1 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Mystery swirling around a gorgeous socialite. I Meancy Grace. This 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here 3 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. First of all, 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: take a listen to this country clip said, absolutely, she 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: looked like she would hang out with that kind of 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: affluent crowd. Everyone said they were just wonderful people and 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: very much in love. The Hamilton's are a well known 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: and socially prominent couple in Oklahoma. It is a second 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: marriage for both. John Hamilton is a successful physician specializing 10 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: in obstetrics and gynecology. Susan Hamilton is her husband's business manager, 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: running his clinic, usually spending two days a week in 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: the office. The couple has been married for nearly fifteen 13 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: years and do all things that most married couples do. 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: They lunch together twice a week, take vacations, including jetting 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: away for weekends on what the couple calls they're quick 16 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: fix trips. Quick fix strips sounds like quick, expensive fixed trips, 17 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: jetting away at the last moment on a weekend on 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: a plane, but it sounds like happy marriage. You were 19 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: just hearing our friends at KWTV and Crime online dot 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: Com but the first thing I heard from a KWTV 21 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: was country club set. To Alicia Dean joining us to crime, 22 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: author and blogger, author of Death Notice, the Monroe Donovan series, Alicia, 23 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What exactly does that mean? 24 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: The country club set? They were members of the Quill 25 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: Creek Country Club. It's an affluent country club here in 26 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: the Oklahoma City metro area, and they lived, you know, 27 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: the lifestyle that went along with that. I woh tell 28 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: me about it, because I didn't even know what a 29 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: country club was until I guess I was in all 30 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: it's maybe high school. Okay, tell me all about the 31 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: country club set. I want to hear the whole thing. 32 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: It just involves there's you know, the golf course. It 33 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: involves lavish dinners and parties. I'm sorry, it sounds good 34 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: to me. Golf. I don't know, no offense to all 35 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: of you golfers, but how can you spend eight or 36 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: nine hours in one day on the golf course. Doesn't 37 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: anybody have to go to work or take care of 38 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: their children. And don't start with it's a weekend. There's 39 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: still children on the weekend. I guess maybe if you're 40 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: retired and you're not working and you're not raising children. 41 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: That's fine. Go fritter away nine hours on the golf 42 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: course if you can afford it. Fredis is joining me. Now. 43 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: You may know his name. He's a high profile lawyer 44 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: out of Oklahoma, and he's a former minority leader in 45 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: Oklahoma House of Representatives. He's the author of Oklahoma's most 46 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: Notorious Crimes. That's a heck of a read, right there, Kent, 47 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: Fredus Kent, tell me about this Quill Creek country Club. Well, 48 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: let me tell you doctor Hamilton. I don't get the 49 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: wrong impression of him. He was a very hard working doctor. 50 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: He was a very professional and successful doctor. He was 51 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: also a controversial doctor because, besides being an obgyn, he 52 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: had an abortion clinic. Oh dear Lord in Heaven, you're 53 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: not dragging an abortion into it, are you. I mean, 54 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: if you don't want an abortion, don't have one. Can 55 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: you just tell me about Quail Creek Country Club? Because 56 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: right now I don't care if the doctor performed an abortion. 57 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: Tell me about the country club, all right. The country 58 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: club is, as described, an country club for affluent people 59 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: in northwest Oklahoma City. I think it is. It is 60 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: surrounded by houses very very nice residences. And the Hamilton's 61 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: lived in one of those houses. They were part of 62 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: that entire community. Okay, now this is what I know. 63 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: That the Quell Creek Country Club is billed as Oklahoma 64 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: City's premier destination for over sixty years, a family country club, 65 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: and in all of the advertising it's all about families. 66 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: They have social events, a social calendar full, they say, 67 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: a fun, exciting events for members to enjoy year round. Okay, 68 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: what more do I know? Let's see here pasta night seafood, buffet, night, 69 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: father daughter dinner, dance. Let's see what else do they 70 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: have besides just food? Okay, cooking classes with chefs, wine, dinners, 71 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: the little members have fun at kids and movie nights 72 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: and kids and night out. That sounds like a night 73 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: for the parents to dump their kids. Trivia sing oh 74 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: in the restaurant, Tennis mixers, wine and beer, dinners, happy hour, 75 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: character brunch, Valentine's Day, that that's important, Quill Creek Corral, Easter, egg, Hunt's, 76 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: Mother's Day, blah blah blah blah, Men's grill, Christmas Party okay, 77 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: Santa Brunch boo bash