1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 1: this started, blow and welcome to another episode of the 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Market Disruptors podcast. Today I am joined by Mona Elisa 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: and she is the CEO and founder of Melanport, which 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: is working in the decentralized finance space. She has a 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: really unique background working in traditional finance and raising money 12 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: through hedge funds and dealing with the bureaucracy and the 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: high expensive costs it takes to do that. She saw 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: those massive problems and figured out there's got to be 15 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: a better way, and she has since worked on decentralized technology, 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: using the blockchain to build new applications to cut down 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: on that red tape, cut down on time, and save money. 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: You got a really unique perspective. It was a great conversation. 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: Let's goad just jump right into it. Hey, everyone, welcome 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: to another episode of the Market Disruptors Podcast. Today. I'm 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: sitting down with Mona Elisa. She has the CEO and 22 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: founder of Melanport. Um there in the decentralized finance space 23 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: a really exciting area. I'm excited to sit down and 24 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: and talk with her this morning. Somna, welcome, thank you. UM, 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: great to be here, all right. So, UM, yeah, I 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: know you're in the decentralized finance space. You kind of 27 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: have an interesting background. UM, that's led you here. Why 28 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: don't you just fill everybody in and kind of what 29 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: you've been doing, um, and that brought you to the 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: space and what you're doing currently. Yeah, sure, so UM, 31 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: I mean I I started my career in London working 32 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: for Goldman Sachs and equity trading, which was kind of 33 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: a hybrid role between market making and prop trading at 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: the time. And eight years later A decided to go 35 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: and work for one of our clients based in Geneva, 36 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: who was a large hedge fund and I ran a 37 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: long short equity book for him. So I basically sat 38 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: on the other side of the trading desk, which was 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: kind of the investing role, investing other people's money and 40 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: m and four years later I got um made an offer. 41 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: This is this is a part of my life I 42 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: don't talk about very much. But four years later I 43 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: got made an offer by a small family office who 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: wanted to see me twenty million dollars to launch my 45 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: own long short equity fund, and I, you know, as 46 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: most young aspirational traders, I jumped on the opportunity, and 47 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: I thought, this is a this is an opportunity to 48 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: make a name for myself and my own track record 49 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: and do what I love doing. So I took the 50 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: offer and moved to Zurich and I tried to launch 51 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: my own long short equity fund, and my my dream 52 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: quickly became my nightmare because it was a horrible year. 53 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: UM Launching a fund with anything less than two hundred 54 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: million dollars is very, very difficult in this day and age. 55 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: UM there's an incredible amount of administration, operation compliance that 56 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: needs to be done, and I was very naive thinking 57 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: that I could do that with twenty million. I actually 58 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: raised thirty million in total UM. But basically within a 59 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: year I realized that most of my time was being 60 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: spent in an operational and administrative role when I should 61 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: have been focused on investing and preserving capital of my investors. 62 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: And ultimately I decided to wind it down. UM, I 63 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: was going to take a year off. But essentially during 64 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: that year I discovered blockchain and discovered etherium, starting with 65 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: bitcoin obviously, UM. And then and then I thought, why 66 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: don't we do this all again? UM? I mean when 67 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: I say do this all again, I mean, why don't 68 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: we just reinvent the financial infrastructure so that we can 69 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: lower these barriers to entry and automate all of these 70 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: processes and and make it make finance much more easily 71 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: available to people who want to um, who who are 72 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: talented and and aspiring, and who want to be able 73 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: to do things without the large headwinds. Yeah, that's that's awesome. UM. 74 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: It's amazing to think that thirty million is not enough 75 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: to start a fund, especially when you're saying that you're 76 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: really being gobbled up or swallowed up by the fees 77 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: and admin costs. Yeah, it's insane. I mean it's Anyone 78 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: who's raised that kind of money before for the first 79 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: time without a track record knows how difficult it is. Yeah. 80 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: What what year was that? That was in two thousand 81 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: and fourteen? Okay, okay, so even when you had a 82 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: good market behind you, Yeah, so it wasn't about the market. 83 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: It was really about the not about the performance of 84 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: the market. It was about the market overall, or the 85 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: regulations and admin costs that are involved with ut Yeah, 86 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: it was just you know, I mean, if you want 87 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: a little, you know, peek into what my my kind 88 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: of average day look like. It was dealing with UM. Okay, 89 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: So starting with the end of a trading day, you know, 90 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: I'd have to fill in four different types of spreadsheets. 91 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: Each of them had forty different columns reporting um, forty 92 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: different bits of information on each trade that I had done. 93 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: One spreadsheet for equities, one spreadsheet for FX or currency trades, 94 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: one spreadsheet for bonds, once one spreadsheet UM for cash management, 95 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: and report that into the fund administrator, who's then receiving 96 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: the counterparties, you know, reporting on the other side, who 97 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: checks them. Sends a bunch of emails the next day 98 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: saying this trade doesn't match, that trade doesn't match this 99 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 1: Your fourth decimal place doesn't match his fourth decimal place. 