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Speaker 1: Welcome to zero. I am Akshatrati. This week, can Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden electrify America? I'm in Seattle this week at the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Green Festival. It's been a hectic few days of conversations, demonstrations,

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Speaker 1: experiences all to shape the future of the planet. There

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Speaker 1: was science, arts, technology, culture, and real solutions that you

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Speaker 1: can see, touch, feel, and even taste. But it all

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Speaker 1: happened in a week where one thing on everyone's mind

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Speaker 1: is whether or not Joe Biden can continue as the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party's presidential candidate following a series of shaky public appearances.

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Speaker 1: So even as we had rich conversations about the environment,

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Speaker 1: politics was unavoidable. You know, this is an existential challenge.

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Speaker 2: It's the difference between a chance to arrest this horrific

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Speaker 2: train coming down the tracks or letting it run over us.

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Speaker 2: That's the issue in these federal elections.

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Speaker 1: The climate stakes of this election could not be higher.

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Speaker 1: That was a cast of top Democrats, Gina McCarthy, who

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Speaker 1: was the former White House National Climate Advisor, Washington State

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Speaker 1: Governor Jay Insley, as well as Sally Jewell, former Secretary

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Speaker 1: of the Interior. McCarthy, who once was the Environmental Protection

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Speaker 1: Agency administrator had a little more to say about whether

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden should stay in the race. She suspected he

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Speaker 1: himself was reconsidering whether to run, but no matter what

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Speaker 1: his decision, she said, he had already earned a place

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Speaker 1: in history as America's climate president. The question of whether

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Speaker 1: Biden's legacy on climate is enough was on my mind too.

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Speaker 1: That matters for America's decarbonized future and for voters weighing

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Speaker 1: up their choices this November, and it is something I

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Speaker 1: got to ask voting rights advocate and former Georgia governor

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Speaker 1: candidate Stacy Abrams. One of Stacy's jobs is with the

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Speaker 1: nonprofit called Rewiring America. It is led by Obama administration

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Speaker 1: veteran Ari Matusiak. Rewiring America has been focused on getting

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Speaker 1: Americans to reduce their household emissions, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: their work centers around making sure people know about the

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Speaker 1: tax breaks in the Inflation Reduction Act and how that

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Speaker 1: can make things like heat pumps and electric vehicles more affordable. Arie,

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Speaker 1: Stacy and I talked about why household emissions are such

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Speaker 1: a big deal, how to connect existential questions about the

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Speaker 1: future of the planet to kitchen table decisions, and of

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Speaker 1: course we talked about Joe Piden and just a note,

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Speaker 1: this was recorded live in Mccawhall in Seattle. As you'll hear,

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Speaker 1: it was a lively audience, small children and all. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to zero and welcome to the Bloomberg Green Festival. Now, Ari,

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Speaker 1: let's start with a simple proposition. When you think about

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Speaker 1: climate solutions, one way to think about them is that

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Speaker 1: we need to electrify more and more of our lives,

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Speaker 1: and we need to produce that electricity as carbon free

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Speaker 1: as possible, ideally fully carbon free, very soon. It's not

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Speaker 1: going to solve all our problems, but it gets us

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Speaker 1: damn close. So could you talk us through what rewiring

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Speaker 1: America's biggest successes have been because you were trying to

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Speaker 1: get electrification to people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me and

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Speaker 2: for hosting this conversation. I think the thing that is

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Speaker 2: really not known to people about the damn close part

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Speaker 2: is that forty two percent of our energy related emissions

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Speaker 2: come from basically five decisions that we make at our

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Speaker 2: kitchen tables, maybe six kind of cars you drive, how

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Speaker 2: you heat air and water in your homes, how you

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Speaker 2: cook your food, dry your clothes, maybe whether you get

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Speaker 2: solar on your rooftop. That's forty two percent of our

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Speaker 2: energy related emissions. Those kitchen table decisions are really, for

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Speaker 2: the most of us, the largest climate impact we will

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Speaker 2: have in our lives, or have the opportunity to have.

