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Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty and relationships. It's the Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.

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Speaker 2: Men's sexuality coach Taylor Clark Johnson is here. Do you

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Speaker 2: go by Taylor Clark Johnson the full name?

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Speaker 3: Not in social context? No, Okay, people just call me Taylor.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So that was that's your Instagram handle, That's where

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Speaker 2: I got that. But I was thinking when I was

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Speaker 2: prepping for this podcast, every sex expert that I have

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Speaker 2: had on the podcast did not start this way. They

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Speaker 2: obviously got into the business they are in because there

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Speaker 2: was some part of their life, their sexuality, their sex

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Speaker 2: lives that.

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Speaker 4: Just was not good.

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Speaker 2: It was either dysfunctional, disappointing, or what you describe yours

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Speaker 2: as as a complete disaster. So can you tell us

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Speaker 2: a little bit about your story and just how you

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Speaker 2: got into the work that you're doing now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me here. Yeah, my previous sex

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Speaker 3: life was a disaster one hundred percent. I struggled with

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Speaker 3: premature ejaculation. I was the guy that would ejaculate in

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Speaker 3: instantly or thirty seconds or less than a minute on

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Speaker 3: a regular basis. I was I went through a period

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Speaker 3: of time of avoiding women completely because I was afraid

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Speaker 3: of being flirtatious with them because inevitably that would lead

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Speaker 3: to sex. You know, inevitably I would be the guy

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Speaker 3: that would come to so you and I didn't even

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Speaker 3: want to take that risk. So I just didn't talk

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Speaker 3: to women for a while. It was safer that way.

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Speaker 3: And then I also struggled with erectile dysfunction because I

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Speaker 3: watched a lot of porn and I went through a

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Speaker 3: phase of being addicted to porn and that really impacted

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Speaker 3: my relationships as well. And I was a sexual mess.

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Speaker 3: I had a lot of sexual anxiety. I had low

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Speaker 3: self worth as a man because I couldn't sexually, quote

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Speaker 3: unquote perform. I couldn't provide or even have a good

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Speaker 3: extended love making experience, Like even the concept of love

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Speaker 3: making was foreign to me because I couldn't get there,

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Speaker 3: you know, like sex began and then it was over,

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Speaker 3: or it didn't begin at all because I was too anxious.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, it was rough, it was rough, So I

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Speaker 3: made it long story short. I made a decision at

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Speaker 3: a certain point to fix all that. I realized, I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to be happy if I go through my

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Speaker 3: entire life like this. Like, I have to know what

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Speaker 3: it's like to have good sex and to have a

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Speaker 3: good relationship and be a good lover. Like, I've got

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Speaker 3: to know what that's like. Certainly, all these people who

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Speaker 3: are saying that they're having those experiences aren't lying, So

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Speaker 3: there must be something great out there. I want to

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Speaker 3: know what that is.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So it's not like you just woke up the

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Speaker 2: next day though, and had amazing sex. What does it

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Speaker 2: look like when you decide I want to have amazing

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Speaker 2: sex in my life. Yet my life is a complete

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Speaker 2: disaster in this area, Like where do you start?

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Speaker 3: You prayed to the sex fairy and she comes down

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Speaker 3: at midnight the day after your prayer and taps you

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Speaker 3: on the forehead and your third eye and says, boom,

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Speaker 3: you are good to go.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, wouldn't that be nice?

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Speaker 3: It would you know? It would be On the one hand,

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Speaker 3: it would be and on the other hand, it would

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Speaker 3: really be robbing men or anybody of the experience of

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Speaker 3: the process of self cultivation in the sexual realms, right.

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Speaker 3: I think so much in Western society we want that

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Speaker 3: immediate fix, we want that pill, we want that something

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Speaker 3: that's going to switch us overnight. The problem with that

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Speaker 3: is that doesn't build character, that doesn't build depth, that

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Speaker 3: doesn't build personality, that doesn't build story, authenticity, prep, you know,

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Speaker 3: all of that stuff, and all that stuff is really

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Speaker 3: important if you want to have manyful relationships, if you

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Speaker 3: want to have a deep experience of being alive, Like

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Speaker 3: your life can't be a quick fix. Your relationship can't

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Speaker 3: be a quick fix, because yeah, you're going to be

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Speaker 3: missing on the things that make life and relationship beautiful. Ultimately.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that you're saying the word quick fix,

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Speaker 2: because I do think that is a big part of

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Speaker 2: the way we look at sex. It's just like get

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Speaker 2: to the end, get to the orgasm, everything's fast, whatever

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Speaker 2: it is, even the like interaction before sex with people,

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Speaker 2: you know, like when you meet someone, a lot of

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Speaker 2: times were rushing into sex immediately.

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Speaker 4: So how did you start to just slow it down?

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Speaker 3: Gosh, that's a good question, you know, honestly, like the

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Speaker 3: concept of slowing it down didn't occur to me for

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Speaker 3: a while after I started that journey, Like the main

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Speaker 3: parts of my journey really started by exploring my addiction

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Speaker 3: to porn or my really unhealthy relationship with porn, because

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Speaker 3: I was in a relationship at that time with a

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Speaker 3: woman we were living together. I was watching porn and

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Speaker 3: masturbating to it every day, often ejaculating and feeling depleted

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Speaker 3: and feeling like I was not attracted to her because

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Speaker 3: I was constantly watching this porn and I didn't realize

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Speaker 3: that that was the thing that was making me not

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Speaker 3: attracted to her. So, you know, until I read a

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Speaker 3: bunch of books and I realized, Oh, if I stopped

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Speaker 3: watching porn for a couple of days, wouldn't you know,

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I'm more attracted to my partner. Right,

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Speaker 3: stopped watching for a week and a half, wouldn't you

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Speaker 3: know we have great sex, or at least sex, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: not great yet, but we had sex, and actually we're

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Speaker 3: not arguing as much. Yeah, you know. And that was like, huh,

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Speaker 3: there's really something to this. Maybe I should, Maybe I

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Speaker 3: should dive more deeply into this study.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about porn,

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Speaker 2: because you've mentioned it a couple times, and I mean, well,

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Speaker 2: I want to also get into a conversation about the

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Speaker 2: bigger issue of sexuality in our culture, but with porn specifically.

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Speaker 2: We've had a porn director and then a former porn

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Speaker 2: star on the podcast, and the questions I always ask

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Speaker 2: them are just what do you think about porn in relationships?

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Speaker 2: You know, there's like the big debate is it bad?

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Speaker 4: Is it good?

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Speaker 2: And like how do we know the answer? And everyone's

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Speaker 2: response has been somewhat just kind of neutral. Of it

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Speaker 2: depends on how you use it. So, as someone who

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Speaker 2: was addicted to porn, what are your feelings on that topic?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'll preface this by saying there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of debate on whether porn addiction is actually a thing

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Speaker 3: or not. And so regardless of that, I'll say I

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Speaker 3: had a very unhealthy relationship with porn that problematically impacted

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Speaker 3: my relationship, my sex life, and my friendships and my

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Speaker 3: ability to be financially successful in the world all of that.

