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Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the battle Ground Podcast. This

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Speaker 3: is a podcast all about professional wrestling. Join Battle and

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Speaker 3: Eli as a breakdown what's going on in the world

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Speaker 3: of professional wrestling with special guests, including some of your

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Speaker 3: favorite wrestling superstars. You never know who's gonna stop by

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Speaker 3: now making their way to the microphone. Give it up

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Speaker 3: for the greatest podcast team in the world, Battle and Eli.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Battleground Podcast.

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Speaker 2: This is episode one hundred and something.

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Speaker 1: I've kind of lost track, especially here the quarantine that

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Speaker 1: everybody's in. I really don't even know what day it is,

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Speaker 1: but I do know that on today's show, we do

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Speaker 1: have a special guest for you. It's Battle along with

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Speaker 1: my tag team partner Eli. Which by the way, make

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Speaker 1: sure you're following us on social media.

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Speaker 2: We're on Instagram, Battleground.

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Speaker 1: Podcast, Twitter, Battleground IHR, We're on Facebook, and.

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Speaker 2: We are on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: We haven't posted anything on TikTok, But it's Battleground Podcast

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Speaker 1: on TikTok if you want to find us there.

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Speaker 2: But let's do this. Today's show is going to be great.

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Speaker 1: We are sitting here with a man that needs no introduction,

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Speaker 1: Raven Is on the show, and we always like to

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Speaker 1: kind of start the show off with like a softball question,

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Speaker 1: So let's just kind of just drop this out Raven

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Speaker 1: Is our guests on the show tonight. Were you always

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Speaker 1: a fan of pro wrestling growing up, and if so,

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Speaker 1: who are some of your favorite wrestlers and promotions.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I was always a fan of wrestling. Yeah, and

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Speaker 4: in fact, that's what I wanted to be when.

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Speaker 5: I was like nine years old or eight years old.

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Speaker 4: I want to be a pro wrestler. But you know,

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Speaker 4: then you put away your dreams and you know, you

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Speaker 4: start to grow up a little bit, you know, eleven, twelve, thirteen,

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Speaker 4: you start you know, thinking about girls, you know, fourteen,

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Speaker 4: and then you start.

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Speaker 5: To think about it.

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Speaker 4: Then you graduate high school and you start to thinking

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Speaker 4: about college, but you never think about going back to

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Speaker 4: being a wrestler, because yeah, it's just something everybody else does.

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Speaker 4: But I didn't want to be fifty years old going, Man,

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Speaker 4: I could have done this, I should have done this,

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Speaker 4: you know, I figured it, Well, why not take a chance.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if I fail, I still don't consider myself

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Speaker 4: a failure because if I would have failed, I wouldn't consider

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Speaker 4: myself a failure because as long as you try, that's

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Speaker 4: all that matters. So I figured I'll try and if

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Speaker 4: it works, great, and if it doesn't, I got my

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Speaker 4: college degree to fall back on. So those are what's

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Speaker 4: the other question.

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Speaker 2: What were some of your favorite promotions?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the yeah.

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Speaker 4: I started blabbing on an answer and I start pontificating

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Speaker 4: and listening to myself talk, and I get enamored by

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Speaker 4: my own voice too much.

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Speaker 1: Hey, we'll sit here and listen to you talk all

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Speaker 1: day long. That's no problem with us.

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Speaker 5: Well, I used to.

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Speaker 4: My favorite promotion like back in before, before the modern era,

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Speaker 4: before like RAW and ECW and all that. Bill Watts's

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Speaker 4: UWF was amazing, you know, because they they filmed it

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Speaker 4: instead of like back then, they used to film all

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Speaker 4: most of every wrestling show in a studio, like in

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Speaker 4: front of twelve or fifteen twenty people, which is ridiculous,

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Speaker 4: you know. I mean, now, I guess they're filming wrestling

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Speaker 4: in front of less than ten people, you know, because

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Speaker 4: he fit them in because of the coronavirus. And I

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Speaker 4: on the sidebar. Everybody's getting furloughed. I try to get

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Speaker 4: j loads and furload. But that's just amazing. I just

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Speaker 4: thought of that.

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Speaker 5: The Uh what was I saying?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so so yeah, it's a studio wrestling, so

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Speaker 4: and and it wasn't as exciting because it wasn't at an arena.

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Speaker 4: But Bill Wats was at an arena in Tulsa, and

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Speaker 4: they had such an amazing crew, and they had main

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Speaker 4: event matches like throughout the show, you know, because back

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Speaker 4: in the day when I started watching wrestling, it was

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Speaker 4: all squash matches. It was all names against no names.

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Speaker 4: So that when you had to pay to see the

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Speaker 4: names fight each other at the arena. And that's how people,

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Speaker 4: you know, that's how they got you to pay money

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Speaker 4: to see them to go to the to the arena,

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Speaker 4: because back in the day, most territories ran the same

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Speaker 4: arena every week, you know, like Memphis, they ran a

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Speaker 4: Memphis Coliseum, ten thousand people every Monday night, you know, so.

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Speaker 5: That's a lot of at to draw people like that.

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Speaker 4: You gotta have you gotta have a strong main event,

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Speaker 4: you gotta have a lot of And it's much easier

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Speaker 4: to draw when when you never know, like, hey, I've

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Speaker 4: never this guy this guy, and uh, this guy always

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Speaker 4: wins every match, and this guy always wins every match.

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Speaker 4: Who's gonna went out of the two of them? You know?

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Speaker 4: And when the whole cards all squash matches on TV,

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Speaker 4: it's amazing. But Bill Watts had like main event matches

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Speaker 4: and they did all kinds of stuff. It was shot

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Speaker 4: really clean. The lighting was great, you know, it wasn't

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Speaker 4: the buildings. Lights were all unls like the only the

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Speaker 4: light was over the ring, so the ring was so

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Speaker 4: it wasn't like now where where the stands are all

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Speaker 4: lit up so you can see the audience. It was dark.

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Speaker 4: So it had that that old school wrestling atmosphere. It

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Speaker 4: was just an amazing program.

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Speaker 6: That was. Dusty was really big in that that territory, right,

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Speaker 6: that was one.

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Speaker 4: No, no, Dusty, No, Dusty didn't work there he he uh.

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Speaker 4: That that was Dusty worked for Florida Championship Wrestling and

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Speaker 4: Championship Wrestling.

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Speaker 6: It was Florida Championship. That's one I was thinking of

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Speaker 6: right right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, which I also was lucky enough to grow up

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Speaker 4: on like well, I started out. I was born in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 4: so I lived there until I was nine or ten,

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Speaker 4: and so I watched w w F. Then we moved

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Speaker 4: to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I started watching the a w

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Speaker 4: A and uh because that was the you know, the

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Speaker 4: promotion there and uh, and Dusty was like the top.

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Speaker 5: Bad guy there.

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Speaker 4: So I hated him because then we moved to Florida

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Speaker 4: when I was twelve, and Dusty was like a god

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Speaker 4: in Florida. I was like, Oh, he's the best, He's

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Speaker 4: the greatest, right, And I'm like, well, he sucks, he sucks.

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Speaker 4: But like three weeks later, I was like, yeah, Dusty's

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Speaker 4: the best.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: The AWA he was a tag team, right, he was

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Speaker 6: like the Texas Cowboys or something or.

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Speaker 5: Yeah something from Texas Outlaws.

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Speaker 6: Outlaws Yeah, something like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: It was weird to think about him as a heel.

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Speaker 4: People do not realize how freaking charismatic he is, like

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Speaker 4: like I mean as a wrestler, like you know, even

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Speaker 4: like and it was so athletic for a guy with

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Speaker 4: his build, I mean just absolutely one of a kind,

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Speaker 4: just you know, you couldn't like, I mean, people did

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Speaker 4: a lot. You know, people today remember him from like

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Speaker 4: when you had the polka dots and when Vince was

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Speaker 4: trying to bury him, and and you know, you gotta

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Speaker 4: be you gotta be forty five or so to really

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Speaker 4: remember the old school Dusty, you know, at least forty

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Speaker 4: five to really remember when he was back in his prime. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Well, and I think a lot of people focus on

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Speaker 6: his mic skills and they kind of overlook a lot

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Speaker 6: of the other stuff that he is well known for.

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Speaker 4: He's so multi dimensional. I mean, he was he was

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Speaker 4: just and as a Babyface. It's hard to be that

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Speaker 4: to be because the cut promos that that clever and

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Speaker 4: that interesting, because it's so much easier as a villain,

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Speaker 4: because villains, you know, they they spout all kinds of nonsense.

