Speaker 1: Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversial list. I'm
Speaker 1: Britney Spanis and.
Speaker 2: I'm Rob Sheffield and we're here to shed light on
Speaker 2: the greatest songs ever made and talk about what makes
Speaker 2: them so great.
Speaker 1: So today we have a song by an artist we
Speaker 1: have a lot to say about and we love and
Speaker 1: recently both saw live Madonna. Into the Groove by Madonna.
Speaker 1: This is one of three songs by Madonna on the list.
Speaker 1: In the previous list, only Like a Prayer had made
Speaker 1: the list before. I was at number three hundred in
Speaker 1: the earlier versions. And in this list we have Into
Speaker 1: the Groove at one six ' one. We have Vogue
Speaker 1: on the list, and we.
Speaker 3: Have Like a Prayer.
Speaker 1: And today we're going to talk about Into the Groove, though,
Speaker 1: which is a song from the Desperately Seeking Susan soundtrack,
Speaker 1: great film. I don't even know where to begin with this.
Speaker 1: I feel like we've been talking about Madonna even before this.
Speaker 1: We're talking about Madonna constantly. I guess I want to know, like,
Speaker 1: do you remember hearing the song for the first time?
Speaker 1: Was it in the movie? Was it on the rat
Speaker 1: What was your experience with Into the Groove.
Speaker 2: On the radio before it was on the movie. It
Speaker 2: was a song that was in the movie, which was brilliant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the greatest.
Speaker 2: Film of the eighties in the Madonna cinematography department, except
Speaker 2: Maybe Who's That Girl, which is also a brilliant eighties
Speaker 2: Madonna movie. Into the Groove had a really different, lean, mean,
Speaker 2: electric sound. It was very stripped down, it was very
Speaker 2: low fi. It just sounded very punk rock. It was
Speaker 2: very aggressive, just you know, a girl in a beat
Speaker 2: box and everything about it. Even by the standards that
Speaker 2: Madonna had already created as a pop star, this song
Speaker 2: was absolute, absolutely electric, absolutely irresistible. Into the Groove is
Speaker 2: really confrontational musically, vocally, in every way and completely impossible
Speaker 2: to avoid. One of the best videos of the era
Speaker 2: of videos where it's clips from a hit movie. And
Speaker 2: you know, there were so many of those, so many
Speaker 2: of those that made bad movies look fun. You know,
Speaker 2: so many people went to see Flash Dance because the
Speaker 2: maniac video was so much fun. Yeah, Flash Dance is
Speaker 2: no fun. It's a terrible movie. Whereas you saw Into
Speaker 2: the Groove and you saw Madonna in that club scene,
Speaker 2: and that alone tells you everything that you want to
Speaker 2: know about what makes this movie a classic.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean this was the song came after
Speaker 1: Madonna's first two albums are self titled, and like a virgin.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was already like Madonna fever was taking over.
Speaker 1: There was like women were dressy as Madonna and like
Speaker 1: wanting to like be Madonna. She was already becoming like
Speaker 1: this massive, massive icon. She didn't even go on her
Speaker 1: first tour until after Into the Groove came out, until
Speaker 1: that summer was like a virgin tour. And I mean
Speaker 1: just to even kind of like have that have that
Speaker 1: kind of like phenomenon already exist from someone who in
Speaker 1: pop history, no one has ever wanted to be a
Speaker 1: pop star more than probably Madonna. Like she is, like
Speaker 1: everyone thinks they want to be a pop star as
Speaker 1: much as Madonna did, but I feel like it's like
Speaker 1: unmatched in the level of like desiring kind of the
Speaker 1: bigness of it that Madonna had. And she was very
Speaker 1: good at being a pop star and becoming that pop star.
