1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, 2 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much for 3 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: tuning in. That's our super producer, mister Max. Welcome back, Williams, 4 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: Welcome back, Welcome back, Welcome back. I love that theme 5 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: song for that, mister, Yes, yeah, you nailed it. Who 6 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: just nailed that? That's mister Noel Brown. They call me 7 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: Ben Bolden. This is our continuing series on the first 8 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: Ladies who weren't wives. Please check out our previous episodes 9 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: on this. And I'm excited about this one, NOL because, 10 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: as our research associate Jeff factor G. Bartlett revealed to 11 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:13,279 Speaker 1: us fairly recently in his research, there's one first lady 12 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: who just didn't want the job. 13 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: And that's right. 14 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 3: Indeed, he found this one particularly interesting, as did we. 15 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: As Jeff puts it, she was there, but she didn't care. Yeah. 16 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: She is called by various historians one of American histories 17 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: more obscure first ladies. Mary Arthur mice Elroy. She became 18 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: the executive hostess in eighteen eighty one because her brother 19 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: Chester A. Arthur was a widower, and he only became 20 00:01:53,680 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: president because James A. Garfield was assassinated, so she said, look, 21 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: I am not familiar with all the to dos and 22 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: the customs and the legacy requirements of the White House 23 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: when she got there. She's a middle aged mother of four. 24 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: She eventually does assimily, you could call it, and she 25 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: becomes known favorably for her New Year's galas and her 26 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: open house dinner receptions. She also gets by with a 27 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: little help from her friends. I had not heard of 28 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: this before. She enlists former first ladies to help her 29 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: figure out all the social norms and the fancy cues. 30 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: And those first ladies that she crowdsources with are Julia 31 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: Tyler and the aforementioned Harriet Lane. 32 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: So Mary Arthur McElroy or maybe McElroy either one, it's fine. 33 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: Her brother Chester A. 34 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 3: Arthur, was a widower when he became president in eighteen 35 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: eighty one, and his wife Ellen Nell Lewis Herndon, had 36 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 3: passed away sadly from pneumonia in eighteen eighty. Missus McElroy 37 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: agreed to become the White House hostess, though I don't 38 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 3: believe she was given the designation of First Lady right 39 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: off the rip out of respect for the passing of 40 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: Arthur's wife. 41 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was doing everything that a first lady 42 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: would do. But you're right, there was a matter of 43 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: There was a matter of necessity and a matter of respect. 44 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: They needed someone to fill that role during the busy 45 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: social season of the winter months, and in spring she 46 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: went back to i'll say it, her real family. She 47 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: was considered a general favorite at the White House. She 48 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: had to assume these social duties just really just to 49 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: help out her brothers. So we don't have to say 50 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: too much more about her, except one thing that stood 51 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: out to all of us. She did not want women 52 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: to vote. 53 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I thought I misread that when I first 54 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 3: started going through the brief, but it's true, and it 55 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 3: is indeed a bit of a head scratcher. 56 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she was. Also she was against temperance, which 57 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: makes her an interesting character. She was for the drink, 58 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: but against the vote. Yes, for the drink, against the vote. 59 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: She thought it was fine for lady and lad alike 60 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: to get soused in the White House, but she did 61 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: not want the ladies to vote, and it was part 62 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: of her extremely active civil life. She was notably active 63 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: in the Albany branch of the New York State Association 64 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: opposed to women's suffrage or as anyone knows, Missalves. 65 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: That's where I thought. 66 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 3: I made a little whoopsie when I was reading through it, 67 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 3: But that opposed very much part of this organization's mission. 68 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 3: Although mcelray served as her brother's first lady, she was, not, 69 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 3: of course, as we mentioned, given that formal recognition out 70 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 3: of respect for his wife. However, this did not hurt 71 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 3: her reputation. She was popular. Like he said, she was 72 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 3: a local favorite and quite the hostess with the mostest. 73 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 3: Her duties, however, were somewhat limited as the Arthur administration 74 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 3: wasn't as big on the social season as other administrations, 75 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 3: and this was out of deference to the late President Garfield. 