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Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is black tat Green Money.

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Speaker 1: Vernon Common is a co founder and CEO at click app,

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Speaker 1: formerly known as Real Time, which is a more intimate

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Speaker 1: social network which also emphasizes human I r L interactivity.

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Speaker 1: He's one of the youngest black entrepreneurs to raise VC funding,

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Speaker 1: and he's got technologist like Alexis o hand In and

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Speaker 1: Sam Alman on his cap table. In a world of

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Speaker 1: TikTok Ig and Facebook, I wonder if there's room for

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Speaker 1: another social media app. What did Vernon c missing in

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Speaker 1: the marketplace that made him say, you know what I'm

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Speaker 1: going in for us? I think it's about allowing people

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Speaker 1: to be able to do three things. One is silenced

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Speaker 1: the noise increased the signal. I think in the world

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Speaker 1: where you have Facebook, Twitter, TikTok like all these platforms

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Speaker 1: have a lot going on and a lot of content,

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Speaker 1: and so almost there's almost a lack of mindfulness, right.

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Speaker 1: That's why we have this term called doom scrolling where

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Speaker 1: it's just always on, right, So that's one. The second

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Speaker 1: I think think is about allowing people to reduce their

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Speaker 1: curation and increase their rate of connection. So I think

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Speaker 1: that on all these platforms, besides having and inundated and content,

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Speaker 1: that content is also heavily curated and curated in a

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Speaker 1: way where people are showing their best sells or their

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Speaker 1: perfect selves. And I think that also, you know, has

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Speaker 1: some negative psychological effects on how you're thinking about and

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Speaker 1: perceiving your own life, especially for gen Z where where

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Speaker 1: we've kind of come into an age of hypercuration. And

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Speaker 1: then I think the third is is really about essentially

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Speaker 1: the pressure that we face on these platforms to not

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Speaker 1: just curate our best selves but also constantly perform right.

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Speaker 1: And so a lot of these plays, a lot of

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Speaker 1: these platforms have followings, which is another word for audience,

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Speaker 1: and any time you get on stage and you're in

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Speaker 1: front of audience, you to the fuel they need to perform.

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Speaker 1: We even saw that with like Clubhouse back in the day, right,

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Speaker 1: like you would go up on stage and then people

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Speaker 1: will put their corporate voice on because there's an audience there. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, we've we've really been focused around

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Speaker 1: buildion products that allow people to to increase their their

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Speaker 1: rate of connection, reduce curation, and have more peace um.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, we've built we've built one product

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Speaker 1: where actually been testing another product that I think is

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Speaker 1: doing a lot better in the in regards to a

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Speaker 1: new new way for people to to use social media.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, I don't know how old job,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know if you remember Path, it was

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Speaker 1: an app about ten years ago or so. I loved Path,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps it was ten years before its time, you know.

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Speaker 1: And what makes what's different today that makes a private

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Speaker 1: or more curated social experience viable that didn't exist when

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Speaker 1: Path was making you run at it? I think there's

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Speaker 1: a couple things, right, Because it's like Path, Path, if

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Speaker 1: I remember correctly, they limited the social graph by one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty, right, And I think that was just

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Speaker 1: based off of some of the data that Machom glad

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Speaker 1: Well talked about in Tipping Point. Right after one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty people, an organization, doesn't, you know, it loses

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Speaker 1: it's it's a rate of connectivity amongst amongst different different

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Speaker 1: members of that org. And I think Path I was

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Speaker 1: actually reading about this a couple weeks ago. I think

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Speaker 1: one issue that it had was that people actually want

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Speaker 1: to constantly expand their social graph. And so because a

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Speaker 1: lot of these games, a lot of these these products

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Speaker 1: are based around gaming mechanics. So when I started in

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Speaker 1: my career, I was building in iOS and android games

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Speaker 1: in high school. I've always been a heavy gamer, and like,

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Speaker 1: when you study game mechanics, right, it's about like, uh,

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Speaker 1: for social media, it's about increasing status as a point

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Speaker 1: as opposed to like your your your points or whatever, right,

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Speaker 1: and so status Unfortunately, you want to create an endless

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Speaker 1: status game. Facebook did that well, Instagram did that well,

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Speaker 1: TikTok's doing it well now. But when it come came

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Speaker 1: to something like Path right one hundred, maxing your your

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Speaker 1: cap out one hundred and fifty people seemed great, but

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Speaker 1: the ideas once you you know, essentially everybody can max

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Speaker 1: out their social status game. So that was one issue

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Speaker 1: with it as as it was back then. But I

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Speaker 1: think today we live in an age where path came

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Speaker 1: about before Instagram was really blowing up. I mean, Instagram

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Speaker 1: was its thing, but it wasn't a billion users, basically

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Speaker 1: hadn't even started yet, which evolved in a TikTok, and

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Speaker 1: Snapchat was nascent at best, if it was if it

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Speaker 1: was even out. And so I think that what's happened

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Speaker 1: is that gen Z one crazy more authenticity. And I

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Speaker 1: think that because we've been inundated and grown up with

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Speaker 1: the Instagram and gone to snapchat and gone to TikTok,

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Speaker 1: which I think our indicators are more authentic forms of expression.

