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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today the Slav of Vemon, one of the

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Speaker 1: co founders of indiego Go and chairman of the new

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Speaker 1: platform Vincent. Slava, good to have you here. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me. Very excited to be here. Okay, explain

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Speaker 1: what Vincent is. Vincent is an aggregator for alternative investments.

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Speaker 1: Alternative investments are growing very rapidly. Alternative investments are anything

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Speaker 1: that are not public equities or bonds, so you could

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Speaker 1: think about it like collectibles, real estate, venture, crypto assets, art.

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Speaker 1: All these things are growing rapidly and there's not really

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Speaker 1: a central place where the individual investor can try to

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Speaker 1: look across all of their options. So that is Vincent

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Speaker 1: one place to start thinking about how to invest into alternatives. Okay,

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Speaker 1: needless just say, we had a Robin hood and his

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Speaker 1: result of that we had volatility in a MC, we

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Speaker 1: had volatility in game stop. Is this an arena where

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Speaker 1: the average persian should be playing? Absolutely so um. For

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Speaker 1: the longest time, people felt that only the rich, the

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Speaker 1: accredited investors, the family offices, the institutions were able to

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Speaker 1: have access to these alternative investments and they've known that

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Speaker 1: being able to have a small portion of your portfolio

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Speaker 1: across some of these riskier assets gave them higher returns overall.

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Speaker 1: So today you see about five percent of portfolios across

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Speaker 1: investors in these alternatives, and too many people don't have

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Speaker 1: anything in alternatives. And I really do believe that the

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Speaker 1: average person should have somewhere between five to fiftent in alternatives.

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't at the farm on it. You should him

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Speaker 1: put all of your savings in it, but a small

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Speaker 1: portion of higher risk, prior return assets could give you

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Speaker 1: a much better return overall. Okay, most people are financially unsophisticated.

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Speaker 1: Those with some assets might have a financial advisor who

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Speaker 1: would balance their portfolio, as you're saying, But well, you

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Speaker 1: find certainly on robin Hood that it's a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who are relatively young with some extra cash and

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Speaker 1: this might be their only investment. They might have an

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Speaker 1: eye row. What do you say to those people? So

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Speaker 1: it's really just a function of a percentage of how

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Speaker 1: much you have. So if you have ten million, you

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Speaker 1: should put you know, let's call it a million dollars

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Speaker 1: ten percent into alternatives. If you have a thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: you should think about putting a hundred dollars into alternatives.

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Speaker 1: It's really about putting that five to ten percent into alternatives. Now,

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Speaker 1: the question that asks, how do I only put you know,

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars five five thousand dollars into alternatives. That's the

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Speaker 1: beauty of what's happening in the last decade. Since about

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Speaker 1: you've seen the dawn of all these alternative investment platforms

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Speaker 1: across these individual asset classes. You have real estate platforms,

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Speaker 1: you have venture platforms, you have art platforms, you have

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Speaker 1: collectible platform and when I say collectibles, i'm talking about whine,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about cars, I'm talking about trading cards. You

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Speaker 1: have crypto platforms, and they're all offering these fractional ownership

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Speaker 1: where you can get a piece of the asset. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to spend the entire seven million dollars on

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Speaker 1: a mon a. Maybe you can spend two thousand five

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Speaker 1: dollars to get a piece. You don't need to spend

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Speaker 1: the entire four thousand dollars for some Will Chamberling card.

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Speaker 1: You can buy a ten dollar piece. And that's the

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Speaker 1: beauty of what's happening across all of these alternative investments,

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Speaker 1: and it's becoming much more approachable for the everyday investor.

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Speaker 1: Whether you have ten thousand dollars of extra uh income

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Speaker 1: to uh sorry, ten thousand dollars of worth that you

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Speaker 1: can deploy, or if you have uh, you know, five million. Really,

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Speaker 1: you just can prioritize it accordingly as to how you

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Speaker 1: would diversify. Okay, let's assume I am interested. How do

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Speaker 1: I decide what to invest in? Am I purely you know,

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Speaker 1: flying blind doing my own research? Are there any primmers,

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Speaker 1: anything that could help me out? Yeah? So? Um right now.

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Speaker 1: The two places where you can really start as the

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Speaker 1: investor to think about your alternative investment options is either

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Speaker 1: you ask your buddy, you know, Sally or Sam that

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Speaker 1: you talk to at work or on zoom or at

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Speaker 1: the golf course, and you know that person is gonna

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Speaker 1: be limited by what they know and what they have

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Speaker 1: access to. Or you go onto Google and you try

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Speaker 1: to do your research, which the research is complicated because

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Speaker 1: most of the research and most of the information is

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Speaker 1: coming often from the people trying to sell you the

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Speaker 1: actual product. So it's hard to find objective information to

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Speaker 1: try to research and diligence across all of your options,

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Speaker 1: and that's exactly what Vincent the platform which we launched

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Speaker 1: five months ago with Vincent dot Com is to be

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Speaker 1: able to start your journey on alternatives with Vincent, which

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Speaker 1: is this is where you discover your options. This is

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Speaker 1: where you do your diligence. This is where you can

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Speaker 1: compare and contrast, and then you click through to the

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Speaker 1: deals that you like and move forward. Okay, if one

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Speaker 1: examines the site, there's certainly hundreds of alternatives available. How

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Speaker 1: much information is there is? How does someone uh digested

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Speaker 1: information to help them make a choice. Yeah, so, uh,

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Speaker 1: there are dozens of different types of alternatives. We've grouped

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Speaker 1: it into a simple taxonomy of six different options. High level, So,

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Speaker 1: do you want a debt alternative? Do you want a

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Speaker 1: real estate alternative? Do you want to venture which is

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Speaker 1: like you know, equity or venture fund, et cetera. Do

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Speaker 1: you want art, do you want crypto or do you

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Speaker 1: want collectibles? Everything will fall into the one of those

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Speaker 1: six categories. Inside of that, you can then refine your

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Speaker 1: filter in terms of how much you're trying to spend,

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Speaker 1: what kind of returns you're looking for, and then we

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Speaker 1: help you to try to navigate compare and contrast. Now,

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Speaker 1: a real estate investment will have some similarities to a

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Speaker 1: trading card investment, but there will also be differences, which

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Speaker 1: is part of the challenges of navigating across assets. But

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Speaker 1: it's also the beauty of the product that we've tried

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Speaker 1: to create that simplicity for the comparison. Just to give

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Speaker 1: you a really interesting stat like I mentioned, we've been

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Speaker 1: around now for five months. Um, we have over sixty

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Speaker 1: platforms already signed up on the supply sidelight light. Wait wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: just define what those platforms are pleased. So a platform

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Speaker 1: is one of those originators. An originator is an organization

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Speaker 1: that is SEC approved and they are approved to be

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Speaker 1: able to source deals. Uh in that vertical on behalf

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Speaker 1: of the potential investors that would invest into that. So

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Speaker 1: let's be specific. Uh, there's a platform called Collectible which

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Speaker 1: focuses on trading cards. Their SEC approved to be able

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Speaker 1: to get let's call it a Will Chamberlain card or

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Speaker 1: yesterday I invested in the Sandy Kofax card. They were

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Speaker 1: able to get that card. They originated, they sourced that deal,

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Speaker 1: They originated that offering, and Sandy Ko Fox what I

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Speaker 1: think was selling. It's a p s A nine. P

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Speaker 1: S A is a grading in the in the card industry,

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Speaker 1: it's p S A nine. I think there's like thirty

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Speaker 1: six of them in the world that are known. I

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Speaker 1: think there's three p s A tens. So this was

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Speaker 1: a p s A nine selling for about four fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So if somebody is rich enough on the car,

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Speaker 1: you know, listening, they could just try to go buy

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. But um, what this platform is doing

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Speaker 1: is making it more accessible by selling the shares at

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Speaker 1: ten dollars apiece. And that is an originator. So Collectible

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Speaker 1: is just one example of an originator. So the originator

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Speaker 1: establishes the price of four hundred and fifty thousand, Theoretically,

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Speaker 1: could I invest my ten dollars And since there's so

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Speaker 1: much to mend, the originator might say, well, now the

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Speaker 1: value was six. No, it's just like an I P O.

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Speaker 1: So when the I p O happens, that's it. It's happened,

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Speaker 1: and then it goes into a secondary market. So when

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Speaker 1: the IPO happens, that's the primary issuance. So the primary

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Speaker 1: issuance is the first price that it goes to market with,

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of like the I p O of

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Speaker 1: this offering. Um so, Uh, Sandy ko Fax went for

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Speaker 1: about four thousand dollars. I bought my shares. You know,

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Speaker 1: I put in a thousand dollars. And you know, next

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Speaker 1: week or next month, somebody might want to buy my

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Speaker 1: shares for twelve dollars or they might only be worth

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Speaker 1: eight dollars. And so I'll probably hold because I believe

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Speaker 1: Sandy Kofax can be worth a lot in the future.

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Speaker 1: Um So I'll get to decide if I want to

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Speaker 1: sell for twelve dollars for and get a profit on

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Speaker 1: my ten dollar shares or fall hold. And that's just

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Speaker 1: in the collectible space. You you you mentioned a couple

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Speaker 1: of things and we have Let's say I'm investing. Does

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Speaker 1: Vincent charge me to invest? So? Vincent does not charge

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Speaker 1: the investor anything. We are on the side of the investor.

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Speaker 1: We're helping them to discover in diligence. Uh, and we're

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Speaker 1: just leading you to all of your options. We do

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Speaker 1: not charge the investor anything, totally free. Okay, So then

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Speaker 1: how does Vincent get paid? So Vincent is working with

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Speaker 1: the originators to help them to be able to get

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Speaker 1: more investors. So We're really like Google, which is a

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Speaker 1: search engine trying to you know, get more qualified leads,

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Speaker 1: uh to our originators. Okay, so let's say sorry, you

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Speaker 1: could just think of us as just a very vertical

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Speaker 1: specific search engine like Google, but specifically for alternative investments. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now Google, Uh, they with ad Sense, depending on what

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Speaker 1: you're at, isn't bidding, you might pay more or less.

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Speaker 1: So with Vincent, is every originated product a different deal

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Speaker 1: or is there a straight deal or it's different every

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Speaker 1: uh company has a certain percentage that you charge them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so all the um right now on Vincent, we don't

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Speaker 1: actually have a paid promotion product like ad Sense. So

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Speaker 1: when you search on Google for you know, hotels in Camcoon,

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Speaker 1: there's a few people that are paying for those positions,

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Speaker 1: and there's a few people, a few companies that are

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Speaker 1: getting those positions organically because they deserve those top positions.

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Speaker 1: Right now, we only have organic results. No one is

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Speaker 1: able to pay to get better results. In front of

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Speaker 1: the investor on Vincent, we're only five months old. Would

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Speaker 1: you anticipate you might charge for that visibility? Uh? That

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Speaker 1: very well might happen. Um, you know already our originators

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Speaker 1: are asking us to get more visibility and more exposure

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Speaker 1: and trying to pay us for that opportunity. But we're

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Speaker 1: also trying to make sure we're serving the investor as

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Speaker 1: well as possible in terms of having a trusted experience

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Speaker 1: while trying to have, you know, a business that can

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Speaker 1: be anniable into the future. Okay, so the Sandy kofax card,

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Speaker 1: the originator. How much do you are you charging the

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Speaker 1: originator when someone buys on your platform? Well, they don't

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Speaker 1: buy on my platform, right, We hand off the investor

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Speaker 1: to their platform, so we don't charge anybody anything, meeting

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Speaker 1: any investor anything. What the platforms charge is their different

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Speaker 1: fee schedules. And one of the beautiful things that Vincent

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Speaker 1: is able to do is transparently compare and contrast those

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Speaker 1: fee schedules. Because sometimes it's a little opaque because not

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Speaker 1: all companies charge the exact same way, so it's a

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Speaker 1: little hard to compare. We try to surface that to

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Speaker 1: the front so the investor can understand what they're getting

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Speaker 1: into a little bit better. Okay, what might be the

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Speaker 1: options of charging the ultimate investor? Um? I mean it

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Speaker 1: gets a little complicated. I mean the originators decide their

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Speaker 1: own way. Sometimes they'll just mark up the asset. So

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Speaker 1: the asset might be worth let's call it a hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars, but they'll sell it for a hundred and

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Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars, So they automatically made a ten percent

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Speaker 1: big without you really knowing it, even though you know

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Speaker 1: it's built into the price. Sometimes they'll tell you, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're only charging a hundred thousand dollars, but we're going

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Speaker 1: to charge you five percent to do the transaction. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's all just baked in. UM. They might offer

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Speaker 1: for free, meaning at price at market for the hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars, because then they want to make money on

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Speaker 1: the secondary trades where you're trading from ten dollars to

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Speaker 1: eight dollars or from ten dollars to twelve dollars in

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Speaker 1: that secondary market. Maybe they want to be able to

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Speaker 1: charge you uh some money on each of those secondary trades.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of different ways. Uh. Maybe they

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Speaker 1: want to get you into subscription product. Maybe they want

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Speaker 1: to get you into an a u M product a

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Speaker 1: U M A little bit tower. What is a subscription

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Speaker 1: and what is an a UM Well subscription would mean

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Speaker 1: Maybe they want to get you into a more premier

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Speaker 1: UM access of the way you work with their platform.

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Speaker 1: So they charge you, you know, ten dollars a month

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Speaker 1: or a hundred dollars a month or a thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a month to be able to get special privileges or

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Speaker 1: deal flow or access or data UM, while others might

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Speaker 1: be trying to get you into an a u M

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Speaker 1: product means assets under management, so they're trying to offer

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Speaker 1: you a professional fund UM where instead of you picking

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Speaker 1: specific stocks and I say that as a metaphor meaning

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Speaker 1: individual assets, you might just say I want to deploy

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Speaker 1: money into this UH platform and just let them put

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Speaker 1: all of their various UH individual assets into that fund,

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Speaker 1: and I just want to invest into the fund. So

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Speaker 1: all these origination platforms which I mentioned we have well

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Speaker 1: over fifty already. They all have their own business models,

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Speaker 1: they have their own monetization models, They focus on their

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Speaker 1: own verticals in terms of the assets they focus on.

