WEBVTT - And, This is How Conflict Sells Tickets With Dr. Phil 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:15.760 This is Gavin Newsom and this is doctor Phil McGrath. Well, 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.160 I appreciate you coming on, doctor Phil, and it's I've 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.200 been eager to have this conversation because I've been watching 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:26.000 a number of your conversations. You've been having very public conversations, 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.400 but also just in the media and obviously now with 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.960 your own new Merritt Street media enterprise. It's really interesting 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.440 to read the punditry and try to read between the lines. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.120 What's doctor Phil up to? Is this a big shift 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.240 to the right or is he just self actualizing a 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.599 little bit more in terms of his personal points of view? 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.560 Or is it completely consistent with the person we watched 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:56.400 for twenty one years on Daytime TV. What's your overall 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:01.160 sentiment around the independent analysis of pun entry about all 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:02.080 things doctor Phil? 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.680 Right now, Well, you know, Governor, I'm glad you asked 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.880 that question because I have to say I'm probably the 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:16.319 least political person I know, although I have certainly been 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:24.040 painted with that brush of late and not completely hard 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:28.919 to understand. But and I say that I'm not political 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:37.840 because I deal with cultural issues, psychosocial issues, and I 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:44.520 differentiate that from politics because frankly, I'm not very sophisticated 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.720 in the political arena. I don't know a lot about it, 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.000 you know. I can watch that after school special about 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:56.000 how a bill becomes a law in all of that, 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.480 and I learned something every time I watch it again, 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:06.120 and I'm not I'm not. That's not false humility. I 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:14.680 really don't understand politics. I certainly don't understand geopolitics on 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:22.639 the international stage, and I really don't seek to. I 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:29.960 really am focusing on cultural issues, and politicians talk about 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.480 cultural issues a lot, and so that creates an intersection 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:39.799 of content and values. And to me, when I'm focusing 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:45.160 on those issues, those values, I could care less whether 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:51.760 somebody is a Democrat or a Republican. I'm not sure 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.440 there's a whole lot of difference when we really boil 0:02:54.520 --> 0:03:00.520 it down to where people really stand. I don't think 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:06.040 we're nearly as divided as I think the legacy media 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.280 would lead us to believe we are. And so really, 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:16.040 I'm of a strong belief that the strength of any culture, 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:20.920 any society lies in the family. And I think family 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:26.440 and family values have been under attack in America. I 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.360 wrote a book in two thousand and four called Family First, 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.960 and I said in that book that I thought family 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:37.840 in America was under attack, and I certainly think family 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:45.480 values have been increasingly under attack. And admittedly a lot 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:49.880 of that attack I think is coming from the extreme left, 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:54.760 from what I think are the what I call the 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:59.720 tyranny of the fringe. It's not really mainstream America on 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:05.240 either side of the aisle. I think it's from really 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:11.920 extreme activists, and I don't think they really represent the 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.560 mainstream on either side of the aisle. So I think 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.640 it's I think we've got the tail wagon the dog 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.800 on a lot of these cultural issues. To tell you 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:23.880 the truth, I appreciate it. 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.200 I want to go back to you your consistency on 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:32.680 the notion of family and the challenges there. And I'm 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.240 curious just you know, over the last few decades, I 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.440 imagine people tried to pull you in twenty years ago, 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.640 pull you into their campaigns, pull you into their rallies, 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.640 pull you into their point of view. You know, were 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:50.440 you were you tempted ten years ago to find your 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.039 way into this or if you really always tried to 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.880 sort of maintain a status above and you know, sort 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:57.839 of separate and above. 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.039 I've always tried to stay out of it. You know, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.279 people made a lot of it when I went to 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.320 the Trump rally at Madison Square Garden, you know, this 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:14.760 time around. But if people listen to what I said, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:23.240 I started my comments and remarks during that appearance by saying, 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.520 I'm not here to endorse President Trump. I don't agree 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:33.559 with everything he says or everything he does. I said. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.520 The first things out of my mouth. If you go 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.760 back and listen to what I said, is I'm not 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.520 here to endorse him. I don't agree with everything he 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:46.080 says and does. What I don't like is people bullying 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:52.360 those and ostracizing those who do support and say they're 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.039 going to vote for him. And I said, I'll give 0:05:55.600 --> 0:06:01.320 this identical speech at a Harris rally and volunteered to 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.760 do so. And they actually contacted me and talk to 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:10.719 me about doing exactly that, and I said, absolutely, let 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.800 me know when, let me know where. I gave them 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.000 all the contact information to set it up, and then 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:19.400 they didn't follow up on it after that. But I 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:23.159 wanted to speak at that one of those events as well. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.599 I think we need to talk to each other. I 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.880 think we need a dialogue that we're not having and 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.240 if we stay in our bubble. I don't think we're 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.640 ever going to get a unity in this country. 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.560 And I appreciate that. I will say, having listened to 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.680 the speech, I don't think you would have referred to 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:48.719 Kamala as a tough old boot. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:54.719 No, I wouldn't have done that. I would changed that line, 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:55.520 for sure, change it. 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:57.120 There'd be a few lines by the way. 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:58.640 Was that was it? 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.279 Was it the President himself reached out directly to you 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.720 to get you to speak at that rally, or was 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.680 it members of the campaign team. Were they aggressively seeking 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:07.720 your participation? 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:15.920 They were? And you know, I had already interviewed President Trump, 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:20.440 and I've known him for twenty years. I haven't spent 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.720 a lot of time with him, but I've known him 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:28.080 for a long time, and i'd interviewed him for my 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:33.160 show in the past and had known him, like I say, 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.760 not well, but had known him personally away from television 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:41.680 and away from all that. But his team asked me 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:46.480 to come and interview him. And I had asked to 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.240 interview him when he was during running his campaign, and 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.520 he agreed, And then they asked me to make an 0:07:53.520 --> 0:08:00.000 appearance there and I said I would, but I'll decide 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.960 what I say, and it will probably be different from 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:07.440 what you hear from everybody else. And they said, that's okay. 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.720 They agree, No, well, it's I mean, it's it's you know, 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.640 the answer is no unless you ask. And I certainly 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.600 appreciate the fact that they were able to diversify the 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.840 number of voices that were participating in not only those rallies, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.640 but you know, some a little more toxic than others, 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:26.880 including at that rally sort of infamously. 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.200 But some how about you are you going to run 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:31.080 in twenty eight. 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.800 Just you're jumping right into that. I want to jump 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.120 first though, into what you just launched, which was Merritt 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:43.079 Street Media. And so after twenty one ridiculously successful years 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.000 running your own show, you decided to move and did 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:49.920 this pivot, and you did it as well writing a 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:51.880 book that goes to a lot of the issues that 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.199 you're raising, including on the issue of family, called We've 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.760 Got Issues. But tell us a little bit more, because 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.760 I'm not sure everybody is fully familiar with this larger 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.360 media company, not just sort of the work you're doing 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.480 as a host yourself, but what you're trying to achieve 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:08.520 it in Merritt Street. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:15.640 Well, you know, I did spend twenty one years at CBS, 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:20.960 and I have to say it's was a wonderful experience 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:30.480 and I made wonderful relationships at CBS. It'll forever be 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.800 a warm place in my heart. And got nothing but 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:41.320 good things to say about my experience there. I was 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:48.040 led their daytime lineup. Of course, it was syndicated, so 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.400 they weren't all CBS stations, but that was my primary 0:09:52.000 --> 0:10:01.440 station group. I had great primetime shows on CBS as well, 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.959 and they're working on some with them now we're still 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:11.600 in business together. But I wanted to do more than that. 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:19.120 I felt like an hour a day was not enough 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.600 time to really do the things that I felt like 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.720 I wanted to do because I was not comfortable and 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.400 was very troubled by a lot of what I was 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:35.920 seeing going on in this country. And I'll tell you 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:41.040 a story. I was sitting in our kitchen in California, 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.760 where we were living at the time, and I was 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.360 flipping back and forth. Robin and I were sitting there 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:48.560 having dinner, and we were kind of flipping back and 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.600 forth and going from one kind of news channel to 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.000 another news channel to another news channel, and I was 0:10:55.080 --> 0:11:01.280 really frustrated by saying, you know, this is so much propaganda, 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:06.079 so much spin, you can't really tell. You'd be on 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.400 one channel and flip to another and they're talking about 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.440 the same events or incidents, and you can't even tell 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:16.360 they're talking about the same thing. Amen, because they're spending 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.199 it so much. Yep. And I said, you know, this 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.760 just drives me crazy. The media is driving me crazy. 