Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, and welcome robes and TJ here and Bachelor
Speaker 1: Nation stand up robes. You're excited. Season twenty eight of
Speaker 1: The Bachelor just launched. His name is Joey. But as
Speaker 1: Emma just explaining our wonderful producer here, who is twenty
Speaker 1: two years old. I say that because it's relevant to
Speaker 1: most of the conversations we have about Emma. She said, no,
Speaker 1: it's not Joey. It's hot Joey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's hot, that's what she told us. Yes, he
Speaker 2: plays tennis and he's hot.
Speaker 3: The tennis guy.
Speaker 1: But it's still remarkable. Whether you love it, hate it,
Speaker 1: like it, indifferent to it, it's a phenomenon that's been
Speaker 1: around since two thousand and two, now twenty eight seasons
Speaker 1: of The Bachelor, twenty seasons of The Bachelorette.
Speaker 2: I believe it is, yeah, and it's entertaining. Also even
Speaker 2: Bachelor in Paradise, which might be my favorite iteration of
Speaker 2: the franchise, but I actually was looking it up today.
Speaker 2: It is remarkable how many relations and ships, marriages, engagements,
Speaker 2: children were born from this show. So it's yes, it's
Speaker 2: fun to watch, but it actually has produced fairly impressive results.
Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised by it.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I was thrown off as we were getting
Speaker 1: ready today because this is a Bachelor themed I shouldn't say,
Speaker 1: as a Bachelor themed we have one of the most popular,
Speaker 1: most famous, most talked about bachelors in the franchise history
Speaker 1: sitting in the room with us. We were going to
Speaker 1: talk to mad James here in the second he's sitting
Speaker 1: here with a big old smile on his face. But
Speaker 1: to you, I didn't realize when I'm looking up the
Speaker 1: success rate of the Bachelor franchise, I'm looking to see
Speaker 1: how many people on the Bachelor got married, I mean
Speaker 1: on the Bachelorette. I didn't realize that the numbers are
Speaker 1: inflated because they do count Bachelor in Paradise. I didn't
Speaker 1: even know, of course it counted.
Speaker 4: No, I didn't know.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, educate yourself. No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2: No, But I was really impressed by the couples that
Speaker 2: are still together.
Speaker 3: Those numbers are still low.
Speaker 2: We should say, well, I mean, maybe my expectations were low.
Speaker 1: Actually I was surprised. I shouldn't say. They haven't had
Speaker 1: as many seasons of the Bachelor in Paradise, so they
Speaker 1: do have a pretty good percentage as far as folks
Speaker 1: staying together, getting together, getting married, which is great, but
Speaker 1: the others don't have as great a track record. And
Speaker 1: that's fine, but it's it's still no matter what, I
Speaker 1: am blown away. I've only watched one season, full season of.
Speaker 4: Either or Off.
Speaker 1: It was a Bachelorette as a season I watched Have
Speaker 1: You Committed To? A full season before.
Speaker 2: The first one with Trista and Ryan. I was really
Speaker 2: into that all those years ago. And then obviously, for
Speaker 2: what we did for a living, we were constantly interviewing contestants,
Speaker 2: so I watched episodes here and there, but for the
Speaker 2: full season. In fact, for a while, my kids, even
Speaker 2: when they were younger, we would have fun watching it
Speaker 2: as a family. So it actually is family viewing because
Speaker 2: you're learning about relationships and how people interact with each other.
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting see that. I don't think it gets
Speaker 1: credit for what you just said. People often it's just reality,
Speaker 1: it's trash TV, or this isn't how you're supposed to
Speaker 1: find love? How can any of this work out? But
Speaker 1: I think you hit on something. No matter what I think,
Speaker 1: we're all still we want love to work. We are rooting.
Speaker 1: We have this hope in this no matter what, and
Speaker 1: then we get cynical later. Sure, but I think it's original.
Speaker 1: We are rooting for people and we were rooting for love, right.
Speaker 2: I totally agree, And I find that I learn about
Speaker 2: communication when I'm watching these shows. Maybe that sounds silly,
Speaker 2: but I do think people's emotions when I'm watching it.
Speaker 2: It's legit, it's real. It mirrors life.
Speaker 1: This is how you learn to communicat in a relationships.
Speaker 1: But I want to see how we're having problems many.
Speaker 2: Other times, so do you. But how many times do
Speaker 2: you actually get to watch other couples communicate? I mean,
Speaker 2: you really get to watch it. And I know cameras
Speaker 2: are there and it is in part fantasy, but there
Speaker 2: is some real realness to those conversations that I found
Speaker 2: to be an interesting and insightful.
Speaker 1: Sometimes do you find you were turned off, maybe from
Speaker 1: the franchise because of what we did for a living
Speaker 1: and where we worked. We were inundated with it all
Speaker 1: the time, so it almost felt like we were rebels, Like,
Speaker 1: oh God, I got it. I don't want to have
Speaker 1: to go I'm in work all day with this and
Speaker 1: have to hear I don't want to go home.
Speaker 3: And it was homework.
Speaker 2: It was homework in a sense, but then if you
Speaker 2: really actually sit down and watch it, I found it
Speaker 2: to be not just entertaining, but fascinating and interesting too
Speaker 2: on top of it.
Speaker 1: So I only watched one season, and the one season
Speaker 1: I watched was the season The Bachelorette of Rachel Lindsay.
Speaker 1: I watched it from start to finish, every single second
Speaker 1: of every single episode. I didn't realize she was a
Speaker 1: contestant on the previous Bachelor season and she didn't get picked,
Speaker 1: so then they made her the Bachelorette. I found this
Speaker 1: out as I was on my way to work one morning.
Speaker 1: I was on sixth Avenue about to make it left
Speaker 1: on the forty fifth.
Speaker 3: Oh, this left an impression with you.
Speaker 1: It did, and you'll see why it is because I saw, Wow,
Speaker 1: they're gonna have the first ever black lead. And the
Speaker 1: first thoughts I had were, Oh, God, that poor girl,
Speaker 1: because I knew what might be coming her way as
Speaker 1: the first right and most of the contestants they were
Speaker 1: going to give were probably not going to be black.
Speaker 1: And what my mind started being concerned for her as
Speaker 1: I was getting closer to the studio. I see the rundown.
Speaker 1: Rachel Lindsay is on the show that day, so she's
Speaker 1: in the studio. I had no idea. I walked in
Speaker 1: and I immediately went looking for her. Rachel never met
Speaker 1: her before. I found her dressing room where she was
Speaker 1: getting hair and makeup done. I walked in, I closed
Speaker 1: the door behind me. The first words I ever spoke
Speaker 1: to Rachel Lindsay were, sister, I'm worried about you. And
Speaker 1: she never met didn't know who I was, and she understood,
Speaker 1: and she's been my girl ever since, and we have
Speaker 1: We've been good for him because of that, because of
Speaker 1: an understanding that you being a first and how this
Speaker 1: show has gone about doing its business up to this point.
Speaker 1: I was worried about her. Matt, I apologize. I didn't
Speaker 1: get a chance to have that conversation with you before
Speaker 1: you went on your venture. Everybody, please welcome mister Matt James.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, of course, the first black bachelor
Speaker 1: in franchise history. Before we get into a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff, how committed are you to the Beard?
Speaker 4: The Beard's on his last leg? Really, the Beard's on
Speaker 4: his last leg? Why? Just because as as I've evolved
Speaker 4: in my affinity for running. I've I run in the cold,
Speaker 4: I running all the elements. So it really is like
Speaker 4: a natural built in weather proofer all the elements and
Speaker 4: think about that. Yeah, so as it gets warmer, I'm
Speaker 4: like a bear. I'm just gonna start shedding hibernation first.
Speaker 4: So it's coming.
Speaker 3: What does Rachel think of the beard?
Speaker 4: Rachel's supportive and everything, so like she's so nice about it.
Speaker 4: She's like, it looks good and she's never.
Speaker 3: Ever told me to come, but she said it like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can read between the lines.
Speaker 4: It might be it might be time and preface throwing
Speaker 4: it with like Rachel if it ever becomes an issue,
Speaker 4: like I don't care that much about it, Like it's
Speaker 4: no sentimental value, Like this thing can go. And she's like, okay,
Speaker 4: so when are we cutting it? It'll come soon.
Speaker 1: It's like your kid bringing home like a drawing from
Speaker 1: school and they want to put it up on the refrigerator.
Speaker 3: You know, it's nice. That's how she feels about the beer.
Speaker 4: I think she just thinks there's looks that that suit
Speaker 4: me better. And the beard is again, it's a means
Speaker 4: for the running. If I wasn't running in the cold,
Speaker 4: I probably would have cut along.
Speaker 1: So wait a minute, you really telling me that this
Speaker 1: was all a matter of function, not appearance, not vanity,
Speaker 1: not you only look. Really, I did not know that.
Speaker 4: My first go around with the beard, that was like
Speaker 4: a stressed beard where I just had like massive beard
Speaker 4: right after the show. So that was the function for that.
Speaker 4: But now it's like I grew it out. I kind
Speaker 4: of liked it, and it's gotten colder. It's been very
Speaker 4: easy to run, but now it's it can go robes.
Speaker 1: Are you hearing this right? It sounds like it might
Speaker 1: be going soon.
Speaker 2: I definitely think it's going to be gone soon. I
Speaker 2: have to say, I do like you clean, shave and
Speaker 2: better see.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's most you know those women, Yeah, most.
Speaker 2: I just wonder about the hygiene involved with the beard.
Speaker 3: Oh, I have questions, but I don't need them answer.
Speaker 3: It's okay. I'm looking at them different.
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I learned a lot about beard hygiene through
Speaker 4: my first my first beard, and I didn't know how
Speaker 4: to take care of it. But now I've got all
Speaker 4: the grooming done it, I'm washing it, I'm oiling.
Speaker 3: It just seems like a lot of work.
Speaker 4: It is a lot of work, but the latter is
Speaker 4: very unpleasant. So I gotta take care do you get
Speaker 4: a lot of food in it?
Speaker 1: And I ask you that because if anybody follows you
Speaker 1: on Instagram, you are eating I don't know, sixteen hours
Speaker 1: of the day.
Speaker 4: Perhaps it's it's honestly, it's that's probably the biggest issue,
Speaker 4: is someone not telling you that there's something so and
Speaker 4: it's just disgusting. Like if you've ever been around anybody
Speaker 4: that has something on their face or in their teeth,
Speaker 4: Like I'm just walking around with mustard in my beard
Speaker 4: and everyone just kind of looking at me like, oh
Speaker 4: my goodness. Yeah, that's things like that. I'm like, man,
Speaker 4: I'm kind of ready for this to go too.
Speaker 3: All right, all right, that's exciting. So, by the way,
Speaker 3: where is your better half?
Speaker 4: Like most weekends, she is on her way to a wedding. Yes,
Speaker 4: she's on a weddo wedding. I didn't even know was
Speaker 4: wedding season. I guess wedding season's three sixty five.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, man, she's right in that sweet spot right
Speaker 1: of age where so many friends from college hitting a
Speaker 1: certain age and getting married and there's a wedding every
Speaker 1: single weekend, it seems.
Speaker 2: How does she feel about going to a wedding without
Speaker 2: her plus one?
