WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: James Escalante Part 1 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:09.485 School of Humans. 0:00:13.565 --> 0:00:16.725 On June twenty fifth, twenty twenty, a fifty six year 0:00:16.765 --> 0:00:20.565 old man named James Escalante, who had Native American heritage 0:00:20.565 --> 0:00:23.605 and was also known by his nickname Blackhawk, left his 0:00:23.685 --> 0:00:27.765 home in Wonder Valley, California, on his mountain bike. James 0:00:27.765 --> 0:00:31.045 lived with a girlfriend, Sherry. She told law enforcement that 0:00:31.085 --> 0:00:33.525 when he left home that day, he was headed down 0:00:33.565 --> 0:00:36.045 the road about ten minutes from their place, in order 0:00:36.085 --> 0:00:38.565 to help a friend of theirs d whose car had 0:00:38.565 --> 0:00:41.445 gotten stuck in sugar sand, which is almost like dried 0:00:41.485 --> 0:00:45.005 desert Quicksand it is hot out there in the desert. 0:00:45.605 --> 0:00:47.765 The average temperature for that part of the desert in 0:00:47.845 --> 0:00:51.245 July and August is around eighty nine degrees and highs 0:00:51.325 --> 0:00:54.445 regularly go over one hundred degrees or even one hundred 0:00:54.445 --> 0:00:57.925 and five, and out there in the desert it's dry heat, 0:00:58.125 --> 0:01:01.325 so it feels like you're baking in an oven. It 0:01:01.445 --> 0:01:05.485 happens every year hikers go missing. People just wander off 0:01:05.565 --> 0:01:08.925 and get lost and don't come back. But the terrain 0:01:09.045 --> 0:01:13.325 also means that when people do go missing under mysterious circumstances, 0:01:13.925 --> 0:01:16.965 it can be easier for local law enforcement to write 0:01:16.965 --> 0:01:20.565 it off as just an accident. Now. Supposedly, the friend 0:01:20.685 --> 0:01:23.925 D had been out looking for rocks near Highway sixty 0:01:23.965 --> 0:01:26.805 two and Shelton Road, east of the town of twenty 0:01:26.885 --> 0:01:29.965 nine Palms. James had lived in that desert for a 0:01:30.045 --> 0:01:33.605 long time. He knew the area well, so the plan 0:01:33.885 --> 0:01:36.765 was for James to meet D at a specific intersection 0:01:36.965 --> 0:01:39.965 to rescue her. But once he got out there, according 0:01:40.005 --> 0:01:43.965 to Sherry, he couldn't find D. So James called Sherry 0:01:44.005 --> 0:01:45.925 on his cell phone to figure out what was going on. 0:01:46.565 --> 0:01:49.605 At that point, Sherry called D on a three way call, 0:01:50.045 --> 0:01:53.285 so Sherry, D, and James were all on that call together, 0:01:54.005 --> 0:01:57.245 and then James told D to honk her horn so 0:01:57.325 --> 0:02:00.085 he could find her. He seemed to think he could 0:02:00.125 --> 0:02:02.885 hear her, so he hung up the phone. But he 0:02:03.005 --> 0:02:06.645 never got to D's car, and no one ever saw 0:02:06.765 --> 0:02:12.805 James Escalante alive again. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past 0:02:12.845 --> 0:02:15.725 five years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, 0:02:16.005 --> 0:02:18.125 I've learned that there is no such thing as a 0:02:18.165 --> 0:02:22.005 small town where murder never happens. I have received hundreds 0:02:22.005 --> 0:02:24.925 of messages from people all around the country asking for 0:02:25.005 --> 0:02:27.925 help with an unsolved murder that's affected them. Their families 0:02:28.005 --> 0:02:31.005 and their communities. If you have a case, she'd let 0:02:31.045 --> 0:02:33.205 me and my team to look into. You can reach 0:02:33.245 --> 0:02:35.485 out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at 0:02:35.485 --> 0:02:38.605 six seven eight seven four four six one four or five. 0:02:39.285 --> 0:02:42.445 That's six seven eight seven four four six ' one 0:02:42.645 --> 0:02:44.965 four or five, or you can send us a message 0:02:45.005 --> 0:03:38.685 on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. 