1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: And on this maybe third to last day, we're shooting 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: the gallop scene and tears are just streaming down his face, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: and I'd never seen him cry. He's very, very close 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: to the vest and he starts to talk and he says, 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: if only, if only the Allies had come a week 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: earlier to if only, And as he was grieving what 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: we were about to film, it dawned on him and 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: he stopped himself and he said, but wait. If Dietrich 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: had gone on to live a full life, he probably 10 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: would have wound up in the black forest somewhere with 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: his wife and children and written six or seven books, 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: and the impact of his courage would not be felt. 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: But because of this thing we're about to film, his 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: impact will never end. 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 16 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 17 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: inter city Memphis. And the last part is somehow led 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: to an oscar for the film about our team. That 20 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 2: movie is called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems 21 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people 22 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: and nice suits talking big words that nobody understands on 23 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks, 24 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 2: US just you and me deciding Hey, maybe I can help. 25 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 2: Today we bring you our second ever live interview, and 26 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: it's with the incomparable Todd Komernikki. He's the producer of Elf, 27 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: the writer of Sully, and the producer, writer and director 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: of the upcoming film with Angel Studios that's titled bon 29 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: Hoffer Pastor Spy Assassin, and it's about Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer, 30 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 2: a normal person who stood up to Hitler, rescued Jews, 31 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: joined a conspiracy to assassinate Hitler, was in prison, and 32 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 2: ultimately was hanged for his defiance. I cannot wait for 33 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: you to meet Bonhoeffer through Todd's powerful storytelling. Right after 34 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: these brief messages from our general sponsors, Todd Kermer Nicky, 35 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 2: welcome to mephis Thank you so much. 36 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 3: So. 37 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: You're You're special in a number of ways, but your 38 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 2: special in one real way. In the thirteen or fourteen 39 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: months that an Army of normal folks has been out, 40 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: we've only done two live events and the first one 41 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: was the Dancing ups Man and now you So you're special, 42 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: I mean, live event, and these folks are here for you. 43 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: When I heard about that, I was pretty troubled because 44 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: highlighting a ups man in a FedEx town sounding kind 45 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: of bold, kind of daring. 46 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: It's a really good point. We actually talked about that. 47 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: So I'm going to finish with some spectacular dancing. Don't 48 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: leave early. 49 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: So for our listeners. You were a producer with On Elf, 50 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: which I think is one of the greatest Christmas movies 51 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: of all time. I watch it every year no matter what. 52 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: My kids watch it with me. You wrote Sully, directed 53 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: by Clint Eastwood and obviously Sharon Tom Hanks. That did 54 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: beautiful as a story of the bird strike plane that 55 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: landed in the Hudson and nobody died. Phenomenal story, great screenplay. 56 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: And your latest project is, while you're here, a movie 57 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: called bon Hoffer Pastor Spy Assassin, and well, I definitely 58 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: want to get into for a few minutes, touch on 59 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,679 Speaker 2: the making of the movie and all of that, because 60 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: I think that's interesting to most people. What's really poignant 61 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 2: is Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a normal guy who served and 62 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: saved lives and changed minds and led in an unbelievably 63 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: difficult time and served to death. And the research you 64 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: had to have done on him to make this movie, 65 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: and the lessons we have to learn from this normal 66 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: guy I named Dietrich Bonhoeffer that changed people's lives in 67 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: this world. That's the story we want to hear, that 68 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: you told, and that's what we want to talk about. 69 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 2: And I can't wait to get into it. But before 70 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 2: we do, for those of you hadn't seen it. For 71 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: those listening now, here's just a quick clip the trailer 72 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 2: to bon Hopfer and a great movie. And the trailer 73 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 2: gets me jazzed up. So here we go. 74 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: Something's coming, something else talking? Look around and my friend, 75 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: how much light do you see? 76 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 4: Hello? 77 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 5: Talk that smile? Come to talk with you because of vision? 78 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 5: Something lifted scenes. 79 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: On it comes in africalor and this usuon. 80 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 5: Mm hmm. 81 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: We have devised a plot to assassinate the fure. 82 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 2: You will go to England as I spy. 83 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: Churchill seized Germany as a whole. He's afraid that upon 84 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: trace to England would be invasion. 85 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 2: Of or invasion invasion. 86 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 3: My country was invaded. 87 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: Trunk with. 88 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 3: People Bob inside Funerner. 89 00:06:53,680 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 4: Science romance somewhere with her, I'm. 90 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: To meet my destiny. 91 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 2: That sound of silent iteration with that guttural music doesn't 92 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: get you on the edge of the seat. You just 93 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 2: need to go home. Now, that is phenomenal. When I 94 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: first watched it and then your folks sent me the screener, 95 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: there's so there's so much in this film that just 96 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: I felt, which speaks to your writing, you're directing, you're casting, 97 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: and the work that you did and the research and 98 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: so briefly share with everybody because we don't get a 99 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: glimpse into what it is to make a movie Cradle 100 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: to grave and when you write it and you produce 101 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: it and you direct it, it's your baby. So give 102 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: us a glimpse into that world and how that works. 