okay, and all the pictures have Okay, 78 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: never mind, there's some people. Everybody's holding an opaque cup. 79 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: I think I know what's going on there. But I'm 80 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: looking at Quail Creek Country Club. It's beautiful, it's wow. 81 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: At one point it says host an event, and it 82 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: shows this gigantic It looks like the ballroom in Beauty 83 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: and the Beast. That's what it looks like. Oh there's 84 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: a rotunda. When I hear that, I know that's a 85 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: big structure and somebody very important is going to be 86 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: there very soon. Let's see here, the pheasant Room, the 87 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: Partridge room. This is one exclusive place. Now what does 88 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: that have to do with this? Well, you stated Kent 89 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: Fredas if I am correct that their home was once 90 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: situated around the golf course. Is that correct? Did it 91 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: border the golf course also Curious Creek, which runs through 92 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: the whole edition. I'm just wondering who could see into 93 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: the home from that golf course. Now I am not 94 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: a golfer, but i have been to a lot of 95 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: charity golf events and I've always noticed these beautiful, fantastic 96 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: homes on the edges of golf courses, and they all 97 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: seem to have big picture windows. Of course, they do 98 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: because you look out at nothing but green trees and 99 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: manicured lawns, and I always think, well, they're enjoying the view. 100 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: But I wonder if there's a reverse view for people 101 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: on that golf all men. No offense to you men 102 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: on the panel, But doctor Angie, you know where I'm 103 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: going with this. With me, we're noown psychiatrist, Doctor Angela Arnold. 104 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: You can find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. 105 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: Just as much as you're looking out of the golf course, 106 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: all these men you don't know are walking by and 107 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: driving by on their golf carts looking at you. Whether 108 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: you think about it or not, Doctor Angie, I don't 109 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: like that, I know. And not only the men on 110 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: the golf course. What about the people that are taking 111 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: care of the golf course. I'd probably be more afraid 112 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: of than me and golfing, because it's my opinion they 113 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: most most of them have a snootful and they're out 114 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: there drinking and golfing. You know, people do things when 115 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: they're drinking they wouldn't normally do, correct. But yeah, yeah, 116 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: there's a whole other group of manicure lawn groomers and 117 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: manicurists and golf experts out there taking care of the Yeah, 118 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: you don't know who's out there looking in your picture window. 119 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: Go ahead and Angie, see they can go by. They've 120 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: gone by time after time after time, and it's easy 121 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: for someone to stalk a property like that without anybody 122 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: even really knowing it. You're right, You're absolutely right. And 123 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: I also heard is this correct? Alicia Dean is with me, 124 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: true crime author and blogger that she, the wife Susan Hamilton, 125 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: was like the business manager or the secretary at his 126 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: the husband's doctor John Baxter Hamilton ob practice. She worked 127 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: in his office. Yes, that's correct. She was the office manager, 128 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: and she handled his books and oversaw the nursing staff. 129 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: You know what, I've tried often and you'll enjoy this, 130 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, to snoop whatever my husband's doing at work? 131 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,719 Speaker 1: Can I tell you when I tried to read his 132 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: emails a couple of times by Isa Blood, it was 133 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: so boring. Every time I ambushed him at his office, 134 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: he's doing the same thing. He's on a conference call, 135 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: minding his own business. I always catch him being good, 136 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: So that really hasn't helped me to just be right 137 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: there at his office. But here it sounds like she's 138 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: actually helping him. Time stories with Nancy Grace Guys. Let's 139 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: advance into the mystery surrounding this gorgeous socialite Susan Hamilton. Listen. 140 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: On Valentine's Day, Doctor John Hamilton arrives at the Surgic 141 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: Care Center across the street from Mercy Hospital between sixty 142 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: five and seven am. He performs the surgery, which is 143 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: completed by seven forty five. Within fifteen minutes, Hamilton calls 144 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: the scheduling coordinator and asks her to move up an 145 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: operation scheduled to start at nine. The coordinator, or believes 146 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: Hamilton kid gets started at eight forty five. Hamilton asks 147 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: to be paged when the patient is wheeled in at 148 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: nine a m. Hamilton responds to the page saying he's 149 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: on his way. About nine to fifteen, Hamilton arrives, apologizing 150 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: for being late, saying he has been delayed buying a 151 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: Valentine's Day present for his wife. I had gone into 152 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: the doctor's lounge to dictate the procedure and he was 153 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: in there. He was talking