WEBVTT - PBS Chief Paula Kerger Makes the Case for Public Broadcasting Amid Peak TV1 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:13.080 M Welcome to Strictly Business, Varieties weekly podcasts featuring conversations 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.680 with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:21.800 I'm Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today, 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.560 my two guests offer perspective on aspects of the broadcasting 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:29.800 business that we haven't covered closely on this podcast. Paula Kerger, 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:34.760 president of PBS, discusses the mission of public broadcasting and 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.839 why it still matters in a world awash in content. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:43.680 Neil Saban, vice chairman of Chicago based Wigel Broadcasting, explains 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.840 how a family run company with a handful of stations 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:50.440 wound up being a pioneer in the multicast network arena. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.840 With channels like me TV, Wigel has proven that reruns 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.680 of Bonanza and Perry Mason can still pack him in. 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:09.280 Welcome back to Strictly Business. Paula Kurder, President and CEO 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.119 of PBS, Thank you so much for joining me today. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.160 Thank you for being with me. Paula, you've been the 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.360 head of PBS for going on fifteen years now, and 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.280 I can imagine that that's never been a cushy gig. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.560 It's PBS is always in in terms of its funding 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:29.520 and the and the support that it receives from the 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.960 federal government and from the public. There have been, you know, 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.280 many ups and downs. I'm sure you knew going into 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:38.480 the job that that would that that was going to 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.039 be part of it. I also have to believe that 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.119 the last twelve months or so have been probably among 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.600 the most some of the most challenging that you've faced 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:51.040 in running the nation's non commercial public broadcasting network. Let 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.400 me just start by asking you, how has PBS at 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.400 the national level and what are you seeing from the 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.880 grassroots of the affiliates. How has PBS fared in the 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.560 COVID crisis. Yeah, it's uh, look, a lot has changed 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:05.680 in the fifteen years that I've been in this job, 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.280 you know, as you look across the media landscape. But 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:13.400 this last year has been extraordinary. I guess that's the 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.200 best way to describe it. And everyone I think you 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.600 talked to would probably say the same thing. But in 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.200 a very odd way, I feel like this has been 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.000 probably the most important year for PBS, and that's because 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.000 I think so much of what we've been able to 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:33.160 do this this last year has been built on what 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.600 has been a fifty year history of work that we've 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.760 done across the country. So this past year we had 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.400 actually planned to celebrate our fiftieth anniversary. We were going 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.160 to do the usual things one does, pull out old 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.120 um you know, clips of people that have appeared on 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.880 public television. We were signed on by Julia Child, so 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.640 we had great clips and so forth. But um, but 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.680 I think that you know, it started actually pretty fast. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.920 So last February I got a call from Austin Bututner, 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.760 who you know, the superintendent of l A Unified and 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.400 he actually have a public television station and he was 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:14.000 anticipating that kids were gonna be home, and he was 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.160 particularly worried about kids that weren't going to have access 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.280 to broadband, and he wondered if there was anything that 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.720 we could do to help. They have a station with 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.359 just a few employees, and so we got our l 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.880 A station engaged and some of the stations came together 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.720 and we run a service called Learning Media, which is 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:36.200 a broadband service that delivers K twelve content directly UH 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.080 to UM two computers. And we looked at how we 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.680 could build something for broadcast as well as well as 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.400 amping up the service we provided through broadband, and we 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.240 were often running. You know, actually the l A model 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.960 was uncopied around the country. I think almost every state 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.200 now has picked up some version of that. We were 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.440 reaching about a million teachers a month before COVID, and 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.720 we went up. I think initially we went up to 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.080 like three or four million, and now it's stabilized. It's 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.600 it's about three million UH users a month. So I 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:08.200 think the educational work has been significant, and because we 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.120 have relationships in school systems across the country. Remember we 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:16.400 started as educational television. It was there was that. Obviously 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:18.960 the news, this has been an important news year and 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.880 people I think have hungered to look for places where 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:26.240 they could find information they could trust. And so um, 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.839 you know, Judy Woodruff started doing the news out of 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.560 her house and in front of that beauti case, as 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:37.400 others did. And we had amazing team Michel Cinder at 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:41.360 the White House and Amina Novaz and Lisa de Jardin 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:45.160 who did amazing reporting on January six. So there was that. 