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Speaker 1: Here's something nobody tells you about success. It doesn't fix anything.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have the biggest selling Christian single of all time.

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Speaker 1: You can feel arenas you can have a movie made

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Speaker 1: about your life and still be suffering. Mercy Me singer

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Speaker 1: Bart Millard reveals how during his greatest success he was

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Speaker 1: sick and depressed, and how he found his way back

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Speaker 1: on this Arroyo Grande. Come on, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Everyone go subscribe to Arroyo Grande. Now turn those notifications on.

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Speaker 2: We've got some.

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Speaker 1: Great shows coming and if you'd like to support the show,

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Speaker 1: visit Raymondarroyo dot com. Click donate your tax free contributions

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Speaker 1: help keep the show going. He has defined a generation

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Speaker 1: of contemporary Christian music as the lead singer mercy Me.

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Speaker 1: He wrote anthems like even If and of course the

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Speaker 1: best selling Christian single of all time I Can Only Imagine.

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Speaker 2: Beyond the Grammy.

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Speaker 1: Nominations and Platinum records, Bart Millard was lost in a

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Speaker 1: deep depression just as his song crossed into the mainstream.

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Speaker 1: He tells this second part of his story in the

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Speaker 1: new film I Can Only Imagine two And he told

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Speaker 1: me how a fellow singer pulled him back from the

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Speaker 1: brink and helped him find his way home. Here's Bart

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Speaker 1: Millard Bart, First of all, thank you for being here.

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Speaker 1: What a joy to finally sit across from you.

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Speaker 2: I can only imagine.

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Speaker 1: Two you were revealing a part of yourself really after fame,

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Speaker 1: and how.

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Speaker 2: The struggles that you were still.

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Speaker 1: Wrestling with with I mean, in your marriage, your son's diabetes.

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Speaker 2: Tell me why you wanted to share that now, I

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Speaker 2: don't know.

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Speaker 3: If I've wanted to originally, Like I wish I could

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Speaker 3: say it was my idea to make the movie. But

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Speaker 3: a producer from the first Well produce named Cindy Bond.

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Speaker 3: She's the one that approached me eight years before the

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Speaker 3: first movie and said she wanted to see if there's

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Speaker 3: a story around I can only imagine, And so she's

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Speaker 3: in for eight years. I thought she was crazy, it

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Speaker 3: was never going to happen, but she made it happen.

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Speaker 3: And so soon as that movie finished, she had fallen

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Speaker 3: in love with our song, even if for personal reasons,

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Speaker 3: and so she wanted to find a story. She just

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Speaker 3: wanted let's make a movie around the song. And I

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Speaker 3: was like, well, I don't know the story would be Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because I didn't. I thought we've had enough mercy me

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Speaker 3: and she goes, well, maybe it's fan mail. Let's find

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Speaker 3: something that what that song means to somebody. So for years,

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Speaker 3: all through the pandemic, I kept saying no. It just

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Speaker 3: felt it felt like it was forced, and she wouldn't

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Speaker 3: let up. And so about two and a half years ago,

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Speaker 3: she was like, you know, instead of saying no, what

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Speaker 3: if I got you with a great screenwriter and just

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Speaker 3: see if there's an idea. So Brent mccorky, who co

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Speaker 3: wrote the first one, Digitus Revolution, I'm like, I only

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Speaker 3: know probably two screenwriters, and I'm better friends with him,

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Speaker 3: and I said I could meet with Brent. So we did.

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Speaker 3: We both kind of rolled our eyes, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, Well, you can just tell her. We tried.

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Speaker 3: So we talked about all these ideas and he was like, well,

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Speaker 3: where did the song actually come from? And I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: and I told him about, you know, my son's diabetes

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Speaker 3: and how I just you know, it was the high

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Speaker 3: through our success, but at home, like went through a

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Speaker 3: series of things in two thousand and four that just

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Speaker 3: wrecked me and and my son's diabetes was the one

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Speaker 3: thing that you know, we lost loved ones, but over

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Speaker 3: time that'll heal. But with anything chronic every day. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And so by the time I told him me now,

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Speaker 3: I had a bad day and went and had supposed

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Speaker 3: to write with a friend, Tim Timmins, and that's when

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Speaker 3: the levee broke, and I just just went off on

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Speaker 3: Tim like I'm sick of trying. People think I'm a

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Speaker 3: professional Christian and you know, and everything's falling apart. And

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Speaker 3: that's even if came out of that day, and so

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Speaker 3: Brent's tears his eyes, like that's the story, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, and I mentioned I remember going okay, like

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Speaker 3: I didn't know if I was excited because the first

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Speaker 3: one I loved how it turned out. It was very therapeutic,

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Speaker 3: but it's like exercise, you don't like doing it. It's

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Speaker 3: like right fault, right. So I was like all right,

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Speaker 3: And so I knew there were several doors to go

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Speaker 3: through before there was you know, would be approved. But

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Speaker 3: within the week Lionsgate greenlited like it went really fast,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, shoot, we're doing this.

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Speaker 2: We got to do this thing, whether I like it

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Speaker 2: or not.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, but this one was way The

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Speaker 3: first one was enjoyable. This was way more enjoyable because one, uh,

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Speaker 3: the first one, I was by myself trying to remember

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Speaker 3: all these like trying to be as accurate as I

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Speaker 3: could and reliving childhood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we'll get into that, yes, but this.

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Speaker 3: One, you know, my son and I are on the

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Speaker 3: on the we're best friends, on the healthy end of this.

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Speaker 3: We got through it. If we had never gotten through it,

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Speaker 3: there'd never be a movie. But to be able to

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Speaker 3: stand alongside him and remember these things together and be

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Speaker 3: there every day all my family and they're old enough

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Speaker 3: to comparing, like my youngest is fourteen, and it it

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Speaker 3: was a joy. It was great.

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Speaker 2: What was the hardest part for you to watch on

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Speaker 2: the screen.