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Speaker 1: This is all very confusing. UM. Often, if you're just

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Speaker 1: trying to navigate from the perspective of I have an

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Speaker 1: extra ten thousand dollars, what should I do with it?

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Speaker 1: It's daunting if you're just thinking I have ten thousand dollars?

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Speaker 1: What should I do with it? It's hard to know

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Speaker 1: where to start because if you start in any one

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Speaker 1: of those platforms, you right away go down the tunnel

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Speaker 1: with that specific asset, with that specific platform. While with Vincent,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to give you a very top down view

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Speaker 1: across the entire industry of all the assets, UH, and

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Speaker 1: try to give you a compare and contrast across all

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Speaker 1: the platforms within an asset, or compare across assets. Um So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the idea is to start your alternative journey with Vincent. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you provide the lead so to speak. How does

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Speaker 1: Vincent get paid presently? Um? So, we haven't been focusing

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Speaker 1: very much on monetization since we're so young, but presently

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Speaker 1: what's happening is platforms are partnering with us UH and

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Speaker 1: then UH paying us on a per lead per lead. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So let's just assume I buy my piece of the

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Speaker 1: sandy Ko fax card. Let's just say the value is

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Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars to make and numbers easier to comprehend.

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Speaker 1: What happens if they only sell fifty thousand dollars to investors? So? Um,

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Speaker 1: the originator each originator has their own approach to that.

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Speaker 1: But usually what they're doing is they're underwriting the card,

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Speaker 1: so they've already kind of bought the entire card, so

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Speaker 1: they already owned the entire card. So anybody who's buying

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Speaker 1: a piece doesn't have to worry about whether or not

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Speaker 1: the entire card is sold, because as long as they

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Speaker 1: have their piece, that's fine. Often they are trying to

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Speaker 1: sell a specific amount for simplicity sake, let's say fifty.

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Speaker 1: So let's say they're trying to sell fifty of sandy kofax. Uh.

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Speaker 1: If they're only selling so far, that doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: they have to wait for the other ten percent to

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Speaker 1: be sold, because the card is already in their ownership.

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Speaker 1: They already custody the card, right, So it's not as

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Speaker 1: if you have to try to get that full number

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Speaker 1: to try to own the card, because the originator is

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Speaker 1: often already owning it, so they're underrated that. But often

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Speaker 1: you are getting to the full amount met, sometimes within minutes,

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Speaker 1: sometimes within hours, sometimes within days or weeks. Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: use the continuing example of Sandy ko fax. You have

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Speaker 1: x amount of sandy co fax. To what degree is

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Speaker 1: that liquid and who's to be supervises the sales, what

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Speaker 1: would be the exchange so um, right now, the way

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Speaker 1: it works is there's a number of different originators. UM.

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Speaker 1: The examples that we're talking about with Sandy co Fax

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Speaker 1: would be a collectibles originator. In the collectible space, There's

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Speaker 1: a company called Otis. There's a company called Rally, There's

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Speaker 1: a company called Collectible. UM. There's others which you can

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Speaker 1: get into n f t s which are like digital collectibles. UM.

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Speaker 1: And what will happen is often where you are originating

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Speaker 1: the deal, where you're purchasing originally, is where you will

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Speaker 1: be doing your secondary trading. So uh, they will allow

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Speaker 1: for the matching process between supply and demand. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about Sandy Kofax again. So often there's a lock up

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Speaker 1: period where let's say the deal closed today. UH, and

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Speaker 1: let's say you want to sell tomorrow your shares. Usually

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Speaker 1: that's not allowed. Usually they will lock up for thirty days,

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Speaker 1: sixty days, ninety days, maybe a year, uh to allow

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Speaker 1: for things to settle in and then the secondary trading

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Speaker 1: will be allowed. So let's say, for example, let's say

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Speaker 1: ninety days, so after nine d days I will be

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Speaker 1: able to uh, you know, enter the markets of secondary trading,

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Speaker 1: and I can set my price and say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm willing to sell my ten dollar shares that I

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Speaker 1: bought UH for twenty and I can list that on

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Speaker 1: a secondary market, the one often that I bought it on. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's not as fluid as robin Hood because robin Hood

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Speaker 1: is massively liquid. There's so many people that are buying

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Speaker 1: and so many people that are selling on both sides,

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Speaker 1: and the public markets have huge infrastructure that's been built

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Speaker 1: out by things called market makers and others that really

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Speaker 1: make the the trades happen so fast because they're able

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Speaker 1: to match what people want versus what people are trying

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Speaker 1: to sell for. The bid in the ASP are the terms.

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Speaker 1: But in these new spaces, in these alternative markets, it's

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Speaker 1: not quite as liquid yet. So sometimes you don't match

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Speaker 1: immediately or within even an hour or even a day.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it might take days or weeks to find that match,

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Speaker 1: or it can be instantaneous, depending on how the market

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Speaker 1: works out. So if I'm looking for twenty dollars, but

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Speaker 1: the other folks are coming in saying, you know what,

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Speaker 1: you just bought this for ten dollars three months ago,

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Speaker 1: but I will buy for twelve right now, or I

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Speaker 1: will buy for fourteen, but you know I'm sticking out

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Speaker 1: for for twenty. Uh, you're just gonna I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: have to wait because my match didn't come through. Now

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Speaker 1: somebody else, uh living in you know, for the fun

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Speaker 1: of it. Let's say in Alabama they are ready to

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Speaker 1: sell quicker, their Sandy kofax, and they're just looking for

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Speaker 1: thirteen dollars. So if they were saying I want to

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Speaker 1: sell for thirteen and somebody came in saying I want

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Speaker 1: to buy up the fourteen, that match will happen. But

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Speaker 1: because I was waiting for a twenty, my match didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yes? Of course. Is it a

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Speaker 1: transparent Let's just assume your example blooded at ten want

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Speaker 1: to sell it at twenty. Is there an exchange so

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Speaker 1: that while I'm asleep, the transaction will happen if someone

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Speaker 1: bids twenty. Yes. Um, I wouldn't use the word exchange.

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Speaker 1: That's a little bit of a technical word. Usually exchange

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Speaker 1: does mean a more sophisticated, um quick transaction. Really what

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Speaker 1: these are called our billboards billboard secondary because it's almost

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Speaker 1: like you're posting something on like in the old old

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Speaker 1: style newspapers classified, where you know, some people will say

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Speaker 1: I'm looking to sell my Sandy ko fax for twenty,

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Speaker 1: and somebody else is saying I'm looking to buy Sandy

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Speaker 1: kofax is for four. Team. It's almost like somebody will

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Speaker 1: manually be reading the classified and say, oh, I think

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Speaker 1: these two people should talk to each other. And that's

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Speaker 1: actually just happening a little bit more fluidly on these

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Speaker 1: on these platforms right now. Uh It's not as sophisticated

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Speaker 1: as robin Hood or as exchanges like the New York

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Speaker 1: Stock Exchange or or the NAZDAC, but it's way more

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Speaker 1: efficient and way more fluid than the newspaper classified example

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Speaker 1: I gave. Okay, so let's say, using your example BOARDED

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Speaker 1: ten want to sell it twenty. I'm on the bulletin board.

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Speaker 1: Can someone say I want to buy a twenty and

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Speaker 1: the trans hack transaction happen without your interactions since they

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Speaker 1: met the price. Well, yes, to be clear, the only

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Speaker 1: way that uh me being willing to sell its point

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Speaker 1: he could be on the Bolton board is if I

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Speaker 1: already confirmed and approved that. So I can't have that

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Speaker 1: beyond the Bolton board unless I already proved it once

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Speaker 1: I approved of it. If that other side of the

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Speaker 1: transaction comes through, it will happen automatically. So you don't

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Speaker 1: have to ask me again, do you really want to

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Speaker 1: sell at twenty because I already said I want to

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Speaker 1: sell at twenty. So no, there's not like a double confirm. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you have to confirm the first time before you can

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Speaker 1: even put that. Okay, let's just assume you bought it

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Speaker 1: at ten, you're watching the market closely, and you're emotional.

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Speaker 1: You don't know what you want to sell it at.

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Speaker 1: How does that work? I mean, these are not um

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Speaker 1: to be clear, these markets are not changing on these

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Speaker 1: bulletin boards by the minute. Often these bulletin boards for

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Speaker 1: the sake of getting liquidity, and what I mean by

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Speaker 1: liquidity getting as many people on both sides of the market,

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Speaker 1: uh to be at the same place at the same time.

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Speaker 1: They often don't do it NonStop. They'll create like almost

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Speaker 1: like trading hours or a trading day where where they

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Speaker 1: will say, okay, get your thoughts in what do you

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Speaker 1: want to buy out or what do you want to

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Speaker 1: sell at? Here are all the things you can buy

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Speaker 1: or sell. Get your thoughts in because you know on

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Speaker 1: April a month from now or a week from now

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Speaker 1: or tomorrow is when all the trades are gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: And then those trades happen and then uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes they'll wait another week or another month before they

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Speaker 1: do trading again. Now, the reason it's taking so much time,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to on robin Hood things that happened within

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Speaker 1: a millisecond or you know, so many it's because the

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Speaker 1: lack of liquid These are smaller markets that are historically

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Speaker 1: very private and they're not as large, so it's gonna

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Speaker 1: take time for it to become as transactional as liquid

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Speaker 1: as you know robin Hood in New York Stock Exchange,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. But my personal opinion why we built Vincent

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Speaker 1: is I do believe by the end of this decade,

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Speaker 1: you are going to get that transparency, you are going

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Speaker 1: to get that liquidity, and the alternative markets are gonna

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Speaker 1: be very exciting. Uh they're exciting today, but it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be that much closer to the infrastructure as how the

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Speaker 1: public markets work. Okay, so theoretically I could invest ten

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars and a month later I need the money

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Speaker 1: for rent. I may not be able to raise that

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Speaker 1: money immediately. You might not be able to access that

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00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: liquidity immediately. That's correct. So alternative investments um. One of

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00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: the challenges with them historically is what makes them alternative

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00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: usually is the lack of immediate liquidity. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you buy real estate, uh, you know,

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00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: you try to get a nice home in a in

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Speaker 1: Austin because Austin is really popping and you feel like

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00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: being in the suburbs of Austin could be a nice investment.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's hard for you to just snap your

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Speaker 1: fingers and get that money out. Now again, you know

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Speaker 1: how much demand is there for Austin real estate, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, real estate is an asset class on

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Speaker 1: Vincent right, it's not just trading cards. You can get

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Speaker 1: real estate. You know. The more liquidity again liquidity is people.

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00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 1: The more people that are circling around Austin looking to

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Speaker 1: buy and sell, the more likelihood that you'll be able

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Speaker 1: to get in and out faster. Now, if you're trying

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Speaker 1: to buy a second home in the suburbs of Anchorage,

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing that you're gonna have a hard time selling

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Speaker 1: in the mentor of the middle of winter in Anchorage. Nevertheless,

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Speaker 1: any time, because I'm not sure how much liquidity. Look,

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Speaker 1: you know, the suburbs of Anchourage have So that's another

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Speaker 1: example of where is liquidity? Where are the people lining up?

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Speaker 1: In terms of buying and selling um and alternative investments.

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00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: Historically you've had to be able to, you know, be

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Speaker 1: willing to tie up your money for a little bit

429
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 1: of time, whether it's a week, a month, a year,

430
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: or longer, uh to be able to get some of

431
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: that higher return. Often with the liquidity comes a lower return.

432
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: There's a premium for having your money locked up. The

433
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: beauty of where alternam investments are headed is that there's

434
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: all this infrastructure being built out, like exactly we just

435
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: talked about with Sandy Kofas is over time, these things

436
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: that were historically either you buy it for a hundred

437
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: for half a million dollars and hopefully you find the

438
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: buyer to buy it for six hundred dollars six dollars

439
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: a year later. You know that's really hard. But now

440
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: you're chopping it up into those pieces ten dollars apiece.

441
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: You add a lot more people that are able to

442
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: trade in and out. You're starting to create more liquidity.

443
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: You go from bolton board to exchange and now all

444
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you're taking things are historically super difficult

445
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: and super locked up the things that can become highly

446
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: liquid and quick to access your money. So that's one

447
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: of the beauties of where these alternative investments are getting

448
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: are going. Okay, let's just as sue myself. How am

449
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: I charged? And how much am I charged? Again? Every

450
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: one of these platforms has a different model. Obviously with

451
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: robin Hood, you know, with um with day trading, you

452
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: had child shwab or e trade used to charge you

453
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: nine dollars of trade and then robin Hood told you

454
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 1: it was free and then we learned their free head

455
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: another business model, right, So they all have their own

456
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: business models. So I don't want to come across as

457
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 1: all knowing because they all have different business models. But

458
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: typically they're either going to charge you for the trade

459
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: let's call it ten bucks. They're going to charge you

460
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: a percentage of the transaction let's call it, you know,

461
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: three five percent, or they'll charge you in some other fashion,

462
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: whether again it's a subscription, or they'll add a little

463
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: bit of a spread without you even knowing, which is

464
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the person is willing uh to uh.

