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New Meranda 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 2: Chanel Beauty Ahead of Time. To learn more about the line, 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: visit Chanell dot com. 13 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 3: Maybe if I give them every single thing in my 14 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 3: body this time, they'll see how much I care and 15 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 3: how talented I am, and how worthy I am of 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 3: her role. And it's just this constant like seeking validation 17 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 3: from somebody else instead of like finding validation within yourself. 18 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: Welcome to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk with 19 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: women who dared to pivot out of one career and 20 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: into something new, and explore how their personal lives impacted 21 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. I'm thrilled 22 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: today to be sitting down with Carla Stickler. And you 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: might know who she is if you're a Broadway fan 24 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: like me. She played the role of Alphaba in the 25 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: famous musical Wicked, and after years of being in the ensemble, 26 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: touring and playing the lead role, Carla decided to leave 27 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: it all behind and transition into tech. And like me, 28 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: Carla's pivots have been full of waivers. She returned back 29 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: to Broadway when they needed her the most, at the 30 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: height of COVID. Throughout this episode, we'll explore how Carla 31 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: weaves in and out a feeling like she was in 32 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: control of her power. Carla talks about the ups and 33 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: downs of working in an industry where you're always striving 34 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: for validation, and her ongoing struggle to fully pivot away 35 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: from the thing that she loved for so many years, 36 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: and the thing I identify with most that even if 37 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: you love what you do, it can still burn you out. 38 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 3: My name is Carla Stickler. I am a software engineer, 39 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 3: but I was also an actor for a very long time. 40 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: Did you always think that you were going to be 41 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: an actor? Yes. 42 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: Mostly. My family is really really in the arts. My 43 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 3: mother is a pianist, and my grandmother was an opera singer. 44 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 3: My grandpa was like a violinist and a graphic designer 45 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 3: and related to Gene group of somewhere down there anyway. 46 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 3: So music and all that was always in my family, 47 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 3: and so I kind of always knew I was going 48 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: to be in that world. I sang a lot. I 49 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: wanted to act just because it went along with singing. 50 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 3: I felt like if I was going to be the 51 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 3: best singer that there was, I had to also be 52 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 3: a really good actor. But I really wanted to be 53 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: an opera singer. That was kind of my first passion. 54 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 3: I wanted to be like my grandmother was like, she's awesome. 55 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 3: My grandmother had like this giant thing of red hair, 56 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 3: and she was such a diva, and she wore like 57 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 3: these glamorous clothes, and she had this beautiful voice studio 58 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 3: downtown Chicago. And I was like, I want to be 59 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 3: just like her. She's amazing. And then I ended up 60 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 3: having vocal surgery on my vocal cords. I was at 61 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 3: Cincinnati Conservatory of Music and I was studying opera and 62 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 3: I was like, I'm gonna be an opera singer. This 63 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: is my dream. And I was having some trouble singing 64 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 3: and my teacher was like, go to New York. Go 65 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 3: see this guy. He's incredible. He will look at your 66 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 3: vocal courts and I'll tell you what's wrong. And immediately 67 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 3: he's like, you have a cyst. 68 00:03:59,480 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: I can remember. 69 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 3: So I had surgery and then I just like a 70 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: good nineteen year old, panicked and didn't know what I 71 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 3: was doing. And I was like, maybe I shouldn't be 72 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: an opera singer. The doctor was like, you may not 73 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 3: be able to sustain really high long notes for a 74 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: long time. Because that was it. I was like a Sobrano. 75 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 3: I was like a coloratura. I wanted to be like 76 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 3: Natalie to say, for those who don't know Natalie, to say, 77 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 3: go look her up. She's incredible, sings in like five 78 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 3: in chiels on her back, high notes, incredible opera singer. 79 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 3: But I was like, oh my gosh, if I can't 80 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 3: do that, well, then I can't. I'm not going to 81 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 3: do this. So I was like, well, then who am 82 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 3: I if I can't be an opera singer. Who am I? 83 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 3: And I dropped out of school and I worked in 84 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 3: a deli in Chicago for a semester. I was like, okay, well, 85 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 3: my boyfriend goes to NYU and I like NYU and 86 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 3: I want to be an actor. I could just be 87 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 3: an actor. That's the next thing, right, because acting singing 88 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 3: same thing. They're just performing. So I transferred n YU. 89 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 3: I guess if we're going to get into pivots. That 90 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 3: was my first pivot. 91 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: So she studied theater, leaving her singing aspirations behind until 92 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: one day a professor suggested that she should explore musical theater, 93 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: the perfect combination of her love for theater and her 94 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: singing background, and so. 95 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 3: I was like, great, I will learn. I learned a 96 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 3: belt and that was kind of it. Like I that 97 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 3: was like going into my senior year of college where 98 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: I kind of figured out, oh, I'm really good at that. 99 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: Do you remember if there was like a song that 100 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: you just connected with and you're like, wow, my voice 101 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: can do that. Jason R. 102 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: Brown, I'm not afraid of anything. I was singing it 103 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 3: and it was the first time I'd like hit these 104 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: like notes of like, oh gosh, it's so hard to explain. 105 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 3: It's like the first time singing felt like nothing like 106 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: it felt like the sound just kind of poured out 107 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: of me and it was like this very it was 108 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 3: like a release almost, And after having so much kind 109 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: of trauma around singing for so long, I remember just like, 110 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 3: you know, the song is like I'm not afraid of anything. 