Speaker 1: But I mean to think even just before this song
Speaker 1: came out, before she isn't desperately seeking Susan, which was
Speaker 1: a movie that like Diane Keaton and Mellie Griffiths wanted
Speaker 1: the role of Susan in the film, and the director
Speaker 1: gave it to Madonna because she was like, this girl
Speaker 1: seems cool like and she does it so well. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a crazy kind of timeline to
Speaker 1: think about now, I guess in the context of who
Speaker 1: Madonna was and kind of how everything came together at
Speaker 1: that time.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and her huge musical energy, which at that point
Speaker 2: she was not really given credit for. She was very
Speaker 2: widely dismissed as just someone who was just an anonymous,
Speaker 2: replaceable pop starlett Into the Groove, that was really where
Speaker 2: she put her personality front and center, not just her
Speaker 2: vocal personality, and her personality is very demanding, pushy, impossible
Speaker 2: to ignore in that song, but also her punk rock
Speaker 2: energy and very much when she started she was cross
Speaker 2: combination of different scenes in New York, the club scene,
Speaker 2: the disco scene, the hip hop scene, and the new
Speaker 2: wave dance scene, as well as the punk rock scene. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know was the Detroit she was from was very
Speaker 2: much punk rock, sort of ground zero and Into the
Speaker 2: Groove which was really just a stripped down punk rock
Speaker 2: in your face approach to the pop and disco that
Speaker 2: had made her famous. It really completely blew people's minds,
Speaker 2: even people who already liked Madonna.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I think also, I mean, even to this day,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so much of her her writing
Speaker 1: is so underrated. And this is a song that she
Speaker 1: wrote with Stephen Bray. I mean, the Bridge is something
Speaker 1: there's a great quote from Stephen Bray about just like
Speaker 1: her just being on the microphone and suddenly having this
Speaker 1: like live out your fantasy here with me, like on
Speaker 1: the bridge and kind of making the song so much
Speaker 1: better by just all this music pouring out of her.
Speaker 1: Like her, her writing abilities are something that I feel
Speaker 1: like goes so so uncredited in who she is as
Speaker 1: a pop star, especially during this time, and really comes
Speaker 1: across so much in the.
Speaker 2: Song Absolutely Yeah. I mean. One of the things that
Speaker 2: people always overlook most about Madonna is her musicality. And
Speaker 2: it's funny that it's almost always the last thing people
Speaker 2: talk about when they talk about Madonna. Her songwriting, her
Speaker 2: musical imagination, which always came first with her and was
Speaker 2: always very explicitly first. It's the part of her act
Speaker 2: that people always took for granted and still take for granted. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but Into the Groove sounded like nobody else had, sounded
Speaker 2: like nothing else.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's also that thing of all of the kind
Speaker 1: of like the stunts and the controversy, none of those
Speaker 1: are effective without those songs being great. Like I mean,
Speaker 1: even like the like a prayer video, that video and
Speaker 1: the controversy that it made with the Catholic Church and
Speaker 1: kind of having these burning crosses. I mean, just like
Speaker 1: with that entire song would not be effective if that
Speaker 1: song wasn't absolutely perfect, Like that's a great song, you know,
Speaker 1: like a virgin too. I mean, just like the way
Speaker 1: that she delivers that song, I mean, her kind of
Speaker 1: writhing on the VMA floor is like it doesn't work
Speaker 1: if that song's not good. And everything that she's done since,
Speaker 1: you know, making comebacks in her forties and fifties and sixties,
Speaker 1: like it's like making new music and making new kind
Speaker 1: of risk with her music is like none of it's
Speaker 1: effective without the fact that she has like such a
Speaker 1: kind of brilliant mind and ear for you know, trying
Speaker 1: out new things and being kind of willing to see
Speaker 1: how she can sort of place herself in the context
Speaker 1: of a scene or of a time in music.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Of course, we've talked.
Speaker 1: About Ray of Light a lot in over over the
Speaker 1: time that we've known each other, because we both love
Speaker 1: that song and album. But like that is another great
Speaker 1: example of like, there's this amazing kind of dance happy
Speaker 1: in the late nineties, and Madonna fits right in and
Speaker 1: she makes it work for herself and reinvents it and
Speaker 1: like makes an album that comes to define the entire
Speaker 1: era of music, you know, and continues to do that
Speaker 1: over the course of her career. So it's always kind
Speaker 1: of crazy when when people sort of downgrade how kind
Speaker 1: of brilliantly musical she is in all those ways, because
Speaker 1: none of those things will be effective without a great.
Speaker 2: Song, absolutely, And it's something that, you know, because if
Speaker 2: she was so controversial about every aspect of her pop stardom,
Speaker 2: people tended to overlook how committed she was to music.
