1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Get in test with technology with text stuff from com. 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: Hey there, everyone, and welcome to Text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: and today we're gonna talk to you guys about something secret, 4 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: super duper secret, like above top secret secret. And we're 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: talking about Lockheed skunk Works. So skunk works has become 6 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: sort of a term that lots of different companies use, 7 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: although it is proprised area. Yeah, so not officially do 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: they use it, but skunk works has come to mean 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: like a a division or a project within a company 10 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 1: that is not hampered by bureaucracy, red tape, you know. There, 11 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: it's people given the freedom to works. Uh yeah, the 12 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: black ops kind of things that like the X Files 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: really enjoys talking about. Yeah, so, but it can be anything, right, 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: Like we've got another episode that we just did, the 15 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: Google Loon, which really that's part of Google X, which 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: in a way is kind of a skunk works for Google. 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: It's top secret, super advanced research. Perhaps less top secret 18 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: than the stuff that Lockheed skunk Works has been working on, 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: because they tend to be working on contracts for the 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: US government, yes, and specifically the military exactly. So we're 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,559 Speaker 1: talking about stuff that is at least on some level, 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: meant to protect people rights, meant to protect real human lives, 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: and therefore secrecy is important to maintain that. But before 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: we get into skunk works, we really need to just 25 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: give a quick overview of Lockheed Martin. Now, Lockheed Martin 26 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: as an entity is relatively recent the past couple of decades, 27 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: but both Lockheed and Martin have existed since the beginning 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: of the century. Yeah, nineteen twelve August sixteen, that's when 29 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: Glenn L. Martin, who was a pilot and someone who 30 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: would who built his own planes, had his first flight 31 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: back in nineteen o nine, But in nineteen twelve that's 32 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: when he formed the Glenn L. Martin Company in Los 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: Angeles and he was building planes there. On December nineteenth, 34 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: nine twelve, two brothers Alan and Malcolm Lockheed, who also 35 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: were in the process of building their own aircraft, although 36 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: they wouldn't have their first flight until nine, they founded 37 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: the Alco Hydro Aeroplane Company, which later they decided to 38 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: call the Lockheed Aircraft Company UM. And they were really 39 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: specializing early on in building fast sea planes that established 40 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: many speed and distance records for overwater flights. So, uh, 41 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: these guys all were at the very beginning. Yeah, we're 42 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: talking like airplanes had barely existed when these companies started 43 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: making stuff, not fall out of the sky. Yeah right, 44 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: And uh so it's funny. I like, I was reading 45 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: up on some of the engineers, and I kept coming 46 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: across names that I recognized, like Donald Douglas and James 47 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: McDonald which anyone who's flown a lot starts to recognize 48 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: these names because we have aircraft named after them. Um. 49 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: And both companies were absolutely instrumental in in defining what 50 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: the early airplane industry was. And also they were really 51 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: instrumental in helping the US military get its place in 52 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: an error combat. Right Without Without the engineers who would 53 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: come out of these companies, I don't think that we 54 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: would have done as well in um, several of the 55 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: wars that we've participated in. Yeah, not to mention just 56 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: commercial flight, because a lot of the developments that we 57 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: would have coming to the military flights would end up 58 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: being used in commercial aspects. Now, when we talk about 59 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: skunk works, were mostly talking about military because it's really 60 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: the top secret stuff. Uh. And we'll get more into that. 61 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: Before we get into get that far, we should talk 62 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: about some other early stuff at Lockheed. For example, in 63 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty, Lockheed built a prototype two seater pursuit aircraft 64 00:03:55,600 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: fighter called the XP nine hundred, and the US military 65 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: he ended up purchasing the prototype and redesignated it the 66 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: y P twenty four, and eventually they ordered five why 67 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: one P twenty four fighters and four why one A 68 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: nine attack aircraft. Now here's the fun thing about this podcast. 69 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: Y'all gonna be lettle letters and numbers. It's it's pretty unavoidable. 70 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: I I think that probably what's going to happen is 71 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: Jonathan is going to read those out. I am going 72 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: to say the nice nickname that someone has come up 73 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: for these things, and then we will proceed to call 74 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: it that nickname forever and ever and ever. Right, and 75 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: I don't have a nickname for these, so I'm just 76 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: calling him Bob. Bob was never actually built. Because here's 77 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: the thing that so the U. S Military had ordered 78 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: aircraft from Lockheed, but there was something else that happened 79 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: right around nineteen thirty, little thing called the Great Depression, which, 80 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: by the way, guys, wasn't so great. Pretty pretty crappy. 81 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: Now it's a pretty crappy depression. It was huge F 82 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: minus would not would not buy from again. No, no, yes, 83 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: I do not recommend um. Yeah. So great Depression obviously 84 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: was a devastating economic, uh global economic disaster. Yeah. And 85 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: Lockheed itself would go into bankruptcy in nineteen thirty two. 86 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: They go into bankruptcy. They were only bankrupt for five 87 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: whole days. After that, a group of investors kind of 88 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: swooped in and safed them, didn't it. Yep, yep. They 89 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: poured enough money to keep the company going. But those 90 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: five days, I mean the fact that Lockeed had been 91 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: struggling so for so long and then had finally gone 92 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: into bankruptcy, had had done a lot of damage, and 93 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: so that that plan to build those early aircraft with 94 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: the military fell through. So that would not be the 95 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: first aircraft order that Lockheed would really fulfill for the military. 