111 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 3: I can do anything. It's a little more complicated than that, 112 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 3: but there was something about like holding back and letting 113 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 3: go and allowing myself to like feel that for the 114 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 3: first time. I was like, Oh, I love this, I 115 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 3: can do this. 116 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: Do you think it had something to do with the 117 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: content of the song, like what you were singing that 118 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: let you like release into it. 119 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of emotion in it right in 120 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: that song, and it's a lot of connecting with who 121 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 3: we are on the outside versus how we feel on 122 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 3: the inside. I was like at late teens, early twenties, 123 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 3: trying to figure out who I wanted to be for 124 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 3: the rest of my life and feeling all this pressure 125 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 3: that I had to be a performer. 126 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: Do you think that your family put pressure on you, 127 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: even if they didn't know it, to achieve a level 128 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: in the arts that maybe they had not been able 129 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: to achieve themselves. 130 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 3: I don't know if they did it on purpose, but 131 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 3: I think I just I was good at singing, right, 132 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 3: Like people told me I was good at singing. So 133 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 3: I think there's this common thing when we're young that 134 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 3: if we are good at like an artistic thing, or 135 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,559 Speaker 3: if we're good at anything, right, adults like to label 136 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 3: us and be like, that's what you're going to do. Oh, 137 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 3: you're really good at ice skating, You're going to be 138 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 3: a figure skater. Oh you're really good at basketball, you'red 139 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 3: a basketball player. Like I was really good at singing, 140 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 3: and so I was going to be a singer. I 141 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 3: think there's a part of me that felt that I 142 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: never understood as a young person why my mother stopped performing. 143 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 3: She's like, but I decided to stay home and have 144 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: kids since sart my family, and as a kid, I 145 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 3: couldn't understand that. I was like, you quit on your dream. 146 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 3: How could you do that? And I couldn't. I just 147 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 3: couldn't wrap my brain around that. So I was like, well, 148 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 3: I'm going to do that because you didn't get to 149 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: do that. You gave all that up for me, So 150 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: I'm going to go and do that for you, for me, 151 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 3: for everybody. Because I have this You've all told me 152 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 3: I'm fantastic. You've all like blown up my ego and 153 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 3: like told me I'm incredible. So obviously I can do 154 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 3: this thing and make that happen. 155 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: But that ambition, inspired by the life her mother left behind, 156 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: came with costs. She was living not only her dream, 157 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: but her mother's dream, and like any job, it felt 158 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: like something was off. 159 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: We don't see the private stuff. We only see what's 160 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 3: on the on the surface, and people have trouble wrapping 161 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 3: their brain around that you would ever possibly want to 162 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 3: give something up that they see is something that everyone wants. 163 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: They're like, wow, how could you? Like when I left Broadway, 164 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 3: I had a lot of people that were like, why, 165 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 3: You're like living my dream. You're like living the dream 166 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, but the dream is really exhaust 167 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 3: like I'm burnt out, and it's like hard to show 168 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 3: what that look. People don't see that. All they see 169 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: is that you are living the dream. 170 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: So you graduated, Where did we go from there? 171 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 3: I lucked out. I got an agent right out of college. 172 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 3: I booked the Asia tour of the Sound of Music, 173 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 3: and I played Leazel and I went to China. I 174 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 3: was just an idiot on that tour. I had so 175 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 3: much fun, but like just I did a lot of 176 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: partying because I was like, I'm not going and this 177 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 3: is so cool and I'm twenty one. Like I was 178 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 3: like invincible, I could do anything. It was very fun. 179 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: Despite feeling invincible, she still struggled with feeling enough. 180 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 3: I've always been really insecure. I don't know. I feel 181 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: like if you pull every every single perform in the world, 182 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 3: they'll all tell you that they're just the worst performer ever. 183 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 3: There are things I know I'm good at, but I 184 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: think at that age, I just didn't know. I wasn't 185 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 3: super confident about it. I knew I had a lot 186 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 3: of feelings around it. I knew that like things were 187 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 3: working out really well because I had booked the show 188 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 3: right away, but I couldn't quite figure out how I 189 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 3: fit right. Like I still wasn't I wasn't sure if 190 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 3: I really loved a musical theater yet because I was 191 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 3: still kind of mourning the loss of my opera self. 192 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 3: I still just wasn't sure. I think I didn't know 193 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 3: what I wanted, so like when I got back and 194 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,719 Speaker 3: I was here and I didn't have my union card yet, 195 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, what am I going to do? 196 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 3: And my agents were like, so we're going to need 197 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: you to like go to open calls. And I was 198 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 3: like what, but I have an agent. They're like yeah, 199 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 3: we just need you know, go to as much as 200 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 3: you can. And I was about to quit the business 201 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 3: again because a year had gone by and I couldn't 202 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 3: get anything, and I had been in for like Mama Mia, 203 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 3: and then I was out in California for like a 204 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 3: couple weeks with this X of mine and I was like, 205 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 3: I think I'm going to quit the business. This is awful, 206 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 3: Like I hate everything. I'm not getting any I'm not 207 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 3: getting work. Maybe I made a bad decision. Maybe I 208 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 3: shouldn't be doing musical theater this year is awful. And 209 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 3: then Mamaia called me all as California and they're like, 210 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 3: can you come back and do another audition? And I 211 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 3: I got a really back cold for the audition and 212 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 3: I was feeling terrible. And I get there and I'm 213 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: in this dance call and it's like dancers. I'm not 214 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 3: a dancer and these girls are like kicking their face 215 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: and this combination is really hard, and I like froze, 216 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 3: and the choreographer comes up to me. She goes, Carla, 217 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 3: I don't know if anybody told you, but you're not 218 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: here for the dancer track. We're auditioning a couple of 219 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: things right now. This combination is for the dancers. You're 220 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 3: here for the Sophie understudy track, who doesn't do this 221 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: much dancing, so don't worry. And I was like, oh 222 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 3: my