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Speaker 3: So it really impacted my life, addiction, word usage, you know, aside,

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Speaker 3: like it was a problem. Right, So what do I

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Speaker 3: think about porn? I like to call porn cocaine for

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Speaker 3: your penis or cocaine for your sexual response cycle, at

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Speaker 3: least if we're talking about men, right, Like, sure, you

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Speaker 3: can do it, and it can be fun, and you

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Speaker 3: can do it occasionally and it's not going to deeply

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Speaker 3: impact you. But like very rare is the person who

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Speaker 3: can do cocaine every day and not have it impact

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Speaker 3: them negatively in some way? Very rare is it the

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Speaker 3: man who can watch porn by himself every day and

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Speaker 3: not have it negatively impact his life or relationships in

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Speaker 3: some way. So, on the one hand, yes, it does

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Speaker 3: depend on how you use it and the frequency of that.

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Speaker 3: And also, like I think it's very inherently a risky

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Speaker 3: thing for men to do. Now, I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: say like it's one hundred percent bad, black and white

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Speaker 3: that is the answer to you. There are some like healthy,

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Speaker 3: healthier uses of porn, but the research is pretty clear

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Speaker 3: it impacts the male brain in a way similar to

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Speaker 3: addictive drug use. And also research shows that men who

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Speaker 3: watch porn alone it for sure, like no questions asked,

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Speaker 3: like reduces their relationship satisfaction, your sexual satisfaction, like all

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Speaker 3: this stuff. You know. So that's a really interesting thing

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Speaker 3: because watching porn in isolation has a fundamentally different impact

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Speaker 3: on a man than if they were to watch porn

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Speaker 3: with their romantic sexual partner. My theory on that is

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Speaker 3: that if you're watching porn with your partner, you have

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Speaker 3: actual human connection there with somebody in the moment. You

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Speaker 3: can share that experience with them, and you're not having

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Speaker 3: this sexual experience with pixels on a screen. That's lacking

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Speaker 3: in human connection that I think does something fundamentally generally

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Speaker 3: problematic to the brain and the sexual response system. You know. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm a pause there and see, Yeah, well, I like.

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Speaker 2: The way you just said that about even if it

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Speaker 2: involves a person with you, like your partner, it becomes

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Speaker 2: more of an exchange than just looking at a screen.

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Speaker 2: And so because that's what the research talks about with

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Speaker 2: our brains, right, like, you're completely disconnecting from your body.

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Speaker 2: It's like, I don't even know the terminology, so I

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Speaker 2: don't want to speak to it, but that's what I

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Speaker 2: hear is the way that it impacts your brain is

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Speaker 2: just because it's again that quick instant fix. It's not

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Speaker 2: really like a body can. It's just messing up our brains.

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Speaker 2: And so we start associating that with sex because we

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Speaker 2: have orgasm to that, right, Is am I going?

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Speaker 4: Is this the right direction?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 4: Am I saying this? Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: Though?

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Speaker 4: What I'm trying to say?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it can impact different people in a lot

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Speaker 3: of different ways, for sure, But like, but my experience

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Speaker 3: and what I've seen and hundreds of guys that I've

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Speaker 3: worked with, is that, Yeah, if you're regularly watching porn

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Speaker 3: and masturbating to porn and ejaculating in five minutes or less,

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Speaker 3: and most people watch porn for a total of less

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Speaker 3: than ten minutes at a time, so that you're kind

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Speaker 3: of looking for that hit. You know, you're looking fixed, right,

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Speaker 3: So you're training your sexual response system to get aroused

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Speaker 3: and ejaculate in a short amount of time, and you're

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Speaker 3: training your sexual response system to be habituated to be

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Speaker 3: used to really high intensity stimulus. Right, Okay, no one

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Speaker 3: human is ever going to be able to compare to

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Speaker 3: porn on a screen that is professionally edited by talented

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Speaker 3: editors to be as a visually stimulating as possible. Flashing

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Speaker 3: from you know, an image of genitals interacting with genitals

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Speaker 3: to genitals in mouth, three genitals together, so like bam, bam, bam,

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Speaker 3: bam bam. You know, yeah, nothing nothing compares to that.

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Speaker 3: It's I think it's what's called a super stimulus in

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Speaker 3: the world of brain research and psychology because it's so

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Speaker 3: intense it just overloads everything else.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Well I'll just say this one other thing. And so

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Speaker 3: I struggled with porn induced erectile dysfunction in a while.

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Speaker 3: And what that looked like was I could actually get

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Speaker 3: an erection in the beginning of sex, but then that

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Speaker 3: erection would fade in about ninety seconds or so sixty

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Speaker 3: seconds ninety seconds, And in retrospect, I've learned that I

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Speaker 3: can see it's because my partner wasn't immediately changing camera

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Speaker 3: angles and going on to the next video, in the

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Speaker 3: next scene and becoming a new person. Right, So I

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Speaker 3: got aroused because oh, second beginning, but then there's no

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Speaker 3: way she could compare to the constantly changing scenes in

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Speaker 3: the videos and all this stuff. So I didn't have

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Speaker 3: enough stimulus to keep me aroused. And so when I

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Speaker 3: stopped watching porn, my erection would sustain itself and I

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Speaker 3: would become more habituated to well, I would become more

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Speaker 3: attracted to my partner and find her natural beauty more

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Speaker 3: arousing because my system wasn't used to this super stimulus.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense, Totally makes sense. And the people that

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Speaker 2: we interviewed, both the director and the former porn star,

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Speaker 2: made a point to talk about how much of it later,

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Speaker 2: like this is for entertainment. We're acting the scenes like

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Speaker 2: they're mapped out three minutes here. Then you switch positions

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Speaker 2: to this three minutes. So exactly what you're describing it

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Speaker 2: is done in formed for a target on our brains,

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Speaker 2: like to hit those those dopamine hits or whatever you

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Speaker 2: want to call it. So just like you're saying, it's

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Speaker 2: not at all like real life, and either people making

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Speaker 2: it or even saying that, I think it's really interesting totally.

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Speaker 3: People who are legit porn stars they know and they

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Speaker 3: don't have they don't have sex like that in their

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Speaker 3: personal relationships.

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Speaker 4: No, they don't.

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Speaker 2: They all said that they don't watch porn, which I

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Speaker 2: thought was really interesting because they're like, once you see

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Speaker 2: how it's made, it kind of loses its luster, right,

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Speaker 2: Like it's not it's a total just just an entertainment

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Speaker 2: industry like anything else.

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Speaker 3: For sure, Like I remember talking, I think I was

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Speaker 3: either talking with somebody or listening to on a podcast interview.

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Speaker 3: I don't know lots of conversations sure on this, but

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Speaker 3: I remember, yeah, one person talking about how they were

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Speaker 3: getting paid as a porn star to have sex with

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Speaker 3: another porn star that they both hated each other, but

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Speaker 3: they had to act like they were enjoying it for

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Speaker 3: the camera, and like thousands of people are probably masturbating.

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Speaker 4: To that, right, you know?

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Speaker 3: Like what?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: That immediately makes me go, well, what is wrong with

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Speaker 2: our culture? And so let's ask that question when you

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Speaker 2: are working with the men that you're working with. And

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Speaker 2: I actually heard you and Layla talk about this, but

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Speaker 2: like the way that our current system is, y'all said,

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Speaker 2: we're all suffering. So what in your work? What are

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Speaker 2: you seeing? And how do you think in the current

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Speaker 2: system that we have around sexuality and culture? Like why

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Speaker 2: are we all suffering? What does that mean?