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Speaker 3: The hardest part was to relive when Sam Sam. Sam's

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Speaker 3: twenty four now he was diagnosed and he was two

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Speaker 3: and so it's been a while, and so going back,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's things that actually happened that are in

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Speaker 3: the movie. Like there's a moment to where I still

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Speaker 3: I think, you just see lose weight. I don't understand

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Speaker 3: what it is. You know, don't know what diabetes is

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Speaker 3: that much. And there's a couple that was there with

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Speaker 3: their kid that had the same situation and they ultimately

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Speaker 3: lost their child because they couldn't get his levels down

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Speaker 3: and there and there's a scene in real life. The

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Speaker 3: way I found out was I was going to my

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Speaker 3: car and I was an elevator and they got on

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Speaker 3: with like an empty car seat, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: oh no. And that was and they they did hours

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Speaker 3: of interviews about how it went, and they they nailed

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Speaker 3: that scene. And that was like, and I didn't know,

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Speaker 3: you know, until you see it, you don't know what

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Speaker 3: the script's going to be versus that. Yeah, and they, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was. It was that was really really hard. And

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Speaker 3: just going through just giving Sam's first shot and him

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Speaker 3: yelling daddy or hurting me and that kind of stuff

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Speaker 3: was like, yeah, it was tough, but yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: To a cross. But there's really nothing worse than when

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Speaker 2: it's your child.

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Speaker 3: No question, like when you and I think I know

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Speaker 3: all parents are this way, but especially dads, Like when

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Speaker 3: there's this weird sense of when you can't fix your kid,

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Speaker 3: it's almost like it happened on your watch and you

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Speaker 3: carry this burden or just like you know, I know

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Speaker 3: everybody says I wish it could be me, but man,

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Speaker 3: it's true. Like it's like like as if you you

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Speaker 3: were to blame somehow, like what did I do wrong? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me about the Tim Timmans character is a

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Speaker 1: real person.

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Speaker 3: He's a real person. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's really the catalyst yes, yes, history without ruining everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: give people a sense of why why he was so

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Speaker 1: crucial to this moment in your life and this story.

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Speaker 3: It was just timing. Man. We were Tim had signed

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Speaker 3: a record deal and and his label got him to

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Speaker 3: and for us on one of our tours, and it

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Speaker 3: was kind of a last minute edition and first day

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Speaker 3: a tour, We're having a big tour meeting and he

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Speaker 3: comes walking in and we have mutual friends, and he

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Speaker 3: walks and goes, hey, I was told that we're going

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Speaker 3: to be best friends to me, and I was he

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Speaker 3: came in hot like this kind of he's kind of

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Speaker 3: like an annoying puppy. He's never sad, but he's just

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Speaker 3: always full of joy. And and I was like, it

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Speaker 3: was perfect timing because I was the opposite of that.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 3: I was scrooged, like I just I used to be

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Speaker 3: like that, but just just wasn't very enjoyed to be

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Speaker 3: around and he wouldn't let it go, and just and

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Speaker 3: we became and we became best friends. And during that time,

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Speaker 3: probably he was more aware than I was of just

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Speaker 3: my relationship with my son. And you know, looking back,

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Speaker 3: like you know, I would, I would be a parent

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Speaker 3: and wrestle with my other kids. But Sam, it was like,

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Speaker 3: donat that, eat this, take a shot. I was a doctor,

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Speaker 3: and I think he knew it was hard on me.

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Speaker 3: I think he noticed how hard it was for Sam

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Speaker 3: my son, which I never realized till later. But he,

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Speaker 3: you know, he was very aware of how I would

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Speaker 3: treat the healthy kids, so to speak, and I'm just

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Speaker 3: trying to keep them alive. But it was like, you know,

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Speaker 3: just you know, it was just, you know, I didn't

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Speaker 3: know how much it weighed on Sam. And Tim saw that.

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Speaker 3: So Tim kind of became a bridge, like he saw

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Speaker 3: he was the first one that saw that Sam had

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Speaker 3: a love for music like I do, and and really

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Speaker 3: leaned into that and and and kind of I honestly

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Speaker 3: brought us back together. We were never a part, but

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Speaker 3: just kind of tore down some walls for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, You've been very open that you were battling depression.

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Speaker 1: Really from the time your son was two till sixteen.

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Speaker 1: You're taking every touring gig you can.

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Speaker 2: Was that to escape?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I wasn't asking for more shows, but I never

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Speaker 3: said no anymore because you know, it's it's a yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's some denial and and you know, I'm I'm being

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Speaker 3: the provider and doing my job. But it just so

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Speaker 3: happens that my diabetic son would stay home and I

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Speaker 3: would just I was this weird that was part of

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Speaker 3: the depression, like pretending it didn't happen, but all for

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Speaker 3: the sake of ministry. You know, it's that you had

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Speaker 3: a lot of pastors the same day. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you go hide out, you hide out in the work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What would you say to those who feel that tension

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Speaker 1: between having to perform and show up for the audience

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Speaker 1: for your or your clients or your customers and while

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Speaker 1: you're unraveling, how did you balance that?

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Speaker 2: How did you find a way out of that?

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Speaker 3: It's probably the hard way for me. I mean, like

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Speaker 3: you know, I think every anybody in ministry or really

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Speaker 3: if you do anything to where you have to have

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Speaker 3: to switch on so much. Even with what you do,

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Speaker 3: there's moments where you go home because home is safe

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Speaker 3: where you can turn the switch off right, never thinking

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Speaker 3: about how it impacts everybody at home. Yeah that's been

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Speaker 3: watching you be you know, twelve percent on TV or whatever,

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Speaker 3: and you don't mean harm by it, but it's like

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Speaker 3: you need this place to escape, and it becomes it

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Speaker 3: can become very self fish. Just like that's why you

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Speaker 3: you know, people talk about preacher's kids, they're kind of rebellious.

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Speaker 3: They'll all tell you, man, my dad wasn't a preacher

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Speaker 3: at home. You know, he just and whether he was

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Speaker 3: something totally different or just not present. I was just

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Speaker 3: wasn't present. I wasn't abusive or had a temper. I

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Speaker 3: just would zone out. And man, there's got to be

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Speaker 3: a balance. Something's going to give, And unfortunately a lot

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Speaker 3: of times it's the home life because everyone else is is,

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Speaker 3: you know, patting you on the back and cheering you

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Speaker 3: on in the spotlight, and it's there's got to be

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Speaker 3: a balance, man, It's it's and I wish I had

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Speaker 3: the answers. I mean, we hit rock bottom and I

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Speaker 3: feel like my wife's a saint for not leaving me.