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.040 And then can I ask you, Paula about on the 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.159 education initiative we did that? Was that something that cost 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.479 you resources with it? Was that something that you had 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:57.000 to to put some put funding into to make happen 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:58.800 or did were you able to do it with existing 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.839 existing infrastructure? We had a lot of the infrastructure already built. 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:06.400 So my point of being sort of ready, Um, we 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.800 didn't have to suddenly create a whole new business. We 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.360 had it and so um, you know, we did spend 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.760 some additional money to you know, embellish the work that 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.000 we already had underway, but we had a lot of 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.920 it already done. And uh and so that you know, 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.520 that end has ended up being you know, I think, 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.520 tremendously important across across the country. And then you know, 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.560 obviously in the new space, we also have invested a 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.839 little bit more in some of that news coverage because 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.279 there was just so much that was happening and and 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.359 just being able to pivot from working out of a 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.880 studio to working in all these remote locations and so forth. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.560 And then you know, the the other thing is we 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.920 thought a lot about you know, people at home and 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.040 what are you what are people looking for? They're looking 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.680 they're looking to be entertained, they are looking to be 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.719 reminded of, uh, perhaps aspects of our better selves. We 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.040 we brought some of ken Burns work back beginning of 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.599 baseball when they delayed last year's baseball season. We we 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.120 rolled out a lot of Broadway and theater and other stuff, 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.159 and then George Floyd was murdered and so we then 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:16.800 quickly pivoted and there our work over frankly decades really 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.280 came to the four because we had a lot of 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.599 content that we had produced around race in America that 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.159 we were able to bring forward, including Skip Gates recent 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:30.440 project on reconstruction. So UM, you know, so I feel 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.560 like every step of the way we've moved, but look, 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.039 we we made a lot of stuff up on the fly. 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.120 We went from an organization that worked in a largely 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:44.160 office space two largely working remote. Even some of our 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:48.760 technical crew who keep the entire interconnection going for the 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:53.080 whole country. UM, some of those UM staff members also 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:57.640 started working remotely. So it wasn't just the UM the 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:02.920 content that we continued to explore, you know, new opportunities, 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.960 but we also looked very hard at the technology itself 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.440 and how we will be able to support it working 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.560 at a distance. How have the events and all this 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.440 activity and people you know, spending more time with PBS 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:21.360 and really recognizing has that translated into a boost in fundraising? 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.240 At either institutional level or at the or at the 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:29.160 individual donor level. I'll particularly comment on you know, because 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.280 you asked me a few minutes ago about our stations, 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.120 which I realized I didn't fully answer, and uh, so 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.320 I can tell you a bit about you know, I 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.320 described what happened in l A and obviously that's through 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.120 our local stations and that we helped to enable that 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.680 work across the country. But I think for for our 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:52.520 stations being able to um benefit from the fact that 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.280 people were watching a lot of PBS over the course 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.840 of this last year, so many of them actually have 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.440 seen an increase in the number of people who become 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.800 members of the of their stations. Corporate money, uh, sponsorship 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.400 money has has been harder, and for any station that 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.080 has been raising money around events and so forth, that 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.400 also has been harder. So I would say it's a 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.040 it's a little bit of a mixed story. But I 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:21.200 look a year ago, I was really prepared that things 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:23.800 were just going to go off the cliff and that 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.960 because I mean, who knew where all of this was 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:32.280 was heading, and um, we were very much focused on 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.520 a few things. Is just making sure that we were 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:39.880 delivering all the core activities that stations really needed. We 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.240 obviously we're looking very carefully at our pipeline and we 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.840 do work well in advance. So we were in again 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.200 in a different position than some of the networks who 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.800 got caught scrambling a bit to phil broadcast. But we 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.120 had a pretty rich pipeline. It's not to say we 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.800 weren't impacted, and we were in some of our programs 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.800 like Called the Midwife, which is um a drama presentation, 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.520 has gotten pushed out, and Road Show did not take 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.400 this past year because they you know, they couldn't, and 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.600 so um and so there were There are definitely series 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:13.800 that have been impacted. But I think for the most part, 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:17.640 we've had a pretty strong season of fresh content and 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.000 the stations I think part of it is because of 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:21.800 all the education work they were doing. Part of it 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.600 because people were watching and we had really strong content. 