Speaker 2: People assumed that that part of it she had no
Speaker 2: interest in. Yeah, Shockingly, Rolling Stone magazine was not a
Speaker 2: huge fan of Madonna when she showed up, And I
Speaker 2: always remember a great line that one of Rolling Stone's
Speaker 2: top music journalists at the time had to say about
Speaker 2: her was maybe she'll move on to movies though anywhere
Speaker 2: we'll do. That was a great line, right, great line.
Speaker 2: So many people sincerely believe that about Madonna, even people
Speaker 2: who really loved her music, assumed that she was just
Speaker 2: in it to be a famous person. She'd move on
Speaker 2: to movies, she'd move on to TV, she'd move on
Speaker 2: to anything. And it turned out not just music, but
Speaker 2: dance music was a lifelong passion for her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the funniest thing is that some of her
Speaker 1: greatest songs were just on the soundtracks for her movies,
Speaker 1: Like thinking about Vogue being on the soundtrack to Dick.
Speaker 2: Tracy, unbelievable, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Vogue, groundbreaking song in so many ways. Again on the list,
Speaker 1: like that song is on the Dick Tracy soundtrack. It
Speaker 1: was insane thing in the entire world of all the movies.
Speaker 2: Unbelievable, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And I mean with into the Groove, I was reading
Speaker 1: a little bit about the history of the song and
Speaker 1: how she originally co wrote it with Stephen Bray for
Speaker 1: another artist, and it was with the producer of Everybody
Speaker 1: was going to buy the song and give it to
Speaker 1: his fifteen year old proge and then Madonna took it back,
Speaker 1: which is like kind of peak Madonna. She had a
Speaker 1: great quote that I was reading about from a biographer
Speaker 1: and like the early two thousands where she was just
Speaker 1: like saying that I'm tough, I'm ambitious, and I know
Speaker 1: exactly what I want. If that makes me a bitch,
Speaker 1: that's okay, which is a very peak Madonna quotable.
Speaker 2: She was so scary. Oh my gosh, she was really scary,
Speaker 2: and she would say shit like that. I always remember
Speaker 2: something she said about how she wanted to look the
Speaker 2: way Ronnie Specter sounded yeah, and I was like, Wow,
Speaker 2: what a thing to say. Yeah, she would just you know,
Speaker 2: she always thought. She was always a scholar of pop history.
Speaker 2: She was always somebody who knew all different types of
Speaker 2: music and was willing to steal from all different types
Speaker 2: of music. It came out in even the simplest songs
Speaker 2: that she did. Yeah, and you know, like you said,
Speaker 2: Into the Groove a very simple song in many ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I feel like Into the Groove is sort
Speaker 1: of the I mean, maybe her first great dance record
Speaker 1: before and kind of set the precedent for the rest
Speaker 1: of her her career of kind of really kind of
Speaker 1: reinventing and continuing to really hone in on her own
Speaker 1: skills as like a great singer of amazing club tracks,
Speaker 1: an amazing dance t but they.
Speaker 2: Both all her, and it's funny to think of the
Speaker 2: decades in between those songs, yeah, and that they're both
Speaker 2: distinctly her specific musical and vocal personality. Madonna was the
Speaker 2: type of eighties artist that people expected to fade away
Speaker 2: very quickly, and for her staying power as an artist,
Speaker 2: it's well to think that hung Up was her, you know,
Speaker 2: thirty years after into the Groove, and yet this was,
Speaker 2: you know, clearly the same artist, with the same sense
Speaker 2: of fun, the same sense of mischief, and that kind
Speaker 2: of continuity over the years is surprising, but it's it's
Speaker 2: very Madonna.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like even with everything being so different over the
Speaker 1: course of her career, like it's still she's able to
Speaker 1: reinvent herself with kind of that still like ethos and
Speaker 1: personality of who she is and every single thing. Like
Speaker 1: she's able to really be so good at reinventing herself
Speaker 1: while still like making sure it's like no one else
Speaker 1: can really do this the way that I'm Madonna can
Speaker 1: do this one of the Madonna songs that you feel
Speaker 1: well should have or could have made the cut, or
Speaker 1: do you think this is the perfect three songs that
Speaker 1: made the list.
