1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me as always is 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant. How you like your chair? I 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: hate this chair? Dude? Do you realize that, in like 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: the last eight podcasts we've just complained at the beginning. 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: We're probably so tired of it. Yeah, So let's let's instead, Chuck, 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: instead of complaining as it is our usual way these days, 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,319 Speaker 1: let's go back in time. Oh yes, I'm gonna take 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: us back. You're ready, okay, chuck um. This is August, 12 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: little place that we now know of as Haiti, and 13 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: what's just happened is a slave uprising. Actually, what is 14 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: the only successful slave uprising in the world. Good for them? Yeah, 15 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: that's what I say. What happened was what happened was 16 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: in earlier in August of a group of slave leaders 17 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: and maroon leaders and maroons were runaway slaves who made 18 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: it to the hills, and we're basically staging guerrilla warfare 19 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: against um plantations and white colonists. They got together and 20 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: there was a ceremony that was performed in a place 21 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: called Alligator Woods or block came in. I've been there, 22 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: have you really? Oh wow, Well we're about together now, right. 23 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: There's this voodoo ritual that took place, and all the 24 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: leaders basically pledged their support and dedication to this rebellion, 25 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: and a week later all hell brake slurs. Okay um 26 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: this thousands of slaves revolt. Uh, they or every white 27 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: person they can find. Apparently they paraded around from like 28 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: settlement to settlement with a white human baby impaled on 29 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: a steak I might draw the line there, but burned 30 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: every plantation they could find and just basically held a 31 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: slave uprising. You know. It's like you can only hold 32 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: somebody down for so long before they, you know, turn 33 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: on the human spirit wants to be free, exactly. Chuck uh. 34 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: And that's essentially what happened the the Haitian slaves rose up. 35 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: They were unsuccessful actually in but historians say this is 36 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: the point that started at all and by eighteen o 37 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: four Haitia was a free republic. Yeah. Um, But that 38 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: that meeting in the woods that started it. All, the 39 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: voodoo ceremony, that instance and other slave rebellions that were 40 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: kind of based around voodoo um kind of given the 41 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: religion a bad rap among whites since then. It's kind 42 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: of weird to think of, but our conception of voodoo 43 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: is almost entirely hollywood ized, fictionalized um and fear based 44 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: based on this um kind of collective white distant memory 45 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: um of well, this is this is what you know. 46 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: Voodoo is, it's babies impaled on steaks. What happens when 47 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: you let people practice voodoo? Right, Chuck? Actually, the um 48 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: that slave revoult the successful slave rebellion um is what 49 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: Pat Robertson was talking about famously after the Haiti earthquake 50 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: when he said, a long time ago, and people in 51 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: Haiti don't like to talk about it, but they made 52 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: a pact with the devil um to get the French out, 53 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: and they said, we'll give you our souls if uh 54 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: you'll get the itch out, and the French got out. 55 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 1: And so basically he was saying, you know, the it's 56 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: devil worship. Voodoo is devil worship, and the successful slave 57 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: rebellion is proof positive of it, and that's why the 58 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: earthquake happened in his opinion, And then Haiti. They were 59 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: probably like, who's this devil you keep talking about? We 60 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: don't believe in that, dude. This is gonna be a 61 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: lot of debunking going on today. Let's debunk dude. Let's 62 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: start talking about voodoo. Okay, let's write now. Okay, Voodoo 63 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: is a religion. A lot of people think it's just 64 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: a bunch of hocus pocus, which is more like who 65 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: do which we'll get too later. But voodoo is an 66 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: actual religion. There is a there's one God. It's very 67 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: it depends on where you are. If you're talking voodoo 68 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,799 Speaker 1: and um even generationally speaking, there's a lot of differences. Yeah, 69 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: because there's no definitive holy text. It's a normal tradition 70 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: and it's a very subjective religion too, right, it's like 71 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: a very personal um and it governs your day to 72 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: day life. And it um also has it's different, has 73 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: a different impact on every every person, right, Yes, it does. Yes. Uh, 74 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: So there's like I said, there's one supreme God, and 75 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: depending on where you are to be different name. Uh, 76 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: if you're talking Haitian voodoo, we're basically going to cover 77 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: like African and Haitian in parts, I would say won't you. Yeah, Okay, 78 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: so Haitian voodoo you're gonna call this supreme god Bandhi. 