Speaker 1: It's the Son of a Butcher podcast, you know the drill.
Speaker 1: We come to you every Wednesday. I'm your host, Claude Harmon.
Speaker 1: This week's guest someone that I've wanted to get on
Speaker 1: the pod for quite some time and we finally got
Speaker 1: it done with the end of the year. Joe Scoverin,
Speaker 1: longtime caddy for Ricky Fowler, but now caddie's for one
Speaker 1: of the rising superstars on the PGA Tour. Tom Kim,
Speaker 1: I think Joe s govern Listen, I'm biased. I had
Speaker 1: a ringside seat to watch the work that Joe and
Speaker 1: Ricky Fowler did for a number of years, and I
Speaker 1: just think he's one of the best in the business.
Speaker 1: I love the way he presents information. He was a
Speaker 1: good player, he played college golf, he was an assistant
Speaker 1: college golf coach. And to me, Joe Scoverin is kind
Speaker 1: of if you look at the old school caddies from
Speaker 1: the back in the day of the Nicholas, the Palmer,
Speaker 1: the player. You look at those and then you kind
Speaker 1: of looked at the way caddy and kind of evolved
Speaker 1: in that kind of eighties and nineties, and you know,
Speaker 1: to me, Joe scovern is the epitome of what a
Speaker 1: modern caddy is. He was a good player, he played competitively,
Speaker 1: he coached college golf, and he has a very good
Speaker 1: understanding as to what is happening on the golf course,
Speaker 1: and we kind of take a deep dive into some
Speaker 1: of the things. There's some great clips on social where
Speaker 1: Joe and Tom kim are talking through shots on the
Speaker 1: golf course when we talk about that. So I'm super
Speaker 1: excited for everyone to get to listen to Joe Scovern
Speaker 1: my guest today. If there is a better caddy in
Speaker 1: the professional game, I don't know who it is. Scoviy.
Speaker 1: We've been trying to get this for a while. The
Speaker 1: season's ended now, so good to talk to you. Hell
Speaker 1: of a year for your boy, Tom kim Man. This
Speaker 1: kid's a stud man. He's he's got something. What's it
Speaker 1: been like the last couple of years caddy in for him?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you spent so many years with Ricky Fowler,
Speaker 1: and then to get a young player at this stage
Speaker 1: of his life and his career from a caddy standpoint,
Speaker 1: it's got to be really exciting for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a lot of fun for me, you know,
Speaker 2: after thirteen years with rick and so many good years
Speaker 2: and the career ad and the relationship we had, getting
Speaker 2: to start a new relationship with Tom get to know him,
Speaker 2: you know, twenty years old when I started with him.
Speaker 2: So just seeing that fire he's got, and you know
Speaker 2: how Greeny was around the tour and learning so many things.
Speaker 2: That's been fun for my role to kind of change
Speaker 2: over the last year and we both really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Joe, You've I mean, obviously you catty for Ricky Fowler.
Speaker 1: He's been one of the best players in the game
Speaker 1: for you know, a long time now. But because when
Speaker 1: you caddy for a guy like Ricky Fowler, you guys
Speaker 1: play with the best players in the world. So when
Speaker 1: a guy like Tom Kim calls you and stuff, you've
Speaker 1: just finished with Ricky, you're trying to figure out that
Speaker 1: next phase of your life and your career. You can
Speaker 1: kind of given what you and Ricky did and given
Speaker 1: the the caddy that everybody knows you are, you got
Speaker 1: to pick and choose anyone that you want to canty for.
Speaker 1: But there aren't a lot of great players to get
Speaker 1: that call because they've all got great caddies as well.
Speaker 1: So talk me through the process of how this came about.
Speaker 1: Did his agent call you? Did he call you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a little bit different. I'd never experienced it.
Speaker 2: You know, I'd worked for one guy the whole time
Speaker 2: I've been out there, and you know, after Rick and
Speaker 2: I split, I took the playoffs off. Took a little
Speaker 2: bit of time, and yeah, Tom's agent reached out first
Speaker 2: once he had heard the news. I've known Ben Harrison
Speaker 2: for a long time and he reached out, and then
Speaker 2: Tom reached out, and you know, I told him I
Speaker 2: was taking a little bit of time, just kind of
Speaker 2: figuring out what I was going to do, what was
Speaker 2: going on, And we chatted a couple of times after that,
Speaker 2: and we decided to do a four week trial, which
Speaker 2: is pretty typical in the in the caddy player world
Speaker 2: that you know, you're trying it out to make sure
Speaker 2: it's a fit. And kind of knew that first week
Speaker 2: at the President's Cup then it was going to be
Speaker 2: a fit, and you know, kind of took off running.
Speaker 2: He had a great President's Cup and then he won
Speaker 2: the first individual event that I worked for him, and
Speaker 2: it was kind of offul the races from there, and.
Speaker 1: You don't get any You don't get a better start
Speaker 1: than that, do you. I mean, first tournament is the
Speaker 1: President's Cup. He plays like a stud. He gets a
Speaker 1: big kind of moment in that kind of arena to
Speaker 1: where he holds a pot and gets to kind of
Speaker 1: you know, I thought that was kind of his coming
Speaker 1: out party, right for everybody to kind of see this
Speaker 1: really young kid who's just got this. He has this thing. Scotty.
Speaker 1: I met him a couple of years ago, twenty two.
Speaker 1: I met him in Saudi Arabia at the Saudi International
Speaker 1: when he was still playing the Asian Tour, and you know,
Speaker 1: he was bouncing around. He was a globe trotter. I
Speaker 1: don't think a lot of people realize how much Tom
Speaker 1: kind of bounced around all the various tours. And he
Speaker 1: got paired with DJ the first two rounds. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily scaviy his game that impressed me the most.
Speaker 1: It was the way he kind of handled that situation
Speaker 1: of being a relative nobody at that point. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's I mean, you got to know a lot about
Speaker 1: golf to know that the kids got potential. But I
Speaker 1: just thought the way that he acted, and you know,
Speaker 1: when we're on the golf course. We're not able as coaches.
Speaker 1: We're not inside the rope, so we can't really see.
Speaker 1: But I just was watching the way that he was
Speaker 1: interacting with a guy like DJ, who he doesn't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, DJ is one of the bona fide superstars
Speaker 1: and competitive professional golf, and he didn't seem phased by
Speaker 1: it at all. And I asked, you know, AJ afterwards
Speaker 1: he was like, man, that kid's really cool. I really
Speaker 1: like him, and so I immediately messaged Trevor Immlman and said,
Speaker 1: Tom Kim needs to be on your radar for the
Speaker 1: President's Cup and he was like, you know, I've heard
Speaker 1: about him. He's like I mean, I was like, dude,
Speaker 1: I just watched him play two days with DJ, and
Speaker 1: this kid doesn't look like he's phased at all. I said,
Speaker 1: you need to keep him on your radar. And then
Speaker 1: obviously the stars align and he makes the President's Cup
Speaker 1: team has a great finish. When you first caddied for him,
Speaker 1: obviously you're cautying for him in a President's Cup, which
Speaker 1: is different, but like, we're in the same boat, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're hired guns. And when players ask us
Speaker 1: to either coach them or canty for them. You kind
Speaker 1: of have an idea of what you've seen and what
Speaker 1: you know. So when you saw Tom up close and
Speaker 1: spent some time with him early Scotvey, what did you
Speaker 1: see and what did you like?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So, I mean the obvious stuff physically is how streitty
Speaker 2: is it? How good of an iron player he was?
Speaker 2: That got my attention right away. You know, the kid
Speaker 2: can hit a two iron, you know, on a rope.
Speaker 2: And then the thing personality wise, like you're talking about,
Speaker 2: he had a maturity level in a way competing that
Speaker 2: I thought was rare in a twenty year old and
Speaker 2: he you know, even though he's twenty, he is kind
Speaker 2: of a veteran of professional golf, not the PGA tour,
Speaker 2: but you know it'd been a bro for almost five
Speaker 2: years at that point, travel that big world like you mentioned.
Speaker 1: I mean the Asian those Asian players, they a lot
Speaker 1: of them. They turn pro really really early, especially you
Speaker 1: know the women do it and now we're starting to
Speaker 1: see some of the guys do it as well. So
Speaker 1: when you turn pro that early, you're in a professional
Speaker 1: environment and an adult environment, but you're still young. And
Speaker 1: we we say that a lot, right, I mean, We
Speaker 1: look at young kids and we say, you know, he's
Speaker 1: still a kid, He's still got a lot to learn.
Speaker 1: But the stage there, it's I always think it's crazy.
Speaker 1: And you and I have talked about this before, Joe.
Speaker 1: I don't think people realize that the PGA Tour is
Speaker 1: the NFL.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: They don't realize that that's how good the players are
Speaker 1: that play on the PGA Tour, Right. You know, Dustin
Speaker 1: Johnson is Aaron Rodgers, right, Justin Thomas is James hard
Speaker 1: The players that you were watching are the superstars of
Speaker 1: the other sports. But because we all play golf, it
Speaker 1: somewhat seems normalized.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You don't really think of it like the NFL. Right,
Speaker 1: But pro golf is at the PGA Tour level, that's
Speaker 1: the best of the best. So when you get a
Speaker 1: young kid like Tom who he does have a childlike
Speaker 1: wonder and kind of joy about him, but he is
Speaker 1: kind of mature because he's been playing all over the
Speaker 1: world and been playing professional golf for so long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And that was the thing, is maturity, his charisma.
Speaker 2: That that was the thing that kind of caught me
Speaker 2: off guard. Is you know, when the celebrations and all
Speaker 2: that I didn't know. You know, I had barely met him,
Speaker 2: so I didn't know that personality was in there, And
Speaker 2: that was kind of fun to see that and see
Speaker 2: how the crowd responded to him and how he was
Speaker 2: kind of the he was kind of emotional leader of
Speaker 2: that team and kind of got things going and you know,
Speaker 2: stepped right into that role.
Speaker 3: And yeah, just a combination of all those things.
