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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Quite the week here in Washington, striking down today, striking down,

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Speaker 2: as many expected, President Biden's student debt forgiveness Plan six '

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Speaker 2: three ruling another one. The court also ruling today that

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Speaker 2: a Christian wedding website designer has the free speech right

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Speaker 2: to deny customers having same sex marriages. That's what we

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Speaker 2: have here on the final day of the term, and

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Speaker 2: we are waiting to hear from President Biden again today.

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Speaker 2: He's likely to speak a bit later, as our expectation,

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Speaker 2: before he heads off to Camp David, waiting on an

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Speaker 2: official time. Of course, we'll bring his comments to you

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Speaker 2: when he does, but we also have a pretty good

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Speaker 2: idea of what he's gonna say. The President out with

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Speaker 2: the statement a short time ago, just moments ago. The

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Speaker 2: hypocrisy he writes of Republican elected officials is stunning. They

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Speaker 2: had no problem with billions, he writes, and pandemic related

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Speaker 2: loans to businesses, and those loans were forgiven, but when

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Speaker 2: it came to providing relief to millions of hard working Americans,

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Speaker 2: they did everything in their power to stop it. He

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Speaker 2: goes on to refer his remarks later he'll have more

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Speaker 2: on this, but says the fight is not over. We

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Speaker 2: go straight to the Supreme Court right now. Get a

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Speaker 2: moment with Greg Store, Bloomberg News Supreme Court reporter who

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Speaker 2: has been looming large this week as we wind things up.

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Speaker 2: And Greg, we finally got our final opinions here, and

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Speaker 2: this is another big one as the ideology of the court.

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Speaker 2: A second day in a row here weighs against the

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Speaker 2: Biden administration. How significant, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Very significant. You know, up until these last couple of days,

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Speaker 3: I might have said to you, this is a Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court term that showed that this conservative revolution had some

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Speaker 3: limits to it. There hopefully the number of cases where

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Speaker 3: the Conservatives didn't prevail. But in last three days we've

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Speaker 3: certainly seen the muscle of the Republican opponent. Justices three

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Speaker 3: six ' three decisions, all of them very big, kind

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Speaker 3: of sweet being in their own ways, striking down college

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Speaker 3: affirmative action, basically carving out a First Amendment right to

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Speaker 3: not have to comply with anti discrimination laws, and of

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Speaker 3: course striking down President Biden's student loan relief.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you there are a few things to

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Speaker 2: pick through there to your point that the ideology here

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Speaker 2: of the court coming into focus as a lot of

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Speaker 2: people expected, particularly on these two But Greg, it appeared

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Speaker 2: to be two separate opinions to reach conclusion on student

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Speaker 2: debt relief. How did that work?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So there were actually two separate challenges that were

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Speaker 3: before the court, and one of the key questions was

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Speaker 3: did either of these challenge sets of challengers have the

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Speaker 3: legal right to have standing to challenge it? And the

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Speaker 3: one the court tossed out had to do with two

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Speaker 3: borrowers who said we weren't getting enough out of this

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Speaker 3: student loan relief. But the court then in the second opinion,

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Speaker 3: the more Court one said these six states that were

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Speaker 3: challenging it did have the legal right to challenge it

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Speaker 3: because there was some impact on their treasuries, or at

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Speaker 3: least Missouri's treasury it was one of the states. And

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Speaker 3: that was the case where the court went on to stay.

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Speaker 3: And then we decided the Education Department and the President

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Speaker 3: exceeded their authority. They did not that they can forgive

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Speaker 3: loans on a smaller scale, but not this huge.

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Speaker 2: Extent in terms of the First Amendment case here, the

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Speaker 2: website designer, A lot of people thought of this as

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Speaker 2: kind of like the next wedding cake case. Is it

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Speaker 2: different than the one we remember from Colorado?

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Speaker 3: Well, it certainly has a lot of similarities both out

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Speaker 3: of Colorado. Perhaps the biggest difference is the court decided

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Speaker 3: this case on free speech grounds. The case you're remembering

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Speaker 3: involving a baker who didn't want to buy cakes for

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Speaker 3: the same sex weddings, it was more of a religious

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Speaker 3: rights challenge or also included that component to it.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: So this decision in today, by its terms, applies to

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Speaker 3: businesses that engage in expression. What exactly that's going to

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Speaker 3: involve remains to be seen with future litigation, but they're

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Speaker 3: certainly of a piece in terms of efforts to carve

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Speaker 3: out a First Amend an exception to anti discrimination laws.

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Speaker 2: It does seem that that could be precedent setting for

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Speaker 2: a lot of different cases. Here, Greg, do we have

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Speaker 2: a peek inside the next Supreme Court term?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the next Supreme Court term. We just got a

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Speaker 3: number of new cases today that the Court agreed to hear,

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Speaker 3: including another gun case. It's a case involving whether the

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Speaker 3: federal ban for people who are subject to domestic violence

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Speaker 3: restraining orders whether that violates the Second Amendment. And then

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Speaker 3: we've got a number of cases that are going to

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Speaker 3: go to separation of powers and the authority of federal agencies.

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Speaker 3: A new case the Court agreed to hear today attacks

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Speaker 3: the use of in house judges at the Securities and

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Speaker 3: Exchange Commission. A federal appeals court found a number of

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Speaker 3: constitutional problems with that system. If the Biden administration loses

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Speaker 3: that case, that could really weaken the power of the

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Speaker 3: sec and other regulatory agencies.

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Speaker 2: Oh fascinating. The nine month term will begin in October,

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Speaker 2: and I know we'll be talking a bit more than

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Speaker 2: when that time comes. But Greg, we can't thank you

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Speaker 2: enough for all the help this term. In the last

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Speaker 2: couple of days have been super busy for you. Thanks

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Speaker 2: for joining us here as always unsound On he's our

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court expert joining us from the Supreme Court, Greg Store,

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Speaker 2: who I hope is getting a long weekend as we

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Speaker 2: had the voice of Donald Air. I've been looking forward

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Speaker 2: to this conversation and a day like this and following yesterday,

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Speaker 2: the former US Deputy Attorney General argued nineteen times before

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court and is with us now on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: It's great to have you back, sir. I wonder your

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Speaker 2: initial reaction to these last two days, not just today,

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Speaker 2: but these two six to three rulings that really seem

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Speaker 2: to expose once again the ideological lines on this court.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's great to be with you. I agree with

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Speaker 4: the comments I just heard your expert share, and I

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Speaker 4: think the theme here is that this court and the

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Speaker 4: conservative majority on it has some particular things in mind.

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Speaker 4: Some of them have had them in mind for a

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Speaker 4: very long time, and they're going to pursue them, and

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Speaker 4: they Affirmative action, of course, was one in the sites

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Speaker 4: of the Chief Justice and others on the Court for

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Speaker 4: a very long time. The theme of the others, I think,

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Speaker 4: really is the limitation of the powers of the government,

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Speaker 4: even under legislation that seems on its face to give

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Speaker 4: them those powers. The discussion in the majority and dissenting

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Speaker 4: opinions in the student loan case really is incredible in

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Speaker 4: the discussion of the power that was given and to

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Speaker 4: waive or modify requirements of the regulations or of the statute,

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Speaker 4: and somehow or other, the Chief Justice and the six

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Speaker 4: managed to come to the conclusion that that did not

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Speaker 4: include this power just because there was four hundred and

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Speaker 4: thirty billion dollars at issue. The you know, the First

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Speaker 4: Amendment case isn't specifically about the power of the well

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Speaker 4: it is. It's about the power of any government, not

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Speaker 4: just the federal government. And now the very open ended

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Speaker 4: possibility that people who have not just religious objections, which

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Speaker 4: we've seen before in a number of cases, people objecting

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Speaker 4: to on religious grounds, to certain you know, public accommodation

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Speaker 4: or other requirements. But now because I have an opinion

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Speaker 4: or a view or a First Amendment conviction about something,

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Speaker 4: I can't be made to do something that might be

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Speaker 4: described as expressive of my views. Very very limiting on

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Speaker 4: at least potentially very limiting on the capacity of government

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Speaker 4: to pass laws that demand that certain classes of people

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Speaker 4: not be discriminated against. And I want to throw in

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Speaker 4: one other from much earlier in the term, where the

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Speaker 4: Court in the second case involving the Clean Water Acts

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Speaker 4: took even just as Kavanaugh agreed a quite unreasonable reading

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Speaker 4: of the Clean Water Acts to say that it didn't

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Speaker 4: include the ability to regulate wetlands which were right next

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Speaker 4: to or a pertinent to waters of the US that

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Speaker 4: clearly were regulated. So really the court is going after

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Speaker 4: the power of the federal government, even under statutes that

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Speaker 4: seemed to give it, and also to some degree the

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Speaker 4: power of any government to restrict convictions and viewpoint points

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Speaker 4: that people have.

