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Speaker 1: Welcome to the piked to Massacre a production of iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: and Katie Studios Episode eight, Truth Be Revealed. Over the
Speaker 1: course of seven episodes, we have examined the details of
Speaker 1: the murders of eight members of the Roden family, the
Speaker 1: investigation that was launched in their wake, and what led
Speaker 1: up to the arrests of six members of the Wagner family.
Speaker 1: Now we're going to look at where the case stands
Speaker 1: and what lies ahead next week's episode, Burning Questions. I'm
Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie
Speaker 1: Ledecker and Jeff Shane. When we left off last week,
Speaker 1: it was June twenty six, twenty nineteen, and Frederica Wagner
Speaker 1: was in the defendant's chair in a Pike County courtroom.
Speaker 1: She was facing charges of obstruction of justice and perjury
Speaker 1: and connection with the Roden murders. Here's Frederica's niece, Derey,
Speaker 1: defending her aunt's claims. First, the prosecutors falsely believed the
Speaker 1: bulletproof best were purchased before the road and homicides. Both
Speaker 1: sides know that it is not true. They were in
Speaker 1: fact purchased on May the seventh, twenty and sixteen, fifteen
Speaker 1: days after the day of the homicides. So that's proven.
Speaker 1: We know that there's like receipts, right, yep, got receipt Scott.
Speaker 1: We have everything. Second, she guessed and thought that she
Speaker 1: bought them from Amazon. Now why they made a big
Speaker 1: deal about what what origin? They came off the internet?
Speaker 1: She ordered him off the internet. Whenever you go on
Speaker 1: the Internet, a bunch of places come up. Usually Amazon
Speaker 1: is the first thing that comes up. She did that
Speaker 1: a lot, but they made a big deal about it.
Speaker 1: So they went back through her books and they found
Speaker 1: out that she did buy them, but it wasn't from Amazon.
Speaker 1: It was eBay. But criminal defense attorney Mike Allen told
Speaker 1: Jeff that Frederica State are a much bigger deal than
Speaker 1: deray things. Well, obviously, when you have a situation like
Speaker 1: this and someone involved with the people that are charged
Speaker 1: makes a purchase of two bulletproof fast, whether it's from
Speaker 1: eBay or Amazon, it's something that the prosecution would be
Speaker 1: interested in. And you know, she apparently was before the
Speaker 1: grand jury when she misrepresented, if you will, where she
Speaker 1: bought these things from. And it's relevant and also too,
Speaker 1: I think it would be fair to say that the
Speaker 1: prosecution probably wanted this put on it, these charges put
Speaker 1: on her to have a little bit of leverage with
Speaker 1: her too. Do you think that her explanation of just saying, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't remember, I got it confused as an attorney,
Speaker 1: do you think that makes someone look more guilty? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does, especially something like this. And I know she's elderly,
Speaker 1: but boy, she should certainly seems like she's pretty sharp.
Speaker 1: But it's a rather big event. In most people's lives,
Speaker 1: if they purchased bulletproof vest online or anyway you purchased them,
Speaker 1: that you would think that you would remember where you
Speaker 1: purchased them from. So yeah, it doesn't make her look
Speaker 1: good at all. Ultimately, Frederico Wagner's lawyer filed receipts that
Speaker 1: proved she made the purchases fifteen days after the slayings.
Speaker 1: This led the defense team to turn over potential evidence
Speaker 1: as required to the prosecution, too late to meet the
Speaker 1: criteria for a speedy trial. They dismissed the charges against
Speaker 1: Frederico Wagner, while reserving the right to charge her again.
Speaker 1: Mike Allen broke down what all this means with respect
Speaker 1: to the Ohio Speedy trial statute. It's generally you have
Speaker 1: to bring a felony case within two hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: days from the indictment. I think the prosecution was running
Speaker 1: out of time, so strategically, I think they decided to
Speaker 1: dismiss it with the option and the right to refile
Speaker 1: it again if that becomes necessary, so she could get
Speaker 1: charged with the same crimes again. Oh yeah, they were
Speaker 1: dismissed without prejudice, which means that the state can refile
Speaker 1: them at a later date. But it seems that Frederico
Speaker 1: Wagner doesn't foresee that happening. Here. She is speaking to
Speaker 1: the press after the hearing. Trust in the Lord with
Speaker 1: all your heart, lean not to your own understanding, in
Speaker 1: all your ways. Acknowledge Him and he will direct your path.