76 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: And as we moved through history, we'll jump around a bit, 77 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: jump around, jump around. 78 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, see, that's fine, right, We'll. 79 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: Introduce you to another reluctant first lady, one who did 80 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: not care for the job, and that would be Andrew 81 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: Johnson's wife. Okay, Jeff woots it this way. She was there, 82 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: but she didn't care. She was also pretty sick, not 83 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: in the hip hop sense, and that didn't help. She 84 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: eventually passes the torch of first ladyship to their daughter 85 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: because she at some point, Eliza Johnson just doesn't want 86 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: to do it. She's just fed up with it. 87 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 3: And this is not to mention that his administration was 88 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 3: particularly fraught. Uh even refer to it as our buddies 89 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: at history dot Com do as embattled. She however, was 90 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 3: so publicly outwardly shy and kind of weedy and sickly 91 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: that she passed along most. 92 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 2: Of her duties. 93 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 3: Again, like you said, to her eldest daughter, Martha Johnson Patterson, 94 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,559 Speaker 3: and there was this kind of pall of mourning over 95 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 3: the whole proceedings, especially in the years leading up to 96 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 3: the Civil War and after Lincoln was assassinated. So Martha 97 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 3: kind of adopted, you know, conformed to the times and 98 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 3: took on this of restraint, modesty, and I don't know, 99 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 3: a little bit dourness, you know in the White House. 100 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because post Civil War, the nation is in mourning. 101 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: Many people have lost loved ones, and people are also 102 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: not too sure about the stability of the American experiment. 103 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: She did choose her words wisely. When she spoke in 104 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: public in eighteen sixty five, she said, look, we are 105 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: playing folks from Tennessee cold here by a national calamity. 106 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: I hope not too much will be expected of us. 107 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: She did some things that would speak to their Tennessee heritage. 108 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: In addition to managing social receptions, Martha installed milk cows 109 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: on the White House lawn. She redecorated the interior, which 110 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: seems to happen every time there's a new First Lady. 111 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: She got paintings of past presidents into a gallery. One person, 112 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: a member of staff, would later describe the President's daughter 113 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: as quote the real mistress of the White House. She 114 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: made no pretenses of any sort, but was always honest 115 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: and direct. 116 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 2: That's right. 117 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 3: She was the eldest child of Andrew and Eliza Johnson 118 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: and born in Tennessee on October the twenty fifth of 119 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 3: eighteen twenty eight. Her father served in Congress, and she 120 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 3: attended school in Georgetown, occasionally visiting the Polk the administration 121 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 3: the Polk White House. On December thirteenth of eighteen fifty five, 122 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 3: she got married to a gentleman by the name of 123 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 3: David Trotter Patterson, and they had two kiddos, Andrew Johnson 124 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 3: and Mary Bell. 125 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: In the preceding years and when her father did become 126 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: president somewhat unexpectedly, of course, not someone very much unexpectedly. 127 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: After Abraham Lincoln had that really rough night at the 128 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 2: theater that we always talk about in eighteen sixty five, 129 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: Martha was able to help out with some of these 130 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 2: first lady duties and responsibilities because her mother was so chronically. 131 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: Ill, and a lot of what they're doing at this point, 132 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: we could think of it as cleaning up the mess 133 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: after the bloody party of the Civil War. The White 134 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: House is in disarray, it's wrecked. It was a very 135 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: stressful time. Interesting note here and a bit of nepotism. 136 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: You'll notice that Martha's last name is Patterson. That's because 137 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: she married David Trotter Patterson, who himself was a member 138 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: of Congress. He served as a Senator from Tennessee from 139 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six until eighteen sixty nine, and this was 140 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 1: after Tennessee became the volunteer state became the first Confederate 141 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: state to be readmitted to the Union. Senator Patterson's duties 142 00:09:54,520 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: during the trial of Andrew Johnson's impeachment made the process 143 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: made the political process and the marriage process difficult for 144 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: the couple. Their relationship was fraught again to reuse that word, 145 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: because Martha was certain that the charges against her father 146 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: were false. By the time the Senate vote fell too 147 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:25,239 Speaker 1: short to convict Johnson on these impeachment charges, the Patterson 148 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: family was just tired of the circus we call Washington 149 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 1: d C. 150 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: She didn't what the job. 151 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: She helped clean up she left, which brings us to 152 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: another one. I think we're excited to talk about. Imagine 153 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: a first lady who felt like she didn't need a 154 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: husband at all. This is Rose Cleveland. 