WEBVTT - Greg Daniels - Pt. 3 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:04.600 We've all felt left out, and for people who moved 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.120 to this country, that feeling last more than a moment. 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.000 We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.760 us dot org. Brought to you by the AD Council. 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.120 Give us the over attention. We need everything you've got fast. 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.320 Waiting on Reparations would beat the illes podcast. Tune in 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.680 every Thursday politics and wordplay. We fight for the people 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:26.759 because they got us in the worst way, from the 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:30.000 Hill Cooper, the Bomb Bay to Kanya, from the left 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:34.320 enclave to what the neo kanz. Every Thursday heading conversation 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.080 and to break us off with some break because we're 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:40.360 waiting the reparations. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on I 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.040 Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.880 I'm Joe Piazza, host of the podcast Under the Influence. 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:51.720 If you tuned into our last season, you know that 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:56.720 the world of mom influencers on Instagram contains multitudes. Yes, 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.080 there are pretty pictures and gorgeous kids, and yes there 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.320 is lots of money behind a lot of those pictures. 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.120 But there's also something much more dark and complicated going 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:08.840 on in the background, and that speaks to everything that 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:10.839 is wrong with how we treat women in the world. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.120 On season two of Under the Influence, we're advocating for 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.920 the women who make content and the women who consume it. 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.560 We're going into some of the darkest corners of the 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:23.000 social media universe, and we might just have a plan 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:27.360 to shut it all the hell down. Listen to season 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.920 two of Under the Influence with Joe Piazza on the 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.119 I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:42.280 your podcasts. Hi. I'm Greg Daniels. I was the showrunner 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:54.720 of the Office. Hello, Hello everybody. Thank you for diving 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:59.720 in to another episode of The Office Deep Dive. See 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.800 what I did there. I am your host Brian baumb Gartner, 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:07.880 and I am so thankful that you are here. Yes, 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.120 for those of you listening in real time, it is 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.600 Thanksgiving week here in the States, and I love this 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.560 time of year truly. The Crisp Air my Birthday, the 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:28.239 Fall Leaves, my Birthday Football. It is the best, all right. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.079 And as I mentioned last week, working on this podcast 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.480 with some of my favorite people and the whole entire 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.639 world has just been well, it's hard to put into words, 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:44.600 but it is definitely The thing that I am most 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:50.040 thankful for this thanksgiving my family aside, of course, but 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:56.280 know this my podcast, this podcast, it has truly changed 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.240 my life. And the other thing that, without question chin 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:05.200 has changed my life. Who I'm so thankful to be 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:11.920 talking to today is our showrunner Greg Daniels. His brilliance, 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:19.160 his mentorship, his general aura of greatness. I am just 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:24.600 so happy and feel so blessed that this man is 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.240 a part of my life. So I'm going to bring 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:32.120 you today the last part of my conversation with Greg. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.840 As you know, he was the creator of the Office, 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.600 and he has gone on to make Parks and Wreck 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.880 and Upload and Space Force and so much more. He 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.400 also wrote the forward of our new book, Welcome to 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.920 dunder Mifflin, So if you get a chance, go check 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.920 that out. But it was important for me that on 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:56.520 this week of giving thanks, that I give thanks to 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:04.840 my boss of almost a decade. And while famously Michael 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:10.680 Scott was the world's best boss, everything he knew he 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:15.440 learned from Greg Daniels. Is that a compliment? I don't know, 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:21.120 but anyway, give it up for the best boss on 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:32.320 the entire planet the galaxy. The incomparable Greg Daniels, Bubble 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:39.440 and Squeak. I love it Bubble and Squeak on Bubble 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:54.760 and Squeaker Cookie every month, left over from the night before. Okay, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.760 well here's kind of a fun one. So you worked with, um, 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:07.200 Steve Carroll, Yeah, John Krasinski, Rain Wilson, and well myself 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.040 and Um, I've heard it has been said that your 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:16.760 favorite actor of all time is Paul Lieberstein. Paul is 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.120 very good. I mean, I'm certainly not gonna say anything 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.480 negative about Paul. I don't want to rank you guys. 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.400 I don't think that's fair. But Paul is like it 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.880 didn't expect him to be so good, you know, but 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.360 he basically just filled in at the table read in 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.880 season one, and Kevin would go to the table reads 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.559 and Paul got laughs and Kevin was like, what happened 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.360 to that guy with the red hair? You know? Put 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.800 him in more. And that's how he got on the 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:46.000 show pretty much. But he always had an interesting attitude 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.080 about it. And you know, Paul is like a jazz vibraphonist. 