1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:23,210 Speaker 1: Pushkin a warning this episode will contain a mention of suicide. 2 00:00:23,610 --> 00:00:27,810 Speaker 1: If you're suffering with suicidal thoughts, support is available, for example, 3 00:00:28,130 --> 00:00:31,450 Speaker 1: from nine eight eight Suicide and Crisis Lifeline in the 4 00:00:31,570 --> 00:00:37,450 Speaker 1: US or the Samaritans in the UK. In the nineteen eighties, 5 00:00:37,850 --> 00:00:42,690 Speaker 1: satanic panic ripped through America as listeners to cautionary tales 6 00:00:42,890 --> 00:00:48,290 Speaker 1: well know from our episode demonizing dungeons and dragons, but 7 00:00:48,530 --> 00:00:52,970 Speaker 1: tabletop role playing games weren't the only thing spreading alarm. 8 00:00:53,210 --> 00:00:58,610 Speaker 1: So too was rock music. Were musicians slipping in secret 9 00:00:58,730 --> 00:01:03,690 Speaker 1: messages convincing young children to take drugs and worship the devil, 10 00:01:04,330 --> 00:01:08,610 Speaker 1: Messages that could be decoded only if you played the 11 00:01:08,730 --> 00:01:15,130 Speaker 1: music backwards. Twenty thousand Hertz is a brilliant podcast all 12 00:01:15,170 --> 00:01:19,850 Speaker 1: about sound, and they've explored the bizarre history and science 13 00:01:19,930 --> 00:01:23,930 Speaker 1: around this rock music hysteria. So I'm gonna hand over 14 00:01:23,970 --> 00:01:25,250 Speaker 1: to them for this episode. 15 00:01:27,250 --> 00:01:39,050 Speaker 2: Sir, it'sillary. I want to take you back to nineteen 16 00:01:39,130 --> 00:01:43,170 Speaker 2: eighty five. Tragedy occurs in Reno, Nevada. Two young men 17 00:01:43,210 --> 00:01:46,090 Speaker 2: attempt to take their lives together. One of them dies 18 00:01:46,130 --> 00:01:49,490 Speaker 2: instantly and three years later the other dies from complications 19 00:01:49,530 --> 00:01:52,650 Speaker 2: related to the attempt, but their parents aren't convinced. The 20 00:01:52,690 --> 00:01:55,330 Speaker 2: young men acted on their own. The night of the tragedy, 21 00:01:55,610 --> 00:02:07,130 Speaker 2: they listened to this song. This is the Judas Priest 22 00:02:07,130 --> 00:02:09,890 Speaker 2: cover of the Spooky Tooth song better by You, Better 23 00:02:09,930 --> 00:02:13,410 Speaker 2: than Me. In nineteen ninety the young men's family sued 24 00:02:13,530 --> 00:02:22,090 Speaker 2: Judas Priest over this song You. The prosecution against Judas 25 00:02:22,090 --> 00:02:25,290 Speaker 2: Priest made a big claim. They said secret messages in 26 00:02:25,330 --> 00:02:28,090 Speaker 2: the song encouraged them to take their lives, and the 27 00:02:28,130 --> 00:02:30,490 Speaker 2: only way to hear these messages was to play the 28 00:02:30,610 --> 00:02:40,810 Speaker 2: record backwards. Listen carefully. Did you hear the words I 29 00:02:40,850 --> 00:02:43,850 Speaker 2: shot my demons dead when I'm with you? Here it 30 00:02:43,890 --> 00:02:59,530 Speaker 2: is again. Adding secret backwards messages and music wasn't anything new. 31 00:03:00,050 --> 00:03:02,810 Speaker 2: Even before the so called Satanic panic of the eighties 32 00:03:02,810 --> 00:03:05,810 Speaker 2: and nineties. People had been playing recorded sounds backwards since 33 00:03:05,810 --> 00:03:07,370 Speaker 2: the invention of the phonograph. 34 00:03:07,810 --> 00:03:11,170 Speaker 3: The ability to capture and preserve sound also gave people 35 00:03:11,170 --> 00:03:12,890 Speaker 3: the ability to manipulate it. 36 00:03:13,370 --> 00:03:16,290 Speaker 2: That's Brian Gardner. Brian wrote about the history of back 37 00:03:16,330 --> 00:03:18,090 Speaker 2: masking for Atlas Obscura. 38 00:03:18,370 --> 00:03:21,770 Speaker 3: When people talk about back masking in the audio world, 39 00:03:22,410 --> 00:03:26,890 Speaker 3: it's generally considered a deliberate recording process where a sound 40 00:03:26,930 --> 00:03:30,290 Speaker 3: whether it's an instrument or a voice, is recorded and 41 00:03:30,330 --> 00:03:33,850 Speaker 3: played backward and then placed somewhere into the forward mix 42 00:03:33,890 --> 00:03:40,250 Speaker 3: of a song. Sometimes that can be obvious. You're carrying 43 00:03:40,290 --> 00:03:42,770 Speaker 3: a song and then you hear some sort of weird 44 00:03:42,810 --> 00:03:45,530 Speaker 3: garbled reverse version. You can kind of make it out. 45 00:03:45,850 --> 00:03:48,690 Speaker 3: Sometimes it's more hidden in a track, but that's the 46 00:03:48,690 --> 00:03:50,210 Speaker 3: basic idea of back masking. 47 00:03:51,330 --> 00:03:54,130 Speaker 2: The earliest example of back masking in popular music comes 48 00:03:54,130 --> 00:03:56,850 Speaker 2: in the early sixties from a group called the Eligibles, 49 00:03:57,090 --> 00:04:00,010 Speaker 2: but their most famous recording has no backmasking in it. 50 00:04:00,210 --> 00:04:07,090 Speaker 2: Just right, I'm a trick, that's right. The Eligibles, who 51 00:04:07,130 --> 00:04:10,370 Speaker 2: perform the Gilligan's Island theme song, also had the first 52 00:04:10,410 --> 00:04:13,930 Speaker 2: backmasking hit in the late fifties. They recorded this song 53 00:04:14,130 --> 00:04:15,530 Speaker 2: called Car Trouble. 54 00:04:16,690 --> 00:04:18,850 Speaker 4: Car Trouble on Lonely Wrong. 