on the phone. I sounded 154 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: like he was talking to Susan. Just a very lighthearted 155 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: conversation Okay, you're hearing not only our friends at crime 156 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: online dot Com, but you're also hearing Hamilton's former partner 157 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: speaking to Dateline. So let me understand to you anyone 158 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: that knows Alicia Dane or Kimp Fredis, what was the 159 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: procedure he was performing? Do we know that morning that 160 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: he could schedule it right down to the quarter hour. 161 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: The second procedure was the removal of an ovarian cyst. Okay, 162 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: because you know, it's so interesting as if it's, for instance, 163 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: a C section, they have them lined up like it's 164 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, a conference call. It's just and it's right 165 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: on time. That said, then we hear the partner, the 166 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: doctor Karen Risin speaking that she heard him on the 167 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: phone speaking to his wife, Susan just before the procedure. 168 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: Guys with me an all star panel. You heard Kent 169 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: Freda's high profile lawyer out of Oklahoma, doctor Angela Arnold. 170 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: Renowned psychiatrist Tom Bevil is joining me, the president of 171 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: Bevil Gardner and Associates, Inc. Also author of blood Stained 172 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: Pattern Analysis with an intro to crime Scene Analysis. Oh, Tom, 173 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: I didn't know that about you. My interest has just 174 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: been heightened in you as an individual, doctor Michelle Dupree 175 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: joining me. You know her, well famed forensic pathologist and 176 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, And of course you 177 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: know true crime author and blogger Alicia Dean. So it's 178 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: Valentine's Day and here he is juggling not only procedure 179 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: after procedure after a procedure, but he actually darted out, 180 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: moving one procedure earlier to eight forty five am. He 181 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: darted out to get something for his wife for Valentine's Day. 182 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: But listen to this. Come on, my wife, my wife, 183 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: my wife. Life in my working is red bird bird. Doctor. 184 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: I've been trying to keep your pretend somebody I cannot bringing. 185 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: I don't get Yeah, I'm gonna hang up. Okay you 186 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: hear a frantic and distraught doctor Hamilton calling about his 187 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: wife to Alicia Dean, true crime author and blogger. He 188 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: came home to find what exactly he came home to 189 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: find um the door unlocked. He called out his wife 190 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: and she didn't respond. He made his way into the 191 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: master bath, where he found her in a mess of 192 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: a bloody pool and attempted to perform CPR. There was 193 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: blood all over the bathroom, all over her and she 194 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: was severely bloodied, and he had just spoken to her 195 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: in the doctor's lounge. Listen to our friends at Dayline 196 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: and forensic files. Susan lying beaten and strangled on their 197 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: bathroom floor, her head bludgeon surrounded by a pool of 198 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 1: her face savage, almost unrecognizable. She had been strangled with 199 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: some neckties. Then the perpetrator drove her head onto the 200 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: floor many times. Death was caused by repeated blows to 201 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: her head with a blunt object. So this gorgeous socialite, 202 00:13:52,679 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: Susan Hamilton was killed two times over, angled with neckties 203 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: and then bludgend in the bathroom floor. And I can 204 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: only assume, can't fredus a high profile lawyer out of 205 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: Oklahoma City, that she was naked? Correct? In the bathroom? 206 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: That's correct. There was a rap found on the floor 207 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: of the master bathroom. You mean like a housecoat cover 208 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: up type rap was found on the floor. But she 209 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: was naked. Was she getting in or out of the tub? 210 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: Do you know? Ki? That was unclear? However, her hair 211 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: was what so she may have just been in the 212 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: shower almost as it sounds like a horror movie, you know, 213 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: where the purp sneaks in the woman's in the shower 214 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: and then he kills her. Kind of a psycho thing. Guys, 215 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: I'm trying to make sense of what we know right now. 216 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: Can Fred tell me what you know about the crime scene? 217 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: What do you know specifically the bathroom? Well, this was 218 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: the master bathroom room of their house that you've described 219 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: in Quail Creek Idiots. About six or seven minutes drive 220 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: from Mercy Hospital two. Doctor Michelle dupre joining me. We're 221 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: now forensic pathologist and author and medical examiner, doctor Dupree. 