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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Man, Welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.

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Speaker 2: Mark break with us as we talk about the Beatles.

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Speaker 2: His book is called The Science of the Beatles. Mark,

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Speaker 2: in your opinion, what made the Beatles so successful? Was

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Speaker 2: it timing, was it the era? What do you think

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Speaker 2: it was?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think a lot. I mean I read recently.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how true it is that they're very

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Speaker 3: different people. Lennon was associated with Wit McCartney, with charm

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Speaker 3: Allison with spirituality, and Ringo was the joker of the band.

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Speaker 3: You know, he was the guy to American reporters when

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Speaker 3: they asked, how did you find a medic accent? We

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Speaker 3: just turned left at Greenland, you know, that kind of

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Speaker 3: that kind of gaga to come up with. Whereas in

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Speaker 3: the sixties only five percent of people could name all

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Speaker 3: the Rolling Stones, ninety five percent of people could name

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Speaker 3: all the Beatles. So it's a lot to do with

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Speaker 3: sheer personality, and then again it's to do with innovation.

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Speaker 3: The catchy melodies, the simple hooks and harmonies, and the songs.

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Speaker 3: I think that ensured mass appeal. There's a lyrical maturity

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Speaker 3: later on in the kind of topics they titled in

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Speaker 3: the songs that they made. I heard a little snippet

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Speaker 3: of yesterday just now on your radio, and I was

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Speaker 3: thinking about eleanor Rigby that I like Yesterday used a

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Speaker 3: string quartet in the production to make the thing dramatic,

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Speaker 3: and one of the innovations and the use of strings,

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Speaker 3: and Elan Rigby was actually borrowing the kind of jagged

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Speaker 3: sound of the strings in Psycho. You know how many

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Speaker 3: of your listeners were aware of that, but they deliberately

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Speaker 3: tried to make Elan Ribby sound dramatic by adopting this

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Speaker 3: kind of psycho string effect. So it's a number of

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Speaker 3: things to do with, you know, the way they may music,

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Speaker 3: the recording techniques, the personalities and the Beatles themselves, and

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Speaker 3: also tackling universal themes in their songs. As the decade

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Speaker 3: of the sixties wore on, you know, love and then

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Speaker 3: counterculture and all that kind of stuff made them, I

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Speaker 3: think popular.

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Speaker 2: What were so popular about the Beatles in terms of

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Speaker 2: the age brackets? What age brackets do you think really

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Speaker 2: like them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question. Ed that they seemed to

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Speaker 3: have appealed to all brackets, didn't they From young to old.

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Speaker 3: They seemed to have a very very wide demographic. I

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Speaker 3: think that must have something to do with the way

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Speaker 3: in which they borrowed from all these different subgenres of

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Speaker 3: music something for everybody. You know, they ex expanded pops

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Speaker 3: boundaries by dabbling in all these different musical forms. And

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Speaker 3: of course the fact that it's some melodic and catchy

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Speaker 3: I think has a lot to do with it. Scientists

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Speaker 3: found out out there were scientists working on the Max

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Speaker 3: Planck Institute in Germany who listened to about seven hundred

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Speaker 3: of the most famous and popular songs and came to

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Speaker 3: the conclusion that the most scientifically catchy addictive song is

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Speaker 3: Oh Bloody or bla dar, the Beatles song from nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty eight on the White Album as we now call it.

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Speaker 3: So there's obviously something that makes you wonder what scientists

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Speaker 3: are doing when they just sitting around listening to albums

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Speaker 3: and listen to the songs. But it's that element of

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Speaker 3: surprise which lends itself to the catchiness of a song,

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Speaker 3: and they say, if you want a catchy song, you know,

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Speaker 3: a very infectious song from intro to outro, then the

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Speaker 3: Beatles are going to do it, and Oh Bloody of

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Speaker 3: Bladar is probably the most catchiest, so that's another element

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Speaker 3: to it.

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Speaker 2: They're still popular today.

