1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Oh. I believe competition is critical, as you said, but 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: the thing that we want to try to coach up 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: is the idea of not looking over your shoulder, but 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: moving forward to your future image, you know, moving forward 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: to your space and how good can you be and 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: how can you prepare and then letting the chips fall 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: where they may relative to competition. This is the Reformed 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy balance and perspective 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. Hi, 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: this is Nick Bonacoor from the Reformed Sports Podcast. My 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: guest today is Joanne mcaley, highly decorated Division one basketball coach, author, 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: mental health advocate, and sought after speaker. The former women's 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: basketball head coach at Duke University, Michigan State, and the 14 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: University of Maine. Joanne is the first Division one coach 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: to be named conference Coach of the Year in four 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: different conferences five times. Author of Choice not Chance, and 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: Secret Warrior, Coach, mcaley and I discussed the power of 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: developing all members of the team into leaders, the importance 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: of speaking openly about mental health, and why adverse moments 20 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: are critical learning experiences for kids. I am really, really 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: excited again, I have another just phenomenal guest. You know, 22 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: she's certainly a legend and uh particularly in basketball, but 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: in many arenas. Former head basketball coach at several programs, 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: most recently a Duke University mental health advocate and just 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: all around stud coach Pete Joanne mcaulay. Coach Pete, thank 26 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: you so much for hopping on. It's great. Thank you 27 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: so much. I appreciate it. And the Happy New Year 28 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: to everybody. All Right, well, listen, I gotta ask you this. 29 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: I gotta start here, coach, and I think this is 30 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: very interesting because you're the former head women's basketball coach 31 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: at Duke University and come to find out your husband 32 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: was teaching at the University of North Carolina. Now I 33 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: live in Wilmington and I'll sometimes, you know, drive by 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: people's houses and they got the flag out house divided. 35 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: How the hell did you manage being married to a 36 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: tar heel and you're coaching Duke um A very However, 37 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: I was divided, that wasn't truly divided because one individual, 38 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: namely my husband, I knew who he would cheer for. 39 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: So academia is one thing, but athletics is a whole 40 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: different thing. Especially in this area. So let's just say 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: you might have been a tar heel, but I must 42 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: say he wore Duke cats, Duke shirts. Um, he understood 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: the mission very clearly. He knew the assignment and I 44 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: love it. Coach, That's phenomenal. And you know where I'd 45 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: love to start, you know, speaking to your background and 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: being from Maine. I mean you your first head coaching job, 47 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, was it the University of Maine. 48 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: One thing I love to talk about with the listeners 49 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: and kind of give them feedback is the difference in levels. 50 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: A lot of people, a lot of young athletes will 51 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: listen to this, and sports parents they all want to 52 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: find the way to help their kids get the quote 53 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: unquote secret sauce, you know, find their way on the 54 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: recruiting platform and all that. Can you start real quick 55 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: and talk about the differences between for instance, University of Maine, Uh, 56 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, nonpower five versus a power five like Duke, 57 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: and just you know the levels and like what's changed 58 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: from the time that you coached the main too, when 59 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: you know you retired from Duke University just a couple 60 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: of years ago. Oh gosh, the game has changed. So 61 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: much overall, And I think the major differences in terms 62 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: of quote a mid major or Power five, you're looking 63 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: at size differentials. You know, a point guard generally at 64 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: a mid major you know five six, five, seven, five eight. 65 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: You know you get to some of the power five. 66 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: You're looking at six ft two point guards. UM. So 67 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: the game has grown a great deal. The positions and 68 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: sizes are you know, taller and stronger. And this is 69 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: generally speaking. I mean when we were at Maine, we 70 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: beat Stanford, we beat Alabama. You know we're able to 71 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: be successful against some power fives. Um. But overall, I 72 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: will say that's the size by a position, the quickness 73 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: that's on the floor. Um, those are critical elements. And 74 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, the game has changed in terms of a 75 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: three point shot. That changed everything in terms of the dribble, 76 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: drive offense and what people are trying to do. And 77 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: I think we've gotten away from some really good stuff. 