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Speaker 4: You know, they always have a justification or a rationalization.

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Speaker 4: There's so much more depth to being a villain. But

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Speaker 4: he brought He brought like a new kind of depth

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Speaker 4: to babyfacing.

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Speaker 5: I think I don't think that he gets enough credit for.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 4: And this was before there were writers. I mean, there

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Speaker 4: was no writers back then. You came up with your

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Speaker 4: own character, your own gimmick whatever. And if you couldn't

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Speaker 4: talk or write your own promo, then you didn't you

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Speaker 4: didn't get the cut promos, right, you had to be

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Speaker 4: able to do it all yourself. And I think that's

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Speaker 4: like in many ways, it's the writing. The fact they

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Speaker 4: have writers now is helpful for the guys on the

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Speaker 4: bottom end of the card because you know, obviously, you know,

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Speaker 4: if they could have they were a lot of bottom

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Speaker 4: guys need a lower lower guys in the car need

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Speaker 4: someone to write material for him.

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Speaker 5: But on the top, when when they're writing material for top.

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Speaker 4: Guys who they may not write, they feel like they're

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Speaker 4: writing the guy's character, but they don't know, like like,

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Speaker 4: nobody wrote my character better than me, you know, nobody

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Speaker 4: writes Jericho better than him, you know. And so Jericho

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Speaker 4: being allowed to beat Jericho is going to be amazing.

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Speaker 4: It is amazing, and uh, but Jericho having to spout

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Speaker 4: writer's words is really good, but it's not amazing.

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Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, I think there's some talent that just they

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Speaker 6: can do anything. They can create their own stuff, they

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Speaker 6: can be handed to script make it sound incredible. But

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Speaker 6: you go back in the Golden age and you know,

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Speaker 6: like we'll go back to Dusty. I mean, somebody handed

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Speaker 6: him a mic, say you got four minutes, and then

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Speaker 6: he just went just went to town, you know what

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Speaker 6: I mean, Like that was the direction you have four minutes,

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Speaker 6: you know what I mean. And so it is kind

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Speaker 6: of a different you know, I ideology now with you know,

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Speaker 6: here's your script, you know that kind of a thing.

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Speaker 6: So I think for like a lot of old school

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Speaker 6: fans with like Flair, Dusty Rhodes and all that, who

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Speaker 6: just did it all on the fly, it's it's just

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Speaker 6: a different beast, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and and you know, nobody, you know,

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Speaker 4: nobody should be able to do you because if you're

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Speaker 4: doing your character right, it should be you magnified by

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Speaker 4: ten or by twenty or by fifty, but it should

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Speaker 4: still be something that's putting, that's directly from within you.

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Speaker 4: Because we're not actors, even though we do act, you know,

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Speaker 4: we you know, we actually we act, We write, we produce,

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Speaker 4: we edit, we do stunts, we do everything, and so

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Speaker 4: we're never gonna be amazing at all those at those

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Speaker 4: endeavors by ourselves. But if you're really good at some

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Speaker 4: of them, you can become a huge star. And by

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Speaker 4: by knowing your own character well enough, you can come

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Speaker 4: up with some creative stuff that nobody else is gonna

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Speaker 4: come off for. It come up for you because nobody

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Speaker 4: knows how you think. And that's why it's so much better.

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Speaker 4: Like that's why Chris Jarko will tell you now that

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Speaker 4: he's free to write his own stuff, he's so much

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Speaker 4: more happy, and he feels like he's so much stronger

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Speaker 4: in a mic, and he was already super strong in

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Speaker 4: a mic.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree. His His work with AW so far

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Speaker 6: has just been excellent.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean just amazing.

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Speaker 6: Let's see where are we at. Okay, so let's get back.

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Speaker 6: So we we kind of talked about. You know, you

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Speaker 6: did watch wrestling growing up, You traveled around, watched different promotions.

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Speaker 6: So after college you went to the legendary Monster Factory.

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Speaker 6: You can count yourself as a famous alum obviously, but

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Speaker 6: you know some others that were there, obviously Legendary Baman, Bigelow,

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Speaker 6: Ball's Mahoney, Big Showdlo Brown, King Kong Bundy Godfather, and

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Speaker 6: most recently Matt Riddle, who we not talked to not

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Speaker 6: too long ago. So, I mean, you know, arguably one

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Speaker 6: of the top schools in the United States for wrestling.

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Speaker 4: Well, well, it actually wasn't when I when I went,

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Speaker 4: but that's there wasn't. In fact, there weren't very many

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Speaker 4: wrestling schools when I started, Like basically and back in

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Speaker 4: the day, if you knew, you had to know somebody

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Speaker 4: pretty much to get into wrestling or go to There

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Speaker 4: was a Malenko had a school in Florida, but I

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Speaker 4: couldn't find anybody who knew had a phone number on it,

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Speaker 4: so I couldn't go there. There was another school in Massachusetts,

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Speaker 4: I think Killer Kowalski School and uh, and then there

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Speaker 4: was Larry Sharp's Monster Factory, and I think that was

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Speaker 4: it when I went, you know, when I was when

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Speaker 4: I wanted to get into it. And because Les Sharp,

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Speaker 4: they did an article on the Sports Illustrated about Bam

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Speaker 4: Bam Bigelow.

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Speaker 5: I was like, all right, I guess I'll go there.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, but then you know I got there,

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Speaker 4: they didn't hadn't trained anybody. I guess he had trained Bundy,

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Speaker 4: but that was but he hadn't really trained anybody else.

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Speaker 5: But I'm like, that's all right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I don't know, I don't know

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Speaker 4: where everybody else went, but I guess I'll go here.

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Speaker 4: And it's funny. It's like it's the wrestling schools are

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Speaker 4: the only thing that have resisted inflation. It was three

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars to go to school when I started in

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Speaker 4: nineteen eighty seven, and basically it's still three grand or

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Speaker 4: less nowadays. So it's the only thing that's defied inflation.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so what what you know overall? What was the

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Speaker 6: training experience like and what was the atmosphere. You know,

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Speaker 6: it's probably obviously not what it is today, but I

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Speaker 6: mean like kind of kind of give us a little

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Speaker 6: bit of like your experience there, and you know.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was. It was really interesting.

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Speaker 4: I got there and Larry Sharp was there for a

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Speaker 4: week or so and then he went to Japan with

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Speaker 4: Bigelow and so so he had a guy, Charlie Fulton,

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Speaker 4: who was an enhancement guy for WWE. But back then

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Speaker 4: the enhancement guys went on the road and worked the

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Speaker 4: opening match. So this was a guy who was a

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Speaker 4: really good hand, but he was he was a little

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Speaker 4: charismatic deficient, but he was a great worker though, Like

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Speaker 4: you know, like some enhancement guys were just terrible, but

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Speaker 4: they were there every week, you know, but some guys

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Speaker 4: were really good, like and this was one of them,

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Speaker 4: Charlie Fulton, and he could really make it look good.

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Speaker 5: And so he trained me.

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Speaker 4: And after a month, Larry comes to me and he goes,

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Speaker 4: all right, I've taught everything you can learn. Uh, time

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Speaker 4: to go on and get a get booked somewhere and

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Speaker 4: work in front of people. I'm like what He's like, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: he goes to fly.

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Speaker 5: I know. So I was like what.

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Speaker 4: I was like, okay, great, And uh So I started

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Speaker 4: sending my like a video tape, you know, because we

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Speaker 4: had a couple of matches at the Monster Factory. And

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Speaker 4: I started sending a video tape out like and everything

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Speaker 4: and and a letter with it, you know, Scotty the

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Speaker 4: body and blah blah blah. And I've had you know,

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Speaker 4: this many matches and I'm looking to get booked and

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Speaker 4: and every three weeks I'd send another same thing with

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Speaker 4: tape and in a letter, and I send it to

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Speaker 4: all the promotions there was. Uh.

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Speaker 5: There was Puerto Rico at the time.