222 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: It's my understanding that two neckties were wrapped around her 223 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: neck and her skull had been bashed with such force 224 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: her brain was actually visible. Yes, Nancy, I mean this 225 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: is a traumatic obviously, and to me this tells me 226 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: that this is overkill. I mean, you strangle someone and 227 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: then you bash their heads so hard that the brain 228 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: is showing, that's overkill. This is a rage. This was 229 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: very personal. You know what it's reminding me of is 230 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: Jody Arius exactly remember her rage. She and her victim, 231 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: Chrevis Alexander, had been dating. She was obsessed and stalking him. 232 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: After the breakup, got a date with another woman to 233 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: go I think it was to King Kim. She travels 234 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: in secret, literally across the desert to his place. They 235 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: have a marathon day of sex, and then he's still 236 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: is sticking to his guns about taking the other woman 237 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: to King Kim. So she stabs him, we believe twenty 238 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: nine to thirty times, and then shoots him in the 239 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: head exactly again, this is the same type of rage 240 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: that I would see in this type of crime scene. 241 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting, well, so much is interesting 242 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: to Tom Bevill joining me, expert in crime scene analysis 243 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: and blood pattern to when you have a random attacker, 244 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: they're not going to stick around to kill the person twice. 245 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: You know, they're not going to shoot them then stab them, 246 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: then run over them in the car, all right, and 247 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: then force poison down their mouth. That's not happening. If 248 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: this was a rape or someone coming into burgle, they 249 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: would see her and typically run or if they're going 250 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: to kill her, that hit her over the head or 251 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: strangle her one or the other and leave. And that 252 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: in itself for a burglar to kill is also rare. 253 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: And her car was there, to my understanding, so burglar 254 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't come in. But even if they did tom 255 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,479 Speaker 1: bebel they wouldn't kill her two times over, It wouldn't 256 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: take the time. Well, actually that's correct. In most cases, 257 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: if a person is suddenly confronted by the owner of 258 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: the house, the usual thing that occurs is they fleave. 259 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry what that They fleave the scene. In other words, 260 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: they don't want the confrontation. They want to get out 261 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: of the scene. And your question relative to being killed twice, 262 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: there are several things that are interesting. There the netie 263 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: that has created two separate leving your wife around the 264 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: net in between them, there is a fingernail mark which 265 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: is coming from Susan, which is an indication that during 266 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: the strangulation, she isn't fasted, still alive. You know what, 267 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: tom Beville, You're really good. So there's a fingernail mark 268 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: off her own probably trying to get hands or the 269 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: neck ties off her neck, struggling fighting at her own neck, 270 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: which means if you see the fingernail mark and there's blood, 271 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: that would probably mean she was still alive or else 272 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: she wouldn't be bleeding because your heart is no longer pumping. 273 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: You explain that, doctor, Michelle Dufrey, Yes, because actually, if 274 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: your heart is still pumping, then of course blood is 275 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: still circulating. And when blood is circulating, DA, then that 276 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: person who's usually still a lot guys, take a listen 277 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: to the medical examiner in that jurisdiction, doctor Jeffrey golf 278 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: To speaking to forensic The wound her forehead or the 279 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: left side of her head was substantial and massive. That 280 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: weapon has to be a weapon of opportunity. Investigators discovered 281 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: what may have been the murder weapon. The Hamilton's maid 282 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: said that a marble figurine from the bathroom was missing. Okay, 283 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: ken't Freda's joining me, high profile lawyer out of Oklahoma City. 284 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: Can't a marble figurine was missing? Well, that evidence did 285 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: not develop at first they thought that, but there was 286 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: no corroboration of that. So at first we think possibly 287 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: a marble figurine was a murder weapon. To doctor Michel Dupree, 288 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: would you be able to look at the wound to 289 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: the head, the skull fracture and determine if that had 290 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: been the murder weapon? Yes, and in all probability, we 291 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: call these pattern injuries, and pattern injuries can tell us 292 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 1: what type of weapon and perhaps the actual weapon. Of course, 293 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: we would want to compare anything sound on that on 294 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: the weapon to make sure that there was hair or 295 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: blow or DNA or whatever. But yes, we should be 296 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: able to tell what type of weapon was used. Can't 297 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: Freda's joining us out of Oklahoma City? Was that figuring? Ever? Found? 