Speaker 4: That's a great question. There's so many of them that
Speaker 4: if I went to every single wedding that I would
Speaker 4: miss out on previous engagements. And I had a lot
Speaker 4: going on this week in New York. One of those
Speaker 4: highlights being to come see you all.
Speaker 3: So wait, don't blame.
Speaker 4: Us, Sorry, Rachel, what the hell? Hey, hey, Rachel, baby,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. This is on TJ and Amy, I was Rachel.
Speaker 4: We gave him next week as an option to Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Speaking of weddings, how many times do you get
Speaker 2: that question a day? Oh?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 4: It depends on how many people we see. It's constant,
Speaker 4: but I get it. I mean, we are Our relationship
Speaker 4: and love was so public and is still so public
Speaker 4: that everyone has a vested interest in and when that's happening,
Speaker 4: and I tell most people, and I'll tell y'all, we
Speaker 4: wouldn't be together if that wasn't the end goal. And
Speaker 4: the longer we've been together, the more of a reality
Speaker 4: that is becoming, and especially when we go to weddings
Speaker 4: together and we start to bounce ideas off each other,
Speaker 4: we just kind of start to create our own perfect wedding,
Speaker 4: which is fun. So when we leave places and venues
Speaker 4: and travel and countries are like, would you want to
Speaker 4: get married over here? It's like, yeah, do.
Speaker 3: You have a list of just your thinking destination wedding?
Speaker 4: What I say doesn't matter, whatever it's going to be
Speaker 4: wherever and whatever she wants, which is fitting. But I
Speaker 4: think that a destination wedding would be amazing, and I
Speaker 4: think that she slow to that idea too, just because
Speaker 4: we have so many people that we'd want to enjoy
Speaker 4: that with us, and if you have a destination wedding,
Speaker 4: it kind of trims it down a little bit. Listen,
Speaker 4: the weddings are expensive. Weddings are expensive, So it's something
Speaker 4: that we talk about and it's not something that we're
Speaker 4: not like having conversations about all.
Speaker 1: Warm weather destination. Now now I'm not assuming we are
Speaker 1: going to be on the invite list, but it's a
Speaker 1: warm weather destination.
Speaker 4: You all look at it, right? Yeah, for sure?
Speaker 3: For sure? Definitely no beard, no beard, no beard, no beard.
Speaker 4: I couldn't get away with the beer for the wedding.
Speaker 2: I will say, though no one else can see your face.
Speaker 2: But when you were just talking about it.
Speaker 3: It was sweet.
Speaker 2: Your face lit up, there was a warmth, like it
Speaker 2: was a really cool thing to see how warmly you
Speaker 2: talk about it. Despite having to constantly talk about it,
Speaker 2: I can still see it's an exciting thing to look
Speaker 2: forward to that you're planning and you're developing, and I
Speaker 2: don't know what. You fell in love in front of everyone.
Speaker 2: Your entire relationship was exposed in front of everyone. How
Speaker 2: have you dealt You were a real estate agent before this,
Speaker 2: how have you dealt with the public pressure of being
Speaker 2: in a relationship. I mean, yes, people are rooting for you,
Speaker 2: but what is that like?
Speaker 4: Oo? I dealt with it very poorly. Initially. You just
Speaker 4: try to do things to appease people, and that's just
Speaker 4: a very dangerous path to go on because you can't
Speaker 4: make anybody happy. It's hard enough to make your partner happy.
Speaker 4: So like doing things in the consideration of others is
Speaker 4: just as a non starter. So we started living for
Speaker 4: each other and we focused on each other and we
Speaker 4: just stayed out of the nonsense. And I think that's
Speaker 4: where we thrive, and that's why we're not allowed. That's
Speaker 4: why we're not around a lot like there's so many
Speaker 4: things that go on in that reality world and bachelor
Speaker 4: world that you're pulled into because you know you'll always
Speaker 4: be a part of it. I'm getting sent stuff daily
Speaker 4: from people and getting tagged and stuff. But our relationship
Speaker 4: is strong because we focus on each other.
Speaker 1: You say focus on each other now, but you use
Speaker 1: that word appease others outside of the relationship. Where did
Speaker 1: you find that you were making some missteps and doing
Speaker 1: something personally or doing something with her or in relation
Speaker 1: to your relationship that was for somebody outside of the relationship.
Speaker 4: I think that you take advice from people who aren't married,
Speaker 4: aren't family, don't know what it means to be in
Speaker 4: a healthy relationship. So you're taking in all this outside
Speaker 4: noise that is just noise, and you've got to decipher,
Speaker 4: like what's the basis of their advice, Like is it
Speaker 4: selfishly they just want to see a ribbons hide on
Speaker 4: this experience that they all went through with you, and
Speaker 4: they're just it's a selfish thing, or they're like they
Speaker 4: actually want the best for you, and the people that
Speaker 4: want the best for us have never put pressure on
Speaker 4: our relationship. And with that type of relationship, to those
Speaker 4: people were more susceptible to what they have to say
Speaker 4: because we know they're coming at it from love and
Speaker 4: from someone who cares about as opposed to someone that
Speaker 4: just like that really doesn't care. Because there's so much
Speaker 4: turnover in the franchise that you know there's going to
Speaker 4: be the next person, the next person, the next person,
Speaker 4: so that end goal will come to them at some point,
Speaker 4: and as someone who had been in that situation, you
Speaker 4: feel the pressure to make that happen. And I'm not
Speaker 4: gonna call anybody out, but as you've seen over the
Speaker 4: past couple of seasons, just because the show ends out
Speaker 4: a certain way doesn't necessarily mean that that relationship is
Speaker 4: going to withstand the test of time.
Speaker 2: And conversely, you all had broken up when you were
Speaker 2: doing the After the Rose the Reunion special. You all
Speaker 2: weren't together and then look what happened. I guess started
Speaker 2: backstage and then a month later. Do you feel any
Speaker 2: public pressure to stay together?
Speaker 4: I don't think so. I don't think Rachel feels that either.
Speaker 4: I mean, when you've been together as long as we have,
Speaker 4: there's love there. You know you can't you could fake something,
Speaker 4: but for so long and you see it with people
Speaker 4: who were together. But I think anyone who's been around
Speaker 4: Rachel and I can tell that we were made for
Speaker 4: each other. Which is crazy because during the show, you
Speaker 4: know everything. So you made a point earlier about you
Speaker 4: and TJ were talking about having learned about couples communicating
Speaker 4: while watching people communicate on the show. You can't run
Speaker 4: away from tough conversations like you can in the real world.
Speaker 4: Like in the real world, if I wasn't going to
Speaker 4: talk to somebody like back then, I would have just
Speaker 4: not texted them back and like, I'm sorry, but that's
Speaker 4: my honest answer, Like I wasn't gonna Hey can we
Speaker 4: meet up? Hey, I don't think we should be together?
Speaker 4: Are you okay? Okay, let me walk you out, Like
Speaker 4: I'm not doing that. I'm like, the easiest way for
Speaker 4: me to confront that was just to I'm never gonna
Speaker 4: talk to them again. I'm not saying that was the
Speaker 4: right way, but like going through those experiences on the
Speaker 4: show has helped.
Speaker 2: You had to break up with people, Yeah, to their face,
Speaker 2: it's the worst and put them in a car.
Speaker 4: Do we have to relive that?
Speaker 3: You know what?
Speaker 1: She makes a good point back to the breaking up.
Speaker 1: I know bechelation is an enormous nation, and I know
Speaker 1: you constantly get inundated with things, but do you ever
Speaker 1: hear from anyone do you continue any friendships from people
Speaker 1: that were on your season, and even any of them
Speaker 1: try to give you any advice about what you're doing.
Speaker 4: You made a very interesting point when you were talking
Speaker 4: about that connection that you and Rachel Lindsay had just
Speaker 4: off of the few words you shared before the interview,
Speaker 4: haven't never met each other, And I think Rachel and
Speaker 4: I have a similar relationship. Rachel Lindsay, she was the
Speaker 4: last person I spoke with before they took my phone
Speaker 4: and before I went out into this like super foreign experience,
Speaker 4: and she gave me some of the best advice that
Speaker 4: helped shape the decisions I made during that time. And
Speaker 4: that was off, that was out of the kindness of
Speaker 4: her heart, Like we didn't know each other, like she
Speaker 4: had just seen me on social or like heard through
Speaker 4: the grapevine. She had a better relationship with the woman
Speaker 4: who didn't want me on the show than she did
Speaker 4: with me. And because I was supposed to be on
Speaker 4: another woman's show who ultimately didn't work out, and so
Speaker 4: Rachel reached out to me, and I was like, dang,
Speaker 4: like this is. I spoke with a bunch of different
Speaker 4: former contestants Bachelor's Batch, mostly Bachelor's. I didn't sach out
Speaker 4: to any Basarettes, but I had Nick Vaiao reach out.
Speaker 4: I talked wells. I talked to Ben Higgins, like people
Speaker 4: who I still look up to and respect, And it
Speaker 4: was just something different about the Rachel Lindsay conversation, just
Speaker 4: because she I think she could relate and feel the
Speaker 4: pressures and the weight of that stage and what it
Speaker 4: meant for a lot of people. So yeah, me and Rachel,
Speaker 4: we don't talk every day, but whenever she's in New York,
Speaker 4: she'll reach out to me. I hosted and mediated her
Speaker 4: second book conversation, So we have a good relationship.
Speaker 1: You know, I have to since we're talking about Rachel Lindsay.
Speaker 1: I think that news has been out there and everybody
Speaker 1: knows now she is split with the guy she ended
Speaker 1: up with after her season, her husband that her to
Speaker 1: be going through divorce proceedings. What is your reaction to,
Speaker 1: not necessarily just that they broke up, but the reaction
Speaker 1: that has been out there to her splitting you Being
Speaker 1: in the unique position you are where people are rooting
Speaker 1: for you or waiting for you to break up. I
Speaker 1: want to put a bull on it. I think is
Speaker 1: how you said it? What do you think about what
Speaker 1: you're seeing and how people I've reacted to? What was
Speaker 1: I guess a polarizing couple of in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: now splitting after.
Speaker 4: Four years, I'm heartbroken for I think that a lot
Speaker 4: of people look at these, you know, reality relationships as
Speaker 4: you know, is that like it's just a fictional thing
Speaker 4: and there's real emotions there. They were married, like people
Speaker 4: forget that they were married.
Speaker 1: They moved into like move across country.
Speaker 4: I think that people don't look at the union of
Speaker 4: marriage the same with those type of people, and they're
Speaker 4: no different from from anybody else. So, along with an
Speaker 4: answer to say I was heartbroken for because those it
Speaker 4: was hard enough to break up with someone that I
Speaker 4: barely knew on the Bachelor, Like I couldn't imagine having
Speaker 4: that type of a conversation with someone that you know,
Speaker 4: you were planning to spend the rest of your life with.
Speaker 4: So I haven't spoken to her, just out of respect
Speaker 4: of or her situation, but I've been praying for and
Speaker 4: it's just sad like I don't want I root for
Speaker 4: love and you know it's devastating. I can't imagine what
Speaker 4: they're going through.
Speaker 1: And can I say to you and you will be
Speaker 1: on board with this.
Speaker 3: I was the same way.
Speaker 1: Rachel and I have been closed for a long time,
Speaker 1: but when everything was going on, my initial reaction was
Speaker 1: to let me hold that, let me give her a beat, and.
Speaker 4: Just stay out of the way.
Speaker 3: And then I thought about you.