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Speaker 3: God? Well, that's a huge question.

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Speaker 4: Okay, we'll break it down however you need to.

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Speaker 3: I well, I think are Yeah, what direction would I go?

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Speaker 3: There's so many different directions. I think as a society,

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Speaker 3: we are fundamentally suffering from a lack of community and

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Speaker 3: from isolation and from hyper individualism that keeps us all

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Speaker 3: separate and isolated in our own little bubble. And especially

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Speaker 3: as men were socialized to not ask for help or

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Speaker 3: socialized to keep everything internal, not express emotions, not be vulnerable.

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Speaker 3: This sort of thing, and that makes us go even

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Speaker 3: more inward and isolate, and of course rates of depression

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Speaker 3: our skyrocketing, and men isolation like suicide, like all this stuff,

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Speaker 3: you know. So there's a whole context of our culture

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Speaker 3: that doesn't support healthy human interaction. And on top of that,

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Speaker 3: we have a really skewed societal view on sex that says, oh,

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Speaker 3: don't talk about sex, don't have sex. Really like sex

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Speaker 3: isn't cool, but we're gonna throw sexual advertising at you

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Speaker 3: every day and you can't, you know, on TikTok, you

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Speaker 3: can't have healthy sex ed conversations, but you can have

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Speaker 3: a woman dancing in a string thong that doesn't cover

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Speaker 3: her entire asshole that's covering the camera, and that's allowed, right,

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Speaker 3: I can't say the word ejaculation. So it's all fucked up.

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Speaker 3: Like our whole context is very unhealthy with this, And

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Speaker 3: I want to be clear, like I don't want to

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Speaker 3: shame anybody for getting hooked into watching porn and for

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Speaker 3: getting aroused by watching porn, because it's a very natural

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Speaker 3: response to get aroused by sexual stimuli. Like we're sexual

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Speaker 3: beings and it's healthy to want to have sex. And

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Speaker 3: because of all the repression because of all this stuff

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Speaker 3: like porn is just you know, here I can pick

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Speaker 3: up my phone and look at and I can watch

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Speaker 3: any video about any topic. I could possibly imagine this

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Speaker 3: right here, right my phone, at my fingertips, and it's

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Speaker 3: just it's a very easy access point to sexuality in

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Speaker 3: a culture where sexuality is not easily discussed or accessed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what I was thinking when I was listening to

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Speaker 2: y'all talk on the podcast was this is the kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff we need to be teaching in school. Like

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Speaker 2: why are we even studying geometry like this? It's not

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Speaker 2: like you use it when you go out into society

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Speaker 2: as an adult. Yet, Like, just like you said, we

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Speaker 2: don't we don't know how to have sex.

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Speaker 4: We don't know how to have healthy sex.

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Speaker 2: We don't know how to have a relationship with ourselves

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Speaker 2: around sex because we're never taught. Like it's not really

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Speaker 2: anyone's fault that we don't have that, but we just

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Speaker 2: are never taught. Our parents were never taught, and there

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Speaker 2: was so much repression. So when you have men coming

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Speaker 2: to you these days, is there like a number one

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Speaker 2: thing you're seeing or a consistent theme that they're struggling

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Speaker 2: with with what when they would reach out to you

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Speaker 2: like why.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, it's also because I really position myself as

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Speaker 3: somebody who can help with a certain set of things

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Speaker 3: right right, Like I can help guys who are struggling

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Speaker 3: with premature ejaculation. I have a lot of content around

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Speaker 3: there they come to me for that. I can help

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Speaker 3: guys who are not having the kind of sex life

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Speaker 3: they want, I can help them have a better sex life.

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Speaker 3: And it's because I put content out around that I

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Speaker 3: can help guys who are struggling with erectile dysfunction and

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Speaker 3: guys who are struggling with porn addiction, also guys who

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Speaker 3: are feeling like they're just lacking a charge in life

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Speaker 3: in general. And that's because like, those are all things

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Speaker 3: that I personally struggle with and I can relate to,

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Speaker 3: and I've also studied in depth and it feels like

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Speaker 3: those are really good, easy access points for me to

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Speaker 3: connect with guys about this and help them. But I

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Speaker 3: would say that guys who are coming to me for

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Speaker 3: anything like erectile dysfunction or sexual anxiety or premature ejaculation

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Speaker 3: or not feeling the zested in life, like probably like

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Speaker 3: ninety plus percent of them have had an unhealthy relationship

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Speaker 3: with porn, okay, just like I have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it seems very common these days, Like

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Speaker 2: it's something I hear about all the time for sure. Well,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about a little bit some of those ways

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Speaker 2: that we can get to the other side of that.

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Speaker 2: So we talked about the current system, how it's not

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Speaker 2: really set up to support us, and then how everyone's

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Speaker 2: sort of like left to kind of just figure it out.

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Speaker 4: That's what I feel like.

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Speaker 2: It feels like we were these young kids just like

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Speaker 2: thrown out into the world, and like you said, we're

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Speaker 2: sexual beings, but we're also shamed for that at the

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Speaker 2: same time. So it's very confusing. But one of the

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Speaker 2: main things that I hear as far as sex amongst

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Speaker 2: my friend groups and stuff is that the people, especially

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Speaker 2: the people who've been married for a long time or

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Speaker 2: in long term relationships, they're just feeling really dissatisfied. And

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Speaker 2: it's sort of the mentality that I hear a lot

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Speaker 2: is like, well, you know, we've just married this long

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Speaker 2: or whatever, and it's sort of just like that is

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Speaker 2: how it is. Just accept it. And I don't agree

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Speaker 2: with that. And the more that i've talked to people

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Speaker 2: like you had another expert one. Her name is Susan

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Speaker 2: Bratton and she is in her sixties. She's been married

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Speaker 2: over thirty years and says she's having the best sex

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Speaker 2: of her life. And so she's teaching people about that.

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Speaker 2: And I just wonder, why do you think we as

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Speaker 2: a society just have that mentality of you know, like,

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Speaker 2: this is just.

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Speaker 4: How it is.

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Speaker 2: But why are we also why are we mostly dissatisfied

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Speaker 2: in the sex we're having in long term relationships?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Wow, that's another huge question. I just want to

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Speaker 3: start by normalizing and saying that most of us did

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Speaker 3: most of us got horrible or non existent education around sex. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: My sex education in the public school system was basically like,

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Speaker 3: don't have sex. If you do, you'll get somebody pregnant,

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Speaker 3: or you'll get AIDS and you'll die. Right, that's extreme.

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Speaker 3: As extreme as that, you know, like, holy shit, that's horrible,

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Speaker 3: but I want it, you know. So I ventured into

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Speaker 3: that realm with no preparation, and and you know what,

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Speaker 3: too many unhealthy experiences of sex and like perpetuated things

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Speaker 3: that I saw in porn and and did porn like

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Speaker 3: things with women who didn't know better because they were

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Speaker 3: learning about sex either from me, who learned from porn,

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Speaker 3: or from their friends who likely learned from porn. And

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Speaker 3: it's just this whole context of a lack of sex education.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's something like fifty percent of young

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Speaker 3: men today say that porn is their biggest source of

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Speaker 3: education around what sex actually is, which is terrifying.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I can circle back to what we said.