96 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: But it wasn't too much longer after that that they 97 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: would manage to do it. Seven. Uh. There was an 98 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: important team led by how Hibberd and assisted by someone 99 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: who will become incredibly important in this podcast one, Clarence 100 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: Kelly Johnson. Yeah, and they were designing a new type 101 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: of fighter using twin engines called the XP thirty eight, 102 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: which eventually would be called the P thirty eight Lightning, 103 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: and it is awesome. It's been called the most maneuverable 104 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: and furthermore, the most beautiful plane in the Allied Forces 105 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: and in what would become the Allied Forces in World 106 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: War Two. It was if you've never seen a picture 107 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: of this, you need to look for the the P 108 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: thirty eight Lightning. Uh. It is is a particularly striking design. 109 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: It's it's these kind of jets for kids who are 110 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: my age. I'm gonna show my age here in second, 111 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: the kids my age who grew up in the realm 112 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: of G. I. Joe. And that was a big cartoon 113 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: on television. If you look at the law of the 114 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: vehicle designs from G. I. Joe you can see a 115 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: lot of it has has drawn inspiration from these early aircraft, 116 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: these very classic things, right. Um. Furthermore, it was an 117 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: impressive feed for the time, capable of speeds of four 118 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: miles per hour, which is about six per hour. Yeah, 119 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: that's pretty fast for the for it's time. Obviously, aircraft 120 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: today leave that in the dust. But right well, we're 121 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: still talking about engines that use moving parts and not turbines. 122 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: We're talking for pellers. Yeah, yeah, this this is before 123 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: the jet era. So ninety eight, Lockheed had the Model 124 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: fourteen Super Electra, which was a plane that ended up 125 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: breaking the speed record for circling the globe. It only 126 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: took three days, nineteen hours and fourteen minutes to get 127 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: all the way around the Earth. And uh yeah, and 128 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: of course it was piloted by a famous crazy guy, right, 129 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes. It's got to be difficult piloting 130 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: and electra when you've got boxes on your hands and 131 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: feet the whole time, and you know, especially if you 132 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: don't want to upset the jars of urine that you 133 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: have in the back. Howard Hughes was crazy, y'all. I 134 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: imagine he did not bring I actually think this was 135 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: I don't imagine that that was actually the same. I'm 136 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: pretty sure that by nine he wasn't quite uh showing 137 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: the the real symptoms of his later kind of disturbing behavior. 138 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: You know, he became a hermit, a recluse, But that 139 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: was later on. I think he was still you know, 140 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: he pretty much had it together that point. At any rate. 141 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: In um, that's that's when we're going to really get 142 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: started on these big military contracts. Right. Yeah, that's when 143 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: the US Army Air Corps, which was the predecessor for 144 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: the United States Air Force UH decided to ask for 145 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: a new jet fighter and they kind of put out 146 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: the world a jet fighter period. I mean, okay, that 147 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: the things is that previously the Army had kind of 148 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: rejected development of these propellerless jet engines in the thirties 149 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: because they didn't think it could be done until the 150 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 1: Germans went and did it, right, and then they said, well, 151 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: you know what, I guess we need some of let's 152 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: do some of those things. So they kind of put 153 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: out the request for proposal asking various companies to put 154 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: forth their their proposed solution to this, and Lockeed wanted 155 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: to throw its hat in the ring, and they decided 156 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,599 Speaker 1: that the best way to to innovate quickly would be 157 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: to create a special division within Lockheed that was not 158 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: going to have to answer to the corporate level at 159 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: the same kind of bureau addic process that everyone else 160 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: had to write, and that would wind up being the 161 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: basis of the skunk Works ideology for forever until now. Right. So, 162 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: originally it was called, you know, the official official name 163 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: is the Lockheed Advanced Development Projects and then later it 164 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 1: was renamed officially to Advanced Development Programs a d P. 165 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: But it's official nickname, which, like we said, it's it's trademarked. 166 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: It's got a logo is of course, skunk Works. And 167 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: the logo, by the way, is a skunk. It's it's 168 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: the cutest little skunk that has ever adorned machines. War 169 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: It's just about almost as cute as flower from Bambi, 170 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: but not quite but close. And so you might wonder, 171 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: why the heck would they be called skunk Works? Where's 172 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: that name come from? Okay, So the story goes that 173 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: when when this division was first started up, they you know, 174 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: it was wartime. Lockheed did not have any room on 175 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: their main floors for this new division. So they started up, 176 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: uh Mr Clarence Kelly Johnson UM bought a circus tent 177 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: and set it up somewhere like I imagine, in a 178 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: parking lot on the property of this facility and UM 179 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: and it happened to be next to a plastics manufacturing 180 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: plant which was really quite stinky yep. And so that 181 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: stinky odor ended up completely saturating that circus tent, making 182 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: it a very smelly place. And you know, but but 183 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: but it was all very secretive. You know, all the 184 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: projects that they were working on are really the one project, 185 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: this jet engine project that they were working on. It 186 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: couldn't be talked about. And so they were told when 187 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: they answered phones to to not say what they were 188 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: doing or give any kind of indication. And supposedly when 189 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: one engineer answered a phone, he he made this joke. 190 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: And and this joke is a little bit out of 191 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: my reach personally, having never read the comic strip Little Abner, 192 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: Um this, this is one of those newspaper comics from 193 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: the time. Um. But apparently in in this comic strip 194 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: there was something called the Skunk Works. Yes s k 195 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: O n K. It was a kind of a play 196 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: full misspelling of skunk because it's it was a couple 197 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: of country bumpkins who ran this um this this uh 198 