100 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: Some one of you is wrong. We've got to settle 101 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: this before we can settle the trade. That's one part 102 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: of it. Then there was like you know p n 103 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: L spreadsheets where you know, at the end of the day, 104 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: I have my piano calculation of fund administrator has their 105 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: calculation almost never matched. They were always slightly off. Have 106 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: software for that? Oh yeah, you have software, but I 107 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: mean you have software that costs a hundred thousand dollars 108 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: a year to run. Again, that's back down to the 109 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, to the barriers. How much do you want 110 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: to pay to run and operate your fund? You know, 111 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: when you when you're thirty million dollar fund and you're 112 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: charging what one per cent and feest you've got a manager. 113 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: You know, you've got a manager. Operating costs become you know, 114 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: quite crucial where you spend them, right right? Yeah, So 115 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: even those p and and monitoring tools are not perfect. 116 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: You know, they require they still require a lot of 117 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: manual input. Right. Um, So those are the costly layers there, 118 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: um that you saw. Now, so so you saw a 119 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: theorym and then you figured there's some way that that 120 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: that compliance piece, that those layers could be compressed down 121 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: using the blockchain. Yeah, well, I mean what what what 122 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: ethereum really gave us was well what let's let's take 123 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: a step back. What Bitcoin gave us was a way 124 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: too was an accounting system. Right, an accounting system which 125 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: was UM a way to transfer money from A to 126 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: B with no counterparty, no sorry, no into between two counterparties, 127 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: with no intermediary in the middle, in a completely transferse way. 128 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: Then you had Etherium, which took that same accounting methodology 129 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: and secure secure accounting methodology and embedded an entire coding 130 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: language on top of that, giving you something that looks 131 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: like you know, they used to call it a computer. 132 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: I think you know when you can code, when you 133 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: can code UM rules and conditions onto how transactions can 134 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: be spent, and when you know what you can and 135 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: can't do. This becomes a very powerful tool in finance 136 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: because it basically solves all This is essentially what the 137 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: operational layers are there for, right, to make sure that 138 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: fund managers don't UM run off with your money in 139 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: basil your money, steal your money and run away to 140 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,559 Speaker 1: spend is in a way that wasn't that they weren't 141 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: permission to UM as per the kind of advertisement or 142 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: or fun perspective perspective of that product. UM. And we 143 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: see that. You know, it's happened time and time and 144 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: again in history, whether it's rogue traders at ubs or 145 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: whether it's a model for whether it's whatever. You know, 146 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: the system constantly fails people. People people managed to get 147 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: away with things, spending investors money or savers money in 148 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: a way that they were not permission to do. Yet 149 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: we keep adding these layers of compliance and layers of 150 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: operations to check and double check and triple check. But 151 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: the problem with the traditional financial system is that it's 152 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: so untrained, it's so it lacks transparency. There are so 153 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: many layers of technology. There are so many there's such 154 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: a lack of technology actually, and you know, tracing a 155 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: trade is just like it's a very difficult process. So 156 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: so it's easier to get away with things because there 157 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: wasn't you know, there wasn't a good trace trace ability, 158 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: and there's so many part is in the middle, you 159 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: never know where something is. Um So blockchain etherium gives 160 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: you this transparency, accountability and a way to kind of 161 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: embed rules sets within smart contracts and enforce them. The 162 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: blockchain can enforce them, so all of a sudden you 163 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: can do away with these operations, compliance teams, um you know, 164 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: accounting teams, etcetera, etcetera, because you have an immediate almost 165 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: immediate settlement time. You have a completely transparent settlement system. 166 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: You know when a trade fails and why it fails. 167 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: You can see where everything is at any time. You 168 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: can see in you know, we will get to Mala 169 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: in a second, I'm guessing, but you can see, you 170 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: can you can predefine rules by which people can do 171 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: things or can't do things um. And there's absolutely no 172 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: way those rules can be broken because they're embedded in 173 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: a smart contract. So when you talk about the settlement 174 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: times in the traditional stocks, I mean there's so many 175 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: different people in the middle, right, So from the from 176 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: the company issuing it all way down to the individual 177 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: maybe retail investor or trader who owns that stock or 178 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: thinks they own that stock. There could be what five 179 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: six different people in between, and then when someone trades 180 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: that stock or buys your shells at stock, then it 181 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: has to get settled all the way through the line. 182 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: Is that what you're talking about? Yeah? Absolutely, you know 183 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: you need exactly you need to transfer ownership um And 184 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: believe it or not, you know, ownership in the traditional 185 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: world of finances is literally a bit of paper, a 186 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: legal document that tells you yes, so and so owns this, 187 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: we need to transfer, you know, the ownership of this 188 