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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Noah.

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Speaker 4: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 5: We're joined as always with our super producer Bald, mission

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Speaker 5: control deck, and most importantly, you are here. That makes

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Speaker 5: this the stuff they don't want you to know. We're

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Speaker 5: returning to the world of the paranormal this evening, returning

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Speaker 5: in a way to earlier explorations of things like divine

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Speaker 5: intervention and the phenomenon of hearing voices. Which is funny, right, guys,

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Speaker 5: because right now our fellow conspiracy realists are using electricity

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Speaker 5: to hear us as voices in their heads.

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Speaker 6: We tell yeah, we're hearing each other as voices in

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Speaker 6: our own heads currently too.

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Speaker 5: Also a good point. Yeah, we have the benefit of

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Speaker 5: being able to see each other in little thumbnails. We

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Speaker 5: are participating in something called electronic voice phenomenon or EVP.

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Speaker 5: Tonight's episode is about something similar, with one crucial exception.

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Speaker 5: We ask you, folks, what if instead of hearing podcasters,

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Speaker 5: people are claiming to hear ghosts. Here are the facts. Here,

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Speaker 5: Here are the facts. Keep it.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, you did spell it that way in the outline.

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Speaker 6: You had to say it elt because people wouldn't get

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Speaker 6: the joke otherwise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about ghosts. These are the facts. Some

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Speaker 2: people believe that when a human being or any other

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Speaker 2: living beings, sometimes even what we would consider to be

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Speaker 2: non living beings, die, they live on in some way,

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Speaker 2: or perhaps they linger in our corporeal world, and maybe

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Speaker 2: at some point they move on to some other realm.

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Speaker 2: But for some reason, whether it's through trauma, through some

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Speaker 2: kind of wrongdoing, just there. If there's a time period

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Speaker 2: in which they remain, these dead people and dead beings

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Speaker 2: stick around.

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Speaker 5: People have been believing in ghosts forever, literally since people

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Speaker 5: were peopling. We're wondering what happened when folks passed on.

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Speaker 5: As you said, Matt, it's part of it's because the

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Speaker 5: human species has no universally agreed upon understanding of what

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Speaker 5: happens after physical death. That is a very frightening, very

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Speaker 5: true thing. The study of death is called fanatology. We

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Speaker 5: even made up a word for it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, fanos, isn't he like the lord of death or something.

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Speaker 5: He has a crush on death, that's rights.

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Speaker 3: Did they handle that in the movies. I don't think

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Speaker 3: they did, but I did hear that that was the

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Speaker 3: thing in the comics.

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Speaker 6: No, it's a reasonable thing to think about, you know,

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Speaker 6: I mean they you know, everyone alway, jokes are morbidly

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Speaker 6: notes that it's the one thing that we all experience,

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Speaker 6: but no one has any idea what it's like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is important to stress here this is

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Speaker 2: a belief in some form of after existence that can

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Speaker 2: be experienced by humans here right.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, and no one you know, obviously, no one on

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Speaker 5: this show is going to poo poo anybody's personal belief

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Speaker 5: or personal value system. What we can say conclusively is

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Speaker 5: that at this point, no single theory, no single proposal

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Speaker 5: about what happens to human mind or soul after physical death,

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Speaker 5: has ever been accepted by everybody else alive on the planet.

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Speaker 5: People die, no one agrees what happens after and this

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Speaker 5: remains the fundamental question moving civilization. There are a lot

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Speaker 5: of people who believe they have to say covered the answer,

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Speaker 5: or have perhaps philosophically reconciled it with their own existence.

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Speaker 5: They cannot convince everyone else of the truth. And this

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Speaker 5: is the basis for most religious conflict throughout human history.

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Speaker 5: A lot of people, also, perhaps a bit less ambitiously,

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Speaker 5: will say, look, I don't know the ins and outs

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Speaker 5: of the universe. I'm not the emperor of metaphysics or

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Speaker 5: ice cream A shout out to the poetry fans. But

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Speaker 5: they will say I do believe, however, that I have

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Speaker 5: experienced or seen something that science cannot yet explain, just

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Speaker 5: saying look, I don't know the specifics, but I was

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Speaker 5: there at the Dave Embusters. That lady was transparent. I

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Speaker 5: felt a chill in the room as she turned the corner,

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Speaker 5: walked through a wall and disappeared.

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Speaker 6: And then I was weirdly coded in a thin film

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Speaker 6: of gooey material.

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Speaker 2: Spooky ghosts, But in this case, it's maybe you heard

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Speaker 2: something when nobody else was in there.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: But there's there's something else that's added to this, and

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Speaker 2: that's in those religious beliefs and movements you're talking about there, Ben,

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Speaker 2: there's not just the spirits of human beings, right, there's

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Speaker 2: also other worldly entities within most religions that exist outside

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Speaker 2: of the human experience, right, or maybe can enter our

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Speaker 2: world at certain times or just you know, make a

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Speaker 2: brief appearance. So you're you're also talking about angels and

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Speaker 2: demons and smokeless fire beings and all kinds of yeah,

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Speaker 2: and all kinds of other There's so many other types

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Speaker 2: of beings that are in within belief systems that could

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Speaker 2: be maybe thought to be a ghost by one observer, right,

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Speaker 2: or could be something completely different, or are just you know,

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Speaker 2: as we've seen some of the mundane explanations for these things.

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Speaker 2: It could be any number.

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Speaker 5: Of the tangible but into intangible yet somehow interactive under

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Speaker 5: the correct circumstance.

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Speaker 2: And that's a great way to put it.

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Speaker 6: Like every religion, I mean, I think for the most part,

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Speaker 6: every religion that I know of has some form of

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Speaker 6: these things, whether it be like dibbicks, you know, and

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Speaker 6: the Jewish faith or you know, demons or whatever you

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Speaker 6: might call them. They're all kinds of different kind of

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Speaker 6: genres of these things that exist in this parallel universe,

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Speaker 6: you know, between different faiths.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty cool. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, but and then you've also got the science added

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Speaker 2: to that, right, which is some of the fundamental laws

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Speaker 2: of physics about energy not ever being able to be destroyed, right,

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Speaker 2: it can be reshaped and changed. But the fact that

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Speaker 2: human beings can't at this moment prove that which is

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Speaker 2: the experiencer in humans? Right, We've got some pretty good

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Speaker 2: ideas of what that thing is that you right now

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Speaker 2: listening to this and processing the words and having thoughts

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Speaker 2: about yourself in the world as you're hearing these words.

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Speaker 2: We can't prove what that is. We have some good

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Speaker 2: idea is. But theoretically that spirit, that soul, that thing,

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Speaker 2: that energy that's inside of each and every one of

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Speaker 2: us right now, may there may be some key to

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Speaker 2: it that we just haven't figured out, or some lock

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Speaker 2: that we haven't opened yet.

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Speaker 5: Right there chance, you know, there's a ghost of a

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Speaker 5: chance to solve it, to solve this question as star stuff,

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Speaker 5: I mean yes, obviously, Look, hardcore skeptics in the crowd,

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Speaker 5: you hear the word ghost, you hear the G word,

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Speaker 5: and you might say, ah, fiddle d d or fiddlesticks. Right,

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Speaker 5: that's how, that's how, that's the very.

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Speaker 4: Character you're in a nursery rhyme, And that's all skeptics.

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Speaker 5: Are characters in nursery rhymes apparently. But if you are

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Speaker 5: a hardcore skeptic and your world is normalized such that

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Speaker 5: you don't run into people who feel they have had

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Speaker 5: a supernatural experience. You may be surprised to learn this

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Speaker 5: is a relatively common thing in the West, in the

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Speaker 5: US alone. Back in twenty nineteen, there was a poll

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Speaker 5: from a French marketing giant named Ipsos, and they found

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Speaker 5: that nearly half of all Americans polled believe in ghosts.