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: still well it's not even a still really, because it 199 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: wasn't moonshine they were making. They were making Kickapoo juice, 200 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: and Kickapoo juice was made out of pretty much anything 201 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: they could get their hands on, and it was supposed 202 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: to be up to including skunks moose. The moose were 203 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: very popular because they would say lacks body, so they 204 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: would go knock a body unconscious to throw it into 205 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: the mix. And uh yeah, kickapoo juice was supposed to 206 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: be the most powerful alcohol. And dog Patch. Dog Patch, 207 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: by the way, is the location where Little Abner takes place. Okay, 208 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: all right, but but so so this engineer answered the 209 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: phone like like, hello, this is Skunk Works because it 210 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: was stuck and and it's stuck and and eventually, um, 211 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: I believe after the Little Abner lawyers gave them a call, 212 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: they changed it officially to Skunk Works. Yeah, so that 213 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: would happen later. That would happened later. They so they 214 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: started trying to develop a jet plane based around a 215 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: jet engine that had was not developed at Lockheed. In fact, 216 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: it was it was developed by the British is called 217 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: the Goblin. And before they really got down to designing this, 218 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: Kelly came out. Kelly Johnson came out and kind of 219 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: laid down the law. He sort of came up with 220 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: a philosophy. He was thirty three years old at the time, 221 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: which is just incredible to me. Yeah, it's a young 222 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: man who comes up with fourteen guiding principles, rules and 223 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: practices or what they're called. And we're not gonna read 224 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: out all fourteen, but I've got six of them I 225 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: would like to. Yeah. Yeah, So they're this pretty much 226 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: is just kind of the overview of how skunk Works 227 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: business gets done in order for them to do it 228 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: expediently at the quality they wanted. So number one was 229 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: the skunk Works manager must be delegated practically complete control 230 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: of his program in all aspects. He should report to 231 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: a division president or higher, meaning that Kelly wanted to 232 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: make sure that he had the authority to make the 233 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: decisions he needed to make in order to deliver upon 234 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: the these incredibly lucrative contracts and uh. And he felt 235 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: that if he had to dance around all these corporate levels, 236 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: that would slow things down and they would lose. So 237 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: he said, we can't have that. So that's rule number one. Uh, 238 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: we'll skip over a couple of Rule number three is 239 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: the number of people having any connection with the project 240 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: must be restricted in an almost vicious manner. Use a 241 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: small number of good people ten to twenty compared to 242 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: the so called normal systems. So these are really small, 243 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: nimble teams, and that was important for multiple reasons. One again, 244 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: he wanted to be able to move quickly, and the 245 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: more voices you have than you know you might have, 246 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: and it just slows everything down. And also because these 247 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: projects were top secret, it's a lot easier to keep 248 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: a secret if you keep the number of people who 249 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: know it to a small minimum. Yeah, I tell you, 250 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: you tell like twenty five people a secret, that secret 251 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: is gonna get out eventually. But if you tell two thousand, 252 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: five hundred people that secret, that secret, you might as 253 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: well not even make the secret in the first place. 254 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: That's why I don't tell anyone my secrets, especially podcast 255 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: as you can't trust us. Yeah, I'll tell you guys 256 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: a secret. Number five is there must be a minimum 257 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: number of reports required, but important work must be recorded thoroughly. Again, 258 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: this was to cut down the bureaucratic approach that didn't 259 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: have to keep on making reports over and over, taking 260 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: time away from actually doing the work. But he did 261 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: say that it's important that we record what we do 262 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: because accountability still has to be maintained. You can't just 263 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: have no accountability whatsoever. That would be a disaster. As well. 264 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: Number twelve, there must be mutual trust between the military 265 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: project organization and the contractor, the very close cooperation in 266 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: liaison on a day to day basis that this cuts 267 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: down misunderstanding and correspondence to an absolute minimum, again cutting 268 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: out all that interference. Number thirteen. Access by outsiders to 269 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: the project and its personnel must be strictly controlled by 270 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: appropriate security measures. This would actually come into a really 271 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: important story later on in skunk Works where people who 272 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: genuinely wanted to help we're not allowed on the premises 273 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: and it ended up destroying a project in the process. 274 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: Number fourteen is because only a few people will be 275 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: used in engineering and most other areas, ways must be 276 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: provided to reward good performances by pay, not based on 277 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: the number of personnel supervised. I think this was Kelly's 278 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: way of saying, I wants to get my money, y'all 279 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: Shakespeare to get paid, yeah, Because you know, this is 280 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: essentially saying I might have these really small teams that 281 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: I've asked for, but don't base my pay on how 282 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: many people I oversee. Based my pay on the results 283 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: that we get, which which we mostly include. Because we 284 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: were a little bit entertained by by all of these 285 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: like really imported. I mean, these these kind of business 286 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: structures have been used throughout corporate America and the world 287 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: exactly since the inception of skunk Works, but tacked onto 288 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: the end like get dudes paycheck, yes, which you know, 289 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: t again makes sense because it's not just it's not 290 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: just Kelly here, we're poking fun at Kelly, but honestly 291 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: referred to anyone who was a project leader, right because 292 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: again and if your project is incredibly important but it 293 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: has fewer people on it then say a typical project 294 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: in the main branch of Lockheed, you don't want that 295 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: to count against you. So that was he was really 296 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: looking out for his people. So even though we're making 297 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: light of it, he was. He was actually he was 298 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: being very thoughtful exactly. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean, 299 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: practicality was overall the thing of this that the mantra 300 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: of the entire operation is is quick, quiet, and quality. Yep, 301 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: he wants all three of those things. It has to 302 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: be secret, it has to be done on schedule, and 303 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: it has to be uh, you know, has to meet 304 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: the qualifications that the military laid out. In fact, that 305 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: was another one of his rules was that let's be 306 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: really clear about what the expectations are, so that we 307 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: can meet them and not waste time on things that 308 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: are not important to whatever the expectations are. So yeah, 309 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: top secret operation. In fact, employees were not allowed to 310 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: talk about what they were working on with anyone who 311 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: wasn't on their project team. So even other people who 312 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: are working in skunk Works at the time, you were 313 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: not allowed to talk about what it was you were 314 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: working on if that person wasn't also on that project. 315 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: So um, this one carry over to one of the 316 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: great testing facilities that would come into existence about a 317 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: decade later. We'll mention it a couple of times, but 318 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite subjects that I still I'm 319 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: determined to do an episode on sometime in the future. Anyway, Uh, 320 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: it's almost as though we continually get prevented from doing it. 321 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: I know. It's some kind of shadowy forces, almost like 322 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: some gentlemen wearing black suits will occasionally show up outside 323 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: of the offices of How Stuff Works and say, you 324 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: really don't want to talk about that, namely Alex Trebec 325 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: and Jesse Ventura sometimes sometimes been Bowlen, and you think, 326 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: like I thought he was on our side, but no, 327 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: he's working for the man anyway. So another thing that 328 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: we can mention is that the secrecy went beyond just 329 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: you know, don't talk about it, right. They went so 330 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: far as to start to disguise the buildings themselves. Right, Um, Yeah, 331 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: they had decoy buildings and they would cover some of 332 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: them or all of them in camouflage and netting and 333 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah, because you know, Pearl Harbor demonstrated 334 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: the value of being able to hide potential high value targets, 335 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: and you know, they were going to be working on 336 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: super secret projects for the military, so they considered themselves 337 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: a potential target. So this was really kind of a 338 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: practical approach to trying to minimize that the chance that 339 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: they would be hit by some enemy aircraft carrying bombs. 340 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: So they actually went to great pains to to disguise 341 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: their campus. Now, the very first jet that they started 342 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: working on, the one that had that Goblin jet engine 343 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: from the British, was designated the XP eight E jet fighter. 344 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: So the team started work on that in nineteen forty three, 345 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: four months before they were officially awarded the contract for 346 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: the project. And it would turn out that this apparently 347 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: was sort of yeah, that was essentially the military would say, hey, 348 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: you know what, we sure could use an an aircraft 349 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: that does this, this, and this, and the skull corks 350 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: would a we could do that for you know, we 351 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: might whip something up. They shake hands and then skunk 352 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: work goes out and pours a lot of time, money, 353 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: and effort into developing it, and then months later the 354 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: contract comes through. Oh yeah, yeah with it with the 355 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: understanding that eventually the money would come. And you know, 356 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: this was partially due to the or largely I think 357 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: due to the cleverness and machinations of Kelly Johnson, because 358 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: he uh he also in stated himself as the only 359 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: person who would get to talk to Air Force officers 360 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: and CIA agents. Um, yeah, there's a great everything comes 361 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: through him, which you know, which really streamlines the process exactly. Yeah, yeah, 362 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: you had that and puts him up as a as 363 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: a reliable He was the central voice. I mean, it 364 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: meant that you weren't going to get mixed messages because 365 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: everything was going through one source. I also have a 366 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: fun little thing I can talk about and a little 367 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: bit about about what it was like to go along 368 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: with Kelly on one of these meetings with the CIA. 369 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: I've heard him referred to as like W. C. Fields 370 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: without the sense of humor. Yeah, and this case, it 371 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: was more about the links they went to to try 372 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: and prevent being overheard, which I thought was amusing. But 373 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: we've got a lot more we're going to talk about 374 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: as far as skunk Works goes. Before we do that, 375 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor. Alright. 376 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: So ninety three they got that contract. Ninety four they 377 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: delivered the x P eighty Lulu Bell prototype jet fighter. Uh. 378 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: This was only a hundred and forty three days after 379 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: that kind of handshake deal had occurred. It was just 380 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: under five months and a little bit earlier than planned. Yeah, 381 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: by a full week. They delivered it a week ahead 382 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: of schedule. Uh. And the jet fighter would eventually become 383 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: known as the Lockheed P eighty Shooting Star. And that 384 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: was the very first jet fighter used by the U. S. 385 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: Army Air Forces. So some of the bombers that were 386 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: operating in Europe during the tail end of World War Two, absolutely, Um, 387 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: we're we're helped out by the creation of this vehicle. Right, 388 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: It's just that they weren't designed to do actual military 389 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: work yet, Like they couldn't fly a combat mission. They 390 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: weren't outfitted for that, and it wouldn't happen until after 391 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: the conclusion of World War Two. They would be used 392 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: later in the Korean War. Yes, so you might wonder 393 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: what looks like, Well, it's a single theater, single theater jet. 394 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: It's pretty simple, like a basic jet design that if 395 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: you can imagine what a fighter jet looks like, it 396 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: looks like a small version of that. That's what it 397 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: was by night. So a little four years later they 398 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: developed the T thirty three T Bird, which is also 399 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: known as the T thirty three Shooting Star, which is 400 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: mostly used at least in the United States. Was mostly 401 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: used as a training aircraft. It was meant to get 402 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: pilots who had had experience with propeller aircraft who actually 403 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: get jet aircraft r This was a brand new way 404 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: of flying, and very few people had any expertise in it, 405 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: apart from those crazy test pilots who lived on adrenaline 406 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: and are a totally different species as far as I'm concerned. 