WEBVTT - Pfizer Starting U.S. Trials for Experimental Vaccine 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.960 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.520 Jason Kelly. We're here every day bringing you the latest 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.800 news from the world of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.480 all harnessing the power of Bloomberg Business Week recorders and editors, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.759 not to mention our journalists and analysts more than a 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.520 hundred and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.439 on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You can also 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.880 listen to our radio show weekdays at two pm Eastern 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.960 only on Bloomberg Radio. It's Got a gut Check with 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:32.080 Drew Armstrong's team leader for US Healthcare for Bloomberg, leading 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.080 our coverage here in the United States on this working 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.400 closely with colleagues all around the world. Drew joins us 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.800 on the phone from New York. So, Drew, there's so 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.360 much to talk about. And I guess where I would 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.159 start is what's top of mind for you? What's the 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.080 most important thing you think we need to know since 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.640 you have of you over all of this, you know, 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.760 I think the thing that everybody is watching right now 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.640 is you know what I would almost think about is 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.480 kind of the second days of um, experimenting with how 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.920 we control this disease. You know, we in in February 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.280 and March, we went through a period of saying, Hey, 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:13.360 we're going to put in place all of these measures, 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.840 let's see if they work to stop to control the 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.720 spread of this thing. And now we're entering this phase 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.280 of reopening gradually now that we've learned a great deal 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:27.440 more about the disease, and saying what's going to happen next. 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.600 And I think both of these decisions were made it 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.360 at the times with a great deal of uncertainty, without 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:37.560 perfect information, UM. And you know, entering into the unknown 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.920 has been sort of the theme of this entire entire outbreak. UM. 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:47.600 And we're kind of watching a a great, a giant 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.000 set of experiments, UM, public health experiments being played out 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.000 in the United States right now with uncertain outcomes. Right. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:55.640 I feel like it's the one thing in terms of 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:57.680 the race for a vaccine where we've actually see some 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.960 global cooperation and sharing of information to try and to 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.520 try and get something as soon as possible. I do wonder, though, Drew, 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:06.960 what worries you the most the time is going to 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.600 take for a vaccine. What about this internal US government 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:15.200 projection that shows the nation's coronavirus outbreak, you know, accelerating 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:19.720 by June to more than two thousand new cases per day. 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:21.720 Is it the idea that you know, we get a 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.440 second wave here and it's really tough. What worries you 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:28.200 the most? You know, on this day here we are 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.040 May five, We've gone through a lot, But I just 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.760 would the first thing I want to do is actually 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:35.920 touch on that projection. I think, you know, I know 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.040 that was widely reported on yesterday. We you know, we 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.760 wrote about it as well in the in the White 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.079 House and some of the health agencies that whose names 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:45.799 on it, and it appeared to be involved that we're 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.520 not particularly helpful in creating um and providing any context 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.239 around you know, what was what assumptions went into that, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.560 you know, into that projection, and what actually was going 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.600 on there. Um. We have subsequently been told that, you know, 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:04.240 those numbers were attached to you know, if there was 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.320 no control at all on spread, no mitigation and so 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.200 on and so forth. So I think, you know, there's 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.000 some big scary numbers there. But I think some big 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.919 scary numbers that probably don't reflect reality on the ground. Um. 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.160 I think we are going to continue to obviously see 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:23.320 new cases and see um thousands of additional deaths around 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:25.560 the country. But I think in terms of the you know, 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.079 two hundred thousand new cases a day figure, I think 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.120 not a lot of people are currently projecting that to 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.560 be to be to be totally clear, And I think 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.240 it's important to to emphasize that, just because I know 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.840 that did catch a lot of people's attention. UM. You know, 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:42.800 moving on to your question about some of the some 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.600 of the vaccine work, UM. You know, I think there 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:50.040 are great, great hopes, UM, that that this effort will 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.920 be successful, UM, and that some of the drug companies 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.400 are working on this m on their own will be successful. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.560 But you know, there is there is not a long 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.440 history UM, for any history in the world of being 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.280 able to move move that quickly. UM. And I think 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.160 some of the hope is that we get therapeutic options. 