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Speaker 3: I mean she definitely could have and I just showed up.

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Speaker 3: I'm just a bigger kid she had to take care

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Speaker 3: of when I was home, and just to have the

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Speaker 3: patience to go through counseling together and figure it all out.

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Speaker 3: But it's like, yeah, you just got to be aware

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Speaker 3: of it and be as present as you pop up.

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Speaker 2: And when you're in the middle of it.

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Speaker 1: When you're in the middle of that, it's very hard

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Speaker 1: to see to see what you're doing, what's happening even

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Speaker 1: and because you're hurting, the actions that are a result

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Speaker 1: of what of that pain?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think especially for men like I swear,

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Speaker 3: I always say the enemy, they want to isolate you first,

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Speaker 3: Like isolation is the worst thing. When you start believing

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Speaker 3: no one can understand I'm going through, you want to

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Speaker 3: be alone. I think the older we get as fathers

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Speaker 3: and as husbands, it's something I feel like our friends

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Speaker 3: circle gets smaller and smaller, like we like to have

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Speaker 3: our little time alone or whatever, and that's okay, But

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Speaker 3: during these moments, man, it's like you've got to find

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Speaker 3: community and people to talk to or you're not gonna

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Speaker 3: be able to play yourself out of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about even If, which is really

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Speaker 1: the centerpiece of this movie, and look after thirty years

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Speaker 1: in this industry, tell me about tell me how I

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Speaker 1: mean you wrote I can only imagine, And then much later,

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Speaker 1: even if tell me about that transition and the difference

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Speaker 1: between those two songs and what they bespeak of the

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Speaker 1: difference in you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've the difference. I'll start with there's probably more similarities. Well,

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Speaker 3: there's similarities on a lot of these songs that mean

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Speaker 3: the most to me. Like even if I can only imagine,

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Speaker 3: these songs weren't written as if I have it all

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Speaker 3: together and I'm some super Christian. It was quite the opposite.

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Speaker 3: Like most of these songs are wishful thinking, and what

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Speaker 3: I hope will be especially imagine is a great example.

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Speaker 3: Like people are like, man, what a great song to write.

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Speaker 3: I was like, you don't understand. When I left the

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Speaker 3: gravesite my father died, my grandmother said I can only

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Speaker 3: imagine what your dad's seen right now, and I became

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Speaker 3: obsessed with that. And I was nineteen at the time,

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Speaker 3: and everyone kept telling me, if your dad could choose,

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Speaker 3: he'd rather be in heaven than be here with you.

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Speaker 3: I get it, but as a nineteen year old, that's

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Speaker 3: the worst thing you can say to me. When I

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Speaker 3: just got my dad back for a couple of years,

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Speaker 3: the one that always wanted, and so a lot of

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Speaker 3: the questions and Imagine started from me kind of being

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Speaker 3: ticked off, like, all right, God, what's so great about

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Speaker 3: you that I would choose that? Or he would rather

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Speaker 3: be there than here right now in real life, not

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Speaker 3: the timeline of the movie. My dad died in ninety one.

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Speaker 3: I wrote Imagine ninety nine, and I was obsessed with

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Speaker 3: that phrase all those years. By the time I wrote it,

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Speaker 3: I wasn't the angry person like he had showed me

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Speaker 3: many many times, and my relationship was stronger than ever.

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Speaker 3: But they all start out of these selfishly. These songs

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Speaker 3: are I write them for me and not really anybody else, huh.

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Speaker 3: And even if it was the same thing, like you know,

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Speaker 3: I was, I unloaded on tim that day. I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm tired of trying to pretend that I have it

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Speaker 3: all together because I stand on a stage and I don't.

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Speaker 3: And I'd mentioned, man, if I could just be like

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Speaker 3: Shadrack me shaking a Bendigo where they're in the fiery

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Speaker 3: furnace and they're like, I know that God will deliver us,

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Speaker 3: but even if he doesn't. I'm still not going to bow.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to surrender. I was like, I would

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Speaker 3: like to be those dudes for five minutes, but I'm not.

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Speaker 3: I'm not And it was out of frustration. And when

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Speaker 3: I ended up not we didn't write anything that day.

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Speaker 3: Tim's like I said, he's always happy. As I'm telling

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Speaker 3: him this, He's playing piano, which sounds like the wrap

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Speaker 3: it Up music on Award Show, and he kind of

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Speaker 3: agree in and so I thought he was doing a bit.

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Speaker 3: He was like trying to be funny. So it ticked

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Speaker 3: me off and so I was like, you know what,

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Speaker 3: we're not working today. I left and he was playing

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Speaker 3: even if just noodling, and then he sent me a

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Speaker 3: voicemaan and said, I've been I've tried to write this

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Speaker 3: for like the last I think it's three or four

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Speaker 3: years or whatever. He started with Crystal Lewis and and

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Speaker 3: they tried it and it went nowhere and been put

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Speaker 3: on a shelf, and he was like, he goes, I

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Speaker 3: tried to write that same shatter at me, check the idea,

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Speaker 3: and when I got it, it just it wrecked me.

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Speaker 3: I had to pull over and uh, and it was

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Speaker 3: everything I was trying to say and and so you know,

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Speaker 3: for that one, like it was another example of Tim

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Speaker 3: kind of pulling me out of that. He sent this

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Speaker 3: chorus that they didn't know what they're gonna do with

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Speaker 3: and and I just latched onto it, man, and and

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Speaker 3: it was I wasn't thinking about anybody else or radio

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Speaker 3: hits or whatever, Like It's exactly what I needed to hear. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: which are the best songs, Like the ones that have

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Speaker 3: lasted for us are like it was therapy and it

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Speaker 3: never w never went outside the room we were writing.

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Speaker 3: And if it connects, that's awesome. It reminds me I'm

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Speaker 3: not alone. But this is just to get me through today.

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Speaker 1: I want to tell you about ave Maria Mutual Funds.