Speaker 2: I think how long he had played, but how new
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour was to him, and the excitement level
Speaker 2: and that he's coming off that win at Windham and
Speaker 2: you know, got his tour card now and feel very
Speaker 2: good about himself and the games good, just all of
Speaker 2: it kind of mixing and having the President's Cup he did.
Speaker 2: Definitely caught me a little off guard, and I wasn't
Speaker 2: expecting that so quick.
Speaker 1: We've seen this year lud big Olberg. I mean, comes
Speaker 1: out of college, you played college golf. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: a huge fan of the US college system as you are.
Speaker 1: You were an assistant coach as well. But there are
Speaker 1: players like Rory, like Tommy Fleetwood that don't go the
Speaker 1: college route, that go the Tom Kim route. They turned
Speaker 1: pro early. They travel all over the world. What do
Speaker 1: you think that benefit is to kid like Tom? And
Speaker 1: how is what he's done different than what we're seeing.
Speaker 1: You know, these these studs that are in PGA tour,
Speaker 1: you now Gordon Sargent, but Ludvig Algwrig. I mean I've
Speaker 1: been saying, and you and I have talked about this
Speaker 1: as well. These kids come out and there is no fear.
Speaker 1: They come out and they expect to win. And you've
Speaker 1: been around long enough, Scotty. You know, I go back
Speaker 1: to my dad when he played the tour. You had
Speaker 1: to be an apprentice on tour, right, You had to
Speaker 1: put your two three years in, You had to learn
Speaker 1: how to win, You had to get in contention. And
Speaker 1: I think in the last ten years really kind of
Speaker 1: when Jordan came out of Texas, it was just I
Speaker 1: don't give a shit. I'm good. I was good in college.
Speaker 1: We saw that with Hovey, we saw that with Morikawa,
Speaker 1: we saw that with Matt Wolfe. The college kids that
Speaker 1: come out now are different thinkers. And Tom is part
Speaker 1: of this other group of young players that have traveled
Speaker 1: all over the world and turned pro early and played
Speaker 1: in a bunch of different conditions. Do you think that
Speaker 1: has been something that is offset the fact that he
Speaker 1: didn't go to college.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like you said, I agree with everything
Speaker 2: you're saying about. These guys are so ready so quickly
Speaker 2: now right, and you see him with the golf tournaments
Speaker 2: they're winning and what they're doing. I think the one
Speaker 2: difference with him is, you know, he's been making a
Speaker 2: living playing golf since he was sixteen. He was used
Speaker 2: to the pressure of that. He's lived in different countries,
Speaker 2: He's traveled around the world. Like you said, you know,
Speaker 2: you saw him in Saudi, he'd been to Dubai before
Speaker 2: this last week when we went. He's been to all
Speaker 2: these places. He's played in all these different countries. He's
Speaker 2: played against grown men for all this time. So I
Speaker 2: think for him that's where the difference is is we
Speaker 2: get our guys so ready with how good the college
Speaker 2: system is. But he was already used to playing against
Speaker 2: grown men and playing for a living, and so I
Speaker 2: think the travel, being able to handle all that stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, different types of food, hotels, all these places,
Speaker 2: it didn't really phase him because he'd been to all
Speaker 2: these other countries. It's a lot easier to travel within
Speaker 2: the US city to city than it is going from
Speaker 2: country to country and different money, different languages, all these things,
Speaker 2: and he'd already been through all that.
Speaker 1: What do you feel like are some things that he
Speaker 1: does really well that maybe everyone listening doesn't know? And
Speaker 1: where do you feel like he can make improvements and
Speaker 1: get better?
Speaker 3: Yeah? He's first of all.
Speaker 2: He's so he's so good about taking constructive criticism and
Speaker 2: wanting to get better and wanting you to tell him,
Speaker 2: like what do I need to get better at? He
Speaker 2: kind of like begs you for it, like what do
Speaker 2: you think wasn't there this week?
Speaker 3: And sometimes I'm like, hey.
Speaker 2: Man, it was awfully good, Like you're good, You're fine.
Speaker 2: I mean he was asking me what I thought his
Speaker 2: weakness was in Vegas after we won a few weeks ago,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, hey, you want the let's just enjoy
Speaker 2: this for a few days. But I think his biggest strength,
Speaker 2: like rather than the physical skills, is his work ethic,
Speaker 2: his ability to get better, and his ability to understand
Speaker 2: how to get better, how to improve, how to put
Speaker 2: the time in and not just wasting hours out there.
Speaker 2: He's a very good practicer, gets a lot out of it,
Speaker 2: and he's he brings a focus and an intensity like
Speaker 2: every day brings a tournament intensity on Monday and Tuesday,
Speaker 2: and when he's hitting balls, it's and you just don't
Speaker 2: see that a lot, right guys kind of have they have,
Speaker 2: you know, gears right like you kind of I'm gonna
Speaker 2: go hit a few balls today, I'm gonna do this,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do that, and then you know, you turn
Speaker 2: it into tournament gear.
Speaker 3: He's tournament gear all the time.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a great trait to have, and
Speaker 2: he plays in that mindset every round that he plays.
Speaker 1: You can get I mean you've been out there a
Speaker 1: long time, Scotty. You can get as a rookie. You
Speaker 1: can get lost on tour. You can start going to
Speaker 1: the equipment trucks every week and try and stuff. You
Speaker 1: can be cycling through caddies. You once you get to
Speaker 1: the PGA tour, you have access to things that you
Speaker 1: don't have access to anywhere else in the world. Right,
Speaker 1: you have access to tour trucks every single day. You
Speaker 1: can mess with your equipment seven days a week. You
Speaker 1: can mess around with caddies. You can go get coaches,
Speaker 1: you can go get players, and we have seen players
Speaker 1: that you can see sometimes get out on tour and
Speaker 1: they get a little bit lost there. They don't know
Speaker 1: how to set a schedule. So I think what you
Speaker 1: said there is really really important for a young rookie
Speaker 1: to have the maturity of one. I want to get better,
Speaker 1: I want to listen, but I am organized when I'm
Speaker 1: at tournaments and I can get my work done.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. And he had a little lull in there where.
Speaker 2: He was really frustrated and the patients was leaving, and
Speaker 2: you know, we had a lot of talks about you know, hey,
Speaker 2: this is this is golf works, right, and this is
Speaker 2: what goes on and you're playing with the big boys
Speaker 2: now and playing Vegas and that golf course and that
Speaker 2: field compared to Memorial against that field on that golf course,
Speaker 2: or two different things, right, And there's steps, and I
Speaker 2: think he wanted to kind of fast forward through the
Speaker 2: steps a little bit for a little while, and then
Speaker 2: he took a step back, realized where it was at,
Speaker 2: and then went had a great summer. And his answer
Speaker 2: to everything is work harder, work harder, work harder, And
Speaker 2: so he's not scared to put the work in.
Speaker 1: I think I know the answer, but I'd be interested
Speaker 1: to hear your version of it. How important in a
Speaker 1: player caddy relationship is it to get a win early
Speaker 1: and what do you feel like that does for a
Speaker 1: new relationship for you and Tom To get a win
Speaker 1: in the fall after having kind of a breakout at
Speaker 1: the President's Cup, but he gets his first big win
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour, What do you feel like that's
Speaker 1: done for your guys' relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think just those first two weeks were huge
Speaker 2: for us, the fact that he had so much success
Speaker 2: at the President's Cup and then went and won with
Speaker 2: no bogeys at Vegas. And I think it probably gave
Speaker 2: me credibility to where there was a trust factor with
Speaker 2: me and what I had to say and that I
Speaker 2: could do my job at that level. And I think
Speaker 2: so that was huge to get that early, because if
Speaker 2: he don't get success early, then maybe he's thinking something differently.
Speaker 2: He had won with his other guy, you know, and
Speaker 2: did I make the right choice?
Speaker 3: Is this going to work?
Speaker 2: And I think it just kind of instantly made things
Speaker 2: to where there was a trust factor that we were
Speaker 2: able to speak freely with each other, communicate and he
Speaker 2: would take what I had to say and you know,
Speaker 2: listen to it and decide if he was going to
Speaker 2: do it or not.
Speaker 3: And so I think it was really important early on.
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Speaker 1: your daily health and fitness regiment. There were some great
Speaker 1: social clips, Joe, of some of the talks that you
Speaker 1: guys went through, specifically out in Vegas that first week.
Speaker 1: There was one that went, you know, viral basically on
Speaker 1: social But I think what it illustrated was what it
Speaker 1: is to be a great caddy at the tour level,
Speaker 1: and that is why I I'm not joking. I think
Speaker 1: you're easily one of the top two or three best
Speaker 1: caddies on the planet. But that interaction that everybody got
Speaker 1: to see where you're standing there, you guys, so set
Speaker 1: that it was. I think it was on one of
Speaker 1: the Was it on the par five where you were
Speaker 1: trying to talk him into? So set that situation up.
Speaker 1: If if everybody listening hasn't seen that, you can go
Speaker 1: back in and find this on on social But talk
Speaker 1: us through the situation. It was on the front nine, right,
Speaker 1: was it? Nine?
Speaker 3: Nine? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, so nine you guys are finishing, and talk us
Speaker 1: through the situation of what you were trying to get across.
Speaker 1: What were the numbers and what in your head, Joe
Speaker 1: you're trying to say to the player in that moment.
Speaker 1: So talk us through. Set us up. So nine's a
Speaker 1: par five? How far is nine out in Vegas?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean it's usually a driver.
Speaker 2: I don't know the exact yardage on that hole, but
Speaker 2: you know, the long hitters can get a mid iron
Speaker 2: end sometimes you know, six seven iron if it's the
Speaker 2: right wind. The shorter hitters we're going to be coming
Speaker 2: in with three wood or a long iron, and then
Speaker 2: it's all kind of depends on how firm it is
Speaker 2: out there and what winds You've gotten everything there.
Speaker 3: But he'd hit it just in the right ruff.
Speaker 2: That ball sneak into the right ruff very easily, and
Speaker 2: he had a jumper lie.
Speaker 3: So it's like, how's this thing going to come out?
Speaker 3: What's going to go on?