78 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: I think we overdribble. I think that we don't always 79 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: set great plays for the shooter that needs to get 80 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: the ball at the time. But if I have a 81 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: young person being recruited, I would say great grades, great person, 82 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: great character. Um. I hope the passion is coming from 83 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: the student athlete and not the parents, and then usually 84 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: it shakes out because coaches are pretty good about recruiting 85 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: the level that suits them. And I also caution young 86 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: people to think about playing time. It's one thing to 87 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: be on a team. It's another thing to be a 88 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: contributor and to play, and so finding your role is 89 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: pretty critical. I know you've authored several books, um, which 90 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: I'd love to dig into here, one of them in particular, 91 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: because you kind of just you know, when you talk 92 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: about playing time and things of that nature, Um you're 93 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: talking about I believe, uh, And I won't put words 94 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: in your out, but first thing I think of when 95 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: it comes to playing time is competing. You know, like 96 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: it's not just on the court or in the on 97 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: the baseball field or wrestling at whatever the sport of 98 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: the you know, the day is. It's it's earning it, 99 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: and I think it's so important to try to touch 100 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: on it. You earn that starting position, or you earn 101 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: that playing time in the classroom as well, you earn 102 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: it in the weight room, You earn it in all 103 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: these different ways. And one of your books, I believe 104 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: and I think it's your motto, correct me if I'm wrong, 105 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: if I butcher it here. But choice over chance? And 106 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: I think you talk about competing, why is the what 107 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: is it about competitiveness? And how can that be such 108 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: a separator you know in life? Well it's you know, yes, 109 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: thank you, it's choice not chance. Rules for building a 110 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: Fierce Competitor. So that was my first book, and I 111 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: think that competition and being a fierce competitor is really 112 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: more of a fluid thing. Um, everyone's getting better, you know, 113 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: you want to get better and grow, and everyone else 114 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: around you is generally getting better, and so there are 115 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: no guarantees. Someone who's a starter as a freshman, that 116 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're going to start as a sophomore. Um, 117 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: you have to welcome the competitive cauldron I like to 118 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: call it, which is with no promises. You know, yes, 119 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: you you read about people and being competitors and on 120 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: the court for four years in a row and all 121 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: this great stuff. But each year there's new recruiting classes. 122 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: Each year their new dynamics, and you have to be 123 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,119 Speaker 1: a competitor. You have to be fierce, meaning you'll work 124 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: hard for getting yourself ready in details and all the 125 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: things that takes and then you have to be a 126 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: little fluid with it. Things change and coaches change and 127 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: situations change, and if you can't adapt, h then you're 128 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: going to struggle to be that fierce competitor. You know, 129 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: as you're talking, I'm thinking about you know, I was 130 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: fortunate to play for North Carolina Wesley and a D 131 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: three college. But at the time we we won a 132 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: national championship. You know, we're one of the best programs 133 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: in the country. I gotta tell you, our teams were 134 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: better when the starter or the All American was kind 135 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: of worry if the guy they were going to recruit 136 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: in was going to potentially take playing time away from it. 137 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to win or be a 138 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: part of a winning team, don't you kind of always 139 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: have to have that sense of urgency, like making sure 140 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: that no one's going to come in and take your 141 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: job and doesn't bring the best and raise the whole 142 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: level of play of the team. Oh. I believe competition 143 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: is critical, as you said, but the thing that we 144 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: want to try to coach up is the idea of 145 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: not looking over your shoulder but moving forward to your 146 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: future image, you know, moving forward to your space and 147 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: how good can you be and how can you prepare? 148 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: And then letting the chips fall where they may relative 149 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: to competition. I've seen I've seen players sort of, you know, 150 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: get comfortable and look over their shoulder, oh if they're 151 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: bringing in so and so or so and so, And 152 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: I've seen that, and it's really it comes from a 153 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: negative space of energy where you're kind of looking behind 154 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: you like who's gonna catch me? You know kind of thing. 155 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: And I really try to coach people out of that concept, 156 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: you know, to be the best you that you can be. 157 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: And how does that come about? Where is your focus? 158 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: And welcoming competition is all a part of that. So 159 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: it takes some training, um to have the right mindset. 160 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: And um, I think that's what makes sports so special. 