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Speaker 2: See this is why we wanted Donald there. Let's pick

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Speaker 2: through a couple of these the student debt case today.

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Speaker 2: How does the Major Questions doctrine play into this? When

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Speaker 2: the three Liberals and descent say the States lacked the

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Speaker 2: legal right to challenge the plan and that Congress authorized

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Speaker 2: the forgiveness.

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Speaker 4: Plan, Well, it was brought in inferentially in the Chief

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Speaker 4: Justice's opinion as a way of sort of trying to

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Speaker 4: lend some support, which I must say I didn't find

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Speaker 4: very persuasive, but trying to lend some support to the

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Speaker 4: idea that this phrase wave or modify just wasn't clear

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Speaker 4: enough in saying that the Secretary really had the power

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Speaker 4: to wave the requirements of the statute somehow or other.

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Speaker 4: You needed more because why because four hundred and thirty

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Speaker 4: billion dollars is a big deal a lot of money,

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Speaker 4: and they should have had to be clearer than saying

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Speaker 4: that they could waive the requirement. I don't know how

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Speaker 4: you get much clearer, but the Court wants them to

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Speaker 4: be clearer. So they're willing to really go a good

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Speaker 4: long way and do it in lockstep of the six

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Speaker 4: including the Chief in order to limit the powers of

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Speaker 4: the federal government to do I don't know where it

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Speaker 4: all ends to do. What is the question, But really

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Speaker 4: I think the scary thought really for me is that,

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Speaker 4: as my friend Charles Freed, the former Solicitor General, said,

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Speaker 4: this court. He said a few months ago that this

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Speaker 4: court seems to want to repeal the twentieth century. And

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Speaker 4: that's what this feels like to me, is a court

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Speaker 4: that really wants a government that's more like the one

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Speaker 4: we had in the eighteen hundreds.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's quite a statement coming from you. We heard

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Speaker 2: the Chief Justice get to some of your point in

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Speaker 2: arguments that took place earlier this year.

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Speaker 5: Listen in an opinion we had a few years ago

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Speaker 5: by Justice Sclee, he talked about what the word modify means,

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Speaker 5: and he said, modified, in our view, connotes moderate change.

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Speaker 6: He said it might be good English to say that

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Speaker 6: the French Revolution modified the status of the French nobility,

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Speaker 6: but only because there's a figure of speech called understatement

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Speaker 6: and a literary device known as sarcasm. We're talking about

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Speaker 6: half a trillion dollars and forty three million Americans.

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Speaker 2: A salient point.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think if you only had the word modify,

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Speaker 4: it might carry some weight. But I don't know how

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Speaker 4: much weight really. I think a lot of that was

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Speaker 4: embroidery by Justice Scalia on what the word modify means.

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Speaker 4: But when you put the word wave with it, you know,

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Speaker 4: you wave wave or modify boyle boy. If you can

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Speaker 4: wave it, you can wave it.

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Speaker 2: It seems if you see the court turning back the

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Speaker 2: clock essentially is your point? Now that we know about

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Speaker 2: the next term, there's going to be a major new

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Speaker 2: Second Amendment case coming here. They will hear the appeal

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Speaker 2: of a ruling that declared a law in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: four unconstitutional that bars gun possession by people who are

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Speaker 2: subject to a domestic violence restraining order. Where do you

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Speaker 2: think the court goes on that?

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. And

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Speaker 4: one of the there's another interesting dimension of this term

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Speaker 4: that goes with all we've just been talking about. And

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Speaker 4: then and you all acquite are well aware of the

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Speaker 4: Morvy Harper case. Recently the Allen v. Milligan case involving

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Speaker 4: Alabama redistricting, and frankly, people jumped up and down with

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Speaker 4: glee because in Allan v. Milligan, what the court did

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Speaker 4: was really to apply the law as it's existed under

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Speaker 4: the Voting Rights Act. There was great trepidation that the

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Speaker 4: Court was going to roll back once again the requirements

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Speaker 4: of the Voting Rights Act, but they didn't do it.

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Speaker 4: The other day in USB. Texas, the Court basically rejected

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Speaker 4: arguments by states essentially trying to tell the immigration authorities

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Speaker 4: in this administration in what order they have to arrest

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Speaker 4: people and for immigration offenses, and the court rejected that.

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Speaker 4: So the court seems to be picking and choosing the

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Speaker 4: things that it's going to go way far down the

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Speaker 4: road in a quite extreme direction on. And you can

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Speaker 4: come up with a few more, you know. They upheld

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Speaker 4: the Indian Child Welfare Act, which many people thought was

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Speaker 4: going to be in trouble, and President Biden said, this

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Speaker 4: is not a normal court. Well, I think that's right.

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Speaker 4: I think that's right. I think it's not a normal court,

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Speaker 4: and I would be very interested to be a bug

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Speaker 4: on the wall listening to their discussions if they have them,

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Speaker 4: you know, and among the group of five or six,

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Speaker 4: depending on how you count, who looked an awful lot,

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Speaker 4: you know, from Dobbs and other cases, to be in

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Speaker 4: lockstep on a whole array of things, and on these

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Speaker 4: issues we've just been talking about the affirmative action, the

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Speaker 4: student loans, the First Amendment case, and Sacket still in

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Speaker 4: lockstep to take very extreme positions. The one thing I'm

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Speaker 4: hopeful of. It's not a lot to hope for, but

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Speaker 4: I'm hopeful that they've internalized the idea that they can

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Speaker 4: get away with that stuff they think without hopefully destroying

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Speaker 4: public trust too much in the court.

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Speaker 2: Donald Are, we're out of time. I'm afraid. I want

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Speaker 2: to thank you for joining us. As always, this is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. I'll catch

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Speaker 1: the program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 1: the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

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Speaker 7: The Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: Boy, it's been It's been a busy couple of days

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Speaker 2: and it is now over. This is the final day

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Speaker 2: of the term, the final opinions released with a big

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Speaker 2: one here for the Biden administration and not a surprise

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Speaker 2: inside the Beltway. As the court tosses out President Biden's

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Speaker 2: student loan death forgiveness plan. Jeez out with the statement,

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Speaker 2: says the fight is not over and I will have

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Speaker 2: more to announce when I address the nation this afternoon.

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Speaker 2: Remembering November of last year when he made the case

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Speaker 2: for this idea on a legal basis.

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Speaker 8: A Republican special interest and elected officials sue to deny

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Speaker 8: this release, even for their own constituents. But I'm completely

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Speaker 8: confident my plan is legal right now, it's on whole.

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Speaker 8: Because of these lawsuits, well.

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Speaker 2: It's not feeling very legal at the moment, but there

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Speaker 2: are also different avenues that the administration could take, and

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Speaker 2: we're going to be learning more about them as the

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Speaker 2: day rolls on. Let's get into some of this with

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Speaker 2: June Grossow. I'm really glad that June is available in

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Speaker 2: a pretty busy day for her, certainly as the host

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Speaker 2: of Bloomberg Law. She joins us from our studios in

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Speaker 2: New York and June that, you know, much like people

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Speaker 2: were talking loopholes yesterday following the Affirmative Action decision, the

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Speaker 2: big conversation now is, well, what's the plan b for

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden because Democrats don't want him to stop in

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Speaker 2: this hunt. What's he going to be able to do?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 9: It depends on if it's appealed to the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 9: because I mean, you know that this Supreme Court has

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Speaker 9: used this theory and it's called the Major Questions dost

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Speaker 9: and it's a new kind of theory. It just they

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Speaker 9: just invented it about a year ago, and they have

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Speaker 9: used that to hold Biden administration, to constrain the Biden administration,

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Speaker 9: to constrain the powers of agencies. And they did it

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Speaker 9: in this case with the student loans, where the Chief

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Speaker 9: Justice said that the president was taking the place of

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Speaker 9: the legislature. And in this case it seems like the

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Speaker 9: Court is taking the place of the president and the

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Speaker 9: legislature in what they did so. And also even the

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Speaker 9: initial standing to sue, which everyone looked at as being

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Speaker 9: possibly the you know, the barrier that the challengers couldn't

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Speaker 9: get through. That means that you have a stake in

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Speaker 9: the outcome.