103 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 2: And then let's get into Bonhaf for himself. 104 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: Well, there's three words that are the answer to all 105 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: those questions, and that is Jesus is King. The only 106 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: way I'm able to do anything in my start with 107 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 1: a blank page life, which I've been doing since I'm 108 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: twenty two, is to get out of the way, to 109 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: pray and to work on my craft every waking moment. 110 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: And I think that's an angel calling in the story 111 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: of making a film is exactly the same every kind 112 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: of film. You give all of your heart, whether anybody 113 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: sees it or not, you have no control over results. 114 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: When we made Elf, we had a great time, but 115 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: we certainly didn't know that all these other folks we're 116 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: going to have a great time sitting in the theater 117 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: with it, and they're still twenty one years later going 118 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: to sing alongs and it brings families together. But that 119 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: wasn't the plan. And living a surrendered life is so 120 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: fundamental to being a good artist that I actually think 121 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: that for a Christian my life is so much easier 122 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: than for a person who doesn't have faith, or a 123 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: person whose life is filled with routine. Because we're asked 124 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: by Christ to not worry about tomorrow, to not worry 125 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: about what we're going to eat, and we're not to 126 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: not store up in barns. We're asked to do all 127 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: these things that our culture tells us we must do. 128 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: We must say, we must prepare, we must count the cost. 129 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: The only cost that Jesus asks us the cost is 130 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: drop everything and go follow him. And so for an 131 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: artist having to start with that blank page every day, 132 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: that's a lot easier advice to follow, because I have 133 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: nothing without him, and I know that. So it's actually 134 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: taught me tremendous compassion for a person that is faced 135 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: with the rigors of what the day to day asks. 136 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: So what I try to speak into when I'm telling 137 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: stories is to really examine each individual's rigor the things 138 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: that Bonhoeffer had to do, not in a spectacular way, 139 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: but how to talk to his family, how to play 140 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: the piano, how to learn with his best friend Frank 141 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: Fisher in Harlem, how to take in the details of 142 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: a life that form a man. Because I think if 143 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: you get those details right, that it's captivating to an 144 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: audience and you understand him when he makes the bold chance, 145 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: the bold choice to really put his life on the 146 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: line to save and he did save thousands of Jewish lives. 147 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 2: So let's pick it up with Frank for those who 148 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: are listening that may or may not know something about 149 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: the Bonhoeffer story. As he became a young man and 150 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: decided to study and seminary have become a theologian, he 151 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: came to the United States to study, and he was 152 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: really disturbed. He was unhappy with what he found in 153 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: the traditional seminary in the United States at that time, 154 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: and then he met a guy named Frank tell us 155 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: about it. 156 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. He was a star in Germany. He 157 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: wrote his doctorate at sixteen. He was targeted for academic success, 158 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: and he was from a very prominent family and the 159 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: German Church, the Lutheran Church sent him to Union Seminary 160 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: as their star pupil. And when he got there he 161 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: felt like I studied all this when I was fifteen, 162 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: Like he just he and he had a one particular 163 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: professor you see in the movie that just bored him stiff, 164 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: and he just thought, what am I doing here? And 165 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,119 Speaker 1: I'm going to be here for a couple of years. Fortunately, 166 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: he had a roommate and a friend, Frank Fisher, a 167 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: black American, who took him into the world of Harlem, 168 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: not just as you see here. 169 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: With the jazz, but also what ye are we talking? 170 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 6: We're talking nineteen thirty, nineteen thirty, So not only consider 171 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 6: nineteen thirty, just consider nineteen thirty Harlem and a German 172 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 6: dude hanging around with Frank. 173 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean music was the bridge. 174 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: Because because Dietrich Bonhoeffer was an amazing pianist, he was. 175 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: A child prodigy pianist. He easily could have been a 176 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: professional pianist, and so music was the bridge. But really 177 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: what Frank did was he just had a friend who 178 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: happened to be from Germany and he invited him into 179 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: the world of jazz. He took him to Abyssinian Baptist Church, 180 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: where Dietrich was the only white member. Dietrich taught Sunday 181 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: school and what Dietrich found at that church was something 182 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: shocking to him because German theologians at that time they 183 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: didn't go to church. Karl Bart, one of the most 184 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: famous theologies of all time, did not attend church. They 185 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: wrote about they didn't live within. And what Dietrich saw 186 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: at the Abyssinian Baptist Church was living, breathing faith and 187 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: it woke him up. And it says that his two 188 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: favorite things were Jesus and jazz, and his life was 189 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: filled with joy. And that's what he took back with 190 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: him to Germany in nineteen thirty three. One he took 191 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: about the joy of his new found faith because he 192 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: really met Jesus in Harlem. And two outside of Harlem, 193 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: he had seen that his friendship with Frank Fisher was 194 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: not convenient and in fact brought violence and fear because 195 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: of the racial issues. So Dietrich went back to Germany 196 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: with a completely different lens to see the world through. 