1
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

2
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,560
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at

3
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,959
Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Appo, car Play, and then Roun Auto

4
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,080
Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business app Listen on demand wherever you

5
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,760
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

6
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 2: I have to say here in Washington, we're still paying

7
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,160
Speaker 2: a lot of attention to what's happening up in New

8
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 2: York because big news from Governor Kapi Hochel today, Joe

9
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:38,199
Speaker 2: indefinitely postponing the congestion pricing tax that was set to

10
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:39,959
Speaker 2: go into effect at the end of this month. That's

11
00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,600
Speaker 2: obviously was going to raise a ton of money, funnel

12
00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 2: it towards transit. Climate activists were happy about it, and

13
00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,320
Speaker 2: yet it also could have had some negative political implications

14
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,040
Speaker 2: potentially for say, vulnerable Democrats in the state of New York.

15
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:53,960
Speaker 2: And a world war factored into this decision.

16
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,560
Speaker 3: That's look, there's some reporting on this. Politico says that

17
00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 3: the call came from Washington. Potentially in a world war,

18
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,960
Speaker 3: pricing is number one issue in the you know, for Democrats,

19
00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,160
Speaker 3: you have this deal with a lawsuit already in place

20
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,680
Speaker 3: from the state of New Jersey. Maybe not a great

21
00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 3: look when you're trying to win a Democratic majority in

22
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,720
Speaker 3: the House. Whether Hakeim Jeffries was directly involved not something

23
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 3: that we can verify. But there's a lot of messaging

24
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 3: coming out of the House right now in the Senate,

25
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:20,240
Speaker 3: as we discussed earlier.

26
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 4: That's why it's good to have Megan Scully with us ED.

27
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 3: It's our congressional coverage here in Washington, d C. As

28
00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,759
Speaker 3: it gets to pick your issue or pick your day, chamber,

29
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 3: pick your party, everyone has a message.

30
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 5: To send the absolutely and we're seeing it in both

31
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,679
Speaker 5: chambers this week. It seems to be a lot of

32
00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,479
Speaker 5: social issues, whether it's on spending bills in the House

33
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,039
Speaker 5: or on votes on contraception and IVF and whatnot that

34
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:44,800
Speaker 5: are planned in the Senate well.

35
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 2: On the contraception the Right to Contraception Act is what

36
00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 2: the Senate is going to be voting on today. Is

37
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,040
Speaker 2: it likely that it will pass or Republicans are going

38
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 2: to not vote for it and say that it was

39
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 2: all just, you know, election year gimmicks on the part

40
00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,800
Speaker 2: of Democrats, even if it could hurt them being on

41
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 2: the record voting against access to contraception.

42
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,040
Speaker 5: I think we're going to see it probably not getting

43
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,560
Speaker 5: the sixty votes necessary. Even if it were to, it

44
00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,880
Speaker 5: would not pass in the House. This bill isn't going anywhere.

45
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,080
Speaker 5: It's a pure messaging bill, and it's something we're going

46
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,359
Speaker 5: to see more and more of in both chambers. Chuck

47
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 5: Schumer himself has said they planned several votes over the

48
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,040
Speaker 5: next several weeks specifically targeting these issues.

49
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,480
Speaker 3: Messaging comes in a lot of different forms. You could

50
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,360
Speaker 3: hold a hearing too, and we see a lot of those.

51
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,120
Speaker 3: That's kind of been a full time occupation for the

52
00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,080
Speaker 3: Judiciary Committee and for the Oversight Committee, whether it's Hunter

53
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,959
Speaker 3: Biden we're talking about in the case of this week

54
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,800
Speaker 3: Merrick Garland, which was kind of the most recent example

55
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 3: of a hearing moving far away from what its intended

56
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 3: purpose originally was just so we could browbeat a member

57
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,639
Speaker 3: of the administration. So we're not making laws, we're making commercials.

58
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,919
Speaker 5: Absolutely, you're seeing campaigning essentially moved to Capitol Hill, even

59
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,840
Speaker 5: though technically they're not to be campaigning from the capital.

60
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,240
Speaker 5: This happens every cycle. This year, given the stakes with

61
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,839
Speaker 5: the presidential election year and both chambers in play, we're

62
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 5: seeing it a little earlier than usual, I think.

63
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 2: Well, given that it is an election year, it also

64
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 2: raises the question around the funding battle to come. Considering

65
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,519
Speaker 2: September thirtieth is the end of the fiscal year, the

66
00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 2: deadline to fund the government for the next one that comes,

67
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,840
Speaker 2: what's five weeks out from election day, So everybody assumes

68
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,679
Speaker 2: that the can will be kicked down the road. And

69
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,400
Speaker 2: yet we are seeing the House, as you suggested earlier,

70
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,160
Speaker 2: trying to move today on at least one appropriation's bill.

71
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 2: Should we take this as a sign that they're getting

72
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 2: ahead on their work or they're just starting what could

73
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 2: be a very bitter partisan fight early.

74
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,040
Speaker 5: I would say starting a bitter partisan fight early. The

75
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 5: bill that passed the House today, the Military Construction and

76
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 5: Veterans Affairs Bill, is the least contentious of all of

77
00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,440
Speaker 5: the spending bills. It's usually the bill that they use

78
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,040
Speaker 5: as the engine to push other spending bills through, and

79
00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 5: it is locked in a bitter part isan debate. The

80
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,000
Speaker 5: White House is threatened to veto it because it cuts

81
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,000
Speaker 5: military construction spending. It also has language and a policy

82
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 5: language strongly opposed by Democrats. To really restrict diversity and

83
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:18,640
Speaker 5: inclusion efforts. It would ban any gender affirming care or

84
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 5: taxpayer dollars being used for gender affirming care at the VA,

85
00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,000
Speaker 5: and a litany of other things that Democrats really oppose

86
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,320
Speaker 5: but that Republicans can use to sell to their base.

87
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 4: The word from Katie Britt was the.

88
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 3: Scary summer, let me get it, the summer of scare

89
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 3: tactics and a campaign of fear mongering. She called this

90
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,119
Speaker 3: vote today on contraception. But that's essentially what we're hearing

91
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,200
Speaker 3: from both parties. They seem to agree on that.

92
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,120
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, I mean they're both equally messaging. Yes, they're

93
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,560
Speaker 5: both equally using their majorities in each chamber to send

94
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,479
Speaker 5: these messages to really mobilize their base and to use

95
00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 5: this for fundraising. You know, we saw last week with

96
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,280
Speaker 5: Trump's conviction and how Republicans were actually both sides were

97
00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:09,440
Speaker 5: able to mobilize quickly on that to rally their bases

98
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 5: to raise money, and we're going to see that on

99
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:13,480
Speaker 5: all of these.

