1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,080
Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,720
Speaker 2: I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina. Man, you kidding me?

3
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: And it starts right.

4
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:25,080
Speaker 3: I'm recording now, recording. Oh hell no, I ain't. Come on.

5
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 4: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of West Love Supreme.

6
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,560
Speaker 1: It was quest Love with me of course. Uh, Team

7
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,120
Speaker 1: Supreme fon Tigelow in a new location.

8
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, yeah, man came down to Charlotte.

9
00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 5: He gets working for a couple of days and yeah, bro, yo,

10
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,320
Speaker 5: yo man, I had to I'm meant to tell you too.

11
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,880
Speaker 3: I think I may be joining you. I ain't going

12
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 3: as crazy as you going with.

13
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,760
Speaker 5: It, but I've drastically cut down my meat into.

14
00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,920
Speaker 3: There you go bright like drastically. I still I mean,

15
00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:02,840
Speaker 3: I still do my fish.

16
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 2: I love.

17
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:04,760
Speaker 5: I can eat fish like every day of the week,

18
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,200
Speaker 5: and uh still do my you know, my chicken. I

19
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,920
Speaker 5: do like you know chicken, but uh like beef or

20
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:12,559
Speaker 5: like I think, yeah that.

21
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,880
Speaker 1: It might be wrapped. Bro, we might make it the seventies.

22
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 6: Make sure you're replacing that iron. Just make sure you're

23
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 6: replacing that iron with something.

24
00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,200
Speaker 3: Man, I be drinking metal musle in the morning. I

25
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 3: feel old.

26
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,319
Speaker 5: Keep doing George Loe Man listen to keep that cholestero

27
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 5: all down.

28
00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,040
Speaker 1: Speaking of what's up sugar, Steve? How you making out?

29
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,920
Speaker 7: Oh my god, you're just talking about meat? Makes me

30
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,679
Speaker 7: want a steak. You know, I don't know, I do

31
00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,360
Speaker 7: everything bad, so I might I might not make it

32
00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:44,880
Speaker 7: to seventy.

33
00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:52,440
Speaker 8: But I love y'all, loveye, I'm everything's okay to be

34
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 8: with with everybody here and looking forward to great.

35
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 4: Everyone's fine. You just you just recorded an album for

36
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:00,000
Speaker 4: your label.

37
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 7: We recorded, We recorded two full records in two days

38
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,239
Speaker 7: for David Murray was one of the records and London,

39
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 7: a h Norwegian guitarist was another one. That's JMI Recordings

40
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,880
Speaker 7: dot Com. Everybody.

41
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 4: We we joke, we joke about Steve's new Fountain celebrity.

42
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,200
Speaker 4: But Steve has definitely done a lot of pivot work

43
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,239
Speaker 4: in the last few years, developing really just living in

44
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,960
Speaker 4: his dream, like you know, recording and putting out is

45
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 4: you know, after you collect every jazz record, I guess.

46
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 1: The next thing is you have to be start making

47
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 1: them start. Yeah, you're the new tailor, so that's right.

48
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:41,600
Speaker 2: You know.

49
00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 7: The label started right around when this podcast started, about

50
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:45,720
Speaker 7: five years ago.

51
00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 1: Five years old. You have a new background. You look

52
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 1: like you're on a tour bus right now.

53
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:51,960
Speaker 2: I'm not.

54
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,240
Speaker 6: I'm in my new spot, but.

55
00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 1: You just have tour bus curtains.

56
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,360
Speaker 9: Well, from this, this is way better than the paper

57
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:04,200
Speaker 9: with the paper clip.

58
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,040
Speaker 1: You just it looks it kind of looks like a

59
00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 1: tour bus.

60
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,560
Speaker 6: Okay.

61
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 9: These are the factory blinds they gave me at the

62
00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 9: new spot, and I'm real happy to be.

63
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,560
Speaker 4: At Okay, Well, you're making out everything's fine.

64
00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,280
Speaker 9: Living good and the blackest and neighborhoods in Los Angeles.

65
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 9: Holly Louijash shout out to a Stelle who took me

66
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,120
Speaker 9: around and showed me the good corner stores I am living.

67
00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,160
Speaker 6: That's like, yeah, we'll just.

68
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,359
Speaker 1: Be careful because a lot's going on in LA that.

69
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 6: Is happening to very rich people, very rich people who have.

70
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 9: Say that to me, Like, because everybody who tells me

71
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 9: to well, I'm being specific because people have said that

72
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 9: to me a lot out from outside of LA and

73
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 9: I don't think they understand that the people who are

74
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,400
Speaker 9: getting robbed are not in my tax.

75
00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 6: It's like criminals just figured out rich people.

76
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's what Well, Okay, let's hear everyone's moving

77
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,480
Speaker 4: to a pivot where we now you know, now, let

78
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 4: me not even put that out there, lazy gentleman. I

79
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 4: will say that our guest today is the founding member

80
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:14,240
Speaker 4: of probably one of the most legendary futuristic electric funk

81
00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:19,559
Speaker 4: duos professionally and better known as The System. What made

82
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,760
Speaker 4: The System unique is the kind of space that they

83
00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,839
Speaker 4: occupied at a time period in which new ideas and

84
00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,200
Speaker 4: new concepts were happening in real time.

85
00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 1: And this is like the post.

86
00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 4: Disco Leroy Burgess era of boogie, in which it was

87
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 4: needed of a jolt. You know, It's like new wave

88
00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,240
Speaker 4: was sort of coming in for a lot of the

89
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,720
Speaker 4: pop acts. And you know, of course, Prince finally had

90
00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 4: control of the wheel and made the entire world take

91
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,080
Speaker 4: notice of his vision, even made like Leon Silvers in

92
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,000
Speaker 4: the West Coast take note of his vision. Meanwhile, I'll

93
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,120
Speaker 4: say that in New York City, you know, club culture,

94
00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 4: dance culture sort of reached a boil where hip hop

95
00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,400
Speaker 4: was slow creeping into We're dipping their toes in the water,

96
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,360
Speaker 4: and you know, for the first time you're hearing songs

97
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,920
Speaker 4: with a little harder edge to it, and R and

98
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,480
Speaker 4: B and funk you know, acts were slowly dipping their

99
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,479
Speaker 4: toes in the water using like futuristic synth sounds and

100
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:21,480
Speaker 4: harder drum programming, and you know, and I feel that

101
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,240
Speaker 4: that particular pocket is very influential.

102
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:25,360
Speaker 1: Duo occupied.

103
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:27,880
Speaker 4: Let me just get it, get him out of the

104
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,600
Speaker 4: way first, please, welcome to the cost Love Supreme Mike

105
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,239
Speaker 4: Murphy of the System, Thank you, sir, Thank.

106
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,800
Speaker 2: Your brother, thank you quest Love, thank you fam Wait.

107
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:42,080
Speaker 4: I wanted to know because you occupy there's there's a

108
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,000
Speaker 4: very specific period of New York City that I'm unaware of.

109
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 4: Like we've had many guests that can sort of put

110
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,479
Speaker 4: me down with what was happening in Los Angeles between

111
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,360
Speaker 4: like seventy seven to eighty five. But for the first time,

112
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,800
Speaker 4: I think we're really going to dive into what R

113
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,719
Speaker 4: and B and what dance culture and what black music

114
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,760
Speaker 4: in general was going through in between you know, nineteen

115
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,680
Speaker 4: eighty eighty one, eighty two, eighty three or forty five

116
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,719
Speaker 4: for those that weren't under the Purple Umbrella and for

117
00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,719
Speaker 4: those that weren't directly doing hip hop, like especially in

118
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 4: New York City.

119
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,880
Speaker 1: So you know, thank you for doing the show Man.

120
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:22,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.

121
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,119
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Brother.

122
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,200
Speaker 1: So you're you're speaking to us now from.

123
00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 2: Where East Harlem, New York City?

124
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,960
Speaker 1: And okay, so you're still a Harlem resident?

125
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,839
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I am. Okay, but well I grew up

126
00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,279
Speaker 2: in Jamaica, Queen, so this I'm a I'm a twenty

127
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,719
Speaker 2: year transplant of each Okay.

128
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,279
Speaker 4: Well, before we started taping, you were letting Fonte know

129
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 4: that you two are from the same hood.

130
00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 1: We're probably sorry.

131
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 2: I'm born and raised in Raleigh, North Carolina.

132
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,920
Speaker 3: Wow, yep, crazy Morgan'll the.

133
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 2: Cores, the Austin's, Yeah, we big, We rolled deep down there.

134
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,520
Speaker 5: That's so dope, some of them, I'm sure I do.

135
00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,960
Speaker 5: I went to Central, so I went to kind of Central,

136
00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,120
Speaker 5: so that was where I came from school. And then

137
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,480
Speaker 5: and uh, Raleigh. I mean I've moved to Riley in

138
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 5: like five but been there ever since. But yeah, man,

139
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,120
Speaker 5: it's you know, cool city. Real it's going up like

140
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 5: everywhere else, like the rent and all the property is

141
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:20,400
Speaker 5: going nuts.

142
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,720
Speaker 3: But but it's it's a beautiful city. Man, That's what's up.

143
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,520
Speaker 1: How long did you live there before you moved to

144
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:26,080
Speaker 1: New York?

145
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,040
Speaker 2: Oh? I was I moved up here when I was

146
00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 2: a baby. But every summer, you know, how mom, do

147
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,720
Speaker 2: you're gonna go down your uncle Jess. You're going to

148
00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:38,320
Speaker 2: your uncle Jesse's this summer. So I did that till

149
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,560
Speaker 2: I was like thirteen fourteen. Once you finally was like

150
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,320
Speaker 2: all right, okay, you know, because I started, you know,

151
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,280
Speaker 2: playing in bands and stuff, and we were gigging a

152
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:46,920
Speaker 2: bunch and she was like, all right, I'm gonna let you,

153
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 2: gonna let you get some okay.

154
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 4: Was it were those good memories of having to go

155
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,040
Speaker 4: down south or was it always like I mean, I

156
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 4: want to play with my friends in the summer up

157
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:56,520
Speaker 4: in New York.

158
00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,840
Speaker 2: Or No, my cousins were friends. Bernard Fowler is my

159
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 2: first cousin. Yeah, that's my first cousin.

160
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,960
Speaker 1: Of course. So is this the Queens as well?

161
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's from Queensbridge, and you know, as kids, we

162
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,840
Speaker 2: would we were best friends, running back and forth to

163
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,040
Speaker 2: each other's house. Is our mother his My father and

164
00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,840
Speaker 2: his mother are brother and sister, so so she was

165
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 2: like my she's my real auntie. And we spend weekends

166
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 2: together hanging out, playing and stuff. So we've tight. Wow.

167
00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,160
Speaker 1: So he's your actual first cousin.

168
00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:35,679
Speaker 2: He's my actual first cousin.

169
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 1: That's incredible, all right.

170
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,400
Speaker 4: So for our listeners out there, like Bernard is pretty

171
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 4: much you know, he's who's the who of background singing.

172
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,520
Speaker 4: You know, he's known for his work with the Little

173
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:48,719
Speaker 4: Rolling Stones.

174
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and lead singers and lead singers. She's he's definitely

175
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 2: one one of the absolute best.

176
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I gotta say the infamous House classic, well Peach

177
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 4: Boys don't make Me wait?

178
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,880
Speaker 2: Maybe it won't make me wait. Yeah, that's all Bernard.

179
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not to mention like the work that he's

180
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,120
Speaker 1: done with Bill as well and and Herbie.

181
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 4: Hancock and the recently departed HYBYI.

182
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:16,600
Speaker 2: Wow.

183
00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 1: Okay, absolutely.

184
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,960
Speaker 4: So the question I usually start with, can you tell

185
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:25,200
Speaker 4: me what your first musical your first musical memory was.

186
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,320
Speaker 2: You know, as a kid, my mother loved music, so

187
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,040
Speaker 2: we used to go to the Apollo all the time,

188
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,120
Speaker 2: and it was at a time when you could see

189
00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,520
Speaker 2: five shows in one day. You could just sit there,

190
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,480
Speaker 2: hang out and watch all the shows, and so I

191
00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 2: did that a lot. Those are my earliest, my earliest

192
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,280
Speaker 2: memories you know in music in the house of course,

193
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,200
Speaker 2: the Jackson Five, who I emulated in my first band,

194
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,160
Speaker 2: and kind of That's how I got my start.

195
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,160
Speaker 6: What did your mom do for work, man, My mother.

196
00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,439
Speaker 2: Was my mother. No, my mother was a a plan

197
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:06,679
Speaker 2: reader engineer for Ma Bell for Bell Telephone Company, and

198
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 2: she was a rebel, like she was the original liberated woman.

199
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:17,040
Speaker 2: She really was community leader and she used to give back.

200
00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,280
Speaker 2: In the day, there were a lot of social groups

201
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 2: that gave dances. So whenever they'd have a dance, of course,

202
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 2: my little band, the Soul Shakers, we'd be like the

203
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,880
Speaker 2: floor show. So they would have like a well known

204
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,480
Speaker 2: kind of orchestra. One was Ron Ron Williams and the

205
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,840
Speaker 2: Band of Renown, so they would be the big band playing,

206
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,360
Speaker 2: and then we would come on and do like a

207
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,040
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson James Brown floor show.

208
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,680
Speaker 4: It's interesting to hear normally a lot of our guests

209
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 4: on the show, if their formative years were in the

210
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,600
Speaker 4: sixties or seventies, nine times out of ten secular music

211
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:57,640
Speaker 4: is taboo.

212
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,720
Speaker 1: But it sounds like to hear like was was. Were

213
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,040
Speaker 1: your parents strict with music?

214
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,480
Speaker 4: You're not allowed to listen to any music but gospel

215
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,200
Speaker 4: or any of those things.

216
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,560
Speaker 2: No, I didn't have any of that pretty much. I

217
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 2: mean in my house it was like Brooke Benton was King.

218
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,800
Speaker 2: You know, it's like the Black King, Cole was King,

219
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,560
Speaker 2: the smooth, the smooth r and b love the Love

220
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,679
Speaker 2: of Boys singers. So I kind of grew up really

221
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,240
Speaker 2: actually loving Brooke Benton, those kind of classic songs with

222
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 2: the strings, with the deep, deep melodies and the deep lyrics,

223
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,240
Speaker 2: and that's kind of what I cut my teeth on.

224
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 2: And later it developed into more more of the funky stuff.

225
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,080
Speaker 4: Okay, how many siblings do you have? Where do you

226
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,640
Speaker 4: fall in your family line?

227
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:50,600
Speaker 2: I'm I'm firstborn, so the only of three.

228
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm the leaders passing it down to you.

229
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,360
Speaker 4: How do you because normally, if most I noticed that

230
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,320
Speaker 4: most of people in MU are usually the younger person.

231
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 4: You know, there's always an older sibling that's passing the

232
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 4: music down. Here, listen to this. This is James Brown.

233
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 2: This is kind of nobody. But my aunt Jennis. You know,

234
00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,320
Speaker 2: like I told you, my mother worked for mob Bell.

235
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,200
Speaker 2: My aunt Jennie, who moved up from North Carolina, would

236
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,560
Speaker 2: keep me during the day and she could sing like

237
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,120
Speaker 2: Aretha Franklin, real real talk, but she would only sing,

238
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,560
Speaker 2: and she would only sing in church. So during the

239
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,720
Speaker 2: day when my mother would be at work. She'd be like,

240
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,880
Speaker 2: Michah Micah Owen is what you call me, get up

241
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,320
Speaker 2: on the table and put on a show for me.

242
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 2: And she put me on the table and you know,

243
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,160
Speaker 2: have me sing different songs, the Jackson Five particularly, and uh,

244
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 2: you know that's kind of where my love for music

245
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,960
Speaker 2: and performing came from my aunt Jenny.

246
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,720
Speaker 4: So I assume that at one of these concerts you

247
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 4: saw the Jackson Five perform, Like, would you say that

248
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,640
Speaker 4: that was like one of the more memorable concerts that

249
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:56,560
Speaker 4: you've saw or.

250
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well the Fought. There were a lot of

251
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,200
Speaker 2: There were a lot of young groups. The Five Stare

252
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,120
Speaker 2: Steps may have been the first group that I saw

253
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,000
Speaker 2: at the Apollo of Young Guys, and Black Ivory actually

254
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:15,559
Speaker 2: performed at the r KO on Jamaica Avenue in Queens.

255
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,679
Speaker 2: When I saw them perform, I'm like, Wow, I can

256
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 2: do that. I can do that because I don't I

257
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 2: think they're just slightly older than me. And when I

258
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,200
Speaker 2: saw that they were able to perform and and actually

259
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,480
Speaker 2: make a living at it, I was like, wow, I

260
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:30,000
Speaker 2: can do this.

261
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,320
Speaker 4: Were the Stairsteps actual musicians in concert?

262
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: Because yeah, I know that it was studio musicians. But

263
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,320
Speaker 1: I know that Kenny.

264
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 2: Kenny, Kenny Burke played, Kenny Burke played on stage. My

265
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,680
Speaker 2: memory doesn't serve me how well he played at that time,

266
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,000
Speaker 2: but he was definitely he was definitely playing on stage

267
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:53,400
Speaker 2: back then at the Apollo.

268
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 4: Did when did you start your well you talked about

269
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,839
Speaker 4: as far as your musical development was concerned. Was that

270
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,679
Speaker 4: a school thing that school encouraged or did you get

271
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 4: her on your own?

272
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 2: No? I was. I was really I went to egghead schools.

273
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,559
Speaker 2: I was busted to schools, and you know, I was

274
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,640
Speaker 2: very much into magnet kid math and science. To be honest,

275
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,720
Speaker 2: I was really an egghead. But my best friend, this kid,

276
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 2: Robert Fontaine. He and my mother a Rain Fontaine and

277
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,560
Speaker 2: Shirley Austin. They could not be separated, and she was like,

278
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 2: they dressed the same, they hung the same. So rob

279
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 2: was her child. So we became close friends, even though

280
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 2: it was a couple of years older than me. He

281
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 2: had a band, and of course he didn't want to

282
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 2: let me in the band because I was too young.

283
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,280
Speaker 2: I was like a little perp. But eventually two of

284
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,400
Speaker 2: the band members, especially the singer, they started getting into

285
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,640
Speaker 2: drugs and everything, and my mother's like, you should hear

286
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,120
Speaker 2: Michael sing. I'm telling you you'd hear him sing. And

287
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,400
Speaker 2: so I started singing with that band and that's how,

288
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 2: you know, initially got my start singing and performing. And

289
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,040
Speaker 2: the band was the Soul Shakers. And I don't know

290
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,120
Speaker 2: if you know Ronnie Drayton.

291
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 1: You know that name, Yes, Ronnie, the late Ronnie Drayton.

292
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,880
Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, the late Ronnie. Yes. Indeed, he was the

293
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:15,920
Speaker 2: drummer in the band.

294
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 4: Wait, isn't Ronnie related to FLAVEO?

295
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,080
Speaker 3: Ah, yeah, we don't know if he.

296
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,520
Speaker 4: Okay, I might be mistaken because there was another Drayton

297
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,440
Speaker 4: that I met that used to work at Tower Records

298
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 4: that is related to Flave.

299
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,480
Speaker 1: I know that Flave came from a large family.

300
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 2: But no, Ronnie's not related to No no no. But

301
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,800
Speaker 2: we grew up two blocks from each other. He lived

302
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 2: around the corner for me, and also growing up, he

303
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 2: was kind of inspirational for us because he left the

304
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 2: band as a drummer and said, I'm going to be

305
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 2: a guitar player. I'm gonna start playing guitar. We're like,

306
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 2: I want to stick to drums because you're such a

307
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,400
Speaker 2: good drummer. But eventually he kept going at it. He

308
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 2: got a gig with the Chambers brothers and so they

309
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,680
Speaker 2: were going on the road and we were, you know,

310
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 2: we were kids in pro keads and we were go

311
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,000
Speaker 2: around the corner and watch him being picked up by

312
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 2: the band the station Wagon with his amps and everything,

313
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,120
Speaker 2: and we're like, wow, he's really he's really doing it.

314
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,440
Speaker 2: So he was an inspiration at all as well.

315
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,720
Speaker 1: It just hit me that Ron used to play with

316
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:17,280
Speaker 1: Noah Hendricks.

317
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,200
Speaker 2: That's right, he was really her band leader Edvin Bird's

318
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 2: song Noah Hendricks.

319
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeaeah.

320
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 4: He's a legend, you know, very very sad to see

321
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 4: see him past.

322
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 2: He was at our age, he was like the most

323
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,200
Speaker 2: serious musician. I mean, I grew up around a lot

324
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 2: of really talented funk bands, like in my neighborhood and

325
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,240
Speaker 2: Jamaica Queens. Literally every other block there was a there

326
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,800
Speaker 2: was a band. There was a funk band, Mother Night,

327
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 2: you know Eddie Eddie Martinez.

328
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 1: Of course, the legendary Eddie Martinez.

329
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:50,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mother.

330
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, rock Box yeah yeah yeah yeah.

331
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,640
Speaker 2: They were one of our local bands. And we had

332
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,680
Speaker 2: some hell of funky bands back then.

333
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, where would these shows happen at high schools or

334
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,439
Speaker 4: like how like give me a typical rundown of Okay,

335
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 4: if you have a neighborhood band, one, where do you rehearse?

336
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:16,240
Speaker 4: Because I know that, at least for the Midwest, families

337
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,120
Speaker 4: with garages, you know, hence the term garage band, like

338
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,119
Speaker 4: that's where bands are formed. But if you're in New

339
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 4: York City and you form a band, first of all,

340
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:26,680
Speaker 4: where do you rehearse at.

341
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,680
Speaker 2: We're in Jamaica, Queens everybody had a garage and a basement,

342
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,160
Speaker 2: so you're the You're you're either rehearsed in the basement

343
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,520
Speaker 2: or the garage. My next door neighbor was Eddie Hazel's father,

344
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,399
Speaker 2: Eddie Hazel. He lived next door to me, so the

345
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 2: parliament back in the day would come and and pull

346
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 2: around on the back of you know, basically give parties.

347
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 2: But his father, he did all the processes in the neighborhood.

348
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,639
Speaker 2: All hair processes.

349
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:07,360
Speaker 1: Could also do hair. I forgot about that.

350
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 6: I'm saving a hair chapter until get the.

351
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,959
Speaker 1: Wow, oh that's crazy.

352
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 4: Who who else were your were your contemporaries growing up

353
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 4: as far as like who you went to school with

354
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 4: or other people?

355
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, when I was in public school, it was

356
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,120
Speaker 2: really you asked about how where we would gig. There

357
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,920
Speaker 2: were five or six local clubs. There was the Club Ruby,

358
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,119
Speaker 2: the Linden Manor, there was after Rochfield Village was built,

359
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,719
Speaker 2: there was a big concert venue there. Everybody would play it.

360
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 2: There were a lot of clubs. There were a lot

361
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 2: of bars, local bars, and they all had bands. I

362
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 2: mean we're talking before DJ before they realized, oh we

363
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,200
Speaker 2: can just get a DJ to come in. You know,

364
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,480
Speaker 2: we give it every everybody would gig. There were bands

365
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 2: like the Firebolts, who were really kind of the leaders

366
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 2: for us local bands because they had it organized so

367
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,719
Speaker 2: they played. They gigged every weekend like they always had

368
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,399
Speaker 2: shows for different cotillions. And there were a lot of

369
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 2: gigs back then and when we were like the band

370
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 2: under them, so we would sometimes be the opening act

371
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 2: basically the floor show.

372
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 4: Is this a thing where you can if you're that

373
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 4: top band, can you make a nice living?

374
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, how old are you doing this period?

375
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 2: I'm like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen when.

376
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,400
Speaker 4: You can go into a nightclub and do a show

377
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 4: and it's not because a culture wasn't a thing yet.

378
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 2: Or my mother was a mamager and she was a beauty,

379
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 2: so nobody said no to Shirly, so she would kind

380
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 2: of she was kind of book us on gigs. And then,

381
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 2: like I said, during that era, everybody was a member

382
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 2: of a social club. So they would be uh shinnecock

383
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,719
Speaker 2: Rod and Gun club and they would give an annual event.

384
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 2: There might be the motorcycle. The Fat Back Band was

385
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 2: the official band for like the Linden Boulevard Biker Biker Club.

386
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,400
Speaker 2: Really they would all have event yeah, yeah, yeah they would.

387
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,199
Speaker 2: They rehearsed from Linden Boulevard. How far from where I

388
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 2: grew up.

389
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 1: I didn't know that Fat Back was from there.

390
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Fatbacks from Linden Boulevard.

391
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, wacky for like thirty minutes. Yep, I've heard about

392
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: their series.

393
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 2: So all these social clubs, they would have a contillion

394
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 2: where they'd bring out the young ladies. There would be

395
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,159
Speaker 2: a lot of events you could play. You could really

396
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 2: make a living. I mean I was a kid and

397
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 2: I was I'm making like one hundred dollars a weekend

398
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 2: all the time. And you know, back in.

399
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 6: That a teenager period.

400
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,159
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, back then, what.

401
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 4: At what point for you at least are you even

402
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 4: considering making this a profession.

403
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 1: And I gotta know. I know that the group clear

404
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:07,199
Speaker 1: played a.

405
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I'm not there yet

406
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 2: because I'm really, like I said, I'm an egghead. I'm

407
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 2: going to Brooklyn Tech. I'm gonna be I'm gonna work

408
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: for NASA. That's my that was my head. That was

409
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 2: my DUTs in my head. That's that's what it was.

410
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to NASA. But I was in the band

411
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: the Soul Shakers, and at some point we were like,

412
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 2: let's try and see if we can get better. And

413
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 2: a young lady named Laala the Forest Cope you give

414
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 2: good love, Yeah, La La joined the band. So La

415
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: La changed a lot from me because she was she

416
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 2: was like the first female rebel who always said, well

417
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 2: why not, why can't we get this? Why can't we

418
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 2: do that? Why can't I was more like in pocket,

419
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 2: like come on, let's see, we'll get it so down,

420
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: so down. So once her energy came into the band,

421
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 2: we were forever seeking the better drummer, the better bass player,

422
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 2: the better guitar player, the better sounds is the better gig.

423
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 2: So she changed a lot for me, you know, and.

424
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: Just so we can make it clear.

425
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 4: I don't you mentioned it earlier, but I wanted to

426
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 4: make it clear for our listeners that don't know. La

427
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 4: Laud wrote Whitney Houston's very first single, you Get You

428
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 4: Give Good Love Love You've Give.

429
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, we didn't want to admit we didn't know who

430
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 6: Lai was, but we didn't thank you.

431
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 4: No, no, lad You know, she made noise and she

432
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 4: did some stuff with like full force and as a

433
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 4: solo artist around like eighty six.

434
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 2: Anyways, sorry, yep, yep, but but part of her thing

435
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 2: was she would write songs way back then and I

436
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: would kind of fool around with ideas imitating other people's songs.

437
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 2: But she was the first person I was around who

438
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: would just sit at the piano, make up a song

439
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: and break your heart. And she was in the band

440
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 2: and we would do gigs and she would sing like

441
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 2: songs like Gladys Knight in the Gladdys Knight song last

442
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 2: what is it? Last time I'm leaving Midnight, and she

443
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 2: would she would tear the house down. She would do

444
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 2: things like Billy Holliday. She just had that soul and

445
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: that spirit that she would tear the house down with

446
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: these songs and songs like you give good love. She

447
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 2: was writing no songs when she was sixteen. She was

448
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: already right, she had written that she had written ten

449
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: of those by the time she was sixteen. So that

450
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 2: kind of made me start noticing, you know that, oh,

451
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: this songwriting is a thing. Songwriting is really a thing

452
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 2: that you should be focusing on, particularly, you know, in

453
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: the band thing. So moving on, we got into this

454
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 2: band called Jack SaaS, The Jack SaaS Band. Former members

455
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 2: included like a lot of local talent in Jamaica, queens

456
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: and really good musicians, so we really had to step

457
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 2: up the bar a little bit. But our band, we

458
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 2: were playing all over the East coast, would play the

459
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 2: Jersey Shore, we would play Miami, we would play Virginia,

460
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: but we couldn't get a record deal. So along this time,

461
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 2: this guy comes to town. We used to play this

462
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: club uptown called the Seller with band this ban Kinky Fox.

463
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know Timmy Allen. They were

464
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 2: like they would play one weekend, we would play another weekend.

465
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: So this guy Fred Petris, little Macho Music, who produced

466
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: Change and BB Change. Yeah, yeah, so he comes to town.

467
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: I'm still deciding if I'm really gonna do music. So

468
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: he comes to down and he says, hey, I really

469
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 2: like you guys. I want you to be I had

470
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: this record out called Peter Jacques Band, which was a

471
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 2: huge hit in Europe. He's like, I want you to

472
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: guys to tour and pretend you're Peter Jack's band. So

473
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: we're like, okay, because you know he's gonna pay us,

474
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,719
Speaker 2: we're going to put well, basically we didn't record anything

475
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: on the album, but we were going to perform the

476
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 2: touring act of Peter Jacks Band and we would be

477
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: the artist. So that kind of fell apart. But then

478
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 2: he called me one day and he said, hey, Murphy,

479
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: I want you to introduce me to bands in the city,

480
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 2: all the best musicians, and I want you to work

481
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: for me. I want you to work in my office.

482
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: I want I'll teach you publishing, I'll teach you recording,

483
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 2: I'll teach you everything. But just connect me with all

484
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: the bands. And so I did, because I knew I

485
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: knew all of the musicians. Not I didn't know all

486
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: of the studio recording musicians because in New York at

487
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: the time, they were really they kept it real tight.

488
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 2: You couldn't even get you couldn't get a session, you

489
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 2: couldn't get to record anywhere. They had it on lock,

490
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: Fid Thornton, Color, They just they had sessions, Yogi Horton,

491
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 2: you know that whole crew. They had the session world

492
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 2: on lock. So a band like ours didn't stand a chance.

493
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: But through through my relationship with him, he actually did

494
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 2: bring me in to run his office and I would

495
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: hook him up with the musicians and do demos, and

496
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 2: I would go to the sessions when he was out

497
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 2: of town make sure everybody was recording, booked the sessions,

498
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: learned about publishing, and at that time it became real

499
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: for me because I could connect my brain with the

500
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 2: creative part on how this can how this is a

501
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: real business, and how you can really you know, how

502
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: you can make things happen. So that's when when I started, Yeah,

503
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: that's when I started to think about music as a

504
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 2: real profession for me.

505
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 4: There's one thing I wanted to ask about your tenure

506
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 4: and your band, and you were doing these club gigs

507
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 4: on an average one, how long were you expected to

508
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 4: perform at.

509
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: These these shows?

510
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 4: And how big is the repertoire, like just in terms

511
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 4: of I understand like every band had to know the

512
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 4: top forty so you had to have of course, So

513
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 4: how how does that work? Is it like every Friday

514
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 4: you go to the local record store, you get all

515
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 4: the forty five's and you're like, okay, damn, we got

516
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,719
Speaker 4: to learn to how to trap by the commodorees or like,

517
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 4: what's that process?

518
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: Walking through that process.

519
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 2: As the point where we got serious. We were rehearsing

520
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: four days a week and we were were the shows.

521
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: When look, we went from being like a floor show

522
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: band actually having to hold on a club and generally

523
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: you'd be booked Friday, Saturday, Sunday, so that's five sets,

524
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: three nights in a row, so you had to have

525
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 2: And also we were doing originals cut because at that

526
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 2: point were we started figuring out how to manipulate our

527
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: sound and create a sound of our own and Jack sass.

528
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: Actually it was a really killing band. I don't know

529
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: if you know. Liz Chisholm was the bass player. She's

530
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 2: one of the original female bass players in New York.

531
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 2: Liz Chisholm Omar Jakeim was an early drummer in the band.

532
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: Legend.

533
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 2: I mean, we were, we were, we were, we were

534
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: pretty serious, like we were coming up on a funky

535
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 2: rock thing. We were doing things like we were doing

536
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 2: rare earth songs. We were doing uh, we were just

537
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: doing our own brand. We would we would hit them

538
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: with with the top forty hit, but we'd also hit

539
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: them with something that's in the vein, like a song

540
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: by war or you know. We were coming off a

541
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: little bit left of center, but it was really working.

542
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: It was working.

543
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 4: You mentioned queens, and also I wanted to know whether

544
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 4: or not at the time was anyone like from the

545
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 4: Jamaica Boys like in also in the sphere I'm talking

546
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 4: about like Bernard right, you know, Marcus Miller, all those.

547
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: So all those cats are in the mix. Bernard Wright

548
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: was in the Junior Firebolts. So the Fireballs I mentioned earlier,

549
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: who had really gotten it down to a science where

550
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: they were gigging all the time for weddings. So they

551
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: created a spinoff called the Junior Firebolts, and Bernard was

552
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: in the Junior Fireballs.

553
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: You're so popular, you have your own sequel.

554
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, all these bands were in the mix, and all

555
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: these bands were killing.

556
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 4: Okay, so you right now you led us to the

557
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 4: point where you're learning the business. How are you getting

558
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 4: talked into being a tour manager. And at what point

559
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 4: are you entering Clear's life like, because I remember, like

560
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 4: it's weird that I know, like intimate connections is a staple.

561
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 4: But I'll admit that only after hip hop that I

562
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 4: learned intimate connections because I always knew Clear because of

563
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 4: like their early part in nineteen eighty where they had

564
00:29:59,240 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 4: the song called win.

565
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm around them this whole time. So I'm in

566
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: Brooklyn Tech High School and Dennis King is the chief

567
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: mastering engineer at Atlantic Studios right on fifty ninth Street.

568
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: So he was someone who took interest in my early band,

569
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: Jack says, and actually was the first person to ever

570
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: take us into the recording studio. So he worked at Atlantic,

571
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: and I would come home and I would stop at

572
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: Atlantic Studios, and he lived near me in Queens and

573
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: I would ride home with him. But that stopped entailed

574
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 2: waiting around in Atlantic Studios Columbus Circle. I'm telling you,

575
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: I saw everybody record Aretha. I saw the Stones come

576
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: through there, Ricky Lee Jones, I mean like everybody who

577
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: was anybody. I'm talking the days when you know all

578
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: the actually the Cats, A lot of the Cats from Philly,

579
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: the guitar player, and the bass player, Bookatie Owms, what's

580
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: his name the keyboard player. They would all be around there,

581
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: Jeve yep. So I got to kind of blend in

582
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: through that and also view recording sessions and learn sessions.

583
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: So Dennis at the time was working with the band Clear,

584
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: who was from Baltimore, and they had one small record

585
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: that didn't do a lot, but by the time the

586
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: second record came, they were in demand to tour. So

587
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 2: he obviously couldn't go on the road because he was

588
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: a mastering engineer at Atlantic, and he knew I knew

589
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: the road because I had taken my band everywhere and

590
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: I knew all the details, booking hotels, all of that.

591
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: So he asked me to be their road manager. So

592
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: the first tour, well, the first big tour I get

593
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 2: to go on is Prince Rick James and Clear. I

594
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: felt I done it. Clear was the opening act. I

595
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: thought I died and way to Heaven. I thought I

596
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: died and went to heaven. Brother, So oh, it's crazy.

597
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: I mean I have actually pictures from the tour of

598
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: Prince when he was doing the jockstrap and the reset

599
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: ladder thing. I have pictures back there, Rick Jane All,

600
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: I have pictures of all the madness. And he Rick

601
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: had had kind of a crush on the clear girl,

602
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: so you know, he liked him as the opening act.

603
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: And we did. We must have done like fifteen dates.

604
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, Prince killed Rick. Prince killed It

605
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: was so funny because killed Rick. He killed Rick every

606
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: single city. He killed him. First they started out. You know,

607
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: it's the opening act. You might have six feet of

608
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: depth and they peel you off. And the next act,

609
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: you know, have twelve feet of depth. They peel him off,

610
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: and then Rick has his whole big show, right. But

611
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 2: Prince Prince had those stairs and he had like a

612
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: little light rig that said Prince. And I'm telling you

613
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: they were kicking ass and taking names every single gig.

614
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: It was crazy, it was. And I'm standing there with

615
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: my mouth of him because in a way, my band

616
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: Jack sass. We had this guitar player, Vick Vaughan. I

617
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 2: hope he hears this. Vic Vaughn was as good as Prince.

618
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 2: He was good a guitar player and as good as singer,

619
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: but he didn't have that you know, that extra thing

620
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: that makes you want to stick to the business. He

621
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: ended up he ended up moving to the midwest, South

622
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 2: Dakota somewhere, but he was kind of the New York

623
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: City embodiment of Prince. So when I saw Prince, I

624
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: was like wow, And it also made me kind of decide,

625
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: you know what, I can do my own I can

626
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: come up with my own thing that's different than all

627
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: of this, but I could do my own thing. So

628
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: that's when kind of my road management dream turned into

629
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: you know, I want to create some thing.

630
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 4: What were touring conditions? Like whoa, I'm so glad you're

631
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 4: tour manager because it's like.

632
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 5: Weird y'all know y'all know everything? Yeah, exactly because musicians

633
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 5: you'll put the fires out sort of, you know, have

634
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 5: very selective memory. But if you're touring in nineteen eighty,

635
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 5: you know a bandlike Clear, Are you guys in a

636
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 5: fifteen passenger van?

637
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: Are you tour bus status yet? What kind of hotels

638
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: are you in? Like I want to know, like the

639
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: boring stuff, like what what is that like?

640
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty it was it was right, it was correct.

641
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: Al Hayman was the tour promoter, so everything they don't

642
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 2: have to war you don't have to worry about the money.

643
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: You just had to be there on time. I always

644
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: book connections. I don't even know if they're still in

645
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: business connections, bus service. You know. We had a budget

646
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: for hotel room. Hotels were cheap back then. You could

647
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: get you could get decent hotels for one hundred dollars.

648
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: It was. It was smooth and correct. It was smooth.

649
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: Every per diem was solid. I was handling the money.

650
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: Everything was smooth. I had three bands on tour together.

651
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 2: I had Clear, Change and BBQ all on the road

652
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: at the same time. I was a little twork. I

653
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: was a little twork, but I knew I knew how

654
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 2: the right job.

655
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: Because I wanted to know about those groups.

656
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 4: And in the case in the case of Change, of

657
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 4: which I believe it was Jimmy jam that revealed to

658
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 4: me that Change was really well in name the two

659
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 4: Italian guys.

660
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, Malavas.

661
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: Were they in concert? How did that work?

662
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 2: No? They never showed up to concert. They were studio

663
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: musicians and brilliant ones. They had an amazing sound and

664
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: Michael Brower would engineer most of the projects. It was

665
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 2: all the best suit. Lutha Vanress, who I also worked

666
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: for on the road after I think it was like, yeah,

667
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: I think early shows. Yeah, I was. I was a

668
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: guy with the fog machine and I was the guy

669
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 2: with the spotlight, and I was paid Lutha. Lutha paid

670
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: his guys. It was crazy. I had to listen. I

671
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 2: love working for Luther so much. And that was another

672
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: point where I was like, Wow, I love I could

673
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 2: I want to I want to entertain again. But I

674
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 2: did one tour where I drove from New York City

675
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: to Los Angeles for his on his first tour, all

676
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 2: down through Texas, myself and one other road guys. So

677
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 2: I've I've done. I've worn all the hats I've worn,

678
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 2: like the road he hat, I've won the drive and

679
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: truck hat, hold the spotlight, I won.

680
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 6: Any of them know about your talent? Did anybody know that?

681
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: No? No they didn't, They didn't know. Let me tell

682
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 2: you a great story. We're on the road in South

683
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 2: Carolina somewhere and Clear, which were on with Clear and

684
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: David and I had made the record in Times of Passion.

685
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 2: We made it like one weekend, actually like in one day,

686
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: twenty four hours. We made the record, went to the

687
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: studio got it out. I knew a couple of people

688
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: Atlantic because I had worked with with Dennis and I

689
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: had worked with Clear, and they always said to me,

690
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: you know, because I was a good looking young fella. Yeah,

691
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 2: They're like, hey, if you ever, if you ever make

692
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: a record, so why don't you bring it, Why don't

693
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 2: you bring it to me? Let me hear it. So

694
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: we made in Times of Passion and one day I

695
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,479
Speaker 2: took it to Atlantic. They signed it the same day,

696
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: but I didn't I didn't make any noise because Clear,

697
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: I was working for Clear, and I don't know, if

698
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: you know Woody. Woody was a little bit of a

699
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: kind of jealous guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. So

700
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: we're on the road in South Carolina doing an outdoor

701
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 2: date and I'm carrying you know SVT bass amps, I

702
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 2: know those spg ampeg I'm carrying an SVT bass cabinet

703
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: to put below the bus, and David's on the tour

704
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: bus and he's yelling, make our songs on the red

705
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 2: our songs on the radio. In time the Passion was

706
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: playing on the radio.

707
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 4: That's how everyone found out that you were yes singer.

708
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 4: So can you well, since you already you brought the

709
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 4: great David Frank into the picture.

710
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: Can you explain the story? What am I to believe?

711
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 4: And he told me this once was was Madonna originally

712
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 4: supposed to be in the system and you replaced her.

713
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what happened was we were all we all

714
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 2: were growing. We all kind of circulated around the music

715
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: building on eighth Avenue and thirty sixty whatever. Okay, you know,

716
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 2: all the bands rehearsed there. People would kind of share

717
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 2: recording spaces, like you'd have a space and you'd have

718
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 2: it from two to five and someone else would have

719
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: it from five to nine. So I got I got

720
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,959
Speaker 2: a back up because I got David. I got Dave

721
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: in Clear. I got on to be the keyboard player

722
00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 2: and Clear. So what happened was Dennis King was prettying

723
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: together the tour for Clear, and they didn't have a

724
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 2: keyboard player. So one night he took me to this

725
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 2: club uptown and he said, yeah, come with me. I

726
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 2: want to see this singer. You know, I want to

727
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: see the singer and then tell me what you think.

728
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 2: So we go to this club. I didn't think much

729
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 2: of the singer, and I said to him, Hey, that

730
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 2: keyboard player is really good. I mean you should maybe

731
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: you just consider him from clear. But they were playing

732
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 2: kind of like steely Dan's style, you know, it wasn't

733
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: it was nothing like the electro that you come to

734
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 2: know David as at the end of the player you

735
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: come to So he did that for he did that tour.

736
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 2: This was not the rig James tour. It was the

737
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: next tour. He did that tour. And when I when

738
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: I would work, I guess I would sing sometimes or

739
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: I would sing along the songs, not making anything of

740
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: it or paying attention. But one day he had cut

741
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 2: this track that he'd been working on because he got

742
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 2: a DSX, a DMX and he got an Overheim, which

743
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 2: he actually kind of bought it with another one of

744
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: the musicians in the music building. So out of the

745
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: blue he calls me and he says, hey, I wrote

746
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 2: this song, and you know Madonna was supposed to sing it,

747
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: but you know, Steve Bray wants to put guitar and

748
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 2: they want to put this on it and that, and

749
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't want to do that. I don't

750
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: want to do that. So he was like, why don't

751
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: you come to the loft and listen to it? So

752
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 2: I go to his shared loft in the music building.

753
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm expecting because I've only heard

754
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: him play in the clear mode, which is kind of

755
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: jazzy soul with some pune basically, and that's not what

756
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 2: I wanted to do either. I wanted to do something

757
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 2: completely different musically than that. So I get there and

758
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: he said, well, you know, listen, geor it tell me

759
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 2: what you think. He hits the button and it's the

760
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: track of in Times of Passion. But I died and

761
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: went to heaven because it was exactly what I what

762
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 2: I had been thinking of, because I was thinking, if

763
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: what if you put Rick James and craft work together,

764
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 2: what would that sound? And when he hit when he

765
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 2: hit that button, I was like, this is this is it?

766
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 2: You know, this is I've been looking for. I hadn't yep.

767
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: She said, well, yeah, Madonna was gonna and I knew

768
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: Madonna too. There's a story there too, she said, yeah,

769
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 2: Madonna'll think. Okay, Well, when when I when I was

770
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: in the band, when I was in Jack Sass, we

771
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: used to play at the Queen's College, rath Scaler. She

772
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: would play on Wednesdays and my band would play on Thursdays,

773
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: so I knew her from that, so, you know, you

774
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: know how you go and check the competition out. I'd

775
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: gone to check her out then, and and you know,

776
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: and we also knew each other around the music. Mcmathe,

777
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 2: Are you want to do it? Mcmathein that time? You want?

778
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 2: That's time? She was like that. She was like, she

779
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: was like, you know, I knew she had the attitude,

780
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: but I didn't you know, I didn't know what how

781
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: far she was going to take it. So anyway, David said, yeah,

782
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 2: Madonna was going to record it, but she backed out

783
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: at the last minute. Can you can you record it?

784
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: And I said, well, what was the title she had?

785
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 2: She said, Crimes of Passion. Said okay, let me see

786
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: what I can come up with. And I was just

787
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: singing along with the track, humming and kind of crimes

788
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: a Passion, kind of falling with it. He was like,

789
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: that's great, that's great. Now go home and write the song.

790
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: I'll pick you up in the morning, we'll go to

791
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 2: the studio and record it. I'm like, write the song

792
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: right tonight and we're gonna record it tomorrow. So, you know,

793
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 2: I had had the dream of what I wanted to

794
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: sound like, but I had no idea what I wanted

795
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: to say, So somehow I stayed up all night. David

796
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: came to pick me up my mother's house in Queens

797
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: at like seven o'clock in the morning. We go to

798
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 2: the studio in Long Island. We recorded all day. We

799
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: laid it on the parts, I sing all the leads,

800
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: all the backgrounds. We mix it, and the next morning,

801
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 2: when he dropped me off at my mother's house, I

802
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: had a big sound system innovation because I always owned

803
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: the band's pa. So I put the cassette tape in

804
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: and I played it, and I was like, this is

805
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: this is the one. If you don't do something with this,

806
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 2: you're never gonna do anything. So I immediately, like at

807
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 2: nine o'clock, called Dennis King, Hey, Dennis, can you can

808
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 2: you cut a couple of acetates of this thing I

809
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: cut yesterday? So he said sure, So I went to

810
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: the studio Atlantic. He cut three assetates, of which I

811
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 2: have I have two of them now, And I went

812
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: and I went to the two people who I knew

813
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: in the record business who had said to me, if

814
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 2: you ever, if you ever come up with anything, let

815
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 2: me know. One was Jim Delahant who worked for Atlantic

816
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 2: Records with Jerry Greenberg. Okay, and the other one was

817
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 2: was r f C Records, and they, you know, they

818
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 2: were big because they had you know, Socio and they

819
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: had they had a lot of really popping electoral soul.

820
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: Right, So I went to yeah, okay, ye, yep, he's

821
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: the president of mag is he not?

822
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a president, but at the time he

823
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: was president of Atlantic. He had just come stepped down

824
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: from being the president of Atlantic.

825
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: So he was the president of Atlantic.

826
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: He was the president of Atlantic, Yes, but when but

827
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: he was forming his own label, and I think he

828
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: had only he had signed he had only signed one

829
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: act so far. So I take the record to Jim

830
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: Dellahan and I said, Jim just cuts this. He plays

831
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: like thirty seconds of it, and he says, hold on a second,

832
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: and he disappears through a door and out comes Jerry Greenberk.

833
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: My jaw is on the ground because Jerry is the cheese.

834
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: I mean, he's he's the man. He comes out, he

835
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 2: kind of looks at me, sits in his chair, turns

836
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 2: around to face the speakers. I'm looking at the back

837
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: of his head. He listens to like thirty seconds of

838
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: it and he turns around and says, get yourself a

839
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 2: record deal, just like that, one day, one day, it

840
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 2: was that easy. Well yeah, at that moment, at that moment,

841
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: and the record came out and it it caught a fire,

842
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: It really did. It caught a fire.

843
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 4: So this wasn't a case where you had to like

844
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 4: a relationship with Larry Love or someone to like, you'll

845
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 4: play my thing, test it out on the crowd and

846
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 4: see how it works. So you just instantly had an

847
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 4: end with the Brass Atlantic.

848
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and thank god, Frankie Crocker love the record. Okay,

849
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: Frankie Crocker loved the record. He ran it into the ground.

850
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 2: And he you know, Frankie was a DJ at the time.

851
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: If you like something, he's playing it. He doesn't care

852
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 2: what the trend is, he doesn't care what anybody says. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

853
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: So he played that record to death. And then you know,

854
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 2: as far as the system, the rest is history.

855
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 4: You said something really interesting about your interaction with David

856
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 4: frank and what you said was he pressed a button.

857
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 4: So can you explain to me at the time your

858
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 4: willingness to embrace kind of a new culture, which is programmed,

859
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 4: you know, at the age of you know, sort of

860
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 4: seventy nine eighty. New drum machines are being invented, New

861
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 4: synthesizers are being which I could imagine could be intimidating,

862
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 4: because the thing is is that there's a watershed moment

863
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 4: for black music after the sort of post disco fallout

864
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 4: where a lot of these bands that were foundational, name

865
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 4: them like Brass Construction, mass Production.

866
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 5: Mask, any band with like eight niggas on the cover,

867
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 5: you just know what it is.

868
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 1: No cameo, same thing.

869
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 2: No real talk. I was already there because I was already.

870
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 2: I was already listening to craft Work, I was listening

871
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 2: to Yazoo, the Arrhythmics, I was eating I was eating.

872
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: Up every record until UK and of course early Garan.

873
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 2: Of course the Thompson I was. I was there already,

874
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 2: I mean I was, I was. I was eating off

875
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: of soul and funk. But I was already there because

876
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: of what you're saying. I had been on the road

877
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,919
Speaker 2: with brask and fifteen Pieces, and I'm like, how these

878
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 2: guys making money? How you know, it's like this is

879
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 2: this something makes this makes no sense to me. I

880
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: don't get the math here, and you know, there were

881
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 2: a lot of there were a lot of brass construction

882
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 2: like bands, phrasey, all these bands from from the Midwest.

883
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: I was like, how everybody, so I was, I was,

884
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: We've interviewed all those bands.

885
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 1: I was just laughing, Yeah, we've been interviewed.

886
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 4: And is the thing is though, is because you know,

887
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 4: even though I was like nine in the eighty like

888
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 4: when like terms like new wave were being invented in

889
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 4: all those things, I'd never truly understood or got a

890
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 4: chance to ask a guest on the show, like is

891
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 4: this a Titanic synchrosus.

892
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: Whim moment for you?

893
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 4: Like do you learn new technology or do you just,

894
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 4: you know, defiantly say no, I'm gonna keep my horn

895
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 4: section and these Fender roads and this clabinet.

896
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: Let me tell you one of the reasons why I

897
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 2: loved jac sass. So we had we always had great drummers,

898
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 2: but a lot of times they were nowhere to be

899
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: found when it was time to do. We had this

900
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: cat Lino Reyes. I don't know if you know who

901
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 2: he is, Leno. He ended up playing with rig Games,

902
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 2: but we had a couple gigs lined up and he

903
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: just didn't show up, and I had bought a rolling

904
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: drum machine, like a little Mini eight o eight. I

905
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: was like, come on, guys, we can use this for

906
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 2: the gig. Let's just do the gig. And they laughed

907
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 2: me out of rehearsal. They laughed me out of rehearsal.

908
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 2: But I was like, all right, you know, somebody's somebody's

909
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 2: working on this. And I'd already been geared up, you know,

910
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 2: reading Nmy Out of the UK and like you said,

911
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: Gary Numan, all these bands in my image. I was

912
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 2: already dressing new ways and I was always thinking new wave,

913
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 2: but I didn't know how to create it on my

914
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: own with the with the musicians that I had around me.

915
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: So I was already playing with technology and drum machines

916
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. When I met Dave Can,

917
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: I just ask.

918
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 9: A question about radio, because you mentioned that, like Frankie

919
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 9: Crocker popped off your popped you off on radio, and

920
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 9: I'm curious that you mentioned a new wave, like, so

921
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 9: what happens after that? How do they decide, Okay, we're

922
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 9: going to continue to service these black radio stations, We're

923
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 9: going to service the pop radio stations.

924
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 6: Like how does that happen? What happens after.

925
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 2: Frankie response, the response to the people calling in what

926
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: is that? Actually when that record first played, you know

927
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 2: who tu May is, right, yes, oh yes, yeah, so

928
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: in to May like two days later and and Tue

929
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 2: May called and said, man, I heard your record and

930
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 2: I had to pull onto the side of the road

931
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: outside out of the Midtown Tunnel. What are you doing?

932
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 2: I'm doing a session now. He was doing Juicy Fruit.

933
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: He was recording that at the time, and he invited

934
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 2: David and I to play on that session because he

935
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 2: wanted that. He yeah, we're We're told that session.

936
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: I forgot, yeah, he.

937
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 3: Told So we went.

938
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, we went and played on that session, and we

939
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: started getting We started getting a lot more calls like

940
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 2: from the UK, come to the UK produced this artist

941
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 2: and groups and and you know in America also, hey

942
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: produce us, can you give us give us some of

943
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: that that system funk. So we started doing pretty much

944
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 2: right out of the box.

945
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 9: So they never put you in a radio box, so

946
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,720
Speaker 9: you were never just in the Frankie Cracker in urban box.

947
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: Well we you know, everybody starts in an urban box.

948
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: But once you start breaking out, don't forget we had.

949
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: You know, after after the results of that record starting

950
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: to take off like that, I had another meeting with

951
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: Jerry and he was like, you guys want to do

952
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: a twelve inch And because of what I had learned

953
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 2: with Petras, I was like, now we want to do

954
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: an album. Well, what would you what would you give

955
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 2: us to do a twelve inch? And he gave us

956
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: a number and I was like, give us double that.

957
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: We'll do an album. Now we had already been we

958
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: had already been writing songs like, we had already been

959
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: working on songs. So basically our process in recording was

960
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 2: we would get together and maybe spend a couple hours.

961
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 2: David might have some ideas he's working on, We're do

962
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 2: an arrangement, I'd work on a vocal, I'd sing a melody,

963
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: and you know, we basically had seven songs for the

964
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: album already, so it was basically we go into the

965
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: studio record all the parts he had pre recorded. Now,

966
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 2: I don't want people to think that pressing a button

967
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: means you're just pressing a button and something's coming out

968
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 2: that's been pre recorded. There's a lot that song in

969
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 2: Times of Passion. If you ever listen to it. He's

970
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 2: using an OB eight. He made four different keyboard sections

971
00:51:58,640 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 2: on the instrument.

972
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, was MIDI a thing? Backman?

973
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 2: Yes, MIDI was a thing. Midy was just becoming the thing.

974
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 4: Because I always wanted to know, like, yeah, you guys

975
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 4: had intricate arrangements, especially on that first record, and I

976
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 4: was trying to figure out, like, are you programming in

977
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 4: this in real time? Or is this MIDI? Like is

978
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 4: MIDI culture in eighty three? I never knew when Mitty came.

979
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 2: So no, he's playing. He's playing in real time. But

980
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 2: as you know, you can either sequence it or you

981
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: can let it play in real time, so he's recording it.

982
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 2: He's really Actually David is a is a great physical player,

983
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 2: like great, so he was. He divided the keyboards into

984
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 2: different sections. So there might be one section of course

985
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 2: in the lower and that's the base, and another section

986
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 2: might be a pad. Another section might be a little

987
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: squeaky thing, which you could you could you could change

988
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,760
Speaker 2: programs while you're recording and it would record the program changes.

989
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 2: So those sounds like Bud is him basically pressing different

990
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 2: program buttons, and then you had to drum machine so

991
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 2: you have you know, you could have six, seven, eight

992
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 2: parts would play back automatically.

993
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: You know, And none of this was a tea at all.

994
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: No, because after we we did in Times of Passion,

995
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 2: I kind of knew how the system could work and

996
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 2: how we could take it to another level with the

997
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: instrument because basically you had you were basically it was

998
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: a digital recording, you know, without tape. You could record

999
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: all the songs except for the vocals, because they had

1000
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: nothing at that time where you could actually record the

1001
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 2: vocals and still be in sync with everything. So being

1002
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 2: someone who had played in bands five shows a night,

1003
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 2: I could I could hit it on a dime, like

1004
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 2: every gig, the harmonies all.

1005
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 4: Lot before I get into sweat and you're in my system.

1006
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 4: There's one thing I always wanted to know, you know.

1007
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 4: At this time, also like hip hop is also finding

1008
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 4: its legs and developing, and you know, pretty much, I

1009
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 4: guess the the modus operandi of hip hop was was

1010
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 4: kind of like, Okay, there's no more music lessons in school,

1011
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 4: so we got to figure out how to make music.

1012
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: Ah, we'll make hip hop.

1013
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm certain that you're growing up and

1014
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 4: and you know, are firsthand witness to this culture as

1015
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 4: it's starting. How how did that not call you and

1016
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 4: you still maintain like singing and traditional R and B

1017
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 4: and funk like you could. Well, yeah, you've done rap

1018
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 4: on your records, and I got to ask you about

1019
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 4: that too, But no, not really.

1020
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Actually, if you listen to some of

1021
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 2: our stuff, those beats are actually imitating some of the

1022
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 2: hip hop that was coming around.

1023
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

1024
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 2: But you just Africa Bombarda because I thought there was

1025
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 2: a place for melodics and storytelling in the way I could.

1026
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 2: I wasn't a rapper, was I wasn't a rapper, and

1027
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 2: I thought there was still a place for the context

1028
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 2: of what I was doing over these bombastic beats that

1029
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 2: would still work so and there were other guys who

1030
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 2: were just they were just doing it so much better,

1031
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 2: and I just had to remain kind of authentic to

1032
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: what system is.

1033
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 4: That was what I was leading into, because the thing

1034
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 4: is is that you know the kind of the genre

1035
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 4: of freestyle, you know, the kind of Stevie B Planet

1036
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 4: Man Tronic sort of eight a weight lead break dance

1037
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 4: and music, which is clearly more on the hip hop

1038
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 4: side of the fence than you know, there's some other

1039
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 4: guys like I don't know the names, like the guy

1040
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 4: that saying like your little brother, or.

1041
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 1: Nolan Thomas, Nolan Thomas, how do you know that.

1042
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 5: I'm in a nucleus jam on it, Yeah, or even

1043
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 5: like the street dance guy.

1044
00:55:55,080 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 4: I forget his name, I forget his name, but yeah,

1045
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 4: Like however, it's it's like the particular lane that you

1046
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 4: guys occupied, even though it has the ingredients, like I know,

1047
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 4: like the DMX was was sort of the the secret weapon. Yes,

1048
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 4: so you guys weren't using a lin drum and you

1049
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 4: weren't using an Ato eight yet I almost feel like,

1050
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 4: you know, between what Prince was developing, which was more

1051
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 4: purple print whatever I call it purple music, yeah, and

1052
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 4: the freestyle stuff that was more closer to Shannon, you know,

1053
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 4: you know, like the Shannon freestyle breakdancy nuclear stuff. You

1054
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 4: guys were closer to New Jack Swing to me minus

1055
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 4: minus the go go overs. No no, no, no, no,

1056
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 4: I don't mean that. What I'm saying is the seeds,

1057
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 4: like your your beats were hard enough to wrap over

1058
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 4: and it's kind of a space that Jimmy Jam and

1059
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 4: Terry Lewis weren't occupying just yet because they were in

1060
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 4: anally territory. But what I wanted to know is, like,

1061
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 4: how like as far as you like going to nightclubs

1062
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 4: and whatnot, Like, are you guys saying yourself like, yo,

1063
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 4: we got to compete with these loud ass drums and no.

1064
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 2: But did you hear baptize the beat? Ever?

1065
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 3: Baptized the beat? Street sounds right?

1066
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 2: Our record? Yeah? Our record baptized the beat? That was

1067
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: that off kilter. We were doing it. We just were

1068
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 2: doing it our way, and we were listening to everything

1069
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 2: that was going on. And you know, my lesson was

1070
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 2: always be different, just just stay just stay the course

1071
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: and be different.

1072
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 4: I have a prince question. Has anyone played you his

1073
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 4: version of your in my system?

1074
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? I've heard it, yes, yes, wow, okay, yeah, it's

1075
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 2: mostly Line and him kind of okay.

1076
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 4: So, in in light of the the Beatles documentary that

1077
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 4: you know is on Disney now, the Get Back documentary,

1078
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 4: which I you know, I feel is fascinating people not

1079
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 4: baptized the music, We'll say that it might be a

1080
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 4: little excessive for nine hours of watching them try to

1081
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 4: make a record. However of it I think that's a

1082
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 4: very important documentary only in the fact that you truly

1083
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 4: get to see how records get made, which in the

1084
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 4: case of the Beatles, it seems like they're two default

1085
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 4: go to places whenever they get stuck for an idea,

1086
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 4: like Paul will tend to go back to earlier Beatles songs,

1087
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 4: so he'll go back to you know, he'll start singing

1088
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 4: Lovely Redo or.

1089
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 2: Mad or.

1090
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: He'll go back to that.

1091
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 4: And John Lennon's go to thing is either Little Richard

1092
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 4: or Chuck Berry, like every three seconds is like wop

1093
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 4: boba bamboo. And the thing is is that when you're

1094
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 4: writing songs, you have to do you know, I've gone

1095
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 4: on record to say, like, you know, D'Angelo and I

1096
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 4: would do entire prints albums, and then one song will

1097
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,959
Speaker 4: spark an idea like, well keep on doing that again,

1098
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 4: and then you morph into another song. So in the

1099
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 4: case of Prince I always wondered and obsessed over the

1100
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 4: fact that when he's creating music, like is he aware

1101
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 4: of other music at the time, or is he just

1102
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 4: in his own private bubble in which you know, he's

1103
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 4: just alone, isolated and coming up with this brilliant stuff,

1104
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 4: or is he actually aware of what black music is

1105
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 4: doing and then creating his own thing and kind of

1106
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 4: you know, I finally got my answer and hearing, so

1107
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 4: you know, I, you know, after he died in selling

1108
00:59:53,960 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 4: like just a whole mountain load of Prince sound checks

1109
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 4: and mainly like his sound checks to me, like tell

1110
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 4: the best story of his creativity, because you know, he'll

1111
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 4: riff on a line for five hours in a row

1112
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 4: before it's lunch breaking.

1113
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: So there's a moment.

1114
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 4: There's a moment where kind of at the tail end

1115
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 4: of the nineteen ninety nine rehearsals before they go on

1116
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 4: the road, you know, they pretty much they play you know,

1117
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 4: karaoke and for them. But the reason why, you know,

1118
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 4: people of diden't ask like, well, why didn't he learn

1119
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 4: the song? I think the whole idea is not to

1120
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 4: learn the songs or learn the changes. Like you learn

1121
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 4: one part of it and hopefully if you repeat it

1122
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 4: enough then it becomes something else. And there's a moment

1123
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 4: where you clearly like in this forty minute version of

1124
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 4: your and my system, he will eventually morph that into

1125
01:00:55,840 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 4: what we know as the bird, but it starts. I

1126
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 4: find it fascinating that once once you know, once I

1127
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 4: spent a year just listening to those sound checks. Then

1128
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 4: I realized, like, oh, so he listens to modern radio

1129
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 4: and then learns it and then tries to unlearn it

1130
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 4: and morph it into his music.

1131
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: Like how I mean to know what he morphed into.

1132
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 4: I know, back then it probably wasn't obvious that he

1133
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 4: was gonna be king or like a god in music.

1134
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 4: But I mean, I'm certain that it has to feel

1135
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 4: somewhat like validating that you're definitely one of the pegs

1136
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 4: that helped him climb to a hit, which is you know,

1137
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 4: the Bird for the Time.

1138
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it feels good. I mean, if you're trying

1139
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 2: to get around to how to how David and I right,

1140
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,919
Speaker 2: I don't do that at all with David. So our

1141
01:01:54,000 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 2: process is more David thinks more like he's Beethoven. I'm not,

1142
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 2: I'm being honest with you. Yeah, he's thinking, yeah, does

1143
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 2: it fit into the context of what's going on now

1144
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 2: in music? No, that's kind of my job to edit

1145
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 2: that music together, because sometimes you hear long landscapes of

1146
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 2: some of the things we have or what they became.

1147
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 2: There's modulations and then there's time. So I kind of

1148
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 2: I'll inspire him when he thinks and ideas no good

1149
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 2: like he played during My System for me the baseline

1150
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 2: when we because we were working on the album. I

1151
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 2: would go, we'd spend two three hours, you know, writing

1152
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 2: songs because we both had to do other gigs to survive,

1153
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 2: and that was one idea. He was like, I don't know,

1154
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 2: what do you think I don't like. I'm like stop.

1155
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 2: I'm like stop, yes, yes, that baseline. I'm like, no, stop,

1156
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 2: give it to me. So a lot of times it

1157
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 2: would be like what he thinks is the chorus, I

1158
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 2: think is the verse? You have a section, Maybe he

1159
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 2: thinks that's the A section. But I will edit it together,

1160
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 2: even back then from the beginning. I'll edit it together

1161
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 2: and move things around to make it be what I

1162
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 2: hear as not commercial, but something that that I could

1163
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 2: sing over and somebody else could sing over. You know.

1164
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 2: People ain't singing over modulations and people ain't singing over

1165
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 2: you know. So I will edit into a piece, and

1166
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 2: I'll send it back to him and say, hey, try this,

1167
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 2: and then we'll take it a step Further'll be like, oh, yeah,

1168
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 2: I never thought of that. We'll take no, that's not

1169
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 2: he'll be like, no, that's not the chorus, that's the verse.

1170
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, let me give me a minute, let me

1171
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 2: let me ride this out for you, let me get

1172
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 2: sexy on you, let me show you, and then you

1173
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 2: will come up with you in my system. So that's

1174
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 2: kind of how it works, and that's kind of how

1175
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 2: it's worked throughout our career. You know. We never I

1176
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 2: don't listen to anything else and suggests, Hey, we need

1177
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 2: something that sounds like this. Okay, So he may have

1178
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 2: ten ideas on a on a cassette and send them

1179
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: from you, just little pieces, and I'll say, I like

1180
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 2: this piece, this piece of that piece. Let's work on these,

1181
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 2: and we'll work on it. I'll be like, we need

1182
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 2: a B section, or we need a we need a chorus,

1183
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 2: we need the chorus to hit more, and we'll work

1184
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 2: on that and we'll mold it and slowly, but surely,

1185
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,959
Speaker 2: I'm saying solely surely, but sometimes only within an hour

1186
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 2: or two hours, we'll have the shape and the form

1187
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 2: of a song.

1188
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 4: Wait a minute, I'm so glad I'm talking to you

1189
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 4: right now, because there's two questions I've been dying, dying

1190
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 4: to ask you or Frank and I can't believe this

1191
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 4: is the moment. First of all, one one of the

1192
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 4: secret sauces in the group, in my opinion, was always

1193
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 4: you gotta please tell me about the great Paul Pascoe

1194
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 4: on guitar. Next, what what David Williams is to Michael Jackson.

1195
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 4: You know, David Williams has probably been the most consistent,

1196
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 4: steady thing and Michael like not even Michael Jackson is

1197
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 4: consistent and steady through his career, through you know, creativity, physicality, whatever.

1198
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 4: David Williams is almost the most consistent. The sound of

1199
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 4: his guitar from like that line of Billy Jean to

1200
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 4: want to be starting stuff, Like the sound of that

1201
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 4: loud pluck guitar. I think next to David Williams, Paul

1202
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 4: Pesco has one of the most distinctive act sounds, like

1203
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 4: he's well speaking of Madonna. Uh, he's that work on

1204
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 4: I think Lucky Star, that's him.

1205
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 2: Yep, Yep, he's on. He's on a lot of that stuff.

1206
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: Oh, he's the the ah CC Music Factory.

1207
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, he's on a lot of stuff.

1208
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: Haull of notes like adult education.

1209
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 4: All that tell me about Paul Pesco, Like I never

1210
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 4: heard any stories about him.

1211
01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Paul is just a wonderful, wonderful guy. We

1212
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 2: this is for you. This is Paul Pesco. I don't

1213
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 2: know if you know our song this is for you.

1214
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 2: Uh huh, this is for you. He's the guy. He's

1215
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 2: the guy. Really, him and him and David, they would

1216
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 2: get together and cook up some things. This is for

1217
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 2: you as one. I want to make you feel good.

1218
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 2: That's Paul and David cooking up that that plectrum on

1219
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,439
Speaker 2: I want to make you feel good. The lines. Yes,

1220
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 2: he's he's basically like a line and a kachunka guy.

1221
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 2: But also he's he's very cordy. He knows his chords,

1222
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 2: he knows how to create atmosphere and mood. Just a

1223
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 2: brilliant guy. Love. I love the guy. I love the

1224
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 2: way he plays, I love the way he thinks.

1225
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 4: Okay, my second question, when you know your your your

1226
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 4: first record comes out when I'm twelve, and I swear

1227
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 4: to God, I swear up and down because I swear

1228
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 4: that's your voice.

1229
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 1: I'm hearing.

1230
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 4: I swear up and down. There's a there's a local hit. Well,

1231
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's a local hit or a

1232
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 4: local group New York group. I need to know, did

1233
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 4: you have anything to do? There was a song that

1234
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 4: used to always play in Philadelphia. It's the name of

1235
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 4: the song. It's not Attitude. It's a song called We

1236
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 4: Got the Juice. Do you know the song?

1237
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course I know. We produced Attitude is our group.

1238
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 2: We created Regia gem In Lewis. We created that group.

1239
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 2: Bernard singing on that. I'm singing La la, Chris Tello,

1240
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 2: that's that's swear.

1241
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: You boys don't need to find like you're you always

1242
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 1: yelled on your.

1243
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 2: Records and it's when.

1244
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 4: I was a kid, I always thought that was the

1245
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 4: system and someone corrected me, like at a record store

1246
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 4: once and I never you know, I forgot the name

1247
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 4: of the song, but I always swore that We Got

1248
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 4: the Juice was like the follow up.

1249
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: So that was Bernard Powers group or.

1250
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 2: No, well that was if that look. I was following

1251
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 2: the Fred Petroz model. You have a band, you have

1252
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 2: a band, the system, and then you can expand that

1253
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 2: sound to another use kind of change the attitude of

1254
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 2: it and create a whole other bank of songs. We

1255
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 2: wrote all of Cindy Mazell sings on it. Who was

1256
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 2: someone who sang a lot of Yeah, she sings on

1257
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 2: Lisa Fisher sings on it, La La sings on it.

1258
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 2: Bernard follows sings on it. It was just our way

1259
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 2: to spread the juice.

1260
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: But it was clearly that song could have been the

1261
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: next single on the System album.

1262
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 4: Like so obviously you're you're saying you're creating your your

1263
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 4: your not your competition, sort of like printing the time,

1264
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 4: like you had to grow your own.

1265
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 2: Crist Yeah, exactly, to be honest, Yeah, that's what we're

1266
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,600
Speaker 2: that's what we were doing. Exactly what my that was

1267
01:08:57,640 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 2: my idea.

1268
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 4: I found out recently that Charlie xc X finally admitted

1269
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 4: to me that what's the name of the idiom song that's.

1270
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't care.

1271
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 1: I love it.

1272
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, I love that song. Yeah.

1273
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: Charlie actually basically admitted to me that that group never existed.

1274
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: They just found two models to sing that song.

1275
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 2: Band.

1276
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, But she was more coming from the place where

1277
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 4: she felt that the song was still cartoony, that no

1278
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 4: one would take her series as an artist. So like

1279
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 4: the the compromise was, we'll still release the song, but

1280
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 4: we'll do it under like it won't be a Charlie

1281
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 4: X record.

1282
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 1: I get it now. So did you just feel that

1283
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: we got the juice wasn't like serious enough for the System,

1284
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:51,440
Speaker 1: but it was still a good song that worked.

1285
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:54,799
Speaker 2: No, well, we had I think we had the System

1286
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 2: System record then and it was still climbing and we

1287
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 2: were still touring it. And I really took a page

1288
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 2: at a Prince's book with the Time, because actually I

1289
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 2: saw I saw Prince at the Ritz and the Time

1290
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 2: was an opening act, but I know it was Prince's band.

1291
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:15,799
Speaker 2: They had on these black robe hoodie costumes. You couldn't

1292
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 2: see their faces, so they were the band playing and

1293
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, we could could do something like

1294
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 2: that in New York. We could like, I could come

1295
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 2: up with another group. We have enough musicians around. Really,

1296
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 2: that was really the thinking, to be real honest with you.

1297
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 1: So was was that song also your version of the

1298
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 1: Times wild and Loose? Always?

1299
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 4: You know, I always keep clear like derivative of wild

1300
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 4: and loose, like that was your version of it?

1301
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't. I really didn't listen to the

1302
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 2: Time that much except seven seven, seven ninety three eleven.

1303
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 3: That was.

1304
01:10:55,800 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 2: That was my joint back then. That was my joint. Oh,

1305
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 2: Frankie Kraker had this saying on the radio, we got

1306
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 2: the juice, so I knew we could come up with

1307
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 2: something using that that he would play it, and he

1308
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: did and it spread, it spread it Just.

1309
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 4: So, how is how is touring for you guys? Doing

1310
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 4: this when when the album takes off?

1311
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's if I have any regrets, I

1312
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 2: kind of regret that we didn't turn the touring thing

1313
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 2: into a bigger thing, because when the records took off,

1314
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 2: we had calls to produce records in the UK. We

1315
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 2: had called We produced a lot of Howard Johnson, Nick

1316
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 2: and Valerie Simpson.

1317
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 1: What did you work on?

1318
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: I can Nick and val Yeah, it comes, it comes

1319
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 2: with the package, you know. That's all. We did like

1320
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 2: three songs on that album. Okay, I think we're the

1321
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 2: only people ever produced to produce them. We did. Uh,

1322
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 2: We produced a lot of records and I think that

1323
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 2: was an era for what we could have done, you

1324
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 2: know from the live avenue. So we we did some victures.

1325
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 2: We did Marvin Gaye's tour that was a that was

1326
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 2: a big tour. We did Ready for the Yes, Yes,

1327
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 2: that's correct, Yes, can you.

1328
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 1: Oh wait, was it you guys Imagination?

1329
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 2: Well, we did in the UK. We did do some

1330
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 2: dates with Imagination also because they were kind of a

1331
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 2: similar We were in a similar.

1332
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 1: Vibe, so he wanted somebody really contemporary to open.

1333
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we had I don't think, I'm not sure

1334
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 2: what do we have. Don't disturb this group at that time?

1335
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: What do you know that this is your and my system?

1336
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 4: This is like eighty three eighty four, so it's probably

1337
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 4: the Experiment record and Sweat Yeah, and.

1338
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 2: It also may have been out Himan too, because you know,

1339
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:50,320
Speaker 2: I want a neat, neat concert, show up on time,

1340
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 2: do the gig, get on, get off, easy, turnaround, no

1341
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 2: big nine piece horn band. You know, we we fifth

1342
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 2: the bill in a lot of ways because we travel light.

1343
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 2: But that's kind of my one regret that we didn't

1344
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 2: really build up what we could do live with the system.

1345
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 4: When you're performing live, because the albums are so have

1346
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 4: very distinctive like electronic sounds how and you know, also

1347
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 4: going off these Prince rehearsals, which I know he had

1348
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 4: to sort of turn serious miracles to get the sound

1349
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:35,480
Speaker 4: of the studio to duplicate that live.

1350
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: Like how easy is it to do? That stuff live.

1351
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 2: Nah, that was easy. Look, we have we have a

1352
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 2: keyboard player, Chris Kello. I don't know if you know

1353
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 2: who he is, but he's a phenomenal Now he wrote,

1354
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 2: he's the one who did all the arrangements for Dian Warren.

1355
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:56,480
Speaker 2: But he was a young kid. He was like maybe

1356
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 2: fourteen or fifteen when his mom when I asked his mom,

1357
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 2: can you let him come on the road with us?

1358
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 2: That I'm putting him in fifte maybe he was sixteen.

1359
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe him and Bernard Wright were arch rivals in

1360
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 2: that area of Queens. They were both like idiots, suvant

1361
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:21,640
Speaker 2: genius keybop players, but all that sixteenth note and he

1362
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 2: could do all of that stuff. So we really didn't

1363
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 2: have a live both him and David David very dexterous,

1364
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 2: both hands keep what Chris, very dexterous, Paul. That was

1365
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 2: That was not the hard part. Hard part was kind

1366
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 2: of convincing David to maybe add a drummer or ad

1367
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, add that other component that

1368
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 2: would allow us to have that push and pull that

1369
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 2: you know you can only get with a live band.

1370
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 2: Those hits, those accents, you can only get that with

1371
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 2: a live band. You know, and have to playing with

1372
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 2: live bands. I know you need that. So and also

1373
01:14:56,439 --> 01:15:00,040
Speaker 2: it was very compelling all these production offers and and

1374
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 2: you know, you kind of just you write the songs,

1375
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:06,800
Speaker 2: you get to publishing, you get the production fee. You know,

1376
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,839
Speaker 2: it's you're on the road, you're spending spending, spending, spending,

1377
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. It was like that kind

1378
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 2: of balance of you know, being away from home.

1379
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 1: And right, I have I have a this is My

1380
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:20,679
Speaker 1: Night question?

1381
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 4: Of course, you know you you and David are You're

1382
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 4: brought aboard by the great Uh.

1383
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: I always mess up his name. This guy's my my hero. Yeah.

1384
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 4: How you know, Atlantic house producer and you know average

1385
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:43,519
Speaker 4: wipe in He produced Shaka Cohn's first like six solo records,

1386
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 4: and you know, it was a it was kind of

1387
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 4: a big deal when Shaka's I Feel for You album

1388
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 4: came out, in which you know, this is clearly them

1389
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:57,240
Speaker 4: acknowledging the power of hip hop and where music is going.

1390
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:01,559
Speaker 4: So it's a less jazzy record and more leaning towards

1391
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 4: the future. But there's there's a question I always had

1392
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 4: about this is My Night, and this leads to a

1393
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 4: I don't know if the grace period has passed that

1394
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 4: I can actually say the name of this particular Thursday

1395
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:20,559
Speaker 4: night institutional comedy show that all of America religiously watched

1396
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 4: all the eighties. But there's a moment in in that

1397
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 4: particular black comedy show on NBC at eight o'clock on Thursday, Yes,

1398
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 4: before Family Dies. So there's there's an iconic episode. There's

1399
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 4: an iconic episode where the youngest daughter of the brood

1400
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 4: has a sleepover and you know, one of the one

1401
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 4: of the kids that are having a sleepover is.

1402
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:55,799
Speaker 1: Is Alicia Keys. So there's there's there's a really funny,

1403
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: cool moment that connects you guys with this episode in

1404
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 1: which kind of, uh, just randomly call these two kids

1405
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 1: THEO and Denise maybe yeah yeah maybe yeah where where

1406
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:10,080
Speaker 1: they are.

1407
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:15,280
Speaker 4: Having a quickie like dance party with the kids and

1408
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 4: they're dancing to a version of This is My Night

1409
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 4: that is not the album version of This is My Night.

1410
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 4: And I make fun of Alicia Keys because she's the

1411
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 4: only kid in this in this group you YouTube it

1412
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 4: Rudy sleepover, it like she's the only kid that clearly

1413
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 4: has two left feet, uh, in the scene. It's funny,

1414
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 4: but it might assume that before that song was submitted

1415
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 4: to Shaka, that you guys demoed it, or because that

1416
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 4: version of this is My Night is not the version

1417
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 4: from Shaka Khan, but it's clearly like a different So

1418
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 4: I just wanted to know, like.

1419
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 2: I gotta hear it. But we demo. To be honest,

1420
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 2: we demo every song. We never go and cold the record,

1421
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 2: so we demoed. So the way that came about we

1422
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 2: were recording at Atlantic Studios. Reef was in the studio A.

1423
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 2: We were in Studio B, the Hallway studio, and we

1424
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 2: were working on Don't Diserve This Groove, and he came

1425
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 2: and asked, hey, you guys have anything for Haka, and

1426
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 2: we worked on it like overnight. The next day we

1427
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 2: turned it into him and he was like, yeah, we're

1428
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 2: going to record it. But he also, don't diserve this groove.

1429
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 2: You if you if you know the song in the

1430
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 2: middle section, there's a female, right, So we played them

1431
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 2: don't diserve this group because we respected him, We respect

1432
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 2: him so much, and he said, all you need to

1433
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 2: do is add the girl at the girl in the middle,

1434
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 2: that's all. And you have a you have you have,

1435
01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:46,600
Speaker 2: you have a smash, So we added the girl in

1436
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 2: the middle and we had a smash And.

1437
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 1: He talked about that.

1438
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 3: He was talking about the middle part in the hook that.

1439
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, we had we had that already,

1440
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 2: We had that close the door and turned up. Yeah,

1441
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 2: we had that hook already. We had everything, but the

1442
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:07,240
Speaker 2: middle we didn't have that. But he said at the

1443
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 2: girl at a groot in.

1444
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:12,840
Speaker 1: The middle, who was the girl who was singing that part?

1445
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 2: We had Orgie Wheeler, Cindy Mizelle singing in the chorus,

1446
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:18,559
Speaker 2: and wait.

1447
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 1: Jie Willard from uh uh Unlimited touch ar you will yep.

1448
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of our stuff.

1449
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 1: You killing give that facts she's lessend there.

1450
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:35,720
Speaker 2: BJ Nelson, that's that's BJ. In the solo section, that's

1451
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 2: my girl. I love you BJ. Yeah. BJ sang the

1452
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 2: middle eight, Audie Wheeler, Cindy I think sang with me

1453
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 2: on the hook, or maybe it was just Audrey and

1454
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 2: BJ on the on the chorus hookst BJ sang the

1455
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 2: lead in the middle of the call and response.

1456
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 5: What did you think of Michelle's cover of that I

1457
01:19:56,120 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 5: Love her? So Look Miche.

1458
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 2: Michelle and so so I co I co produced her

1459
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 2: first album. The first three songs. I got shafted out

1460
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 2: of the credit. I was a vocal.

1461
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 10: Product plantation, yeah, dread dreadlocks, Yeah yeah, I produced that

1462
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 10: vocal yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I got.

1463
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 2: I got kind of shafted by the credit by someone

1464
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 2: who I brought up in the business, in the game.

1465
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:30,640
Speaker 2: Who kind of I ended up? I ended up?

1466
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 3: I was thinking Gamson, No, not.

1467
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 2: Gamson, Gamson's my man, bets I got. I got chefted

1468
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 2: on the credit. Yeah, I got shifted on the credit.

1469
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:43,679
Speaker 2: But yeah, she acknowledged it, she said. When the song

1470
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:46,640
Speaker 2: was released, she said, for those in the know, McMurphy

1471
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:48,719
Speaker 2: co produced you know, my first, my first record.

1472
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:50,720
Speaker 6: I know she'sout giving credits because she.

1473
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:55,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love I love Michelle, love her from

1474
01:20:55,320 --> 01:21:00,719
Speaker 2: day one, love everything she does, everything she touches. I'm

1475
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:04,680
Speaker 2: just you know, I was. I was so proud to

1476
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:08,879
Speaker 2: actually I to that point. That was my proudest production

1477
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 2: moment really honestly, because the whole record was so beautiful

1478
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,600
Speaker 2: and just attitude, and you know, I love her and

1479
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 2: everything she does.

1480
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: Is there any other stuff you worked on that you.

1481
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,800
Speaker 2: I co wrote Secret Garden from Madonna. I didn't get

1482
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 2: a proper credit. Yeah, yep.

1483
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:32,479
Speaker 6: So y'all did end up working together.

1484
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:36,439
Speaker 2: Yes, yes we did. And I wrote another song. So

1485
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 2: I wrote the song to your father, which she called

1486
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 2: me up when she was working on the album, called me.

1487
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:48,720
Speaker 2: She said, McMurphy, McMurphy, I'm gonna make you rich. You're

1488
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:52,679
Speaker 2: gonna be You're gonna be rich McMurphy out of the song.

1489
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 2: The song didn't make it on the album. And and

1490
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 2: Secret Garden I played. I played the instrument and the

1491
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:02,720
Speaker 2: chords too. I didn't get any credit, but you know,

1492
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 2: life is life, man.

1493
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:07,679
Speaker 5: Another cat I wanted to ask you about from from

1494
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 5: that era that was kind of moving and shaking chet Pettybone.

1495
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 3: Did you guys ever have any dealings working together?

1496
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, he remixed a bunch of System cuts, and uh,

1497
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 2: I know David played on a bunch of his remixes. Okay,

1498
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 2: but he did remix a bunch of system songs at

1499
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:22,639
Speaker 2: some point.

1500
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 3: Okay.

1501
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:28,600
Speaker 1: Oh, can you can you please settle this once and

1502
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 1: for all? All right?

1503
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 4: I recently found out that it wasn't you, but I

1504
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 4: will say that for the last thirty five years I

1505
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:43,439
Speaker 4: would have put my life on the fact that you

1506
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:46,280
Speaker 4: were the voice so glow of glo.

1507
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 2: Shut up. Really that was that was That was Chris.

1508
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:55,760
Speaker 2: That was Christopher, Yeah, that was Chris was who we were.

1509
01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:57,760
Speaker 2: We were really good friends, you know, we were real

1510
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:00,360
Speaker 2: we were real friends and we still were still that

1511
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:01,679
Speaker 2: was Chris Max. Yeah.

1512
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:04,599
Speaker 9: So since we mentioned so, can I ask you about

1513
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:07,759
Speaker 9: the hair and the maintenance? And because I don't disturb

1514
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:08,680
Speaker 9: this groove, it was.

1515
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had, I had, I had well started. My

1516
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 2: first One of my first girlfriends was a hairdresser, so

1517
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:19,680
Speaker 2: she taught me early to maintain and she would like

1518
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:21,600
Speaker 2: she would print it and get it right, and it

1519
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:24,600
Speaker 2: just it just it became like a vegetable that just

1520
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 2: kept growing. It took on the life of its own.

1521
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 6: Some aquaint would help with help with the.

1522
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 2: You know, I would tie it up at night. I

1523
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 2: would tied it up at night like a bouffonp.

1524
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 6: I love it like the girl on a chair.

1525
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 4: Yes, you see, I sleep on the pillows right here,

1526
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:48,639
Speaker 4: just like like Friday.

1527
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 1: She doesn't let her hair touch the bib.

1528
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:53,679
Speaker 2: Yep.

1529
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 5: Do you remember when you were we all recorded I

1530
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 5: know the song Baptized Beat, but recording the scene for

1531
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 5: Beat Street.

1532
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 3: Do you remember anything about that?

1533
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:10,640
Speaker 2: They was that? Yeah, very clearly. Well, it was that

1534
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 2: what's this club on twenty second Street? The uh, it

1535
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:17,000
Speaker 2: was a roller skating rink. It was a roller skating

1536
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 2: rink on twenty seven, twenty eighth Street, and everybody was there,

1537
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:26,759
Speaker 2: all these different acts, and I know we we performed

1538
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:29,280
Speaker 2: the song and when we were done, they were like next.

1539
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:32,000
Speaker 2: In the edits, they said next. But I thought we had.

1540
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,360
Speaker 2: I thought we had the slam in the song. I

1541
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:37,320
Speaker 2: thought baptized the beat, And to this day, I think

1542
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 2: it's one of the most inventive songs lyrically. Beat wise

1543
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:47,880
Speaker 2: changes the bridges, everything about it. Yes, it's it's it's

1544
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 2: some fly shit for me, it's it's.

1545
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: Not y'all would definitely better than Andy.

1546
01:24:51,840 --> 01:25:04,639
Speaker 11: Be Bad, Shine and Wine.

1547
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can tell when he planned his career, he

1548
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:08,639
Speaker 1: knew like.

1549
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 2: Yo, man, I'm just in and out.

1550
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 4: Poor guy never had a chance. Yeah, so okay, can

1551
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 4: you There's the one thing I also wanted to know

1552
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:30,640
Speaker 4: is how did the group dissolve after eighty nine? And

1553
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:32,800
Speaker 4: you know, why didn't you guys sort of try to

1554
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:34,960
Speaker 4: push it further past that point?

1555
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:39,599
Speaker 2: So let's see, we had don't disturb this groove. There's

1556
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:46,000
Speaker 2: a massive hit we did big tours next record Rhythm

1557
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 2: and Romance. I think we kind of went down the

1558
01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 2: rabbit hole of Teddy Riley style funk in our own version.

1559
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 2: I really think pretty much at that time we kind

1560
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 2: of run our course for where our heads you're at

1561
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 2: right then in terms of we would either have to

1562
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:10,640
Speaker 2: go really simpler, like really back to the basics, or

1563
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 2: I don't think we could get any bigger in terms

1564
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:16,240
Speaker 2: of the music, in terms of the chord and the

1565
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:20,800
Speaker 2: layers and the parts and the levels, And it had

1566
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 2: just to my head it had blown up into too

1567
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:31,720
Speaker 2: much to too much to digest. And David actually has

1568
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 2: started to get a lot more session worker on his own.

1569
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:40,639
Speaker 2: What is this nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety I'm kind

1570
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 2: of looking for a new direction. I'm trying to think

1571
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:48,599
Speaker 2: of something that's a little bit different. He had quite

1572
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:51,360
Speaker 2: a bit of success in that era as a keyboard

1573
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:54,880
Speaker 2: player and working and producing, and I was trying to

1574
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 2: find my own niche. I ended up going to la

1575
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:05,280
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two ninety three and forming a band

1576
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 2: with uh Just. It was really like a summer camp,

1577
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,240
Speaker 2: like a musical summer camp. We had all kind of

1578
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 2: gotten divorced, or our record deal that ended, or we

1579
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:20,080
Speaker 2: were trying to find ourselves with Andre Simone, Gard Nicole, Saint,

1580
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 2: Paul Peterson, myself. So we went there the summer nineteen

1581
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:27,000
Speaker 2: ninety three, and actually that record just came out two

1582
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 2: weeks ago, The Mighty Soulmates. It just came out, and

1583
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 2: we recorded like twenty four songs. We recorded like twenty

1584
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:41,840
Speaker 2: four songs and yeah, so we recorded actually a and

1585
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,599
Speaker 2: M record. John McLain kind of put us together because

1586
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 2: he was a friend from way back. He's the one

1587
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 2: that said keep an eye on prints. You know, once

1588
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 2: he loses that baby girl voice and starts singing in

1589
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:54,800
Speaker 2: a full voice, he gonna be a monster. He gonna

1590
01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 2: be a monster. And he turned us on kind of

1591
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 2: the Jimmy and Terry and he was really like a

1592
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:01,760
Speaker 2: like a coher driving force. So I think he said,

1593
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:04,559
Speaker 2: once you guys get together, to what you can do.

1594
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:08,799
Speaker 2: So we hold up summer garding Nicole's house in Woodland

1595
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 2: Hills for like four or five months. We wrote, literally

1596
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,760
Speaker 2: we wrote maybe more songs when we finished twenty four

1597
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:17,440
Speaker 2: twenty five songs.

1598
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 1: Not torupt But John McLean is one of the most

1599
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 1: elusive hardest cats to get. He is our dream interview.

1600
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:31,479
Speaker 4: Like he's literally the common denominator of almost every other

1601
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 4: guest on this show.

1602
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:38,879
Speaker 1: And well, well yeah, but yeah.

1603
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:41,160
Speaker 2: Dick, he has reasons. He has reasons.

1604
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:46,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, he can't make it, But I know why, why

1605
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:48,200
Speaker 4: is he such a mystery?

1606
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:52,599
Speaker 2: He kind of you know, I mean, I've spent time

1607
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 2: with him, like over the court because he really was

1608
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:57,240
Speaker 2: a fan of the system. He really was. He put

1609
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 2: us together. He brought us to produce a couple so

1610
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:02,479
Speaker 2: we did a couple of projects for him. But I

1611
01:29:02,479 --> 01:29:04,639
Speaker 2: would ride around with him in LA and we would

1612
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 2: kind of talk music and he would talk Michael John.

1613
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 2: He grew up with the Jackson family. His father, I

1614
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:12,880
Speaker 2: think was I don't want to speak out out of line,

1615
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:17,080
Speaker 2: but his father was in the underground under whatever in LA.

1616
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:22,519
Speaker 2: But John always had a brilliant ear for music and

1617
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:26,599
Speaker 2: a personality to put stuff together and just a sense

1618
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 2: of kind of what would work and who would work.

1619
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:33,040
Speaker 2: He's always had that. So he brought us together. We

1620
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:36,800
Speaker 2: spent somemer together, wrote this record, and then the earthquake

1621
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:40,360
Speaker 2: happened in January and we kind of all splintered and

1622
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:44,880
Speaker 2: all went our separate ways. I think John changed labels

1623
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 2: or whatever. And this record is sat complete since nineteen

1624
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:53,880
Speaker 2: ninety four. So I was finally able to get a

1625
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 2: deal for it with Adya Warner and the record just

1626
01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:58,320
Speaker 2: came out on on December third.

1627
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:03,280
Speaker 1: Oh. Man, Wow, that's music to my ears. Literally wow,

1628
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:05,519
Speaker 1: that's and over the course.

1629
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:09,479
Speaker 2: Also, Andre Simone and I have become brothers over the

1630
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:14,479
Speaker 2: last Actually I met. I met Andre on the Prince

1631
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 2: Rick James Clear tour. He was the only person in

1632
01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:20,960
Speaker 2: the band because I'm you know, I looked like a roady.

1633
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:23,200
Speaker 2: I'm basically a roadie. No one would no one would

1634
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:24,680
Speaker 2: look for me, no one and talk to me. But

1635
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:28,479
Speaker 2: Andre and I connected on that tour and we've remained

1636
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 2: friends ever since.

1637
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so are you You weren't in system mood yet,

1638
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:37,160
Speaker 1: You were just one of the guys in as far.

1639
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:38,639
Speaker 2: As yeah, I was just one of the guys hanging

1640
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:40,919
Speaker 2: around the edge. I don't know what you do exactly,

1641
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,680
Speaker 2: but you ain't you ain't you ain't an artist, so

1642
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:44,559
Speaker 2: you know you get so.

1643
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:50,519
Speaker 1: Love well that's beautiful man, yo. I just want to say, man,

1644
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 1: like I mean this, this is definitely a dream interview.

1645
01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:55,959
Speaker 1: Like I've always wanted to talk.

1646
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 4: To you or you know you or David either or

1647
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 4: and this is one of the moments that, you know,

1648
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:04,800
Speaker 4: definitely a highlight for me to get the nerd out

1649
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:09,559
Speaker 4: and study history here.

1650
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:14,479
Speaker 2: Actually yeah, yes, absolutely one.

1651
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:16,680
Speaker 5: And I just want to say too, man like, don't

1652
01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:19,160
Speaker 5: disturb this grooves? Like one of my favorite songs of

1653
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:23,240
Speaker 5: all times, like in any genre. I mean, you know

1654
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:24,800
Speaker 5: that song just when I was a kid and I

1655
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 5: would just hear it like, you know, in the way

1656
01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:28,000
Speaker 5: like my mom taking me to school in the morning,

1657
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:28,840
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like.

1658
01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:30,640
Speaker 3: That was just I think it's kind of still one

1659
01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:31,920
Speaker 3: of my favorite songs.

1660
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:32,879
Speaker 6: Of all the eighties babies.

1661
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 9: I mean it posted the video with jay Z just

1662
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:38,680
Speaker 9: saying it in common and this casual language like don't

1663
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:41,160
Speaker 9: disturb this groove, Like I kind of think it's like

1664
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 9: at least the top ten for most eighties babies.

1665
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:44,479
Speaker 2: No, it really might be.

1666
01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:47,599
Speaker 5: I mean, no, that that song is just an amazing record,

1667
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:48,760
Speaker 5: man Like, seriously.

1668
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 2: That.

1669
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 1: It's you know what they said, It's just.

1670
01:31:55,080 --> 01:31:57,599
Speaker 2: That's a good story about that. There's a good story.

1671
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:02,599
Speaker 2: We have time yeah, yeah, so so so when when

1672
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:06,040
Speaker 2: when we would make records, generally the label. They just

1673
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 2: let us do what we do. They just you know,

1674
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:11,280
Speaker 2: you just turn it in when you're done. So at

1675
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:14,960
Speaker 2: this point it's like we had done a system, we

1676
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:18,880
Speaker 2: had done experiment, we had done the pleasure Seekers, and

1677
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 2: now we're coming on. Don't disturb this group. The pleasure

1678
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:24,160
Speaker 2: Seekers did. It made a lot of noise. So now

1679
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:26,760
Speaker 2: it's time they want they want they want payback. They

1680
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:29,559
Speaker 2: want that money right, they need that big hit the

1681
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:33,519
Speaker 2: money record. So we knew, David and I that don't

1682
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:37,360
Speaker 2: disturb this groove was it? We we knew. So you

1683
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:39,599
Speaker 2: know you're going to a and R meeting. You're gonna

1684
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 2: play all your ship, but you're gonna save the best

1685
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:44,080
Speaker 2: one the last, right, You're gonna save the best one

1686
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:47,280
Speaker 2: for last. So we start playing the songs on the album.

1687
01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:51,280
Speaker 2: We play everything, and now we're like, okay, we got

1688
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:54,160
Speaker 2: one more to play for you hit play on the record.

1689
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:58,439
Speaker 2: It plays for about a minute, a minute and a half,

1690
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:03,000
Speaker 2: and Sylvia's says, come on, baby, I know y'all got something.

1691
01:33:03,120 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 2: I know y'all got something else, but you got what

1692
01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:10,000
Speaker 2: you got for me? Yes. So Merlin Bob, who was

1693
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 2: also he was like, really that the yeah, Merlin Bob

1694
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:19,040
Speaker 2: Merlin Merlin. Bob said no, no, no, no, no, just

1695
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:21,080
Speaker 2: wait a second, let's listen to that one more time.

1696
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:25,000
Speaker 2: And they listened to the second time, and she still

1697
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:27,599
Speaker 2: didn't want to release as the first single, but she said,

1698
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 2: all right, you know that if that's what y'all you know,

1699
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:33,000
Speaker 2: if that's what y'all want to do, I'm okay with it.

1700
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:35,440
Speaker 2: But you know, I think we is a little.

1701
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:42,559
Speaker 12: Stronger and a right about this, yes, right, all right, now,

1702
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:49,320
Speaker 12: right right, yeah.

1703
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:51,760
Speaker 6: What was her come back to you hit? What was

1704
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 6: the comeback?

1705
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:55,679
Speaker 2: No, there was no, there was there was no comeback

1706
01:33:55,760 --> 01:34:02,519
Speaker 2: that that record just went through the ceiling was not yeah, no, no, no,

1707
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:04,800
Speaker 2: we never got We never got that. But that was

1708
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:06,840
Speaker 2: kind of I thought that was an interesting story about

1709
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:09,080
Speaker 2: don't disturb the screw.

1710
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 5: So they didn't label, didn't believe in it until it

1711
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 5: until it saw it hitting it and it went out.

1712
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, until they saw some recognition from some label out

1713
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:20,080
Speaker 2: on the West coast, I think in Washington State or something.

1714
01:34:20,360 --> 01:34:22,479
Speaker 2: There was some taste to make a label. At the time.

1715
01:34:23,080 --> 01:34:25,479
Speaker 2: They said their phones were lighting up, so you know,

1716
01:34:25,720 --> 01:34:28,160
Speaker 2: that one blew up and and I really believe it's

1717
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:30,320
Speaker 2: one of our one of our best.

1718
01:34:32,280 --> 01:34:36,680
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely, yes. All right, so just before we

1719
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:40,360
Speaker 1: sign off, any other secret projects you've you've done that

1720
01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:42,040
Speaker 1: we don't know about.

1721
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:46,880
Speaker 6: Come on, let's give you a lot.

1722
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:49,920
Speaker 2: I know I've done a lot, but I don't know

1723
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 2: what I think. I think that Michelle and the Madonna

1724
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:56,639
Speaker 2: stuff is kind of really what I'm I'm kind of proud.

1725
01:34:56,439 --> 01:35:05,400
Speaker 1: Of stuff you there. No, thank you very much.

1726
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:09,080
Speaker 2: Man, Thank you for having me. Man. I really appreciate

1727
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:09,559
Speaker 2: you guys.

1728
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:12,360
Speaker 3: All right, man, thank you for the music well for real?

1729
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I want to shout out to my brother,

1730
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:20,360
Speaker 2: David Frank. We've been on this road since nineteen eighty one,

1731
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:23,960
Speaker 2: even earlier because he was in clear. My love for him,

1732
01:35:24,040 --> 01:35:27,439
Speaker 2: my love for his talent, my respect for him, and

1733
01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:31,200
Speaker 2: him getting on board with all my crazy ideas and

1734
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:34,720
Speaker 2: my crazy energy. I got so much love for him.

1735
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:37,000
Speaker 2: And we actually we have a record on the griddle

1736
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:41,639
Speaker 2: right now that's being mixed in LA. It's a new

1737
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:47,240
Speaker 2: system record being mixed by Tom Lloyd Algae and Jimmy Douglas.

1738
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:55,680
Speaker 5: Okay, songs are finished, Jimmy Senator Jimmy d Yeah, yes, yes, okay.

1739
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:57,360
Speaker 2: No, we're not we're not playing but you know, we

1740
01:35:57,400 --> 01:35:59,599
Speaker 2: need the right we need the right place to write

1741
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,880
Speaker 2: home to get it out in this new world. But

1742
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:05,439
Speaker 2: it's I think it's going to be a sensational.

1743
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:08,240
Speaker 1: Record as as you're doing this, I promise this.

1744
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:12,479
Speaker 4: My last question, are you are you aware of the

1745
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:17,639
Speaker 4: sort of the phase of like throwback that that sound

1746
01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:20,880
Speaker 4: that you guys helped create, like from groups like Tuxedo

1747
01:36:22,040 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 4: or up in Canada there's what's the a trax brother's.

1748
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:32,240
Speaker 5: Name, Oh, Chromeo, Chromeo like, and we're not We're not throwback,

1749
01:36:32,280 --> 01:36:33,280
Speaker 5: but the Foreign Exchange.

1750
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:35,479
Speaker 3: I mean, me and my brother, we are very much

1751
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:36,840
Speaker 3: inspired by y'all. For real.

1752
01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:42,599
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, are you against like Oftentimes people

1753
01:36:42,680 --> 01:36:44,800
Speaker 4: say like no, let's push forward, let's push forward, But

1754
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:48,519
Speaker 4: I swear there's just a generation of people that are

1755
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:53,920
Speaker 4: starving for like authentic like pulling out the DMX drum machine,

1756
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 4: pulling out the Oberheim synthesizer, that sort of thing. Are

1757
01:36:57,920 --> 01:36:59,760
Speaker 4: are you guys going back to square one with us?

1758
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:03,640
Speaker 2: We for the most part, yes, but we're down with

1759
01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:10,800
Speaker 2: your quest. You've got an idea, brother, we'll make a real, real,

1760
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:14,479
Speaker 2: simple and basic I mean, well that's that's what we're about.

1761
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:16,559
Speaker 2: That's what we're trying to get you right now.

1762
01:37:18,200 --> 01:37:20,759
Speaker 1: This might be a mission for Zoe and.

1763
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:22,439
Speaker 2: Man.

1764
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:28,920
Speaker 3: I mean I'm listening. I mean listen. Here said, here's an.

1765
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:30,280
Speaker 2: Open for all. He's your man.

1766
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:33,320
Speaker 1: I will do the documentary on it, I promise ye.

1767
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:34,679
Speaker 2: Here's an open.

1768
01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:36,559
Speaker 1: That's beautiful.

1769
01:37:37,160 --> 01:37:39,840
Speaker 4: Well, once again, thank you very much for joining us,

1770
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:41,599
Speaker 4: Sugar Steve anything any.

1771
01:37:42,120 --> 01:37:45,280
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for chiming for your music.

1772
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:47,920
Speaker 2: Michael, thank you, thank you, thank you having me.

1773
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:49,479
Speaker 1: All right, all right, we'll talk to you later.

1774
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:51,080
Speaker 3: I'll be good.

1775
01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:13,400
Speaker 1: M What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.

1776
01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:21,559
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1777
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:24,799
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.