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.559 Um knock on wood. It's been a it's been a 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.720 reasonably good year. Not for all stations. Some really have 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:35.600 have had a deeper impact. Some areas that were affected 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.160 deeper than others clearly have. But I think for the 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.920 most part, you know, sort of fingers across we've never 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.520 been a watching and funding it public products. Right, it's 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.640 the only one anyone to think the dollars just pouring 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.840 right in. But right, But it's very different than I 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.240 thought it was going to be the case that we 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.199 were going to look at stations who were going to 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:58.040 face existential, you know, crises moving forward. I think we're 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.600 I think we're you know, reasonably good place now, but 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.080 obviously they're gonna be looking carefully as we look ahead. 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.600 What is your total affiliate base right now? Is it 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.240 about two stations or so? You know, we have three 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.680 thirty five stations, so it's a lot. It's a lot. 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.240 And you know, they serve everything from you know, New 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.520 York City to the MIDGI Minnesota. And by the way, 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.839 the MIDGI station actually does a light a nightly newscast. 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.400 So it's been they have a big share. They do, actually, 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.240 they have a very big share. And it's uh, and 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:33.520 I haven't visited every station, but I've visited most. I've been. 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:38.040 Right before the lockdown, I visited my fiftieth state and uh, 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.520 you know, it's uh, it's amazing when you see some 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.120 of these operations. You know, again I point to the 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:47.480 news hour, I mean the coverage they were able to 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:52.840 do with the very small staff. Is uh is truly extraordinary. 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.520 But it's um so I always say, we punch well 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.240 above our weight. Let me ask you, has it you know, 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.120 at a time of of you know, incredible growth of 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:07.199 programming platforms and competition for content costs rising, has that 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.960 programming pipeline that that PBS has always been so good 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.240 at planning and planning far out with co productions and 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.160 things you know, coming from all sorts of all sorts 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.400 of sources, not just in the US. But is that 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:23.280 programming pipe pipeline squeezed now because there is so much 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.920 demand for global content there um In some areas it 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:32.559 is tougher. Drama is tougher, but we seem to find 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:37.120 drama that you know, that people really love and you know, 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.000 all creatures great and small. This um this winter which 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.760 turned out to be I watched it like a regular viewer, 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.679 you know. I I watched it on Sundays and just 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.040 it just carried me through the long dark winter. Um 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.640 And and it was cold in here unlike l A. 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.880 But you wouldn't have had the same significance for you, 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.199 but here in Virginia. Yeah, I'm in Virginia. So Yeah, 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:01.640 it was called Winner. We had a lot of snow 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.600 and so and so I'll creatures a great song. But 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.120 so I think I would say that the drama pipeline 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.280 was a little harder to create an opportunity. So we 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.320 had a couple of things fallout. We just picked up 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.199 a series called Atlantic Crossing, which which actually started running 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.360 last week and has done has done reasonably, has done 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.400 very well. Actually it's uh, um, it's a it's an unknown, 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.800 untold story of um. UM, you know, a World War 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.520 two story UM with Churchill and um. You know, so 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:35.959 I think that um, there is a you know there 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.240 there is there is complications there. I think in the 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.480 in the documentary space, it's interesting because you know, I 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.600 read article after article about this is really the golden 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.120 age of documentaries in any way, It's true, a lot 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.560 of great documentaries. We all watched the record number of 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:55.760 documentaries that were submitted for Oscar consideration this year. UM 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.359 and a lot of streamers in particular picking up documentary. 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.600 But a lot of them, you know, are now moving 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.679 towards more you know, sort of the programming that that 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.679 drives off of current events, like the HBO series UM 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:14.520 on Q and on too, the to crime and so forth, 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.280 and so you know, again we kind of sit by 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.160 ourselves over here. So you know, I'm just really interested 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.400 in looking at ways that you know, we can continue 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.600 to expand stories, particularly stories that aren't that aren't often told, 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.560 are often well told because ultimately I don't have to 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:37.040 um adhere to the same pressures that commercial organization will 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.200 in terms of audience size. I can take a little 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.680 bit more risk and bring stories forward that you know, 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:46.479 just important stories. So you know, I would say that, um, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.920 you know, for us, the interesting question is is all 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.199 the platforms and which ones we should pursue. We did 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.040 a deal last year with YouTube TV, which has turned 0:13:56.080 --> 0:14:00.079 out to be good brand matters and so um and 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.720 as you said a little while ago, people are you know, 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.920 people understand the PBS brand, They understand what it means. 