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Speaker 3: Why, I think it has to do with those elements

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Speaker 3: that we went through, because they if you listen to

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Speaker 3: the album now, a lot of people listen to the

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Speaker 3: more sophisticated albums Rubbisto, Revolver, Sergeant Purpose and so on,

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Speaker 3: but the early albums are very infectiously enthusiastic and like

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Speaker 3: Joyce experience to listen to, so they seem more perfect

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Speaker 3: than ever. And they also represent a very positive decade,

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Speaker 3: don't they. The Beatles are synonymous with the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 3: so it's like a moment in time to a certain

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Speaker 3: extent that particular decade. You're right about them being still popular.

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Speaker 3: Some Mendies, the Oscar winning film director, is making four

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Speaker 3: movies of the Beatles in twenty twenty seven, and he's

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Speaker 3: got to be You would have thought that the film

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Speaker 3: studio would have been pretty confident even in twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: seven the Beatles would be popular enough for them to

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Speaker 3: be able to make four individual movies, one from each

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Speaker 3: of the band members' perspectives. So that's an indication I think,

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Speaker 3: of course, people are still re recording Beatles' classics. Beyonce

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Speaker 3: recorded Blackbird on her recent cow By Carter album, which

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Speaker 3: I think I'm right in saying. The acoustic soundtrack on

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Speaker 3: Beyonce's cover is the same soundtrack from the original song

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Speaker 3: that the Beatles recorded in nineteen sixty eight. So I

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Speaker 3: think it's very much part of our story in the

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Speaker 3: West from the nineteen sixties to today. It's one of

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Speaker 3: the great stories of the last century, I guess. So

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Speaker 3: it's timeless as well, which helps. So everybody's got a

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Speaker 3: kind of personal relationship with the Beatles and their music,

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Speaker 3: which I think makes it so popular.

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Speaker 2: Mark in nineteen sixty six, a rumor started that Paul

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Speaker 2: McCartney had died in a car crash. I remember that

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Speaker 2: explicitly from a radio station in Detroit w kN R

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Speaker 2: at the time, where Russ Gibb, one of the DJs,

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Speaker 2: started part of that story. Do you remember that, No, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Sorry the second and to it. I mean, I know

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Speaker 3: the theory and I know the story, but I don't

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Speaker 3: remember from the time. I often think that if that

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Speaker 3: were true, they did incredibly well to find another extremely

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Speaker 3: good looking, an incredibly talented Liverpudlian who looked exactly like

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Speaker 3: McCartney and had all his talents, because McCartney is an

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Speaker 3: incredibly When Obama presented McCartney with in twenty ten a

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Speaker 3: George Gershon Award, he pointed out that McCartney was the

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Speaker 3: most successful songwriter in history. I thought, if you're going

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Speaker 3: to replace him with somebody similar, that would be some

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Speaker 3: incredible feat. Wouldn't it To get somebody as talented to

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Speaker 3: do the same thing would make it less likely that

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Speaker 3: he'd been replaced.

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Speaker 2: In fact, the I Buried Paul Rumor was genius for

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Speaker 2: marketing because it sold records like crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I suppose that's true. By the way, Obama. When

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Speaker 3: Obama's presenting McCartney without a war back in twenty ten,

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Speaker 3: he pointed out that McCartney had composed nearly two hundred

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Speaker 3: songs that had made the charts and stayed on the

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Speaker 3: charts for a combined total of thirty two years. I

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Speaker 3: mean that's something, isn't it In terms of longevity?

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Speaker 2: It's huge. How old is McCartney now?

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Speaker 3: I think he's in is it eighties? Isn't he in

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Speaker 3: his midd he was one and about forty two, I

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Speaker 3: think right in the same so he's about eighty three

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Speaker 3: or four. Also, I should say.

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Speaker 2: His birthday's coming up in June.

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Speaker 3: I think, so is yours, George, Happy birthday?

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Speaker 2: Thank you mine the next week? Yes, I know, truly remarkable,

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Speaker 2: and I mean in Paul's still performing as is Ringo, right.

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Speaker 3: That's right. They were both recording performing recently. McCartney himself

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Speaker 3: headlined Glastonbury just a couple of years or so ago.