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Speaker 4: Kansas City, Portland, Oregon, UH, Florida Championship Wrestling Continental, who

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Speaker 4: else uh uh al Tomko and Vancouver Uh Calgary, so

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Speaker 4: it's about it was like and then and then there's

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Speaker 4: Mexico and Japan. But you know, I didn't I wasn't

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Speaker 4: interested in them because I didn't speak the language, so

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't. I didn't want to be green as hell

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Speaker 4: and not speak the language. And also it wasn't my

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Speaker 4: style as much because it wasn't episodic TV. You know,

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Speaker 4: it wasn't. It was more action based than it was

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Speaker 4: dramatic based. And so, uh so I sent for to

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Speaker 4: my my infro out you know weeks, you know, every

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Speaker 4: three weeks, and it took me nine months to get booked.

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Speaker 4: And finally Lawler called me up and said, yeah, uh,

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Speaker 4: you start on Saturday. I'm like, okay, I'll be there.

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Speaker 4: And so I told my buddy I go. And this

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Speaker 4: is like a Thursday. I told my buddy, I go.

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Speaker 4: All right, I pack up my apartment, I'm driving. I

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Speaker 4: gotta leave now, I gotta drive to Memphis. Put uh

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Speaker 4: grabbed a bunch of clothes and uh my ring jacket,

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Speaker 4: and uh jumped in the car and drove off to Memphis.

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Speaker 6: I'm I'm from West Tennessee, so Memphis wrestling is what

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00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,080
Speaker 6: I grew up on.

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Speaker 4: So it's amazing. It was.

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Speaker 6: It was, yeah, Lawler.

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Speaker 4: Lawler is like, Lawler is so big there. He's like

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Speaker 4: as big in Memphis, he's in Tennessee. He's as big

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Speaker 4: as Muhammad Ali was anywhere.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean he's he's you know, he ran

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Speaker 6: for mayor. He's got the restaurant on Bill Street. When

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Speaker 6: I was growing up, Saturday mornings was the tea of

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Speaker 6: the Wrestling show, and then Sunday mornings he had his

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Speaker 6: own television show. He had the Jerry Lawler Show, and

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Speaker 6: it came on, Yeah, it came on an hour before football,

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Speaker 6: and he was for some reason, he's a Browns fan.

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Speaker 6: I can never figure that out. But he would talk

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Speaker 6: about sports and football and interview people and then you

348
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Speaker 6: watch NFL and stuff. So weekends at my house was

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Speaker 6: just full of Lawlor Like that's all we did was

350
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Speaker 6: just watch all Secretly.

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Speaker 2: Eli has a Jerry Lawler tattoo on his cap.

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Speaker 6: Well it's on my shoulder but close enough.

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Speaker 4: Hey, so wait a minute, so what I forget what

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Speaker 4: time did the Memphis show.

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Speaker 6: Start Saturday mornings?

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Speaker 5: It was like eight am or nine am.

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Speaker 6: I want to say it was later to me in

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Speaker 6: my mind, I remember it coming on after cartoons, So

359
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,080
Speaker 6: I think cartoons were like seven to like ten, and

360
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 6: then wrestling started, but it might have been earlier than that.

361
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Speaker 6: But yeah, definitely Saturday morning for sure.

362
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Speaker 4: Yeah, because I got there and I was and then

363
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Speaker 4: because of the time change I got there.

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Speaker 5: I wanted to get there an hour early, but I

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Speaker 5: got there.

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Speaker 4: I missed calculated on the time change whenever when I

367
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Speaker 4: got there, so it was like two hours early. I

368
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Speaker 4: just sit around with my thumber, my ass and I

369
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Speaker 4: was like, oh, and you know, and I already felt

370
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Speaker 4: awkward as hell. I only had like either seven or

371
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Speaker 4: nine matches before I got there, so I just was terrified.

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Speaker 4: And uh, I don't remember of either whether I had

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Speaker 4: seven matches or nine, and I've tried to figure it out,

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Speaker 4: and I always come up with seven or nine, but

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Speaker 4: I never come up with eight.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why you don't like that in between

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Speaker 1: that's right there, it's like, yeah, it's weird.

378
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,920
Speaker 6: So when you got to Memphis, did you go straight

379
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Speaker 6: to Channel five like the studio or.

380
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Speaker 4: Yep, thirteen seven seventeen hours in Philadelphia right to Channel five.

381
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Speaker 6: And so so Lawlor booked you and put you right

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Speaker 6: on TV. Dang.

383
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Speaker 4: Yeah, well the other that that's what they Yeah, I mean,

384
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Speaker 4: that's why they brought me in. They didn't. If they're

385
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,159
Speaker 4: bringing you in, they're gonna put you on TV, so

386
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Speaker 4: they starts you at TV. So I just assumed I

387
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 4: was gonna be putting people over and uh, he goes,

388
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Speaker 4: and so they called me in an office. It was

389
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Speaker 4: him and uh and uh Jerry, Jerry Jarrett and Lawler

390
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Speaker 4: was booking.

391
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Speaker 5: You know, they take turns booking six months at a time.

392
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Speaker 4: And Mike Graham and Steve Kern were there because in

393
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Speaker 4: Gordon solely because they were restarting Florida Championship Wrestling, and

394
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Speaker 4: uh so they were getting some.

395
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Speaker 5: Footage and they go and Lawler goes.

396
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Speaker 4: What's your finish? And I was like, I didn't even

397
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Speaker 4: have a finish because I wasn't planning on going over.

398
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 4: I just forgot i'd be a job guy. So, uh,

399
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,399
Speaker 4: you know, because that's how everybody starts. I thought, what

400
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,440
Speaker 4: did I know? I didn't even know how to speak Carneye.

401
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 4: You know, Larry Sharp didn't tell me a whole didn't

402
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 4: a whole lot of anything, but uh, but I knew

403
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 4: how to take a bump and I knew how to

404
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 4: put holds on and didn't even tell me. You know

405
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,240
Speaker 4: what the iggy is like if somebody squeezes your wrist,

406
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,400
Speaker 4: that means reverse it, like if you're in an arm bar,

407
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 4: you know, and.

408
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 2: They just kind of put you three out on the

409
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 2: deep end and say go for it.

410
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 5: Basically that's what Larry did.

411
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,639
Speaker 4: I was like, so, uh, the good thing.

412
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Speaker 2: There was no social media back then, right.

413
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, there was nothing. There was.

414
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 4: I mean, there weren't even cell phones, for god for

415
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Speaker 4: goodness sakes.

416
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 5: And uh so I they go, what's your finish on?

417
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 4: I go, uh, a clothes line, which, which is terrible

418
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,440
Speaker 4: as that sounds, It's not as terrible as as as

419
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 4: it sounds, because you know, only a few guys used

420
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 4: it back then.

421
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 5: It wasn't like every third move in a match.

422
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 4: But it still was pretty stupid, right, But so they go,

423
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 4: we already got somebody that does that. I go off

424
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 4: the second because I didn't want to say off the top,

425
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 4: because I didn't you.

426
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 5: Know, I wasn't the most balanced guy in the world, So.

427
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,199
Speaker 4: I said, so I was trying to make it anything

428
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 4: I could think of, just to make it sound like better.

429
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,439
Speaker 4: And they go Okay, that's good, and so they go,

430
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 4: you got four minutes with Keith Eric. He's a great

431
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 4: he's a good hand, so just have fun whatever, all right, thanks.

432
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 4: So I go out there and I grab an armbar

433
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 4: or something. A minute and a half in, I've forgotten

434
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 4: everything I've learned about russelling. I cannot remember a thing,

435
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,360
Speaker 4: and I go and so I immediately go home, and

436
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 4: they go, you went home too early. You're supposed to

437
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 4: go four minutes. You only went a minute and a half.

438
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I lost track of time, Sorry

439
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 4: about that. And so that night, so they're thinking I

440
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 4: probably suck at that point, but they're not sure. You know,

441
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,919
Speaker 4: they probably think I'm okay, but not real good. And

442
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 4: then because even though I'm not a great athlete, I

443
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 4: look athletic, which helps, you know, so it hides my

444
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 4: lack of athleticism. And so that night you go from Memphis,

445
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,199
Speaker 4: you drive to all two hundred and twenty miles back

446
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 4: to Nashville for the house show that night, and and

447
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 4: the locker rooms aren't connected, so you can't call the

448
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 4: match together. You basically have to call it out in

449
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 4: a ring. And you know, I've only had seven to

450
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 4: nine seven or nine matches. So I'm like, I'm terrified,

451
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 4: and I'm wrestling Jimmy Jack Funk and We're supposed to

452
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 4: go ten minutes to a draw, ten minute draw, and

453
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 4: uh so I'm like, oh my god, I'm gonna this

454
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 4: is horrifying. I'm terrified. And so we get out there

455
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 4: and then we start working and I'm like, oh, Okay,

456
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 4: he's not gonna beat me up. Okay, I'm good with that.