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Speaker 2: All the people doing porn and making porn are saying

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Speaker 2: that it is entertainment, not education, right.

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Speaker 3: And that like even though they're saying that, they're not

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Speaker 3: saying that in the porn videos, Like there's not a

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Speaker 3: disclaimer that comes up in the first ten seconds of

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Speaker 3: porn have right, by the way, the video you're about

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Speaker 3: to watch of us fucking is fake, but it's edited

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Speaker 3: to make it look real. So consider that while you're masturbating, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: of course that's not they're not going to say that

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Speaker 3: because they're driven by ad revenue. They're driven by money,

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Speaker 3: and it's it. That's you know, and we're going on

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Speaker 3: a tangent here, but like I do, I am really

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Speaker 3: frustrated with that system. It's like they're making this content

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Speaker 3: to make money. And they're making money off of people's distress,

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Speaker 3: off of societal distress around not knowing how to have

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Speaker 3: a healthy sex life and getting hooked by these hyper stimulus.

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Speaker 3: So it's this vicious cycle and it keeps people in

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Speaker 3: these really unhealthy places. Ultimately, people are the ones keeping

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Speaker 3: themselves in these unhealthy places, but I don't think for

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Speaker 3: the most part, porn is helping them with that. So

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Speaker 3: we did a huge tangent from your question of like,

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Speaker 3: why are people dissatisfied in their current Yes, I would

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Speaker 3: say that a lot of people are really dissatisfied in

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Speaker 3: their current sexual relationships. And I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people just throw in the towel because there's there are

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Speaker 3: not models of how to improve your sex in your

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Speaker 3: relationship right, Like there's not guides to that. Like all

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Speaker 3: we see in the mainstream media and movies is people

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Speaker 3: getting into love, falling in love, and having hot sex

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Speaker 3: in the first beginning, you know, part of that relationship,

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Speaker 3: and then the movie ends or the TV show ends.

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Speaker 3: We don't see shows or movies where people are seven

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Speaker 3: years in and they're actually doing the work on their

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Speaker 3: relationship that it takes to sustain a long term relationship.

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Speaker 3: And have good sex seven years in so there's no

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Speaker 3: models for it. So people are like, well, I guess

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Speaker 3: this is just how it goes. I guess I either

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Speaker 3: will cheat or break up or something else to have

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Speaker 3: hot sex again, you know. And I think that's the

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Speaker 3: majority of people. I've definitely fallen into that trap, you know.

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Speaker 3: And now I'm in a process of viewing long term

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Speaker 3: relationships as something that is it does take work, and

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Speaker 3: it does take work. Shopping our relationship, especially after like

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Speaker 3: my partner and I she a woman, and we bought

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Speaker 3: a house in Asheville about four months ago, moved in together.

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Speaker 3: That's a whole other stressor you know. But we've decided

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Speaker 3: that now we're we're committing to doing regular weekly relationship

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Speaker 3: workshops where we kind of self cultivate the things that

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Speaker 3: we're wanting to learn and listen to an audio book

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Speaker 3: together and do different practices and exercises together, specifically to

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Speaker 3: work on our triggers and our challenges and build deeper

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Speaker 3: intimacy with each other because we're out of the honeymoon phase.

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Speaker 3: And what I've noticed is after doing that, even just

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Speaker 3: for a little bit, like our sex life is going

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Speaker 3: back up again. Yeah, totally, and we went through a

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Speaker 3: period of time where our sex life wasn't that great

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Speaker 3: to be honest, like, yeah, yes, I'm in this position

435
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 3: as sex coach, et cetera. Also, I've never bought a

436
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 3: house before and done all this stuff, and like I

437
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 3: still have to deal with all the you know, the

438
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 3: realities of the humanists of everything. Yeah, but I do

439
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 3: really feel like it's important for me to and I

440
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 3: want to to really study sex and relationship and do

441
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 3: the best job that I can possibly do a because

442
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 3: I want that for myself and be because I want

443
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 3: to be able to help other people doing it too.

444
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

445
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 2: Well, and what I'm so grateful for the fact that

446
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: you know there's people like you doing this work and

447
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 2: putting it out there on podcast and things like that,

448
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 2: is that it was something I think I've heard you

449
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: say this somewhere and I cannot remember exactly where, but

450
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 2: when we walk into sex, and especially when we're in

451
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 2: long term relationships, it's well to me, this is one

452
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 2: of the main issues of society's problem with sex. But

453
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 2: like we just expect ourselves to be good at it, right,

454
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: which it's like, where do we think that we would be?

455
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: I guess from porn, like you're saying, or our boyfriend,

456
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 2: our first boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever, like.

457
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 4: You think, Okay, I've got this figured out. But it's a.

458
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,479
Speaker 2: Constantly evolving thing, right, and like your wants and your

459
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 2: needs and your desires change, and so it's one of

460
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: those things that I think we'll be learning about for

461
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: the rest of our lives if we want a big,

462
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: happy sex life. But instead we kind of just like

463
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 2: shut it down and pretend like we know about it,

464
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: we know what this is, and then we get dissatisfied.

465
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: To me, I'm like, well, of course, like, of course

466
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: you do, because if you're not growing or dying mentality,

467
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: Like do you see that a lot? Which part the

468
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: part about people just kind of being like, well, I

469
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: don't know, like they're not learning anything but basically like

470
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 2: just showing up and expecting it to be great anyway.

471
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a strange phenomenon when it comes to sex

472
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 3: in our culture, because yeah, nothing else works like that.

473
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 3: Like you don't expect to all of a sudden be

474
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 3: good at playing guitar, Yeah, you know, you don't expect

475
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: to be good at playing doing jiu jitsu, Like you

476
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 3: don't expect to be good at that after six months

477
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 3: of regular practice of either of those things, Like, it

478
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: takes a while to cultivate these things. Yet somehow in sex,

479
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 3: maybe because it's quote unquote a natural thing to do,

480
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: we think, oh, we should just be good at it.

481
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 3: But how could we possibly be good at it? Our

482
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: entire societal context is fucked up around it, and we're

483
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 3: showing really unhealthy images and stories of it regularly. So

484
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 3: at least, at the very least, we have to decondition

485
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 3: all the things that we've learned to start from baseline again.

486
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 3: Then you could build new things on top of that. Yeah,

487
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 3: but I do want to jump back maybe a minute

488
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 3: and just give a reference point to a book that

489
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 3: has been really helpful for us that we're working through now.

490
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 3: It's called Getting the Love You Want by Harvill Hendrix.

491
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've heard of that book.

492
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 4: I have heard of it, I haven't read it, though.

493
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 3: For us it's great. We're listening to it together and

494
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 3: doing the exercises together, and it's really helpful to shift

495
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 3: the frame of like, what is the point of long

496
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 3: term relationship? You know, is it just to have a

497
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: friend and a sex buddy, or is it to evolve

498
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 3: and help each other be the most amazing resourced beings

499
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: that you could possibly be. And if that's the case,

500
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 3: how do you actually do that? So I don't claim

501
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 3: to be an expert in that particular domain. I claim

502
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: to be very good at the actual acts of sex

503
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 3: and helping people do that. I'm still I'm very much

504
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 3: a student right now in the the cultivation of extended

505
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 3: and continual charge in long term relationship. If that makes sense.