Speaker 1: I thought about Montel, I thought about Chuck, I thought
Speaker 1: about Halle, I thought about Candy, I thought about I
Speaker 1: thought about all the people when I was going through
Speaker 1: hell and nobody knew what the hell to say to me.
Speaker 1: It made a difference that you picked up the phone
Speaker 1: and sent that message. It made a difference to just
Speaker 1: get that and I have. I've talked to Rachel since
Speaker 1: all this went down, and just it means everything when
Speaker 1: you're going through hell to hear and I know I'm
Speaker 1: not getting on to you for it, but I know
Speaker 1: exactly the position you were sitting in, and I assure
Speaker 1: you she wants to hear from you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I needed to hear that because I think about
Speaker 4: it selfishly, I'm like, oh, I need to say something
Speaker 4: to her, but it's like it's like what is what
Speaker 4: is she need at this moment? And like what And
Speaker 4: I saw that she recently posted that she did a
Speaker 4: girl ship, which I'm through them. I'm super excited for
Speaker 4: her because you need in that moment the people to
Speaker 4: come around you. And like you were saying, when you
Speaker 4: were going through what you were going through, like we
Speaker 4: at the time, we didn't have the strongest or best
Speaker 4: relationship just because we hadn't known each other for long,
Speaker 4: but the way that we first met and interacted, like
Speaker 4: I just it was something in my spirit that I
Speaker 4: just looked up to you, like the way that you
Speaker 4: handled everything that I was going through and our relationship
Speaker 4: with grace and guidance, and it honestly inspired me to
Speaker 4: want to pursue what you were doing. I wanted to
Speaker 4: be you.
Speaker 3: Do you still want to be him?
Speaker 4: I still want.
Speaker 3: To be you can do better?
Speaker 4: So but yeah, no, those those type of conversations met
Speaker 4: more than you know. And there was the ones we
Speaker 4: had on air, and there's a lot of conversations that
Speaker 4: we've had off air and time we spent together that
Speaker 4: no one will ever know about that it meant a lot,
Speaker 4: and it means a lot.
Speaker 1: I was trying to explain this to the Ropes, who
Speaker 1: was obviously a witness to everything going on, But she
Speaker 1: was also a witness to every time I picked up
Speaker 1: the phone and said, Hey, just heard from Matt. Let
Speaker 1: me let you read this, or hey, I got lunch
Speaker 1: with that. I think you were the first person when
Speaker 1: everything went down and shit hit the fan with us.
Speaker 1: You were the first person outside of Robot that I
Speaker 1: set foot out with publicly. We went to had Mexican
Speaker 1: a couple of times in the spot and try it
Speaker 1: beca We went for a run. But to your point,
Speaker 1: you don't realize. I guess we switched positions here in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. And you I will inundate you
Speaker 1: with text now if I don't hear from you how
Speaker 1: you do the hell with it? Brother, I'm gonna keep
Speaker 1: coming at you until you let me know you okay,
Speaker 1: But you were the one, and that time you were
Speaker 1: one of those who wouldn't give up on me, who
Speaker 1: wouldn't let me crawl on draw a rock and bro
Speaker 1: while you know this, how many you know that handful
Speaker 1: of guys that meant everything to me? And you know
Speaker 1: one of them you were hearing about because this dude's sitting.
Speaker 2: Right here right I was going to tell you, Matt,
Speaker 2: you may not realizing it sounds like you don't just
Speaker 2: how much you meant to TJ during this past year.
Speaker 2: It was a huge source of comfort to know that
Speaker 2: someone cared and someone got it. I think, you know
Speaker 2: that's and I love what you just said about how
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people watch these types of shows,
Speaker 2: or watch anyone who's on television or in the public eye,
Speaker 2: and somehow think that they are insulated from pain or
Speaker 2: insulated from.
Speaker 3: Trauma. And it's actually.
Speaker 2: Amplified in a lot of ways, because everyone going through
Speaker 2: something private, whether it be a divorce or any sort
Speaker 2: of breakup or any sort of controversy, is painful enough,
Speaker 2: but to have it amplified and the pressure of that
Speaker 2: is even more so. You know, I know that you
Speaker 2: get it, and people, I think sometimes forget it, or
Speaker 2: sometimes they just believe that somehow there's so many other
Speaker 2: great things going on in your life that this doesn't
Speaker 2: mean as much. You know, relationships and you know, the
Speaker 2: ups and downs and all rounds of them are probably
Speaker 2: the thing that impacts all of us the most.
Speaker 3: In our lives.
Speaker 2: That's why the Bachelor probably is such a phenomenon because
Speaker 2: we all get it, we all relate to it to
Speaker 2: an extent.
Speaker 3: And I know that in.
Speaker 2: Your season you were the first black Bachelor, and so
Speaker 2: race obviously was going to be a part of it.
Speaker 2: But race played a role that you probably couldn't have
Speaker 2: even imagined ultimately. And I'm curious today because obviously TJ
Speaker 2: and I live this to an extent in terms of
Speaker 2: your relationship and how you all interact and connect or
Speaker 2: perhaps don't see things the same way or need to
Speaker 2: be reminded of or educated or re educated about things
Speaker 2: on black and white issues, like how much of that
Speaker 2: is a part of your relationship?
Speaker 4: You know what? There was a time where as the
Speaker 4: show was airing, Uh, it seemed like where our country
Speaker 4: was at the time, no one wanted our relationship to work.
Speaker 4: And the things that humanized my relationship with Rachel, like
Speaker 4: you were saying, people saw us as people on TV
Speaker 4: and not humans. And I lived in TJ's neighborhood and
Speaker 4: I would see TJ in what's it called the Seaport,
Speaker 4: I would see the CJ, I'd see see I'd see TJ.
Speaker 4: And the seaport walking to go get lunch with his
Speaker 4: beautiful daughter, and I was like, damn, I was like,
Speaker 4: I want that. It's a beautiful daughter. I was like,
Speaker 4: I want that family. And I'd see TJ running and
Speaker 4: and I had these interactions with people that I looked
Speaker 4: up to who had things that I wanted, and I
Speaker 4: saw it again for myself and I had those confirmation
Speaker 4: I had those confirmations affirmed, and I had those conversations
Speaker 4: with Rachel about you know, people who had done it
Speaker 4: before us, and it was encouraging to see that it
Speaker 4: wasn't something that was foreign and shouldn't be foreign at
Speaker 4: you know, twenty twenty two. But it just took us
Speaker 4: taking time to really get to know each other. Because
Speaker 4: what a lot of people don't understand is when you
Speaker 4: go on a show like that, yeah it's eight weeks,
Speaker 4: but the actual time, like the literal time you spend
Speaker 4: with that person could be quantified in hours. So like
Speaker 4: I had spent maybe seven hours with this woman that
Speaker 4: people wanted me to, you know, propose to, And when
Speaker 4: you think about it like that, it's like that's the
Speaker 4: ultimate speed dating, you know. So it's just we just
Speaker 4: went about things a different way and we're still here,
Speaker 4: we're together, and a lot of people can't say that.
Speaker 4: Who you know, rush that process, and we're not rushing things.
Speaker 1: So married at first sight wouldn't be your jam. That
Speaker 1: shows what you wouldn't do it though.
Speaker 3: Listen, listen what we did. It's basically what we did. Okay,
Speaker 3: you got seven hours.
Speaker 4: It's basically what we did. And I said I would.
Speaker 4: I paused because I'm so like, my relationship is is perfect,
Speaker 4: and I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to go
Speaker 4: out of out of the relationship that I'm in. But
Speaker 4: I was. I wasn't familiar with that show until recently
Speaker 4: when Rachel showed me. Rachel showed me a video that
Speaker 4: is the funniest video I may have ever seen in
Speaker 4: my entire life. I share a little snippet of it
Speaker 4: with you. Video. It's this guy's talking to the lady
Speaker 4: that he just married or is about to marry, and
Speaker 4: he goes, I'm gonna watch this, but you can go
Speaker 4: look it up. And he's like the lady that he's
Speaker 4: speaking with, she's like, oh, this is a pretty view.
Speaker 4: And then he looks at her and he says, you're
Speaker 4: my prettiest view. And then she looks at him and
Speaker 4: she goes, eh, I just died laughing. We have to
Speaker 4: cue that video.
Speaker 3: For this, But I was just gonna season.
Speaker 4: Does anyone you haven't seen Oh.
Speaker 3: No, nor first. We just watched my most recent.
Speaker 4: It might be ninety day Fiance. Yes, I like to view.
Speaker 4: And he's like, you're my best view and she's like, eh,
Speaker 4: we haven't done that. You gotta watch that. So I'm
Speaker 4: getting confused. I've seen ninety day Fiance. I haven't seen
Speaker 4: Love of Mary first. No, I've never seen that Mary
Speaker 4: at first sight.
Speaker 2: Please please, you meet the person you're going to marry
Speaker 2: when you're standing at the altar with the efficient ready
Speaker 2: to go. Your family is there, your friends are there,
Speaker 2: and you've trusted the producers who have used this algorithm
Speaker 2: to put together Apparently you're perfect match on paper, and
Speaker 2: you anually, legitimately legally get married.
Speaker 3: On the spot that moment, you don't have a.
Speaker 2: Choice, and you get married, and then you have eight
Speaker 2: weeks to figure out if you're going to stay married
Speaker 2: or you actually have to end up getting divorced.
Speaker 3: It's decision day.
Speaker 4: Yes, this is a real Yes.
Speaker 3: It's nuts. It's The Bachelor on steroids.
Speaker 4: Wow, I need to watch this. Yes, it's always nice.
Speaker 4: I always tell people this who ask about our relationship.
Speaker 4: I'm like, it's always nice to see someone else go
Speaker 4: through it, Like, well, it's not your drama. So like
Speaker 4: people who are so enamored by, you know, everyone else's stuff.
Speaker 4: Now it looks like I can take part of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Love at first sight.
Speaker 1: Wow, look you you threw in the word perfect a
Speaker 1: second ago. I knew what you were saying. You said
Speaker 1: you OL's relationship is perfect. Obviously nobody's is, but you
Speaker 1: were making a point there. But I do want to
Speaker 1: go back to the word perfect to where we look
Speaker 1: from the outside. If anybody follow listens to you here,
Speaker 1: it follows you on Instagram. Yes, everything does look and
Speaker 1: appear perfect. You seeing me going through the seaport, smiling
Speaker 1: daughter with me, everything looks perfect. There was some hell
Speaker 1: going on in my life at the time. You what
Speaker 1: is the hell right? What is it we don't see
Speaker 1: to where yes, it's perfect and you can have a
Speaker 1: wonderful relationship, But when are the moments that it's not perfect?
Speaker 1: What are the moments that aren't perfect? Are they just
Speaker 1: normal moments like the rest of us.
Speaker 4: Have in relationships. You know, that's a good question. There
Speaker 4: was a there was like a few months ago where
Speaker 4: I was like, I was thinking to myself, I'm like,
Speaker 4: how do I engage with my audience more so they
Speaker 4: have a more holistic view of our relationship. And I
Speaker 4: was like, I'm gonna film like us getting into a fight.
Speaker 4: And it wasn't like like I wasn't gonna like pick
Speaker 4: a fight where it's like that would have been easy,
Speaker 4: Like I could have left all the all the I
Speaker 4: could have left all the cabinets opened, or the refrigerator
Speaker 4: cracked like done. Stuff that like annoys her. But I
Speaker 4: didn't get around to that. I still might film one.
