explain it right and 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.360 to and also can can forge an emotional connection like 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.080 I believe it was the Field Museum. I believe we 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.840 we we were there together because we had a work 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:18.280 thing up there, and uh, they had an exhibit about 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.960 where they had an artistic recreation of slaveship, and you 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.480 like walk through the hold of it, and it's, uh, 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.160 you know, it's just a really emotional experience. It just 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.080 brings you know, I remember, you know, it brought tears 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:31.760 to my eyes, you know, and it was like that's 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.000 an example where you know, you you have this positive 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:40.240 emotional manipulation to a certain extent by the by the museum, 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.200 you know, to give you this emotional connection with the topic. 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.360 And I think that's easy to overlook when we think 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.600 of museums because you can think of them as as 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.720 just like a stoic presentation of artifacts that are perhaps 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.360 lacking in context, or acquire a great deal of reading 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.520 a fine print. But they could also help you feel 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.720 the pain and passion of people who have been long dead. Right. Um. 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:03.960 The Civil Rights Museum here in Atlanta also does a 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.360 tremendous job through you know, all sorts of like multimedia 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.440 of of you know, being able to like there's one 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:12.440 exhibit where you you sit at a lunch counter and 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:16.720 you wear headphones to give you the experience of of 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.960 being a protester during the Civil rights movement in America. 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.840 And you know, it's little things like that often with 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.240 with you know, some technological bells and whistles which you've 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.959 you've used wisely, you know, can just really enhance what 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.400 the museum is able to do from you know, an 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.520 educational perspective. That's exactly right, And that's that's a good 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.040 point about how you know, museums today are much more 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.800 than just uh, the storage and display of physical artifacts. 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.600 I mean, that's the sort of classic museum tradition is 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.680 like you have an object of some kind of significance. 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:50.840 It's a work of art or an artifact found through 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.319 archaeology or something, or you know, it's natural history. Maybe 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.840 it's a mineral or a bone or something like that, 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.120 um and and that's on display. But yeah, museums are 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.319 bigger than that now. They're there in many ways is 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.120 sort of just like place you can go to engage 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.679 with some form or other of history, right and and 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.240 or so, or even celebrate it, you know, such as 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.319 you know, when I think of some of our better 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.080 you know, science and technology museums It's like a a 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:19.600 space where where science is celebrated, and there will be 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.360 various activities going on to aid in that celebration, from 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:27.240 say a science themed playroom for very small children, to 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:31.439 say a lecture series for uh, for for older individuals 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.360 who you know, who needs something more you know, substantive. 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.840 So I guess the question is how did humans start 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:42.120 doing this? Like when did the museum tradition begin? When 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.360 when did we first get the idea that you would, uh, 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.920 that you would put objects on display or have some 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.720 kind of place where you could you could go to 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:54.400 interact with educational materials like this, right. And I think 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.200 an important thing that we're we're kind of skipping over 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.280 and all this is that is that a music hum 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.760 ideally and um and generally the better examples that we 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.199 tend to focus on are going to be open for everyone. 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.560 So it's it's not just a matter of oh, well, 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.640 this university has a storeroom of artifacts, or this uh, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.520 this institution or this family has some wonderful pieces set aside. 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:19.760 Uh you you'd love it if you could see it. Now, 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.760 A museum is ideally a place that is open to 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.440 the people and the and and and everyone is allowed 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.120 to venture in and engage with the materials there. Right, 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:35.079 So just the king's treasure room of like artifacts collected 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.680 from the you know, from the cities he has conquered, 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.480 is not necessarily a museum because that's just his treasure room, right. 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.160 And you're probably not invited, And it's probably better if 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:49.520 you're not invited, because it sounds like like a dangerous 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.400 place to venture into. Uh. You know, when I started 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.000 thinking just sort of, you know, casually at first, you know, 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.120 about the history museums, I started thinking, okay, well, what 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:58.559 are you know, what are some of the museums that 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.240 I've been to and how old are they? And if 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.600 everyone else does his exercise as well, I think you'll 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.560 note that, you know, most of the museums that come 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.320 to mind our products of fairly recent history. UM. And 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.320 obviously this holds true for the various American museums I've visited, 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.880 and even the British Natural History Museum as a product 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.840 of colonial expansion and wasn't found into the nineteenth century, 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:23.520 UM spun off from a private collection. And uh, and 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.679 we still see that that kind of movement going on 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.400 to this day. You know, we'll have large private collections 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.760 that are either um continued that you're donated to a 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.839 museum or spun off into a museum of some sort. 