161 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we're we're depending on you know, who 162 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: you speak to or whatever. But clearly we are further 163 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: away from you know, the pandemic than we are, um, 164 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: you know, in the trenches right in and such. And 165 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: I feel like prior to that, and I know I've 166 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: talked to you about this a little bit off the year. 167 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: My partner in in Reformed Sports project is is Octagon 168 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,239 Speaker 1: in particularly the Octagon Olympics and Action Sports Division headquartered 169 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: in Maine. And Peter Carlile and his staff are really 170 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: helping move Reformed Sports project and helping the growth. And 171 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: and he represents Michael Phelps. He's Michael Phelps, his agent UM, 172 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: Michael Phelps, huge mental health advocate and prior to us partnering, 173 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: Peter and Michael executive produced an HBO released documentary or 174 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: movie per se is The Weight of Gold. You may 175 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: have seen it. The Weight of Gold were highlighted several 176 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: different olympians journeys and really talking about exactly that, the 177 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: weight of gold and the mental the toll that it 178 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: takes on these athletes, you know, pursuing their passion or whatever, 179 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: and and the ramifications in many ways are negative. So 180 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: through that, and then of course you have the pandemic. 181 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: It seems like there's been a light yet athletes like 182 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, Kevin Love, of course, Michael Phelps, Simone Biles 183 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: and others talking about mental health. I know you have 184 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: a background in that, and you you're an advocate. Can 185 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: you talk about why you know it's important for or 186 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: or if you believe it's important for in particularly youth 187 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: or just amateur space for parents and coaches to be 188 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: aware of mental and what are some things they can 189 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: look for that maybe you know, you know, flashing lights 190 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: that they've got to take an active interest in. It's 191 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: it's so key for everyone. And I think the part 192 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: that gets missed here is that again you're looking for 193 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: your best self and when there's an imbalance in life, anxiety, depression, 194 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: maybe brain chemical imbalance. UM I was diagnosed by polarist 195 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: order at the age of thirty. It's seven years ago. 196 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: You know, I wrote Secret Warrior as a chance to 197 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: share that journey. But yet it's just a part of me. 198 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: It's not me, it's not all of me. And I 199 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: was thrilled to build a coach for years and years 200 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: um successfully, which is great success in relationships and so 201 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: many good things because I was properly diagnosed and cared for. 202 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: And so I think the thing that young people, parents, 203 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: everyone needs to understand is there's a journey to get 204 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: to a special place and within that journey are ups, downs, trials, 205 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: and difficulties, and if you try to sidestep them, either 206 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: through ignorance or through denial, then all you're going to 207 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: do is subvert the process of greatness. You're just gonna 208 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: cut it off. It's not gonna be possible. And I 209 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: think that, yes, kids have great anxiety. I've seen it. 210 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: Many kids have what I call so much regret because 211 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: they look back and they see two years of their 212 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: college gone or high school and they want to get 213 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: it back and they can't. And so trying to let 214 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: people know that this is what makes you and this 215 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: is how you go from here. Um, but the physical 216 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: component match with the mental component, good old fashioned brain health, 217 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 1: you know, goes a long way. And of course the 218 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: Olympians are at the highest level and they've got to 219 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: drop into their process even deeper. And I think that 220 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: the problem I see at that level is the amount 221 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: of distractions, you know, social media, the amount of distractions, 222 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: what's going on. It's gotten so big that that's also 223 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: interrupted the flow of how people develop. And so that's 224 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: something to think about. And I know is a head coach. 225 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: I've seen firsthand when phones were picked up and pulled 226 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: away and put away for a weekend, you know, going 227 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: all the way to the Sweet sixth game easily in 228 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: the most connected way possibly Elite Aid's Final four's National 229 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: championship game. You know, those were just small microcosms to 230 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: draw from. But focus is a real thing and you've 231 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: got to fight harder for it. And I guess that's 232 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 1: kind of a long answer, but it's all these things 233 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: are all interrelated. What you just said right there. Focus. 234 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: I've talked to several performance coaches who talk a lot 235 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: about and then they do mental training and they work 236 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: with youth athletes all the way up to the professional ranks, 237 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: and um, you know, they talk a lot about being 238 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: present and in the moment um, and and they said 239 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: that that takes work, and it kind of as you 240 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: were describing, you know, the distractions, it made me think, like, 241 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I was just thinking about my own self. Yeah, 242 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: I have to I have to. I'm forty three years old. 243 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: I think I'm forty three. Yeah, I think I'm turning 244 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: for it. I don't know. I gotta tell you. Once 245 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: I turned like for it, I don't even I just 246 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: kind of forget. Um. Yeah, oh my god. I've heard 247 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: and all everything that I've heard growing up, like once 248 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: you get to forty, watch out your body. I mean, 249 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: it's all true. So yeah, I'm sure I got a 250 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: lot to look forward to. But to go back to 251 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: the point, the part about being present and less distracted. 