298 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: Who would have come in and murder this gorgeous young socialite, 299 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: seemingly with everything to live for. Take a listen to 300 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: our friends at forensic house. In a search for suspects, 301 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: investigators learned that an anti abortion group planned a demonstration 302 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: in front of the Hamilton's home. We were able to 303 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: determine that the house had been picketed, as well as 304 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: a permit to picket that residence had been attained within 305 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: a month of the time of this homicide. Okay, so 306 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: can't Fredas I guess now you can tell me how 307 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: wrong I am. You're right, abortion does come into this 308 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: because people were at the home picketing. But there is 309 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: a dichotomy. Knt fhreates is someone that would go to 310 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: the trouble of getting a permit to pick it and 311 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: then breaking in to commit murder on top of murder, Well, 312 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: that's true, but they had also received death threats and 313 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: hang up calls, anonymous calls by telephone, and one group 314 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: had created a wanted poster that identified doctor Hamilton has 315 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: wanted debt or alive Well Curious Tom Bevill with Me 316 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: is a high profile expert witness and president of Bevill 317 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: Gardner and Associates in Edmund, Oklahoma at Bevill gardner dot com. Tom. 318 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: That wanted poster that Kent Fredas is talking about. The 319 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: wanted poster was for doctor Hamilton, the husband because he 320 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: performed abortions. Who was obg y incline? Not the wife? 321 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: Is that a little fantastical to you? That? I mean, 322 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: I know every once in a while Peter will go 323 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: crazy and throw blood on somebody and their wife standing there. 324 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: But to go murder the wife when you're angry at 325 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: the doctor, that sounds like a fifth grade girl's novel. Well, 326 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: it certainly isn't the person that you would expect to 327 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: be targeted. In addition to that, we talked previously about 328 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: the two ties, and it's of interest that a stranger 329 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: takes the opportunity to get two ties that belong to 330 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: doctor Hamilton out of the closet to come back in 331 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: order to strangle her again. I don't see that as 332 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: a stranger or a person that is associated with the poster. 333 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: I agree. Who would take the time to do that? 334 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: It reminds me so much of the John and a 335 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: Ramsey case where someone breaks into the home then takes 336 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: the time to kick back on the den sofa and 337 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: write not one but two a practice and a for 338 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: real two or three page ransom note, not at all 339 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: concerned they're going to be caught. But then what about 340 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: the climb scene? What would you be looking for at 341 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: the crime scene, doctor dupree fancy, I would be looking 342 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: at the entire spectrum of things. Look for any disarray, 343 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: look for any blood spatter, any tracks, any available hair's 344 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: fibers or anything that doesn't belong there, anything that is 345 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: going to tell us, you know, basically, sort of what happened, 346 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: where it happened, and even a timeframe. I'd be looking 347 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: at the blood on the floor. Is it drives? How 348 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: much of it is? Drive? Show me the pattern. I 349 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: want to know everything about that scene. And joining me 350 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: is a special Yes, Tom Beville, expert witness Tom, tell 351 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: me about the blood in this particular bathroom in Susan 352 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: Hamilton's bathroom. Well, there's an awful lot of different types 353 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: of blood. Doctor Dupres is correct and looking at the 354 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: various types for locations any disturbances. One of the things 355 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: up interest is the blood pool that is above the 356 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: right side of her head at the time the picture 357 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: was taken. The blood is drying from the outside edges 358 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: inward and it is already crusting, which is showing a 359 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: period of time that has elapsed from the time that 360 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: this has occurred. There is evidence in blood that blood 361 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: has accumulated on the floor and then subsequently her head 362 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: is driven forcefully into that blood pool, so forcefully that 363 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: it is projected blood over to a cabinet door where 364 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: you have a slight, you know, area where the foot 365 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: could go under, but it that blood has hit so 366 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: forcefully that it ricochets up into the inside of the 367 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: door that was closed. Again very very forceful. For that 368 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: to have occurred to the right side of her, we 369 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: have a tremendous amount of blood that has been disturbed 370 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: and smeared. This actually is consistent that doctor Hamilton stated 371 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: that he was on her right side when he rolled 372 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: her and then subsequently did CPR. Yeah, because when police 373 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: and AMT's got there, he was covered in blood and 374 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: he had was frantic having performed CPR, and he returned 375 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: home after that first seven am surgery to give her 376 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: her Valentine's Day's gift, and then after nine he would 377 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: turn back for the next surgery, and he was heard 378 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: on the phone talking to the wife, Well, what more 379 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: do we know about the crime scene? Take a listen. 