Speaker 1: And as my attorney will tell you, it was dismissed
Speaker 1: because I was innocent. They had no evidence against me.
Speaker 1: I never lied about anything. Frederico Wagner's freedom validates what
Speaker 1: Deray has believed all along. She has never in her
Speaker 1: life done anything wrong. She's not capable of it. And
Speaker 1: you know, if she thought that her kids would have
Speaker 1: done something bad, she would have recommended that they turned
Speaker 1: themselves in for anything. I mean she she lives by
Speaker 1: what she says she lives by, which is what well.
Speaker 1: She gives all the glory to God. Angela, Billy Jake,
Speaker 1: and George Wagner were charged with aggravated murder. Angela Wagner's mother,
Speaker 1: Rita Joe Nukam, and Billy Wagner's mother, Frederica were both
Speaker 1: charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. Nucombe was also
Speaker 1: charged with forgery. All six of them pled not guilty,
Speaker 1: and our justice system presumes innocence until guilt is proven.
Speaker 1: But one thing that doesn't help Frederica Wagner's case is
Speaker 1: a revelation by the prosecution at a pre trial hearing
Speaker 1: for her son Billy in twenty twenty, The States submitted
Speaker 1: evidence showing that the night before Frederica testified before the
Speaker 1: grand jury in twenty eighteen, she had searched the Internet
Speaker 1: for information about penalties for perjury. Here's our anonymous Wagner
Speaker 1: family relative. She shared her thoughts with Jeff. Do you
Speaker 1: think that his mom, Billy's mom, Frederica, Do you think
Speaker 1: she had any involvement? I believe that I believe she
Speaker 1: could have. Yet I believe that she definitely. Uh. I
Speaker 1: don't believe she try to stop it, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't believe that she. I believe it's anything she probably
Speaker 1: definitely she would have encouraged it and her story should
Speaker 1: do what he did. Others like Roden family friend Stefane,
Speaker 1: thinks that Frederico wasn't just involved in the murders, but
Speaker 1: could possibly have orchestrated the whole thing. I don't take
Speaker 1: her for a dumb woman at all. She's a businesswoman.
Speaker 1: She's probably shrewd. She's the head the monarch, you know,
Speaker 1: so the monarch is usually the one that that has
Speaker 1: their thumb on everybody. She wanted to control over everything,
Speaker 1: seems to me. Like to investigative journalist Jodi Barr, the
Speaker 1: alleged involvement of Frederico Wagner up ends convened of who
Speaker 1: actually could be capable of being involved in murder. I
Speaker 1: think this case, if it ended today as it is alleged,
Speaker 1: I don't think there is anybody on this planet that
Speaker 1: could look at those people and say, those people look
Speaker 1: like a family who could swatter eight human beings if
Speaker 1: you ever thought you knew what a mass murderer looked like.
Speaker 1: I think this case in Pike County is showing you
Speaker 1: you have no idea. So here we are four years later.
Speaker 1: Two of the six defendants are free and four others
Speaker 1: are in prison facing death penalty charges, accused of killing
Speaker 1: eight members of the Roden family. Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 1: As it stands now, the trials for Billy, Angela, Jake,
Speaker 1: and George Wagner are slated to begin in the next
Speaker 1: few months. Now. To really understand this case and where
Speaker 1: it stands in what's to come, we'll have to examine
Speaker 1: some of the most important points. In the five thousand
Speaker 1: pages of discovery documents that list the prosecution's evidence. There
Speaker 1: are more than three written thirty two thousand files of
Speaker 1: evidence in this case. One of the exhibits in the
Speaker 1: prosecution's arsenal is related to Billy Wagner in his copy
Speaker 1: of the nineteen ninety nine movie The Boondock Saints. The
Speaker 1: film is about two brothers in Boston who exact a
Speaker 1: form of vigilanty justice by murdering mobsters and other criminals.
Speaker 1: It's extremely violent and over the top, but the big
Speaker 1: takeaway for this case is that the brothers in the
Speaker 1: film use silencers. On their guns, a method that members
Speaker 1: of the Wagner family are accused of using to execute
Speaker 1: the Rodents. As we covered in the last episode, a
Speaker 1: homemade silencer was discovered at a farm once owned by
Speaker 1: Jake and George Wagner, but Deray thinks the connection is
Speaker 1: tenuous at best. I read deck and I had to laugh.