55 00:04:19,530 --> 00:04:22,530 Speaker 3: It's about a boy who's taking out a girl on 56 00:04:22,610 --> 00:04:25,770 Speaker 3: a date in his car. During the song, there are 57 00:04:25,810 --> 00:04:29,850 Speaker 3: two instances of what sound like really garbled yelling. The 58 00:04:29,890 --> 00:04:33,770 Speaker 3: first instance is the girl friend's father be back. 59 00:04:33,610 --> 00:04:39,010 Speaker 5: Home, mad I ask, or health girl. 60 00:04:40,610 --> 00:04:44,170 Speaker 3: Supposedly, the message is now look a here, kats, stop 61 00:04:44,250 --> 00:04:46,010 Speaker 3: running these records backwards. 62 00:04:46,530 --> 00:04:48,890 Speaker 2: Let's hear that moment with the dad yelling again, but 63 00:04:48,970 --> 00:04:52,770 Speaker 2: this time backwards. Now look at her. 64 00:04:52,690 --> 00:04:54,530 Speaker 5: That stop running his records back war. 65 00:04:59,130 --> 00:05:01,570 Speaker 2: After the girlfriend's dad yells, the boy and the girl 66 00:05:01,610 --> 00:05:03,570 Speaker 2: go on their date. When they try to come back, 67 00:05:03,810 --> 00:05:06,250 Speaker 2: the boy's car won't start, They have to walk home, 68 00:05:06,450 --> 00:05:08,530 Speaker 2: show up late, and dad yells again. 69 00:05:15,410 --> 00:05:17,930 Speaker 3: The song says, didn't I tell you to get my 70 00:05:18,010 --> 00:05:22,210 Speaker 3: daughter back by ten thirty? You bum to get. 71 00:05:22,010 --> 00:05:26,090 Speaker 2: My daughter back by ten thirty Yo bye. A few 72 00:05:26,170 --> 00:05:28,570 Speaker 2: years after Car Trouble, it was the Beatles who really 73 00:05:28,610 --> 00:05:30,930 Speaker 2: brought back masking to the forefront of music culture. 74 00:05:31,410 --> 00:05:34,850 Speaker 3: The Beatles were recording nineteen sixty six as a revolver. 75 00:05:35,290 --> 00:05:38,730 Speaker 3: The idea for back masking made its way into the 76 00:05:38,770 --> 00:05:47,490 Speaker 3: song Rain. If you listen to it all the way through, 77 00:05:47,690 --> 00:05:57,650 Speaker 3: there's sort of this ending coda, and here's that coda, 78 00:05:58,530 --> 00:06:01,170 Speaker 3: and it's just basically a reverse of the first line 79 00:06:01,210 --> 00:06:01,730 Speaker 3: of the song. 80 00:06:02,330 --> 00:06:04,370 Speaker 2: And here's that coda played in reverse. 81 00:06:13,050 --> 00:06:17,730 Speaker 3: Bands were actually legitimately doing this, They were inserting messages. 82 00:06:17,810 --> 00:06:21,250 Speaker 3: Often they were just reversed lyrics in their own songs, 83 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:24,650 Speaker 3: but in general fans of rock and roll music were 84 00:06:25,050 --> 00:06:28,090 Speaker 3: aware of this, at least the sort of geeky audio 85 00:06:28,130 --> 00:06:28,770 Speaker 3: file ones. 86 00:06:29,530 --> 00:06:31,930 Speaker 2: So far this all sounds pretty tame, but it was 87 00:06:31,970 --> 00:06:34,130 Speaker 2: this next song that was the spark that ignited the 88 00:06:34,170 --> 00:06:35,570 Speaker 2: initial flames of panic. 89 00:06:35,970 --> 00:06:42,570 Speaker 4: Number nine, number nine, number nine, number nine, number nine, 90 00:06:43,330 --> 00:06:46,930 Speaker 4: number nine, number nine Number. 91 00:06:47,370 --> 00:06:50,170 Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty nine, there was a radio DJ named 92 00:06:50,250 --> 00:06:53,090 Speaker 3: Russ Gibb and he gets a phone call from a 93 00:06:53,170 --> 00:06:57,010 Speaker 3: student at the Eastern Michigan University and the student claims 94 00:06:57,170 --> 00:07:01,530 Speaker 3: that there's this rumor about Paul McCartney. He's been dead actually, 95 00:07:01,730 --> 00:07:06,050 Speaker 3: and replaced by some strange doppelganger Paul McCartney who looks 96 00:07:06,050 --> 00:07:07,970 Speaker 3: and sounds just like him, but is not the real 97 00:07:08,010 --> 00:07:08,930 Speaker 3: Paul McCartney. 98 00:07:09,850 --> 00:07:14,210 Speaker 2: Oh no, The caller tells GiB to basically play the 99 00:07:14,210 --> 00:07:18,530 Speaker 2: Beatles song Revolution number nine backward. GiB then here's the phrase, 100 00:07:18,650 --> 00:07:21,810 Speaker 2: turn me on, dead Man, Turn me on dead Man, turn. 101 00:07:21,690 --> 00:07:26,370 Speaker 4: Me on, me on, trn me on. 102 00:07:27,090 --> 00:07:30,090 Speaker 3: So GiB freaks out and begins telling all of his 103 00:07:30,170 --> 00:07:33,410 Speaker 3: listeners about what he calls sort of this great Beatles 104 00:07:33,450 --> 00:07:36,570 Speaker 3: cover up, and more and more people start listening for clues, 105 00:07:36,930 --> 00:07:40,170 Speaker 3: and lo and behold, they found them, including there was 106 00:07:40,210 --> 00:07:43,450 Speaker 3: another alleged back mask message Paul is a dead man. 107 00:07:43,690 --> 00:07:45,490 Speaker 3: Miss him, miss him, miss him? And that was in 108 00:07:45,530 --> 00:07:46,850 Speaker 3: the song I'm So Tired. 109 00:07:53,610 --> 00:08:04,490 Speaker 2: The Dead Pole messages found by Beatles fans sound stranger 110 00:08:04,570 --> 00:08:07,130 Speaker 2: and subtler than the ones in Rain or Car Trouble. 