god, thank you for telling me that, because I 223 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: was literally about to burst into tears. I was like, 224 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,479 Speaker 3: what am I doing here? Why did I leave California 225 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 3: to come and embarrass me home in. 226 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: This dance call? 227 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 3: And then like I sang. And then like a week later, 228 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 3: they were like, great, you want to go on tour 229 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 3: in a week and I was like yes, and I 230 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 3: booked my first equity gig and I went on tour 231 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 3: for like a year and a half and then I 232 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 3: was like, Okay, this feels good. This is like reaffirmed 233 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 3: I should be doing this. 234 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: So she set out on her first US Broadway tour, 235 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: hopping from city to city every single week. 236 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 3: This tour we were doing one week stops. Every like Sunday, 237 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 3: we'd load out of the theater, travel Monday, open Tuesday 238 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 3: in a new city. 239 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: So what was the relationship. I mean to traveling with 240 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: the same people for a year and a half and 241 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: then for three years. 242 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: I learned a lot about how to be independent, how 243 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 3: to like try to separate work in life. It's really 244 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 3: hard when you like live with work. I would find 245 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 3: like a Whole Foods or a health food store, a 246 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 3: grocery shop. I would make sure that I had a kitchen. 247 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 3: I would find the yoga studios I could go to, 248 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: and I would try to kind of build a little 249 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 3: bit of a life during the daytime when I wasn't 250 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 3: at the theater. That would allow me to feel sort 251 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 3: of normal, so that I wouldn't get totally swept up 252 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 3: in like the drama at the theater, so I wasn't 253 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 3: always hanging out with everybody that I worked with. It's 254 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 3: really really hard, and on a touring production, everybody on 255 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 3: a touring production thinks they deserve to be in the 256 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 3: Broadway Company or there's something better out there, So you 257 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 3: constantly have people flying to New York for auditions and 258 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 3: talking about those auditions, and then like talking about, Oh, 259 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: my friend just booked so and so, and now they're 260 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 3: going to be in blah blah blah, and I'm going 261 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 3: to go back for that opening. And it's just like 262 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 3: a lot of everybody's trying to warn up everybody all 263 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 3: the time, and it's very sometimes exhausting was the word. 264 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: I was going for. That sounds east bad. 265 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 3: It's really hard to just like settle. 266 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: I want to pause here and explain for our non 267 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: Broadway listeners what Wicked is. The show centers around the 268 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: origin story of the Wicked Witch of the West. Like 269 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz, we follow the friendship and journey of Glinda, 270 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: who is Glinda the Good Witch in the movie, and Alphaba, 271 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: the green skinned Wicked Witch of the West. Not to 272 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: spoil a musical and a book that has been out 273 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: for decades, but Alphaba is the protagonist, the misunderstood hero 274 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: of the story, and her trauma as the outcast led 275 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: her to become an advocate for the little guy, fighting 276 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: against a system that villainizes anyone who is different. So 277 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: did you go right from Mama Mia to Wicked? Had 278 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: you seen Wicked by the time you joined the tour? 279 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 3: I saw it in two thousand and five graduated from college. 280 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 3: I'm really embarrassed about this, but I didn't like it. 281 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 3: I'm really sorry. I hate saying that out loud. It's 282 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 3: not that I didn't like it, but when I watched 283 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 3: the show as an actor, I have a problem where 284 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 3: when I watch shows, I can't turn off my actor brain. 285 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 3: So like I'll watch and I'm like, Okay, what track 286 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 3: am I? Who am I going to play? What's my 287 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 3: What do I do? And I was like, am I Glinda? 288 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: Am I? I'm like, I'm obviously not an Alpha BA. 289 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 3: I was like, am I a Nessa Rose? So like 290 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 3: I was like, I guess I'm a mess I'm Annessa Rose? 291 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: Why don't you think you were in Alpha BA? 292 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 3: I'm small. I'm like not quite five four, which is 293 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 3: not actually short, but they love to cast Alpha basall 294 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 3: even though a Dina Menzelisfi for Christon Tanna with is like, 295 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 3: what's right? But not every Glinda's going to be as 296 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 3: short as Crystontena With. So they like this thing of 297 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: like alpha but being taller than Glinda, and so I 298 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 3: was like, well, I'm short. I also didn't feel Alpha 299 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 3: BA at that time in my life. I didn't feel 300 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 3: that kind of power and not how to channel that 301 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 3: in myself, so like I couldn't relate to her. So 302 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,599 Speaker 3: I was like nessa Rose Tragic, I could do that. 303 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 3: Great funny thing is the first time I auditioned for it, 304 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 3: I actually went in forness Arose after I came back 305 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 3: from Mama Mia. The message that got relayed to me 306 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 3: to my agent was they just don't think you're tragically 307 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 3: beautiful enough. So I was like, great, I guess I'm 308 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 3: not gonna be a wicked And then like a year later, 309 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 3: no maybe not a year, but like like a few 310 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 3: months whatever. I had gotten married in that time and 311 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: I then got very quickly divorced. But it was right 312 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 3: when I was going through my divorce my agents called again. 313 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 3: They were like Glinda Alphaba, and I was like, Alphaba, 314 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 3: this divorce has taught me that I'm a really strong person. 315 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 3: I can be an alphabet absolutely, and like I was 316 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 3: able to then channel all of that divorce energy into 317 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: Alphaba and it was incredible, Like I like got it finally. 318 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 3: When I first had seen the show, I was like, 319 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 3: I don't have anything that tragic. I don't have anything 320 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 3: to relate to, and I don't know what that power 321 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 3: looks like in myself, and so like having gone through 322 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 3: that process of like finding my strength, I was like, oh, 323 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: I can be Alphaba. That was when I was like, okay, 324 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 3: let's do it. 325 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: Please welcome Carla Stickler from Wicked. My future is. 326 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: That's true. 327 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 3: So I was on the first National tour for three years. 