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: asset to the new person. And this is it's it's 189 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: a lengthy process, so it takes time, it takes verification, 190 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: it takes people, it takes it takes a lot of 191 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: manpower as it stands today, and manpower costs money. So 192 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: it adds costs layers of costs. So some of that 193 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: also has to do with like the custody, right, So 194 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: then um, just like with what what the blockchain has 195 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: enabled us to do is to take custody of the 196 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: asset um not i and all these intermediaries to keep 197 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: keep their ledgers up to date or sort of speak 198 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: absolutely yeah. Yeah, But actually this is very interesting point 199 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: that you bring up because so um, over the years, 200 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: it's become a regulatory requirement that every hedge funder asset 201 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: manager has a fund administrator and a legal custodian. And 202 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: the reason that that those rules have been enforced by 203 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: law are that it's it's a way of ensuring that 204 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: the fund manager can't just run away with the assets 205 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: and spend them on porsches and private jets and whatever, 206 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: but they actually have to spend the funds they you know, 207 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: investors are trusting them with in the within the within 208 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: the kind of rule sets that have been defined to 209 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: the investor. UM. When you talk about the world of blockchain, 210 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: this rule actually just becomes a nuisance, right because investors 211 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: always are the the the owner of their own funds, 212 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: because they're always holding custody or at least the world 213 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: defy decentralized finance is such that investors should always have 214 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: custody of their own assets if they want it. Um. 215 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: And so this rule about having a custodian and a 216 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: fund administrator suddenly becomes quite interesting to to reassess because, um, 217 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: everything is so transparent and everything is pre defined in code. 218 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: So why would you need, you know, why would you 219 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: need to replicate this role when it's arguably more efficient 220 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: and potentially in future more secure than having uh kind 221 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: of manual intermediary in the middle. Right. So to set 222 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: the stage, then, so the big problem that you ran 223 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: into and that everybody is facing is massive administrative cost 224 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: because of the way that custody is happening and settlement 225 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: has to happen through multiple people, and so the compliance 226 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: to keep up with that UM is just just too 227 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: burdensome and just to to cost too costly. Absolutely, and 228 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: and you know, compliance requirements are only going in one 229 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: direction because every years, there's every two or three years 230 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: as another scandal, there's another you know, financial meltdown, and 231 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: then regulators deal with it by slapping on more and 232 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: more rules and more and more restrictions. And in order 233 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: to you know, to to meet those reporting requirements and 234 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: to meet those regulations and rules, you know, funds essentially 235 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: just get slapped with more and more costs. So it's 236 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: it's a yeah, it's a difficult environment for funds. And 237 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: what you end up seeing is instead of the biggest, 238 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: instead of the best fund managers doing best, doing well, 239 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: what you end up seeing is it's the big ones 240 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: getting bigger and the small ones getting smaller because the cost, 241 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: because of the cost to do the administration. Exactly, you 242 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: need the scale to be able to suck up the administration. 243 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: It was a great I wish I could remember the source, 244 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: but there was a great article um a couple of 245 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: years ago. I think it's said something like of the 246 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: world's assets invested in hedge funds are invested in five 247 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: largest hedge funds. Yeah, one about that. We see that 248 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: all throughout different areas in the world. For example, in 249 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: e commerce, right, so you have am on that's continued 250 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: to grow bigger and bigger and bigger, and then regulations 251 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: have been constantly put into place for small businesses to 252 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: keep up with, like local tax jurisdictions for example. UM, 253 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: and so it's it's too burdensome for those small entrepreneurs, 254 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: those small sites to keep up with those regulations. And 255 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: so Amazon of course has the scale and they can 256 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: do that. So UM and we can see that just 257 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: play out over and over and over, and it's it's 258 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: kind of kind of what you're saying, is it's kind 259 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: of like, on one hand, Um, the regulations continue to 260 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: build up and continue to make it harder and harder 261 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: and harder. But at the same time, we're on a 262 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: system that's been around for eighty years or I don't know, 263 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: sixty seventy years and it hasn't really changed. Is that 264 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: kind of what what you see? Absolutely? And and the 265 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: thing is, you know, eighty years ago we didn't have 266 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: very exciting technology. Today we do, and UM and probably 267 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: you know we've had exciting technology for the last couple 268 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: of decades as well. But the financial system, so UM, 269 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's so fragile right now because we've 270 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: just slapped layers and layers and layers of um of 271 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: old technology on top of our new technology on top 272 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: of old technology for so many years that the technology 273 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: stack that they're dealing with such a mess in banks 274 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: and financial institutions. So to to try and you know, 275 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: make any proper use cases or to use blockchain or 276 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: new technology to its food potential, it's almost impossible if 277 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: you're a large incumbent. And I think the people that 278 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: are doing the really exciting stuff now are the people 279 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: that can really start from fresh, take all the technology 280 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: that's available to us today, and reinvent things from scratch. 