100
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,440
Speaker 2: Very high profile bills that.

101
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,040
Speaker 5: Are not going to become law.

102
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 2: So much to look forward too. Bloomberg's Megan Scully, who

103
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,680
Speaker 2: leads our congressional coverage, thank you so much. And of course, Joe,

104
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,599
Speaker 2: you brought this up with Megan just a moment ago.

105
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,159
Speaker 2: The pretty contentious hearing we saw in the House Judiciary

106
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,440
Speaker 2: Committee yesterday when the Attorney General Mayor Garland was testifying

107
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,400
Speaker 2: in exchanges that sometimes got pretty fiery, including this one

108
00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 2: with Republican Congressman from Florida Matt Gates.

109
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 6: Our concern is that the facts in the law aren't

110
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,200
Speaker 6: being followed. A target is acquired here. Trump.

111
00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,520
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I don't agree with anything you just said,

112
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 4: but I'm not going to comment on it.

113
00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,720
Speaker 6: Okay, so you won't comment on it, mister Attorney General,

114
00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 6: but you had no problem dispatching Matthew Colangelo.

115
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,360
Speaker 4: Who's Matthew Colt is false?

116
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:03,440
Speaker 6: I did not dispatch matth Colangul Matthew Colangelo. Matthew Clangelo.

117
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,039
Speaker 2: For more reaction to what we saw yesterday and what

118
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,760
Speaker 2: we continually see in terms of messaging from Capitol Hill,

119
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,520
Speaker 2: please to say former Congressman Denver Riggleman is with us.

120
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,479
Speaker 2: Of course, We're a Republican from Virginia. Welcome back to

121
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,839
Speaker 2: balance and power. So great to have you back on

122
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,720
Speaker 2: Bloomberg TV and Radio. Whether it is what went down

123
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,359
Speaker 2: in the Judiciary Committee yesterday with Merritt Garland in the

124
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,159
Speaker 2: hot seat, or just what we have heard over the

125
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,960
Speaker 2: course of the last almost week from congressional Republicans in

126
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,240
Speaker 2: the aftermath of Donald Trump's guilty verdict in New York

127
00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 2: last week. What do you make of it all?

128
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,800
Speaker 7: I think, by the way, thanks for having me on again.

129
00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,520
Speaker 7: It's always great to be here with you all. I

130
00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,960
Speaker 7: think when they saw the polling after Trump's conviction, I

131
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,520
Speaker 7: think you're seeing some panic, especially from the questions and

132
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,760
Speaker 7: what you see from people like Matt Gads from Marjorie

133
00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 7: Taylor Green is really not just panic. It's just throwing

134
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,560
Speaker 7: out as much. It's almost like throwing as much opaque

135
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,680
Speaker 7: disinformation or just asking questions, which is what they always

136
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,680
Speaker 7: say in order to get talking points for their own fundraising,

137
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 7: to make sure that they keep President Trump happy at

138
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 7: mar A Lago. And it really has nothing to do

139
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 7: with facts. The issue is is a lot of the

140
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 7: American public can't discern between facts and fiction when you

141
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 7: actually have leaders oh the free world, congressional representatives putting

142
00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 7: that kind of stuff out. But I think what you're

143
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 7: saying really is is panic questioning and panic screaming going

144
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,840
Speaker 7: on from the law of the far right especially those

145
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 7: close to Trump and mar A Lago. And that's what

146
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 7: I make of it, because that's what they do.

147
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:28,240
Speaker 4: Right.

148
00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,520
Speaker 7: You're messaging to your constituency, constituency, not necessarily to the

149
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:33,760
Speaker 7: American public at large.

150
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,200
Speaker 4: Well, i'll tell you, Denver, it's good to have you back.

151
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 3: While we're talking specifically about this Merrick Garland hearing. Yesterday,

152
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 3: Andy Biggs, Chip Roy, Tom Massey, three members of the

153
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 3: Freedom Caucus sent Merrick Garland a letter about January sixth.

154
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 4: I brought this up yesterday.

155
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,560
Speaker 3: I don't mean to belabor it, but you were deeply

156
00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:01,080
Speaker 3: involved in the investigation into the January sixth riots, and

157
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,960
Speaker 3: they'd said in this letter that they wanted to explore

158
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 3: the FBI's possible involvement in facilitating the events of January sixth,

159
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 3: the involvement in facilitating the sacking of the US capital.

160
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,800
Speaker 3: We've heard this from certain members of Congress before that

161
00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 3: there were unmarked vans, that there were FBI agents in

162
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,760
Speaker 3: the crowd trying to stir all of this up. But

163
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,160
Speaker 3: this is now going to be on the record from

164
00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,080
Speaker 3: this hearing. Denver, what do you do with that?

165
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,760
Speaker 7: I think you do exactly what you should do as

166
00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,040
Speaker 7: a sane, rational human as you scoff it and you

167
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,959
Speaker 7: destroy them with facts and data. And the facts and

168
00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 7: data are this. Did they read the over one thousand

169
00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,280
Speaker 7: charging documents? Have they actually read the sentencing guidelines? Have

170
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:46,959
Speaker 7: they seen the evidence? Do they knew the number of

171
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,079
Speaker 7: weapons that were there? Are they really going to go

172
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 7: down this QAnon rabbit hole of a deep state globalist

173
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,280
Speaker 7: false flag, which is exactly what they're inferring, because again

174
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,120
Speaker 7: they're talking to a base that's breathless with this kind

175
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 7: of belief systems.

176
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:03,679
Speaker 4: This is a religion.

177
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,840
Speaker 7: Now, I would say that, you know, when you're talking

178
00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,719
Speaker 7: about J six, when you're talking about QAnon, I think

179
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,199
Speaker 7: what they're trying to do is they're trying to make

180
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,040
Speaker 7: J six people into veterans of some kind of political

181
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,559
Speaker 7: war where they are on the right side of history.

182
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 7: And a lot of that has to do with making

183
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 7: Donald Trump happy. This all goes back to mar A Lago.