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.800 Why won't they just tell you what happened? And without 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.800 even looking up dinner, she said, well, why don't you 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.600 do something about it? You are the media, And she said, 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.480 your ratings are bigger than both of them combined. Why 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.439 don't you do something about it? And that was really 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:45.560 the genesis of it, because I wanted to own the 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.040 debate lane in America. I wanted to have a platform 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:54.040 where I could bring two sides together, or three sides 0:11:54.160 --> 0:12:00.200 or four sides if necessary, to give people the facts 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.440 and let them make up their own mind. And you know, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:09.080 because it's such a big issue in California, homelessness, for example, 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:16.120 there are more than two sides to homelessness. People have 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.760 different theories about how to resolve this. You know, why 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:25.920 is housing so expensive? Do you do home first? Or 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:29.040 do you work on getting people back on their feet 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:34.520 and they earn their right to be given housing and 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:39.440 shelter or is that a fundamental human right? You know, 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.200 there are different sides to those issues. You think, well, 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.200 you know, how could you be debating over that? But 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:50.800 they're hugely passionate different sides on even that issue. And 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.600 I do give both sides a chance to talk about that, 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.200 and we have great and intelligent decisions. You know. Right now, 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:09.120 this is Israeli Palestinian conflict. I've taken very bold positions 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:16.840 on that, and it is astounding to me. I'm hearing 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:21.200 things on our college campuses that I never thought I 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.600 would hear in my lifetime. The anti Semitism that I'm 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:30.840 hearing and I have given a platform to. At one 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.560 time it was pro Palestinian, now it's pro Hamas. Is 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:40.120 just straight up demonstrations in favor of a terrorist group 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.200 that has killed forty eight Americans since its formation in 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:49.840 the early nineteen eighties. And I find that difficult to understand. 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.800 How we have young American. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.960 Students violating the two conflating. 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.200 Protesting for Hamas, which is a terrorist group that has 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.520 killed Americans and until recently was holding American hostages. They 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.959 still have four that are not alive, but the last 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:12.120 American hostage was just released in he Don Alexander and 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.880 I spoke with his parents the next morning on the 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:20.000 air and had a wonderful celebratory interview with them. And 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.840 I'm hearing things on these campuses that tell me that 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.960 we're just not teaching critical thinking among our young people anymore, 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.200 and that's very troubling to me. So and I've given 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.920 a voice to those and been criticized for given a 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.400 voice to the pro Palestinian pro Hamas side, but I 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.920 think people need to hear what they think and how 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.680 committed they are and how misguided I believe they are. 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.800 But I do give them a voice so people understand 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:49.760 what we're up against. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:59.560 Not that I've stress tested what you've been saying along 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.320 these lines, not specific to the conflict in the Middle East, 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.800 but more broadly about trying to find a lane of 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.480 a little bit more balance. I watched specifically your one 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.240 hundred day analysis of the Trump administration, and I thought 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.920 it was extraordinarily fair. You made some points that were, 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.920 you know, were very not revelatory to me, but I 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.760 thought important to make, particularly on the issue of immigration, 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.720 of which you've received criticism. At the same time, you're 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.920 hardly anti immigrant, but you made a point on that 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.520 One hundred Day show that I think underscores the point 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.359 you're trying to make, and that is what is omitted 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:41.120 often in our discourse, particularly in some of these platforms 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.320 and these cable shows, is the fact that the Biden 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:47.600 administration was deporting has been at least through a period 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.560 that marked I think around February more people being deported 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.880 on the Biden administration, even the Trump administration, not something 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:58.360 you see necessarily on some of these cable shows in 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.320 order to sort of highlight and reinforce the importance of 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:08.280 not just misinformation or disinformation, but what is omitted from 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:09.080 our conversation. 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:15.840 Now. Listen, we're embedded with ICE and they've allowed us 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.440 full access at Merit TV. And let me tell you, 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:24.960 when I say full access, there are no guidelines now there. 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.840 To be completely fair, there are some rules in terms 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:36.880 of not disclosing certain investigatory techniques that they have, but 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:42.360 other than not disclosing things that might put agents' lives 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:49.080 in danger, there are no rules. We can show every case. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:54.760 They're not cherry pick cases. And we're able to show 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:59.600 everything that is going on. And I just watched the 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.680 MISCA characterization, and I've come to know Tom Homan very well. 