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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, the

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Speaker 2: podcast that you already listened to this week. Otherwise it

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Speaker 2: won't make any sense because this is part two. I'm

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Speaker 2: your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and my guest, much like my

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Speaker 2: guest in part one, very similar person actually to my

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Speaker 2: guest in part one is Caitlyn Durante.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Kaitlin, No, I'm Datelin Karante. Ah, similar but different.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we'll have to go over all of it again.

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Speaker 2: Let me just scroll back up script.

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Speaker 3: I'm so confused.

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Speaker 2: Already, just kidding.

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Speaker 3: It's me, Caitlin.

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Speaker 2: Did you get did you get goofed? Did I goof you?

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Speaker 2: I was goofed? Yeah, well call me goofy because I

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Speaker 2: ride with the skateboard with the wrong foot in front,

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Speaker 2: because I know about skateboards and Allie's I swear I'm

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Speaker 2: a real punk art producer. Is Sophie Hi, Sophie Hi?

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Speaker 1: Someone just say me this video of h Hairs and

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Speaker 1: two Balls talking about tacos and I'm not using spices

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Speaker 1: and I can't focus on anything else.

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Speaker 4: She's like, what do you what do you put in

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Speaker 4: your your taco? And he's like nothing, Wait, who's the

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Speaker 4: who's the heat in this sentence, that is her running

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Speaker 4: mate Tim Walls.

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Speaker 2: Oh, not tracks.

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Speaker 1: She's like, you don't season it, and he's like.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm from the Midwest.

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Speaker 3: I mean I could have absolutely guessed that.

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Speaker 1: She said, do you put any flavor in?

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Speaker 2: He goes, oh, no, he doesn't do his own cooking.

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Speaker 2: I just think that's.

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Speaker 1: Really funny that he's like, no, It's like it's a

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Speaker 1: shell with unseasoned meat and some cheese, probably the pre

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Speaker 1: shredded kind. I support everyone.

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Speaker 2: Well, also supported but unknown about what spices they used

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Speaker 2: is Rory, our audio engineer, Hi, Rory, Hi, Riri Hi.

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Speaker 2: And our theme musical was written for us by un woman.

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Speaker 2: And this is part two in a two parter on

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Speaker 2: Francis Perkins, the progressive person who Madam, Oh, I don't

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Speaker 2: know how to talk. I'll just go back to my script,

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Speaker 2: the thing with the reading and the story I'm telling.

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Speaker 2: Where we last left our hero. She had become the

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Speaker 2: Secretary of the Department of Labor, the first Madam secretary,

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Speaker 2: and she desegregated the Department of Labor, which was shocking

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Speaker 2: that that was a thing that had to be done.

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Speaker 2: And she created the ins which is a thing that

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Speaker 2: is shocking that it made the world better instead of worse,

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Speaker 2: because usually when I think of the I s, I

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Speaker 2: don't have positive connotations. Although now that ice is around,

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Speaker 2: the ions looks rosy in comparison. But Franklin Desmond, I

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Speaker 2: don't know his middle name, Roosevelt.

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Speaker 3: Took office or Eleanor Roosevelt.

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Speaker 2: Right, just named himself after his wife over a D

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Speaker 2: in front of it. Yeah, excellent. There's a joke about

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Speaker 2: the fact that Eleanor Roosevelt was a lesbian in there,

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Speaker 2: but I'll leave it to the audience because he was one.

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to make a anyway, or at least

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Speaker 2: was queer. FDR took office only about a month after

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Speaker 2: Hitler came to power in Germany. Both happened in early

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three. The biggest issue for most Americans was,

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Speaker 2: of course, the Great Depression, but folks were looking at

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Speaker 2: Germany and a lot of folks were really nervous because

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Speaker 2: Germany wasn't looking so great. Well, some people were very

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Speaker 2: excited because they were fascists also, Yes, but was it

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Speaker 2: you I had on a guest when I talked about

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Speaker 2: Hollywood and the Nazis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yes, definitely me. It was me.

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Speaker 2: It's been a while. The podcast has been running for years.

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Speaker 1: Whenever any of us like, do the amount of podcasts

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Speaker 1: we do, it's like, sure, I maybe I was there.

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Speaker 2: I remember every way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember the type set people who put the people,

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Speaker 3: the letters in the things.

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Speaker 2: The printers. You were here for hobo printers. Yeah, that

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Speaker 2: was a good episode.

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Speaker 3: That was a great episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I've been on not a brag or anything, but I've

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Speaker 3: been on this show maybe four maybe this is my

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Speaker 3: fifth time.

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Speaker 1: I don't wow, five timer club. Do you get a

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Speaker 1: do you get a pull blaser? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Where's my jacket?

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Speaker 2: We're going to send you a sword?

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Speaker 3: Oh well, I would prefer what are they called? What

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Speaker 3: is it a flail?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I do have one of those on my wall,

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Speaker 2: but that rocks. My friends were like, actually I won't

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to name them, but two of my

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Speaker 2: friends who've been on this show before found a flame,

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Speaker 2: like a cast bronze flail at a thrift store or something,

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Speaker 2: or an antique store, and we're like, m hmmm, how

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Speaker 2: did Margaret's flail get here? So they got it and

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Speaker 2: brought it to me because they knew it was mine.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome, But the main purpose of that is hitting Nazis,

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Speaker 2: and don't worry. So Nazis are going to die in

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Speaker 2: this story. And FDR was a Democrat, and the Democrats

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Speaker 2: had not done their full one point eighty were the

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Speaker 2: center left instead of the center right party. Thing yet right,

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Speaker 2: they're not the most progressive party yet, although they're well

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Speaker 2: on their way. And so a ton of his cabinet,

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Speaker 2: because he's trying to hold onto the old Dixiecrat crowd,

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Speaker 2: a ton of his cabinet are like the children of

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Speaker 2: Confederate soldiers and like believers in the Lost Cause and

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Speaker 2: all kinds of right wing, bigoted bullshit. And America was

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Speaker 2: not exactly devoid of anti Semitism. So there are these

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Speaker 2: immigration quotas per country, like we talked about, but from

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three to nineteen thirty the German quota was

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Speaker 2: never filled because it was up to the US consult

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Speaker 2: in any given country to decide who to grant emigration

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Speaker 2: visas to. And in nineteen seventeen, the law had given

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Speaker 2: the consuls incredibly broadly way to declare someone unfit. If

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Speaker 2: you're going to be a public charge, you can't come

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Speaker 2: and for some weird reason, all of the Jews were

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Speaker 2: bankrupt in Germany. The weird reason is that the Nazis

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Speaker 2: took all their stuff and they had to declare bankruptcy.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so even like ostensibly middle class Jews, right, were

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Speaker 2: no longer middle class and could not prove that they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be public charges in a successful way. Right. So

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Speaker 2: the consul in Germany is denying Jews the chance to

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Speaker 2: emigrate to the US, determining that they're unfit, and Perkins

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Speaker 2: is furious. She basically starts a turf war with the

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Speaker 2: State Department over who had it control of immigration, because

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Speaker 2: ostensibly she had the I ins, but the State Department

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Speaker 2: was like controlling all this other stuff, right m And

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Speaker 2: the State Department was all about restrictionism, which means don't

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Speaker 2: let anyone come here, and the labor department is now

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Speaker 2: all about accepting refugees. Sort of. It's a mess. And

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Speaker 2: the first week she's in office or office isn't, I

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Speaker 2: don't know whatever. First week she's at work, five different

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Speaker 2: men told her that they were in charge of immigration.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, so that's like in office space when he

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Speaker 3: has eight different bosses and they're all on his case

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Speaker 3: about TPS reports.