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Speaker 5: Forty six percent of people, when asked, said they believe

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Speaker 5: in the spirits of the dead or in these intangible,

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Speaker 5: maybe non human entities that can be communicated with, even

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Speaker 5: if they felt they had no personal, firsthand experience with

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Speaker 5: such fun fact, by the way, that same poll says

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Speaker 5: that seven percent of Americans believe in vampires. Six percent

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Speaker 5: of Americans believe in zombies. Shout out to Shout out

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Speaker 5: to at borat on Twitter who ask how many believe

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Speaker 5: in zompires?

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Speaker 6: Oh nice, you gotta believe in something, That's what I say,

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Speaker 6: And I mean was really quickly speaking of belief. I

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Speaker 6: mean the tenant or the crux of like all of

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Speaker 6: these faces is answering the question of what happens, you know,

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Speaker 6: after you die, some form of moralistic kind of you know,

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Speaker 6: framework that gives you points, you know, in the afterlife

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Speaker 6: for the stuff.

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Speaker 3: You do in this life.

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Speaker 6: And they're all kind of their own set of rules

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Speaker 6: and they vary, but they usually have some sort of

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Speaker 6: commonalities too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, and just forty six percent feels like such a

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Speaker 2: large number because we're a society. America is not one,

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Speaker 2: you know, cohesive thing, right, It's a bunch of different

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Speaker 2: cultures coming together. And I'm just imagining in my experience,

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Speaker 2: in the experience that maybe I see in representations of America.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of family friend groups. We are not a

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Speaker 2: one large, cohesive culture that venerates the dead in some

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Speaker 2: large way, not at least not when compared to many

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Speaker 2: other cultures across the world, right, Like we don't have

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Speaker 2: you know, generally, I get you can't really speak this way,

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Speaker 2: but there aren't a lot of shrines for dead family

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Speaker 2: members in like Middle America household. I don't think, at

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Speaker 2: least from my experience that I say, right, there's not

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Speaker 2: a lot of places where you go in days on

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Speaker 2: which you go and venerate the dead members of your

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Speaker 2: family and your ancestors. While that is an experience that

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of us have right, I would

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Speaker 2: say it's probably more few and far between than a

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Speaker 2: lot of other places in the world.

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Speaker 5: The shrine, Yeah, agreed, You're right, Matt. The shrine has

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Speaker 5: been replaced by the simple tombstone in the United States

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Speaker 5: without the same schedule of veneration. And going back to

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Speaker 5: there's something really interesting with the idea of science versus spirituality.

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Speaker 5: Science attempts to explain how something occurs, and spirituality attempts

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Speaker 5: to explain why something occurs. So indeed, it may be

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Speaker 5: true that science as a philosophical perspective is unequipped to

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Speaker 5: answer certain questions.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean one of the whole points of faith

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Speaker 6: is having the why not matter ins sort of putting

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Speaker 6: your trust in something that's bigger than you that you

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Speaker 6: don't fully understand, and that you acknowledge you don't fully understand.

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Speaker 6: That's sort of part of it, too, is just believing

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Speaker 6: without proof. Well, I'm not saying I'm saying that as

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Speaker 6: I think. I'm not saying that as a good or

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Speaker 6: bad thing. I just think it's interesting.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And I love the observation too about ancestor worship

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Speaker 5: as it would be called some places, the veneration of

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Speaker 5: those who came before, because you can go to any

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Speaker 5: number of other countries, you know. I remember speaking with

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Speaker 5: some folks in Japan who were saying, Hey, you know,

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Speaker 5: these shrines may seem commercialized to outsiders because there's a

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Speaker 5: you know, there's a shrine every couple of feet or whatever.

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Speaker 5: There's a shrine next to the McDonald's or what happened?

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Speaker 4: Can you buy ad space on the shrines?

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Speaker 6: Though, that's what I'm picturing. I haven't been in Japan.

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Speaker 6: I'm just wondering what you mean by commercialized the idea.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the proximity, the approachability, the ubiquity. But then there's

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Speaker 5: also something beautiful about that, about having the spirituality exist

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Speaker 5: in the same space as a very secular system. I mean,

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Speaker 5: that's what I think. Like this number forty six percent

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Speaker 5: of Americans in an increasingly secular era of time, the

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Speaker 5: fact that almost half of people in the US believe

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Speaker 5: in ghosts, I think it tells us a lot about

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Speaker 5: the society in which these beliefs occur. You know, it

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Speaker 5: goes back to sort of the old question about technology, right, Like,

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Speaker 5: for a long time, there was this belief that technological

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Speaker 5: breakthroughs and scientific discoveries would put previous supernatural experiences squarely

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Speaker 5: in the realm of the mundane and the explainable, and

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Speaker 5: that is simply not the case.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 5: We know science can explain some things, but the assumption

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Speaker 5: of the technology versus the spiritual is woefully incorrect. Fears

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Speaker 5: of the parent normal fascination. It just adapts with emergent factors.

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Speaker 4: For sure.

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Speaker 2: And with today's episode, just to that point, Ben, we

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Speaker 2: would figure, Okay, there's some weird sounding stuff on this recording.

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Speaker 2: It sounds kind of like a human voice. But maybe

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Speaker 2: with science or just with enough examination, we can figure

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Speaker 2: out what that actually was. Right, But like, that hasn't

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Speaker 2: happened yet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, think about it, hasn't it.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's happened in some cases, but there's not

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Speaker 5: a silver bullet answer.

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Speaker 6: But we're also talking about something that has occurred and

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Speaker 6: not necessarily to someone, an experiential thing that someone has

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Speaker 6: reported having happened to them. And then how could you

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Speaker 6: possibly expect to recreate those exact circumstances, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 6: if it is truly a spiritual occurrence and not just

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Speaker 6: some thing that could be explained like crossed waves or

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Speaker 6: whatever it might be.

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Speaker 5: You know, what I mean, But there's still a tangible artifact.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I can just get it.

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Speaker 6: I just think, you know, that would be more of

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Speaker 6: a thing that as associated with a place that you

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Speaker 6: could then go test. But if someone's being spoken to

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Speaker 6: by the divine or they're hearing something.

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Speaker 4: Like that, how could you possibly test.

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Speaker 6: For it knowing where and when it will occur if

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Speaker 6: it's based on the individual.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm just spitballing here, guy, I think

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Speaker 3: that stuff.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the really cool thing about today's subject

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Speaker 2: because it is a scientific attempt to prove something that

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Speaker 2: we cannot currently prove with science. Right, We're trying to

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Speaker 2: collect an evidence that would be proof enough to test

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Speaker 2: and further test and further test to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's actually what's happening.

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Speaker 5: And this is this is mission critical because we know

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Speaker 5: we know technology does not dispel the supernatural. That's why,

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Speaker 5: for instance, tales of the the unsealy or the hidden folk,

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Speaker 5: or fay auctions and changelings. That's why when UFOs became

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Speaker 5: a thing in popular culture, that's why all those fairy

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Speaker 5: tale abductions became UFO abduction stories. Look at it, folks,

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Speaker 5: beat for beat These are the same stories. Ghostly armies

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Speaker 5: become ghost trains, when trains become a thing, Haunted crossroads

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Speaker 5: give way to ghostly hitchhikers, on and on and on.

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Speaker 5: This applies to the ways in which people believe they

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Speaker 5: experience ghosts. We want to thank everybody who wrote to

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Speaker 5: us in our previous episodes about encounters that you may

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Speaker 5: have had that you can't explain. You know, people might

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Speaker 5: believe they've seen a ghost, but that's just the beginning.

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Speaker 5: You might feel a ghost, a chill in the room.

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Speaker 5: What's weird about this? Dave and Busters? Now a brush

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Speaker 5: of a hand along your shoulder in the dark, or

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Speaker 5: you know, smell is a big thing, right. People will

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Speaker 5: say I lost someone, I was at their grave, or

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Speaker 5: I was thinking of them, I held an object of

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Speaker 5: great import and I smelled their perfume. Or I went

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Speaker 5: to the sight of a great wartime tragedy and there

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Speaker 5: was still a persistent odor of gunpowder in the air.