252 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: It does take work. And I'm, like I said, forty three, 253 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: can only imagine being sixteen, fifteen, fourteen, twelve, eleven, eighteen, 254 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: whatever it is is how challenging that would be? Is 255 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: that something that like, what can parents do? It's easy 256 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: to say take your phone away, limit that, but what 257 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: are some real things that you think that parents can 258 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: do to take an active interest to to really kind 259 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: of wrap their arms around, you know, not putting your 260 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: kid in a bubble, but allowing them to you know, 261 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: helping them stay reined in. Well, I think it's first 262 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: of all, you don't want to be punitive, right, you know, 263 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: I'm taking your phone away because you did a bad 264 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: thing or whatever. You want to lead by example. You 265 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: want to have a household where a phone time for everybody, 266 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: adults as well as kids, is put down in a 267 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: way and in a time to connect. And you do 268 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: want to show what a bubble is, what a positive 269 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: bubble is, because there's no question there's there's the in 270 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: and out of the bubble, okay, but you want to 271 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: be able to make that choice um and control and 272 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: be able to control your environment, your friends. You know 273 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: what you do and be in a positive space about it. 274 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: And so it does take a lot of work because 275 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: it takes a lot of human connection amongst families, one 276 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: on one talking, face to face, talking, taking walks outside, 277 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: doing things together. All of that is critical to being 278 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: able to get a sort of a plan about how 279 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: we'll manage this, because you know, young people need to 280 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: know that, you know, what's happened with technology, there's some 281 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: really really good things about it, really positive and we've 282 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: got to pull those in and recognize what they are 283 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: and then talk about what the negative are and sort 284 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: of way them. Um, when I do my consulting work, 285 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: when I work with people high school, college, you know, 286 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: teams whomever, I often draw with them, you know, get 287 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: visuals quickly on the table there and what does this 288 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: look like. You know, let's draw this in terms of 289 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: shapes and sizes, and let's look at how this is 290 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: affecting your life. And I think that you know, being 291 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: able to see it and so you can have true 292 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: action about it. You know. Staying in the moment, that's 293 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: such a cliche. Got to stay in the moment? What 294 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: does that mean? What choices do you have to ache 295 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: to stay in the moment and you know your passion. 296 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: What is your passion? Identify your passion? Is it coming 297 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: from you or do you want to play the violin 298 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: and your dad wants you to play soccer. You know, 299 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: there's there's so much clutter to sort through. And one 300 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: of my favorite um sayings is removed the clutter. Removes 301 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: the clutter in your life, and you've got to sort 302 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: through that. Parents have to do the same thing, And 303 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: unfortunately parents have figured out that scholarships are available, and 304 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: so I see kids overplaying or not passionate because their 305 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: parents want them to get a scholarship, which I can understand. 306 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: College is really expensive, but it's kind of tough if 307 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: a young person is not sort of going after their passion. 308 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: When we returned, coach mcaley and I discussed her leadership 309 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: philosophy and the importance of prioritizing teaching moments for kids. 310 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: Welcome back where we left off. Joanne and I were 311 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: about to talk about leadership development and how family dynamics 312 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: impact the college recruiting process. Man, that is find your 313 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: passion right. I mean, it's a challenging thing. I've I 314 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: have six kids and um my oldest is as a senior. 315 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: I have a senior, junior, sophomore, and then a third grader, kindergartner, 316 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: and then a pre k. Um, so I'm all over 317 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: the place. But yeah, I mean you're absolutely right, and 318 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: and each one is different, each one has a different passion, 319 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: and you know, and I felt like we did a 320 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: good job of trying to We're obviously still trying to 321 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: do that, giving them a buffet of opportunities and trying 322 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: to allow them to feed their passion. And one thing 323 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: I've noticed, and I kind of want to, I don't 324 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: wanna say shift gears. I think it all ties in. 325 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: And this is a question I ever asked anybody. People 326 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: often say leaders are born, you know. I know when 327 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: I was ten nine eight, or particularly when I was 328 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: like a sophomore junior in high school, I didn't like 329 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: to lead. I was insecure I did, but then when 330 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: I became a senior, I felt like I was the man, 331 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, really confident. And then that happened again my 332 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: junior year in college. UM, I feel like I've I've 333 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: developed into a leader. You know, what are your thoughts 334 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: on leaders are born not made? Um? Do you think 335 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: you can develop kids into great leaders? I think that 336 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: I always have in my coaching captainships are overrated. You know, 337 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: they look good on a resume. You know so and 338 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: so is a captain of a championship team. I think 339 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: that's great for that person. But I've always taught my teams, 340 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: all twenty eight of them, that everyone on the team 341 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: can lead, everyone has a purpose, and everyone can contribute. 342 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: And oftentimes you could play the ted Lasso box thing 343 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: and ask each person on the team how they think 344 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: they can lead, and just put it in the box, 345 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: not even with a name on it. Some people leave verbally, 346 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: some by action. Some people are smarter than others, some 347 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: people are more empathetic. You know, I can support my teammates, 348 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: I can pick them up. But the culture that I 349 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: believe needs to be created in any team situation or 350 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: family situation is that everyone can lead. An age is 351 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: not a determining factor. It's a willingness. And some people 352 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: are more natural leaders because they sort of fit the 353 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: mold of what a leader is. Maybe they're very vocal, 354 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: maybe they work very hard, So there may be one 355 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: of those natural born leaders. But leadership, to me is 356 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: a developed thing, and with the right leadership, others developed 357 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: around you some that never look at themselves quite as 358 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: a leader, but then figured out very quickly that they 359 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: can offer something, and everyone can offer at all ages 360 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: and experiences, something could be offered. And often if you 361 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: talk to the last person on the bench, on the team, 362 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: and as for their assessment, it's better than anyone's assessment 363 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: of what's going on or what's happening. So I think 364 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: we short change ourselves with that sort of you know, 365 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 1: born to lead and a born leader and you know, 366 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: all that kind of language. I'm not sure that's really 367 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: applicable now, and I don't think that's the best way 368 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: to go. When do you think that the emphasis should 369 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: be like if you're obviously you're a parent, but let's 370 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: say you're you're me right, you still had uh, you know, seven, eight, nine, ten, 371 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: of eleven year or whatever it is, right, younger youth, 372 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: youth athlete, you know, really young kids. When do you 373 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: think the emphasis if you're the parent should be put 374 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: on winning at the youth level. I think again, it's 375 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: kind of the nature of how it's you know, how 376 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: the leadership and how it's portrayed. I think competing is 377 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: a good thing, and I think the word competing is 378 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: the best word. We're going to compete, and yes there 379 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: are winners and losers by looking at the score, but 380 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: how are we all winning today by competing? And if 381 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: my team gets zero goals and your team gets won, 382 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: there's that time to shake hands, congratulate, show a sense 383 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: of sportsmanship, and then you're right back at it. And 384 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: so I think this whole idea of trying to pretend 385 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: in some arenas that winning doesn't matter, or let's give 386 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: everyone a trophy, all it does is kids are smarter 387 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: than that. All that does is knock at their self 388 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: esteem because their view is, why don't these adults believe 389 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: in us? Why don't you know it's a subconscious thing. 390 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: Why don't these adults know that we know that we 391 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: lost the game. They got two goals, we got no goals. 392 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: And so if you take away those adverse moments, those 393 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: are the most critical learning moments of any time in 394 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: anyone's life. So if you remove on, we're just gonna 395 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: make you feel better. And actually, we just had a 396 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: good day to day and nobody lost that nobody wanted 397 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: you know, all these kind of ridiculous assertions, it's that's 398 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: to me, it's taking away from the learning, and when 399 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: you take away from the learning, when you try to manipulate, 400 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: that is wrong. And people manipulate life, they manipulate relationships, 401 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: they manipulate here or there. But if we're teaching manipulation 402 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: to young people, at some point someone's got to say 403 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: that that's the worst thing that could come from trying 404 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: to make everything equitable. Let'll tell you what, coach, I 405 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: couldn't agree with you more on that. And you know, 406 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: as far as performance, and I think you nailed it, 407 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: and I agree with you the word competing right because 408 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: outcomes the kids know what the darn So I'm coaching 409 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: my kids basketball team and it's you know, they're five 410 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: years old and you know, oh, look at the score, Dad, 411 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: look at word. We're like they're keeping track of it. 412 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: But I think as youth coaches, I think it's important 413 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: for us not to try to win it all costs, right, 414 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: not to try to win, uh, to sacrifice a young 415 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: man or woman, young child's development, um to not you know, 416 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: put a kid in a position. You have the tallest 417 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: young lady my daughter's team hypothetically and I'm just gonna 418 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: put her, you know, give her the ball all the time, 419 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: and we you know, it's seven years old, and we 420 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: kill everybody and win every game. Like that's not helping anybody. 