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Speaker 2: Where he should just burn down the building to get

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Speaker 2: a stapler back.

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Speaker 4: M hmm.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: Her first plan to get Jewish immigrants in from Germany

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Speaker 2: was to set up a series of charge bonds. And

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Speaker 2: so this is that people don't become public charges. There

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Speaker 2: was a loophole in the nineteen twenty four law that

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Speaker 2: anyone who's you know, it bans anyone who's at risk

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Speaker 2: of becoming a public charge, but it allows the labor

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Speaker 2: secretary to offer that potential immigrants could offer bonds that

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Speaker 2: covered in case they needed assistance. And again they put

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Speaker 2: this in assuming that the labor secretary would always be

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Speaker 2: right wing, so it wasn't be a problem. And so

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Speaker 2: that like rich people could get in if they can

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Speaker 2: come up with five hundred dollars from this or that source,

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Speaker 2: which is about twelve thousand dollars today, this would be

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Speaker 2: deposited as like assurance against them needing further assistance. And

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Speaker 2: this isn't great, right, we should just let people in

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Speaker 2: so that they don't get murdered. And you know it's okay,

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Speaker 2: My taxes can go to pay for people's not starving

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Speaker 2: to death. My taxes go to a lot worse stuff

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Speaker 2: than that. You know, tell me about it, but it's something, right.

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Speaker 2: Setting up this charge bond system is something, and it

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Speaker 2: starts immediately getting more people over and a Jewish employee

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Speaker 2: the Labor Department wrote the legal argument for this, and

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Speaker 2: the State Department pushed back with a loophole of its

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Speaker 2: own and saying that she was like threatening national security

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Speaker 2: because if anything threaten national security, then be overridden by

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Speaker 2: the State Department. Blah blah, blah, blah blah. Another group

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Speaker 2: that fought against these charge bonds and Jewish immigration from

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Speaker 2: Germany was the repeated villain of this pod, the American

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Speaker 2: Federation of Labor the AFL, And it was actually fear

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Speaker 2: of pissing off the AFL because they were an essential

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Speaker 2: ally to this, like because they're pushing for the new Deal, right,

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Speaker 2: and so they need labor on their side. The bond

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Speaker 2: system gets put into place, but it's not really used

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Speaker 2: because they're afraid of pissing off not just the AFL,

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Speaker 2: but like all the people who are really mad about this,

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Speaker 2: and so some people are starting to get rescued. Even

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Speaker 2: some Jewish Americans are scared of letting Jewish immigrants in

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Speaker 2: this is not overall the case, but there's this massive

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Speaker 2: unemployment problem, and some folks are like, oh, if more

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Speaker 2: Jewish immigrants come in, there's going to be more anti

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Speaker 2: Semitism here, which is probably true, just not a good

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Speaker 2: reason to not let people in.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Overall, the arge bond thing was like sort of a success,

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Speaker 2: more folks started being able to come over. This isn't

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Speaker 2: enough for her because it isn't solving the problem, and

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Speaker 2: she is dedicated to social justice, not making sure she

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Speaker 2: looks good. She's not virtue signaling, you know.

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Speaker 3: Right, So her goal is anyone who is a refugee

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Speaker 3: or just wants to immigrate to the US should be

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Speaker 3: able to Is that her stance?

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Speaker 2: I am uncertain if she's entirely open door policy, I

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Speaker 2: am uncertain. I get the impression that she probably like

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Speaker 2: wants refugees to be able to come here, and like

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Speaker 2: probably wants the overall quota, like probably doesn't like the

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Speaker 2: quota system. But like, you know, I think she's still

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Speaker 2: not totally open door, but I'm not certain. Actually I

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Speaker 2: don't have any like specific counter evidence that says she

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Speaker 2: isn't totally open door. Sure, but I feel like it

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Speaker 2: would have come up specifically as like one of the

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Speaker 2: many things that people yelled at her about.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's true.

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Speaker 2: So her next plan is she's like, all right, can

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Speaker 2: we at least fucking let German Jewish kids in? Can, like,

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Speaker 2: they can't steal your jobs? Can we just fucking let

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Speaker 2: kids in? Probably she'd said this without the cussing, because

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Speaker 2: she was devoutly Christian. She formed the Children's Bureau of

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Speaker 2: the Ins and partnered with a group called the German

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Speaker 2: Jewish Children's Aid. The situation in Germany was continuing to

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Speaker 2: get worse. Of course, Jewish parents suddenly didn't have jobs

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Speaker 2: and they couldn't provide for their kids, and basically they

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Speaker 2: were like, well, we all need to get out, but

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Speaker 2: if I can get my kids out, that's something. And

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Speaker 2: you know, they're like, all these Jewish groups are like, well,

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Speaker 2: the US is too xenophobic to take us, but maybe

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Speaker 2: it'll take our kids as a temporary measure. You know,

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Speaker 2: the kids will come home once it's danger is passed, right,

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Speaker 2: because no one knows exactly what's going to happen in Germany. Sure,

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Speaker 2: and unfortunately this means that all these kids that get

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Speaker 2: fostered through this program, most of them never see their

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Speaker 2: parents again. But Perkins had to go to war with

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Speaker 2: the State Department yet again to get this to happen.

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Speaker 2: But she succeeded, not anywhere near to the degree that

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Speaker 2: she wanted, right, Like, she manages to get an agreement

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Speaker 2: that ten kids a month can come over.

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Speaker 3: That's so few, but I know, better than nothing but

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Speaker 3: a pitiful number.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing that I found so fascinating about this

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Speaker 2: because when I first started reading this and thinking about

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Speaker 2: her as a potential topic, she has like access to

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Speaker 2: the you know, she's one of the people running the

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Speaker 2: federal government of the United States, right, so you sort

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Speaker 2: of expect her to be saving like tens of thousands

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Speaker 2: of people's lives, right, right, But in the end, almost

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Speaker 2: everyone who is saving people from the Holocaust is doing

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Speaker 2: it on like an individual level, like at scale, by

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Speaker 2: continuing to do it over and over and over again.

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Speaker 2: But people are saving like a bus load of people

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Speaker 2: or a train car's worth of people, or ten people

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Speaker 2: here or two people there, you know, and it all

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Speaker 2: adds up. It didn't add but enough, right obviously, because

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Speaker 2: the Holocaust happens. But that was what was so fascinating,

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Speaker 2: is that, Yeah, it's like so few, but like, you

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Speaker 2: know it's something right now?

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Speaker 3: Is this the case of that five hundred dollars?

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Speaker 2: No thing?

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Speaker 3: So it's okay, So they didn't have to provide any

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Speaker 3: kind of like security deposit kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: So what they're doing instead is that they're placing them

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Speaker 2: with foster families, and the foster families are agreeing to

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Speaker 2: make sure that the kids don't become public charges. And

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Speaker 2: so there's this huge bureaucracy in order to get I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty sure she would have been okay with like, can

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Speaker 2: we just please bring these kids over and we'll figure

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Speaker 2: it out, But in order to get anyone to go

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Speaker 2: along with it, they have like this whole bureaucracy going

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Speaker 2: around and like inspecting the foster families and like making

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Speaker 2: sure I mean, and you do want to place kids

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Speaker 2: with like safe homes, right, But yeah, five hundred and

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Speaker 2: ninety seven kids from nineteen thirty four to nineteen forty one,

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Speaker 2: like ten kids or so are coming over a month

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Speaker 2: until the US enters the war, and they're placed with

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Speaker 2: I believe Jewish families. I know the only examples I

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Speaker 2: saw were with Jewish families. So it's also not a

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Speaker 2: like we're going to turn them all Christian or whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know. And this program was overseen by a working

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Speaker 2: class Jewish woman who is raised by immigrants herself in

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Speaker 2: Saint Louis, And they had to like beg for permission

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Speaker 2: to fundraise to make sure the kids wouldn't become public charges,

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Speaker 2: not beg for the funds. Those were reasonably easy to get, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: people came forward to save kids, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of gofundmes back then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of a depressing, like nothing ever changes

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Speaker 2: when we think about like how much people are specifically

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Speaker 2: fundraising to get families out of Palestine right now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well right when you were saying it's only like

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Speaker 3: ten people a month, I'm like, yeah, like happening on

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Speaker 3: a like pretty individual basis. It reminded me of like

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Speaker 3: how individual families have set up gofundmes to you know,

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Speaker 3: flee from the genocide. But yeah, it's it's really yeah,

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Speaker 3: history repeats itself, doesn't.