281 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: You I want to ask you, um how hard that's 282 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: going to be because of the incumbents that are there 283 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: on the regulations. But before we get to that, UM, 284 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: let's jump back to UM. Let's just jump back now 285 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: to melon. So you've seen these problems, You've you've had 286 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: to deal with this in real life, the burdensome costs 287 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: and compliance and labor and so forth, and so UM 288 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: using this new technology of bitcoin, etherory and blockchain, UM, 289 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: you think you found a better way? Absolutely? I mean, 290 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: we are. It's still very early days in terms of 291 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: where the whole space is UM, but I think you know. 292 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: In February nineteen this year, we went we went to 293 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: main net with version of one of Melon, and Melon 294 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: enables you to As of today, you can set up 295 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: a crypto fund within a few minutes. You can define UM. 296 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: You can pre define things like who is allowed to 297 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: invest UM, where to your asset universe, which trade, which 298 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: exchanges are you allowed to trade with? Which, what's your 299 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: maximum number of positions, what's your maximum position size? All 300 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: the kind of things that you can define in a 301 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: fund perspective which is enforced by financial intermediaries. We can 302 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: start to define those by smart contract code in a 303 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: customizable way. I can customize my fund with its rules 304 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 1: and its parameters. I can select my fees, my my 305 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: management and my performance fees, and I can deploy this 306 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: fund to the blockchain. It takes the form off its 307 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: token and people can invest. The smart contract takes care 308 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: of the accounting, the share creation, the fund administration, the risk, 309 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: the risk management, everything operational about the fund except the 310 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: except the investing, which is done by the manager is 311 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: taken care of, which just frees up the manager to 312 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: focus purely on investing. Now, UM, that's huge when you 313 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: think that. You know, my fund took six months to launch. UM, 314 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: they can take up to twelve months to launch. And 315 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: the costs involved before you even launch are north of 316 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: a thousand dollars in most cases, and the running costs 317 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: of a fund are at least that per year. So 318 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, we've reduced that to process to a few 319 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: minutes and um less than a hundred bucks. And you can, yeah, 320 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: and you can, and you can start to see. You know, 321 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: the user experience is not as easy as UM. You 322 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: know we'd like it to be, but that's largely because 323 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: of other developments that need to happen. There is the 324 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: user experience on setting up a traditional fund. It's true, 325 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: that's true. But you know, blockchain is not perfect. And 326 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to sit here and say as of 327 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: today it's perfect. But UM, if we keep if we 328 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: keep improving, or if we keep developing things in the 329 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: way at the speed that have they have developed in 330 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: the last three years in the blockchain world, I think 331 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: that three years from now we'll be looking at a 332 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: system which is massively, massively better experience than the traditional 333 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: experience of fun management. Now when you say a fund um, uh, 334 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: there's there's a couple different things. I mean. Originally I 335 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: was thinking MELON was like helping someone set up like 336 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: an index fund, which means I would say, you know, 337 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: for simplicity sake, I have ten different assets in there 338 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: at at different ratios, and um, someone could buy into 339 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: that index fund. UM. But I think now you're talking 340 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: about setting up a fund where I could raise however 341 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: much money and then go invest that kind of whatever. 342 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: My thesis is, Yeah, I mean, and I use the 343 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: word I default to the word fun because it seems 344 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: to be a word that most people can relate to. 345 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: But actually you can use melon to set up any 346 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: kind of investment vehicle. It can be an e t F, 347 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: It can be a hedge fund, it can be a 348 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: VC fund, it can be whatever you want. It can 349 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: be a dow UM. There's actually no limitations on because 350 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: each each investment vehicle is customizable. But you know, what 351 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: we give is and what we hope is that one day, 352 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: you know, five years from now, maybe any kind of 353 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: investment vehicle is doable on melon um all the rule sets, 354 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: all the risk management rule sets. You can imagine are 355 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: available because obviously there's a limit finite amount right now 356 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: based on the fact that we're a small team UM 357 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: and we're only two three years into the project. So 358 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: um but you know, it's all open source, it's all 359 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: code that's there for anyone to see, anyone can participate, 360 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: anyone can um submit proposals or code, and it's you know, 361 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: it's easily integratable. So there's absolutely no reason why it 362 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: couldn't be used as the future financial infrastructure for all 363 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: asset management. And so how how would someone use that now? 364 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: I know, for example, we talked about um ash that's 365 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: building on top of that, and they're doing some sort 366 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: of like gamified UM fund fund investing type platform. So 367 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: if I was a builder, I would want to build 368 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 1: on Melon and I could come build my fund. I mean, 369 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: I guess you're saying like the options are endless, or 370 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: like I would set up like my own marks index 371 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: fund or um or I could say, hey, this is 372 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: just give me just raise a million dollars and I'm 373 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: just gonna go invest it. However, I see fit, I 374 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: mean any option that I want. So Melan just kind 375 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: of takes care of the compliance piece of that. So 376 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: You can think of Melon as the infrastructure, right, the 377 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: infrastructure which gives you the tool kit to build whatever 378 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: you want to build. In the asset management space, you 379 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: can you can set up a vehicle. This vehicle can 380 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: be invested in. You can limit the number of investors, 381 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: you can keep it unlimited, you can you can select. 