WEBVTT - Dorothy Stratten 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:07.400 You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:11.160 Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.120 are solely those of the individuals participating in the show 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.560 and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.280 This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.160 for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.560 Hi, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Roscha Pacerrero. 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.519 And I'm Yvette Genteeley, and today we're talking about the 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.840 case of Dorothy Stratton. Y'all might know about this one 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.200 because it was a big story when it happened back 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:41.040 in the eighties. 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:47.199 Yes, I remember this case. Dorothy's case even inspired multiple movies, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.160 including the nineteen eighty one movie Death of a Centerfold 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:54.440 The Dorothy Stratton Story, starring Jamie Lee Curtis, and there 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.560 were also numerous songs that were written about the case, 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.760 including Californication by the Hot Chili Pepper's personal favorite of 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.240 mine and the Best Was Yet to Come by Brian Adams. 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:06.120 Yeah. 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.160 I so remember all those songs. But we also have 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.240 to remember that Dorothy, she was an actress and a 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.920 playboy motto who dealt with abuse at the hands of 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:19.399 her controlling husband, who she was estranged from at the time, 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.880 and sadly, the story ends in her tragic murder. 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:27.760 Yeah, heartbreaking. And today we want to use Dorothy's story 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.959 as a jumping off point to talk about intimate partner 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:36.040 violence and why it's so prevalent. But first our producer 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.280 Trevor is going to take us through today's case. 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.679 After catching the eye of iconic mogul Hugh Hefner, she 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.080 was crowned nineteen eighty Playmate of the Year. 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.440 She never felt that there was any danger in anything 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.960 with Paul Sneyer. He pushed her to marry him. She 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:54.720 I don't think really wanted to. 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.560 She was the meal ticket, but he was afraid that 0:01:58.680 --> 0:01:59.560 he could lose her. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:00.559 She did. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.880 Dorothy Stratton was a twenty year old actress and playboy 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.680 model who was killed by her husband in nineteen eighty 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:12.080 in Los Angeles. Dorothy grew up in Vancouver, British Columbia, 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.160 and while in high school, she met a man named 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:19.320 Paul Snyder. Snyder was a successful promoter for car shows, 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.280 but he soon took to less than legitimate ways to 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:27.040 make money, namely pimping. In the summer of nineteen seventy eight, 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:31.239 Snyder had a professional photographer take nude photos of then 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.639 eighteen year old Dorothy and send them to Playboy for 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.639 the Great Playmate Hunt of nineteen seventy eight. Dorothy was 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.400 chosen as a finalist, and so she and Paul Snyder 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:45.640 moved together to Los Angeles, California. The following year, they 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.120 got married in Las Vegas. At the time, she was 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:53.520 nineteen and he was twenty eight. Dorothy eventually became Playboy's 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.000 Miss August nineteen seventy nine and started to work as 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.919 a Playboy bunny. Hugh Hefner decided that Dorothy should act 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.760 and got her roles in episodes of Fantasy Island and 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:09.639 Buck Rogers. Meanwhile, Snyder became her chauffeur, manager, and acting coach. 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.960 The two reportedly argued daily, often leading to verbal and 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:19.240 physical escalation. Roseanne Cayton, a fellow playmate, warned Dorothy to 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.240 leave Snyder. Hefner also tried to get Dorothy away from Snyder, 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:27.080 calling him quote a hustler and a pimp. In March 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.160 of nineteen eighty, Dorothy landed a role in the film 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.960 They All Laughed, a romantic comedy written and directed by 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:38.760 Peter Bogdanovitch, and then Dorothy began an affair with Bogdanovich 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.600 while filming in New York. She wrote to Snyder asking 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.840 him for more freedom in their marriage, but Snyder called 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.200 her and flew into a rage. And then, when Dorothy 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.200 was on a tour stop in Vancouver, Snyder flew into 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:56.080 town and convinced Dorothy to make nightclub appearances instead of 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:00.240 fulfilling her playboy duties. Snyder then pocketed all the money 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:04.120 she made from the appearances and disappeared. In June of 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.360 nineteen eighty, Dorothy sent Snyder a letter announcing they were separating. 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.440 In response, Snyder emptied their bank account and started an 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:16.000 affair with an old girlfriend. He also sold off Dorothy's 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.200 Playmate of the Year prizes. In July, Snyder obtained a 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:24.359 gun and he camped outside Bogdanovitch's house with the goal 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.440 of confronting Dorothy and the director when they came home, 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.359 But after hours of waiting, he finally gave up and left. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.120 And then on August fourteenth, Dorothy told Snyder she would 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.480 come by his house to give him some settlement money. 