197 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: So early on, when Hitler started othering the Jewish population, 198 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: it was so homogeneous in Germany that no one really 199 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: took notice. It was very much. It wasn't in the newspaper, 200 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: it wasn't disgusted at parties. It was just, oh, this Hitler, 201 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: he's really raising up the nation, and oh he might 202 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: be doing something. Oh but that's okay, that's he's doing great. 203 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: But Dietrich noticed right away because of the language of othering. 204 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: No matter where you go in the world, no matter 205 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: who is othering somebody else, the language is always the same. 206 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 2: I found it as I was watching the movie. Now 207 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: I'm gonna get all artsy here for a second, Okay. 208 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 2: I found it when I was watching the movie interesting 209 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: that in nineteen thirty this prodigy, the star of the 210 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: Lutheran church in Germany, is sent to the United States, 211 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: and he goes to the seminary Mecca right and is 212 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: yawning through it. And then he goes to an African 213 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 2: American church in Harlem, where he has awakened. And I 214 00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: just thought, what an interesting metaphor for Christ. That Christ 215 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: didn't surround himself with the people in the Mecca. He 216 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 2: surrounded himself with fishermen and prostitutes and the downtrodden and 217 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: the social outcast. And that is where Christ's work was done. 218 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: And ironically, in nineteen thirty, that's where Dietrich Bonhoffer got 219 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 2: his social awakening that ended up having him go to 220 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: Germany and serve yet another race of people who are 221 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: being wronged. 222 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: Your friend that we met tonight at dinner said something 223 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: really beautiful. She said, in serving people in great need, 224 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: people kept asking her did you get a chance to 225 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: teach them about Jesus? And she said, well, actually they 226 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: taught me about Jesus. 227 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: Beautiful and it is beautiful. 228 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: And also, just this notion. The way I try to 229 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: live my life, and I do this with all human 230 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: effort that I have, is to remember that the only 231 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: way to live is to give. So live to give 232 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: and give to live. If we're doing that in all 233 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: our relationships, if we're doing it, I mean, it's end 234 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: of year tax season, right. We can write a check 235 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: and we can give, and we can impact lives and 236 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: that's awesome. But we can also give every day in 237 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: front of us, to our children, to strangers. Sometimes it's 238 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: as simple as opening a door. It's just looking out 239 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: at the world. Not where is mine? But who needs something? 240 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: Anyone in this room needs something? Because that's what Jesus 241 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: would do when he sat with the woman at the well, 242 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: or he called Sakias down from the tree. He was 243 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: always looking there must be somebody that needs something. That's 244 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: not because he wanted us to be laboring or disappointed 245 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: or never have enough for ourselves. No, it was because 246 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: we are built to give, and we are only truly 247 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: happy when we give. Actually, having becomes an affliction and 248 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: life is adhesive. Look around at your house. Unless you're 249 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: a Marie Condo disciple, you have too much stuff. We 250 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: live in seventeen hundred square feet in New York City 251 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: in our apartment, my wife and two kids, and we 252 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,959 Speaker 1: don't have room for anything, and we have too much stuff. 253 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: Life just like we're rolling slowly and it's just Adhering 254 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: to us is like we're the refrigerator covered in so 255 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: many magnets you can't even open the refrigerator. So we 256 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: maybe don't need to be acquiring all the time, and 257 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: if we really want to be fulfilled, which is why 258 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: we bought that crock pot and that sweater, you know, 259 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: we're trying to scratch an itch we can't reach. We 260 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: really want to be fulfilled, kind to do less of 261 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: that and a lot more of living to give. 262 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first, 263 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 2: I hope you'll consider signing up to join the army 264 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: at Normalfolks dot us. By signing up, you'll receive weekly 265 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: email with updates about the army and short episode summaries 266 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 2: in case you happen to miss an episode, or if 267 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 2: you just prefer reading about our incredible guest. We'll be 268 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: right back. So Bonheffer comes back from Harlem with this 269 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: renewed sense of faith and fullness, but also a mental acuity, 270 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 2: a mental understanding of social justice because of what he 271 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: witnessed his members of the church he joined deal with. 272 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: And then he's faced with Hitler's Germany. I'm jumping ahead 273 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 2: a little, and I would like you to fill in 274 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 2: the blinks from your historical study perspective of his life. 275 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 2: But he spoke out against what Hitler was trying to 276 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 2: do with the church, which is basically make the church 277 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 2: his church, abandoned the Old Testament. He spoke against making 278 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 2: the fear basically Christ. He was eventually banned from writing, 279 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 2: banned from speaking, banned from Berlin. Yet while all of 280 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 2: the people that taught him, all of his all of 281 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: his peers, all of his core, even even even the 282 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 2: people that he looked to as mentors, we're changing everything 283 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: the way the state wanted it. He had the temerity, 284 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: in the face of all of that kind of take 285 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: us through that part of the story and who bon 286 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: Hoffer was and why in your estimation from writing script 287 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: and making a movie about him, what was going on 288 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 2: with him at that time. 289 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: Well, the first thing that happened is and why we 290 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: don't know this is because in America we really don't 291 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: study anything about World War Two until we got involved. 