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.400 And uh, a lot of our stations have more aggressively 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.319 adopted either the PBS logo or the PBS name is 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:18.200 part of their their station itself. And so I think 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.160 that um that is all, you know, really redound to 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.920 the good, particularly as you're looking at distributing a multiple 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:31.400 platforms broadcast obviously cable, satellite, but also um digital streamed um, 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.640 you know, places like YouTube. It's a it's a constant 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.440 question for us of where our viewers, where would they 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.240 expect to see our content? How do we put it there? 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.280 But more importantly, how do we put our stations there 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:48.480 with content branded for them so that it's clear that 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.040 not only are you getting great work by ken Burns, 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.400 but if there's companion pieces that the stations have also produced, 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.040 it's all there, you know, for you to see and appreciate. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.600 Do you get any have you seen any benefit in 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.800 terms of the rise of the digital m v p 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.920 d s, the YouTube TVs, the Roku's, the Hulu Live 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.240 do those? Do you get any kind of fees for 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.040 carriage when you're on those platforms? I know in the 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.440 traditional world it's often governed by what is known by 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.360 the wonky term of must carry in FCC parlance, and 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.040 you get carriage but not fees. Is that the same 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.840 in the digital world? We get carriage and nut fees. 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.360 We have on some of the some of our part 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.240 partners have helped us to phrase some of our costs 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.600 of getting our stuff up, but we're really it's not 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.360 it's not a revenue stream for us in the same 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.160 way that it would be you know, for commercial organization. 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.800 And we're also careful around the advertising part for you know, 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.280 some of the streamers that are ad supported, although we 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.680 have experimented, we have started experimenting with some older content 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.400 just as a way to push our material out. Um, 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.800 we have rights for some older content and not for others. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.680 And we're just I'm just really interested in trying to 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.520 hit people wherever they may be watching, to just remind 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.280 them of all the great content within PBS. UM. So 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:12.480 like everyone else, Um, you know, we're just we're just 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.640 I don't think anyone's really figured this out. I think 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.520 everyone is just trying a lot of different opportunities and 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.000 that's certainly what we're doing. And I'm I'm grateful to 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.480 our stations because, um, you know, you know, at the 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:29.040 beginning of of this really interesting media period that we're in, 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.240 you know, I know that there were some that were 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.440 very nervous about you know, moving beyond the realm that 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.200 they completely controlled, which is what you had when you 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:41.520 had a broadcast stick. But you know, they, you know, 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.240 the stations really understand that for us to be in 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.000 multiple places and to have our brand out there, if 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.520 we're if we're purposeful about it and and try to 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:55.040 connect the dots back everyone everyone benefits. So so we've 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:59.680 been spending a lot of time thinking through all of that. Yeah, 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.120 as you know, as I think I said in the beginning, 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:06.320 it's leading this organization has never been, never been a 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.800 cushy job, and probably never been more more challenging than 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:11.920 it has been in the last in the last bunch 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.960 of months. Um, Paula, what would you say in your 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.000 background You've been CEO of PBS now for fifteen years. 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.480 What would you say in your background, your work experience, 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.520 or your life experience that best prepared you for the 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:27.119 challenges that you have now as CEO. Yeah, it's a 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:31.199 it's a it's a good question. I think I'm going 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.760 to answer it in a funny way. I think in 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.720 some ways, Um, some of the things that the best 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:42.879 prepared me to manage this organization have been frankly working 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.280 for people who weren't such great managers, because you do 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.639 learn more. I mean, I've had great mentors. So I 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:50.720 don't mean to sounds so flip about it. And I 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.760 fishure that I've continued to talk to over the years 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.399 because we all keep running up against things we've never 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.119 experienced before. Lord knows, this year has been filled with 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:04.040 those experiences. But UM, but I think that you know, 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:09.240 clear communication, UM, frequent communication, which is certainly been important 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.919 this year. UM is being able to listen well, but 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:16.520 to make decisions