Speaker 2: And basically our debate was about which club was the
Speaker 2: right one to hit in there, not necessarily to hit
Speaker 2: it close to the hole, but to take the trouble
Speaker 2: out of play. And so there was a bunker that
Speaker 2: I was worried about that if this thing came out
Speaker 2: a certain way, that that bunker's in play. And so
Speaker 2: my whole case with him was trying to get him
Speaker 2: into the other club so that that bunker was out
Speaker 2: of play because we could play from all the other spots.
Speaker 2: And so we kind of went back and forth on
Speaker 2: it and ended up, you know, having this audio that
Speaker 2: everybody kind of ran with, and he ended up going
Speaker 2: with the one we talked about, and then he made
Speaker 2: some comment about it being the right one or whatever,
Speaker 2: and that got on there. It's everybody kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: made it the thing with the Instagram and everything else,
Speaker 2: but it's really that's what we're doing all the time, right.
Speaker 2: It's like no one's doing anything that drastic. It's but
Speaker 2: it's like, well, if this ball comes out this way
Speaker 2: or does this? And the players worried about hitting the
Speaker 2: golf shot right, so they're thinking what's the perfect shot,
Speaker 2: what's the right thing? I was thinking, Okay, we're coming
Speaker 2: from the rough, this lies unpredictable. What's going to take
Speaker 2: the biggest problem out of play? And that's all I
Speaker 2: was trying to do.
Speaker 1: I think so many players joke because I mean I
Speaker 1: see so many players, and it's a constant theme that
Speaker 1: I talk to not only to the players, but also
Speaker 1: on the podcast. This con I think professional golf is
Speaker 1: the balance between talent and execution, because by the time
Speaker 1: you get to the show, right, by the time you
Speaker 1: get to the PGA Tour, everybody is good, right, and
Speaker 1: you were playing against the best, right, So everybody, the
Speaker 1: majority of the people that that make it to the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour were really good amateurs. They were really good juniors,
Speaker 1: they were really good high school players, they were great
Speaker 1: in college. So by the time you get to the show,
Speaker 1: everybody's good. And I think what you were trying to
Speaker 1: talk to them about is something that I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't think about. Is you're talking about
Speaker 1: how can we take the trouble out of play. And
Speaker 1: I think I'd love to get you to expand on this.
Speaker 1: How much do you think of yourself as a mentor,
Speaker 1: as someone that gives information. I mean, you've always struck
Speaker 1: me as a type of caddy that you're not going
Speaker 1: to full blown give your opinion constantly, but you're going
Speaker 1: to give your opinion when first and foremost you feel
Speaker 1: like you need to do it. But you're also going
Speaker 1: to wait to give your opinion when you're asked for it,
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of times it's just easy
Speaker 1: to constantly just give your opinion, give your opinion, and
Speaker 1: sometimes players can get overloaded with that, right, And so
Speaker 1: how do you as a as a as a as
Speaker 1: a caddy balance that between how much information do I
Speaker 1: give the player? How much is it his decision? How
Speaker 1: much is it our decision? Because obviously we've heard, you know,
Speaker 1: we've seen Phil and Bones back in the day where
Speaker 1: Phil i'membus that great one at TPC where Phil hit
Speaker 1: this shot and he's like, I didn't want to tell
Speaker 1: you what I was doing. Michael Greller and Jordan they
Speaker 1: have their vetos to where they can veto clubs, but
Speaker 1: what's been your style in what do you feel like
Speaker 1: your role is from an information standpoint to give to
Speaker 1: the player.
Speaker 2: So what you said is exactly right, and it depends
Speaker 2: on the player and what they want, what their personality is,
Speaker 2: and how they're going to play their best. So I've
Speaker 2: had two different roles, Like even with rick the role
Speaker 2: kind of changed along the way as he matured as
Speaker 2: a golfer, as he had played more of the golf courses,
Speaker 2: as I'm matured as a caddy, and you kind of
Speaker 2: find your way of doing things and maybe that changes
Speaker 2: over the years. And then with Tom it's been a
Speaker 2: very big change because I went from a guy that
Speaker 2: had seen all the golf courses ten, twelve, thirteen times,
Speaker 2: you know, understands tour conditions, you know Ricky's so he's
Speaker 2: almost like a golf savant in the way that Ricky
Speaker 2: plays and he just understands lies and how to hit
Speaker 2: shots and play that way. And then Tom comes in
Speaker 2: and his style is a little bit more of a lab.
Speaker 2: Like I kind of though it like he's playing in
Speaker 2: a lab and like it's like I hit it here,
Speaker 2: I hit it this far, this is what I do,
Speaker 2: this is how it goes, but he hadn't seen these
Speaker 2: conditions yet, he hadn't seen firmer conditions, he hadn't seen
Speaker 2: tour style golf courses. And so my role has expanded
Speaker 2: with that of like, hey, okay, this is where we're
Speaker 2: trying to land at, this is what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2: Let's kind of, you know, let's look at this and
Speaker 2: go here. And so there's a little bit more of
Speaker 2: a forceful nature because that's what he wants from me too,
Speaker 2: and he gave me the reins to do that. So
Speaker 2: there's a little bit more of that role now than
Speaker 2: what I had with Rick, Whereas with Rick it was
Speaker 2: more of a hey, ask my opinion. I'm gonna give it,
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna give it very confidently, but I'm not
Speaker 2: just going to go straight into that with him, like
Speaker 2: he said. With Tom, there was a little bit more,
Speaker 2: especially early on, going straight into that because that's that
Speaker 2: was my role. And now even as Tom's matured, I
Speaker 2: noticed a big difference at Vegas this year. You know,
Speaker 2: I was talking him off pins like the pins that
Speaker 2: you don't go at, the pins that we're tough. The
Speaker 2: first time I had to talk him off those and
Speaker 2: I had to work hard to talk him off of them.
Speaker 3: This time.
Speaker 2: He came down the stretch and he's like, we're going
Speaker 2: twenty feet left right. Yep, I'm going twenty feet right right,
Speaker 2: and like he was doing it himself.
Speaker 3: He didn't need me to do it.
Speaker 1: I don't think everyone listening Joe and We've had story.
Speaker 1: I keep trying to bring these stories to the people listening,
Speaker 1: But I don't think the average golfer realizes how many
Speaker 1: pins around. You guys aren't even messing with. I think
Speaker 1: everybody thinks that you get to professional golf, you're the
Speaker 1: best players in the world. You have the most talent,
Speaker 1: you have the most control, so you basically are just
Speaker 1: firing at every flag from the jump right from Thursday,
Speaker 1: it's just I hit it every flag, and I talk
Speaker 1: about what to you are green light pins, what to
Speaker 1: you are kind of not green light pins, and what
Speaker 1: to you are red light pins. We don't mess with
Speaker 1: these peer in your head as a caddy. Now, obviously
Speaker 1: it's player dependent because obviously the best players in the
Speaker 1: world they can do anything right these guys. You know,
Speaker 1: my dad used to say back in the day Mark Calcavecchia,
Speaker 1: you could put a flag in the middle of the
Speaker 1: ocean on a buoy in Calcavecia, be aim and write
Speaker 1: at it right. So these guys have the talent and
Speaker 1: the confidence and the skills to do it. But for you,
Speaker 1: as a caddy over the years that you've been doing this,
Speaker 1: what to you is green light? What to you is Okay,
Speaker 1: we don't need to aim at this and we're just
Speaker 1: gonna dump this. And then what is we don't even
Speaker 1: mess with this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So with me, I think it's a combination of things.
Speaker 2: I think like and you'll see a lot of these
Speaker 2: stats guys are involved now with these players of letting
Speaker 2: them kind of know, these are your strengths. This should
Speaker 2: be the green light, this should be a yellow light,
Speaker 2: you know, things like that. But then when you get
Speaker 2: past the player strength and you're just looking at a pin,
Speaker 2: like working if you were working for multiple players or
Speaker 2: just any player, you're talking about it to me like
Speaker 2: there's one experience like when I've seen bad things happen
Speaker 2: to certain pins or see that you know, you always
Speaker 2: kind of get a firm bounce, like there's a pin
Speaker 2: in Vegas on the tenth, eleventh, the twelfth hole, the
Speaker 2: par four down the hill that when they get it
Speaker 2: back left, like you cannot try to land it over
Speaker 2: the top of the ridge. You have to take a
Speaker 2: chance with having a thirty foot pot from below that ridge,
Speaker 2: and if it gets the hop over the ridge, great,
Speaker 2: but if not, the reason that's basically red light is
Speaker 2: over that green is no good.
Speaker 3: It falls off. The up and down is tough. If
Speaker 3: it gets anywhere right, it's going in the water.
Speaker 2: And then if it's left, there's a bunker that's pitching
Speaker 2: to a downslope that's very tough. So you're just trying
Speaker 2: to there even if even with that hole you're coming
Speaker 2: in with a nine iron or something like, unless those
Speaker 2: greens are really soft, which normally they're not. They're not
Speaker 2: hop it's just you can't stop it. So you're playing
Speaker 2: for like our perfect shot lands twenty five feet short,
Speaker 2: and that's the one that gets there, and if it
Speaker 2: lands thirty feet short, will take the pot. So that's
Speaker 2: an example of like those kind of things, and some
Speaker 2: of that's learned from experience of being to the courses
Speaker 2: a lot. Other is just kind of feel like the
Speaker 2: first time you saw the golf course, just where the
Speaker 2: trouble is that the fact that you could make a
Speaker 2: five or six quick and that this might not be
Speaker 2: a birdie hole.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're leaning towards this.
Speaker 2: And then obviously when you get to the five iron
Speaker 2: on up, there's not a lot.
Speaker 3: Of pins you're firing at right now.
Speaker 2: If you go somewhere and it's rained and there's no
Speaker 2: trouble around it, then and your guys feeling good, then
Speaker 2: keep firing away. And those are the weeks that you'll
Speaker 2: see these guys shoot twenty four, twenty nine, thirty under
Speaker 2: because they're just firing away and there's not really any
Speaker 2: consequences to it.
Speaker 1: So the running joke has always been that, you know,
Speaker 1: caddies with the jockey, and the player is the horse.