Speaker 1: I had to laugh so hard. Okay, so you have
Speaker 1: to remember that this was a very organized, brilliantly done execution.
Speaker 1: This is something that you wouldn't learn on a DVD.
Speaker 1: Somebody with military background, Navy seals. I mean, whoever did
Speaker 1: it was was brilliant. They're professional. These people are not
Speaker 1: professional killers. Mike Gallant told Jeff that the DVD could
Speaker 1: be a building block in the state's case. You can't
Speaker 1: watch a movie and learn how to wipe out an
Speaker 1: entire family. That seems like a stretch. What is your
Speaker 1: take on that. Yeah, I don't think they could introduce
Speaker 1: it for the proposition that that's how the Wagner's learned
Speaker 1: how to do that. I think if the state introduced
Speaker 1: it or attempted to get it introduced, it would just
Speaker 1: be kind of peripheral to like, hey, you know, somebody
Speaker 1: in that family watched that movie or ordered that movie,
Speaker 1: or bought that movie, and it's a movie about vigilante justice.
Speaker 1: But I would certainly cry at least because apparently in
Speaker 1: this case, the allegation is silencers were used, and they
Speaker 1: were used in that movie as well, So it would
Speaker 1: be one piece of evidence that they could add on
Speaker 1: to other evidence. It would be a piece of evidence
Speaker 1: if admitted that they could talk about in closing arguments. So,
Speaker 1: while not determinative in any way, shape or form, it
Speaker 1: is evidence that could be helpful to the state. There's
Speaker 1: a mountain of other evidence the prosecution plans on using.
Speaker 1: One that stands out is an Excel spreadsheet that contains
Speaker 1: five hundred and nineteen entries of messages about child custody.
Speaker 1: I spoke with my Gallon about it. Another piece of
Speaker 1: evidence that's been talked about are these Excel spreadsheets. Apparently
Speaker 1: they had hundreds of entries of cataloging the messages about
Speaker 1: child custody and Facebook screenshots regarding it, what does that
Speaker 1: tell you, Well, it tells me that could be part
Speaker 1: of the motive in this case. And it's pretty strong
Speaker 1: evidence of motive if they're keeping all these things and screenshots,
Speaker 1: and it seems that they were kind of obsessed with
Speaker 1: his desire to get custody and control. That would be circumstantial,
Speaker 1: but circumstantial evidence sometimes can be very strong evidence. Just
Speaker 1: because evidence is circumstantial doesn't mean that it's not good
Speaker 1: evidence and strong evidence. But you know, it's like you're
Speaker 1: dropping pebbles into a pond. Every little pebble makes a ripple,
Speaker 1: and you know, you build on those things and at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, at the prosecution does it right.
Speaker 1: Every little bit helps with respect to building a case.
Speaker 1: The discovery documents also include information about a person that
Speaker 1: some speculate could be an informant. Jodie Barr told us
Speaker 1: about trying to track down this source. The name of
Speaker 1: the informant has not been published, which is why it's
Speaker 1: bleeped in his interview. The only thing I know is
Speaker 1: that was a name given very early on who I
Speaker 1: was told did business with Chris Rodin. I was never
Speaker 1: able to even find that this person exists. I guess
Speaker 1: they did. This person really does exist. But when I
Speaker 1: was given a list of names of people who could
Speaker 1: have potentially either been involved in this, knew about this.
Speaker 1: This is one person I tried to track down and
Speaker 1: find over in Sciota County, which is just across the
Speaker 1: line from Pike, and I was never able to find
Speaker 1: this person. But I was told that this person knew
Speaker 1: Chris Senior intimately as far as you know, they were
Speaker 1: together a lot, and they were in some business ventures together.
Speaker 1: But again I was never able to find this person
Speaker 1: or to verify anything that was ever told me about them.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors for the case claim another confidential informant told them
Speaker 1: of a specific meeting at Frederico Wagner's home. It occurred
Speaker 1: with the other accused family members and allegedly include to
Speaker 1: talk of quote taking revenge on a special agent then
Speaker 1: Attorney General Mike Dawine, and Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader.