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Speaker 5: Technology just gives us new avenues of paranormal experience. To

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Speaker 5: your point, Matt, the question tonight is what if you

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Speaker 5: don't see ghost what if you can hear them? We're

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Speaker 5: going to pause for a word from our sponsor. Here's

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Speaker 5: where it gets crazy. The fancy term for this is

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Speaker 5: electronic voice phenomenon or EVP, and I think a lot

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Speaker 5: of us have stories about this kind of thing in

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Speaker 5: the world of ghost hunting or parapsychology, as doctor Vankman

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Speaker 5: puts it. In The Ghostbusters not the Cat, the character

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Speaker 5: played by Bill Murray. EVP just describes sounds encountered on

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Speaker 5: electronic recordings that are interpreted as the voices of spirits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you may have seen these on things like

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Speaker 2: Ghost Adventures or any of the other myriad of shows

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Speaker 2: out there where people are hunting ghosts on your television

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Speaker 2: or on your phone. Probably now it's weird because it's

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Speaker 2: so broad at this point. It could be just audio

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Speaker 2: that is captured with a microphone, right when people are

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Speaker 2: walking around with their cameras and their microphones and they're

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Speaker 2: asking questions in the dark, and there's a response.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes that response is audible that you can hear right

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Speaker 2: as you're watching the television show that all the actors

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Speaker 2: slash ghost hunters on the television here as well in

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Speaker 2: the moment. Other times it sounds that occur on that

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Speaker 2: tape or on that electronic recording well after the fact, right,

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Speaker 2: and they're only heard after the team goes back to

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Speaker 2: the van and plays it back and they enhance it,

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Speaker 2: and then you've got some kind of audio on there.

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Speaker 2: It really is a pretty wide range of just some

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Speaker 2: kind of audio that is recorded, whether or not it's

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Speaker 2: actual vibrations being recorded or let's say the machine being

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Speaker 2: manipulated in some way to create audio.

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Speaker 3: Dude, I so funny bring that up.

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Speaker 6: I was texting with our friend of the show, Alex,

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Speaker 6: you know, ephemeral theme and just a wonderful dude good

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Speaker 6: friend about this microphone that I saw as a company

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Speaker 6: that make synthesizers and they also make a microphone. They're

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Speaker 6: called Soma, and it is designed to record electromagnetic interference

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Speaker 6: in the air, and like you can take it anywhere

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Speaker 6: and it just like it's tuned in almost like a

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Speaker 6: reverse radio kind of to record like all of this stuff,

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Speaker 6: whether it be microwaves or you know, radio frequencies or whatever.

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Speaker 6: And a lot of people in you know, kind of

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Speaker 6: electronic nerdy music synth community use these for few recordings

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Speaker 6: and you know, convert them into weird soundscapy kind of things.

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Speaker 6: And I sent it a mi link to it because

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Speaker 6: he's into that kind of stuff. And he responded, that's

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Speaker 6: how you hear the ghosts.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: I want to buy one.

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Speaker 6: I really want to buy one and hear what it's

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Speaker 6: all about. I haven't even heard any samples, but I'm

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Speaker 6: fascinated by this idea and.

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Speaker 3: What he said. I think there's something to it.

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Speaker 5: Everybody check out Ephemeral while you can. I think all

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Speaker 5: of us have some involvement with it in the interest

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Speaker 5: of transparency. I truly believe it's one of the best

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Speaker 5: shows out there. The question about EVP reminds us also

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Speaker 5: of photos of Bigfoot. I know it sounds dumb, but

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Speaker 5: photos of bigfoot camera technology, photographic technology has come so far,

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Speaker 5: but every photo of bigfoot bit blurry, bit indistinct. And

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Speaker 5: indeed this is the case with audio recordings purported to

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Speaker 5: be example of EVP. The recording may often be staticky, scratchy,

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Speaker 5: as if the voice on the other end of the

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Speaker 5: line is coming from far away. It's faint, it's muddled,

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Speaker 5: maybe indistinct. To the true believers, this is hard evidence

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Speaker 5: of life beyond the grave, and we owe a lot

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Speaker 5: or EVP. We should say, oh, it's a great deal.

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Speaker 5: To the Spiritualist movement, which it's weird that we've never

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Speaker 5: done a deep dive on the spiritualist movement because it's

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Speaker 5: endlessly fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Oh for sure. I was just gonna say, before we

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Speaker 2: get into spiritualism movement. One of the weird things about

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Speaker 2: EVP now is that sometimes it's extremely easy to hear,

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Speaker 2: and you can it's crisp and clean, But it has

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Speaker 2: more to do with the technology that's being utilized rather

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Speaker 2: than the actual recording of whatever is supposedly speaking to people.

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Speaker 2: You guys have seen those boxes that they have now

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Speaker 2: that will randomly pull in radio signals. It's like a

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Speaker 2: it's like a radio randomizer that plays stuff across like

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Speaker 2: all the spectrum.

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Speaker 4: Like the entryway too, the iHeart offices.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like that. But they will do that now,

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Speaker 2: and you'll see someone on you know again on television.

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Speaker 2: You'll see someone in a room in the dark asking questions,

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Speaker 2: you know, to the nothingness in the room or the

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Speaker 2: thing or whatever it is they're trying to contact, and

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Speaker 2: this thing will randomly play actual DJs basically saying words

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Speaker 2: at random, and so you can hear really well exactly

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Speaker 2: what's being said. But it's not. It's just so strange

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Speaker 2: how it becomes muddied when you when people are trying

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Speaker 2: to apply new technological advancements to this thing that then

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Speaker 2: actually make it maybe even less real to me.

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Speaker 5: So, Matt, are you saying then that there are very crisp,

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Speaker 5: clear proven recordings of ghosts.

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Speaker 2: Well, there are crisp, clear proven recordings of someone playing

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Speaker 2: a radio randomly that appear to be answering the questions

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Speaker 2: that are being asked in a room in Yes, but

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Speaker 2: so like you can hear it and it's clearly that,

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Speaker 2: and it's like someone asks, well, what is your name Bob?

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Speaker 2: You're like, oh, wow, that's clearly Bob. But uh, it

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Speaker 2: was just some DJ you know in Tennessee somewhere that

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Speaker 2: said Bob randomly and the thing selected it.

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Speaker 6: And you know, it's sort of like walking down the street,

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Speaker 6: like in a busy city and overhearing snippets of people's conversations,

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Speaker 6: and you know, if you wanted to interpret it, you

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Speaker 6: could take a word here and a word there as

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Speaker 6: how is this about me? Yeah, one hundred percent. But

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Speaker 6: like you know that that's just an electronic version of that.

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Speaker 6: When you're scrolling through the dial and you're you're tuning

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Speaker 6: between stations and hearing little snippets of whether it be

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Speaker 6: commercials or people talking or whatever. You can pull something

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Speaker 6: out of it if you think about it or enough audio.

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Speaker 2: R Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean interrupt. Just for me.

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Speaker 2: It's just weird because we're in this weird space where

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Speaker 2: it's like it's hard to tell. It's so hard to tell. Well, no, no,

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Speaker 2: what it is is you have to decide. So it's

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Speaker 2: all about belief. So in the end, you have to

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Speaker 2: decide if you believe that the technique that's being utilized

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Speaker 2: is either scientifically sound or matches what you think a

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Speaker 2: ghost would.

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Speaker 5: Do, right, put oneself in ghostly shoes, you know. And

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Speaker 5: that's also I think that's a fantastic point about the

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Speaker 5: role of technology. Technology again does not dispel the supernatural.

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Speaker 5: That is a dangerous assumption, right, and I think it

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Speaker 5: dismisses a lot of human experience. Spirituality or excuse me.