382 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: It gives you all the tools that you need to 383 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: to customize whatever you want to do. Now, we haven't 384 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: got all the bits there, but we have a full 385 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: feature set and we've delivered everything, all the features we promise, 386 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: and we're now looking towards the future to what else. 387 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: You know, what are the next features that people want 388 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,239 Speaker 1: to see? Ashes building a use kick that we never 389 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: actually imagined on Alan and I just came along UM 390 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: I think it was a year and a half ago, 391 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: and they said, oh, we love what you guys are doing. 392 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: We uh, we're really good with UX and you I 393 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: and UM. We want to build a fun use case 394 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: on Melon and we want to kind of do something 395 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: like a Battle of the fund managers on Melon where 396 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 1: people can just challenge one another to short or long 397 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: term you know manager competitions and UM and you know 398 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: there's a there's sort of sort of prize pool which 399 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: gets allocated to the winner, and it's all very competitive 400 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: and there's a very playful there's a very playful element 401 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: to it. UM. I have actually envisioned the use case 402 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: of Melon initially to be much more serious because I 403 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: come from the traditional world of finance. But I'm very 404 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: open to anything that anyone wants to build on Melon 405 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: because ultimately, it's all the same infrastructure and it's all 406 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: the same you know, it's all the same tools. And 407 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: the more people that are building on Melon, the better, 408 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: because that's when we're going to get the best features, 409 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: the best functionality, the best minds on it, the best 410 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: the you know, the more the more developers that work 411 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: on it, the more secure it is. UM. So, so 412 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: we're very open to working with any teams that want 413 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: to build on Melon to build anything asset management related. Now. 414 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: UM basically, what you're trying to do is make it 415 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: much easier to build a fund in the financial space, 416 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: and we talk about like compressing those layers, the costly layers, 417 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: taking out some of that admin. A lot of that 418 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: is there because of laws regulation. UM there's a lot 419 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: of people that make money from that as well, So 420 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: it seems like quite a lot of people are going 421 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: to be disrupted through this process. So, UM, are are 422 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: the regulators going to allow this to happen or what's that? 423 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: What's that battle going to look like? Yeah? You know 424 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: this is this is I mean, this is the this 425 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: is a great question. UM. Who knows? Um? You know 426 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: you you see there was a report. I'm just trying 427 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: to put it up now so i can give you 428 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: the title. It's just shocking. But you know, the center 429 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: of fund administration in the world is Luxembourg, as you 430 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: probably know, and there was a report UM published by 431 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: Deloitte this week or maybe it was last week. The 432 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: title is quite striking. It's called um blockchain technology has 433 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: the potential to wipe Luxembourg off the map something along 434 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: those lines. And you know that's because Luxembourg, basically, I 435 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: think most of it's g d p IS is made 436 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: from servicing the fund market, the funds asset managers. So UM, 437 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: so you know people are signed it. We've we've been 438 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: saying this for three years. I was amazed at this 439 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: report came out now, but you know this is this 440 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: has been our belief all along. Our regulator is going 441 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: to accept it. You know, it depends, um that some 442 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: are more open to others. Um. If you're Luxembourg, probably not, frankly, 443 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: but if you're you know, if you're a jurisdiction that 444 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: that embraces new technology doesn't have a lot going for 445 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: you in the asset management space to start with, or 446 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: in the finance industry, Hey, you may want to make 447 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: a name for yourself by being open minded and embracing 448 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: this kind of technology. Um. But in general we're seeing 449 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: mixed you know, mixed um, mixed reactions on that. And 450 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: in general, the law is the law at the moment 451 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: for most of the kind of financial centers where you 452 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: do need these financial intermediaries and so well, you know, 453 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: we'll either see creative technological solutions that come come up 454 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: that sort of build the technology in a way where um, 455 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, where where the law you know, there's no 456 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: kind of strict definition on how the law can be interpreted, 457 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: or you'll see the technology being built in a way 458 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: that you know, can fit into the existing law. I 459 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: hope it's the innovative way we see because there's absolutely 460 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: no point in in in there's no upside in this 461 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: technology if you have to fit it into the regulatory box. Frankly, UM, 462 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: you think regulators should be open to people experimenting and 463 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: to seeing what can happen. And I think ultimately it's 464 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: better for UM, it's better for you know, sandbox environments 465 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: are very good, but it's better to it's better to 466 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: the potential. The potential of what this technology can do 467 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: for the fund administer, just for for the fund industry 468 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: is huge, yea. And I think it's largely you know, 469 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: the focus seems to be people seem to be getting 470 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: stuck on K y C A m L A lot. 471 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: And I think, yes, maybe you could argue that, uh, 472 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: you know, depending on which angle you're looking at, it 473 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: could be a disadvantage from a regular from a regulator's perspective. 