111 00:08:07,650 --> 00:08:10,810 Speaker 2: Many people, including the Beatles, said that's because there wasn't 112 00:08:10,890 --> 00:08:14,610 Speaker 2: actual backmasking. They didn't mean to do it. Keep in mind, 113 00:08:14,770 --> 00:08:16,970 Speaker 2: this was at a time when people were already worried 114 00:08:16,970 --> 00:08:18,250 Speaker 2: about subliminal messages. 115 00:08:19,810 --> 00:08:24,890 Speaker 3: There was this renewed interest in subliminal manipulation, and this 116 00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:30,570 Speaker 3: is largely the result of books. They claimed, basically that 117 00:08:30,930 --> 00:08:35,490 Speaker 3: the general public was being manipulated by ad agencies. 118 00:08:36,250 --> 00:08:39,610 Speaker 2: The idea was that hidden messages could get into your subconscious. 119 00:08:40,210 --> 00:08:42,930 Speaker 2: Once planted there, they could influence the way you think. 120 00:08:43,370 --> 00:08:48,650 Speaker 3: Supposedly, certain images would be inserted, you know, on the 121 00:08:48,690 --> 00:08:52,210 Speaker 3: front box of cigarettes, or you could make out naked 122 00:08:52,290 --> 00:08:56,370 Speaker 3: women in the bubbles in a gin ad in a magazine. 123 00:08:57,330 --> 00:09:01,530 Speaker 2: These subliminal manipulations were not limited to visuals. Many believed 124 00:09:01,530 --> 00:09:04,490 Speaker 2: these backwards messages and songs could also control the way 125 00:09:04,530 --> 00:09:08,570 Speaker 2: people think and act. To be more blunt, many people 126 00:09:08,610 --> 00:09:12,010 Speaker 2: believed that backmasking could make you worship the devil. 127 00:09:13,250 --> 00:09:15,210 Speaker 3: There had always been this idea that rock and roll 128 00:09:15,290 --> 00:09:20,650 Speaker 3: was the devil's music. And once certain conservative pastors found 129 00:09:20,650 --> 00:09:23,930 Speaker 3: out about this, this gave them sort of an opportunity 130 00:09:24,010 --> 00:09:26,010 Speaker 3: to listen to these things, and I guess in some 131 00:09:26,090 --> 00:09:32,690 Speaker 3: cases they literally could hear the voice. 132 00:09:36,250 --> 00:09:39,330 Speaker 2: What these pastors found shocked them. Here's a clip from 133 00:09:39,330 --> 00:09:42,090 Speaker 2: the Praise the Lord Show. In it, pastor Paul Crouch 134 00:09:42,090 --> 00:09:44,490 Speaker 2: and his wife Jan listen as their son Paul Junior 135 00:09:44,570 --> 00:09:47,290 Speaker 2: plays led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven backwards. 136 00:09:48,010 --> 00:09:50,770 Speaker 6: All right, I'll slow this down a little bit. Listen 137 00:09:50,810 --> 00:10:00,090 Speaker 6: for Here's to My Sweet Satan. Did y'all hear that? 138 00:10:02,970 --> 00:10:06,450 Speaker 2: And it wasn't just led Zeppelin. Satanic messages were supposedly 139 00:10:06,530 --> 00:10:09,890 Speaker 2: hidden all over rock albums. Here's a backwards version of 140 00:10:09,930 --> 00:10:13,890 Speaker 2: Electric Light Orchestra's El Dorado. Listen for this message. He 141 00:10:14,090 --> 00:10:17,410 Speaker 2: is the nasty one Christ, You're infernal. It is said 142 00:10:17,570 --> 00:10:18,330 Speaker 2: we're dead men. 143 00:10:21,530 --> 00:10:27,810 Speaker 7: Yes, Exco wants by Sto Funes sah. 144 00:10:29,970 --> 00:10:30,010 Speaker 6: We. 145 00:10:32,730 --> 00:10:36,010 Speaker 2: And here's the backwards version of Hotel California by the Eagles. 146 00:10:36,210 --> 00:10:39,610 Speaker 2: The message this time is Satan had Hm he organized 147 00:10:39,610 --> 00:10:48,890 Speaker 2: his own religion. Yes. Beyond that, here's the band Sticks 148 00:10:48,930 --> 00:10:52,570 Speaker 2: proclaiming Satan moves through our voices in the backwards version 149 00:10:52,650 --> 00:11:03,410 Speaker 2: of the song Snowblind. Apparently, there are examples of this 150 00:11:03,650 --> 00:11:06,770 Speaker 2: all over seventies and eighties rock music. The Praise the 151 00:11:06,850 --> 00:11:10,490 Speaker 2: Lord Show wasn't the only one finding these hits subversive messages. 152 00:11:11,290 --> 00:11:15,890 Speaker 3: There was a famous pastor, Gary Greenwald, who actually started 153 00:11:16,090 --> 00:11:19,170 Speaker 3: a sort of back masking tour where he would travel 154 00:11:19,210 --> 00:11:21,610 Speaker 3: around the United States and even went up to Canada 155 00:11:22,410 --> 00:11:26,650 Speaker 3: and would hold basically what our record listening parties where 156 00:11:26,890 --> 00:11:30,410 Speaker 3: he would play these things for the audience, pointing out 157 00:11:30,450 --> 00:11:34,370 Speaker 3: every time what the back mask message supposedly was, and 158 00:11:34,410 --> 00:11:37,210 Speaker 3: people would freak out. Often they would be followed by 159 00:11:37,490 --> 00:11:41,650 Speaker 3: album burning parties or whatever. He also had a television 160 00:11:41,650 --> 00:11:43,930 Speaker 3: show briefly where he would do these sort of things 161 00:11:43,930 --> 00:11:44,410 Speaker 3: as well. 162 00:11:45,770 --> 00:11:49,250 Speaker 7: Is it possible that this could be preparing us subconsciously 163 00:11:49,330 --> 00:11:52,650 Speaker 7: through backward masking to accept a child that is coming 164 00:11:52,850 --> 00:11:56,050 Speaker 7: that is none other than the son of Satan. Let 165 00:11:56,050 --> 00:11:58,570 Speaker 7: me play that for you backwards and you tell me who. 166 00:11:58,450 --> 00:12:11,450 Speaker 6: The child is. Listen carefully. 