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.240 You know, drugs are effectively treating the disease and the 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.280 severe patients who need it, not you know, the mild 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.680 people who don't. UM. That alleviate some of that burden 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:15.960 and reduce some of the risk to society and to 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.240 the health system. So Drew, I want to go back 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:20.760 to something you said at the beginning, because I think 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.560 it's really important this this sort of new phase we're 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.720 living in, which is which feels like living with this 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.479 for for some amount of time. And you know, you 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:35.000 touched on the vaccines as you look across this and 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.279 the reopening and you know, the sort of staggered reopening 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.520 that we see depending on where you're looking at in 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:44.960 the country. Ultimately, ultimately we are Bloomberg. We we look 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.760 at businesses in the economy. What do you see out 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:49.800 there that that you think is most important for us 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.159 to understand in terms of what we're learning about the 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.560 economic aspects of this. You know, I think you know, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.640 when you talk to people and you and you read 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.640 some of the reports coming in from another country, people 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.440 really and I figure out a new way of doing business. 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:03.960 I mean, you look at some of the poll numbers 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:08.880 where people think, you know, there is public concern about 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.240 lifting measures too soon. And if there's public concerned about 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.560 lifting measures too soon, those same people are all the 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.720 folks who are likely to say, well, you know, maybe 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.680 I'm not gonna go out to a restaurant just yet, 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.760 even if it's open um or maybe um, you know, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:24.800 even if they open the movie theaters back up, I 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.359 won't be the first person in there. I think, you know, 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.000 one of the ways that I've been thinking about this 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:32.560 is that we you know that there's there's this this 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:35.800 for a long time in advance of this, we're kind 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.000 of operating on the default of duty. Really have to 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.359 close everything down, you know, Really the right thing to 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.280 do is this, you know. I think the default was 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.400 towards not doing anything, and it was a surprise when 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:47.039 we did. We've not switched, i think societally for a 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:48.840 lot of people into a default mode where it's, well, 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:50.600 we've really let you to open things back up them 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.800 I really going to go back out and do all 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.000 the things that I was. I think a few people 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:59.159 anticipated that big of a shift in mindset um to 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.919 happen thatically and sport to be um that in scott 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:04.800 Now it could be that in three weeks, you know, 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:06.920 the sun is out and shining, people want only set 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.160 the house and being cooped up. I think we've all 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.279 seen people wanting to get out and be social um 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.680 and uh, and be out of their house and and 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.000 do some of these things. People. I think it very 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.920 much remains to be seeing how people behave in all 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:22.920 of this. We are kind of in an unprecedented time 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.320 and I think all of those things are are are 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.960 our factory that flows through to you know, continuely demand 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:29.680 and what people want and how they act. Well. I 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.080 think it'll be day by day and I think if 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.200 numbers start to go up in cases start to go up, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.200 We're all going to be like, oh okay, we can't 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:37.560 play around with this. It's such a good point to 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.000 arm Strong, team leader for US Health here for Bloomberg. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:44.880 Thank you. I love that framing because he's exactly right 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.000 that there's this sense and we get this from the 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.920 government's like people want to get out and then people 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.640 are like, I'm not so sure. You know, I am 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.080 such an amazing It's a really interesting way to frame 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.039 it in to think about it, and I hadn't thought 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.600 about it that distilled down so our thanks to drum story. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:02.360 They can build it, they can open it, but will 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:07.520 they come exactly exactly. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.680 Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Well, as 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.800 we alluded to just a few minutes ago, even amid 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.320 all of this, we could have a new Stock Exchange. 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:21.240 New Exchange put together by some names that you've heard of. 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.000 They've gotten the okay, but there is this whole matter 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.680 of trying to start a new business and a tech 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.080 heavy business and a people intensive business amid all of this. 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.200 Lenand Win has the story she's finding supporter for Bloomberg 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.800 Johinius on the phone from New York City. So, Lenan, 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.200 this is something that's been in the works for a while. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.520 M E m X. I believe it's called or do 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.360 they say, is there something cool that mems okay? I 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:51.760 figured that was probably um so tell us if that's cool. Well, Jason, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.880 one of the challenges of writing this story was that 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.239 there are so many household names that I can't include 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.680 all of them in in the actual story. But you know, 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.840 your Bank of America, Golden Sex, JP, Morgan on the 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.160 banking side, and then you've got Fidelity Trade on on 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.240 the kind of a retail side. So we've got a 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.720 lot of huge financial market players that are invested in 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.160 this firm, Virtue Citadel Securities as well. So we've got 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.400 a really big spectrum of different types of players and 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.320 they're all kind of getting in on this new exchange 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.400 and it seems that the exchange has been able to 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.640 do a lot of work from home. A lot of 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.720 what they do is cloud based, and so they've been 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:29.680 able to write a lot of the code even though 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:31.840 they haven't really been able to go physically to the 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.960 servers during the coronavirus pandemic. So there's been some delay, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.319 but it seems like things are starting to pick up again. 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:42.000 Remind us why they want their own exchange. So a 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.480 lot of these players have been complaining for a long 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.960 time about the high fees that are charged by the 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.840 incoming exchanges. We're talking the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAC, 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.560 and they've been particularly angry about the high price of 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.840 market data um and that sounds like a very sort 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.000 of routine thing, but we're you're talking about firms that 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.120 trade at increasingly high speeds, you know, at the blink 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.560 of an eye. The amount of data that they need 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.160 is very very high, and they get charged high fees 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.560 for that. So they've been very very upset about that, 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.080 and so upset that they decided to start their own exchange. 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.439 And so, what's a realistic timeline for this to get 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:20.440 up and running given everything that's happening in the world. 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.600 N So, Jonathan Keill know the CEO, and I spoke 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.480 this morning and he says they're still very aggressively trying 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.200 to meet that three Q on target that they've reset 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:34.800 for themselves, which means hopefully starting to test the systems 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.840 this quarter with their participants, you know, doing some of 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.800 the technology testing and platforms and connecting to the system 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.920 and then eventually going for a third quarter launch. So 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.920 that sounds aggressive, but again they're working super hard and 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.800 they've got the backing of some very big investors making 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.679 this Who wins who loses? How does this change kind 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.560 of the investment world, the trading world as we know 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:56.280 it or I have known it for a long time 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.520 lean in so this is a big question. But I 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.760 think what the exchange Memics is trying to do is 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:07.080 to put pressure on the incumbents to reduce their fees. UM. 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.160 I think there is a potential for this exchange to 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.920 win because they've got so many big backers and obviously, 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.280 um they're going to be competing on price, and so 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.520 they're hoping to drive down prices across the board. So 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.320 it's possible that the retail investors and any other investors 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:23.880 who are in the equity markets will will benefit if 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.679 they are this exchange is successful in driving down prices 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.319 because ultimately these are the sorts of fees that end 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.800 up in some form of fashion with both institutional and 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.560 as you say, retail investors to write that's right, and 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.719 so um. You know, the the equity market is a 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.480 very complex place. But one of the key sticking points 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.520 has been that in order to make money in this market, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.000 in order to sort of make the maximum profit at 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.480 lowest costs, you have to drive down the fees. And 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.679 if your institution is being charged very high fees, then 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.280 you just can't do that. So everyone is really trying to, 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.360 you know, push the market to zero here right where, 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.760 and and even a fraction of whether it's you know, 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.160 the margins have gotten so tight, and I feel like 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.120 so many of these trades, right, so it makes a difference. Potentially, 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.960 It certainly does. And um, yes, margins are very tight, 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.400 and that has led to a pretty fractious environment in 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.680 the equity markets, and it's caused many players to say, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.440 forget it, we're going off on our own right exactly, 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:24.240 all right, Well, it's an important story. One of the 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.200 most read not surprisingly on the terminal, given who our 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.720 audiences and given as you say, Lennan, all the big 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.120 names involved in this. Everybody, it feels like, is trying 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:36.439 to figure out this new world order. And it does 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.400 take me back here, and I think you're alluding to this, 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.199 you know, even the race to zero when you think 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.560 about commissions and fees with the big brokerage houses, bit 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.280 suab or uh any of the other big names. All Right, 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.320 Lennon Win, thank you so much. Finding a supporter for 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:54.520 Bloomberg jinus on the phone from New York City. Yeah, 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:56.800 looking forward to seeing how that plays, because I know 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.320 they've had some dates on the calendar for this year. 