380 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: On the kitchen counter they found the Valentine's Day card 381 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: John purchased for his wife, and the card read, we 382 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: are important carrying people together. My life would be incomplete 383 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: without you. I love you John. My life would being 384 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: complete without you. I love you John. And of course 385 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: she has a Valentine's card for him as well. Listen. 386 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: The card Susan gave to her husband had an entirely 387 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: different message. One of the captions she had written herself said, 388 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: obviously I bought this card before last Monday. Then as 389 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: you opened the card and began to read the inside 390 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: of it, she had written, I bought this card two 391 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: weeks ago, so they don't seem as appropriate now, I 392 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: love you, signed Susan Hamilton. Okay, what she has written 393 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: him a Valentine's card and says, you know I'm this 394 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: two weeks ago it's kind of inappropriate. Now, why listen 395 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: to our friends at KWTV. There was accusations that he 396 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: was having an affair with one of his clients, who 397 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: was a topless dancer. And this came from phone calls 398 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: that Susan Hamilton had gotten to hold of. Can't freydis 399 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: what what phone calls did she get a hold of? Well, 400 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: outwardly their marriage was very loving and very in very 401 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: good shape, it turned out that actually they were having 402 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: some marital difficulty. I guess so because when you're checking 403 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: her husband's cell phone, the last thing I have had 404 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: time to do is to check David Lynch's cell phone. Um, 405 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: can't what were the calls she got a hold of? 406 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: What were they? What did she see on the phone register? Well, 407 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: he had been calling a woman who was a patient 408 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: who was also a topless dancer. What wait, wait stop 409 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: Alicia Deane, topless dancer who says that anymore she's a stripper? 410 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: Can't fraid is she really do know what happen? You 411 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: really are putting perfume on the pig there? Topless dancer 412 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: like what she studied dancing on Broadway? I mean Alicia Dane, 413 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: who's the woman who's the stripper. Her name is Nina, 414 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: and of course it is go ahead. She was a 415 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: patient of doctor Hamilton's and he was speaking with her 416 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: to try to she was depressed. He was providing her 417 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: with birth control shots. Oh what shot? Birth control shots? Injections? Okay, 418 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: White depressed. She's depressed, doctor Angie. I'm not all about 419 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: an ob gyn giving me advice about my depression. And 420 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: let me tell you something. Now here, she goes, don't 421 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: give you advice about your depression. They send you to me. 422 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,719 Speaker 1: They don't have time for that, nor the training, nor 423 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: the training for that exactly. And I'll tell you something, Nancy. 424 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: Part of our training is that we set boundaries with 425 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: our patients. So sixty calls back and forth with a 426 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: stripper is expensive, can freda? So where she was upset, 427 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: sixty goals to a stripper. That's right, And that is 428 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: exactly what happened. He waited as inocence, but she had 429 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: older neighbors that she no longer trusted him. Well, I 430 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: guess not, So how did that happen? I'm just trying 431 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: to envision this Ryan In the middle of a pelvic exam, 432 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: she says, Oh, I'm so depressed. Okay, that's it. I 433 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: take listen to our friends at crime online dot Com. 434 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: Susan Hamilton believed her husband was having an affair with 435 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: a patient. It would not be unheard of, especially since 436 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: doctor Hamilton had cheated during his first marriage. Susan Hamilton 437 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: found out doctor Hamilton had called the dancer more than 438 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: sixty times in a two month period. Doctor Hamilton denied it, 439 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: saying he was only trying to help a woman cope 440 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: with her depression. Susan Hamilton didn't believe him and confided 441 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: in friends and even moved out for a night. Information 442 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: soon comes to light that the good doctor had been 443 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: to the so called Patients Club. The dancer had performed 444 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: a table dance for him for about one hundred dollars, 445 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: maybe more than once. One week before the Valentine's Day murder. 446 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: Susan Hamilton had made doctor Hamilton write a letter to 447 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: this dancer, refusing to be her doctor any further. Okay, 448 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out what all we're learning from 449 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: this sixty phone calls in just two months. He says 450 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: he's trying to help her cope with her depression. You know, 451 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: no offense to all the men on the panel. But 452 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: I'd like to go to you, doctor dupreetle. Let me 453 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: just start with doctor Angie Arnold. She's a shrink. What 454 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: is wrong with men? Seriously, not just rhetorical? Why do 455 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: they always cheap down? You've got this beautiful woman. It's 456 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: his second go around. It ain't his first time at 457 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: the rodeo. They can learn something the first marriage where 458 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: he cheated. Now he's got this gorgeous wife and he's 459 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: doing it again with a stripper like what he thinks 460 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: that he is more than an ATM to her. He's not. 461 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: It's never enough. It's never enough. And I'm going to 462 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: tell you something. This man is a narcissist. Okay, that's 463 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: why he has a beautiful wife also, but it's never enough. 