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Speaker 2: And so there is this really incredible opportunity to shift

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Speaker 2: the locust of agency and power to the kitchen table.

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Speaker 2: And what we've been trying to do with Rewiring America

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Speaker 2: is tell that story and then empower households in those

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Speaker 2: kitchen table decision through a combination of policy incentives and

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Speaker 2: tools that they can use to actually make those decisions

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Speaker 2: the easy ones to go forward with and get the

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Speaker 2: benefits of in the process.

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Speaker 1: And so far, what have been your biggest successes.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's not our success alone, certainly, but the Inflation

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Speaker 2: Reduction Act was something that we were really involved with

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Speaker 2: in shaping because what we recognized was that the upfront

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Speaker 2: costs of these better electric machines are too expensive still

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Speaker 2: for too many households, and so the Inflation Reduction Act

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Speaker 2: has a lot of these kitchen table incentives for people

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Speaker 2: that could be as much as a half a trillion

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Speaker 2: dollars going two households over the next decade, and we

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Speaker 2: were very involved in shaping that.

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Speaker 1: And Stacey now working on energy and environment issues is

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Speaker 1: not something that's new to you. It goes as far

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Speaker 1: back as your senior thesis in college, I understand, and

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Speaker 1: of course it's featured in your work in public office

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Speaker 1: and your campaigns. Now with Rewiring America for over a year,

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Speaker 1: what are the biggest barriers that you still see are

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Speaker 1: remaining in trying to get people to recognize that electrifying

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Speaker 1: their lives is beneficial to them, even before it is

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Speaker 1: beneficial to the planet.

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Speaker 3: I think the challenge is not convincing people it's beneficial.

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Speaker 3: It's convincing people it's accessible. Because for the low income,

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Speaker 3: moderate income families that are facing this challenge, they hear

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Speaker 3: the specter of climate action, but they often see the

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Speaker 3: behavior of people who are wealthier, who can afford to

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Speaker 3: make choices, and so often it feels like sacrifice. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't feel like progress. And I think the important piece

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Speaker 3: of the work Rewiring has done, the incredible investment that

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Speaker 3: comes from the Inflation Reduction Act is that it shifts

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Speaker 3: the conversation from one of can I afford it? To

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Speaker 3: how do I get it. When people get to make

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Speaker 3: decisions that benefit their lives, they are much more likely

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Speaker 3: to do so. We like getting stuff, and people like

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Speaker 3: being cooler in the summer, they like being warmer in

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Speaker 3: the winter, they like their power bills going down. And

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Speaker 3: what we have to do is actually create the space

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Speaker 3: for them to understand that's doable. For the first time,

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Speaker 3: you mentioned that I have been working on these issues

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Speaker 3: for a very long time. Most people aren't aware that

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Speaker 3: that's part of my portfolio. But I grew up in

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Speaker 3: southern Mississippi. I grew up near cancer Alley in Louisiana.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in petrochemical corridors where communities were often

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Speaker 3: not served and where it seemed impossible for progress to happen.

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Speaker 3: I lived in a community in college where the duxtaposition

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Speaker 3: of where I went to school and where my older

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Speaker 3: sister went to school was very distinct. And so a

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Speaker 3: large part of this is just letting people know what's available,

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Speaker 3: what's possible, and that they can afford it. Because this

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Speaker 3: is a moment to our's point about it being a

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Speaker 3: kitchen table issue. Every kitchen table can solve this problem

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Speaker 3: because there's money to help you, and so part of

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Speaker 3: the work of rewiring. In fact, the core of rewiring

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Speaker 3: is helping people understand all of the money that's available,

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Speaker 3: all of the tools that are available, and then shifting

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Speaker 3: their belief system to know that they get to benefit.

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Speaker 3: They just have to believe it's possible.

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Speaker 4: And Ari, you talked about the Inflation Reduction Act.