167 00:12:18,690 --> 00:12:22,490 Speaker 2: By this point many had gone into full blown satanic panic, 168 00:12:22,970 --> 00:12:25,610 Speaker 2: so obviously the next step was for the government to 169 00:12:25,650 --> 00:12:26,570 Speaker 2: put a stop to it. 170 00:12:27,250 --> 00:12:30,610 Speaker 3: Starting in the early eighties, you saw an uptick in 171 00:12:30,850 --> 00:12:35,610 Speaker 3: actual legislation aimed at combating backmasking. 172 00:12:36,370 --> 00:12:38,970 Speaker 2: A member of the California State Assembly created a panel 173 00:12:38,970 --> 00:12:42,770 Speaker 2: to investigate satanic messages in Stairway to Heaven and other songs. 174 00:12:43,410 --> 00:12:46,890 Speaker 3: He gathered all these witnesses, He gathered a person who 175 00:12:46,970 --> 00:12:50,610 Speaker 3: purportedly was a neuroscientist who sort of explained how these 176 00:12:50,650 --> 00:12:54,890 Speaker 3: backward messages were influencing or could influence kids who didn't 177 00:12:54,890 --> 00:12:58,530 Speaker 3: necessarily even play the albums backwards. And then it kind 178 00:12:58,570 --> 00:12:59,490 Speaker 3: of just snowballed. 179 00:13:01,610 --> 00:13:04,290 Speaker 2: The call for local legislation turned into a cry for 180 00:13:04,450 --> 00:13:07,930 Speaker 2: national laws. Now it was time for the US Congress 181 00:13:07,970 --> 00:13:09,050 Speaker 2: to get involved. 182 00:13:09,330 --> 00:13:14,050 Speaker 3: People were actively introducing legislation and trying to pass bills that, 183 00:13:14,410 --> 00:13:18,610 Speaker 3: if not outlawed the practice, mandated warning signs on all 184 00:13:18,610 --> 00:13:22,770 Speaker 3: the albums that supposedly had these nefarious messages on them. 185 00:13:23,450 --> 00:13:26,530 Speaker 2: Rock bands and producers continued to claim that backwards messages 186 00:13:26,570 --> 00:13:29,170 Speaker 2: were completely and totally unintentional. 187 00:13:29,810 --> 00:13:32,730 Speaker 3: Styx's James Young called the whole idea of satanic back 188 00:13:32,770 --> 00:13:37,530 Speaker 3: masking a hoax perpetrated by religious zealots. Led Zeppelin's record 189 00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:42,010 Speaker 3: label issued one statement based on the backmasking controversy, which 190 00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:45,210 Speaker 3: was our turntables only rotate in one direction. 191 00:13:46,130 --> 00:13:49,090 Speaker 2: So when tragedy struck in Reno, Nevada in nineteen eighty five, 192 00:13:49,410 --> 00:13:52,650 Speaker 2: the music industry was already under a microscope for back masking, 193 00:13:53,210 --> 00:13:56,050 Speaker 2: and even though none of these laws actually passed, the 194 00:13:56,130 --> 00:13:58,730 Speaker 2: Judas Priest trial in nineteen ninety had everyone in the 195 00:13:58,810 --> 00:14:02,250 Speaker 2: music industry watching. If the band lost, it would set 196 00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:05,410 Speaker 2: a precedent that anyone could be sued for backwards combinations 197 00:14:05,410 --> 00:14:10,130 Speaker 2: of sounds creating an unintentional message. We'll get that plus 198 00:14:10,170 --> 00:14:22,810 Speaker 2: the brain science behind backmasking. After this, in the late eighties, 199 00:14:22,850 --> 00:14:27,850 Speaker 2: the Satanic panic was in full swing. Parents, government officials, churches, 200 00:14:27,970 --> 00:14:31,170 Speaker 2: and even some scientists believe that backwards messages in rock 201 00:14:31,210 --> 00:14:36,290 Speaker 2: songs influenced young people in terrible ways. Then, in nineteen ninety, 202 00:14:36,570 --> 00:14:39,690 Speaker 2: Judas Priest were being sued over hidden commands in their songs, 203 00:14:39,730 --> 00:14:43,530 Speaker 2: which allegedly influenced two people to take their lives. If 204 00:14:43,570 --> 00:14:45,970 Speaker 2: they lost this case, it would mean that any band 205 00:14:46,010 --> 00:14:48,650 Speaker 2: could be held liable for the actions resulting from their 206 00:14:48,770 --> 00:14:50,330 Speaker 2: supposedly hidden messages. 207 00:14:53,490 --> 00:14:55,810 Speaker 5: In a one hundred and eight page written decision, if 208 00:14:55,890 --> 00:14:59,330 Speaker 5: Judge Jerry Carr Whitehead found that Judas Priest and CBS 209 00:14:59,370 --> 00:15:02,290 Speaker 5: records are not liable in causing the deaths. The judge 210 00:15:02,290 --> 00:15:04,730 Speaker 5: also ruled that there is no proof of backwards masking 211 00:15:04,770 --> 00:15:07,610 Speaker 5: on the album and in any case, no scientific proof 212 00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:10,890 Speaker 5: that backwards masking can be per received or affect conduct. 