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Speaker 1: Even if they are a little bit performative, it's still

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Speaker 1: a more authentic form of expression. What I think has

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Speaker 1: happened there is that you now get to a world

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Speaker 1: where we're in a data with notifications, in a data

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Speaker 1: with content, and we want a little less, but we

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Speaker 1: still want to express. So you get a ride of

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Speaker 1: something like be real, right, where it's like, hey, you

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Speaker 1: know what, it's just gonna be one shitty photo of

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Speaker 1: a day. Really that's the intention, right, It's like, this

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Speaker 1: is not high quality content. So snapchot was always a

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Speaker 1: low quality content platform, but when you're constantly inundated with

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Speaker 1: like constantly having a snap, caring about the view count instead,

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Speaker 1: let's just shift this back to I think we're seeing

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Speaker 1: a rise of close friends apps because we've essentially we've

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Speaker 1: we've been playing these status games for a long time,

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Speaker 1: but now the status games have lost their their their appeal, right,

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Speaker 1: every game, video games have a half life, and I

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Speaker 1: think social networks the half life is really about seven

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Speaker 1: to ten years. I think we're just tired of playing

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Speaker 1: the game where you know, I might become the world's

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Speaker 1: next Instagram model or the top you know, top TikToker

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Speaker 1: or whatever. So those those kind of my my stream

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Speaker 1: of conscious around path and and today's networks. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you did bring up that, you know, there is some

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Speaker 1: sort of performative mechanism that today social media offerings rely on.

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Speaker 1: And even with that that, you know, there's so much

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Speaker 1: of our content that revolves around dancing and imitation and etc.

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Speaker 1: And this is an opportunity to even talk about how

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Speaker 1: your product works because this is still unlimited beta for

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks, and so a lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't have access to it. But how do you imagine

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Speaker 1: this might evolve having that performative style that we have,

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: act this in there. Also. I remember it was one

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Speaker 1: of the founders of Twitter who talked about I don't

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Speaker 1: remember it was Ev Williams. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: it was Ev Williams who had put out a comment

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Speaker 1: about how to grow products and he was like, if

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Speaker 1: you're trying to get people to change what they do,

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Speaker 1: you have a very hard time in success and trying

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Speaker 1: to find success in business. But if you make it

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Speaker 1: easier to do what they already want to do and

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Speaker 1: what they already do, then you'll find an easier path

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Speaker 1: to success. So, because we're getting further in further along

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Speaker 1: the road of performance and you know, trying to find

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Speaker 1: good angles, even on TikTok and snapchat, you're still looking

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Speaker 1: for the right light, right, And so, um, how do

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Speaker 1: you imagine this might evolve inside of a more curated

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Speaker 1: private network? Oh yeah, so I think this is this

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Speaker 1: is interesting because um, we've over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: we've been building um, different products around the idea of

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Speaker 1: how do you connect people in a more meaningful way. So, like, uh,

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Speaker 1: with what we had recently built click was video chat

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Speaker 1: communities and being able to meet and interact with people

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Speaker 1: based on your interest graphs. Right. So if I want

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Speaker 1: to meet other black founders at a raised ventric capital, right,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to be in San Francisco or New

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Speaker 1: York or London or whatever. I can be in South

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Speaker 1: Carolina and still be able to interact with these people.

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Speaker 1: And the thesis was that that that that increasing the

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Speaker 1: level of connection right, Actually one, because it's in synchronous,

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Speaker 1: people are going to be more of their real selves.

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Speaker 1: But two of these rooms are less than six people each, right,

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Speaker 1: and so there's less of an audience or a rate

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Speaker 1: of performance, and in theory, right, like people will just

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Speaker 1: use it to talk. Unfortunately, what we've recently realized is

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Speaker 1: that this is not back to what you're saying about,

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Speaker 1: Evan Williams, this is not what people at least adults.

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Speaker 1: Teenagers and other markets might be a completely different thing,

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Speaker 1: but when it comes to adults, right, what we found

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Speaker 1: was like it was cool. People enjoyed the experience of

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Speaker 1: being on to meet somebody knew that they wouldn't ordinarily

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Speaker 1: met or catch up with people that they don't ordinarily

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Speaker 1: fee on clip. But the reality is it's like this

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Speaker 1: is not something they're already actively doing to stay connected

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Speaker 1: with people. Right, Like we thought about, you know, how

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Speaker 1: do we change fundamentally how community works on the Internet

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Speaker 1: all of its asynchronous. We thought synchronous might work, but

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Speaker 1: there's so many in a world where we're constantly moving

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Speaker 1: and a world where we have constant inundated of content

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Speaker 1: and other things that we could do. It's just easier

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Speaker 1: to stay connected on Discord. It's easier to stay connected