0:03:39.565 --> 0:03:42.005 I heard about this case from James's daughter in law, 0:03:42.165 --> 0:03:46.045 Heather Escalante, who listens to this podcast and reached out 0:03:46.045 --> 0:03:49.845 to us for help. In the month's following James's disappearance, 0:03:50.485 --> 0:03:53.685 Heather and her husband started working hard to find out 0:03:53.685 --> 0:03:56.325 what happened to her father in law. She talked to 0:03:56.405 --> 0:03:59.085 us about what was going on in James's life around 0:03:59.125 --> 0:04:02.325 the time he went missing, and her struggle to put 0:04:02.325 --> 0:04:03.565 together the missing pieces. 0:04:04.245 --> 0:04:09.045 So James lived out in Wonder Valley, California, in the 0:04:09.045 --> 0:04:12.725 middle of the desert. Wonder Valley is huge land mass wise, 0:04:12.805 --> 0:04:16.845 but it has under seven hundred residents in that area. 0:04:17.405 --> 0:04:20.085 It seems big, but it's really quite small and very 0:04:20.365 --> 0:04:23.605 farse in the desert. A lot of the buildings and things. 0:04:23.605 --> 0:04:25.965 Even if he went to maps and looked at it. 0:04:26.245 --> 0:04:29.925 A lot of his buildings are abandoned dilapidated, so it 0:04:30.045 --> 0:04:33.005 might sound like you know land mass wise, if there's 0:04:33.005 --> 0:04:36.965 a lot, there's really not. It's very desolate and you 0:04:37.005 --> 0:04:39.645 can see a lot for miles and miles out there. 0:04:40.605 --> 0:04:43.925 Heather explained that James was living in a trailer on 0:04:43.965 --> 0:04:47.645 the back of someone else's property. He lived with his girlfriend, Sherry, 0:04:48.045 --> 0:04:51.525 and a third person, her ex boyfriend and their mutual friend, 0:04:51.725 --> 0:04:53.885 a guy named Tyler who went by Tank. 0:04:54.805 --> 0:04:57.365 At the time that James went in the thing, he 0:04:57.805 --> 0:05:02.005 was living with his girlfriend at the time, and to 0:05:02.045 --> 0:05:04.645 be honest, this is all things that we learned after 0:05:04.685 --> 0:05:07.685 he went in the thing. He was living with someone 0:05:07.765 --> 0:05:10.005 who's claiming that they were together at the time. Her 0:05:10.085 --> 0:05:15.325 name is Very. They also had another person staying out 0:05:15.325 --> 0:05:21.525 there with them, who oddly enough was Ferry's on again 0:05:21.645 --> 0:05:25.405 off again boyfriend Flashed Fyance for about eight nine years 0:05:25.405 --> 0:05:29.805 prior to this as well. They were living at the 0:05:29.845 --> 0:05:33.525 back of someone's property off of Kerrn Road in Wonder 0:05:33.605 --> 0:05:36.605 Valley in travel trailers. And the reason they were there 0:05:36.685 --> 0:05:38.725 is because the person who was living in the home 0:05:38.765 --> 0:05:41.005 at the time had a lot of health issues and 0:05:41.085 --> 0:05:45.765 Scarry was supposally his caretaker. He actually passed away, probably 0:05:45.805 --> 0:05:48.405 about a month or so before James disappeared, and the 0:05:48.485 --> 0:05:50.605 family let them know, Hey, we're going to get ready 0:05:50.605 --> 0:05:52.765 to sell the house, so you guys need to move. 0:05:52.965 --> 0:05:54.885 And so they were actually in the process of packing 0:05:54.925 --> 0:05:57.365 up and trying to move when James went missing, and 0:05:58.085 --> 0:06:01.685 so very and be on again, off again boyfriend that 0:06:01.805 --> 0:06:05.245 also lived there. Very strange dynamics. But who's their own 0:06:05.285 --> 0:06:05.645 I guess. 0:06:06.525 --> 0:06:09.165 The person who owned the land and property they lived 0:06:09.205 --> 0:06:13.605 on passed away recently and their family was apparently planning 0:06:13.605 --> 0:06:17.285 on selling that land, so Tank, James and Sherry's living 0:06:17.325 --> 0:06:20.805 situation may have been about to change, which would have 0:06:20.845 --> 0:06:24.405 potentially meant that they would have had to move. Heather 0:06:24.605 --> 0:06:27.365 is open about the fact that James battled addictions and 0:06:27.445 --> 0:06:30.205 challenges in his life, including drugs. 