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Speaker 2: It in real nasty ways, and like and the fact

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Speaker 2: that so much of that fundraisiness specifically to cover like

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Speaker 2: visa fees and things, right or should just be which.

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Speaker 3: Is like can you just I don't know considering their

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Speaker 3: circumstances not have that. Yeah, just like yeah, just say decide, oh,

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Speaker 3: to save these people from death, yeah and genocide, let's

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Speaker 3: waive the fees. Like what is no? I absolutely so depressing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that. I don't know. It really stuck

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Speaker 2: with me as I was reading this as thinking about

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Speaker 2: yeah exactly, that about how individuals and and they had

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Speaker 2: to keep this entire project out of the public eye

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Speaker 2: because they're afraid of stirring a anti Semitic backlash because

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Speaker 2: this like army of children, you know, coming over to

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Speaker 2: grow up and eventually steal American jobs. Like like, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to work. No one wants to worry. Everyone

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Speaker 2: just wants enough money to get But I mean, I, okay,

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Speaker 2: that's not sure. I liked making stuff. I like being

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Speaker 2: part of a thing that I care about, but.

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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I don't know, but I don't like doing labor.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: I want my swimming pool for free.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And that's why this podcast is brought to

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Speaker 2: you by by Margaret and Caitlin swimming Pools dot com.

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Speaker 2: We don't live in the same place, so we're going

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Speaker 2: to need more than one. Sophie, do you want in on.

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Speaker 3: This it might be salt water.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's by regular swimming pools for Margaret and Kaitla. Well, Kaitlin,

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Speaker 2: what kind of swiming pool you want?

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Speaker 3: I need to give it some thought because I was like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it would just be like there's just that one kind

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Speaker 3: of swimming pool. And then you said saltwater and I

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Speaker 3: didn't even really know that was a thing. No, I

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Speaker 3: didn't either, So I have to do some research. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: are they like better? Are they more sustainable?

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Speaker 1: I was like allergic to chlorine as a kid, and

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Speaker 1: so I always wanted a saltwater pool. I mean I

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Speaker 1: grew out of the allergy, but as a kid, I

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Speaker 1: like could go into pools at like birthday parties.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean you are like just submerging your body

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Speaker 3: into harsh chemicals. Yeah, so makes sense. Yeah, salt water,

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Speaker 3: salt water, that's that's the ocean. The ocean is made

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Speaker 3: of that, that's that's natural.

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Speaker 2: Okay, saltwater baths are around.

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Speaker 1: Actually, can you just buy each of us in ocean?

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Speaker 1: Thank you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yes, please Okay, And then that is our sponsor

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Speaker 2: is the Fund for Buying oceans and or pools For

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Speaker 2: Sophie Caitlin and Margaret, and if you hear any other

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Speaker 2: ads there mistakes and please take it up with management.

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Speaker 2: Here they go and we're back. So a year after

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Speaker 2: they started this whole plan, on November ninth, nineteen thirty four,

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Speaker 2: the first nine Jewish kids made it to New York.

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Speaker 2: They got off the USS New York into New York.

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Speaker 2: The kids kept up correspondence with their families for about

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Speaker 2: a decade, and then one by one the families were

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Speaker 2: murdered by the Nazis, and the temporary fostering was soon permanent,

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Speaker 2: and many of the kids were adopted into their new families.

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Speaker 2: And then we're going to talk about the pogrammi is

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Speaker 2: pogram of them all, Crystal Knocked, and how it changed

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Speaker 2: immigration and how it should have changed it way more.

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Speaker 2: There have been all kinds of programs in Nazi Germany

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Speaker 2: between nineteen thirty three and nineteen thirty eight, But the

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Speaker 2: night of November ninth, nineteen thirty eight, the Nazis through

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Speaker 2: like the mother of all programs, Crystal Knocked, the Night

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Speaker 2: of Broken Glass, the Essay and the SS through like

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Speaker 2: the two pair of military groups of the Nazis alongside

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Speaker 2: the Hitler Youth, which is the third paramilitary group, but

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Speaker 2: of kids alongside enthusiastic German citizens went around and killed

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Speaker 2: people and rape people and did all kinds of that

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Speaker 2: shit and smashed everything up. And this particular riot I

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Speaker 2: had never heard about what it was. In response to

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Speaker 2: you never heard about the Herschel Greenspan, the Jewish kid

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Speaker 2: who killed a Nazi. No, yes, I'm gonna tell you

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Speaker 2: about him. Sovie has heard about him, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: tell you about him.

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Speaker 3: Please.

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Speaker 2: I think he was cool, even though, like a lot

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Speaker 2: of things, sometimes you do things and they turn out

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Speaker 2: badly for everyone. But I understand why people did him,

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Speaker 2: because krystal Knock was in response to a rather justifiable

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Speaker 2: assassination done by a seventeen year old Jew named Herschel

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Speaker 2: green Span. He'd been born in Germany, but he was

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Speaker 2: never a German citizen because his parents were Polish Jews

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Speaker 2: and Germany was racist. He grew up really fighty. He

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Speaker 2: was known to respond to anti Semitic taunts with his fists.

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Speaker 2: He dropped out of school at fourteen because of the

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Speaker 2: discrimination he faced, and so they snuck over to Paris

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Speaker 2: and he kind of lived like kind of bohemian life.

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Speaker 2: He would like recite Yiddish poetry and hang out in

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Speaker 2: the cafe and watch movies and like just be like

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Speaker 2: a cool Paris guy, you know, ohope kid, And soon

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Speaker 2: enough he was a stateless person. France didn't want him,

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Speaker 2: Germany didn't want him, and Poland did this thing where

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Speaker 2: they were like, everyone who's lived somewhere else for five

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Speaker 2: years is no longer Polish. Fuck you. He stayed with

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Speaker 2: his aunt and uncle, who honestly didn't want him either

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Speaker 2: because they didn't have enough money, and also they were like,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing and you're spend all your time

380
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Speaker 2: hanging out cafes, why don't you get a job. So

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Speaker 2: he went underground because he was wanted for deportation, and

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Speaker 2: then things continue to get worse for him. His parents

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Speaker 2: were deported from Germany back to Poland, alongside twelve thousand

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Speaker 2: other fourign born Jews, but Poland wouldn't take them because

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Speaker 2: they had just declared everyone not Polish anymore, right, so

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Speaker 2: twelve thousand people are stranded at the border. Those who

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Speaker 2: tried to escape back into Germany were shot. Herschel asked

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00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 2: his aunt and uncle to send money to his parents,

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Speaker 2: but his aunt and uncle didn't have the money to spare,

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Speaker 2: so Herschel went out. He bought a revolver in twenty

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Speaker 2: five bullets, and he walked to the German embassy in Paris.

