1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: I never told you production of I Heart Radio. So 3 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: for today's questions of Antha, I'm just curious, do you 4 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: have a lot of knowledge or experiences with the Catholic Church. Uh. 5 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: The only thing I really know about the Catholic Church 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: has everything to do with TV, so so like the 7 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: Da Vinci Code and or any real horror movies about 8 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: possession yea. And of course I know about all of 9 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: the scandals within the Catholic Church and a little bit 10 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: of the history of the Catholic Church so way back 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: when with all the wars mm hmm. But that's about it. 12 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: So I don't know the inner and out of all 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: of this, like being confirmed and all that. Yeah, about you, Well, 14 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: I also have a lot of knowledge from horror movies. 15 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: To Motte was one of my favorite horror movies when 16 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: I was a kid, which was not even and I 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: talked about that not good. Um, And I'm sure the 18 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: Catholic Church really doesn't like that that our knowledge goes 19 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: her movies. But Katie, who you've now heard on the show, 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: she was one of my best friends growing up, and 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: she her family, her mom is really Catholic and her 22 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: dad's really Methodist, which I thought was so cool as 23 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: a child. But one time she took me and Katie 24 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: took me to church, and I think we were nine, 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: to the Catholic church, and she was really concerned I 26 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: was gonna embarrass her. So she was giving me all 27 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: these like you can't do this, you can't do this 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: because you're not Catholic, you can't do this. And it 29 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: was only us in the church, and I was trying 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: to like teaser, and I just shouted at the top 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: of my lungs, give me that communion. And it turns 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: out the priest was actually and I wasn't really thrilled 33 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, and then I just sort of sat 34 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: quietly during the whole thing. I was I was kind 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: of jealous about the confession thing. I don't know why. 36 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: And then my ex boyfriend who I dated for three years, 37 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: his family was Catholic, and so I did end up 38 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:25,399 Speaker 1: going to a lot of um very long, very long ceremonies. 39 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,119 Speaker 1: So I have experience in that way, but I yeah, 40 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: I'm not very familiar outside of what I know from 41 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: them and what I know from horror movie. Right for me, 42 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: my family who is very Western Christian, so very Protestant. 43 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: They're not exactly first Baptist. They're a little more old school, 44 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: very mystic for the lack of better terms, in comparison 45 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: to so, seeing any other religion outside of our denomination, 46 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: right was heretical. So me even trying to step foot 47 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: into a Catholic charge, I think my mother would have 48 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: been upset outside of like the cultural areas. So I 49 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: had all the beautiful art and you know, history of it, 50 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: and that's about it. So everything like growing up it 51 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: was just like a even though I did have a 52 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: family member who was a devout Catholic and had the 53 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: Jewelry and had the Saints and all of that, which 54 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: I was fascinated by. I'm fascinated by saints in general. 55 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, seeing all of that, like growing up with that, 56 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: the Catholics were the other for my family. Yeah they did. 57 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: I mean that because the religion is so old and 58 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: it has been in so many movies and TV. And 59 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: I remember as a kid being like they drink wine, 60 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: but oh we had the welchest grape juice. We had 61 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: the unlove and breath and foot washing like it was 62 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: when I say level of mystical. It was level. Yeah, 63 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: that's very southern, Samantha, You're welcome. So oh, I forgot 64 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: one of our co workers, I need to look this 65 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: up after because I totally forgot about this. His grandfather 66 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: used to work at the Vatican and he had a 67 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: Wikipedia page. Oh yeah, yeah, but that is for another time. 68 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: All is to say, we're doing a very brief look 69 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: at why women can't become popes. But clearly, Samantha and 70 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: I are not religious theologians. We don't know a lot 71 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: about the Catholic religion outside of these things we picked 72 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: up from friends or entertainment, so please don't turn to 73 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: us through that. Also, we all absolutely recognize that this 74 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: is a form of belief and if you believe in this, 75 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: that is all you and absolutely that you need to 76 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: do what you feel is in your faith and what 77 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: keeps you going. Yes, yes, I will say I because 78 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: Katie was my best friend and her family was very 79 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: very religious, this idea of the pope has long been 80 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: something of a curiosity to me, and especially because I 81 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: loved Harry Potter when we were growing up together, and 82 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: the pope I can't remember which one, but basically one 83 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,119 Speaker 1: pope I think it was. John Paul said, yes, Harry 84 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: Potter is fine, and the previous pope had said it 85 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: wasn't fine. And so she went from not allowing Katie 86 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: to read it to allowing her to read it and 87 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: actually suggesting it to me, and me being like, all right, 88 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: I'm happy we can read it now, But I mean 89 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 1: we could talk about the whole level of witchcraft and 90 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: religion in general, because my parents were absolutely we couldn't 91 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: even dress up, and that is again a very Protestant 92 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: the point. Yeah, yeah. I had another friend who I 93 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: had to sneak Harry Potter to her because her parents 94 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: have thought it was like an anti religious and they 95 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: would let her read it. Um, little trouble, may girl. 96 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: I was with the books you were. So this episode 97 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: is brought to you by my curiosity. I was curious 98 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: if a woman could ever be the Pope. I have 99 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: no idea why this came to my mind, as far 100 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: as I know, I didn't consume any news item about it, 101 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,239 Speaker 1: but I was just suddenly like, can a woman become 102 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: the Pope? The answer is no? Um, right now, the 103 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: answer is no, because in order to become the pope, 104 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: he had to be ordained and