Speaker 1: So the balancing acts through the course of around Joe
Speaker 1: knowing your player, you know, because obviously I always say,
Speaker 1: and I a friend of mine, you know, I said
Speaker 1: this on a podcast and he was like, man, I
Speaker 1: can't believe you said that. But professional golfers are like dogs.
Speaker 1: They communicate with us nonverbally. There are times where they want.
Speaker 4: To communicate, and then there are times where they don't
Speaker 4: want to communicate right, and you have to kind of
Speaker 4: as caddies and coaches, you kind of have to, like
Speaker 4: you're looking at the body language, right, You're trying to because.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're not saying anything when you work with a
Speaker 1: new player. And you guys got into the hunt not
Speaker 1: only I mean you get thrown in the deep end
Speaker 1: at the President's Cup, but then you guys get in
Speaker 1: the hunt on Sunday at a tour event. You've been
Speaker 1: in those situations a lot of times and you and
Speaker 1: Rick have had great success in that situation. You've been
Speaker 1: in that situation a lot of you know, tons of times,
Speaker 1: and you guys haven't won, So you kind of know
Speaker 1: what that cauldron, that kind of that field of battle is. Like,
Speaker 1: what was Tom like getting into the hunt on a Sunday.
Speaker 1: You know, you guys are two weeks into your relationship.
Speaker 1: He's never you know, he's one yes and Windham before.
Speaker 1: But it's a new relationship for you guys. So what
Speaker 1: did you see down the stretch when the pressure got
Speaker 1: the most early in this kind of new relationship that
Speaker 1: you had that you went okay, I kind of like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So there was two shots at the President's Cup that
Speaker 2: got my attention. There was a left pin on what
Speaker 2: is normally seventeen at Quail Hollow. I can't remember what
Speaker 2: number that was during the President's Cut, the tough part,
Speaker 2: three down the hill and it was a left pin
Speaker 2: and he just fired right at this thing with a
Speaker 2: sixth iron, and this thing was never leaving the flag.
Speaker 2: He was not scared of the water, he was not
Speaker 2: scared of anything. And that one got my attention. And
Speaker 2: then the two iron that everybody that watched that President's Cup,
Speaker 2: you know, coming in there. Sam Burns in the next
Speaker 2: group hit nine iron in and Tom hits this two
Speaker 2: iron and I remember I actually I had seen enough
Speaker 2: of him already that Trevor, you know, you know how
Speaker 2: it gets all that for those of that aren't there
Speaker 2: at the President's Cups Ryder Cups. The later your match,
Speaker 2: the more there are guys hanging around. You got both
Speaker 2: teams right there. So he's got Justin Thomas and all
Speaker 2: these guys, you know, all the American studs right there,
Speaker 2: and then there's a few guys from our team and
Speaker 2: Trevor at his cart there, and I remember when he
Speaker 2: went over it, I knew it was a really good
Speaker 2: number for him, and I'd seen enough to irons and
Speaker 2: I just smile at Trevor, and I knew it was
Speaker 2: getting in there somewhere, and you could just feel it
Speaker 2: in the kid already. And then the way he stepped
Speaker 2: up there and made that pot and everything else, you
Speaker 2: just knew he could handle it.
Speaker 3: And then he liked this.
Speaker 2: And so it was the same at Vegas. You could
Speaker 2: feel that he liked it. Is he nervous yet? And
Speaker 2: he's more of a Jordan speak. He's talking through it
Speaker 2: the whole time, and he's chattering constantly. So the nice
Speaker 2: thing about that is you know how he's feeling. So
Speaker 2: my role is to kind of be the and man,
Speaker 2: we're all good, like chill out and like some people
Speaker 2: will give me a hard time out of there, like man,
Speaker 2: you kind of almost like sound like you don't care
Speaker 2: when they're talking to him. But that's my role with him,
Speaker 2: is that when he gets a little bit worked up
Speaker 2: or whatever, I just try to simplify it and say,
Speaker 2: this is all we're doing.
Speaker 3: Just go ahead and do this, and so it's worked
Speaker 3: out nicely.
Speaker 1: Are you nervous in those situations, Joe, Because obviously, I
Speaker 1: mean I get nervous, right, I mean I get nervous
Speaker 1: on the range on Sundays. You know, when guys have
Speaker 1: chances to win, you know, major championships, you get nervous
Speaker 1: when they're not hitting it good. But one of the
Speaker 1: things I've always marveled at what you do, and I
Speaker 1: think it's a trait that all the great caddies have,
Speaker 1: is your body language on the golf course is is
Speaker 1: very very calming, right. I mean, you'll pull the bag over.
Speaker 1: You kind of always have that thing to where you've
Speaker 1: got one arm on the bag, you're leaning on it
Speaker 1: the feeder. You know, you've got your one foot cross
Speaker 1: across the other. It doesn't look like you're worried at all.
Speaker 1: But when you do make these calls like we talked about,
Speaker 1: you know, the ones that we're able to see on
Speaker 1: social as the player, your caddy is going, hey, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is the club. Now the player can Ultimately the
Speaker 1: player can listen to you or not. But if the
Speaker 1: player listens to you, that's a big I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the closest we're going to get to being an offensive
Speaker 1: coordinator and going okay, we're gonna call this play in
Speaker 1: this situation. You being such a sports guy, such a
Speaker 1: big football guy, but in a lot of ways, Joe.
Speaker 1: That's that's an opportunity for you know, I see your
Speaker 1: role with a new player like a Tom Kim, it's
Speaker 1: a little bit like an offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, CEO,
Speaker 1: head coach. They don't know what they don't know, right,
Speaker 1: and they're hiring someone like you for your you know,
Speaker 1: almost fifteen years of expertise with a guy like Ricky Fowler.
Speaker 1: So there is that balancing act of Okay, I've just
Speaker 1: made a big call here. But when you do that,
Speaker 1: does it do the same thing that it does? Like
Speaker 1: if a player comes in working on something and hey,
Speaker 1: let's get the club wherever it is, and then they
Speaker 1: go out and they have a really good week or
Speaker 1: they play well or they win, it's validation for the
Speaker 1: calls that a coach made. So when you make a
Speaker 1: call like that, you guys are walking up. I mean
Speaker 1: in your head as a caddy, are you going hell? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 1: I mean does that pump you up to see that?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Because the worst thing, and I've experienced this, and the
Speaker 2: worst thing is when you make a call that doesn't
Speaker 2: work out and you feel like you've gotten the way
Speaker 2: of your guy's success.
Speaker 3: And so that's the worst thing.
Speaker 2: As a caddy, And so there's a balance of when
Speaker 2: you know it's right or when you let the guy go.
Speaker 2: And it's always up to them and it's their gut
Speaker 2: and their call because it's their career.
Speaker 3: I'm just there to give the information.
Speaker 2: But when you do make the call and it's right, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just like a guy hitting a good golf shot.
Speaker 3: You believe a little bit more. You're a little bit more.
Speaker 2: Confident and you see you've got this, and the more
Speaker 2: that happens, the better. It is just like reading putts right,
Speaker 2: Like certain weeks they call you in and you get
Speaker 2: the first four reads right now, you're not hesitating at all,
Speaker 2: but you get a couple wrong, you might hesitate a
Speaker 2: little bit. And that's part of I think, just like
Speaker 2: being it's not as hard to do as it is
Speaker 2: for a player, but it's part of being a good caddy,
Speaker 2: just like a quarterback that throws an interception or a
Speaker 2: corner that gets beat, Like can you come back and
Speaker 2: give a non biased opinion and like not headge your
Speaker 2: bet the next time and keep coming back and believing
Speaker 2: yourself or are you going to get down on yourself
Speaker 2: and kind of you know, oh man, I'll just stay
Speaker 2: out of the way and let him do his own
Speaker 2: thing here. So I think that is important that you
Speaker 2: have to keep having confidence in yourself and that and
Speaker 2: for me, that comes to your prep and like, the
Speaker 2: more prep that I feel, or the more you know,
Speaker 2: the more prepared I am, and the more homework I've
Speaker 2: done and the more things I've studied up on, the
Speaker 2: better I get to my skill.
Speaker 3: That the more confident I'm gonna be.
Speaker 1: You mentioned, does Tom ask you to read Putts?
Speaker 3: We do read a lot of Putts together, so.
Speaker 1: Because I mean I might be wrong on this, but
Speaker 1: I'm just guessing rick didn't ask you to read a
Speaker 1: lot because Rick's obviously such I mean, he's just such
Speaker 1: a generational like feel putter. So that role of not
Speaker 1: being asked to read Putts for you know, a long
Speaker 1: time with Ricky and then coming into a new role
Speaker 1: with Tom where he's going okay, because it's not like
Speaker 1: for thirteen years you don't know how to read Putts, right,
Speaker 1: I mean you played so, I mean you're a good
Speaker 1: green reader. So in a new role, do you find
Speaker 1: that fun? You know that Hey, I never got to
Speaker 1: do this, I never really did this with Ricky because
Speaker 1: Ricky didn't need me to do this. Now I'm kind
Speaker 1: of getting called in and it's kind of a collaborative effort.
Speaker 1: I've seen situations like that where you see players and
Speaker 1: caddies they over that, right, they bond over that kind
Speaker 1: of sharing of information, and then you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: you go out. I mean, up until DJ and AJ
Speaker 1: started doing aid point, DJ would never call Aj in
Speaker 1: for any putts, and then on eighteen on Saturday night,
Speaker 1: he'd call him in on one and we'd get off
Speaker 1: the course and AJ would go, Bro. He didn't call me,
Speaker 1: hasn't called me in in three months on a putt.
Speaker 1: Now he wants to do it on a six foot
Speaker 1: downhill left to right putt for par and now he
Speaker 1: wants my input on it. He never wants my input.
Speaker 1: Have you enjoyed having more input, you know, from a
Speaker 1: from a putting standpoint? Has that been something that's been fun?
Speaker 1: I just when you mentioned it, I was thinking about it.
Speaker 1: You never did that with Ricky. Now you've got a
Speaker 1: young player, he's calling you in. You're on courses he's
Speaker 1: never seen before, so you can say, hey, listen, I
Speaker 1: know this putt goes this direction. We've had this before,
Speaker 1: that's got to be cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been great. And with rick you're right, like
Speaker 3: he's such a good putter.