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Speaker 2: He went to the front desk and he said, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm a German citizen and a spy with an important document,

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Speaker 2: and I need to see the ambassador. So they brought

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Speaker 2: him to a junior ambassador named Ernst vaum Roth, who

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Speaker 2: was a Nazi. Herschel shot him five times in the

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Speaker 2: stomach and shouted, you're a filthy bouche, which is a

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Speaker 2: slur for a German, kind of like calling someone a krout.

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Speaker 2: In the name of twelve thousand persecuted Jews, here is

400
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Speaker 2: your document. He didn't try to escape. He let himself

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00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 2: be taken into custody, and he confessed, and he carried

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Speaker 2: a postcard in his pocket for his parents. And this

403
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: part made me tear up when I first read it.

404
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Speaker 2: It said, with God's help, my dear parents, I could

405
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Speaker 2: not do otherwise. May God forgive me the heart bleeds

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Speaker 2: when I hear of your tragedy and that of the

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Speaker 2: twelve thousand Jews, I must protest so that the whole

408
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Speaker 2: world hears my protest. And that I will do forgive me.

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Speaker 2: And when he was arrested, he told the police being

410
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Speaker 2: a Jew is not a crime. I am not a dog.

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Speaker 2: I have a right to live and the Jewish people

412
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 2: have a right to exist on this earth. Wherever I

413
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 2: have been, I have been chased like an animal. And

414
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Speaker 2: so the Nazi died, which is cool, But the rest

415
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 2: of the Nazis use as a pretense for the Night

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Speaker 2: of Broken Glass, so that's less cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they called him the boy Avenger or something like that,

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Speaker 1: if I'm remember incorrectly. Oh shit, in like press the

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Speaker 1: boy Avenger, which is such a funny thing. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe the transition isn't there, but I was like, the

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Speaker 1: boy of Avenger, that's you said his name. That's the

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Speaker 1: first thing that popped in my head.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, And it's like, a it's so funny how

424
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Speaker 2: in the moment a lot of people are like, WHOA,

425
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 2: that's a step too far, and like in retrospect, like,

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Speaker 2: of course, shooting the Nazi officials justified when you've been

427
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Speaker 2: made stateless by the Nazi government, Like no one reasonable

428
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Speaker 2: doubts that in retrospect. And then yet when I would

429
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Speaker 2: never compare anything to current events. But like say, for example,

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Speaker 2: in current events, when people are deprived of any kind

431
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Speaker 2: of liberty and forced to be foreigners in their own

432
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Speaker 2: place that they're from, they sometimes act out violently, and

433
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Speaker 2: that is obviously justifiable. But like people can't hang with

434
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Speaker 2: it at the time, you know, Nope, because it whatever. Anyway,

435
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Speaker 2: people can make their own people can draw their own

436
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: comparison here besides the ones that I'm obviously drawing. Yes,

437
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 2: during Crystal Knocked, ninety Jews were killed, thirty thousand Jews

438
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: were arrested, a thousand of those died in concentration camps

439
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 2: before the twenty nine thousand were actually released back, which

440
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: I mean obviously didn't go great for them. More than

441
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: two hundred synagogues were smashed up. In modern dollars, there

442
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: was six point seven billion dollars in damages. And you know, morally,

443
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: it was not wrong to shoot that Nazi. Strategically, it's

444
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 2: a messier question. Crystal Knocked was absolutely a nightmare, but

445
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 2: it was also a revelation to the world because the

446
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: Nazis came out of the gate like super antisemitic in

447
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 2: the early nineteen twenties, but by the time they took

448
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: power in nineteen thirty three. They were a little bit

449
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 2: trying to downplay that, right, They were like, oh, we're

450
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 2: like trying to win elections and shit, we should focus

451
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 2: on economic issues. And by the time of the nineteen

452
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: thirty six Olympics they had taken down all the anti

453
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: SeMet posters and shit to keep the world from hating them.

454
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: Crystal Knocked revealed who they were, and it marked the end,

455
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 2: or at least the downturn of Western powers seeking to

456
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: appease Hitler, and the Western world got together to fundraise

457
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,959
Speaker 2: for Herschel's defense, and in one of the sort of

458
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: interesting things about it, in the US, folks raised forty

459
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: thousand dollars in a matter of weeks, which is almost

460
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: about a million dollars in modern day money. And this

461
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 2: was raised primarily and in name, it was raised entirely

462
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 2: by non Jewish organizations, because the non Jewish organizations did

463
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 2: it so that it didn't look like a conspiracy by

464
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: Western Jews and therefore be used as an excuse to

465
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: persecute Jews in Germany.

466
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: Even more so, Herschel wasn't killed, he was arrested, but

467
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 3: I just kind of assumed that they would.

468
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 2: Have, Yeah, no, so he like, we don't know when

469
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: he died. The tail stays interesting. Actually, I'm I'm gonna

470
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: follow it through because he's like, his legal defense is

471
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 2: one Jewish lawyer and one non Jewish anti fascist lawyer, right,

472
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: and they're gonna you know, Germany wants a big show trial,

473
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: but it's not a German trial. It's a French trial, right,

474
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 2: because this was a shooting at the embassy in Paris. Yeah,

475
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: German embassy, okay, right, yeah, And so he wanted his

476
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 2: legal defense to be shooting that man was good. And

477
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 2: there's actually precedent in France for this about like shooting

478
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 2: an anti Semite who is like conspired to kill everyone. Right,

479
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 2: it's the Shalamsavartsbard defense, which we did a whole two

480
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 2: parter about. But it was this guy who survived a

481
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: bunch of programs. It's a Ukrainian anarchist jew who like

482
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: survived a bunch of programs and then ended up in

483
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: Paris and shot and killed the Ukrainian nationalist who was

484
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: responsible for programming his family and then like stood by

485
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: the corpse and was like, yeah, I shot him. Of

486
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: course I did. Fuck that guy. And then like the

487
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: jury was like, yeah, fuck that guy and let him off.

488
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: You know, it's very influential trial a lot of people

489
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 2: since then to various effects, including actually, we recently covered

490
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: an Armenian assassin who used the sholum sports part of

491
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 2: defense successfully, but he wanted to be like, shooting that

492
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: guy was good. His defense attorneys were like, uh, what

493
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: if you don't do that? And they had this defense

494
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 2: set up in place for him that he did not like,

495
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: which was claim that you are gay and so was

496
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 2: the Nazi that you shot and it was a lover's

497
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: quarrel and had nothing to do with politics. Um, okay, yeah, no,

498
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 2: it sounds goofy as hell. It is goofy as hell.

499
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: And at first I'm just like this is the most

500
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: a fuck this right when I'm reading about this, Yeah,

501
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 2: because it's like the ideas that are like, well, if

502
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: you say it was a political thing, they're definitely going

503
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: to hang you. And it's like this kid doesn't care

504
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 2: if he hangs, well, guillotine him, but he doesn't care

505
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: if he gets guillotined, right, he like wrote his goodbyes,

506
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: you know. But everyone's afraid that if it's a big

507
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: political show trial, it'll be used to justify more programs

508
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 2: in Germany. And so it's this weird thing where he's

509
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: like kind of being asked to fall on a sword

510
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: and like be embarrassed to history in order to save

511
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 2: people's lives, and it's weird. Herschel refused to claim that

512
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: he was homosexual. He was like, I'm a virgin, but

513
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 2: I am straight. Prosecution and defense both wanted to delay

514
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: the trial, so it was delayed. The defense wanted to

515
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: delay it so that the public uproar around it would

516
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: calm down, and I think the prosecution just like kind

517
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: of didn't give a shit. I'm not sure he never

518
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: went on trial because in nineteen forty, the Nazis approached Paris,

519
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: and this kid's fucking life. The prisoners were all evacuated

520
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: and the convoy was then like attacked by German aircraft

521
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: and a whole bunch of prisoners escaped and Herschel made

522
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: it out on foot, but then he turned himself in

523
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: the surrendered, and so he was extradited to Germany in

524
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: nineteen forty. And it's so funny to me because when

525
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 2: I think about like the Nazi government, I don't think

526
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: about them like bothering to obey international laws and shit, right,

527
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: because I'm like pretty sure it's like illegal to invade countries.