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:10.120 This is a very sincere and compassionate man. And they 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.120 have three primary goals. Number one is the worst. First, 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:19.720 they talk about these cable networks, talk about their going 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:24.200 in and sweeping neighborhoods and kind of anybody with a 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:28.240 ten is subject to getting picked up. That is absolutely 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.200 not true. I have seen that they are going after 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.040 the worst. First, that they build a file, they know 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:39.439 where these people are, they know what they're guilty of doing, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:46.040 and they target them. These are targeted arrest warrants that 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:52.080 they're executing and taking these people out. So that's their 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.240 number one goal. They wanted to close the border. They've 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.359 effectively done that. And then number three is to find 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:02.439 them missing children, because there are hundreds of thousands of 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:07.840 children that have gone missing. Many are known to be 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.560 sold into the sex trade or the forced labor trade, 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.520 and those children need to be rescued. Now, some of 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.320 them have found their way to family that is already here, 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.840 but I fear there are probably a couple of hundred 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:29.280 thousand that are being forced into lives that are horrendous 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.400 and that they don't want to be in, and those 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.040 are their three primary objectives. And I hear they're just 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:42.120 outright misinformation about what they're doing. And if you've seen 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.440 interviews I've done with Tom Homan, I ask him straight up, 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.800 are you raiding schools and taking children out of school 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.680 so they can be deported? Are you sitting on doctors' 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.679 offices and hospitals to catch these people when they go 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.360 to get healthcare? Or are you going after the worst first? 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.919 And I asked the hard questions and they give me 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:10.000 straight up answers and the support for those answers. I'm 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:14.120 very pro immigration. Look, our birth rate has dropped below 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:20.239 what we need infrastructure wise. I mean to sustain our 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:22.520 infrastructure here, we need a birth rate of two point 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:26.480 one and we've dropped to a little below one point six. 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:30.600 We better get immigrants into this country. We need the talent, 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:35.960 we need, the diversity, we need the headcount and the 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:41.760 birth rate. We desperately need immigrants in this country. But 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:43.600 there's the right way and the wrong way to do it. 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.439 I look at America as my home, and I wouldn't 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.880 let anybody into my house if I didn't know who 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:54.080 they were, would you. I don't think anybody would. But 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:56.879 we've done that. We've let millions of people into this 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.399 country without knowing who they are, and clearly some of 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:04.560 those are on a terror watch list and they're here now. 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:10.760 And I think everything you said, dark phillis I think 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.399 the vast majority of people would find particularly rational. But 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.240 you have to acknowledge. And I don't say this lightly. 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:19.760 I say this with intimate familiarity. I mean, we've had 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.240 quote unquote wellness checks in the public schools. We've had 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.040 some folks that are going to immigration courts that are 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.719 being picked up in and around immigration courts. There's been 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.479 a chilling impact across the country, not just in states 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.040 like California, but a lot of day laborers picked up 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:39.280 in California way a federal judge intervene under a lawsuit 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:44.560 and actually admonished some of the border patrol for their 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.960 activities and respect to that or or ice. But I 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:54.600 do I do appreciate there's intensity of anxiety and a 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:59.080 lot of rhetoric that is thrown around that is not nuanced. 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.679 And I don't know that the president himself is aiding 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:06.280 and embedding and finding some common ground here uses some 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.439 pretty extreme language, which I think kind of chills the 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:13.399 conversation and chills I think our capacity to sort of 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.080 find some common ground on legitimate concerns around border security 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.399 and thoughtful and comprehensive strategies to get the best in 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:23.080 the brightest from around the world. 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:25.760 Well, I think there's the right way and the wrong 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:29.080 way to get into the country. And I don't think 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.000 these people are being picked up that are here legally, 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.119 And if they are here legally, then they don't have 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.000 anything to worry about. If they came in illegally, not 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:43.199 at a point of entry, then they are subject to 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:45.879 being removed. That in and of itself is a crime, 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:46.320 is it not? 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.560 No, And I'm not denying that, But are you asked? 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:51.480 I mean, and again, I'm now looking to get a 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:56.159 debate about immigration policy. I'm just seeing some nuance in 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:58.000 terms of the language, and I think some of the 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.719 rhetoric and the reality on the ground. As someone that 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.080 is on the ground addressing some of that reality, it's 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:08.000 not just the worst first. It may be that may 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.439 be the policy, but that's not necessarily the practice as 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:15.000 it relates to those that are here without documentation. I mean, 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.399 you know, you've got folks from nuke Ingridge that was 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:21.640 supporting amnesty in nineteen eighty five, Reagan himself that did 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:25.800 the amnesty bill shortly thereafter, and U And obviously we've 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:27.920 got to address those that have been here for decades. 