407 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: I'm a Nedraline junkie myself, but I cannot imagine living 408 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: that lifestyle where like what you're strapping me into this 409 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: thing goes you know twice the speed of sound. Let's 410 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: do it. No, a roller coaster adrenaline is great, Yeah, 411 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: actual death adrenaline. That's a little more than I can handle. 412 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: But yeah. So the first flight was piloted by Tony Lavier, 413 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: who would end up piloting lots of different test aircraft 414 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: for Lockheed um and it remained in service for a 415 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: long time in the United States as training aircraft. In 416 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: a few parts of the world it's still used as 417 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: training aircraft, and a few places even weaponized it, making 418 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: it a combat aircraft, which was never used in the 419 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: United States for that purpose. It was mainly there just 420 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: as a training vehicle. But some places in the world 421 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 1: have purchased T thirty three's and used them for for 422 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: combat jets. They they are. They are slightly overmatched, I 423 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: would say, by most modern jets, but but but still, 424 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: I mean a solid piece of machinery. It was a 425 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: little bit longer than the T, than the than the right, 426 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: and had a second seat right, which makes sense because 427 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: it was used for training. Had a second seat with 428 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: instrumentation and control, so kind of like you know, if 429 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: you've ever taken one of those driving courses where the 430 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: car has two sets of brakes and maybe even two 431 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: steering wheels. Yeah, so in that case it's kind of similar. So, 432 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,239 Speaker 1: like I said, it was used still used in some 433 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: parts of the world, mostly for training. Nineteen fifty they 434 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: came out with the F ninety four, which was also 435 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: developed I called the Starfire, right it was. It was 436 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: also developed off of the T Yes, that's right, and 437 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: it was meant to be faster and more maneuverable than 438 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: the P E D turned out. It was not that 439 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: that was the intent. It did not quite turn out 440 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: that way, but it was meant to kind of match 441 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: against Soviet aircraft. At this time, we're getting into the 442 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: Cold War, and so you had this escalation on both 443 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: sides of the Cold War, the Soviet Union and the 444 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: United States building all sorts of things. I mean, this 445 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: would also be what fueled the Space race, uh, shortly 446 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: after this time period we're talking about right now. So 447 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: they wanted to have something that was a little more 448 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: capable of going up against Soviet aircraft, which tended to 449 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: be smaller, less complex, and far faster and more maneuverable 450 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: than the United States version. So that was the idea. 451 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: It was a it was a twin cedar aircraft and 452 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: supposedly had very powerful instrumentation, including radar, that would allow 453 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: them to detect potential targets from quite a far away away. 454 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: In fact, it was so sensitive and so advanced that 455 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: the United States government did not really want pilots flying 456 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: the F ninety four they were enemy territory. They placed 457 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: restrictions to make sure that the technology wouldn't fall into 458 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: enemy hands. Yeah, which would come. And you know, it 459 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: turns out that's an important consideration because, as we'll see 460 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,479 Speaker 1: with some later aircraft, there were instances where certain aircraft 461 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: were shot down and there was a real worry that 462 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: that technology was now going to fall into enemy hands 463 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: and that any advantage the United States might have had 464 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: would be lost as a result. So that's why they 465 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: were very careful about where it could fly. It did 466 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: enter combat in the Korean War. Uh. There's a site 467 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: called Military Factory that has a great article about the 468 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: Starfire and said that it just didn't outperform the P 469 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: A D when it came to combat situations, but it 470 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: was able to uh inter combat with aircraft at night 471 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: because that radar was so sensitive that the crew aboard 472 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: the Starfire could navigate and find targets and fire upon 473 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: them just using the instrumentation while not using visuals. So 474 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: that's pretty amazing, and they called it a stop gap aircraft. 475 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: Like the idea was that until we can develop something better, 476 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: this is what we're going to use in the interim, 477 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: and by the late nineteen fifties it gets phased out. 478 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: Now that brings us up to an interesting test vehicle 479 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty one, the X seven Kingfisher. So this 480 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: test vehicle is different from other test vehicles. This was 481 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: not This was not really a vehicle so much as 482 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: an aircraft. It was it was not meant to carry 483 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: people at all. What was meant to do was to 484 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: mimic a missile. It essentially was a missile, but without 485 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: any kind of payload. So the idea was that they 486 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: would launch one of these from like a B twenty 487 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: nine or a B fifty and it would go into 488 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: ramjet operation. Right. Ramjet being a type of engine that 489 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 1: doesn't use moving parts. It takes an air at in 490 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: this case subsonic speeds and then using the pressure of 491 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: of the motion of the aircraft um it compresses that 492 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: air to create combustion. Hence that missile like design. I mean, 493 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: the entire body of the aircraft is essentially an airflow device. Yeah. Yeah. 494 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: In fact, one of these days we're gonna have to 495 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: do like a full episode about jet engines ramjet engines, 496 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: talk about the differences and why uh you know, some 497 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: are are sub sonic, some are supersonic, some are hypersonic. 