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.719 Uh and I feel like something about that jazz timing 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.520 was in his performance and was like a little bit unusual. Yeah, 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.280 I know, he's great, but I don't want to say, like, uh, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.520 anybody's better than anybody else. Why did you Why did 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:10.719 you choose Paul and Jen to run the show after 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.799 when when you left to go to Parks. Well, Um, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:19.240 the interesting thing about making the writer's performers is that 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.520 that kind of bites you a little bit. Like season one, 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.640 we wrote all the scripts, we shot all the shows, 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.680 and then I went into editing and just did full 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.480 time editing. And that was great because you could be 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:37.080 physically presented everything. It was really fun. And that was when, 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.640 you know, Paul became a character, Mindy became a character. 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.720 B J was always a character, and there was no 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.840 downside to that. Season two we start and then those 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.240 guys go off to the set and I'm suddenly looking around. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.080 I've got like half the staff, you know. I got 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.359 Mike and Jen and Lee Gene and that's it. Everybody 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.760 else is on set, you know, and then they'd show up. Obviously, 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.520 still did great stuff and wrote great episodes and everything, 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.320 but there were times when the room was a little 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:10.000 bit thin because they were acting. And Mike was a 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:14.679 very mature, full package, like he could produce, he could write, 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.320 and he wasn't one of the main characters. And I 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.360 also felt very much responsible to the cast and to Steve, 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.920 And if Steve was not going to go do movies 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:26.840 and bug out and was going to stick with it, 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.960 I didn't want to be the guy who was, you know, 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.040 gonna do something to detriment the show, right, So I 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.920 didn't want to. I haven't be like, oh, you can't 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.360 find me into your pall on set because they're doing 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.520 a spin off or whatever and it and I guess 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.320 Mike had worked there for four years and he was 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.320 going to go anyway, do you know what I mean. 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:49.200 It's not like he was gonna put the rest of 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.640 his career working there. He was pretty icious and headed places. 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.640 So I felt like he would be a good choice 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.320 to do it because I could set it up with 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.160 him and then he could run it and I could 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:06.720 still see the office room. So and we had different ideas, 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.800 like the parks is the idea of okay, it's mockumentary. 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.320 Instead of being about business in the private sector, it's 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:17.120 about the public sector. But at the same time, I 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.560 had an idea that I thought was good, which was 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:27.360 all right, workplace is a good genre of TV. Comedy, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.320 but an even bigger genre is family show. What about 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:36.200 a mockumentary about a family show? And I had a 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:40.120 plan after Mike was going to spin off and do Parks. 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.080 I was going to do a show with Jen and 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.520 we were going to do the family sitcom one and 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.160 we had worked it out ed Helms was gonna maybe 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.160 be the lead with Catherine Tate as his wife, and 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.319 they were, and it was going to be the mocumentary 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.400 looking at a cul de sac, some kind of suburban 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.520 cul de sac. And then Modern Family came out and 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.560 you know, was huge hit. That kind of put the 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:10.640 end to that plan, right. Mike Sure said about being 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:14.600 asked to go and develop Parks and Wreck, they basically 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.440 said that it feels like m Mozart told me he 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:23.559 wants to design a piano with me. It's not Steinway, 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.800 Moats are boats are designing a piano. Let's are very 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:32.640 incompetent piano maker, but still somebody who probably should follow. 