155 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 2: She was born in New York in eighteen forty six, 156 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: the youngest of Richard and Anne Cleveland, the youngest of 157 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 2: nine children, and the sister of future President Grover Cleveland 158 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: is a great name who is nine years older than 159 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 2: she was. Cleveland attended school at Houghton Seminary Religious School, 160 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: of course, and she taught school in Pennsylvania and New York. 161 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 2: And she was particularly interested and invested in literature. 162 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So her unmarried older brother becomes potus in 163 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty five President of the United States. Miss Cleveland 164 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: moves to Washington, where she's going to serve as first 165 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: Lady in practice, the White House hostess. She She spearheads 166 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: the traditional receptions, the dinners all that almost said flim 167 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: flammery will keep it, all that all that high to do. 168 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: And while she's doing this, she also finds time to 169 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: pursue her primary love, which is literature. By the time 170 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: she's been First Lady for just fifteen months, she's written 171 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: two books, one study of George Eliot's poetry and one 172 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: called You and I Moral Intellectual and social Culture. She 173 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: would much rather be someone who hangs out at a 174 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: book club or a salon instead of the you know, 175 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: sitting through the mindnus nattering of social gatherings. But when 176 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: she was called to serve, she did. Her receptions were 177 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: well attended, she was well liked, and she didn't have 178 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: to be First Lady for too long because our buddy 179 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: Grover gets hitched on June Tewod eighteen eighty six. He 180 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: marries Francis Fulsome and she takes over as the first 181 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: Lady proper. Everybody looks back on Rose Cleveland and unanimously agrees. 182 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: Contemporary accounts as well as the work of later historians. 183 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: They all agree that she had very little interest in 184 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: becoming the first Lady. She did it mainly to be 185 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: a good sister, to help out her older brother. And 186 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: she and she and she was so ready to scdattle. 187 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: She was probably the one pushing him into marriage, right 188 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: because she wanted to leave and write more books. 189 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 3: Yep, that is correct. Wasn't she one of the original 190 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 3: Bluestocking into it? Like folks that the whole blue Stocking society, 191 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: which I believe was like a literary circle. 192 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was more much more interested, we're 193 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: being honest, in pursuing scholarship and reading than she was 194 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: in hanging out with the crew of wives and the 195 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: wives of foreign dignitaries. I guess the best way to 196 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: say it candidly is it sounds like she was really 197 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: bored and she would just literally sit through these long 198 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: foreign meetups or these you know, these galas, and she 199 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: might not talk that much. She would just sit staring 200 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: off in the distance, and apparently she would conjugate Greek 201 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: verbs in her mind to pass the time. 202 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 203 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 3: It's like it's a much more intelligent version of like 204 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 3: playing sadoku or like tigging around on your phone, you know. 205 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 3: And during these meetings, she was not present, she was 206 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 3: miles away. 207 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: If there was a phone available at the time. If 208 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: smartphones were a thing, she would have been that person 209 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: who was on the phone during the conversation, which is, 210 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: by the way, huge rude, social social faux pa. 211 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: Folks, no question about it. Ben. 212 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: It was during these years that she started to work 213 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 3: on some books, some nonfiction works, George Eliot's Poetry and 214 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 3: Other Studies, which did go on to be published in 215 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: eighteen eighty five, as well as You and I, Moral, 216 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 3: Intellectual and Social Culture, which. 217 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: Was published in eighteen eighty six. 218 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: And here's a little bit of sauce with this historical sauce, 219 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: a little bit of us with the historical laudrey. Here 220 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: three years after Rose leaves the White House and is 221 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: no longer pinch hitting as first Lady, she meets a 222 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: wealthy thirty two year old widow named Evangeline Mars Whipple. 