457
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,719
Speaker 4: He's ready, he wants to work with me, and so

458
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 4: he gets it, cranks my arm and he starts squeezing

459
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 4: my wrist, squeezes my wrist once. I'm like, why is

460
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 4: he squeezing my wrist? And then he squeezes it again.

461
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 4: I'm like, why is he squeezing my wrist again? Uh,

462
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 4: he squeezed it a third time and I reversed it

463
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 4: and he kind of nods at me like yeah, and

464
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I get it.

465
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 5: That means reverse.

466
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 4: So yes, I was really green, but he carried me

467
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 4: made me look like I could work, so they.

468
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 5: Thought, you know, hey, this kid's pretty good.

469
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 4: So uh so, little did they know how how not

470
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 4: good I was. And uh and so the next night

471
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,719
Speaker 4: they had me team up with the with Ricky Nelson,

472
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 4: another young Green kid against these two uh Greens Green

473
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 4: tag team to Zebra Warriors who were like five seven

474
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 4: with masks and uh like a like a trojan helmet

475
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 4: type hair sticking out the you know, down the back

476
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 4: in the middle of the mask and uh, and we

477
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 4: stunk the joint out.

478
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 5: I mean, it was it was embarrassing being in that match.

479
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 4: How bad it was, like it was just so bad

480
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 4: and uh and so I was like, so right away

481
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 4: they go, uh, they basically said, you sucked. You're doing

482
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 4: jobs and so and then on I did jobs and

483
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 4: then uh. But then after about I don't know, a

484
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 4: month of working six nights a week, all of a sudden,

485
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 4: I got really good and really quick, Like I guess

486
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 4: what Larry saw on me at the school, like I

487
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 4: was actually there, you know, which is why he sent

488
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 4: me off after a month, you know what I mean.

489
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 4: I mean, I still went to the school, you know,

490
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 4: for the night. It took me nine months to get

491
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 4: booked in Memphis or you know, or eight more months,

492
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 4: I guess. But I still went to the school all

493
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 4: the time, just to work on moves and stuff. But uh,

494
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 4: you know, but but I guess whatever Larry saw in

495
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 4: me that, you know, because you know, I don't know

496
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 4: if he was telling other guys to go places because

497
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 4: they weren't, So I don't know if they who told

498
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 4: him that, or he didn't tell him anything, or they

499
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 4: just didn't want to go or didn't try. But uh,

500
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 4: but I immediately I picked it up as something I

501
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 4: just had a natural inclination for. And uh, and I

502
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 4: got really good, really quick. And then I was like,

503
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 4: then I was bummed out that they weren't giving me

504
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 4: a push. And I was like, wait a minute, you

505
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 4: gave me a push when I sucked. You should you're

506
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 4: gonna give me a push, then give me one now.

507
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 4: But I learned a quick, quick and valuable lesson that

508
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 4: what the perception is is the reality, and they perceived

509
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 4: me as a job guy now, so they weren't going

510
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 4: to perceive me as a star. I'd have to leave

511
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 4: and come back to become a star. Does that make sense?

512
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

513
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, The perception is the reality.

514
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 4: And that's that that that follows across business, any line

515
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 4: of business, any line of anything. Like if you if

516
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 4: people think you're goofy, they're not gonna think you're a

517
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 4: great business guy, and you could be the greatest sharpest business.

518
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 5: Mind in the world.

519
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 4: But if you act like a goof in a meeting,

520
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 4: they're gonna think you're a goof, you know, And it's

521
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 4: the perception is the reality.

522
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: Right now is this is this kind of how you

523
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: ended up in w CW with your first stint.

524
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 4: No from there, from the Memphis I went to. They

525
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 4: finished me up after a couple of months, after like

526
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 4: three months, you know, And because they didn't they could

527
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 4: anybody could be an enhancement guy. They didn't need that

528
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 4: on the car. They need the guys that they could,

529
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 4: you know, you know, work with, And so I needed

530
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 4: to leave. And while I was in the locker room,

531
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 4: Mike Gramm and Steve Kerr had heard me talking and

532
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 4: thought I was a really good talker and thought I'd

533
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 4: be good on the show. So they brought me down

534
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 4: to Florida Championship Wrestling with them as they restarted it.

535
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 5: So I went there for.

536
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 4: Ten months, and then from there I into Vancouver, Canada

537
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 4: for Al Tomco. But that lasted the month, and I

538
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 4: drove to Portland and lasted and then that worked for

539
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 4: two years, and that was that's where I really learned

540
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 4: how to work. I spent two years in Portland working

541
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 4: on top and also as the color commentator, the first

542
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 4: tell color commentator they had, which was pretty cool. And

543
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 4: Piper was the was booking the thing, and so he

544
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 4: took kind of took me under his wing, and the

545
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 4: grappler was the it was the Yeah, grappler was the

546
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 4: day to day booker, but Piper was calling the shots,

547
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 4: done the over overseeing the whole thing. And the grappler

548
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 4: was an amazing worker who I learned so much from

549
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 4: him that I wouldn't be, you know, my talent wouldn't

550
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 4: be half of what it is if he if he

551
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 4: wasn't if he wasn't running the book in the Portland

552
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 4: territory and let me pick his brain every night. But uh,

553
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 4: I got so much respect for him. But anyway, so

554
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 4: from there, I finished up there after two years, which

555
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 4: is a good long run in the territory days. And uh,

556
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 4: the unless you're gonna be a homesteader and stayed like

557
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 4: your whole career, which a lot of guys you know,

558
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 4: would do. And from there I went to down to

559
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 4: I moved to Atlanta and then I got hired in

560
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 4: w C No. I went to Global Wrestling out of

561
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 4: Texas that Joe Petsino ran, and then from there I

562
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 4: went to w CW and then uh, and then back

563
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 4: to Memphis and I was like, Holy crap, I'm back

564
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 4: in Memphis. It's the Hotel California. You could check out,

565
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 4: but you can't ever leave.

566
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 6: Yeah. Was so your first stant with WCW that was

567
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 6: like the like Scottie Filamingo was? Was that that one? Yeah?

568
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 4: What?

569
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: Uh?

570
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 6: I mean, what do you remember most about that? Because

571
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 6: that was still considered like quote unquote the big time.

572
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 6: You know, it wasn't the WWE level at that point,

573
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 6: but they did have TV, that toys, trading cards, all

574
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 6: that kind of stuff. What what was what was that

575
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 6: experience like that?

576
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 4: It was at first when I got there, Dusty had

577
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 4: big plans for me. Dusty always liked me and had

578
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 4: big plans for me that he was going to do.

579
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 4: But then Watch came in and watch Watch gave me

580
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 4: the gave me a the boot.

581
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 6: And there's not many people that have good opinions about him.

582
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 5: Ah, you know, I don't really I don't hate the guy.

583
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 4: If he wouldn't have if he wouldn't have finished me up,

584
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 4: then I wouldn't have my career. I'm happy where I

585
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 4: ended up, so I don't you know, I don't begrudge

586
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 4: anybody along the way, you know what I mean.

587
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 5: But it was also hard.

588
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 4: It was really hard to take, especially because I helped

589
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 4: train his son, Like I taught Eric wats half of

590
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 4: what he knows. So I'm like I taught his kid

591
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: and his dad still, you know, you know, to give

592
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 4: to gave me the boots. That was really disheartening. And

593
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 4: then having to go back to Memphis, back to the

594
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 4: territories which were dying. You know, the territories had started

595
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 4: dying in uh what ninety four or eighty four, I

596
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 4: mean when when Vince went national and turn and Crockett

597
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 4: went national and it was just a matter of time

598
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 4: till the territories went out of business. And and now

599
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 4: it's like ninety two and I'm and I got to

600
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 4: go back to the to the last embers of the territories,

601
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh man, this is how I ever

602
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 4: going to get back to the you know, back to

603
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 4: the show, back to there or get to w WE,

604
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 4: you know, w w F at the time. And that's

605
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 4: when I when I was at Memphis they they were

606
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 4: working with Vince on some stuff, and and they brought

607
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 4: me in as a manager as Johnny Polo. So I

608
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 4: was like, eh, but I figured it was still I

609
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 4: was still in the business. So I was still hanging

610
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 4: on by a thread, even though I was a manager,

611
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 4: which I didn't want to be. And then they made

612
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 4: me Annvinced saw how my saw my creativity and my intelligence,

613
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 4: and he made it because he had me become a

614
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 4: color commentator with him because Lawler had taken some time off,

615
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 4: and he saw that I came prepared and I had

616
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 4: notes and you know, material, I'd you know, set up,

617
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 4: you know, to tell you know, I go, hey, have

618
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 4: you say this during the commentary?