465
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: You're willing to sell your shares for uh for thirteen,

466
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: the person is willing to buy them for fourteen. Um,

467
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: all you need to know is you were willing to

468
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: sell them for thirteen, but the fact that they charge

469
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: the other person fourteen, it took the dollar. You don't

470
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: know the better, you know what I mean? So all

471
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: all these all these platforms have their own business models

472
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: and it's not um, you know, a single, single approach,

473
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: which is also the opportunity for a platform like Vincent

474
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: to again try to surface those differences, try to create

475
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: that compare and contrast, because you know, data and transparency

476
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: is what's going to create more uh investors that trust alternatives,

477
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: which is just going to create more liquidity. It's gonna

478
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: be better for everybody. Okay, let's assume I invest or,

479
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: I go through Vincent. There's enough information there for me

480
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: to know how I will be charged when I sell. Yeah,

481
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: so we do surface as much information as we can.

482
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: We're constantly improving and I never want to say that

483
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: our five month old product is perfect. So if any

484
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: users on this podcast, you know, feel like there's anything

485
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: that could be improved, we always want to hear it, okay,

486
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 1: but also getting it straight that you could have the

487
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: originator and you and they could supervise trade or theoretically

488
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: it could also be the originator and other platforms simultaneously

489
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: that you might be able to trade your product on correct. Okay,

490
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: we were talking about the verticals. You talked about collectibles,

491
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: tell us about some of the others. Sure, so there's

492
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: real estate, like we mentioned, so, um, you know, real

493
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: estate is one of the oldest, if not the oldest,

494
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: alternative investment. Uh. The idea of you know, you have

495
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,479
Speaker 1: your primary residence, that's not an alternative investment, that's your

496
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: primary residence. But outside of your primary residence, there's a

497
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: lot of people that say, you know what, you know,

498
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: if you have some money, you should put it in

499
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: real estate because real estate is a limited asset that

500
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: goes up in price over time. And instead of holding

501
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: out to cash, because cash over time with inflation, will

502
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: devalue itself. Uh, if you put it into real estate,

503
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: real estate often will stay in touch in line with inflation.

504
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: So a minimum, you'll be able to get the appreciation

505
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: of that in your asset, and depending on the market,

506
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: you might get further appreciation because of demand for your home,

507
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: for that home or for that market. Okay, just to

508
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: stay with real estate practically, if I want to invest

509
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: in real estate today, then I literally investing in one

510
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: building or do is it tend to be a group

511
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 1: of buildings both? So on Vincent you can look at

512
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: specific buildings. It could be Uh, there's residential buildings, there's

513
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: commercial build things, there's commercial offices. Uh, there's all kinds

514
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: of office, there's all types of building types. Um. And

515
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: that that's where I would call stop picking. I mean,

516
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,719
Speaker 1: it's not a stock, but it's just a metaphor. It's

517
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: just you know, you're doing the picking. Uh. There's also

518
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: fun products where again, instead of you having to do

519
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: all the diligence and research yourself as to whether this

520
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: one specific deal is the right deal, you just know

521
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: that you want to get some exposure to some real estate.

522
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: You want to be able to take ten grands or

523
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars or you know, two hundred fifty dollars,

524
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: and you want to be able to get that real

525
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: estate exposure. There are fund products, and different platforms offer

526
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: different fund products. Some platforms offer only one fund product,

527
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: some will offer several fund products and some don't offer

528
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: any and you can choose. You can choose that as

529
00:29:53,440 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: a filter on vincent okay, in this nascent market, because

530
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: there have been any stories of an originator either going

531
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: dark without telling anybody or walking away with the asset

532
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: um the short answers, I don't think so. I think

533
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: the slightly longer answer to your question, because the question

534
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: you specifically asked would mean that the originator was being

535
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: completely completely negligible and negative, uh, you know, trying to

536
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: defraud the investor. Now, has there been some defaults where

537
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: the originator genuinely tried to, you know, find an asset

538
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: that would be paying let's call it rent, or that

539
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: would be able to you know, have a nice yield

540
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: of eight or ten percent or fifteen pent and for

541
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: some reason the underlying uh assumptions didn't work out because

542
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: the tenants weren't able to pay, or because of some

543
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: default of something of that sort. That definitely has happened

544
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: in the industry. I think it happened a little bit

545
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: more during the COVID crisis, right when it all popped

546
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: in you know, March, April, May June. But in general,

547
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: the percentages of any of those types of defaults are

548
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: very limited compared to the overall market. Okay, some other verticals,

549
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: so art art is a vertical, so literally you know, uh,

550
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: like I mentioned buying a Picasso, buying a Warhol. Um.

551
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: You know, there's a cool platform called Masterworks, uh that

552
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: you could check out there. Another one is digital, so

553
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: crypto and digital assets. Okay, let's say that, because that's

554
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: a deeper thing. Before that, what about uh fun fun

555
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: funds that are essentially startups. You're investing in a startup?

556
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: Tell us about that? Sure, so we call that venture.

557
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: So inside adventure, there's you can invest into companies, individual

558
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: companies and get equity from these small companies. Um. You

559
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: could also invest into funds that invest into companies. Um.

560
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: And there's other types of funds that are available. So um.

561
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: You know. Equity crowdfunding is really kind of the origin

562
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: of a lot of this, the jobs that got passed.

563
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: I was a part of that with the Obama administration

564
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: and in seen it all went live. You know, you

565
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: actually just saw the increase for equity crowdfunding. There was

566
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: one million. Many people are not familiar with this. Explain

567
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: on a ground level, you know how what this actually

568
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: means yeah, so, I mean basically, as part of the

569
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: Securities Act nineteen thirty three, you create the sec and

570
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: as part of that, there's this concept of an accredited

571
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: investor that was created, which means that uh an investor

572
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: had to meet some threshold of of intelligence or sophistication,

573
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: which was determined by your salary or your net worth.

574
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: Uh So, uh if if you didn't have so, if

575
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: you didn't have simply about a quarter million dollar salary

576
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: or a million dollars in net worth, you're considered unaccredited.

577
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: And if you're unaccredited, and the only way that you

578
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: were allowed to participate in these investments if they were

579
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: publicly solicited. The only investments that you could publicly solicit

580
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: are things that are listed on the stock market, so

581
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: on the you know, on the Nazadac or on the

582
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: New York's Doctric chains, et cetera. Things that were private

583
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: listings were left for just the accredited folks. Um that

584
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: all changed as part of the Jobs Act, saying that

585
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: you know what, these folks that don't make that much

586
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: money or don't don't have that much network really should

587
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: be allowed to participate, but let's limit their exposure. So

588
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: what they decided was on the company side they can

589
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: only raise up to one million dollars and on the

590
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: investors side they can only invest up to ten thousand dollars.

591
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: Those limits got raised a few weeks ago actually, from

592
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: one million to five million, so that when when live

593
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: in sten got increased five years later UH to a

594
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: five million dollar cap, which is a huge game changer actually,

595
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: So now companies can raise up to five million dollars

596
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: from what I would call the crowd the masses, from

597
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: anybody accredited or unaccredited UM, which is super exciting. And

598
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: we have many platforms including Republic or we funder or

599
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: others that are originators again on these types of deals

600
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: and the deals that they focus on, are these venture

601
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: UH funded companies. UM. Yeah, okay, So if I'm not accredited,

602
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: how much can I invest? UM? I believe it's up

603
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: to H I believe it's ten grand or up to

604
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: ten percent of your income, whichever is greater. And who's

605
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: checking this it's right now. It's a great question. Right now.

606
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: It's self accreditation. UM. So it's kind of like when

607
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 1: you go on the websites and say that you're UM

608
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: old enough to look at cigarette ads or you know,

609
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: cigarette companies or alcohol companies, so you have to be

610
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: honest and you know it's self accreditation and self reporting. Okay,

611
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: now going to the topic you mentioned, Let's start on

612
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: the back end, and if I mean, start on the

613
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: front end the n f T s and then get

614
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: into cryptocurrency. Please explain what an n f T is. So,

615
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: n f T is a non fungible token. UM. I

616
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: guess for those that just saw Saturay Night Live, they

617
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: just try to take their hack at explaining it. So

618
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: all that it means it's a unique asset and it's

619
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: specifically been tokenized, which just means that it's been digitally

620
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: stamped that you can prove that this is what it is,

621
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: uh and without doubt. And that's all on the blockchain.

622
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: Let's ignore what that means on the blockchain. It's kind

623
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: of like saying it's a website on the Internet. Let's

624
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: just understand the blockchain is tech whatever, UM and n

625
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: f T is just way of saying that this is

626
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: unique and it is what it says it is and

627
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: there is no doubt about that. You know, we have

628
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: similar concepts without using fancy words like n f T

629
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: S even when we talk about like our house or

630
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: our fingerprints. You know, your fingerprint is different than my fingerprint, um,

631
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: and we could just call uh, you know, it is

632
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: unique and it is truly yours and the technology that

633
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: yours is on is on skin, so it is what

634
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: it is, that's your fingerprint. If anybody wants to prove

635
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: that was you, they would have to prove that that

636
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: match the exact fingerprint of what you have. And uh.

637
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: Similar for me, I have a unique fingerprint that's uniquely me.

638
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: Uh and you know ours are difference and you know

639
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: they might look similar at some level, but there is

640
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: at the fundamental level there's something that's different about it

641
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: and it could be proven um and yeah, so n

642
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: f t s are then created. So that's a non

643
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: fundible token and it's just you know, applied against all

644
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: these various things right now and people are using it

645
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: towards artum. But you can really just think about of

646
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: anything that you can prove that it is uniquely what

647
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 1: it says it is, and uh, usually it is scarce.

648
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: That's what makes the the non fungible tokens. It can't

649
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: be like replaced if you take one piece of gold

650
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: and another piece of gold and you trade them where

651
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: you put them in two different hands, and you you know,

652
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 1: you mix them around, you say which one was which.

653
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter, right because gold is gold is gold.

654
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: As long as it's the same caliber of gold, they

655
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: would be fungible, exactly exactly. But if you take you know,

656
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: my fingerprinting, your fingerprint or me or you, I mean,

657
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: I know we looked similar, but somebody says, who's who?

658
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: I mean, there's only one of me and only one

659
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: of you. Um, And that's what makes it a non

660
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: fungible token. Okay, Now all the excitement, sorry, sorry, So

661
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: it's non fungible, and the token portion just means it's

662
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: it's a technical jargon that it's on the blockchain and

663
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 1: it's tokenized, which and recently there has been a lot

664
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: of the ink, a lot of excitement and also a

665
00:37:52,200 --> 00:38:00,280
Speaker 1: lot of sales about tokenization of certain items which would

666
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: be rapidly and endlessly reproduced in the marketplace. There are

667
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: sports clips, there is digital art. So let's start from

668
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: the beginning. And n f T could represent something physical

669
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: and something not physical, correct, I mean, officially, the fact

670
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: that it's token ized UM means that it's on a

671
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: digital blockchain. But it could represent something that's physical, yes,

672
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: but it would be the digital token. Um really is digital, right,

673
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: So let's just say in the case of you know, selling,

674
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: let's start with a sports clip. People are buying sports clips.

675
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: Tell me the thinking you're thinking about that. I mean,

676
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of NBA Top Shot, that's one of

677
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: the things you're referring to. I'm a buyer. Um, you know,

678
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: I love sports, I love trading cards. I've been buying

679
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: trading cards. We even talked about Sandy Kofax, you know before,

680
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: since I was a kid. So I really do see

681
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: the the n f T version of sports cards with

682
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: these videos and these moments as kind of a V

683
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: two of sports cards. I see it as kind of

684
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: the next evolution. Uh, kind of like where you see

685
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: Vinyl moving to c D C D S moving t

686
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: MP three is whatever, It's just the next evolution. At

687
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: the same At the end of the day, good music

688
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: is good music. It doesn't matter what the tech is, right,

689
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 1: So that's just my perspective. That said, NBA Top Shot

690
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: I think is awesome because, um, it's just a new

691
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: version of of sports cards. The the thing that you

692
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: said that I'm not sure if you said it on purpose.

693
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: I have to disagree with you said that it can

694
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: easily be replicated. Uh, for these videos, they can't be replicated.

695
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: The same video could be seen on YouTube, but having

696
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: that specific n f T where it's uniquely identified as

697
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: that is the one, just like my fingerprint, cannot be replicated.

698
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: So the fact that maybe there's you know, a Lebron

699
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: James dunk that's really famous, and there's a moment that

700
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: NBA top shot created and there's only ten of those

701
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: dunks and you happen to get the first one of

702
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: the ten or it doesn't matter. There's one out of

703
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 1: one and you have it. A lot of people are

704
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 1: gonna want it because that's interesting. Now, can somebody get

705
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: the Samisa video of that dunk on their phone, on

706
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: their computer, on YouTube, on snapchat, on whatever? They absolutely can? Okay,

707
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: I can I take a photo of Mona Lisa and

708
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: show it to you. Absolutely can. All these things are possible,

709
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: But the thing that is unique is the one that

710
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: is uniquely stamped to say that is one of one

711
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: and we all want it. Where a lot of people

712
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: want it, Okay, but we know with collectibles, whether it

713
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: be baseball cards or automobiles, etcetera. There's a limited market

714
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: and the price can fluctuate wildly. That's on physical assets. Basically,

715
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: if you if you buy a sports clip, if there's

716
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: not a market for it of people who want to

717
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: buy that clip, essentially it is worth nothing other than

718
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: to make you feel good that you own it. It's

719
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: that you would say that was correct, correct, absolutely correct,

720
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: But that was true with anything. You know, if you

721
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: buy a Masdamiata because you think it's a cute car

722
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: and you hope to make a million bucks and then

723
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: you find out there's no market, you know, it makes

724
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: you feel good that you bought it. If you buy

725
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: this moment on NBA top shot of of you know,

726
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: Lebron James and one wants to buy it, then you

727
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: know the market is the market. And if everybody wants

728
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: to pay you a lot of money for you're silly

729
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, uhum garbage patch kid, and then they all

730
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: want to pay for that, you know, and if not

731
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: they don't. I mean that's supply and demand. That's okay.