474 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: But the flip side, I mean the advantages that get ignored, 475 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: you know, risk management, control, transparency, reporting possibilities, UM, you know, 476 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: the fact that the investors can keep custody of their assets, 477 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: that the fact that UM, you're somehow protected from a 478 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: market downturn in the way that you weren't during Lehman 479 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: for example. So UM, I think that there's a large 480 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: educational role that needs to be played there. I think 481 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: that sandboxes are good, you know, you know, in increasing 482 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: usage in a sort of controlled environment to prove your 483 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: use case and then going you know, kind of mega 484 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: big with it. It's always a good way to do things. UM. 485 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: But you know who knows? Yeah? Now, currently are you 486 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: only doing it on digital assets like the digital assets are? 487 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: Are you? Is it being done on actual securities right now? Oh? No, no, 488 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: we're We're not. We're definitely not able to interact with 489 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: securities UM in the traditional sense. Um. There's because none 490 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: of them have been none of them have been tokenized. No, No, 491 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: definitely something that might become possible in future. Um. We're 492 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: only able to include e r C twenty tokens UM 493 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: in the Melon protocol UM. And yes, if there are 494 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: e r C twenty tokens that are securities, users can 495 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: make them part of their asset universe. UM. But that's 496 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: that's really a user. It's kind of part of the 497 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: customization process, right. The users select which assets they want 498 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: to trade. If they're UH, if they're able to trade 499 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: securities within their fund, then then they can. If they're 500 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: not able, and they should stick to other types of tokens. Right. 501 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: We are starting to see some people um, like, uh, 502 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: they called wrapping them or you know, creating an arc 503 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: token that represents an actual security. So maybe something like that. 504 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: We actually have wrapped BTC already available in the Monon protocol, 505 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: which is cool. Okay, I'm curious. Um, I'm curious. Coming 506 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: from Switzerland, which is known for having one of the hardest, 507 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: most sound moneys, Um, what you think about bitcoin overall? 508 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: And then and then how like ethery um compares to that? 509 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: I mean, are you are you a hard sound money 510 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: person or do more like the expandable fiat kind of money. 511 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm not originally from Switzerland, but I definitely love this country, 512 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: and I, um, you know, I if I had to 513 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: put my money in any fiat I would I would 514 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: probably pick the swizz frank frankly. Yeah. But as far 515 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: as um crypto goes, I think, um, you know, I do, 516 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: I do see I do see Bitcoin and etherorum in 517 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: a slightly different way. Bitcoin is for me a you know, 518 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: a digital um, a digital money. You can you can 519 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: buy things for you know, you can exchange it, you 520 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: can you can you can use it as a store 521 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: of value. And it's for me, it's um, it's it's 522 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: I see it as a compass with Frank, but maybe 523 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: even more secure and in fact, definitely more secure UM 524 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: and an etherory m. I see it in a slightly 525 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: different way, you know, I see a theorym as um 526 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: more of a platform that will grow with with its 527 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: use cases. I don't really see it so much as 528 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: a as a currency, although it can be used as 529 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: a currency, right, So not direct competition. They're serving different 530 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: purposes and different needs in the market. Yeah, you know, 531 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: the pure noess of bitcoin, the fact that it can 532 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: only be used to hold or exchange, you know, exchange 533 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: for good to deser versus um makes it characteristically more 534 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: like a currency for me, a digital currency, right. And 535 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: then as far as building on Ethereum versus other protocol platforms, 536 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: um have you guys, did you guys do due diligence 537 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: on other platforms? Is it something where like at some 538 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: point you could move it to another platform or are 539 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: you sold on Ethereum's position in the marketplace? And and 540 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: you think Ethereum is kind of the front running winner 541 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: at this point, Yeah, well funny you say that. But 542 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: back when we started in two thousand and of two 543 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, I mean, there weren't that many other platforms today, Yes, UM, 544 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: and we started my ethereum UM. We continue to keep 545 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: an eye on other blockchains that are emerging in the space. 