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.560 But yeah, that's cool, that's nice. Yeah, it was. It 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.120 was certainly fun to do Parks. I mean we you know, 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.959 we're so close to the office that we thought Parks 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.680 was just completely different. I mean, like we didn't see 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.840 it as having any bearing at all on the office, 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.160 Like we got a female and it's a completely you know, 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.360 different world and everything. And of course, in the same 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.680 way like it took season one too be able to 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.240 get free of the English show, you know, like season 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.199 one Parks was too close probably still and I think 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.160 we figured that out. We didn't have a pilot because 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.079 Ben was now running NBC and Ben hooked us straight 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:19.320 to series for Parks, and so by the time we 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:21.920 looked at the footage of the pilot, we already shooting 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.600 episode three or something from Parks. But we kind of 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:32.120 steered it around. Part of it was I remember thinking, like, Okay, 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.600 it's not all about a crazy central character. It's more 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:41.400 like thirty Rock maybe, where the central character is surrounded 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.120 by crazy and like when we kind of made that adjustment, 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.959 it seemed to work better. But but Amy's like very 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.800 different from Steve. She's a different type of performer and 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.480 what way, well, like I don't think she can hide 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.319 her intelligence. Like one of to me, one of Steve's 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:06.240 um real gifts is you can stare at his face 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.559 and he's doing something really stupid and you can't tell 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.079 that he is aware that is stupid, you know what 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:18.240 I mean. He completely hides his intelligence, and Amy probably 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.640 could if she wanted to, but chooses not to, and 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.880 she just she doesn't hide it. And I think maybe 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:25.520 it's also being a woman, you know what I mean. 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.200 It's like it means something different to hide your intelligence. 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.680 It's more retro and you know, uncool, probably to hide 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.920 your intelligence as a woman. So it didn't fit great 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.360 to have her play naive. She had to be a 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.680 little smarter. What do you think was the bigger loss, 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:54.840 Michael or Steve? Huh wow? Oh yeah, well, um, I 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.839 do think that when we said goodbye to Steve, it 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:03.679 became really clear how much the crew loved him, and 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:08.400 the stories from different crew members was really sweet. I 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:12.080 mean I remember like when forty year old Virgin was 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.720 still in theaters and he was the biggest movie star 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:20.679 in the country, and we were shooting I think the Dundee's, 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.520 and um, we were in a parking lot like of 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.920 a defunct Black Angus. It's two or three in the morning, 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.880 and his entire role is to drive the car away 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.880 from Jenna after saying his line. And he's doing it 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.360 at three in the morning. Take after take after take 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.640 to support her in that scene where so many people 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.280 would have been like, yeah, yeah, put the photo double in. Goodbye, 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:48.960 And I'm doing a show with him now. I'm doing 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:50.880 Space Force with him now, and he's number one on 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.360 the call sheet. Same deal. We just had our rat party. 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.160 The crew came up to me. They were all like, 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.040 it starts at the top. The vibe on the set 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:01.440 is so beautiful and everybody, you know, such a great 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:05.200 feeling and and everything. But you know, one of the 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.040 things that I got out of working with Steve was 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.640 like I didn't really have an improv background, you know 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.600 what I mean. Like I had come from Sketch Comedy 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:19.640 and then Simpson's. And when we started working together, he 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.280 told me about this book Truth and Comedy, which is 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.360 kind of like the bible of the Chicago improv world. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.240 And I found that to be really the key to 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.800 kind of how he worked, and it saved us a 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.960 bunch of times. When one of my favorite memories of 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.400 Steve as a producer or as a you know, not 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:45.120 as an actor, is we were doing Dundee's and the 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.120 problem was we went to a Black Angus and then 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.800 we went to to Chili's restaurant, and we didn't actually 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.120 get any money for it. You know, it's not like 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.080 what they paid us a lot of money to use Chili's. 0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:00.360 What they did was they sent us their branded decorations 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.040 for set deck. So we say, yeah, we've got the 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.880 menus and we got some signs and stuff. Anyway, so 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.240 we're there. We're at this defunct black Angus for three 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.599 days shooting with all the chili stuff, and like on 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:16.760 day two, the Chili's lawyers call and they go, oh, hey, 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.400 we just looked at the script, the part where Pam 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.960 is so drunk she throws up. That's not gonna work 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:28.400 for us. We're being sued for overserving patrons and we can't. 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.880 Uh that's a bad look, so you can't do that. 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.920 And I was like cocky at this point. I was like, yeah, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.160 well we're shot two thirds of our shoot, you know. 