328 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: The first year I was the understudy, so I was 329 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 3: in the ensemble eight times a week, so I was 330 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 3: like the second cover. So there's Alphaba, there's a stand 331 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 3: by who's an off stage principal cover, who's the first 332 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 3: to go on, and then there's standers study who's in 333 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 3: the ensemble. And halfway through that second year, they were like, 334 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 3: we're gonna move up to stand by and I was 335 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 3: like okay, but I had to wait like six months, 336 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 3: which is like an agonizing six months. I couldn't tell 337 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: anybody that I was moving up to the role because 338 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 3: I knew, but like I couldn't talk about it because 339 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 3: I didn't want to upset anybody. Like so I once 340 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 3: I moved up, I was a stand by for a 341 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 3: year on tour, which was great. 342 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: It was great for a number of reasons, but surprisingly 343 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: the stand by role is more coveted than the understudy role. 344 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: Why simply because it's easier. The standby doesn't have to 345 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: be part of the ensemble. The stand by is the 346 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: best role. It is a better role than the understudy roll. 347 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: The thing that's hard about the understudy role is that 348 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: you're doing eight shows a week. It's a different level 349 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: of exhaustion, where like when you're in the stand by 350 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: you get to rest a lot. 351 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 3: On the tour, we get to leave halfway through and 352 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 3: us act too, and then in Broadway you just leave 353 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 3: after she enters Act too. You could go home, which 354 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 3: is the best. It's great because we're like, all right, fine, 355 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 3: because look at that point, I think the whole thing 356 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 3: is if she goes down and Act two, they have 357 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 3: to stop the show. So it's faster to get the understudy, 358 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 3: who's already wigged and miked, into green, than it is 359 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 3: to get the stand by into green, because they would 360 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 3: have to wig her and do a lot more prep work. 361 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: If you've never seen Wicked, Alpha but is fully green, 362 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: And if you're wondering how long it takes to be greenified, 363 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: so was I. 364 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 3: We started half hour a half hour before the show. 365 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 3: It's eight o'clock curtain seven thirty. You should be in 366 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 3: like tights and your body suit in the chair, ready 367 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: to go, and then they start greeting you. Ideally they're 368 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 3: done greeening you by the time the show starts, so 369 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 3: you have like ten minutes to warm up and get 370 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 3: into costume. Sometimes they're faster. They can do it in 371 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 3: five minutes if they need to, and you. 372 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: Don't do it yourself. Absolutely, and does the stand by green? No, 373 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: only if she's going on. 374 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 3: Only if she's going on. Yeah, So, like there are 375 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 3: spots in Act one where they know that they have 376 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 3: time to get the standby ready. A common spot is 377 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 3: Alpha bo will sing Wizard and I and she'll be like, 378 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 3: I'm out and then and she'll continue on because she 379 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 3: doesn't have to sing anything, or a couple of scenes, 380 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 3: so she'll continue through the show, and then there's like 381 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 3: a swap out where she'll walk off stage and the 382 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 3: new one will walk on. 383 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: And that really happens all the time. 384 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 3: All the time, and people don't notice unless there's like 385 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 3: a drastic height difference or like a body shape difference. 386 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 3: Like people might be like, hmm, something looks different, and 387 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 3: then they'll make an announcement of intermission. 388 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess if she's green. 389 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, nobody knows, nobody cares. 390 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: That's the thing. 391 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 3: It's like, it really doesn't matter. I think that's the 392 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 3: beautiful thing about the show, right, I mean, as long 393 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 3: as the Alphaba is like a solid actress and singer, like, 394 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 3: nobody cares who's playing the role. It's not about the actress, 395 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 3: It's about the character. 396 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: Okay, So you moved from the tour to Broadway and 397 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: how did that feel to go on Broadway as Alphabet? 398 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you've really stepped into your power. 399 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was great. While I was on tour, I 400 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 3: really kind of grew into the character. She changed a 401 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 3: lot for me over, Like I go back to there's 402 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 3: some random bootlegs from when I was on tour, and 403 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 3: I watched them and I'm like, oh, that's such a 404 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 3: different version of what I would do now, especially like recently, 405 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 3: Like when I went back, I just I'm such a 406 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 3: different person. So I think that's the beautiful thing about 407 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 3: Alphaba is you can kind of take where you are 408 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 3: and channel that inter her and it changes as we 409 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 3: get older, right, Yeah, And you can you can kind 410 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 3: of morph with the role and grow deeper and deeper. 411 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 3: But yeah, I learned a lot. I learned a lot 412 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 3: about myself through her. She's such a powerful character and 413 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 3: her journey is it's sad and lonely, but she finds 414 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 3: her strength. I think when you play that role too, 415 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 3: there's kind of a loneliness that goes into playing the role, 416 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 3: and so you kind of like become Alphaba when you're 417 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 3: playing the role a little bit. You know, you get 418 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 3: to the theater early, you're kind of by yourself a lot. 419 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 3: It's you, your dresser and the hair people and wardrobe, 420 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 3: and then you don't see anybody else on stage. And 421 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,719 Speaker 3: then when you do go on stage, everybody's like kind 422 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 3: of laughing at you, and then you're by yourself, and 423 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 3: then you switch places there on stage, you're off stage, 424 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 3: and then the show ends, and then you go to 425 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 3: the dressing room, you shower, and by the time you leave, 426 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 3: everybody's left. So there's this loneliness to Alphaba that kind 427 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 3: of goes with just playing the role, right, and then 428 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: during the daytime you have to be quiet, you have 429 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 3: to take care of yourself. That's the thing that ultimately 430 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 3: led to my burnout was doing the same thing eight 431 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 3: times a week. It takes its toll on your body. 432 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 3: I had a bunch of injuries. I had a neck injury, 433 