528
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: Like I'm not sure, you know, I should talk to

529
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: my lawyer before I do anything direct with this, hmm.

530
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: But like I don't imagine Germany is like a big

531
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 2: like international rule of law follower right now. But they

532
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: extradited him illegally, and that later kind of catches them up,

533
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: like as if it matters to them, because fucking laws

534
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: are weird. And he gets extradited to Germany in nineteen

535
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: forty and he was actually housed reasonably well because the

536
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 2: Nazis wanted him healthy enough to put on a big

537
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: show trial, because they wanted to say this wasn't an

538
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: angry teenager. This is a conspiracy of the international jewelry.

539
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: That's the way they called it in this like this

540
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: direct quote. And so after years of custody in Germany,

541
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: Herschel finally he's like, all right, I will fuck the Germans.

542
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: I am going to say I did it because I

543
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: was gay. And it's because he like doesn't want them

544
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: to be able to make the show trial out of him.

545
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: He does not want to be a pawn for the Nazis, so.

546
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: They're trying to make an example out of him, and

547
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: he's like.

548
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: No, yeah. At first, when he's in Paris, it's kind

549
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 2: of a like lack of agency for him to claim

550
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: to be gay, you know, But now it's kind of

551
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: a way of taking agency where he's like, I'm gonna

552
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: fuck with you. You all are going to try and

553
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 2: make a show trial, and I'm not going to let

554
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: you because if you if you do it, and I'm like,

555
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: oh it was a lover's quarrel, then like y'all are

556
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: going to be idiots and everyone's going to laugh at you,

557
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: and Nazis hate being laughed at, you know. Yeah, So

558
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: this torpedoed the show trial. It didn't happen. It like

559
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: went up to Hitler and Hitler was like, I don't

560
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: know about that homosexuality, you know. And after that history

561
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: loses track of him by far and away. The most

562
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: likely thing is that he was killed in Nazi custody

563
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty two, but his trial wasn't canceled, it

564
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: was just indefinitely delayed, so they had a reason to

565
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: keep him alive. And there's a nineteen forty six photo

566
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: from Paris of a man who looks like an awful

567
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: lot like him. Okay, but he probably died. And the

568
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: main reason I like buy it is that he was

569
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: totally close to his family and his parents and he

570
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: loved them dearly, and he like kind of did it

571
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: for them, right, And his parents survived the war and

572
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: he didn't reach out to them.

573
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

574
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: So in nineteen sixty his parents were like, could you

575
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,719
Speaker 2: please announce him dead? Like, could we stop this? Yeah,

576
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: but maybe he's somewhere one hundred and three years old

577
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 2: thinking to himself like, hell, yeah, at least I shot

578
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: that fucking Nazi though, right, let's.

579
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's I'm okay with rewriting and revising history if

580
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: it's a situation like that. Yeah.

581
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why we're working on our best selling screenplay

582
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: Green Span the Anti fashion who wasn't gay but pretended

583
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: to be in order to get away with having killed

584
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: Nazi and not being used on a show trial. That's

585
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: a good title for a movie.

586
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: Really good title. I would, actually I would. I think

587
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 3: we should add a few more words to it. But yeah,

588
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 3: you know, it's we're still workshopping.

589
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: Well, like when we get to like the third or

590
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: fourth in the series, you know, we can like really

591
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: go somewhere with that, you know, like in space. Can

592
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: we add in space to the end, well yeah, yeah.

593
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then and then another you know entry into

594
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: the into this franchise could be like a heist movie,

595
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 3: and then time travel has to be part of it.

596
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: The third movie of every trilogy has time travel. Okay,

597
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: don't don't question me on that. Don't look it up.

598
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: It's a fact. Every third movie is a time travel movie.

599
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, this will be no different.

600
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: He's going to go back in time and save the whales.

601
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: I think, actually, well a future and time, well, no,

602
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 2: in the past anyway. Well, terms of what we said it,

603
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: we're still workshopping it exactly.

604
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

605
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so don't steal our idea now. Listeners copyrighted. All

606
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: my ideas are copyrighted me my dog. I don't know

607
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: if y'all can hear it, but my dog groaned when

608
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: I said that, because he knows that that's the thing

609
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 2: that beginner writer is always obsessed about and it is

610
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: almost never actually a real worry.

611
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. You know when you like kind of a

612
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 3: way to copyright sort of was to like mail yourself something. Yeah,

613
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 3: and like there would be like the postmark date. If

614
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: if you say something on a podcast and then it

615
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: gets published, is that kind of like copywriting?

616
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: I mean I think so. I mean, like the way

617
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: the copyright as I understand it works, as soon as

618
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 2: you publish something, it is copywriten. You don't have to

619
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: like file a formal blah blah blah at all. Right,

620
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 2: Like in the US, copyright law is like fairly extensive.

621
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, I guess I don't know enough about it,

622
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: which I should. They skipped over that day in grad

623
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 3: school when I it's getting my master's degree in screenwriting

624
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: something I never mentioned.

625
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, I didn't know that. Well, actually, in a

626
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: weird way, makes sense for screenwriters to like not get

627
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: taught that, right, because like you all are usually writing

628
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: for someone else that's copyright anyway, right.

629
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: That, Or I mean, screenplays don't get published. They are

630
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 3: just a blueprint for a movie. Yeah, so it's like

631
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 3: it's rare that Yeah, you like you don't really I don't.

632
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 3: I mean, copyright lize laws still apply, but a screenplay

633
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: is very different than most other like written pieces of work,

634
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 3: where no one's intending to be like, yeah, I wrote

635
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 3: the thing, and now I'm going to publish it. It's

636
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: more like I wrote the thing and hopefully someone wants

637
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 3: to make a movie out of it.

638
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know who does want to make movies?

639
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: Any of our advertisers who happen to be movies.

640
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: Yes, we do occasionally get movie sponsors.

641
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. Those ones I actually listen to because

642
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: I like movies.

643
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 3: Movies Rock.

644
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: This a podcast brought to you by watching movies. It's

645
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 2: like the fast forward button on your life.

646
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: And I just want to say, if you like watching

647
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: movies and you're like, oh, I wonder if that movie,

648
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,479
Speaker 1: you know, pass the Bechdel test, and like, what if

649
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: we talked about it from an intersectional feminist lens? Like

650
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: where could I hear that? Caitlin, I have no idea.

651
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it could be done.

652
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 3: I don't know. Probably back deel cast you silly, silly,

653
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 3: I was goofing again. It was another goof.

654
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: By riding backwards on your skateboard.

655
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: Wow.

656
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 2: Well here's ads and we're back, and now we're talking

657
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: about after Crystal Knock. Because of the light hearted nature

658
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 2: of our show.

659
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

660
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: After Crystal Knocked, public sentiments started to slowly shift towards

661
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 2: helping Jewish refugees. Not enough that, frank and overall, like

662
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 2: the US as an institution did embarrassingly good, not embarrassingly

663
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:06,479
Speaker 2: like criminally bad.

664
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 3: At this sounds right, but.

665
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: There start being a few more levers of power, like

666
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: it starts, public sentiments are shifting. Usually not enough. And honestly,

667
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: like our hero who worked tirelessly to save people, isn't

668
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: going to save that many more people, but we'll talk

669
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 2: about it. She is going to save some more people.