79 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: But in voodoo, you can't talk directly to the main God. 80 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: You have to go through one of these spirits called 81 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: the loa, right, And there are many loa now, all 82 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: have different functions, but it is hierarchical, it is, and 83 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: they're based on dead ancestors ancestral spirits, yeah, which it 84 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: turns out to be, and we'll get to that more 85 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: in detail. But that's a big, big part of voodoo, 86 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: is uh, the ancestry and dead people basically spirits of 87 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: the dead people. Right. And you're talking about comparing it 88 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: to say, Christianity or Judaism or something like that, it's 89 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: much it's much easier to compare um like a pagan 90 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: religion like voodoo, to a pagan religion like um Druidism, right, 91 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: than it is to compare either one to Christianity or Judaism. Um. 92 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: Although there are some similarities there are, especially in Haitian voodoo, 93 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: but in African voodoo, um, it's it's much more difficult 94 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: to compare it. And so anthropologists still kind of put 95 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: it in this um context of of ways. We can 96 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: understand like gods, but they're not gods. You can't like 97 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: to to voodoo practitioners. They're not gods. Their ancestral spirits. 98 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: The spirit world is as real as this world. So 99 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: we may hear their call them gods accidentally, but that's 100 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: that's just as close as we can come. You could 101 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: compare them to a Greek or Roman gods, right, they 102 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: have different personalities to represent different things, but it's kind 103 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: of that shared pagan worldview that different parts of the 104 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: natural experience are associated with different gods. Right, good point. Thanks. Uh. 105 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: It's basically so white Christians can understand what we're talking about. 106 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: Um so uh, African and Haitian voodoo in in both 107 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: cases you have it's really not a bunch of evil 108 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: doing and and spells cast upon one another. It's mainly 109 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: used for for good and to be a better person. 110 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: In fact, you're you're counted on as a practice or 111 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: a voodoo to be a good community member and you know, 112 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: a stand up guy or gal. Right, yeah, and I 113 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: remember we said that it was a personal and subjective religion. 114 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: Um So, when you're practicing voodoo, when you are um uh, 115 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: interacting with it's say like a voodoo priest or priestess. Right, Um, 116 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: you're seeking advice, guidance and you're living your life by that, right. Yeah, 117 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: So there's actually I guess kind of the whole um 118 00:07:54,680 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: evil aspect does exist bo bo um in afri Can tradition, 119 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: right yeah. African voodoo, Yeah, that's the dark side of 120 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: African vodoo is called bo right, and voodoo practitioners a 121 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: voodoo priest is called a hogun right yeah, an African 122 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: voodoo priest, right yeah, And an African and Haitian voodoo 123 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: priests this is called a mamba, right, yes, mamba. Um. 124 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: So the mamba and the ho gun are not charged 125 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: with um carrying out boat which is evil spells hexes 126 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: um basically magic that does harm right, right, And they 127 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: do use voodoo dolls, they do. Yeah, but um, this 128 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: is not to say and this is where it kind 129 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: of gets a little prickly like a little hinky um 130 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: where the voodoo priests and priests is may not actually 131 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: practice bow this black magic, but um, they're familiar with it, 132 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: they have a working knowledge of it. But so so 133 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: they can oppose people who practice boes You have to 134 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: understand something to fight it. That's the belief. They're right, right, sure, Okay, 135 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: So Chuck, let's talk a little more about ceremonies and 136 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: some of the characteristics and traits that make voodoo voodoo. 