Speaker 2: With Madonna, it's funny how many of her great songs
Speaker 2: were hits, but also how many great ones she left
Speaker 2: stranded on her albums. Promised to dry on Like a Prayer,
Speaker 2: I see Like a Prayer is just a perfect album.
Speaker 2: And it's why when you think of the songs that
Speaker 2: become hits and the songs that don't. You mentioned The
Speaker 2: Immaculate Collection, which is one of the most famous greatest
Speaker 2: hits albums of all time perfect name Yes, coming at
Speaker 2: the end of the eighties for her. It's funny you
Speaker 2: look at that album and it leaves out so many
Speaker 2: of her huge hits from the eighties. It skips Who's
Speaker 2: That Girl, which was an actual number one hit from
Speaker 2: eighty seven. It's really wild to think of Madonna in
Speaker 2: that period with someone who who could leave a number
Speaker 2: one hit off her greatest hits album, Angel, which is
Speaker 2: one of my very favorites, and Dress You Up, another
Speaker 2: one of my favorites. Those are both left off the
Speaker 2: Immaculate Collection. Angel is a I mean it was a hit.
Speaker 3: It a hit.
Speaker 2: She had so many radio hits in that era, and
Speaker 2: yet that one kind of falls by the wayside. But
Speaker 2: I think that's just an unbelievably perfect song.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean we both went to the Celebration tour as
Speaker 1: it came through. I went to the Brooklyn show. Did
Speaker 1: you go to Massis Square Garden?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even in the time since I went
Speaker 1: to that show. In early December, Ariana Grande drops a
Speaker 1: song that is sampling and referencing Vogue. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like so funny that that's like just something that's kind
Speaker 1: of part of the cycle constantly. And of course that
Speaker 1: song was a few years ago. Beyonce did a Break
Speaker 1: My Soul remix with Vague. You know, it's like every
Speaker 1: every artist is kind of referencing or nodding to Madonna constantly,
Speaker 1: which is just like being able to see her in concert,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yes, like this is truly. She
Speaker 1: has such a blueprint for everything.
Speaker 2: For everything, and such a huge emotional appetite. It's funny
Speaker 2: that there are so many hits, you know, we're talking
Speaker 2: about the hits that aren't just famous, but so many
Speaker 2: of her really emotional sentimental, intense sort of ballads are
Speaker 2: ones that often get lost in the shuffle again just
Speaker 2: out of a sheer quantity of hits. But this used
Speaker 2: to be My Playground was such a beautiful song and
Speaker 2: for so many artists would be like a classic that
Speaker 2: they would you know, model the rest of their career on.
Speaker 2: And from Madonna, it was like just another smash hit
Speaker 2: that was from a soundtrack that she moved on from
Speaker 2: very quickly. Yeah, but she just left so many great
Speaker 2: songs like that all over every phase of her career.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe let's talk a little bit about Desperately Seeking
Speaker 1: Season because we haven't talked about it enough, Which is
Speaker 1: that I watched the film for the first time a
Speaker 1: few years ago, just like again like the trajrectory of
Speaker 1: like what is happening in those first few years of
Speaker 1: Madonna's career. It's just like so funny to look back
Speaker 1: on and like piece that timeline together and be like
Speaker 1: how did this happen? And like how kind of like
Speaker 1: cosmic and amazing that it was that this all kind
Speaker 1: of happened at once. But I mean, she's like perfect
Speaker 1: as this like bohemian drifter in the film, and with
Speaker 1: Rosanna Archett. I think it's just like such a perfect
Speaker 1: movie for her to kind of have out the.
Speaker 2: Gate with this. Yes, and it's so funny that it's
Speaker 2: a movie that's so saturated and hipster dumb in a
Speaker 2: way that is so true to who Madonna is because
Speaker 2: she really comes from that downtown scene. But it's also
Speaker 2: really funny that, you know, it's the world's biggest pop
Speaker 2: star at the time, which nobody expected when she was
Speaker 2: actually making the movie. And she's in this movie and
Speaker 2: there's bit parts for Richard Hell as the dead guy
Speaker 2: she wakes up in bed with. You know, Arta Lindsay
Speaker 2: is in the song, and Magnuson is in the song.