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Speaker 1: as an ave Maria investor myself, for years, I've always

325
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Speaker 1: every investment reflects Catholic teaching and that gives me peace

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Speaker 1: about integrity, purpose and making a difference. That's why I'm

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335
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Speaker 1: which includes investment objectives, risks, fees, charges and expenses, and

336
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337
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,680
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340
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 1: Funds are distributed by Ultimus Funds Distributors LLC. You've written

341
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,960
Speaker 1: and talked extensively in the first movie was about the

342
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,880
Speaker 1: difficult childhood you had, your father.

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Speaker 3: Who was abusive.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what music meant to you in those younger days?

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Speaker 1: Was it a refuge?

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Speaker 3: Is everything? Yeah? Everything? Yeah. In the first movie, it

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Speaker 3: shows the carrying that walkman everywhere, and that was every day,

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Speaker 3: like you know, like I would go through batteries like crazy,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, like music and then like I used to draw,

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Speaker 3: I thought I was going to be an animator for

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Speaker 3: a while because music sounded so far fetched. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: obsessed with music. My older brother who introduced me to

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Speaker 3: you know, Elo and the Beatles and all this stuff,

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Speaker 3: and I would just consume it like a sponge and

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Speaker 3: still do. And yeah, it was It's always been my

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Speaker 3: escape and just it's literally like it's it's been my

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Speaker 3: therapy for as long as I can remember.

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Speaker 1: You the first your first impetus, it was football, and

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Speaker 1: you wanted to be a football player. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: an industry, an injury crashes in stops that dream. Tell

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Speaker 1: me how that obstacle was preparing you for what you're

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Speaker 1: really called to.

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Speaker 3: Well, my dad was the only All American football player

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Speaker 3: was supposed to like I'm named after bart Starr. Like

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Speaker 3: he found out years later that like he went to

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Speaker 3: SMU and played there, then he got injured and then

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Speaker 3: he stayed in touch with the team in like ten

368
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Speaker 3: year reunion whatever it would have been. Is when he

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Speaker 3: by the time I was almost right before I was born,

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Speaker 3: is when he found out that the because back then

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Speaker 3: you didn't leave college early, that if he would have

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Speaker 3: finished the Vince Lombardie packers were looking at him. So

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Speaker 3: that's why I got named bart Starr after Bart Starr

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Speaker 3: Well anyway, So I it was just it was inevitable.

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Speaker 3: My brother myself like we're going to play football because

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Speaker 3: you're Arthur Millard's son in this small town and so, uh,

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Speaker 3: I mean I loved it. I was no All American,

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Speaker 3: but uh, that one my sophomore year, I think I

379
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Speaker 3: had a growth spurt and I got moved from offensive

380
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Speaker 3: line to tight end, which everybody wants to carry the ball.

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Speaker 3: And the first pass I took was was high and

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Speaker 3: I got sandwich between two linebackers and it broke both

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Speaker 3: my ankles and and they were like, uh, They're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're You're not gonna play anymore. And the only class

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Speaker 3: available was choir after the school the school yeard already

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Speaker 3: started and they're like, we can put you in choir

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Speaker 3: and so and I just had an unbelievable teacher that

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Speaker 3: convinced me that it was it was okay and cool

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Speaker 3: to be able to sing when your voice is a

390
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Speaker 3: little high for that age and built frog of football players.

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Speaker 1: That was the That was really, that was it the

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Speaker 1: turn off, yeah, into into your into really your future.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Marcia Fincher is the one that convinced me that

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Speaker 3: I could do it, and uh and yeah, and so

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Speaker 3: it's you know, it's and I already had a love

396
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Speaker 3: of music. Yeah, you know, nobody you never know if

397
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Speaker 3: you can sing or whatever. And you know, I'd started

398
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Speaker 3: singing solos in church and all that kind of stuff.

399
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Speaker 3: And still the thought was I would be a youth

400
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Speaker 3: minister or something a church. And but this there's no

401
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,199
Speaker 3: American idol, there's nothing then like to say I'm going

402
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,480
Speaker 3: to be a singer. It is like, oh lord, yeah,

403
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,919
Speaker 3: you're gonna be broke and all this stuff. And so

404
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 3: that's what happened. My dad passed away, Uh November, my

405
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 3: fresh year in college I finished. I was going to

406
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 3: East Texa State University. I finished that year, followed my

407
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,679
Speaker 3: youth pastor of church in Florida and worked with like

408
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Speaker 3: the Junior High and they had a praise band. I'd

409
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Speaker 3: never we'd never seen that little church I went to

410
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 3: started working with them, and one of the guitar players

411
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Speaker 3: was Mike Schweitzer, who's founding member. And we're like, hey,

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Speaker 3: what if we could actually do this and yeah, wow,

413
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Speaker 3: so it was a ninety four that's when we started

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Speaker 3: doing it.

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Speaker 2: How long did it take you to write? I can

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Speaker 2: only imagine.

417
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Speaker 3: Sitting down and writing about ten minutes, like, but it

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Speaker 3: had been in my heart for years. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But you know there's something my friend hold jose Feliciano,

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Speaker 1: I think it took him ten minutes to write Falise Navidat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is there something about when something's at the top of mind,

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Speaker 1: you just get it out and something And did you

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Speaker 1: know what was going to be a hit? No?

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Speaker 3: I didn't. We weren't signed, we weren't anything, so I

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Speaker 3: didn't know what a hit was. We were independent from

427
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 3: ninety four to two. Well, we got signed because I

428
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Speaker 3: wrote imagine. So for those six years, we were just

429
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 3: doing church camps and uh, you know, we would do

430
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Speaker 3: worship songs with hand signs that we didn't write, just

431
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Speaker 3: because that would be we would we would store it

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Speaker 3: for winter by getting paid to do church camps in

433
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 3: the summer. Yeah, And so we decided, hey, what if

434
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 3: we tried to make our own album. And we made

435
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 3: this album, but every song was kind of like we

436
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 3: were trying to write original songs that had hand signs.

437
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 3: And all the corny stuff, and we needed one more song.