Speaker 1: The revenge was allegedly planned if her family was arrested.
Speaker 1: Jodie Barr dissected these claims with Jeff. It just seems
Speaker 1: so careless that the people accused of this would be
Speaker 1: bringing outsiders into a home, although we don't know who
Speaker 1: the confidential informant is, but that they would risk getting
Speaker 1: caught if they were so skillful in pulling this off
Speaker 1: that they would bring outsiders in to have discussions like
Speaker 1: this where they're number one admitting it essentially, but secularly,
Speaker 1: you're talking about taking hits out on the chief law
Speaker 1: enforcer in Pike County and the chief law enforce for
Speaker 1: the state of Ohio. But that's an interesting point that
Speaker 1: it doesn't really compute that if they were like ninjas
Speaker 1: and they could do this of elaborate crime, why would
Speaker 1: they be so sloppy then to have these conversations with
Speaker 1: other people. When I see confidential informant in this sentence
Speaker 1: meant a part of he goes. I wonder if one
Speaker 1: of the Wagoners has rolled over and is helping this
Speaker 1: investigation still something I know there have been some plea
Speaker 1: deals already made here, some charges dismissed. But you've got
Speaker 1: to wonder who is this informant because if it's a
Speaker 1: member of the Wagner family, and I think that's a
Speaker 1: twist no one saw coming. Let's stop here for a
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Speaker 1: to Lie nine at nine pm. He'll forget about the
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Speaker 1: at uns dot coo. The discovery documents also have two thousand,
Speaker 1: nine hundred and eighteen pages related to DNA evidence. Mike
Speaker 1: Allen spoke to us about the role DNA could play
Speaker 1: in the case. I can tell you from dealing with
Speaker 1: DNA evidence both as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney.
Speaker 1: That's not good news for the defense If they've got
Speaker 1: almost three thousand pages of DNA evidence, evidence that would
Speaker 1: have been sent to the lab and comes back, they've
Speaker 1: got to have something. I mean, I would be shocked
Speaker 1: if they didn't have some credible DNA evidence against at
Speaker 1: least one of these defendants, probably more of them. That's
Speaker 1: bad news for the defense. There's just no way of
Speaker 1: getting around it. Because DNA evidence, if extracted proper and
Speaker 1: analyze properly, it's pretty much lights out if they did
Speaker 1: it correctly. So I think that's problematic for the defense.
Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff. In addition, the report also
Speaker 1: lists one thousand, one hundred and seventy crime scene photos,
Speaker 1: cyber forensic reports of the Wagners, their cell phones and
Speaker 1: their computers, and hundreds of pages citing reference to the
Speaker 1: recovery of firearms and ballistic testing. In fact, at the
Speaker 1: pre trial hearing for George Wagner just a few weeks ago,
Speaker 1: we got a glimpse into some of the evidence they have.
Speaker 1: So this hearing was for emotion. The defense was making
Speaker 1: to get George Wagner, the eldest son, released from prison
Speaker 1: on bond. In response, the prosecution laid out some of
Speaker 1: the evidence they have against George Wagner, basically as an
Speaker 1: argument to keep George behind bars. One of the lead
Speaker 1: detectives on the case testified that he and his team
Speaker 1: have real ballistic evidence connecting firearms used in the homicides
Speaker 1: with guns believed to be owned by the Wagners, including
Speaker 1: a twenty two caliber long rifle, a forty caliber handgun,
Speaker 1: and a thirty caliber gun. Prosecutors also pointed to evidence
Speaker 1: that shoeprints from the exact same shoes purchased at Walmart
Speaker 1: by the Wagners to allegedly frame Dana Rodin's brother, you remember,
Speaker 1: James Manley, were found in dried blood at two of
Speaker 1: the crime scenes, and yet this in fact receipts for
Speaker 1: those exact same shoes. There are a very specific Walmart
Speaker 1: athletic shoe were found during a search of the Wagner
Speaker 1: property in twenty sixteen. There are also over eight thousand
Speaker 1: recorded statements from interviews with George Wagner who claimed there
Speaker 1: really was no issue regarding custody between Jake Wagner and
Speaker 1: Hannah Rowdin over their daughter Sophia, and that we know
Speaker 1: is just not true. Right, So, with all of this
Speaker 1: the Wagners still continue to declare their innocence. Is it
Speaker 1: really possible that they did? In facts have nothing to