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Speaker 5: The spiritualist movement had their heyday for about a century

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Speaker 5: eighteen forties nineteen forties. Peters out in the last half

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Speaker 5: of the twentieth century, and their whole thing was that

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Speaker 5: they could the belief was we can use the scientific

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Speaker 5: method technology to interrogate this continual cross cultural experience with

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Speaker 5: what appears to be ghostly entities through things like photography,

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Speaker 5: through the scientific measurement of ectoplasm, you know, do some

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Speaker 5: double blind test with mediums. Houdini was a fan of

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Speaker 5: that all of this could help society better understand some

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Speaker 5: hidden world. Spiritualism has a ton of problems, number one

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Speaker 5: being honestly, folks, the Charlatans and grifters who made a

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Speaker 5: lot of money in the game. But I think it's

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Speaker 5: safe to say most of the folks who were interested

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Speaker 5: in this were acting in good faith. They're humans, they

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Speaker 5: want to understand the world, they want a need to discover,

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Speaker 5: recognize and leverage patterns.

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Speaker 2: Because as you said, they made money on it. But

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Speaker 2: they were also saying that they could just communicate with

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Speaker 2: the dead, you know, and not even use technology.

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Speaker 3: So the.

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Speaker 6: Technology like for the show of it all on the

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Speaker 6: table move and using like air pumps and things like that.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I'm sorry, I'm being a glib I guess,

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Speaker 6: but I tend to think that a lot of the

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Speaker 6: members of the spiritualist movement were in some way taking

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Speaker 6: advantage of people's spiritual beliefs, you know, but.

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Speaker 2: Just the fact that there were enough other humans who

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Speaker 2: were interested enough in those seances, in those techniques that

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Speaker 2: you're describing, There been where it's like they wanted to

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Speaker 2: believe in that enough that these people the charlatan. The

436
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 2: Charlatan's made some bank. So it's like it and now

437
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 2: we see it moving into the TikTok generation where it's

438
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 2: this neo spiritualist movement that is now based There's so

439
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 2: much based on taro, so much based on astrology, so

440
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: much based on feeling and interpreting and intuiting everything that

441
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: you know, whether it comes to interpersonal relationships and dating

442
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: to how you view the world and using the secret

443
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: to manifest your whatever. It is massive.

444
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 3: Right now.

445
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 5: My toxic trade is texting romantic interest at eleven eleven

446
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 5: or on eleven and just be like thinking.

447
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: Of you portals.

448
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 6: I didn't mean to sound like I was throwing the

449
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 6: baby out with the bathwater there. I know that there

450
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 6: are members of you know, these kinds of things that

451
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 6: aren't just trying to rip people off or using it

452
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 6: for clout. I mean, but I guess when I think

453
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 6: of the spiritualist movement, I think largely of the bad apples,

454
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 6: and that may be on me, oh like the theosophist

455
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 6: and so on. Well, yeah, and just like the you know,

456
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 6: phony mediums and things like that.

457
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 2: I didn't mean to put that on you that way, Noel,

458
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: in that response, I just mean that it's so popular

459
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 2: right now and as it was then.

460
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 6: Right I'm just walking back what I said. I didn't

461
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 6: want to sound I mean, it's just I do realize

462
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 6: that there are people that genuinely believe all kinds of things.

463
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 6: But it's easy to focus in on the negative parts.

464
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 4: Of that history, I guess.

465
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 6: And maybe I'm just a spiritual kind of skeptic or

466
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 6: a little bit jaded about that kind of stuff because

467
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 6: of my own upbringing.

468
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 5: You know, there's nothing wrong with that. There's the argument again,

469
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 5: is that technology once again does not dismiss the supernatural.

470
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 5: It becomes a new avenue for the exploration of such

471
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 5: right of these experiences. And Noel, I would say that

472
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 5: point that you make holds true in the modern day,

473
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 5: or what we call the modern day. It is going

474
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 5: to be hilarious, by the way, in thirty twenty four

475
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 5: when people listen to this and say, aren't you guys

476
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 5: technically now ghost on a recording, well.

477
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 6: One hundred percent, No, that's I mean, that's at the

478
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 6: heart of a lot of this as recordings are memory.

479
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, ghosts to me in a lot of ways,

480
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 6: our memories and the ways.

481
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 5: Shut out think of me.

482
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 6: Well, God, it doesn't I mean cross lyric if it's

483
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 6: not one hundred percent already. But I mean, I think

484
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 6: we've talked in the past about how a lot of

485
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 6: times places hold so much power because of the things

486
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 6: that have happened there, because of the history, and the

487
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 6: history feels palpable sometimes when you're in a place and

488
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 6: I just feel like, to me, that's what goes. Hosts

489
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 6: are in a lot of ways for me personally, and

490
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 6: like memories of the loved ones that we have that'll

491
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 6: come over you like a ghost and use this feeling

492
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 6: of being haunted. It can be a positive haunting, but

493
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 6: it's still very much like something external moving through you.

494
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 3: You know.

495
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting, just really, I think this is

496
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: the thing that really caught me in this section. Vin

497
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: Spiritualism lasted pretty much right up until World War two

498
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 2: broke out, right, and I'm feeling our society in this

499
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: thing this neo spiritualism thing or whatever, it is growing

500
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: and growing and growing right before World War three. Bro

501
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: feeling like.

502
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 5: It's true though, because that's something we set up earlier

503
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 5: in this episode. With these ideas, this interrogation of that

504
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 5: which cannot be currently explained by modern science, these ideas

505
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 5: are on a rise when social factors become just so,

506
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 5: a certain unease with the status quo, a certain lack

507
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 5: of stability. It sends people searching for answers. So it

508
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 5: should be no surprise. You know, during the nineteen twenties,

509
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 5: right before the Great Depression, by the way, people were

510
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 5: super gassed about audio technology. I can say something, it'll

511
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 5: be on record. What could go wrong? This will help

512
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 5: us talk to ghosts? Right, Like, what else can this

513
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 5: amazing do? It's a good question.

514
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 6: See even short walk to that, right, even the magical

515
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 6: feeling around. I mean even still to this day, I

516
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 6: don't understand how vinyl record works. I barely understand the

517
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 6: science of capturing you know, vibrating, you know, sound waves.

518
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 3: It's mystical to me.

519
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 6: It feels like capturing a spirit, you know, or like

520
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 6: a soul or something.

521
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 5: It's I would argue it's rediscovering ancient technology, which far

522
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 5: be it for me to sound conspiratorial. But there's some

523
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 5: excellent stonework that is very very old that channels vibrations

524
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 5: just so. It's beautiful stuff. This was very popular. This

525
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 5: was the crypto of its age. The papers of note

526
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 5: were talking to the tycoons of the day. In Scientific American,

527
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 5: there's this interview with Thomas Edison in I think like

528
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 5: the nineteen twenties, and someone asked him there's a good

529
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 5: faith question. They said, well, mister Edison, can your technology,

530
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 5: your amazing audio technology, could it? We know it can

531
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 5: record voices and messages from humans and from I don't

532
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 5: know what's a popular animal back then, giraffes, humans and giraffes.

533
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 5: But what about ghost and Thomas Edison, who is kind

534
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 5: of a pill. Just to be honest, he had a

535
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 5: pretty interesting response. Credit where it's due. We're pulling this

536
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 5: from a book called Edison and the Man Who Made

537
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 5: the Future by Ronald W. Clark. Edison's response is low

538
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 5: key hilarious. Do we have someone who can do like

539
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 5: a silly voice for it?

540
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 6: Oh goodness is Edison probably did have a silly voice.

541
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 6: It is possible to construct an apparatus which will be

542
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 6: so delicate that if there are personalities in another existence,

543
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 6: a sphere, who wished to get in touch with us

544
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 6: in this existence Osphea, this apparatus will at least give

545
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 6: them a better opportunity to express themselves than the tilting

546
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 6: tables and.