292 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: And I'm not judging that, but that's really if you 293 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: want to know the stories, everyone's like, oh d Day 294 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: and Pearl Harbor, we all everybody knows those stories intimately. 295 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: But the reason we were in that war is because 296 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: what was happening from nineteen thirty three on. So Hitler 297 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 1: comes to power, he only has thirty three percent of 298 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: the Paula Buro, and he knows that he needs more power, 299 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 1: and he goes right to the church. And now this 300 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: was a real thing. Like currently people talk about the 301 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: American Church, but I think there's American Christians, and there's 302 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: many stripes of American Christians, but there's not really a 303 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 1: monolithic American Church. Back then, in Germany, the Catholics had 304 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: half the power, the Lutherans had the other half, and 305 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: it was a real thing. So Hitler was savvy. He said, 306 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: if I fill these churches, I'm going to have these 307 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: clergy on my side. And that's what happened. And within 308 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: the first year, crucifixes were coming out and swastikas were going. 309 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 2: In above the altars. 310 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: Above the altar, Bibles were coming out. Mind camp was 311 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: going in, and by thirty five they had rewritten the 312 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: Bible and announced it boldly, very famously. It's in the 313 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: movie at the Sports Palace to this huge event where 314 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: they have rewrote the Bible, taking all traces of Jewishness 315 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: away from. 316 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 2: Jesus, including the Old Testament, the whole. 317 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: Old Testament, and then anything what they call Jewish weakness. 318 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 2: Didney add two commandments or three? 319 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: Two commandments got added honor your master and furor, and 320 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: always make sure that you keep the blood pure and holy. 321 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: And they weren't talking about Jesus. 322 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 2: Now, remember, listeners, this is the government doing it, but 323 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 2: they can't do it without the church going along with it. 324 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 2: That's the danger of the sound of silence. 325 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: Go ahead, amen to that, brother. Yeah, I mean, complicity 326 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: is just part as part of it. If you look 327 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: at anything in our own lives. And I always try 328 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: when I feel strongly that something has been done wrong, 329 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: I always look in my own heart, how am I 330 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 1: doing that? How am I complicit? And so think you 331 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: don't have to come up with it right now, but 332 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: in the quiet of your life, think, okay, I feel 333 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: very strongly about this issue. I hate that the ocean 334 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: is being polluted. Let's just say, I mean, nobody wants 335 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: the ocean to be pout. I think in general people 336 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: say I hate that the ocean is being polluted. It's 337 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: bad for the fish I'm eating. It's But the person 338 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: who says that is usually on their seventeenth plastic water 339 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: bottle of the day, right, So that's we wouldn't think 340 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: that's complicit, that's it's convenient, like, oh, he just handed 341 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 1: it to me. There's nothing I can do. I have 342 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: to I'm really thirsty. I better drink. This will be 343 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: my last plastic bottle ever. So we're doing that all 344 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: the time, So we shouldn't be shocked when we see 345 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: complicity when it's writ large lead to devastation. And that's 346 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: and that's what happened and early on, and it's bon 347 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: Huffer says in the movie that the German church has 348 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: traded full pews for full hearts, and so they were 349 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: just so excited to have people finally coming back to 350 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: these cathedrals. They missed the fact that those cathedrals had 351 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: actually been stolen from right under their feet by Adolf. 352 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 2: Hitler, and which part the clergy was the most complicit. 353 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: So he sees it happening and he against everyone else 354 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 2: Texas stand. 355 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's beautiful. His heroism is so relatable because yes, 356 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: he was a normal guy. He's a he's a normal guy. 357 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: He's very cocky. I love that he was so cocky. 358 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: He was always certain that he was right, and it 359 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: led him to some dangerous situations. But he when he 360 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: stood up against advice and threw the Nazis out of 361 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: church and said, Hitler is not the head of the church. 362 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: That was he painted a target on his chest that 363 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: never went away. For the last twelve years of his 364 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: life he was essentially on the run, but he didn't 365 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: question for a minute that that's what he was supposed 366 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: to do. Later, when things got very difficult and he 367 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: was in prison for a long time, he lost everything. 368 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: He had the humanity to say to God, did I 369 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 1: get it wrong? Am I you know? Should I have 370 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: done something different? Is this a punishment? Where's the victory? 