732
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: We have the beanie baby situation. Let's just go one

733
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: step deeper, because what is you know, creating all this

734
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: ink is people selling digital assets for enormous prices. Yeah,

735
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 1: most people would say that the people paying enormous prices

736
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: or people in the crypt the world glory made a

737
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,919
Speaker 1: lot of money in the crypto world. Do you think

738
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: that is accurate or in accurate? I mean, I don't

739
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: have uh facts, but my opinion is yes, there is

740
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: a lot of money that is moving around U trying

741
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: to diversify their ownership, um beyond you know, a certain

742
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,959
Speaker 1: amount of assets. You saw this in seventeen eighteen as well.

743
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: Uh in the rise of bitcoin, you saw these you know,

744
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: second tier coins really start to pop because people didn't

745
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: want to rely solely on Bitcoin as to where all

746
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: their crypto gains were going. So you are seeing a diversification.

747
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: You know that uh let's call it that wave popped

748
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: and uh came down significantly. That's where the term ship

749
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: coins came from because a lot of these you know

750
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: turned to ship but uh, you know, come back to today,

751
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: a lot of these coins that people thought were garbage

752
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: have come back really strong. And Bitcoin, which you know

753
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: capped out just under twenty thou fell all the way

754
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 1: down to three or four whatever and now is covering

755
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: around sixty. So yes, it took a few years. Yes,

756
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: you have to be patient. Um. So, I mean I

757
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: think these things evolved. I think n f t s

758
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: will see a similar ride. So the short answers your

759
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: question is, do I think that some amount of money

760
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: that's coming into this market is because it's crypto money,

761
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: that's you know, diversifying and just moving around their money.

762
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: I think the short answer is yes, Do I think

763
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: that's the only market? No? Do I think there's new

764
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: entrants into digital because of these moments, because of these

765
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: n f t s. Because people are attracted to sports,

766
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: people are attracted to collectibles, they're attracted to art, and

767
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: it's an interesting way to enter into digital. Absolutely, I

768
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 1: think this is just a good um marketing. You know what? Um,

769
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: You know, Chilean sea bass was not always called Chilean

770
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: sea bass. You know what it used to be called.

771
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: I know this story, but I can't remember what it

772
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: used to be called. Padigoing in toothfish, you know. And

773
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,959
Speaker 1: then like the group that was in charge of selling

774
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: Patty going intooth fish is like, Hey, we're not selling

775
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: a Patty going intooth fish. Let's rename it. Who wants

776
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: to buy a paddogoing intoothfish. Let's call itch land sea

777
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: bass off the shelf, fly and fly and flying. So,

778
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: you know, people called the bitcoin, people called the you know, shipcoins.

779
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: People called it protocols, people called it blockchain, all this

780
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: other stuff. People were like, way nerdy for me, I

781
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: don't get it, whatever, whatever, whatever. All of a sudden,

782
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: you put it under wrapper of a sports clips, some art,

783
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: some culturally relevant things. It's still on the same blockchain,

784
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it's still like the same const Okay,

785
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: but let's use bitcoin, which is the big cahuna here.

786
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: Bitcoin you can actually Bitcoin is fungible, yep. You can

787
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: buy bitcoin and sell it. Okay, it is inherent you

788
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,959
Speaker 1: can invest in it. But theoretically it's a currency. Let's

789
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: start there. What are your thoughts about digital currency? Irrelevant

790
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: of whether someone invested in the volatility, is digital currency

791
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: the future or what? Um? I mean? I think that

792
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: our own currency, the US dollar, is already massively digital.

793
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: To be clear, I don't remember the last time I

794
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: touched a paper dollar. I haven't written actual checks with

795
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: paper in literally twenty years. So to me, I use

796
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: my credit card, I scan my phone against those different

797
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: sensors at whole foods. So to me, I'm already using

798
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: a digital currency. It just happens to have, you know,

799
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: less appreciation these days, especially in the world of the

800
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 1: central bank being able to print money, which is being

801
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: done so I don't have control over the you know,

802
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 1: devaluing or valuing of the currency. So I appreciate something

803
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: like bitcoin that has a limited set that cannot be printed.

804
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: More of it can be divided further. But I like

805
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: it from that perspective, like I would think of gold,

806
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: you know, as like a store of value. In terms

807
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: of digital currency, I think that, um, you know all,

808
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: like I said, I already think the U s D

809
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: is highly digital, So I think that concept is a

810
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: little abstract for me. Well, let me use Mark and

811
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: Reesen's thought. Okay, he talks about trade. Then you get

812
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: the bank in between the buyer and the seller in

813
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: a foreign countries. He specifically used the example of Africa

814
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: and he said there's a lot of fraud in the

815
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: system that digital currency would get rid of by taking

816
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: out all those middle people. Yeah, no, I agree with that.

817
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: Um to me, again, that's having a transparent ledger where

818
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: it's very clear what is authentic and what is true

819
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: and what has actually happened. And from that perspective, I

820
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: love the blockchain. And that's where I think people are

821
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: appreciating n f T s on the blockchain because was

822
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: this really what somebody said it was? Well, you don't

823
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: have to worry about that. You know a lot of

824
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: people are selling their sneakers on eBay or on go

825
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: or stock x. One of the biggest concerns is are

826
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: these really the sneakers people say they are? So should

827
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: I be paying a hundred hours for these sneakers or

828
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: because if they're really what you say they are, they

829
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: should be so. A lot of these marketplaces usually one

830
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: of the most valuable things they nail is trust. Airbnb

831
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: people trust it, you know, uh? YouTube now people trust uh?

832
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: And I think blockchain helps to create trust. Okay, what

833
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: about all the blowback about the energy costs of blockchain.

834
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: I'm gonna admit I am not sophisticated enough, uh to

835
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 1: understand all the details there um on on the energy level,

836
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 1: But I mean, yeah, I think it's not a topic.

837
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm great. Okay, Okay, Now that, as you referenced earlier,

838
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: there are different digital currencies and you talked about Vincent

839
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: playing in the crypto field or making that stuff available.

840
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: The big cahuna once again is bitcoin, but all the

841
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: n f t s tend to be Ethereum. So if

842
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: I am on your platform, how do I decide or

843
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about investing in cryptocurrent? Yeah,

844
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: so we're gonna have that as one of the six

845
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: major verticals that you can click on. And again we're

846
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: not going to the pro level detail. You know, if

847
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: you are five years into crypto, chances are Vincent is

848
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: not where you're gonna learn more about crypto. Chances are

849
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna learn a lot more about the other five

850
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: verticals because you're so knee deep in crypto. Um. But

851
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 1: if you're a knee deep in real estate, you're probably

852
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: not gonna learn a ton more about real estate, but

853
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: you'll get more variety, but you'll probably learn about those

854
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: other places. Again, I think it's a great entry point

855
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: for a lot of folks, and as it relates to

856
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: crypto or n f T s, we're gonna tell you

857
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: what are the platforms you can enter with. You know,

858
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: we'll let you know about coin based, will let you

859
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 1: know about what the uh the preliminary coins are, We'll

860
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: tell you about what n f T s are. We'll

861
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: tell you about where your options are to be able

862
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: to navigate that UM and we'll present you with individual

863
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: options like actual individual offerings, or will tell you the

864
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: platforms where you can go. UM And as a matter

865
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 1: of fact, UH, digital uh assets and the n f

866
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: T s have been one of the fastest growing assets

867
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: because we actually have proprietary data that's unique literally to

868
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: the world, where we're able to aggregate the interest across

869
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: the verticals. So what percentage of people are interested in

870
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: real estate versus what percentage of people are interested in

871
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 1: UM digital assets, what percentage interesting collectibles? No one else

872
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: has that, and we're able to show those pie charts.

873
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: We put that out once a month. UM. And you know,

874
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: digital assets and crypto is the fastest growing market for

875
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: the last few months. UM. You know, we're very young,

876
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: so we don't have that much data yet, but it's

877
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: no surprise considering since New Year's you've really seen this

878
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: n f T craze and UH, you know bitcoin stays

879
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: very high. One thing one thing you did say just

880
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: to counter UM is yes, a lot of these n

881
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: f T s are on Ethereum, but they're not all

882
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: on Ethereum, including NBA top Shot, which is on flow

883
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: Um their own protocol, and they specifically created the own

884
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: protocol flow because of the challenges that they had with

885
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,919
Speaker 1: Ethereum when they previously came out with crypto Kiddies back

886
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and the congestion and all

887
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: the challenges, so they developed their own protocol. And now

888
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: there's more n f T s and other companies building

889
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: on that protocol. I do think you're gonna see more

890
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: competition at the protocol level, uh for you know, uh

891
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: protocols trying to win the love of these n f

892
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: T markets. Okay, now you said there are six verticals

893
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: on Vincent, could you list those? Yes? So there is

894
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: real estate, debt, venture, art, collectibles, and crypto. Okay, now

895
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: you're talking about the ability of the average person to

896
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: get into this marketplace. You know, in the last year

897
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 1: or so, if not longer, the hedge funds who have

898
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: traditionally been in this space have not been doing well,

899
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: which would anger that maybe the average person should be

900
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: suspicious or reluctant since the pros are not doing that well. Um,

901
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:16,919
Speaker 1: is there a specific question yes, The question would be

902
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: if you look at the landscape, the people who traditionally

903
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: beat the market where hedge funds. Right now, the hedge

904
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: funds are not beating the market. They are professionals. This

905
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: is what they do twenty four seven. As an amateur

906
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 1: with much less information at my fingertips, is this really

907
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 1: a place where I should be or should I say

908
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: I should be aligned with someone much more sophisticated. So

909
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 1: there's a few questions there. Um. You know, it's hard

910
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: to paint massively broad strokes on hedge funds. Um. Some

911
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: hedge funds are probably doing very well. There are doing poorly.

912
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 1: I think COVID was the sort of black swan events

913
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: that a lot of the models weren't able to plan for.

914
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: You couldn't kind of, you know, check your analysis of

915
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: what would this look like? So I'm gonna build a

916
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: fund strategy like this. So you know, a lot of

917
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: this is algorithmic trading. Uh that again, the algorithms weren't

918
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: ready for the dynamics of COVID. UM. So I think

919
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to paint broad strokes. I think that

920
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: in the more recent market, for the last year plus,

921
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: it's really been a stock pickers market, meaning a little

922
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,439
Speaker 1: bit more active management, not passive management. Uh. Some hedge

923
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: funds are set up that way. Some are more just like,

924
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, just set in and forget it. Um. And

925
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: in terms of ship, am I sophisticated enough for should

926
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: I leave it to the hedge funds? To be clear,

927
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: most of these hedge funds are participating in the public markets,

928
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: and the alternatives are not the public markets. I do

929
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: think you're gonna see more and more institutional money move

930
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: into the alternative markets. But because of UM, the lack

931
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: of control by the hedge funds and all these other

932
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: institutional players of alternative markets is where there is opportunities, uh,

933
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: to be able to just be smart and try to

934
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: you know, put some money where you believe it should go.

935
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: And it's not one of these things, where as the

936
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,760
Speaker 1: game stop investors would say that the system has already

937
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 1: rigged against you where you have no chance to win

938
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: because the institutions control it. I think the alternative markets

939
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 1: are much younger because of that, there's much more opportunity,

940
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 1: and to be fair, because of that, there's more risk,

941
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: which is why it's a higher risk prior reward market. UM.

942
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: You know, I don't consider a gambling uh you know,

943
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: on one side of the spectrum, but it's going to

944
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: be more risky than you know, investing in the Dow

945
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,879
Speaker 1: thirty where you get some I don't know, some Caterpillar

946
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: and some Coca Cola. Okay, going to the other side

947
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: of the equation, since you've also functioned on this end,

948
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: let's assume I'm a startup. Certainly twenty fifteen years ago,

949
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: my goal was to get VC money. I'd start with

950
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: maybe agel investing in VC money. Do you believe if

951
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: you're a startup that this is going to grow people

952
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: using uh these platforms to raise money as opposed to vcs,

953
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: and what are the advantages and disadvantages? Absolutely? So already

954
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: with the five million dollar cap, So twenty was a

955
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: huge year for equity crowdfunding. I believe like double the

956
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,959
Speaker 1: previous year, and this year is supposed to be something

957
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: like three four x of last year, specifically because the

958
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: one to five million dollar increase plus the increased demand

959
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,919
Speaker 1: on the on the entrepreneur side and the investors side. So,

960
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago when the markets changed from

961
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: one million dollar cap to a five million dollar cap

962
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: for the entrepreneurs in terms of how much limit they

963
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: could raise. You actually had an entrepreneur, the founder of

964
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: gum road Um was able to on day one, right

965
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 1: away raised five million dollars from about eight thousand investors

966
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: in twelve hours. I mean incredible. Now, to be clear,

967
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,760
Speaker 1: this company was not started overnight. It was already several

968
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,439
Speaker 1: years old, had already has a significant following, already makes

969
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: millions of dollars of revenue. But it's part of the

970
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: creator economy, and they wanted to get their creators involved

971
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: as investors. So they opened it up to their creators

972
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 1: and to the public, and they got funded really fast.

973
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: To me, equity is the ultimate loyalty, and I think

974
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: you'll see more and more of that from startups um

975
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 1: as they try to navigate the early days of dilution.

976
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: Some will go to vcs. There's benefits of that. You know,

977
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: a single investor. Sometimes the VC is massively connected. Maybe

978
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: they're an operator, they have a ton of experience, they

979
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 1: can help you with wisdom, but sometimes they're not. Sometimes

980
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: they're just money. And if they're just money, what's better

981
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: the three million from the just money VC or the

982
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: three million from the crowd which comes with ambassadors, it marketing,

983
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: some tweets, promotion, some love. Now what's the counter to that.