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: I had some foot injuries, and I just your day 434 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 3: today is all about making sure you can do the 435 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 3: show at night. So you know, you wake up, like, 436 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 3: maybe you go to the therapy, maybe you go to 437 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: the physical therapist, maybe you go get a massage, you're 438 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 3: steaming your voice, You're making sure that you are ready 439 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: to do that show at night, And so your whole 440 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 3: life becomes about can I do the show tonight. Like 441 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 3: I would wake up and I would lay in bed 442 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 3: and I go and I would like war. I would like, 443 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, is it there? And I would just 444 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: kind of check my range every morning. I was like, 445 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 3: and I would know it was going to be a 446 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 3: good day or a bad day based on what I 447 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 3: felt like right when I woke up. And it just 448 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 3: get really exhausting. And you don't really get a break 449 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 3: when you do a show like that for years and 450 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 3: years and years, and so your body is just kind 451 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 3: of like you're in maintenance mode all the time. That's 452 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 3: the thing when people are like, why would you give 453 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 3: that up? You're right, the show is really fun, but 454 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 3: all of that other stuff. Doing a long running show 455 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 3: for I did it straight for five and a half years, NonStop, 456 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 3: eight shows a week, with like two weeks off every year. 457 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: That's a lot. 458 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 3: Really messed my body up. I'm still dealing with like 459 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 3: my neck and jury and stuff. 460 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: On top of the physical toll, the show began to 461 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: take an emotional toll. Between the demand of doing eight 462 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: shows a week at odd hours, she began to feel 463 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: isolated and unable to find time for her friends. 464 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 3: It's hard to go out with friends after shows because 465 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 3: you're like, I gotta go to bed. So it's hard 466 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 3: to kind of like have relationship with people who are 467 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 3: not in the business. So either you're like only having 468 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 3: relationships with people in the business, which can get exhausting 469 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 3: because of like the competitive nature of the business, or 470 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 3: you're just not seeing people. And that was hard, Like 471 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 3: I missed a lot of holidays, I missed a lot 472 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 3: of family events. Like during the time I was on 473 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 3: tour with Wicked and in New York, I had a 474 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 3: boyfriend who was a teacher, and it was really hard 475 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 3: because our schedules were flapped and we had this point 476 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 3: where he got clearly frustrated because like, we never saw 477 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 3: each other and that sucks. 478 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: Carlin knew she needed to make a change, but I 479 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: think it's important to note here that it's hard to 480 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: leave something you've dedicated so much time and emotional energy to. 481 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: So instead of doing the hard thing and leaving, we 482 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: end up searching for a better purpose an excuse. So 483 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: she made her first career pivot, deciding to leave the 484 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: show in twenty fifteen to attend NYU to get a 485 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: master's in theater education. 486 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 3: And so I was like, I just need to get 487 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 3: out of the show. I need space to breathe, I 488 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 3: need space to think. And I needed a reason to 489 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 3: leave Wicked. And I was like, I'm going to be 490 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 3: a teacher. I like teaching and grad school, Like being 491 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: a teacher is a noble thing as an actor, to 492 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 3: go do right, like spread the gospel. I was like, 493 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 3: I'm going to do this. This feels really good, this 494 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 3: feels powerful for me, this feels like a purpose great. 495 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 3: So I did that, and right after I left the show, 496 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 3: a friend of mine was doing this cruise ship show 497 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 3: and she'd gotten pregnant. She's like, do you want to 498 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 3: take over my show? While I'm pregnant. I was like, 499 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: I do and it was perfect because I could do 500 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: it alongside grad school. So I'd like fly on Wednesday 501 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 3: to the Bahamas and then I would do like two 502 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,959 Speaker 3: forty five minutes sets with me and like a three 503 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 3: piece band. And I got this like little bit of 504 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 3: performing that was really joyful, and I could do that 505 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 3: while I was in grad school, while I was teaching, 506 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 3: and it was this really beautiful balance of the two things. 507 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, I get I get to perform 508 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 3: this joyful thing where I get to like be myself 509 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 3: and sing stuff that I love, and then I get 510 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 3: to teach and inspire and so it was really lovely 511 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 3: and in that time I found my power again and 512 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 3: I was like feeling really good. 513 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: Carla ended her relationship with her then boyfriend and shortly 514 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: after met her now husband on the exact cruise ship 515 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: she was working on. The stars seemed to align between 516 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: the two of them, both from New York, both performers, 517 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: both looking for something new, and he. 518 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 3: Also lived in New York. And then we also found 519 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 3: out he was from my hometown. We went high school together. 520 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 3: I had played softball with this sort of sister. Our 521 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: parents knew each other. So I was like, this is 522 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 3: meant to be. The universe is colliding. And things were 523 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 3: great because he met me after Wicked, which is such 524 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 3: a weird thing because he never really knew me when 525 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 3: I was like full time in a Broadway show, so 526 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: he's always known me when I've been in transition, and 527 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 3: so there's always been this conversation of, well, Carla, I 528 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: know at some point you're going to stop transitioning, but 529 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 3: like you keep kind of transitioning and transitioning, and I'm like, 530 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 3: I'm going to settle. I'm going to find the thing. 531 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 3: And you know, I taught for a while. My cruise 532 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 3: ship show got canceled right when he and I moved 533 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 3: in together, but like he had had a brain tumor 534 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 3: and so he had to have brain surgery, and so 535 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 3: like all of these things were kind of colliding at once, 536 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: right around when my show closed and I finished grad school, 537 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 3: and it was just like this moment of oh, okay, 538 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 3: this is a lot of things what is important. And 539 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 3: I was also still kind of auditioning and he was 540 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 3: trying to audition as well, and we were both just like, 541 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 3: maybe that's not important. His brain surgery kind of made 542 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 3: us realize maybe like family and relationships are more important. 