women are currently prohibited 105 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: from becoming priest, worth noting this is based on history, 106 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: not doctrine. There's nothing that says women can't become priest 107 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: or the pope. The Catholic Church argues that this is 108 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: based on the fact that Jesus chose twelve men to 109 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: be apostles and that they in turn chose men to 110 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: continue their ministries and their absence. On top of that, 111 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: during communion, when Catholics believe that the bread and wine 112 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: become the body of Jesus Christ and the priest recites 113 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: the last words of Jesus Christ, do this in remembrance 114 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: of me, The Church capital c believes that this should 115 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: physically be a man, the person administering this, like Jesus was. 116 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: Even the discussion of the possibility of women as priests 117 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: has been called disrespectful to the Catholic religion. And to reiterate, 118 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: obviously we're talking about like the church and the higher 119 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: ups at the Church. Not all Catholicism has practiced this way. 120 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: I am pretty sure I've heard about maybe less than official, 121 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: but female priest. This is the Church's stance, though this 122 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: is their official stance. End of episode, just kidding I'm 123 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: not gonna lie as you're talking about this, and we're 124 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: gonna talk a little more. I couldn't help about Shane O'Connor, 125 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: which we've already talked about your big mishap in confusing 126 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: her with Donna Lewis. And I'm still very upset about this, 127 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: and I will never find that miss up uh and 128 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: I will never forget it. Like I was like, if 129 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: you've done cranberries anybody but this other person, I would 130 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: forgiven you. But Snad O'Connor was infamous for ripping the 131 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: Pope picture on SNL and got oustd it essentially by 132 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: her whole industry. She is now a priest that was 133 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: ordained by the controversial Bishop Michael Cox. And of course 134 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: there's this hell back and forth about whether or not 135 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: she could be a priest because she is a woman. 136 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: Um and her saying nothing you can do will invalidate 137 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: my priesthood to specific people who are trying to say 138 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 1: she's not. So I find that interesting that she still 139 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: is well was, as of this article, um, a part 140 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: of that industry. I guess it was that she did this. Yeah, So, 141 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of things that would go 142 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: back forth and and I do remember that a part 143 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: of the Catholic Church. That is something that is seared 144 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: into my brain growing up just enough. Y I. So 145 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: there have been some moves to expand positions open to 146 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: women in the Capital c Church. Earlier in one sister 147 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: Natalie Beckhart from France became the first woman appointed as 148 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: the under Secretary of the Synod of Bishops, granting her 149 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: voting rights. These bishops debate important issues impacting the Roman 150 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: Catholic Church and advised the pontiff. This is after Pope 151 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: Francis appointed six women to counsel and oversees the finances 152 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: of the Vatican, among other positions, and updated church laws 153 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: to allow women to serve to the altar and administer 154 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: a communion. And we know Pope Francis and Pope Benedict 155 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: were a little more liberal as popes. Yeah, I should 156 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: ask Katie how her mom is with Pope Francis, because 157 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: she was okay and the last one. The more liberal 158 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: things happening that I'm not sure about this, I'm curious. Interestingly, 159 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: there has been a soul woman pope. According to medieval legend, 160 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: Pope Joan, or actually Pope John or Johannes Uncle Kiss, 161 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: who was actually a woman named Joan Um, a thirteenth 162 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: century monk, wrote about how Pope Joan became pregnant and 163 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: ended up giving birth during a church procession. As with 164 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: smoth things like this, though there's a lot of debate 165 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: whether this person man or woman even existed, there is 166 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 1: recent archaeological discoveries there have been that indicate that this 167 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: person may have existed. You know, we talked about Joan 168 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: of Lark No, okay, just just checking another religious Joan. 169 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: There can be more than one religious Joan. I would 170 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: love to come back and revisit this. But people aren't 171 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: sure that this person existed, but potentially they did. And 172 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: actually these recent discoveries people are using in arguments about well, 173 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: if she did exist, then women can't there is a 174 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: precedent and women can be pope. So ongoing conversation. Obviously, 175 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: as you touched on, Samantha, there are a lot of 176 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: other issues with the Catholic Church that we could it 177 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: and probably will one day talk about. But this is 178 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: just me having a random question and hoping that some 179 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: of you listeners might have had this question at one 180 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: point too. Yeah, there you go. I didn't. I never knew. 181 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to think on general about religion 182 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: and women in overall arguing and all the issues within 183 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: religion period. So we could just leave that as a period, uh, 184 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: and not just the Catholic Church and we've talked a 185 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: little bit about that overall. But yeah, so good to 186 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: know maybe there was a there was a female pope. 187 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: Maybe not Joan, Yeah, no, a different Joane. And when 188 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: I was reading this is a big area of debate 189 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: about whether it should be changed at all to allow 190 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: women to become pope, to become the pope, and even 191 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: proponents of it and people who have studied Catholicism are like, yeah, 192 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: probably would will never happen, but I mean there have 193 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: been some changes, so we'll see, we will see. Yes. 194 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: In the main time, listeners, we would love to hear 195 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: from you our email Stuff Media mom Stuff at I 196 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: Heart media dot com. You can find it on Twitter 197 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram. Stuff I've never 198 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: told you. Thanks It's always to our super producer Christina. 199 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening. Steph, 200 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: I never told you his protection about hier radio for 201 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: more podcast When My Heart Radio is that I heart 202 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: radio app, Apple podcast, or where you listen to your 203 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: favorite shows.