547
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 4: Raps and huija boards and mediums and the other crude

548
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 4: methods now purported to be the only means of communication.

549
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 5: Masterclass and acting folks. That's mister Noel Brown.

550
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 3: That's my oscar clip.

551
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: Well, think about the technology we're talking about there, like

552
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham, Bell stuff, Thomas Watson, those early

553
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: inventors and using liquor wid materials and then try like

554
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: trying to figure out, oh, we can get sound through

555
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: this liquid and you know, and the way microphone technology

556
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: has worked. He in this moment, Edison is imagining probably

557
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 2: what we've got now with these the microphones that are

558
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: in our cell phones, and like these it's just a material.

559
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 5: That they're never off.

560
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

561
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've already knew the liquid part of the research

562
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 6: that led to that stuff. But I have seen lots

563
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 6: of like TikTok and Instagram videos where people will take

564
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 6: a table and send vibrations with a speaker that's underneath

565
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 6: the table and like have like, for example, that sort

566
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 6: of magnetic dust kind of stuff, and it will literally, yeah,

567
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 6: move into the shape of the waveform on the table,

568
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 6: and liquid.

569
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 3: Will do the same thing.

570
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 6: If you send sound through it, it'll start to make

571
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 6: ripples in the shape, like concentric circles of like what

572
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 6: it's It's wild.

573
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 5: You're welcome Weja board for your new design WIJA two.

574
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 6: I know.

575
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 5: I mean like this this quote from Edison is massive

576
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 5: because well, first, here's why it's hilarious. Edison himself doesn't

577
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 5: have any strong religious views at the time of this interview,

578
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 5: and pretty much his entire life. He wasn't a jerk

579
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 5: about it. He just said, look, nobody really knows what happens.

580
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 5: But in this interview, this guy is such a salesman

581
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 5: that just in case ghosts are real, he says, I

582
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 5: could do better in Luigia board. You know, I like

583
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 5: like recorded audio. We're we're doing that. What else can

584
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 5: it do? And that's that's crazy. He might not believe

585
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 5: in ghost but he sure believed in making a buck.

586
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 5: He's an always be closing type of guy.

587
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but I get I think he maybe believed, like, yes, yeah,

588
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: this new technology like you could record the unrecordable.

589
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 5: If it doesn't know, he doesn't know what's possible.

590
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 4: It's a wonk of a that's respectable. But I would

591
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 4: argue if he didn't have some seed of belief.

592
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 6: Then doing this would be an utter kind of gross

593
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 6: cash grab because he would know that what he's selling

594
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 6: his snake oil. Because if he doesn't believe that it's possible,

595
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 6: how could he possibly put his belief into a technology

596
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 6: that purports this to be possible.

597
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 5: So he's a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court, or

598
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 5: he's Merlin in that story. He believed his own magic

599
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 5: to a detrimental degree, as history would prove. As far

600
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 5: as we know at least, no matter what he said

601
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 5: in this interview, there is no there is no evidence

602
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 5: that he designed or constructed this hypothetical device. He just

603
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 5: said he would do better than we chparts.

604
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 4: For some reason, I thought there was like a forgotten

605
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 4: patent for this thing.

606
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 5: Later I looked and I looked, and I looked. If

607
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 5: there is one that Edison made, Folks, let us know there's.

608
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 2: A thing here, guys. Okay, we we know, we know

609
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 2: about crystal radios. There's a weird thing. There's a weird

610
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: story with Wayne Williams of all people and creating a

611
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: crystal radio, and like me, that's how I learned what

612
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: a crystal radio was back in the day.

613
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess I don't fully understand the tech behind it.

614
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 6: I know that it's you know, some wiring and some

615
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 6: rudimentary circuit that's then wired up to a crystal of

616
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 6: some kind and that acts as the antenna or what's

617
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 6: the deal exactly?

618
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 5: I know what you're getting for your birthday?

619
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, radio?

620
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, didn't didn't do space camp, didn't build a crystal radio.

621
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 6: But is am I getting that roughly right, Matt?

622
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: Or what are you doing?

623
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: Yes, it's crazy. You can use quartz to work either

624
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 2: as a microphone or as a receiver, which is crazy

625
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: because the crystal itself is the thing that vibrates in

626
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: the way. It's like it's it's crazy and it.

627
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 5: Needs only a little bit of power. Yes, it's like

628
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 5: super costly.

629
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 2: But think about them, the crystal, the concept of quartz

630
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: crystals and how how massive that is in popular culture

631
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: right now, as like a powerful substance that you can

632
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 2: use like crystals and all that stuff, but then actually

633
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: being able to use it to make a microphone. I

634
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 2: think the Courts microphone, like one of the oldest ones,

635
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 2: goes around. I think that's the key to getting ghosts boys.

636
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 6: Just the last thing about this kind of malleability of

637
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 6: text tech and rudimentary things. You can take a telephone

638
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 6: and wire it and reverse and it becomes a speaker

639
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 6: or the same thing like you can turn into a microphone.

640
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 6: All you got to do is switch around some wire,

641
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 6: so like a speaker or a headphone when wire differently

642
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 6: can become a sound capturing device.

643
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 5: You can also use an electrical outlet for Wi Fi, right,

644
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 5: you can you can pass it through, that's right, right,

645
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 5: So it is fascinating and look Edison. When we say

646
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 5: Edison is kind of a pill, we're talking about a

647
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 5: different set of activities on his part. We do know

648
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 5: that we can find no proof of him purposely designing

649
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 5: or patenting some sort of ghost radio. Which is a

650
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 5: super cool phrase.

651
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 3: But exist this says a band or like a rapper

652
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 3: or something.

653
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 5: It's got to I was super disappointed when when I

654
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 5: found out that snack God is a name that was

655
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 5: already taken. I had like six songs that were just

656
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 5: about snacks, and I can't use them because there's a

657
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 5: guy already calling himself snack God. Shout out to you,

658
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 5: well played.

659
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 6: I had a silly idea for a bumper sticker and

660
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 6: be rock out with your calk out like calking guns

661
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 6: for you know, like people in construction would wear these,

662
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 6: And of.

663
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 3: Course you google it and there's t shirts already.

664
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: Nothing.

665
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 5: Well, good for us for trying. I mean, at this point, Edison,

666
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 5: if he's if he's not being like a cynical salesman,

667
00:37:54,120 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 5: he's speaking to the great possibilities, the pioneering frontiers that exist.

668
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 5: At this point, recorded audio still had that new car smell.

669
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 5: Cars still had that figurative new car smell, and cars

670
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 5: themselves would become a vehicle, get it for new iterations

671
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 5: of supernatural stories and tropes. It makes total sense that

672
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 5: humanity would encounter this astonishing technology of recorded audio and say, well,

673
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 5: what else can it do? I mean, that's a good question.

674
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 5: It's a question that people asked when telephones came out.

675
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 5: To your point, now, it's a question people asked when

676
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 5: the telegraph emerged, When television emerged, with online communication today

677
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 5: as well. To your earlier point, Matt, I think it's

678
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 5: fair to say humanity just kind of likes the idea

679
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 5: of a ghost in the machine.

680
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 6: Also a cool techno thriller from the nineties, Ghost in

681
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 6: the Machine, nineteen nineties. The nineteen nineties we were talking about,

682
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 6: like you know, all these movies that happened in the

683
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 6: two thousand that were part of them. But there was

684
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 6: also a bit of a nineties trend for technology based

685
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 6: thrillers like the lawnmower Man stuff.

686
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 5: Virtuosity. Wait, yeah, that was two thousands.

687
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 3: I think I think it was still nineties.

688
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 5: VI.

689
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 4: Virtriciosity was like probably ninety nine, ninety eight.

690
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 5: Nineteen nineties. I'm dating myself by pointing that out.

691
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 3: I got to.