184
00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:21,599
Speaker 7: It all goes back to their fundraising, goes back to

185
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 7: their polling, It goes back to cynicism and the very

186
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 7: fact either they're deliberately oubts, either they're stupid right, or

187
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,320
Speaker 7: they're cynical right, and all that is not good for

188
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 7: the American public. But the fact that they're going down

189
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 7: the conspiracy theory rabbit hole in twenty twenty four when

190
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,440
Speaker 7: everything has been debunked and it's absolutely ludicrous. You know,

191
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,080
Speaker 7: maybe they're watching Skinwalk or Ranch too much. You know,

192
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:43,679
Speaker 7: I think maybe that's where we're at right now as

193
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 7: far as these congressional representatives.

194
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,640
Speaker 2: But it's not just members of Congress Denver. You also

195
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,040
Speaker 2: have former President Trump repeatedly referring to those who've been

196
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:59,600
Speaker 2: incarcerated because of their involvement in January sixth as hostages. Especially,

197
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 2: consider this happened three and a half years ago, and

198
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,920
Speaker 2: we are still reltigating the events surrounding it, what exactly happened,

199
00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,680
Speaker 2: who was involved, who was at fault? And this is

200
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,560
Speaker 2: still an ongoing live conversation, and Donald Trump uses language

201
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,320
Speaker 2: like that still to this day repeatedly. Is it too late?

202
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,439
Speaker 2: At this point? We're too far gone for the truth

203
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:20,320
Speaker 2: to really permeate.

204
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 4: It's a great question.

205
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,640
Speaker 7: You know, a lot of this is already baked in,

206
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 7: and I you know, I've been telling people this and

207
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 7: you know we've talked before. The best question, right is

208
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 7: the fact is that that people believe that J six

209
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,800
Speaker 7: was a some peaceful terrorist thing that a couple people

210
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 7: got out of hand. I don't know how we turn

211
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 7: that regardless of evidence, right, And what Trump is saying

212
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 7: to his supporters and what his congressional sick offense are

213
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,560
Speaker 7: saying is, you know, don't believe your lying eyes, believe us.

214
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,560
Speaker 7: You know, you got to remember too, is Donald Trump's

215
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,760
Speaker 7: the same guy who retweeted that you know, Obama and

216
00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,240
Speaker 7: Biden killed Seal Team six. I mean, this isn't a

217
00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 7: guy he's either again completely cynical or no, he's lying,

218
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,839
Speaker 7: an incredible grifter of disinformation, or he's fairly ignorant. Right,

219
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,200
Speaker 7: he definitely has you know, he's one piece of wood,

220
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,600
Speaker 7: shy of accord, right. I mean, that's that's that's the

221
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,000
Speaker 7: only way that you can look at this. And I

222
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 7: think again, we had to be brutally honest about what

223
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,360
Speaker 7: we're seeing as we're seeing disinformation and conspiracy theories being

224
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,280
Speaker 7: propagated from the former president of the United States all

225
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,439
Speaker 7: the way down to congressional members and to leaders of

226
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:19,320
Speaker 7: the Republican Party.

227
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting, you know, Denver, you hear this line

228
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,080
Speaker 3: to take people at their word, you know, believe people

229
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 3: when they show you who they are. Donald Trump is

230
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,480
Speaker 3: talking to Newsmax and float to the possibility of imprisoning

231
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 3: his political opponents if he becomes president.

232
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 4: Again.

233
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,760
Speaker 3: This is not new, he said, not that long ago.

234
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:40,560
Speaker 4: It was in June.

235
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,200
Speaker 3: I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after

236
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 3: the most corrupt president in the history of America, Joe Biden.

237
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,960
Speaker 4: Do you take him at his word?

238
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,320
Speaker 7: Yes, I mean he's you know, he likes to do

239
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 7: what he says. You know, a lot of it's ridiculous

240
00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,760
Speaker 7: and it's half baked. I think what you're going to

241
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,400
Speaker 7: see the difference though, between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty four.

242
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,600
Speaker 7: If you know Donald Trump is to win and it's

243
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,920
Speaker 7: at the cabinet he picks, He's going to value loyalty

244
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 7: over any type of competency. And I think that's what

245
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 7: should worry individuals, is that if anybody like the Cash hotels,

246
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 7: or Rick Rennel's or Mike Flynn's or in the conversation,

247
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,400
Speaker 7: for being in the cabinet, that's a real issue. Or

248
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 7: the Matt gateses right, which has been in the conversation.

249
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,120
Speaker 7: I mean, you have really some of the least talented

250
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,840
Speaker 7: individuals to ever serve in the American government that would

251
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 7: actually be in there and also completely under the thumb

252
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,000
Speaker 7: of Donald Trump and his sycophants. Right, and you see

253
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,080
Speaker 7: the R and C's already bought by so you know,

254
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 7: believe in what they say? How about this though? And

255
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 7: I'm want to ask you all this too, and I

256
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 7: know you're asking me questions. I'm sorry, but you know

257
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,480
Speaker 7: somebody who even says that and doesn't mean it? What's

258
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:37,080
Speaker 7: wrong with them?

259
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 8: Right?

260
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,640
Speaker 7: Is that a joke? Right? And that's the thing too,

261
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,720
Speaker 7: is that you're saying, well, do you believe him? Yes?

262
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,440
Speaker 7: But if he's if he's just spouting bs, why would

263
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,320
Speaker 7: somebody who actually held the highest you know, office in

264
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,920
Speaker 7: the land be saying that anyway? It's it's irresponsible and

265
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 7: it goes to a judgment and maybe he's a band

266
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,000
Speaker 7: stage and maybe he's losing something upstairs.

267
00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 3: That's the not Kaylee, that you hear or the respe

268
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,840
Speaker 3: last of the year's either locker room talk or he's

269
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,600
Speaker 3: joking around. You know, take the man seriously, not the message.

270
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:07,839
Speaker 4: Isn't that the line we used to hear?

271
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 7: Yeahs to have more on that, No, exactly right now,

272
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,400
Speaker 7: I was just listening to you, and that's exactly right.

273
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 7: I mean, you're on it, right, is that then they'll say, well,

274
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,800
Speaker 7: he's just joking, you know. Goodness gracious, you know, they

275
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:25,120
Speaker 7: say the worst, most awful, horrible things that goes after

276
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,319
Speaker 7: the very structures of our American institutions and government, and

277
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,200
Speaker 7: then somehow it's a joke. It's the same thing that

278
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,880
Speaker 7: the in sells pool. It's the same thing that QAnon conspiracy,

279
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,640
Speaker 7: theorist pool. It's just the same thing. And it's just

280
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,679
Speaker 7: the same people doing the same thing and pushing the

281
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:39,680
Speaker 7: same message every day.