Speaker 2: We did have spurts where he'd ask me a lot
Speaker 2: more and certain horses that he'd ask me more if
Speaker 2: he wasn't seeing things or But the problem, you know,
Speaker 2: the hard part about that is when you get grape
Speaker 2: putters like that that don't call you in very much,
Speaker 2: you get called in on the hardest ones every round, right,
Speaker 2: they don't they don't know what it's doing, and they're
Speaker 2: trying to get some confirmation. So yeah, so it's definitely different.
Speaker 2: But along the way, I kind of learned a couple
Speaker 2: of graderating systems. I kept trying to become a better
Speaker 2: dream reader for when Ricky did call me, and even
Speaker 2: if it was some tournaments it was zero times, some
Speaker 2: tournaments four times, other tournaments you know it was sixteen
Speaker 2: holes straight, it just kind of depended. So with Tom
Speaker 2: it's a lot more consistent of how often, and we
Speaker 2: have a lot more talk about speed with Tom, you
Speaker 2: know of you know going up back down is this
Speaker 2: one quick you know downgrain that kind of thing. And
Speaker 2: then there's certain style of greens that Tom seems to
Speaker 2: see better than I do. And there's certain ones that
Speaker 2: I kind of I kind of get those greens a
Speaker 2: little bit more than him. Like he's a lot better
Speaker 2: on grain than I am. He just just putt it
Speaker 2: on grain and he gets it.
Speaker 1: I would imagine playing so much in Asia that grainy greens,
Speaker 1: greens that are that are slow. I would imagine he
Speaker 1: didn't grow up playing on super fast bent that are
Speaker 1: super hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So he sees that well. And then
Speaker 3: what he's done is he went and learned name point
Speaker 3: this year.
Speaker 2: So he'll go do the feet and do all that
Speaker 2: I learned name point, but I use my eyes with
Speaker 2: it just so that we can communicate in one point zero,
Speaker 2: one point five whatever. And then he'll, you know, he'll
Speaker 2: say I got one point five in my feet and
Speaker 2: I'll say, yeah, that looks right to me. Or I'll
Speaker 2: say he'll say what do you got and I said,
Speaker 2: I got one point oh, and he'll say, okay, I
Speaker 2: got one point five.
Speaker 3: And they'll kind of decide what he's gonna play.
Speaker 2: And then ultimately, as you know, like most putts, you know,
Speaker 2: if it's a cup out putt and foot by speed.
Speaker 3: You could hit it half a cup.
Speaker 2: Out and a cup and a half out with the
Speaker 2: right speeds and still make the putt.
Speaker 3: So that player's got to go to their field.
Speaker 2: And how hard they're going to hit the pot, how
Speaker 2: they feel about that pott and being comfortable over it.
Speaker 2: So we're just giving them a you know, unless it's
Speaker 2: an inside right versus outside right, you're really just giving
Speaker 2: them a guide and then they're going to go aim
Speaker 2: it where they aim it, and you know, you're kind
Speaker 2: of like a confirmation more than anything.
Speaker 1: I think, what do you think, Joe, it takes to
Speaker 1: be a great caddy at the tour level.
Speaker 3: So I think I think preparation willing to learn.
Speaker 2: I think those are two big keys, because of then
Speaker 2: you're going to be ready to go. You're going to
Speaker 2: have all the information your guy asks. But then I
Speaker 2: think to take it a step from there, I think
Speaker 2: if you've played competitive golf, it's an advantage because you
Speaker 2: just understand how it feels.
Speaker 3: You understand what's going through them.
Speaker 2: Even if it was an AGGA event at that time
Speaker 2: that felt like a tour event to you, you know,
Speaker 2: or if it was a cityameter that was your major
Speaker 2: at the time, right, So you still felt those feelings.
Speaker 2: It's not on this level and you don't have the
Speaker 2: skill set, but you get it and you can at
Speaker 2: least relate to it a little bit. And then I
Speaker 2: think on top of that, I think being able to
Speaker 2: get along with players, being able to get along. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of time in between shots, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of time together. There's a lot of you spend more
Speaker 2: hours with your caddy or your player than.
Speaker 3: You do your wife most of the time.
Speaker 2: So being able to get along, have a personality that
Speaker 2: gets along with that player, makes them comfortable do that.
Speaker 2: I think those are kind of the things that can
Speaker 2: kind of separate you a little bit so that they're
Speaker 2: in a comfortable state and they trust you.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: And then just being consistent, like beyond time, like do
Speaker 2: things the right way, show up the work, be ready
Speaker 2: to go, be positive, just all the little things that
Speaker 2: are going to make you successful in life. You can
Speaker 2: figure out how to be a good caddy out here.
Speaker 1: You said prep work, Scovey, what's the prep work for
Speaker 1: everyone listening that you think as a caddy, what is
Speaker 1: the prep work? Because a lot of people think that
Speaker 1: a tour caddy to just get to the golf course,
Speaker 1: show up, carry the bag, leave. What for you is
Speaker 1: your prep and what in your prep are you trying
Speaker 1: to get done? And what advantage are you trying to
Speaker 1: gain by the prep work that you're trying to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so early on I had to spend a ton
Speaker 2: of time catching up on the golf courses. You know,
Speaker 2: I came out with Rick, we're both out there the
Speaker 2: first year. Man, I got to learn all these golf courses.
Speaker 2: So there was a lot of time on Mondays just
Speaker 2: learning the golf courses.
Speaker 1: And Scovey when you say Scovey, when you say you're
Speaker 1: trying to learn the golf courses, what are you trying
Speaker 1: to learn from these golf courses as a caddy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one I would always start with, Okay, where
Speaker 2: do we need to try to hit this off this tea?
Speaker 3: Is this a driver hole?
Speaker 2: Is it's a whole that we're trying to keep some
Speaker 2: hazard out of play? Are we trying to hit to
Speaker 2: the widest part of the fairway? What are we trying
Speaker 2: to do? And then you're talking about that in practice reunds, right, like,
Speaker 2: what's our strategy going to be on this all? Then
Speaker 2: probably The most important part is pins and knowing which
Speaker 2: pins are gopins, which pins are not, where you have
Speaker 2: to land at certain pins, where the leave is all
Speaker 2: those kind of things, so you know, and the leaves
Speaker 2: around those greens right where's trouble, where's not?
Speaker 3: All that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: And then you have things like awkward layups on par
Speaker 2: fives or you know, something of that nature that you
Speaker 2: might have to get some extra numbers, get something from
Speaker 2: a weird angle that might happen that week, so that
Speaker 2: you're ready when that happens during the event.
Speaker 3: Mark Long does such a.
Speaker 2: Good job with the yardage books now that you don't
Speaker 2: have to do a lot of the stuff you had
Speaker 2: to do before. So for me, most of my time
Speaker 2: now if it's not a new course to me, it's
Speaker 2: just refreshing my memory on leaves, the pins, how these
Speaker 2: play what we're hitting off the team, where we're trying
Speaker 2: to hit it. And then you're looking at the rough,
Speaker 2: the bunkers, Which bunkers are playable, which ones are, what
Speaker 2: rough's bad?
Speaker 3: What isn't is? You know, are we able to get
Speaker 3: aggressive on this all? Are we not?
Speaker 2: And just wanting to be as familiar with the golf
Speaker 2: course as you can, you know, lines anything like that,
Speaker 2: so that your player asks you a question you can
Speaker 2: answer it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's got to be I mean to me, that's
Speaker 1: got to be the goal.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: You don't ever want to be out there and have
Speaker 1: the player ask you a number or shot that you
Speaker 1: are like uh, because they can pick up on that
Speaker 1: quick right, especially especially I would imagine having never really
Speaker 1: been in that situation, but I would imagine especially down
Speaker 1: down the stretch and in the hunt. You get in
Speaker 1: the hunt, the player can figure out if you're scared
Speaker 1: quick right as a caddy, and that believe it or not.
Speaker 1: And and for people listening, that does happen, right. It
Speaker 1: is not easy to get I don't think people realize
Speaker 1: when you get on the back nine on Sunday and
Speaker 1: you're one of the five to six seven guys that
Speaker 1: have a chance to win the golf tournament, the air
Speaker 1: gets thin. It's it's not easy. And I think having
Speaker 1: confidence in being prepared makes the player know that you've
Speaker 1: done all the work and that there isn't anything that
Speaker 1: you guys are going to get thrown that you haven't
Speaker 1: kind of known or figured would happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and the thing that happens, it speeds.
Speaker 3: Up a lot out there. That's what I noticed the
Speaker 3: first kick fast that we got a contention. It speeds up.
Speaker 2: And so like the more prep you've done, the more things,
Speaker 2: the more the more you know about the golf, Cresenta,
Speaker 2: you can kind of slow things down and then help
Speaker 2: the player slow things down and talk in that manner
Speaker 2: rather than being in a rush to get a number,
Speaker 2: get something you don't know for sure, and then that
Speaker 2: fo mistakes can happen. And to me, we're not hitting
Speaker 2: any of the shots. We don't have that pressure that
Speaker 2: is so hard to do. So for me, it's I
Speaker 2: need to provide the right info and I need to
Speaker 2: be in a state of mind that I would want
Speaker 2: somebody next to being to be in that they're calm, confident,
Speaker 2: you know, like a coach or somebody that just gives
Speaker 2: off the right vibe to their team. You don't ever
Speaker 2: want to be doing the opposite of that and bringing
Speaker 2: your player down. If you should always be the one
Speaker 2: that's bringing your player up, making him feel more comfortable
Speaker 2: and making him as comfortable as you can in that.
Speaker 1: Situation, Scotty, I want to go through players and caddies
Speaker 1: and talk to you about both of them, Scotty Scheffler
Speaker 1: and Teddy Scott an amazing partnership. Teddy, who caddied long
Speaker 1: time for Bubba Watson, You and Rick spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time around him. What do you think makes Teddy
Speaker 1: Scott a great caddy?
Speaker 3: I mean, I thought Teddy.