543 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 3: So we kind of stepped back from that. Like with 544 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 3: my show closing, I was like, Okay, I'm not going 545 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 3: to audition as much. I'm going to teach more. I 546 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 3: taught on a couple of faculties here in the city 547 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 3: and I really leaned into that. And Wicked was still 548 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 3: kind of calling me in during that time, so I 549 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 3: was kind of like on and off in the show, 550 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 3: and he would see me, like go back to the 551 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 3: show and be really stressed out for two weeks and 552 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 3: be like Carlot, that was awful. I was like, I know, 553 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 3: He's like, do you need to do that? When they call? 554 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 3: And I was like, I can't say no. I can't 555 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 3: say no to Wicked. 556 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: Why couldn't you say no? 557 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 3: Wicked is like an abusive boyfriend. I mean that in 558 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 3: the way that like we loved them and there's so 559 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 3: much like passion and there's so many interesting things about them. 560 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 3: And every time we go we're like, it's going to 561 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 3: be different. It's going to be different this time because 562 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 3: they've changed. I've changed. I can manage it better. And 563 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: then you go back and it's the same every time. 564 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 3: Every time it's the same, and you're like, why didn't 565 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 3: I see it coming? And I would go back and 566 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 3: I get really excited that I was there, and after 567 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: like a week or two, my body would start hurt again, 568 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 3: and I would get those feelings of wanting more while 569 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 3: I was there again, like I had been the under 570 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 3: study and I had been passed up for the stand 571 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 3: by role in the Broadway company. 572 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: After already playing the stand by role, she craved that 573 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: role again. It was less intense and harsh on her body, 574 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: meaning she could still experience the magic of Wicked without 575 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: the toll on her physical health, so she kept trying. 576 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 3: So I was always like, well, maybe I'll go in 577 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 3: and they'll see me again, and they'll and I saying 578 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 3: it out loud, I feel so dumb, because it's like, 579 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 3: maybe they'll love me this time. Maybe if I give 580 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 3: them every single thing in my body this time, they'll 581 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 3: see how much I care and how talented I am 582 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 3: and how worthy I am of a role. And it's 583 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 3: just like this constant like seeking validation from somebody else 584 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: instead of like finding validation within yourself. And then every 585 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 3: time I come back, I was like, I can't do 586 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 3: this anymore. I hate it, and they call again and 587 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 3: I would go and so finally, in like twenty eighteen, 588 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 3: I was like, I'm so tired. I can't keep doing this, 589 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 3: and like teaching was getting really hard because I was 590 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 3: feeling how crappy that element of the business was. I 591 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 3: was just like, it's not fair. It's not a fair business. 592 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 3: They're going to just chew everyone up and spit them out. 593 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 3: And I was starting to like feel for my students 594 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 3: because I was like, I don't know how I can 595 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 3: tell you to go into this business if I don't 596 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 3: truly believe the structure of this business makes sense. 597 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: I want to hop in here because I think this 598 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: is an important point to emphasize. During my conversation with Carla, 599 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: I really saw this as a breaking point for her, 600 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: the idea that the thing we love and we're so 601 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: passionate was no longer a fit as we changed. For me, 602 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: it was when I realized that I couldn't be there 603 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: for my kid's formative moments while also showing up the 604 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: way I wanted to in my job, realizing that the 605 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: structure or the system I was working within no longer 606 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: fit me. And we hear it time and time again, 607 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: when we talk about people's pivots, when we remove the 608 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,719 Speaker 1: veil from our eyes, is the path really serving us? 609 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: Or is it time to pivot? 610 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 3: And I was like, how do I inspire people to 611 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 3: go into this business when I don't feel pasionate about it? 612 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 3: And that's when I found coding. I'd come back from 613 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 3: one time at Wicked and I was like, God, I 614 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 3: hate it. I can't go back. 615 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: What am I doing? 616 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 3: Why do I want this? What am I doing with 617 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: my life? They're never going to give me what I want? 618 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 3: What is the point of all this? And why do 619 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 3: I need it so bad? And my friend came to 620 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 3: my birthday party, He's like, hey, I'm a software engineer. 621 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: Now I think. 622 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 3: I was just like so desperate to find something that 623 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 3: would make me feel smart and powerful again. I felt 624 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 3: like I had all of my power had been stripped 625 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 3: away from me. 626 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: I was like, I could do that. I don't know. 627 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 3: I'm a crazy person. I think that's really what it 628 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 3: comes down to. 629 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: But I was like, I can do that. 630 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 3: I don't know what that is, but I bet I 631 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 3: could do that. I'm smart numbers. I was always very 632 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 3: good at numbers. And I went home and I started 633 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 3: teaching myself, and I was like, this is incredible. Look 634 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 3: at what I did. I made this thing happen. Look 635 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 3: at this button. When you press this button, these words 636 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 3: appear on the page. I did that. 637 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: Wait, how did you teach yourself? 638 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 3: There's a bunch of stuff for free online that you 639 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 3: can go and do. And I just started googling, like literally, 640 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 3: I was like, Google, how do I become a software engineer? 641 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 3: Is software engineering hard? How much money do first year 642 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 3: software engineers make? How much money do second your sofa 643 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 3: engineers make? 644 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, holy crap. 645 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 3: I didn't realize there's this is the thing about software engineering. 