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.880 I think you're trying it all out and and getting 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.400 it going. So we'll see whether or not the virus 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.480 somehow um prevents them from doing that, or as they said, 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.160 everybody's been working at home and they've had time to 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.000 kind of maybe move ahead on things. This is Bloomberg 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:15.880 Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Well, 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.560 the virus pandemic has forced the US government to certainly 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.640 take on a much bigger role in the US economy. 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.280 It's also kicked off conversations and debates about a new 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:27.720 American industrial policy. Sean Donnin covers this in Bloomberg Business 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.559 Week magazine. The story online at Bloomberg Dot comment on 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.480 newsstands later on this week, shown of course Bloomberg New 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.160 Senior Trade reporter. He's on the phone from Maryland. Also 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.800 with us is Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber on 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.800 the phone from Brooklyn. So this is a story, right, 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:47.800 we are at an interesting time certainly in our political history, 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.000 that's right. And you know, one of the things that 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.320 I think we've been talking about a lot, just at 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.840 least as a staff, it's sort of like, what are 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.440 the ways that this is going to start to change things? 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.240 And and some of these things are like ones we 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:02.840 you know, might not change for the best, and other 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:04.719 ones are are I think you get to a more 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:09.719 strategic and in some cases almost a nationalistic kind of perspective. 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.480 And I think that's where Sean came in with this idea. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.640 He kind of raised his hand and said, have we 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:18.160 have we thought about industrial policy? And like how America's 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.800 the industrial policy might change out of all this, and 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.319 that let him down the rabbit hole. Um, Sean where where? 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.800 What did you find as you started to think and 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.720 report this article up? Yeah, So, I mean I've been 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.560 covering the trade wards for the last couple of years, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.880 and if if you think about that, that's been really 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:38.560 about defense, putting up tariffs, trying to defend sectors in 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.680 the American economy. And one of the things that we've 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.160 seen U as a result of this pandemic is people 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:46.600 really thinking about how do you encourage more production at 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.959 home and how do you do that. Well, in the past, 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.160 that's been through this thing industrial policy, which for a 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.120 lot of Republicans and a lot of the the kind 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.920 of free marketers of free marketeers uh in in in 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.880 the US has been in the taboo, you know, we 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.760 we don't like in the US to encourage or to 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.040 think that we're picking winners and losers in the private sector. 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:11.920 That's certainly been the rhetoric that has come out of 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.560 the Republican Party for decades. Well, now when we're having 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.600 this conversation about what the U. S economy should look like, 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.400 how prepared it should be to respond to a pandemic, 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.720 where we should be producing things like masks and other 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.560 productive equipment or ventilators we're starting to get into the 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.760 realm of having a real conversation about how government should 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:36.960 direct production, industrial production, and and industrial policy. It's worth 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.080 saying that, you know, America has been here before. H 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.640 During the Cold War, we certainly saw ramping up of 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.440 the military industrial complex. We know that the space race 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:51.000 gave us all sorts of great private sector products. We 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.440 know that the GPS uh that is in our car 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.360 comes out of, in part, a need for the U. S. 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:02.560 Military to have like runic navigation tools uh, and so on. 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.160 The question now though in the selection year, is is 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.920 where are we going to go next? So today, and 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:10.680 you know, one of the one of the things that 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.720 you really focused on in the article is about rare earths, 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.040 which obviously has become sort of the topic of in 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.560 part because of the trade war, because we realized how 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.040 much of this is actually coming from China. So what 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.400 did you discover when you started to talk to people 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.880 in that space. Yeah, so rare earth is this? Uh, 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.600 there's seventeen of them. Uh. There are these minerals that 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.480 are using everything from smartphones to ballistic missiles. Uh. And 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.040 there's only one mine in the United States right now 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.480 that's up and running and that produces these things, and 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:43.520 that's the Mountain Pass mine in California and the Mohaba Desert. Uh. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:48.000 It actually though, has to send what it produces to 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:53.480 China to be refined into these actual usable minerals. Uh 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.000 and then they're sent back to to the U. S. 0:15:56.280 --> 0:16:00.440 And UH. The owner of that mind is now saying, 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.080 you know what, I need some help from the government, 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.800 and I need the government to do more to encourage 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:11.440 the use of this stuff by big domestic manufacturers and 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:16.920 that's companies like Tesla, Apple and so on, so that 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.200 we can get production here in the United States and 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.160 it makes sense economically. And Seohn, I love that you 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.440 name check uh, some well known names in here to 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.720 frame this debate from a political perspective, because Peter Navarro 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.680 obviously has come to the four in a number of 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.080 issues that you were intimately familiar with of the past 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.120 couple of years when it comes to trade. But we're 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:43.160 also looking at some different generations and maybe different political 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:48.520 philosophies within the GOP that are all sort of circling 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.000 around this. Help us understand that piece of it. Yeah, Look, 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.680 I mean we are all focused on how Donald Trump 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:58.080 has changed the economic conversation on trade and uh even 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.760 the role of government and its relationship it with business 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:05.080 from a Republican Party context. But what's really interesting is 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.520 is what's going to come after Donald Trump? Even if 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:09.399 he's elected to a second term, there will be an 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.959 after Donald Trump. And there is this new generation of 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:17.120 rising stars in the Republican Party, people like Marco Rubio, 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.800 Josh Holly from Missouri, Tom Cotton who's also in the Senate, 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.840 who all have a more of an economic nationalist event, 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.359 and they're into this thing of an industrial policy. In fact, 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:34.840 even before the current crisis, Marco Rubio was giving speeches 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.400 laying out a vision of a new American industrial policy 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.240 and arguing that that is actually a kind of great 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.040 American tradition and that's something that the Republican Party should embrace. 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.040 So Sean, where is corporate America? Where is actually the 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.840 global corporate world on all of this, Because any CEO 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.479 that I talked to the plays in the global world. 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:58.000 They are concerned about increased nationalism and focus on your 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.159 local market, although they're doing more a supply chains in 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.960 their local markets and more production. But I'm just curious, 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.000 where does the corporate world fit into all of this. Look, 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:08.880 I don't I don't think the business world has ever 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.760 liked the idea of the government telling it what to do, 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:13.840 and I don't think that has changed in any way. 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.440 But the business world is kind of stuck right now 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.359 because there is this this crisis going on, and in 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.119 the crisis, people start getting back to some pretty basic 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:28.119 instincts and they like to see things like domestic production. 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.919 And I think a lot of people in America UH 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:35.360 today would probably not have minded a stronger hand from 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.400 government in encouraging more domestic production or at least more 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:43.800 domestic stock piling of personal protective equipment, which has been 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.440 so vital in dealing with this pandemic. We'll see where 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.879 this all shakes out after the election. It's clear that 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.080 this is gonna be a big topic of discussion between 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:56.240 now November. Whoever wins that race UH in November, is 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.040 going to come in early next year into the White House, 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:00.400 and this is one of the big thing are gonna 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.960 have to wrestle with. Well, and interesting on a day 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:09.359 where the President is out in Arizona at Honeywell, I 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.920 mean this fits the narrative in some ways, right John, Yeah, 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.400 And look and That's the interesting part of this conversation 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.200 that maybe we don't talk enough about where we all 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:22.199 have had this this this fear that too much of uh, 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:24.600 you know, that we are too reliant here in the 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.080 United States on China and overseas production and and these 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.400 global supply chains. But one of the really remarkable stories 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.200 of the last six weeks or so has been how 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.520 the US manufacturing sector has really ramped things up. You know, 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.840 we know the big automakers are now producing ventilators, Ralph 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:45.800 Lauren is doing a personal protective equipment and and and 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.320 the hospital scrubs, uh, you know, in the Honeywell, which 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.560 is one of the big producers of these nine masks, 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.120 has been ramping up production as well. So, I mean, 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.760 we have seen in the last six weeks American in 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.400 street really jump on this and and take advantage and 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.359 come to the fort. Would be interesting to see what 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.720 we learned from that forward when it comes to draft 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.520 and Pulse. I feel like it will be in the 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.359 history books and the economic books going forward. It's like 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.880 we're at that time, all right, Sean Donn and thank 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.000 you so much. Our thanks to Joel Webber as well 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:27.040 brom A Journal. But you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no, 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.600 who's going to drive home? Honey? Please, I'll do the 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:39.399 riding drivels me. I want to drive, Just drive baby. 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:51.520