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Speaker 1: It's a big bill. It does many things. How specifically

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Speaker 1: have you been able to use what the IRA has

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Speaker 1: put out for the work that you've done with Rewarding America.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, one of the first things that we did

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Speaker 2: was we built a calculator for households to access to

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Speaker 2: understand what they were eligible for in the Inflation Reduction

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Speaker 2: Act itself. We've had almost a million households access that

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Speaker 2: over the past two years, and we haven't spent a

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Speaker 2: dollar advertising for that because, to Stacy's point, people like

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Speaker 2: getting stuff, but they don't know how to navigate. And

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Speaker 2: so the first thing that we have done is really

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Speaker 2: start investing in these tools to help make that kitchen

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Speaker 2: table conversation personal and accessible, to Stacy's point, for every

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Speaker 2: household in the country. That's really important because most people

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Speaker 2: don't think about this stuff on a day in and

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Speaker 2: day out basis. I work with a lot of people

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Speaker 2: who are climate geeks. I still haven't met someone who says,

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Speaker 2: I can't wait for the new model of the water

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Speaker 2: heater to come out because I'm totally upgrading extrame. That's

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Speaker 2: not a conversation people have, at least not most people.

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Speaker 2: And so we've been really focused on creating that sort

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Speaker 2: of the access points and the on ramps for households.

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Speaker 2: And then the other thing that we did that Stacy

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Speaker 2: and I have been working on over the last year

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Speaker 2: and change is that we put together a coalition to

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Speaker 2: apply for something called the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund, and

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Speaker 2: we were selected for two billion dollars to really create

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Speaker 2: a way forward for low and modern income households in

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Speaker 2: communities so that every kitchen table is able to participate

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Speaker 2: and afford these improvements.

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Speaker 1: Now, the Inflation Reduction Act came up very first answer,

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Speaker 1: and it's crucial because none of this happens without policy,

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Speaker 1: and policy doesn't happen without politics. Now, on so many issues,

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Speaker 1: including on climate, there is a clear choice at the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four election, and Stacy, you said it, the

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Speaker 1: choice is not Donald Trump, but that means we must

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Speaker 1: face the inescapable question, which is then who? And you

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Speaker 1: wrote an op ed yesterday saying that it must be

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Speaker 1: the Democratic nominee for president must be Joe Biden. Why

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Speaker 1: is that he is our president?

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Speaker 3: He is our nominee and he will be president again

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Speaker 3: if we do the work necessary to make it so.

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Speaker 3: But let's be clear, we would not have the Inflation

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Speaker 3: Reduction Act. We would not have the billions of dollars

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Speaker 3: that are being poured into communities of color, into low

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Speaker 3: income communities, into rural communities of American communities. But for

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Speaker 3: President Joe Biden, we know that, we know absolutely that

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Speaker 3: these dollars will be transformative in Georgia. One of the

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Speaker 3: ways Rewiring has been incredibly prescient in thinking about this.

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Speaker 3: We are doing demonstration projects around the country in Milwaukee

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Speaker 3: and Gresham, Oregon, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in East Point, Georgia,

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Speaker 3: and in Desoda, Georgia. There's a lot of Georgia. I

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Speaker 3: get to be a part of it, So there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of Georgia. But in DeSoto, Georgia, we're actually making

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Speaker 3: certain that every household that wants something is getting the

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Speaker 3: investment of an upgraded appliance. We have a woman who

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Speaker 3: was living without running water in her home because she

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Speaker 3: couldn't afford to upgrade her water heater. It had rested out.

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Speaker 3: And she's an elderly woman, Mildred Carter seventy five, and

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Speaker 3: was just going across the street to her neighbor's house

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Speaker 3: to get water because of the moneies that are going

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Speaker 3: to come in. Because of the work of rewiring, she

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Speaker 3: got a new water heater. There is a family that

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Speaker 3: was living in a double white trailer without central air

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Speaker 3: with kids, I mean three generations of families. They now

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Speaker 3: have central air for the first time in their lives.