213 00:15:12,330 --> 00:15:15,090 Speaker 2: In the end, Judas Priest and the music industry were 214 00:15:15,130 --> 00:15:18,090 Speaker 2: cleared of all charges, and no matter if it's intentional 215 00:15:18,250 --> 00:15:22,930 Speaker 2: or accidental, they proved backmasking can't control your thoughts. Still, 216 00:15:23,130 --> 00:15:27,050 Speaker 2: backmasking had become a really, really big deal. Some musicians 217 00:15:27,090 --> 00:15:30,130 Speaker 2: today still use it to play intentional messages in their songs, 218 00:15:30,450 --> 00:15:33,530 Speaker 2: albeit usually to poke fun at the whole controversy. Here's 219 00:15:33,530 --> 00:15:36,570 Speaker 2: an example from weird Al Yankovic's I Remember Larry See 220 00:15:36,610 --> 00:15:49,090 Speaker 2: if you can understand what he's saying. So, what weird 221 00:15:49,090 --> 00:15:51,570 Speaker 2: Al was saying was, Wow, you must have an awful 222 00:15:51,610 --> 00:15:53,690 Speaker 2: lot of free time on your hands. Here it is 223 00:15:53,730 --> 00:16:06,890 Speaker 2: one more time. Despite the music industry's efforts, many people 224 00:16:07,010 --> 00:16:11,010 Speaker 2: still hear unintentional backmasking message is Here's an ironically titled 225 00:16:11,050 --> 00:16:13,970 Speaker 2: song from Cheap Trick called Gonna Raise Hell. See if 226 00:16:14,010 --> 00:16:21,450 Speaker 2: you can make out the message, you can hear a 227 00:16:21,530 --> 00:16:24,570 Speaker 2: huge difference between the two. Weird AU's message is clear 228 00:16:24,930 --> 00:16:28,730 Speaker 2: and cheap Trick's message is much harder to understand. Supposedly, 229 00:16:28,770 --> 00:16:31,170 Speaker 2: they're saying, you know, Satan holds the keys to the lock. 230 00:16:31,570 --> 00:16:41,090 Speaker 8: Here it is again, I think is pretty evident in 231 00:16:41,490 --> 00:16:47,170 Speaker 8: the difference you hear between songs that have intentional backmasking 232 00:16:47,250 --> 00:16:48,650 Speaker 8: and songs that don't. 233 00:16:48,690 --> 00:16:53,090 Speaker 2: Necessarily that's Ashley Hamer, the managing editor for Curiosity dot 234 00:16:53,130 --> 00:16:56,650 Speaker 2: Com and co host of the Curiosity Daily podcast. Ashley 235 00:16:56,690 --> 00:16:58,490 Speaker 2: wrote about backmasking for the website. 236 00:16:58,890 --> 00:17:01,730 Speaker 8: I'm actually also a freelance musician. I have an undergrad 237 00:17:01,770 --> 00:17:04,010 Speaker 8: an of Masters in jazz performance. 238 00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:06,810 Speaker 2: So she's uniquely qualified for this particular topic. 239 00:17:07,330 --> 00:17:11,410 Speaker 8: When it's intentional, you hear a very clear voice saying something. 240 00:17:12,010 --> 00:17:15,010 Speaker 8: But when you hear these unintentional ones, it sounds like 241 00:17:15,050 --> 00:17:17,570 Speaker 8: a ghost, like someone who can't quite talk. They're trying 242 00:17:17,570 --> 00:17:20,690 Speaker 8: to speak through a veil or something. And the same 243 00:17:20,810 --> 00:17:23,330 Speaker 8: is true when you turn them backward. 244 00:17:23,890 --> 00:17:27,050 Speaker 2: Here's that backwards message in weird Al's I Remember Larry Again, 245 00:17:27,290 --> 00:17:40,250 Speaker 2: but this time played forward. It sounds a lot like 246 00:17:40,290 --> 00:17:42,210 Speaker 2: those unintentional backwards messages. 247 00:17:42,730 --> 00:17:46,650 Speaker 8: It sounds satanic, it sounds ghostly. I don't think there 248 00:17:46,730 --> 00:17:49,330 Speaker 8: is a human on earth who can actually talk like that. 249 00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:53,010 Speaker 8: Bob Garcia of Anam Records once said, it must be 250 00:17:53,050 --> 00:17:55,570 Speaker 8: the devil putting these messages on the records, because no 251 00:17:55,610 --> 00:17:58,010 Speaker 8: one here knows how to do it. When you see 252 00:17:58,050 --> 00:18:01,810 Speaker 8: the kinds of back masking that has become famous, the 253 00:18:01,890 --> 00:18:05,930 Speaker 8: inadvertent back masking, it's pretty simple and it doesn't really 254 00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:08,610 Speaker 8: make a lot of sense, Like they're not really things 255 00:18:08,610 --> 00:18:12,170 Speaker 8: that people would normally say, like Stairway to Heaven by 256 00:18:12,250 --> 00:18:19,770 Speaker 8: led Zeppelin, Here's to My Sweet Satanish. It only has 257 00:18:19,970 --> 00:18:23,250 Speaker 8: one two syllable word in it. Everything else is just 258 00:18:23,370 --> 00:18:26,450 Speaker 8: a single syllable. And that's how a lot of these 259 00:18:26,490 --> 00:18:30,890 Speaker 8: supposed backmasking messages are. They're very simple. They're just syllable 260 00:18:30,930 --> 00:18:34,610 Speaker 8: by syllable, and a single syllable can sound like a 261 00:18:34,610 --> 00:18:37,610 Speaker 8: lot of different things. 262 00:18:38,530 --> 00:18:41,570 Speaker 2: Even if the words are simple, these unintentional noises sound 263 00:18:41,650 --> 00:18:45,450 Speaker 2: to us like language. This concept is called paridolia. It 264 00:18:45,490 --> 00:18:49,130 Speaker 2: basically means that us humans really like to find patterns 265 00:18:49,490 --> 00:18:52,410 Speaker 2: sometimes in places where there are no patterns. It's the 266 00:18:52,410 --> 00:18:54,450 Speaker 2: same reason why you might see a face on Mars 267 00:18:54,650 --> 00:18:57,250 Speaker 2: or a bunny rabbit in a cloud. Our minds are 268 00:18:57,290 --> 00:18:59,490 Speaker 2: constantly on the lookout to make sense of the world 269 00:18:59,570 --> 00:19:02,530 Speaker 2: around us. Sometimes we turn things that don't actually make 270 00:19:02,570 --> 00:19:04,050 Speaker 2: sense into things that do. 271 00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:09,850 Speaker 8: The big thing with back masking is the idea that 272 00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:14,250 Speaker 8: we really love language. It's really important for us to 273 00:19:14,410 --> 00:19:17,450 Speaker 8: be able to communicate. It is basically what keeps us alive. 