692
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 5: So there there are a lot of people who are

693
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 5: interested in this spiritualism as a movement. To the earlier point,

694
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 5: it declines pretty rapidly, like you were saying, Matt, and

695
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 5: the lead up to in the immediate aftermath of World

696
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 5: War Two. The fascination though with audio technology is a

697
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 5: gateway to the other side of the grave that remains,

698
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 5: and that's where we get to shout out. I thought

699
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 5: I thought we'd love this name. That's where we get

700
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 5: to shout out at American photographer named wait for it,

701
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 5: this is his real thing on his birth certificate. Attila

702
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 5: vaud sees the.

703
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: Hun the third esquire.

704
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 5: That's all you would, dude, you, I feel like this

705
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 5: guy would be really good. Hang if he were still alive.

706
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 5: Probably he built a podcast, Oh he sure did.

707
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

708
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 4: And also you know he's a photographer.

709
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 6: I was just gonna mention briefly, like just the idea

710
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 6: of ghost photographs and capturing auras and stuff.

711
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 3: That's that's a whole other.

712
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 6: Top photography, super super weird and and you know I

713
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 6: can't explain that stuff either.

714
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: Well, Attila had a great idea. Often in photography, one

715
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 2: of the things you're focused on is isolating light, right,

716
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: so like where is light hitting on in this space

717
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: that I'm going to attempt to photograph and where is

718
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 2: it not hitting? And his idea was, well, what if

719
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: I could isolate the sounds rather than the visuals the sounds.

720
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: What if I could create a place where there would

721
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: be where most of the audible sounds that are existing

722
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: an environment go away and I can just hear what's

723
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 2: happening in this tiny little I guess cabinet or booth

724
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: like you said.

725
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 5: Hm, whisper booth.

726
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 6: I forget it's in a research universe or something. But

727
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 6: somewhere in the world there is this room that is

728
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 6: apparently so perfectly quiet that it's it'll make you go insane.

729
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 2: If there's several chambers, is.

730
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 6: I always really cool wood looking room, beautifully designed. But yeah,

731
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 6: I've never been in one, but it sounds like it

732
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 6: would be a trip.

733
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 5: Microsoft has one. I think it's warfield labs. I want

734
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 5: to say, uh, but there, But yeah, these If you

735
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 5: are a human existing, there is a level of background

736
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 5: noise which you must always encounter. When you're in a

737
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 5: room without sound, you begin to hear your own body,

738
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 5: and that's what bothers people. That's like the sound of

739
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 5: your blood moving through your veins right, your pulse, the

740
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 5: clicks in your ears, the little the little dances that

741
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 5: your tongue and your teeth do this.

742
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 2: Well to me, I imagine it being a little bit

743
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 2: like if you're in if you're flying in an airplane

744
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 2: and your ears do that thing right where pressure do

745
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: the pressure It's it's like that ah that it's almost

746
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 2: an out of body thing, like you don't feel as

747
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: though you exist in this plane, on this plane anymore.

748
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 5: Not funny, Matt, I barely made it off that plane.

749
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: It's true. It's true. Some of those people in Alaska

750
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 2: a ar, sorry, everybody, just a bit fell off.

751
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 6: You guys were right by the way it was or

752
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 6: Field Labs. That was exactly the one I was thinking of.

753
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 6: It's these crazy wood extrusion kind of things. It's beautiful

754
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 6: to look at, but it's apparently there's a lot of

755
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 6: think pieces about it because it is kind of thinking

756
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 6: to your point, like all of the sounds that we

757
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 6: take for granted, when you strip them away and we're

758
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 6: left with the actual deafening silence that is just our bodies,

759
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 6: it could probably become overwhelming.

760
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 5: Gunnis World Records calls it the quietest room in the world.

761
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 5: Why Why is a beer manufacturer and a world records

762
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 5: good question.

763
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 6: As a tire manufacturer given out stars for fancy restaurants,

764
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 6: so they know what they did.

765
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 2: Isn't that Frank? Isn't that Frank Guinness? I forget?

766
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 5: Oh, you know, Frank.

767
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: That's sorry. Yeah, And I've been listening to a lot

768
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: of comedy Bang bang lately. I love it when they

769
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: have their holiday stuff that comes down the best OF's

770
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 2: with Paula Tompkins and all that. Sorry, just shout out

771
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: to you guys.

772
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 5: Shout out uh this guy, and shout out Attila, because

773
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 5: he did do a good faith effort nineteen fifty six.

774
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 5: He builds what you would what you would recognize as

775
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 5: a voiceover booth. And to your point, matt it is

776
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 5: pretty good science for the time. He's saying, let's let's

777
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 5: eliminate as many variables as we can and then let

778
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 5: us interrogate analyze what it is that remains. So he

779
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 5: would have someone sit in this booth and he would

780
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 5: sit in it pretty often, and then he would gather

781
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 5: sounds from the external recording device and speaker. And if

782
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 5: you hear him tell it, sorry, if you read him

783
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,919
Speaker 5: write about it, then what you'll see is a continual

784
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 5: sense of curiosity and amazement. At one point in his experiments,

785
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 5: he says, we're getting really weird recordings and there's no

786
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 5: one in the room, So where is the sound coming from?

787
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 5: What's talking into this mic in this insulated cabinet? He

788
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 5: calls it. The first question would be like, well, if

789
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 5: there are ghosts, let's play along at home. What do

790
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 5: the ghosts say? The first messages are revelatory, revelatory, They're

791
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 5: going to change your opinion of the afterlife.

792
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: The first one sounds like this hot dog art hot

793
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 2: dog art.

794
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 6: The way, is it like making art on a hot dog,

795
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 6: like using mustard and ketchup stuff? Or is it exclusively

796
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 6: images of hot dogs done in tasteful fashion?

797
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 5: They never they never explained because upon question maddening there

798
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 5: was a response like, you know, who is this? Who

799
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 5: is this wreath that approaches our weird booth? And they said.

800
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 3: This is G.

801
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 4: I don't have G.

802
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: Christmas and happy Now, Yeah, that's definitely not people down

803
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: the streets.

804
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 4: These were parents.

805
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 6: This is always the part of the twist in the

806
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 6: Agatha Christie story where it was the parrot the whole time.

807
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 5: You know, yeah, this is uh, it's a good question.

808
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 5: Are these ghosts just sending the equivalent of text messages?

809
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 5: I mean, is it is it someone down the street?

810
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 5: Is it a bit of a susceress down the street?

811
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,240
Speaker 2: Can I can I really quickly until you have the story? Okay,

812
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: so old house I used to live in I was

813
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: in the process of preparing it to be sold, so

814
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: moved everything out, did a bunch of painting. It's an

815
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 2: empty skeleton of a house basically right, all wood floors,

816
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 2: all bare walls. I went into the house late one

817
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: night to pick a few things up. I ended up,

818
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 2: I don't know, just feeling squirrely, feeling weird. I ended

819
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: up pulling stuff out of the house, put it in

820
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: my car, went back into the house with all the

821
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 2: lights off, and I went back into the master bedroom

822
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: where I slept for, like, you know, a long time.

823
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: I slept in that room every night for a long time.

824
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 2: And when I walked in, I felt this thing that

825
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 2: you described at the top of this episode, Ben, this

826
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 2: like feeling. I had a sensation. All the lights are off,

827
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: it's very dark in there. I had the sensation that

828
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 2: there was something in the corner of the room. I

829
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: can't explain to you why it is, what it is,

830
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 2: anything like that. I just felt something. So I walked

831
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 2: over to that corner of the room and I stood

832
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: very close to where I was feeling the sensation, and

833
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,439
Speaker 2: I felt the you know, the chills that you get,

834
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 2: the full body chills thing that's like a wave that

835
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 2: goes over you. I felt that happen and I decided

836
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 2: I was going to take my phone and hit the

837
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: voice recorder and lay it in the center of that

838
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 2: room where I felt something and just let it record

839
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 2: for about ten minutes. And I just left the house. Okay,

840
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 2: let it go for ten minutes. Then I came back

841
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: and listened back to it. I didn't hear anything but

842
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 2: the sounds of that room when I just played it

843
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: back on my phone. Right, I took it home, I

844
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: plugg I plugged it into You know, we use Adobe

845
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: audition right for a lot of the production de noise.