0:06:30.805 --> 0:06:32.845 To tell you a little bit about James James was, 0:06:33.685 --> 0:06:35.685 I've never made it a secret. James was not a faint. 0:06:35.805 --> 0:06:40.325 He had a pass He had accurrence that didn't I 0:06:40.365 --> 0:06:45.605 guess meet everybody's standard of what people want in their 0:06:45.645 --> 0:06:49.525 perfect victim. I guess you could say in a story, yeah, 0:06:49.565 --> 0:06:51.525 and you know, we've never made that a secret. We've 0:06:51.565 --> 0:06:54.325 never tried to hide any of that stuff, but James was, 0:06:54.645 --> 0:06:57.085 you know, despite all of that, James was an incredibly 0:06:57.325 --> 0:06:59.565 sweet person. He had a big heart. That man will 0:06:59.605 --> 0:07:02.045 give you the shirt off of his back if you 0:07:02.125 --> 0:07:06.045 needed it. He was always helping people, even in in 0:07:06.085 --> 0:07:08.485 the throes of his own issues. You know, when we 0:07:08.565 --> 0:07:10.885 did his celebration of life, for instance, this is just 0:07:10.925 --> 0:07:15.205 a really great example of just who James was. A 0:07:15.245 --> 0:07:17.645 girl that I had never met showed up and she 0:07:17.765 --> 0:07:19.365 came up to me and she says, you know, I 0:07:19.445 --> 0:07:22.965 just wanted to tell you where an important person James 0:07:23.125 --> 0:07:25.485 is to me because I was in the first of 0:07:25.525 --> 0:07:28.685 an active addiction, and even though James was battling his 0:07:28.725 --> 0:07:33.965 own demons, he mentored me and coached me into sobriety. 0:07:34.085 --> 0:07:36.805 And now I'm going and taking classes so that I 0:07:36.845 --> 0:07:40.205 can help other people get to him. So that was 0:07:40.245 --> 0:07:41.765 just I mean, that's to me, is just the perfect 0:07:41.765 --> 0:07:43.925 example of how James was. You know, regardless of what 0:07:44.085 --> 0:07:46.525 he was dealing with in his own life, he always 0:07:46.605 --> 0:07:49.685 put other people first, and he always was willing to 0:07:49.725 --> 0:07:50.285 help people. 0:07:51.245 --> 0:07:54.165 Heather said that James was quiet and kept to himself, 0:07:54.725 --> 0:07:57.605 which meant that often family members wouldn't talk to him 0:07:57.645 --> 0:08:00.725 for long periods of time. That was not unusual. 0:08:01.685 --> 0:08:05.445 And you know, he was he was a very quiet man, 0:08:05.685 --> 0:08:07.605 kind of came across as a little bit mysterious, and 0:08:07.645 --> 0:08:10.005 he had a good sense of humor, and he was 0:08:10.085 --> 0:08:12.205 he was pretty he was he was a pretty wise guy. 0:08:12.325 --> 0:08:15.525 Like you know, if you if you needed advice, he 0:08:15.565 --> 0:08:18.005 was a great listener, but he was also great at 0:08:18.005 --> 0:08:21.125 giving advice. And he was a good person for everybody 0:08:21.165 --> 0:08:24.125 to go to when they regardless of what they needed. 0:08:24.285 --> 0:08:25.725 You know, like I said, he would do whatever he 0:08:25.765 --> 0:08:30.725 could for you. So you know, that's kind of I 0:08:30.725 --> 0:08:33.485 guess the best way I can describe him as a person. 0:08:34.525 --> 0:08:37.965 James lived a fairly simple life. He worked in construction 0:08:38.165 --> 0:08:40.045 and doing odd jobs around the desert. 0:08:40.965 --> 0:08:45.965 He did a lot of construction type work and and 0:08:46.245 --> 0:08:48.565 so I know, a long time ago he used the 0:08:48.605 --> 0:08:51.165 lot at Salt Minds out there, but that was probably 0:08:51.205 --> 0:08:55.085 when my husband was teenager time frame, so it had 0:08:55.085 --> 0:08:56.645 been a while since he had done anything like that. 0:08:56.685 --> 0:08:58.365 But he was doing a lot of like odd jobs 0:08:58.365 --> 0:09:01.525 and things around the desert out there, you know, fixing things, 0:09:01.845 --> 0:09:05.205 working on people's houses and some rants out there. I 0:09:05.245 --> 0:09:07.005 know he was doing a lot of that right before 0:09:07.005 --> 0:09:07.725 he went missing. 