223 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: As you can tell, that's a name that commonly comes 224 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: with money. She's vacationing in Florida and they connect. They 225 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: begin exchanging love letters. In April eighteen ninety. We're getting 226 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: this from Smithsonian Magazine. By the way, her love letters 227 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: are donated to the Minnesota Historical Society. In nineteen sixty 228 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: nine by a relative of someone in Evangeline's family, Bishop 229 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: Henry Benjamin Whipple, and that's Evangeline's second husband. They didn't 230 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: get published until twenty nineteen, in a collection called Precious 231 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: and Adored. The Love Letters of Rose Cleveland and Evangeline 232 00:15:54,720 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: Simpson Whipple eighteen ninety to nineteen eighteen. We don't know 233 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: what Evangeline wrote to Rose, but we do know that 234 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: Rose quotes Evangeline a lot in those letters, and maybe 235 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: we could read just an excerpt of what the kind 236 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: of stuff Rose wrote to Evangeline. 237 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we definitely must. You are mine, she said, 238 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: and I am yours, and we are one, and our 239 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: lives are one. Henceforth, please God, who can alone separate us? 240 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: I am bold to say this, to pray and to 241 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: live it? Am I too? 242 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 3: Bold? 243 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: Eve? Tell me I shall go to bed Eve with 244 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: your letters under my pillow. Okay, got some longing being 245 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: expressed here, A little bit of longing. 246 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's classy longing. It's not James Joyce longing. 247 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 2: Oh God, it's like party princess things. 248 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 4: Side note. 249 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: Can I do a quick tangent here, guys? Yeah? 250 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us what you had a Garfield tangent. 251 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 2: Correct. 252 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 4: No, this is actually a tangent about something I texted 253 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 4: you all about. But when I was out West, I 254 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 4: met my my buddy Kev's longtime girlfriend Lizzie for the 255 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 4: first time, and within an hour I was telling her 256 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 4: about the James Joyce love letters. 257 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, you mentioned that. 258 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 2: Yes, BARTI Pourrincess Chris. 259 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: But what poetic descriptions of parts? 260 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's true. Very good fart pros, yeah, very good. 261 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 2: Can't deny that. 262 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, but we don't want to leave you without a 263 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: dope beat the step two. We have more that we 264 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: should get to. But Maxwell, we've got you on the 265 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: horn for some tangents. I believe there was also a 266 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: Garfield tangent you wanted to share. 267 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 4: Sure, and if you are willing, I have a bunch more, 268 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 4: but I'll rapid fire them, okay, because, as you guys know, 269 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 4: I'm the President's guys, so most importantly I want to stay. 270 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 4: This just looks at someone I've learned while working on 271 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 4: the show that Garfield was a really cool guy. Like 272 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 4: he really was, like his story is cool. He was 273 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 4: like really, like I have a resource brief coming up, 274 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 4: but he's like, you know, people always say, like you 275 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 4: should only elect a president who doesn't want the job. 276 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 4: There's flaws in that philosophy that. 277 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 2: Right. 278 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 4: Garfield was actually kind of that, like everyone was throwing 279 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 4: him under the bus for him to become president while 280 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 4: he was trying to get his friend to become president. 281 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: It's kind of. 282 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 4: Sad how he got how he got murdered in assassinated. 283 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 4: On the other hand, Arthur was a very unlikable guy. 284 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 4: Everyone hster Arthur. They his own party didn't put him 285 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 4: out for reelection. Talking about Andrew Johnson, he was a 286 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 4: survivor I believe of a try assassination attempt between him, Lincoln, 287 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 4: and mister Alaska himself, Sue Old, the Secretary of State, 288 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 4: because at the point they only went up three ways, 289 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 4: they took all three of them. 290 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: There will be no president. 291 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 4: Johnson gave him success because he was the only senator 292 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 4: of a succession state to show back up at. 293 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 2: A work after his state with the country. 294 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 4: And the last one about Johnson and I'll let you go. 295 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 4: It's true fact that we want to know how bad 296 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 4: of a person says. He is one of only two 297 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 4: presidents to not have a known pet. 298 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, out of only two, and you can guess 299 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: the second one. Imagine, yeah, you there's three now, yeah, okay, 300 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: Well be that as it may. The American experiment continues. 