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Speaker 1: They used a.

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Speaker 9: Very attenuated theory to reach standing here. So you know,

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Speaker 9: it's a lot to talk about in this case.

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Speaker 2: Well, there certainly is, and there's a lot to talk

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Speaker 2: about this week on the Court June, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we can broaden the conversation anywhere you want here. But

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Speaker 2: this has been a real reminder that six ' three

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Speaker 2: isn't always six ' three. And some of the cases,

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Speaker 2: some of the rulings we saw earlier in this week

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Speaker 2: had people thinking, well, my goodness, this is feeling balanced.

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Speaker 2: Maybe some of these cases have a chance. But in

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Speaker 2: the last two days been highly ideological.

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Speaker 9: You know, it's always at the end of the term.

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Speaker 9: Remember the end of last term, that's when we saw

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Speaker 9: them take away the constitutional right to an abortion. And

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Speaker 9: this term, in two days, the conservative majority ended affirmative action,

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Speaker 9: struck down the student loan relief plan, and delta setback

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Speaker 9: to LGBTQ rights. And I think that they're feeling their power,

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Speaker 9: and you can see that they're not afraid to exercise

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Speaker 9: that power, even in circumstances where a lot of Americans

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Speaker 9: would not be happy with it. And this is at

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Speaker 9: a time when the Court is being viewed with suspicion

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Speaker 9: by a lot of people, where the Court is showing

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Speaker 9: it has ethics problems and that there's nothing that can

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Speaker 9: be done about these problems. The Supreme Court just gets

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Speaker 9: to do the justices no matter what they do, they

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Speaker 9: just go on no kinds of consequences. And I think that,

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Speaker 9: you know, there was a law professor that called this

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Speaker 9: the Yolo Supreme Court because they're going to take advantage

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Speaker 9: of it and they're going to do what they want.

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Speaker 2: There's a you know, both sides have talking points on

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Speaker 2: any issue that we're going to talk about here today June,

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Speaker 2: the RNC kicked out a statement on the ruling today

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Speaker 2: referring to how we will no longer bail out the wealthy.

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Speaker 2: And it's something that Chuck Schumer got to when arguments

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Speaker 2: were held back in February, something that he addressed.

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Speaker 10: Listened, ninety percent of the relief going to out of

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Speaker 10: school borrowers will go to those earning less than seventy

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Speaker 10: five thousand dollars a year. This isn't a handout to

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Speaker 10: the wealthy, far from it. This is critical relief to

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Speaker 10: working in middle class families.

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Speaker 2: Why such a misunderstanding on them.

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Speaker 9: I don't understand because I don't know any wealthy people

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Speaker 9: with student loans. I mean, I know people with student

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Speaker 9: loans who are struggling to pay them, or have been

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Speaker 9: until they had this bit of relief. So I have

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Speaker 9: it's just a way of turning things around, I suppose.

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Speaker 9: But you know, wealthy people don't have student loans for

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Speaker 9: the most part, and this would not be going to them.

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Speaker 9: I mean, there are so many people in this country

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Speaker 9: who are struggling under the weight of student loans, and

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Speaker 9: also you know, graduate loans and law school loans. Those

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Speaker 9: just are astonishing about.

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Speaker 2: The issue of fairness too. Well that and I'll ask

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Speaker 2: you that, by the way, let me qualify that, because

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Speaker 2: we've heard the fairness issue since this first came up.

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Speaker 2: But what about the people who did pay off their loans?

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Speaker 2: What are we supposed to tell them? But there's also

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Speaker 2: the matter of something like sixty million people who got

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Speaker 2: letters saying that their loans were going to be exposed.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean it's hard. I mean, the fairness thing,

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Speaker 9: it's sort of you look back, what about tax breaks

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Speaker 9: for the rich? I mean, is there fairness in every

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Speaker 9: aspect of our life. I don't think so that's the

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Speaker 9: best argument I think that they can use is that

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Speaker 9: weight I had to pay for my loans, but also

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Speaker 9: college costs a lot more now. Graduate school and law

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Speaker 9: school cost a lot more right now. So what they're

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Speaker 9: paying now is compared to what people paid in the

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Speaker 9: past is I think, exponentially different. But that is I

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Speaker 9: think one of the best arguments out there. You know,

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Speaker 9: why make an exception now? You know that's sort of

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Speaker 9: like the argument you have against a lot of entitlement programs.

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Speaker 2: So we have a peek into the next term here

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Speaker 2: looks like the Court will be dealing with a major

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Speaker 2: new Second Amendment case. June, what are you going to

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Speaker 2: be looking at in October?

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Speaker 9: Well, I'm going to take a break first, I hope

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Speaker 9: that's true. You know, I'm going to be looking at

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Speaker 9: whether or not the Court continues to expand in these areas.

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Speaker 9: I mean, last year of last term, we of course

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Speaker 9: had the abortion decision, but also that gun decision, and

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Speaker 9: I'm going to be looking at how they write these opinions.

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Speaker 9: I'm finding that a lot of these so called originalists

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Speaker 9: on the court. You have to look at how sometimes

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Speaker 9: you have two differentists but they come to completely different conclusions.

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Speaker 9: So I'm going to see that. And also, you know,

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Speaker 9: I'm interested in seeing the dynamics on the court and

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Speaker 9: how it's going to play out, because you see a

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Speaker 9: lot of tension we saw this week. You know, justices

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Speaker 9: take the bench and read dissents when they feel really

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Speaker 9: strongly about it. And this week Sonya so Toamayor read

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Speaker 9: from the bench two days in a row, and in

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Speaker 9: her descent she said, not I respectfully descent, which is

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Speaker 9: what they always say. She just said I dissent. And

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Speaker 9: the same with Katanji Brown Jackson. And there was even

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Speaker 9: tension in the in the discussion today in the opinion

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Speaker 9: by Chief Justice John Roberts and Elena Kagan, who are

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Speaker 9: known to get along. So I don't know where they're

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Speaker 9: going as far as that collegial attitude they always claim

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Speaker 9: they have.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you could join us, June. I know you've

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Speaker 2: got a lots to work on here. Listen to Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Law by the Way ten pm week nights and all

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Speaker 2: weekend long here on Bloomberg Radio, and you can of

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Speaker 2: course get the Bloomberg Law the podcast wherever you get

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Speaker 2: your podcast to hear more from June on this This

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Speaker 2: is a pretty important week to be listening to Bloomberg Law.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington as we add the voice

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Speaker 2: of Beth Acres from the American Enterprise Institute, where Beth

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Speaker 2: is a senior fellow and was looking forward to this

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Speaker 2: outcome when it came to a student loan debt relief. Beth,

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Speaker 2: you think the court did the right thing.

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Speaker 11: I think the court did the right thing on two grounds. Obviously,

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Speaker 11: the decision from the court today was about whether or

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Speaker 11: not the administration had the authority to do this. I'm

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Speaker 11: not a lawyer, but I think they made the right

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Speaker 11: call there and saying that he did. But I also

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Speaker 11: think the outcome for the nation is good, which is,

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Speaker 11: you know that we are not going to move forward

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Speaker 11: with what I believe to be a bad policy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and tell me why.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 11: So, you know something that's often missed in these conversations

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Speaker 11: is that we already have relief programs that are in

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Speaker 11: place for the borrowers who are truly struggling. I was

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Speaker 11: listening to the last segment as well. You know, so

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Speaker 11: what ends up happening is that when you layer a

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Speaker 11: broad based forgiveness program on top of safety nets that

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Speaker 11: already exists, the people who are really benefiting from them

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Speaker 11: are those who weren't eligible for the means tested programs

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Speaker 11: that already relieve debt for people who are struggling. So basically,

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Speaker 11: this is a really poorly targeted way of addressing what

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Speaker 11: is a serious problem, which is that some people do

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Speaker 11: have unaffordable debts. There's so much that does need to

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Speaker 11: be done in the Higher ED system, and it just

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Speaker 11: feels like this was a political move that kind of

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Speaker 11: would have exacerbated a lot of the challenges that we

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Speaker 11: do have that are furious, like, for example, in encouraging

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Speaker 11: people to borrow more in the future or allowing institutions

440
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 11: to raise their prices in response to this new implicit

441
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 11: subsidy from the government.