546 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: I still don't think there's anything that offers to you 547 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: what ethereum can offer. UM. Having said that, UM, there's 548 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: there seems to be a lot of blockchain new block 549 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: newer block chains that are going to main net soon 550 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: ish and UM, and you know, we plan to research 551 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: them and and we've definitely researched. We've definitely you know, 552 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: started looking at things like the Polka Dot network and 553 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: into as we think about scalability and interoperability. UM. But 554 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, ethereum two points around the corner two and 555 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: we're excited about that. And it's just a matter of 556 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,959 Speaker 1: keeping in touch with what's happening in this space and 557 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: making sure that UM, you know, we're we're up to 558 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: date and we're ready to to make a necessary amendments. However, 559 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: as of today, most of the decentralized finance, in fact, 560 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: all of the decentralized finance applications are on ethereum, and 561 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: so moving away from ethereum would be silly at this stage. Yeah, UM, 562 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: for the decentralized finance space. It's an area that that 563 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: that I think is just fascinating. I mean, I love 564 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: the decentralizing everything. Um. Do you see that as kind 565 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: of being like the main use case right now or 566 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: the primary use case, um of what of what we're 567 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: doing with this technology? Yeah? I do, I really. I 568 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: mean I'm biased obviously because of my background, but I 569 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: think that I think that, um, you know, the industry, 570 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: the only industry that hadn't been disrupted by technology, in 571 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: my opinion, was was financial services um um. And finally 572 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: it's happening. You know. I think etherium gives us the 573 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: possibility to to to finally get rid of a lot 574 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: of the fat in the financial industry and do it 575 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: in a different and better way. UM. So I'm really 576 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: excited about that. Yeah. Now let's just jump into the 577 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: next thing. Now. What I what I find is really 578 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: interesting is how talking about how I just mentioned how 579 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: I love everything becoming decentralized, Um, you would actually built 580 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: melon and now have launched it in a more decentralized 581 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: manner where you've kind of I think, created like a 582 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: doubt decentralized organization and kind of giving it back to 583 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: the community. Can you talk about that a little bit. Yeah, 584 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: so we yeah, so we always promised that at the 585 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: end of the two years, when we completed our roadmap, 586 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: we would um, you know, we would sort of let 587 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: Melon out into the wild, so to say. So, we 588 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: to the main net UM and we I wanted to 589 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: make a point of giving up any control over the 590 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: protocol UM, so we we handed it over to decentralized 591 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: kind of UM government system, which we call the Melon Council, 592 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: which is composed of a group of technical users and 593 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: UM user representatives and it's running currently on arragon os 594 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: UM software. So so we did that UM and yeah, 595 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: it's completely you know, we we have a seat on 596 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: the council. UM. We're definitely consulted when the decisions have 597 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: to be made, but we have no more than one 598 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: vote on the council. So and and over time I 599 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: would expect that to you know, of as the council grows, 600 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: i'd expect you know, our our influence and influence just 601 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: continues to diminished. But what does that look like? So, 602 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you've given it up to the to the community. Uh, 603 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: you're still taking a seat on there. So now it's 604 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 1: like up to the community to vote on the direction 605 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: that it goes and new features and stuff, but who 606 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: actually will manage it and run it or or or 607 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: develop on it. So UM, so there's a few, there's 608 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 1: a couple of different parts, so the council. So let 609 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: me take a step back, UM in order to use 610 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: the Malon protocol, so we have we have a token. 611 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: Uh we there is a MELON token that exists which 612 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: basically is a usage token and is basically consumed as 613 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: a kind of asset management gas whenever anyone is interacting 614 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: with certain functions in the system. When the ecosystem UM, 615 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: the tokens are are basically burnt once they've been spent. 616 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: On the flip side of that, there's an annual amount 617 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: of tokens which are created by the network and these 618 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: go towards future maintainers and developers of the network, and 619 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 1: they are allocated, uh allocated or burned by the TAO 620 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 1: as per the needs of the network. So essentially UM, 621 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: the token holders and the users are somehow aligned by 622 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: the token o mix. So users are incentivized to help 623 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: grow the network because as usage goes up on the network. 624 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: In theory UM, this should be linked to the token 625 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: value and the future maintainers and developers are also incentivized 626 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: because as they develop cool new features and maintain the 627 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: software effectively. Also, users go up on the network and 628 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: they're earning in this kind of token UM. And and 629 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: then the one kind of stakeholder in the ecosystem that 630 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: is not represented anywhere is the user right because the 631 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: user UM just wants to use a secure protocol. They 632 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: don't really care are about the token. And so when 633 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: we designed our governance, we said, like, you know, how 634 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: can we design a governance system that represents the stakeholder 635 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: that is underrepresented in our ecosystem? And so we said, okay, 636 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: if we were users, we would want to know that 637 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: people looking after this UM software are technically competent or 638 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: user representative. And so that's exactly how we designed the 639 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: Melon Council in the dow around it UM. So basically, 640 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: anyone who joins the Melon Council has to prove that 641 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: they're somehow technically competent in order to make decisions around 642 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: upgrades or UM any kind of protocol related decisions. And 643 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,800 