464 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: They need many different forms of supply, and for all 465 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: we know, maybe his You know, you've been married to 466 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: a guy for a little while. The wife wasn't giving 467 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,479 Speaker 1: him psychologically everything that he wanted anymore to keep him 468 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: pumped up. What are you talking about? Are you somehow 469 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: trying to blame the wife for him cheating? Oh God, no, sweetheart, 470 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: Oh no. First of all, no g od on crime stories, 471 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: do not pull God into this ood don't don't work 472 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: that out. But that said, doctor Michelle Dupree, I know 473 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: you're not a shrink, that you are an author, and 474 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: you've seen a lot of dead bodies. Why why How 475 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: often have you seen a man cheat and then somewhere 476 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: somebody ends up dead out of the whole thing, Nancy, 477 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: Too many times to count. I mean, in a situation 478 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: like this, for whatever reason. When I was a homicide detective, 479 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: one of the first things that we always looked at 480 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: is the staff. It's just it's just the way it 481 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: is and with. But that does not answer my question 482 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: why the men cheat down He's got this gorgeous wife. 483 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: The first one is probably beautiful too, Nancy. If I 484 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: could answer that question, I'd write a book. Alnicia Dean 485 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: and kent't Freydus. Were these two married when they met? 486 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: Were they married to other people when they met? No, 487 00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: they were both divorced. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now 488 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: that we know about the stripper, cops are looking at 489 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: doctor Hamilton. Take a listen to our friends at Forensic Files. 490 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: When reporters heard the tape of doctor Hamilton's nine one 491 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: one calling listen, I've been trying to please send something 492 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: and if you listen to it over and over again, 493 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: it sounds strange. So the local TV station sent the 494 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: tape to a company specializing in computer voice stress analysis. 495 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: This doctor is not stressed to the degree that I 496 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: would think he would be under those circumstances, which makes 497 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: me feel very confident that he rehearsed this before he 498 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: made his call. It's so interesting that they said rehearse 499 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: this because Alicia Dean joining me true crime, author of 500 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: Death Notice Them and wrote Donovan series. She said, Alicia 501 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: Deane dot com, I was about to say, it sounds 502 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: like he's reading really quickly from a script. Yes, I agree, 503 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: it sounds unnatural and forced. There's no real grief for 504 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: hysteria in his voice. He's just it sounds like a 505 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 1: script that he's reading. It really does, It really does, 506 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: and there's more listen. Homicide investigators started to question doctor 507 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: Hamilton's unusual behavior captured on videotape just after the murder. 508 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: He seemed to be out of control with emotions one 509 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,280 Speaker 1: way or another. He would get upset and start moving 510 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: back and forth. He would start crying. It stops almost 511 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: like he was acting. So here we have this bizarre 512 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: behavior while he's talking to police and still taking him 513 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: down to police headquarters is not unusual. He found the body. 514 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: He's a husband, so describe from me. Can't fright us 515 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: and Alicia Dane, what was his bizarre our behavior? First 516 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: to you, Alicia, Well, first of all, in the cock 517 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: car he was scraping his knuckles on the screen and 518 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: banking his head, just acting bizarre while they were they 519 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: had him in the patrol car as they were working 520 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: the scene. Of course, bizarre behavior during a police interrogation 521 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: is not always that unusual. You never know what's going 522 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: to happen when people are under the pressure of an interrogation. 523 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: But there's more than just unusual behavior, because an affair 524 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: and unusual behavior does not a murder defendant make. But 525 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at forensic files. Doctor 526 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: Hamilton's claims present some major contradictions. I don't expect to 527 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: find spatter I observed were present on the front of 528 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: his shirt, below his neck, on both sleeves at the cuff. 529 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: He suggested that he his arm, and his body had 530 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: been in close proximity to a spatter event. Scientists performed 531 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: DNA testing on each and every blood stain on doctor 532 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: Hamilton's shirt and shoes. It was all Susan's blood. There 533 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,760 Speaker 1: was blood found on the steering wheel, there was blood 534 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: found