0:09:08.565 --> 0:09:11.085 Heather said that the first time she learned that James 0:09:11.125 --> 0:09:14.805 was missing was in September of twenty twenty. Remember this 0:09:14.965 --> 0:09:18.085 was during COVID, so going long stretches of time without 0:09:18.125 --> 0:09:21.245 seeing people in person or sometimes even talking to them 0:09:21.845 --> 0:09:24.005 was something that was a little bit more normalized in 0:09:24.765 --> 0:09:28.845 and James was someone who kept to himself anyway. 0:09:28.885 --> 0:09:32.285 It was the beginning, like the first week of September. 0:09:32.805 --> 0:09:36.245 My husband and his dad both are very wiaet people. 0:09:37.685 --> 0:09:39.285 You know, they're not the type people you're going to 0:09:39.325 --> 0:09:41.925 start a conversation up with. Because he hadn't asked them 0:09:41.925 --> 0:09:43.685 a question, They're going to give you a one word answer, 0:09:43.805 --> 0:09:45.765 and then that's kind of you just kind of boasted there. 0:09:46.205 --> 0:09:47.925 So they didn't talk a lot on the phone or 0:09:47.965 --> 0:09:49.725 things like that. And of course, my husband and I 0:09:49.765 --> 0:09:53.685 live out in South Carolina, so literally couldn't get much 0:09:53.685 --> 0:09:57.045 further away distance wise, so we didn't see the last 0:09:57.045 --> 0:09:59.445 time we saw him in person was in twenty seventeen 0:10:00.165 --> 0:10:01.565 when we went out there on trip. So we didn't 0:10:01.605 --> 0:10:03.565 see him very often, and they really didn't talk often 0:10:03.605 --> 0:10:07.565 because neither of them are talkers to be on. Yeah, 0:10:07.885 --> 0:10:10.925 so you know, we started catching word from people out 0:10:10.925 --> 0:10:13.205 in the desert, like, hey, haven't seen your dad in 0:10:13.245 --> 0:10:15.125 a while, do you know where he's at, Like, we 0:10:15.165 --> 0:10:18.285 haven't heard from him. To be honest, in the beginning, 0:10:18.365 --> 0:10:20.125 we didn't really put a lot of weight into it 0:10:20.245 --> 0:10:23.885 one because of unfortunately the person that we were hearing 0:10:23.925 --> 0:10:27.525 it from is not the most reliable source. And then 0:10:28.525 --> 0:10:31.285 because you know, James was kind of a walker. He's 0:10:31.325 --> 0:10:32.685 like a little bit of a nomad, if you will, 0:10:32.685 --> 0:10:35.045 and so he would take off sometimes for you know, 0:10:35.045 --> 0:10:37.605 a couple of days to a week, Yeah, things like that, 0:10:37.725 --> 0:10:40.405 and you know, just kind of get away from things 0:10:40.445 --> 0:10:42.165 and kind of you by himself. He was a loner, 0:10:42.205 --> 0:10:45.245 and so at first we didn't really just take it 0:10:45.325 --> 0:10:48.645 too seriously. But then after a while it was like, okay, 0:10:49.485 --> 0:10:51.885 this was getting a little too much. So because of 0:10:51.885 --> 0:10:54.405 the distance, we asked a close family friend of ours 0:10:54.405 --> 0:10:57.405 to please go out there and check things out for 0:10:57.485 --> 0:10:59.005 us and like see what they could find out. 0:10:59.805 --> 0:11:02.965 The family friend was not able to make contact with James, 0:11:03.405 --> 0:11:06.245 so Heather said that on September seventh, they had the 0:11:06.285 --> 0:11:09.085 family friend call the police in Wonder Valley to make 0:11:09.125 --> 0:11:13.685 a police report. Around that same time, Heather started posting 0:11:13.725 --> 0:11:15.125 about James on Facebook. 