Speaker 2: All these people who are really obscure New York bohemia
Speaker 2: nightlife figures in the early eighties are in this movie.
Speaker 2: The writing is so funny, way above like what people
Speaker 2: were expecting. This wasn't a star vehicle. This movie is
Speaker 2: always shocking how brilliant it is in every detail, on
Speaker 2: every level.
Speaker 1: I know, I love Rosanna Arcuat being like, let me
Speaker 1: make a second after Hours, but this time with Madonna.
Speaker 2: Who can forget the Rolling Stone cover with Madonna and
Speaker 2: Rosanna Arquette from the moment when they were equivalently roughly
Speaker 2: on the same level to co star in a movie
Speaker 2: like this, And it's wild that in the movie, Rosanna
Speaker 2: Arquette is so brilliant, so funny playing this really bored, frustrated,
Speaker 2: annoyed person in this really horrible marriage. And there's this
Speaker 2: great scene where Madonna is invading her house and reading
Speaker 2: her diary. She says, it's got to be a code,
Speaker 2: because nobody's life could really be this boring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's so like, she's so charming and fun and
Speaker 1: like it's such like a perfect kind of I know
Speaker 1: all of these like multi hyphen it things of Madonna,
Speaker 1: Like she really is like able to capture so much
Speaker 1: of that in this movie where she's essentially playing herself. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is essentially playing this like heightened Madonna who's not
Speaker 1: a pop star, who in this universe Madonna also still
Speaker 1: exists because she puts on the jukebox and into the
Speaker 1: groove plays.
Speaker 2: Yes, I you watch this scary New York from the eighties,
Speaker 2: and it's really scary eighties New York. But it's wild
Speaker 2: that there's this scene where Madonna's like, let's go to
Speaker 2: the goth club and it's this totally improvised last minute scene.
Speaker 2: They were like, wait a minute, we have this movie
Speaker 2: coming out of comedy starring Madonna, and we don't have
Speaker 2: a scene where she's actually in a club dancing. We
Speaker 2: need to stick that in. And so, you know, those
Speaker 2: were just the people who are hanging out in the club,
Speaker 2: the goth guid doing the cobweb gathering dance. You know,
Speaker 2: he alone is such a goth icon who inspired so
Speaker 2: many goth kids over the years, just by being himself
Speaker 2: dancing in the corner of this Madonna video and it
Speaker 2: keeps cutting to him, and all the people on the
Speaker 2: dance floor are stars in that scene. And Madonna's just
Speaker 2: so brash, so brazen, even her dancing. Honestly, Like, who
Speaker 2: goes into a public restroom in New York and does
Speaker 2: not imagine what if I just turned on the hand
Speaker 2: dryer and just dried my underarms in this public restroom.
Speaker 2: What if people stare at me? Who cares? I'm Madonna,
Speaker 2: I'm this cool. I can get away with this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: at least once a year I walk into a restroom
Speaker 2: and I think maybe this is the day I'll do it.
Speaker 2: Who could be that fearless and brazen.
Speaker 1: We're all striving to recreate Madonna's New York God.
Speaker 2: We all are. Yes.
Speaker 1: Well, when we get back, we will be joined by
Speaker 1: Susi x Spasido to talk more Madonna. And we're back
Speaker 1: with Susi x Spasito, a multi hyphenate of Madonna proportion.
Speaker 1: She's a writer, editor, singer, DJ icon, legend, star.
Speaker 2: Genius, queen of the universe, and huge hero to both
Speaker 2: Brittany and me.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I really appreciate the fanfare, as you
Speaker 4: both know, I'm huge fans of yours.
Speaker 1: And we're very excited to talk about Madonna, who is
Speaker 1: someone that we all have a lot of feelings and
Speaker 1: opinions and favorite Madonnas. So, Susie, can you tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit of your Madonna history, your personal history
Speaker 1: with listening to Madonna.
Speaker 3: Well, listen, it starts with my father.
Speaker 4: He is a very loud Cuban American man born in
Speaker 4: Jersey City, New Jersey, and he happened to be.
Speaker 3: In New York City at the right place, at the
Speaker 3: right time.