421 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: It's not helping the girls, not helping anyone else. So 422 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: like I always try because people will say winning, you know, 423 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 1: or losing doesn't matter, and I agree, But there's a 424 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: scoreboard on and I think you need to coach to that. 425 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: And I think you teach this is for me, you know, 426 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: through competition, you know, but to make pretend that outcomes 427 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: don't happen. I think you're absolutely right. Kids are way smarter, 428 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: kids are way smarter than that, and they're gonna be like, yeah, 429 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: we did we did well. I gotta interject a little 430 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: something there. Um, there's something called the no scoreboard mentality, right, 431 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: and it's it's jumping into the process and making the 432 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 1: scoreboard irrelevant. And this is what I mean by that. Okay, 433 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: So you've got a basketball team. Your team is down 434 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 1: twenty points and the other team is pressing, and the 435 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: game is really aggressive, and they're continuing to play hard 436 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: and they're pressing, and your team is trying to do 437 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: the best to break the press. Okay, a lot of 438 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: people are going to judge that and say, wow, that 439 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: person shouldn't be pressing lead. That's you know, ridiculous. Blah 440 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: blah blah. Well, there's a lot of ways to communicate 441 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: reality in that regard. If you take your team and 442 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: let's say I'm coaching the team that's down twenty, and 443 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: I pull them over and say, look, this is just 444 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 1: what we need we need to get better. Let's take 445 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: our time, let's do our bed, let's pass that ball, 446 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: let's get up the floor, and this is exactly what 447 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: we need to get better. Those young kids are gonna 448 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: look at me and say, yeah, this is what we 449 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: need to get better. So it goes back to the leadership. 450 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: Let's say the other team all they do is pressed. 451 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: They pressed all year, that's just what they do. They 452 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: just pressed. Well, then they're giving us the ultimate respect 453 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: by doing what they do, and we've got to work 454 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: through it. You know, it's better to have multiple time outs. 455 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: It's better to loosen up on some of those things 456 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: so I can call time out again and say, you guys, 457 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: we got this, we got this, let's try again. But 458 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: that's kind of an extreme example, because I know a 459 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: lot of people and use sports will kind of recognize 460 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: that pressing down twenty. They might work on some other 461 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: defense on that, But I'm trying to give an extreme 462 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: example of what could be viewed as very unsportsmanlike, but also, 463 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: more importantly, can be talked about in a different way 464 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: with the kids. And I don't like my kids looking 465 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: at the scoreboard if we're down town, I don't want. 466 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: I want to focus on what we're doing because the 467 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: score board will take care of itself, and if it doesn't, 468 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: so be it. But again, it's getting kids to pass 469 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: the ball, it's getting kids to work together, it's getting 470 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: kids to find the open person. It's all these teaching 471 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: things and getting them right into that moment. But I'm 472 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: afraid a lot of external forces don't let good teaching 473 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: happen because there's judgment, there's parents, there's issues, there's complaints. 474 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: You know, there's people trying to protect. Don't want to 475 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: hurt feelings. And I think the kids can learn. You know, 476 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: you're not hurting their feelings when you're respecting them. And 477 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: the coaches under control coach what you just describe right there, 478 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: I mean clearly. I mean it sounds to me like 479 00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: you're an optimist and I love you kind of got 480 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: me fired up right there, because because and I love 481 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: I love it because it's like control the controllables, right 482 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: like like a team's pressing us. If I wanted to, 483 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: I can react and get angry, get like you can 484 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: say what you want, and I can feel how I 485 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: feel about that. I can't control how I feel, but 486 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: I can control how I react to that. So now 487 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: I'm taking that circumstance. That's someone you know pressing me 488 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: down twenty again using your extreme example, and I can 489 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: turn that into well, this sucks or whatever. It's not fair, 490 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: and my kids can feed off that, or I can 491 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: use that as a great teaching moment. I think