282
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,200
Speaker 2: Well, in one of those messages is the unfairness of

283
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 2: the US justice system, the idea that it's being weaponized

284
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,720
Speaker 2: against Donald Trump specifically. And yet a member of the

285
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,839
Speaker 2: Biden family is currently in trial in Delaware, Hunter Biden, Denver,

286
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,679
Speaker 2: we should disclose. I believe you know him quite well,

287
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,120
Speaker 2: but especially given what we have seen the panic you

288
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,040
Speaker 2: were describing in the aftermath of Trump's guilty verdict, what

289
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 2: happens if a Hunter Biden is convicted of these federal

290
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 2: gun crimes with which he's charged, or if he's not,

291
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,280
Speaker 2: if he's found innocent, does that just make all of

292
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:11,840
Speaker 2: this worse.

293
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,959
Speaker 7: You know, I mentioned this a little bit yesterday, and

294
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,520
Speaker 7: again it's pretty interesting. What if he's convicted and goes

295
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,360
Speaker 7: to jail. What if he's convicted and gets probation. What

296
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,800
Speaker 7: if he's convicted and gets community service. What if he's

297
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,160
Speaker 7: convicted and gets counseling, What if he's not convicted. All

298
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,360
Speaker 7: these things I think have different levels of response. What's

299
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,440
Speaker 7: going to be very difficult for any Trump apologist or

300
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 7: messaging if Biden is convicted at all. Number one, Wow,

301
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 7: that's you know, it's going to take away a huge

302
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 7: talking point. And I think, by the way, if we

303
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,160
Speaker 7: can go full circle, I think that's why they're going

304
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,680
Speaker 7: after Merrick Garland. They need another target because the Biden

305
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 7: impeachment stuff is over. It's been proven completely ridiculous. All

306
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 7: the laptop stuff's gone, right, So now what you have

307
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,240
Speaker 7: right now is that they're trying to actually latch onto something.

308
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,120
Speaker 7: But if Biden, if Hunter is actually convicted of this

309
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,080
Speaker 7: gun charge, and you have to let law and order

310
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,320
Speaker 7: take its course, right and President Joe Biden said that too.

311
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 7: He's convicted of this and gets probation, and it's pretty dire.

312
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 7: I think it's going to be very difficult for any

313
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,560
Speaker 7: of the mega types to actually go after it. If

314
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 7: he gets jail time, which would be very unfortunate based

315
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 7: on his addiction and this gun charge, that would be something.

316
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,400
Speaker 7: But you know what I find amazing is that the

317
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 7: Lindsay Grahams and people like that are starting to come

318
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 7: out saying why are they actually going after him based

319
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 7: on this gun charge where I think there's just so many,

320
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 7: so little people have actually been actually prosecuted for this.

321
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,240
Speaker 7: So I think you're seeing a real issue here. Hunter

322
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,800
Speaker 7: could be found guilty if he gets probation or jail time,

323
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 7: I think it's going to be very difficult for the

324
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,520
Speaker 7: Trump acolytes to actually play what's going on with Trump

325
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,200
Speaker 7: in a good way. But if he's innocent, I think

326
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 7: then you're going to see conspiracy theory screaming happening at

327
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,800
Speaker 7: the top of everybody's lungs. I mean, hair on fire, ridiculousness.

328
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 4: Come back and see us and when we get a verdict. Denver.

329
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:51,320
Speaker 4: It's good to see you, Denver.

330
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 3: But I love to talk with Republican congressman from Virginia.

331
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,360
Speaker 3: It's always a pleasure to get you back on Bloomberg

332
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 3: TV and radio. Never a dull moment, Kayley, even when

333
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 3: we're not making laws in Washington.

334
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 4: I think we've learned here today.

335
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, messaging bills.

336
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 3: That's correct, with a lot more word game where those

337
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 3: came from. Stay with us on the Fastest show in Politics.

338
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,760
Speaker 3: Will assemble the panel next Genie Shanze, No, Lisa Camusa

339
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 3: Miller with us today only on Bloomberg.

340
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Can

341
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

342
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 1: ron Oto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also

343
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

344
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

345
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,880
Speaker 2: Up until last Thursday, we were all captivated by the

346
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,760
Speaker 2: proceedings in New York of the first ever criminal trial

347
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 2: of a former president. And of course it was on

348
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 2: Thursday that Donald Trump was found guilty of thirty four

349
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,000
Speaker 2: felony counts of falsifying business records. We know very well

350
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,680
Speaker 2: how Donald Trump feels about this conviction. He plans to

351
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 2: appeal it, He maintains his innocence of these crimes, and

352
00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 2: also continually suggests that this is a persecution political persecution,

353
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 2: that the justice system is being weaponized against him, and

354
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,480
Speaker 2: it raises the question whether he would look to potentially

355
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,119
Speaker 2: weaponize it in return if he does. Indeed, when another

356
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 2: go at the White House come November, he was asked

357
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 2: a question about this in an interview on Newsmax yesterday,

358
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,400
Speaker 2: and this was his response.

359
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 7: Nobody wanted to bring it until I decided to run

360
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 7: and then was beating everybody by a lot, and then

361
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,440
Speaker 7: was beating Biden by a lot.

362
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 1: In the polls.

363
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 4: But you know, it's a very terrible thing.

364
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,040
Speaker 3: It's a terrible precedent for our country.

365
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,600
Speaker 9: Does that mean the next president does it to them?

366
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 4: That's really the question, he said.

367
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,160
Speaker 3: More than that, that's really the question. It's very possible

368
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,920
Speaker 3: that it's going to have to happen to them.

369
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,400
Speaker 4: And this is not new.

370
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 3: Kayley, the former president already said in the wake of

371
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,159
Speaker 3: the document's case being announced, quote, I will appoint a

372
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 3: real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president

373
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,800
Speaker 3: in the history of America, Joe Biden, and go after

374
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,640
Speaker 3: the Biden crime family. Quote, tying in Hunter Biden as

375
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 3: well into the conversation. As we assemble our panel for

376
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,280
Speaker 3: their take on this and Some of the other stories

377
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 3: were following Jeanie Shanzho, Bloomberg Politics contributor and senior Democracy

378
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,879
Speaker 3: Fellow with the Center for the Study of the Presidency

379
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 3: in Congress, joint Today by Lisa Kamuso Miller, Republican strategist,

380
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 3: former communications director at the RNC, host of the Friday

381
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 3: Reporter podcast. I guess we get back to a question

382
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,560
Speaker 3: I already asked Denver Rickleman earlier this hour, Lisa, do

383
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 3: you actually take Donald Trump at his word?