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Speaker 1: on Twitter, it's easier stay connected on Instagram, be Real,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. And so I think that Discord is like

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Speaker 1: the hardest app to use by the ways. Yeah, I agree,

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Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, I agree. Um, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like, you know, if

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Speaker 1: the only way you were able to connect with people

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Speaker 1: was like you had to get on a real time

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Speaker 1: video call with them, right, all of a sudden, it's like,

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Speaker 1: use the product once a week. It's not been into

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Speaker 1: your life. And so I think for us, what we

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Speaker 1: had actually we had done different experiments and we actually

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Speaker 1: came up with this new product called jot uh. And

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Speaker 1: what jot is it's literally, I think be real meets

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Speaker 1: ig notes, So you can post once a day. It's

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Speaker 1: only text based content. You can post to your friends.

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Speaker 1: It's friends first, and you could post publicly if you

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Speaker 1: would like, right, And so like what we're seeing, um like, uh,

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Speaker 1: people are one loving that, But that this aspect where

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Speaker 1: we realize that like people already express themselves through text.

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Speaker 1: Gen Z does not use Twitter for the most part,

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Speaker 1: bespides like this all subset of tech gen Z, and

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Speaker 1: people are looking for a way to express themselves stay

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Speaker 1: in touch with their friends that might not be as

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Speaker 1: performative as putting the camera in front of my face,

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Speaker 1: but just taking a thought out of my head and

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Speaker 1: putting it into the world in a much more simpler manner.

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Speaker 1: And so I think there's tremendous opportunity in the text

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Speaker 1: medium for this kind of once a day app products.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's more like anything with social media.

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Speaker 1: It's very ze guy store, right, and I think the

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Speaker 1: zeitgeis wants to use their phones a little bit less.

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Speaker 1: They want to get out what they're saying, they don't

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Speaker 1: want to carrate themselves too much, and they don't want

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Speaker 1: to worry about a timeline following them five years later.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of my thoughts around that. Yeah, as

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Speaker 1: you brought up a term that I want to recall,

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Speaker 1: this idea of the interest graph versus the social graph,

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Speaker 1: and more and more social apps are moving to the

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Speaker 1: interest graph that you know, the fyp page for you page,

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Speaker 1: and I wonder your thoughts on the implications of moving

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Speaker 1: to the interest graph. We have had long conversations about

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Speaker 1: connectivity and staying connected with people that you know love

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Speaker 1: and friends that you're into high school with and etcetera, etc.

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Speaker 1: And I want to have that conversation about the interest

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Speaker 1: graph because in a world where you can go down

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Speaker 1: a rabbit hole on any conversation or any topic, the

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Speaker 1: interest graph and not to be provocative, but the interest

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Speaker 1: graph reverberates that it makes that even more an issue.

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Speaker 1: And so what are your thoughts on how we manage

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Speaker 1: as a society, again, not to be provocative, but how

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Speaker 1: we manage as a society the implications of the interest

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Speaker 1: graph versus the social graph. Yeah, that's a great question.

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Speaker 1: It's tough, right, because I think that when it comes

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Speaker 1: to we live in an age where information is completely

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Speaker 1: accessible and therefore we're constantly able to expound our interests,

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Speaker 1: change our interests. But a lot of interest graph networks

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Speaker 1: are very much echo chambery, right, So it's not really

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Speaker 1: about who Will is today, it's showing you who will

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Speaker 1: was a month ago, a year ago, whatever, Right, Whatever,

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Speaker 1: whatever loop you got into is usually the content it

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Speaker 1: continues to show you, which is cool in some sense

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Speaker 1: because like you've self curated your algorithm, But in another sense,

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Speaker 1: it's like human beings grow evolved, and change, except we

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Speaker 1: don't want to, especially when it comes to consuming content

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Speaker 1: or or being social on the internet. We don't want

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Speaker 1: to do too much work. Right, Like if if they're asking,

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Speaker 1: you know, you to go and say, hey, now go

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Speaker 1: reselect your interests, go relook at all these different videos,

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Speaker 1: like you're kind of like, now, it's easier to just

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Speaker 1: kind of stay in that, in that in that loop.

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Speaker 1: And I think that it's hard because we create connectivity

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Speaker 1: as human beings, and I think we get it out.