Speaker 2: I thought Teddy Scott was a great caddy for a
Speaker 2: long time. I mean caddying for Bubba and the fact
Speaker 2: that he could hit four different clubs and how many
Speaker 2: different flights for each shot, and just how fiel orange
Speaker 2: he was and being able to kind of manage that
Speaker 2: and have the success that they had. I thought how
Speaker 2: Teddy did that was fantastic. And then we've spent a
Speaker 2: lot of time with Teddy and Scotty over this last
Speaker 2: year because Scotty and Tom are tight, and I just
Speaker 2: think Teddy's experience and his maturity is what he's brought
Speaker 2: to Scott Scotty and I think there's a big trust there,
Speaker 2: there's a great relationship there. And obviously Teddy's a really
Speaker 2: good player. He worked you know, he's won multiple August Does.
Speaker 2: He worked for one of the greatest players on the planet,
Speaker 2: and so you can just see why they've had the
Speaker 2: success they've had, you know, combining how good Scotty is
Speaker 2: with Teddy on the bag.
Speaker 1: What have you seen over the last couple of years
Speaker 1: of Scotty Scheffler's game that have just been I mean,
Speaker 1: he is he has been so impressive. And obviously I
Speaker 1: haven't seen him play a lot up close in the
Speaker 1: last couple of years, so all my guys went to
Speaker 1: live but he played a bunch of practice rounds at
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup with Brooks, and even though they didn't
Speaker 1: necessarily play great, I just I'm I am so impressed
Speaker 1: by the way Scotty Scheffler plays golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, he hits it so good all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: I mean it's like, I mean he.
Speaker 2: Played practice though he just cheaps doing it over and
Speaker 2: over and over. And then the thing that's always separated
Speaker 2: Scotty to me, and you see it in pretty much
Speaker 2: every great you hear about that like dominated the game
Speaker 2: or went on big runs. You know, Jack Tiger, those
Speaker 2: kind of guys they hit long iron so high and
Speaker 2: they bring it in so high and solid.
Speaker 1: It's the Tiger back in the day. You know, the
Speaker 1: four iron that's coming in like a nine iron.
Speaker 3: And it's such a big deal when he gets to
Speaker 3: these levels, Like everybody talks about how far does the
Speaker 3: guy hit?
Speaker 2: How far is it? And I'm like, well, how high
Speaker 2: is he launching it? And how's that thing carrying? And
Speaker 2: how high does he hit long irons? Because it just
Speaker 2: changes golf courses. You can get to pins that other
Speaker 2: people can't get to fins.
Speaker 1: You can't win major championships unless you can hit long
Speaker 1: irons high. It's very difficult to win majors and a
Speaker 1: bunch of them if you can't flight both up and
Speaker 1: down the high and the low. That five iron, that
Speaker 1: four iron, that three iron. You've got to have that control.
Speaker 1: Rory McElroy and Harry Diamond. I think Harry out of
Speaker 1: I think Harry and AJ out of all the caddies
Speaker 1: in professional golf, kind of get the most looked over.
Speaker 1: As you know, their players are so great. Anybody could
Speaker 1: caddy for these guys. You've been out a lot with
Speaker 1: Harry Diamond. It's easy when when Rory plays poorly, a
Speaker 1: lot of people pile on the you know, fire Harry
Speaker 1: Diamond bandwagon, which I think is total bullshit. I like
Speaker 1: Harry Diamond's a very good caddy. What do you like
Speaker 1: about Harry in the way that he caddies, because you've
Speaker 1: been out with those guys a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Harry's a good player himself. That's kind
Speaker 2: of a common theme with a lot of these guys.
Speaker 2: I think he understands Rory really well. He's calm, he's
Speaker 2: never gets kind of worked up the situation, never looks like,
Speaker 2: you know, Harry's just going out there and he's gotting
Speaker 2: it and he's doing his thing, and he's like, hey,
Speaker 2: we're playing golf.
Speaker 3: This is what we do.
Speaker 2: And then you saw it when they won Quail Hollow whatever.
Speaker 3: Year that was. Was that a couple of years ago?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, when when Roy hit it left.
Speaker 2: And he was calm enough to suggest the drop that
Speaker 2: they could take that. And I don't remember the exact situation,
Speaker 2: but I remember thinking to myself, man, and that big
Speaker 2: of a moment to be that's a huge health the idea,
Speaker 2: and that's your job to be calm enough. But a
Speaker 2: lot of guys aren't gonna and they're going to miss
Speaker 2: that or whatever. And the fact that he suggested all
Speaker 2: that and that they ended up finishing off the golf
Speaker 2: tournament when things could have gone awry there.
Speaker 3: That impressed me.
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned that that I don't think people realize
Speaker 1: I I like him down the stretch in tournament golf,
Speaker 1: like the red zone offense and professional football. It's the
Speaker 1: two minute drill. How many time outs you had, And
Speaker 1: you said, when you get in the hunt, things can
Speaker 1: start moving really really fast. Right, So Rory snap hooks
Speaker 1: one off the tee. He's on a downslope, he's not
Speaker 1: in the in the water, but he's got to bend
Speaker 1: down for Harry in that situation, not only to make
Speaker 1: that call, but to be thinking so clearly Joe in
Speaker 1: that situation, to go, hey, we could take a drop here,
Speaker 1: because a lot of times you're so focused, you're on
Speaker 1: the side hill, you're trying to get a number. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a difficult situation. There's a you know, down the stretch,
Speaker 1: you get to the eighteenth hole, you're in the last group.
Speaker 1: Now all the cameras are there, Now everybody's inside the ropes.
Speaker 1: That only adds to the fact that it feels like
Speaker 1: it's it's moving faster when you look at Rory's game.
Speaker 1: If you take something from Rory's game and give it
Speaker 1: to yourself as a player, what would you take?
Speaker 3: I'm I said that to him this week. I said
Speaker 3: that to him this year at Travelers.
Speaker 2: We were playing with him and he hit one on
Speaker 2: the ninth, just up over everything.
Speaker 3: And it's the freeest motion, the way he.
Speaker 2: Walks into the ball and the way that he just
Speaker 2: swings it so free, like he has no cares in
Speaker 2: the world. Is just as a golfer growing up playing
Speaker 2: and you know, you get tight in your guide in it.
Speaker 2: There's no guide in him. And I just said to
Speaker 2: I was like, man, if I could have one golf wish,
Speaker 2: I'd just like to walk around to your body and
Speaker 2: hit drivers. You know.
Speaker 3: It's it's incredible how free he is with a driver.
Speaker 3: It's it's amazing.
Speaker 1: And he looks, you know, very much like and I've
Speaker 1: said this before, Ben Crenshaw looks like he was born
Speaker 1: with a putter in his hand. Sebby looks like he
Speaker 1: was born with a wedge in his hand. Rory's one
Speaker 1: of those guys in the Adam Scott Tiger vane to
Speaker 1: where they look like they were born with the driver
Speaker 1: in their hand. They rarely, I mean Tiger maybe towards
Speaker 1: the end. But Tiger in the day, they never look
Speaker 1: like they're off balance. I mean, for as fast and
Speaker 1: as hard as Rory McElroy's hitting his driver, I marvel
Speaker 1: at he It's like he's a gymnast, he's a figure skater.
Speaker 1: He can crank one three point thirty, launch it over
Speaker 1: all the trees, and it never looks like he's even
Speaker 1: gonna like lose his balance. It's it's unbelievable how good
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: And he just looks like he enjoys it so much. Oh,
Speaker 2: he looks like, here I go, I get to show everybody.
Speaker 3: Here we go.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna hit this three thirty down the pipe, you know,
Speaker 2: And it's just he looks exciting, like when he goes
Speaker 2: into the driver.
Speaker 1: John Rahm and Adam Hayes. Adam, I think Adam doesn't
Speaker 1: get nearly enough credit for. I mean, it's easy to
Speaker 1: jump to bones, to jump to all these other people,
Speaker 1: but Adam Hayes is as good a caddy as there
Speaker 1: is in the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's another one that you've heard John talk
Speaker 2: about it, Like, even besides the caddying part of it,
Speaker 2: what Adam's done for him person and his trust level
Speaker 2: with him and his maturity. And you know, that's another
Speaker 2: thing that people don't realize that when you get into
Speaker 2: the Superstar world, man, there's a lot coming at you,
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on, and when you have a
Speaker 2: caddy that you don't have to worry about, that you
Speaker 2: rely on when you need to.
Speaker 3: Talk to him, that hazard back, that never.
Speaker 2: Causes an issue for you, that only aids what you're
Speaker 2: trying to do and makes your life easier. I think
Speaker 2: there's a big value in that, and especially the bigger
Speaker 2: you get with all the distractions and things that can happen.
Speaker 2: And John's talked about it, and you've heard him say
Speaker 2: how much he values Adam, and not just as a
Speaker 2: caddy but as a person. And I think that's you know,
Speaker 2: their relationship speaks for itself with how much they'd want.
Speaker 1: What is the difference, would you say, Joe? I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously you've never caddied for someone that's struggling to keep
Speaker 1: their card and stuff, But what would you Because I
Speaker 1: think it was really interesting that you mentioned that once
Speaker 1: you get into the superstar world of caddy in right,
Speaker 1: we're talking like people that don't have chances to win majors,
Speaker 1: people that are expected to win every major they play in, Right,
Speaker 1: that's a big That is a big, big jump from
Speaker 1: trying to keep your card not being in all the
Speaker 1: big tournaments and stuff. So what do you think once
Speaker 1: you get into the superstar realm of caddyan for someone
Speaker 1: that is winning majors, is expected to win, what is
Speaker 1: the difference, right, because you would think it would be
Speaker 1: the same, but there has to be a I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a difference between caddy and for
Speaker 1: someone that's you know, never won before and is trying
Speaker 1: to you know, make it and get their first win
Speaker 1: versus the guys that I caddy or are coaching, Brooks
Speaker 1: and DJ. There's a big difference between that. I feel like,
Speaker 1: I know with it. What do you feel like the
Speaker 1: difference is when you get a superstar bag versus a
Speaker 1: regular bag.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, they're just so good, right, So
Speaker 2: that helps, right, like to catch that is only going
Speaker 2: to be as good as the player. So first of all,
Speaker 2: you're working for a guy that's that good, right, So
Speaker 2: that's amazing. But I think the little things that people
Speaker 2: don't realize and I got to experience it with Rick,
Speaker 2: is the amount of people trying to get autographs, do
Speaker 2: things like that to like helping them manage that, like
Speaker 2: helping them manage their time on the range. You have
Speaker 2: to say no to some people sometimes so that they
Speaker 2: don't come bother them in the middle of something. Picking
Speaker 2: and choosing those times to say no. You know, the
Speaker 2: bigger crowds that you're dealing with out on the golf course.