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.040 I don't imagine we want to get all of them 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.840 because they're quot on here illegally and send them and 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:36.600 support them all back. I'm not imagine you're arguing for that. 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:41.919 Well, but here's the thing if if, and let me 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:46.560 argue another side of this, We've got an immigration court 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:52.440 that is horribly dysfunctional. Yeap takes seven eight years. Yeah, 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:56.439 ridiculous court date, and that is a broken system. We 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:57.480 need to fix. 0:22:57.320 --> 0:22:58.560 That one hundred percent. 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:03.240 When you've got somebody that maybe they have a legitimate reason, 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:06.960 a compelling reason to get out of their home country 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:14.480 for safety reasons, for fear of violence from gangs or whatever, 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:17.359 and so they make applications in the United States and 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:20.720 we say, great, you know, here's a here's a court 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:28.200 date in twenty thirty two. Well, I'm sorry, I got 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:30.679 people coming by my house threatening to cut off my 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:34.880 arms and legs on a daily basis. Twenty thirty two 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:38.000 doesn't really work for me. We've got to fix that. 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:42.000 I want one hundred percent acknowledge that. The other hand, 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:45.680 if we've got people that are here illegally, they're either 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:49.840 here legally or they're not here legally, and so we 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:53.160 have to take some ownership in the fact that we've 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.920 got a broken system for getting process into this country. 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:00.359 Doesn't change the fact that we have people that are 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:05.080 here illegally, and most of them are not fleeing they're 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:09.760 here fleeing violence. They're here for economic reasons, and this 0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:13.680 is the greatest country in the world. Of course, if 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:17.679 I was in El Salvador or somewhere and had a 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:21.080 dirt floor and pennies a day for wages, would I 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:23.480 want to be in America? Of course I would want 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:26.440 to be in America. We've got to do some things 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:29.879 on our end to make this more functional. But I 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:37.040 agree with that, and I hate these sanctuary guidelines where 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:40.800 they will not cooperate with ICE agents to get someone 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:45.199 that is currently in custody, which means they've broken the 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:49.720 law and local law enforcement has had reason to pick 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:56.080 them up and detain them. If you tell ICE about that, 0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:59.160 and they can come get them and take them out. 0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:01.680 At that point, you're going to have a whole lot 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:04.520 less of the people you're talking about get arrested when 0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:07.480 they go into the community. Then you have one ice 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:11.440 agent on one bad actor and they're gone. If they 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:14.960 have to go into the neighborhood, they're going to arrest 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:18.240 that person and they're going to check everybody that's around them. 0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:20.399 And that's as. 0:25:19.640 --> 0:25:22.320 You knew, doctor Phil. I mean in California, I can 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.480 only speak for myself as governor. We've cooperated in that 0:25:25.600 --> 0:25:29.000 respect with folks that are in custody in state prisons. 0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:34.320 Over ten thousand specific gamples of that kind of cooperation. 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:36.720 So not a lot of daylight on that. I guess 0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:39.520 I'm just more concerned about the larger rhetoric that everyone's 0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:42.320 here quote unquote illegally, which I get on the technical terms, 0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:44.280 but the notion of what the heck we do about it. 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:47.600 I agree with you on comprehensive need for a comprehensive reforms. 0:25:47.600 --> 0:25:50.520 I think the asylum system is broken. There's been all 0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:55.679 kinds of bills rejected by both parties to address this issue. 0:25:55.720 --> 0:26:00.360 There was a bipartisan immigration package that Rubio himself many 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:04.080 others support it to deal with immigration backlogs and judges 0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:06.760 and address some of those concerns, but they seem to 0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:10.399 get just watered down or eliminated because of the toxicity 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:13.560 of our politics. And that's my concern now is how 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:15.600 the hell do we soften that edge, which I think 0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:18.719 you want so we can find unity and common ground 0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:21.479 and unify the country, which you talk a lot about. 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:24.560 But how do we begin to do that in a 0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:27.600 more rational way? I mean, I think rhetoric still matters, 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:28.720 does it not. 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:34.040 Words are powerful, Yeah, words are absolutely powerful. And you 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:41.000 know when I see things happening, and I see a 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:46.720 lot with the death threats and hate speech and rhetoric 0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:51.399 that I get when I come out and condemn what 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:54.040 happened on October seventh in Israel. 0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:57.399 Yeah, and by the way, just for the record, I 0:26:57.440 --> 0:27:01.600 flew to Israel right after the seventh and met with leadership. 0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:06.240 We actually brought a hospital, a field hospital with us, 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:09.800 So I appreciate that condemnation. I want to make that clear. 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:12.560 Well, and I know you made that trip, and I 0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:15.120