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Speaker 1: You know, when when I was younger and playing like

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Speaker 1: Call of Duty or or Tighten Far or whatever, right,

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Speaker 1: we hop on Xbox Live or PlayStation Network with my

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Speaker 1: friends and that's how we stay connected. But as I

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Speaker 1: got older, right, it's like you kind of just I

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Speaker 1: just see what's going on on Stagram, I see what's

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Speaker 1: going on Twitter, and these things are evolving from my

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Speaker 1: friends and now what they have going on to just

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Speaker 1: this interest graph. And you combine that with AI, you

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Speaker 1: combine that with deep fakes, and I'm really really good

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Speaker 1: at being able to show you, you know, exactly what

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Speaker 1: might be of interest but also skew you towards a

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Speaker 1: more radicalized approach or whatever it is that you're into, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I think it's I think I think the

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Speaker 1: world needs both because I think it's it's good to

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Speaker 1: have a place where you can just explore your interests

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Speaker 1: and see what's going on in the world, or see

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Speaker 1: what's going on within your interest segment or what people

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Speaker 1: what thought leaders are people who think about whatever your

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Speaker 1: interest is are doing. But I think it's also we

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Speaker 1: can't lose this ability to stay connected with our friends

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Speaker 1: and feel that true sense of connection because I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're basically an error where it's hard to

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Speaker 1: separate what's on TV from from you know, who's outside. Essentially, right,

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Speaker 1: TV used to be the quote unquote interest graph. It

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Speaker 1: used to be the place where we consume content, and

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Speaker 1: outside was where we saw our friends and spend time.

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Speaker 1: But now those worlds are kind of getting a little

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Speaker 1: bit too blended, right, And so that's why you might

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Speaker 1: see your friends, like on Instagram constantly posting content as

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Speaker 1: a way to cry to an interest graph as opposed

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Speaker 1: to connecting with you as a human being. So, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I think it's important for us to keep

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Speaker 1: a balance. I think we can need it inso a society,

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Speaker 1: But it's it's gonna be tough, especially when you start

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Speaker 1: adding adding the fact that byte dances, you know, essentially

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Speaker 1: a Chinese sponsor government product in terms of one of

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Speaker 1: the largest interstgraph products in the market today. I hear

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Speaker 1: that the algorithm that works in China is not the

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Speaker 1: algorithm we get. Yeah, that's that's I've heard that too.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that, I've heard different things. I've heard that

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Speaker 1: before you know when you're a teenager. When you're a teenager,

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Speaker 1: so I think before sixteen or fourteen, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the contents focus on educational self improvement, self empowerment, different

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Speaker 1: things that get people's minds and particularly teenagers' minds to

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Speaker 1: think about creating and building in and purpose. Where it's

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Speaker 1: in America, it's the algorithm. Teams are often showed it's

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Speaker 1: more about dancing having fun, which is all fine and dandy,

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Speaker 1: but the issue is what you then create, right. There's

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Speaker 1: been multiple studies around this is that gen Z younger

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Speaker 1: gen Z as well as the Alpha's the generation after

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Speaker 1: gen Z, they're top things that they want to be

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Speaker 1: as a content creator, but it's not the content that

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Speaker 1: these people want to create are not widely built around

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Speaker 1: purpose or things that actually help help you as an adult.

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Speaker 1: It's more about status or more about you know, having

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Speaker 1: the most amount of eyeballs, rather it's doing something outrageous whatever,

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Speaker 1: And so I think that's a whole different problem instead

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Speaker 1: of policy that hopefully will get either some heavy regulation

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Speaker 1: or figure out how to how to how to have

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Speaker 1: just as much control of such a widely used platform

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Speaker 1: here in the States. So it's it's interesting with what

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Speaker 1: you just brought up. So I imagine five, ten, fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago, when when social media companies were being built,

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Speaker 1: they could just build software and build tech and put

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Speaker 1: it out in the world. But what I'm hearing you

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Speaker 1: say and correct me if I'm wrong, is that when

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Speaker 1: you're building social media tech today, you've got to be

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Speaker 1: thinking about implications and regulatory things and what it does

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Speaker 1: to society. And you can't just build tech for tech

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Speaker 1: sake or just tech for fun, but you got to

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Speaker 1: think about so many other things. Yeah, this is this

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Speaker 1: is interesting because I think when early early on as

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Speaker 1: a builder, I have always approached building products as an

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Speaker 1: as an artist, and so I think that's what you

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Speaker 1: needed to consumer social products to get anything good out

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Speaker 1: of it, Because I do believe fundamentally consumer, especially the

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Speaker 1: ones that strike it's very much with the zeitgeist, and

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Speaker 1: it's very much in the moment and in the times.

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Speaker 1: And I think that when you approach it as an artist,

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Speaker 1: you're very good at capturing the energy that's in the

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Speaker 1: ether right now and funneling it into something that people

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Speaker 1: can now you know, millions, if not billions of people

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Speaker 1: can now use to express. And so I think it

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Speaker 1: starts off as fun, right like our product JOT started

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Speaker 1: off as I woke up December twenty third and I said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I called some of our engineers and I said, I

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Speaker 1: want to do something around text based expression. Here's how

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Speaker 1: we're going to do it. Design the mechanics in a

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Speaker 1: day and just started going right. But I think that

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Speaker 1: as you start to you can't just put it out

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Speaker 1: into the world and start growing as fast as possible

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Speaker 1: without taking at least some time, which is what we've

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Speaker 1: been doing in a beta testing phase, in a trunch

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Speaker 1: growth phase where maybe you're you know, you vote in

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Speaker 1: it to the public, but you're you know, you're not

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Speaker 1: letting it get to millions of users. You're actually constraining

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Speaker 1: the growth because you're trying to trying to be mindful

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Speaker 1: of the dynamics and the certain certain ways and with

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Speaker 1: certain mechanics that you designed and product can have an

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Speaker 1: implication that's on society. But it's it's it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things where I think you have to start off

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Speaker 1: as fun, but you have to be mindful once you

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Speaker 1: start creating something that people actually want to play, right, um,

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Speaker 1: and in thinking about how you how how that, how

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Speaker 1: you can how those because each platform, right, there's different

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Speaker 1: phases in which you have to think about different things.