984
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're going into try to solicit one million,

985
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: three million, five million dollars through equity Craftland, you have

986
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 1: to be public about it. That's the whole premise public, right,

987
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: So you have to go out hat in hand and say,

988
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 1: you know, public here, here's here's my company, here's what's

989
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 1: going on. You've got to open the kimono a little bit,

990
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: talk about what your revenues are, talking about what's going well,

991
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: what's not going well, and they might not turn out

992
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 1: to be a great result. And if you get publicly

993
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: turned down, that's tough. You know, that's a risk that

994
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: could be a risk to your actual business because that's

995
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: marketing that didn't go well. Also, it could be challenging

996
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,240
Speaker 1: to have to interact with that many investors. Um And,

997
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 1: you know, do you want to deal with the overhead

998
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 1: related to the you know, the follow ups, etcetera, etcetera.

999
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I believe overall the pros that weighed the

1000
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 1: cons But I do think these are decisions that people

1001
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: will make more regularly. Um And I think this will

1002
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: be an exciting evolution of our capital markets, especially for

1003
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: these early stage opportunities. Let's switch gears completely telling me

1004
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: about the generation or the start of indie go Go.

1005
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: So basically you're saying I'm old, so we're gonna talk

1006
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: about another company now. Uh So yeah, we started Indigo

1007
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: Go in two thousand and six. We came up. Uh,

1008
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: we launched in two thousand eight, We launched at Sundance.

1009
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: We started with film only. Uh. The idea back then,

1010
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: before the word crowd funding existed, uh, and before any

1011
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: of the platforms existed, was really you know, Uh, it

1012
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: was about the gatekeeper, right, who was the VC, who

1013
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: was the banker, who was the grant maker at the institution,

1014
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: Who was that person that you need to kiss their

1015
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: ring and hopefully get their stamp of approval? And there

1016
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: was that man or woman that they got to decide everything,

1017
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: or those five people that get to decide any everything.

1018
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: But in a world of YouTube was starting to become interesting,

1019
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: why was it that you couldn't ask the crowd, you know,

1020
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: to fund you or not. We wanted to do what

1021
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: is now known as equity crowdfunding right away in two

1022
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: thousand and eight. The rules did not allow it because

1023
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: of the various regulations, and so we came out with

1024
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: this workaround, which is, you know, a perks or a

1025
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: donation based model where you get maybe a robot in return,

1026
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: a music album in return, a poster in return, a

1027
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: T shirt in return, or a donation attacks deduction. Um.

1028
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: And we did that, uh and off to the races.

1029
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: So it's been a wild ride. Uh in you know,

1030
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: we then were able to navigate the Jobs Act as

1031
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: I mentioned before, and things have evolved quickly. But I'm

1032
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: happy to add more color wherever you think is appropriate. Okay,

1033
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: So it's cold indiego go like indie films. It uh

1034
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: is called indie go go like independent is where the

1035
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: term comes from. It wasn't specifically because of indie films. Um.

1036
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: It was more of the independent spirit that was the concept. Um.

1037
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: But we always knew like Amazon was going to be

1038
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,439
Speaker 1: for everything. But started with books. We try to take

1039
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 1: a play out of Bezos playbook, which is starting one

1040
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: vertical to get product market fit. So we started with film. Uh.

1041
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: So we tried to get better product market fit first

1042
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: there and then we evolved into everything. Okay, from a

1043
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: layman's viewpoint, there were two entrants in the marketplace and

1044
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: still two big ones today Indiego Go and Kickstarter. From

1045
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: your viewpoint, who came first? Who innovated first? Uh? Because

1046
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: there are similarities and differences. Well, it's not exactly from

1047
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: my viewpoint, we could just ask way back machine the

1048
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: facts we were first. That's not exactly an opinion. Uh.

1049
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: Kickstarter came about a year a little over a year later,

1050
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: about a year and a half. H Kickstarter did lots

1051
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: of great things. They brought a lot of amazing design,

1052
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: did a lot of good curation in terms of good

1053
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: product projects. Um. I thought it was great historically to

1054
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: be able to both compete and both in prove for

1055
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: the backers the funders uh product that everybody likes, um

1056
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: and to be fair. Over time, there were more entrance

1057
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: that came in, right, you have go fund me, uh

1058
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: comes in and does a really great job in the

1059
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: cause and nonprofit space. And then Patreon comes into and

1060
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: Patreon h comes in late focused much more on the creator.

1061
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: You know. I think they just raised was it today?

1062
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: I think that at four billion dollar valuations? God bless them.

1063
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: So um yeah, I mean the concept of crowdfunding has

1064
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: really been abstracted quite a bit. Um. But yeah, I

1065
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: guess you know, when I'm old, I get to at

1066
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: least appreciate that pretty much. You know, we helped start

1067
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: the entire movement in January. Okay, so when you have Kickstarter.

1068
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: Just talking about those two companies, Kickstarter and indiego go,

1069
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: are they relatively the same size? Is one larger than

1070
01:00:55,000 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: another today today? Yeah? So there pretty similar? I think. Um,

1071
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: you know, indie goog focuses very much on the entrepreneur,

1072
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: and I would say that Kickstarter focuses more on the creator. Uh.

1073
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: There are certain verticals that indie googo doesn't focus on

1074
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: that Kickstarter does very well in UM for example, like gaming,

1075
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: uh and some other verticals. But in the side the

1076
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: verticals that indigogo focuses on, UM, we're definitely very large

1077
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 1: and doing very well. Okay, And to what degree are

1078
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: you still involved? I mean I'm definitely involved. I'm on

1079
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: the board, a large shareholder to say the least, and

1080
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: still very much care how my first child does. I

1081
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: actually have uh, two human children now, one is five

1082
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: and a half and one is almost three. But I

1083
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: know what it's like to raise them, and I know

1084
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: what it was like to raise indie go go s

1085
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: indi Gogo is definitely still the first child, so definitely involved.

1086
01:01:58,080 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: You know, we put in a great CEO, a senior

1087
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 1: executive from Reddit. Uh. Indie Googo is doing really well.

1088
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 1: We've been growing significantly. Covid was actually a major tailwind

1089
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 1: kind of like Etsy uh and Amazon. You saw a

1090
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: lot of that um demand for digital as well as

1091
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: kind of unique things, and we saw that demand come

1092
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: to Indiegogo and we're actually profitable and we've been profitable

1093
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: for a while. Okay, but Kickstarter is basically going to

1094
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: limit I don't want to use the wrong technology, but

1095
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: they're not talking about ultimately selling it, etcetera. What is

1096
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: the indie go go viewpoint? I mean, I can't comment

1097
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: on what Kickstarter does. I'm not on the board there.

1098
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: But Indiegogo, you know, uh, like I mentioned, we're profitable,

1099
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: we sustainable, get to you know, run our own future,

1100
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 1: and you know, we still want to figure out what

1101
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna be when we grow up. As long as

1102
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: we have customers that like using us and we're improving

1103
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: the product, we'll keep on looking to serve the market.

1104
01:02:55,480 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: Where we're geriatric in the Internet time, we're like thirty,

1105
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: but you know, it's a game of musical chairs and

1106
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: there are fewer chairs and they're ever reducing. So theoretically

1107
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: Indiego Go could go public and you could have a

1108
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: big pay day. Theoretically, anything is possible. Okay, well I've

1109
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: been Kickstarter. I'm pretty sure they said no for them.

1110
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: So let's talk about you. So where did you grow up?

1111
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: I was born in Belarus in Minsk, which is uh

1112
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: former Soviet Union. Um. And then I was born in

1113
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 1: seventy eight. Came over when I was six months old

1114
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 1: with my parents and my brother to Brooklyn. We lived there.

1115
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: So I'm a Jew, so that's the wait. Wait, wait,

1116
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: just because I'm interested, how did your family get out

1117
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: of Belarus? Because it wasn't so easy then? Right, So

1118
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: we're Jewish and um, you know Belarus and the Soviet

1119
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: Union wasn't too excited about keeping their Jews, so they

1120
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: were open to letting the Jews go. Um. So we

1121
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: were part of that wave, and my dad put our

1122
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: name into the lottery, uh and we won the lottery. Um.

1123
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: You know, winning as a relative concept. To be able

1124
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: to leave without anything, and to be an immigrant with

1125
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: nothing except for the clothes are on your backs and

1126
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: come into Brooklyn, Brooklyn and seventy nine and then the eighties,

1127
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: the Giuliani eighties, which referring to get to the Giuliani eighties,

1128
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 1: What did your father do for work in Belarus and

1129
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: then what did he do in Brooklyn? Yes, so I

1130
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: have really great parents, smart parents, which actually just shows

1131
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: how much Russia didn't care about Jews because they let

1132
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: go of a mechanical engineer. Uh. And my mom is

1133
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: a doctor. So two of the two main professions that

1134
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union wanted, which was engineers and doctors, they

1135
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: let go of two of those folks. Um and Yes,

1136
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: so my dad became an engineer again. Um in Brooklyn. Uh.

1137
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: He actually didn't know English. He learned English by watching movies.

1138
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 1: He learned German in Russia, so he didn't study English

1139
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 1: in Russia. My my mo, they're actually studies some English

1140
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 1: back in Russia. She had to retake her certification, so

1141
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 1: she was a certified doctor in Belarus, and then she

1142
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: had to be re certified in English, which I can't

1143
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: even fathom that concept. That's kind of like graduating college

1144
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: and then having to do it again in another language

1145
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 1: as bananas while she had two kids. Um, so we

1146
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 1: were in Brooklyn until I was seven. Then my mom

1147
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: got her residency. Go ahead, No, so she did pass

1148
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: those boards, she sure did. Okay, so you're saying you

1149
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: were in Brooklyn til your seven. She had a residency.

1150
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: So she got her residency in northeast Pennsylvania in a

1151
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: scrant Wilkesburg area. So we all moved to Scranton as

1152
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: part of that. Um. And Uh, my dad then um

1153
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 1: got cancer and when I was in high school, and

1154
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: he died when I was in high school, and I

1155
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 1: then went to penn I went to Wharton Underground a

1156
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 1: little bit slower. So you went to public school? Yeah,

1157
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: so I went to private school. I went to Hebrew

1158
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: Private School in Brooklyn, and then I went to Hebrew

1159
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: Private Day School, uh in Pennsylvania through eighth grade. Um,

1160
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: I was going to go to a private secular school

1161
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: for high school like my brother did. Um, But because

1162
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: my dad died of cancer, we were, uh, you know,

1163
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: struggling more with cash and trying to make sure that

1164
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: things were able to work out. So we decided I

1165
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: would go to public school for for high school. Right.

1166
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 1: So what was it like? Because I certainly went to

1167
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: high school being the new kid in high school with

1168
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 1: the first name Slava. Uh. It was challenging. It was challenging.

1169
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: I mean when I was a new kid to the

1170
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:49,919
Speaker 1: high school for my district was like, I don't know,

1171
01:06:51,360 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: Italian and literally a Catholic. Um. So um, yeah, it

1172
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: was challenging. I mean Slava was one thing. It was

1173
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: actually more challenging to be Jewish, to be perfectly frank,

1174
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 1: uh no one. I mean, at least in my school,

1175
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: being a Jew was uh, I don't know. I might

1176
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: as well have been a dinosaur, uh, like something that

1177
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: they saw in the movies, like on Jurassic Park. And

1178
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 1: it was an interesting experience. Um. You know, I just navigated.

1179
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: I had to deal with uh, some anti Semitism, but overall,

1180
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: I mean I think it was fine. Um. And you know,

1181
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 1: I graduated Valuatorians, so that I had some pros and cons.

1182
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 1: Pros being like, you know, it's nice to finish top

1183
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: of your class. Cons that you know, people kind of

1184
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: knew that I was smart, and it's not always the

1185
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 1: best thing to do to be like smart as part

1186
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: of your coolness factor in high school. You know, I

1187
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 1: did buffer that a little bit with being an athlete.

1188
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: I and call myself a jock, but I did play football, basketball,

1189
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: and tennis. Um so, uh, you know, I just rolled

1190
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: with the punches and sometimes that included punches, but uh,

1191
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: it's all good, Okay. So if you were the valedictorian.

1192
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 1: I grew up in the Jewish family, but a couple

1193
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 1: of generations were moved from Russia. Uh, and there was

1194
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,879
Speaker 1: a lot of parental pressure to do well in school.

1195
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:30,480
Speaker 1: Did you have that same pressure, believe it or not. No. Um,

1196
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 1: I find it fascinating how the results came about. But

1197
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: you know, my parents were too busy surviving and being

1198
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs themselves. And when I say the word entrepreneur, I

1199
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: don't mean in vocation. I mean in just navigating life.

1200
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: So they had so many risks and had so many

1201
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:52,719
Speaker 1: problems to navigate on their own to make it seem

1202
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 1: like life was okay for their kids that I don't

1203
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: think they had like enough capacity to like over focus

1204
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: on you need to get an A plus. That doesn't

1205
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: mean they were okay with like a D minus coming

1206
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 1: in on the report card, but it was kind of like, hey, hey,

1207
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 1: you know you're studying, you doing your work. You're doing

1208
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: your work, you know. Um, so yeah, I don't really

1209
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: remember getting like, you know, uh really like helicoptered over me.

1210
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 1: I think my brother, who was four and a half

1211
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 1: years older, probably did have more than that. Um. And

1212
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: I'm the younger child. So you know, the more children

1213
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 1: you have, the later the child, the less you know,

1214
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: the parents care. Uh as I smile, but um yeah.

1215
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:40,520
Speaker 1: And then by the time i'm um, you know, already

1216
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:44,600
Speaker 1: in high school, sorry, in late grade school and then

1217
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 1: high school, you know, my dad's already getting cancer. And

1218
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: you know, that's three really rough years. There's no focusing

1219
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: on my grades when that's happening. So, uh, you know,

1220
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 1: I was kind of like, I just thought it was

1221
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:00,640
Speaker 1: important for me to be educated, try to have a

1222
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: good future. Okay, what is your brother do today? Uh?