Speaker 1: do with it. Well. Recently, one of the Wagner's lawyers
Speaker 1: made statements to the US saying that a loose custody
Speaker 1: arrangement between Jake Wagner and Hannah further daughter Sophia was
Speaker 1: being formalized by another attorney in Ohio at the time
Speaker 1: of the killings, but due to the fact that Hannah
Speaker 1: was murdered, the agreement was never formalized, so it's not
Speaker 1: permissible in court. I spoke with Deray about her second cousin,
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, to see if we could get any more
Speaker 1: information on the custody arrangement between him and Hannah Rodan,
Speaker 1: do you know anything about like they were trying to
Speaker 1: get custody of Sophia before the murders. I don't know
Speaker 1: anything about that, Okay, Yeah, I was just curious, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you hear a lot about that. Yeah, I never heard,
Speaker 1: you know, I talked to my aunt a lot that
Speaker 1: was never mentioned. So do you think that that is
Speaker 1: fabricated as well? If I'm hearing you right, I don't
Speaker 1: believe that it has anything to do with it. I
Speaker 1: don't believe there was a custody battle. I think that's
Speaker 1: another made up lie. What makes you say that because
Speaker 1: I never heard anything about it. I mean, somebody did it,
Speaker 1: but we don't know who, and we are for sure
Speaker 1: it wasn't the Wagner family. It's a tragedy. And most
Speaker 1: of the people that I talked to, they're all thinking
Speaker 1: it's drug related, something that had to do with drug trafficking.
Speaker 1: We don't know. It's who knows. It's a mystery. We
Speaker 1: found it strange for a woman who covers her family's
Speaker 1: case closely not to know anything about the custody issues
Speaker 1: that other family relatives disclose to us before. Even stranger
Speaker 1: is something else that was presented at George Wagner's most
Speaker 1: recent pre trial hearing Again He's the eldest son. Prosecutors
Speaker 1: pointed to a screenshot of a message from Hannah Rodin
Speaker 1: to one of her friends. In this message, she's discussing
Speaker 1: the Wagner's attempt to force her to sign forged custody documents,
Speaker 1: the ones that we've talked about in previous episodes. Now
Speaker 1: get this. The screenshot was found on the Wagner family
Speaker 1: computer seized during the investigation, and again allegedly the Wagner's
Speaker 1: got it by hacking into Hannah wrote In's Facebook account,
Speaker 1: the message is nothing short of chilling. It reads and
Speaker 1: I quote, I won't sign papers. Ever, it won't happen.
Speaker 1: They'll have to kill me first. It does seem clear
Speaker 1: that the Wagners were sort of obsessed with custody and
Speaker 1: control of Sophia, and in speaking with people close to
Speaker 1: the family, this actually wasn't the first time custody became
Speaker 1: an issue. Christina Howard's sister, Tabby, was married to George
Speaker 1: Wagner for several years. The two had a son together,
Speaker 1: but eventually split up. According to Christina, following their divorce,
Speaker 1: the Wagner family tried to force Tabby into handing over
Speaker 1: custody of their son. This is Christina's recollection of events.
Speaker 1: She spoke to Jeff about it. Somehow or another angela
Speaker 1: like manipulated her with different papers to sign and stuff,
Speaker 1: and they had Tabby finding over the rights and custody
Speaker 1: to George. You know, they had money for expensive lawyer,
Speaker 1: and Tabby did in and so they had custody plumb
Speaker 1: up until you know, they got caught and stuff for
Speaker 1: the crimes. Do you think that she was obsessed with
Speaker 1: having custody of all of her grandkids? Oh? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: Why do you say that? Tabby Like whenever she would
Speaker 1: try to reach out to George, like hey, can I
Speaker 1: come visit my son? And Angela would get on there
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, he's not your son anymore. Would
Speaker 1: tell Tabby like, oh, you mighty gave virtul him, but
Speaker 1: I'm his real mother because I take care of em,
Speaker 1: and all these just nasty things. And Christina told us
Speaker 1: that in the aftermath of Tabby and George's custody battle,
Speaker 1: Hannah rode In contacted Tabby for advice and how to
Speaker 1: deal with their own custody issues with the Wagner's. I
Speaker 1: knew that Hannah was struggling to keep custody of Sophia
Speaker 1: because she went to her and my sister were pretty close,
Speaker 1: and you know, Tabby straight up told her, like, a,
Speaker 1: if they present you with papers, do not sign them.