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Speaker 3: And what's neat about that performance in Glastonbury Because Peter

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Speaker 3: Jackson made the Get Back documentary and they were able

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Speaker 3: to isolate John Lennon's voice using AI, McCartney and Lennon

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Speaker 3: were able to sing together as it were in real

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Speaker 3: time by using film footage and a recording of Lennon

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Speaker 3: and McCartney being on stage and singing along with him

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Speaker 3: at the same time. I thought that was quite a

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Speaker 3: neat trick. And of course they used AI, didn't they

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Speaker 3: last year to release that Beatles record now and then?

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Speaker 3: So these were which is really appropriate when you think

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Speaker 3: about how pioneering the Beatles word and recording technology for

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Speaker 3: them to be the band the ROLESO associated with an

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Speaker 3: AI track seems really fitting.

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Speaker 2: Movies? Were they in mark? I remember the Yellow Submarine?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was Hard Days Night, wasn't there? That was

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Speaker 3: unusual as well? Talking about Beatle first, I think that's

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Speaker 3: apart from the Elvis movies, of course, that's I think

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Speaker 3: the Beatles might have been one of the first bands

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Speaker 3: to be in their own movies. So there was Hard

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Speaker 3: Day's Night, and there was Help, wasn't there? There was

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Speaker 3: the Yellow Submarine. Magical Mystery Tour was a television movie,

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Speaker 3: so that isn't quite the same, And then there was

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Speaker 3: also Let It Be It was. There was about half

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Speaker 3: a dozen I think altogether.

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Speaker 2: They were on the Ed Sullivant Show at least twice.

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Speaker 2: Weren't they astrid?

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Speaker 3: When you were playing yesterday? Just now, I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about the fact that McCartney was on I think one

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Speaker 3: of the American chat shows. It might have been Stephen Cobert.

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Speaker 2: Is that his name called Cobert?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Cobert. I think he was on that, or maybe

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Speaker 3: he was in Letter on Us, I can't quite remember.

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Speaker 3: And he was talking about the fact that one of

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Speaker 3: the stage hands said to McCartney, because McCartney sung yesterday

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Speaker 3: on Ed Sullivan, it wasn't the first appearance. It was

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Speaker 3: the second appearance, I think, and he was a little

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Speaker 3: nervous because he was performing by himself for the first time.

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Speaker 3: They wanted to do yesterday on the stage hands said

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Speaker 3: to him something like, oh, don't worry about it. Last

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Speaker 3: time only seventy three million people were watching, McCartney said,

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Speaker 3: made his nerves even worse, as you can imagine.

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Speaker 2: We led Sullivan did the same with Elvis Presley. You

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Speaker 2: put him on there and the skyrocketed after that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I remember the stories about after that appearance they

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Speaker 3: would only form Elvis from.

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Speaker 2: The waist up.

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Speaker 1: Ye.

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Speaker 2: That's how talented were the Beatles in music? Did they

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Speaker 2: have lessons? Were they trained?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: No, Actually that's a great question. They weren't trained, and

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Speaker 3: I think the fact that they weren't trained is one

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Speaker 3: of them. May sound odd, but it's one of the

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Speaker 3: main reasons they were so successful. There's an interesting ted

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Speaker 3: talk on YouTube by a British educationalist called Ken Robinson,

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Speaker 3: and he talks about the fact that he quotes Picasso

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Speaker 3: as saying that Picasso said all children are born artists,

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Speaker 3: all children are born creative, but they're educated out of it.

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Speaker 3: So the challenges to remain an artist despite your schooling.

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Speaker 3: I think that's important with the Beatles because they had

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Speaker 3: an untrained capacity for innovation and creativity. They weren't educated

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Speaker 3: out of it by being formally trained, even though George

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Speaker 3: Martin was formally trained so could show them a few tricks.