301 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: Everything you just heard Max say is factually accurate. 302 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 2: With what exception. 303 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: You were not the sole president guy here, mister Williams, 304 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: I would say we were all the President's Men. 305 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 2: You are nerds, We certainly are. You see the movie 306 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 2: All the President's Men. I haven't seen it. Hurt's great. 307 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. I don't recall 308 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: it in full clarity because it's been a while. You 309 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: know what I've been really on a kick on recently, 310 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: guys is spy films. John leckare just like Roald Dahl 311 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: is a fascinating character. He's the guy who wrote the 312 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: novels that inspired things like Teinker Taylor, Soldier Spy. 313 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 2: If you've seen that one for sure, and if you're 314 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 2: into that kind of stuff. 315 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 3: Ben and I'm not sure if we talked about this 316 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 3: or if you've seen it, but a recent movie that 317 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 3: kind of flew under a lot of people's radars but 318 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 3: was one of my favorite of the year. Black Bag, Yes, 319 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 3: a Steven Soderberg film that is very much in the 320 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 3: realm of a more modern. 321 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: Kind of tinker tailor thing. 322 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: Oh I love it. I've been on that kick so 323 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: hard for different reasons. You know, you fall in love 324 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: with the genre and it continues. And folks, we have 325 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: one more story to share with you. This is a 326 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: story that kind of makes up for our anti suffragette person. 327 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: We want to introduce you to Margaret Wilson, the daughter 328 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: of Woodrow Wilson, who actually was a suffragette, Thank goodness. 329 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: She did like the idea that all people should be 330 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: able to vote. 331 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 3: And Max has real feelings about Woodrow Wilson, if I 332 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 3: remember correctly, also a bit of a turd of a president. 333 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 4: He is a complicated president. He is he's all gas, 334 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 4: no breaks. Everything with his history is either really good. 335 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 2: Or really awful. I thought you hated his guts for 336 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: some reason. I do. I hate him as a person, yeah, but. 337 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: He's got a touch. 338 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 4: He was very influential in getting women the right to vote, 339 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 4: which was, if I remember quickly, in the amendments came 340 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 4: after the ability to elect senators, which also is in 341 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 4: the last one hundred plus years we became able to 342 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 4: elect our own senators. 343 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: He was also Yeah, he was also able to get 344 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: stuff done. So he was an effective navigator of at 345 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: times labyrinthine politics. 346 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 4: Which was even worse at that point in time because 347 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 4: he was a minority president elect because Teddy Roosevelt split 348 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 4: the Republican Party and he got in despite not being 349 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 4: like basically, if it would have been Teddy Roosevelt or 350 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 4: Taster run against him, he wouldn't have got elected. But 351 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 4: since it was both, he didn't get elected. 352 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, because third parties have a troubled history here in 353 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: the United States, and good lucky lot, keep it in, 354 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 1: keep it in. 355 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: So this. 356 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: Person, Margaret Wilson, as we noted, she is not the 357 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: spouse of Woodrow Wilson. She is his daughter. She assumes 358 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: the role of White House hostess after her mother passes 359 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: away in nineteen fourteen. So again we see a lot 360 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: of family members having this position foisted upon them due 361 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: to tragedy, right, due to a spouse dying. So she 362 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: is twenty eight years old picture picture almost like an 363 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: Oma Lee esque character. She's known for being free spirited 364 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: and she doesn't like authoritarianism. She doesn't love the patriarchal 365 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: rules of the day. She only holds the post of 366 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: first lady for a few months, and eventually she says, Ugh, 367 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: this is too stuffy, this is not for me. I'm 368 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: gonna pursue my dream of being a soprano vocalist. 