384
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 9: I absolutely do, I absolutely do. I thought Denver's comments

385
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 9: about the former president were absolutely spot on. I thought

386
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 9: that he was right. I think that it's a calculated

387
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 9: mistake that members have made and Republicans have made over

388
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,200
Speaker 9: and over again to not accept him and not take

389
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 9: him for his word. If you and I remember the

390
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 9: three of us, four of us probably were on just

391
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,880
Speaker 9: months ago talking about the fact that the reason why

392
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,120
Speaker 9: people were speculating that Donald Trump got into the race

393
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 9: as early as he did was because he was already

394
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 9: anticipating that they were going to be charges brought against him,

395
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 9: and he was seeing that as an opportunity to perhaps

396
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,360
Speaker 9: make sure that some of that didn't happen to him,

397
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 9: and now, of course it has and he's changing history

398
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 9: just like he always is. He changes the rules and

399
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,720
Speaker 9: he changes the sort of the facts to his own benefits.

400
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 9: So yes, I think we should accept him for his

401
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 9: word at his word, and I think that it's the

402
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,159
Speaker 9: challenge that I think Republicans are going to have to

403
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 9: make over and over again about how much they defend

404
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,360
Speaker 9: what he has to say, because he keeps saying these

405
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 9: things that are concerning and that are worried. So the

406
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 9: American people don't want more investigations. What they want is

407
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 9: for the American electeds to get back to work and

408
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 9: to help them with the issues that they are elected

409
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 9: to fix. Right, And so this just becomes another back

410
00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,880
Speaker 9: and forth between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, and it's

411
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 9: going to continue to go on. As I mentioned earlier

412
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 9: in the broadcast, is that this is the kind of

413
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,600
Speaker 9: election that we're going to see over and over again,

414
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 9: the back and forth and Donald Trump creating sort of

415
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 9: these stories that are going to be ones that we

416
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 9: have to respond to.

417
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 2: Well, Genie, when we considered the prospects of this actually

418
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 2: happening should Donald Trump win in November, isn't this just

419
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 2: as much about who he surrounds himself with, who would

420
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,119
Speaker 2: be leading Donald Trump's Department of Justice as attorney general.

421
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 10: Absolutely, and he said that, he said, you get the

422
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 10: right person in there. He equated it to getting the

423
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 10: right builder, the right contractor in place, you can do

424
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 10: great things, he said. And so this is another one

425
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 10: of those norms that Donald Trump has said that he

426
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 10: will break if he goes back to the White House

427
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 10: and the you know, when you think about it, this

428
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,240
Speaker 10: is not just Donald Trump. And I want to stress

429
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 10: that you are hearing it all throughout his base, from

430
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,680
Speaker 10: Steve Bannon, who is a big voice for Donald Trump's base,

431
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 10: who are talking about prosecuting and jailing Alvin Bragg the

432
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 10: Manhattan DA. You're also hearing calls for demo for Republican

433
00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 10: rather red state public officials das if you will to

434
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 10: start charging democratic public officials. So this is a real possibility,

435
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,719
Speaker 10: and I would just stress it is much much bigger

436
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 10: than Donald Trump, although he is certainly the leader at

437
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 10: this point in terms of this movement.

438
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 3: Yet Genie, referring to comments from Steve Bannon talking with Axios, Kaylee,

439
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 3: pretty remarkable here about Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, the quote.

440
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 4: Of course Bragg.

441
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 3: Should be and will be jailed, he said in this interview,

442
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 3: pointing to the fourteenth Amendment, equal protection, the fourth Amendment

443
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 3: outlawing unreasonable searches and seizures, plus quote scores of other laws. Genie,

444
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 3: should the Manhattan DA prepare to go to jail if

445
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 3: Donald Trump selected?

446
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 10: You know, I hope not. I have big questions and

447
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 10: challenges with the prosecution, but you know that is not

448
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 10: the response. But this is the reality we are living

449
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 10: in and you're hearing this. And the fact is Steve

450
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 10: Bannon has a big microphone, as do so many other

451
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 10: people who are making these cases. I will just point

452
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 10: to the head of the Federalists, for instance, who has

453
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 10: made similarly really upsetting and frustrating comments. And so I

454
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 10: think people have to think about this as they go

455
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 10: to the ballot box and have a choice that many

456
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 10: Americans aren't happy about between Biden and Trump.

457
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,360
Speaker 2: Well, and one of the reasons many Americans aren't happy

458
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 2: about those choices is because the majority of them both

459
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 2: think these candidates are simply too old. But that seems

460
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 2: to be a problem much larger for Joe Biden, who

461
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 2: is eighty one, and perhaps that problem exacerbated by reporting

462
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 2: today in the Wall Street Journal, the headline reading behind

463
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 2: closed Doors, Biden shows signs of slipping now. In the

464
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 2: context of the article, while they detail a number of

465
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 2: meetings that happen at the White House, characterizations largely from

466
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: Republicans about how those went down, it does say most

467
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 2: of those who said Biden performed poorly were Republicans, though

468
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 2: some Democrats said he showed his age in several of

469
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: the exchanges. So, Lisa, we have to consider that there

470
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: are caveats in this reporting. Even Nancy Pelosi, the speaker Ofmerita,

471
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: suggested a number of Democrats spent time with the Wall

472
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: Street Journal and did not have their views adequately expressed.

473
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: But isn't this damaging?

474
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 9: Nonetheless, it's absolutely damaging. But this is the Wall Street Journal,

475
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 9: which to me is another sort of outreach in another

476
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 9: sort of voice that people look to for Republican points

477
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 9: of view. Regardless of how you feel about the journal

478
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 9: or how you feel about the ownership of the journal,

479
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 9: it is one of those things that people are starting

480
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 9: to say, maybe that's a little bit irresponsible for them

481
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 9: to have talked about that and not necessarily about how

482
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 9: his administration is governing. But there's other questions about all

483
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 9: of this, right, I mean, we have to consider the

484
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 9: fact that people are starting to think about either one

485
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 9: of these candidates. I think the reality is that either

486
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 9: one of these candidates stands a chance of not making

487
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 9: it through the next world. And that means we have

488
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 9: to consider who is their vice president, and who is

489
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 9: underneath them, and who is working with them in their

490
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 9: in their cabinet, and those kinds of things are even

491
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 9: unknown on the Republican side at this point.