646 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 3: And I think why I talk about it so much 647 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 3: to people who are like unhappy in the arts or 648 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 3: they're just trying to figure it out. I'm like, software 649 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 3: engineering is artistic, it's creative, but it's also accessible, right, Like, 650 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 3: if you have the time and the ability to commit 651 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 3: it to learning the skill, you can change your life 652 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 3: in a very short amount of time. Getting into software engineering, 653 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 3: there's a little bit of a hump that you got 654 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 3: to get through, but as soon as you learn the 655 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 3: basics and you get your first job, the pay skill 656 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 3: just explodes right within a year, you're making six figures. 657 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 3: Within a few years you're a mid level engineer. And 658 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 3: Google and Apple and like all these big companies are 659 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 3: like trying to recruit you. And so I was like, cool, 660 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 3: if I'm going to try to change careers, let's do 661 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 3: something that's really hard and interesting and will also give 662 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 3: me like a four h one K and health insurance 663 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 3: and like the stability that I never really had. 664 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: At the time, she was working on an off Broadway 665 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: production and her plan was to apply to tech jobs 666 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: after her show closed and the premiere was set for 667 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: you guessed it March of twenty twenty, when the world 668 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: as we knew it shut down. 669 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 3: So Broadway shutdown I think on Wednesday, and that was Friday, 670 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 3: so we were in we were not in New York. 671 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 3: We were doing it out of town in Pennsylvania, and 672 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 3: Broadway shut down, and we were all in the dressing 673 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 3: room and stay like, oh God, this isn't looking good. 674 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 3: And then Friday was supposed to be our first preview, 675 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 3: and Friday morning they're like, we can't have an audience. 676 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 3: We're going to do the run tonight. We're going to 677 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 3: videotape it, and then you're all going to go home tomorrow, 678 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 3: and I was like, Okay, well I was going to 679 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 3: start my job search for my engineering job when the 680 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 3: show ended, so I guess I'm going to start it 681 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 3: now at the beginning of a pandemic great, which was 682 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 3: awful because nobody was hiring junior engineers, and so finally 683 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 3: I was like, I got to pivot. Pivot, Hey, I'm 684 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 3: going to look for software adjacent jobs. So I found 685 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 3: this customer success role at this company, and I was like, 686 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 3: great customer success, that's technical. It's also it worked with people. 687 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 3: I like working with people, so it was like very 688 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 3: customer facing tech. 689 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: It was great. 690 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 3: It taught me like the lingo, it taught me how 691 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 3: to work remotely, It taught me how to like communicate 692 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 3: in this kind of very different world. And it allowed 693 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 3: my husband and I to buy a car, moved to Chicago, 694 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 3: buy a house. It allowed us to kind of like 695 00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 3: have this life. 696 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,959 Speaker 1: I feel like what you're describing is you totally transformed 697 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: your life into this leave it to Beaver, like going 698 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: from the extreme of Broadway to this idyllic, picturesque life 699 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: and then you went back. Yeah. 700 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 3: I don't know if I'll ever be able to kind 701 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 3: of turn off that thing. Like I'm like a fly 702 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 3: to a light right, like you flip that switch on. 703 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 3: I'm like hello. Broadway was starting up again, and I 704 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 3: remember feeling a little itchy about it. I was like, oh, 705 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 3: I feel like I should find some performing here in Chicago. 706 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: And that's when Wicked came knocking again, this time due 707 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: to the omicron surge. They asked her to come back 708 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: to cover Alphabet for a few weeks, and then I was. 709 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 3: Like I should say no. He's like, do you want 710 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 3: to say no? And I was like maybe no. He's like, 711 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 3: do you want to do it? And I was like, okay, 712 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 3: I feel like I have this duty I should go. 713 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 3: At that moment, I was like, this is bigger than me. 714 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 3: This is kind of like Broadway is struggling, and I 715 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 3: think we need to show the world that Broadway can 716 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 3: make it through this, because I think if Broadway can 717 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 3: make it through this, I don't know if it'll ever 718 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 3: recover from this. And I think a lot of people 719 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 3: felt that. And so I was like, I'm going to 720 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 3: do this. It's going to be crazy, but here we go. 721 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 3: He's like, here's a deal. I support whatever you want 722 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 3: to do. It's like, if you want to go, you 723 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 3: should go. It'll be fine. I will be fine with 724 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 3: our friends, by myself in this cabin in Michigan. You 725 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 3: should go if you really feel like you want to go. 726 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: And I was like, I think I have to go. 727 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: And He's like, Okay, one day you're developing software and 728 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: the next day you're starring at a Broadway show. That 729 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: is a spellbinding moment from the life of Carla Stickler. 730 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: And as we've been reporting, COVID has taken its toll 731 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: on Broadway. But over at Wicked, they really do believe 732 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: the show must go on. And that resulted in a 733 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: triumphant return for someone who thought her performing days were over. 734 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: But between the shows and plenty of green makeup, going 735 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: back to Broadway reminded her of what you moved to 736 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: Chicago for in the first place. 737 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 3: Part of the reason we moved to Chicago was that 738 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 3: we wanted to start our family. Surprisingly, it's not that 739 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 3: easy to get pregnant. I think they lied to me. 740 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 3: I feel like I've been lied to my whole life 741 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 3: that it's just like really really easy. That's been like 742 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 3: the underlying plan of the whole thing is that like 743 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 3: find the stable life, go back to Chicago, start your family. 