498 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: But that that's such a huge topic to really get 499 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: into that it would this this series would go like 500 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 1: five episodes. So loved you that that's it's yeah, so 501 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: the yeah, it's pretty cool stuff. And so what was 502 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: funny about this thing was it was all meant to 503 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: allow the United States to test anti missile systems, right. 504 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: It was to give a target that anti missile systems 505 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: could aim at and fire at in an attempt to 506 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: bring it down safely without having an actual missile with 507 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: an actual payload flying around. Um. It also had a 508 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: very long nose that ended in a like a needle 509 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,479 Speaker 1: like projection. Uh. The idea being that when it was 510 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: when its fuel was spent, it would parachute down and 511 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: the needle would would land nose down in the desert, 512 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: and and that that would kind of cushion in a way. Yeah, 513 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: it's like kind of like a dart falling into the dirt. 514 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: Like the idea being that it would suspend itself, you know, 515 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: from this needle, and therefore the fins on this thing 516 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't get damaged in the fall. And it turned out 517 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,640 Speaker 1: that that was handy because it was hardly ever shot down. 518 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: That was the problem was that apparently the Kingfisher was 519 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: a bit too good at what it did, and it 520 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: was um so fast and agile. The anti missile systems 521 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: didn't hit it that frequently. It was very few hits 522 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: that were scored in the program overall. And because that 523 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: doesn't look so good to the military, like, well, our 524 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: anti missile systems are are terrible. That's not a that's 525 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: not a fun thing to say, all right, It wound 526 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: up being a little bit of an embarrassment. I think, Yeah, 527 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: so they scrapped the program because obviously that's the right choice, Like, 528 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: our missiles can't hit this thing, let's scrap it. Let's 529 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: redefine the rules so that we can we can win. Like, 530 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't think that's I mean, I'm 531 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: not a military expert. I just don't think that's how 532 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: winning works. I I think that really the issue is 533 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: that it was the incorrect technology for the project, for 534 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: for for for its purpose. But you're far more generous 535 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: than Iland. Uh So nineteen fifty four, there's I'm just 536 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: gonna mention this briefly because it will come into play. 537 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: We're actually doing this in two parts. This this uh 538 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: show about Lockheed and so this is part the first part, 539 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: but this is going to come into play in the 540 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: second part. Lacke develops the x C one Hercules YEP, 541 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: which was a four engine turboprop aircraft used in military transport. Now, 542 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: the original Hercules there wasn't that much innovative about it 543 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: other than the fact that they could carry a lot 544 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: of stuff. It was an enormous cargo plane. But there's 545 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: some stuff that they add to it a couple of 546 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: decades later that make it pretty um terrifying. But what 547 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: the hook about that? When I get to it? So 548 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: nineteen the Also in nineteen fifty four they developed the 549 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,479 Speaker 1: F one oh four Starfighter. Yeah, so, um now I'm 550 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: starting to think of like transformers at this point, and 551 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: so I know it's stars Scream and transforms. Don't write 552 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: to me. I know it's star Scream. I'm just saying 553 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: it's starting to get get that feel. So Starfighter, it's 554 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: a single engine supersonic interceptor and all right, go ahead, Sorry, 555 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: well no, no, I was just gonna say that this 556 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: was it was the first MAC two aircraft, which means 557 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: it travels at speeds of one miles per hour or 558 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: about two thousand kilometers per out pretty fast. Uh. It's 559 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: also you know, it was specifically designed to go into 560 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: battle against Soviet miggs at least, if ever we were 561 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: to go into combat with the Soviet Union. The MiGs. 562 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,719 Speaker 1: The miggs were incredibly maneuverable, so this was sort of 563 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: our answer to the Soviet miggs aircraft. Um. And uh, 564 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: you know, and an interceptor. That's what an interceptor is, 565 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: in case you're wondering, is a specific kind of jet 566 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: fighter that's designed to do air to air combat, so 567 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: not just other fighters but also bombers and other types 568 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: of aircraft. So it's a specific type of jet fighter. 569 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: Wasn't really designed to have any kind of ground operations, 570 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: so you wouldn't be using this to fire against ground 571 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: forces necessarily. Um. It has a really weird look to it. 572 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: It's very long and the wings look pretty stubby. Compared 573 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: to the body of the jets. So it just it 574 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: looks like a rocket with some thin stuck to the 575 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: side and a cockpit in it, and there's a person 576 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: in there. This is this is going to be another 577 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: one of those um ramjet based engines. And uh it 578 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: was operated mainly by the Air Force and the Air 579 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: National Guard, and NASA had a few because they wanted 580 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: to use them for supersonic test flights, because they had 581 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: this crazy idea about sending people up into outer space, 582 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: I know. And it turns out that if you want 583 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: to make sure that your human beings can survive the trip, 584 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: you might want to do some supersonic tests first, because 585 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: you're gonna be going pretty fast. Yeah. Yeah, So it 586 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: was really important there and about undred actually more than 587 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: were produced overall, but only seven thirty eight of those 588 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,239 Speaker 1: were made by Lockheed. Everything else was licensed to other manufacturers. Right. 