274 00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:20,970 Speaker 8: If we can't tell each other our needs, if we 275 00:19:21,010 --> 00:19:24,530 Speaker 8: can't get mates, if we can't tell each other that, oh, 276 00:19:24,570 --> 00:19:27,090 Speaker 8: I found this food over here, let's go get it, 277 00:19:27,530 --> 00:19:29,090 Speaker 8: we're not really going to survive. 278 00:19:30,050 --> 00:19:33,730 Speaker 2: Our brain is hardwired to find messages. We're so good 279 00:19:33,770 --> 00:19:36,530 Speaker 2: at picking out language that sometimes we do it by accident. 280 00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:40,170 Speaker 2: That's because our brains process information in two different ways, 281 00:19:40,530 --> 00:19:42,090 Speaker 2: bottom up and top down. 282 00:19:42,730 --> 00:19:46,410 Speaker 8: Bottom up processing is basically when you build things from 283 00:19:46,450 --> 00:19:49,330 Speaker 8: the ground up. You have a texture or a color 284 00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:52,290 Speaker 8: or a shape, and you figure out what it is 285 00:19:52,410 --> 00:19:56,170 Speaker 8: from all of the details. But top down processing uses 286 00:19:56,370 --> 00:19:59,890 Speaker 8: kind of that higher order thinking where you're thinking about 287 00:20:00,170 --> 00:20:03,650 Speaker 8: context and what you've experienced before and what you kind 288 00:20:03,690 --> 00:20:08,650 Speaker 8: of know about the situation to form a judgment. That's 289 00:20:08,690 --> 00:20:10,330 Speaker 8: how we interpret language. 290 00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:16,130 Speaker 2: Our brains, particularly hear language if another person primes us 291 00:20:16,170 --> 00:20:18,810 Speaker 2: by telling us what to listen for. Here's an example 292 00:20:18,850 --> 00:20:22,090 Speaker 2: from Queen's Another one bites the dust played backwards. I'm 293 00:20:22,130 --> 00:20:34,570 Speaker 2: not yet gonna tell you what it is. If you 294 00:20:34,570 --> 00:20:37,410 Speaker 2: didn't know what to listen for, you probably heard gibberish. 295 00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:40,370 Speaker 2: Here it is again. Now listen for the message, it's 296 00:20:40,370 --> 00:20:44,770 Speaker 2: fun to smoke marijuana. It's fun to smoke marijuana. It's 297 00:20:44,770 --> 00:20:45,250 Speaker 2: fun to smoke. 298 00:20:54,130 --> 00:20:57,810 Speaker 8: When someone tells you that a bunch of noise actually 299 00:20:57,890 --> 00:21:00,970 Speaker 8: is saying it's fun to smoke marijuana, you're gonna hear 300 00:21:01,010 --> 00:21:05,410 Speaker 8: it because your brain is using that higher order information 301 00:21:05,610 --> 00:21:08,530 Speaker 8: that has already told you that this is language to 302 00:21:08,890 --> 00:21:10,330 Speaker 8: hear the thing that you're told to hear. 303 00:21:11,010 --> 00:21:13,330 Speaker 2: And an early eighties study in the Journal of Science 304 00:21:13,370 --> 00:21:14,530 Speaker 2: backed up Ashley's point. 305 00:21:14,970 --> 00:21:18,170 Speaker 8: They divided the participants into three groups, and the first 306 00:21:18,170 --> 00:21:20,050 Speaker 8: group was just asked to describe. 307 00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:20,170 Speaker 2: What they heard. 308 00:21:20,370 --> 00:21:21,610 Speaker 8: They weren't told anything else. 309 00:21:22,170 --> 00:21:26,330 Speaker 2: They heard something like this, and. 310 00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:28,650 Speaker 8: Most of those people said they heard things like science 311 00:21:28,650 --> 00:21:33,730 Speaker 8: fiction sounds or animal cries. Researchers played people sin waves speech. 312 00:21:34,170 --> 00:21:38,010 Speaker 8: It's real speech, but it's artificially degraded so that any 313 00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:40,690 Speaker 8: evidence of a message is completely lost, and there are 314 00:21:40,690 --> 00:21:43,330 Speaker 8: only certain frequencies left over. So if you were to 315 00:21:43,370 --> 00:21:46,490 Speaker 8: listen to this without any context, it would just sound 316 00:21:46,530 --> 00:21:49,250 Speaker 8: like noise, which is kind of what backmasking sounds like. 317 00:21:49,650 --> 00:21:51,890 Speaker 8: The second group was told that they would hear an 318 00:21:51,890 --> 00:21:54,690 Speaker 8: actual sentence that was produced by a computer, and they 319 00:21:54,690 --> 00:21:56,970 Speaker 8: were asked to write down what that sentence said. 320 00:21:57,610 --> 00:21:59,970 Speaker 2: Okay, now that you know this is human speech, let's 321 00:21:59,970 --> 00:22:01,650 Speaker 2: hear it again. See if you can pick out any 322 00:22:01,690 --> 00:22:05,090 Speaker 2: words and again. 