438
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 3: And uh like when my grandmother told me that about

439
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 3: accon imagine at the gravesite, I became obsessed with that

440
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 3: phrase and I would write it on everything and get

441
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,200
Speaker 3: my hands on this is back, you know when you

442
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 3: had phones to the long cord and old you either

443
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 3: practice your autograph or I would always write accoly imagine.

444
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 3: So years later, we were on a bus and we

445
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 3: had one more day in the studio. We were coming home,

446
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 3: and we needed one more song. And I was trying

447
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 3: to find a blank page. And every page in my

448
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 3: notebook had aconly emagine written my icon'ly imagine written on it,

449
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 3: just over the years, and I mean couldn't find a

450
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 3: blank page, both sides. And just for a second, I

451
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 3: had never dawned to me to try to write, because

452
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: we were just doing cover songs. I hadn't written much, wow,

453
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 3: And so I just started writing. And you know, and

454
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 3: I've obsessed over those questions for years, and I think

455
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 3: when you take away the pressure of trying to make

456
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 3: the next hit or the next album, I didn't know

457
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 3: how that worked. I was just writing. Something had been

458
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 3: in my heart, and so I wrote it in like

459
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 3: ten minutes. I was like, oh my gosh, it's like

460
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 3: this all like not many mistakes. And I showed my wife.

461
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 3: She was on the bus. I woke up middle and

462
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 3: I was like, look, I just wrote this, and she

463
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 3: was like, oh, that's great. Much sleep. And then we

464
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 3: got to see her the next day and started noodling

465
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 3: around and at first it was a fast song. It

466
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 3: was terrible, and then I was like, no, it's not right.

467
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 3: And then I started playing the first couple of notes

468
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 3: and and all of a sudden we had something, but

469
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: was still we had no idea, like until back then

470
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 3: on independent record This is back when you'd sell CDs.

471
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 3: If we sold a thousand CDs in a year, we

472
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 3: were in great shape. But that independent record we had,

473
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 3: which is our last one before we signed, we sold

474
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 3: about one hundred and eighty thousand albums in the back

475
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 3: from the back of our car on our own and

476
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 3: we were like, what is happening? And and then that's

477
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 3: Amy Grant got wind of it and she wanted to

478
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 3: record it, and we thought, we're happy where we are.

479
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 3: We're not going to sign. We had tried that before

480
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 3: and didn't didn't like how it went, so we s

481
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 3: thoughtless to do it ourselves, and so we said yes

482
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 3: to her, and then that's when people started calling saying, hey,

483
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 3: we heard you wrote Amy's next to El Shadai is

484
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 3: what we're doing. So we end up signing a deal,

485
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 3: but Amy still she still had When I say it

486
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 3: gave her the song, it just means she can take

487
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 3: it to radio. It's hers and so and so the

488
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 3: only agreement was if we did sign, we were allowed

489
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 3: to put our versions like a B side on our album.

490
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 3: So we did that, but and then it was our

491
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 3: first single tanked. We were selling less records than we

492
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 3: were on our own, and now we're paying a lot

493
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 3: more people, Like it couldn't have gotten any worse. And

494
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 3: we were about to do the next single off that album,

495
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 3: and Amy heard about it and called and was like,

496
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 3: y'all need to finish what you started, like this song's

497
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 3: going to change your life. As she gave it back. Wow,

498
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 3: And we released it and it went platinum in like

499
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 3: a few months, and unbelievable, Yeah, it really was unbelievable.

500
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: Unbelievable, And I mean, mercy Me at that time still

501
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: is an indie rock bank and yet here comes this

502
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: haunting piano ballot. That had to be a bit I

503
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: mean to allow that into the repertoire.

504
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 3: Well, you know what we did. We wrote it and

505
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 3: never performed it live from us a year because it

506
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 3: didn't fit everything we're doing anything. Yeah, it was just

507
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 3: the ballot at the end of the album and we

508
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 3: were doing a camp and they were like, hey, can

509
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 3: you play that heaven song? We were like, we don't

510
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 3: know it, And so as he's preaching, we're behind these

511
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 3: closed curtains quietly learning our own song. And then when

512
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 3: he was done, it opened. We played the song. Couldn't

513
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 3: see anybody because the lights are in our face, and

514
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 3: when we finished, there was no applause, and we're like,

515
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 3: this is the worst decision of our lives. I when

516
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: the lights came up, they were all kneeling at the altar,

517
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 3: Oh my god, and it was like what is And

518
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 3: we'd never seen anything like that, you know, And it

519
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 3: was like, what's happening? And I swear we've played it

520
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 3: every night since.

521
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 1: What do you think was happening? What do you think

522
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: is skill happening? I mean it's really a.

523
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 2: Cultural jaggern off that song. Yeah, and obviously moves people deeply.

524
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question. I mean the we got

525
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 3: asked a lot, like you know it, did it sing

526
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 3: in Christian music? And then we moved on was promoting

527
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 3: our second album, and then not long after nine to eleven,

528
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 3: there was a top four station in Dallas that kind

529
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 3: of a Howard Stern kind of I don't say perverted,

530
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: but shot Jaya and No Lie. The show was literally

531
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 3: called Fits and Big Gay Stephen in the Morning, and

532
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: they they milked it for all it was worth. And

533
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: they were doing a truth or Dayer type thing where

534
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: people would call in and dare them to do perverted stuff.

535
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 3: And someone called and dared him to play I can't imagine.

536
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 3: And I live in Dallas, but I wasn't listening. Found

537
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: this out later somebody called me and said, hey, you've

538
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: got to turn on a wild one hundred. They're playing

539
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 3: your songs like there's no way. So I turned on

540
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 3: and all I hear is them saying, stop calling, will

541
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 3: play it again in a minute, And it was for

542
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 3: the rest of like three hour show. It's the only

543
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 3: song they played over and over and people were calling

544
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 3: in with tears and I'm it was kind of the

545
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 3: perfect storm. Nine to eleven, hadn't you know this was

546
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 3: it was within the six months of nine to eleven,

547
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,719
Speaker 3: And it was just the timing what people. People were

548
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 3: calling in with the most gutaching stories, And I'll never

549
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 3: forget when I met finally met Fitz, he was like,

550
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 3: I've had people cuss me out for not playing eminem

551
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: or whoever, because I've never in my years of doing this,

552
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 3: had someone call and thank me for playing a song.