1223
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: So my brother works for City Bank. Okay, so you

1224
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 1: have two kids, they're young. Let's say your kids said

1225
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: they didn't want to go to college. That be okay

1226
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 1: with you. I mean generically, that's totally fine with me. Um.

1227
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 1: I think college, as you know, a structure is evolving.

1228
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, I I don't really have an issue with that.

1229
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 1: I do have an issue with them not getting educated

1230
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 1: and being like responsible adults and of high integrity and

1231
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: being able to be good decision makers. I think that UM,

1232
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 1: with information coming to our fingertips in every direction and

1233
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 1: having the simple facts or the calculus being figured out

1234
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:50,640
Speaker 1: for us by computers, being able to navigate morality and

1235
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:53,640
Speaker 1: ethics and decision making is me really important. Whether that

1236
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 1: requires college or not, I'm not sure, but I would

1237
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,280
Speaker 1: want them to be, you know, well educated and ready

1238
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: for life as become grown ups. Okay, so you go

1239
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:04,680
Speaker 1: to Penn, and you go to Wharton, So you go

1240
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 1: in knowing that you want to study business. Yeah, I

1241
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 1: mean I started UM buying and selling trading cards. Going

1242
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:14,800
Speaker 1: back to the early parts of our discussion, when I

1243
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: was a kid. I'm talking like, you know, nine, ten, eleven, twelve,

1244
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: Like I was already buying basketball cards and trying to

1245
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 1: buy them for four dollars and try to sell them

1246
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 1: for ten dollars at the malls or at the hotels

1247
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 1: or at these like shows. And I was like a

1248
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:35,640
Speaker 1: little kid, and I loved getting these magazines. Um, you know,

1249
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 1: Beckett and Tough Stuff. Beckett still exists, you know, thirty

1250
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: years later, but Beckett and Tough Stuff, and you know,

1251
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 1: you can only get these magazines once a month, and

1252
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 1: they would tell you the price went up or went

1253
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 1: down once a month, and the arrow was up or

1254
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 1: down or flat once a month. Can you imagine that

1255
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 1: we're asking if we could get liquidity within a millisecond,

1256
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: like Robin, I'm talking about once a month. So I mean, like, um, yeah,

1257
01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 1: I loved it. Back then, I went into this high

1258
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 1: school program where they asked you to create this kind

1259
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: of poster about yourself as part of the summer program

1260
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: and what you want your future to be, and as

1261
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 1: part of my future I I put in the poster.

1262
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 1: I was like, I want Wharton to be part of

1263
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 1: my future. This was already while I was in high school,

1264
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 1: and you know, I was lucky enough to get into Warden,

1265
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: which was great. But even back then, I thought I

1266
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 1: wanted to be involved with business. You know, I thought

1267
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 1: I was gonna be more of a um Wall Street

1268
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: the movie, like a banker Gore and Get Go type,

1269
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, try to take some of the negative out

1270
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: of that. But I thought that's what I wanted to do.

1271
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 1: But then what I slowly learned is that's that's not

1272
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 1: actually who I want to be. I want to use

1273
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 1: the capabilities of business the capabilities of decision making a

1274
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 1: math and you know how you create value, uh, to navigate, Uh,

1275
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,680
Speaker 1: you know, trying to create you know, positive things in

1276
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: the world, which you know turned out to be me

1277
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 1: being a strategy consultant for eight years. Um, so yeah,

1278
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 1: I never really became one of those like investment bankers

1279
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: or that type of role. I mean, I have investment

1280
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 1: bankers that are nice people and friends of my but

1281
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: I decided, as part of you know, getting what I wanted,

1282
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: I decided that wasn't what I wanted, if that makes sense. Okay,

1283
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: so you're in Warden in retrospect. Uh did you learn

1284
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 1: something or was it more you got a diploma? Oh,

1285
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,480
Speaker 1: Wharton was great. I mean it was super super difficult.

1286
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like fairly intelligent. There was way more

1287
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 1: intelligent people have Warden. I mean I brought the S

1288
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:26,600
Speaker 1: A T. I would scored down for sure, but the

1289
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,719
Speaker 1: good and the bad about word. It's no fooling around.

1290
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: It's not like some liberal arts school where hopefully you

1291
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: get an A or not, like most of the classes

1292
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 1: are on a curve massively competitive. You know, Uh, if

1293
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 1: the highest scores of sixty and you've got a fifty nine,

1294
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 1: and then you've got a great grade if if everybody's

1295
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: got a ninety eight and you got a ninety seven,

1296
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 1: and then you're left so like everything was competitive and

1297
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: you weren't competing. You know, you weren't six ft eight

1298
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:58,919
Speaker 1: playing against five ft nine's. You're everybody's pretty solid. So um,

1299
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 1: I I loved it. Mean you have to always be sharp.

1300
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 1: You're surrounded by really smart people, really creative people. I

1301
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 1: mean the you know my class, and I'm sure pretty

1302
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:08,640
Speaker 1: much all the classes can say this, but you know

1303
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:12,799
Speaker 1: my graduating class as incredible results, I mean founders of PayPal, etcetera, etcetera.

1304
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:17,679
Speaker 1: I mean great stuff LinkedIn whatever, lots of cool stuff. Okay,

1305
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: So what's the difference between going to graduate school and

1306
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 1: Wharton and being an undergraduate? That's a great question. It's

1307
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 1: a great question only because I'll have fun with this.

1308
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 1: See a lot of people say they went to Wharton

1309
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 1: and they actually went to the business school, which is

1310
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 1: the graduate school, which you know, I say this with

1311
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:36,759
Speaker 1: a smile because we're on audio, which is way easier

1312
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 1: to get into than it is for the undergraduate degree.

1313
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 1: See an undergraduate degree. Wharton is the only IVY with

1314
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: an undergraduate degree in business. So you can't get an

1315
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 1: undergraduate degree in business from Princeton or from Harvard or

1316
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,800
Speaker 1: from whatever. So uh so, if you want a quote

1317
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:58,639
Speaker 1: unquote Ivy League degree, but you want a business degree,

1318
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 1: Waren is the only game in town. So it's massively

1319
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:05,599
Speaker 1: competitive to get into. I'm pretty confident there's no way

1320
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 1: I would get into it today if I applied today,

1321
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:12,599
Speaker 1: because the caliber is just ridiculous. Um. But yeah, I

1322
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:15,559
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. Um. I thought it was a great experience.

1323
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 1: I personally love competition. I grew up with sports. My

1324
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 1: dad taught. You know, my dad was great at sports.

1325
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 1: He taught the US sports. I love the idea of

1326
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:27,599
Speaker 1: winning and losing. I think losing and failure is pinnacle

1327
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: to being educated. Um So yeah, I really enjoyed all

1328
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:37,759
Speaker 1: the team projects at Wharton, as well as all the

1329
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: competitive energy and everything surrounding. So what did you actually

1330
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 1: learn there other than the competition? I mean a majority

1331
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,439
Speaker 1: of your degree is actually pretty similar to your neighbor,

1332
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 1: which is you're getting the accounting one on one and

1333
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 1: one or two, the finance one on one, the you know,

1334
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:58,240
Speaker 1: the writing that this to that, and then you specialize

1335
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: with you know, your focus areas. So I did to

1336
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: focus areas. I did a finance focus area. I was

1337
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:07,719
Speaker 1: a double major, so finance and entrepreneurial management, which basically

1338
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: means I already knew I liked entrepreneurship. But most people,

1339
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, what's happening, Warren, is you're getting like the

1340
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 1: exact same degree and then personalized, which I like to

1341
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: joke around. Some people go their vocation. They want to

1342
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: be a plumber, so they go to learn how to

1343
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: be a plumber. We go to learn how to be

1344
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 1: a business person. I mean they're just like spitting out

1345
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,759
Speaker 1: business people. And I say that in the nicest way possible.

1346
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: And then so you graduate from Penn and then you

1347
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 1: were talking about the UH. You had a different job

1348
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 1: before Indiego go. Yeah, I graduated two thousand. I was

1349
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 1: a strategy consultant for UM uh seven just under eight

1350
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:50,719
Speaker 1: years for who And what was that experience? Like, yeah,

1351
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: it was great. Um it was for Diamonds. So now

1352
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,800
Speaker 1: I diamond was bought by p WC, so it's a

1353
01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:00,160
Speaker 1: consulting firm. But I got to work at the UH,

1354
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, at the most senior levels at huge companies

1355
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 1: as a consultant helping companies navigate their biggest decisions about

1356
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:11,680
Speaker 1: how to plan for the future. UM. More specifically, I

1357
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 1: worked with companies like FedEx, I worked with Goldman sachs Uh.

1358
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 1: I worked with others that are not able to name,

1359
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:22,880
Speaker 1: like large telecom companies. But like a really fun exercise

1360
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 1: UM that I was a part of in the early

1361
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 1: two thousand's is we work for a telecom company, a

1362
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 1: very large telecom company. And at the time, in the

1363
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 1: early two thousands, if the folks can remember, everybody was

1364
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:38,719
Speaker 1: talking about the last mile Internet, and they were saying,

1365
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: D a seller cable is a D A seller cable,

1366
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 1: which one's gonna win? And everybody's trying to sign a

1367
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 1: D sell or cable. It's kind of like you know, Beta,

1368
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: VH at whatever. And UM. They asked us, They're like, well,

1369
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:52,840
Speaker 1: we know we need to deploy a ton of money

1370
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 1: against one of these, so can you tell us is it,

1371
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 1: you know, D sell or cable? And we did the

1372
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 1: analysis and I'll just fast forward word. But this is

1373
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:03,479
Speaker 1: early two thousands, okay, so we don't even have the

1374
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:07,760
Speaker 1: iPhone yet, okay, And we told them we actually think

1375
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 1: wireless internet is going to be an interesting way to

1376
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:17,719
Speaker 1: deliver last mile internet. They said, no, no, the question

1377
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: was dsllor cable. It's not that hard. We're paying you

1378
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:22,759
Speaker 1: millions of dollars. All you have to say is AIRB

1379
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:26,799
Speaker 1: and we're good. And we said wireless internet is probably

1380
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 1: where things are headed. And they said again, just DSL

1381
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 1: or cable or we're not paying you your fees. And

1382
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: we're like, well, we think it's be wireless internet. And

1383
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 1: they said, how can it be wireless inet? And we said, well,

1384
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 1: you know, some smart people were able to figure out

1385
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 1: how to take you know, the spectrum of the signal

1386
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: for um, your video and now they give you Internet

1387
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 1: through that cable. Well, those same smart people are going

1388
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 1: to figure out how to take the signal from your

1389
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:00,960
Speaker 1: cell phones and they're gonna put Internet on it. And

1390
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 1: that's that's gonna be really too difficult. And the amazing

1391
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 1: thing is, like about seven years later, I remember like

1392
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:09,840
Speaker 1: that first commercial. I think it was like two eight

1393
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 1: maybe two thousand nine. There's like that commercial where there's

1394
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:16,200
Speaker 1: this guy who's walking through the swamp and he's holding

1395
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:18,840
Speaker 1: his laptop above the water of the swamp and he

1396
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 1: has like a little dongle that's connected into the complete

1397
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: the laptop and he's like using the Internet with the

1398
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 1: dongle and I was like, oh my gosh, somebody's actually

1399
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:31,759
Speaker 1: doing this wireless internet. Here you go. I mean obviously

1400
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 1: now you know, kids don't even understand what it means

1401
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 1: to not have Internet on your phone wirelessly. That's just

1402
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: like water, right, It's it's more important than water. So yeah,

1403
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:44,000
Speaker 1: I used to do that, so trying to predict five

1404
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 1: to seven years out where companies should be trying to

1405
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 1: aim their huge tankers because it's not always easy to

1406
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 1: be nimble. Um. So yeah, that's what I did for

1407
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 1: for a while and it was great learning because I

1408
01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,719
Speaker 1: got to learn corporate structure. I got to manage folks.

1409
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 1: I got to see how to make big decisions and

1410
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 1: that was really helpful to building indiego Go and then

1411
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:06,840
Speaker 1: now Vincent. So how did you decide to leave? What

1412
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:09,559
Speaker 1: was the first thing you did as after you left? Well,

1413
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:11,760
Speaker 1: I always wanted to be entrepreneurial. I just never had

1414
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:15,759
Speaker 1: the gut instinct on what to do. And then finally

1415
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 1: my two co founders, Eric din In I came up

1416
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,600
Speaker 1: with the idea for indiego Go and then parallel processed

1417
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 1: building indiego Go while working at Diamond for all of

1418
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:27,760
Speaker 1: two thousand seven and then January one, I officially went

1419
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 1: full time on on on indie goo go. Um. I

1420
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: was excited, you know, um, as much as being in

1421
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:39,280
Speaker 1: the services industry is great. And when I mean by that,

1422
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:42,200
Speaker 1: you know, being a lawyer, a banker, a consultant, et cetera,

1423
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,679
Speaker 1: being able to be an operator and actually making something

1424
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:48,600
Speaker 1: and bringing you know, a turning air into reality and

1425
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: bringing something to the world is really like so fun,

1426
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:56,720
Speaker 1: just so awesome. It's also like massively difficult, but it's

1427
01:20:56,760 --> 01:21:00,120
Speaker 1: so great. And when you started indigogo, would you do

1428
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 1: for money? Um? So we purposely planned, the two co

1429
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 1: founders and I to use our own savings up front,

1430
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 1: so I purposely saved. Um. We actually got rejected by

1431
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,719
Speaker 1: nine three vcs in a row because the market crashed

1432
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 1: at the end of two thou and the fall. We

1433
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:23,639
Speaker 1: definitely didn't predict that, so we definitely ran out of money.