Speaker 1: on the flip side of that, UM, if you're a 644 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: user of the network and you can prove that you're 645 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 1: a user of the network and you're you're you're sort 646 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: of elected by the other users. You can join the 647 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: Melon Council to represent the users, so you can say 648 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 1: to the you can say to the technical council, you're 649 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: spending too much time on security. Actually, we really wanted 650 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: this cool new feature. You know, go ahead, guys, build 651 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: this for us UM and this is this is I'm 652 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: representing the users and this is what we want. So 653 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: it's kind of um, it's kind of a good balance 654 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: between the token economics and the governance. We've basically represented 655 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: and looked after we hope all users and stakeholders in 656 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: the ecosystem interesting. And so you have the new tokens 657 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: being created that can fund it um, you have the 658 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: token holders the users, which are are voting in the 659 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: governance of that, and then you have the funding that 660 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,280 Speaker 1: that can pay for the ongoing development. Just to be clear, 661 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: the token holders do not vote with the token. The 662 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: token holders basically just benefit as used it of the 663 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: network goes out the users. UM, the users consume Melon 664 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: as they use the network, and the yeah, and the 665 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: and the the us the exactly. Yeah. So the reason 666 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: we didn't go for the token holder voting, which is 667 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: on chain government, and it's because it's too easy. In 668 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: our opinion, for our use case, it was too easily gamable. 669 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: So if you had token holders vote voting on sensitive 670 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: things like protocol upgrades, it's very easy to influence or 671 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: manipulate the vote. UM when you when you're not necessarily 672 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: technically qualified to make a vote on an upgrade, right, 673 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: or even worse, we've seen and a lot of protocols 674 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: which have token hole token voting rights, we've seen apathy 675 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: in voters. So uh, you know, something like less than 676 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: fifteen percent of people will typically turn up to vote 677 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: with their tokens. And this um, this is also a 678 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: negative for the protocol because you know, then the swing 679 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: vote or the ability to influence a vote in a 680 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 1: malicious ways is too easy. So we've we decided to Actually, 681 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: if we had on chain governance, this would have made 682 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: the users very vulnerable. You know, you could have had 683 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: a competing network come along and try to maliciously upgrade 684 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: code to something that was insecure, or you could have 685 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: had um, you know, you could have you could have 686 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: had a number of malicious attacks. UM. So what we 687 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: tried to do here is give the give the users 688 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: of the network. Um, We're sorry. Give the token holder 689 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: is something to Tom to look after them, and that 690 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: is the more users on the network, the more the 691 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: token holder benefits because the the buying burn model links 692 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,399 Speaker 1: the value of the token to the usage of the network. UM. 693 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,439 Speaker 1: And what we gave the users is this governance which 694 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: is designed in a technically competent way so that people 695 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: making the decisions around the future of the protocol have 696 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: to be technically competent to do so, or at least 697 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: user rep provably user representative. Yeah. Yeah, we're really interesting. 698 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: It's such a it's it's so fascinated to see these 699 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: different types of governance that are that are coming out 700 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: of this use of blockchain techn apology, you know, theoryum 701 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: and whatnot. So um. You know, it's all very new 702 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: and experimental. The whole idea of decentralized governance. I mean 703 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: maybe Switzerland is the closest example to it, you know, 704 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: given they have a very decentralized government government system here. Um. 705 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: But it's in terms of doing it tech on technology 706 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 1: with tokens and on chain versus off chain. It's still 707 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: very early days and I think time will tell, you know. 708 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: I think a lot of the stuff being done now 709 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 1: is still very experimental. Yeah, yeah, great, Well, UM, I 710 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,280 Speaker 1: wanted to get into more stuff, but we are running 711 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: long on time, so I think we'll have to go 712 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: ahead and wrap it up here. But I'm definitely gonna 713 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 1: be keeping an eye on Melon for others that are interested, UM, 714 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: what are some things that they should be looking for 715 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: where they should be watching. UM. We're very active on 716 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 1: our Twitter channel, so Melon Protocol we are. We try 717 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: to write UM regular blogs on Melon Protocol medium page. UM. 718 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 1: And if you want to chat to us directly, you 719 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: can join our get your channel. There's one for users 720 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: and one for developers UM, and we're always happy to 721 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: take questions on either of those subjects anytime. All right, Mona, 722 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: it's been been fascinating. I love to hear how this 723 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: old old style of finances being disrupted and I'm excited 724 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: to see it happened. And I appreciate you taking the 725 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: time to explain to everybody. Pleasure to be here. Thanks 726 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: about Mark, Take care. Hey. If you like this episode 727 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: of the Market Disruptors podcast, please help us take this 728 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: to the top of the podcast charts. Just please do 729 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: me a favor and rate review. And subscribe. Taking fifteen 730 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: seconds to just leave a quick review goes a long 731 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: way and helping us reach more people and disrupt more markets. 732 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you listening and I'll see you next 733 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: time on the Market Distructors podcast