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.880 And I turned to the Universal executives and I was like, well, 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.280 check the contract with the Chilis because obviously, you know, 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.800 they don't have editorial control. And they're like, uh, there's 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.800 no contract. There's no written contract. We just thought we'd 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.440 say fifty dollars of set deck, and we just did 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.400 it on a handshake. So then we were like, well, wait, wait, wait, wait, 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.480 what do we do? What do we do? And they 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.120 were like, well, you don't have to take that note, 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.680 but in that case, you can't show any of the 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.120 branded set decoration that we sent you, which meant that 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.640 we would have had to shoot go back to the 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:14.800 beginning and not used the two days that we already shot, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:16.840 which we couldn't afford, right because it was hundreds of 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.120 thousands of dollars. So I was like getting ill in 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.280 the corner, freaking out, and Steve notices and it's like, 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.160 what's up? And I told him the situation and the 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.000 thing that was so cool to me was this improv thing, 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.360 like he had utter faith always that he would his 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.600 creativity would never flag, that he would be able to 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.520 find an answer when it was necessary, Like that's what 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.400 all that improv training was. And I completely shot down. 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.360 I was like going to blow my brains out, and 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.840 he was like okay, all right, well all right, and 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.280 then he came up with this notion of the manager 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.560 being interviewed and saying that Pam had a lifetime band 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.360 from Chili's and it solved everything. And I really was like, 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.520 huh that's a different way to live than I'm used to. 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.000 You know, the overthing here doesn't doesn't do that right. 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.720 I had all my plans had just been thrown for 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.960 a loop, and uh so I feel like I try 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.080 to take that away. I think it's like a little 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:19.840 bit of a religion for him to be an improv guy. 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.680 It's a hard time for hiring, so you need a 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:30.080 hiring partner built for hard times. That's Indeed. 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Indeed 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:54.359 dot Com slash office deep Dive terms and conditions apply. 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:59.960 Need to hire you need Indeed. Hey, it's Jake Halpern here. 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.240 If you've ever wondered what it's like to make a 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.720 true crime podcast like deep Cover, well, now's your chance 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.320 to find out. Join me and my friend Dana Goodyear, 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.560 who's the host of Pushkin's Lost Hills podcast, on March 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:18.280 sixteen for a digital conversation on true crime storytelling. We'll 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.480 talk about how we make our stories dramatic and accurate, 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.240 and how we navigate all the ethical dilemmas that we 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:28.000 face in the process. Get your tickets now at moment 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:33.080 house dot com backslash d c l H. That's moment 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:39.159 House dot com slash d c l H. What grows 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.679 in the forest trees? Sure? No? What else grows in 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.520 the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.840 family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:57.000 and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.800 forest is closer than you think. Find a forest in 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.360 you and start exploring. I discovered the fourth dot Org 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.240 brought to you by the United States Fourth Service and 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:21.360 the AD Council. What do you remember about because you 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:26.080 obviously you came back for Goodbye Michael? Um? How did 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:29.280 you feel writing him off? I mean, did you did 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.320 you feel like the show was going to should go 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.520 on past him? Um? Yeah, I did, because you know, 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:43.080 part of the painful part of my job is as 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.600 the showrunner, you're not done when the rap right. You've 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.320 got to go edit all of the things. So, like 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:51.560 at least the third maybe more of my job was 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.280 sitting with the editors cutting the show down and it 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.720 then it made a huge difference in our show because 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.119 our rough cuts were thirty eight minutes long and we 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.240 had to get down to only one oh three or whatever. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.000 So um, that's an enormous amount to throw out, and 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.600 it was very painful because we could get the show 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.760 down to twenty six minutes or something with with just 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.800 cutting the fat, but then after that you got to 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.320 cut the muscle. You know, there's good scenes that are 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.600 not going to be broadcast. And you know, once we 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.040 got five or six years into the show, the full 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:29.880 ensemble was really working and capable of doing really good stuff. 