553
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 3: So they became big fans of us just because of

554
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: how they were being treated. Wow, they became one of

555
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 3: our biggest advocates, Like they're the reason. It got to

556
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 3: a point where like what do we do with this?

557
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 3: Like there's no plan, Like we're not going to send

558
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 3: a Christian song to a pop station, assume. And so

559
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: the only idea we had was, well, let's just send

560
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 3: them a CD and said and it would stay on

561
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 3: the outside, play it once, if no response, throwed away.

562
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 3: And so not everybody played it, but all the ones

563
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 3: that did it went number one and crazy. Yeah, there's

564
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 3: a station in Orlando that Oh I'm sorry, I'm getting

565
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 3: your question was what is it about the songs?

566
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: Yeah?

567
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, what I was asked at a million times, especially

568
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 3: during that time. And I don't know other than I'm like, man,

569
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 3: I think whether you are Christian or not, we all

570
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 3: hope and want to be a part of something bigger.

571
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 3: And if you lose a loved one, I don't care

572
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 3: who it is. You hope the best for them. And

573
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 3: we're not shoving anything down anybody's throats. I'm asking the

574
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: same questions everybody else is like, like, God, if what

575
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 3: if you're everything that I've been told you are and more?

576
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 3: Am I gonna be able to speak? I mean, it's

577
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 3: it's there's that's my thought. I think it's just asking

578
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: the same questions that.

579
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: Anybody's asked, and that and that resonaates.

580
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: It's nothing offensive or coming in hot. It's just who's

581
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: not wondered that?

582
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,239
Speaker 1: And you've said when the first movie came out, by

583
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: the way, seven million dollar budgets blew up eighty six

584
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: million dollars. You know, in proceed it's unbelievable at the

585
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: box office, but it's very It had to be wrenching

586
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: for you on a certain level because you were living

587
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: not only the abuse you endo it and what you

588
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: went through with your dad. But then you said, and

589
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote you. If the gospel can change my dad,

590
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: it can change anyone. How has that relationship with your

591
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: father changed since his passing and why did you feel

592
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: you had to be so honest in the movie.

593
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 3: Well, my grandmother used to tell me I was a kid,

594
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 3: like don't ever let your hurt go in vain. And

595
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: as a kid, I don't even know if I understood

596
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 3: what she meant. I may get it wrong now, But

597
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 3: to me, I interpret that as if my story can

598
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 3: help somebody else, then my story's worth it, if that

599
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: makes sense, Like because the worst thing is to be

600
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: beat up by your dad and it not to be

601
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 3: worth anything, if that makes sense, like, find something hopeful

602
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: or good of that, because otherwise it's just it's just awful.

603
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: And that's how my grandmother, when I was going through

604
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 3: some of these beatings, she was always wanted to comfort

605
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: me and she would say, just one day, just don't

606
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 3: let this hurt go in vain. And she passed before

607
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 3: we could ever talk about it. But I've that line's

608
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: been in songs and it's just stuck with me. But yeah,

609
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: the first movie, when Sydney Bond approached me, there was

610
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 3: it was about eight years to when it finally released.

611
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 3: When she first approached me and my wife, and I

612
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: unreal aged the movie. Her brother had had passed away

613
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 3: the same or Sam's diagnosed in O four, and that

614
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: was like the depression amount of depression. There's so much

615
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 3: things happened that year, and I was just in a funk,

616
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 3: like for years. And she started she wanted to go

617
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: to counseling, but that was like, she's afraid. That just

618
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 3: sounds like, you know, I would have been one of

619
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: those guys going, well, I don't need counseling. I'm a

620
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 3: Christian or whatever. And so she went in for grief counseling,

621
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 3: and I understood that because it was hard to get over.

622
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: I was thinking just for her brother, but it's a

623
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 3: grief counseling for everything we're going through. She went by herself,

624
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 3: and then one day she was like, hey, she wants

625
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: you to come and just see the progress I'm making.

626
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: That's it, Like I'm going to the Princial's office or whatever.

627
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, ill go. So I went. As

628
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 3: soon as I sit down, my wife's like, oh, I

629
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: need to run the restroom. She goes, and I realized

630
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 3: I'm being ambushed, Like this is like and the counselor.

631
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: She's amazing, and she was the first person to connect

632
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 3: my childhood with how I'm a father, how im my husband,

633
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 3: and really the wounds that I've tried to bury my

634
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: entire life. And now this is right when this crazy

635
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 3: lady says she's going to make a movie. And so

636
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 3: I never thought it was going to happen. But for

637
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 3: those next six or seven years, I went to counseling

638
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 3: and got the healthiest I've ever been in my life,

639
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: and coming to terms with my dad and being able

640
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: to see what my dad went through and just paying

641
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 3: attentions long enough to know his story my mom's story

642
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: to realize, oh wait, they were in similar situations. My

643
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 3: dad's was a crazier and my dad played football most

644
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 3: of his life from five years old without a face

645
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: mask like my doctors later because they didn't know what

646
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 3: it was in that front lobal. They think that because

647
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 3: my dad was when he left SMU, he was a

648
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: flagman on a construction site and he got hit by

649
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 3: a diesel. Oh my Lord, lost him like fifty feet

650
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 3: but never broke a bone. He's a really big, strong guy.

651
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: Put him in a coma for like three months, and

652
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 3: when he came out, he was just all rage. My

653
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: dad's never had to drink of alcohol, and but whatever

654
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: happened him, then this crazy temper that he might have

655
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 3: had on the football field. He was a teddy bear before.

656
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: My mom was like I went home with you know,

657
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: doctor Jay. It was a totally different man, and the

658
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: same doctor delivered me that was there when my dad died.

659
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: He told me, he goes, Man, the more we learn

660
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 3: about this stuff CTE order it's called yeah, like they

661
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: could in ninety one, they didn't even know to check

662
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 3: it right because it's always after you pass away they

663
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: can look at it. He goes, I promise you like

664
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 3: these football players that have had these rage issues and stuff,

665
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 3: he goes everything they're doing. Your dad was the poster

666
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 3: child for that, and so I kind of, you know,

667
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 3: I I found some comfort in that. It's people just

668
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: assume he's an alcoholic or water and was like, now

669
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 3: it's it's a little longer story.