670
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: In the US, there was a bill called the Wagner

671
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: Rogers Bill that would have allowed ten thousand German Jewish

672
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: children a year to come to the US outside of

673
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 2: the quota system, right, and it had bipartisan support, including

674
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 2: credit where's credit is due because I already talked shit

675
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: on them twice this episode. The AFL did back it,

676
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 2: The American Federation of Labor did back this, so did

677
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,959
Speaker 2: the xenophobic former President Hoover. But only twenty six percent

678
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: of Americans supported the Let's let kids in bill, Oh

679
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: my god, which is really damning. There's a lot of

680
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: reasons why the US shouldn't exist, but this is among them.

681
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 2: All the usual busy bodies came out against this bill,

682
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: the Daughters of the American Revolution, the American Legion, all

683
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: of the child of Confederate blah blah, you know whatever

684
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: those fucking groups are. You know, the American Legion spokesperson

685
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 2: said basically like, well, what's next twenty thousand Chinese children,

686
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: as if that would be like bad.

687
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 3: The moral bankruptcy that just exists at the core of America.

688
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the I've got mind, fuck you of countries.

689
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 2: And of course this entire time, people are like, there's

690
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: a conspiracy by rich Jews who own all the politicians.

691
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 2: That's why all this is happening, because anti Semitism never

692
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: fucking changes. When destitute Jews are trying desperately to not

693
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 2: escape genocide to themselves but get their fucking kids out,

694
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: people are like, seem suspicious. Yeah, they own all the politicians.

695
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: And the bill failed and ten thousand extra kids a

696
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 2: year were not saved. Francis Perkins supported that bill, but

697
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: not with much political weight because she'd already burned all

698
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 2: of her political capital because she'd tried to do the

699
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,959
Speaker 2: right thing for defending a different immigrant in nineteen thirty four.

700
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: The longshoremen, which are like the dock workers who load

701
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 2: and unload ships staged a massive strike and was organized

702
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: by the ISLA, the International Longshoremen's Association, which at the

703
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: time was part of the afl that moderate union that

704
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: I keep talking about, but this union is more radical

705
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 2: roots than that, And this strike is the second I

706
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: promised you, two strikes that change a lot of things

707
00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 2: about American labor. The earliest West Coast longshoreman organizing had

708
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 2: been done by friends of the Pod, the Industrial Workers

709
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: of the World, who I work into every episode, apparently

710
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: by accident. And after this strike that we're going to

711
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 2: talk about, they form a new union. The strikers form

712
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: a new union, the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, which

713
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: is still around and is proudly independent, and they're actually

714
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: kind of cool, and I just want to shout this

715
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 2: out because this is unfortunately a deviation from the norm

716
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: and American labor. For about twenty five years they were

717
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: part of the AFLCIO, but in twenty thirteen they actually

718
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 2: quit over a series of issues, including the fact that

719
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: AFLCIO had a more anti immigrant stance, and the ILWU

720
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: was like, no, we support all workers everywhere, you know,

721
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: we're an international union, Like fuck you. So they're cool

722
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 2: and their roots are this strike And nineteen thirty four

723
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: workers went on strike across the entire West coast of

724
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: the United States. This started with twelve thousand workers walking

725
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 2: out on the jobs. Soon sailors, engineers, firemen, and other

726
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: folks started joining them in solidarity, and you had thirty

727
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 2: five thousand maritime workers across the West coast. The Teamsters

728
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: refused to handle strike breaking cargo. And it's cool because

729
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 2: the head of the Teamster union was like, I don't know, maybe,

730
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 2: But then the Teamsters themselves, like the rank and file,

731
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 2: were like, we're not fucking touching that.

732
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: No.

733
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 2: Six workers were shot dead by cops during this strike.

734
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: In response to one day where two of the workers

735
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: were killed, the entirety of San Francisco shut down in

736
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: a general strike. In response, one hundred and fifty thousand

737
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 2: workers walked out for four days, which caused the mayor

738
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 2: to declare a state of emergency. This basically just like

739
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 2: scares the piss out of capitalists, you know.

740
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 1: Sounds like a successful fucking strike.

741
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, why.

742
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 3: Don't we do these anymore? Like across industries, you know, like.

743
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: There's I would say, there's a couple of different dancers.

744
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: Margaret might have different opinions than me.

745
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 2: No, I tell you, I'm curious.

746
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: I would say the two things are people can't afford

747
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: to and the second thing is people are cowards and

748
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: like are afraid.

749
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 2: Yes, I think a lot of that is that. I

750
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 2: think that we just like we don't have this like

751
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: culture of fighting anymore.

752
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: No, we're very okay with like this is my life,

753
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: this is what I get in sative, this is.

754
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 2: What I deserve because like now we get like I

755
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: don't know, even people who are like struggling to pay

756
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 2: rent and can barely afford food have smartphones and can

757
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 2: watch TV and listen to podcasts and you know, I

758
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: don't know, but I think a lot of it is

759
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: just the culture. And like also a lot of it

760
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 2: is just like organizing this hard work.

761
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 3: It is and it's easier to be complacent and so

762
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 3: we just do that. Yeah, yeah, damn.

763
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 2: And I think, actually, I mean, labor is coming back,

764
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,439
Speaker 2: but this is building on decades and decades of work

765
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 2: right when this stuff happens. The strike was successful. It

766
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: reinvigorated West Coast labor and increased it unionized all of

767
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: the West Coast ports. I believe all of them are

768
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: still unionized today. But I didn't look that up. And

769
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 2: there was a whole mini red scare over this thing,

770
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: like red Scare one point five, right, because the first

771
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: one was in nineteen seventeen, and then second one was

772
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: like more like nineteen forties or something. Don't fact check me.

773
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 2: And this mini red scare had really wild knock on effects,

774
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: like fucking up the political career of the Secretary of

775
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:39,479
Speaker 2: Labor Francis Perkins and diminishing therefore her capacity to save

776
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: kids from Germany.

777
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 3: That sucks. How did it affect her?

778
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: Oh on my tip, oh yay. One of the leaders

779
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 2: on this strike was a former wobbly like former IWW

780
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: guy named Harry Bridges, who was like really briefly in

781
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 2: the IWW, and then he was really briefly in this

782
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: like union that was probably communist and so people don't

783
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: like when people used to be communists in the nineteen

784
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 2: thirties and forties in the United States. His biggest problem,

785
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 2: his most immediate problem, was that he was an Australian immigrant.

786
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 2: And for three years after this thing, like no one

787
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 2: gives a shit and everyone's like, all right whatever, and

788
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: then like in nineteen thirty seven. Someone's like, wait a second,

789
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: he's an immigrant. We can use that against him, we

790
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 2: can deport him. And so the US government really really

791
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: wants to deport him for advocating for the overthrow of

792
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 2: the US government. There's a problem. There's two problems. One

793
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: is that he didn't advocate for the overthrow of the

794
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: US government, at least in any way where there was

795
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: any evidence that he did. So that usually isn't a

796
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: problem for the US government, especially during the Red Scare.

797
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 2: They're like, well, whatever, he's an immigrant, we'll just deport him.

798
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 2: But Francis Perkins got in their way because progressives who

799
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 2: did not like communism stood up for him and their argument.

800
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 2: I mean, Francis Perkins leaves in democracy and free speech,

801
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: like just like actually to the core of her being

802
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: is like, well, you can't deport someone for their ideological position,

803
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: you know, especially if there's no evidence of them holding

804
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 2: that ideological position. But like overall, like.

805
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 3: But even but still you can't do that.