Speaker 1: Give them to a lawyer first. Let the lawyer read
Speaker 1: it over and proceed from there, because they will try
Speaker 1: to steal custody of Sophia. Even if they're trying to
Speaker 1: act like they're understanding and all of the swords. Do
Speaker 1: not listen to them because they will strew you over.
Speaker 1: Christina's account of George Wagner and Tabby's dispute, in addition
Speaker 1: to everything we've heard about Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin,
Speaker 1: clearly lays out a pattern of deceit and control when
Speaker 1: it comes to custody. But when Jeff asked de Ray
Speaker 1: about George and Tabby's custody battle, she soundly refuted Christina's claims.
Speaker 1: I want your side of this. People say that, like
Speaker 1: George had a custody situation where he tried to get
Speaker 1: custody of his son Jake, maybe a similar situation. People
Speaker 1: are saying that, like Angela was just obsessed with getting
Speaker 1: the kids and wanted all the control of the children. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. I don't believe that. I know
Speaker 1: she loved him, but I don't believe she was obsessed.
Speaker 1: I think she was a normal grandmother and then she
Speaker 1: was an excellent role model. Well, we don't know all
Speaker 1: the details of George Wagner and Tabby's custody case. There
Speaker 1: is evidence that the Wagners did deceive Hannah Rodin by
Speaker 1: trying to convince her to sign fake custody documents. Here's Stephanie,
Speaker 1: followed by Jeff. It seems being locked up in prison
Speaker 1: hasn't even stopped the Wagners for one second from trying
Speaker 1: to manipulate those closest to them. As we discussed earlier
Speaker 1: in September of twenty nineteen, Angela Wagner tried to discuss
Speaker 1: case strategy even influences testimony from prison. Prosecutors also claim
Speaker 1: that Angela Wagner called her mother Rita Newcome. She's the
Speaker 1: one that's accused of forging those custody documents. She called
Speaker 1: her several times and basically asked her not to testify
Speaker 1: against the family, and also told her how to explain
Speaker 1: away the custody documents that she's accused of forging. As
Speaker 1: a punishment, a judge suspended Angela Wagner's in jail phone
Speaker 1: and mail privileges. Mike Allen told us that this is
Speaker 1: just another blow for the defense. Any criminal defense attorney
Speaker 1: that is doing their job, and I'm sure every one
Speaker 1: of these criminal defense attorneys are doing their job, they
Speaker 1: tell their client from day one, do not under any
Speaker 1: circumstances discuss the case on the phone. Because you can
Speaker 1: guarantee that the conversations are being taped, Prosecutors can use
Speaker 1: those conversations if the person is talking about strategy, make
Speaker 1: some kind of admission, intimidates witnesses, the recording doesn't lie,
Speaker 1: and that could end up to be some pretty strong
Speaker 1: evidence against her at the end of the day. George
Speaker 1: Wagner has also raised eyebrows for an odd request he
Speaker 1: made after five months in prison, he has to be
Speaker 1: transferred from general population to solitary confinement. Usually, solitary confinement
Speaker 1: is given to a prisoner who either is a threat
Speaker 1: to other prisoners or who may be in danger in
Speaker 1: the general population. Mike Allen told us that George had
Speaker 1: a different reason. His stated reason was that he wanted
Speaker 1: to be able to study the Bible in peace. That's
Speaker 1: a little unusual when inmates ask for solitary A lot
Speaker 1: of times, although they may not say it, they're asking
Speaker 1: for that because they've been threatened, and you know, they
Speaker 1: want to make sure that they're as safe as they
Speaker 1: can be in jail. But when I read that, I
Speaker 1: kind of wondered, is that the real reason? I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, you just have to wonder what the motivation is.
Speaker 1: So how does all this evidence end up? How strong
Speaker 1: is the state's case against Billy, Angela Jake and George Wagner.