323 00:22:07,650 --> 00:22:11,410 Speaker 8: And actually most to those people figured out at least 324 00:22:11,410 --> 00:22:14,610 Speaker 8: a few of the words correctly, because again, this sine 325 00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:17,530 Speaker 8: wave speech. It had been real speech before, and it 326 00:22:17,570 --> 00:22:20,210 Speaker 8: was just degraded. As soon as those people knew that 327 00:22:20,290 --> 00:22:23,410 Speaker 8: it was a sentence, they were able to describe what 328 00:22:23,450 --> 00:22:26,450 Speaker 8: some of these words were. And then the third group 329 00:22:26,730 --> 00:22:30,250 Speaker 8: was actually told what the sentence said, and all of 330 00:22:30,290 --> 00:22:31,730 Speaker 8: them said that they could hear it. 331 00:22:32,450 --> 00:22:35,330 Speaker 2: The distorted message you heard earlier said, Mama was kept 332 00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:37,650 Speaker 2: in a cage at the zoo. Now take a listen, 333 00:22:40,290 --> 00:22:41,250 Speaker 2: here's the clean version. 334 00:22:41,650 --> 00:22:43,450 Speaker 1: Mama was kept in a cage at the zoo. 335 00:22:46,170 --> 00:22:48,330 Speaker 2: So it's easier for your brain to hear a message 336 00:22:48,330 --> 00:22:51,450 Speaker 2: if someone else primes it like I just did. So 337 00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:54,290 Speaker 2: if priming is a thing, maybe backwards messages have the 338 00:22:54,330 --> 00:22:57,570 Speaker 2: ability to influence our thinking well. As it turns out, 339 00:22:57,770 --> 00:23:02,370 Speaker 2: accidental and intentional. Backwards messages have no control over our brains. 340 00:23:02,930 --> 00:23:04,290 Speaker 2: People have done studies on this. 341 00:23:04,410 --> 00:23:08,730 Speaker 8: They've actually taken backward audio that is real and played 342 00:23:08,730 --> 00:23:10,890 Speaker 8: it for people, and then they've given them a test 343 00:23:11,090 --> 00:23:15,650 Speaker 8: that should elicit some sort of recognition if a seed 344 00:23:15,770 --> 00:23:18,610 Speaker 8: was planted for a particular word or something that was 345 00:23:18,650 --> 00:23:21,650 Speaker 8: played backward, and it just doesn't work. People who hear 346 00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:24,090 Speaker 8: backward messages have no idea what those things are saying. 347 00:23:24,410 --> 00:23:27,450 Speaker 8: It doesn't communicate any subliminal message to anybody. 348 00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:31,930 Speaker 2: Backwards messages and songs can't hypnotize us into bad behavior, 349 00:23:32,210 --> 00:23:35,130 Speaker 2: but they can make us laugh, like this backmast thought 350 00:23:35,170 --> 00:23:37,810 Speaker 2: on the B fifty two's Detour through Your Mind. 351 00:23:38,170 --> 00:23:42,810 Speaker 8: My Very my sh it's the back. 352 00:23:47,330 --> 00:23:55,490 Speaker 5: Play record backworth, watch out you fight ruin yours needle. 353 00:23:56,810 --> 00:24:00,250 Speaker 2: Backmasking can also be used artistically, like in Missy Elliott's 354 00:24:00,250 --> 00:24:05,490 Speaker 2: work it is it Worth, Let me work it REVERSI 355 00:24:08,530 --> 00:24:14,490 Speaker 2: and here's that same section reversed reverse is your mind? Yes, 356 00:24:14,570 --> 00:24:19,050 Speaker 2: the reverse? Many backwards messages or comments on the Satanic 357 00:24:19,090 --> 00:24:22,450 Speaker 2: panic of the seventies and eighties. Electric Light Orchestra played 358 00:24:22,490 --> 00:24:25,450 Speaker 2: to their evil reputation by adding backmasking to their song 359 00:24:25,650 --> 00:24:28,850 Speaker 2: Fire on High. This was in response to accusations of 360 00:24:28,930 --> 00:24:32,850 Speaker 2: hiding satanic messages in previous releases. Here's that song in reverse. 361 00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:40,330 Speaker 2: The music is reversible, but time. 362 00:24:42,570 --> 00:24:45,730 Speaker 6: Turn back, turn back. 363 00:24:46,930 --> 00:24:47,730 Speaker 8: Turn back. 364 00:24:51,050 --> 00:24:53,410 Speaker 2: You might think the Judas Priest verdict was the reason 365 00:24:53,530 --> 00:24:57,010 Speaker 2: backmasking outrage ended, but actually it was technology. 366 00:24:57,530 --> 00:25:00,450 Speaker 8: The whole satanism scare in backward music kind of died 367 00:25:00,490 --> 00:25:05,290 Speaker 8: down when CDs became more popular because you can't really 368 00:25:05,330 --> 00:25:08,610 Speaker 8: play CDs backwards, so people weren't as worried about it anymore. 369 00:25:09,290 --> 00:25:12,210 Speaker 2: For a couple decades, we didn't hear many backmask messages 370 00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:15,730 Speaker 2: at all, intentional or otherwise. But now it's starting to 371 00:25:15,770 --> 00:25:17,650 Speaker 2: come back thanks to the Internet. 372 00:25:18,170 --> 00:25:20,770 Speaker 8: It's kind of ramping back up now that there's so 373 00:25:20,850 --> 00:25:23,370 Speaker 8: much digital music software where you can actually play things 374 00:25:23,410 --> 00:25:24,050 Speaker 8: backward again. 375 00:25:25,250 --> 00:25:28,010 Speaker 2: More recently, here's a track by twenty one pilots called 376 00:25:28,090 --> 00:25:30,330 Speaker 2: Nico and the Niners, and they put back masking in 377 00:25:30,370 --> 00:25:33,730 Speaker 2: the intro. Here's a snippet of what it sounds like 378 00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:43,210 Speaker 2: when played forward. So sure, and here it is reversed. 