137 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: All right, We're going to Africa. Are we in Haiti 138 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: at this point? Let's do Africa first, Okay. I mean 139 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: this is the cradle of voodoo, right, yeah, like six 140 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: thousand years ago. That's where the word comes from. It 141 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: comes from the Fawn language, which was the kingdom of Fawn, 142 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: and that means sacred spirit or deity, right, and I 143 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: think it was like northwest northwest Africa. Northwest it's north 144 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: central west Africa, so it's west Africa. We're talking. Ghana, 145 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: Bending and Togo are like the the areas where these 146 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: ancient kingdoms of Fawn and Congo, Congo with the k 147 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: um we're located. And this is the cradle of voodoo. Yeah. 148 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: And I actually got a stat for you. Um, they 149 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: say that thirty million people in in Togo, Ghana and 150 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: was it Benin Yeah, still practice vood you today And 151 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 1: just to gauge where that falls and world religions, it's 152 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: about double the number of Jewish people in the entire world. Wow. 153 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: Is it really Yeah, well there, I mean stats very 154 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: because depending on if you're like an active practice practitioner 155 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: of Judaism or if you're just like born Jewish. But yeah, 156 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: it's about double so it ranks. It's also um an 157 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: official religion and beneath yeah, they say that of the 158 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: people of that country follow voodoo still, right, so this 159 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: is a an established religion. Um. But one of the 160 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: founding um or foundational tenants of voodoo is that you 161 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: can communicate with the spirits, and you communicate with the 162 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: spirits to find out, you know, what you should do 163 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: from them, then the almighty deity, yeah, the Supreme God 164 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: right there, the medium right um. One of the one 165 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: of the other founding tenants of voodoo is you communicate 166 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: with these people not in your head, not through prayer, 167 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: but by the the loa um actually possessing someone who 168 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: then gives commands or says, you know, what are you doing? 169 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: Why you aren't you you know, UM spending more time 170 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: with your wife, things like that, right. Yeah, we said 171 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: that It's different in African and Haitian and all over 172 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: the world and in different time periods, but that's one 173 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: of the main through lines and all voodoo is possession, spirit, intrusion, possession. Right. Um. 174 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: The person who's being possessed at the time is known 175 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: as the horse, and the whatever loa is is possessing 176 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: him or her is known as the rider. Right. Yeah, 177 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: that's in Haitian voodoo. How did I get ahead of us? No, 178 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: that's right, we can, we can kind of jump around. Okay, 179 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: Well that's really one of the big bridges. Um. That's 180 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: really the bridge between Haitian voodoo and African voodoo. Right 181 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: is that spirit possession exists. That's how you find out 182 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: what you should do in your day to day life. Right. Um. 183 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: Back in Africa on the African side. Um, some other 184 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: commonalities between the two. Because again um, or maybe not again, 185 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: but possibly the first time Haitian Haitian voodoo is African 186 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: voodoo with creolized yes, right, yeah, so let's get back 187 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: to talking about African voodoo. I did screw us up, 188 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: and I apologize, Chuck, apologize to our fans. I'm so sorry, fans, 189 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: Please forgive me. You never owe me an apology, buddy. Um. 190 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: So the answer the ancestral spirits make up the lower right. Um. 191 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: You can take any object and consecrate it, and it 192 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: becomes a ritual sacred object, right, which is where the 193 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: dolls come in, which, as you said, are not used 194 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: for um harm. Right. Well, they can be by the 195 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: if you're talking bow, but it's definitely not like you 196 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: see in the movies, right or the Brady bunch Um 197 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: during Yeah, um, the there's a lot of ceremonial dance. Um. 198 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: Spirits are in vogue through music, percussion, that kind of thing. Um. 199 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: I know that in both Haitian and African voodoo there 200 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: is a gatekeeper um. And his name in Haitian tradition 201 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: is papal Legba. Right, I love that name, yeah, Um. 202 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: And papal Legba is the gatekeeper between the spirit world 203 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: and the human world. Right. And he's invoked at the 204 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 1: beginning of every ceremony because you have to get him 205 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: to open the gate so you can start communicating at 206 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: the low and some things can be people can be possessed. Right. 207 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: And actually papal Legba is also a one of the 208 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: black men at the Crossroad, who um bears a striking 209 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: resemblance to our friend masham Oh really yeah interesting. Yeah. 210 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: The Crossroad a k a. The Christian Cross in Haitian tradition. Yet, right, 211 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: we should go ahead and talk about that. Probably if 212 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: some of this sounds familiar, if you're thinking Papa Legba 213 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: sounds sort of like St. Peter, and the crossroads sounds 214 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: sort of like the Christian cross there's a very good 215 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: reason for that. It's because, once again we go back 216 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: to our friend Christopher Columbus Hispaniola and the fact that 217 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: they brought slaves over to Hispaniola to work on the plantations. 