744 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: How have you been handling that emotionally? I understand from 745 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: a lot of friends a lot. I feel like everyone 746 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: I know who has gone through it that it just 747 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: it really takes a toll on you. 748 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's exhausting, and people don't talk about it a lot. 749 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 3: You don't know much about how awful it is. I 750 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 3: think the thing that is the hardest thing for me 751 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 3: is that as a woman, I think society kind of 752 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 3: pushes hard that motherhood is the thing you do with 753 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 3: the rest of your life till your kids are eighteen, 754 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 3: and then you go and you retire and you like 755 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 3: have a fabulous retirement. I think I always just assumed 756 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 3: that was going to be this part of my life, 757 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 3: and so now that it's taken longer, it's kind of 758 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 3: starting to grapple with the idea of like, oh, what 759 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 3: if I'm not going to be a mother, and what 760 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 3: is my life going to look like if that doesn't 761 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 3: work out. That's weird because I don't think I've spent 762 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 3: a lot of time fantasizing about my life as an 763 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 3: adult without children in her forties and fifties. I mean, 764 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 3: there are women who do that right, Like I have 765 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 3: friends who are like, oh, I never want children, and 766 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 3: I'm like great, But like, even though I wasn't ever 767 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 3: sure I wanted children, I didn't spend a lot of 768 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 3: time fantasizing about my life at that age without them 769 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 3: or in general. So there's just kind of this this 770 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 3: conversation that my husband I keep happening of well if 771 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 3: this isn't going to work out, what do we do? 772 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 2: Like? 773 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: What is next? Who are we? 774 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,439 Speaker 3: And I'm like do we stay in Chicago? And as 775 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 3: I've been doing the fertility stuff, I've had to kind 776 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 3: of take a step back from a lot of things 777 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 3: because it is emotionally exhausting. It's really hard, you know. 778 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 3: So like a lot of things I've been put on 779 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 3: the back burner, I've had to say no to. 780 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: Well, rethinking your expectations for yourself and your life that 781 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: feels crushing even interested me to think about it. 782 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 3: I try to think about it in terms of I'm 783 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 3: really good at I keep saying it, but pivoting, right, 784 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 3: Like if I hit wall, which I have before, I 785 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 3: can say, Okay, this is what I'm meeting, this is 786 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 3: what I'm dealing with. How can I make the most 787 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 3: of it, and I have in the past been very 788 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 3: good at that. I have made it work, whether maybe 789 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 3: sometimes I've hit rock bottom in order to crawl out, 790 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 3: but like, I have been faced with some things that 791 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 3: have been very difficult for me that I've had to 792 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 3: kind of find my strength in. My expectation for what 793 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 3: I want my life to look like has changed many, 794 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 3: many times. So I'm okay with it changing. 795 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: Not gonna lie. 796 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 3: It's a little exhausting after having to keep reinventing yourself, 797 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 3: but I think life is long and I plan on 798 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 3: living till I'm like one hundred, so I gotta get 799 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 3: used to it. 800 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: You do a lot of TikTok and Instagram social media 801 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: talking about not just pivoting changing but encouraging I think, 802 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: particularly women and particularly in the arts, into rethinking their lives. 803 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: It's really focused on the professional side. Do you think 804 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: that that has become the outlet for you to focus on? 805 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 3: Really interesting thing that happened when I went back to 806 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 3: Wicked was there was like these couple waves, right. The 807 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 3: first wave was, oh my gosh, software engineer a broadway 808 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 3: that makes no sense, But like, if I can show 809 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 3: other people that it's okay and that there is a 810 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 3: world where you can do multiple things right, where the 811 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 3: thing that your college self decided you wanted to do 812 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 3: for the rest of your life doesn't have to be 813 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 3: the thing you do for the rest of your life. 814 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 3: And if there is a way to find value in 815 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 3: yourself alongside your journey as an artist, so you're not 816 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 3: constantly seeking it from somebody else, why not find that 817 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 3: That was just not ever a thing that anybody presented 818 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 3: to me as an idea when I was younger, Right, 819 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 3: it was like struggle, starve, weight tables, and then you're 820 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 3: going to be a star, right, and that's going to 821 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:40,240 Speaker 3: be your story. 822 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: And like we like. 823 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 3: Promote those stories all the time. We love to talk 824 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 3: about them. The girl who who was waiting tables and 825 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 3: got discovered and now she's whatever, and we love that story. 826 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,399 Speaker 3: But it's just like it's not going to be everybody's story. 827 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 3: It's not going to be most people's stories. So finding 828 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 3: ways to like be confident in your life by having 829 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 3: that Maso's hierarchy of needs, having good health and comforts 830 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 3: and things so that you don't have to worry about 831 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 3: just like the baseline things, so that you can achieve 832 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 3: your greatests. Whatever. 833 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: Well, Thank you so much, Carl it'sen great to have 834 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: you on. 835 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. 836 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: Carla still works in tech and recently started working for Spotify. 837 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: She lives in Chicago with her husband and they're both 838 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: happy after pivoting out of the theater industry. Oh, Carla 839 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: still dabbles in her own Broadway roots from time to time. 840 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 1: You can follow Carla on TikTok and Instagram at stickler 841 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: Carla and hear more about her journey with fertility, life 842 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: and tech and a little Broadway gossip from time to time. 843 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of 844 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: she Pivots, where I talk with women about how their 845 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: experiences and significant personal events led to their pivot and 846 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: eventually their success. Be sure to follow us on Instagram 847 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: at she Pivots the podcast and leave a rating in 848 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: comment if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn 849 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: about it. A special thank you to our partner Marie 850 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: Claire and the team that made this episode possible. Talk 851 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: to you next week. She Pivots is hosted by me 852 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: Emily Tish Sussman, produced by Emily Eda Voloshik, with sound 853 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 1: editing and mixing from Nina Pollock and research and planning 854 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: from Christine Dickinson and Hannah Cousins. 855 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 2: I endorse she pivots