WEBVTT - Polyamory 102 with Dr. Jenn M. Jackson 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.120 Welcome to Woke a f with Me Danielle Moody. Earlier 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:17.799 this year, I was joined by doctor Jen M. Jackson 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.720 to talk all about their experience and perspective as a 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:25.239 polyamorous person, and to discuss how polyamory ties into race 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.520 and gender liberation. I shared part of that conversation with 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:30.960 you at the end of January after posting the full 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.040 discussion for woke a f Nation over at patreon dot 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.920 com slash woke af and I got such a strong 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.120 response that I had to have them back to further 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:43.400 educate my curious listeners. This time, I also invited their husband, 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.120 Darren Jackson, who co hosts their podcast That Black Couple, 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.880 to talk about his experience as a monogamous, asexual person 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.840 in a relationship with a polyamorous queer person. I ended 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.200 up getting more than I bargained for, as Jen's live 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.000 in partner, Tia jumped on the couch and joined them 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.480 for what became a nearly hour long symposium. So today 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.160 I bring you a juicy morsel of that thought provoking 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.440 session about living as a polyamorous black person in the 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.080 twenty first century. What is it like to raise three 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.840 children and a polyamorous household with a married couple and 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:19.800 a third partner. Listen in and find out. I think 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:23.400 that it is always important whenever I'm talking about various 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:27.160 topics on woke, app to have an explainer, right. And 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.120 what was interesting to me Jen when we first spoke 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:37.800 was the differentiation between polyamory monogamy, what it means to 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:41.640 have a nesting partner versus other partners, what it means 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.280 to show up in these different spaces. Now, these are 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.120 I guess labels, but I almost I see them as 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:54.280 explainers if in fact, you want to explain or describe 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:59.960 your relationship. So can you all explain your dynamic again 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.640 and then we can jump into, you know, even deeper 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.920 conversation about kids and parenting and all of that. Yeah. 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.200 I mean, Darren and I met our first day of 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.920 moving at the University of Southern California in two thousand 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.919 and two. So I have known this person for more 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.760 than half of my life at this point, and we 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.480 just took to each other. You know, we were not romantic. 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.400 We just kind of were drawn to each other. We 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:28.840 like the same music, we like the same food. We 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.600 couldn't stand the same people together, and you know, we 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:37.080 found the same things generally annoying, and so that bonded 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:38.880 us together in a way where we said, you know, 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.440 regardless of what this looks like, we want to be 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.400 in each other's lives forever. If it's a romantic thing, 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.640 if it's parenting, if it's family, whatever it is, we 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.720 want to do it together. And that was a commitment 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.840 that we had from the beginning. I was always Polly, 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.320 I was always queer, so I was kind of confused, like, well, 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.359 you're a boy. I remember saying that a lot to him, like, hey, 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.799 but you're a boy. Sociers know this is going to 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.520 get a little dicey for me, and you know, we 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.440 decided to trust ourselves and trust our bodies and let 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.520 our lives move in the ways that felt natural to us. 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.280 And so we wanted to get married, and I for 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:17.600 the first time in my life, I was like, I 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:19.320 think I want to have kids with someone. And he 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:21.120 was the only person I've ever in my life wanted 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.360 to raise a family with. And so, you know, I 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.000 have a hard condition. I was told I could never 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.040 have kids. I had open heart surgery and they said, 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:29.639 well you can. I said great, because I found the 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:33.399 perfect person right, And so we have three children, and 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.320 you know, we are now at a stage where we 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.920 have a business together. We are raising a thirteen year old, 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.920 nine year old and seven year old. We have a 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.000 home together, we have you know, jobs, and we are nested. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.960 We build a life together. We do life together. We 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.760 build life together. But I also am now the point 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.760 where I have someone I consider my wife for my 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.560 future wife, and I want to also now build life 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.560 with her. And that was something I didn't think was possible. 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.040 Darren is monogamous, and you can you can also talk everyone. 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:10.680 I don't want to interrupt you. I mean, I don't 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.119 know when we get a break, you know. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.159 I am a monogamous and I think I've come a 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.120 long way, and even defining what monogamy is, I think, 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.880 just like polyamory, monogamy is different for everybody. I'm someone who, 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:29.200 in various conversations have said, well, maybe I could be 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:33.479 polyamorous in another life, but in this life that I'm living, 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.160 I don't have the band with the attention, the energy, 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.880 you know, so on and so forth to maintain more 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.160 than one relationship with an individual. And I identify as 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.360 a monogamous person. But I think our dynamic is also 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.160 interesting because I am also a sexual at the same time, 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.640 so I am not interested at this point in my 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.440 life in the sexual interactions. That doesn't mean that we're 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.840 not romantic, platonic, loving, building life together, like you've said, 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.440 but that is not an aspect that is important to me. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.920 And so I think what we've done in our relationship 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.520 that's been very powerful and very important is we've had, 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.080 you know, decades long conversations about what we each want, 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.840 what's important to us, what isn't important to us, and 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.800 we have kind of meshed together to make our lives 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.880 work for each other, and we've also been there for 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.400 each other as those things shift and change. So I 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.320 don't think at any point have we looked at each 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.520 other and said, you're not allowed to change who you 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:32.240 are away what's important to you. If tomorrow things changed, 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.240 it doesn't mean, you know, there's a boundary that you're 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.600 not allowed to cross, and you're now crossing it and 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.800 that now ends everything. It means now we have a conversation, 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.880 and that's I think. You know, historically everyone says that 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.000 about relationships, it's all about communication, and I feel like 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:51.080 that's that much more important when polyamorant is a part 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.560 of the equation because you do have to have those 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.599 open lines of communication and understanding with one another to 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.440 make sure that everyone's needs are met. One of the 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.400 things that I want to ask go back to Jen, 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:05.080 it's mentioning a wife and somebody else that you are 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:10.040 wanting to or are currently sharing your life with. What 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.800 does that look like when you when you, oh, shit, 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.080 we could have done a three. I'm very safe. You 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:17.400 might want I told her you might want her to 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:23.080 come in and say, hey, I may, I may. How 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.240 did that evolve in what does this look like? And 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.960 then I want to go into how you talk to 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.920 your kids? Yeah, so you know, I've always been Polly. 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.480 You know, I've never understood monogamy for me, I've always 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.760 even back to like high school. For me, I felt 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.039 drawn to lots of different people, and I felt lots 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.560 of different energies. It was hard for me when people 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.200 would make me choose and I didn't like it, and 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.240 so I would just opt out. The moment somebody said 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.440 you can't be with this person or you can't I 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.880 was like, okay, I'm out. I would literally just dip out. 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.039 Some people say this because I'm a virgo. I know 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.680 it's because I'm poly. And what that has meant is that, 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:03.280 you know, for me specifically, I was also very closeted 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.160 all growing I'm really very religious. Um. I was not 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.800 allowed to express the parts of me that are masculine 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.320 and androgynist. Um. I was always kind of encouraged to 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.480 be I'm six four and I've been six four since 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.240 I was twelve, so it was like, you're gonna be 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.160 a model, and you're gonna be all this stuff, and 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.400 it wasn't the encouragement to be like leaning too the 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.360 parts of you dinner and drowg like I feel very 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.560 Grace Jones, I don't feel Cindy Crawford. Here' she got 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:35.280 can we make room? Come on, baby jacket, come on baby, Hi. Hi, 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.520 that's to you cha. I'm Danielle. This is thank you 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:48.560 so much for bopping in. Well, oh welcome. Fuck yeah. No. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:50.680 So basically, you know, I think for me, it was 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.440 around the time I was in college where I was like, yeah, 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.920 I'm queer and I kind of started to really accept it, 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.880 but I still wasn't out. I was very very much closeted, 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.280 and in terms of you know, what it looks like 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.800 building a life with Tia, same thing that I talked 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:06.720 about with Darre And it's like we dream together, like 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.520 we have dreams of having a compound or farm and 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.160 where we you know, do work together, where we train 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:17.760 folks on self care and polyamory and going back to 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.880 the land and taking back our bodies from the world 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.000 that's tried to claim us. And like, for me, it's 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.240 like we've connected in that way and I've chosen to 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.840 lean into it and to let it do what it 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.120 wants to do. Very similar to what I was just 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.520 talking about with Darren, Like I don't know how it's 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:36.160 gonna look, and I don't need to know how it's 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.000 gonna look. I don't need to have all the answers. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.760 But it felt natural, you know, and I was like, hey, 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.960 let's just move in together, you know, like let's just 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:49.520 be a family. And it felt right and everyone works. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:51.959 And I think it's one of those things where because 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.600 we're so wrapped up in cultural normativity about what should 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.960 be and who is allowed to experience joy, and also 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.640 we have so much trauma where when things are going well, 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.560 we wait for the other shooter drop and I say, 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.080 we because I'm we girl, I'm we okay, so that 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:13.160 where I am you are when we are we. But look, 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.120 but also when things are good, we spend so much 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.160 time afraid about what's going to happen that we don't 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.040 get to just sit and enjoy. And so I think 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.079 what we're all trying to work on not speaking on 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.720 the other time, um, but like it's just really sitting 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.760 with like this is good and we are happy, um, 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.320 and we are building a life that allows each of 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.160 us to really go after what it is that we 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.760 want for ourselves. And so that's kind of how all this, 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.800 I mean should be copy in my hair color though. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.960 I mean, y'all look cute and like twins to tell 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:55.839 me you all everybody now lives together? Yes, okay, Tia, 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.360 introduce yourself, and then I want to know how long 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.880 have ye you that? Are you Polly? Are you monogamous? 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.679 And how does how has this been functioning? Cious? Sure? 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:15.560 So I'm Tia originally from Jersey of Jamaican descent, So okay, yeah, 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.360 um yeah, I've been Polly for maybe the past three 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.719 four years. I'm getting up there on the right a 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:32.320 little Polly. And it started out for me is just 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.920 reimagining what it meant to have a successful relationship. I 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.200 was like, if I want to do relationships or marriage, 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.240 what would that look like for me? So I started 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.280 with the idea of living a part together from like 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.800 RuPaul and his partner, and I was like, oh, so 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:48.720 people can I was like, you can love somebody and 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:49.920 not want to live with them, like if you have 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.440 a messy partner, and being able to love somebody on 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.080 their terms because I am a neat freak. So that 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.120 was something that was like a big kicker for me. 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.640 And then it started to be like a more imagining 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.400 like ethical nonmonogamy, and then reading up more about that, 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.439 like The Ethical Slut was a really good book with that. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:08.680 So just kind of like going down the trail and 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.400 like slowly just making the journey for myself. So polyamory 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.160 really was just like a natural progression for me. But 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:16.840 I think I've always understood. I was like, I think 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:18.760 we should just be honest about like if we like 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.520 other people, but not understanding what that meant in a 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.040 monogamous kind. I was like, and then like your partner 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:25.840 would be like, oh, well, I don't know. I don't 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:27.920 know if I can trust you with my truth. If 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:29.880 I'm attracted to other people, I don't know if I 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:31.679 can trust you with my truth. If there are things 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.240 that have changed for me in our relationship, and it 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:36.680 felt like a safer way to be more honest in 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.319 relationships and to really build it on trust and just 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:45.719 more intentionality than anything else. So you have three kids, yeah, 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.560 and everybody is living in the house, three whole other 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:54.800 human beings. Yeah, tell me about how you have this 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:59.000 open conversation and about what you think that you all 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:03.319 the three of you are teaching them about relationships, about love, 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:10.319 about connectivity. Anybody can anybody can start. So our prefaces 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.600 by saying, we have raised these kids very intentionally from 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.160 the beginning to really want them to be their own 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.839 people and whatever that means, but also being very open 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.160 and honest and transparent about how we move through life 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.160 and who we are as people. We also check in 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:32.640 with them, probably too much, but we're always checking in 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:34.760 on them to make sure they're okay, to ask if 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.880 they have any questions, to you know, openly and honestly 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:42.320 answer those questions. And so as things have changed over 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.480 the years, as different dynamics have come into play, as 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.280 we've moved and been in different situations, right, We've always 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:49.839 checked in with them and say, hey, are you okay? 