506
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: It makes total sense, and I think I'm glad you

507
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: mentioned that book. I'll put that in the description of

508
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: the podcast for you guys, because I do think that

509
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 2: that it kind of ties back into the whole thing

510
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: of just expecting us to be good, expecting you stay

511
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 2: in a relationship, you get in a relationship, it's long

512
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 2: term because that's what we're supposed to do.

513
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 4: I'm doing air quotes or whatever.

514
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 2: But the whys, Like I love that, Why are we

515
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 2: doing this? What's the point? What is my goal here?

516
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 2: You know? The growing, the constantly growing and things like that.

517
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about heart connected

518
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 2: sex because it's something that you talk about a lot.

519
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: It's something Susan Bratt and the other sex expert I

520
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 2: mentioned talks about and to me, it's kind of what

521
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: we're missing in our culture when we talk about sex

522
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: in general, Like we've referenced porn a million times. That

523
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: is kind of like fucking a lot of times, you know,

524
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: And there's a difference. And I think that a lot

525
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 2: of the dissatisfaction that I've seen amongst friends or I

526
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 2: know in my own personal sex life has been because

527
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: you're just going through the motions. You're not like feeling

528
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: each other. So can you talk a little bit about

529
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: what heart connected sex is because I just don't even

530
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: know that. People know, yeah, you're smile.

531
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just thinking about which direction to go, and

532
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 3: I don't know that. I like I think in my

533
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 3: programs when I'm working with men, I don't use the

534
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: phrase heart connected sex.

535
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 4: Okay, what do you use?

536
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 3: I'm I don't know, Like I'm thinking about, like what

537
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 3: would I call it? I would just say love making? Okay,

538
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,239
Speaker 3: love making? Like I've learned to be really intentional with

539
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 3: semantics and the word choices that I use because I've

540
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 3: like my younger self and a lot of guys are

541
00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: really primed to discredit and and shove away things that

542
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 3: maybe sound frue through or things that sound unaccessible, like, oh,

543
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 3: I really want to have heart connected sex with you.

544
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 4: It's a girl thing, right right.

545
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 3: Like I get, like I totally empathize with and get

546
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: the underlying needs of that. Still, if you go and

547
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 3: say that to most men, I'm gonna go build my

548
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: outdoor shower.

549
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, you know what I mean.

550
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 3: But I think most guys can really understand and resonate

551
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 3: with the term love making, at least in my experience.

552
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 2: You know, But as a man, does that sound appealing

553
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: or is that sort of still in the same mentality

554
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: as this heart connect Like do guys even want to

555
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: participate in love making?

556
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: Yes? Okay, lots of men do. I will also say

557
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: that not all men are at that point currently, Like

558
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 3: there's a lot of guys who are still like in

559
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: the fucking cycle, you know, just seeing sex is another

560
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 3: method to get off. It's like ooh I want I

561
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 3: have tension, I need release, hot woman boom? Yeah whoever done? Right? Yeah,

562
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: But there's a huge amount of men who realize that

563
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 3: that sort of paradigm is outdated and it doesn't actually

564
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,239
Speaker 3: help them live the full life that they want to

565
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 3: live and have the kinds of relationships that they ultimately

566
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 3: want to have. And I know that's the case because

567
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 3: I'm seeing it in my courses. I'm seeing it different

568
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: men's programs all over the world, different in person retreats,

569
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 3: all this stuff. Like, there's a huge uprising of men

570
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 3: right now who really want deeper relationships, who really want

571
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: love making, but who also want to be able to

572
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: have the raw fuck in their sex life too. Sure, yeah,

573
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: and those things aren't mutually exclusive.

574
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 4: I agree with that, you know.

575
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what so what does love making look like? Right? Yes,

576
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 3: so it could look like a lot of different things.

577
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: But in my mind, just to paint a baseline picture,

578
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 3: love making versus fucking includes presence. It includes not being

579
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 3: distracted thinking about other things, and it includes a certain

580
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 3: level of vulnerability and openness and attraction to the beingness

581
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 3: of the person that you're with versus just their physical attraction.

582
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 3: It's like there's an attraction to their emotionality, to their needs,

583
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,239
Speaker 3: to their desires, like connection on a deeper level, Like

584
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: maybe you do feel something in your heart, maybe you don't,

585
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: but there's a deeper sort of care that's present there

586
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: in the love making experience. Versus just using somebody else

587
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: as like a masturbation sleeve. Yeah thing right, Yeah, it's

588
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 3: the kind of thing where you'll have sex and then

589
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 3: instead of getting up and leaving afterwards, you'll want to

590
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 3: stay there and look into each other's eyes, or even

591
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: if you do want to get up, you'll still at

592
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 3: least take a moment to make sure that you're both

593
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 3: connected and feeling like you've had a meaningful experience and

594
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 3: checking in like was that good for you? Or was

595
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 3: it not good for you? How are you doing? Like

596
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: there's a certain level of care that's inherent in that

597
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 3: that's different from just fucking yeah. If that makes sense,

598
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 3: you could take it to no, go ahead, well, and

599
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 3: then you could take it to another level when it's

600
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: just like you could say, well, I don't I don't

601
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: have a term for it, but the words that is

602
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 3: wanting to come through right now are soul fucking okay

603
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: to say that, Like, beyond love making, there's also this

604
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 3: place where you can enter into the deeper, energetic you

605
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: could call it ton tric or whatever, like conscious sexuality,

606
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 3: sacred sexuality, realms where you are deep in the love

607
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 3: making experience and you're breathing deeply and you're feeling more

608
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: than just your genitals. You're feeling your whole body. You're

609
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: feeling aliveness coursing through all parts of your body. There's

610
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 3: orgasmic energy flowing between the two of you. There's this

611
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: electric feeling in the air. A lot of people are

612
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: familiar with that within the first you know, six months

613
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 3: of a sexual connection. Yeah, but then like having that

614
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: happen beyond that, Like that's a real practice and that's

615
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: some real magic, and that's where like the transformational experiences

616
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 3: of sex can happen.

617
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: So if you're listening and you're like, well, shit, that

618
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: sounds amazing.

619
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 4: How do I get to that? What would your first

620
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 4: suggestion be?

621
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 3: Find somebody else who's also interested in them. Yeah, And

622
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 3: if you're single and you have a pattern of continuing

623
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: to date people who don't have that particular style of orientation,

624
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 3: like do some inner work and try to shift things

625
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 3: up and figure out how can you go for somebody

626
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: who will be more open to the kinds of experiences

627
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: you want. Yeah, Like that's a baseline, fundamental sort of thing.

628
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: If you are in relationship and you're wanting this, there

629
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 3: are some things you can do before you even ask

630
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 3: your partner to try to change anything about themselves. You

631
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: can start your own self pleasure practice and just dive

632
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: into your own breath, your own energetics, your own feeling,

633
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 3: your own whole body while you're self pleasuring, and see

634
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: what it's like to really like make love with yourself

635
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 3: and take yourself to those places. Then a lot of

636
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: times when you start sex with your partner from that place,

637
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 3: after you've done a little bit of self pleasure, you

638
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 3: can bring in a different flavor to the love making experience.