0:11:16.005 --> 0:11:20.205 It was just a whirlwind from that point forward. I 0:11:20.245 --> 0:11:24.205 had immediately started putting, you know, creating missing person's flyers 0:11:24.245 --> 0:11:26.405 and trying to figure out like kind of how to 0:11:26.405 --> 0:11:30.405 get a space out there in the area. And beyond that, 0:11:30.525 --> 0:11:33.365 started joining all kinds of Facebook groups that, you know, 0:11:33.405 --> 0:11:35.845 if they were pertaining to that area the desert, I 0:11:35.925 --> 0:11:38.405 joined them. If it was just a missing person's group 0:11:38.445 --> 0:11:40.845 in general, I joined them. Anything to do with American 0:11:40.885 --> 0:11:44.725 Indian missing type pages, joined those as well, and just 0:11:44.725 --> 0:11:46.325 started trying to get a space out there and let 0:11:46.405 --> 0:11:48.285 people know that he was missing and we're looking for him. 0:11:49.165 --> 0:11:53.125 After that, James's girlfriend, Sherry, saw one of Heather's posts 0:11:53.285 --> 0:11:56.605 and actually made a comment underneath it. Heather said that 0:11:56.605 --> 0:11:59.325 that was her and her husband's first contact with Sherry, 0:12:00.445 --> 0:12:02.485 and she said that from the first time that her 0:12:02.565 --> 0:12:05.925 husband talked to Sherry on the phone, a conversation that Heather, 0:12:06.005 --> 0:12:09.965 by the way, overheard, Heather said she began to feel uncomfortable. 0:12:10.725 --> 0:12:19.365 Something was wrong. Heather and her husband talked to Sherry 0:12:19.405 --> 0:12:23.005 on the phone after Sherry commented on Facebook post, and 0:12:23.125 --> 0:12:25.805 Heather said the whole thing felt off. 0:12:26.805 --> 0:12:29.685 Jerry actually saw one of my posts on one of 0:12:29.725 --> 0:12:32.845 the desert pages out there and commented on it was like, Hey, 0:12:33.605 --> 0:12:36.845 I'm his girlfriend, give me a call and put her 0:12:36.925 --> 0:12:40.565 number on there. So had my husband call her. I 0:12:40.645 --> 0:12:42.805 was standing right next to him in the whole conversation 0:12:43.045 --> 0:12:45.885 between the two of them, that very first conversation immediately 0:12:46.085 --> 0:12:48.645 just I don't even know how to explain it. It just 0:12:48.645 --> 0:12:51.165 got my stomach turning, and I just had like the 0:12:51.245 --> 0:12:55.965 worst feeling the initial conversation between the two of them 0:12:55.965 --> 0:12:59.605 that day on the phone. When she answered the phone, 0:12:59.725 --> 0:13:03.645 she immediately started apologizing profusely, like I'm sorry, I'm sorry, 0:13:03.685 --> 0:13:07.405 I'm fair, I'm so sorry, and we're you know. And 0:13:07.445 --> 0:13:10.765 then from there it's like the entire conversation she was 0:13:10.805 --> 0:13:13.205 referring to him in the past tent which immediately set 0:13:13.245 --> 0:13:14.845 me off a little bit, because, I mean, at this point, 0:13:14.925 --> 0:13:18.685 he's a missing person, right, that's it, And for all 0:13:18.725 --> 0:13:20.565 we knew at this point he might have just still 0:13:20.605 --> 0:13:23.445 been wandering. We didn't know. Yeah, I mean, he could 0:13:23.445 --> 0:13:25.445 have been perfectly fine. So why are you referring to 0:13:25.525 --> 0:13:27.125 him in the past tense? So that was the first 0:13:27.125 --> 0:13:30.245 thing that immediately just set me off a little bit. 0:13:31.125 --> 0:13:34.805 On that call, Sherry told them about what happened, the 0:13:34.885 --> 0:13:37.245 series of events that led to James going out to 0:13:37.285 --> 0:13:38.765 the desert to help their friend DP. 0:13:39.365 --> 0:13:41.285 So she tells us at this point in time that 0:13:42.005 --> 0:13:44.725 there was a friend of theirs that she had gone 0:13:44.725 --> 0:13:47.365 out in the middle of the night, in the middle 0:13:47.405 --> 0:13:49.485 of the desert, in the streetlights, there's no nothing to 0:13:49.965 --> 0:13:54.325 hunt rocks, and got herself stuck out in sugar sand 0:13:54.325 --> 0:13:56.165 out in the desert, which is really soft fand that 0:13:56.805 --> 0:14:00.365 once you're in it, you're you're not getting out very easily. 