218 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: They brought voodoo with them, and the problem there was 219 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: Columbus said, no, no, no no, no, if you're going to 220 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: be a slave over here, that you have to be 221 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: converted to Christianity. So that was the code noir. The 222 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: French actually did that one go to be baptized, forced conversion. 223 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: So what they did was, in order to keep practicing voodoo, 224 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: they incorporated and this or out. My mind was blown. 225 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know they did this. They incorporated parts of 226 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: Catholicism to kind of mask the fact that they were 227 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: practicing voodoo and it got all mixed up in what's 228 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: called syncretization. So Catholicism and voodoo working together right crazy. 229 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: So even today, um, there a lot of the loa 230 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: there well, there was a lot of ready um uh 231 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: similarities between these ancestral spirits and Catholic saints. Right. So 232 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: like St. Peter is associated with papal Legba because St. 233 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: Peter's the guy who's outside the gates of heaven. Papal 234 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: Legba is the gatekeeper to the spirit world, so they 235 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: associate him with him. Um, there is a god who 236 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: is um pretty powerful. He's a warrior protector god called 237 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: Ogu and he's associated with St. James who was a 238 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: warrior protector saint. So it's it wasn't It's not a 239 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: leap all the time, but sometimes it's a stretch. Like St. Patrick, 240 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: remember drove out the snakes from Ireland. He's associated with 241 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: snakes in the Haitian tradition. Um. But yeah, so when 242 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: you when you look at the underlying um tenants, the 243 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: really overarching narrative of being able to communicate with spirits, 244 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: invoking spirits through percussion, percussion, song, dance, I'm being possessed 245 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: and objects being able to be consecrated it and and 246 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: become sacred. Um. Then that's voodoo across the board. The 247 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: voodoo were familiar with. Um, that's Haitian voodoo, which is 248 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: kind of mixed up with Catholicism. Yeah. I said that. 249 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: They even incorporated uh, Catholic hymns and prayers. Yeah, crazy, Yeah, 250 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: Tracy Wilson, Yeah she did. Um. So, Josh, you brought 251 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: up rituals that they would perform to invoke the gods. 252 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: And one of the tenants of voodoo is the gods 253 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: will give you advice at all, but you've got to 254 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: take care of the gods the spirits. And one way 255 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: that you can do this is by animal sacrifice to 256 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: appease the god, you know, the spirit. Yeah. Now this 257 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: is um again. This is another ticklish aspect of voodoo, 258 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: isn't it. You know? I mean this is like, oh, 259 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: they sacrifice animals, They're they're evil. It's like, well, you 260 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: got the sacrifice animals part, right, right, you know, well 261 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: they used to sacrifice humans too, did they. Yeah, it's 262 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: been like at least a hundred years since any of 263 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: that's gone on in Africa. They say, huh so, Chuck, 264 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: there's actually um with the animal sacrifices. Um. There there's 265 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: actually a process, as you can imagine, there's a process 266 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: where so you're you're going to sacrifice a chicken, right, Um? 267 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: And this chicken is washed and leaves to be consecrated, 268 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: and then it's fed from this ritual dish. And if 269 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: it refuses to eat, then that means that the loa 270 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: has rejected that sacrifice, and the animal is set free. 271 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: If it eats, then it's like, okay, you're dead. Apparently 272 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: I guess they don't. But but it's not just chickens. 273 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: I think this supplies to goats, pigs, whatever sacrifice, right, um. 274 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: And so if it eats, then it's like, okay, you're dead. 275 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: If it's a goat or a pig, it's throat, it's slip. 276 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: If it's a chicken, its neck is broken, but it's quick. 277 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: It's a quick death. It's not you know, tortured or 278 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: anything like that. The blood is mixed in this um 279 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: calabash like a big chalice bowl, yeah um, with rum 280 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: and syrup and salt, and then people will either take 281 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: a sip or they'll they'll um make a cross on 282 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: their crucifix on their head in blood. Right. So that's 283 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 1: the blood sacrifice. That's where the blood sacrifice ritual stands today. 