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.320 Her business manager had told her she should let her 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.480 lawyer deal with Snyder, but Dorothy refused the advice and 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.160 insisted that she'd deal with him personally, saying quote, I'd 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.960 like to remain his friend. When Dorothy arrived at Snyder's house, 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.719 his roommates had left for the day. The two spent 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.880 some time in the living room before they went back 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:02.200 to the bedroom. About an hour lefe Snyder shot Dorothy, 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.599 and an hour after that he shot himself. The story 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:11.440 was a major tabloid sensation. When interviewed, Hefner said, quote, 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.560 a very sick guy saw his meal ticket and his 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:18.080 connection to power or whatever slipping away, and it was 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.200 that that made him kill her end quote. And So, 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.760 how does the case of Dorothy Stratton reveal a bigger 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:30.320 issue of intimate partner violence and its prevalence in American culture? 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.720 Well, welcome back to Facing Evil. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.440 So the issue of intimate partner abuse, of course, is 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.920 a huge issue that we've talked about many times on 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:50.200 our podcast, and Dorothy Stratton is just one of millions 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:52.919 of people who have dealt with violence at the hands 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:57.640 of a partner. So today we are so honored and 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:02.400 humbled to welcome an amazing expert on this issue and 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:06.720 that is doctor Junkog Cho, and doctor Cho is an 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:11.680 associate professor at Michigan State University's College of Social Science. 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.680 He's published numerous studies and journals on the issues of 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:20.160 intimate partner violence. So doctor Cho, welcome a Komo may 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:21.920 to Facing Evil. 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.599 Thanks for having me. It's my great pleasure. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.000 N thank you so much, doctor Choe for being here. 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.520 We're going to start. First of all, if you could 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.320 tell us how you got into this work, you know, 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.720 and in particularly what brought you to the issue of 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.200 intimate partner violence. 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.520 Yes, I can share some of my stories. So probably 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:50.080 my first memory of witnessing patterner of violence was when 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.920 I was very leader in Korea, so where I came from, 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.640 So probably I was like five years old or six, 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:03.440 and at the time is nineteen sixties or early seventies, so 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.679 it was not that uncommon in Korea at the time, 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:12.760 Like seeing like a drunken, angry man dragging around seeing 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:17.320 me their wives on street and beating them and yelling 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:21.440 at them. So I felt very bad, But I don't 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:26.160 remember like any person actually stepped in to stop it. 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:31.760 Either they were afraid of being harassed themselves or I 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.040 don't know. But that's rebot the memory, but a little 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.160 more reasten to one is like them. A couple of 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:43.120 my friends, female friends from my college, shared with me 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.640 their experiences of their like hit by their partners or 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:53.240 actually their husbands. So they are highly educated and intelligent 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.120 and very capable, but stir they were victimized. So I 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.600 was very perplexed and I wanted to know more. So 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.960 it's about the same time I plan to go into 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.160 a PhD program in the social work, so it's kind 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.960 of the good match for me to be interested in 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.480 the topic. And I wrote my destination about it. 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.360 Wow, so it was very personal to you, starting from 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.120 the time you were a child and then as you 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:23.160 started to grow up. 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:24.520 Yes, yes it is. 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.800 I'm thankful for you because I've never had the opportunity 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.920 to speak to an expert on intimate partner violence or 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:39.000 expert of any kind on abuse. And I know that 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.360 intimate partner violence doesn't only happen between couples, right like 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.080 it happens whether you know a parent is abusing a 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:53.360 child or even adults you know sadly abusing their elderly parents. 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.680 But can you tell us a little bit more like 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:01.000 how diverse this issue really is like it's not you know, 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.120 between a man and a woman, right. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.360 Right, right, So you are correct when you mentioned like 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.360 a lot of different types of violence happening between family 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:14.080 members as well as like the caregivers, even for like 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:19.040 elderly abuse, or even children can be abused or militreated 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:24.360 by their teachers like that. So it's very diverse, and 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:29.600 the many research consistently shows that itp is observed from 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:34.520 every group, every community, every place of imaginable so legardilis 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:39.720 of gender or sexual orientation or age or race and 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:45.000 ethnicity and community types. Also, like the pattern of virons 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:49.360 doesn't happen only against women, so men also serve from 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:54.360 pattern of virons. But the numbers and the characteristics of 0:09:54.600 --> 0:10:00.120 violence experience are somewhat different between men and women. So 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:04.360 for instance, like the Russia, you just mentioned a lot 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:08.880 of different forms of violence including physical abuse, emotional abuse 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:17.200 or psychological aggression or manuperation, controlling behaviors, obsessively limiting where 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.440 you are and whom to talk to, and of course 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.640 sexual assault and ray. All different types of violence are 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:29.160 out there, and among those types of violence, women are 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:35.040 deported more like sexual assault and severe revels of physical 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:40.120 violence for instance, like beating up or like the lipiditid 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:47.240 hit by weapons like that, and sexual assault is predominantly 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:52.920 against women. Men deported a little bit comparable number and 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:58.040 percentages of psychological aggressions, so it can be called emotional 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:03.520 abuse or manuperation. Controlling behaviors, they seem to be comparitive 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:09.520 between men and women. And one significant difference between men 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:15.240 and women is the negative consequences of virns on their health. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:22.720 So women reported way severe levels of injury like broken 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:28.360 bones or fracture or heavy bruises compared to men. So 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.400 they are like certain differences between men and women. But 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:36.840 still we cannot argue against that. So they are out. 0:11:36.640 --> 0:12:02.520 There right, can't discount it, right, So you know another question, 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.280 doctor Choe, I mean, what are the most common stories 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:11.360 that you hear about you know, for instance, we are 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.760 talking about Dorothy Stratton who was a very famous model, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:17.319 you know, playboo model in. 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:23.360 The eighties and she was killed by her controlling, abusive husband. 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:31.240 Do you think there's a difference between fame and power money. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.120 What are the most common stories that you hear about 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:36.480 these behaviors? 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:41.040 Yeah, I believe there's a hot casion to answer, because 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:45.240 we're just discuss how diverse I PV is, so like 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:50.240 picking a very common story among all those diversities hot cusion. 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.640 But at this time we can share like a couple 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:59.360 of different types of stories that we consistently watch. So 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:03.880 we're talking about server groups of all different types of experience. 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:09.320 So like that, there are many scholars try hard to 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:13.520 create some manager number of server groups. Two or three 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:18.400 types of old IPD based on their similarities. So one 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:24.040 of them was created by doctor Johnson. I believe he 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:29.040 was a sociology professor at Penn State. So he created 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:33.840 like three different types of pattern of violence. First one 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.559 is probably similar to the case you just lifered. He 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:42.800 called it as a domestic terrorism. So one partner having 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:48.199 an more power and resources compared to other partner, and 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:53.320 they use their enormous advantage in terms of power to 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:59.360 control another partner, including violence. So he observed like that 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:05.480 kind of virons predominantly committed by men against the women 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:11.360 I see. So about according to his observation, about fifteen 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:16.560 to twenty percent of patterner virolens maybe classified into that 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.640 form of domestic terrorism. Okay, okay, that might be one 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.520 story may be very close to the case we are 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:28.800 talking about today. Yeah. Another form is he called it 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.120 like a situational partner violence or situational couple of violence. 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:38.920 So in terms of severity or frequency or consequences, it's 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:43.760 a reader. Let's a severe compared to domestic terrorism, which 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:48.680 is discussed, So let's severe levels of physical violence, like 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.200 so instead of like a using knife or weapon, or beating, 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:57.640 like pushing like it's frequently used, or like throwing a 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:03.640 pillow against your partner over some disagreement or dispute or 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:04.920 some conflict. 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:05.320 Less severe. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:11.920 So men and women can use such violence occasionally, not frequently. 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.120 So that's why it's called the situational. So if they 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:22.000 are intoxicated or under like the some heavy stress from 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:27.040 like childcare or like employment or COVID, then under the 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:31.440 high pressure, they might rely on violence to reserve or 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:37.080 express their discomfort or frustration. So they're called a situation 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.920 a couple of violence. So in terms of a number, 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.280 about half or more of a pattern of violence may 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.840 be built as a dead type, so embolving lesser severe 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.360 violence of still very serious in terms of consequences, but 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:58.200 men and women may evolve in a little pretty even percentages. 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:04.800 And another line, the type of violence conjured by doctor 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:10.560 Johnson is called the violent resistance, which means like involving 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:15.440 self defense. So, for instance, police was called into the 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:19.960 domestic violence scene and they found both partners embolved in 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.520 some kind of physical confrontation and use of violence, so 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.200 they arrested the both of them. But later on they 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:32.760 found actually one partner reacted against like the violence physical 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:37.280 force p pictured by another partner. But police didn't have 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:42.200 much time to tell difference between whomever like initiate the 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:47.680 violence and who defend themselves against the violence. So they 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:51.520 are the types of violence, and in terms of a number, 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:56.640 about twenty percent twenty five percent or partner violence probably 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:00.960 classify the them. But still Legardi I saw forms of 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:05.320 pattern of vironce condgative consequences in terms of health and 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:11.440 social function onto survivors or victims very severe, very serious. 