492
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 3: Well, it is interesting here, as the article notes itself, quote,

493
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: most of those who said Biden performed poorly were Republicans unquote.

494
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 3: The White House genie with a statement calling the claims

495
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 3: quote false and politically motivated. But does it matter or

496
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 3: is this welcome to the NFL.

497
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 10: It's campaign season? You know, I think that the journal

498
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 10: can be questioned for only quoting Republicans. Sure, the White

499
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 10: House and others are trying to spin this as a

500
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 10: political hit job, but I would just suggest that you

501
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 10: look at those two reporters, those two journalists, There is

502
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 10: nothing about their past work that suggests a political hit job.

503
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 10: Annie Lynsky in particular about both of them, and I

504
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 10: have a lot of respect for both of them. The

505
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 10: fact is that Wall Street Journal is not alone today.

506
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 10: There is also a transcript out from a Time magazine

507
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 10: interview the president did, which is raising big, big questions

508
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 10: amongst people. And you can criticize the Biden team and

509
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 10: Joe Biden for not being accessible to the press to

510
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 10: the extent that they should, which is helping fuel these problems. So,

511
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 10: you know, I am not sure I think all of

512
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 10: the Democratic pushback on this. I really raised questions about

513
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 10: Just yesterday, the House was talking about release the her interview.

514
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 10: Why not? I still don't understand. Why not release it?

515
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 10: It suggests that it is that bad. So I think

516
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 10: the White House is walking into this. I am not

517
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 10: suggesting there's truth to the fact of what people are

518
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 10: saying about Joe Biden, but please make yourself more accessible.

519
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 10: It makes the debate much more important. Talk to the

520
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 10: You are president of the United States. You've done very

521
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 10: good things, and the American public deserve that because quite frankly,

522
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 10: you're in your eighties running for president and asking for

523
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 10: another four years. So but I just mostly want to

524
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 10: say that those journalists have my respect, and this is

525
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 10: the you know, something that I have a problem with

526
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 10: the attacks on the journalists in particular.

527
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: Very well, said Jeanie Shanzeno. Thank you so much for

528
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: joining us alongside Lisa Camuso Miller today our wonderful political panel.

529
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: Great to have both of you, and of course Jow.

530
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: We should point out Genie's in New York, Lisa's from

531
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: New Jersey. There's been a lot of news in that region.

532
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 2: Today is local pauses the conjection congestion tax.

533
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: That's right, they had the gantries already up there. Yes,

534
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 3: we're supposed to start June thirtieth. Now it's an indefinite Wait.

535
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 3: What are the chances this might be scheduled for after November?

536
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: I wonder it's an excellent question as we consider the

537
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 2: implications for all of the incumbent representatives in the state

538
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 2: of New York.

539
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

540
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and roud

541
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: Otto with a Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

542
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

543
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us here on Bloomberg TV

544
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 3: and Radio. The fastest show in politics, Live from Washington

545
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: with a vote that we are anticipating later today in

546
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: the US Senate on the Right to Contraception Act. We've

547
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 3: been talking about this a bit today because it's being

548
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 3: looked at as a messaging bill. Democrats say it would

549
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 3: make it federal law that an individual has the right

550
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 3: to obtain contraceptives and engage in contraception. Kaylee, I'm not

551
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 3: sure this would even be an issue if Donald Trump

552
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 3: hadn't said in that interview that he might move to

553
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 3: outlaw contraception, but then he walked that back. The fact

554
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 3: of the matter is we're anticipating a really important ruling

555
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: on Miffa Pristo on the abortion pill from the US

556
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 3: Supreme Court.

557
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's due by the end of the term. So

558
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: we should have an answer on that from the High

559
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: Court by the end of June. But all of this,

560
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: Joe spells out how just confusing the law can be

561
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: in many cases in a post Dobbs America since the

562
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: overturning of Roe versus Wads. So we wanted to get

563
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 2: some expert insight into this, and please to say joining

564
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: us as Mary Sigler, she is Martin Luther King, Junior

565
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 2: Professor of Law at the University of California at Davis

566
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: and the author of a number of books, including Roe,

567
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: The History of a National Obsession. Professor, welcome back to

568
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 2: Bloomberg TV and Radio. It's great to have you. Can

569
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: I first just ask you, considering that this has probably

570
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 2: very little likelihood of becoming law, even if it got

571
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: through the Senate, probably wouldn't pass the House. If it

572
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: doesn't become law, is there not legal protection nationally for

573
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: contraception in a post row America?

574
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 11: There is right? So the Supreme Court hasn't overruled its

575
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 11: decisions on the right to contraception from nineteen sixty five

576
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 11: in nineteen seventy two. I think the reason there's been

577
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 11: some anxiety about it is because the logic of the

578
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 11: Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe v. Wade essentially said, we

579
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 11: only have rights that were recognized as rights at the

580
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 11: time the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified. And if that's how

581
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 11: the Supreme Court is actually going to approach rights going forward,

582
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 11: no one would have thought there was a right to

583
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 11: use contraception in eighteen sixty eight or eighteen sixty five. Right,

584
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 11: it was at pretty much precisely that time that states

585
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 11: were actually criminalizing access to contraception for the first time.

586
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 11: So I think there's some fear that down the road,

587
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 11: the Court may reconsider its rulings on contraception. There's also

588
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 11: some concern that states are redefining contraception. In other words,

589
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 11: there are concerns that conservatives believe that the morning after

590
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 11: pillas in abortifation, or the birth control pillas in abortifation

591
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 11: or iud's are abortifations. And so while they may not

592
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 11: pass laws banning contraception, they may pass laws redefining contraception

593
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 11: in ways that threaten access to common FDA approved drugs.

594
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 3: Well, as we've seen so many states act in the

595
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 3: wake of the Row ruling. What's your take on this

596
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 3: actual piece of legislation. Is this something that's necessary on

597
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: the federal level.

598
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 11: Well, I'm kind of torn about it because, I mean,

599
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 11: on the one hand, to your point, this is obviously

600
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 11: a messaging bill. I think Democrats have introduced this bill

601
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 11: in part because they know Republicans will vote against it.