806
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, And she burned her credibility by standing up for

807
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 2: what she believed in. Here she won. Harry Bridges was

808
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: not deported. He actually led that union that I was

809
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: talking about for like decades, but people fucking hated her. Now,

810
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: this is part of why she I think she tried

811
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: to stay behind the scenes all the time, right, is

812
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 2: because like misogyny and shit would go after her in particular, right,

813
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: and she got just tons of hate mail calling her

814
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: a commie jew. She regularly spoke about how both fascism

815
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 2: and communism were bad.

816
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 3: You know, Okay one of those is right.

817
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and like Bolshevism is looking so good, right,

818
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, but she's not a red you know,

819
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 2: like she's a progressive, and people somewhere along the way

820
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 2: lost the ability to tell the difference. Right, And she's

821
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 2: also one of the most devoutly Christian people in Washington,

822
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 2: And so whenever people are like, you're an atheist commie

823
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 2: and a Jewish atheist comedy and she's just like.

824
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 3: What the fuck, She's like, No, none of that.

825
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 2: This doesn't stop Congress from trying to impeach her, and

826
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: impeachment procedures are set into motion against her, and she

827
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 2: would I think, have become either the first or second

828
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: secretary of an apartment to ever be impeached. She is

829
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: not impeached. She like narrowly avoids it right, Okay, but

830
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: now she has to tread more carefully. And so even

831
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 2: though like she's been not stripped of her title, but

832
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 2: she's like kind of lost her access to like leavers

833
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: and making alliances and shit like that. Right, she's kind

834
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: of a pariah. She goes on to save thousands more people, okay,

835
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: and her political capital is gone, but she's the Secretary

836
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: of Labor. They hadn't impeached her. She continued to pursue

837
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 2: systematic solutions to the problem, which never work, and I'll

838
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 2: talk about some of them later, but she also worked

839
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 2: on countless individual well not countless, we have account She

840
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 2: worked on about three thousand individual immigration and visa cases.

841
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: She looked for loopholes to get people visas, like non

842
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: quota visas, like not immigration visas, but like, hey, come

843
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: on over, just visit for a little while. Like you know, oh,

844
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: you're like kind of a professor but not really a professor.

845
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: Let me let me show you how to point out

846
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: that you're really a professor, so you can get this visa.

847
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,720
Speaker 2: Ok And like she does this over and over again.

848
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 2: There's this book that comes out in twenty twenty five

849
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: by Rebecca Brenner Graham comes out from Citadel Press in

850
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. I have an advanced reader's copy and

851
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 2: a lot of my research, not all of it. A

852
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 2: lot of it comes from these other articles and things

853
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: on the other part, but a lot of the stuff,

854
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 2: specifically about working to try and get Jews out of Germany,

855
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 2: comes from this book. I really highly recommend it. The

856
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 2: book is called Dear Miss Perkins because she got thousands

857
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: of letters. I said, dear Miss Perkins, my husband is

858
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: trapped in Germany and I would like him not to die. Please,

859
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: how do I make that happen? You know? And she

860
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: answered letters constantly explaining, and it wasn't always like loopholes

861
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 2: like some of it was just like explaining to people

862
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,439
Speaker 2: how to get through these bureaucratic hurdles and things like that.

863
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: She personally advised the playwright Bertolt Brecht and helped get

864
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: his Christian but anti Nazi family into the US, where

865
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 2: he arrived in nineteen forty one. Later, of course, since

866
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: the US is also a nightmare state, he was driven

867
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: away from the US by the House of un American

868
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: Activities and he moved back to Berlin. After World War Two,

869
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: Congress continued to hate her. And the reason we know

870
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 2: how many people she saved through this way is that

871
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: they financed her report to figure out how many people

872
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: were coming not as refugees but as like visitors on

873
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: vi at her visas from various European countries, and the

874
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: overwhelming majority of these thousands of people were quote visiting

875
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 2: from Germany. So this is how they were like, Ah,

876
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: you're up to no good. You're working behind her back.

877
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,959
Speaker 2: Is they like proved as if it's a bad thing

878
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 2: that there's like three thousand extra people who aren't dead,

879
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 2: you know, right, So she tried to yet another tactic

880
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 2: after this, This is her last big legal strategy that

881
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: she tries. She's like, can we make separate quotas for

882
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 2: these people if they're all going to Alaska? And this

883
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: is complicated because Alaska, Okay, all the US is a

884
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: colonial project, right, but nineteen thirty nine, Alaska is like

885
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: extra colonial project. It is not a state. For another

886
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: twenty years before that, it was a territory and people

887
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 2: there had fewer rights and shit. Indigenous people had been

888
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 2: granted citizenship in the continental US, but had specifically been

889
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 2: left out of territories like Alaska, m H and so

890
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: basically she's like, well, we're trying to do our settler

891
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: colonial thing up there, because she's this is one of

892
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: her whatever, she's not on top of being anti colonial,

893
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 2: and she's like, well, maybe the xenophobes will let us

894
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: set up a Jewish colony in Alaska, you know, they

895
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 2: can help do land clearing and civilize the place. And

896
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: they go through enormous efforts to try and make this

897
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: project happen. Right, Congress is too xenophobic and anti semitic

898
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 2: to even let her continue the American expansion is project

899
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: by settling Jews in Alaska, even though Jews would not

900
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 2: have been allowed to leave Alaska or become US citizens.

901
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 3: And they were still like nope, yeah, oh thank you,

902
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 3: that's someone. That's how anti semitic we are. Yep, okay.

903
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: One of the things that people kept saying is Alaska's

904
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: too cold for Jews. And now the Jews in question

905
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 2: were like, we don't care. We'd like to not die please,

906
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 2: that's fine, we'll figure it out.

907
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:06,720
Speaker 3: We'll build a fire.

908
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's, of course it's frustrating because it's this

909
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 2: anti Semitic trope that Jews are all physically weak, which

910
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: of course has found its inversion in the Zionist hyper

911
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: masculinization of the IDF, where it's like we're the strong

912
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 2: Jews blah blah blah, like we two can commit a genocide.

913
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 2: The government couldn't get Francis Perkins out of the Department

914
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 2: of Labor. So you want to know how they finally

915
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: like kind of got her because they couldn't appeach her.

916
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: M tell me they got the ions out of the

917
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 2: Department of Labor. Okay, they restructured the government to keep

918
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 2: her from being able to continue to be in charge

919
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: of immigration. They did that specifically for that reason. So

920
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 2: it's half and half. It is very very heavily influenced

921
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 2: by her and wanting her to not be in charge

922
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 2: of this. It is also about they move it to

923
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 2: the Department of Justice. The other reason they do this,

924
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 2: because Perkins wouldn't have gone along with this, is that

925
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: as they're getting ready to enter World War two, they

926
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 2: want immigration cracked down on because they're afraid of like

927
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 2: Nazi spies everywhere, and they're like, we want to fingerprint

928
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 2: and investigate everyone who comes over to the country, and

929
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: Perkins is like that goes against the idea of like

930
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 2: settling refugees here, right, and so it's like it's about her,

931
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 2: but it's not like it's not though we hate Perkins, Bill,

932
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: you know, Perkins sees immigration as a civic function, not

933
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 2: a criminal function, and does not want it in the

934
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 2: Justice Department. But increasingly FDR is treating it as a

935
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 2: criminal thing, a justice thing. He adds one hundred and

936
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: fifty new FBI agents looking for suspected Nazi spies. Immigrants

937
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 2: are the top suspects. All the right wing people around

938
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: the nation are like, well, how do we know that

939
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: that person who is going to die in Germany isn't

940
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: a Nazi spy, you know, mm hmm, And like, yes,

941
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 2: there were Nazi spies, that's true, Okay, Yeah, like whatever,

942
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: you know, deal with them. I don't know, right whatever, Anyway.