371 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: But always every time he despaired, he pushed through with faith, 372 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: and he found even though the ending was not an 373 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: ideal Hollywood ending, he was at the ending that he 374 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: knew as a man of faith was the real beginning. 375 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: So that I say that he had a garden of 376 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: Gethsemite faith, and he loved the Sermon on the Mount, 377 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 1: and he loved the story of the garden, and I 378 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: love the story of the garden. For me, that was 379 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: really the beginning of my faith when I was in 380 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: my early twenties, that there would be a savior who 381 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: had come to do one thing, and on the eve 382 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: of getting to do that one thing, asks not to 383 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: do it. This is singular in history. Who would invent 384 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: a character a hero that tries to bail nobody. Now, 385 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: this happened, this prayer, this three prayers that Jesus did 386 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: in the garden happened thirty to fifty to sixty years 387 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:09,479 Speaker 1: before the gospel's written down. Even more of a reason 388 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: even if that you know, well we know that he 389 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: kind of tried to bail, Well, don't put that in 390 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: because nobody will, nobody will follow him. He's gonna be 391 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: He's gonna be resurrected in a couple of days. That's 392 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: we got to, you know, make sure he doesn't look 393 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: weak or something like if you're crafting something, if it's 394 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: not the truth, you would go that way. But the 395 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: truth was that Jesus was fully human and fully God, 396 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: and so on our behalf. This prayer is prayed, and 397 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: in his anguish as a human being, he feels it 398 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: deeply not my will, your will. And I want to 399 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: I want to connect this to another story that I 400 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: feel is richly bonded to it in scripture, this notion 401 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: of three. You know, Peter's denied him three times, he 402 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: wants out three times, and then he meets Peter on 403 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: the beach in the Gospel of John, and I love 404 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: this so much. Peter jumps out of the boat. He 405 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: swims to him. I've heard a ton of sermons about 406 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: Peter abandoning the other fishermen, you know, in a Martha 407 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: Merry moment, and just like doing the needful thing. But 408 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: he gets to the beach with Jesus and Jesus says 409 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: the following, Peter, do you love me? You know I 410 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: love you? Feed my sheep? Says it three times in 411 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: the Aramaic. Jesus says to Peter, Peter, do you love 412 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: me unconditionally? And Peter says, Lord, you know I love 413 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: you conditionally. Feed my sheep. Second time, Peter, do you 414 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: love me unconditionally? 415 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 2: Lord? 416 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: You know I love you conditionally. I just trade you 417 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: three times. Don't rub it in. Feed my sheep. Third time, Peter. 418 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: And this is asked of all of us, Peter, do 419 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: you love me conditionally? 420 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: Yes? 421 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: Yes, Lord, I love you conditionally. That is where Jesus 422 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: meets us, and he builds his church on the cat 423 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: who can't do it right. He builds the church on us. 424 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: And we need to be okay with the fact that 425 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: we can't get it right. That getting it wrong is 426 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: fundamental to living under grace and being so obsessed not 427 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: only with our own lives getting it right, but telling 428 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: everybody else how to get it right. Like I've been 429 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: paying attention to this at home. I've traveled so much 430 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: this year, so I've seen my kids a lot less 431 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: than usual, and really for the first time I've been away. 432 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,959 Speaker 1: And what I find when I get home is I 433 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: tend to focus on put down the phone, go to bed, 434 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: brush your teeth, do your homework. Did you get it right? 435 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: Did you get it right? Did you get it right? 436 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: And Jesus Christ has not done that to me one 437 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: time this whole year or my whole life. He said 438 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: to me, did you get it wrong? He just wants 439 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: me to admit it, and then he says, it's okay, 440 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: I got it right. 441 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 2: So you're thinking all of this when you're writing and 442 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: making the scene for Bonhoeffer in prison, that's the soul 443 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 2: of those saints. 444 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely, his desperation, his ache, his garden moment is begging 445 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: in prison to be taken home because he knows he's 446 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: going to be killed, and he says, in prison, it's 447 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: just like take me now. He doesn't want to face 448 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: who would want to face exec And he feels like 449 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: he's done the work, He's made the sacrifice. Lord, just 450 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: take me, just me now. Yeah he learned it. Yeah, yeah, exactly, 451 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: And we're and we're so transactional with with our relationships 452 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: with people, and we're you know, very transactional our relationship 453 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: with God. 454 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 2: So before he gets arrested, he's speaking out. He's he's 455 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 2: been banished from Berlin. But even after that, tell us 456 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 2: what you learned, and you're making the movie about. I mean, 457 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 2: he basically was running an underground railroad of teaching theology 458 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: to young people because he recognized I've lost all these 459 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 2: old people and they're gonna kill me if I talk 460 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 2: and write anymore. So now he literally is basically doing 461 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 2: an underground railroad, which is interesting if you think about 462 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: the Harlem connection. Sure, an underground railroad of teaching young 463 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 2: impressible theologians biblically sound theology when the Bible had been replaced. 