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Speaker 3: This is life changing work that would not be possible

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Speaker 3: but for President Joe Biden. So my commitment to his

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Speaker 3: reelection is that not only do I know what he

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Speaker 3: is doing, I know what the other guy said he

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Speaker 3: promises to do, which is to dismantle, disassociate, and destroy

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Speaker 3: what is possible for the future. And so for me,

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Speaker 3: there is no choice but to make certain that we

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Speaker 3: reelect Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: Right, And and we are asking these questions because of

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Speaker 1: the poor performance at the first presidential debate. Now you

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Speaker 1: say that any alternative, say you go to an open convention,

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Speaker 1: is likely to lead to a divide among Democrats, and

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Speaker 1: you say that the focus should be among Democrats, not infighting,

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Speaker 1: but trying to defeat Trump. Any other nominee, and I

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Speaker 1: say in quotes won't have According to you, the campaign

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Speaker 1: infrastructure resources are significant national record, but sounds like Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris has all of that. So if Joe Biden does

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Speaker 1: step down, would you support Harris to be the nominee.

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Speaker 3: I don't do hypotheticals when we are three and a

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Speaker 3: half months from an existential crisis in this country. We

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Speaker 3: have a president who will become the nominee in mid August,

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Speaker 3: who will become the next president if we do the

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Speaker 3: work between now and then. I support the Biden Harris administration.

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Speaker 3: But there is one person who is the nominee for

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Speaker 3: president for the Democratic Party, and that is Joe Biden,

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Speaker 3: and that is who I support.

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Speaker 1: Right, So I appreciate that answer. Now, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that.

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Speaker 2: You've wasn't enough, though.

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Speaker 3: Not my first rodeo.

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Speaker 1: Come on, you've been crucial in turning the vote out

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Speaker 1: in Georgia in twenty twenty, got enough votes out to

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Speaker 1: turn the state blue to ensure that the Senate has

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Speaker 1: a Democratic majority, and you said you don't do hypotheticals, but.

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Speaker 3: No, I didn't say ever, but go ahead. But if

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Speaker 3: I write books, so I think hypotheticals all the time.

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Speaker 3: Just depends on the situation. But let's see if you

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Speaker 3: can reach that, sir.

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Speaker 1: If Biden stays on poles, show that currently people aren't

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Speaker 1: as excited about going to vote for Joe Biden, are

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Speaker 1: you worried that there won't be enough of a turnout

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Speaker 1: to be able to defeat Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: People don't care about your politics. They care about their lives.

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Speaker 3: They vote based on their needs. We need a president

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Speaker 3: who has demonstrated, for the last three and a half years,

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Speaker 3: an assiduous commitment to saving our planet and more importantly,

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Speaker 3: saving our lives. We need someone who has demonstrated through

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Speaker 3: word and deed, the understanding of the crisis that we

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Speaker 3: face in our environment, and also has a detailed and

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Speaker 3: dedicated plan. The work of winning an election is not

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Speaker 3: simply who is running. It's not just what's on the ballot.

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Speaker 3: It's who's in the booth. And to get people into

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Speaker 3: the booth, you have groups like Rewiring America, a nonpartisan

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Speaker 3: organization that exists to tell people what's possible when people

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Speaker 3: know I can get an HVAC system so that I

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Speaker 3: can stay cool in the sweltering heat of Seattle, which

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Speaker 3: is a strange when they know that in the winter

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Speaker 3: when delivered fuels start to increase in cost, and they

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Speaker 3: now have an upgraded system that lets them stay warm

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Speaker 3: in the winter without having to sacrifice healthcare for energy cost.

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Speaker 3: That's the choice that we're asking people to make president

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Speaker 3: by is the right person to be on the ballot.

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Speaker 3: But the work of winning an election is about who

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Speaker 3: you get to show up to the booth, and that's

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Speaker 3: the work of everyone who cares about the future of

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Speaker 3: this country. And so I'm not concerned. I'm committed, and

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Speaker 3: our job is to convince every person who shares that

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Speaker 3: value system and wants to see that future to show

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Speaker 3: up and do the same work and get more people

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Speaker 3: to vote.