943
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 3: I feel like most of them probably start of working

944
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 3: for the American government.

945
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Under Perkins, the i S had not fingerprinted immigrants.

946
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 2: Now under the Justice Department, their first project was to

947
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 2: track down, identify, and fingerprint four point seven million immigrants

948
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 2: living in the country. And so the like militarization of

949
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 2: the vorder is a real old concept.

950
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

951
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 2: Now she's still getting thousands of letters like dear miss

952
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 2: Perkins letters right for people asking for help, and instead

953
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: she like sadly responds to them all that it's out

954
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 2: of her hands, and she fords their request to the

955
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: ions at the Department of Justice, and so ends her

956
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: ability to help refugees by and large. In the end,

957
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 2: she served as Secretary of Labor for twelve years, holding

958
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 2: that position longer than anyone else ever has. After leaving

959
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: the government, she went back to teaching, then passed away

960
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 2: from a stroke at the age eighty five. At her funeral,

961
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 2: she had chosen the following Bible passage to read, be

962
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 2: ye steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord,

963
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 2: for as much as ye know that your labor is

964
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 2: not in vain with the Lord. And this had been

965
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 2: one of her favorite passages her entire life, and it

966
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: just defined how she worked. She would just be steadfast,

967
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 2: she would just do the work. And in twenty twenty

968
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 2: three there was a small ceremony placing stones atop her

969
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 2: grave in the Jewish tradition to honor her efforts to

970
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 2: save so many lives during the Holocaust, and to close

971
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 2: it out. We keep saying that progress isn't linear and

972
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 2: then we have to keep fighting. We can't rest on

973
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: our laurels. Israel is in the process of genociding the

974
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: Palestinian people. Yet, according to the BBC, of the sixty

975
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:02,720
Speaker 2: thousand refugees resettled in the and twenty twenty three, only

976
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 2: fifty six of them were Palestinian.

977
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 3: Wow.

978
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: In fact, there have been less than six hundred total

979
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: Palestinian refugees accepted in the US in the past ten years,

980
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 2: I believe as of twenty twenty three, when this article

981
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 2: came ounta to quote that article, the numbers are so

982
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 2: low in large part because Palestinians cannot follow the same

983
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 2: pathway into the US as other nationalities. The nineteen fifty

984
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 2: one Refugee Convention that established the United Nations High Commissioner

985
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 2: for Refugees and defined the criteria for refugees around the

986
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: world explicitly left out Palestinians living in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria,

987
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 2: the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza.

988
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 3: And what was their justification for why they did that.

989
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that. I assume it

990
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 2: is to play cad Israel. Yeah, and there's this thing

991
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 2: happening now where Republicans are trying aggressively to prevent Palestinian

992
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 2: refugees from coming to the US. But Democrats are not

993
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 2: doing Perkins level work to get folks here, and so

994
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 2: the system is entirely rigged against Palestinian refugees. So it's

995
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:18,959
Speaker 2: the difference between absolutely no Palestinian refugees because we hate them,

996
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 2: and almost no Palestinian refugees because we encoded our legal

997
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 2: system to make it so that they can't get here.

998
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 2: And I think it also has to do something with,

999
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 2: like I looked a little bit into this more. I

1000
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 2: think it has something to do with like how the

1001
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 2: consular system works and things like that, and how Palestine's

1002
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 2: like now recognized as a state and shit like that.

1003
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 2: You know, credit where it's due. Biden did announce in

1004
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 2: February of twenty twenty four the Palestinians who had otherwise

1005
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: face deportation would have that delayed at least eighteen months

1006
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 2: because it's like not safe to deport them.

1007
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: Currently eighteen whole month.

1008
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 3: The bar is so low, the bare minimum.

1009
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 2: The bar is like under the floor, ye, dig up

1010
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 2: the floor boards, yeah, and hell yeah. Instead just overseeing

1011
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 2: a system of making it impossible for refugees to get

1012
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 2: out while funding a genocide.

1013
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 3: Directly sending billions of dollars to Israel.

1014
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like was it twenty billion this week or

1015
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 2: something like that.

1016
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, oh my god.

1017
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 2: That's the story of Francis Perkins and the brief moment

1018
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 2: or someone in the US government try to do something good.

1019
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: And part of the reason I find the story so

1020
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 2: fascinating is that what she succeeded at was the individual

1021
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 2: level of writing letters to explain to people how to

1022
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 2: work through the visa system, you know, Like, and she

1023
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 2: did a lot of good work with like you know,

1024
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 2: those like the hundreds of kids who made it over

1025
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,879
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, right, you know, but the big

1026
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 2: systematic things weren't able to be changed from within the system.

1027
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 3: Bummer but unsurprising, And it is cool that she was

1028
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 3: able to leverage what power she had to do what

1029
00:56:59,280 --> 00:56:59,720
Speaker 3: she could.

1030
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like that's like a lot of

1031
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 2: the like girl Boss. Modern feminist politicians are like kind

1032
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: of into bringing up her legacy, and I'm like, until

1033
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 2: you burn your bridges by doing what's right, like I

1034
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 2: won't hear it. Yeah, you know, but right, they're the

1035
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 2: ones virtue signaling. Yeah that's true, Yeah, very much so wow. Anyway,

1036
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 2: that's our episode. Francis Perkins the first, the first liberal

1037
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 2: I've had on this show, but like, you know, took

1038
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 2: it real seriously. Did the work pretty cool? That's what

1039
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 2: we ask at people. Yeah, And if anyone wants to

1040
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: do the work with you of script writing, or if

1041
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 2: you want to shout out something else out, here's your plugs.

1042
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: What do you got?

1043
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 3: Yes, you can take my screenwriting classes that I teach

1044
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 3: online and I have a batch coming up in September,

1045
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 3: so you can go to my website, Caitlyn Toronto dot

1046
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 3: com slash classes and find out more information about those.

1047
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 3: And you can always listen to my podcast that I

1048
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 3: co host with Jamie Loftus and we discuss movies through

1049
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 3: an intersectional feminist lens. And it's called the Bechdel Cast,

1050
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 3: and you can listen to that wherever you find.

1051
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 2: Podcasts, And if you google Margaret Kiljoy Bechdel Cast, you

1052
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 2: can hear the three of us talking about one of

1053
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 2: my favorite punk movies, which is about Swedish punk teenage

1054
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 2: girls called We Are the Best.

1055
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 3: It's so such a good movie, such a good episode. Yeah,

1056
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 3: if you've never listened to the Bechdel Cast, before start there.

1057
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh plugs, uh Weird Little Guys. You should

1058
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 2: listen to a podcasts called Weird Little Guys. You should

1059
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 2: also listen to Hood Politics a prop and you should

1060
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 2: listen to Better Offline. And that's it. Those are the

1061
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 2: only Coolzone Media podcasts. Besides, it could happen here and

1062
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 2: behind the Bastards And wait is that it? I don't know, Oh,

1063
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 2: sixteenth minute of fame? Oh my god, how about I

1064
00:58:58,680 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 2: forget that one?

1065
00:58:59,520 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 3: Hello?

1066
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: Oh, listen to Saddle Old Girk because you might get

1067
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: a second season next year.

1068
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 2: Whoa, I want a second season of that because I

1069
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 2: want more rich Russia. Well, actually, if they're not really

1070
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 2: the bad guy, that means in this.

1071
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: One we'll have another hand or Hand series this year.

1072
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 2: Also, that's good.

1073
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, just not it's at all girk.

1074
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I'll see you all next week when

1075
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 2: I bring you more Cool People Who Did? I can't

1076
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: do a cool voice with it. When I bring you

1077
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 2: more Cool People did Cool Stuff? Bye bye.

1078
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

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Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

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Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

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Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts.