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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Quest Love Supreme, y'all, and this is a tradition

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Speaker 1: for us. At March, we are celebrating Women's History Month

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Speaker 1: with some special programming drawing from nearly a decade of

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Speaker 1: shows and conversations.

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Speaker 2: This is part two.

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Speaker 1: You know, it goes without saying that despite where we

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Speaker 1: are currently in present day times, it is important to

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Speaker 1: be an ally to women to lift up their voices. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: I believe that they are the leaders of now. We

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Speaker 1: as men need to take a back seat, and I'm

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Speaker 1: all for that. So despite what you hear in the

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Speaker 1: news as far as like how businesses are run, I

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Speaker 1: will continue to keep that promise to elevate. And you

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Speaker 1: clearly see, like with my staff, my management, the artists

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Speaker 1: that I choose to highlight, it's all about allyship and

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Speaker 1: that's what we're about here. Being raised by my mother,

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Speaker 1: my mother was always quick to pull me aside if

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Speaker 1: she ever felt that the seeds of anything toxic was

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Speaker 1: about to start coming down the pike. And you know,

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Speaker 1: she would quickly remind me that, you know, you better

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Speaker 1: learn from this situation that when you're grown up you know,

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Speaker 1: a woman's not going to tolerate this type of behavior.

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Speaker 1: You know, she kept me in a constant practice, not

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Speaker 1: just when your mom's around you start, you know, acting up.

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Speaker 1: But she taught me early about the importance of this

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Speaker 1: and so women are not a threat. They deserve agency

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Speaker 1: and are full support. Here's Shaka Khan from twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: The clip is only a few minutes long, but it

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Speaker 1: says a lot. Shaka touches on pivoting outside of rufus

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Speaker 1: and some of the judgments and complications she felt as

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Speaker 1: a pregnant.

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Speaker 2: Artist at the time.

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Speaker 1: She also speaks about her reluctance to sing I'm every woman,

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Speaker 1: Shaka on behalf of everybody. We're very glad you did, though,

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Speaker 1: do you explain to your guys like, Okay, well I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do the soul project real quick, but I'll be back,

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Speaker 1: or like where was it?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I got pregnant in the until of

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Speaker 3: the beginning of that situation Otis Smith. You know, he

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Speaker 3: was trying to trap me up and everything. God bless you, ODIs,

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Speaker 3: But I'm telling the truth. He thought, you know, he

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Speaker 3: was trying to have me and I got pregnant. By

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Speaker 3: my husband. And he told me, he said, I'm how

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Speaker 3: am I gonna make a star to you if you're

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Speaker 3: gonna be having babies? I said, let me tell you something.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna be what I'm gonna be with you or

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Speaker 3: without you, around you or under you. You have nothing

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Speaker 3: to say about this.

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Speaker 4: That's crazy because how many female singers have that same story,

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Speaker 4: Like pregnancy is like.

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Speaker 3: Cat make a start. I said, I'm not you know,

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Speaker 3: a pin up. I'm an artist, you know when I'm

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Speaker 3: pregnant or not.

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Speaker 2: So so coming to the soccer project.

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Speaker 1: You work with, I mean, ar If is one of

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Speaker 1: my idols because for me, like the band that I

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Speaker 1: worshiped the most when I was a kid was the

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Speaker 1: average white man. Yeah, and so to see those names

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Speaker 1: on the credits, I was like, oh, this is gonna

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Speaker 1: be awesome.

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Speaker 2: What was it? What was it like working with him? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Oh he was like my uncle father. Really, he took

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Speaker 3: care of me. He put when I got my.

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Speaker 2: Did you see him first or did they come to you?

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Speaker 3: Like okay they put us together.

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Speaker 2: Okay, who did you initially?

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Speaker 1: Because by that point I forgot you did sounds and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that too with Quincy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well Quincy seventy six.

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Speaker 1: Was he ever in the running for a second? I

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Speaker 1: mean before Master Jam, but I mean like.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I don't know what happened behind the

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Speaker 3: scenes and stuff with that with him not working with

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Speaker 3: I think he might have been working with Michael around

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Speaker 3: that time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was so iraf and I I liked if

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Speaker 3: a lot because he had produced Aretha Franklin.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I love what you did with Donnie Hathaway, right,

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Speaker 3: and you know, so I was like, yeah, this is good,

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Speaker 3: this is good. And I mean he bought the blinds

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Speaker 3: from my apartment, he put the carpet, you know, he

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Speaker 3: took care of me like like his daughter. Well, and

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Speaker 3: you know, I was his spiritual daughter. And he told

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Speaker 3: everybody that you and told me all the time you

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Speaker 3: were my instrument. Really, you have my instrument. You can

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Speaker 3: play anything that I hear that I want.

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Speaker 1: So, how did you I mean, by that point, by

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Speaker 1: that point, you're just in full fledge of control of

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Speaker 1: your instrument, your arrangements and background.

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Speaker 3: The songs I wanted. Then, Yeah, so.

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Speaker 1: Did they write I'm every nick value right, A lot

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Speaker 1: of scientifically, Yeah, what made you choose that song?

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Speaker 3: I'll actually talked me into it because I felt like it.

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Speaker 3: I felt awkward saying the words I'm every woman. I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I thought, how dare somebody say that they're every woman?

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Speaker 3: I would just just not, you know, mentally there yet,

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Speaker 3: not saying the anthem that it will be a song.

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Speaker 2: That you because I'm a woman. I'm a backphone.

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Speaker 1: See I'm thinking in terms of like you're singing like

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Speaker 1: feminist anthems and those things.

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Speaker 2: That was just in line with you, you know.

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Speaker 1: No your womanhood and making us respect that.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I wouldn't think about womanhood at all.

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Speaker 3: I was singing songs that meant something to mean lyrics

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Speaker 3: like I'm a woman on a back on a backbone.

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Speaker 3: Your Smile was written by a woman named Lalonei Washburn.

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Speaker 3: She wrote those songs. And but when I'm every woman,

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Speaker 3: I had to grow into it. I just well, maybe

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Speaker 3: in the last ten years something got comfortable singing that

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Speaker 3: because I understood then what she was saying, you know

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Speaker 3: what they were they were writing.

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Speaker 5: I just shood, what did Whitney singing it mean to you?

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Speaker 3: She's of all the people that have covered by songs.

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Speaker 3: I had to ask her after she did it? I said, uh,

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Speaker 3: did you use my background? Or that you that's like it?

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Speaker 3: She's she's great, she was a great, great artist.

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Speaker 2: Did you do was I'm every Woman first? Or was

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Speaker 2: Clouds first? Which one.

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Speaker 1: Clouds is on the second album on because that's the

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Speaker 1: first song.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that song.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know what's doing. Whenever it's time to

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Speaker 3: make us the record, we would get our put the

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Speaker 3: word out. We would get boxes and boxes of cassettes

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Speaker 3: and we would sit and listen to songs, listening sessions,

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Speaker 3: and we would mark which songs we did were good,

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Speaker 3: and when we came down to it, he would go

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Speaker 3: on the track and write it out.

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Speaker 2: Oh you don't want to ask what were your feelings

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Speaker 2: on Snaps the Power? Uh? I got the Power specifically?

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Speaker 3: Well that was a Penny. Yeah, actually that was my gig.

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Speaker 3: I was living in England.

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Speaker 2: They for you.

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Speaker 3: They called me and asked me to come and do

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Speaker 3: this stuff with him with them, but you know, I

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Speaker 3: was having too much fun and I said a Penny.

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Speaker 3: I told him I was sick of some But I said,

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Speaker 3: pity you go to that because she Penny is one

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Speaker 3: of my students as well.

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Speaker 2: Oh you sent her to do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I said you could have that, you go do

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Speaker 3: it really? Yeah, and then I slapping myself on the

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Speaker 3: back of my head.

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Speaker 2: Was a monster. Yeah, it's so basically why Snaps.

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Speaker 3: Really the group snap?

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Speaker 2: You got it?

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Speaker 4: In the context, Penny was the one who was saying

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Speaker 4: I got the power.

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Speaker 2: But that's not the part that we're referring to. Put

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Speaker 2: you on the game.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying the whole he could break my heart

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Speaker 1: part from I Got the Power.

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Speaker 3: Love left my brother on bass, yes.

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Speaker 5: Like your brother.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: And it sped up. It got faster fast. You could

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Speaker 3: tell that that was a heart song. And Steven he

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Speaker 3: was kicking on the damn drunk, I'm mean. And somebody said,

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Speaker 3: well it gets fast. I said, the little hearts when

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Speaker 3: they're excited.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying I thought we.

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Speaker 1: Had a moment because I don't looking at me like

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Speaker 1: humble practice.

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Speaker 2: Three two. Yes, I own the snare drum that so

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Speaker 2: on some love, thank you very much.

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Speaker 3: Was it a pickolop?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Steve, Steve, I've stalk note drummer in life more

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Speaker 1: than Steve Ronie.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm literally his Yeah, I'm saying I'm in air

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Speaker 2: parent more than Clyde Stubble or any other drummer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Steve Fron's double and he as a gesture, he

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Speaker 1: gave me, uh his black and white snare that he's used, Wow,

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Speaker 1: all records.

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Speaker 3: Oh fantastic, But you don't. Miles gave me one of

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Speaker 3: his his trumpets, the blue one. But you don't what

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Speaker 3: his nephew that I could kill him.

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Speaker 2: He took it back.

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Speaker 3: I could kill him. Excuse me, almostcuse me, who can't

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Speaker 3: take it? Okay, But I'm telling you after after he

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Speaker 3: died in his in his will, he gave it to me,

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Speaker 3: and the boy kept. Every time I see him, he

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Speaker 3: shrinks and tries to hide and say, I'm gonna get

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Speaker 3: it to you. I swear I'm gonna get to you. Well,

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Speaker 3: I'm done with it now. You know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: because what Miles David said is your your voice sounds

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Speaker 3: just like my own. That was enough for me.

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Speaker 2: You have trumpet, that's enough for me.

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Speaker 3: The new the trumpet. See, I don't like usually like trumpet,

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Speaker 3: only this muted. What's that sexy? I'll make trumpet? Make sexty,

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Speaker 3: yeah baby.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, Quest Stuff Supreme recorded of Black

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Speaker 1: episodes in Atlanta, where our iHeart Partners.

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Speaker 2: Are located and based.

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Speaker 1: One of the highlights of that trip were speaking to

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Speaker 1: Stacy Abram, the politician, author and activist. Wasn't a race

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Speaker 1: to become the first black woman governor of the state,

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Speaker 1: and my role call then I called for Stacy to

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Speaker 1: run for president in twenty twenty eight, and I stand

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Speaker 1: by those words still. We asked her about the origin

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Speaker 1: of her leadership, and she explained, back when you were

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Speaker 1: in college where what were your lofty.

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Speaker 2: Goals in life?

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Speaker 1: Like are you imagining that some fifteen sixteen years later

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Speaker 1: that you'll be in the position that.

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Speaker 2: You are now? Or were you just like, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna be a lawyer or da da da da, Or.

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Speaker 6: I had like twenty seven majors in college. I was

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Speaker 6: physics and philosophy, with a minor in theater. It turns

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Speaker 6: out I liked star trek but not differential calculus. And

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Speaker 6: when you can't stay awaken in pistemology, it's probably not

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Speaker 6: the thing to do when there are only four people

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Speaker 6: in the classroom. I like acting, but not enough to

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Speaker 6: make it my life's work, and so I flitted through

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Speaker 6: a bunch of other things. But What was the through

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Speaker 6: line for me was activism. The pivotal moment for me

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Speaker 6: when I realized that it wasn't just an inherited property

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Speaker 6: from my parents, It was part of my DNA. When

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Speaker 6: the Rodney King decision came down in nineteen ninety two,

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Speaker 6: I was a freshman at Spelman. I organized students to protest.

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Speaker 6: They locked down our campus. I was at the AUC

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Speaker 6: and if you if you know Atlanta, they locked down

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Speaker 6: I twenty so you could not get off of the

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Speaker 6: interstate and come to the University center. So it Spellman, Moorhouse,

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Speaker 6: Clark Atlanta, Morris Brown, ITC and our School of Medicine.

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Speaker 6: And then they tear gassed us. They tear gas the

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Speaker 6: entire area. And this was under a black mayor.

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Speaker 5: And this is Spelman and Mors.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 6: But the schools were juxtaposed next to some of the

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Speaker 6: oldest housing developments in the nation. And so the issue

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Speaker 6: was we weren't, you know, elite students and poor communities.

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Speaker 6: We were all black, and we were all basically accused

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Speaker 6: of the same anger. And the problem was the protests

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Speaker 6: were real because the pain was real. And so I

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Speaker 6: helped organize students actually got into an argument with then

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Speaker 6: Mayor Maynard Jackson. He won the argument, but because he

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Speaker 6: couldn't argue and I was like, my cleanest tea shirts

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Speaker 6: were my nicest jeans.

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Speaker 3: But he still won.

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Speaker 6: But he later hired me to work in the newly

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Speaker 6: created Office of Youth Services.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask something, because you know, I did

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Speaker 1: not go to college, like immediately got a record deal

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Speaker 1: and had a career. Always wanted to know when we

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Speaker 1: protest on a college campus, like what's the goal, especially

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Speaker 1: when like the issue is three thousand miles away in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Like how does that trickle to?

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Speaker 6: So two things. One, what Rodney Kings with the verdict

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Speaker 6: was evocative of was the lack of justice from police,

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Speaker 6: and that was happening in Atlanta, that was happening in Georgia.

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Speaker 6: And part of it was where poverty exists, where racism exists,

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Speaker 6: you were going to find police misconduct. And there was

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Speaker 6: also the larger issue of simply the evidence of our

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Speaker 6: eyes being denied. Those things. Well, Rodney King was emblematic

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Speaker 6: of it was but he was only one example. He

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Speaker 6: was the first example that got caught on tape. But

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Speaker 6: people had those experiences everywhere, and that's why it was

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Speaker 6: so inflammatory the protests I organized. We started this moment wetched.

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Speaker 6: We marched from the AUC all the way to City Hall.

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Speaker 6: So to your point, I didn't go to a college,

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Speaker 6: We're protesting at the college. Made a lot sense because

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Speaker 6: we all pretty much agreed the most effective protests leave

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Speaker 6: the safe spaces and go into the public spaces. So

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Speaker 6: we made sure that march went past the housing projects,

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Speaker 6: went past the liquor stores, all the way down to

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Speaker 6: city Hall. That's how I ended up getting into the

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Speaker 6: tet a.

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Speaker 3: Tet with the mayor.

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Speaker 6: But to your point, there are some campuses where protest

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Speaker 6: on campus is it's effective because if you're at Harvard,

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Speaker 6: you're talking about billions of dollars in economic influence. If

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Speaker 6: you're an AEC the numeric the monetary effect is the smaller,

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Speaker 6: but the salutary effect is bigger because you have people

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Speaker 6: who may have been conditioned to think that they were

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Speaker 6: the exceptions to the rule, who have to remind themselves

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Speaker 6: that they are part of the same fabric that people

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Speaker 6: don't ask you, They don't investigate did you go to Spelman,

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Speaker 6: Why are you in the AUC, Why are you in

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Speaker 6: Southwest Atlanta? They just see someone who looks like something

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Speaker 6: they've been taught to be afraid of or taught to disregard.

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Speaker 6: And this is true for a lot of different communities

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Speaker 6: of color. It's true based on your economic situation and

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Speaker 6: where protests comes in as protest moves beyond the space

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Speaker 6: that you inhabit, and it tells the rest of the

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Speaker 6: world you've got to pay attention.

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Speaker 2: It's a bullhorn exactly.

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Speaker 1: So do you consider that moment you're or first footprint

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Speaker 1: in political action.

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Speaker 6: It was my parents will tell you, because my mom

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Speaker 6: and dad were in grad school here uh in Georgia.

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Speaker 6: They hadn't moved back to Mississippi at and I gave

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Speaker 6: out my phone number to tell people, you know, during

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Speaker 6: the protest, I'm like, if you're if you want to

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Speaker 6: join us. I didn't think through the fact that I

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Speaker 6: was giving my parents home number out, yah know. And

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Speaker 6: and they pointed that out to me later on as

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Speaker 6: the phone started to ring. But for me, it was

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Speaker 6: it was it was both in a moment of empowerment

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Speaker 6: but a moment of ownership that I I wanted to

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Speaker 6: be a voice for people who didn't know they deserve

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Speaker 6: to be in that march that didn't know that they

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Speaker 6: deserve to have better and who'd been lulled into thinking

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Speaker 6: that because you had leadership that looked like you, that

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Speaker 6: they shared all of the same issues that you shared.

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Speaker 6: And that's just never true. That that notion of monolithic

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Speaker 6: power is just not real. And so even within space,

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Speaker 6: I mean, Mayor Jax is extraordinary mayor. But in this issue,

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Speaker 6: when it came to youth poverty, he had not done

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Speaker 6: what I thought needed to be done. So my job

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Speaker 6: was to push that. And so for me it was

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Speaker 6: it was a moment of reckoning, Like did I actually

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Speaker 6: believe the things I was saying when I was safely

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Speaker 6: on campus? And turns out yes, I did.

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Speaker 1: So at the time, were you like student body president

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Speaker 1: or like I don't know what the president's system is

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Speaker 1: for college now, like I used to be president in

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Speaker 1: my ninth grade class, But.

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Speaker 6: I mean, like for you, so I wasn't then I

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Speaker 6: eventually did. I was at that point. I was just

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Speaker 6: an annoying freshman in college who was.

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Speaker 2: And you were a freshman.

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Speaker 1: I was my freshman year, So how did you, like,

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Speaker 1: isn't it hard for a freshman to get the respect

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Speaker 1: in the I was relentless and were people like afraid

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Speaker 1: of being suspended or kicked off campus or.

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Speaker 6: Yes, so one thing that happened part of I kind

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Speaker 6: of short shortcuted the story, but it was a few

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Speaker 6: phases when they were tear gassing the campus. This is

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Speaker 6: before social media, this is before cell phones, and this

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Speaker 6: is when you only had the television stations, the broadcastations.

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Speaker 6: So I organized students in my dorm to call all

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Speaker 6: the broadcast stations. They were lying saying that we were

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Speaker 6: running amok. I'm like, no, we are angry and protesting

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Speaker 6: both on the campus and out in the community, but

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Speaker 6: this isn't a riot, and they were miscommunicating what was happening.

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Speaker 6: So I had a bunch of friends call all the

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Speaker 6: stations and flood the stations, and the stations got wise

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Speaker 6: to us and said, well, who's calling, and so I said,

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Speaker 6: just tell them you're me. So you had like seventy

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Speaker 6: five Stacy Abrams is calling and that amplified my voice. Again,

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Speaker 6: didn't think through the consequences when they sent the police

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Speaker 6: to come and get me to take me to this event.

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Speaker 6: I wasn't being arrested, but I was invited to the

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Speaker 6: simulcast because all of the television stations in Atlanta came

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Speaker 6: together because this was a crisis, and so the mayor

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Speaker 6: was there and I was invited as one of the

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Speaker 6: students to be there, and so that sort of that

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Speaker 6: lifted my platform a bit more than I expected.

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Speaker 7: I ask.

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Speaker 4: I'm so curious, just on as a student as we're

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Speaker 4: in this Spellman moment, I'm curious, did you what we

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Speaker 4: your full experience was in college? Was it all work

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Speaker 4: and no play and activism or but at a pivotal

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Speaker 4: time in Atlanta period like olymp post Olympics maybe, So

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Speaker 4: I was right before the Olympics, right before Okay, so

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Speaker 4: right before the Olympics. So can you talk about like

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Speaker 4: what kind of student you were in that way, like

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Speaker 4: did you have fun.

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Speaker 6: Social Because I was a nerd and I'm an introvert,

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Speaker 6: so I heard this.

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Speaker 3: That's why I was surprised.

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Speaker 4: Firstman year, you went all out and started.

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Speaker 2: Well I was that was happy left supreme right, A

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Speaker 2: bunch of nerds and introvis. You mentioned star treks.

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Speaker 6: So that was the well next generation was out. So

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Speaker 6: your peak card girl, the card je Waite, Look, I

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Speaker 6: do the whole universe, so.

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Speaker 5: Turn out card is everything like us Luke who Jean Luca.

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Speaker 1: Every day I find this person, I've known him for

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Speaker 1: thirty plus years.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, even though she's still nineteen. That's good.

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Speaker 6: So I this is probably the best example. When I

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Speaker 6: became student by the president, part of your job is

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Speaker 6: to make sure that they're social at I got two

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Speaker 6: of my best friends. I created a position called the

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Speaker 6: Social Activity Coordinator so I wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: Have to go to parties.

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Speaker 5: So you wouldn't have to go.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So they would set up the parties. They would

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Speaker 6: I would come at the beginning to say hi, and

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Speaker 6: I would come at the end to make sure nobody

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Speaker 6: stole anything. Otherwise I was back in my dorms.

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Speaker 2: You would not go to.

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Speaker 4: Everybody was trying to get to go out, and you

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Speaker 4: were like, I have meaningful to do.

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Speaker 6: I never went on spring break? What well, why would

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Speaker 6: you pay money to go sit in somebody else's hotel.

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Speaker 6: I mean, like I was, I had a dorm, I

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Speaker 6: could read anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Like okay, So you said something, and I think you know.

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Speaker 1: I try to pull as much personal inspiration information from

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Speaker 1: our guests that come on this show. But I'll ask

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Speaker 1: you yes, sir, because I feel like the one small

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Speaker 1: task that I'm holding myself back from actually crossing the

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Speaker 1: line to where you are, despite the fact that I'm

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Speaker 1: hosting my own podcast and do other things. How do

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Speaker 1: you get over the fear of speaking, because I've seen

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Speaker 1: you speak before, and you know, for an introvert, you

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Speaker 1: project well, I guess it's the acting help.

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Speaker 6: But so, yeah, I grew up in the church, so

404
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 6: we had to do you know, easter programs, manspation, proclamature programs.

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Speaker 6: Never liked any of it. I'm not afraid of you

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Speaker 6: had to read all of the stuff right, you name it,

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Speaker 6: we did it. My fear isn't public speaking. I'm reticent

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Speaker 6: about being around lots of people. So when I was

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Speaker 6: in high school, I joined the debate team. I had

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Speaker 6: a psychosomatic case of laryngitis because it occurred to me

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Speaker 6: that I couldn't be I wouldn't be debating by myself,

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Speaker 6: that other people would see me do it. And suddenly

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Speaker 6: my voice didn't work. And went to see the.

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Speaker 2: Nurse and she's like, there's nothing wrong with you.

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Speaker 6: And that's when I also learned what psychosomatic because what

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Speaker 6: psychomedia look like.

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Speaker 1: Artist do that, and that's often an issue on the

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Speaker 1: show like when people self sabotage their progress or whatever.

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Speaker 2: The Great Kathleen.

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Speaker 1: Hannah and I had a one on one conversation last year.

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Speaker 1: She is the pioneer of the Riot Girl movement and

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Speaker 1: a true feminist. Her memoir was Why We Spoke, and

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Speaker 1: you can hear how she wanted her story to redirect

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Speaker 1: some curse. Review of her impact and legacy and the

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Speaker 1: whole interview is like this clip, but it still captures

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Speaker 1: Kathleen's spirit. She's a powerful leader to women everywhere. But

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Speaker 1: as I told her in this particular conversation, her work

428
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Speaker 1: and the punk scene helped inspire the roots to build

429
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Speaker 1: a community in Philly at my house, which was called

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Speaker 1: the Black Lil. What is the first step in realizing

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Speaker 1: that you're going to overspill and share with us your

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Speaker 1: life and how does that affect the people that you

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Speaker 1: write about.

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Speaker 8: I never thought about it. I just sat down and wrote.

435
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Speaker 8: I really just sat down and wrote and wrote and wrote.

436
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Speaker 9: It was really for me.

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Speaker 8: I didn't think about an audience at all, Like when

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Speaker 8: I first started writing, which was like, you know, years ago,

439
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Speaker 8: and I knew it was a book, Like I wrote

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Speaker 8: the introduction like ten years ago and then ended up

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Speaker 8: I changed it all, of course, but I was just

442
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 8: sort of writing it a little bit and I didn't

443
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 8: have a publisher or whatever. And then finally I was like,

444
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 8: I just need to do this to get to the

445
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 8: next stage of my life, you know how like there's

446
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 8: different like things that you've made that you're known by,

447
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 8: Like you know, people walk up to you on the

448
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 8: street and they're like, you know, this is the thing,

449
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 8: and it's annoying because you're like, I don't want to

450
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 8: talk about that. Actually, my real love is directing, or

451
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 8: my real love is you know what I mean. It's

452
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 8: like you get known as you know, if you're in

453
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 8: a commercial and someone's like you were in that VW

454
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 8: commercial for the rest of your life. And it's like

455
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 8: I was sort of like really trapped in this like riot.

456
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 10: Girl thing and like the like you wrote this exteen

457
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 10: spirit line or you know, other like weird mini scandals

458
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 10: I was involved in, and I was like, you know,

459
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 10: I just kind of want to like not talk about

460
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 10: that anymore.

461
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 8: And part of that is me getting over stuff that

462
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 8: I never dealt with. And so I really kind of

463
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 8: wrote it just to get it all out on the page,

464
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 8: and I wasn't I knew that I got to edit

465
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 8: it later. You know, I'm an adult. I've done like

466
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 8: a lot of projects, so like, I know, I'm not

467
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 8: writing this and everybody's going to see it, and having

468
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 8: the same confidence that I had with it that I

469
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 8: have with my journal, where it's like, no one's going

470
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 8: to read this, so I can write whatever I want,

471
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 8: and I had fun with it. I was like I

472
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 8: would think of a title like Benjamin Franklin's Glasses, and

473
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 8: then you know, you have like catchphrases in your life

474
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 8: that you use to talk to your friends with, where

475
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 8: like for me, like the smells like teen Spirit story,

476
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 8: which is like I wrote Kurt smells eighteen Spirit on

477
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 8: his wall and then he used as a song like

478
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 8: people have asked me about that a lot, right, and

479
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 8: so it's I started calling it the you know smells

480
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 8: like Benjamin Franklin's Glasses, and I would be like, it's

481
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 8: like I found Benjamin Franklin's glasses in the trash, and

482
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 8: Everybody's like, ooh, there's the girl who found Benjamin Franklin's

483
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 8: you know, glasses in the trash. And I was like,

484
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 8: I'm actually like a feminist artist who's been working for

485
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 8: thirty five years and like, I have a lot of

486
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 8: projects i'd love to talk to you about, but they're like,

487
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 8: but tell me about Benjamin Frank. So I didn't specifically

488
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 8: actually write that story like to you know, get people

489
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 8: off my back or whatever. But I did write everything,

490
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 8: like everything, and then I edited it later and that's

491
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 8: when I thought about it and I changed. I did

492
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 8: change names. I changed almost everybody's names unless they were

493
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 8: in a positive light.

494
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 2: And so they were okay, okay.

495
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 8: And there were people there's a particular person who who

496
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 8: is really messed up in the book and basically commits

497
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 8: crime and against me. And I called that person and said,

498
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 8: I'm going to tell this story and you need to

499
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 8: get a therapist and be prepared. I changed your name,

500
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 8: but some of our friends are going to know its you,

501
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 8: So I want you to prepare yourself. And I don't

502
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 8: want aybody kill themselves, you know what I mean.

503
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: What was his reaction?

504
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 8: You know, I wish I wouldn't have called. That's all

505
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 8: I can say. I mean, he was like, he's like,

506
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 8: you know, it's your story and you can tell it.

507
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 8: I can't stop you. But it was like a big

508
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 8: pity party of things in his life that have gone wrong,

509
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 8: and that you know, he had a whole new story

510
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 8: for why the bad incident happened. I was like, I

511
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 8: can't rewrite it. I already wrote it. So the story

512
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 8: answer is I didn't think about it. I got my

513
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 8: butt in the chair and I worked, and then I

514
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 8: would have these long periods of time where I just

515
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 8: worked and worked and worked and work, and then I

516
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 8: would have periods of time where I had a nervous

517
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 8: breakdown and went to crisis counseling, like for three days

518
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 8: a week, and then I would get back to work.

519
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: That's what I was going to ask you, because the

520
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: thing is is that unlike my movement, you know, the

521
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: Neo Soul movement, both of our movements, I would say,

522
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: start with the the quote the idea of I'm certain

523
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: there was an actual Seattle movement or Northwest movement, but I,

524
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much even I knew that we were

525
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: responding to the idea of what we thought the Seattle

526
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: movement was things move on and things subside and things

527
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: are in your rear view mirror. How did it feel

528
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: to have to unpack that period in your life? Because like,

529
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: literally chapter after chapter. It's one thing to keep a

530
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: band together, but it's a whole other thing where you

531
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: also have to keep yourself together and protect your sanity,

532
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: but also like organize a movement. And I'll say the

533
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: main difference between you and I, luckily because of the

534
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: development of the Internet. For me at least ninety eight

535
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: ninety nine, you know, I thought it was all unique,

536
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: like the only person in music who allows this fan

537
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: base to curse him out or criticize him or say

538
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: whatever the fuck they want to.

539
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: But that's contained in like this world on the Internet.

540
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: Whereas because you're eight years before you know, you're dealing

541
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: with newsletters and actual people coming You've essentially a pre

542
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: social media pioneer, although it wasn't invented yet because you

543
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: came out so damn early. But all the things that happened,

544
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: like the idea of people spewing out their opinions mid show,

545
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: you know, all all the toxic energy you had to have.

546
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: You're juggling like four or five things at once, and

547
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: you're learning lessons. You're learning lessons about feminism, you're learning

548
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: lessons about yourself, you're learning lessons about your health. Like

549
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: all these things but to really put yourself in that

550
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: position to go back and revisit how taxing was that

551
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: on you today, to revisit those periods.

552
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 8: The way I would say when I would get home

553
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 8: from work was I'd be like I just created my

554
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 8: face with the cheese grater for eight hours. That's what

555
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 8: it felt like. If I really felt well, I was

556
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 8: like my face was blank, I was dead behind the eyes,

557
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 8: like I was going in and out of being present.

558
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 8: Like it was awful. Awful, but so is crisis counseling,

559
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 8: I mean, And it was basically like I was. I

560
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 8: saved myself a lot of therapy because I actually sat

561
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 8: there and wrote down stuff I'd never even admitted to myself,

562
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 8: and a lot of it didn't There's three hundred extra pages.

563
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 8: It didn't end up in the book because it originally

564
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 8: was like Ryacral Hobbit and they were six center pages long.

565
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 8: You might get it in a different form, but yeah,

566
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 8: a lot a lot of the stories I cut out

567
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 8: were because they were more visual, like it was like

568
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 8: that you had to be there, kind of stories where

569
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 8: it's like, you know, we're on acid and we're like

570
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 8: running towards the sky in the park looks like he's juggling.

571
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 8: We're like, it's a clown. And then we get close

572
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 8: to him and we're like, oh shit, he has not

573
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 8: a ninja. It's an ninja turn around, like you know

574
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 8: what I mean, Like it doesn't really work in a book. Yeah,

575
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 8: it was horrible, That's all I can say. It was

576
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 8: absolutely awful because it was like excavating all of the

577
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 8: stuff that you know, I had also suppressed and pushed

578
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 8: down to keep going to the next project. And that

579
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 8: was part of the reason why I worked so much,

580
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,719
Speaker 8: you know what I mean. And I didn't turn out

581
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 8: like a kazilion albums, but I was constantly doing projects.

582
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 8: Even when I went through a long period while I

583
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 8: was pretty sick, I was still like, I wrote a

584
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 8: pilot for a TV show, and you know, I could

585
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 8: tell you twenty other things that I did while I

586
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 8: was still ill, because I just had even if it

587
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 8: was from bed, if I had one good day, I

588
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 8: had to use it. And part of that is just

589
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 8: like I grew up as a kid and I felt

590
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 8: like I was really a zombie, Like I had to

591
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 8: turn myself off to live in my household. And so

592
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 8: when I kind of came to when I moved out

593
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 8: when I was seventeen, I was like living with vengeance.

594
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 8: Like I was like, I have to pack as much

595
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 8: stuff into this one life as possible. And also all

596
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 8: the people you know that I've lost along the way

597
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 8: to like drugs, suicide aids, you know, it's hard not

598
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 8: to feel like you're living for them, Like you know,

599
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 8: every day you have a part of their character with

600
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 8: you that comes out and you're like, I want to

601
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 8: let that part of this person shying today, you know, Like,

602
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 8: but then that can become this weird like toxically positive

603
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 8: bullshit that then you have to contend with that. So

604
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 8: I just try to be in the present as much

605
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 8: as humanly possible, and writing the book, the whole point

606
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 8: of it was to get me into the present. Was

607
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 8: to be like, I'm going to grapple with this thirty

608
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 8: five years or even you know, my whole life. I'm

609
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 8: going to grapple with that, and then I'm going to

610
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 8: be like I did that, and now here I am.

611
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 8: And sure I still like have bad memories of stuff

612
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 8: or like whatever. But the thing that was really kind

613
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 8: of miraculous was I just realized how much I lead

614
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 8: with the negative you know what I mean, Like a

615
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 8: lot it was so easy. It wasn't easy, but it

616
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 8: was like I went straight for the juggler. Like I

617
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 8: was like, I went to all the worst moments in

618
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 8: my life really quick. And part of it was because

619
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 8: I needed to. I really needed to do that. But

620
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 8: then I was like, whoa, no one's going to read this.

621
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 8: This is going to make people just throw up, Like

622
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 8: I got to put some joy in here. And then

623
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 8: I just started being like they started popping out like

624
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 8: you know, Jack in the Box style, like just like joy,

625
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 8: Joy Joy, And I was like, oh yeah, that guy

626
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 8: in Minneapolis who like said I'll record your band in

627
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 8: my garage. I love what you're doing and I and

628
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 8: that made me feel like accepted in the punk scene,

629
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 8: you know what I mean. Like and it was just

630
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 8: a tiny gesture from this one person that probably they

631
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 8: didn't even I don't think that guy even read the

632
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 8: book or knows or remembers. But this guy to Max

633
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 8: said I'll record you and you know, record us and

634
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 8: my first touring band, Vivachnevl And it meant the world

635
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 8: to me, you know, remembering the first time that I

636
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 8: heard my vocals sounding good in headphones like literally, as

637
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 8: I was writing it, I was remembering it for the

638
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 8: first time, and I was sitting in that garage listening

639
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 8: to my voice with reaverb on it and going, oh,

640
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 8: my god, this is what I want to do forever.

641
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: Right.

642
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 8: What a gift that I had to go through. I

643
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 8: had to kind of, like, you know, dig myself out

644
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 8: with a shovel. I kept seeing in my head when

645
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 8: I was writing, like a kind of a newly dug grave,

646
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 8: like the soil and stuff, and I felt like my

647
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 8: hand was just sticking out and I had to reach it,

648
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 8: pull my hand and get me out of the grave.

649
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 8: And once I dug myself out, I was like, Oh,

650
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 8: look at all this awesome stuff that happened that maybe

651
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 8: you didn't fully appreciate in the moment, and I'm able

652
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 8: to appreciate it now, and in a lot of cases

653
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 8: I did. I had a great time, like I've had

654
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 8: an awesome life.

655
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: And last week's Women's Month celebration episode, you heard from

656
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: Faith and Newman and Lisa Cortez, who were some of

657
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: the first women at Depth Jam Records. We had another

658
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: prominent figure from the nineteen eighties New York hip hop

659
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: scene on the show. Heather Hunter maybe first start of

660
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: her work in the adult industry, but she was also

661
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: a staff member at the Latin Quarter and a close

662
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: friend to many hip hop stars at the time. And

663
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: I cherished this interview because Heather is still a great

664
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: storyteller and a great friend, and because she also speaks

665
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: so free. Heather touches on her transition from New York

666
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: to hip hop to la in the adult industry, and

667
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: there are meaningful reflections about experience as a woman and

668
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: the sexism she faced in both of us.

669
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 7: As when I was growing up in the club. Even

670
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 7: though this genres even like saw all of them can

671
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 7: even definitely can relate to this. We were be girls,

672
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 7: do you know what I mean? So it seems like

673
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 7: the bee girl had that error versus now we had

674
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 7: so much respect. They treated us like they gave us respect.

675
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 7: The men in hip hop it was like they put

676
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 7: you on a pedestal versus now it's not like that,

677
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 7: you know. And my whole thing is like bringing something back.

678
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 7: I really wish I could bring back the big girl essence,

679
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 7: you know, and make men and hip hop recognized that

680
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 7: versus in the eighty and nineties, how they treated girls

681
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 7: I mean, it's it's so different.

682
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: I wish they bring back hip hop.

683
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 5: Period.

684
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 7: Yes, it's bad because you know, my god, you know,

685
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 7: I'm so happy I was a big girl.

686
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: So when you graduated New York or did you what

687
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: did you feel like that you were outgrowing New York?

688
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 2: Like what called you to Los Angeles?

689
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 5: Poor?

690
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 9: Don't avoid it, just get it, don't avoid it.

691
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: Just get it. Just don't you wait? What are you

692
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: talking about?

693
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 4: I was like, just get out the Latin Court and

694
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 4: go into them because that's where she went.

695
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 5: That's where she went. And then when I got back,

696
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 5: it was when I get back then it was a tunnel.

697
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: You know things. Yeah, it went from that was my era.

698
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 7: It went from Irving Plaza to tunnel and things were changing.

699
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 7: Now you know that was my era too, because.

700
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 5: I did a lot. I was a promoter a lot

701
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 5: for tunnel, didn't you do?

702
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: So let's tackle that issue.

703
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: As all right, So you go to Los Angeles, like,

704
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: how did you How do you get into the industry?

705
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: How does one get into the industry, especially when the

706
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: time period that you were in the industry.

707
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: You know, I'm certain that porn is.

708
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: Probably one of the most racist cultures of all time,

709
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: Like the titles I would see it was like again

710
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: like fried Chicken and fucking all that.

711
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 2: All the stuff in my no like nah I got

712
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 2: my uncle had.

713
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: Like Ray Victory and barbecue f three Like it was, Yeah,

714
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: So how do you navigate your way to the status

715
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: that you became because as far as I'm concerned, like

716
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: you were, at least from my point of view, you

717
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: kind of were equal billing of the white actresses of

718
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: the of the time right on coverage. Ye, you weren't

719
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: doing like super derogatory and ship.

720
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 5: It was because I had a really good manager. He

721
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 5: had a magical idea when we kicked me off.

722
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 2: The magical is like, let's treat you with dignity.

723
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, let's not tell them what your colored skin is.

724
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 7: We're gonna put your first movie out and it's gonna

725
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 7: be Heather. And it was like we're going to ignore

726
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 7: that you're no, no, no, I'm saying as in, when

727
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 7: you're doing promo, before you're doing promo to put out

728
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 7: for adult like promo goes out. So the whole team

729
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 7: was like throwing out Heather and then my face was

730
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 7: so shown and then that's when I started standing up for.

731
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 2: Everything, But what what's promo in the adult world back then?

732
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 7: Promo adult world was like okay AVN when you had

733
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 7: the ABN's back then, so they would give flyers, you

734
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 7: would promote things.

735
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 5: It was mostly like street teaming stuff, you know.

736
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 7: And then you know, the Internet was only created for

737
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 7: porn back then, so if you were on the Internet

738
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 7: at that time, you knew exactly what was going on,

739
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 7: at least with in the adult world.

740
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 4: You know.

741
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 7: And then I stood up for every right From there on,

742
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 7: I refused to be treated. I want to be treated

743
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 7: no matter what color my skin is. So I really

744
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 7: stood up. I broke through a lot of color barriers.

745
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 7: I stayed to my convictions. And it's really about knowing

746
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 7: your worth and sticking to it.

747
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 11: You know, how oldre you When you did your first

748
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 11: movie eighteen eight.

749
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 5: I did it on my birthday?

750
00:38:59,000 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 2: Wow?

751
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 5: What was October first?

752
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 2: Okay, what was the first? What was that experience? Like

753
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: just your first time on camera?

754
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 5: Oh, it's crazy.

755
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 7: It was really crazy because I realized how wild the

756
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 7: people were in the business, you know what I mean,

757
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 7: And I was like, wow, this is crazy. It seemed

758
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 7: like I danced through it, like I was kind of

759
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 7: like an auto out of body experience, you know, do

760
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 7: you know what to expect?

761
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 5: I had no clue.

762
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 7: And then when this girl pulled out this back then,

763
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 7: it was really no dial though she put out one

764
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 7: of these big massages.

765
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 5: She was vibe you know massage. Yes, yes, Spencers.

766
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 7: God, that was actually the first time I actually was

767
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 7: with on camera first time, the very first time.

768
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 2: So the first time was with the girl. It wasn't

769
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 2: with the guy.

770
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 7: It was it was a guy, but it was my

771
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 7: first time actually having a girl. Oh okay, I mean

772
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 7: I was attracted to girls, but it was my first

773
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 7: time really going all the way in.

774
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: So I mean, how are you not self conscious about it? Like,

775
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that some part of porn is scientific,

776
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: as in, okay, stop cut, we need this angle right here,

777
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: and and you know there's no manual to guide you

778
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: through that or any training. So how do you you

779
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: just you got to catch on quick and man.

780
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, honestly, I say, you know, that's why the

781
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 7: difference between now, how everybody's really over top with their

782
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 7: sexuality and not really understanding it. When in the porn

783
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 7: business you really have to be a professional. You have

784
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 7: to have that professional state of mind, because if you

785
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 7: don't and you just dip in, you can lose it

786
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 7: along the way, you know what I mean.

787
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 5: So oh yeah, I could lose it a long way.

788
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 5: So you have to already be natural freak. I think

789
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 5: it has to be already in you have no inhibitions,

790
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 5: you know, comfortable with sexuality. But did you know how

791
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 5: much of a freak you were? Like oh yeah, age, yeah, yeah,

792
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 5: because you still.

793
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 4: Have to become more of a freak, you know what

794
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 4: I mean, Like eighteen freak Heather is different than ten

795
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 4: years later.

796
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 7: I'm more freakier now, but I'm a domestic freak now.

797
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 7: I got a man, you know, I'm home, you know,

798
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 7: you know, but it's a different it's different dynamic now.

799
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 7: But I think the older you get, you get more freakier,

800
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 7: you know.

801
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm looking at you to leave this conversation.

802
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 11: But what is the difference between sex on camera and

803
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 11: or rather, how do you differentiate between sex on camera

804
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,439
Speaker 11: and like you say, like domestic sex or sensitizing?

805
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, like how do you how do you how do

806
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 2: you have?

807
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 11: Like you is it like you have a scene with

808
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 11: somebody and it's like, oh, great job and let's hook

809
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 11: up later or is.

810
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: It just a line?

811
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 5: It's like that was that and now we're well that's

812
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 5: the thing.

813
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 7: When I was in porn, I only dated porn starts,

814
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 7: male porn starts. I wouldn't date somebody out I call

815
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 7: y'all civilians.

816
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:11,240
Speaker 5: I wouldn't.

817
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, I wouldn't do it because honestly, I would like,

818
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 7: why you want to date me? I'm doing porn, you know,

819
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 7: because I wouldn't want to date me, you know. So

820
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 7: I had this thing, now date male porn starts. So yeah,

821
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 7: I got to pick all my men because I worked

822
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 7: for Vivid, so it was yeah, we would go from

823
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 7: there and then we would have awkward sex in front

824
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 7: of the camera and everybody telling you to do something.

825
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 5: It's just like you can't even enjoy it.

826
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 7: So you would go back into the bathroom after your

827
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 7: scene was done, and then y'all could actually have and

828
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 7: get it in if y'all were together, if.

829
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 5: You felt like it.

830
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: So it is acting. How much of that is acting? Oh?

831
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 5: It's acting. It's hard.

832
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 9: How can you act?

833
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 5: Your body has to respond because.

834
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 7: It's it's like, okay, perfect example, I was watching a

835
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 7: porn I just had this discussion with somebody was just

836
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 7: watching porn. And like I say, if I meet a

837
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 7: guy when I was single, if I met a guy

838
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 7: and he's like wants to pound pound, he's doing everything

839
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 7: like a porno movie, and no, it's like that in't good,

840
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 7: you know, No, no, no it's not good because like

841
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 7: when you're watching the porn, even when we're having sex

842
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 7: on camera, we got to speed up so it looks

843
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 7: exciting for the viewer.

844
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 12: We have to.

845
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 7: We have to do everything to make it look so exciting.

846
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 7: And then when we're about exciting and into it, they like, cut, okay,

847
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 7: we gotta do this, turn the angle, go this way,

848
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 7: all right, heather, da da you gotta you know, So

849
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 7: we got a.

850
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: Whole new generation that watches porn and repeats it and yeah.

851
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 2: And all they ain't need to go down. I see. Yeah,

852
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 2: I know you said so disappointed.

853
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 5: Because they professional entertainers. That's what we're doing.

854
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: That's a problem.

855
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 5: Men watch porn and think sometimes no, it's not that

856
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 5: it is it.

857
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 1: I would imagine that for the male performer, it's almost

858
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: there's a bigger pressure to instantly perform because I mean,

859
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: women can fake orgasms like nobody's.

860
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 5: Visit but now they got viagra. Like in my error,

861
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 5: it was hard, you know.

862
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: Now the guys are just yeah, I'm just saying like

863
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: just like on que, like okay, let's go hurry up.

864
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, Ray Victory, perfect sample. He could not come unless

865
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 5: you had Red High heels on.

866
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 2: Shut.

867
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was banging so much. He could not come.

868
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 5: He did not care who you were.

869
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 7: I remember I had a scene with them and I

870
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 7: had my little you know, because I was so very girl.

871
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 7: Next story, I had my little skippies on.

872
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 2: He was like, that ain't gonna get it.

873
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 5: They ain't gonna do it. That's not going to do it.

874
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 5: They had to go get me. Yeah, Red High Hill.

875
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I'm kind of like the the

876
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 2: the the yoga era of porn and this whole like

877
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: what was the yoga era? The yoga era? I mean,

878
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 2: I mean they have different things. They have like a lot.

879
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: It's always the same backup. Like it's like it's either

880
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 2: the pizza delivery scene.

881
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 5: Oh now there's yoga class or whatever.

882
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 2: In my head, yes, yes, I don't know. The sports

883
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: gym look is not oh it's not hot. It's it's

884
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 2: not personally sexy to me.

885
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 4: Okay, but you know it's love, isn't just to get

886
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 4: get you out of your your hole. You're going into

887
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 4: porn one of the only one of the only industries

888
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 4: where the men is inequality between the men and the

889
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 4: women in pay where the men get paid less or is.

890
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 7: That yeah, the men get paid less. Certain guys, if

891
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 7: you're a star guy, you could probably make more money

892
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 7: than the girls. But if you're engay porn, they make

893
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 7: more money. They make money just like the women. Yeah,

894
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 7: so it's you know, I have a lot of colleagues

895
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 7: that are in the business that I've been out of

896
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,240
Speaker 7: the business for twenty eight years now. I've been retired,

897
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 7: so it's been a long time. I kind of keep

898
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 7: in touch with certain people because I certain people I

899
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 7: do like that's still in the business, or like I

900
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:24,959
Speaker 7: like Missy Stone.

901
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 5: I think she's a good person.

902
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 4: So mentoring a little bit, how do you mentor a

903
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 4: little bit?

904
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 5: My whole life is a mint essure every day right now?

905
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 7: You know, my every day is you know, it's interesting.

906
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 7: It comes to my my uh rings on my phone

907
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 7: every day, questions everything. So I think the business itself

908
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 7: and I still and I think people look at me

909
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 7: and I'm not anti porn. You know, a lot of

910
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 7: people think, wow, she's not porn. She feels My only

911
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 7: view about porn is that I just really wish that

912
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 7: they would practice safe sex.

913
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,959
Speaker 2: How scary was it that bothered I left?

914
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 7: Because I wasn't gonna I was wearing condoms anyway, as

915
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 7: soon as I came about, I was wearing condoms.

916
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 5: But after I do, I was telling I tell this

917
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 5: all the time.

918
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 7: When I did a movie in Hawaii for Vivid, and

919
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 7: I was doing a scene in a non erupting volcano.

920
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 7: It was down inside the volcano with Vince Vince somebody foyer,

921
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 7: and I'm like, why am I down here? Because after taxes,

922
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 7: it's not gonna be worth it, between my health taxes,

923
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 7: I can't do this no more, you know what I mean.

924
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 7: It's just just I think I started growing up, you know,

925
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 7: I started kind of waking up and realizing, you know,

926
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 7: there's more things that are important, which is your health

927
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 7: and making sure you stay on this earth. Because that

928
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 7: business is like going into war. You can come out

929
00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 7: a soldier unscathed, or you can come out and you

930
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 7: can really die, you know what I mean.

931
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: How thorough are they as far as making sure that

932
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: I had my papers and I'm tested, and.

933
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: Like its just someone always on the set. That's like okay,

934
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: let me and someone could lie about it. In Detroit.

935
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Brazil, Yeah it was Darren James was him.

936
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 1: It sounds familiar. I just know that you went to

937
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: Brazil and he got infected. I know that the industry

938
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: had to shut down for a month or so, Like

939
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: who who are the police dogs that enforces that? And

940
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: like in the age that it is now crazy, it's

941
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: almost like pull out the iPhone.

942
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 7: It's impossible to I mean you have your set companies

943
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 7: that still the other protocol you take get tested every

944
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 7: time you do a movie. Uh, these people still choose to.

945
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 7: They don't want you to wear condoms, but if you

946
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 7: want to, you have to really insist it. Sometimes you

947
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 7: won't get hired because you just want with condoms. So

948
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 7: I was a Vivid, So I was contract girls. I

949
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 7: was able to wear condoms.

950
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 5: I choose to.

951
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: Was that the highest honer back then, like to be

952
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 2: a Vivid.

953
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 5: Like now oh yeah, even to this days, to be

954
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 5: a Vivid girl.

955
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: There's still yeah.

956
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 5: I mean Kim and ray J took them to another level,

957
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 5: right and then it just went back.

958
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: That was vivid.

959
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 5: That was vivid, right right?

960
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: You said that in alacrity, like that was the empire built?

961
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was the Kardashian empire.

962
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, and me and I was probably a Vivid girl.

963
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 5: I always will.

964
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 7: It's something that I'm not gonna, uh forget up my

965
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 7: life because it was. They were a great company.

966
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 2: Were your peers as nice to you? And or that thing?

967
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: Or was it like was it caddy?

968
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 5: As far as know, all my the Vivid girls, I

969
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 5: was cool with one I punched in the face.

970
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: Who was that?

971
00:49:58,719 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 5: That's hilarious.

972
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 9: I just want to know what she did?

973
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 5: And one it was one I punched in the face.

974
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 2: Who do you have the punch?

975
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 5: Who was I'm not going to say, why did you

976
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 5: have the punch?

977
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 7: Huh?

978
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: What'd she do?

979
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 5: We were all on set waiting for her.

980
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 7: All the Vivid girls were on step waiting for I

981
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 7: was really sick, and she decides that she showed up

982
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 7: like four hours later. She went to go get her

983
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 7: hair bleached, and I was sick, and then she came

984
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 7: in just like I could do what evan, what.

985
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 5: You gonna do with it? Not just socked?

986
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 2: What you going to do? Did she still do the same.

987
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 7: My Keisha came out and that socked and now.

988
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 5: And then they sit they sent her home and I

989
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 5: finished the shoot. You know, her face was fucked up.

990
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 5: Her face was fucked No. After that she became like

991
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 5: she really wanted to be my best friend. From there on.

992
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 2: She didn't want to get posted.

993
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 7: It's funny, it's funny, but yeah, no, everybody's always respectful.

994
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 7: We were like the Brady Bunch.

995
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: For the environment you grew up in as a New

996
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: york and the time that you grew up and as

997
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: a New Yorker, you're very nurturing and not necessarily like

998
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: usually there's a hard exterior or a defensive exterior, and

999
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: most New Yorkers, I know, like I've yet to hear

1000
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: you say what happened or like any Brooklyn sort of

1001
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: terminology that lets me know that you're like you've been

1002
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: through shit and lived through shit.

1003
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 2: Deadass.

1004
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 7: But that's that's when I said Keisha come, that's my

1005
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 7: middle name. That's when Keisha comes out, you know what

1006
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 7: I mean?

1007
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, what is your real name?

1008
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 5: My name is Heather A Kisha Hunter.

1009
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: Okay, what made you go into your real name?

1010
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 5: My father he said, be proud of your name. You

1011
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 5: have a powerful name.

1012
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: So when he found out you were doing Paul, what

1013
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: was his reaction?

1014
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 5: He was like he was not shocked. It was more

1015
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 5: or less.

1016
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 7: My father always I could rob a bank, and my

1017
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 7: dad was like, she's the best bank robber.

1018
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 5: I could do no wrong in.

1019
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 7: My father's eyes, which is beautiful because that helped me,

1020
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 7: you know, you know along the way.

1021
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 2: You know your mother in the picture as well.

1022
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 5: My mom to my mom, still don't get it. She

1023
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 5: looked at me like, what did you do.

1024
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: So get it?

1025
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 5: You know, she's still don't get it.

1026
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 2: Do you have a large family? Do you have cousins?

1027
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 5: A huge family?

1028
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: Because you are the krim of? I mean, your name

1029
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: is is pop culture reference in many of hip hop's rhymes.

1030
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: Is it weird for your cousins or whatever?

1031
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: Like to like how.

1032
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 7: Well my sisters? I have to you know, it's interesting

1033
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 7: my younger sisters. All right, okay, yeah, my my younger sister.

1034
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 7: You know, I knew it was gonna be hard for

1035
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 7: them because they're both beautiful, they attractive. But what I

1036
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 7: loved about them they raise so strong, good head on

1037
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 7: their shoulders that no matter what comes away, or if

1038
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 7: somebody was like, oh you have to have the sister

1039
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 7: or something. They really handle it, you know, they never

1040
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 7: wanted to stray away from it, you know. And then

1041
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 7: my male cousins all of them use my name like,

1042
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 7: oh I could get pussy.

1043
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1044
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 5: So it's it's interesting.

1045
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 4: What about all those those mcs that you mentioned that

1046
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 4: you came up with La and Quarter, Like, at what

1047
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 4: point was everybody well receiving of your career or was

1048
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 4: anybody like, all right, let me come talk to you

1049
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 4: in a corner.

1050
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 7: You know, I have a few, like a few. Thank god.

1051
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 7: I've been the same all my life. My character, everything

1052
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 7: about me, I've never changed. So you have a few

1053
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 7: people that have thrown off. You know, definitely a few

1054
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 7: people have thrown off, But then they got used to

1055
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 7: it because I think it came with the respect that

1056
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 7: I already had within my community, my street, my friends.

1057
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 5: It was just already there.

1058
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 2: You know.

1059
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 5: I really respect people.

1060
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 2: And something just hit me right now, like literally, when

1061
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 2: she said that, something hit me. I'm sorry it sounded

1062
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 2: like it. Wait a minute.

1063
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this about me, Heather,

1064
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: but I am probably the third most knowledgeable person of

1065
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: anything soul trained porn.

1066
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 5: Oh my god, so trained.

1067
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: You danced on soul Train. Yeah, I believe that was you.

1068
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like, even then, I didn't put

1069
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: two and two together that that was you.

1070
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wasn't porn at that time.

1071
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 2: Wow, I was going to say you were on you

1072
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: were a soul trained dancer as Heather Hunter.

1073
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 7: I snuck in on the line. I used my mother's name,

1074
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 7: so I got online. They let me in as soon

1075
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 7: as I was on the floor, I guess because I

1076
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 7: dance like I'm New York.

1077
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 2: They were like, oh my god.

1078
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 4: And the.

1079
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 7: Asian girl with the long hair, yeah, she was retiring

1080
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 7: and I had long hair, so they immediately threw me

1081
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 7: up on the stage. So now I'm on stage, I'm like, oh,

1082
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 7: this is bad, this is great.

1083
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 5: My boy who had the cane?

1084
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 2: I forgot.

1085
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 5: It took like about five shows for I was going to.

1086
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 2: Say, you were only on for seven episodes? What happened?

1087
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,240
Speaker 7: Eric Cassim, who was the manager who was the production

1088
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 7: that he knew after he realized it's like, oh my god,

1089
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 7: sat the Hunter, you know, And even Louis pointed to

1090
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 7: the cane, Oh my god, it's the Hunter. So they

1091
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,959
Speaker 7: kind of hid me from from Don Cornelius for a while,

1092
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 7: and they threw me down. Eric kept throwing me down

1093
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 7: the soul train line. Okay, this gets you down the

1094
00:55:58,120 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 7: soul train line. Let's get you down. We're gonna get

1095
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 7: all these down. And then out of nowhere, someone contacted

1096
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 7: the Don Cornelius and say that you have a point

1097
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 7: started gyrating.

1098
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 5: Twirling down the line.

1099
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: I produced Pam Brown. It was Pam Brown. It probably

1100
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 2: she was a wow.

1101
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 7: Don was like, pulled me to the side. When I

1102
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 7: came back next time, he could not. This is how

1103
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 7: great this was. Because I would see Don at Stringfellows

1104
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 7: at the club in La So He's like, who is

1105
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 7: this girl? How'd she get into Stringfellas? I'm there with

1106
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 7: Marvin Gay Jr. All of them, and how is she

1107
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 7: in here?

1108
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: You know?

1109
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 5: And then it clicked and he found out who I was,

1110
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 5: and then he couldn't uh.

1111
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 2: I got.

1112
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 7: I love Don for this because he didn't want to

1113
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 7: tell me that I couldn't be on the show because

1114
00:56:58,120 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 7: he thought it was not right to do.

1115
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 5: You can't do that, you know what I mean? Yeah, right,

1116
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 5: So I gave him a break and I did it for.

1117
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 7: Him, you know, what I mean, really, yeah, I gave

1118
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 7: it to it and then I used to and then

1119
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 7: I said, said, I get it. You know, I'm just

1120
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 7: happy that I had experience to actually do this. And

1121
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 7: he was like, you could still hang and come down,

1122
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 7: and that exactly why I would do. I go and

1123
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 7: chill and I would hang out because I worked with

1124
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 7: Eric as well, and Don was just the coolest and

1125
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 7: then a by that time, you know, I'm friends, and

1126
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 7: I had to respect him because you know, he couldn't

1127
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 7: do it. You know, he couldn't say, hey, you can't

1128
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 7: be I only had to. So I was like, Okay,

1129
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 7: I'm gonna go. And then we did a pornal movie

1130
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 7: called Get On a Real Soul Trade.

1131
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 2: So back.

1132
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: When we interviewed lunch Back in twenty sixteen, Fante asked

1133
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: a really interesting question just about her sisterhood with Beyonce,

1134
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: based on a lyric Let's listen.

1135
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 11: Back one lyric that I always wanted to ask you about.

1136
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 2: Uh it was.

1137
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 11: It was a It was a Beyonce lyric where she says,

1138
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 11: and pardon me if I butchered, But you're saying.

1139
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: You know, my my sister taught me to speak my mind.

1140
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 2: If I'm okay, I got it all right. Where what

1141
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 2: explain that? Like, what influence did you play or do

1142
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: you do you think you played on her in that way?

1143
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 9: I mean, I don't know.

1144
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 13: I didn't know that that lyric was gonna come out,

1145
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 13: so I was just a sucp surprised as everybody else.

1146
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 13: But I think that our relationship is really cool because

1147
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 13: since we've been younger, we've both been very very protective

1148
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 13: of each other, and we both have pushed each other

1149
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 13: in the boundaries and our ways of communicating through just

1150
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 13: humans and women, but also as artists. And I think

1151
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 13: everyone who's around me, friends, family, my son, his friends.

1152
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 13: I'm a huge, you know, advocate for people getting to

1153
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 13: live in their honesty and their truth. I think we

1154
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 13: all deserve that. And even when I think back to

1155
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 13: my SNL performance, like, you know, just the feeling of.

1156
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 5: Being able to say.

1157
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 13: That everything that we do as humans is not going

1158
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 13: to be perfect and it's going to be flawed, and

1159
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 13: to be able to own those imperfections and speak up

1160
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 13: on them and not feel hindered or you know that

1161
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 13: I would like to think that maybe you know, just

1162
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 13: as family, that I have played a role and also

1163
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 13: constantly telling her that as well. You know, I tell

1164
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 13: all of my especially my black women friends, like we

1165
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 13: have to operate in the world so so heavily and

1166
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 13: carrying so much weight on a daily basis, the black

1167
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 13: woman in America, and I think that we're not told

1168
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 13: like it's okay to be flawed and to not be

1169
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 13: so strong all the time.

1170
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: And Okay, I know you're mad regular. I don't even

1171
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 2: know if I'm allowed to see that.

1172
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 8: I am.

1173
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 2: I'm pretty I'm.

1174
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 13: Like, you know, that's very funny. A lot of my

1175
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 13: friends describe me as that way, and I'm like, I

1176
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 13: don't know, what.

1177
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 2: Is it like that? Well, that's when I knew you

1178
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 2: would be cool. Okay, but you know, at the beginning,

1179
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: it's okay to an outsider.

1180
01:00:55,720 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: Because the perception of the dynasty it's so gleamingly blinding

1181
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: that again people don't But what I'm saying is that

1182
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: do you still feel I know that you fight for

1183
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: your private life, and you fight, well, not fight just.

1184
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 3: To you you protected, well, not even protected, just you're.

1185
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 2: Gonna do what you're gonna do.

1186
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: And sometimes you just want mad normal moments, and you

1187
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: guys indulged in mad regular normal hey.

1188
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 2: The you know, the the noles.

1189
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 11: Just like when I saw her, when I saw Miss

1190
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 11: Tina and mister Lawson posing in the parking lot of Costco,

1191
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 11: I was like, yo, data realist niggas out like.

1192
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: God, Like I'm like, yo, she real for that, and

1193
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: she was happy to get the savings.

1194
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 13: Like, oh my god, she's so serious about those mic downs.

1195
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: But I mean, do you at what point did you

1196
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: collectively all of you decide like I'm done, I'm tired,

1197
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: like we could just be regular. I mean, because some

1198
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: of y'all are super heroes to some people, and then

1199
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: you want to be regular.

1200
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 2: So at what point do you just decide like I

1201
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 2: gotta be regular and I'm gonna just be me.

1202
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.

1203
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 13: I think I personally have always operated from a space

1204
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 13: of like you said, like what, I'm drawn to the

1205
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,439
Speaker 13: things that bring me the most joy, and I try

1206
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 13: to nurture them, whatever that is. And I've also lived

1207
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 13: in places that have allowed me to do that safely,

1208
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 13: Like living in New Orleans is a huge part of that.

1209
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: And why did you choose New Orleans?

1210
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 3: I love New Orleans.

1211
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 5: I just loved the city.

1212
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 3: I love the people, I love the culture.

1213
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 4: Did you kind of break up with New York because

1214
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 4: I read something like that you kind of got tired

1215
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 4: of certain aspects in New York or East Coast eliteism

1216
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 4: liberally like that.

1217
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 9: That was definitely a part of it.

1218
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 13: That was definitely a part of it.

1219
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 2: But I think we were not so good in Brooklyn.

1220
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 9: How do you do all that gentrification in Brooklyn?

1221
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 4: And it's a lot it happens, It's happening, Yeah, but

1222
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 4: it's everywhere.

1223
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 2: Do you still have those house parties in New Orleans?

1224
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 1: Her last night in Brooklyn was was really cool, Like

1225
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 1: I had not even had a house party in my house.

1226
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 2: Like when I do a party, I gotta do it

1227
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 2: somewhere that's not in my house. Ship. Yeah, but it

1228
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 2: was like it was like a cool house party.

1229
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 4: DJ on Earth, it's been twenty years. Can I just

1230
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 4: add on this to something that you said. I wanted

1231
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 4: to ask you, you know, Amir said something about just

1232
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 4: the perception of you, but I feel like Solange fans

1233
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 4: have a different.

1234
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 9: Perception of you, and yeah, like I feel like, in

1235
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 9: kind of going.

1236
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 4: Back to what Fante said, because I said to Fante

1237
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 4: when we first were talking about having you on the show,

1238
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 4: I was like, you know, Solange is like she's free,

1239
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 4: you know, and I.

1240
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 2: Think you called me the male Solange.

1241
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 3: Who else?

1242
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 4: He said, what does that mean to you? And I said, well,

1243
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 4: to me, it means that whatever she does and whichever

1244
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 4: way she decides to do it, people who love her

1245
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 4: will follow it. And that fuck with you. And you

1246
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 4: don't have any leashes or any fences around you, like

1247
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 4: and the ways you said, it's so easily, like you know,

1248
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 4: I get.

1249
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 5: To say all these things that I want to say

1250
01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 5: and do all these things I want to do. That's

1251
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 5: like freedom. Do you know that?

1252
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 4: Do you know your fans look at you as kind

1253
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 4: of like the free?

1254
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's it's a lot that

1255
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 13: comes with that, because I think even just the design

1256
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 13: of the term like care free black girl, parts of

1257
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 13: that I embrace and then parts of that I reject

1258
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 13: because I do have a lot of care.

1259
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 9: I don't know what care.

1260
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 6: I know, well, you know that's.

1261
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 2: To care for you. That's the new Twitter term.

1262
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 4: What is a care free black girl?

1263
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 14: There's no such thing, but you well, the idea of

1264
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 14: if we claim that, and we we claim that as

1265
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 14: our names, that people are not allowed to see black.

1266
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 13: Women as care free individuals. They see us as angry

1267
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 13: black women.

1268
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 9: As you know, very wellful.

1269
01:05:58,360 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 2: This just turned into an episode.

1270
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 4: Can I just as men like what you just said,

1271
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 4: I feel all the time, y'all. Don't that doesn't just

1272
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 4: make you tire.

1273
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 2: Just might be real A hundred This this is like

1274
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 2: black healing time.

1275
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 11: No, No, that was real because because what she said,

1276
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 11: because sometimes she took the words out of my mouth

1277
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 11: when she was talking about like strong black women. And

1278
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 11: that's something that I've always what I think is like,

1279
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 11: you know, kind of the gift and the curse so

1280
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 11: to speak of black women is that that's like the

1281
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 11: first thing that black women always described as she's so strong,

1282
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 11: she's so strong, so strong, And so when you do that,

1283
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 11: it's like, yeah, they're strong in the sense of like

1284
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 11: what we've had to endure as people and how like

1285
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 11: women have been the backbone of the family and all

1286
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 11: the boys, right, but it wasn't a choice. And too,

1287
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 11: when you characterize something as always being strong, you don't

1288
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 11: ever give it a chance to be delicate. So you

1289
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 11: don't ever get you know, a black black woman, men

1290
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 11: get to be soft or vulnerable or delicate or fragile.

1291
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.

1292
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 11: You never get to see them in that way. So again,

1293
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 11: that was just one of the things I liked about

1294
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 11: your album. It gives a full portrait of just a black.

1295
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 9: Friend to the black woman.

1296
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: Next, we're gonna hear from Oscar winning director Catherine Bielow,

1297
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: and she's gonna explain why she chosen to resist conversations

1298
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 1: about the smaller circle of women directors than men. Catherine

1299
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: directed Zero, Dark, thirty and The Original, Point Break and

1300
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 1: The Boobye Detroit.

1301
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 4: Is there a female director collective like.

1302
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 15: Well, there's there's a kind of a kind of like

1303
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 15: that at the TCA Director Skilled of America, the Steering Committee,

1304
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 15: And I mean, you you know, I suppose my feeling

1305
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 15: is I've always resisted a conversation about your woman doing.

1306
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 15: You know, I think that kind of ghettoizes women, you know,

1307
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 15: in other words, that actually prevents a perceptual in other words,

1308
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 15: it it siloizes them. And so, you know, I think

1309
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 15: of myself as a filmmaker, I don't think of myself

1310
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 15: as a woman director.

1311
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 2: So there's no Sundays with Sophia and.

1312
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 15: I just I just don't think of that, only because

1313
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 15: I think it, Well, I don't think like that because

1314
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 15: I think it perpetuates that inequity.

1315
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 4: But what about from a mentorship standpoint, because they it

1316
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 4: is and I'm guessing that there is an inequity in

1317
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,640
Speaker 4: the numbers of the female directors.

1318
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:45,959
Speaker 15: And seven percent you mean that that kind of inequity.

1319
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, it's that like sixty cents

1320
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 4: to a dollar to me, but facts. But yeah, so

1321
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,480
Speaker 4: what about on that note, because there is a dichotomy

1322
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 4: of Okay, I don't want to be the female director,

1323
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 4: but hey, it's not a lot of us.

1324
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: So how do I use there an end game where

1325
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 1: you become mureau like do you run? Do you imagine

1326
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: like maybe fifteen years from now you will have your

1327
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 1: own paramount where you wow, make sure that again, like again,

1328
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 1: you said that, you already said that you don't want

1329
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 1: to focus on the sex of it, but at least

1330
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 1: from what you know, and I know that you've had

1331
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: a lot of mansplanning done in your life and a

1332
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: bunch of no's told to you, and you've saw injustice

1333
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 1: where your male counterparts would have gotten that and sure,

1334
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: petty shit like well, I think it should be done

1335
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 1: this way.

1336
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 2: And that whatever.

1337
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 1: So is there any desire to I would like to

1338
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: open my own production company and.

1339
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 2: Give fellow mes out there a voice or that sort

1340
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 2: of thing.

1341
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 5: Well, I'm.

1342
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 15: Well, I'm working with I do you know, I'm producing

1343
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 15: a couple of things, and I try to you know,

1344
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 15: I try to give back in that way. And I

1345
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 15: suppose also in the world of philanthropy, as I said,

1346
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 15: elephant conservation or any wildlife trafficking conservation, So you try

1347
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 15: to give back in a way that's meaningful. But I

1348
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 15: also am a creative advisor at Sundance, and that's where

1349
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 15: I sort of spend most of my energy of trying.

1350
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 2: To even at the score.

1351
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 15: Well, yeah, to a certain extent. On the other hand,

1352
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 15: I sort of always walk away from that feeling like

1353
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 15: I get way more than anybody else.

1354
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 2: You know.

1355
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 15: It's just I don't know, do you know, kind of

1356
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:46,560
Speaker 15: I don't presume to be able to. I mean, I

1357
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 15: never want to tell somebody what to do. I just

1358
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 15: want to do what I do and hope that inspires

1359
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 15: others to carry on. And I always tell them, don't

1360
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 15: take no for an answer. No, it doesn't exist. World

1361
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 15: in your universe not doesn't exist.

1362
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 1: All right, here's my pal Nelly Furtado speaking about some

1363
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 1: of the issues she encountered as a woman in the

1364
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: industreet surrounding her imaging and message.

1365
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 9: Twenty one year old girl, Like all of a sudden,

1366
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 9: like what, like I'm.

1367
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 12: Nominated for Grammy and like my mom's sitting next to

1368
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:26,679
Speaker 12: me and were at the Grammys and I went a grant.

1369
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 9: Like it was all surreal.

1370
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 2: How do you feel when they announced your name that night?

1371
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 2: I think I was there that night when you won

1372
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 2: your your Yeah.

1373
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 9: You were probably there, Yeah, back in the good old days.

1374
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 9: I mean it was amazing.

1375
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 2: I was like, what you kind of I mean you

1376
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,600
Speaker 2: expected to win. I mean you were unstoppable.

1377
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 12: I don't know, like it's still cool, Like it's still

1378
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 12: the funny thing that happens is afterwards. I remember I

1379
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 12: was living in it. I remember, actually exactly, because I

1380
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:53,719
Speaker 12: was living in LA for like a year. I remember

1381
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 12: you invited me to a party one night and I

1382
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 12: couldn't go, And I don't remember why.

1383
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 9: I couldn't convince my friend to come out with me

1384
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:03,519
Speaker 9: and I didn't go. My roommate my friend. But around

1385
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 9: that time, I remember starting to.

1386
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 12: Feel like, oh, I got to deal with all the

1387
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:11,680
Speaker 12: other ways I actually feel about this business, you know

1388
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 12: what I mean?

1389
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:13,719
Speaker 9: The starry eyes are gone.

1390
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 12: I'm now wondering does it all come down to wearing

1391
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 12: a pretty dress on the red carpet? And that really

1392
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 12: messes with you when you're only twenty two.

1393
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:22,639
Speaker 5: This is before the second album.

1394
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, it was right when I was about to record

1395
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 9: when you're.

1396
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 2: Worrying that you might become the establishment that you were.

1397
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 12: Yeah, and that's why my first single on Folklore is

1398
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 12: called Powerless where magically sign of the times.

1399
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 9: They asked me to sing it tomorrow on the Today Show.

1400
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 9: I was like, is this a typo? Do you need ris?

1401
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 2: Like?

1402
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:42,560
Speaker 9: Do you know what I mean? Like people want to

1403
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:43,440
Speaker 9: hear songs.

1404
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,640
Speaker 12: Like Powerless now, which was a kind of like a

1405
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:47,640
Speaker 12: protest song at the time.

1406
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:49,519
Speaker 11: The first line says, I mean, look at the time

1407
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 11: we're living in those it's now I think I know,

1408
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:52,679
Speaker 11: but it's.

1409
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 12: Amazing to me that music can live on in that

1410
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 12: way and still inspire people. Because the first line says,

1411
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 12: paint my face in your magazines, make it look whiter

1412
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 12: than it seems. Paint me over with your dreams, shove

1413
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 12: away my ethnicity because his life is too short.

1414
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:09,679
Speaker 9: To live it just for you. But if you feel

1415
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 9: when you feel so powerless, what are you gonna do? Okay,

1416
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 9: I got to learn lyrics before tomorrow. You yeah gonna do?

1417
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 9: So say what you want? But is that true now?

1418
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 12: Like?

1419
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 4: Really, at some point, somebody because your ethnicity is a

1420
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 4: part of yeah sound, So somebody.

1421
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 9: Really came at you in a label type that way

1422
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 9: in photo shoots.

1423
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,240
Speaker 12: Yeah, I felt like there was an how do I

1424
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 12: say anglization? Yeah, anglicization on me. I've always had olive skin,

1425
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 12: you know what I mean. I was aware of that

1426
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 12: because I grew up in a small town British colony.

1427
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 12: I was like the only ethnic kid in my class

1428
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 12: in kindergarten, so it's all you know, relative and then

1429
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 12: I and so by the time I was done with

1430
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 12: my first record and I was doing Powerless, I was like, well,

1431
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:51,240
Speaker 12: what about who am I really?

1432
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 9: You know what I mean?

1433
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:53,640
Speaker 12: Like, what what am I really about? And what do

1434
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 12: I want to say on this next record? So I

1435
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 12: started talking about the next record. I have a song

1436
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 12: called like Fresh off the Boat. You know, my parents

1437
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 12: are immigrants. I was born in Canada. I have a

1438
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:05,439
Speaker 12: song called picture Perfect about my dad's like immigrant dream

1439
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 12: of like coming to Canada and how everything looks so

1440
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:10,680
Speaker 12: good in the old seventies photographs when you look at it.

1441
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 9: Right, So anyway, yeah, that's what happened. Yeah, Sometimes I

1442
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 9: would feel like there was a paradigm you needed to

1443
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 9: fit into at the time that didn't always match how

1444
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:22,640
Speaker 9: I felt. Do you know what I mean?

1445
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 12: Yeah?

1446
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right.

1447
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 1: So last week we played a clip from Chila and

1448
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 1: I asked her if she felt any pressure as a

1449
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 1: woman playing the drums, And I asked the same about

1450
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 1: Terry Lane Carrington in twenty twenty two. She had a

1451
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:39,639
Speaker 1: real answer too, which not only spoke to her self confidence,

1452
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 1: but to the work she does play in ginger equality

1453
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 1: as an educator.

1454
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 2: Let's listen back.

1455
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 4: I just want to know, you say from the jump,

1456
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 4: jazz was in your life in the sense that like

1457
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 4: no other you weren't even as a kid in school,

1458
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 4: because I mean you said Berkeley when you were eleven.

1459
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:00,840
Speaker 4: So I'm like, did anything else ever getting to the

1460
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 4: householder into your ears outside of the.

1461
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 16: Art, Okay, Yeah, I mean I was. I mean I

1462
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 16: listened to the radio and I listened to you know,

1463
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 16: like my father started me off listening to what he

1464
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,679
Speaker 16: would consider more rhythm and blues, which at the time

1465
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 16: we were talking about the early seventies. But for him,

1466
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 16: like he played in horn sections with James Brown and

1467
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 16: Ruth Brown and people like that when he was in college,

1468
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 16: and so that's the kind of music he started me

1469
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:30,080
Speaker 16: off listening to because he thought I would be able

1470
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:32,679
Speaker 16: to relate to that, you know, more than John Coletraine

1471
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:36,679
Speaker 16: and Miles Davis. So I was listening to lots of Oregon,

1472
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 16: you know, lots lots of blues, Jack McDuff, Jimmy McGriff,

1473
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 16: and you know, some rhythm and blues of course, James Brown,

1474
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:47,560
Speaker 16: Ray Charles Raytha Franklin. And those are the records, you know,

1475
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 16: a lot of the records that I remember, you know,

1476
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 16: as a kid.

1477
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:52,759
Speaker 1: Can you tell me the first album that you purchased

1478
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 1: with your own money? Not just that around the house,

1479
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:58,720
Speaker 1: like oh, let me see what Dad's James Brown's album

1480
01:15:58,720 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 1: are into?

1481
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 16: But like, yeah, you know, like I don't know if

1482
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 16: I purchased it, but I think I must have asked

1483
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 16: my parents to get get it for me, because I'm

1484
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 16: not sure they would have. For whatever reason, I was obsessed.

1485
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 16: And I remember I had one of those kids it

1486
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 16: was green too, one of those kids, uh phonograph players

1487
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 16: that had a little speaker built in.

1488
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 2: Post pre school or whatever, Fisher Price record players. Yeah,

1489
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 2: I feel like I know what this record or what

1490
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 2: was the record?

1491
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 16: Oh no, it was the Fifth Dimension.

1492
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:33,640
Speaker 4: It was.

1493
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:39,439
Speaker 16: I was obsessed with Aquarius. Uh yeah, for some reason,

1494
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 16: the age of the Aquarius, Like are you one? No, no, no,

1495
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 16: I'm a leo.

1496
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 5: Okay, I forget.

1497
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:53,040
Speaker 8: That being the record.

1498
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:56,120
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no no no, I'm just saying no,

1499
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 2: it's for being a leo.

1500
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: Get points if you're a queer for drumming, though, you know,

1501
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 1: I know that there's a sect of people whose opinions

1502
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:08,560
Speaker 1: are like, you know, at least for ginger pairing, Like

1503
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: there are instruments that it's probably deemed that men should

1504
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 1: use only as far as masculine or feminine whatever, like

1505
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:24,680
Speaker 1: the women on drums really, in my opinion, like an

1506
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 1: adjustment pre nineteen eighties. But at all, did anyone ever

1507
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 1: discourage you, like, well, why don't you try the piano

1508
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 1: or maybe a guitar, violin, yeah, clarinet.

1509
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't you know.

1510
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 16: I don't know if anybody really ever discouraged me. And

1511
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 16: I was you know, I was confident at a young age,

1512
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 16: so like, I think what tells a story about that?

1513
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 16: For me, the best is when I met Buddy Rich

1514
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 16: for the first time. I was ten. I was a

1515
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 16: guest with Clark Terry, so nice to you. That was

1516
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 16: the thing. Everybody said, stay away from him. He's in

1517
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 16: a really bad mood. And I didn't care, and I

1518
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 16: went up to him anyway. And so then somebody stepped

1519
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 16: in and said, well, let me introduce you to young Terry.

1520
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 16: She's a guest with Clark Terry. And he said, oh, yeah,

1521
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 16: you better not be any good. And I just looked

1522
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:17,720
Speaker 16: at him and said, well, who's going to stop me?

1523
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 5: Ooh? And then he said he kind of took a.

1524
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 16: Step back, and then he said, you want to come

1525
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 16: play with my band?

1526
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:32,560
Speaker 5: Oh you see what I mean? Flax flax? No, but

1527
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 5: well it wasn't that. It was beautiful flax.

1528
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:37,519
Speaker 16: Well yeah, because I think it's how you're raised and

1529
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:40,719
Speaker 16: I was raised that this is my music.

1530
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 3: Where did that.

1531
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:44,280
Speaker 4: Confidence come from, Terry? Like, do you remember, like did

1532
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:46,880
Speaker 4: your parents something say to you, like the impetus of.

1533
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,599
Speaker 16: That, Like, I think it's who you are, and that's

1534
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 16: why I do so much gender equity work now because

1535
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 16: every woman shouldn't have to be like me. I would

1536
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:57,560
Speaker 16: go ahead to head with any man, you know what

1537
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 16: I mean, And I'm not intimidated by anyone. I can

1538
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 16: be I can be shy, and I can be insecure.

1539
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:08,720
Speaker 16: Of course, we're all insecure. If I was playing a

1540
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 16: gig next to you, I would be insecure, especially if

1541
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:13,720
Speaker 16: I had to play the groove, I'd be like, oh man,

1542
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 16: he sitting next to me.

1543
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:20,560
Speaker 2: Damn, right now you're talking about sugar Steve and his

1544
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:21,679
Speaker 2: engineering skills.

1545
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 16: What I'm just saying, No, I'm serious, And so I'm

1546
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 16: just saying that doesn't mean I think you can be

1547
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 16: confident and that be a part of your personality, which

1548
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 16: doesn't mean there's these other things that you know aren't

1549
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:39,920
Speaker 16: there as well. But you shouldn't have to be like

1550
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 16: me to make it, you know, you shouldn't have to

1551
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 16: have that kind of personality as a woman to to

1552
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:51,600
Speaker 16: have the opportunity or the access or mentorship or apprenticeships.

1553
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 16: And so that's you know, when I realized that. That's

1554
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:56,600
Speaker 16: when I because I had been looking at women saying, well,

1555
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:57,680
Speaker 16: what do you mean? Just do it?

1556
01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:00,360
Speaker 5: You know, like, what do you mean, just later for them,

1557
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:00,680
Speaker 5: you know.

1558
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:03,679
Speaker 16: Like something discourage you, that should give you more infetous

1559
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:06,519
Speaker 16: to you know, And then I realized, you know, they

1560
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 16: have a nervous breakdowns and shit, you know, like so

1561
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 16: I had to look at it differently.

1562
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 4: Because everybody doesn't have a foundation, because you still had

1563
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 4: some type of foundation to let you know that that

1564
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 4: is the way to think, and these women didn't have that.

1565
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 16: So and they don't need to. That's the whole thing.

1566
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 16: We're all different, you know, we don't have to be.

1567
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:28,439
Speaker 16: I was nothing around nothing but men playing, you know,

1568
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:31,599
Speaker 16: for a long time, and so I ended up kind

1569
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 16: of acting like them, you know, and not be you know,

1570
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:37,760
Speaker 16: having a problem being around man all the time. So

1571
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 16: I think that, you know, we should celebrate our differences.

1572
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 16: And what does a woman's aesthetic sound like in the music?

1573
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 16: You know, I think that's the question we should start

1574
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 16: to ask.

1575
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 1: All right, y'all, thank you for tuning in and celebrating

1576
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:57,680
Speaker 1: Women's History Month with QLES. We're gonna be releasing some

1577
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:00,599
Speaker 1: new conversations, especially with some amazing women.

1578
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 2: Soon, so please come back next week for Pardon Free,

1579
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 2: What's the Sugree, what's the production of iHeart radio.

1580
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1581
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:22,759
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.