619
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 5: I can say this joke afterwards? And he liked that.

620
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 5: So he made me a producer and associate producer.

621
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 4: Monday Night Raw and gave me an office on the

622
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 4: fourth floor, which sounds great, but I didn't want to

623
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,239
Speaker 4: be a producer. I want to be a wrestler. And

624
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 4: then they took me off TV as a manager and

625
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 4: then they just made me a I did color. I

626
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 4: did the wrap around segments for the magazine format shows.

627
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 4: For one of the magazine format shows, and then they

628
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 4: took me off of that just to be a producer,

629
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 4: and I was like, I got to get out of

630
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 4: here if I want to wrestle. And that's when the

631
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 4: ECW had just started. It started and they were starting

632
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 4: to make some waves. And long story short, got booked

633
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 4: there and it was reinvented myself and the rest is history,

634
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 4: thank god. I mean, I had a lot of lucky

635
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 4: breaks and I had a lot of shit turns too,

636
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 4: but you know, yeah, you take to go with the bad.

637
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, I got one question kind of to piggyback off

638
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 6: that and then we'll move on. So when you when

639
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 6: you got back to Memphis the second time was that

640
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 6: when they had rebranded it to us W A yeah, yeah, okay,

641
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 6: and then they were doing the talent swap with Vents,

642
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 6: right because I know Undertaker was there in the early nineties, and.

643
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, they did well.

644
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 6: They I think even Macho Man showed up after he

645
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 6: was a legend, Yeah he did.

646
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 4: He showed up one night and he was working lawl Yeah,

647
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 4: and Lawler was was the biggest baby face on the

648
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 4: planet in Memphis, but he was working the Macho Man,

649
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 4: who was the bigger babyface even and so Lawler did

650
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 4: this thing when he'd make the comeback is he'd take

651
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 4: a bunch of punches and all of a sudden, shrug

652
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 4: him off, pulled the strap down, and he would like

653
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 4: make the Superman come back, and it was so exciting.

654
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 4: And so we're watching his match with the Macho Man

655
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,479
Speaker 4: and they're cheering the Macho Man instead of him, and

656
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: he fired and all of a sudden, the Macho Man's

657
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 4: beating him up with Lawler stops selling, pulls the strap

658
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 4: down and it took a face bump. Was awesome, so clever.

659
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they like I said that, That's what I

660
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 6: grew up.

661
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 4: On, so yeah, so you know, and Lawler was just

662
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 4: Lawler was so clever and so creative and so brilliant,

663
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 4: and he like didn't matter whether his match was good

664
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 4: or bad, and usually was really good, but it didn't

665
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 4: matter because he would just talk into the seats the

666
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 4: following week.

667
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 6: M Yeah, I mean, I kind of wish someone would

668
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 6: do a documentary just on They released one a couple

669
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 6: of years ago called Memphis Heat, and that just kind

670
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 6: of talked about Memphis wrestling in general, but I kind

671
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 6: of wish there was one on Lawyer Lawlor specifically, and

672
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 6: like because I mean he ruled that town for I

673
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 6: mean technically still does almost thirty years, I mean seventies,

674
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 6: eighties and nineties, like he couldn't even like walk down

675
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 6: the street and stuff.

676
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 5: And two thousands.

677
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 4: I mean I've been in the car with him, like

678
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 4: in the event, like where do we driving a van?

679
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 4: You know, from a mini van from towns because I

680
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 4: used to ride with him when I lived in Memphis.

681
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 4: Most of the town lives in Nashville, but I lived

682
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 4: in Memphis the second time I was there, and so

683
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 4: I'd ride with him and it be me and him,

684
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 4: Brian Christopher and Disco Inferno when he rode he when

685
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 4: he came in. And I don't know if this goes

686
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 4: with us that day, but we're doing like ninety five,

687
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 4: one hundred down down I forty or something, and all of.

688
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 5: A sudden, the cop Whites come on. We pull over.

689
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 4: You know, they don't know's it's him because it's a minivans,

690
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 4: so they don't know whose convand it is.

691
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 5: You know, the cop gets out off.

692
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 4: Human lawler sticks his head out the windows, smiles, waves,

693
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 4: The cop goes go ahead. The cop didn't even know

694
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 4: The cop barely had gotten out of the car.

695
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 5: Lawler.

696
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 4: Lawler stuck his head out the window and the CoP's like,

697
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 4: go ahead.

698
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 2: I mean, Lawler's god in Memphis.

699
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 6: Well, the running joke is is that he could be

700
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 6: mayor and he you know, he actually ended up running

701
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 6: for mayor. He didn't win, but I mean he's almost

702
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 6: like a mayor mixed with like a beatle or something.

703
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 6: I mean, that's about the closest way I can compare

704
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 6: compare him. I mean, it's just it's it's ridiculous.

705
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 4: Your TV show would get a sixty rate, No, a

706
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 4: sixty share, a twenty two rating, and a sixty share

707
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 4: every Saturday morning in Man for that Memphis wrestling show,

708
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 4: which is enormous. Sixty percent of the population that's watching

709
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 4: TV is watching that show. I mean, yeah, crazy.

710
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 6: And I mean Memphis has always been kind of like

711
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 6: a million, you know people in this I mean it's

712
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 6: a it's a fairly sized city, so sixty you know,

713
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 6: sixty percent of that as why. I mean, it's just wild.

714
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 6: They actually kind of have a new version of the

715
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 6: TV it's it's USA Wrestling, and they do a lot

716
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 6: of it in Jackson, now where I'm from. But Lawler

717
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 6: is still there Oman Arena. He actually fought the Boogie

718
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 6: Man like four months ago at the Man Arena, seven

719
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 6: thousand people.

720
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 4: Lawler is one of the and and he can draw.

721
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, he's a great artist. I mean

722
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 4: the guy was born with a silver spoon, not with

723
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 4: a silver spoon, but he was born with the with

724
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 4: the luck, with the with a with a rabbit's foot

725
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 4: or an or a force or four leaf clover or

726
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 4: something and like up his ass or something. Because that

727
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 4: man has had a charmed life. But I'll tell you

728
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 4: what he's to me. If if I had to pick

729
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,479
Speaker 4: one of the best wrestler I've ever seen, it's Lawler

730
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: and Lawler and his prime is better than anybody. You know,

731
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 4: Shawn Michaels, Rick Flair, Lawler's better.

732
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, you always have the Mount Rushmore talks and you

733
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 6: never hear Lawler very very much. And I'm like, man,

734
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 6: he you know, I think obviously going to WW and

735
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 6: he didn't get to wrestle a time. He did do

736
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 6: some stuff, but it mainly just announced. I think that

737
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 6: might have hurt his perception as a wrestler a little bit.

738
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 4: Well, he saw him because it was Memphis and nobody

739
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 4: created you know, there wasn't wasn't cable like your pre

740
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 4: internet writing tapes and pre internet, so so you didn't

741
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 4: follow it. And but Lawler could do everything and did everything,

742
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 4: and he drew money.

743
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 5: I mean he literally like.

744
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 4: Put asses in seats, like people would come just to

745
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 4: see his from his matches, you know, whether to see

746
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 4: him win as a babyfacer, get his ass handed to

747
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 4: him as a heel.

748
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, it was. It was a great time growing

749
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 6: up watching all that stuff.

750
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a great place to grow up.

751
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 4: I bet.

752
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 5: So.

753
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: Our guest Raven on the show with U right now,

754
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: and let's just kind of talk about this.

755
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: Raven is probably arguably one of the best gimmicks in

756
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: pro wrestling history.

757
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 5: Uh.

758
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: You've also mentioned before the character known as Raven was

759
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: inspired by the Edgar Allan Poe poem and somewhat of

760
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: a loose interpretation of Body from Point Break. How long

761
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: did it take you to develop the character and then

762
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: how did the grunge influences get added to the character.

763
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 4: I would say honestly that the character is is Jim

764
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 4: Jim Morrison, Robert Plant, Michael Hayes, Jake Roberts, and Scott

765
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 4: Levy all thrown into a stew you know.