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.280 So we have to treat all forms of patternal violence 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:15.640 very seriously. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:20.479 Yeah, it's all trauma, right, like it's yeah, it's all trauma, yeah, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.760 in whatever form. Speaking along those lines with psychology, this 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:29.200 is something it's interesting, right, Like I think hurt people. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.600 Hurt people, right, and that's the term you know we've 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.720 been told and hear it facing evil or much more 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.800 about the like how do you heal from that? And 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.960 like I thankfully have never repeated any of the abuse 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:43.880 that has been done to me. You know, our mom 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.960 never repeated it to us. And you know, but that 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.800 didn't happen for my dad in particular, or I don't 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.040 know what Dorothy Stratton's a strange husband, what he went 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.240 through before he you know, did horrible things to Dorothy 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:57.800 or anyone. 0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:59.960 But why do you. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:05.280 Think sociologically or psychologically, like why do these people feel 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:09.240 the need these abusers, like why do they need to control, 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:11.120 manipulate or. 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.880 Harm these people that they love? 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.760 Like I know again, I'm sure it's a wide variety 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:23.200 of answers, But from a scientific standpoint, what do you think, If. 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.480 I can be overly simplistic, then the answer is because 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.600 they can, right, they can use violence without any restriction 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:36.199 either like their partner being abused didn't have much power 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.440 then them, so they feel free to do whatever they 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:44.960 want and society or neighbors or even authorities didn't see 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.639 them as a serious right or even like use some 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.040 form of violence and conceive that as some kind of 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:56.680 expression of love or another form of some loving relationship, 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.960 different but private matter, and we don't have it to 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.880 step in. So because of such like a little bit 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.200 leniency in terms of social acceptance of a violence. Also 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:14.200 like the victim shaming culture. So when we are in pain, 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.720 then it's natural for us to talk to somebody to 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:22.440 feel better and to seek for some health. And but 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.320 if I share something, then what if my friend or 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.600 parents or teachers say no, no, no, no, so what did 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.160 you do and where are you there? And if they 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:37.520 have a repeated experience like that, then we internalize the 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:42.000 process of shaming as if we actually embolve in very 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:47.600 shame for activity, so we just never sick help ever. Again, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:54.680 so because of such a social environment, perpetrator may feel free. Wow, 0:19:55.000 --> 0:20:00.919 that's like one interpretation and explanation. Another one is like 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:06.400 like a feminist take is like power and control mechanism 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.159 what they call. So it's very similar to again the 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.920 case we are talking about. So if one partner have 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:19.400 enormous fame and power not comparably to the other partner, 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:24.440 then this partner used their power to control another partner's 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:31.240 behavior perception for their gain, to their advantage. Yeah, Historically, 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.120 like a man seemed to progest much more power compared 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.600 to women. So that's why, like the most of very 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.919 severe virons actually porpetraed by men because they had a 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:49.320 more power over women. Right. At the same time, we 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:54.320 cannot ignore like the presence of other types of partner violence. 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.600 Men also suffer the from a partner violence. And some 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:04.119 famous like a male egg actually sexually assorted another malectoral 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:09.680 or actors allegedly, So it can happen to whatever a relationship, 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.520 not only for men and women or a heterosexual or 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.960 same sex. It can happen there. Then probably like power 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.080 and control can be or cannot be applied. 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.240 I feel like this is a therapy session, doctor Joe, 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.520 I love it. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.840 Another theory may be based on like the some gruel 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:35.040 people and they don't have like a good conflicted resolution skills, right, 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:38.600 So conflict isn't natural, so it can happen between any 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:42.560 patterns because we are different from each other. But some 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.000 persons or some group people do not have a good 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:51.840 exposure to the healthy way of conflicted resolution. So either 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.879 they were raised in very violent community, then the only 0:21:56.480 --> 0:22:01.880 bio option for them to achieve something is use of violence. Right, 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.200 and when they observe the dead like kind of gang affiliation, 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.680 like some motivation for youth in the public community as 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:14.399 a very few way to go up to the like 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:18.840 hierarchical social structure. So there might be another theory. So 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.000 it's very hard to choose one or two. But I'm 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:25.640 just giving you some choices of theory. 