639
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 3: It's often quite erotic and really tantalizing for the other person.

640
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 3: That can sort of draw them into the deeper love

641
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: making experience. Now on that, well, you look like you're

642
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: gonna say something.

643
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: I was gonna tell you a story, but I can

644
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: save it far after this. You've actually already coached me

645
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: and you don't even know. But I'll tell you the

646
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: story after this.

647
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 3: Cool, So I'll say I'm gonna say one other piece

648
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 3: about porn, which is it becomes really tricky to draw

649
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 3: somebody into that experience if they're if it's a man

650
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: who is regularly watching porn by himself, and because and

651
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: I'll speak for my own personal experience, Like if I

652
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: get drawn into watching porn by myself, excuse me, it

653
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: sort of brings me into this mindset around sex that

654
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 3: is really focused on on these sort of the fucking mentality,

655
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 3: like the male view, the male gratification, like everything should

656
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 3: be serving me everything, Like it's just like that sort

657
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 3: of mindset. It kind of it can actually cut me

658
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 3: off from the deeper energetics of things. And see where

659
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 3: if I'm not acting out some kind of like of

660
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 3: a of a physical sexual fantasy or something, it's really

661
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 3: hard or impossible for me to access the deeper erotic

662
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 3: aliveness that exists between the two of us. So like

663
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 3: that's that's kind of an unseen barrier that can happen

664
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: for a lot of people, and a lot of people

665
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 3: don't realize that that's the case. A lot of guys

666
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: don't realize that that's the case too. But I'm here

667
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: to say from my own personal experience and working with

668
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 3: money hundreds of guys, that's definitely the case.

669
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: No, I believe it completely. I know that, like my

670
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,479
Speaker 2: current relationship, we've decided not to do that. And part

671
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: of it is because it becomes it's like the lazy

672
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 2: man's way to orgasm is kind of what we describe

673
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: it as, like it's fast. It's like you're this is

674
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: so pociating. Most of the time, it's just that sexual

675
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: urge and you get that hit really fast. And like

676
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: you said, then that's what you bring to your relationship

677
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: and the sex you're having with your partner, and that

678
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: isn't how real sex works, so then it just becomes dissatisfying.

679
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 2: And what the story I was going to tell you

680
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: is I heard you describing the self pleasure practice. I

681
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 2: think you talk about you went on a retreat I

682
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: believe it was, and they put you on like a

683
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: thirty day something self pleasure practice with no porn but

684
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: also no fantasy. And that is really like, that's what

685
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: I want to talk about for a second, because I

686
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: had never even associated the fact like that fantasy is

687
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: in the same similar way taking me out of my body,

688
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: and so that's always been a part of any sort

689
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: of self pleasuring practice that I have, and I heard

690
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: you talk about that on the podcast, and I was like,

691
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: all right, I'm just going to give this a go,

692
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: like let's just see what happens. And it's tricky, like

693
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: it took me as so like if anyone listening is

694
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,439
Speaker 2: a meditator for me, it was like I would have

695
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 2: visions still come like pop in my brain and I

696
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 2: would have to acknowledge them and send them away gently,

697
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 2: you know, that kind of thing, the same thing I

698
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: do while I meditate, but doing it in the way

699
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: where you take out any sort of porn, any sort

700
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: of fantasy. It was crazy the things I started to

701
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: learn about my own body. Like I was like, what

702
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: is happening. It was a much longer process, but I

703
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: was describing it to my boyfriend after and I'm telling him,

704
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god. And then I figured out

705
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 2: this and this and this, and it's like stuff that

706
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 2: I've always done, And so I knew those were things

707
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: that I liked, but I didn't know the specifics of

708
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 2: what was happening. So then I was able to tell him,

709
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: and then he's able to do that. Like it became

710
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: this like beautiful experience for both of us because we're

711
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: now able to incorporate new things into our sex life.

712
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, my experience with myself with that was so

713
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: much deeper than any other practice that I've ever had,

714
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: and the whole feeling it's like I almost felt high.

715
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 4: It was crazy.

716
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, So if you're open to sharing and just to

717
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 3: make it tangible, I wonder if you share, like what

718
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 3: is one of the things that you learned, just so

719
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: people can be like, oh, there's an example.

720
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: My mom's not with me, but I will so well,

721
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: I'm a cancer. And if anyone's into astrology, there's a

722
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: lot of sexual places, or if you study sexual astrology

723
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: at all, you can start to find different places that

724
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: your body actually responds much deeper in mine is like

725
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 2: a lot of nipple play. And so that was something

726
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: that I was just really cognizant of, like the actual

727
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: places and the ways in which that was really helping me.

728
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 2: And then I think for women a lot of times

729
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: like we can't orgasm without our clip being involved. But

730
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: like it was also the same thing where it's just

731
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 2: a general thing typically for me, and in this situation,

732
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 2: it was just much more specific of the hows and

733
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 2: the whys and the winds and the whares, and I

734
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: just I just found new places and it was crazy,

735
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 2: but I felt like in staying with myself, in my

736
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: body and out of my head, the whole experience was

737
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 2: just bigger. If that makes sense. Is that what you

738
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: were asking?

739
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it does make sense, and I was just

740
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 3: curious to hear, like, yeah, the nipple thing is really

741
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 3: useful and practical because like before that, it's like, oh,

742
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 3: theoretically this sounds nice, but like, what is something tangible

743
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 3: that you learned? And I like that? I like that?

744
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 3: So for example, for myself, like one thing that I

745
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 3: really like, I actually do like nipple sensation as well

746
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 3: on myself, and I noticed, like, strangely, my left nipple

747
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 3: gets it feels like twenty times more sensitive than my

748
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 3: right nipple for whatever reason, I can almost have an

749
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 3: orgasm from my girlfriend just licking my left nipple alone.

750
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 3: Yeah it's crazy, right, Yeah, it's crazy. But I also

751
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: learned in my self pleasure without fantasy experience that I

752
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: also really like sensation of touch on my perenium, which

753
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 3: is the area between my testicles and my atis like that,

754
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 3: sure there, it feels really nice and erotically. I wouldn't

755
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: have figured that out had I just been stuck in

756
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 3: fantasyland or pornland, you know.

757
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: Right, And why do you say that though, because why

758
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 2: like why wouldn't we figure that out?

759
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean you might right, like you might

760
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 3: figure it out, but it's very confronting to lay down

761
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 3: with yourself without fantasy, without porn, and start to masturbate,

762
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: to start self pleasure. Like you confront your thoughts, you

763
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 3: confront your racing mind, you can front any sort of

764
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 3: body pain or something about your body that you might

765
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 3: not feel comfortable with. You confront all this stuff and

766
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 3: it can be very uncomfortable at first, you know, and

767
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: you have to go through this exploration clash process. If

768
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 3: you're being truly authentic with yourself, okay, what is okay? Like?

769
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 3: What actually feels good? What if I touch myself here

770
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 3: and not so much? What if I touch myself here

771
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 3: not so much? What if I touch myself here? Oh

772
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 3: that's nice? Yeah, I like that. Oh there's a thought. Okay,

773
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 3: I'm gonna sit, come back to my body, okay, and

774
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 3: now I'm gonna try touching myself here, Like that's really cool.