0:14:01.325 --> 0:14:05.245 Sherry said that after getting stuck, d had actually initially 0:14:05.285 --> 0:14:07.845 called the third guy who lived on that same property, Tank, 0:14:08.525 --> 0:14:12.045 but apparently he wasn't available to help, and then, according 0:14:12.045 --> 0:14:15.325 to Sherry, Dee also tried to call someone else, a 0:14:15.325 --> 0:14:18.165 guy named Gary. He said he wouldn't be able to 0:14:18.165 --> 0:14:20.245 go get d for hours since he was at work. 0:14:21.045 --> 0:14:24.005 So that's how James ended up volunteering to go out 0:14:24.045 --> 0:14:24.565 there to help. 0:14:25.405 --> 0:14:27.485 So that's at the point when she started kind of 0:14:27.485 --> 0:14:32.485 blowing up Sherry's phone, and Sherry and James were supporting 0:14:32.525 --> 0:14:35.525 the Sherry sitting at their place. Neither of them had 0:14:35.565 --> 0:14:39.285 a vehicle, and Sherry claims that she sent James out 0:14:39.285 --> 0:14:41.485 there to help her friend on a mountain bike, which 0:14:41.685 --> 0:14:45.205 that for James was incredibly normal. James, even when he 0:14:45.245 --> 0:14:48.245 had a license and a car, he rode his bike everywhere, 0:14:48.245 --> 0:14:51.245 and I mean like ten twenty miles one way, kind 0:14:51.245 --> 0:14:52.885 of rode his mountain height everywhere. 0:14:53.605 --> 0:14:57.485 According to Heather, he knew the area very well. Also, 0:14:57.645 --> 0:15:01.165 where D disappeared was close to where James and Cherry lived. 0:15:01.925 --> 0:15:06.125 It's a dirt road, but it's a pretty start road 0:15:06.445 --> 0:15:08.405 until you get to a certain point, so I mean, 0:15:08.445 --> 0:15:10.285 for the most part, it would have been a pretty 0:15:10.325 --> 0:15:12.525 food ride for him. I looked it up on Google 0:15:12.565 --> 0:15:14.605 Map and even changed it to say I was going 0:15:14.685 --> 0:15:17.645 to be riding my bike, and it said it was 0:15:17.685 --> 0:15:19.525 about a ten to eleven minute bike ride, like it 0:15:19.565 --> 0:15:21.005 shouldn't have taken him that long. 0:15:21.885 --> 0:15:24.525 But James didn't make it out to D and then 0:15:24.965 --> 0:15:28.765 he never came home. Heather says that according to Sherry, 0:15:28.925 --> 0:15:32.885 when James didn't come home, eventually Gary and Tank drove 0:15:32.965 --> 0:15:35.645 out to pick D up from the desert. But Heather 0:15:35.765 --> 0:15:39.365 said she doesn't understand one, No one D or Sherry 0:15:39.445 --> 0:15:44.085 or Tank or anyone else ever reported James missing or 0:15:44.325 --> 0:15:45.565 why they didn't look for him. 0:15:46.565 --> 0:15:48.845 He never made it to d No one ever went 0:15:48.885 --> 0:15:53.485 looking for him, nobody reported him missing, nobody did anything. 0:15:53.965 --> 0:15:56.045 I mean, here's some man that you're claiming that is 0:15:56.045 --> 0:15:59.645 the love of your life, right, he goes missing and 0:16:00.525 --> 0:16:01.765 you don't do anything. 0:16:02.685 --> 0:16:06.205 The reason Sherry eventually gave to Heather for non immediately 0:16:06.245 --> 0:16:09.725 calling police was that James had been involved in things, 0:16:09.765 --> 0:16:13.925 including drugs, things that they thought he would not appreciate 0:16:14.005 --> 0:16:18.365 them attracting police attention. Heather said that considering James's past, 0:16:18.845 --> 0:16:22.365 she can understand this logic to a certain point. 0:16:22.765 --> 0:16:25.645 Honestly, they've given me a reason, and I can somewhat 0:16:25.725 --> 0:16:30.645 understand given James's history and current things that he you 0:16:30.685 --> 0:16:34.285 know that he did, they didn't really want to draw 0:16:34.325 --> 0:16:37.245 police attention to him. This was right but for me, 0:16:37.725 --> 0:16:40.565 and I get that, not that I don't even necessarily 0:16:40.645 --> 0:16:47.245 disagree with it to a point, right, right, I mean 0:16:47.245 --> 0:16:49.205 that was right, No, And that was the thing that 0:16:49.285 --> 0:16:51.645 was crazy to me. So like for a couple of days, 0:16:51.725 --> 0:16:55.205 maybe cool, he didn't want to, but I mean a 0:16:55.245 --> 0:16:58.565 month or two later, that's a problem. James has never 0:16:58.605 --> 0:17:00.645 gone missing for that long and not been in contact 0:17:00.685 --> 0:17:02.085 with somebody. 