602
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 11: But at the same time, the fact that Republicans will

603
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 11: vote against it is revealing in and of itself, right,

604
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 11: I Mean, we've seen the equivalent strategy unfolding at the

605
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 11: state level, as many state right to contraception bills have

606
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 11: also been defeated in state legislatures by Republicans who claim

607
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 11: to support the right to contraception. Now, some of the

608
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 11: Republican responses to simply say there's no need for these

609
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,239
Speaker 11: bills because the right to contraception is already protected, and

610
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 11: that's true as far as it goes. But the same

611
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 11: also applied to same sex marriage, and Congress did pass

612
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 11: protections for same sex marriage, even as Republicans claim that

613
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 11: those protections were unnecessary. I think the reason you're seeing

614
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 11: a different response from Republicans to some extent is because

615
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 11: some of their constituents are either worried about what they

616
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 11: view as conscience based objections raised by conservative Christians who

617
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 11: don't support contraception, or they're concerned about the objections of

618
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 11: constituents who see a lot of common contraceptives as abortifacients

619
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 11: and therefore on the merits don't support right to contraception bills.

620
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 11: So I think this is both a messaging bill and

621
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 11: a messaging bill that's exposing that Republicans are more uncomfortable

622
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 11: with this issue than they'd like to admit. And that

623
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 11: might help make sense of what you saw former President

624
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 11: Trump do, right and making a statement that he would

625
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 11: think about how to regulate contraception and then walking it

626
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 11: back because he's probably not up on exactly how complicated

627
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 11: the feelings of the Republican base could be on some

628
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 11: of parts of this issue.

629
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: Well, we've also seen some complications around Republican messaging on

630
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: IVF in particular after, of course, the ruling in Alabama

631
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: earlier this year. Even though IVF protections have been put

632
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: back into place in that state, there was efforts to

633
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: protect that federally that haven't necessarily been able to find

634
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: further progress on Capitol Hill, Mary, How should we think

635
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: about that issue in particular, and where the conversation around

636
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: in vitro fertilization goes from here in a post Dobbs world.

637
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think that again, the idea that there's no

638
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 11: threat to in vitro fertilization, which is something you're also

639
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 11: hearing Republicans seeing, is a little bit misguided. We've seen,

640
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 11: for example, prominent figures in the Southern Baptist Convention, which

641
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 11: is the largest conservative Christian denomination in the United States,

642
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 11: announcing that they're going to be pushing for a resolution

643
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 11: condemning in vitro fertilization and urging conservative Protestant churches to

644
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 11: begin lobbying for state laws prohibiting or regulating in vitro fertilization.

645
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 11: We've seen prominent campaigns announced by anti A worship groups

646
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 11: to either litigate to establish that fetuses and embryos are

647
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 11: persons and that in vitro fertilization is potentially unconstitutional, or

648
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 11: urging legislatures to introduce new restrictions on it. And so

649
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 11: I think as a result, the in vitro fertilization restriction

650
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 11: issue is a long way from over. Even in Alabama,

651
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 11: there's new litigation seeking to establish that Alabama's new law

652
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 11: protecting IVF providers violates the state constitution by denying embryos

653
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 11: constitutional rights. So the conversation in the States is a

654
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 11: really complicated one, even if it's not one that's likely

655
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 11: to change anything imminently. Because voters do support in vitro fertilization,

656
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 11: I think again, Republicans are in a tricky place on

657
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 11: this because there's so much popular support for IVF, but

658
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 11: a lot of conservatives in base voters view IVF as

659
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 11: contradicting the principle that a fetus or embryo is a

660
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 11: constitutional person, which is what many of them believe in

661
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 11: the context of abortion as well. So you're likely to

662
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 11: see I think Republicans continuing to thread this needle of

663
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 11: saying they support IVF while being unwilling to actually introduce

664
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,239
Speaker 11: legal protections for IVF that would be unpopular with some

665
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 11: of their constituents.

666
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: Well, lastly, Mary, as senators are asked to put their

667
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: name on the record here on where they stand, Patty Murray,

668
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: who chairs the Senate Health Committee, says, Americans vote, We'll

669
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: be watching closely as this vote takes place.

670
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 4: Is she correct?

671
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 11: Well, I don't know. I mean, I think it's unclear

672
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 11: if Americans take seriously threats to contraception. I think that

673
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 11: the threats are not imminent, but they're real, and so

674
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 11: I think it may be a question of whether Americans

675
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 11: are watching now or whether they will look back on

676
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 11: this vote later when there may be are some of

677
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,959
Speaker 11: the moves to address contraception come to fruition, this vote

678
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 11: may look very different in historical context to voters than

679
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 11: it does today.

680
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 4: Mary, it's great to have you back.

681
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: Mary Zigler with us as we anticipate the vote later today. Mary,

682
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 3: appreciate the insights as always. Martin Luther King, Junior Professor

683
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 3: of Law at the University of California at Davis.

684
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast can

685
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

686
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: roun Oo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also

687
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: listen live on ammaz on Alexa from our flagship New

688
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 1: York station, Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

689
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 3: We sat here together on Friday and brought you the

690
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 3: President Live from the White House, in which he rolled

691
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 3: out a ceasefire proposal that has felt on again off

692
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 3: again depending on the moment or the day, and the

693
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 3: interviews that benjaminettya Who is doing, and the speeches that

694
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 3: Joe Biden is giving. There's clearly a disconnect, and it's

695
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: hard to tell if we are closer to a breakthrough

696
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 3: or further away from one than we were at the

697
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: start of this week. Marra Rudman joins US professor at

698
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 3: the Miller Center at the University of Virginia and director

699
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 3: of the Ripples of Hope projects focused on democratic solutions Mara,

700
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 3: It's great to have you back.

701
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 4: Welcome to Bloomberg.

702
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 3: Do you have a sense of how close we are

703
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 3: to something or are you starting to think there never

704
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 3: was a deal?

705
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 8: No, I think we are closer than we have been previously.

706
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 8: I believe it is a key inflection point. And I

707
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 8: see what President Biden is doing as very skillfully pushing

708
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 8: Israel and in the form of Prime Minister net To

709
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 8: Yago particularly and Yaya Sinwar, by moving forward and putting

710
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 8: out publicly what is this Israeli proposal that he spoke

711
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 8: about Friday, and then continuing quite persistently on the same

712
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 8: point on the contours of that proposal, on what it involves.

713
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 8: And I think it's meaningful that Bill Burns, our CIA director,

714
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 8: is meeting with Katars and Egyptians, I believe today in Doha.

715
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 3: Okay, that's actually an important element of this story. When

716
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: Bill Burns shows up, the gears tend to start turning.

717
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 3: But Hamas says just in the last twenty four hours

718
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 3: that Israel must commit to a permanent ceasefire and full

719
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 3: withdrawal from Gaza, which Israel says it is not prepared

720
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 3: to do. Until Hamas does not exist longer. How do

721
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: you get past such an obvious standoff here.