that 492 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: in and of itself oftentimes is what's lost today, in 493 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: particular by a lot of and I'm not trying to 494 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: fingerput by parents, but at times my parents, you know, 495 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: if your kids are get not getting playing time or 496 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: whatever the case is, like, what a great opportunity to 497 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: allow my kids to experience a little struggle and a 498 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: little adversity um which is ultimately, as you describe, gonna 499 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: gonna make them better in the long run. But it's 500 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: hard to have that long term perspective. I feel like 501 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: at times everyone wants into gratification. I want to up 502 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: up here in a few but I gotta ask you this, 503 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: when you were coaching, when coach p was at in 504 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: the fight, which wasn't that long ago, when I mean 505 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: in the fight on the sidelines or on the recruiting trail, 506 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: if you had a situation where a parent would prevent 507 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: you a kid you really liked maybe want to come, 508 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: have come play for you, but you just don't want 509 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: to deal with a parent. Can that? And had that 510 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: ever happened to you? And you don't have to obviously 511 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: give any names. Well, actually the reverses happened more so, 512 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: and what you explained probably should have happened more And 513 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: what I mean by that, I have recruited some wonderful 514 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: student athletes in my day with some very bad parents, 515 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: and the student athlete actually, you know, really kind of 516 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: got away from what the parent was teaching. It cost me, 517 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: It cost me in a lot of different ways as 518 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: a coach to take those risks. But I love the kids, 519 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, and so I never wanted to be the 520 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: fruit doesn't fall far from the tree, but sometimes it does. 521 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: And so I was had a few situations where bad 522 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 1: parents but actually pretty darn good kid, but bad parents 523 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: came back into the fold during the career, which was 524 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: hard for the kid and hard for the staff or whatever. 525 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: So you know, I do think in recruiting, everyone looks 526 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: closely at family, everyone looks closely at dynamics and tries 527 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: to make the best decision to my fault meaning And 528 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a fault or I had 529 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: an empathic nature to me that I was driven to 530 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: be working with kids that motivated me despite the parents. 531 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: But the parents didn't go away, you know. So in retrospect, 532 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: because I reflect back on my career, I would say 533 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: I probably should have made some wiser choices just for 534 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: the you know, the health of my staff, myself and others. Maybe. Um, 535 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: but it's really hard to turn away a special young 536 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: person because you know that it's not their fault. I 537 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: can only imagine, Coach, we're going to do this again. 538 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: I love the I love the energy. Where can we 539 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: find you? I know you've got several books. Where can 540 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: they find your content? How can people hire you to 541 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: come speak? What? Where they Where do they gotta go? Okay, Um, 542 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: well I do lots of different things, but you can 543 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: find me a coach P the number four because I'm 544 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: a Final four coach, So coach P four life at 545 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 1: gmail dot com and I'm on all social you know, 546 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: um LinkedIn is my favorite Twitter and stuff as well 547 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: as I still love Facebook. But but anyway, for my 548 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: friends are on Facebook. The point thing is, it's coach 549 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: P for life at gmail dot com. And I speak 550 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: gosh to all levels, all students, athletes, uh, adults, corporate. 551 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: Do you name it? From physical, mental health, brain health 552 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: to motivation coaching. It's a whole lot of things, and 553 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: I feel very, very fortunate to have the opportunity coach P. 554 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,479 Speaker 1: I love your juice. Your success on and off the 555 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: floor speaks for itself. It's an honor, it's a privilege. 556 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: Cannot thank you enough for coming on and sharing. I'm 557 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: truly humble. Well, thank you so much, and enjoy your 558 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: beautiful family. Six children. Holy cow, that's that's impressive. Holy kid, 559 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: Thank you. Holy cow says I need all the holy cows. 560 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: And sometimes I take the cow part out and that 561 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: and put in some explicit to myself because I'm overwhelmed. 562 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: But hey, that that's all right. What are you gonna do? 563 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: You just survive in advance right like like the n 564 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: c A tournament. Absolutely, and take TI games so I 565 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: get to the national championship. So I think you're a 566 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: championship housel. Thank you, coach. I appreciate you. That's Joanne mccalley, 567 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: one of the most decorated Division one college basketball coaches 568 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: in the country. Thanks for listening to The Reformed Sports 569 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: Project podcast. I'm Nick Boonicourt and our goal is to 570 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: restore a healthy balance and perspective in all areas of 571 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: sports through education and advocacy. For updates, please follow us 572 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check out our website 573 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: by searching for the Reformed Sports Project.