775
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 3: And I would say that the word that's really helpful

776
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: to associate with this with is practice. Right, Like, if

777
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: if you're the person listening and you're thinking, okay, I'll

778
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 3: go try this, what's probably gonna happen is it's not

779
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 3: going to feel amazing. The first time. Yeah, if you're like.

780
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 4: You're kind of like, uh, what do I do? Like

781
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 4: it's sort of like that. Yeah.

782
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like it's a training practice, you know, where

783
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 3: you're training your nervous system and your sexual response system

784
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 3: to be open to a new kind of pleasure. That's

785
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 3: that's really your body's own. I like to say, it's

786
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 3: an internally generated arousal. It's not dependent on anything external,

787
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 3: Like no porn, no fantasy, no dissociation. It's like, what

788
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 3: is your actual aliveness yourself as an erotic being? Like

789
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: what turns you on? What sensations, what breath? How can

790
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 3: you feel alive without needing to go outside of yourself?

791
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: That can take a little time to access, but once

792
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 3: you do, it lights a certain kind of internal fire

793
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 3: that nothing else can touch. Really, Like it's just not

794
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 3: the same as fantasy.

795
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: And I'm so glad that you talked about the part

796
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: where you just go lay down by yourself and you're

797
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: kind of like, Okay, you know, am I gonna do

798
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: this without fantasy or anything like that, Because I will

799
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: say another thing that I forgot to mention is that

800
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 2: when I started that process, because I was saying so

801
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: out of my head. I did almost have this like

802
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: sense of shame kind of rush over me to what

803
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 2: I was doing. And that was really interesting to me

804
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 2: because I had to sit with myself and so then

805
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 2: I'm like do this kind of self talk of like no,

806
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: this is like like your body is made to do this.

807
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: Like I had to get really comfortable with myself though,

808
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: because I think as women and this is a little

809
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 2: bit different than probably the stuff that men face. But

810
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 2: like for us, we're taught there's a lot of women

811
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 2: I know that don't even masturbate at all, Like it's

812
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 2: just very much kind of based. We're taught from a

813
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: young age that it's about our partner's pleasure. And so

814
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: there's a lot of like deprogramming that I've had to

815
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 2: do with that. And so then sitting with myself without fantasy,

816
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 2: without any sort of distraction, I kind of had to

817
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: work through those whole narratives again of just like this

818
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: is okay, this is like like this is about pleasure.

819
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 2: It's good to feel good, like your body is made

820
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: to do this, you know.

821
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 4: But it was crazy.

822
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: I didn't even know those narratives were in there still.

823
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, then those narratives run deep, like My understanding

824
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: of the socialization you and and women get in this

825
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 3: society is, Yeah, your pleasure isn't important, right, Really, your

826
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 3: job is to serve the man and make sure he's satisfied,

827
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 3: like whatever you need to do, sacrifice yourself, like have

828
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 3: sex before your your pussy's open and ready to receive,

829
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 3: like whatever, like deal with the pain to make your

830
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 3: man happy. Like that kind of stuff is deeply ingrained

831
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 3: in the psyche of a lot of women. Yeah, it's

832
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 3: it's unhealthy and it's not helpful for you or your partner.

833
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 3: And I don't like you know that, you know, but

834
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 3: Yeah'm sure a lot of your listeners know that. But

835
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 3: it's healthy and helpful. I think if there are any

836
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 3: men listening to sometimes hear that coming out of a

837
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 3: man's voice too, that it's not just women saying this,

838
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 3: but also like, yeah, like I have witnessed that in

839
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 3: my partner. We've talked about it, and like I've spent

840
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 3: time studying like how socialization affects different genders, because it

841
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 3: is really important and it does show up in the

842
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 3: sexual experience as things that will have to navigate all

843
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: of us in some way, you know, whether it's conscious

844
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,919
Speaker 3: or not. It's definitely impacting us, and so like, it's

845
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 3: so exciting to me that you and other women are

846
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 3: doing the work to help women like unlock this part

847
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 3: of themselves and realize, Yeah, sexual pleasure is important to you,

848
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 3: and you're wired for this, and you're actually incredibly orgasmic

849
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 3: you can be, right, and if you unlock that power

850
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 3: that's within you, like, you can bring a whole world

851
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 3: of amazing connection and pleasure and meaning and depth to

852
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 3: sexual experiences with anybody of any gender. Right, You're you're

853
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 3: actually a really fucking powerful, amazing creature. Yeah, goddess whatever

854
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 3: you know, like human, whatever words you want to use

855
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: to label it, like wow, you know, a bow to you.

856
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I will say I felt like a goddess

857
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: after that. I was like, I was just you know,

858
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 2: in my whole energy as a woman. And this is

859
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: something that's happened to me since I've entered my forties.

860
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 2: But there is this sort of stepping into your own

861
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 2: power in a way, I want to say, and I

862
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: think that's part of the getting comfortable with your sexuality

863
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: has been a huge part of that for me, of

864
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: just owning my own femininity, my own sexuality, my own

865
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 2: relationship to pleasure in my own body. But as you're describing,

866
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 2: I mean, it's funny because I hear a lot of

867
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: my friends say, well, he doesn't know what he's doing

868
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: as far as like sex with a woman or whatever.

869
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, if do you know what to

870
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 2: tell him to do though to your own body? Like,

871
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: what's your relationship with that within yourself? Because how can

872
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: we expect someone else to do it if we don't

873
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: even know how to do it for ourselves for sure?

874
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 3: And have you ever workshopped it as a couple exactly,

875
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 3: you know? Or does that concept feel like a totally foreign,

876
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: challenging thing that you could never do because oh, sex

877
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 3: is just it's just this thing we do and close

878
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 3: the door, right. Yeah.

879
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 2: I wonder when you started your own that practice that

880
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: you were doing that you describe and a lot of

881
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 2: your work, were there any emotional narratives that came up

882
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 2: for you? Like I said, shame came up for me

883
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. Did you have anything you had to work through? Oh?

884
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And stuff still comes up, you know, And

885
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 3: it's not like you reach a certain point and you're

886
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 3: good for the rest of your life, like you said,

887
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 3: like it's a continual practice and things of all and

888
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 3: change as bodies do. But in the beginning, when I

889
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 3: decided to make the shift into doing that self pleasure

890
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 3: practice for thirty days, it took me weeks to have

891
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: an erection again. And I thought, Oh my god, I've

892
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 3: watched so much porn. I've had such unhealthy sexual habits

893
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 3: that I have fucked up my penis. My penis is broken,

894
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 3: my penis is broken, my brain is broken. I'm never

895
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 3: going to be able to have an erection without fantasy

896
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 3: air porn. Like what did I do to myself? Oh no,

897
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 3: I have failed? Like that kind of stuff came up

898
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 3: for me big time, and I see this happen with

899
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 3: men that I work with too. And luckily now like

900
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 3: I understand that that's part of the process and I

901
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 3: can say, hey, you know, this will happen. It's just

902
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 3: part of the practice. You just have to breathe, you know,

903
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: with it, and move forward with it. But the emotions

904
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: are real, the challenges are still real. Those come up.