0:17:02.325 --> 0:17:05.165 Heather said that over the times they talked to Sherry, 0:17:05.685 --> 0:17:09.805 small details about the story seemed to change, like what 0:17:10.085 --> 0:17:12.245 time everything happened, So. 0:17:12.325 --> 0:17:15.125 That is part of the story from Sherry that has 0:17:15.205 --> 0:17:18.245 changed multiple times. At one point it was, you know, 0:17:18.325 --> 0:17:20.565 eighty thirty in the morning, at one point it was 0:17:20.685 --> 0:17:25.645 ten am. I have talked to Sherry's multiple times. In 0:17:25.685 --> 0:17:29.045 the beginning, I tried to be very nice. After a while, 0:17:30.085 --> 0:17:33.045 it just didn't It didn't end up that way, so 0:17:33.085 --> 0:17:34.525 we don't really speak much anymore. 0:17:35.525 --> 0:17:38.365 Heather said that she reached out to D through Facebook 0:17:38.365 --> 0:17:42.685 messenger and initially D was responsive, but then things between 0:17:42.685 --> 0:17:45.765 them got complicated after something was posted in one of 0:17:45.805 --> 0:17:49.165 the groups that were discussing James being missing, something that 0:17:49.205 --> 0:17:51.765 Heather said led to D cutting off contact with her 0:17:52.005 --> 0:17:55.405 and taking her to court. I want to say there's 0:17:55.525 --> 0:17:58.485 zero suggestion that D was in any way involved in 0:17:58.565 --> 0:18:02.445 anything bad happening to James. And it's unfortunate when families 0:18:02.845 --> 0:18:05.845 who are desperate for answers and trying anything they can 0:18:05.925 --> 0:18:09.085 to put the word out there, when people sometimes make 0:18:09.125 --> 0:18:12.325 comments on these posts, comments that accuse people of things 0:18:12.365 --> 0:18:17.045 on social media sometimes this unfortunately leads to relationships getting 0:18:17.045 --> 0:18:20.165 shut down. But there's a lot we still don't know. 0:18:21.165 --> 0:18:23.885 Heather has not actually talked to de or to Tank 0:18:24.605 --> 0:18:31.605 or to the other guy Gary. Heather began to read 0:18:31.725 --> 0:18:33.645 more and more about the number of people who went 0:18:33.685 --> 0:18:37.645 missing in or near the Mojave Desert. Some were accidents, 0:18:38.165 --> 0:18:41.805 others seem to have elements of foul play. There are 0:18:41.885 --> 0:18:44.765 definitely a lot of elemental dangers out there, not just 0:18:44.805 --> 0:18:48.365 the heat, but also things like hill and valley wash, 0:18:48.725 --> 0:18:53.485 which happens when flash floods occur. Basically, dry river bottoms 0:18:53.605 --> 0:18:57.085 fill up with water really fast. They can drown people 0:18:57.125 --> 0:18:59.285 and sweep them away all the way out in the desert. 0:18:59.765 --> 0:19:03.285 On Reddit threads like missing for one one, people talk 0:19:03.365 --> 0:19:06.085 openly about the number of people who went missing in 0:19:06.125 --> 0:19:09.885 the area where James disappeared. One comment on Reddit red 0:19:09.965 --> 0:19:13.925 quote distance in the desert is meaningless. I'm in a 0:19:14.005 --> 0:19:17.485 further northwest area of the Mahave, but it's got similar dangers. 0:19:17.925 --> 0:19:20.605 Every hill and valley and wash looks the damn same, 0:19:21.205 --> 0:19:23.845 even if you have a particular mountain to orient yourself to. 0:19:24.325 --> 0:19:26.525 If you don't already know the distance and how big 0:19:26.525 --> 0:19:29.365 it is, it's not very helpful. It could be two 0:19:29.365 --> 0:19:33.685 miles away or twenty end quote. In a lot of 0:19:33.765 --> 0:19:37.205 media reports, people talked about the number of bodies found 0:19:37.245 --> 0:19:41.685 in the desert, six bodies in the last three years alone. 0:19:41.805 --> 0:19:44.765 Were all of these disappearances just people who got lost 0:19:44.845 --> 0:19:47.885 or turned around, or could some of them have been 0:19:47.925 --> 0:19:52.005 something more sinister. Some people started wondering if there could 0:19:52.005 --> 0:19:55.885 be a serial killer at work stalking the area, especially 0:19:55.925 --> 0:19:59.245 because someone else vanished on that same strip of road. 0:20:00.045 --> 0:20:02.605 This time it was thirty seven year old Erica Lloyd. 