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Speaker 2: I had the honor of serving in the Obama White House,

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Speaker 2: and in twenty twelve, we had economic data that showed

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Speaker 2: that everything was getting better, and when we did polling,

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Speaker 2: people felt like it wasn't getting better in their day

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Speaker 2: to day lives. And today inflation numbers came out showing

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Speaker 2: that it's easing, setting up an opportunity for the FED

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Speaker 2: to do an interest rate cut, and so we talk

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Speaker 2: about that in terms of macroeconomic issues, but at the

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Speaker 2: kitchen table it is a different story. And the thing

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Speaker 2: that just to connect the dots here, the reason why

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Speaker 2: this is very important to our political future and very

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Speaker 2: important to our climate future, is that electrification and making

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Speaker 2: these decisions is anti inflationary to people's day to day

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Speaker 2: lives because they trade out a five hundred dollars bill

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Speaker 2: for one hundred dollars bill. But it's also anti inflationary

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Speaker 2: because the most inflationary force in the history of humankind

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Speaker 2: is climate change.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that has been surprising to

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Speaker 1: me as somebody who lives in the UK watching the

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Speaker 1: Inflation in Reduction Act play out. There are so many

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Speaker 1: things that are being done that are going to help

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Speaker 1: reduce emissions, reduce inflation, reduce the bills that people pay

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Speaker 1: for energy while making decobonization happen, but they've still not

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Speaker 1: been appreciated by people. People don't know the Inflation Reduction

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Speaker 1: Act most people, right, And you said, you have this

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Speaker 1: tool that has gone on to a million people, million

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Speaker 1: households that have used this tool to try and figure

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Speaker 1: out how to electrify their homes. There are one hundred

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Speaker 1: million households in America, and so there is still a

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Speaker 1: gap between doing which is important and showing to people

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Speaker 1: what you have done, because that is what will get

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Speaker 1: the vote to turn out. So how are you working

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Speaker 1: to bridge that gap? Because that gap is very big.

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Speaker 2: It's big, and it's important, and it is also common sense.

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Speaker 2: Most people don't think about what's happening in Washington day

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Speaker 2: in and day out. Most people don't read seven thousand

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Speaker 2: page legislative texts as compelling as they might be, and

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Speaker 2: you know, people are just trying to make do. And

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Speaker 2: then the other part of this is that we live

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Speaker 2: in a status quo environment that is a fossil fuel environment.

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Speaker 2: So when your furnace conks out or when your water

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Speaker 2: heater stops working and you need to figure out what

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Speaker 2: to do again, you don't think about that stuff on

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Speaker 2: a day in and day out basis. So when you

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Speaker 2: call somebody to go replace it or fix it, what

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Speaker 2: they tend to do is do a like for like swap.

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Speaker 2: So the thing that has pipes in your house that

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Speaker 2: connects to the pipe sticking out of your wall. When

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Speaker 2: the contractor comes with their van, they have a thing

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Speaker 2: that has pipe sticking out of the back to connect

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Speaker 2: to the pipe sticking out of your wall. And if

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Speaker 2: at that point in time you say, I heard something

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Speaker 2: on a podcast about a heat pump, what's that like?

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Speaker 2: That's not a great time to have that conversation. And

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Speaker 2: so we need to get we need to cut through

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Speaker 2: and get to people about the benefit and the value

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Speaker 2: to them, but also get the friction out of the

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Speaker 2: process so that it's easier. And that is what we

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Speaker 2: are incredibly focused on, and the way we think about

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Speaker 2: it is that our job is to make it easy

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Speaker 2: for you, and the you in that phrase is anybody

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Speaker 2: in the one hundred and twenty nine million households in America,

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Speaker 2: And for for you, it is going to be different

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Speaker 2: based on where you live, what your circumstances are, and

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Speaker 2: we have to make it easy for the you and

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Speaker 2: that context to be able to make to move forward.