766
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 6: That's a that's a pretty that's kind of a perfect description,

767
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 6: that's that's yeah.

768
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, you know, like.

769
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 4: The the Edgar Allan Poe thing only came because I

770
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 4: was trying to think of a name, and uh, I

771
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 4: was sitting there going, how do I come up? I

772
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 4: need a name?

773
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 5: And the character.

774
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 4: I was like, all right, I'm gonna make this character

775
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 4: a dark, tortured, poetic soul. You know, take take the

776
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 4: with the internal drama, the internal pain that I had

777
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 4: as a kid and you know, not fitting in and

778
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 4: make that manifest. And and so I was like, what

779
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 4: do I? What do I wear? How do I?

780
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 5: How do I? How do I like? It's like if

781
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 5: you watch Samuel L.

782
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,959
Speaker 4: Jackson, he has a different hairstyle or a different wig

783
00:35:59,000 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 4: for every movie you make.

784
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 5: You know, every character he builds from the inside out.

785
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 4: And uh, and that's what I felt like I had

786
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 4: to do with this because I wanted it to be

787
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 4: three dimensional, you know, not like everybody else is not

788
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 4: a cookie cutter, not a two dimensional character. I wanted

789
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 4: somebody that had depth and you know, somebody that you

790
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 4: knew would behave in a certain way in every situation,

791
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 4: you know, and and some and so I thought, what

792
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 4: what what what I wear? And if I and I thought,

793
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 4: if I'm gonna appeal to the to the disenfranchised, I

794
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 4: gotta wear I'm gonna wear shorts instead of uh, instead

795
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 4: of wrestling gear, because wrestling gear it's just not gonna

796
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 4: it's not gonna translate. And so I was like, all right,

797
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 4: so I'm gonna wear shorts. And then and and so

798
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 4: I knew I was gonna wear geene shorts. And I

799
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 4: figured I'd cut him down at the knees, because you know,

800
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 4: you cut him any shorter.

801
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 5: Then they looked they they look like normal.

802
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 4: Shorts, you know, or shorts or whatever you want to

803
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 4: call them, but that you know, like like how Awestome

804
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 4: would wear shorts, but you know, I wouldn't mind ripped

805
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 4: and frayed. You know, it holds in him and and

806
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 4: to you know, to connotate a certain attitude. And then

807
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 4: I started thinking, okay, and then grunge was grunge was busy.

808
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 4: It was big. Then so I was like, I should

809
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 4: have a flannel shirt. So I got a flannel shirt,

810
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 4: cut the sleeves off, and I'm like, no, that doesn't work.

811
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 4: I looked like Big Josh, which was a Matt Boorn gimmick.

812
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 6: When he was yeah yeah, he did the big butt

813
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 6: on people, right, that was his face move or something.

814
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah. So I was like, that's not it. So

815
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 4: then I just tied the flannel around my waist, like, oh,

816
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 4: that's perfect. So I got that, and then I started

817
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 4: thinking leather jacket because that's I mean, that's what I

818
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 4: wore anyway. And I took my Doc Martins that I

819
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 4: wore all the time and I put wrestling soles on

820
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 4: him instead of the soul they had, and I was like,

821
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 4: all right. And then I started thinking like I'm a

822
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 4: firm believer and having lots of ring jackets because the

823
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 4: more you have, the more you look like a star.

824
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 4: Except that Raven wouldn't do that because he doesn't care.

825
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 5: So how do I get variety into my outfit?

826
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 4: And because I'm going to stay with the one leather jacket,

827
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,919
Speaker 4: you know, And so I go, huh, if I wear

828
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 4: a concert t shirt, get a concert shirt, cut the

829
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 4: sleeves off. I had big arms, I had a crappy

830
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 4: chest and no abs, and I got a thick waist.

831
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 4: So I'm like, hey, I'll wear a T shirt that'll

832
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 4: hide all my my uh, all my negatives and accentuate

833
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 4: my positives, which were big shoulders and big arms. And

834
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 4: then I can wear a different concert shirt every match,

835
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 4: so there's a variety in my outfits. It's always changing.

836
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 4: And then and then I was like, man, I get

837
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 4: this is And all this came together in like under

838
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 4: five minutes, and I just it just came to me

839
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 4: in an epiphany. And then I was like, Okay, let

840
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 4: me think.

841
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 5: I go.

842
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 4: Huh I needed I need a name and a catchphrase.

843
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 4: And so I was like, huh, I go, And then

844
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 4: I started. I was thinking about the movie The Crow,

845
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 4: and I was like, what was the character in the Crow? Names? Oh,

846
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 4: Eric Draven, Draven Raven Raven quote the Raven Nevermore and boom,

847
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 4: I had my name in my catchphrase.

848
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 5: And then I was off to the races. So huh yeah,

849
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 5: I mean it came to me like that.

850
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 4: But but realizing the character took me a little bit

851
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 4: of time. Like Paulieu stood what I was going for

852
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 4: better than I did it first, Like at the very beginning,

853
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 4: Paulie like he saw immediately like all bookers see themselves

854
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 4: through through wrestling characters like Ben sees himself through the

855
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 4: Million Dollar Man's eyes and through Lex Lugri to Patriot,

856
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 4: those are the characters that he sees the word you

857
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 4: know that, And that's why they were pushed so uh

858
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 4: so uh so much. Not that they didn't deserve it,

859
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 4: but that's why. That's definitely why, you know, one of

860
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 4: the reasons.

861
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 5: But and all.

862
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 4: Bookers see themselves through wrestlers, and Paulie saw him sell

863
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 4: his eyes, he saw through mine and dreamers and uh

864
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 4: and so he really understood my character even better than

865
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 4: I did it first. And the more I the deeper

866
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 4: I got into it, the more I understood it, and

867
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 4: the more I realized how how much it pertained to

868
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 4: myself and my own baggage, and then it was just

869
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 4: a matter of just channeling it, you know.

870
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let me ask you, this, is it true

871
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: that you pitch this character to Jim Cornett who passed

872
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: on it.

873
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 4: M that's what happened. So I told Cornett that I

874
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 4: wanted to come down there. I wanted to get a

875
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 4: new character, because all right, I'll bring you in like September.

876
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 4: September rolls around, he goes, I'll bring in October. October

877
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 4: rolls around, I'll bring in November. And so in the meantime,

878
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 4: I'm like, damn, I'm starting to think I'm not going

879
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 4: to ever get down there. And in the meantime, I

880
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 4: saw E c W on TV, and all I'd heard

881
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 4: was bad things. It's garbage wrestling, it's hardcore's.

882
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 5: This, it's that.

883
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 4: But I finally watched an episode because I'd moved from

884
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 4: I was living in Connecticut working for WWE went out

885
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 4: because I was a producer as well as you know,

886
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 4: remember I said, And so I had to live in Connecticut,

887
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: And so I moved back to Philadelphia because I love

888
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 4: Philly also was the center of the of the unit

889
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 4: of the independent scene universe, you know, it was the

890
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 4: most center place where I could get the most bookings

891
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 4: in a driving you know, in a driving distance. And

892
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 4: and also the Northeast pays the most for indies, you know,

893
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 4: the South. There's probably as many or more shows running

894
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 4: the South, but they don't pay anywhere near what the

895
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 4: North the Northeast does. So so and I, plus I

896
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 4: love Philadelphia, so I moved back to Philly. And uh,

897
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 4: and then I finally watched DCW show and a minute

898
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 4: I saw it, I was like, this is the greatest

899
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 4: TV show I've ever seen. And I mean it was

900
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 4: immediately the best wrestlings program I'd ever watched in you know,

901
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 4: bar none better than Bill wats, better than Raw, better

902
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 4: than anything. I was like, I got to be on

903
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 4: this show. And uh and DDP it Uh. DDP actually

904
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 4: really was a key key component of my career. He

905
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 4: was the one that got me to try out, originally

906
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 4: to get the WCW as Scottie Flamingo, and then with

907
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 4: this he called up Paulie for me, and because uh,

908
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 4: because Paulie and I, you know, I didn't really know

909
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 4: Paulie hardly at all, and I said, can you call

910
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 4: You got to call me in a favor, get me

911
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 4: on this show. And so DDP called Paulie and then

912
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 4: Paulie called me in the rest is history.

