1 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Woke a f with Me Danielle Moody. Earlier 2 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: this year, I was joined by doctor Jen M. Jackson 3 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: to talk all about their experience and perspective as a 4 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: polyamorous person, and to discuss how polyamory ties into race 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: and gender liberation. I shared part of that conversation with 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: you at the end of January after posting the full 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: discussion for woke a f Nation over at patreon dot 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: com slash woke af and I got such a strong 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: response that I had to have them back to further 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: educate my curious listeners. This time, I also invited their husband, 11 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Darren Jackson, who co hosts their podcast That Black Couple, 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: to talk about his experience as a monogamous, asexual person 13 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: in a relationship with a polyamorous queer person. I ended 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: up getting more than I bargained for, as Jen's live 15 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: in partner, Tia jumped on the couch and joined them 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: for what became a nearly hour long symposium. So today 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: I bring you a juicy morsel of that thought provoking 18 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: session about living as a polyamorous black person in the 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: twenty first century. What is it like to raise three 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: children and a polyamorous household with a married couple and 21 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: a third partner. Listen in and find out. I think 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: that it is always important whenever I'm talking about various 23 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: topics on woke, app to have an explainer, right. And 24 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: what was interesting to me Jen when we first spoke 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: was the differentiation between polyamory monogamy, what it means to 26 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: have a nesting partner versus other partners, what it means 27 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: to show up in these different spaces. Now, these are 28 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: I guess labels, but I almost I see them as 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: explainers if in fact, you want to explain or describe 30 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: your relationship. So can you all explain your dynamic again 31 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: and then we can jump into, you know, even deeper 32 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: conversation about kids and parenting and all of that. Yeah. 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: I mean, Darren and I met our first day of 34 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: moving at the University of Southern California in two thousand 35 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: and two. So I have known this person for more 36 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: than half of my life at this point, and we 37 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: just took to each other. You know, we were not romantic. 38 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: We just kind of were drawn to each other. We 39 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: like the same music, we like the same food. We 40 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: couldn't stand the same people together, and you know, we 41 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: found the same things generally annoying, and so that bonded 42 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: us together in a way where we said, you know, 43 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: regardless of what this looks like, we want to be 44 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: in each other's lives forever. If it's a romantic thing, 45 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: if it's parenting, if it's family, whatever it is, we 46 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: want to do it together. And that was a commitment 47 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: that we had from the beginning. I was always Polly, 48 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: I was always queer, so I was kind of confused, like, well, 49 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: you're a boy. I remember saying that a lot to him, like, hey, 50 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: but you're a boy. Sociers know this is going to 51 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: get a little dicey for me, and you know, we 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: decided to trust ourselves and trust our bodies and let 53 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: our lives move in the ways that felt natural to us. 54 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: And so we wanted to get married, and I for 55 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: the first time in my life, I was like, I 56 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: think I want to have kids with someone. And he 57 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: was the only person I've ever in my life wanted 58 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: to raise a family with. And so, you know, I 59 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: have a hard condition. I was told I could never 60 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: have kids. I had open heart surgery and they said, 61 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: well you can. I said great, because I found the 62 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 1: perfect person right, And so we have three children, and 63 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: you know, we are now at a stage where we 64 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: have a business together. We are raising a thirteen year old, 65 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: nine year old and seven year old. We have a 66 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: home together, we have you know, jobs, and we are nested. 67 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: We build a life together. We do life together. We 68 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: build life together. But I also am now the point 69 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: where I have someone I consider my wife for my 70 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: future wife, and I want to also now build life 71 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: with her. And that was something I didn't think was possible. 72 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: Darren is monogamous, and you can you can also talk everyone. 