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.080 But the oldest museum in the UK, for instance, the 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.760 Royal Armories in the Tower of London, only goes back 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.760 to fifteen two, with public access emerging in sixteen sixty. 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.000 Now generally at this point in the podcast, you know, 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.560 we talked about what came before the invention, what was 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.360 the world leading up to that? And I think probably 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.400 the best exercise here is to is to and not 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.959 to try and think of like a world without museums, 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.640 but think of the various things in history that are 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.280 sort of like a museum but not quite. Okay, So 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.360 first of all, we already mentioned like the King's treasure room. Right, 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.760 you know, you have conquered many cities and many great lands, 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.920 and maybe you you took artifacts that were sacred to them, 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:15.679 and then you brought it back to your treasure room 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.400 and you kept it locked up for yourself. Right. Yeah, 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.439 it's it's it's it's certainly kind of like a museum, 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:23.800 but not a museum. And we should note I mean 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.400 that many museums, I mean one of the sort of 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.760 like counterpoints to the good things about a museum is 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.880 that lots of great museums around the world today do 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.760 represent a kind of colonial plunder. I mean there there 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.720 are cases whereas there are objects, you know, in British 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.560 museums that are of great historical significance, but that you know, 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.280 we're taken from other people's around the world by colonial 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.960 invaders from Great Britain exactly. So yeah, the King's Horde 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.560 of Treasures is uh, it's it's not a museum, but 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:54.960 at the same time it does have a lot in 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.440 common and I think that's going to be the case 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.240 with all these not quite museum examples we're gonna touch on. 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.000 You know, also worth pointing out that, you know, it's 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.920 been long fashionable in human culture to steal treasures and 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.559 art from a defeated adversary um and stuff to blow 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.199 your mind. We had a couple of episodes about the 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.160 Ark of the Covenant, and of course the stories of 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.920 the Ark of the Covenant involved it's uh, it's captured 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.680 by the Philistines and later it's captured and possible destruction 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.520 by the Babylonians, and the Philistines were said to have 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.360 displayed the captured arc in their own temple of Dagon. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.320 Uh though of course, uh, you know this we don't 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.040 know to what extent this you know, there's reality behind this, 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.400 or if it's just a myth, etcetera. But still it 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.120 drives home that, like this is this is the sort 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.560 of thing people did. Uh. They they were to crush 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.960 or defeat an enemy, sacked their cities where they would 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.680 take their their treasured items back with them. Right now. 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.680 Another case from from history that that kind of lines 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.479 up with with a lot of this are the Roman triumphs, 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:55.040 in which the treasures, art, wealth, and armies of defeated 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.760 enemies were marched through the city as a spectacle. Uh, 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.120 and you know, along with captive of some to be 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.840 executed or displayed. Further so, sort of a you know, 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.720 an even more intense example of sort of the more 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:11.400 brutal aspects of museum like enterprises. Seem to recall, there's 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.080 a scene of this Entitus Andronicus, I think, where there's 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.320 like a yeah, there's like a parade of the enemies. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.320 Yeah they defeated some Germanic tribe or something, right, and 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.320 yeah they're they're the famous accounts of that, you know, 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.880 and it's kind of like this awful Roman circus of 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:31.520 of you know that it's read rather uncomfortable to contemplate um, 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.160 and so we we don't want that to be our museums. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.000 But then again, like there, the shadow of that is 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.480 cast over even our modern museums. And of course in 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.320 the even in just in the last century, we've we've 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:47.360 seen museums raided, looted, or destroyed due to military action. So, 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.000 you know, it's sad like continues to be the case 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.880 that when when groups of people go to war with 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:58.560 each other, um treasures, artifacts, items of historical or cultural 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:04.960 importance are often targeted. Now the like rooms full of 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.320 artifacts are not only created when say, you know, a 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.120 conquering power or colonial power or something goes and takes 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.840 from one culture and brings back home. People also create 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.520 rooms full of artifacts from their own culture. I mean 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.920 a common way you find this is in tombs in 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.640 the ancient world exactly, yeah, I mean unstuffable in your mind. 