464 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 2: Tell us about how all that went well. 465 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Confessing Church was a splinter off the German 466 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: Lutheran Church, and this group was the underground railroad. They 467 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: were a lot of them were seminary students. It was 468 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: a handful of pastors that were speaking out against Hitler. 469 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: But if you spoke out against Hitler, you got the 470 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: heave ho very quickly. So they had smuggled these students 471 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: to a place called Fink and Valda. 472 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 2: And he which is which is where it's in? 473 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: Uh in Germany? Okay, it's in Bavaria. 474 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: Well no, I actually didn't know if it was an 475 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: Austria or not. 476 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: No, no, I don't know. No, No, it's in, it's in, 477 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: it's in Germany. I was like, I knew there were 478 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: gonna be tough questions on this test. 479 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 2: I actually thought, all right, go ahead. 480 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: So and and he didn't want the job when it 481 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: was first offered to him because he didn't feel equipped. 482 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: He didn't feel like he studied enough or new enough, 483 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: and he was not much older than these young men. 484 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: But the guy, I won't give away the spoiler, but 485 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: the one who gave him the job said like, Samuel, 486 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: you were called for such a time as this. This 487 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: is your baton to carry. And it was happened to 488 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: be the Bible. And so that was a deep, beautiful 489 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: time for him. He wrote a book called Life Together 490 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: about his time at fingure involved, which I highly recommend. 491 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: If that's in the story, that's a good one to get. 492 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. It's important for us to understand 493 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 2: we've seen and you're right, our perspective of World War 494 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 2: Two really starts in nineteen forty one. The truth of 495 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 2: the story of World War Two starts at nineteen thirty 496 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 2: one and evolves to nineteen forty one. 497 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: But it really starts in nineteen eighteen with the treaty. 498 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: After World War One because Germany had no sport right. 499 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 2: But as it pertains to Bonharfer's life, that's his perspective, 500 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: with the exception of losing his brother in World War One. 501 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 2: But the question I'm trying to get to is he 502 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: he Jews were being rounded up and the common people, 503 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 2: like the folks in this audience, would recognize that there 504 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: were Jews being put on a bus, but they just 505 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 2: gone to the bakery and ignore it because it was 506 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 2: just kind of happening. But that was their problem, and 507 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 2: nobody thought to ask, where are they going, what are 508 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 2: they doing with all their stuff? What are they taking 509 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: out of their house? People just they were complicit, maybe 510 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 2: they weren't Nazis and involved in it. But they were 511 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 2: just as complicit because they wouldn't stand up. Now he did. 512 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 2: And then he started this thing where somehow he was 513 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 2: taking Jews to Switzerland and buying off the Swiss like 514 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 2: border guards to save Jewish people. What's tell us that part. 515 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: Well, you get to give away the whole movie, Manta go. 516 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 2: You gotta go see none of this chronological So you 517 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 2: have to watch the movie. 518 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: To say watch the whole movie. 519 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. 520 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: No. Ultimately, this Swiss transaction is what got him arrested. 521 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: The money he was arrested for money laundering, and then 522 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: later they tied him actually to another assassination plot, not 523 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: the one that he was involved with. Hitler just did 524 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,839 Speaker 1: this broad stroke because he wanted Hitler wanted Bonhoffer dead 525 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: from the time Bonhoeffer was twenty seven for twelve years, 526 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: and he kept being told by his inner circle, you 527 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: can't kill this guy. Everybody loves him, like everybody on 528 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: both sides. 529 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 2: He'll be a martyr. 530 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: He'll be a martyr. And so he got close, he 531 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: got almost to the end, he almost got out. I've 532 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: had an amazing conversation with John matheson my DP. I'm 533 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: sorry we had the lights up with a trailer ran, 534 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: so it's really hard to see the beauty of the movie. 535 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: The movie has been shot by John Matheson, who was 536 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 1: nominated for an Oscar. I'm next to an Oscar winner 537 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: over here, and John was nominated for an Oscar for Gladiator, 538 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: and he's just shot Gladiator too, which is actually opening 539 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: on the same day, November twenty second, So it's Matheson 540 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: versus Matheson. 541 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 2: The Gladiator verse. Bonhoffer, Yeah, that's like a sequel to 542 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 2: both of them. 543 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I Gladiators, Okay, opening weekend, pop into our movie theater. 544 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: You can see Gladiator the next weekend Thanksgiving. But it's 545 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: it's it's so divinely shot and so beautiful. So when 546 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: you get to look at the movie. But we were 547 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: standing by the gallows while the gallows were being built. 