73 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to interrupt you. I mean, I don't 74 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 1: know when we get a break, you know. Yeah, yeah, 75 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: I am a monogamous and I think I've come a 76 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: long way, and even defining what monogamy is, I think, 77 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: just like polyamory, monogamy is different for everybody. I'm someone who, 78 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: in various conversations have said, well, maybe I could be 79 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: polyamorous in another life, but in this life that I'm living, 80 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: I don't have the band with the attention, the energy, 81 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: you know, so on and so forth to maintain more 82 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: than one relationship with an individual. And I identify as 83 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: a monogamous person. But I think our dynamic is also 84 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: interesting because I am also a sexual at the same time, 85 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: so I am not interested at this point in my 86 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: life in the sexual interactions. That doesn't mean that we're 87 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: not romantic, platonic, loving, building life together, like you've said, 88 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: but that is not an aspect that is important to me. 89 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: And so I think what we've done in our relationship 90 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: that's been very powerful and very important is we've had, 91 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: you know, decades long conversations about what we each want, 92 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: what's important to us, what isn't important to us, and 93 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: we have kind of meshed together to make our lives 94 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: work for each other, and we've also been there for 95 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: each other as those things shift and change. So I 96 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: don't think at any point have we looked at each 97 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: other and said, you're not allowed to change who you 98 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: are away what's important to you. If tomorrow things changed, 99 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean, you know, there's a boundary that you're 100 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: not allowed to cross, and you're now crossing it and 101 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: that now ends everything. It means now we have a conversation, 102 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: and that's I think. You know, historically everyone says that 103 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: about relationships, it's all about communication, and I feel like 104 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: that's that much more important when polyamorant is a part 105 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: of the equation because you do have to have those 106 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: open lines of communication and understanding with one another to 107 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: make sure that everyone's needs are met. One of the 108 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: things that I want to ask go back to Jen, 109 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: it's mentioning a wife and somebody else that you are 110 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: wanting to or are currently sharing your life with. What 111 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: does that look like when you when you, oh, shit, 112 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: we could have done a three. I'm very safe. You 113 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: might want I told her you might want her to 114 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: come in and say, hey, I may, I may. How 115 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: did that evolve in what does this look like? And 116 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: then I want to go into how you talk to 117 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: your kids? Yeah, so you know, I've always been Polly. 118 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: You know, I've never understood monogamy for me, I've always 119 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: even back to like high school. For me, I felt 120 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: drawn to lots of different people, and I felt lots 121 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: of different energies. It was hard for me when people 122 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: would make me choose and I didn't like it, and 123 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: so I would just opt out. The moment somebody said 124 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: you can't be with this person or you can't I 125 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: was like, okay, I'm out. I would literally just dip out. 126 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: Some people say this because I'm a virgo. I know 127 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: it's because I'm poly. And what that has meant is that, 128 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: you know, for me specifically, I was also very closeted 129 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: all growing I'm really very religious. Um. I was not 130 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: allowed to express the parts of me that are masculine 131 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: and androgynist. Um. I was always kind of encouraged to 132 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: be I'm six four and I've been six four since 133 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: I was twelve, so it was like, you're gonna be 134 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: a model, and you're gonna be all this stuff, and 135 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't the encouragement to be like leaning too the 136 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: parts of you dinner and drowg like I feel very 137 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: Grace Jones, I don't feel Cindy Crawford. Here' she got 138 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: can we make room? Come on, baby jacket, come on baby, Hi. Hi, 139 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: that's to you cha. I'm Danielle. This is thank you 140 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: so much for bopping in. Well, oh welcome. Fuck yeah. No. 141 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: So basically, you know, I think for me, it was 142 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: around the time I was in college where I was like, yeah, 143 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: I'm queer and I kind of started to really accept it, 144 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: but I still wasn't out. I was very very much closeted, 145 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: and in terms of you know, what it looks like 146 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: building a life with Tia, same thing that I talked 147 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: about with Darre And it's like we dream together, like 148 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: we have dreams of having a compound or farm and 149 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: where we you know, do work together, where we train 150 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: folks on self care and polyamory and going back to 151 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: the land and taking back our bodies from the world 152 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: that's tried to claim us. And like, for me, it's 153 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: like we've connected in that way and I've chosen to 154 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: lean into it and to let it do what it 155 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: wants to do. Very similar to what I was just 156 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: talking about with Darren, Like I don't know how it's 157 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: gonna look, and I don't need to know how it's 158 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: gonna look. I don't need to have all the answers. 