and move um. You know. I mean, 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.280 these are all aspects of leadership that I've not always 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.000 found in people that I've worked for, And I know 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.359 the impact that it had on me, and so I 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.240 think that you know that's prepared me, uh pretty well, 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.600 I'm I'm. I guess the other thing is, you know, 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.119 just just on a personal basis, I'm interested in a 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.159 lot of things. I started out in college in pre 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.720 med um because I was always interested in science. I 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.119 failed organic chemistry, I took a lot of liberal arts classes, 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.399 panicked i'd never graduate, got a degree in business. But 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.280 I always carried forward to all these different interests. And 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.520 I think that also is I think, I think in 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.360 a funny way, that's helped me because I just had 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.600 a lot of cure curiosity about a lot of things. 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.479 So I know to ask a lot of questions. I 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:09.280 also understand the scientific method, and I know that you 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:13.280 can actually land decisions and without full information. And so 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.880 I think all of those things actually, you know, came 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:18.880 to came to the four when I hit the job. 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.439 It's interesting you've mentioned it now twice about when I, 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.399 you know, this has never been an easy job. I 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.960 remember when I was doing the first round of interviews 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.280 when I was first announced that I had been appointed 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.480 to this job, that somebody I interviewed with it was 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:33.520 a radio interview. I just can't remember what it was. 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.040 It's like sort of likened it to walking into the 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:40.119 gates of Hell, which I thought was so bizarre, and 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.080 I said, well, I I'm not exactly sure that's what 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.280 you know, we'll feel like. But anyway, I appreciate the 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:52.560 you know, the the the question. But um, what I 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:57.840 um have thought about actually as I have, you know, 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.600 have been in this job, is that my speech I 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.440 gave was right around the time that that Apple announced 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.119 they were going to sell episodes of Desperate Housewives for 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.200 a dollar ninety nine, right, that that was a groundbreaking thing, 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.080 and it just sounded so weird, like who would spend 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.040 a dollar ninety nine on an episode of Desperate Housewives 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.160 to watch on a tiny screen? Watch on a little screen, Right, 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.760 But it was the signal of how everything was going 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.280 to change. And I think that, um, you know, if 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.040 you just look at the arc of everything. I mean, 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.080 someone gave me a Netflix subscription as I was moving 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.639 from New York to Washington. It was it was the 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.360 you know, the DVDs. You know, So just in the 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.280 arc of time that I've been in this job, it's 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.119 the entire world is shifted. And I think that you know, 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.280 the the for me, you know, the other things sort 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.679 of in life experiences. You've got to be willing to 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.280 take risk and know that you know, even if you 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.000 can't ultimately predict what the outcome is going to be, 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.399 that um, you're gonna go on some path and you know, 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.320 chances are you won't get killed in the process, and 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.720 that you're gonna learn something. This is what we learned 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.320 from all the digital people, right, is that the Internet 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:13.080 way of iteration rather than building perfection, and which is 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.200 the I think the biggest sea change in again, in 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.959 in our business is that, um, you know, you just 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.480 have to keep you know, trying different things, but you 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.960 can't be afraid. And I think that's the That's the 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.000 other I think really important theme and everything that we've 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.640 tried to do is just let's take some let's let's 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.199 take some risk. It's very hard for nonprofits to do that, 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.159 by the way, because you're always worried that, you know, 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.760 someone's going to accuse you of wasting their money. But 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:42.679 organizations don't grow unless you unless you fail some of 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:46.159 the time. And I think most people understand that. Do 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.840 you have a wish list or any any anything on 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:51.200 your wish list for PBS or for that your kind 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.360 of your cousin the corporational public broadcasting from the new 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.959 Biden administration? Oh yeah, I mean, I you know, I 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.480 think the thing that's um it for me is is 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.520 very exciting. It's that we have a teacher in the 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:08.399 White House, and uh, you know, Jill Biden has been 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:12.119 a big proponent of public broadcasting and and I think 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:16.399 that you know, again, if you understand that we're built 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:20.240 on this idea of educational television that was the original concept, 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:23.639 a lot of what we do still ties into that, 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.360 and so to have someone that is passionate about education 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.960 is hugely important. So, um, you know, we're a public 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.760 private partnership. That's what LBJ envisioned when he created PBS 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.080