Speaker 2: You know, you play with tiger Woods. That's a different
Speaker 2: crowd walking around and now you're holding people up, you're
Speaker 2: moving them, you're trying to keep things calm, you're trying
Speaker 2: to do all those kind of things. So it just
Speaker 2: it just gives you some outside elements. And then I
Speaker 2: think too that these guys they have a brand, right,
Speaker 2: and so you're part of that brand. And so your
Speaker 2: job isn't to necessarily be seen or heard or any
Speaker 2: of those kind of things. It's don't cause any issues
Speaker 2: to the brand, don't and protect your problem, protect the brand,
Speaker 2: protect your guy, like and so that's part of your
Speaker 2: job as well. And like, I think that that's an
Speaker 2: underrated thing. It's pretty easy to learn and get used
Speaker 2: to it, but all those outside factors you don't just
Speaker 2: get to do whatever you want when you're out there
Speaker 2: and everything else, and you know, you need to be
Speaker 2: presented a certain way, and everybody's going to be different
Speaker 2: how they want their guy to kind of fit into that.
Speaker 2: But you want to fit into what your guy wants
Speaker 2: to be out there.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I don't. I mean when you look at
Speaker 1: John Ram's game, and I say this all the time,
Speaker 1: I don't know how the guy doesn't win every week.
Speaker 1: I mean, he is that good, right, So when you
Speaker 1: look at his game, and I mean, you want to
Speaker 1: take everything from John Ram's game, right, you want to
Speaker 1: take it all. But what do you look at having
Speaker 1: seen it up close, having seen it under the gun,
Speaker 1: that you look at it and go, man, I'd give
Speaker 1: anything to have that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think just in general, I've always been a
Speaker 2: guy that gets tied up in mechanics. And he looks
Speaker 2: like he's never tied up in mechanics. He's just playing
Speaker 2: golf and he creates this power and he hits shots
Speaker 2: and he does all these things and it's so impressive
Speaker 2: to watch how easy he makes it look, you know,
Speaker 2: and it just never looks like he's worried about his
Speaker 2: golf swing.
Speaker 3: He's just worried about playing golf, and I envy that.
Speaker 3: I think that that's the thing that I would take
Speaker 3: from him, is how he's able to do that.
Speaker 1: You know, I've never thought about this, but I say
Speaker 1: this all the time about Rick, right. I mean, if
Speaker 1: Rick misses a six seven eight footerer, he doesn't go
Speaker 1: to the side of the putting green and work on
Speaker 1: a stroke. He knows he's a good putter. He'll look
Speaker 1: at you and go, hey, we'll get the next one.
Speaker 1: Now that you mention it. I don't ever see John
Speaker 1: Rahm making practice wings. I never see him over while
Speaker 1: he's waiting on a shot, working on a move. It's
Speaker 1: fascinating that you mentioned that, but you're right. Ever see
Speaker 1: John Rahm working on shadow boxing mechanics on the golf course.
Speaker 2: Ever, Yeah, it's amazing. And the way he hits it
Speaker 2: and the way he does things. I mean, he's so powerful,
Speaker 2: it's so straight, he's got the different flights, and it
Speaker 2: just looks like he just says, Oh, I'm gonna draw
Speaker 2: this one, draw it. Oh I'm gonna cut this one.
Speaker 2: That's how it looks from the outside. I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's what he's thinking, but that's what I envy
Speaker 2: the most.
Speaker 1: You mentioned you look at John Rahm and he makes
Speaker 1: the game look easy. Towards the end of your run
Speaker 1: with Ricky Fowler, Ricky was going through it. I mean
Speaker 1: he had a really tough to three year stretch. Everybody's
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's got answers when you're going through that.
Speaker 1: But when you are going through that, Joe as a
Speaker 1: player and as a caddy and as a team, everybody
Speaker 1: sees the great shots you guys hit, right, but it
Speaker 1: can get dark out there on the golf course when
Speaker 1: what you're trying to work on is working it Because
Speaker 1: everything that work Ricky was working on with John Tillery
Speaker 1: obviously was working in practice. Otherwise he wouldn't have kept
Speaker 1: to do that. So this thing that the fans and
Speaker 1: other people here, Hey, I'm on the right track. What
Speaker 1: wasn't going right in that stretch? And it's not it's
Speaker 1: not specific to rick right because we see it, but
Speaker 1: that thing when players struggle. Jt went through this last year. Right,
Speaker 1: You're not gonna find anybody that really is going to
Speaker 1: work harder than justin Thomas and grind it out. Jordan
Speaker 1: has gone through this, right, Where when when things aren't
Speaker 1: going well, what do you feel like it is because
Speaker 1: you're practicing something and then on the golf course it's
Speaker 1: not working out. And you and I talked a lot
Speaker 1: over the last three years. You're like, dude, it's just
Speaker 1: we're so close. But sometimes you're so close and you
Speaker 1: can be so far away. What is that like when
Speaker 1: you're when you're when the team is struggling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so with us, it was just kind of like
Speaker 2: an avalanche of everything right. And it's like you're trying
Speaker 2: to make some changes with the golf swing. You're not
Speaker 2: quite taking it to the golf course. You know, the
Speaker 2: fields are changing on you. You're trying to figure it out.
Speaker 2: You can't kind of get it figured out, and then
Speaker 2: the putter goes cold, and it's like, wait, that always
Speaker 2: cleaned everything up. So now if you have a stretch
Speaker 2: of five holes to where you kind of hit it scratch,
Speaker 2: you hit it bad. You normally walk out of those
Speaker 2: five holes even par, maybe one over, sometimes one under.
Speaker 2: Now you're walking out of those holes three or four over,
Speaker 2: and now, oh man, I got to bring this thing back.
Speaker 2: You know, here comes a miscut. You know, all the
Speaker 2: things that go through your thought I'm not saying those
Speaker 2: were going through my head, but a player, that's what's
Speaker 2: going through their head, right like there, and so, now
Speaker 2: instead of playing those holes even par, and then you
Speaker 2: just then start hitting it pretty good and all of
Speaker 2: a sudden you turn that round into sixty eight. Now
Speaker 2: you have to play great the rest of the way
Speaker 2: to turn that round into seventy two or seventy three,
Speaker 2: which isn't going to make many cuts out here, and
Speaker 2: so and then you it just snowballs. And then when
Speaker 2: you're a big name, you know, like Jordan or Justin
Speaker 2: or Ricky, you got to go answer the questions every day.
Speaker 2: So you're trying to forget about it, and everybody's asking
Speaker 2: you what's wrong with you every single day, and you've
Speaker 2: got to go and there's nothing wrong with me. I'm
Speaker 2: trying to figure this out, like just give me some time,
Speaker 2: or hey, there's something wrong right now, but it'll be fine.
Speaker 2: And they're asking you a question every question, and they're
Speaker 2: just reminding you how bad you're.
Speaker 3: Playing, How bad are you're playing? You know what's going wrong?
Speaker 2: This is it and you got to defend yourself, defend
Speaker 2: your instructor, defend this, defend that and I think it
Speaker 2: just gets tough.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: I think Rick would probably say it too. I don't
Speaker 2: want to speak for him, but I think going through
Speaker 2: those three years when we were going through it, I said,
Speaker 2: you're going to be better at for this because of this,
Speaker 2: because you've never gone through this. And I know I'm
Speaker 2: better because of it because we kind of had a
Speaker 2: nice ride for ten years, you know. I mean, there
Speaker 2: wasn't ups and downs. He's consistent, and you know, there
Speaker 2: were hard times. We had hard losses and stuff, but
Speaker 2: we didn't have like hard times and like we got
Speaker 2: the experience like we're not getting our card back. He
Speaker 2: had his status, but like as far as like where
Speaker 2: we were finishing on the FedEx Cup and seeing that
Speaker 2: kind of tumble and like you know, squeaking into the
Speaker 2: playoffs or not making the playoffs and those kind of things,
Speaker 2: I think, and he had to do it in front
Speaker 2: of the whole world, you know. And so for me,
Speaker 2: it was we were always just trying to figure it out.
Speaker 2: And it was like there was a lot of phone calls,
Speaker 2: there's talks within the team, there's trying to figure it out.
Speaker 3: How do we help this, how do we do this?
Speaker 2: And You're just trying to support rick and trying to
Speaker 2: turn it around, and you know, it gets you start
Speaker 2: feeling helpless at a certain point and you start wondering, like, well,
Speaker 2: do I need to change the way I'm doing something?
Speaker 3: Do I need to do this? Because you're only trying
Speaker 3: to help.
Speaker 2: And that's ultimately what happened with us is it just
Speaker 2: needed to go in separate ways, right, And he's had
Speaker 2: success and I've had success since, and I couldn't be
Speaker 2: happier for him. I mean I'd cheer it up, you know,
Speaker 2: watching him win. It was so cool and so and
Speaker 2: like Tom pulled for him, you know, like it was
Speaker 2: that kind of relationship and I room with his caddie
Speaker 2: now and so like. But it needed to happen, and
Speaker 2: that's what he needed to kind of, you know that
Speaker 2: along with a couple other changes he made and boom,
Speaker 2: look at how he played.
Speaker 3: And so it was great to see him back.
Speaker 2: And it's it's a hard thing, but I think Rick
Speaker 2: will be a better person and better golfer because of it.