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Speaker 1: We don't have to worry about modification of elections out

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand or even a million users, right Like

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Speaker 1: you don't need to really worry about that, Like you

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Speaker 1: might hurt your brain thinking too much. But as you know,

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Speaker 1: ten million, one hundred million users, it might be good

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Speaker 1: to think about that. So there's you know, I think

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Speaker 1: it's also a timing thing, but it's it's a it's

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Speaker 1: definitely an important thing to be thinking about that and

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Speaker 1: so many other things around social and there's a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so I'm curious on your perspective on how the

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Speaker 1: economic needs of a business dictate things that people may

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Speaker 1: appreciate about the product. And so the example I'll give is,

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Speaker 1: you know organic timelines versus you know, egalitarian timelines, and

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Speaker 1: you know, but the ones that are driven by economic incentives.

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Speaker 1: But you run in a business, right and while you

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Speaker 1: may have a crowd of people who shake their fists

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Speaker 1: because their timeline is no longer in order by you know,

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Speaker 1: actual congruent like you know actual and you know the clock,

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Speaker 1: there's an economic incentive to do it a different way.

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Speaker 1: And so not necessarily with that particular instance, but how

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Speaker 1: do you balance what might have been cool, might have

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Speaker 1: been a feature, but a need to drive economy mix

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Speaker 1: because it's still a business and if you're not paying

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Speaker 1: for it, you're the product. Yeah, so this is this

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Speaker 1: is I have a couple of thoughts here, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's when it's very platform dependent and what that

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Speaker 1: platform actually offers people. But I fundamentally believe that the biggest,

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Speaker 1: one of the best things that could have happened and

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Speaker 1: the worst thing that could have happened in the early

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Speaker 1: parts of the app Store, when apps started just becoming

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Speaker 1: a thing, the best thing and the worst thing was

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Speaker 1: everybody started expecting products for free. So as a builder,

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Speaker 1: as a business owner, right, we can put hundreds of thousands,

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars into development. People might not use the product, right,

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Speaker 1: people might use the product, I don't know, but guess what,

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Speaker 1: Rather they use it or they don't use it. Everybody

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Speaker 1: expects it for free, and unfortunately, right the millions of

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Speaker 1: dollars needs to be you know, recouped in some form

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Speaker 1: or fashion. And so I think what's happened is that

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Speaker 1: because people we go on the free route and we

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Speaker 1: see what companies have to do to monetize free based platforms,

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Speaker 1: and I think people are more and more not liking that, right.

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Speaker 1: And I think that on top of that, people are

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Speaker 1: just are also just willing to pay for things. If

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Speaker 1: the value proposition is clear or you you you you yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's the value proposition is clear, people are

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Speaker 1: willing to pay for things. And so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: there was one point I thought about putting an app

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Speaker 1: out in the app store for three hundred dollars. Initially,

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Speaker 1: I think that people should be or builders companies. If

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Speaker 1: they build something that people actually love, you can charge

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Speaker 1: money for in the app store. You can charge money

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Speaker 1: for it via a subscription. You could charge money for

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Speaker 1: it versus a freemium model. Right. So, like if you

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Speaker 1: look at something like Tender, Tender is a free product.

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Speaker 1: It is, but it operates like a video game in

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Speaker 1: the sense where hey, you know, after I don't know

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Speaker 1: what it is nowadays, but like back in then it

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Speaker 1: needs to be like fifty swipes, right, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you want more swipes, you need to pay, or if

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Speaker 1: you want to be able to to see who's who's

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Speaker 1: swiped on you first, you know, pay the subscription. And

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Speaker 1: that's a model that's working very well for Tender. I

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Speaker 1: think they've they've crossed at least over you know, one

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Speaker 1: point five billion dollars an annual recruiting revenue. And it's

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Speaker 1: a product that's both free and paid. And so I

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Speaker 1: think what I think that we need to move into

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Speaker 1: a direction where we have more freemium models. Um. And

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Speaker 1: so what that does is it makes up for the

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Speaker 1: if the if you're if a person's not paying for

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Speaker 1: the product, it doesn't mean you are the product. It

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Speaker 1: just means that, due to network effects, somebody else in

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Speaker 1: the network is paying for your ability to use the product. Right.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a more it's just basic business and

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Speaker 1: hopefully you know, I think Hopefully that becomes more of

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Speaker 1: a standard because far the longest time, I think just

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Speaker 1: what happened was like, you know, even back in the day,

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Speaker 1: Snapchat was like, oh, we'll charge money for filtering, right, like,

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna do advertising, We're not gonna do media.