442
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: So how should this country manage an issue that seems

443
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 2: to be undeniable right now? Best other than you know,

444
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: start going to cheaper colleges. Alexandria Costio Cortes tweeted earlier,

445
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: the administration can use the Higher ED Act. She says,

446
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: that was our position from the start to continue loan

447
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: forgiveness before payments resume. What do you want to hear

448
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: from the President later today?

449
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 11: Well, I don't believe that the Higher Ed Act gives

450
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 11: the authority for them to do anything similar to what

451
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 11: was attempted with this cancelation. I think where the President

452
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 11: goes from here, you know, your dress is as good

453
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 11: as mine about the direction he'll take, because you know,

454
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 11: I don't think they have legal authority. But the question

455
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 11: will be whether they pursue another legally dubious strategy or

456
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 11: they kind of come back to the negotiating table with

457
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 11: Republicans and talk about some more nuanced but less like

458
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 11: politically popular ideas for fixing problems. One of the things

459
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 11: the White House is already working on is expanding the

460
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,959
Speaker 11: generosity of the repayment program that already exists for borrowers,

461
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 11: which would actually go a really long way in delivering release.

462
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 11: Some estimates from the Brookings Institution said, under that new regime,

463
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 11: if it goes into place, we'd only get about fifty

464
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 11: cents on every dollar that's lent out through the federal

465
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 11: lending program actually paid back.

466
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 6: So that's a huge.

467
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 11: Amount of relief going out to borrowers under that new system.

468
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 11: You know that would be targeted towards people who are

469
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 11: at the lower end of the earning spectrum.

470
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 12: So that's the.

471
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 11: Direction we should be going making sure that the safety

472
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 11: nets work. There's administrative problems with the ones that we

473
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 11: have today, which is maybe why people don't talk about

474
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 11: them enough, and it's why borrowers don't even know they exist.

475
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 11: So there's plenty of work to do to clean up

476
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 11: that system.

477
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: Bloomberg has been out in front of the court since

478
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 2: the ruling here, Beth, and we've been talking to people

479
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 2: on both sides of the Sabrina Kalasan's, the managing director

480
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: of the Student Debt Crisis Center, was out there and

481
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: we spoke with her just a moment ago.

482
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 13: Listen, for me personally, I can't move out, I can't

483
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 13: afford rent on my own, I can't buy a car,

484
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 13: I can't invest in my own future. So it's something

485
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 13: that for a lot of young people we're paying a

486
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 13: lot of close attention to. When I think it's going

487
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 13: to be a huge issue in the twenty twenty four.

488
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: Election, whether it is in the election here, Beth, I

489
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 2: just wonder, I know this is not an easy or

490
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 2: maybe you don't think it's a fair question. Well, what

491
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: would you tell Sabrina.

492
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 11: Well, I'd say, look, if you're really struggling, you know,

493
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 11: the description of her financial circumstances makes me think she's

494
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 11: probably someone who's eligible to not have to pay back

495
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 11: their loans through existing programs. So I would say her

496
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 11: and anybody who feels that way should reach out to

497
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 11: the servicer for their student loans. Look up on the

498
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 11: part of Education website what programs are available to them,

499
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 11: and they may be pleasantly surprised.

500
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,719
Speaker 2: So this is not going to go away today. As

501
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: I mentioned, the President's going to be talking. I asked

502
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: you what you wanted to hear from him. I just

503
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: wonder if his next plan is going to end up

504
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: in court.

505
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 11: Now, that's a question I have. I mean, I'm not

506
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 11: sure if the best political strategy for him at this

507
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 11: point is to put forth another kind of aggressive proposal

508
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 11: that then does get caught up in court, because then

509
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 11: they don't have to have a resolution of this issue

510
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 11: necessarily before the next election cycle. So I think it's

511
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 11: possible they go that route, maybe even likely, as I'm

512
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 11: sort of thinking out as I'm talking to you here,

513
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 11: but that's definitely a reasonable path forward. From a political

514
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 11: political perspective, I think that's disappointing for Americans because I

515
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 11: think we really are in need of real solutions for

516
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 11: student lending. You know, every day students are taking out

517
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 11: more and more debt in this system that we claim

518
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 11: to be broken, but we're not fixing other than through

519
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 11: these means that are one time fixes that won't even

520
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 11: help the borrowers who are taking out their debt today necessarily.

521
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: So what do you want to see happen then?

522
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 11: I want to see I would love to see the

523
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 11: President come back to the table. Senate and House Republicans

524
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 11: have put forward some really reasonable legislation ideas on how

525
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 11: to reform the safety net to make it safe and

526
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 11: less risky to go to college in this country. I'd

527
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 11: love to see the President and Dens more broadly engage

528
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 11: in that. I think that's probably optimistic to think that

529
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 11: that would be the next step, though.

530
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: Glad you could join us Beth Beth Akers with the

531
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 2: American Enterprise Institute to try to bring some perspective here.

532
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg sound On podcast. Catch us

533
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern on Bloomberg dot Com. The

534
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on

535
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

536
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: As the Supreme Court blocks student loan relief just a

537
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: day after striking down affirmative action six ' three six ' three,

538
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: no big surprises here in Washington, but a lot of

539
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: questions as we dive into these opinions and figure what

540
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: next steps are on both of these issues. We already

541
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: told you that Harvard was exploring its options when it

542
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: comes to affirmative action, and you better believe the president

543
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 2: is when it comes to student loan relief. He's going

544
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: to be speaking just about an hour from now, assuming

545
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: all things around, time before he heads out to Camp

546
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: David on the student life debt story following that ruling today.

547
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: But really looking forward to hearing from David Weston on

548
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: this As you, of course know him as the host

549
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: of Wall Street Week. He spent a good deal of

550
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: time in the Supreme Court clerking for the scotus and

551
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: he's with us now from our studios in New York. David,

552
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: it's great to have you here. Pretty remarkable end to

553
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: this term. I have some specific questions for you and

554
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: some general ones. Where I'll start here because the Court

555
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: has reminded us that elections matter.

556
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's exactly right. And to some extent, Joe, it

557
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,239
Speaker 12: strikes me that the elections matter because they reflect to

558
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 12: some extent the will of at least a lot of

559
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 12: the people. I mean, when you talk about things like

560
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 12: the affront of Action case, the fact is the United

561
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 12: States is pretty badly divided on that. It's not uniform

562
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 12: on one side or the other. So it's not just

563
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 12: the Supreme Court necessarily going off on its own. It

564
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 12: is reflecting a good portion, at least to the American

565
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 12: people's sentiment right now.

566
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: Well, then, what do you make of President Biden yesterday

567
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: as he's leaving the podium in the Roosevelt Room, somebody

568
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: cries out about the court, and he turned around and said,

569
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: this is not a normal court, but it is the

570
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: one that Americans signed up for when they elected Donald Trump.

571
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 7: Yeah.

572
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 12: I'm not sure exactly what the president had in mind.

573
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 12: Certainly he didn't like this result. He'd made that very clear.

574
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 12: I'm not sure what's abnormal, but I think it is

575
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 12: fair to say, and a lot of people have said

576
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 12: this that the Court has become more political. It feels

577
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 12: like it reaches out and reaches into more political issues

578
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 12: than it has in the past, and seems to be

579
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 12: coming down a particular direction. Certainly, that's the perception, and

580
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 12: I must say I don't think it's entirely misguided. In

581
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 12: that case, I guess it's not normal. And since it's

582
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 12: not the court from thirty years ago, sure.