1434
01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 1: You know, I was paying to work for three years

1435
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:29,760
Speaker 1: pretty much, so that was not a good paying job

1436
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:31,880
Speaker 1: about r o I. But in the long run, it

1437
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: all worked out because it got me to the results

1438
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 1: on that today and it's all good. I like to

1439
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 1: think long term. Often their short term pain or short

1440
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 1: term obstacles, and usually the things that are the most

1441
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 1: valuable or will give you the most return will require

1442
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 1: a little bit more of that long term view, and

1443
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 1: some challenges you need to overcome. And in those three years,

1444
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:54,280
Speaker 1: how many times did you save yourself? We should pack

1445
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 1: this in. I should go back to the other world

1446
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:01,120
Speaker 1: just one time, just one time, very seriou. It was

1447
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:05,080
Speaker 1: middle of two thousand nine. It was already very dark.

1448
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 1: Crash of two thousand eight was rough. It was pretty

1449
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 1: clear we weren't going to get institutional funding. It was

1450
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 1: pretty clear that we now have run out of our

1451
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:19,519
Speaker 1: savings of the three founders, and it was pretty clear

1452
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:21,200
Speaker 1: that the only ones we have to rely on are

1453
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 1: the three of us. There's no hiring anybody, there's no

1454
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:29,519
Speaker 1: asking anybody for some money. There's only just brute force.

1455
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,200
Speaker 1: Do we want to not get paid and keep on

1456
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 1: working on this until it works? And I remember we

1457
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 1: had this conversation where we all set to ourselves. Listen,

1458
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 1: you know, it's pretty rough. I like to joke around

1459
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:41,599
Speaker 1: that I was thinner back then because I couldn't afford

1460
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:47,519
Speaker 1: much food and um, we just said maybe we should

1461
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:49,600
Speaker 1: get part time jobs so we could sustain ourselves a

1462
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 1: little bit better while we work on our actual gig

1463
01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 1: and for better or worse. I was very adamant. I

1464
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 1: was like, listen, the second we step out part time,

1465
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:03,599
Speaker 1: we're done. So if we want to do part time,

1466
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 1: we might as well just close. And the argument was like,

1467
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:07,720
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, we want to do part time so

1468
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 1: we could sustain doing what we want to do. And

1469
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 1: I was at him and it was like, listen, either

1470
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 1: we're in or we're out. And we're out, it's cool,

1471
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:17,840
Speaker 1: we're done, but if we're in, it's only full. There

1472
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:21,400
Speaker 1: is no part And how long how long after that

1473
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:27,600
Speaker 1: conversation did it start to turn around? Um? Look, we

1474
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:32,640
Speaker 1: made some kind of last stand sort of moves. We

1475
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:35,759
Speaker 1: made some major product moves, we opened up the entire site.

1476
01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 1: There's really three things we did. Um, but yes, a

1477
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 1: few months after that things started turning around, and before

1478
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:48,599
Speaker 1: you know it, we saw real growth. And we didn't

1479
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,280
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to just fool around with monetization, like, oh,

1480
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 1: it's not necessary right now, we're just trying to grow.

1481
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 1: We were monetizing right away because we wanted money and

1482
01:23:56,760 --> 01:24:01,559
Speaker 1: I was really helpful, and um are It's funny. Our

1483
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 1: corporate council at indigogo is actually the same corporate council

1484
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:09,160
Speaker 1: that I originally hired back in two thousand seven. And

1485
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:12,519
Speaker 1: he always jokes around. He's, you know, very senior lawyer

1486
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: now at a firm, and and he jokes around, he's like,

1487
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 1: you know, all my other clients that were of your

1488
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,320
Speaker 1: size in the market crash of two eight, none survived

1489
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 1: past a few years. You were the only ones, the

1490
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:30,559
Speaker 1: only ones. And he always ask me, I still don't

1491
01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:33,360
Speaker 1: understand how you guys survived, And I was like, it's easy.

1492
01:24:33,479 --> 01:24:36,320
Speaker 1: They all ran out of money. We had no money,

1493
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,920
Speaker 1: so we could not run out of it. Okay, so

1494
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:44,519
Speaker 1: it becomes successful. How did you decide to walk away

1495
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:48,559
Speaker 1: on a day by day basis? So you know, we're

1496
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 1: continued to build and grow. Um, we are continued to innovate.

1497
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:55,839
Speaker 1: And then a few years ago, you know, I started

1498
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: about eight years ago Angel Investing, and I have really

1499
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: loved it. I really love entrepreneurs. I like working with entrepreneurs,

1500
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 1: even if I don't make a dollar, just because I

1501
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 1: feel like any one entrepreneur has an opportunity to change

1502
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:10,080
Speaker 1: the world. So why not stack the odds in our

1503
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:12,639
Speaker 1: favor for for Earth and just like get as many

1504
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs as successful as possible. And I've really enjoyed the experience.

1505
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 1: I've had some really good results. And my friend and

1506
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: I from Penn said to you know, he's been doing

1507
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 1: a great job angel investing as well, and we just said,

1508
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:26,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be cool if we took all of our

1509
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 1: learnings and of our operator knowledge and our network and

1510
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 1: try to pay it forward onto like, you know, the

1511
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: next wave of entrepreneurs. So we decided to build a

1512
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:40,759
Speaker 1: venture fund, and so we launched that in eighteen and

1513
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:44,120
Speaker 1: that was part of stepping away. Also, indie goog was

1514
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 1: really hitting more of a steady state, add more zeros

1515
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 1: type of business. And while adding more zeros is great

1516
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:54,760
Speaker 1: and amazing and the world needs more zeros, and you know,

1517
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 1: people making more money needs more zeros. Um I like

1518
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:01,120
Speaker 1: zero to one and innovation and taking air and turning

1519
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:03,679
Speaker 1: into reality. So I was just looking for a little

1520
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:06,200
Speaker 1: bit of the next challenge and putting in the right

1521
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 1: leaders so that I can you know, start this fund

1522
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 1: with my friend Cyrus. Okay, so you started the vc

1523
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 1: fund with how much money. Our first fund is thirty

1524
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 1: million dollars three zero and we it's a vintage. So

1525
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:25,679
Speaker 1: we're now seventeen portfolio companies in and it's going quite well. Okay,

1526
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:28,120
Speaker 1: So if you have seventeen companies, so the big example

1527
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 1: here is soft Bank, their hit the ship ratio is bad.

1528
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:34,200
Speaker 1: They have these master failures, but they have these massive

1529
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 1: success successes for those who are unsophisticated. If you have

1530
01:26:38,439 --> 01:26:43,599
Speaker 1: seventeen companies, realistically, how many do you have your hopes

1531
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 1: on that are going to make the whole investment worth it? Well,

1532
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:52,080
Speaker 1: I mean different vcs have different approaches how they navigate that.

1533
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:56,000
Speaker 1: There's more the spray and prey much smaller dollar amounts

1534
01:26:56,080 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: and have as a diverse portfolio as possible to really

1535
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:03,479
Speaker 1: play that lottery and play those actual real sciences around

1536
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 1: the statistics. Others, you know, have more concentrated positions where

1537
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 1: they really are trying to have more hits, as you say,

1538
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 1: but maybe each of the hits doesn't have to be

1539
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:17,080
Speaker 1: as big, but you want to have a higher hit ratio.

1540
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 1: For us, uh, we're more consolidated. I mean only seventeen,

1541
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 1: which is not that many for an early stage and

1542
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:27,800
Speaker 1: because our funded so small thirty million. I mean small

1543
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:31,080
Speaker 1: as a relative concept. If one of these companies, if

1544
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 1: we have a decent amount of ownership decent again is

1545
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:35,640
Speaker 1: all relative. If one of these companies is worth a

1546
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:40,040
Speaker 1: few billion, I mean we could have massive returns. Okay.

1547
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 1: So from the outside, living through this whole uh Internet explosion,

1548
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,519
Speaker 1: you know, the middle of the nineties, everybody gets a

1549
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:53,519
Speaker 1: O well and they start playing online. Then there's high

1550
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 1: speed and ultimately uh the internet wirelessly as you say,

1551
01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:02,639
Speaker 1: but there was a new company, Like every month, there

1552
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:06,360
Speaker 1: was a new thing, okay, and then ultimately we hit

1553
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 1: a big level of consolidation that we have a handful

1554
01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 1: of large companies obviously, Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon, and Microsoft.

1555
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:22,920
Speaker 1: Has you seen a concombinant? Can commonant decrease in the

1556
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 1: number of entrepreneurs or the number of successes? I think, um,

1557
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:35,160
Speaker 1: I think the actual fact is yes, I think the

1558
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:38,680
Speaker 1: number of entrepreneurs is going down, um, But I think

1559
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:41,519
Speaker 1: that includes a lot of these small businesses entrepreneurs. I

1560
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 1: think the number of tech entrepreneurs UH in total is growing.

1561
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:52,959
Speaker 1: But and I think the number of UM positive results

1562
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:56,160
Speaker 1: is growing. So it all depends on what lends you're

1563
01:28:56,200 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 1: looking at. I do think that. You know, when we

1564
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 1: have that new wave of Internet innovation in the late nineties,

1565
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 1: it was just such a huge movement of so much

1566
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:15,439
Speaker 1: technology and so much opportunity. I do think blockchain is

1567
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:20,759
Speaker 1: offering directionally something like that. I don't think it's quite

1568
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,800
Speaker 1: as big of a shift, but I do think you'll

1569
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:30,840
Speaker 1: get there. I think, like, uh, the late nineties, there

1570
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:32,759
Speaker 1: was a lot of garbage that we don't remember today.

1571
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:35,439
Speaker 1: There's a lot of companies that we probably can't even

1572
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 1: remember where they fit on the rolodex of index cards

1573
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:43,639
Speaker 1: of whatever alphabet soup. But we also got Amazon and

1574
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:48,639
Speaker 1: other amazing companies. So are there going to be game

1575
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:52,400
Speaker 1: changing companies that we live with ten years from now

1576
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:57,360
Speaker 1: that are fairly young right now? Absolutely are all the

1577
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:00,599
Speaker 1: companies that are talking about n f T are crypto

1578
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:04,639
Speaker 1: or blockchain or whatever fancy technology. I mean, we haven't

1579
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:06,760
Speaker 1: even talked about DNA sequencing. We haven't even talked about

1580
01:30:06,760 --> 01:30:12,240
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things right um, Innovation will continue,

1581
01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 1: Companies will continue to improve the world, and they'll create

1582
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, enterprise value and wealth as part of it.

1583
01:30:20,160 --> 01:30:24,679
Speaker 1: That is without a doubt. What often happens is people

1584
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 1: expect the things to have quicker than they do in

1585
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 1: the short term, and they're surprised how quickly they happen

1586
01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:39,000
Speaker 1: in the long term. I understand that. Okay, in terms

1587
01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 1: of consolidation, I mean, brad Stone wrote a whole book

1588
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:45,200
Speaker 1: about Amazon with diapers dot Com. You know, they forced

1589
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:47,479
Speaker 1: them to sell and then they ultimately go out of

1590
01:30:47,479 --> 01:30:50,639
Speaker 1: the diaper business. You have them, You have Facebook buying

1591
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:53,240
Speaker 1: what'sapp before people in Washington, d C. Even know what

1592
01:30:53,280 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 1: it is, and they certainly buy Instagram as a VC

1593
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:02,639
Speaker 1: and as new companies that us be imposing that must say, hey,

1594
01:31:02,680 --> 01:31:04,880
Speaker 1: we got to find our direction otherwise one of these

1595
01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:07,680
Speaker 1: big companies will either put us out of business or

1596
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:11,959
Speaker 1: force us to sell them to them. Yeah, it's imposing,

1597
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 1: for sure, But you know, you need to live out

1598
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 1: of respect, not fear. So if you don't respect your competition,

1599
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 1: if you don't understand the landscape, don't understand the situation,

1600
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:27,639
Speaker 1: then you're destined to just fail. If you live out

1601
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:30,760
Speaker 1: of fear from even starting because of course Amazon will

1602
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:32,760
Speaker 1: just crush me, or of course Google will just crush me,

1603
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:37,720
Speaker 1: then what's the point. You might as well just not start. Um.

1604
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:42,120
Speaker 1: You know a lot of the key to succeeding is

1605
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 1: just putting one ft in front of the next and

1606
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:46,800
Speaker 1: continue to make progress. And the truth of the matter is,

1607
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,800
Speaker 1: while these huge companies are amazing and great, and I'm

1608
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:51,719
Speaker 1: a shareholder of a lot of them because they're public,

1609
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:53,759
Speaker 1: and I've been invested in them for a while because

1610
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:56,920
Speaker 1: I think a lot of them are great companies. Um

1611
01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 1: you know, they're also big, huge companies now that are

1612
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:02,880
Speaker 1: slow and not nimble. So that's why there's all these

1613
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:06,640
Speaker 1: opportunities for these nimble startups that continue to crush it.

1614
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:09,719
Speaker 1: You know, we're about to see coin base go public.

1615
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean, what is gonna be that valuation? Honestly, it's

1616
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:16,680
Speaker 1: gonna be absolutely obnoxious. I mean I'm quite confident it's

1617
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 1: gonna be over a hundred billion dollars. So where was

1618
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 1: Where was Google? Where was Amazon? Where was Facebook? They

1619
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:28,240
Speaker 1: could have all built it right and it happened right

1620
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:32,240
Speaker 1: underneath their noses. Okay, So what are the seventeen companies

1621
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:34,680
Speaker 1: or what are they? What areas are they working in

1622
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:39,840
Speaker 1: that you've invested in? Um So, we love health tech

1623
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:44,760
Speaker 1: because of my partners Cyrus who helped build SoC doc.

1624
01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:49,120
Speaker 1: We love marketplaces because again my experience with Indie Gergo,

1625
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:52,160
Speaker 1: and we love Frontier Tech, which is kind of cutting

1626
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:57,280
Speaker 1: edge technology companies run by technologists. Now we're generalists, so

1627
01:32:57,320 --> 01:32:59,519
Speaker 1: we have all kinds of different companies, but I'm happy

1628
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:03,760
Speaker 1: to give you a few examples. So one is Galileo.