722
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 8: That's the art of negotiation, and also that is I

723
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 8: believe some of the art of what is embedded in

724
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 8: this proposal. Phase two of the proposal. President Biden, as

725
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 8: I heard him Friday, was very careful in the words

726
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 8: he chose. He described it in his own words as

727
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 8: a ceasefire, and then very quickly quoted from the proposal

728
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 8: which talked about a cessation of hostilities. And as you

729
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 8: move from phase one to phase two of the proposal,

730
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 8: there are negotiations to go on on essentially what the

731
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 8: terms are that would govern phase two and phase three.

732
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 8: And as with any very difficult and seemingly intractable issue,

733
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 8: you need to find a way to get through what

734
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 8: two parties both date as their bottom lines that can

735
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 8: be seen as essentially concessions to both parties from whom

736
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 8: you have to get agreement. And I think that's what

737
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 8: the proposal seems to do as I hear it.

738
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: Interesting this is something that Joe Biden rolled out on

739
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 3: Friday as a piece of text that had been authorized

740
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: by Benjamin Netanyaho's office, and Netanyah who said that as well,

741
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 3: how much further, did Joe Biden push this three phased

742
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 3: plan in his speech beyond his phone calls with Netanyahu.

743
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 3: It seemed to catch net Yahoo off guard.

744
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 8: I think it's unlikely that it caught Prime Minister Netanyahu

745
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 8: off guard in terms of the substance of the proposal

746
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 8: President Biden wouldn't.

747
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 3: Do you think Joe Biden was going to say as

748
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: much as he did publicly.

749
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 8: Probably not exactly. That's where the way in which I

750
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 8: think President Biden quite deliberately went to speak to the

751
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 8: people of Israel, frankly two Palestinians as well, since both

752
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 8: Israelis and Palestinians where they are similar is that they

753
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 8: are not hearing for a variety of different reasons the

754
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 8: real bottom lines from the people who are executing at

755
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 8: this point, in one case, in defending Israel and in

756
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 8: terms of Hamas and Yaya Sinwar in perpetrating this ongoing attack.

757
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 8: And so what Present Biden did on Friday was both

758
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 8: to quote quite specifically from the proposal, which was an

759
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 8: Israeli proposal, and at the same time put it in

760
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 8: a broader context that could speak to the people who

761
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 8: are so directly affected by what is going on.

762
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 3: You mentioned Bill Burns showing back up at the table.

763
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 3: What else do you have your eyes on for signs

764
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 3: of hope or otherwise to get a sense of what

765
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 3: direction this is moving in.

766
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 8: Well. I view Bill Burns, as you noted, is very important,

767
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,959
Speaker 8: mostly because I don't think he shows up unless there's

768
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 8: something substantive to discuss and go through. I believe that

769
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 8: the Egyptians in the countries are probably having some challendes

770
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 8: from what I have read, Yaya sin has not yet

771
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 8: signed off. There may be some promising signs from others

772
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 8: than in Hamas, but we know that sinoir As, the

773
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 8: perpetrator of the current conflict, is the key decision maker

774
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 8: at this point on the Hamas side, and we've heard

775
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 8: silence from him as well as the public statements that

776
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 8: you described from Hamas and at the same time from Netanyahu.

777
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 8: You know, verious jockeying inside Israel, which Jake Sullivan I

778
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 8: believe described today or yesterday as as signs of the

779
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 8: raucous democracy that is in fact, and it's a kind

780
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 8: way to put it, but what goes on in Israel,

781
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 8: so that's important. As our President Biden's meetings in Europe,

782
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 8: there are a number of different sidebars that accompany his

783
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 8: visit for this adieth anniversary of a key World War

784
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 8: Two battle, and he also has ongoing meetings. He's got

785
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 8: a NATO anniversary coming up, and he's got a G

786
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 8: seventh summit, so a lot of key discussions with allies

787
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 8: at the same time.

788
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 4: Really great point.

789
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 3: There are going to be some important sideline conversations happening

790
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 3: as we move our way into the G seven as well.

791
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 4: Mara, how flexible.

792
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 3: Should we all be here when we consider the proposal

793
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 3: versus a final product. We're used to talking about the

794
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 3: legislative process on this program every day when it comes

795
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 3: to diplomacy. How much of this is a starting point

796
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 3: versus a final product?

797
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 8: I think it's somewhere in between the two. Joe, as

798
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 8: with getting to legislative legislation that can in my mind,

799
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 8: and again this is harkening back to a prior life

800
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 8: for me on the hill. You want to you need

801
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 8: to get to sixty votes in the Senate generally if

802
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,439
Speaker 8: you can possibly do it, as opposed to fifty one.

803
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 8: You want to get something that can pass under suspension

804
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 8: in the House. That often involves finding language that can

805
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 8: work for a number of different people from a number

806
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 8: of different angle than it's going to have a certain

807
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 8: amount of ambiguity in it, and you need to, in

808
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 8: this case, with diplomacy, get this process started, get into

809
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 8: phase one, get that critical humanitarian aid in, get the

810
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 8: hostages out, the immediate group of hostages out, and then

811
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 8: dive deeper to iron out the details on phase two.

812
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 8: So what I would hope and my caution would be

813
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 8: not to let from any perspective, the perfect be the

814
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 8: enemy of the good, because we need the good to

815
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 8: start moving forward.

816
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 3: You know, we talk about the military operation in Rafa,

817
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 3: we talk about the diplomacy around a potential ceasefire. Not

818
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 3: often enough do we talk about the actual hostages who

819
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 3: would be released under a deal like this. Does that

820
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 3: remain the primary motivator for Israel?

821
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 8: I believe it's the primary motivator for President Biden. I

822
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 8: think in the racket it as is humanitarian aid. I

823
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 8: think in Israel, when Jake Sullivan refers to the raucous

824
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 8: democracy includes frankly, the far right extremist and president in

825
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 8: Prime Minister Nyahu's coalition, who have made very clear, frankly

826
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 8: that their priority is not the hostages. Whereas I think

827
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 8: for many Israelis that is the top priority, and for

828
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 8: Prime Mister Yaho, he's gone a little bit back and

829
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 8: forth on that.

830
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 3: Glad you come talk to us, Mars, stay close as

831
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 3: we learn more. We could be talking about a breakthrough

832
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 3: or a fallout.

833
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 4: Next time. We're joined by Maura Rudman. Great conversation.

834
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make

835
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

836
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

837
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 3: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern

838
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 3: at Bloomberg dot com.