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:29.800 Right, which we appreciate. Yeah, we're learning, yeah, very much. So, 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:34.399 I mean, we know how prevalent, you know, intimate partner 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:37.280 violence is, especially here in America, and we know the 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:42.080 numbers are quite high. Do you know, is it higher 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.439 in other countries compared to here? 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.520 May or may not. So it depends on which country 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:53.760 are we are comparing us with. So like United Nations 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:59.200 released like the formerly port about pattern of violence prevalence 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:04.240 across the glove and according to recent the port, United 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:10.040 States shows like comparable numbers across like the developed countries. 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:13.359 So I mentioned I came from Korea, so I know 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:20.400 the numbers are pretty pretty similar between Korea and United States. 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:26.960 But compared to like the like underdeveloped countries or far 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:32.879 remote countries like for instance, un identify the ten countries 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:36.760 that show the highest prevalence of a pattern of violence. 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:41.280 So a couple of African countries, for instance a Congo 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:46.200 or Iberia included in the RIST and couple of Pacific 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:51.480 island nations including Papua New Guinea or Solomon Islands also 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.439 show like about half of the population the party some 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:56.800 form of violence. 0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:57.640 Wow. 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:01.560 So we don't know for sure why. It may be 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:06.720 because like the Mail patriarchy, maybe stronger there, or there 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:10.840 may be some religious influence if any religion or social 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:18.520 loans or community values, socialized community members into certain expectations, 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:22.280 certain growth of people can use violence. Whyas another groups 0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:26.800 of people just have to suffer for some something. The 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:30.600 United States not the worst, or we cannot say worse 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:34.480 than most of the countries, but very severe in terms 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:37.960 of number percentage. So let me give you a number. Okay, 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:43.880 So annually we know that about six percent of or 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:46.760 other two women, so in terms of number is about 0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:50.840 seven million the party the experienced some form of sexual 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:57.679 violence fishical views and starking. Wow. And a little smaller 0:24:57.800 --> 0:25:02.320 number four men, but still about six million. Other men 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:07.119 aged eighteen or over also reported the physical violence and 0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:12.720 starking victimization. Again, there are differences, right, So women deported 0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:17.240 the more sexual violence starking whyas men deported the similar 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:19.960 levels of psychological abuse. 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:21.240 But still very high. 0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:45.840 Yeah, doctor Chol, like you spoke earlier about shame, right, 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:49.159 and just sharing from my own experience, Like I didn't 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:51.960 tell a soul that I was. 0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:55.000 Physically, verbally and emotionally abused until I was twenty one 0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:58.199 years old, and that was because that last time I 0:25:58.240 --> 0:26:00.479 almost died, And I think I kind of like flipped 0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:04.320 and I'm like, oh, I can't not tell everyone, you know, 0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:05.520 but I didn't press charges. 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:07.840 I didn't report it out of shame. 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:10.680 Just by you saying all that, Like, I can only 0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:14.640 imagine what it's like in all these other countries where 0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:17.040 culturally maybe they're not supposed to report it. 0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:21.240 Right, and probably there they don't have the resources as well. Right, 0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:26.520 I think this is probably the most important question. How 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:28.640 do we break the cycle? 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:35.240 I believe like making our society egalitarian and more diverse 0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:40.320 and inclusive and equitable is the probably the most important 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:44.640 thing we have to pursue. But it's a wrong term goal, right. 0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:48.880 We cannot expect like our society is a change overnight. Okay, 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:51.359 all women are like equal to and we have to 0:26:51.359 --> 0:26:54.159 pay equal amount of money to regard it with their 0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:57.800 gender sexual orientation, we cannot expect that, but still we 0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:01.439 have to try hard. So and another area that we 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:06.919 can make it for this education, so let them know. 0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:11.640 So it's much better if we can start early because 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:17.880 the norms values about healthy relationship or like the how 0:27:17.960 --> 0:27:21.040 bad it is to rely on violence. It can be 0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:25.080 educated or it can be socialized very early on. Then 0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:29.399 we can keep that ressent and valuus all our lifetime. 0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:33.840 So like the about the nature of violence, or what 0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:38.280 would be the healthy relationship look like? And what can 0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:41.560 be done if your witness something going on or your 0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:45.240 friend share this thing is going on, or your friend 0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:50.679 said nothing but you felt something different. Not not questioning 0:27:50.760 --> 0:27:55.320 them or not intimidating them, not overly charged the way, 0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:59.240 so that that kind of education training can be done 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:02.960 very early on, because like repetition is the key also 0:28:03.160 --> 0:28:07.920 education because we can be forgetful and as we live 0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:12.040 on we are exposed to all different types of environment 0:28:12.320 --> 0:28:16.400 and probably one lesson we took from early education may 0:28:16.440 --> 0:28:21.159 not be suitable for another situation, like workplace harassment is 0:28:21.280 --> 0:28:25.440 very different from like dating violence at school or tempus. 0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:29.600 So we need like a continuous education of training, and 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:32.720