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Speaker 1: And like people, I'm not favorite filters. I love youth

429
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: and filters, but I don't want to favorite filters. And

430
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: it's like, well, you know, just as though we are businesses,

431
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: we also have to answer to the market, and the

432
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: market don't want something. We just can't make it, make

433
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: it happen. You know, when you're building consumer phacing applications,

434
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: there are certain metrics that indicate if you're finding success

435
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: long before you make it to an afrotech dot com headline.

436
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: You could prioritize engagement rates, video views, sign up completion rates,

437
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: but there are other metrics that can be even more important.

438
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: Vernon speaks on it, it was like an intimate happy hour,

439
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: and for us, the metrics were about retention day twenty eight. Retention.

440
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: We're obviously looking at day three, day seven, but day

441
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: twenty eight is really where you see the make or break,

442
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: because after day twenty eight usually you'll you'll see eighty

443
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: to ninety percent of that cohort stick. Well, well, you

444
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: know months later, right, and so we're looking heavily at

445
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: day twenty eight retention, we're looking heavily at times spent.

446
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: So I think some of four of the more recent

447
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: metrics around click were like, uh, you know, time spent

448
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,479
Speaker 1: was around I think three hours and thirty six minutes

449
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 1: a week, right, And so like you look deeper in

450
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: those metrics, you say, well, how you know, how many

451
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: times do they open the app? How many times are

452
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 1: they hopping into a chat room? And of those times

453
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: that they hop into a chat room, or are these

454
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: you know, thirty or forty chats where you're doing ten

455
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: minute conversations or think it's like two chats where you

456
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: have an hour and a half conversation each. And so

457
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: we try to look at that data in different different

458
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: ways to understand and it more. But we care a

459
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: lot about time spent and retention. I think, but jot,

460
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: which is you know, very very different. It's asynchronous first, right,

461
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 1: you're putting out a thought in sixty characters or less.

462
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: It disappears twenty four hours later, and you can't see

463
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: your friends stuff until you post right, and so with

464
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: JO we're looking at we're looking at time spent, which

465
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: is good, but our more important metrics are still retention

466
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: day twenty, day three, day seven, day twenty eight. With

467
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 1: a product like job, day twenty eight still matters, but

468
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: day three and day seven can tell you a lot

469
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: very quickly, just because it's so much the barrier to entry.

470
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: To use it does not require a conversation. It just

471
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: requires letting out whatever is in your mind. And so

472
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: we think about the retention and then K factor, which

473
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: is really really important, and so K factor is really

474
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: the I think the tech took that term from from medicine,

475
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: which is like the rate in which a virus virus spreads.

476
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: It is long before COVID. It was just like, how

477
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: do you how does you know if each The whole

478
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: point of K factor is like if does one user

479
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: become two users? Right, or does one user become you know, three,

480
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be for an early stage product,

481
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: well for a late stage product. I remember talking to

482
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: the founder of Door to Action years ago. It's like,

483
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: you're usually gonna have a K factor around point three,

484
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: eight point four eight when you're much later, but that

485
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: is not the case when your social networks early, your

486
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: social network when it's early, the K factors should really

487
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: be uh, you know two or above, right, like if

488
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: people if if you get on, if you get on

489
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: job will and you don't send it to you only

490
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: send it to like one friend. And K factor is

491
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: not about how many invites you sent, it's the rate

492
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: of invites that were accepted and people signed up. So

493
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: if you sent four but two accepted, then you know,

494
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: like that's actually what matters. And so if you know,

495
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: I think the perfect example was early Cuphouse, right, like

496
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: people were K factor people were each person wasn't bringing

497
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: on one person, they were bringing on four people on average,

498
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: five people on average. And that's how you have this

499
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: like Crazil crazy, you know, viral moment and so you know,

500
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: I yeah, it's for different platforms, requires different things. For Job,

501
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: it's retention, it's it's K factor, it's time spent. And

502
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: outside of that, it's really about looking top of funnel

503
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: at downloads. And so I'll just say this one last

504
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: thing about downloads, like build a social network nowadays. There

505
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: was a time in twenty twenty where me and a

506
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: group of fifty random gen z did the Imaufi movement

507
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: where we captured Twitter's attention for thirty six hours and

508
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: we raised over three hundred. People thought we had a

509
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: real product, and we funneled all we funneled all this

510
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: interest and all this energy. Explain what that is so

511
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: people we wouldn't know. Yeah, so so so we basically

512
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: h we basically me and fifty gen z had i

513
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: emog malth emog i emog. We had created a viral

514
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: little website that let people retweet like you would sign up,

515
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: give us your information. It was a lackey website and

516
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: then you once you finish, it was like getting their