159 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: But it felt natural, you know, and I was like, hey, 160 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: let's just move in together, you know, like let's just 161 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: be a family. And it felt right and everyone works. 162 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: And I think it's one of those things where because 163 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: we're so wrapped up in cultural normativity about what should 164 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: be and who is allowed to experience joy, and also 165 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: we have so much trauma where when things are going well, 166 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: we wait for the other shooter drop and I say, 167 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: we because I'm we girl, I'm we okay, so that 168 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: where I am you are when we are we. But look, 169 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: but also when things are good, we spend so much 170 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: time afraid about what's going to happen that we don't 171 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: get to just sit and enjoy. And so I think 172 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: what we're all trying to work on not speaking on 173 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: the other time, um, but like it's just really sitting 174 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: with like this is good and we are happy, um, 175 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: and we are building a life that allows each of 176 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: us to really go after what it is that we 177 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: want for ourselves. And so that's kind of how all this, 178 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: I mean should be copy in my hair color though. 179 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: I mean, y'all look cute and like twins to tell 180 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: me you all everybody now lives together? Yes, okay, Tia, 181 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: introduce yourself, and then I want to know how long 182 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: have ye you that? Are you Polly? Are you monogamous? 183 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 1: And how does how has this been functioning? Cious? Sure? 184 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: So I'm Tia originally from Jersey of Jamaican descent, So okay, yeah, 185 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: um yeah, I've been Polly for maybe the past three 186 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 1: four years. I'm getting up there on the right a 187 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: little Polly. And it started out for me is just 188 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: reimagining what it meant to have a successful relationship. I 189 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: was like, if I want to do relationships or marriage, 190 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: what would that look like for me? So I started 191 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: with the idea of living a part together from like 192 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: RuPaul and his partner, and I was like, oh, so 193 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: people can I was like, you can love somebody and 194 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: not want to live with them, like if you have 195 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: a messy partner, and being able to love somebody on 196 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: their terms because I am a neat freak. So that 197 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: was something that was like a big kicker for me. 198 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: And then it started to be like a more imagining 199 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: like ethical nonmonogamy, and then reading up more about that, 200 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: like The Ethical Slut was a really good book with that. 201 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: So just kind of like going down the trail and 202 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: like slowly just making the journey for myself. So polyamory 203 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: really was just like a natural progression for me. But 204 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: I think I've always understood. I was like, I think 205 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: we should just be honest about like if we like 206 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: other people, but not understanding what that meant in a 207 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: monogamous kind. I was like, and then like your partner 208 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: would be like, oh, well, I don't know. I don't 209 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: know if I can trust you with my truth. If 210 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: I'm attracted to other people, I don't know if I 211 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: can trust you with my truth. If there are things 212 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: that have changed for me in our relationship, and it 213 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: felt like a safer way to be more honest in 214 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: relationships and to really build it on trust and just 215 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:45,719 Speaker 1: more intentionality than anything else. So you have three kids, yeah, 216 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: and everybody is living in the house, three whole other 217 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: human beings. Yeah, tell me about how you have this 218 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: open conversation and about what you think that you all 219 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: the three of you are teaching them about relationships, about love, 220 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: about connectivity. Anybody can anybody can start. So our prefaces 221 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: by saying, we have raised these kids very intentionally from 222 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: the beginning to really want them to be their own 223 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 1: people and whatever that means, but also being very open 224 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: and honest and transparent about how we move through life 225 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: and who we are as people. We also check in 226 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: with them, probably too much, but we're always checking in 227 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: on them to make sure they're okay, to ask if 228 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: they have any questions, to you know, openly and honestly 229 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: answer those questions. And so as things have changed over 230 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: the years, as different dynamics have come into play, as 231 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: we've moved and been in different situations, right, We've always 232 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: checked in with them and say, hey, are you okay? 233 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: It's something bothering you? What do you like? But do 234 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: you not like? And so I think that once again, 235 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: the open lines of communication have been really great with 236 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: us and raising our kids. And that doesn't