Speaker 4: He told me that he met Madonna in nineteen eighty
Speaker 4: two at the Palladium.
Speaker 3: Wow in Manhattan. Oh Yeah, because she used to hang out.
Speaker 4: I mean, she was part of the downtown scene, and
Speaker 4: my dad was kind of a club kid.
Speaker 3: You know, he would go to punk shows, you go
Speaker 3: to dance Aityria.
Speaker 4: He just has all these ridiculous stories. But my favorite
Speaker 4: thing about his stories is he told me how much
Speaker 4: Madonna absolutely loved Latino men. And I think, you know,
Speaker 4: talking about Into the Groove, which was inspired by a Latino.
Speaker 3: I think it's very fitting that I'm on this podcast.
Speaker 4: Clearly Madonna made a huge impression on my dad, on
Speaker 4: my family.
Speaker 3: You know, I grew up listening to her.
Speaker 4: My dad bought every single album of hers as it
Speaker 4: came out, and so I yeah, she's left an indelible
Speaker 4: mark on my psyche. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And with Into the Groove, you talked about the origin
Speaker 1: of it, which I think it's I was reading about
Speaker 1: the story and it's like such like a I love
Speaker 1: a good, like horny like origin story for a song,
Speaker 1: which is like she was like seeing her neighbor dance
Speaker 1: across the hall or something, and she said she finished
Speaker 1: the song by the time they went on their last date.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like a perfect kind of Madonna
Speaker 1: eighties story. Origin of like how she wrote this even
Speaker 1: before it found its home and desperately seeking Susan and
Speaker 1: like where it was meant to be. But I love
Speaker 1: a very kind of like peak Madonna horny origin story
Speaker 1: for a song.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I love how I feel like desperately
Speaker 3: Seeking Susan.
Speaker 4: I don't think it would have been the movie that
Speaker 4: it was without her without that song.
Speaker 3: I think that song really breathed life into it.
Speaker 1: And where does Into the Groove land for you? In
Speaker 1: like your sort of Madonna rankings of her music.
Speaker 3: It's a forever classic. I feel like I don't know
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 4: It's like I have moods, and Madonna has a song
Speaker 4: for every mood that I'm in and when I'm tearing
Speaker 4: it up at karaoke, like Into the Groove is definitely
Speaker 4: one of my one of my favorite like karaoke picks,
Speaker 4: either either I sing it or somebody else.
Speaker 3: Does you know it's a little.
Speaker 4: High for me range wise, but yeah, it's like, you know,
Speaker 4: it's the song that it was her biggest song. It
Speaker 4: was the song she really made a splash with. I
Speaker 4: think what's so wild to me is that she this
Speaker 4: was like in nineteen eighty five, but she was. She
Speaker 4: was like a downtown girl.
Speaker 3: You know. She would kick it with the no Wave people.
Speaker 3: That's how downtown she was, you know. So for her
Speaker 3: to do a song like Into the Groove, I mean
Speaker 3: she had range. Yeah. For me, I would definitely rank
Speaker 3: it up high.
Speaker 4: But I also, you know, I love the artie Madonna
Speaker 4: as well, the really moody, like you know, low range singer.
Speaker 4: When she gets into like her goss, when she gets
Speaker 4: into her little goth vibes, or like her moody trip
Speaker 4: hop Nellie Hooper vibes, I feel.
Speaker 3: Like those rank higher than probably the rest of the
Speaker 3: general public for me. But Into the Groove you can't
Speaker 3: go wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you, as a goth
Speaker 2: punk girl, how the gothness of the club scene in
Speaker 2: Desperately Seeking Susan, which people saw because of the MTV
Speaker 2: video and all the cobweb dancing in the video. Was
Speaker 2: that a goth moment for you as a formative Madonna fan.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 3: I remember watching that movie with my dad and he's like,
Speaker 3: look at this, look at this.
Speaker 4: I was there, I was in this club, you know,
Speaker 4: and at that time I was like, yeah, yeah, Dad, whatever,
Speaker 4: probably making stuff up, but no I came to I mean,
Speaker 4: it was definitely embedded in my mind, like, Okay, I
Speaker 4: want to do that one day, And sure enough I
Speaker 4: moved to New York at seventeen and looked for the
Speaker 4: same thing. The only problem is it was two thousand
Speaker 4: and seven and it was very recession core and everyone
Speaker 4: was wearing neon, so it was a little different.