905
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 3: And also another interesting one was I, you know, as

906
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: I'm a heterosexual guy. Yeah, and when self pleasuring, I

907
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 3: was exploring my body and one of the things that

908
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 3: I noticed started to feel good was touching my anus

909
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 3: and exploring anal play by myself. And that when I

910
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 3: was younger, like that was a huge fear of mine,

911
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 3: Like I thought like, oh my god, am I does

912
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 3: that mean I'm gay? Does it mean I'm like very confusing,

913
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 3: Like I'm afraid to even touch my own asshole because

914
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 3: I'm afraid that somehow that will turn me gay, as

915
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: if there's like some little I know it's funny, but

916
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 3: like that's a legit fear.

917
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 4: I think a lot of heterosexual men think that totally.

918
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 3: It's like as if there's this one section of my

919
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 3: body that is a different sexual orientation than the rest,

920
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 3: Like that's just not how the body works, right, So

921
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 3: that was a that was a hurdle to get over

922
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 3: it and to acknowledge like, oh, I actually really enjoy this. Yeah,

923
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 3: And and I just want to say too, like for

924
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 3: any guy that's listening that's concerned about that, if you're

925
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 3: with a woman and she's stimulating your anis or if

926
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 3: she puts a finger in your anis or puts a

927
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: toy in your anis or anything like that, that is

928
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 3: a heterosexual act by definition, because you're doing that with

929
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 3: a woman, right, Like, if it was a man doing

930
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,479
Speaker 3: that with you, then it would not be a heterosexual act.

931
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 3: But the body, like, it's the body parts. It doesn't

932
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 3: matter at all.

933
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, why have we labeled one body part as homosexual?

934
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 4: Isn't that interesting?

935
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 3: It is. It's very strange, And it's very like if

936
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: when you start to do the work and uncovered thing,

937
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 3: it's like, obviously you realize, well, that's not the case

938
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 3: at all. No, But I think it's it's generally just

939
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 3: a symptom of our very repressed society that doesn't talk

940
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 3: about sex or have any good sex education at all,

941
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 3: Like had we been told at sixteen years old or

942
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 3: eighteen years old. Hey, by the way, the same pleasure

943
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 3: nerve that runs to the tip of your penis also

944
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 3: has branches in your anal region. And you also have

945
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 3: a prostate, which, by the way, if somebody stimulates it

946
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 3: will giving you a blowjob, it'll give you the most

947
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 3: amazing orgasm you probably will ever have in your life.

948
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 2: Nobody says that, no, and I think everyone would be like, okay, yeah,

949
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 2: in that description, I mean.

950
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 3: For sure, and it is amazing. And if you're listening

951
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 3: and you have a prostate and you've never had that

952
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 3: stimulated while your partner's giving you a blowjob or stimulating

953
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 3: you or whatever. Like you're missing out. That's just you're

954
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 3: you're just fucking missing out.

955
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

956
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

957
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 3: And it's like if you're thinking, oh, well I don't

958
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 3: want to do that, that's that's not for me. That's

959
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 3: the outthol or whatever. I'm like, cool, all right, But

960
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 3: it's as if like you're going your whole life and

961
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 3: you're just avoided I don't know, like ice cream or

962
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 3: roller coasters or nice cars or nice clothing because it's weird,

963
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 3: like on principle, like you are. That is that is

964
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 3: a lost opportunity in my opinion.

965
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 4: Really is your loss the way?

966
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 3: Yeah it is for sure.

967
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: Well I love the work that you're doing. I love

968
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: Please keep talking about all the things, anal play, all

969
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 2: of it, whatever it is, because I do feel like

970
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 2: we are just walking around not knowing, like we just

971
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: don't know.

972
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 4: So you also have a podcast.

973
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 2: If any of you guys are listening and really resonating

974
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 2: with some of these topics, it's called Sex Upgraded. Can

975
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 2: you talk through some of the stuff that you talk

976
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 2: about on your podcast?

977
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and thank you again, so much for having me.

978
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 3: Of course, my podcast, it's got excuse me. There are

979
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 3: a lot of personal stories that I share on my

980
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 3: podcast because I find that guys really resonate with personal stories,

981
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 3: and I've experimented a lot. There's stories about how I

982
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 3: went to my first sex party and my second sex party,

983
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 3: and how I had crazy sexual experiences here and then

984
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 3: went to this other thing over there, and like, there's

985
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 3: lots of personal stories there as well as interviews with

986
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 3: all kinds of people about everything related to sex basically,

987
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 3: and yeah, check it out. It's a lot of fun.

988
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 3: It's one of my favorite ways to interact with people

989
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 3: because we get to do deep into topics like where

990
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 3: else do you sit down with anybody in your life

991
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 3: and have an hour long conversation about anything, Right, I

992
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 3: think it's I think it's really cool. Like podcasting is

993
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 3: one of my favorite modalities of connection and learning. So

994
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 3: check out well.

995
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 2: And I would assume that some of these topics, like

996
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: I mean, as we've talked about multiple times, they can

997
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 2: feel a little scary when you first start looking into

998
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 2: them because we have not been trained to discuss them.

999
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: You know, they're either taboo or shameful. Or you don't

1000
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 2: want to necessarily look at what you're feeling all this stuff.

1001
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: So a podcast is actually a really good place to

1002
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 2: start because you can just listen and kind of decide

1003
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: where you want to take your personal sex life. You

1004
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 2: might have an experience like mine where I heard what

1005
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 2: you and Laila were talking about and I was like,

1006
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 2: I want to try that. So it opened up a

1007
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 2: whole new world for me. So where else can go ahead?

1008
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 3: Well, I would just one episode came to mind to recommend,

1009
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 3: which is sexual attraction versus energetic attraction. It's really interesting

1010
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 3: like that was That episode is about a really transformative

1011
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 3: personal experience I had at a workshop where I, for

1012
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 3: the first time actually felt and was able to discern

1013
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 3: the difference between just just physical sexual attraction and energetic

1014
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 3: attraction and feel the difference of those two and it

1015
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 3: was mind blowing and it changed sex life going forward.

1016
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 3: So that's that's a pretty cool one and it's relatively

1017
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 3: short to listen to. You.

1018
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 4: Also, that's on the Sex Upgraded podcast. Yes, okay, well.

1019
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to go check that out personally. If you

1020
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 2: guys want to go check that out, I'll put the

1021
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 2: link in the description of this podcast, Taylor, Where else

1022
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 2: can people find you?

1023
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 3: All over the internet. I look up Taylor Johnson's sex Coach.

1024
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 3: I'm on Instagram at Taylor Clark Johnson and YouTube too.

1025
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 3: And if you're a guy listening and you want to

1026
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 3: work on anything like overcoming premature ejaculation or learn seeming retention,

1027
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 3: or learn how to overcome erectile dysfunction, I have free

1028
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 3: guides for those things on my website too. I imagine

1029
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 3: maybe you'll link to those in the show notes or

1030
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 3: at least my website. Yeah, you can find on Google

1031
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 3: and it's all pretty easy to find.

1032
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing. Well, thank you so much for being here.

1033
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 2: I love talking about this. If you guys have any questions,

1034
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 2: go find Taylor on Insta.

1035
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 4: Again. I'll put all of this in a description of

1036
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 4: this podcast.

1037
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me, and thank you

1038
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 3: for listening. I hope you have a beautiful day.

1039
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,

1040
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a

1041
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,

1042
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.