mean we 237 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: don't have fears or concerns or worries and doubts, right, 238 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: and all those things that do appear. But as Tia 239 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 1: has moved in, we have you know, checked in with 240 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: them and made sure they're okay, see if they have 241 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: any questions, both privately one on one and then also 242 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: as a group. And to be honest, I've been very 243 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: proud and happy and how honestly, they've really been unmoved 244 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: really because my my fear and my thought and my 245 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: expectation was there would be concerns and be questions, that'd 246 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: be worried that, you know, all these things that we 247 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: would have to deal with. And really, seriously, it's been 248 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: like we're good change. My daughter. The first thing she asked, 249 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: is going to move in? She said, does she like crafts? 250 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, I just told you a whole 251 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: human is moving in. And she was like I said 252 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: what I said because we had already met at them right, 253 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: they weren't want to be and saw some things. I mean, 254 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: I want to say a couple of things. I think 255 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: the first is that you know, we did not they're 256 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: not When we talked about having a family, because it's 257 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: so important to me, it was something I was told 258 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: I would never be allowed to do that. My body 259 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: could not do it, but I was told that I 260 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: would never be allowed to do it, right, like I 261 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: would never because of my heart condition. And so I 262 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: was like, if I ever have children, it's gonna be 263 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: like I'm so serious about this, and I'm like, I 264 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: want to raise these free black children. You know, my 265 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: childhood was really rough, and you know, I was coming 266 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: out of like surviving multiple sexual assaults and having issues 267 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: with being abused by family members and things like that, 268 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: and so for me, it was like, if we're gonna 269 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: do this, we're gonna do this. And so I was 270 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: intense I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie or whatever. 271 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: But when we decided to start a family, I was like, 272 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna raise free black children. We're never gonna tell 273 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: them who they are. We're gonna ask them who they are, 274 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: and like we're gonna give them all the options. I 275 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: don't want to force them into any religion. I don't 276 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: want to force them into any idea unities. I don't 277 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: let them tell us who they are. I want to 278 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: meet our children, and you know, it was important to 279 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: us to debunk these myths about how you have to 280 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: be when they would come home and say, oh, those 281 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: are boy clothes or those are girl clothes or boy 282 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: toys or or whatever. Like we've always had conversations around gender. 283 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: And then I remember one point my daughter was like, 284 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, she would catch us on pronoun She's like, 285 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: you do not other person's gender do not? She heard them. 286 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, you're right, you know, like we were very 287 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: good about saying like we don't, we don't have to 288 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: be one way. And so we've done that since they 289 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: were born, and you know, they've seen me evolved through 290 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: you know, queerness and how my polyage shows up in 291 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: the world, and so this is like not new for 292 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: them to the point where sometimes I feel like they're bored, 293 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: and it is they are. I tell them something like yeah, mom, 294 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: we know, like you're a whole professor, like and you know, 295 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: it's one of those things where like I just wish 296 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: people would trust children more, specifically black. Yeah, you know, 297 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: Black childrens to the nexus of so many identities and experiences, 298 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: and we don't trust them to understand the world, and 299 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: they get it more than so many adults. So I mean, 300 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: my children. I sometimes feel sad that I don't want 301 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: to leave my house because the people in my house 302 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: are so wonderful. My kids, we have so much fun 303 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: and like they are so brilliant and amazing, So they haven't. 304 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: Our conversations with them have been more you know, just 305 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: kind of seeking more wisdom and understanding and making sure 306 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: that they have clarity than anything else. But they are 307 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: very much like we're a family and people here love 308 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: us and they feel the unconditional love and that's what 309 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: matters to them. And they haven't felt threatened or unsafe, 310 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: the routines not changing, like there's nothing that has signaled 311 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: to them that their lives are in threat or peril. 312 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: And I think that's what kids are worried about, right. 