583
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: It's a different court. But to your point, there's nothing

584
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: necessarily abnormal about it. It's continuing to function. And you know, look,

585
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: so were hearing a lot of different stuff, Well maybe

586
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,479
Speaker 2: you'd stick with today for a moment student depth relief.

587
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: Do you see the president having many options here, because

588
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: Democrats are very upset with him for not getting this

589
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: done yet.

590
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 12: Well, the two things I'm sure of is that he's

591
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 12: had his team working on options, because this is not

592
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 12: a huge surprise, shouldn't have been a huge surprise. So

593
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 12: I'm sure they've been going through a lot of options,

594
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 12: and I would be surprised if he doesn't come up

595
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 12: with something, because he clears clearly seems pretty committed to this.

596
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 12: At the same point, the only chance he had was

597
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 12: really on the rather technical issue of standing, which, of

598
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 12: course in one of the cases actually said they don't

599
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 12: have standing because I think many legal scholars thought that

600
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 12: he'd really stretched the meaning of the statute beyond what

601
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 12: a lot of people would say it was reasonable, and

602
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 12: so it wasn't too surprising on the merits as it were,

603
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 12: how the court came out as.

604
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: Far as the affirmative action case goes, we heard from

605
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: the governor of California, and everyone can imagine where Gavin

606
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: Newsom was going to fall on this. But a lot

607
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: of people don't know that California many years ago ended

608
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: affirmative action through a proposition, and the governor spoke about

609
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: the experience the state has had since then. I'd love

610
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: for you to react to this.

611
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 14: For those that are wondering what's going to happen in

612
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 14: their states, they don't only have to look to California

613
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 14: to know exactly what's going to happen. You're going to

614
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 14: see a significant decline African American and Latino in missions

615
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 14: in institutions of higher learning. We had a roughly a

616
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 14: fifty percent decline. Just I have fifty percent decline within

617
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 14: the first three years of Prop two to nine. You

618
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 14: see Berkeley UCLA just last year. Just to underscore the

619
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 14: nature of the world we're living in only about two

620
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 14: hundred and twenty eight African American students were admitted at

621
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 14: Berkeley seven thousand admissions, just two hundred and twenty eight.

622
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 14: I'm very concerned about this. I think you should be

623
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 14: as well. And I'm frankly unsurprised because we have a

624
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 14: Supreme Court that wants to bring us back to a

625
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 14: pre nineteen sixties world.

626
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: Now, I know that was a long soundcut, forgive me.

627
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: I just felt like it was worth playing the whole thing, David,

628
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: because this is such a divisive issue, but it's hard

629
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: to argue with data.

630
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 12: Well, it also really addresses something that the Supreme Court

631
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 12: talked about. Now I must say, it wasn't just California.

632
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 12: The same thing happened in my home state of Michigan,

633
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 12: involved in the University of Michigan, where they had a

634
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 12: eight initiatives and it has had a similar effect on

635
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 12: admissions eight states. Yeah, exactly. And as you know, Joe,

636
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 12: if you look at the Supreme Court opinions, one of

637
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 12: the things that they held out was well, okay, not

638
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 12: based on race, you can do it based on socioeconomic

639
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 12: status and what those statistics suggest. In California and Michigan

640
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 12: and other states. Is it's not all that easy to

641
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 12: really get to where many people think we ought to

642
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 12: be in terms of diversity simply through socioeconomic issues. And

643
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 12: we got to talk to Darren Walker, who's the head

644
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 12: of the Ford Foundation today for Wall Street Work tonight,

645
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 12: and he he has an op ed piece in The

646
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 12: New York Times today which I think is quite powerful.

647
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 12: But he also made it very personal because he is

648
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 12: the product himself of affirmatve action. This is part of

649
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 12: what Darren had to say, Well.

650
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 15: David, I would not be here with you today were

651
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 15: it not for affirmative action. There is no doubt that

652
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 15: an entire generation of African Americans and Latinos in this

653
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 15: country have been propelled forward in heart because of affirmative action.

654
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 15: I'm a proud affirmative action baby. I benefited from living

655
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 15: in a country that believed in my potential and even

656
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 15: though I was a poor kid living in a rural community,

657
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 15: America cheered me on. This country wanted me to win

658
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 15: and succeed.

659
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 2: How about that.

660
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's interesting. I found it very powerful because he

661
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 12: has had the experience himself, and one of the things

662
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 12: he told me was the reaction to his IPEd piece.

663
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 12: The messages he got that disturbed him were not the

664
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 12: ones that disagreed with him, saying that he thought that

665
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 12: this Supreme Court decision did not reflect the values America.

666
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 12: The ones that bothered him were the ones that said,

667
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 12: that's not America anymore. You shouldn't even be expecting that

668
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 12: of America today. He said, those are the ones that

669
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 12: really bothered him. Young people who really are almost giving

670
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 12: up on some of the values that many people have

671
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 12: treasured over the years.

672
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: So there's another ruling today as we spend time with

673
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: David Wesson, and I look forward to that full conversation

674
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: on Wall Street Week. But it was this LGBTQ case

675
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: ruling the Christian wedding website designer has the free speech

676
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 2: right to deny customers who are having same sex marriages.

677
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 2: And I saw tweet from a columnist named David Bernstein.

678
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: He writes, a little weird that a private business can

679
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 2: choose to deny a customer because they're a member of

680
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 2: a protected class, but a private university cannot choose to

681
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 2: accept a customer because they're a member of a protected class.

682
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: When you think of that.

683
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 12: There is some irony there of course, one of the

684
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 12: universities involve is ures in North Carolina, which is last

685
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 12: time I checked with the public university, and Harvard gets

686
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 12: a lot of money. But there is a certain tension

687
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 12: here on what we're allowing agents individual actors, whether the

688
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 12: universities or corporations or local companies to be able to

689
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 12: do and not do. There is some in consistency there,

690
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 12: although I will say with respect to the decision today,

691
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 12: it followed pretty much on the heels. You remember that

692
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 12: wedding cake case about three years ago or so, so again,

693
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 12: it was not entirely a shock. It is a direction

694
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 12: that the Court is heading, and it's not being very

695
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 12: subtle about the question is what are there workarounds?

696
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 7: Right?

697
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we've all been learning about the major questions doctrine

698
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: in this term, and it's a pretty big deal. It's

699
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: really sort of the intellectual core of what we're talking

700
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 2: about this week, isn't it? Well?

701
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 7: It is?

702
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 12: And the major questions doctor really largely has to do

703
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 12: with how much can be read into statutes? How specific

704
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 12: does Congress have to get And a recurrent theme of

705
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 12: this majority in this court is saying, you've got to

706
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 12: be very explicit now that is a way of dialing

707
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 12: back on some of things that some regulatory agencies have

708
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 12: done and even some courts have interpreted to say, it's

709
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 12: just got to be a lot more explicit than you thought.

710
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 12: So again, major questions, doctrine has been around, has been

711
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 12: used very much. So to go back to your question

712
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 12: about President Biden, I'm not sure it's fair to call

713
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 12: this abnormal, but it is decidedly in a different direction

714
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 12: from what we've had over the last generation.

715
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: That's great perspective and important for our listeners to absorb here.

716
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: I think people are going to be spending a lot

717
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 2: of time thinking about some pretty heavy stuff this weekend.

718
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: And I wondered, David, what else you have for us

719
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: on Wall Street Week's day.

720
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 16: Oh?

721
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 12: Well, actually, we have the CFO, the chief financial officer

722
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 12: of Blackstone and fellow named Michael Jay who is absolutely

723
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 12: fascinating about where the economy is, where business is, and

724
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 12: what he's seeing in terms of his deals. And we

725
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 12: also have Shila Bear. You know Shila Bear used to

726
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 12: run the FBI c because we had those bank stress tests,

727
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 12: remember those this week where the banks came out all right,

728
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 12: really asking what did they tell us, if anything? And

729
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 12: would they have addressed some of the questions we had

730
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 12: with things like Silicon Valley Bank. So that's what we're

731
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 12: having up tonight.