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.760 Especially we've discussed the tombs of ancient Egypt, the tombs 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.800 of ancient China, uh, and these are you know, these 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.000 are examples where generally it has to do with some 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.440 contemplation of the afterlife, or the at least the idea 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.000 that if if there is not a world for the 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.880 ruler to pass into and presumably take their things, then 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:47.240 there is still some continuation of identity in the body 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.560 that is preserved, and therefore the the items, the wealth, 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.240 all the material possessions or some form of them need 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.000 to be preserved there as well. Yeah, so it's kind 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:57.800 of like a museum, but for the most part you 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.720 are not invited to enter too generally, it's it's looked 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.440 down upon. It's not designed to serve an educational purpose, 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.000 and it doesn't have interpretive materials. These are these are 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.800 just I'm taking all my lute to the next world, right, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.560 and I might put a crossbow trap in there just 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.480 in case you try and enter. Now another we we 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.679 touched a little bit on this already bringing up Dagon, 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.200 But uh Temple is another example of something that's kind 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.320 of like a museum, a place where valuable and important 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.920 artifacts may well be displayed for lots of people, if 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.280 not everybody, then at least for a key demographic to 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.960 view and admire. And in many cases the works are 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.280 instructional in nature, you know, a means of seeing the 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:43.480 form of a god or goddesses, or visually contemplating complex 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.760 theological concepts like one sees so particularly in Tibetan art. 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:52.760 I mean, I think about the relics and uh, the 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:57.000 ways that many Catholic basilicas will say preserve the remains 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.480 of a sainted person. Yeah yeah, and then yeah, so 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.200 we kind of have a dash of the tomb there 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:05.080 as well. But there's something kind of museum e about 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.159 that here is an object from the past, it's on 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.560 display for people to come look at. Yeah. Yeah. And 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.879 then there's also the shrine, which you know, can be 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.320 something like a tomb and something like a temple. But 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:19.080 of course there are secular versions of this as well 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.760 throughout the world. I mean, you go to Washington, d c. 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:24.480 And you have all the you go to these monuments, 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.160 these essentially shrines, and these you know, often are about 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:32.480 celebrating something that is tied to cultural or national heritage. 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.359 Large scale statues as well, public statues are generally a 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.800 good example of this as well. Right now, speaking of shrine, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:44.800 this actually brings us to the word museum itself. So 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:50.160 museum derives from the Latin what is it tomson, which 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:54.040 means precisely. This a shrine to the muses. Um, the 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:58.680 muses of course, with the Greek goddesses of creativity and inspiration. Yeah. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.239 So so we've got to trying to the muses as 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.639 the muse on and then that becomes the idea of 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.960 the museum. I guess that that word is coined probably 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.040 much later, to refer to what we think of this museums. Right. 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.080 For instance, if we go back to the third century 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.640 b C. We have the Museum of Alexandria to consider, 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.439 which included the famed Library of Alexandria, and it was 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.480 founded by Ptolemy the first Soter and noted for being 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.600 who is noted for being the traveling companion and chronicler 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.680 of Alexander the Great. However, the museum in this case 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.040 was was not a display of collected art, but a 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.080 center of learning that ultimately has more in common with 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.879 a university. Uh, you know that we might think of today. 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:43.560 Um and uh, this was seemingly destroyed in the late 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:48.280 third century see um. But yeah, more more like a university, 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.280 a place of learning, a place where learned individuals would 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.320 gather and celebrate knowledge. So you've got a lot of 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.040 stuff kind of like this in the ancient world, but 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:03.160 nothing that is quite like we think of a modern museum, right, Yeah, 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.680 I mean you can you can make a case that 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.840 specific museums or museums in general reflect these general attitudes 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.600 to this day. But yeah, none of these. You can't 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:14.040 look at any of these and go like, oh, that 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:15.840 was a museum, and it's like no, one, no, it 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.040 was a treasure hoard. It was really more of a temple. 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.560 So indeed, museums are would seem to be more of 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:25.359 a modern venture, right, largely rooted in the private wonder 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:30.240 rooms or cabinets of curiosities, uh, that individuals and families had, 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.720 and then the more modern museums tend to emerge out 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:34.919 of these traditions. In fact, you know, if you look 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.879 around for some of the example, the oldest examples of 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.399 things that are museums, uh you know, a few that 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.679 often pop Two that often pop up are the Capital 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:48.119 line museums. The oldest public collections. The oldest public collection 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.520 of art in the world. This is in Rome dates 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.639 back to fourteen seventy one and Pope six to the 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.520 fourth donation of art to the people of Rome. You 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.840 have the Vatican museums have their origin a public in 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:05.760 public display in fifteen oh six under Pope Julius the Second. 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.000 But uh, and we might be tempted to stop there, 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:11.760 right and say, oh, well, okay, well there you go. 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.360 This is these are some of the earliest examples, but uh, 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:17.920 there is a much older example we're gonna get to 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:22.560 in this episode that certainly predates anything that happened with 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.480 the Catholic Church. Yeah, and this one, also, I guess, 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.480 is a matter of interpretation, because what you define as 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.880 a museum is going to be a matter of interpretation. 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.080 But this is going to be, uh, the earliest known museum, 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:39.119 according to the great British archaeologist Charles Leonard Woolley. So 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.080 we don't know for sure when the first museum was created, 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.679 but I think there's a really reasonable chance that the 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.280