670
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: But and now you have I can only imagine too. Yeah,

671
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: where did you always think, Well, you didn't think that

672
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: you were going to tell any more now, but nonetheless

673
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: it's out not where can people see it.

674
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 3: It's about to be. I guess, well, the VODs and

675
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: wherever streaming or you can buy videos online.

676
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: And it's still in some theaters. Yeah, but you can

677
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: get it online and all the streaming.

678
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll land on some streaming platform at some point

679
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: where right now when it's half in theaters half like

680
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: you can buy it on Apple and all those places

681
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 3: would be hard to find.

682
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 1: I think you left Atlantic Records after two decades, and

683
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: you say you did so because you wanted to be

684
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: free to really speak what you believe, sing what you believe.

685
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: What did it cost you to do that? And are

686
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: you free or no?

687
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: Yeah? I am? And really it was our little label

688
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: that we're part of is called fair Trade, and we've

689
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: been with them from day one, and so they we

690
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: were fortunate they have believed in us. And you know

691
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 3: a lot of times you signed some new artists because

692
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 3: they've got something going on, but then you try to

693
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: change them completely, and so I'm like, wait a minute,

694
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: let me have my instincts, because like, why would you

695
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 3: just go get anybody and change them. And they were

696
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 3: amazing to be let us be true to who we

697
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 3: are are. And so they're the ones that really like

698
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 3: they're like our whole little label left Atlantic and uh

699
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 3: and and and moved on because of the changes they

700
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 3: wanted and this stuff, and they were We've been so fortunate.

701
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 3: We're one of maybe the few. I don't know that,

702
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 3: Like when my label president retires, I'll probably retire. He's

703
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: like the sweetest man. He's always looked out for us,

704
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 3: and he's like, you need to be able to speak

705
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: freely and do what you want to do. And so

706
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: like our it wasn't a big catalog, but our catalog

707
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 3: of us and Phil Wickham and all these guys. We

708
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 3: we we stepped out from Atlantic and wow, yeah yeah,

709
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 3: And it's funny. I didn't realize the how big of

710
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,479
Speaker 3: a move that was until years later because I wasn't

711
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: in the business. He's like, yeah, they wanted this and

712
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 3: this and that. I wasn't gonna let him change that.

713
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 3: And so I'm I'm fortunate that it wasn't a fight

714
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: I had to do in my Yeah.

715
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, your son Sam we talked about earlier, is

716
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: not all a musician.

717
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: He tourists with you. Yeah, what would you tell him?

718
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: Not as a musician, But it was a man that

719
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: you've learned after forty years at a long season of depression.

720
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: What does he need to know now?

721
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: Well, And I've told him most of these. I was like,

722
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 3: you need to find what your non negotiables are and

723
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 3: hold on to him, you know, whether it's family. You know,

724
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 3: I was single when I started, and you know he's not.

725
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 3: He's been married for two years and he just signed

726
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: a record deal. I was like, things are different for you, man,

727
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: and you've got to protect those at all costs. And

728
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 3: it's not just because you know, like I was the

729
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 3: same way, Like I just I've got to pay the bills.

730
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 3: I got to do it. It was like, man, you've

731
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: just got to do a systems check with your wife

732
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 3: and make sure that's good. Yep. The success is worthless

733
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 3: if you lose her and ag and and just the

734
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 3: best advice I've told him is, man, enjoyed as long

735
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 3: as you can, because it's going to become a job.

736
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 3: Like he's still and I love music, but man, there's

737
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 3: nothing like that. He's twenty four and he's just obsessed

738
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 3: with music. They're just love her love of music.

739
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: But there's always that tension with a with A. I

740
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: think you don't realize it till you're down down the

741
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: road as far as we are. You want to provide

742
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: for your family, want to protect your family. So you're

743
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 1: working and you're working, and you're working and you're working,

744
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: and your attention does stay there and it's hard to

745
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: those check ins that you talked about.

746
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: You do kind of you know, you forget those and.

747
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: You say, oh, well the house is fine, Yeah, you know,

748
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: house is okay, this is my domain. I got to

749
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: just I got to go out and fight to kill

750
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: the dragons every day, right, And you do forget at times.

751
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 3: To you do like, I'm like, what do you mean?

752
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 3: Of course, I love you, I got your roof. I'm

753
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: this is fight or mentality, and there's nothing wrong with that.

754
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 3: But it's like, man, you just and it's just there's

755
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 3: so much, like there's a lot of great memories of

756
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 3: being on the road, but a lot of missed moments.

757
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 3: You know, like we were doing at one point doing

758
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: like three hundred and twenty three hundred thirty days a year,

759
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 3: like non stop. Wow, Now we only do about fifty

760
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 3: maybe sixty on a busy year.

761
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 2: Yeah that's a rough that's a rough skill.

762
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 3: Well but back then, but I mean now I had

763
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 3: to do it. Social media does the work. Then it's

764
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: every live room.

765
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: Right, you had to fill the room and get that's

766
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: how you go.

767
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 3: Virals. That crowd hopefully kill another crowd.

768
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: Wow, And okay, before we wrap, I have to ask

769
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: you some royal grande. I got questionnaire question I asked

770
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: these of everybody. They're rapid fire. Okay, don't think about Okay,

771
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 1: who's the person you most despise?

772
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, that person somebody on the Philadelphia Eagles. Just

773
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: pick I'm a fan.

774
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll leave that. That's a good answer. Who's the

775
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: person you most admire? M.

776
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 3: I mean it's always in Billy Graham, but I mean

777
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 3: I'm living. Yeah, and this sounds crazy. The guys in

778
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 3: my band are like the fact that we're still best

779
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: friends thirty two years later and I couldn't do it

780
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: without him, Like I just I'm saying, I'm blown away.

781
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 3: The most is our relationship and.

782
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: That's a big accomplishment to stay together that long. H

783
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: what's the best piece of advice you ever received.

784
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 3: As a parent. I'll give you two. As a parent.