Speaker 1: Be the gos Madonna you want to see in the world, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: You mentioned about singing her in karaoke, and I think,
Speaker 1: especially as our queen vocalist, like I want to talk
Speaker 1: about Madonna's voice a little bit because I think there's
Speaker 1: it's so fascinating, like how there was so much critique
Speaker 1: of it and so much of like the idea, and
Speaker 1: there was even periods where she talked about the fact
Speaker 1: that she didn't think that she was the greatest singer.
Speaker 1: But I actually, like, I love so much of her
Speaker 1: vocal performance on this song in particular. But there is
Speaker 1: she has that sort of kind of like higher register
Speaker 1: songs that make them sometimes pretty difficult to try to
Speaker 1: tackle karaoke. But there is that on the bridge where
Speaker 1: she kind of goes lower and does that like kind
Speaker 1: of deep throated, like very throaty, like kind of yes
Speaker 1: song and I love I Love like a throatier Madonna song.
Speaker 1: I want to know a little bit about your sort
Speaker 1: of analysis of Madonna's singing and how do you kind
Speaker 1: of see her as a vocalist in the pop canon.
Speaker 3: I think she was a powerhouse in her own right.
Speaker 4: I feel like one of the things that gave her
Speaker 4: the cool that she needed to succeed is her being,
Speaker 4: you know, like a downtown scene kid who had a
Speaker 4: little edge, who could push the boundaries a bit, especially
Speaker 4: like lyrically.
Speaker 3: And I think both she and Janet what they did
Speaker 3: in the eighties.
Speaker 4: When it came to really like being empowered and like
Speaker 4: their sexuality and being like you know, encouraging of young
Speaker 4: women to just talk about these things openly, to really
Speaker 4: like be in tune with your body.
Speaker 3: They're both like incredible dancers.
Speaker 4: And I feel like Madonna, you know, she didn't give
Speaker 4: herself enough credit for being the singer she is. Like
Speaker 4: like I said earlier, she really has She has a
Speaker 4: huge range for a singer. This was kind of it
Speaker 4: was her her time to really like show it off,
Speaker 4: want it. It's like the eleventh hour. She had to,
Speaker 4: she had to write this song and stats so she
Speaker 4: could go on this day with this hot quarry can
Speaker 4: guy across the hall and come back like I don't know,
Speaker 4: she sings it like she wants it, you know, and
Speaker 4: I resuspect that so much.
Speaker 1: There's so much urgency in her music. I feel like
Speaker 1: the best Madonna songs have so much like like Borderline
Speaker 1: is a big one for me. I think that's probably
Speaker 1: that's probably like my my favorite of the of the
Speaker 1: eighties era of Madonna and that song there's like so
Speaker 1: much urgency in it, like and also just like this
Speaker 1: like kind of like kind of I don't know, raw
Speaker 1: anger almost and like it's like keep on pushing my
Speaker 1: love over the borderline. Like it's just like but it's
Speaker 1: also still such like euphour extol. I think like that's
Speaker 1: why the Right of Light album and like a lot
Speaker 1: of for he work with William Orbit works so well.
Speaker 1: That's why you know, these kind of all these dance
Speaker 1: records with her work so well, because there's like this
Speaker 1: like real urgency that she's willing to give because sometimes
Speaker 1: you just you gotta be urgent to get to the
Speaker 1: dance floor, and you got to be urgent to win
Speaker 1: over your hot neighbor you know well. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much Susie for joining us today. Love talking Madonna, really
Speaker 1: appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Could not be more love talking about Madonna.
Speaker 2: Listening to you to talk about Madonna is absolutely a
Speaker 2: joy and education.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Rob, Thank you Brittany. Always a fun time
Speaker 4: with you. And yeah, until next time, Thanks.
Speaker 1: So much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred Greatest Songs.
Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia.
Speaker 1: Written hosted by Me, Britney.
Speaker 2: Spanos and Rob Sheffield.
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale, and Christian Horde,
Speaker 1: and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric Zeiler.
Speaker 1: Thanks for watching and thanks for listening.