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Speaker 1: After the break, Stacy and Aery talk about the policies

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Speaker 1: they most hope to see in another Biden term and

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Speaker 1: what they anticipate would happen under another Trump term. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, if you've been enjoying this episode, please

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Speaker 1: take a moment to rate and review the show on

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It helps other listeners find it.

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Speaker 1: Stacy say, the big question that we are grappling with

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Speaker 1: right now, we move on from that. Joe Biden remains

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Speaker 1: presidential nominee. What do you think the next three months

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Speaker 1: should look like to get the vote out for Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: So it's conversations like this. It's explaining to the people

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Speaker 3: who understand what's at stake what they can do. It's

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Speaker 3: connecting the dots between the pain they feel and the

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Speaker 3: opportunity to solve that pain. That's what canvassing is, that's

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Speaker 3: what organizing is, that's what campaigning is. And so we

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Speaker 3: have a lot of work to do. To your point,

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Speaker 3: not as many people know about it because it's shocking,

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Speaker 3: but in government things move slowly, and so even though

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Speaker 3: the Inflation Reduction Act pasted in twenty three, it has

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Speaker 3: taken time to deploy that much money. Those dollars are

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Speaker 3: now coming online. So part of the responsibility for anyone

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Speaker 3: who is of good conscience is to share this information

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Speaker 3: when you're on social media, talk about what you know.

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Speaker 3: People get most of their information about kitchen table decisions

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Speaker 3: from people that they know, and so part of our responsibility.

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Speaker 3: One of the ways we not only proselytize about the IRA,

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Speaker 3: but proselytize about climate the climate future we can have

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Speaker 3: is by convincing average folks who are voters to talk

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Speaker 3: to people who may not be voters, who may not

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Speaker 3: think they need to be voters, but who want their

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Speaker 3: lives to be better, and they need to understand that

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Speaker 3: if you vote, you get this. If you don't vote,

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Speaker 3: you lose this. And right now people don't know what's

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Speaker 3: at stake. And so that's the next three months, connecting

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Speaker 3: the dot between what's at stake and what is possible.

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Speaker 3: And we have one person who is making possibility real,

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Speaker 3: and that's the person that we're going to support for president.

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Speaker 1: Now we have seen a term of Donald Trump in power.

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Speaker 1: If he does come to power again, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you've been quite forthright about what it could mean for America.

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Speaker 1: What is at stake, not just in climate, but beyond it.

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Speaker 1: You know, in the pop ed you say, former President

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump has made it clear his plan is to

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Speaker 1: be dictator on day one. How does your work change

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Speaker 1: if Trump returns to White House one?

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Speaker 3: We do the work to make certain that doesn't happen,

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Speaker 3: and part of that is to explain what's possible under

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Speaker 3: the current term or the just complete a term. In

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court, the Chevron defferences decision means that the EPA,

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Speaker 3: the Clean Water Act, all of the work to protect

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Speaker 3: our climate could be vitiated with the stroke of a pen.

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Speaker 3: A lesser known decision was the Snyder decision, which says

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Speaker 3: that it's now legal to bribe local officials, that the

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Speaker 3: federal law that precludes that bribery is now permitted. Well,

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Speaker 3: if you're looking at public utility commissions that are making decisions,

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Speaker 3: if you don't have oversight and they can get money,

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Speaker 3: I invite all of you to engage in one hypothetical

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Speaker 3: of what could possibly happen. And so I think our

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Speaker 3: responsibility is to, as Aari said, we've got to connect

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Speaker 3: people to these moments. The way you preclude a Trump

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Speaker 3: administration is by doing the work to re elect the

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Speaker 3: current administration. But more importantly, we've got to take ourselves

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Speaker 3: out of the conversation of what's happening in Washington and

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Speaker 3: take it back to what can happen in my life

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Speaker 3: if there's the removal of a regulatory body that says

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Speaker 3: that you shouldn't have to breathe in dirty air. If

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Speaker 3: there is the removal of a regulatory body that tells

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Speaker 3: companies they can't pollute where you live, that's a real

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Speaker 3: consequence and it's not a hypothetical. The law now permits

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Speaker 3: that to happen, and it is only those who are

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Speaker 3: in power who can stop it and make it not so.