589 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: They would be retired by the mid nineteen seventies, but 590 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: would continue or by the US anyway, but would continue 591 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: to serve in various air forces until about two thousand four. YEP. 592 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: And UH, the way this whole program started was Kelly 593 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: went to Korea and started talking to US pilots and said, okay, 594 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: what is it that you need in order? What do 595 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: you want? What if you could build your own aircraft, 596 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: what what would you want? And they said, we want 597 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: it less complex, smaller, and faster. Essentially, they're saying, you 598 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: know those Soviet maigs that they have, they want those. 599 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: So that was kind of the idea that that fed 600 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: into the development of the Starfighter. The thing that weirds 601 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: me out about this craft is that had this had 602 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: this downward facing ejection seat, so rather than than than 603 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: popping up and away. And I understand that probably I've 604 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: read that it was something about the shape of the 605 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: tail or the height of the tail that might have 606 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: made clearance difficult exactly, but nonetheless, sending me screaming straight 607 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: downwards out of a plane just sounds like and not 608 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: dropped right shot shot because you are in because your 609 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: jet may be in danger of exploding, so you have 610 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: to have these explosive charges that project your your seat 611 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: in a particular direction. In this case, that direction was 612 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: straight down, so that you would the bottom of the 613 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: jet would open up and you would be shot down 614 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: in your objector seat to clear the plane. Yeah, and 615 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: I am strangely enough not the only person who found 616 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: this kind of weird. The Germans had a really interesting 617 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: nickname for it. Yeah, that nickname would be vit vin Macher, 618 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: which means the widow maker. Yes, the widow maker. They 619 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: said that it was an incredibly dangerous aircraft and that uh, 620 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: that there were that you were more likely to have 621 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: a malfunction or some other kind of accident in it 622 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: in operation rather than ever getting shot down in combat. 623 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: That it was just an unreliable aircraft, and that there 624 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: were some big, big problems with it. Germany was not 625 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: the only country to say that. Now, there were other 626 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: countries that said that something like fifty of the aircraft 627 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: they lost fift of all the ones they had due 628 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: to operational accidents. Yeah, um not. Nonetheless, it would win 629 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: a Call Your Trophy in which is an award presented 630 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: annually by the National Aeronautics Association for achievement in either 631 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: aeronautics or astronautics. And it's it's a pretty big deal. 632 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: Like Lackie Martin would win six of these over the 633 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: course of their tenure um up until today. But you know, 634 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: so it was a big important craft. Yeah. Yeah, it 635 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: all depended on whom you us, right. There were some 636 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 1: who said the Starfighter was an inherently dangerous vehicle that 637 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: was poorly constructed and in fact alleged that Lockheed had 638 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: bribed officials in order to win the contract to make 639 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: a thing. But then there were other places that said, no, 640 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: we've never lost a single aircraft due to some sort 641 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: of operational error, so it all depended on you know, 642 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: who was doing the flying. I guess, uh, so it 643 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: certainly is controversial. Then there's the the RB sixty nine Neptune. 644 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: You know, here's the crazy thing about the Neptune. There 645 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: are two different types of neptunes. Okay, so the U. S. 646 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: Navy has neptunes, and these neptunes are maritime, uh surveillance, 647 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: not even surveillance. They just they just they monitor and 648 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: fly over oceans looking. Yeah, it's just patrol, right, that's 649 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: all it is. Um So it's not necessarily like a 650 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: heavy combat type thing. It just does these patrols. Well, this, 651 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: this Neptune was designed to look like the Navy's Neptune, 652 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: but instead of being operated by the Navy, they were 653 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,720 Speaker 1: operated by the CIA, central Intelligence Agency in the United States. 654 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: I just want to take a moment to say thank 655 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: you to all the men and women in the CIA 656 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: who always try very hard to keep us safe, and 657 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,479 Speaker 1: uh promise I'll be good. So the c I as 658 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: obviously one of those organizations known for being super secret. 659 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: I mean that's one. It's that's their job. That is 660 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: literally their job. Yeah, the the espionage is high up there. 661 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: They are all about material surveillance, which means like direct surveillance, 662 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: whereas the n s A, the National Security Agency which 663 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: we've talked about before, is all about electronic surveillance and 664 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: signal surveillance. So c I A Uh, they wanted to 665 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: have the opportunity to do some surveillance missions with aircraft, 666 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: and uh there there were so many of these of 667 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: these Navy neptunes in use that they were like, you know, 668 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: if we just built something that looks like a Navy neptune, 669 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: people will be It's it's like a you know, it's 670 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: it's it's a Navy, it's Navy aircraft. Yeah, corolla, it's everywhere, right, 671 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: no one's going to pay any attention. We're perfectly fun. Well, 672 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: we can hide in plane site. The Navy said, hey, 673 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: hang on there, buddy, if one of those planes is 674 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: shot down, that means you're going to blame us, the U. S. Navy, 675 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 1: because you're not going to come forward and say that 676 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: was our plane. And the c I said, yop, and 677 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: the Navy said you can't. You can't paint your plane 678 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,959 Speaker 1: to look like our planes. So they look like from 679 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: a from a just a from a body standpoint, Yeah, 680 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: they look identical. They are identical to these other and 681 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: the other types are designated P two V seven Neptunes. 682 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: That's the Navy's aircraft. The c I A is the 683 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: RB sixty nine. So they look from a superficial level identical. 