732
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 2: Looking forward to it. It's pretty amazing here at end

733
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: of the month, end of the quarter. It's the end

734
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 2: of the first half. Wall Street reaching new highs. A

735
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: couple of months ago, people would have looked at you

736
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: like you were from Mars if you'd told them that.

737
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 12: Well, by the way, Joe, one of the things, if

738
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 12: some people have pointed out, is if you went back

739
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 12: to January one, you would have predicted China would be

740
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 12: way coming back really dramatically right, and our stock market

741
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 12: would be downt It's exactly the.

742
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 2: Little exact opposite, right, reminding us that no one really

743
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 2: ever knows what they're talking.

744
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 12: Ay, sure, Joes, I'll go to the front of that line.

745
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: Well, you know, always with a dose of humility, the

746
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: great David Weston. I appreciate it, sir, Thanks so welcome back,

747
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: by the way, with Misty while you're gone, the host

748
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 2: of Wall Street Week, former Scotis Clerk. Got the real

749
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: thing here, guys, And we're hearing from a lot of

750
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 2: diverse voices and some awfully smart people here, and I'm

751
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 2: honored to share time with them on such an important day.

752
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

753
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

754
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

755
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 7: The Bloomberg Business App.

756
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

757
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

758
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: Another day, another Supreme Court loss for the Biden administration,

759
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: as the Court throws out the president's plan to forgive

760
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 2: student loan debt back. When arguments were held in February,

761
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: the Court's conservative majority it was very skeptical of the

762
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: legality of the plan, reminding you were talking about four

763
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: hundred billion dollars in loans here, Justice Neil Gorsich from

764
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: that day in February.

765
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 17: People who've paid their loans, people who don't have planned

766
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 17: their lives around not seeking loans, and people who are

767
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 17: not eligible for loans in the first place, and that

768
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 17: a half of trillion dollars is being diverted to one

769
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 17: group of favored persons over others.

770
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: We have a lot to talk about with our panel.

771
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis are with

772
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: us on this Friday before the fourth of July weekend. Guys,

773
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: it's great to have you here in Genie. I'll start

774
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: with you not only as a political analyst, but of

775
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 2: course somebody who works in academia. Genie, if you don't

776
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: already know this, and you should, as a political science

777
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 2: professor at Iona University. This is of course not what

778
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: President Biden wanted to see happen, Genie. But it is

779
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 2: what you expected, isn't it.

780
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 18: It is what I expect, and I think Elena Kagan.

781
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 18: I'm an enormous fan of Elena Kagan. She is a

782
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 18: brilliant writer and I think her descent is so well

783
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 18: worth reading. We heard her say the same thing in

784
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 18: the Oral Arguments. They are putting this all under this

785
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 18: major Questions doctrine, which you just talked about. It's a

786
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 18: new doctrine. It's fuzzy. It was first used in the

787
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 18: EPA case in June, and at that time she said

788
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 18: this magically appeared, and it's a get out of text

789
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 18: free card because if you look at that doctrine and

790
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 18: you look at the Heroes Act, it is very clear

791
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 18: if there is a national emergency, which a pandemic clearly is,

792
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 18: the executive can act and that is what happened here.

793
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 18: For the conservatives to now come in and say that

794
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 18: the Act is not clear enough, how much clearer could

795
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 18: they have been? This is a way for conservatives to

796
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 18: read into the law, the decision, and the outcome of

797
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 18: a policy they want. This is not the work of

798
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 18: people who are conservative or restrained, and it is well

799
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 18: worth reading her concerns because it's not about the policy.

800
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 18: It's about who gets to decide, and that should be

801
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 18: the executive and Congress who wrote the law.

802
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot here. Rick Davis was argued politically

803
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: at least, you know, among politicians here in Washington is

804
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: an issue of fairness. How do you think the Court

805
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: did with this opinion?

806
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 16: Look, I mean they create their own level of fairness.

807
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 16: You know, we've heard from Don Ayers earlier about how

808
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 16: this court has sort of balanced some of their opinions,

809
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 16: you know that have surprised people, including Biden, saying that

810
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 16: this court is different. I mean, I think everybody is

811
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 16: coming to that conclusion after this week's activities. So the

812
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 16: real question is, I think you know, where do they

813
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 16: go from here because some of these new cases they're

814
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 16: taking up, especially the guns case, is going to continue,

815
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 16: you know, change the culture in America, and this is

816
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 16: the impact is going to be felt for a long time.

817
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 16: The question is, too, what do Democrats want to do

818
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 16: about it?

819
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 7: Right?

820
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 16: Do they want to act in Congress to change things?

821
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 16: Nancy Pelosi said when the original student loan deal was

822
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 16: approached that it should be done by Congress. So it's

823
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 16: nothing new that debate, but they're going to need some

824
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 16: votes and that means the election is very consequential to

825
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 16: how they treat this ongoing court.

826
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 2: Well, let's get into the next steps here, because we

827
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: are going to hear from President Biden before he heads

828
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: out to Camp David a little bit later on today.

829
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: It's unclear exactly what remedies he's going to suggest. The

830
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: statement from the White House he called this unthinkable. Today's

831
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: decision disappointing, but he says we should not lose sight

832
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 2: of the progress we've made and that he will have

833
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 2: more to announce. Use the word announce, he says when

834
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: I address the nation this afternoon. Tweet from Alexandria Costio

835
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: Cortez Genie writes It's very important to note this ruling

836
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: does not remove Biden's ability to pursue student loan forgiveness.

837
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: The administration, she says, can use the Higher Ed Act

838
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: our position from the start to continue loan forgiveness before

839
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: payments resume. They should do so asap. That would not

840
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 2: obviously be Congress writing new legislation there, Genie, would it work.

841
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 18: They could give it a try. I have no doubt

842
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 18: it would be challenged in court and we would be

843
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 18: back here in a year or two. Again, we do

844
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 18: know that Biden has been meeting with his senior team

845
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 18: since the decision came out, and they are going to

846
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 18: address what they hope to do be next steps. And

847
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 18: the reality is is that politically, the Biden administration has

848
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 18: always seen, regardless of the decision, this as a win

849
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 18: for him. And what they're going to try to do

850
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 18: now is continue to tell the American public that while

851
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 18: the MAGA Republicans will stand up for business, they will

852
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 18: throw you under the bus. You will pay back, businesses won't,

853
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 18: and they will continue to make this case. And you're

854
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 18: going to continue to see what we heard from Schumer

855
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 18: today and you just read Alexandri Casio Cortez. This maga

856
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 18: right activist wing of the court, and they are engaged

857
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 18: in trying to destroy our way of life. They have

858
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 18: only big business on their minds, and that's what he's

859
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 18: going to be talking about and taking steps to protect

860
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 18: loans if he can.

861
00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: No, we've heard some pretty heavy stuff already this out

862
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: and I expected that to here. Donald Aair talk about

863
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: the court was really something to suggest, Rick that this

864
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 2: court wants to turn us back to the eighteen hundreds.

865
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if you have a thought on that.

866
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: But the idea as well that the president thinks this

867
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 2: is not a quote unquote normal court, I'm not I'm

868
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: not really sure what normal means.

869
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 16: Well, I'm taking normal as saying that they give and

870
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 16: they take away, you know, affirmative action, student loan forgiveness,

871
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 16: LGBTQ rights. You know that obviously issues dobbs that this

872
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 16: administration doesn't like. But how about you know, election law

873
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 16: theory in the Alabama redistricting case and immigration in child welfare.

874
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 16: I mean, like they have no complaints about that, So

875
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 16: I think this is.

876
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 2: A little bit overblown.

877
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 16: There's no question that this court is not just looking

878
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 16: at precedent. They're looking at where we live in the

879
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 16: world today, and they're making decisions based on the current situation,

880
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 16: the current issues that are brought to the court. I

881
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 16: don't think that's significantly different than any court we've seen

882
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 16: in the last fifty years, So I don't think we're

883
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 16: looking so far back. But it is a challenge, and

884
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 16: I think this court has put some real key political

885
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 16: questions on the table that politics is going to have

886
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 16: to start to look at and candidates are going to

887
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 16: have to start to address. You'll notice there's been a

888
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 16: very quiet reaction to all this, you know, amongst the

889
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 16: Republican presidentibles.