785
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 3: You're gonna get it wrong. Just keep showing up and

786
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 3: the band never treat what's in front of you. As

787
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 3: a stepping stone to something bigger. And the fact is

788
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 3: that God has placed you and only you, no one

789
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 3: else in all of creation for that moment, whether it's

790
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 3: ten people or ten thousand, take advantage of it.

791
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: Wow, that's great. Yeah, that is fantastic. What do you

792
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: know that other people either don't know or have forgot?

793
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 3: Do I know?

794
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: What?

795
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: A question?

796
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: Yeah? What do you know that other people don't know

797
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 1: or perhaps never considered or have forgot?

798
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 3: On light side, that the bandylo will bring you more

799
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 3: joy than you realize, because it still does to me

800
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 3: every day. It's my favorite band ever. Okay, And I

801
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 3: forget just the taking the time to listen to an

802
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 3: entire album and just like everything is in bits and

803
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: it's such an ADHD society and it's like, and I'm

804
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: not saying because I make album, it's just the joy

805
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 3: of walking through a journey of a songwriter from beginning

806
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 3: to end is just a lost art. And I so agree.

807
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 3: And it's all about slowing down and go to the

808
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 3: baseball game live. You can steal time, but it's sitting

809
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 3: in the stands, like just slow down.

810
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 2: Well, people think I'm crazy.

811
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: When I got my Honda, I said you have to

812
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: wear the astros.

813
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: I said, I want to see deep player. There They're like,

814
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 2: see deep player.

815
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: I said, I want my CD player to do just

816
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: what I listened to my Sinatra albums from top to bottom.

817
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: Nat can call you know, Judy Garland, Ella Fitzgerald to

818
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: hear the continuation the story they meant to tell through

819
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: that album. You lose the songs if you don't hear

820
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 1: them in that context.

821
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 3: I think, is that your music? That's okay. So my

822
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 3: favorite era, my favorite group of all time. This is

823
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 3: what I would tell you forgot Go listen to the

824
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 3: Mills Brothers, all the Mills brother it's my favorite. Wow.

825
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: Like my grandmother like like like if I go to

826
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 3: my Apple Music or whatever, it shows you the most

827
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: played it's Mills Brothers by ten miles. Wow. Like all

828
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: of my kids know the words to every Mills.

829
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: Brothers because they give you it's a push for comfort food.

830
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 2: It's a cushion of calm.

831
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 3: Yes.

832
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: Yes, Dean Martin loved the Mills Brothers.

833
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 3: Oh yes, I know, yeah, I've seen him.

834
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the only time he blushes when you think

835
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: with the Mills Brothers.

836
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: And you see him going, oh, I can't believe up here.

837
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 3: So yeah, I love all of that music, like the

838
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 3: ink spots all that. I love it all. Wow.

839
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: What's your greatest fear?

840
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: I guess it doesn't doesn't hover over. My dad died

841
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: of cancer at forty eight. I'm fifty three, and so

842
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: I don't have my greatest fear. But it's the one

843
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 3: that that just I feel like I'm on borrowed time

844
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 3: a little bit.

845
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: What's your greatest regret?

846
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 3: My greatest regret? I wish I had started playing golf sooner.

847
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 3: I'm terrible at it.

848
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 2: Funny, I wish I'd never picked up a class. Well,

849
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 2: if you weren't doing this, what would you be doing.

850
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 3: I'm trying to play golf terrible. Now, I'm not a professional.

851
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: I love golf. I'm awful at it, but I love

852
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 3: the ideas. Everything I said about slow down and be

853
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 3: outside is golf. Wow. And nothing takes you through every

854
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 3: emotion in life in eighteen holes. You know, it's just

855
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 3: from euphoric to cursing fury.

856
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: Yes see, that's the part I don't like.

857
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: I know. I'd rather go for I know and talk

858
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: to somebody that golf it and I do find it

859
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: tedious I get very anxio.

860
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 2: You know, I'm in the car. I like driving a cart.

861
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 2: I don't like hitting the ball.

862
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. If I wasn't in music like right now, I

863
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 3: wouldn't have said this years ago. But just some doors

864
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 3: have opened to where like I've always I just have

865
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 3: a vivid imagination. I've written stories for years like I

866
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 3: thought would be a comic book guy. And so some

867
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 3: of those doors are opening on the TV movie side,

868
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 3: and so we're slowly you know, wow, And so that

869
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 3: that's if it stopped today, I would pursue that.

870
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, what happens when this is over?

871
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:03,439
Speaker 3: When all of this is over?

872
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: Your called?

873
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 3: Uh, well, well let's see. I'm going to go to

874
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 3: in and out Burger when this is over. Yeah, okay, one,

875
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 3: you see that's a good one. But when when it's over,

876
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 3: I'm going to see people that I have missed dearly

877
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 3: and uh and and just relish to hear to hear

878
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 3: Christ say well done. Yeah yeah, I just you know,

879
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 3: they say sleep and you're dead, I'll say I'll rest

880
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 3: when I'm dead. I can say that might it's just

881
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 3: an absolute rest. It's like you know, it's it's not

882
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 3: something I fear. It's just you know, yeah, yeah, I'm

883
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 3: all in.

884
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 2: Me too great to see you. What a joy, thank you,

885
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:47,959
Speaker 2: thank you, here's the whole.

886
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: I love that moment early on when Bart said he

887
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: kept writing I can only imagine, I can only imagine

888
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: it is notebook till it filled everything. And then years

889
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 1: later when he needed a song, when he was looking

890
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: for inspiration, it was literally on every page of his notebook.

891
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: Sometimes those deep pains in our lives are really God's

892
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: way of getting our attention and leading us to what

893
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: He really intends for us.

894
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: I hope you'll come back to a Royal Grande soon.

895
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: Why settle for a dry, constricted life when if you

896
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: fill it with wisdom and knowledge, it can flow into

897
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: a broad, thriving Arroyo Grande.

898
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 2: I'm raiming Arroyo.

899
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe like this episode, Thanks for diving in,

900
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time. A Royal Grande is

901
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 1: produced in partnership with Deep Peace Studios and iHeart Podcasts,

902
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: and is available on the iHeartRadio, Apple wherever you get

903
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: your podcasts