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:51.720 It's something bothering you? What do you like? But do 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.400 you not like? And so I think that once again, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.760 the open lines of communication have been really great with 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.200 us and raising our kids. And that doesn't mean we 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.520 don't have fears or concerns or worries and doubts, right, 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.120 and all those things that do appear. But as Tia 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.199 has moved in, we have you know, checked in with 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.280 them and made sure they're okay, see if they have 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.640 any questions, both privately one on one and then also 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.640 as a group. And to be honest, I've been very 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:22.480 proud and happy and how honestly, they've really been unmoved 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:27.520 really because my my fear and my thought and my 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.240 expectation was there would be concerns and be questions, that'd 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.120 be worried that, you know, all these things that we 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.160 would have to deal with. And really, seriously, it's been 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:45.280 like we're good change. My daughter. The first thing she asked, 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.520 is going to move in? She said, does she like crafts? 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.840 And I was like, I just told you a whole 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.800 human is moving in. And she was like I said 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.320 what I said because we had already met at them right, 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.280 they weren't want to be and saw some things. I mean, 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.199 I want to say a couple of things. I think 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.240 the first is that you know, we did not they're 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.240 not When we talked about having a family, because it's 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.080 so important to me, it was something I was told 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.640 I would never be allowed to do that. My body 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.280 could not do it, but I was told that I 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.040 would never be allowed to do it, right, like I 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.360 would never because of my heart condition. And so I 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:21.920 was like, if I ever have children, it's gonna be 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.680 like I'm so serious about this, and I'm like, I 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.360 want to raise these free black children. You know, my 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.160 childhood was really rough, and you know, I was coming 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.960 out of like surviving multiple sexual assaults and having issues 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.480 with being abused by family members and things like that, 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.560 and so for me, it was like, if we're gonna 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:43.720 do this, we're gonna do this. And so I was 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.440 intense I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie or whatever. 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.480 But when we decided to start a family, I was like, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.000 we're gonna raise free black children. We're never gonna tell 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.120 them who they are. We're gonna ask them who they are, 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:56.440 and like we're gonna give them all the options. I 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.720 don't want to force them into any religion. I don't 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:00.680 want to force them into any idea unities. I don't 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:02.600 let them tell us who they are. I want to 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:07.240 meet our children, and you know, it was important to 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.000 us to debunk these myths about how you have to 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:11.400 be when they would come home and say, oh, those 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.720 are boy clothes or those are girl clothes or boy 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.080 toys or or whatever. Like we've always had conversations around gender. 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:18.880 And then I remember one point my daughter was like, 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.000 you know, she would catch us on pronoun She's like, 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.600 you do not other person's gender do not? She heard them. 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.000 I'm like, you're right, you know, like we were very 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.400 good about saying like we don't, we don't have to 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.160 be one way. And so we've done that since they 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.080 were born, and you know, they've seen me evolved through 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.800 you know, queerness and how my polyage shows up in 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.960 the world, and so this is like not new for 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.160 them to the point where sometimes I feel like they're bored, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.800 and it is they are. I tell them something like yeah, mom, 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:53.200 we know, like you're a whole professor, like and you know, 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.480 it's one of those things where like I just wish 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.120 people would trust children more, specifically black. Yeah, you know, 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.320 Black childrens to the nexus of so many identities and experiences, 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.160 and we don't trust them to understand the world, and 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.080 they get it more than so many adults. So I mean, 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.640 my children. I sometimes feel sad that I don't want 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.480 to leave my house because the people in my house 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.760 are so wonderful. My kids, we have so much fun 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.640 and like they are so brilliant and amazing, So they haven't. 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.400 Our conversations with them have been more you know, just 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.040 kind of seeking more wisdom and understanding and making sure 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.760 that they have clarity than anything else. But they are 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.320 very much like we're a family and people here love 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.920 us and they feel the unconditional love and that's what 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:40.040 matters to them. And they haven't felt threatened or unsafe, 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.480 the routines not changing, like there's nothing that has signaled 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.160 to them that their lives are in threat or peril. 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.800 And I think that's what kids are worried about, right. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.080 They're worried, like, is this going to materially affect the 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.040 quality of my life? And what they're saying is actually 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.800 things are funner and better, so they're good, you know. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.760 And I think people have to look that stuff more 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.440 and let kids really take their time to work through 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.879 their experiences in ways that they have the expert knowledge 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:09.760 to do, because they actually do they do it. It's 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.520 funny because I think that there has always been this 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:17.240 desire and as a former teacher, I recognize this very clearly, 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.840 that there's always this desire to protect children from what 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:25.760 adults believe will somehow rob them of their childhood. And 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.639 there is a protection as opposed to a guidance that 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.560 is there, right, like how do you learn? You learn 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:35.600 through exposure? Right, and how do you you know? And 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.760 how are you feeling about these things? Well, then we 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.000 discuss them, right, and we discuss what's coming up for you. 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.960 And if you shield, if you cover up, then where 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.080 is the learning. The learning isn't just how to navigate 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.320 through this, you know, false idea of perfection or or 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.160 non struggle like, oh, I don't want my kids to struggle, Well, 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.639 how are they going to develop, you know, resilience, Like 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.960 I'm confused about how you back them to have grit 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.159 and resiliency when you don't expose them to shit, you know, 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.000 and I'm not a parent, but I have seen how 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:12.160 that is detrimental to like when you go into raising 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.440 children as opposed to raising people. I feel like that's 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.040 where the problem comes, is that they're not going to 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.440 be children for forever. They're going to they are people 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.680 belong to themselves. Correct, they belong to themselves. Our responsibility 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.920 is not to keep them and to possess them. It's 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.280 to teach them how to belong to themselves and how 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.919 to be responsible for themselves and to be here to 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.239 witness it. I see myself as a witness. I'm like, 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.159 this is so cool. Like they do stuff and I'm like, 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.200 that's a new word. Hi five. Like I just think 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.439 that they're interesting. I would insulate things for other people. So, 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.159 like the other day, one of the kids was in 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.720 school and we were kind of being loud adults and 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.760 we were like kids, we're like making out of their 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.320 kiden orselves. They're like, sorry, that's just my two moms 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:58.320 doing stuff. They're like, it's okay, continue on with the math. Lesson. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.679 Sorry I'd say a little over here, but it's you know, 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.120 it gives them language because now they have to translate 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.400 what they're seeing they're like, well, for you, this might 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.000 mean this. So they're giving other people language for how 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.480 they can interpret what is happening even in their household. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.639 I mean, it was one of the confirmations for me, 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.639 like aside from like meeting Darren and I was like, oh, 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.840 you're a cool human, you know. It was just like 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:22.840 the kids were confirmation that I was like, oh, this 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.000 is the person that you say you are, because kids 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.359 are often a reflection of their seeing that. You know, 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.120 these were just human beings that were living their best 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.719 free lives. They had opinions and thoughts, they had their 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.440 own politics, they were free to express themselves, and it 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.280 was like everything that you said was also true. So 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.320 it's like confirmation come to fruition. So that was one 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:43.720 of the things that I was like, Oh, this is 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:55.000 my person. Like we go together now. Woke. F is 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.560 a space to get you woke to all facets of life. 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.640 And that is why I have these conversations about sexuality 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.720 and queerness, because these are important aspects of our lives 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.800 that mainstream society would prefer we simply not talk about. 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.320 Later in our discussion, Jen Darante and I dissect the 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.760 Red Table Talks episode about polyamory, and we break down 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.080 the age gap in how non traditional sexualities and relationships 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:20.480 are perceived by older people versus millennials and the next 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.240 generation who are coming into adulthood. To hear the full 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.360 hour of my three way interview with these amazing intellectual 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.680 polyamorous peeps, head over to patreon dot com slash woke 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.200 f and support this show. By joining woke f Nation, 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.199 you'll get access to hundreds of past shows, including my 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.400 very first interview with the incredible doctor Jen M. Jackson, 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.680 and who knows, this may not be the last time 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:43.879 you hear from them. Whether I see you next on 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.080 Patreon in the tweets, or on Instagram at D two cents, 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.320 or here on this weekly podcast. Power to the people 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.359 and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:54.280 woke as fuck.