890
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Jeanie. I'm going to give you a

891
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 2: chance to take a swing at that. What does Joe

892
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: Biden mean? Did he choose the right word there? Not

893
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 2: in normal court when this is the exact court the

894
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 2: Americans bought when they elected Donald Trump.

895
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 18: Yeah, I think he did choose the right word politically

896
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 18: for that. It's something we keep hearing from him, which

897
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 18: is to say these are extremist. I think one of

898
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 18: the things that many Democrats believe, and as we look

899
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 18: towards the election and they try to gin up the base,

900
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 18: is this view that John Roberts has lost control of

901
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 18: the car that it has gone in the driver's seat.

902
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 18: Now you've got gorsuch, Alido and Thomas and they are

903
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 18: driving the car out of control, because this is not

904
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 18: in many of these cases where an incrementalist like John

905
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 18: Roberts would have gone. So I think he's going to

906
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 18: keep contrasting a normal court and a normal conservative court

907
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 18: that is should be restrained, versus what he's seeing as

908
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 18: a MAGA court. And I would just take exception to

909
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 18: what Donald are said. I think it's a great idea

910
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 18: that they want to turn things back, but I think

911
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 18: the reality is what they want to do is replace

912
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 18: their own policy judgments for the judgments of Congress and

913
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 18: the executive branch. And that doesn't necessarily mean turning back

914
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 18: to the eighteen nineteen hundreds. It means how they see

915
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 18: the world today, and they want to replace those views

916
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,879
Speaker 18: with their own and move the car forward. And that's

917
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 18: where I think Kagan's descent in the student loan case

918
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 18: is so well worth reflecting on.

919
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: I wondered yesterday Rick, if we were going to hear

920
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 2: a lot of talk about court packing, if Democratic lawmakers

921
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: who ended up on cable news might go there. President

922
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: might go there. He was asked on MSNBC in this

923
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: sit down interview that he had with Nicole Wallace. He

924
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: called it a mistake.

925
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 8: Listen, before I got elected, while I put together a

926
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,439
Speaker 8: group of constitutional scholars, do you try to expand the court,

927
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 8: which I think is a mistake.

928
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 7: After all that, the judgment was that that.

929
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 8: Doesn't make sense because it can become so politicized in

930
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 8: the future.

931
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 2: I have Democrats walked away from this rick.

932
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 16: You know, I did a word search on it right

933
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 16: before the show started today and it's zero shows up.

934
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 2: Isn't that something?

935
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 16: Yeah, it's really quite significant, I think because two years

936
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 16: ago that's all that people were talking about. You have

937
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 16: the run up to Dobbs and then the Dobbs decision.

938
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 16: With all due respect to everything that's happened, this week

939
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 16: was much more significant of an impact. We saw protests

940
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 16: in the streets, we saw every politician making statements. So

941
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 16: compared to where we were a year ago and two

942
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 16: years ago, it seems to me people are actually starting

943
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 16: to get used to this court. They may not like

944
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 16: the decisions making, but they're certainly not reacting the way

945
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 16: they have in the past.

946
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 2: Isn't that something we only have thirty seconds before we

947
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: get an update on the news. Genie is court packing

948
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 2: out of the Democratic vocabulary this campaign.

949
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 18: I think it is for political reasons. They want to

950
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 18: use this court. They're going to do what Nixon did

951
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 18: in sixty eight. Run against this court. This court does

952
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 18: not represent you. It's bad for you. If they change

953
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 18: the court. They can't make that case. So it's out

954
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 18: of contention because it's working for Democrats. They think as

955
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 18: they moved to twenty four.

956
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: This is pretty heady stuff in a conversation you won't

957
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: hear anywhere else. Today on the radio, Rick Davis and

958
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano. Everybody, you're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast.

959
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 2: Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern.

960
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

961
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 7: The Bloomberg Business App.

962
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

963
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

964
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: One. Thing that we noticed pretty quickly after the Supreme

965
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 2: Court ruling yesterday is the inbox got stuffed. Presidential candidates,

966
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 2: congressional candidates, everybody trying to raise money on this, and

967
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 2: of course it's a big day for doing so, big

968
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 2: deadline tonight at the end of the quarter here for fundraising.

969
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: So everybody's throwing something at all of this is Joe

970
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 2: Biden even got Barack Obama involved.

971
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 8: Here's five reasons why I'm asking you to donate five

972
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 8: dollars to my campaign with some help or friend.

973
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 7: Hey, Barack, hiy Joe, you see man.

974
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 2: Good to see you back together again, just to raise

975
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: money one more time. As we reassemble our panel, Genie

976
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: Schanzano and Rick Davis are with us Bloomberg Politics contributors.

977
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 2: There's a lot to raise money on right now, Rick,

978
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 2: and as far as Republican primary candidates are concerned, this

979
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 2: is going to go a long way to figuring out

980
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 2: who ends up winds up on a debate stage in August.

981
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 7: Isn't it.

982
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: No, that's right.

983
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 16: I mean, the idea of a money primary has been

984
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 16: around a long time. But since the RNC makes a

985
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 16: requirement that you got to have forty thousand discrete donors

986
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 16: and I think it's twenty thousand of them and you

987
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 16: know half those states, has really raised the bar on

988
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 16: the quote money primary. And I know that probably half

989
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 16: the field is scrambling right now to get every penny

990
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 16: they can and literally I've gotten solicitations for send me

991
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 16: one dollar.

992
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: It's oh, I need to qualify to be on the

993
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: debate stage.

994
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 16: And I mean I honestly, it's not about raising money anymore.

995
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 16: It's about just getting on that dang stage.

996
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 2: But do you believe Ronald McDaniel sticks with the criteria

997
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 2: here because a lot of candidates are complaining about it,

998
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 2: and it's clear that they are not all going to

999
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 2: take the pledge. For instance, does the money peace stay

1000
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: in place in the polling requirement.

1001
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 16: She's going to disenfranchise more than half the field in

1002
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 16: the first or maybe first two debates. So that's a

1003
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:49,959
Speaker 16: decision they're going to have to make as to whether

1004
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 16: they think that's an interesting debate. And if Donald Trump

1005
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 16: doesn't show, what are they going to have four people

1006
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 16: on the stage who've qualified and know Donald Trump. I mean,

1007
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 16: with all due respect to the RNC, I don't know

1008
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 16: who's going.

1009
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 2: To watch that debate, So maybe not so much, Genie,

1010
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 2: how important is this time for Joe Biden. He's going

1011
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 2: to the biggest voice he's really got out there as

1012
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: a surrogate and that's Barack Obama. It seems pretty early

1013
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 2: for that.

1014
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,720
Speaker 18: It does to call in the big guns like Barack Obama.

1015
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 18: But I do think this is critically important because as

1016
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 18: we've looked at his poll numbers, they are you know,

1017
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 18: his approval rating remains very low, and so he has

1018
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 18: some challenges. So I think for that reason, and also

1019
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 18: of course he has some competition out there like RFK Junior,

1020
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 18: who is showing in the polls. So I think they

1021
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 18: want to show sort of knock out the competition and

1022
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 18: show that he has the support both the money and

1023
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 18: the polls to move this forward without much of a competition.

1024
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 18: And you know, I think just to add onto the RNC,

1025
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 18: I think they may also get some pushback from voters

1026
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 18: who are fatigued by the weird and constant emails. I

1027
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 18: was struck by Tim Scott had an email basically apologize

1028
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 18: I'm so sorry to ask again, and you know, it

1029
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 18: reminded me when I have to go out and sell

1030
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 18: girl Scout cookies. It's a painful thing to ask for money,

1031
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 18: so God bless these candidates who do it. It's tough

1032
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 18: and the RNC may need to take a step back.

1033
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 2: On that there's a great story on the terminal about it.

1034
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,959
Speaker 2: They mentioned that Tim Scott email and another one from

1035
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: Elissa Slotkin out with a long email. She's running for

1036
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 2: this Michigan Senate seat. And I guess it's the honesty

1037
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,720
Speaker 2: idea here taking a shot at some of the phony

1038
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,399
Speaker 2: deadlines that people throw out there, She writes, Our goal

1039
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 2: is to give you the full context of why these

1040
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 2: actual deadlines are important. The sky will not fall if

1041
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 2: you do not contribute, the country will not descend into chaos,

1042
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 2: but you will help us compete. It's a good approach.