313 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: They're worried, like, is this going to materially affect the 314 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: quality of my life? And what they're saying is actually 315 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: things are funner and better, so they're good, you know. 316 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: And I think people have to look that stuff more 317 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: and let kids really take their time to work through 318 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: their experiences in ways that they have the expert knowledge 319 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: to do, because they actually do they do it. It's 320 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: funny because I think that there has always been this 321 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: desire and as a former teacher, I recognize this very clearly, 322 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: that there's always this desire to protect children from what 323 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: adults believe will somehow rob them of their childhood. And 324 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: there is a protection as opposed to a guidance that 325 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: is there, right, like how do you learn? You learn 326 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: through exposure? Right, and how do you you know? And 327 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: how are you feeling about these things? Well, then we 328 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: discuss them, right, and we discuss what's coming up for you. 329 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: And if you shield, if you cover up, then where 330 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: is the learning. The learning isn't just how to navigate 331 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: through this, you know, false idea of perfection or or 332 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: non struggle like, oh, I don't want my kids to struggle, Well, 333 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: how are they going to develop, you know, resilience, Like 334 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: I'm confused about how you back them to have grit 335 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: and resiliency when you don't expose them to shit, you know, 336 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: and I'm not a parent, but I have seen how 337 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: that is detrimental to like when you go into raising 338 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: children as opposed to raising people. I feel like that's 339 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: where the problem comes, is that they're not going to 340 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: be children for forever. They're going to they are people 341 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: belong to themselves. Correct, they belong to themselves. Our responsibility 342 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: is not to keep them and to possess them. It's 343 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: to teach them how to belong to themselves and how 344 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: to be responsible for themselves and to be here to 345 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,239 Speaker 1: witness it. I see myself as a witness. I'm like, 346 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: this is so cool. Like they do stuff and I'm like, 347 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: that's a new word. Hi five. Like I just think 348 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: that they're interesting. I would insulate things for other people. So, 349 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: like the other day, one of the kids was in 350 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: school and we were kind of being loud adults and 351 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: we were like kids, we're like making out of their 352 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: kiden orselves. They're like, sorry, that's just my two moms 353 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: doing stuff. They're like, it's okay, continue on with the math. Lesson. 354 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: Sorry I'd say a little over here, but it's you know, 355 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: it gives them language because now they have to translate 356 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: what they're seeing they're like, well, for you, this might 357 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: mean this. So they're giving other people language for how 358 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: they can interpret what is happening even in their household. 359 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: I mean, it was one of the confirmations for me, 360 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: like aside from like meeting Darren and I was like, oh, 361 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: you're a cool human, you know. It was just like 362 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: the kids were confirmation that I was like, oh, this 363 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: is the person that you say you are, because kids 364 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: are often a reflection of their seeing that. You know, 365 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: these were just human beings that were living their best 366 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,719 Speaker 1: free lives. They had opinions and thoughts, they had their 367 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: own politics, they were free to express themselves, and it 368 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: was like everything that you said was also true. So 369 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: it's like confirmation come to fruition. So that was one 370 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: of the things that I was like, Oh, this is 371 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: my person. Like we go together now. Woke. F is 372 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: a space to get you woke to all facets of life. 373 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: And that is why I have these conversations about sexuality 374 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: and queerness, because these are important aspects of our lives 375 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: that mainstream society would prefer we simply not talk about. 376 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: Later in our discussion, Jen Darante and I dissect the 377 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: Red Table Talks episode about polyamory, and we break down 378 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: the age gap in how non traditional sexualities and relationships 379 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: are perceived by older people versus millennials and the next 380 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: generation who are coming into adulthood. To hear the full 381 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 1: hour of my three way interview with these amazing intellectual 382 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: polyamorous peeps, head over to patreon dot com slash woke 383 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: f and support this show. By joining woke f Nation, 384 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: you'll get access to hundreds of past shows, including my 385 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: very first interview with the incredible doctor Jen M. Jackson, 386 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: and who knows, this may not be the last time 387 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: you hear from them. Whether I see you next on 388 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: Patreon in the tweets, or on Instagram at D two cents, 389 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: or here on this weekly podcast. Power to the people 390 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay 391 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: woke as fuck.