846
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 3: They're like trying to separate the spectrum I did.

847
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: I boosted the signal so all of the electric all

848
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: of the electrical impulses that my microphone based picked up

849
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 2: now goes up by like ten twenty decimals.

850
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 6: You should have used the Soma mic. You wouldn't have

851
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 6: had to run any plugins at all.

852
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: But I'm just I'm just getting it something here to

853
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,479
Speaker 2: where I then raised the level of what it actually heard.

854
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 2: Then I reduced the noise a little bit, and I

855
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: heard my neighbor watching television of Thrones. I'm pretty sure.

856
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure

857
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: is Game of.

858
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 5: Thrones, that intense conversations, right, you heard you you basically

859
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 5: used you know, enhancing kind of a technology to here's

860
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 5: something you shouldn't have been able to hear or separate

861
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 5: it out, do you know.

862
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: But but again, like it was, it was my interest

863
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: in this feeling that I had, thinking well what if

864
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: I what if there was something that wanted to communicate

865
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: with me. I attempted these things and realized just through

866
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: my own attempt, oh wait, I'm just picking up stuff

867
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: that's happening outside of where I want to be, which

868
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: I think at Tilli's idea is so great.

869
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 6: Here do you think you might have felt that feeling

870
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 6: just just the Devil's advocate because you were feeling that

871
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 6: emotional thing that I was talking about, that memory, you know,

872
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,720
Speaker 6: and that comes over you and you in a place

873
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 6: that has meaning to you, and then therefore you're like

874
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 6: kind of you're internalizing that and it's sort of represented

875
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 6: by this washing.

876
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 3: Over you kind of.

877
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 6: I mean, I've experienced that before. I just wonder what

878
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 6: you think about that.

879
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 2: Well, look, this is my opinion, guys, but I think

880
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 2: that's what that is kind of what we set up

881
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: at the top here it's a it's a thing where

882
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 2: you want to explore those feelings that are emotional, that

883
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: are spiritual, and we are attempting to find well, what

884
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: is that thing? Is there something else extra that I

885
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 2: can gain from this or that I can explore this more?

886
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 2: And we use the technology for it. And that's what

887
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: I did.

888
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 5: And if you've ever received a text message from a ghost,

889
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 5: we can't wait to read it. Send it to us

890
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 5: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. We're going to take a

891
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 5: brief break for some more voices in your head. We'll

892
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 5: be right back, and we have returned Attila's experiments or

893
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 5: only one example of the ongoing interest and EVP. The

894
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 5: modern iteration of this stuff owes a lot to a

895
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 5: parapsychologist whose name bedevils me. It's Constantine's Raudeeve, Constantine's Raudeev. Anyway,

896
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 5: nineteen seventy one, this guy publishes a book on EVP.

897
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 5: It's called Breakthrough. He's not the first person by any

898
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 5: means to investigate the idea of recorded audio ghost, but

899
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 5: he is the person who popularizes it in the West.

900
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 5: And he also doesn't say that he gets any like

901
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,720
Speaker 5: I feel like this is in his defense. He doesn't

902
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 5: say he gets any great epiphanies or revelations or observations

903
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 5: on the nature of the afterlife. He gets messages instead

904
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 5: that say things like stuff you might hear down the

905
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 5: street to your point, Matt, stuff like I follow you tonight,

906
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 5: please interrupt, or of course, might be Mary Ben. I

907
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 5: don't know what mary Ben means.

908
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: Well, And remember these are all interpretations of people believe

909
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 2: they are hearing rights with audio. If it's garbled at all,

910
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 2: it can like you can have twenty people listen to

911
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: the same piece of mildly garbled audio and you will

912
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 2: get twenty different phrases or sentences.

913
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 5: Which is why bad presidents only do press conferences by helicopters.

914
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 2: But no, but this is very true. Think about some

915
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 2: of the maybe tiktoks or instagram reels that you've seen

916
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: in the past, where it's if you read different words

917
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: while you're hearing audio, you will hear your brain will

918
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: interpret those sounds as different phrases entirely.

919
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 5: And this this phenomenon, all all of these observations lead

920
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 5: folks like Robert Todd Carroll or the Skeptics Dictionary to

921
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 5: respond by say, apparently the dead have very little of

922
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 5: interest to say to us, but the belief continues. You know.

923
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 5: We're talking a little bit off air about a two

924
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 5: thoud thousand and five film, absolute banger to some people

925
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 5: called White Noise, starring Michael Keaton, who you may recognize

926
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 5: as Beetlejuice and Batman Think about It. In the film,

927
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 5: Keaton is a troubled architect. He plays a character named

928
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 5: Jonathan rivers a drift in the world after the disappearance

929
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 5: of his newly pregnant spouse, and so he comes to

930
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,439
Speaker 5: believe that he is able to contact her or hear

931
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 5: from her, at least in via EVP. And the question

932
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 5: is always with EVP. One can hear things or interpret them,

933
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 5: but can one also communicate? Is it a two way ghost?

934
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:49,760
Speaker 5: Radio critics panned it. The audience loved it because people

935
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 5: love patterns so much so that we have to introduce

936
00:52:53,440 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 5: another factor into the explanation of EVP. Paradoliadlia. It's a

937
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 5: fun word to say. It does sound like an indie album.

938
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 5: It's a real thing. If you've ever looked at if

939
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 5: you've ever woken up and there's a pile of clothing

940
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 5: in your bedroom and you think there's someone in the

941
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 5: corner watching you for just a second. You have encountered this.

942
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 5: Your brain told you a thing was there because it

943
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 5: interpreted something.

944
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm going back because if you hear I

945
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 2: follow you tonight. What if we're actually it's not a

946
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: dead person. What if you're actually doing the parallel universe

947
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 2: thing you've gotten overlay and there's just someone who doesn't

948
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,720
Speaker 2: care about you, Robert Todd Carroll. Maybe they actually don't

949
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 2: have anything to say to us because they're just living

950
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 2: their life and we're accidentally picking up on it somehow,

951
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: just saying come on, man, we gotta keep an open

952
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 2: mind about this, rob.

953
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 5: Eves dropping into other universes the nerve.

954
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 6: Maybe accidentally we didn't mean to, but sure, I mean,

955
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 6: but that's also like good fodder for science fiction and

956
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 6: stuff where someone will have this sort of chance, you know,

957
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 6: glimpse through the veil and then get obsessed with trying

958
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 6: to recreate it and harness it in some way, you know,

959
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 6: like and that's what a lot of the you know,

960
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 6: these kind of techno thrillers are about, too, where people

961
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 6: will try to, you know, control the spirit by controlling

962
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 6: the technology, and especially with one more man is about

963
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 6: it's not I guess it's less about the spirit world.

964
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,720
Speaker 6: But there are definitely a bunch of films quote unquote

965
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 6: films in that genre where that's a thing is the

966
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 6: idea of trying to play god, you know, by using

967
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 6: technology to breach the spirit world in some way.

968
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 3: You know.

969
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 2: But but yeah, let's get back to where you're talking about there, Ben,

970
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 2: It's uh, it's about interpretation, right, yeah.

971
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 5: In the audio as well as the visual sphere. You know.

972
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 5: This is why photographs gain so much attention in popular culture.

973
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 5: The picture of the famous face on Mars, remember that

974
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 5: one where it was in the Weekly World News. It's

975
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 5: on so many blogs.

976
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 2: It was a dang face. Okay, I don't care what

977
00:54:59,360 --> 00:54:59,919
Speaker 2: anybody eat.

978
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 5: Mars is a single entity. We found its face, like.

979
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 4: The man in the Moon.