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.719 And so the best argument to me to continue was 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.359 it would let all these people who didn't have as 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.800 much screen time have more screen time. And Steve didn't 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:44.640 obviously didn't want us to shut down, so I kind 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.439 of felt like it was it was good that we 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:53.040 would do. Okay, Now, the difficulty is that people are 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.639 not created to be leads, and you know, all that 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.960 stuff that I was saying in the beginning of positioning 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:03.800 Steve in season two and finding you know, ways that 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.199 he uh has good intentions and is more of a 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:13.520 lead and everything, Like I knew the Dwight had been 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.320 created to be the foil to these people and was 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:23.240 a charactery creation to begin with. Andy Bernard was created 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:27.159 to be the Stanford version of Dwight. You know, in 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:31.919 season three, like, uh, you know, Jim shows up in 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:35.960 Stanford and he's got this weirdo who's like a preppy weirdo, 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.640 like a different type of weirdo, and um and well, 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.200 and also he was an idiot, like unlike Dwight, who 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.119 you know, Dwight was an idiot in his own way, 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.720 but I mean, like sorry bad at his job, Like 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.000 he had been positioned as being not good at his job. 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.440 He was very good at his job. He punched holes 0:21:56.480 --> 0:22:00.560 in walls, you know, he wouldn't needed a lot of 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:03.719 It's the same kind of moving the character over that 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.399 we did in season two, and I believe Paul was 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.119 doing that with Andy, but it was different because we 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.919 were Everybody was paying close attention to the show at 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.439 that point, so there was definitely a lot of Like 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:16.800 there was a lot of for some reason. The thing 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.680 with the Office is like people get super into it obviously, 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.400 which is great, but then there's then there's so much 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:26.280 attention and worry about changing it or touching it or 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:30.320 you know, don't touch my my beloved thing. Right, So 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:34.000 in the same way there was all this negative attention 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:36.240 about adapting the British show. I think that there was 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:39.840 a lot of you know, worry about making any changes 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.280 to it, right. Well, but I think you you think 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.159 of the office right as this place of stasis, right, 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:48.000 and we're all there in one room, and there's the 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.560 whole bullpen and everybody's there all the time, and it's 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:53.040 all the same. But I think one of the special 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:57.320 things that you did was you created sort of a 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:02.560 kinetic energy by change, by constantly changing it and not 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:06.119 keeping it the same. Bringing in the Stanford branch and 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:09.119 Ed and Rashida, or Jenna leaving and going to art 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:12.320 school or so much of that was being driven by 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:16.520 Pam and Jim and the romantic storyline and the way 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:21.240 those two characters were set up. They were soulmates. And 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:26.720 what I didn't want to do was, like so many shows, 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:29.760 they come together, they break apart, they come together, they 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:32.639 break apart. You know, it didn't seem real. I felt like, 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:34.960 when they finally get together, they're gonna be together. I 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:38.400 don't see anything breaking them up. So then the question was, well, 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:40.520 how do you spin this out for a certain number 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:45.600 of years? Right? So, um, you know, so a lot 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.159 of it was what are the obstacles? And we you know, 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.119 when I was trying to figure out what came next 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:54.680 in the show. I didn't have an entire season broken. 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:57.000 I would be able to have about a half a 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:04.360 season arct out. And the thought with Pam and Jim was, okay, 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:09.000 you know, season one, she's obviously with Roy. Well, actually, 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:12.399 season one, the only kind of thing was he was 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:15.920 obviously pining, and then he starts dating first girl, right right, 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:20.479 So season two she's with Roy and he's getting closer 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:24.760 and closer to confessing his feelings and he rolls the dice. 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:27.920 And you always feel like when you're watching a TV show, 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:30.639 you you're worry about the yank, you know, that's what 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:33.960 we call it in the writer's room, where the jeopardy 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.000 of the episode is something you don't really believe because 0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:39.360 it would change the show. You know, like you don't 0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:43.359 really believe like Rain is going to go work for Staples. 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:45.040 Why it's going to leave the show. It's like, no, 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:46.800 he's too important to the show. You're not gonna set 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:49.560 him the Staples. So we set up the situation where 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:51.920 Jim was like, well, maybe I should take that job 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:56.240 in Stanford, and um, we were like, is that a yank? 0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:58.200 I don't know. We're worried, is that a yank? And 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:00.919 then we were like, let's let's put him in Stanford, 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:04.520 you know, let's really make it happen, and that'll give 0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:08.000 us a whole new lease on the Jim Pam thing 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:10.760 because it's a new obstacle, and that cooled it off 0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:12.960