369 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly. 370 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 3: When President Wilson became engaged to his second wife, Edith 371 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 3: in nineteen fifteen, Margaret stepped aside to follow that very 372 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 3: dream right and began traveling the world across Europe to 373 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 3: perform for the troops in World War One. She also 374 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 3: later worked in advertising and lobbied for several social causes 375 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 3: that were near and dear to her, but she is 376 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: best known, most likely for her love of Eastern philosophy 377 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 3: and in Hinduism and meditation and mindfulness. So before she 378 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 3: passed away in nineteen forty four, she got so obsessed 379 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 3: with the work of a particular guru named Shri Aro 380 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 3: Bindu that she moved to India to live in his 381 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: commune or astrom. 382 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was very I'm so interested in the 383 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: fact that not only was she a social activist with 384 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: a lot of daring do for a person or position 385 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: at the time, but she also had that madman's streak 386 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: where she's working in advertising. That's crazy cool. As of 387 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: this point in history, she's only the second first lady 388 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: to explicitly support women's suffrage, the first being, of course, 389 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: Helen Heron Taft. And with that, folks, we see that 390 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: despite the narrative that the United States tells itself, there 391 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: are a lot of quote unquote first ladies who were 392 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: not in fact spouses. And that's cool, that's kind of 393 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's hidden history necessarily, but it is 394 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: history that we forget and it's important to remember, especially 395 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: as the country continues. Spoiler, folks, we all reside in 396 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: the US most of the time. Where as a nation, 397 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: we're looking at a world where there may be a 398 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: first gentleman, right, We're looking at a world where the 399 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: old constraints of marriage and the so called nuclear family 400 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: are increasingly being interrogated, and perhaps or I would argue 401 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: this is for the betterment of society overall. It's weird. 402 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 3: It is one of those things that has kind of 403 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: maintained that sort of stuffy, you know, historical tradition kind 404 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 3: of thing. But with a lot of current politics, we 405 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 3: certainly see a lot of tradition getting thrown out the window, 406 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: not always for the better. 407 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 2: So I would love to see a world where we 408 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 2: have a first gentleman, Ben. 409 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm with you there, Noel, I don't want the job, 410 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: but I would also. 411 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: You know, you're my first gentleman, you're. 412 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: By first gentleman, and. 413 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 2: Oh god, he's nobody's first anything kid. It's fun. 414 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: I also just decide. Note, since we're at the end 415 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: of the show, I also wonder what would happen if 416 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: there was ever like a polyamorous president elected. A lot 417 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: of them were polyamorous in practice but not a name. 418 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: So what if they're like president? Right, we've had those, 419 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 2: We've definitely had us. 420 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: What if there's a thruple? What if a president is 421 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: part of a thruple? And then they have to do 422 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: they rock scissors? 423 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 2: Paper? 424 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: Do they do a Rochambeau for who gets to be 425 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: the first lady? H story for another day. Big thanks, 426 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: of course to our super producer mister Max Williams. Big 427 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Blister, as well as 428 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: the legendary Alex Williams who composed. 429 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 3: This bop indeed, and huge thanks to Christopher Haciotis and 430 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 3: Eves Jeff Coates here in spirit. 431 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: Big big thanks, of course to the rude dudes over 432 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: a ridiculous crime. If you dig our show, you'll dig 433 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: theirs like a grave kidding. 434 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 2: It is one of the. 435 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: Only true crime shows out there that is ninety nine 436 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: percent murder free, so check it out. It's fun for 437 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: the adults and some of the older kiddos alike. In 438 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: the meantime, tune in next week we're going to be 439 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: exploring even more ridiculous history. No did you? I think 440 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: we talked about it offline, but one of my favorite 441 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: recent classic episodes we published was the story of Old 442 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: Knife Hands. 443 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 2: Old Knife Hands, the knife test of hands. Did he 444 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 2: have It's true? Yeah? 445 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 3: D check that one out. Was he like a mummy 446 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 3: or something? 447 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 2: What was this? Superhor It was. 448 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: A corpse discovered where his hand had been amputated and 449 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: they put a knife on it. 450 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, why not? Let's see next ep focus. For 451 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 452 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.