Speaker 4: But we actually got into an argument yesterday and it
Speaker 4: was so dumb. It usually is. It's always the it's
Speaker 4: the always the dumbest stuff.
Speaker 1: So you probably got a good relationship your relationship if
Speaker 1: it's petty little stuff that is not even worth talking about,
Speaker 1: and you're probably doing pretty well. It was so dumb,
Speaker 1: and what was it about.
Speaker 3: I want to know.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you it's it's so dumb. I hadn't gotten back.
Speaker 4: Let me let me rephrase this, Let me rephrase this,
Speaker 4: let me rephrase this. It wasn't something worth getting that
Speaker 4: upset about. It wasn't dumb, but it was like it
Speaker 4: was dumb. It was dumb on my part. You got upset,
Speaker 4: not her. I got upset. Okay, So so I had
Speaker 4: a long morning. Obviously I worked so hard and he's
Speaker 4: a prefacing everything.
Speaker 1: I was tired, just so you know, I was tired,
Speaker 1: bust in my tail.
Speaker 4: To bring food home for the yes and I call
Speaker 4: Rachel lunch because I just like want to hear a
Speaker 4: voice and just like hear this like fresh breath of air,
Speaker 4: like just like put me at ease. And I called her.
Speaker 4: I was like, hey, babe, She's like, Matt, you haven't
Speaker 4: given us the food for the wedding yet. Are you
Speaker 4: going to give Michael's? Are you going to give Michael
Speaker 4: the dish you need? Is it a veget And she
Speaker 4: just started going on this thing that I hadn't done.
Speaker 4: I should have done this a long time ago. And
Speaker 4: it was the last thing I was trying to hear.
Speaker 4: And I was like, are you serious, Like you're not
Speaker 4: going to ask how my day was like? And we
Speaker 4: just like got into this like spat back and forth,
Speaker 4: and I hung up and I was like I was like,
Speaker 4: i'll call you back later, like I can't talk to
Speaker 4: you right now. And I was walking to go get
Speaker 4: a cookie and uh and I opened the door and
Speaker 4: I smelled the cookies and I was like, it's like
Speaker 4: what am I doing? And I called her back and
Speaker 4: she's like like sniffle and I'm like, I'm my baby,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. She's like she's like I forgive you and
Speaker 4: like and she's just like so loving and understanding in
Speaker 4: that moment that like it was it was so dumb
Speaker 4: and like, thank goodness. That's the extent of like our
Speaker 4: our fights. Like there aren't like any major blow ups
Speaker 4: or like any controversial things we've like gone at it about,
Speaker 4: but just the I think the moral of that story
Speaker 4: is we both have an understanding of like what is
Speaker 4: and isn't silly and when something isn't worth, you know,
Speaker 4: going to war over. She's the first to call me
Speaker 4: and apologize, and I'll do the same and I apologize.
Speaker 4: But yeah, that's the things she don't see.
Speaker 1: Okay, Rose, we got to get this out. After hearing
Speaker 1: that story, I'm curious for you, what is your first
Speaker 1: question to him? As a follow up, And I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what mine is after hearing that story, what is
Speaker 1: your question?
Speaker 2: Oh, so I was going back because you can put
Speaker 2: it into perspective. My thought was, how much of what
Speaker 2: you what you went through with the public scrutiny, all
Speaker 2: the controversy, kind of having to hide out. We've talked
Speaker 2: about this from the cameras, from the press, how much
Speaker 2: of going through something that actually was serious, that actually
Speaker 2: was really difficult gave you the expect to be able
Speaker 2: to brush off something that could fester, that could look
Speaker 2: to say, you know what, this isn't that big of
Speaker 2: a deal.
Speaker 1: So yeah, my question was how long did it take
Speaker 1: for you when you hung up the call her back?
Speaker 4: Those those are two incredible questions. I'm gonna answer Amy's first.
Speaker 4: And it's funny you say that, Amy, because Rachel has
Speaker 4: literally said that to to me when we've gone when
Speaker 4: we've gone at it over something ridiculous, like we're just
Speaker 4: sitting there on the couch and she's like, like, I
Speaker 4: can't believe we're arguing over this after everything we've been through.
Speaker 4: I'm like, you're right, Like I'm I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
Speaker 4: and like it's that amlicable. It's it really when you
Speaker 4: face the toughest adversity at the rip and off the
Speaker 4: peak and at the beginning of your relationship. I mean,
Speaker 4: you can get through anything, which is comforting to know
Speaker 4: that you know you have someone who will stick by
Speaker 4: you through you know, the ups and downs, not that
Speaker 4: there won't be more, but just that it's battle tested.
Speaker 4: So yeah, that was that is like our our north star.
Speaker 4: It's like, it's like we've gotten through this, Like, let's
Speaker 4: that's our grounding moment. It's like we've if we've made
Speaker 4: it through everything else, then this is this is nothing
Speaker 4: close to that. So let's just I'm like, you're right, baby.
Speaker 3: The storm came early, and it came fast.
Speaker 4: Storm came early and fast. And to answer to TJ's
Speaker 4: question about how quickly I called her back, probably forty
Speaker 4: five seconds.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, I'll tell you were gonna say forty
Speaker 3: five minutes.
Speaker 4: No, No, I wouldn't let it faster that long. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I was like, I hung up. I just needed a second,
Speaker 4: and I was just like, and it's it's typically how
Speaker 4: it goes with us, Like before you say something dumb
Speaker 4: either way, it's like you're gonna hang up and just
Speaker 4: take a second to collect your thought. And then call back.
Speaker 4: It's usually yeah, So I knew I was in the wrong,
Speaker 4: so I called back, and I'm like, tail between my legs, baby,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. I didn't I didn't mean. I'll take the
Speaker 4: go ahead, salmon.
Speaker 3: You dying to say something? No, I'm not. I don't
Speaker 3: need to point anything out. No, no, no, no. Then I'll
Speaker 3: point this out.
Speaker 1: I get that, like I, when you're in the wrong,
Speaker 1: you've got to jump on it in that moment. I
Speaker 1: think most fights and things take place and there it's
Speaker 1: never really about what happened. It's how you handle what happened.
Speaker 1: That's the fact that ends up being the problem. And
Speaker 1: so no, that's and to your point about recording an argument,
Speaker 1: I don't know ropes so we recommend that or not.
Speaker 2: I mean, so we did a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 2: and people fell on either side of the fence on
Speaker 2: whether or not we should have. But I look back
Speaker 2: at it and I learned a lot from it, So
Speaker 2: I don't know that I would recommend it to anyone.
Speaker 2: You have to be personally willing to re listen to
Speaker 2: yourself and to hear things differently, and that is part
Speaker 2: of the process. I actually personally am very glad for me.
Speaker 2: I think it actually was a moment. I feel like
Speaker 2: a different person afterwards now, I really do so for me,
Speaker 2: it was actually helpful, but it came with a price
Speaker 2: because people weigh in.
Speaker 3: You know, that's the thing. You know, you're you don't
Speaker 3: want to put on.
Speaker 2: This perception of having some perfect relationship, and there is
Speaker 2: something about knowing you're not alone and it is relatable.
Speaker 2: And no matter who you are, no matter where you live,
Speaker 2: or how much money you make, or what your circumstances are,
Speaker 2: we all still come down to the same basic things.
Speaker 2: We want to feel loved, we want to feel safe,
Speaker 2: we want to feel heard, we want to feel understood.
Speaker 2: So I do think that that there is real value
Speaker 2: in understanding that and knowing that everyone's in the same place, genuinely.
Speaker 1: But we were letting you know from where we were
Speaker 1: at the time. She didn't know it was about to happen.
Speaker 1: We were in a whatever little beef and she wasn't
Speaker 1: with me at the house and I just set up
Speaker 1: the microphones. She came over and I said, hey, let's
Speaker 1: just talk it out and see what happens. And we
Speaker 1: had days to decide whether or not to put it
Speaker 1: out there, and so we had to go back and
Speaker 1: listen to ourselves fight like five times.
Speaker 3: It's tough.
Speaker 1: It spawned more difficult conversations and fights, and a big
Speaker 1: part of the had did have to do with race.
Speaker 1: It did have to do with not seeing eye to
Speaker 1: eye on some things, or how something could be perceived
Speaker 1: coming from a black man talking to a white woman
Speaker 1: or a white woman talking to a black man. Now, privately,
Speaker 1: there's no issue, but then once you hear it laid
Speaker 1: out and you put it out there for people to hear.
Speaker 1: So I think when she was asking you earlier about
Speaker 1: how race ever plays into it, winn in your private moments,
Speaker 1: does she have a moment where she needs to be
Speaker 1: And I don't want this sound the wrong way, but educated,
Speaker 1: almost unaware of or doesn't know how to handle something
Speaker 1: related to you as a black man, your culture, your upbringing,
Speaker 1: your way of seeing the world. How often do those
Speaker 1: things in the way the world suits you, do those
Speaker 1: things come up?
Speaker 4: I mean, to be honest with y'all, we're so fortunate
Speaker 4: that and I say this from like the highest level
Speaker 4: of level of privilege, Like I am so fortunate that
Speaker 4: a majority of my interactions with people, are interactions with people,
Speaker 4: We're not having those type of extreme racial reactions to
Speaker 4: our relationship to I'm trying to think of the best
Speaker 4: way to answer this, because there have been moments I'm
Speaker 4: just trying to think of.
Speaker 1: So I'll give you and while you are thinking to
Speaker 1: give me an idea, and it robs you, like this
Speaker 1: is something that didn't come about because of us, but
Speaker 1: we happen to be around someone who, right, a group
Speaker 1: of folks who someone a white person says something about
Speaker 1: black culture, says something about black folks, makes a reference
Speaker 1: to something in the way to where it now her
Speaker 1: ear to where everybody in the room who might be
Speaker 1: all be white, they look and they listen, they're laughing
Speaker 1: or chiming in, and I'm like this with my arms
Speaker 1: just listening. She now can hear what was just said
Speaker 1: and understand why it came into my ear and would
Speaker 1: have been interpreted differently to where and again, no offense
Speaker 1: to you, right, you didn't do anything wrong, but she
Speaker 1: didn't understand why I might be offended by the way
Speaker 1: the world is seeing me and not respecting me, or
Speaker 1: not appreciate it, not being considered at all. Those types
Speaker 1: of things do rear their heads every now and again
Speaker 1: with us. Doesn't call a rift between us, Oh no, no, no.
Speaker 2: But I would say that I just so where I
Speaker 2: think what you're specifically referencing is a lot of people,
Speaker 2: in an effort they come from maybe a good place,
Speaker 2: trying to connect or relate to the black experience. It's
Speaker 2: offensive because they can't. And so seeing people desperately try
Speaker 2: to connect or relate and so being offensive in a
Speaker 2: way that I wouldn't have necessarily realized before hit it.
Speaker 4: That hit well, not for me personally, but I've seen it, Like,
Speaker 4: I see so much of it because like people so
Speaker 4: much want to be like I feel you, but like
Speaker 4: there's other ways to like, you know, support that cause
Speaker 4: then to like, you know, try to draw to an
Speaker 4: experience that you might not you know, be able to represent. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but I would say to answer your question, and again
Speaker 4: this is like coming from the biggest area of privilege,
Speaker 4: is like if we're going to dinner or we're going uh,
Speaker 4: if if we're at the airport and I think that
Speaker 4: me going up to this individual is gonna warrant a
Speaker 4: negative response, then all of a sudden, Rachel m h.
Speaker 4: And I'll be like like and I know, like, that's
Speaker 4: that's how that's just how it goes, like.
Speaker 1: No, because we have all at some point in your life.
Speaker 1: You've been in a car and the police lights come
Speaker 1: on in the back and you we look around. We
Speaker 1: tell the white dude with us, hey, you got this
Speaker 1: one right like you tell them they talk to the
Speaker 1: cops for us. There have been plenty of times Robes,
Speaker 1: I say hey, you need to handle this one, you
Speaker 1: need to take this because they yes, see yeah, and
Speaker 1: now it's coming, now it's coming, It's here, it's here,
Speaker 1: all right here.
Speaker 4: I was in Marble Falls, Texas.
Speaker 3: It's a good start to a store.
Speaker 4: It's a suburb an hour south of Austin, and I
Speaker 4: was there for my college roommate's wedding and I had
Speaker 4: rented a car for the weekend and I was driving
Speaker 4: to the and I was driving to pick up a
Speaker 4: cowboy hat because it was cowboy themed. This is a
Speaker 4: great story.
Speaker 2: I think I saw the picture of YouTube on Instagram
Speaker 2: with you with the cowboy hat.
Speaker 3: You guys looked great. Okay, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 4: And Rachel's flight was delayed some by myself, and Rachel
Speaker 4: is going to uber and meet me at the reception
Speaker 4: and then we're going to leave after So on the
Speaker 4: way to the reception, I get pulled over. I haven't
Speaker 4: been pulled over. I haven't been pulled over since my
Speaker 4: sophomore year of college when I was legitimately speeding, Like
Speaker 4: I was speeding and I got a ticket, as you
Speaker 4: should if you're speeding. I was going to speed limit.
Speaker 4: I have my I have my headlights on, I have
Speaker 4: my seat belt on. And I get pulled over and
Speaker 4: my heart starts to race. I'm like, oh shit. I'm like,
Speaker 4: I'm in I'm in Texas. I'm black, I'm by myself,
Speaker 4: Like this is a rental car. I don't know where
Speaker 4: the registration is. Like, I'm my heart is racing. I
Speaker 4: turned the car off. I take the keys out and
Speaker 4: put them on top of the car, and the cop
Speaker 4: comes up to the car. He's like, sor do you
Speaker 4: know how fast you were going? I was like the
Speaker 4: speed limit? Like he's like you you He's like, you
Speaker 4: flew by me, And I was like in my head,
Speaker 4: I'm like, were you stationary like like cars typically do.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm just like I'm trying to figure out, like I'm
Speaker 4: like what do you know how fast I was going?
Speaker 4: And he's like, well, you were going faster than me.
Speaker 4: And I was going to speed then, and I'm just
Speaker 4: like and I'm just like trying to de escalate, de escalate,
Speaker 4: to escalate, And long story short, I don't get a
Speaker 4: ticket for speeding. I get it. I get some sort
Speaker 4: of like infraction for improper equipment or something like that.
Speaker 4: And I'm just like, I'm like, thank god, that's all
Speaker 4: I made it out there with. Thank god, that's all
Speaker 4: I made it out of that situation with. Go to
Speaker 4: the party. Leaving the party, Rachel's in the car. This time,
Speaker 4: I get pulled over leaving the party. Wow, I get
Speaker 4: pulled over twice in one night. Cop comes up the car.
Speaker 4: This time. Rachel's in the car though, Oh god, I
Speaker 4: can't make this up. Ma'am. Are you okay? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 4: She's like yeah, I'm fine. He's like, you know how
Speaker 4: I pulled you over? I was like, honestly, I have
Speaker 4: no idea. Enlighten me, Like at this point, I'm mad.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm like, he's like, you were speeding. He's like,
Speaker 4: you were going he said, you were going thirty eight
Speaker 4: in a thirty five technically I was speeding, and I
Speaker 4: was like in my head, I'm just like, am I
Speaker 4: gonna go to jail? Like what is? Like?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 4: Like I'm like, you know what, sir, I'm sorry, Like
Speaker 4: I didn't realize that. I just tried to again, de escalate,
Speaker 4: de escalate because that's what you have to do in
Speaker 4: this position if you're aggressive, like who knows what's gonna happen.
Speaker 4: So I'm like, sir, you're absolutely right, I was speeding.
Speaker 4: I apologize, like I didn't realize I was going thirty
Speaker 4: eight and to thirty five. He's like, a right, give
Speaker 4: me a second, do you have your license? Gave my license?
Speaker 4: He walks away seemed like forever, then comes back to
Speaker 4: the car. Finally he's like, I'm gonna let you off
Speaker 4: with a warning, but you better not come through here
Speaker 4: speeding again. And I'm just like took my license back.
Speaker 4: I'm just like getting chills thinking about it. And then
Speaker 4: like Rachel was crying in the car. She's just like
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry, Like I just I had no idea
Speaker 4: because we'd never had an experience like that, And moments
Speaker 4: like that is when it's like the because it's like
Speaker 4: that's what like potentially our kids would have to deal
Speaker 4: with And that's what life's like when you know you're
Speaker 4: in certain parts of the world.
Speaker 1: So we we had several of those. I was going
Speaker 1: to ask you how she reacted.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she was, she was not okay, like she was flustered.
Speaker 1: But describe again, and I want Ropes to hear this.
Speaker 1: When you get pulled over, what do you do? What
Speaker 1: do you do as soon as you see the lights?
Speaker 1: Just what is your process in the car took?
Speaker 4: I turned the car off, I put the keys on
Speaker 4: top of the car. I rolled down every single window
Speaker 4: in the car, rolled down the back windows, I rolled
Speaker 4: down the front windows. I turned the lights on in
Speaker 4: the car. I have my hands on the steering wheel
Speaker 4: like this, and I'm like shaking because I don't know
Speaker 4: what's gonna happen, Like I don't know, Like I'm trying
Speaker 4: to think of what I did. I'm like like everything's
Speaker 4: racing through my Head's like did I just run a
Speaker 4: red light that I hit somebody? Like what did I do?
Speaker 4: And like you're just like I feel like I was.
Speaker 4: There was no benefit of the doubt in that moment,
Speaker 4: or there was no yeah, there was no I wasn't
Speaker 4: given any benefit of the doubt, Like it was just like,
Speaker 4: we're gonna find something. And you know, I'm not saying
Speaker 4: that every situation is like that. It just happened that
Speaker 4: that just happened to happen that night like that. And
Speaker 4: I usually have positive interactions with law enforcement. I don't ever,
Speaker 4: you know, find myself. They're typically helping me for something,
Speaker 4: but in this situation, it was it was scary for
Speaker 4: both of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, those are the eye opening moments that
Speaker 2: I would be willing to say most white people can't
Speaker 2: even imagine. It's something you actually almost need to see
Speaker 2: to really really understand and get Someone can say it,
Speaker 2: but when you're in it and you watch it and
Speaker 2: you witness it, it's a completely different experience. And again
Speaker 2: it's still a different experience for me because, as you
Speaker 2: pointed out, the police officer asked Rachel if she was okay,
Speaker 2: and that is that is one of those moments where
Speaker 2: you're just like, holy crap, So do you all I
Speaker 2: don't even know in terms of just how you all
Speaker 2: are generally recive. Do you do you have to deal
Speaker 2: with ugly comments? Do you have to deal with critics?
Speaker 2: I mean, and how do you deal with with with
Speaker 2: those types of people in the scrutiny that almost anyone
Speaker 2: who's a public.
Speaker 3: Couple would have to deal with. How do you guys
Speaker 3: handle that?
Speaker 4: I think so much of what Rachel and I share
Speaker 4: and promote on our social platforms is just love positivity,
Speaker 4: like joyfulness, Like we're not digging into the tea behind
Speaker 4: this or like trying to pick apart the negativity here,
Speaker 4: like we're only about the positivity. So like we don't
Speaker 4: even have a breeding ground for like that type of narrative.
Speaker 4: Like if they want that, like there's a million outlets
Speaker 4: for that, Like they can go to this page for
Speaker 4: the gossip, they can go to this page for the
Speaker 4: tea and for the drama. Like that's not really where
Speaker 4: it happens, but if there, if it does happen on
Speaker 4: in our comments or in our messages, it's just as
Speaker 4: simple as a block and a and a you know,
Speaker 4: a deleting.
Speaker 3: A block and a delete. I love a block and athlete.
Speaker 2: In fact, my kids showed me and they went through
Speaker 2: my stuff and there's like key words that you can save.
Speaker 2: Any of these comments have these keywords in it, they
Speaker 2: aren't seen that's crazy, right. I took my young daughter
Speaker 2: on all platforms, TikTok and Instagram. My girls last week
Speaker 2: went through and said, here are the keywords, and I
Speaker 2: won't go through them.
Speaker 3: But he started laughing coming up with them.
Speaker 2: And now that they've gone through, like these twelve words,
Speaker 2: one word, give.
Speaker 4: Us one word, give us one. There's got to be
Speaker 4: one that's appropriate, is it?
Speaker 1: I mean, now, wait, so you can idental, you can
Speaker 1: listen to words.
Speaker 3: You can listen and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, wait time, I'm just imagining you and your daughters.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and we did that.
Speaker 2: It's totally worked because if you start to look at
Speaker 2: the negative comments, they all kind of say the same thing.
Speaker 3: So you just pick out the.
Speaker 2: Words and then now I have nothing well mostly just
Speaker 2: positive things now. So it's been actually a game changer.
Speaker 2: So just in you have to deal with that, like.
Speaker 1: Two words I need to take out.
Speaker 2: I actually don't want to give them any life. That's
Speaker 2: actually why I don't want to say them. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh yeah, but I'm thinking you could probably
Speaker 2: figure out what the words are. I actually just don't
Speaker 2: want to give them any power. So I don't want
Speaker 2: to save them out loud, because then people might try
Speaker 2: to find another word to get around it, and I.
Speaker 3: Don't want to give anybody any ideas what words I
Speaker 3: used to block. It's a game. It makes a difference,
Speaker 3: It makes a total difference.
Speaker 1: You know you you're like you said, but you're a
Speaker 1: big part and there's so much there. I mean, God,
Speaker 1: how many blogs or sites or dedicated to just Bachelor Nation?
Speaker 4: Do you?
Speaker 1: Are you a proud alum of Bachelor Nation?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean it gave me one of the best things
Speaker 4: that's ever happened to me, which is my relationship with Rachel.
Speaker 4: Like I wouldn't be in I wouldn't be in a
Speaker 4: relationship with the woman I love if it wasn't for
Speaker 4: the show. And there was more positive than negative that
Speaker 4: came from it. There's negativity and everything, but if you
Speaker 4: and if we decided to dwell on it, then that
Speaker 4: just tarnishes anything. Like there's probably an experience we all
Speaker 4: had in college where it's like, when someone asked you
Speaker 4: about college, you think about the best times you had.
Speaker 4: It's like, man, that one time where I failed that
Speaker 4: test and I was hungover, Like, no, you don't think
Speaker 4: about that stuff. You think about all of the things
Speaker 4: that made that experience joyful, and yeah, I am happy
Speaker 4: about I'm happy, I'm proud about the experience. But a
Speaker 4: lot of what comes with being a part of that
Speaker 4: show is speculating on relationships and rumors and gossip and
Speaker 4: weighing in on things, and frankly, I don't want to
Speaker 4: be a part of anything negative into anybody's life. So
Speaker 4: that's the only reason why I steer clear of those
Speaker 4: type of conversations. So like, there's I have love for everybody,
Speaker 4: like I don't have ill will towards anybody, And if
Speaker 4: anybody ever reaches out to me, I'm there to chop
Speaker 4: it up with him, but I'll never go out of
Speaker 4: my way to like, you know, insert myself into something
Speaker 4: that a place I don't think I should be. But
Speaker 4: if someone reaches out, I'm there. And I've had a
Speaker 4: bunch of former Bachelor and Bachelorettes reach out after the
Speaker 4: season being like, how did you navigate this? How do
Speaker 4: you navigate that? And I'm there to give advice and
Speaker 4: a sounding board, and I'll reach out similar to how
Speaker 4: our conversations were when you were going through stuff to
Speaker 4: know that, like you know, sometimes you're living in a bubble,
Speaker 4: like it's like you think that you're at you know,
Speaker 4: you're at the grocery store and you're like, oh, that
Speaker 4: person knows about this. It's like, man, they're just trying
Speaker 4: to get cheese. Like so not everyone's always thinking about
Speaker 4: what you're going through, Like like, it's okay.
Speaker 2: Do you have a relationship with Have you talked to
Speaker 2: Chris Harrison at all after everything that happened.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're in the same fantasy league. We're in the
Speaker 4: same football fantasy league, so there's there. There have been
Speaker 4: multiple conversations there and we have mutual friends. One of
Speaker 4: my one of my really good friends, Jack Arnold, who's
Speaker 4: a chef, always face sounds me when he's with them,
Speaker 4: So there's no bad blood. Like I understand everyone has
Speaker 4: a job to do, and I, uh, you know, the
Speaker 4: way I look at everything in life is that I
Speaker 4: every single day in my life, I make horrible decisions
Speaker 4: like I, you know, might oversleep and I'll miss a
Speaker 4: train and I'll be late to something that has a
Speaker 4: ripple effect to something else. I'll get in a conversation,
Speaker 4: I'll say something to Rachel that I wish I could
Speaker 4: take back, and I'm given forgiveness for that, and so
Speaker 4: if I'm given forgiveness for the things that I do
Speaker 4: and wrong people like who am I not to forgive
Speaker 4: people who I think have had that similar experience. So,
Speaker 4: I mean, that's my healthy approach to dealing with anything
Speaker 4: with anybody that you know there might be bad blood.
Speaker 4: It's like, I'm not going to hold a grudge because
Speaker 4: you know, God doesn't hold a grudge for the things
Speaker 4: that I've done. And when I look, when I take
Speaker 4: that approach towards anything, then again, it promotes the positivity
Speaker 4: and I don't have time to dwell on the hate
Speaker 4: because it just it's it's not hurting that person, it's
Speaker 4: hurting you. You know, You're just it's just it's not
Speaker 4: worth it.
Speaker 1: You're in a fantasy league with them now. But it
Speaker 1: did take a while, did it? Or were there some
Speaker 1: early uncomfortable first few conversations or was it kind of
Speaker 1: squashed early on?
Speaker 4: It wasn't like like it wasn't even addressed. It wasn't
Speaker 4: even like like like from a in the fantasy I
Speaker 4: use the fantasy league as like a like if you
Speaker 4: had disdain or ill will for someone like I'm sure
Speaker 4: you probably wouldn't be in the same fantasy leagueism. But
Speaker 4: I say that to say that, like our fantasy league
Speaker 4: is about fantasy football, it's not about like the Matt
Speaker 4: and Chris relationship. But there we had. We had a
Speaker 4: conversation after uh, after everything's take place, after everything took place,
Speaker 4: and it was it was a good conversation. It wasn't
Speaker 4: I did. I didn't screen his call, like if he
Speaker 4: text me, I'll respond, But yeah, there was no there's
Speaker 4: no hard feelings for for anybody, just based off of
Speaker 4: the way that I look at life and the grace
Speaker 4: I'm shown.
Speaker 3: So do you think he should have left the Bachelor?
Speaker 3: He should have lost his job over that?
Speaker 4: I don't know, Like it's I don't I don't know
Speaker 4: who who I am to make that judgment call. I
Speaker 4: obviously didn't make it because you know he was, he
Speaker 4: was there after whatever we went through happened. But I
Speaker 4: don't wish. I don't wish anybody. I don't wish. I
Speaker 4: don't wish any harm on anybody. And when you have
Speaker 4: a situation like that, like what is the right way
Speaker 4: to go forward? Like who who who is to make
Speaker 4: that judgment call? So for him, I mean, whoever handled
Speaker 4: the situation handled it? How they best all fit, and
Speaker 4: the show goes on. I mean the show would and
Speaker 4: will be there long after he's gone, long after I'm gone.
Speaker 4: So I mean maybe something that was gonna happen inevitably
Speaker 4: just was sped up. And from what I've seen from
Speaker 4: him and his relationship with Lauren and what he's doing now,
Speaker 4: like it was a chapter. Like everything in life is
Speaker 4: a chapter, and I think it's dangerous when you make
Speaker 4: something that's meant to be a chapter your whole book.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean I don't know, do I think
Speaker 4: it was the right thing? Like, Thank goodness, I don't
Speaker 4: have to make any type of calls like that because
Speaker 4: you know, I probably make things based more off emotion
Speaker 4: than like how things should go. But yeah, like I said,
Speaker 4: the show will be here long after us, and some
Speaker 4: thing that would have happened inevitably just happened sooner.
Speaker 3: So you watching the current season?
Speaker 4: Uh there's no, no, no, but like like not because
Speaker 4: I don't want to watch it, Like well, I just
Speaker 4: like I'm watching like True Detective, Like there's like season four,
Speaker 4: like like what's her name?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were just talking about that show.
Speaker 4: I've this is a very weird reason to have a
Speaker 4: crush on somebody, but I had a crush on Jeddie
Speaker 4: Foster since like Silence of the Lamps.
Speaker 3: Such a good movie. Yes, yeah, so like Larry's yeah agent.
Speaker 4: So when she was gonna be on Detective season four,
Speaker 4: Like that's I mean, I'm watching TV. But and the
Speaker 4: thing about being a former uh lead you you get
Speaker 4: all the tea anyways, Like like I know what happened
Speaker 4: and what's gonna happen because I have friends who are producers.
Speaker 4: I have friends who you know, you're you're connected, so
Speaker 4: I know what's going on.
Speaker 3: You already know how it ends everything.
Speaker 1: I think you know how this season ends. Yeah, don't
Speaker 1: tell me that, because it's our job to get it
Speaker 1: out of you, just as much.
Speaker 4: As anybody else knows. Like, like who knows if it's true?
Speaker 4: Like from people I've talked to people who were there,
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, it could be a lie, but
Speaker 4: it's it's it was information that was offered up. You know.
Speaker 4: It's it's not like I was like, yeah, yeah, like,
Speaker 4: so tell me how it is.
Speaker 1: Wait, so what you're talking about is already out there? No, okay,
Speaker 1: so you know the post stuff and yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 1: piece together that it was probably this because he knows
Speaker 1: that you actually know right now who what happens at
Speaker 1: the end of this season with The Bachelor.
Speaker 3: Yes, based off what I was told from people who
Speaker 3: would know. Though, from people who would know, I have
Speaker 3: a question.
Speaker 2: Did you have you and Rachel together sat down and
Speaker 2: watched your season up The Bachelor?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 4: No, I don't think we'll ever watch the season together.
Speaker 4: And just because like it's it's a it's a weird
Speaker 4: dynamic because you're with that person now and you weren't
Speaker 4: together when you were making.
Speaker 3: You were kissing other women.
Speaker 4: You were kissing other women. But like I I am
Speaker 4: not ashamed of anything that I did or said on
Speaker 4: the show. And I think that I think one of
Speaker 4: the reasons why Rachel respects me as much as she
Speaker 4: does is the consistency and my messaging and my actions
Speaker 4: from the moment that we met to where we are now,
Speaker 4: because it hasn't changed. Yeah, you know, I wasn't and
Speaker 4: to each his own like, but I wasn't, you know,
Speaker 4: telling a lot of multiple people I loved them and
Speaker 4: just taking this opportunity to like sleep with a bunch
Speaker 4: of people, Like that's just not who I am. And
Speaker 4: does that happen on the show? Yeah, And like again
Speaker 4: like if that's how you want to go about finding
Speaker 4: the person you want to be with, like, I'm not
Speaker 4: stopping them because it gets people to that point, but
Speaker 4: it's not something I needed to do.
Speaker 2: Can you be in love with I mean, if you've
Speaker 2: watched any of these shows or any of these seasons,
Speaker 2: the question I think a lot of people ask, can
Speaker 2: you be in love with more than one person at
Speaker 2: the same time?
Speaker 4: I think you can lust more than one person at
Speaker 4: one time. But when you really love somebody and you've
Speaker 4: been in love, like, there's just certain things you wouldn't
Speaker 4: do to that person. So I think if you really
Speaker 4: love somebody, like if I'm telling you I love you
Speaker 4: and then I'm going to sleep with somebody else, Like
Speaker 4: I don't personally think that's love, but again in the
Speaker 4: figuring out process, like some people have to do certain
Speaker 4: things to figure out who they want to be with.
Speaker 4: And I'm not going to knock that because I'm not
Speaker 4: the love doctor.
Speaker 2: Well, and I asked if you and Rachel watched your
Speaker 2: season together, but have you individually and has she individually
Speaker 2: watched the season as it was released to the public.
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny. I think that like when the
Speaker 4: show's coming out, it's like so exciting, So like you're
Speaker 4: having these watch parties and like all her girlfriends are
Speaker 4: over and like, oh my gosh, like you're kind of
Speaker 4: have a limo. And then like see in week two
Speaker 4: and then and then it starts to get serious and
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, the watch parties kind of end.
Speaker 4: You know, you're not like tweeting about the episode. It's
Speaker 4: like you might have seen a very serious conversation with
Speaker 4: somebody else. So it's it's it gets weird. Yeah, it
Speaker 4: gets weird.
Speaker 3: It's hard. I mean, I'm imagining how hard that would be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I mean, and but the thing with Rachel
Speaker 4: and I is she knew where I stood, like I
Speaker 4: and I told her. I gave her confirmation on my
Speaker 4: feelings for her. And but she could have taken that
Speaker 4: any way she wanted. She could have been like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's probably telling everybody that and that's just not who
Speaker 4: I am. I'm sure people, you know, tell a bunch
Speaker 4: of people that, Yo, this is us, this is us,
Speaker 4: this is us. But you know, she took my word
Speaker 4: at face value, and like that trust is like built
Speaker 4: the love and admiration I have for her because I'm like,
Speaker 4: she for no, like there's no reason why she should
Speaker 4: have trusted anything I said.
Speaker 3: She didn't really know me like seven hours.
Speaker 4: Right until yeah, maybe less, but like she she believed
Speaker 4: me and like trusted me in like that meant a lot.
Speaker 4: Like she's like okay, like never faltered from it. I'm
Speaker 4: just like, dang, she's a real one.
Speaker 1: It's amazing to hear you because again, we have obviously
Speaker 1: robes and I have been through a lot when it
Speaker 1: comes to relationships and it comes to marriages and being
Speaker 1: in a relationship publicly and in a racial relationship, all this.
Speaker 1: But you are sitting here talking about Rachel in such
Speaker 1: a way, in a loving way that we always say
Speaker 1: this love relationships, marriage, It's messy sometimes. And to see
Speaker 1: you sitting here at this point, this happy and speaking
Speaker 1: this publicly and strongly about her, given that, yeah, you
Speaker 1: had to go on a show, you were the first
Speaker 1: black bachelor, Your season went the hell because of controversy
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. You break up with her,
Speaker 1: you get back with her, but that is messy as hell.
Speaker 1: But you're sitting here happy at this end, and I
Speaker 1: don't know how any of us could not be happy
Speaker 1: or take you with your face value that you love her,
Speaker 1: And it's just another great example of is just messy
Speaker 1: and ugly sometimes to get to this point.
Speaker 3: What a journey man.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's a rider, like she's There's this trend for
Speaker 4: a while where people were telling their they were coming home,
Speaker 4: and the parents were coming home to their kids, and
Speaker 4: they were telling their kid like, let's say, your little
Speaker 4: son's name is Billy. You're coming, like Billy, Like this
Speaker 4: little kid down the street picked a fight with me.
Speaker 4: The parents said like, I need you to go beat
Speaker 4: this kid up. And Billy gets up, He's all right,
Speaker 4: let's go. And like these little kids were like riding
Speaker 4: out for their parents. And I feel like, Rachel, if
Speaker 4: there was anything I ever need, like Rachel, I need
Speaker 4: you to do, like not to beat somebody up, but
Speaker 4: like there's just nothing that like there's just so much
Speaker 4: love there that like she would we would do anything
Speaker 4: for each other.
Speaker 1: Am I the only one that he was telling that story.
Speaker 1: All I saw now was a like a little baby
Speaker 1: Rachel going out and beating somebody up.
Speaker 3: Well, can you?
Speaker 2: I mean? And I don't want to harp on the negative,
Speaker 2: but I think it's important to recognize where you've been
Speaker 2: to figure out or at least the perspective of where
Speaker 2: you are.
Speaker 3: What was the lowest moment.
Speaker 4: MM Probably when I thought that I would never talk
Speaker 4: to her again. And that was like right after the
Speaker 4: show when we broke up, because I felt like it
Speaker 4: was the right thing to do. I'm like, yeah, guys,
Speaker 4: like everyone out there like we did it, like I
Speaker 4: did it, like I did it.
Speaker 3: You felt pressure to break up with her?
Speaker 4: I just felt like I felt like there was something
Speaker 4: that that conversation we had at the end of the
Speaker 4: show on like the AFR man that was tough. That
Speaker 4: was like I don't think we were together at that
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we weren't together.
Speaker 3: Weren't together, right, Yeah, you guys were, Yeah.
Speaker 4: We went. That was like the first time I'd seen
Speaker 4: him forever, and like you're just like forced to have
Speaker 4: this like conversation with someone that you like still love
Speaker 4: you're not together because like you don't really know if
Speaker 4: you know each other because like that seven hours, it's
Speaker 4: like like I think I know you, Like I think
Speaker 4: what we experienced was real, but like is it real?
Speaker 4: Like are you really this much of a rider, like,
Speaker 4: are you really this down for me? And like that
Speaker 4: takes years to figure out? Like from my experience, it
Speaker 4: took us almost ten. Yeah, Like I mean, so that
Speaker 4: was like kind of what I was trying to figure out.
Speaker 4: I'm like, do I like, is she who she says
Speaker 4: she is? And once I figured out that she was
Speaker 4: and she never faltered off that, I'm like, man, I
Speaker 4: can't let this go. But yeah, that was the craziest thing.
Speaker 4: It's like trying to discern what is and isn't real,
Speaker 4: and it was she was real the whole time.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and you can knock me down for this,
Speaker 1: but I I'm trying to think if we've talked about
Speaker 1: this privately before I say this here. No, No, it's
Speaker 1: not a bad thing, but it does play a role.
Speaker 1: It played a role with us recently. But so much
Speaker 1: of what was coming at you and coming at her
Speaker 1: at the time had to do with her doing something
Speaker 1: that many viewed as racist. And here you are, as
Speaker 1: a black man being celebrated, applauded, and we all applauded
Speaker 1: the show, even like all right, you got a brother
Speaker 1: in there. That's great, And what did you feel even
Speaker 1: if it was perceived from the black community. It say, Wow,
Speaker 1: everybody loves me, They're down for me, and now I
Speaker 1: love this girl. I think I love this girl. This
Speaker 1: is something special with her that they are looking at
Speaker 1: her now, Like how dare How could I as a
Speaker 1: black man be with a woman that everybody thinks is
Speaker 1: this thing? How did you deal with that in your
Speaker 1: own head? Like I said, some of it might have
Speaker 1: been perceived, but some of it was actually out there
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is like the most like politically incorrect way
Speaker 4: to draw a comparison. But I recently watched the OJ
Speaker 4: documentary and which was I mean, the way that the
Speaker 4: story was I want alive during that time, so I
Speaker 4: had no idea and I'm learning in real time, and
Speaker 4: as I watched the trial play on and the verdict
Speaker 4: come out, and this is my interpretation of it, it
Speaker 4: was less about the verdict and it was more about
Speaker 4: black first white. And so when I think about our relationship,
Speaker 4: it was more. It was less about the love and
Speaker 4: it was more about the black first white. And when
Speaker 4: when that's the case, like you lose sight of what's important.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that answers the question, but that's
Speaker 4: I get it.
Speaker 3: I get it. We were alive for the trial. In fact,
Speaker 3: I was in a newsroom.
Speaker 4: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: That's how an age gaft. I was in a classroom. Still,
Speaker 2: that was my first job. It was my first job
Speaker 2: in college. Oh, my first year in high school. Yeah,
Speaker 2: stop it, that is not true. That is not true.
Speaker 2: But I remember being in my in in my first newsroom.
Speaker 2: I think I was twenty two and watching Oprah and
Speaker 2: watching the black reaction versus the white reaction when it
Speaker 2: all it was, it's funny. I get what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I totally get what you're saying. It makes sense. I
Speaker 2: want to also ask about we can't not ask about
Speaker 2: your mom. I mean, your mom joined that was crazy
Speaker 2: Bachelor Nation.
Speaker 3: What was that like for you? As her son?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 4: I was happy for you know, I'm pro like anybody
Speaker 4: being happy. So like this opportunity made her really excited
Speaker 4: about something I'd never seen her excited about and dating
Speaker 4: and getting back out there like and I say never,
Speaker 4: but like in a long time, because the order you get,
Speaker 4: the prospects dry up and it's not impossible, but like
Speaker 4: it's tough. I can't imagine and I can't imagine what
Speaker 4: mom goes through so like to see the opportunity for
Speaker 4: that for her. I was stoked. I was I was
Speaker 4: really happy.
Speaker 3: Is she bag out? Is she dating?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 4: She is? She is out there, Yeah, she's she is dating.
Speaker 3: So she on like dating apps.
Speaker 4: I don't think she knows how to use any apps.
Speaker 3: How does she meet people that she goes on? Reality shows?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's a.
Speaker 4: Well she This is gonna sound so silly.
Speaker 3: I know how you preface so much so many of
Speaker 3: your stories.
Speaker 4: Well, I about to say it. I'm just like what
Speaker 4: I was going to say is that like there's oh
Speaker 4: my gosh, there's a pickleball club that she's in. Now cool,
Speaker 4: So like there's like, you know, you do stuff like that.
Speaker 4: And like I'm not saying pickleballs for like retirees, but
Speaker 4: I love pickleball. But yeah, she does stuff like that.
Speaker 4: There's like there's she goes to shows, comedy, wine nights,
Speaker 4: like just events where you can meet people and not
Speaker 4: all of them are singles, but like you know, if
Speaker 4: someone meets my mom and they know she's single, they're like, oh,
Speaker 4: like I know blonde who uh you know, they try
Speaker 4: to like love, they try to do matchmakers. So I'm
Speaker 4: like the I tell my mom, she's so comfortable in
Speaker 4: her in her home, like and her routine. But the
Speaker 4: more you put yourself out there, I mean you can't.
Speaker 4: Opportunity just doesn't come to you. Like you've got to
Speaker 4: present yourself so that things can come your way. So
Speaker 4: the more she goes out there.
Speaker 1: And you knew what happened on the show before everybody,
Speaker 1: So what did you think when you did?
Speaker 2: You?
Speaker 3: I assume you watched it.
Speaker 4: No, I didn't watch.
Speaker 3: You didn't really you didn't watch?
Speaker 4: I mean I was bummed, Like I knew it was
Speaker 4: gonna happen, so like, yeah, I was sad. She called
Speaker 4: me and she was really upset. And but I mean
Speaker 4: it's you know, it's it's that's the game, like it's
Speaker 4: a it wasn't you know, the Patty James Show. It
Speaker 4: was you know, it's the Bat, it's the Golden Bachelor.
Speaker 4: So if it wasn't who she ended up with, it
Speaker 4: wasn't who she was supposed to be with.
Speaker 3: Did she watch it?
Speaker 4: She freaking watched every episode?
Speaker 3: YEA, loved it. Did she like the outcome? Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean I think that the outcome was right, But
Speaker 4: I think that she would have liked a little bit
Speaker 4: more time to get to that. Yeah, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, Like, I think that ultimately it wasn't the
Speaker 4: person she was supposed to be with, But if there
Speaker 4: was time to explore that relationship, I think she would
Speaker 4: have had a little bit more of like a like anybody.
Speaker 4: I don't think anybody wants to go home in the
Speaker 4: first night.
Speaker 1: No, she didn't roll like Hassan. She needs more seven
Speaker 1: hours to figure it out. What would you say is
Speaker 1: the current health of the Bachelor Bachelor at franchise? Given that,
Speaker 1: I mean they were controversies or ratings have been up
Speaker 1: and down, but now the new season seems like the
Speaker 1: ratings are solid. The Golden Bachelor was huge. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: what do you think the health of the franchise is
Speaker 1: right now?
Speaker 4: I just think that this has nothing to do with
Speaker 4: The Bachelor or the Golden Bachelor, the Bachelor or Bachelor
Speaker 4: in Paradise. There's just so much competition. It's like asking,
Speaker 4: like what do I think about Red Bull. It's like,
Speaker 4: you know, they've got Celsius, They've got freaking like, there's
Speaker 4: so many it's saturated, Like you got Love Island. Love
Speaker 4: is blind too hot to handle? Like there's a million
Speaker 4: places that you can go to get that fix. Whereas
Speaker 4: back in the day the Bachelor and you know, the
Speaker 4: offsets of it were.
Speaker 1: It but for the lack of diversity that they try
Speaker 1: to now improve, or I guess they got the whole
Speaker 1: situation worked out now for diversifying the contestants, for for
Speaker 1: all the changes, I guess the tweaks they tried to make.
Speaker 4: So just looking at the Bachelor, not looking at the pool.
Speaker 1: Of well, I don't even know about Bachelor in Paradise,
Speaker 1: but I guess I'm just about Bachelor and Bachelorette the.
Speaker 3: Favorite. We'll get on that today.
Speaker 1: But you know, for the health and for what it
Speaker 1: went through taking some public hits, if you will.
Speaker 3: Over the years.
Speaker 4: I think that people like to romanticize things. I think
Speaker 4: people romanticize, you know, the Yankees when by Ruth Paid
Speaker 4: played for him. I think that people romanticize the Bulls
Speaker 4: when Michael Jordan played for him. But the reality is,
Speaker 4: you know, things change, people change, and your options change.
Speaker 4: So I think that people romanticize the time where they
Speaker 4: got a certain they felt a certain feeling from watching
Speaker 4: the show that you know, you can get that so
Speaker 4: many different places now, like things change, and like as
Speaker 4: things change, your perspective has to change. So I think
Speaker 4: that it's fine. Like I I like as as someone
Speaker 4: who like is a creative and like tries to think
Speaker 4: of you know, fun and enticing ways to to showcase
Speaker 4: food or whatever. Like, I think that, like there's nothing
Speaker 4: that I think could spice it up anymore than there.
Speaker 4: I think they're doing a great job. Like, I think
Speaker 4: it just stinks that, like nowadays, they have competition with
Speaker 4: all these streaming services and all these like other shows
Speaker 4: that offer, you know, whatever you want.
Speaker 3: Would you ever host it or want to host it?
Speaker 4: Even whatever? I want to host The Bachelor, I wouldn't.
Speaker 4: I don't think i'd want to host The Bachelor. I
Speaker 4: think that's an amazing opportunity. I would love to host
Speaker 4: something like I love interacting with people and having conversations.
Speaker 3: Why not The Bachelor?
Speaker 4: Though? The Bachelor, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I we love the pauses. Mad James is like, I
Speaker 3: cannot tell a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just I have to.
Speaker 3: Be honest and figure out how to best land this well.
Speaker 4: I want to be honest. I'm I just I just
Speaker 4: don't see it like what I want to host something
Speaker 4: absolutely family feud, like a eating contest, but like like
Speaker 4: there's something, there's a there's a connotation that comes with
Speaker 4: hosting that, and you put yourself in that, you put
Speaker 4: yourself back in that atmosphere. And that's the thing I
Speaker 4: was trying to say that. That was one of the
Speaker 4: things I was trying to avoid is being in a
Speaker 4: space that you know is kind of toxic. And I
Speaker 4: think that if you roll around in that space that
Speaker 4: you know, you you open yourself up to that because
Speaker 4: you have to be you have to have an opinion
Speaker 4: on things, and like it just.
Speaker 3: When you roll around in the mud, you get dirty.
Speaker 4: Yeah I don't, No, I I.
Speaker 3: Why is that so funny?
Speaker 1: Tell you all the time. You're the funniest person I know,
Speaker 1: you really are.
Speaker 2: Oh, what what's next for you? We I love following
Speaker 2: your adventures. You're a world traveler and you certainly like
Speaker 2: to eat. What's next for you?
Speaker 4: Where do I start? I've I love running. It's just
Speaker 4: been like my peace place. Uh and so yeah, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna try to run the London. Well, I'm going to
Speaker 4: run the London.
Speaker 3: May I think you're gonna Yeah, You're gonna probably succeed at.
Speaker 4: That I'm gonna run the London Marathon. I'm gonna try
Speaker 4: to get Rachel into a race. We're gonna get her
Speaker 4: in a five k Yeah, down in Disney, Disney five k.
Speaker 4: It's a nice she loves Disney, so like any way
Speaker 4: to like entice her into you know, not being mad
Speaker 4: about me buying so many running shoes, Like, we figure
Speaker 4: out a way that.
Speaker 1: We would love to run with you down at that
Speaker 1: five k. I don't think we're allowed on the parks
Speaker 1: crowns anymore. I don't think we'll check, well, right last
Speaker 1: week check if we weren't. But we'll pick you in
Speaker 1: some cool Disney costume we can all.
Speaker 4: I'll be frozened, missing crediblej can throw a beard?
Speaker 3: Is there another one? That's the other one?
Speaker 4: I could be this is hilarious, you could be this
Speaker 4: is the princess and the frog. What's the bad guy's name? Nice?
Speaker 3: Let's not finish this.
Speaker 1: That's not.
Speaker 5: He's a good looking brother, dude, I got no problem
Speaker 5: just trying to label me even as a cartoon villain,
Speaker 5: stale man, many of us you know what you know
Speaker 5: what you take proa.
Speaker 3: Wait, London marathon? What marathon? Will that be for you.
Speaker 2: How many of you run?
Speaker 4: That'll be London Marathon will be like number six. But
Speaker 4: I'm trying to get I'm gonna do all the major
Speaker 4: Oh I.
Speaker 3: Wanted to do that too.
Speaker 4: We can still do all right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, what have you done? Major wise?
Speaker 4: Boston, Chicago, New York? But I want to hit sub
Speaker 4: three and all of them, so like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 4: gotta go for it.
Speaker 2: I gotta go for Boston is the one that scares me.
Speaker 2: That's the one I'm going to leave till the end.
Speaker 2: I've done Chicago, New York, Berlin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've done the flat one yeah, and then the home.
Speaker 3: I'm so afraid of Boston.
Speaker 4: You just trained the hills and you'll be fine. Just
Speaker 4: do the lap in Central Park.
Speaker 1: Point you get London. What do you got so Tokyo
Speaker 1: and what's have Tokyo? Berlin, Berlin in London.
Speaker 4: But I gotta do Chicago, Boston and New York again
Speaker 4: because I have to get under three. You don't have to,
Speaker 4: but I need to.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you want to?
Speaker 4: I'm yeah. But then I've been doing a lot of
Speaker 4: other fun stuff too. I I got to host a
Speaker 4: bunch of different things this year, and that was a
Speaker 4: lot of fun, Just like getting to pick other people's
Speaker 4: brain and sit across from people that I respect and
Speaker 4: have important conversations and get people to think about an
Speaker 4: important topic differently than how they came into it. So, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's fun.
Speaker 3: What here's my favorite thing.
Speaker 2: We've joked about this, but when you're in broadcasting, usually
Speaker 2: one of the questions that producers have you act, oh God,
Speaker 2: somebody here, is there anything that we didn't ask you
Speaker 2: that you'd like to let the listeners know?
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, that's great. I mean, honestly, all I'd have
Speaker 4: you already. We tackled this already. But the thing that
Speaker 4: I would want to leave people with is just to
Speaker 4: have grace on themselves and on others, because life is
Speaker 4: hard and people are good, and we make mistakes, and
Speaker 4: if you are perfect, then this doesn't apply to you.
Speaker 3: Ha ha.
Speaker 1: Isn't it something we are We are so quick to
Speaker 1: judge everybody else by their worst mistakes, and we judge
Speaker 1: ourselves by our best intentions. And we've learned this more
Speaker 1: and more over the past year, and it's funny, and
Speaker 1: mattaw I have said it to you privately tons of times,
Speaker 1: and this is an opportunity I think it might be
Speaker 1: the first opportunity I've had to say it to you
Speaker 1: in a public format. But it meant everything to me.
Speaker 1: You meant everything to me in the worst stretch of
Speaker 1: my personal life professional life, right even to get that message,
Speaker 1: to get even when I didn't respond to you, to
Speaker 1: get a follow up, to have you just say how
Speaker 1: you doing or I'm here?
Speaker 3: You didn't.
Speaker 1: You didn't say, hey, what do you need? You know,
Speaker 1: what can I bring you? I want to do this.
Speaker 1: You didn't even give me some Bible quote right, just
Speaker 1: I'm here. That meant everything to me at that time.
Speaker 1: And I know you could relate to a lot of
Speaker 1: what was going on with me and was going on
Speaker 1: with Robes at the time. Brother, it meant everything. So
Speaker 1: I encourage you and anybody else listening, man, pick up
Speaker 1: your phone right this moment and check on somebody just
Speaker 1: to stay hi, who's going through? But brother, it meant
Speaker 1: everything to me and one of the worst parts of
Speaker 1: my life that you, well I wasn't that close to
Speaker 1: even at the time. I don't, yeah, but to be
Speaker 1: there and show up for me was everything. So this
Speaker 1: is love you, brother, and I'm always rooting for you
Speaker 1: and rooting for Rachel and whatever comes.
Speaker 3: Man, but you've it meant a.
Speaker 4: I love you too, bro. I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Amy, thank you.
Speaker 3: Oh you have that look on your face.
Speaker 2: Well you know I was gonna even say, like, thank
Speaker 2: you just as TJ's girlfriend, which I know you love
Speaker 2: that word, but thank you for being there for him
Speaker 2: because I could be there for him obviously as his girlfriend,
Speaker 2: but to have the support he needed from other people
Speaker 2: and especially from someone like you, was everything. Like it
Speaker 2: really did make a huge difference. And yeah, you showed
Speaker 2: up at my birthday party.
Speaker 4: I was going to say it's I was going to
Speaker 4: say that like it takes it's it's both ways though,
Speaker 4: because like TJ could have said, like, man, forget this guy,
Speaker 4: because like you know, in that moment, you don't want
Speaker 4: to talk to anybody, But you guys invited me in,
Speaker 4: and I appreciate you because I've gotten to see I've
Speaker 4: gotten to experience your life and how rich it is.
Speaker 4: So it's been it's been amazing. Like anytime I get
Speaker 4: invited over to y'all's apartment, I will accept that invitation
Speaker 4: with open arms because I'm going to be around friends
Speaker 4: and family.
Speaker 3: Still have that bottle of tequila.
Speaker 1: You still have that cover from the Mary. You showed up.
Speaker 1: You showed up after the marathon.
Speaker 4: I came. I came after the marathon in my cape.
Speaker 1: Yeah mind you. This was like seven hours after the race.
Speaker 1: He still ain't been in the shower. He's show up.
Speaker 4: You know when when you run the marathon. I if
Speaker 4: you run the marathon, I'll wear that metal for a week.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I ran the marathon.
Speaker 3: You're a superhero.
Speaker 4: Oh this Cape? Oh yeah, I just ran the marathon.
Speaker 3: Doesn't it feel good?
Speaker 4: Though?
Speaker 2: Afterwards you're walking through the streets of New York and
Speaker 2: everyone's like congratulations, and you're like, hell yeah, thank you
Speaker 2: very much because I earned this.
Speaker 4: It's the best Rachel. Rachel was ready to just like
Speaker 4: light that Cape on fire just because anybody, no one
Speaker 4: was even saying it that walk like, oh me ran
Speaker 4: the marathon, thank you. I was playing into it at
Speaker 4: that point.
Speaker 1: Man. We are We absolutely will have you back on.
Speaker 1: We'll get We'll get Rachel in here at some point.
Speaker 4: You gotta get her.
Speaker 1: I So we'll get her in here minus you, and
Speaker 1: we'll bring y'all together and see how the stories match
Speaker 1: up at some point.
Speaker 4: Dang, that would be the truth test if I was
Speaker 4: fibbing or not.
Speaker 1: Brother, appreciate everything, and folks, you know where to find Matt,
Speaker 1: you know where to find Robot, you know where to
Speaker 1: find me. We're all on TikTok all on Instagram. You
Speaker 1: can find the show at Amy and TJ podcast. But
Speaker 1: like you said, spread some love, check all those you love,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you back here next time.