on the seat, and also some hair and tissue 535 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: found on the floor a driver's side. To Tom Bevill, 536 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: expert witness and President Bevel Gardner and associates in Edmund, Oklahoma, Tom, 537 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: all of that blood evidence is extremely damning. I find 538 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: the most damning to be blood on the steering wheel, 539 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: hearing tissue on the floor of the driver's side, because 540 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: according to him, he was at the hospital or the 541 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,479 Speaker 1: daughter's office. He comes home and finds her and calls 542 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: nine on one. There's no indication he ever went back 543 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: to the car. But you're the expert, Tom Bevil, you 544 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: explain to me the significance of the blood evidence, well, 545 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: the tissue in blood that's found on the car and 546 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 1: sisogon and steering wheel. He actually does attempt to explain 547 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: that in that while he was doing CPR, he stated 548 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: that he started thinking about the emergency vehicle having the 549 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 1: ability to get where it needed to be, and that 550 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: he quit doing CPR, ran out to try and move 551 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: the vehicle and got in the car and he was 552 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: shaking so vigorous lad that he couldn't put the key in, 553 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: so we ended up leaving what the vehicle where it 554 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: was Okay, that would possibly explain the blood and the 555 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 1: tissue in the car. Of course, that's certainly not the 556 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: only possibility. There are other possibilities. What about the other 557 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: blood spatter on the front of his shirt below the neck, 558 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: on both sleeves at the cuff. For it to be 559 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: not a smear or a drop, for there to be spatter, 560 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: spatter comes at the time of the gunshot or at 561 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: the time of the blow or the stabbing. Yes, the blood, 562 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: as far as spatter is concerned, there's none that I 563 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: recall immediately blows the neck on the front of the shirt. 564 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: There is, however, on the cuff, primarily on the right 565 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: side of the right cuff. It's also important here to 566 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: talk about poor blood is not because ultimately the excuse 567 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: for the spatter is doing CPR well. We have blood, 568 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: it seems, all over the floor, on the face, on 569 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: the arms. There is no blood on the sternum or 570 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: also none on the abdomen, which is where firefire. Firefighter 571 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,439 Speaker 1: Bradberry said that when he walked in the left hand 572 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,839 Speaker 1: was on the sternam the right hand was on the abdomen. Well, 573 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 1: neither of those places has an accumulation of blood that 574 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: is capable even if you hit into those areas of 575 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: creating spatter. That goes against the possibility of CPR having 576 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,359 Speaker 1: created the spatter that we see on the shirt. There 577 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: is another place where there was not any blood, and 578 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: that is there was no trail of bloody footprints either 579 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: to the front or the back door. All of this 580 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: goes to a jury. Listen, John Hamilton was found guilty 581 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: of his wife's murder and sentenced to life in prison 582 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 1: with no possibility of parole. Our friends at Forensic File 583 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: speaking to you, Tom Bevil, the expert witness in the 584 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: John Hamilton trial, what do you think was the most 585 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: the strongest evidence. Well, there's an awful lot of circumstantial 586 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: evidence that certainly comes together in a holistic view, But 587 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: to me, the cuff was not included as being present 588 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: if you look at the spatter on the outside of 589 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: the cuff from the prosecution expert. However, in turning the 590 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: shirt inside out while examining it, I found over forty 591 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: directional impact spatter on the inside of the cuff. And 592 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: what's important here also is that that is the double 593 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: layer on the cuff, so it's not a bleed crew 594 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: from the outside to the inside. All that is occurring 595 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: to the inside of the cuff. And with a button shirt, 596 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: long sleeve cuff, there is a very small opening that 597 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: is even capable for blood to go into the inside 598 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: of the shirt. And it is certainly the type of 599 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: blood that is associated with an impact. If you have 600 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,760 Speaker 1: a hand coming down and meeting resistance such as the skull, 601 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: that's the point where the cup is going to be 602 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,800 Speaker 1: at its lowest point with that sudden stop, and that 603 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: allows an opening capable of the blood from the impact 604 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: going into and it's the right direction. It is not 605 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: consistent at all with CPR. Yeah, JOm Bebel, I can 606 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: listen to you and can't freight us and Alicia Deane 607 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: all day long as you analyze this case, the circumstantial evidence, 608 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: the forensic evidence, the blood evidence. But this is what 609 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:07,479 Speaker 1: I know. He did. It brought in hell Nancy Grace 610 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: Crumb story signing off good bye to him.