980
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 3: I don't know about the Mars man.

981
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 2: It's it's like a I don't know, a dome that

982
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 2: looks like a face. It looks like a giant sculpture

983
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 2: that you can see from a telescope on Earth, a

984
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 2: specific ale.

985
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 5: It looks a lot like a face.

986
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 3: The monolith, it's the two thousand and one monolith.

987
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 2: No, no, but but it was proven that well, it

988
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 2: was shown that it really was about shadows and the

989
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 2: human interpretation of shadows, and then us are pattern making thing, right,

990
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 2: that's what this phenomenon is about.

991
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:43,479
Speaker 5: I mean, if you believe telescopes and scientists, but what.

992
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 2: It was it earlier Lotti da poppy Cock, man, I

993
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 2: want to hear from no scientists. They're always lying to us,

994
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 2: confusing exist.

995
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 5: I like, I don't know how magnets work, and in

996
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 5: the same sentence, I reject the explanation of anyone who

997
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 5: is an expert.

998
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 4: I'm that same Ben, I feel the same way.

999
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 2: We got a great voicemail and I forgive me, I

1000
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 2: cannot remember the name you gave yourself. Awesome person that

1001
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 2: called in with a very positive message to us about

1002
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 2: that song, like how it's actually about connection and love

1003
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 2: and the human experience, and it's not actually about how

1004
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: magnets work.

1005
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 3: I don't think we're.

1006
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 4: Actually ranging on them though, it's mainly just that it exists.

1007
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 3: Is a delight for the soul. You know.

1008
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 2: The person person was very positive and not even negative

1009
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 2: towards us, just like it really is a song about togetherness.

1010
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 5: Honestly that is super wholesome, Like like the if you

1011
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 5: check out our show Ridiculous History, where where in some

1012
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 5: of this conversation and these references originate, we are we

1013
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 5: are talking as fans of the Jugglo experience and community,

1014
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 5: or fans of the family. They would say the idea though,

1015
00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 5: that perception plays such a key role in things. This

1016
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 5: idea is common to every single human experience. The way

1017
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 5: you think a sandwich taste or the way you think

1018
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 5: a donut taste is influenced by the environment in which

1019
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 5: you consume that donut and how you were feeling before

1020
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 5: it took the first bite. Why would another sensory experience

1021
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 5: be any different.

1022
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 3: It's true.

1023
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 6: It's like, you know, you've talked on the show often

1024
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 6: a bit about how you don't perceive color, and it's

1025
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 6: sort of like trying to describe a color to somebody

1026
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 6: you know who hasn't perceived it.

1027
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 3: It's completely subjectives.

1028
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 6: When you start to try to do that, you realize

1029
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 6: how impossible it. It's described blue to somebody, or to

1030
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 6: describe a taste, you can describe it based on common

1031
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 6: ingredients or stuff like that, but you can't really describe

1032
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 6: your actual experience of it, you know, at all.

1033
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 5: And for the same reason it is if we're being honest,

1034
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 5: it is technically impossible to prove a mundane cause for

1035
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 5: every single purported EVP experience throughout history. Scientists will say

1036
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 5: they can categorize things in a couple of different buckets,

1037
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 5: like interference from wireless communication. That's true, it's much more

1038
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 5: commonplace than it was in the time of the spiritualist,

1039
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 5: even in Attila's time or Constantine's time, like CB radios, AMFM, smartphones.

1040
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 5: And then there are things like modulation, ion is fair reducting.

1041
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 5: There are scientific explanations, but those scientific explanations we could

1042
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 5: also argue they missed the mark a bit, because the

1043
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 5: real question is what does the experience of EVP tell

1044
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 5: us about ourselves as the entities experiencing that. That's the

1045
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 5: real question. It's kind of like how taro is an

1046
00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 5: effective diagnostic tool. Magical ritual can be seen as ritualized psychology,

1047
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 5: you know, like the or weaponized psychology as well. I

1048
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 5: think Thomas Edison is correct, it's kind of EVP can

1049
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 5: also be seen as a scrying device, wijaboard, crystal ball,

1050
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 5: black mirror. I don't know, auditory ruorschack test is that dismissive?

1051
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 2: I don't want to think, well, yeah, it is about yeah,

1052
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 2: it's all about interpretation. What we need is a mini

1053
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 2: anichoic chamber that is some kind of mobile device that

1054
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 2: can be that has a single microphone in the center

1055
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 2: of it. It's about the size of oh, I don't know, guys,

1056
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: like a refrigerator box or small small like a mini

1057
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 2: fridge box.

1058
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 5: Right, anything but the metric system.

1059
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 2: Well, but just imagine a box that is sizable but

1060
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 2: fairly small, that has a lot of that stuff inside

1061
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 2: of it that were you were describing their noll for

1062
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 2: the antichoic chamber, and has a microphone inside of it,

1063
00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 2: and it's completely soundproof. You cannot hear any sounds outside

1064
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 2: that thing. You take it and you place it in

1065
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 2: places that are supposedly haunted or have a lot of

1066
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 2: you know, their way activity. Then you hold the seance

1067
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 2: even right next to it, or you ask questions, you

1068
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 2: get what's what's his name? To be like come on,

1069
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 2: just go bro, come on bro, no ghost grow Christ

1070
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 2: get that dude, and just like ye, but the thing,

1071
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 2: the microphone inside the end mini anaco chamber can't hear him,

1072
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 2: and then if anything gets recorded inside that box, you'll

1073
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 2: know that some other being reached inside that thing and

1074
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 2: manipulated the condenser.

1075
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 3: MIC would be a baseline test.

1076
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 6: I think you're right there, but again, it's all about

1077
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 6: set and setting, and how can you ever assume that

1078
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 6: these things, if legitimate, are ever happening in.

1079
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 4: Location based ways?

1080
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:48,959
Speaker 3: You know you it would be.

1081
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 6: Like you can wait there, No, no, I see what

1082
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 6: you're saying, Matt. You don't want to be able to

1083
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 6: move this thing around, right, you'd want to like, yeah,

1084
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 6: try it?

1085
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 3: Okay, got it?

1086
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 4: Because I was thinking.

1087
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 6: About how can I build one of these in my shed?

1088
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 3: It it could be I don't know a studios have a.

1089
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 5: Cool guys, let's make a hydro cod.

1090
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 4: Hydro coic.

1091
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 3: And kok? Sorry, got it?

1092
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 5: We got We've got Like I think this is where

1093
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 5: we we reach. Uh, we reach a turning point in

1094
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 5: our exploration, folks. Everything we've assembled shows that we cannot

1095
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 5: logically dismiss EVP experiences out of hand, which means we

1096
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 5: want to hear your own takes on this. Email us directly,

1097
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 5: any recordings you have, Write your tales of unexplained voices,

1098
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 5: let us know what you see, let us know how

1099
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 5: technology h emergent social media as well becomes a vehicle

1100
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 5: for future paranormal experiences and let us know what you

1101
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 5: think of the future of EVP. We can't wait to

1102
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 5: hear from you, whether living, dead or somewhere beyond. We

1103
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 5: try to be easy to find online.

1104
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 6: That's somebody You can find us at the handlic Conspiracy Stuff,

1105
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 6: where we exist on YouTube, Facebook and x FKA Twitter.

1106
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 6: We are also a conspiracy stuff show on Instagram and TikTok.

1107
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 2: Give us a call. Our number is one eight three

1108
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 2: three st d WYTK. You've got three minutes to leave

1109
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 2: a voicemail. Give yourself a cool nickname and tell us

1110
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 2: your story. Tell us all about that EVP you recorded,

1111
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 2: and once you're done recording it, let us know if

1112
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 2: we can use that recording on the air. Hey, and

1113
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 2: if you've got a recording file, why not send it

1114
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 2: to us.

1115
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 5: We are the people who read every email we get

1116
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 5: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1117
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1118
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1119
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.