517
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: early access. People don't even know what they were getting

518
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: early access to retweet, right, So that's a viral people

519
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: started sharing. So within less than thirty six hours, there's

520
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: over fifty thousand people signed up. Right. We did a

521
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: merch drop in a minute. In twenty eight seconds, we

522
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: sold over ten thousand dollars worth of merch. There was

523
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: vcson every in all fifty of our dms asking to

524
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: us to lead a round of something they didn't know about,

525
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: just because we could capture attention. And at the end

526
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 1: of it, we ended up raising I think about three

527
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty k or four hunder k for different

528
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter organizations at that time. But it was

529
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: basically a weekend project where we capture people's attention. And

530
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: you see this with companies like Mischief and others where

531
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: when you're looking at top of I correlate that to

532
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: the aspect of getting top of funnel downs for anybody

533
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: out there who might be thinking about building a consumer product,

534
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: you have to create viral moments. This is why most

535
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: products from airbuds to Sincerely or anything else that's currently

536
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: popping off that's probably gonna raise like ten to twenty

537
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: million dollars in the next couple of weeks, they've captured

538
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: viral moments through either TikTok or their You know, Mischief

539
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: is constantly get a different influence to where those little

540
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: red boots and post about it and it creates a

541
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: moment where people want to talk about something. But you

542
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: have to be willing to do wacky, weird stuff to

543
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: capture people's attention in a world where they're inundated by everything, right,

544
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: because if you don't get the top of funnel, every

545
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: viral moment needs a catalyst, just like every virus needs

546
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: a catalyst. You got to start it off and kick

547
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: it off. I'm glad you brought up Clubhouse a second ago,

548
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: as a part of that success was we were all

549
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: locked in the house because they happen during COVID, and

550
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: some of that has proven out other than the fact

551
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: that you know, maybe they've got some issues getting rolling

552
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: out cool features in et cetera. But part of that

553
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: is proving out because we're outside now and they aren't

554
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: as popular as they were. But I'm using that example

555
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: because you raised money during COVID, and what was the

556
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: opera tunity you saw during that time that made it

557
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: still the right time to raise capital when everyone else

558
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: was well, everybody was uncertain and what the future looked like.

559
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, every everybody was so uncertain. And not just

560
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter, but if I was, I was talking to

561
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: friends and advisors and everybody's like, you know, that was

562
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: out of good time to raise money, YadA YadA, YadA. Um.

563
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: We you know we even had like we had only

564
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: raised like fifty K and angel money, which is not

565
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: a lowed when you're living in San Francisco and you

566
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 1: dropped out of college a year before that, it's just

567
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: not much to live off of UM and so we

568
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: we we were we were pretty much completely out of

569
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: money UM and we were we had like two acquisition offers,

570
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: which would have been great. But the thought process, the

571
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: thing I was thinking back to what we said earlier

572
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: in this interview was like social is like geistel and

573
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: so we had spent a lot of time building a

574
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: product around connecting people in person on college campuses, and

575
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: it was working and we had great retention. We had

576
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: tens of thousand users. Still could have raised any money.

577
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: I think we know why. But the point is that

578
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a minute, I really care about

579
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: allowing people to be their authentic selves. I really care

580
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: about community. And so on that eight weeks, me, me

581
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: and a friend went out to the mountains in South

582
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: Carolina and we just started building. In that eight weeks,

583
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: we were trying a bunch of different ideas and I

584
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, we can connect people through

585
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: video and audio. And I actually know that The last person,

586
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: one of the last people I met in San Francisco

587
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: was Paul Davidson before you put out Clubhouse. So I

588
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: was already understood and we had a zoom like the

589
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: week the week before he released it that one and

590
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: he was talking about this aspect of building products with

591
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: just one button, and I was like, there's gonna be

592
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: a moment. You know, if everybody starts talking about it

593
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: now is the time, then you sometimes you've already missed

594
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,959
Speaker 1: the boat versus just saying, you know what, I can

595
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: create the time. And it felt like the Zeke guys people,

596
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: we're gonna build things that allow people to communicate and

597
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: interact with this new found where we lived in where

598
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: we're just in our houses and we weren't able to

599
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: travel and we didn't really want to meet people in person.

600
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: Clubhouse was one of them, Locker room was one of them,

601
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 1: Real Time was one of them. There was a lot

602
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: of different different products around that time, but I felt

603
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: like I just felt like it was the time for

604
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: that product for the market. And usually capital follows. We

605
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: noticed vcs. They'll tend to say, oh, well, you know

606
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: those just say whatever, whatever the thing is right, and

607
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: then when it changes, that change didn't just come out

608
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: of nowhere. Came out of something. Yes, we can talk

609
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: about zero interest rates or whatever, but it also came

610
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: out of consumers wanting something new and actually gravitating towards

611
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: that so much that I had a market pool to say, oh,

612
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: you know what this is consumers, we're funding again, so

613
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: and sos worth doing this. But if you you know,