548 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: That scene was shot in Ireland on top of a hill. 549 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,479 Speaker 1: And John is a spectacular human being and he's very 550 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: British and he comes from groovy, groovy rock and roll 551 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: the Clash David Bowie. He's you know, done five hundred 552 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 1: music videos, he's done sixty films, and he's super cool, 553 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: like without any effort, he's. 554 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 2: Just that guy. He's just that guy like not like 555 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 2: fat redhead of guys like me. 556 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: It's yeah, but he's he's a beautiful human being. But 557 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: he doesn't have a faith. And his father had a faith, 558 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: and he kept talking about his dad throughout the making 559 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: of the movie. And on this maybe third to last day, 560 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: we're shooting the gallows scene and tears are just streaming 561 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: down his face and I'd never seen him cry. He's very, 562 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: very close to the vest and he starts to talk 563 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 1: and he says, if only, if only the Allies had 564 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: come a week earlier to if only, And as he 565 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: was grieving what we were about to film, it dawned 566 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: on him and he stopped himself and he said, but wait, 567 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: if Dietrich had gone on to live a full life, 568 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,280 Speaker 1: he probably won't have wound up in the black forest 569 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: somewhere with his wife and children and written six or 570 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: seven books, and the impact of his courage would not 571 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: be felt. But because of this thing we're about to film, 572 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: his impact will never end. And so that's the power 573 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:55,280 Speaker 1: of the sacrifice. And it doesn't always require our actual life. 574 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: Most of the time it doesn't, thank God. But the 575 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: power of the sac is the way we raise our 576 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: children and never telling them. Now your kids are here, 577 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: so I'm telling you, Mama, and this sweet man what 578 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: they did so that you're here, So that you have 579 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: oxygen in your lungs, You're alive, you're fed. You know, Jesus, 580 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: there's a sacrifice in what it is to be a 581 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: human being. And the more we live close to the 582 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: sacrificial Christ, the more joy and knowledge and wonder that 583 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: is available to us. So this thing that feels like 584 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: it's too expensive to do is actually the greatest gift. 585 00:38:51,360 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 2: Beautiful, A couple more questions, then we're going to open 586 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 2: it to our participants out here staring at us. One thing. 587 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 2: I don't want to spoil it too much, but go 588 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 2: to commercial but where I started crying, literally tears coming 589 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 2: down my face, and I had to watch the end 590 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 2: of it in my computer in my office, so I 591 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,919 Speaker 2: had salespeople coming by. I'm wondering why I was sitting 592 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 2: at my desk crying, And it was not because of 593 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 2: the price they were getting for the lumber that I've needed. 594 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 3: So more for. 595 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 2: Was the relationship that manifested itself with a guard, which 596 00:39:53,960 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 2: once again metaphorically is very interesting to me that Bonheffer 597 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 2: created a relationship with a non believer, a guard, a 598 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 2: Nazi German guard who right before Bonhoeffer met his death 599 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 2: changed What does that tell you about the strength of 600 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 2: faith and giving and the temerity and the courage to 601 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 2: meet that faith. 602 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: It's the aroma of Christ. This is a real guy, 603 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: not the aroma of Christ. That's interesting, well, it it's scriptural. 604 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: It's just if you're living with the Holy Spirit and 605 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 1: you're close to Jesus, you give off the aroma of Christ. 606 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: That's what people see. When people see, like when you're 607 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: really beaming with light and people say, oh my goodness, 608 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: what what is it like? The only the only answer, 609 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 1: because you know you can't see yourself, the only answer 610 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: is it's Jesus Christ. It's just, you know, we're called 611 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 1: to be a light on a hill, a lighthouse. This, 612 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: this is who we're meant to be. So what was 613 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: happening when he was in prison in Tagel in Berlin 614 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,839 Speaker 1: before he got moved closer to his death in Flausenburg, 615 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: was that he was there for a year and a 616 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: half and this relationship with this guard developed, and Nablock 617 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,839 Speaker 1: drew so close to Dietrich that he offered to help 618 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: him escape and that's all true. Nablock survived the war 619 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: and wrote all this down. 620 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 2: And when he offered Dietrich to escape. 621 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:28,240 Speaker 1: You got to see the movie. 622 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 2: Got to see the movie. It's it's phenomenal. 623 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: I can tell you the ending of Gladiator two. 624 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:44,720 Speaker 4: Very soon. 625 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 2: Somebody's going to have the courage to come up here 626 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 2: and help me ask questions at one of these mics. 627 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 2: But first, I am going to read something. I'm not 628 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 2: going to tell you where this happens, but I'm going 629 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 2: to read it. I got emotional writing it, and I'm 630 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 2: going to try not to get emotional reading it. Bonhoeffer's 631 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 2: life inspired these words. These are not his. But y'all, 632 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 2: CNN and Fox are not going to fix what's going 633 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 2: on in our communities. And I don't care which side 634 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 2: of them you like to watch. We have to understand 635 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 2: our world and the power that comes out of the 636 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 2: media is incented by an enormous amount of power and 637 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,879 Speaker 2: wealth to divide us. And it doesn't matter which side 638 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 2: of that spectrum you're on, you're victim to it. The 639 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 2: narratives that come out of DC. There are good, well 640 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 2: intentioned people in DC. See, I'm not painting with a 641 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 2: broadbrush saying they're all bad and evil. But I am 642 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 2: saying there is a system in place and scentered by 643 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 2: an enormous amount of power and wealth to divide us 644 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 2: so that we pledge ourselves to one or the other, 645 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 2: so that they maintain power and control. That is a system. 