1043
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 7: Rick.

1044
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,919
Speaker 16: Well, Look, every election cycle on the fundraising side has

1045
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 16: its trends, right, and now the trend is, look, I

1046
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 16: apologize for having to ask you for money, but it's

1047
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 16: the only way I'm going to get elected. I actually

1048
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 16: not sure that's a great trend. I think you want

1049
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 16: to ask people for money because you're going to do something.

1050
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,879
Speaker 16: And I think you know, with the kind of month

1051
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 16: we've had, the idea that all of these aren't focused

1052
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 16: on these various Supreme Court decisions, and for Republicans, you know,

1053
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,760
Speaker 16: running for a victory lap and saying this is why

1054
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 16: we raise money so that we can put people like

1055
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 16: this into office.

1056
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: Who can make this kind of change.

1057
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 16: I think that's a much more compelling argument than Hey

1058
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 16: give me a buck so I can get on a stage.

1059
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Ron De Santis kicked out an appeal urging people

1060
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 2: to donate because the fundraising total, he says, could be

1061
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 2: a tipping point for his bid. And I wonder your

1062
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 2: thoughts on DeSantis and Trump at this point, we know

1063
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 2: Trump's been raising an enormous amount of money on the indictments.

1064
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: Ronda Santis, I'd love to know your expectation. And I'll

1065
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 2: point to a new ad that the Trump campaign has

1066
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 2: out there. It's basically just a composite an edit of

1067
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 2: how many times Rond de Santis refers to his state

1068
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 2: of Florida while on a stage in New Hampshire. This

1069
00:54:58,520 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 2: is just a take Forda.

1070
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,879
Speaker 19: I have a unique vantage point as governor finzn come

1071
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 19: to my free state of Florida. I was born and

1072
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 19: raised in Florida, and I never remember seeing a single

1073
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 19: California license plate in the state of Florida.

1074
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 2: Florida.

1075
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 19: I met people in Florida, and I can cite your

1076
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 19: statistics about Florida. If they are going to greener pastures

1077
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 19: than number one landing spot is the Free State of

1078
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 19: Florida's Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida.

1079
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 2: We know he's down in the polls, Genie, is he

1080
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 2: going to be down on the fundraising?

1081
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 18: Joe Matthew, where is he from again?

1082
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 2: I'm so cincited. I think it's Florida.

1083
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 18: I think it's Florida. You know, I think he is

1084
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 18: pushing hard. We have to give our friends at political

1085
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 18: a kudos for Jessica Piper, noting the three times last

1086
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 18: week he had a subject line, do not tell my

1087
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 18: children that men can get pregnant. That's quite a way

1088
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 18: to try to raise to raise a funding. You know,

1089
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 18: it does catch your eye when they come through. But

1090
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 18: you know, he is really struggling, and I think he's

1091
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 18: we talked about this earlier in the week. If he's

1092
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 18: got to get some he's got to make some headway

1093
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,760
Speaker 18: in New Hampshire, and so I think he is advised

1094
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 18: to focus a little bit more on New Hampshire and

1095
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,439
Speaker 18: Iowa voters and a little less on what he's done

1096
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 18: in Florida.

1097
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 2: Rick, what's your thought here, how important will it be

1098
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,399
Speaker 2: for Ron de Santis to show that he can pull

1099
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 2: in money?

1100
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1101
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 16: Look, I mean he's been an avid fundraiser and has

1102
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 16: over one hundred million dollars you know in his super pack,

1103
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 16: so he's he's not the one in this field. I think,

1104
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 16: who has to show that he can and raise large

1105
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,399
Speaker 16: amounts of money to keep up with Donald Trump.

1106
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's going to.

1107
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 16: Probably raise more money than anybody else because he was

1108
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 16: a former president. He has a bigger network, and who

1109
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 16: knew that getting indicted would actually be a fundraising strategy.

1110
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 16: But the reality is, I think the DeSantis machine, he

1111
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 16: gets a lot of large donor support, and the question

1112
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 16: is going to be is he digging in to some

1113
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 16: of this small donor fundraising that Donald Trump's been so

1114
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 16: prolific about.

1115
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 2: It's right? Does he say Florida too much New Hampshire?

1116
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 2: Is that a thing?

1117
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 16: I think anytime you say you're a state outside of

1118
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 16: New Hampshire or than New Hampshire, it's a thing. I

1119
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 16: really questioned the judgment.

1120
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 2: Just making sure with Rick Davis and Genie Shanzino are

1121
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 2: deep analysis here on sound On, We're gonna stick with

1122
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 2: Rond de Santis for a moment because he's eaten the

1123
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: coal fired pizza at Grimaldy's. On Fox, It's Next with

1124
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 2: Rick and Jeanie. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.

1125
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

1126
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

1127
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

1128
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

1129
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 2: Donald Trump probably could never have imagined it happening when

1130
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 2: he told Sean Hannity recently on Fox that without his endorsement,

1131
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 2: Ron De Santis never would have been the governor before.

1132
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 7: Couldn't have never gotten a nomination.

1133
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 2: He would be working in either a pizza parler place

1134
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 2: or a office right now, okay, and he wouldn't be

1135
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 2: very hassful a pizza parlor place, which is exactly where

1136
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 2: we found DeSantis yesterday while he was raising money in

1137
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: New York. He went to Grimaldi's. It appeared on Jesse

1138
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 2: Waters news show it used to be Tucker Carlson's program,

1139
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 2: and he talked to the owners about the attack on

1140
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 2: coal and wood fired pizza ovens we told you about

1141
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 2: earlier this week. The draft rules by the city's Environmental

1142
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 2: Protection Agency.

1143
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 19: Here he is so in Florida when they went after

1144
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 19: the gas stoves, we just made gas stoves tax free

1145
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 19: in Florida, no sales tax. We will do something similar

1146
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 19: for these coal fired ovens. And so if we need

1147
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 19: New York City pizza to come down to Florida.

1148
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 7: We're going to roll out the red carpenter. Thank you,

1149
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 7: going on, all right, just let her rip like this.

1150
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 2: And he's putting the pizza in the oven. They love it.

1151
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 2: He's got the peel out there going in the coal oven.

1152
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano. It's very New York. But if you want

1153
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 2: to win over Tucker Carlson's audience, do you do that

1154
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 2: on Jesse Waters New show?

1155
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 18: And do you do that in a suit and tie?

1156
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: He did have a tie.

1157
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 18: It was very awkward. It was cringeworthy. I think it's

1158
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 18: going to encourage Donald Trump to call him meatball ron again.

1159
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 18: So you know, he's got to be very careful. And

1160
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 18: don't even remind us about eating pudding with his fingers

1161
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 18: because that would come up as well.

1162
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 2: I've seen references to that frequently here in the doom scroll.

1163
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 2: This morning on Twitter, Rick is eating pizza live on TV,

1164
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 2: even without a fork, a faux pas for a presidential candidate.

1165
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 16: No, pete, you go to Philadelphia, you better have a

1166
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 16: cheese steak nonuts every chance you can. I mean, you

1167
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 16: know it's a political diet, right, You're not supposed to

1168
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 16: eat healthy food. You don't go to get a charcouterie platter,

1169
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 16: that's for sure, or a.

1170
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 2: Crew de tay as someone learned in the midterms. But

1171
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 2: is that exactly same question though? Is that fair ground?

1172
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 2: Now you go on Jesse Waters Show, even though Tucker

1173
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 2: Carlson's people are still worked up.

1174
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think that the page has been turned and

1175
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 16: Fox has its own audience and that's who he's appealing to.

1176
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 2: Great conversation as always with Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzino

1177
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 2: are good friends here and the best analysts in the business.

1178
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,439
Speaker 2: I hope you both have a great holiday. I'm Joe

1179
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 2: Matthew in Washington, where I want pizza. A lot more

1180
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 2: to follow here on this important day in the nation's capital,

1181
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 2: New sing Thanks for listening to the Sound on podcast.

1182
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

1183
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 2: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. And you can

1184
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one

1185
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 2: pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.