379 00:25:44,130 --> 00:25:48,850 Speaker 2: The poetic message says, we are bandidos. You will leave 380 00:25:48,930 --> 00:25:55,770 Speaker 2: Dima and head true East. True We denounce violism, and 381 00:25:58,930 --> 00:26:02,690 Speaker 2: of course with the intentional backmasking comes the unintentional. This 382 00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:05,410 Speaker 2: time it's Lady Gaga praising the devil in the backwards 383 00:26:05,490 --> 00:26:09,450 Speaker 2: version of Paparazzi. The Internet has revealed this message evil 384 00:26:09,530 --> 00:26:12,930 Speaker 2: save us these stars above above. We model it on 385 00:26:12,970 --> 00:26:14,250 Speaker 2: the arts of Lucifer. 386 00:26:27,810 --> 00:26:30,770 Speaker 8: It wouldn't be this big of a deal if music 387 00:26:31,210 --> 00:26:36,050 Speaker 8: wasn't so integral to our culture and the way we 388 00:26:36,170 --> 00:26:39,090 Speaker 8: interact with each other and the way we process our 389 00:26:39,210 --> 00:26:42,970 Speaker 8: feelings and our thoughts about the world. The idea that 390 00:26:43,050 --> 00:26:47,930 Speaker 8: someone is putting in secret messages to hijack the way 391 00:26:47,970 --> 00:26:52,130 Speaker 8: that we interact with our music is so scary because 392 00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:53,730 Speaker 8: it's so important to us. 393 00:26:55,370 --> 00:26:58,330 Speaker 2: The fact, say, the Satanic panic over backmasking was much 394 00:26:58,410 --> 00:27:03,090 Speaker 2: ado about nothing. The devil worshiping messages were unintentional and ineffective. 395 00:27:03,530 --> 00:27:05,130 Speaker 2: I mean, how many people do you know that listen 396 00:27:05,210 --> 00:27:08,010 Speaker 2: to led Zeppelin or Judas priests that now actively worship 397 00:27:08,050 --> 00:27:10,130 Speaker 2: the devil all the time. It was really only the 398 00:27:10,210 --> 00:27:13,690 Speaker 2: rise of CDs that stopped the backmasking outrage. But with 399 00:27:13,770 --> 00:27:15,850 Speaker 2: that in mind, now that I think about it, has 400 00:27:15,890 --> 00:27:19,090 Speaker 2: anyone ever really thoroughly gone through all of the songs 401 00:27:19,090 --> 00:27:21,930 Speaker 2: over the past twenty years of digital music. At least 402 00:27:21,930 --> 00:27:24,450 Speaker 2: a check for backwards messages. We have a lot to 403 00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:27,450 Speaker 2: soar through. Maybe all of the backwards messages we haven't 404 00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:32,530 Speaker 2: found yet have been controlling our every thought and feelings. 405 00:27:34,130 --> 00:27:42,410 Speaker 2: You'd be rare if I did this. Sep twenty thousand. 406 00:27:42,410 --> 00:27:45,050 Speaker 2: Turts is hosted by me Dallas Taylor been produced out 407 00:27:45,090 --> 00:27:47,530 Speaker 2: of the studios of De Facto Sound, a sound design 408 00:27:47,570 --> 00:27:51,130 Speaker 2: team dedicated to making television, film and games sound incredible. 409 00:27:51,370 --> 00:27:55,850 Speaker 2: Find out more at de factosound dot com. This episode 410 00:27:55,930 --> 00:27:58,850 Speaker 2: was written and produced by James in Chercasso and me 411 00:27:59,170 --> 00:28:00,170 Speaker 2: Dallas Taylor. 412 00:28:00,210 --> 00:28:01,850 Speaker 3: With help from Sam Sneably. 413 00:28:02,490 --> 00:28:05,250 Speaker 2: It was sound designed and mixed by Soren Beijan and 414 00:28:05,370 --> 00:28:09,650 Speaker 2: Nick Spradlin. Thanks to Brian Gardner and Ashley Hamer. Ashley 415 00:28:09,770 --> 00:28:12,370 Speaker 2: is the managing editor of Curiosity dot com and the 416 00:28:12,370 --> 00:28:15,690 Speaker 2: co host of the award winning Curiosity Daily podcast, which 417 00:28:15,690 --> 00:28:18,930 Speaker 2: comes out every weekday. She also plays saxophone with the 418 00:28:18,970 --> 00:28:21,850 Speaker 2: band fuzz That's f u Zzz. If you'd like to 419 00:28:21,850 --> 00:28:24,650 Speaker 2: find him on Apple or Spotify. You're actually listening to 420 00:28:24,690 --> 00:28:33,570 Speaker 2: their song Hangtime right now. Finally, I want you to 421 00:28:33,610 --> 00:28:36,490 Speaker 2: go out and find backmasked messages and popular songs and 422 00:28:36,530 --> 00:28:39,210 Speaker 2: send it to me. Find a track, play it backwards 423 00:28:39,210 --> 00:28:41,730 Speaker 2: and tweet what you hear at twenty k org on Twitter. 424 00:28:42,010 --> 00:28:45,450 Speaker 2: If it's funny and relatively clean, I'll retweet it. Let's 425 00:28:45,450 --> 00:28:48,290 Speaker 2: start a panic and so Lyf sing it. 426 00:28:52,250 --> 00:28:52,370 Speaker 6: Am. 427 00:29:00,010 --> 00:29:03,250 Speaker 1: There are plenty more episodes full of human stories and 428 00:29:03,530 --> 00:29:07,970 Speaker 1: lovingly crafted soundscapes, everything from the science of cat and 429 00:29:08,010 --> 00:29:12,730 Speaker 1: dog communication to the history of corporate musicals and how 430 00:29:12,890 --> 00:29:18,170 Speaker 1: Beethoven kept composing even after losing his hearing. Subscribe to 431 00:29:18,290 --> 00:29:21,650 Speaker 1: twenty thousand hertz wherever you get your podcasts.