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Speaker 3: And so our job is to absolutely ensure that we

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Speaker 3: explain what could happen, and we also explain how you

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Speaker 3: stop it from becoming. So it's not rocket science, but

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Speaker 3: it is hard work and the work of telling people.

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Speaker 3: This is the work that Rewiring is doing, not through

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Speaker 3: the lens of partisan decision, but through the conversation of power,

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Speaker 3: because ultimately that's what all this is about. This is

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Speaker 3: a power dynamic, and we need to decide who has

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Speaker 3: the power, us or them, And by us, I mean

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Speaker 3: the people who need to be able to take care

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Speaker 3: of themselves, their families, their lives, and their communities. And

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Speaker 3: if we believe that we have that p then we

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Speaker 3: can make the choices that makes that power reel.

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Speaker 1: So our final question, see Joe Biden does get elected

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Speaker 1: and twenty twenty five, you have a second term. You

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Speaker 1: were gunning for the Infation Reduction Act in the first term.

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Speaker 1: What kind of big, major policy would you want to

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Speaker 1: see in the next term that could make electrification easier.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's not just at the federal level, it's across

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Speaker 2: the country. Stacy mentioned PUCs to engage in the hypothetical.

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Speaker 2: If you have a machine that you can buy that

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Speaker 2: is three to five times more efficient than the fossil

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Speaker 2: fuel counterpart, and it costs you more on your energy bills,

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Speaker 2: you can ask yourself why that's happening, And it's happening

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Speaker 2: because of how the energy prices are set between fossil

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Speaker 2: fuels and electricity prices. That's a choice that's being made.

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Speaker 2: It's a choice that gets made regionally, a choice that

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Speaker 2: gets made locally. So we need to really be focused

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Speaker 2: on getting the friction out for the household and the

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Speaker 2: incentives are piece of that, and there's more that can

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Speaker 2: be done federally, but we also need to be really

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Speaker 2: focused on pushing the cost down for households. That is

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Speaker 2: because of choices that we're making at a federal, state,

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Speaker 2: local level. From a policy perspective, that is artificially inflating costs,

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Speaker 2: creating friction that inflates cost, creating less transparency that inflates cost,

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Speaker 2: And there's a bunch of work to do in all

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Speaker 2: of that.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, the climate problem is really complicated and

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Speaker 1: you have to do the nuts and bolts, and that's

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Speaker 1: really important. But the vision is important too. So I

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Speaker 1: haven't heard a big policy that you would want in

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Speaker 1: the next term. Do you have one of those in

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Speaker 1: your back pocket that you're pushing for.

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Speaker 2: I think the big policy vision is making it easier

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Speaker 2: for people, and because that is that you Step one

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Speaker 2: in the Inflation Reduction Act was a bunch of carrots

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Speaker 2: that were important that people can access. But there is

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Speaker 2: a lot of work to do to make it easier.

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Speaker 2: And I think the way I would describe it is

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Speaker 2: that if we think about the household as the consumer

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Speaker 2: of the policy, and are focused on the household as

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Speaker 2: the consumer of the policy, then the policy vision should

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Speaker 2: be to make it easy for you, and anything that

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Speaker 2: touches that is sort of in the lines and we

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Speaker 2: should be working on.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Alice, thank you, Stacy, thank you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you for listening to zero.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like to listen to more conversations, from the

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Speaker 1: and now for the sound of the week. That was

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Speaker 1: an electric vehicle, a Ford F one getting test drive

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Speaker 1: from President Joe Biden at the twenty twenty one Detroit

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Speaker 1: Auto Show. If you liked this episode, please take a

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Speaker 1: Touch at Zero Pod at Bloomberg dot Net.

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Speaker 4: Zero's producer is Mike Lee Raw.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Head of podcast is Sage Bowman, and head of

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Speaker 1: Wondering Special thanks to Kira Bindrim and Matthew Griffin. I

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Speaker 1: am Akshatrati Back soon.