684 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: Although each of those seven planes that was built that 685 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: were built for the CIA by hand, but hand it 686 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: looks different and is outfitted with different equipment. They could 687 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: do different things, like one of the things they would 688 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: occasionally do is drop leaflets on two countries to try 689 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: and promote you know, resistant and propaganda exactly. Um, so 690 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't always some sort of actual direct 691 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: combat issue. So uh, there were a couple that had 692 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: some sidewinder missiles, So there were a couple that were 693 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: ready for combat if it wasn't necessary, but none of 694 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: them ever entered combat. I believe someone were shot down, 695 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: but none of them I think went into a combat mission. Yeah. 696 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: Out of the seven that were built for the CIA, 697 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: five of them have been lost, either shot down or 698 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: we don't know, or at least we don't know. We 699 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: don't know, Johnathan and I don't know. No one has 700 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: told us. Yeah, there's no public information about what happened. 701 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: Like one of them disappeared over China, for example, and 702 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: there's no information that is publicly available about the fate 703 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: of that aircraft, although actually technically the fate of the 704 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: other two is not known to the public as well. 705 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 1: Is that right? The two the two surviving ones, we 706 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,280 Speaker 1: don't know where they are. They could be doing anything 707 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: right now. I think they're with Ben boll And and and 708 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: Alex Trebat. Yeah. Probably those men and Black have to 709 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,919 Speaker 1: get around somehow, right, So we don't know what those 710 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: two surviving aircraft are doing, but we have our suspicions. Uh, 711 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five, now here's where we're gonna end. Because 712 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,760 Speaker 1: this is also a big, big year for Lockeed skunk 713 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: Works and for the spy industry in the United States, 714 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: surveillance reconnaissance. This is when Lockeed built the U two 715 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: A Angel the or the YouTube the first YouTube plane. 716 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: So tech stuff has done a full episode about the 717 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: U two spy plane, So if you want to hear 718 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: all about it, I recommend you go back. Yeah, go 719 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: listen to that. That was published on March nineteenelve and 720 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,919 Speaker 1: was called tech Stuff Spies on the YouTube. So we've 721 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: got a lot more information about the entire process of 722 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: developing the YouTube, as well as some of the other 723 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: aircraft that we will be talking about in our next episode. 724 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: But this was big. It was a joint operation between 725 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: the CIA, the Air Force, and and Lockheed of course, right, 726 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: so because it was c i A, it was it 727 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: was called a black operation, meaning it was ultra secret. 728 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: And the reason why the CIA got involved, well the 729 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: United States, you know, the President kind of wanted to 730 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: have these spy planes, but Congress could oversee the budgets 731 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: the Air Force. Yeah, the budget for the Air Force. 732 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: So Congress is like scrutinizing all the money that's going 733 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: through to the military, and the President says, you know, 734 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: I'd really like to be able to build these planes, 735 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: but I can't do it through Congress because they're not 736 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: going to play ball. What if I had the CIA 737 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: the secret agency who the governance of which is a 738 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: mystery to almost everybody apart from the people who are 739 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: actually running things. Stuff they don't want you to know. Um, 740 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: how don't we have them build it instead? So it 741 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: falls under the CIA's budget, which was classified. People in 742 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 1: Congress could not see what the money went to. They 743 00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: knew that money was going to the CIA, but they 744 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: no idea where it was going. Beyond that. Only only 745 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: a small number of government officials knew anything about the 746 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: project at the time, right. So that project being the 747 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: development of the YouTube plane, which is an incredible aircraft. 748 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: It's still in service today. Um, there's still quite a 749 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: few in the fleet. And essentially what does is it 750 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: flies it really high altitudes, like seventy thousand feet. Yeah, 751 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: so twenty one kilometers that's that's almost twice the the 752 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 1: operating the normal jet engine like a passenger gener that's 753 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,399 Speaker 1: about right. Yeah, So it's about twice as high as 754 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: any of those. And the idea was that at that 755 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: altitude the YouTube could fly over radar and not be detected. 756 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: It also would be out of reach of any air 757 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: ground to air missiles or fighters, So in other words, 758 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: they could just stay up out of reach and spy 759 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: on whoever they wanted, and then there would be no 760 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: repercussions at least directly to that aircraft for the time being. 761 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: That would change pretty quickly. I mean, the whole industry 762 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: technology was moving forward very quickly, and especially you know 763 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,320 Speaker 1: as as part of the space race. Everything was developing 764 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: very fast, right, I guess space race wasn't really kicked 765 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: off quite yet. It was the early days were I mean, 766 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: there were there were people thinking about it, but not 767 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: a lot of action had happened in nine yet. But 768 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: this was definitely another another notch in the belt for 769 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: the United States in that Cold War, you know, another 770 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: thing that they could not brag about because they didn't 771 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: want anyone to know that they had them. But uh, 772 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: and and these would end up being tested at a 773 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: facility called Groom Lake, also known as Area fifty one. 774 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: And that's the subject I want to do an episode about. 775 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,720 Speaker 1: But wait, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm looking out the window. 776 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: I'm getting a little sign it's about time to wrap 777 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: up this episode, Lauren. Um, So, I guess, uh, I 778 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: guess uh. Apparently I gotta go and get coffee with 779 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: this person. Okay, So in the meantime, Guys, if you 780 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: have any suggestions for future topics of tech stuff, I 781 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: highly recommend that you write to us quickly. UH. That 782 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,879 Speaker 1: address is tech stuff at Discovery dot com. You can 783 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: also give us one minute. You can give us a 784 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: message on Facebook, Twitter, or Tumbler. We are tech Stuff 785 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: hs W at all of those and Lauren the very least. 786 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: We'll talk to you very soon for more on this 787 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works 788 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: dot com