1629
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 1: So Galileo is from Tom Lee, who built One Medical

1630
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 1: Group One Medical when public about a year ago. Um.

1631
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:15,600
Speaker 1: And you know, Tom is a serial entrepreneur, massively successful,

1632
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 1: and he's really taking the best of telehealth and bringing

1633
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:22,439
Speaker 1: AI to medicine and putting almost like a doctor in

1634
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:26,000
Speaker 1: your pocket that you can have a subscription to telehealth

1635
01:33:26,240 --> 01:33:29,800
Speaker 1: for you know, a minimal cost and then helping to

1636
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:35,240
Speaker 1: uh minimize costs as part of how he's sending folks

1637
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:39,840
Speaker 1: to your home so to minimize referrals or emergency room

1638
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:42,439
Speaker 1: needs anyway. So we were lucky enough to get in

1639
01:33:42,479 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 1: super early with Tom's most recent company, Galileo, and they're

1640
01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:49,559
Speaker 1: doing incredible off to the races. So that's one example.

1641
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:54,479
Speaker 1: Another one in that space would be like Peak get

1642
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:58,480
Speaker 1: Peak today dot com. So they're doing direct to consumer

1643
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 1: for testosterone on health. So a lot of men have

1644
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:06,120
Speaker 1: low testosterone, which is an issue on many levels. So

1645
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:09,519
Speaker 1: it's a chronic condition. They're able to get the blood

1646
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:13,080
Speaker 1: tests writing your home, have the doctor consoles, and then

1647
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:17,679
Speaker 1: provide the relevant medications, et cetera, all through your home,

1648
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:20,520
Speaker 1: which is super interesting. Now in terms of a marketplace,

1649
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:25,200
Speaker 1: obviously we talked about Vincent. Vincent, Uh, you know, is

1650
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:31,200
Speaker 1: the alternative investments marketplace, an aggregator. Another interesting company is Shadow,

1651
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:36,080
Speaker 1: which is helping to end lost starting with lost Dogs. Uh.

1652
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 1: They started in New York City and now they're in

1653
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 1: many different zip codes all around the country. And they're

1654
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:47,040
Speaker 1: really just taking another slice out of Craigslist, where Craigslist

1655
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:50,840
Speaker 1: has been sliced and diced into incredible unicorn companies, whether

1656
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:56,000
Speaker 1: it's you know, truly for real estate, whether it's um

1657
01:34:56,160 --> 01:34:59,240
Speaker 1: match dot com for dating, whether it's Airbnb. But one

1658
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:01,760
Speaker 1: of those things that people still use Craigslist for is

1659
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:04,720
Speaker 1: lost and found. So Shadow is helping to end that.

1660
01:35:05,040 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 1: We have an interesting director consumer company in the furniture

1661
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:12,920
Speaker 1: space called Burrow so Uh Burrow bu r r o W.

1662
01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:16,200
Speaker 1: You know they came out of pen as well. Uh.

1663
01:35:16,240 --> 01:35:18,639
Speaker 1: We got to invest in them when they were doing

1664
01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:21,840
Speaker 1: under three million dollars of revenue for the year and

1665
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:25,320
Speaker 1: you know this past year they did way more than that,

1666
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:31,440
Speaker 1: meaning like over fifty million dollars, which is absolutely incredible. UM.

1667
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:33,519
Speaker 1: And then on the frontier tech side, you know, we

1668
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 1: have some super geeky companies which I love. Uh. One

1669
01:35:37,400 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: is made bot, which is a commercial vacuum cleaner, but

1670
01:35:43,400 --> 01:35:45,599
Speaker 1: where robotics meets AI. I like to call it. If

1671
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:48,800
Speaker 1: Tesla built a vacuum cleaner, this will be it for

1672
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:53,880
Speaker 1: commercial cleaning, so for hotels, for malls, for airports, et cetera.

1673
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:56,679
Speaker 1: They definitely had a dark day when covid started because

1674
01:35:56,720 --> 01:36:00,439
Speaker 1: all their customers were literally hit by COVID. But now

1675
01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:02,839
Speaker 1: that we're slowly getting on the other side, the demand

1676
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:05,880
Speaker 1: for their product is higher than ever. And then another

1677
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:11,360
Speaker 1: is chef Robotics, so they're bringing AI and robotics to

1678
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:15,519
Speaker 1: augment how food gets deployed, whether it's at a food

1679
01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:19,800
Speaker 1: manufacturing facility or potentially at a quick service restaurant like

1680
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:23,200
Speaker 1: a Sweet Green or a Chipotle. So really trying to

1681
01:36:23,320 --> 01:36:26,679
Speaker 1: augment the human interaction there to make sure you're getting

1682
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:30,840
Speaker 1: exactly what you wanted. Um, no extra germs uh and

1683
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 1: no extra you know, food that you didn't want in there.

1684
01:36:33,160 --> 01:36:36,960
Speaker 1: So everything is super cleanly clean, and um, you know

1685
01:36:37,040 --> 01:36:41,160
Speaker 1: done a significant scale. So that's a few examples. If

1686
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:43,439
Speaker 1: those are great, So let me ask you, do you

1687
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:45,360
Speaker 1: ever want to get in on a deal and someone

1688
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:48,680
Speaker 1: else they go with a different company? So do I

1689
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:52,400
Speaker 1: ever lose out on an investment because somebody else gets

1690
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 1: it instead of me? Yes, that does happen. I would say,

1691
01:36:57,160 --> 01:37:01,400
Speaker 1: if that didn't happen, it means I'm not trying hard enough. Um, Luckily,

1692
01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:05,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen that often. Actually, quite the opposite is happening,

1693
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:08,479
Speaker 1: which is the deals are already closed or they're about

1694
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:12,040
Speaker 1: to close, and then we're getting allocation at the very end.

1695
01:37:12,479 --> 01:37:15,720
Speaker 1: Because we're bringing something very unique between Cyrus, myself and

1696
01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:20,400
Speaker 1: our network of advisors. We're really bringing experience from inception

1697
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:23,600
Speaker 1: of starting a company all the way to having significant

1698
01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 1: enterprise value and unicorns. There's not that many people that

1699
01:37:28,360 --> 01:37:31,240
Speaker 1: actually have that experience from all the way from inception

1700
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:34,439
Speaker 1: to significant enterprise value. There's a lot of people that

1701
01:37:34,479 --> 01:37:37,320
Speaker 1: have started inception to seeing some value, and there's a

1702
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:40,160
Speaker 1: lot of people that have joint companies at some value

1703
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:42,679
Speaker 1: and seeing them become rocket ships to be worth tons

1704
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:45,639
Speaker 1: of money. But to go from the very beginning all

1705
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:49,640
Speaker 1: the way through is not that normal. A lot of

1706
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 1: that is isolated in Silicon Valley. It's starting to spread

1707
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:55,559
Speaker 1: out more. But we built out our fund in New

1708
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:59,040
Speaker 1: York and a lot of people value are you know,

1709
01:37:59,080 --> 01:38:02,840
Speaker 1: operator experience. So we're very straight shooters with our New

1710
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:06,200
Speaker 1: York approach. Um, so, yes, does it happen? It definitely

1711
01:38:06,200 --> 01:38:09,400
Speaker 1: has happened. Am I sad? Definitely sad? Do I ever

1712
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:12,960
Speaker 1: like losing? I prefer not. I mean the sports you

1713
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 1: know player in me, uh doesn't like losing. But it

1714
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:18,240
Speaker 1: just means that we got to keep on refining our

1715
01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:21,360
Speaker 1: craft and keep getting better. Okay, so if you invested

1716
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:26,759
Speaker 1: in seventeen, how many did you pass on? A lot? Okay,

1717
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:30,160
Speaker 1: we'll leave it h that. So talking about Vincent to

1718
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:33,840
Speaker 1: what did we are you personally hands on? Yeah? I'm

1719
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:38,000
Speaker 1: very involved. I'm one of the four founders. Um I

1720
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:40,160
Speaker 1: think you said I'm chairman, so I'm executive chairman. So

1721
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:43,240
Speaker 1: I'm definitely involved every day. I actually know what it's

1722
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:45,360
Speaker 1: like to run a company, you know, like I mentioned,

1723
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:48,640
Speaker 1: from from inception to large growth at CEO and I

1724
01:38:48,720 --> 01:38:52,400
Speaker 1: knew that, um, you know, having somebody there with me

1725
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:55,280
Speaker 1: as the day to day CEO, having a great CEO.

1726
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:58,599
Speaker 1: Having a great CTO is really important to me. Um,

1727
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:00,920
Speaker 1: so I'm really excited about the team. It's a killer

1728
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:04,040
Speaker 1: team with you know. For example, our CTO was the

1729
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:07,160
Speaker 1: lead engineer at Mirror that just sold a Lulu lemon

1730
01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:09,920
Speaker 1: for half a billion, so he was hand soldering the

1731
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:13,719
Speaker 1: product together and pulling the software together with team. Um

1732
01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:16,559
Speaker 1: my CEO was the guy who wiped build my investing

1733
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:20,080
Speaker 1: business at Indigogo, so has the perfect background to be

1734
01:39:20,160 --> 01:39:22,880
Speaker 1: building this business. And then my CEO is a serial

1735
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:27,080
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial multiple exits, so really first class team. Uh. The

1736
01:39:27,080 --> 01:39:31,280
Speaker 1: whole team is four founders, two engineers to additional engineers,

1737
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:35,240
Speaker 1: and a designer. So only seven people right now, but um,

1738
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:37,599
Speaker 1: you know there's lots of experience and lots of scale

1739
01:39:37,640 --> 01:39:40,800
Speaker 1: out of that team. Okay, are you doing any marketing?

1740
01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:43,519
Speaker 1: How are people finding out about Vincent or do you

1741
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:45,600
Speaker 1: want to keep it on the down low while you

1742
01:39:45,680 --> 01:39:49,080
Speaker 1: work out the kinks. No, we're definitely marketing. We mostly

1743
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:51,000
Speaker 1: just go on the bob left that's to show and

1744
01:39:51,160 --> 01:39:53,960
Speaker 1: just try to do the podcast as often as possible. No,

1745
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:55,880
Speaker 1: we're definitely doing marketing. I mean, for us, we're doing

1746
01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:58,679
Speaker 1: a lot of content Uh, and we're trying to educate folks.

1747
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:00,800
Speaker 1: So we're putting out a newsletter that everybody should sign

1748
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:03,960
Speaker 1: up at called the Pulse Newsletter. Once a week, you

1749
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:07,280
Speaker 1: get the best information across the entire spectrum of alternam investing.

1750
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 1: It's usually about ten to twenty pieces of content all

1751
01:40:10,120 --> 01:40:13,640
Speaker 1: in one place, which people love. Uh. We're creating our

1752
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:16,200
Speaker 1: own blogs, at least one every two days. We're doing

1753
01:40:16,200 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 1: our own clubhouses. We're creating our own proprietary reports, which

1754
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:21,960
Speaker 1: we're putting out once a month. We're putting out a

1755
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:25,200
Speaker 1: new one tomorrow. Obviously I don't know when this is

1756
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:28,559
Speaker 1: gonna go live, but on April eight we will have

1757
01:40:29,960 --> 01:40:32,559
Speaker 1: who knows the archive, we'll be having a new report

1758
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:36,800
Speaker 1: drop as to how March by the numbers for all

1759
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:40,920
Speaker 1: the entire alternative investments market was. So yeah, we're definitely

1760
01:40:40,960 --> 01:40:43,880
Speaker 1: marketing and we're trying to use education and content as

1761
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:47,000
Speaker 1: the number one approach for sure. Now, if you look

1762
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:50,840
Speaker 1: at similar aggregators or the business model might not be

1763
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:54,680
Speaker 1: the same. But we look at travel, we had you know, Kayak,

1764
01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:58,519
Speaker 1: we have Orbits. Never mind consolidation thereafter, do you have

1765
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:02,360
Speaker 1: a competitor in this field? You believe that there will

1766
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 1: be competitors. Is there a first mover advantage? Um? So,

1767
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean there's not really, uh any competitors that have

1768
01:41:13,120 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 1: any scale. Um. You know, like I mentioned, only five

1769
01:41:16,320 --> 01:41:19,320
Speaker 1: months old, so I would say we're not even that

1770
01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 1: relevant yet. But we're trying to become relevant quickly. We're

1771
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:25,040
Speaker 1: growing quickly. The numbers are adding up fast, which is awesome,

1772
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:28,479
Speaker 1: and users are enjoying their experience. But like I tell

1773
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 1: any of my entrepreneurs when they say I have no

1774
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:33,840
Speaker 1: competition or I expect no competition, if you have no

1775
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:36,320
Speaker 1: competition and you expect no competition, it's because you're going

1776
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:39,720
Speaker 1: after our market. That's irrelevant. So so for sure we

1777
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:44,160
Speaker 1: will have competition. Just like with Indiegoga, we navigated competition,

1778
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:46,200
Speaker 1: and when you have competition, it means there's something to

1779
01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:48,120
Speaker 1: compete for. So I look forward to that, and it

1780
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:51,919
Speaker 1: means that we're going after something that's awesome. Okay, Slava,

1781
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 1: this has been great. I could talk all day to

1782
01:41:54,320 --> 01:41:56,120
Speaker 1: you and go into all the nooks and creaties have

1783
01:41:56,160 --> 01:41:58,880
Speaker 1: a lot more questions, but I think we'll leave it

1784
01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:01,240
Speaker 1: in that for now. Thanks so much for doing this,

1785
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:05,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me so fun. You bet until next time.

1786
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:23,640
Speaker 1: This is Bob left sits h