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Speaker 3: I think that's an important contribution to the fact that

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Speaker 3: they were you might even say naively, George Martin bleeding

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Speaker 3: experimentation anyway, so the Beatles would go up to him

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Speaker 3: and say, as John Lennon did in a song called

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Speaker 3: Tomorrow Never Knows. He says, George, I want the sound

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Speaker 3: which sounds like a thousand monks chanting on top of

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Speaker 3: a mountain, which is a bit of a bit of

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Speaker 3: an ask. So they had that kind of creative spirit,

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Speaker 3: and they weren't trained in a formal way to kind

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Speaker 3: of take that creative spirit out of them. So I

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Speaker 3: think that's important, the fact they weren't. They couldn't read music,

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Speaker 3: so they were given these different ways.

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Speaker 2: You know, Ringo came in later after the fact that

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Speaker 2: he know he did, Yes, who is the drummer before Ringo?

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Speaker 3: A chap called Pete Best. I think that George Martin

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Speaker 3: and some of the engineers and some of the other

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Speaker 3: people in the music industry didn't think that Pete Best

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Speaker 3: was good enough to be the drama with the Beatles,

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Speaker 3: and Ringo had a lot of experience playing with other bands,

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Speaker 3: and I remember McCartney saying an interview that once they'd

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Speaker 3: had Ringo behind them, it made an incredible difference that

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Speaker 3: they could hear the difference straight away.

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Speaker 2: I remember the first song that Ringo sang as a Beatle,

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Speaker 2: was it They're going to put Me in the movies?

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Speaker 2: Was added?

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, that's right as a country in Western Didy,

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Speaker 3: isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was baffled because I said, how can a drummer sing?

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Speaker 2: But he did? Okay, yeah he did.

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Speaker 3: I mean I think they picked songs which suited his voice,

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Speaker 3: didn't they.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And of course Octopus's Garden there's a funny story. I

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Speaker 3: mean Octopus's Gardens the song that Ringo wrote, and we

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Speaker 3: see him experimented with a song and to get back documentary,

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Speaker 3: it's a song he wrote when he temporarily left the

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Speaker 3: Beatles because he was a bit annoyed about the arguments

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Speaker 3: in the studio and he went off to Turkey and

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Speaker 3: while he was on holiday. I think it's Turkey. He

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Speaker 3: was on some kind of submarine tour and somebody and

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Speaker 3: somebody was talking to him about the life of an octopus,

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Speaker 3: the way that an octopus in terms of sexual selection,

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Speaker 3: presents a kind of garden of things for its mate.

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Speaker 3: And that's why Ringo wrote the song in the first place.

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Speaker 3: There's a line in it which talks about there's no

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Speaker 3: one there to tell us what to do, which seems

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Speaker 3: to be him talking about arguments back in the recording studio.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, he had he had a voice which suited

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Speaker 3: the songs that they gave Ringo to sing.

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Speaker 2: What made the Beatles change from the Beatles that they were,

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Speaker 2: these young kids from Liverpool to the Sergeant Pepper's lonely

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Speaker 2: hard Club's band type people.

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Speaker 3: I think that's evolving with the decade itself. I think

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Speaker 3: it's a lot to do with the friendly cultural competition

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Speaker 3: between the Beatles and the Stones and the Beach Boys

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Speaker 3: and all those other bands. I think that friendly competition

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Speaker 3: drove them forward. Also, they seemed to have they didn't

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Speaker 3: really want to repeat themselves. They didn't want to get

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Speaker 3: stuck in a reta. I guess also when you're taking

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Speaker 3: influences from so many different forms of music and so

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Speaker 3: many different sub genres of music, and you're looking for

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Speaker 3: new stuff that's going to make your sound rather fresh.

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Speaker 3: On an ongoing basis, I.

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Speaker 2: Think Frank Sinatra's initial reaction to the Beatles was not positive,

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Speaker 2: but later on they grew on him.

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Speaker 3: Didn't they the strike I think he said that George

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Speaker 3: Hardison's Something, which is a love song on the Abby

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Speaker 3: Road album, I think I'm writing saying that Sinatra said

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Speaker 3: that was the greatest love song ever written.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he did. He did say that.

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Speaker 3: And of course, even though Lennon McCartney are the famous

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Speaker 3: songwriting partnership, I think I'm writing saying that Here Comes

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Speaker 3: the Sun is the most downloaded beatless track on the

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Speaker 3: likes of Spotify and Apple Music and so on.

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