614
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: if I listened to I spent four or five years

615
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: building consumer products that just weren't getting funded because it

616
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: wasn't the time. Even though it was the time another

617
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: product or getting funded, It's just way harder to raise

618
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: money while you're black. And so I just was like,

619
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: I just to me, I just felt like it's the

620
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: right time to be building what we're building, That's all

621
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: that matters. And secondly, talking to talking to some of

622
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: the best investors right like Sam Altman came in and

623
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: came into our round, founder open Ai. A lot of

624
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: people think Alexis had like was the first catalyst and

625
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: then everything else changed. Alexis is the last last check

626
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: at nat Troncha Capital. Before Alexis, we had Sam Altman,

627
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: we had the founder Kickstarter, Nancy Stricker, the founder of

628
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: meet Up, the founder of coruntry World, the largest anime

629
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: platform in the world, you know, the founder of Twitch. Like.

630
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: We had pretty much have been raising funding before we

631
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: had our our bigger moment with our larger steed round

632
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: but it just came from just keep going and building

633
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: what we thought people would actually want, even though our

634
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: business was completely irrelevant beforehand. In terms of IROL and

635
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: college campuses, those were both done for in March to

636
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Yeah, I mean, you've got some incredible, incredibly

637
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: smart investors UM and particularly I mean you got again

638
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: you named him Sam Altman, who's investing heavily and spending

639
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 1: his time heavily in AIM. And they've seen a million ideas,

640
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: particularly Sam tole me he ran hy combinators. I mean,

641
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 1: they've seen a million ideas, really great ideas, and they

642
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: passed on probably more way more than they took. Right,

643
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 1: what was it about you that they said, we're making

644
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: the beat if you can put yourself in the shoes. Yeah,

645
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about that because it's it's it's and we

646
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: still never got into YC. So that's you know. But

647
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: the thing about Sam is, like all these different people

648
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: someone want to met through others, but for instance, Sam

649
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: I met so before I dropped out of college. I

650
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: would take the bus and I would take ride shares

651
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: with random people on Facebook, like college ride share groups,

652
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: and I would come up to the city. That's like

653
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: a two to three hour thing. And I remember I

654
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: had maybe like one hundred dollars in my account or something,

655
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: and but my AirPods were broken. And I love listening

656
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: to music. I make music, I make fashion, I do

657
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: I do other things outside of just product, but it

658
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: helps create better ideas. I needed to go to replace

659
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: my AirPods. It was like sixty dollars and I was like,

660
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna spend it. I don't care, right, Like,

661
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: forty dollars should be enough for me to get back

662
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: down to Santa Cruz and I ran into Sam Altman

663
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: at the Apple Store. And I had been watching back

664
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: in high schools, watching Why see Startup Schools, watching all

665
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: these things, and so I have heavy, heavy facial recognition.

666
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: The way I had met Sam, I did not ask

667
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: talk to him about my company. I talked to him

668
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: about what was first on my mind, which was YC

669
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: and Black Founders and what is YC thinking about around that.

670
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: I think that was something that kind of was like

671
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: one that's different. Most people are not talking about that.

672
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: This is not the climate of D D and I yet,

673
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: so people were really even especially Black D and I,

674
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: was a completely different thing. But like we were just

675
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: having a real conversation about that. We talked a little

676
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: bit about my company, and then we had just kept

677
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: a relationship going for two years, and that's you know,

678
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: when the time came, I just I gave him a call,

679
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: I gave him a text. He's like I could talk

680
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: to night. And we talked the next day and then

681
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: he was like, hey, yeah, like I'll put in put

682
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: in money. I mean, we literally got a recommendation from

683
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: great people at YC. We got to our interview and

684
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: still didn't get into YC. And people used to have

685
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: my mind jacked up thinking I had to have an accelerate,

686
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: I had to have this. But you know, Sam wasn't

687
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: just the only person where it was a random running

688
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: like that. The CPO tender, the founder Kickstarter, these were

689
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: all like me hustling and randomly walking into these people

690
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: are going to have ment where these people would be

691
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 1: speaking and you know, sneaking backstage to talk to him.

692
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: And so I think just being my full authentic self

693
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: and just following the energy, despite what some idea of

694
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: a rule of what you shouldn't say, what you can't say,

695
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: what you shouldn't do, I think that's what's helped me

696
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: stick stuck out in the minds of these people? But

697
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure they can answer that question a whole lot

698
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: better than me. I'm just one account. Black tag Green

699
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: Money is a production of Blackvity Afro Tech, a black

700
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: effect podcast network. Can I Hire Media? You Just Produced

701
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: by Morgan Dubond and me Well Lucas well additional production

702
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: support by Sarah Ergony Rose McLucas. Special thank you to

703
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: Michael David. Something That's a serranto. Learn more about my

704
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: guest and other technistupen an innovators at afrotech dot com.

705
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: Enjoying Black Tech Green Money. Share this with somebody, Go

706
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: get your money. Peace of luck,