0:20:03.365 --> 0:20:06.045 James and Erica went missing nine days and a quarter 0:20:06.125 --> 0:20:09.765 of a mile apart. On July twenty fifth, twenty twenty, 0:20:10.125 --> 0:20:13.085 a guy named Doug Billings, who was actually a Cave 0:20:13.125 --> 0:20:16.365 and nine expert, was searching for any trace of Erica 0:20:16.765 --> 0:20:20.885 or Erica's black car, and he found something, but it 0:20:20.965 --> 0:20:33.725 wasn't Erica's black car. It was James Escalante's bike. On 0:20:33.845 --> 0:20:37.165 July twenty fifth, a month after James as Galante disappeared, 0:20:37.725 --> 0:20:40.485 a searcher looking for Erica Lloyd, a woman who went 0:20:40.525 --> 0:20:44.885 missing nine days before James, found James's bike, and then 0:20:45.005 --> 0:20:48.005 on August eighth, twenty twenty, according to an article on 0:20:48.085 --> 0:20:51.645 meat Eater, a hunting website, a hunter named Kyle Gibson 0:20:51.845 --> 0:20:55.165 was out in the desert north of Joshua Tree National Park, 0:20:55.365 --> 0:20:58.805 near the town of twenty nine Palms. Twenty nine Palms 0:20:58.845 --> 0:21:02.125 is famous, actually, that whole region of desert is famous. 0:21:02.805 --> 0:21:06.445 It's in the Mojave in San Bernardino count It has 0:21:06.485 --> 0:21:10.485 the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center nearby. There are 0:21:10.605 --> 0:21:13.805 very ritzy areas in towns like Palm Springs. There's the 0:21:13.845 --> 0:21:17.365 Coachella Music festival out in near Indio. There are also 0:21:17.445 --> 0:21:20.525 a lot of hunters, like a lot of places where 0:21:20.525 --> 0:21:23.685 I've spent time for this podcast, like the Ozarks. The 0:21:23.725 --> 0:21:28.525 wilderness is beautiful but also dangerous because, needless to say, 0:21:29.005 --> 0:21:31.485 you do not want to get disoriented and stranded out there. 0:21:31.965 --> 0:21:35.525 People do not last long. A lot of secrets are 0:21:35.525 --> 0:21:39.045 buried out there in that desert, including bodies and evidence 0:21:39.085 --> 0:21:42.405 that could be lost forever. They have found six bodies 0:21:42.485 --> 0:21:47.725 along that strip of road in the past three years alone. 0:21:47.805 --> 0:21:51.085 While the hunter was out there, he saw bones. At 0:21:51.085 --> 0:21:53.885 first he thought they might belong to an animal, but 0:21:54.005 --> 0:21:57.805 then he saw jeans and black nikes. He called the 0:21:57.845 --> 0:22:00.765 police and showed the deputy you came to the scene 0:22:01.005 --> 0:22:04.085 his OSX app. The deputy was able to see the 0:22:04.125 --> 0:22:07.725 exact location where he walked and the location of the body. 0:22:08.565 --> 0:22:11.845 Police went out there and recovered the remains. They confirmed 0:22:11.885 --> 0:22:15.885 that the body was human, and in December, the coroner 0:22:15.925 --> 0:22:23.325 called James's family to confirm that body was James Escalante. 0:22:23.405 --> 0:22:28.365 I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen 0:22:28.405 --> 0:22:30.565 Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans 0:22:30.565 --> 0:22:33.845 and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine 0:22:33.845 --> 0:22:37.525 Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy 0:22:37.525 --> 0:22:40.925 Tubbs for her research assistance. This episode was sound designed 0:22:40.925 --> 0:22:43.965 and mixed by Noah Kamer. Our theme song is by 0:22:44.005 --> 0:22:49.245 Ben Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and l. C. Crowley. 0:22:49.925 --> 0:22:52.405 Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the 0:22:52.445 --> 0:22:56.485 iHeart True Crime Plus channel on after Podcasts. If you 0:22:56.525 --> 0:22:59.165 were interested in seeing documents and materials from the case, 0:22:59.525 --> 0:23:02.805 you can follow the show on Instagram at Helen gonepott. 0:23:03.365 --> 0:23:05.005