Speaker 1: I'm a criminal defense attorney. I used to be a prosecutor,
Speaker 1: and as a criminal defense attorney, you know you never
Speaker 1: say never as far as you know your chances in
Speaker 1: front of a jury. Having said that, the evidence sure
Speaker 1: seems strong, and we don't know all the evidence. All
Speaker 1: we know is what's public. So the old adage that
Speaker 1: a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich is true. But
Speaker 1: smart prosecutors don't indict cases that they don't think they
Speaker 1: can win beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think Mike Dwine,
Speaker 1: who was in the driver's seat in this thing, there's
Speaker 1: no way he would have indicted this if he didn't
Speaker 1: think he could prove it, or ultimately someone could prove it.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, let's stop here for
Speaker 1: a quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment.
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Speaker 1: We've been covering this case for over two years, and
Speaker 1: in that time we've examined not only the details of
Speaker 1: the eight murders themselves, but the multiple theories that have
Speaker 1: surrounded them. We looked into the speculation of a drug connection.
Speaker 1: Discoveries of the murder scenes are now advancing the theory
Speaker 1: killings could be related to a drug cartel. The Rodents
Speaker 1: had a pretty sizable crop of marijuana plants on their property,
Speaker 1: so you know, there were indications that they were involved
Speaker 1: in some drug deals and drug trade with marijuana. We
Speaker 1: explored the rumors of smalltown revenge. There had been reports
Speaker 1: of scuple with other people in public in his message
Speaker 1: and he's talking about I'm going to break his fucking
Speaker 1: legs and curb stop his ass. We also investigated a
Speaker 1: series of eerily similar killings. We have had a double homicide,
Speaker 1: four children left alive. This is very similar to the
Speaker 1: Rodent case. And we had heard that there were other
Speaker 1: people who were shot Nolan I execution style in their homes.
Speaker 1: And when you're looking at the Rodent case and then
Speaker 1: you see these other cases in a county that small,
Speaker 1: you start asking yourself, what the hell is going on.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense that this is happening there unless
Speaker 1: there is some sort of common denominator. But in the end,
Speaker 1: it was some of the people who were closest to
Speaker 1: the Rodents that were arrested for orchestrating the brutal, cold
Speaker 1: plotted massacre at the center of this case, or members
Speaker 1: the Wagner family whom we believe the avalanche will show,
Speaker 1: conspired together to kill these ape As we struggled to
Speaker 1: make sense of the crimes, we've listened to the impassioned
Speaker 1: arguments of family members who insist that their relatives are innocent.
Speaker 1: Our family joke is that there's no way that Betty
Speaker 1: Crocker and the Dobe Boys could ever go to an
Speaker 1: extreme of murder. Somebody did it, but it wasn't. Now
Speaker 1: we've heard first person accounts from relatives that support the
Speaker 1: primary motive in this case, Hannah and Jake with the
Speaker 1: little girl. There was a custody battle and Hannah wasn't
Speaker 1: allowing Jake to see her, and it just set him
Speaker 1: off to the point where Jake he had made the comments,
Speaker 1: you know that he was going to kill her. But
Speaker 1: there are some who are simply torn. Ers were arrested,
Speaker 1: You had your fifty fifty. You had people that said, yes,
Speaker 1: I knew that they did that, and then you've got
Speaker 1: people that say, there's no way those people did that.
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody would believe that, you know, a
Speaker 1: family could have put together such a tactical hit on
Speaker 1: another family that they had created life with. It's still
Speaker 1: too difficult to accept and too hard to believe. Many
Speaker 1: in the Pikedon area believe there is no doubt that
Speaker 1: the Wagoners plotted this horrific killing spree. People wanted to
Speaker 1: paint the sort of few between the Rodents and Wagoners,
Speaker 1: and something like the hatfields of McCoys. Doesn't make sense
Speaker 1: to me if they are innocent, because who else would
Speaker 1: do that. Whether the Wagoners are innocent or guilty doesn't
Speaker 1: change the fact that the lives of eight members of
Speaker 1: a revered local family, the Rodents, were taken on April
Speaker 1: twenty second, twenty sixteen. Dana Roden, thirty seven year old mother,
Speaker 1: a grandmother and nurse living in her brand new home.