646 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 2: And the sooner we wake up to the fact that 647 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 2: that system, in those laws, if they govern us, we 648 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 2: are very equal. We're very very likely to end up 649 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 2: at some point looking for a Bonheffer. 650 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: Look for him, now, be a Bonheffer. Come on, I 651 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: know there's Bonheffers out there in the audience. I know it. 652 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 2: The lessons of the movie that this man has written 653 00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 2: and made about an extraordinary, average man's life. This phenomenal. 654 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 2: It has so many parallels to the beginning of Christianity 655 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 2: all the way till today's life. I just can't wait 656 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 2: for you folks in three short weeks to be able 657 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 2: to see it. These are the words I'm going to 658 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 2: leave you with before I open it up to other questions. 659 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 2: And again these words are not written by Bonheffer, but 660 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 2: about Bonheiffer after his death. This was written six months 661 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 2: after the war ended, which was only seven months after 662 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 2: Bonheffer's death. It appears in the movie I Will not 663 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 2: tell you where through us, meaning the vast majority of 664 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:48,760 Speaker 2: the German clergy, through us and the church, infinite wrong 665 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 2: was done. We accuse ourselves of not standing to our 666 00:44:52,960 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 2: beliefs more courageously, for not praying more faithfully, for not 667 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 2: believing more joyously, and not for loving more completely. That 668 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 2: was written in nineteen forty five about Bonhoeffer, and I 669 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 2: just wonder are we guilty of that? Today? We have 670 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 2: a lot to learn from your movie, my friend. 671 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: Oh thank you. It's listen, Jesus in Charge. And whatever 672 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,319 Speaker 1: is true and beautiful that exists in that movie, may 673 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,919 Speaker 1: it land in your heart. And anything that's not burn 674 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: away like chaff and the thing. I want to finish 675 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 1: our little section about because what you just read I 676 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: really appreciate that, and about the church, and earlier I said, 677 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 1: I don't really think there's an American church. I've been 678 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: I've seen so much fighting over first politics, now in 679 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: some ways Bonhoeffer just fighting from people that profess Jesus Christ. 680 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: They share that and then share almost nothing else. It's 681 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: like the church, what is the American church? This church that? No, no, no, 682 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: what are we called to be? We're the body of 683 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:18,880 Speaker 1: Christ and beautifully Paul in the Epistles says, can the 684 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:23,920 Speaker 1: eye say to the ear, I don't need you? Can 685 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 1: the arm say to the leg go away? We can't 686 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: be a body of noses. We can't be a body 687 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,319 Speaker 1: of only ears or elbows or knees. We need each 688 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,279 Speaker 1: other and we don't have to agree on everything. But 689 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: if we say we agree on Jesus being the savior, 690 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 1: we have to stop gathering all the noses and saying 691 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: we got to get rid of all the ears. We 692 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: have to say, what do you smell? Why are you 693 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:54,799 Speaker 1: feeling this way? 694 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:55,720 Speaker 2: Oh? Wow? 695 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: If I smell that? Are you picked up on that? 696 00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: Because you what do you hear? 697 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 2: Oh? 698 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 1: I never heard that. Oh that makes so much more sense. 699 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:08,200 Speaker 1: And then the last thing we should open is our mouth. 700 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 2: So with all of that said, that is this seeing 701 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 2: and in fox aren't going to fix us. If social 702 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,360 Speaker 2: media is not going to fix us, if the political 703 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,000 Speaker 2: system isn't going to fix this thing that ails us. 704 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 2: Maybe it's just a guy like Bonhoeffer, or hundreds of them, 705 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:34,239 Speaker 2: four thousands or a million. Maybe it is just an 706 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:39,200 Speaker 2: army of normal folks see an area need a wrong 707 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 2: in their community, a spot where their passion and their 708 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 2: discipline can engage in a moment of opportunity and change 709 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,319 Speaker 2: their peace of the world. And with millions of us 710 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 2: doing that, we don't need to worry about what comes 711 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,400 Speaker 2: out of New York and DC anymore, because we are 712 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 2: the masters of our own culture. 713 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 1: Whatever is beautiful, whatever is true, whatever is honest, whatever 714 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,439 Speaker 1: is of good, report think on these things. You're talking 715 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 1: about the culture that it's just clicks, it's just money. 716 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 1: Love of money is the root of all evil. We 717 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,000 Speaker 1: talked about at dinner right before tipping. And I'm joking, 718 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,680 Speaker 1: but this is the real thing. We are in this 719 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:30,279 Speaker 1: election cycle. And now some are celebrating and obsessed, some 720 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 1: are lamenting and obsessed, but we're still obsessed. We're not 721 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: looking at what is beautiful and true and honest and pure, 722 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,240 Speaker 1: and therefore we suffer. And guess what, when we're soaking 723 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 1: in these screens, we got less time to love each other. 724 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,680 Speaker 2: And that concludes part one of my conversation with Todd Komernikki, 725 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 2: and you guys do not want to miss part two. 726 00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,239 Speaker 2: It's now we're able to listen to guys, go to 727 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 2: the audience with a Q and A from the live interview, 728 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 2: and it's awesome. There were a ton of really great questions, 729 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 2: including about Todd's personal redemption story. During that you could 730 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 2: not hear a pin drop as he answered, together, guys, 731 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 2: we can change this country starts with you. I'll see 732 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:23,440 Speaker 2: you in Part two.