913
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 6: Well, you we were making a joke earlier that it's

914
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 6: almost like you already have our questions because you're just

915
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 6: kind of like segueing into everything perfectly. So speaking of ECW,

916
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 6: you know obviously that arguably is what kind of puts

917
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 6: you on the map in a big way. You win

918
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 6: their world title. January ninety six, for fans who you know,

919
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 6: maybe missed it when it was active, or maybe they

920
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 6: were just too young, or you know, if you're like me,

921
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 6: I didn't have access to the TV show until The

922
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 6: Fairy Felt last year when it was on TNN, So

923
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 6: at that point it was almost done, you know, for

924
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 6: for people like that or just now catching up on

925
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 6: it on the WW network. How would you describe ECW

926
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 6: to someone to give them an understanding of how crazy,

927
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 6: insane and influential the promotional promotion was and continues to be.

928
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 7: It was a.

929
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 5: It was a revolution.

930
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,919
Speaker 4: It literally, you know. ECW joined the revolution. It really

931
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 4: was a revolution. The business had got very stud and

932
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 4: uh and predictable. Guys never got beat clean and Paulie

933
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 4: had all clean finishes. They they also had got very like,

934
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 4: very corporate, so there weren't a lot of it. There

935
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 4: was nothing cutting edge to wrestling anymore. And Paulie took

936
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 4: all the influences like that he had, Like he took

937
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 4: some from FMW and Japan which had.

938
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 5: The hardcore blow yourself up matches.

939
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 4: Uh, the Cactus Jack and Terry Funk did where they

940
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 4: have minds around the ring and their minds would blow

941
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 4: up at a certain point. Uh, and so that that

942
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 4: was a hardcore promotion. Then he stole a lot from Memphis,

943
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 4: which is where he started as a manager, and uh,

944
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 4: and he just added all these things and and then

945
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 4: and turned it into basically into the Rocky Horror Picture

946
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 4: Show because the audience became a part of the show

947
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 4: as well to an extent, Like they would bring props

948
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 4: out and the boys would use them. You know, like

949
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 4: one time the fan brought a frozen turkey.

950
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 6: And because I remember.

951
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: Watching the ECW days, you had the the Hawaiian shirt guys,

952
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: the two guys that were at every you know show

953
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: on the hard camera side.

954
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 4: Yeah. But but the fans, but the unknown fans were

955
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 4: really the key because like like I said, one fan

956
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 4: on Thanksgiving brought a frozen turkey, and uh, the fans

957
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 4: would bring ice picks, not ice picks, not ice picks.

958
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 4: They'd bring pizza cutters. They bring cheese graters, you know, which.

959
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: Were like a New Jack Paradise then.

960
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is before New Jack, when Newjack wasn't even

961
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 4: there yet. They would bring all this stuff and uh,

962
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 4: and so the boy you would just go fighting the

963
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 4: crowd and somebody would hand you a cheese grater, so

964
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 4: you go, cheese, great the guy's head. Uh, pizza cutters

965
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 4: were great. Thumbtack guns geese.

966
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 2: I don't think you can get away with that at

967
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 2: any new wrestling show today.

968
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, probably not. But back then it's a different day,

969
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 4: you know, a different error. And uh, you know I

970
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 4: at one point I had a I think, uh when

971
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 4: was it?

972
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 5: I forget what it was.

973
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 4: I had a sidekick. I had a guy in my

974
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 4: flock who carried a blow up, a blow up sex

975
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 4: doll to the ring. I remember, I was. I remember

976
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 4: one time I'm in the locker room and he's blowing

977
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 4: it up and Disco looks at me and he goes,

978
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 4: what would luth say to that?

979
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 5: Uh?

980
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 1: We kind of talked a little bit about the flock,

981
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: and you know, you went to w CW in ninety seven.

982
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: You had a far more successful run than the first time,

983
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: winning the US and tag team titles, forming the Flock

984
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: and of course the Deadpool, and you're also featured in

985
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: several high profile matches and angles. What convinced you to

986
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 1: leave e CW for w CW and what made you

987
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 1: leave roughly two years later?

988
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 4: The money made me leave the first time, made me

989
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 4: leave ECW to w CW and I wanted to. I

990
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 4: wanted to step into a bigger stage, you know.

991
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 5: But I told Paulie I didn't want to leave by it.

992
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 4: I was like, if you can just give me some

993
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 4: kind of raise, you know, remotely close, not even close,

994
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 4: but remotely close, I'll stay. But he couldn't.

995
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 5: And it really, like really tore, like Toro hole and

996
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 5: our bond and uh.

997
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 4: But eventually and Paulie to me, Paulie was the best

998
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 4: work I've ever done was with Paulie. I mean it's

999
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 4: done like you know, we we were, you know, I

1000
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 4: used to drive him nuts because I was loud to noxious,

1001
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 4: but but by the same token, when we worked, we

1002
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 4: worked together it was like you know, de Niro and

1003
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 4: uh and Martin Scorsese, like it was I had found

1004
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 4: the perfect director for my for my talents, and he

1005
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 4: found the perfect guy for his directorial ability, you know.

1006
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 4: And so you know, it's just it was I I

1007
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 4: regret the fact that I didn't get to work with

1008
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 4: him more, and you know after you know, like like

1009
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 4: at another at another company, you know, like I would

1010
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 4: have loved to work with him somewhere else as well.

1011
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 5: But that never happened.

1012
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 4: But but anyway, so then I was in w CW

1013
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 4: and I left there because I was I I thought

1014
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 4: I deserve to be on top or at least, you know,

1015
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 4: in the top mix, and they weren't doing that with me.

1016
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 5: You know, I was kind of stuck in.

1017
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 4: Like there was like ten guys that were like the

1018
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 4: top mix, like Nash Hogan, uh Brett Hart, Macho Man.

1019
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 5: There's like ten guys, and then there.

1020
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 4: Was like me, Booker, Jericho right below that Conan, like

1021
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 4: the four of us were right below it. Bag will

1022
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 4: make a bag will kind of moved up into the top,

1023
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 4: into the top of the heap, and but they were

1024
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 4: never they just wouldn't make it, let us get any

1025
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 4: higher because the top guys didn't want to give up

1026
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 4: their spots even though they've been there in the top

1027
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 4: for years, you know, little Lugers and so forth. And

1028
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 4: so I got really salty, and which I shouldn't have,

1029
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 4: but you know, I I've unfortunately I did, and I

1030
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 4: you know, talked about my discontent to a newspaper and

1031
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 4: then uh so Bischoff calls a meeting and he goes

1032
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 4: first thing he says is he goes Raven if you're

1033
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 4: not happy with the company, there's the door.

1034
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 5: And so I was like, all right, and so I

1035
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 5: walked out.

1036
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 6: That's incredible.

1037
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 2: Did he did he say anything to you as you

1038
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: walked out or no?

1039
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 4: He actually told me later that he had more way

1040
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 4: more respect for me for walking out than uh that

1041
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 4: he ever did before.

1042
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 5: And uh.

1043
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 4: And then like, so I said, so, I figured I'd

1044
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 4: go to the back WWE now now that i'd re

1045
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 4: establish myself as you know, I was raven and uh,

1046
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 4: and he's like, you're not going to w W. I said,

1047
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 4: you said, there's you know, I could go anywhere I

1048
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 4: wanted them. It was like, well, not there. So it

1049
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 4: was either I could either go back to w CW

1050
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 4: because he wanted me to come back, or I could

1051
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 4: go to E CW again. And so I went back

1052
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 4: to e CW. But I didn't realize Paul was burnt out,

1053
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 4: you know, because he'd been running you know, he'd been

1054
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 4: booking for six years or something at that point one company,

1055
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 4: and you can only book for a company for so long,

1056
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 4: like that's why that's why bookers in the territories would

1057
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 4: work for six months or a year and then passed

1058
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 4: the book over before they got stale, because everybody gets stale,

1059
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 4: you know, it's just the nature of a creativity.

1060
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 6: And so you kind of found a loophole then, right,

1061
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 6: he said, no wwe So then you went tow yeah.

1062
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean he could he had to let

1063
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 4: me go somewhere because he said he'd let me, you know,

1064
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 4: if I if I didn't want to work there, there's

1065
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 4: the door. So I was like, you know, so he

1066
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 4: would have you know, but he wanted me to stay

1067
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 4: with the company, and he offered me my job back

1068
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 4: that night. But I know, and then but then he

1069
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 4: told me the idea he had, which at first I liked,

1070
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 4: but then when I realized who was like how it

1071
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 4: was going to play out, I was gonna still be

1072
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 4: stuck in the same position I was. I was like,

1073
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 4: I'll go to E C W then and yeah, and

1074
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 4: so Paulie was excited because you know, he he uh

1075
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 4: you know, because you got to you reuse me. But

1076
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 4: you know, I got really bad with drugs at that

1077
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 4: point after I got there, and uh and but I

1078
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 4: also ended up getting clean eventually, but uh yeah, but

1079
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,919
Speaker 4: uh yeah, yeah, but he was burnt out.