Speaker 1: Chris Rodin, forty year old, loving father and grandfather. Dana
Speaker 1: and Chris's oldest son, twenty year old Frankie Roden, Frankie's fiance,
Speaker 1: twenty year old Hannah Gilly, who was in bed with
Speaker 1: their six month old baby, Frankie Roden's three year old son,
Speaker 1: both of whom were spared. Hannahme Roden, nineteen year old
Speaker 1: mother to two year old Sophia and her five day
Speaker 1: old newborn Kylie, also spared. Dana and Chris's youngest child,
Speaker 1: sixteen year old Chris Junior, who had just gotten his
Speaker 1: driver's license, Chris Senior's older brother, forty four year old
Speaker 1: Kenneth Roden, father of three, and his cousin, thirty eight
Speaker 1: year old Gary Roden, who was staying with Chris Senior
Speaker 1: that night. It is horrible to this day and Dana
Speaker 1: and her family will never never get to celebrate birthdays,
Speaker 1: you know, and have parties and get togethers and barbecues
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's it's terrible. It just really
Speaker 1: hurts my heart. In all this, it's sometimes easy to
Speaker 1: forget those whose lives were spared that faithful night, but
Speaker 1: who lost everything in the process. The road in children,
Speaker 1: it's two families really have been destroyed, and at the
Speaker 1: center of that tragedy is you know, are these kids
Speaker 1: whose families are torn apart and lost. Sofia is the
Speaker 1: one that is losing the most at this point in
Speaker 1: her life because she's lost her mom's side of the family,
Speaker 1: she's lost her father's side of the family, and she
Speaker 1: is in child protective custody where no one knows where
Speaker 1: she is. She has lost on both sides. She's lost
Speaker 1: both of her families. Because it's supposed to be happy
Speaker 1: for her. This is her childhood. The tragic legacy of
Speaker 1: the road and murders continues to loom over the town
Speaker 1: of Pyton, Ohio. You know, whatever happened that morning on
Speaker 1: Union Hill Road, you know it impacted a lot more
Speaker 1: than just those people who were killed. I mean, you've
Speaker 1: got their family members, and you've got people in that
Speaker 1: area are going to remember this forever. This has never
Speaker 1: going away. My family was a part of this horrible,
Speaker 1: I mean just absolutely awful act. You know that they
Speaker 1: destroying this other family completely. They have changed the family's
Speaker 1: life for the rest of their life. So but then
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, well, you know ours has changed
Speaker 1: as well. You know, we get tortured daily with the
Speaker 1: thought of how our family could have done something like this,
Speaker 1: and we still have love for them. I do feel
Speaker 1: so terrible for the Dents, and I've always wanted to
Speaker 1: be able to express how sorry I am. And just
Speaker 1: because we still love Angela and Jake doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: we aren't sorry for what take done. I get with
Speaker 1: trials for Billy, Angela, Jake, and George Wagner potentially just
Speaker 1: months away, the residents of the Piketon area sit in anticipation,
Speaker 1: awaiting an end to the most gruesome chapter in the
Speaker 1: town's history and a conclusion to Ohio's most notorious murder case.
Speaker 1: I've been in the system for over fifty years, and
Speaker 1: that is extremely rare that you got for people, for
Speaker 1: defendants facing the death penalty. What will happen is anyone's
Speaker 1: guests if they walk out of that courtroom without any convictions.
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine how the rodents go on in
Speaker 1: the public too. I mean, how do you go on
Speaker 1: not knowing for sure exactly who did this? Oh, it's
Speaker 1: going to be broken hearted, It's gonna be broken hearts.
Speaker 1: I honestly think that that the wagoners. It's going to
Speaker 1: a mistrial. It's searched for the truth, and you know
Speaker 1: that old proverb from Shakespeare the truth will out in
Speaker 1: the end. I believe that as it applies to this case,
Speaker 1: the mystery will be solved. The truth will eventually and
Speaker 1: inevitably be discovered, And it looks like that's the way
Speaker 1: they're heading. I, like everybody else, want to know. I
Speaker 1: want to know how the story is. Reach out to
Speaker 1: us on our social media outlets with questions We're on Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 1: and Twitter at piked and Massacre. We look forward to
Speaker 1: answering our questions and upcoming episodes. Piked and Massacre is
Speaker 1: executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing
Speaker 1: and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional producing
Speaker 1: by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. The pikedon Massacre is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
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