Speaker 1: You mentioned you thought Ricky would learn something through those
Speaker 1: three years as a player. What did you learn specifically
Speaker 1: as a caddie that you feel like moving forward for
Speaker 1: the next phase of your career, Scotty, that you can go, Okay,
Speaker 1: I went through this with Rick. This is what I learned,
Speaker 1: and this is what I can take to the next
Speaker 1: phase of my professional career.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think number one is I'm a guy that's always like,
Speaker 2: it's never enough, Let's get better. It's never enough, let's
Speaker 2: get better. That like, even though I'm not an athlete
Speaker 2: and I didn't I wasn't good enough to make it
Speaker 2: that way. My mind works more that way with life,
Speaker 2: you know, more of a Tom Brady. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we did that. Now let's move on to this, and
Speaker 2: let's keep getting better and better. And I think I
Speaker 2: learned that sometimes you just have to be where you're
Speaker 2: at and be okay with it, and you don't always
Speaker 2: have to keep trying to take these next things because
Speaker 2: they might just happen, or they might happen in a
Speaker 2: different way, and everybody goes about them a different way.
Speaker 2: And I think that you know, your expectation when you
Speaker 2: work for Rick for that long is always like, Okay,
Speaker 2: how do we get over the hume, how.
Speaker 3: Do we win more? How do we do this? How
Speaker 3: do we do that?
Speaker 2: And you're always trying to do these things and maybe
Speaker 2: sometimes you just need to let it sit and give
Speaker 2: it time and it'll happen. And so I think I
Speaker 2: learned some patience in that manner, I guess, and to
Speaker 2: not be so you almost start expecting of your guy
Speaker 2: when you believe in him so much, you expect so
Speaker 2: much out of him, and sometimes you got to remember
Speaker 2: that we're all just humans, you know. And I think
Speaker 2: sometimes as a caddy, maybe you can push the guy
Speaker 2: too hard, especially with the relationship I had with Rick.
Speaker 3: That maybe you.
Speaker 2: Kind of push that too hard and maybe that's not
Speaker 2: dam and how they're going to do it.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about the job your boy John Wood
Speaker 1: is doing for NBC and Golf Channel. I mean, I
Speaker 1: thought Bones did an unbelievable job coming out of the
Speaker 1: caddy ranks and commentating. But I think it is so cool,
Speaker 1: so cool that the lead on course analyst for NBC
Speaker 1: is John Wood, a caddy. When you started thirteen years
Speaker 1: ago and you look at the television landscape, did you
Speaker 1: ever think that there would be in that seat a caddy,
Speaker 1: Because I for all of us, it was the obvious
Speaker 1: choice out of on course commentators. Yes, the player, But
Speaker 1: I always thought, why isn't a caddie in this role?
Speaker 1: I mean, and I think I think Bones set it
Speaker 1: up amazing. He did a great job. But I think
Speaker 1: he's going back to caddy in John Wood, who caddied
Speaker 1: for Hunter, who caddied for Coach. I think John's doing
Speaker 1: an amazing job. But from a caddy standpoint, it's gotta
Speaker 1: be great for you to go. They finally have one
Speaker 1: of us talking about the professional game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's so cool. And of course it
Speaker 2: was Bones that changes everything. He's kind of done that
Speaker 2: for our profession the whole way. He's kind of been
Speaker 2: he's been the standard bearer for our profession, right. And
Speaker 2: John was one of the guys I looked up to
Speaker 2: when I first came out and worked those first few
Speaker 2: Ryder cups. You know, John was one of the best
Speaker 2: caddies out there, always prepared, always working hard into it,
Speaker 2: the whole thing. So it's no accident that those two
Speaker 2: have been the ones that did it, and that they've
Speaker 2: done such a good job. And like you said, with John,
Speaker 2: it's it's great to see and it's nice to know
Speaker 2: that that might be an opportunity someday for us, you know,
Speaker 2: and it makes complete sense because we're not having to
Speaker 2: hit the shots, so we're thinking about all the other factors.
Speaker 2: So when you're describing things on TV, you can describe
Speaker 2: all those factors because you're not you've thought that way
Speaker 2: the whole time, because you're not worried about, well, what
Speaker 2: kind of swing am I going to make here? What
Speaker 2: am I going to do here? It's how's the fly
Speaker 2: going to react? Where do we need to land it,
Speaker 2: where's the win? All those kinds of things, and so
Speaker 2: then you're describing that for the viewer.
Speaker 3: And I think it's great.
Speaker 1: When you when you and Rick split up and you
Speaker 1: were trying to figure out what you were going to
Speaker 1: do before you got to call from Tom, did you think, Hey,
Speaker 1: maybe I want to try and do some TV and
Speaker 1: do some stuff like Bones and Wood.
Speaker 2: Did so for me, I don't know that I'd excel
Speaker 2: in that. I thought about a lot of this. I've
Speaker 2: done it little bit of radio. I fill in with
Speaker 2: Colt and Drew on Graving and the sleeves a decent amount.
Speaker 2: And that's something you know. Me, I love talking sports.
Speaker 2: I love breaking everything down and detailing everything else. And
Speaker 2: that's great because I have the time to do it
Speaker 2: those guys and getting in and out the way they
Speaker 2: do that is tough to do, and I'm not so
Speaker 2: sure I could do it. I think I'd much rather
Speaker 2: be in the studio kind of breaking it down and
Speaker 2: doing things that way so I can go into my detail.
Speaker 2: Because the in and out that these guys do that
Speaker 2: are good at that, it's really impressive.
Speaker 1: Lastly, in twenty twenty three, Scovey, what do you like
Speaker 1: about caddying in twenty twenty three? Where do you I mean,
Speaker 1: just as a profession, what do you like about where
Speaker 1: caddying is in twenty twenty three? And what are the
Speaker 1: things You're like? Yeah, I don't like that.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2: It's hard to complain about anything at this point from
Speaker 2: where it's come. When I got out there in the
Speaker 2: fall of two thousand and nine, and now you know
Speaker 2: we're at the BMW and the Tour Championship, and we're
Speaker 2: eating with the players in those events, and you know
Speaker 2: we got no cut events coming and we're cattying for
Speaker 2: twenty million dollars.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's unbelievable where it's.
Speaker 1: Come, Scoby. Is Tom Kim going to live I mean
Speaker 1: you're eating with the players. I mean that's that sounds
Speaker 1: that sounds a lot like Live Scoby. You're eating in
Speaker 1: player dining, you're playing for twenty million.
Speaker 2: I mean it's you know, since these when they're getting
Speaker 2: these smaller fields there, they're going out of the way.
Speaker 2: I mean, we got courtesy cars the last two events
Speaker 2: at BMW and Tour Championship. Is unbelievable that these events
Speaker 2: are doing this, and these events care about us now,
Speaker 2: and they're like, come to us and ask us our opinion,
Speaker 2: and we're a part of it. And it's and the
Speaker 2: tour you know, where their stances come on us, and
Speaker 2: how much more than they make us feel involved now,
Speaker 2: it's just amazing. I mean, if you were going to
Speaker 2: pick one thing about the job, there would be a complaint.
Speaker 2: Is it gets old non airplanes and traveling every week.
Speaker 2: That part of it's the only part that gets old,
Speaker 2: you know, And it's old for the people around you too,
Speaker 2: the people you're close to. You know, you're gone, But
Speaker 2: that's part of the deal. And the job is so good,
Speaker 2: like it's hard to complain about anything.
Speaker 1: Well, I think everybody listening is excited to see your
Speaker 1: boy Tom Kim play in twenty twenty four. I think Scott,
Speaker 1: I think the sky's the limit for this kid, and
Speaker 1: I think he has so many other things that are
Speaker 1: intangibles that can make up for some of the things
Speaker 1: from a toolbox standpoint, from a distant standpoint. I mean, listen,
Speaker 1: everybody can't be blessed with you know, Rory McElroy, Dustin
Speaker 1: Johnson type length and stuff. But I think he's got
Speaker 1: a lot of things. I'm so happy that you landed
Speaker 1: on your feet with a great player and you're winning again.
Speaker 1: And on a personal note, man, the negative side of
Speaker 1: this whole PGA Tour live thing is I just don't
Speaker 1: get to see you as much as I used to
Speaker 1: because to me, yes, I missed some of the players,
Speaker 1: but the people I miss the most are the behind
Speaker 1: the scenes people. Now that you know, the tours have
Speaker 1: kind of gone because I don't get other than a major,
Speaker 1: I don't really go on the big but I miss
Speaker 1: I missed the caddies. I miss you know, they're the
Speaker 1: cat To me, the caddies are the fabric of what
Speaker 1: professional golf is, right, I mean, to me, that's the
Speaker 1: glue that holds everything together. So I miss seeing you, man,
Speaker 1: but I'm happy for you. I'm not bullshit, you know.
Speaker 1: I think you're easily one of the best in the
Speaker 1: world at what you do and it's fun to watch
Speaker 1: you and Tom have all the success. Man.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks card, I appreciate it and I miss you too.
Speaker 1: So you know, I mean, if nothing else, I mean,
Speaker 1: if we'll see you Augusta, and we'll make sure that
Speaker 1: AJ gives you all the good aj isms because.
Speaker 3: I looked forward to those at all times.
Speaker 1: All right, man, great to talk to you. Scoviy, We'll
Speaker 1: see you soon, Bro.
Speaker 2: You got it to seek.
Speaker 1: So that was Joe Scoverrin. And like I said, if
Speaker 1: there is a better caddy in the professional game, I
Speaker 1: don't know who it is. I think when you have
Speaker 1: a player like Tom Kim at this stage of his career,
Speaker 1: a young player, having someone on the bag on the
Speaker 1: golf course with you, like Joe Scovern, I just think
Speaker 1: it's invaluable and I think it's going to be something
Speaker 1: that is going to be a differentiator in Tom Kim's
Speaker 1: career because to have someone on the bag like Scave
Speaker 1: down the stretch, Joe's not afraid. He knows how to win,
Speaker 1: and you have to have a caddy that knows how
Speaker 1: to win as much as you have to have a
Speaker 1: player that knows how to win if you're going to
Speaker 1: play on the PGA Tour. I want to thank everybody
Speaker 1: for listening, rate, review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts
Speaker 1: Son of It, which comes to you every Wednesday. We
Speaker 1: will see you next week.