1080
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 5: I was.

1081
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 4: I was burnt out from the drugs and from not

1082
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 4: getting the the to be the star I wanted to be,

1083
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 4: and you know, it just it was a bad confluence

1084
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 4: of events. But you know, but it all worked out because,

1085
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 4: you know, because I'm happy with who I am now.

1086
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 4: You know, at that point, I still was still had

1087
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 4: my inner demons, which really got bad when I went

1088
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 4: to WWE, because they treated you know, they used my character,

1089
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 4: they didn't use me worth a ship and so and

1090
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 4: people unfortunately, most people do this. They equate their value

1091
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 4: with how their job is, how they're being used in

1092
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 4: their in their chosen field, like if you're whether you're

1093
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 4: a janitor or a CEO, if you're not being treated right,

1094
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 4: and most people equate that with them being there's something

1095
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 4: wrong with them.

1096
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 5: You know. It's like we we we.

1097
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 4: Judge our own self worth over how we're being treated,

1098
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 4: which is not how how our self worth is is gained.

1099
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 4: It's it's gained by what you view of yourself, not

1100
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 4: what other people think of you, you know, right and

1101
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 4: not and certainly not how they they you know, because

1102
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 4: there could be a million reasons why you're not getting

1103
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 4: the promotion or you're not getting you know, being used

1104
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 4: in a better way to company and has nothing to

1105
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 4: do with you, or it could have something to do

1106
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 4: with you, But that still doesn't mean you're a bad person,

1107
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 4: unless you're a bad person. But I had a but

1108
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 4: I always equated my career with my with my self

1109
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 4: work and my I had low self worth to begin with,

1110
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 4: which is part of the reason I chose a career

1111
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 4: in in the celebrity business. And uh, because I wanted

1112
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 4: to be adored by perfect strangers, because you know, I

1113
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 4: thought that might help, you know, But of course it doesn't.

1114
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 4: But you don't, you know, but you don't. It doesn't matter.

1115
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 4: You're just you're trying to fight for something to fill

1116
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 4: a hole. You're trying to fill a void. And uh.

1117
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 4: But eventually I started seeing us A one one us

1118
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 4: A WWE. I started seeing a psychologist, and I started

1119
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 4: spending a lot of time on the couch and uh.

1120
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 4: And and she taught me to view my own self

1121
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 4: worth as as who I am as a person.

1122
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 5: Not how anybody, not how anybody.

1123
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 4: Hires me or fires me, or uses me or treats me,

1124
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 4: but how I view myself. And I and I'm I'm

1125
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 4: an I'm a good person and I know that.

1126
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 5: So but I had to go through.

1127
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 4: I had to go through all that pain to get

1128
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 4: to that place, so, which included being a drug addict

1129
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 4: and in quitting drugs and then you know a lot

1130
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 4: of stuff. But anyway, so it all worked out in

1131
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 4: the end.

1132
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 5: I'm content. I'm happy with who I am, and so.

1133
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 4: It has a happy ending. But it could have had

1134
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 4: a really tragic ending. I thank god it didn't, especially

1135
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 4: in this business because the casualty rate is high.

1136
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 6: Oh man, it's it's I think it's gotten better now,

1137
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 6: but at one point, I think they said the average

1138
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 6: death rate for a wrestler was like forty eight or

1139
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 6: something forty six. I mean, it's just.

1140
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 4: Where I worry now about the injuries, like the injury

1141
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 4: of people dying from injuries, and like now, yeah, the

1142
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 4: drugs are so not prevalent like they were. I mean,

1143
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 4: you know back in the day, was you know, like, yeah,

1144
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 4: everybody had a handful of pills.

1145
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 5: You want a handful, you want something, Pick a couple.

1146
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 4: What are they how? It doesn't matter? Take them? Okay,

1147
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 4: you know it was like that. And now guys, you know,

1148
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 4: they don't go out to the bars all night, they

1149
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 4: don't drink all night and do drugs all night, they

1150
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 4: go back to the hotel, play video games, and and

1151
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 4: it's a different breed of people. But but and so

1152
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 4: they're gonna be a lot safer. But by the same token,

1153
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 4: the acrobatics and the stunt work is getting so crazy

1154
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 4: that guys are going to start dropping or having injuries

1155
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 4: that are going to be totally putting them out of

1156
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 4: the game long before they get a chance to have

1157
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 4: a twenty thirty year career. But that was the great

1158
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 4: thing about wrestling was, you know, there was never any pension,

1159
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 4: there was no there was no healthcare, no nothing. But

1160
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 4: you could work for thirty, you know, even forty years sometimes,

1161
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 4: you know, if you started young enough, you know, because

1162
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 4: you could work when you're fifty because it's a work,

1163
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 4: it's not a shoot. You're not fighting for real, you know,

1164
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 4: And as long as you look young, you could stay

1165
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 4: in the game. But I don't think guys today are

1166
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 4: going to be sticking around that long because they're not

1167
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 4: going to be able to So so there's a there's

1168
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 4: a lot of upside. There's a huge upside to the

1169
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 4: lack of drugs, but there's also a downside to the

1170
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 4: to the acrobatic level. The guys are taking it, trying

1171
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 4: to outdo each other, and it's just it's it's not

1172
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 4: going to be a you know, it can cutessians are

1173
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 4: gonna multiply and the injuries are gonna multiply and uh

1174
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 4: and it's gonna be it's gonna be sad. But you know,

1175
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 4: but then again, that's the you know, the life of

1176
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 4: a stuntman, so to speak.

1177
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, we saw last summer, we saw Superstar Bill Dundee

1178
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 6: was in Nashville, and he's still going. He's like seventy one,

1179
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 6: He's still still in there.

1180
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 4: He can still he can still work. Yeah, how Slaller now.

1181
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 6: He's he's yeah, he's the mid sixties at least he

1182
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,439
Speaker 6: might be getting close to seventies by now.

1183
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, he still loves to work.

1184
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 6: He's still Yeah, he at least once or twice a

1185
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 6: month in Jackson. He's still had the headline.

1186
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt the interview, but I just want to

1187
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,760
Speaker 1: let you guys know that this interview is absolutely amazing.

1188
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: We we literally talked to Raven for over an hour

1189
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: and a half. And what we're gonna do is we're

1190
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,399
Speaker 1: going to split this episode into two episodes. So come

1191
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 1: back Monday, we'll have part two of the episode. We'll

1192
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: dive more into w c W, we'll dive more into

1193
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: Impact Wrestling, and we'll dive more into WW and we'll

1194
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 1: kind of talk about a situation where Raven almost cost

1195
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 1: the WWE an entire WrestleMania during that hardcore match with him,

1196
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: Kane and Big Show. So Monday, the part two of

1197
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: this episode is gonna drop. I really do appreciate you

1198
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: guys being here. It is a tough week for wrestling fans.

1199
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: I know April fifteen, twenty twenty, will go down as

1200
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: a day in infamy in wrestling, and our thoughts are

1201
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: going out to all those that have been affected at WWE,

1202
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 1: and we're thinking about you guys, and you know, if

1203
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: anything we could do for you, I know, we're just

1204
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: a little podcast show that talks about wrestling. We would

1205
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: love to help you guys out. But yeah, So this

1206
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: concludes Part one of our interview with Raven. Part two

1207
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: drops on Monday. Appreciate you guys being here on the

1208
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: show with us today. Follow us Twitter, Instagram, It's Battleground

1209
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: podcast on Instagram, Twitter is Battleground IHR and we're on

1210
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: TikTok now I'm attempting at TikTok, but we are on TikTok,

1211
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: It's battle on podcasts, and of course you can find

1212
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: us on Facebook. Have a great weekend, stay safe, wash

1213
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: your hands, don't touch your face, and uh We're out

1214
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 1: until Monday, Part two with Raven Monday.

1215
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 7: We hope you enjoyed today's episode of the Battleground Podcast.

1216
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 7: Make sure you give it five stars and a nice review.

1217
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 7: To stay up to date with the show, follow them

1218
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 7: at Battleground Podcast on Instagram.