284 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: Oh really they still do it that way because Haitians 285 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: still practice voodoo like uh like right out in the open. 286 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's not some like Westerners might think it's 287 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: like some weird hidden thing, but it's not like that 288 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: at all. Uh. You also talked about UM when they 289 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: invoke or when you're possessed. There's I know, there's a 290 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: dance called the Dance of the hooded uh a gun 291 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: gun And apparently what happens is when someone is like 292 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: the spirit overtakes them and they're possessing and they're dancing around. 293 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: If you touch them, you die, that's what they say. 294 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: So you gotta like stand in the circle and witness 295 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: all this and jump part. But you know they're running 296 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: all over the place, so you gotta like, you know, 297 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: keep distance and um. They're also if while you're possessed, 298 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: you are impervious to pain, you can't be injured. Good point. 299 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: And today I was reading an article from I think 300 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: two thousand two or two thousand four UM, and this 301 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: guy was talking about witnessing a a voodoo ritual in 302 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: West Africa recently. And these guys were um were possessed 303 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: by Ugu remember the warrior protector spirit um and they 304 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: were cutting themselves with their knives, blood lighting UM and 305 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: weren't wincing or anything like that, because apparently one aspect 306 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: of it is like you can't feel pain while you're possessed. Interesting. Yeah, well, 307 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: and since you brought that up, we should probably go 308 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: ahead and talk about why Westerners view voodoo as some 309 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: sort of evil, awful thing, right, in addition to the 310 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: slave uprising, right, Yeah, exactly. One of the reasons you 311 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: just mentioned was a lot of the there's a lot 312 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: of self injury that goes on, like, yeah, and so 313 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: Westerners see that and they think those people are crazy 314 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: look at them. Well, not just that, but blood making 315 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: a real appearance, anything dealing with death, the fact that 316 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: they believe that death is like you know, not necessarily 317 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: a bad thing, and that the spirits are are still 318 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: living among us, guiding us. That's not where Westerners aren't 319 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: typically down with that either. Now, Westerners don't have a 320 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: stomach for real blood, which is why wine is used 321 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: in place of it or is a metaphor for it. 322 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: And like the Christian tradition, and death is something that 323 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: we don't like to think about or talk about in 324 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: the West either. Again, though in the voodoo tradition and 325 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: in a lot of other traditions, um death is just 326 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: a part of the natural order of things, and it's 327 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: certainly not the end. I think in the West, it's 328 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: kind of viewed even by the religious in some cases 329 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: as the end, and we don't really like to think 330 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: about that. You know. That's a good point. UM. The 331 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: other thing Tracy mentioned in here was from nineteen fifteen 332 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: to nineteen thirty five, the Marine Corps occupied Haiti and 333 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: during this period there were a lot of books and 334 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: movies all of a sudden being written about UH and 335 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: portrayed like Haitian voodoo as these you know, crazy blood 336 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: letting people, right, so those became really popular. One of 337 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: them was called White Zombie. Around the same time it 338 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: had spread UH to New Orleans and kind of who 339 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: do became popular? Right. In the nineteenth century, there were 340 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: two women named Marie La Vaux and Um. One was 341 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: they were the most powerful women in UM in voodoo 342 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: culture in the US UM and the one was the 343 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: mom and the one was the daughter. Mom retired and died, 344 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: the daughter disappeared. No one knows what happened to her UM. 345 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: But after the second one disappeared, UH, the the followers 346 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: split into factions, and one of the factions became who do, 347 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: and you do became very powerful. And who do was 348 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: a mix of bow black magic with voodoo or in 349 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: the voodoo tradition, I guess. And so now we have 350 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: who do and that is what most people think of 351 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: when you think of voodoo in the US, you think 352 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: of New Orleans. And then what we're actually thinking of 353 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: is who do not voodoo? Something else, you know, like 354 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: um chimmy chonga or something exactly. Um um. So these 355 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: misconceptions still abound. Um. There was a paper in n 356 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: four that apparently this physician who wrote it, a researcher 357 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: who wrote it still takes flak four um. But it 358 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: was titled Night of the Living Dead to colon do 359 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: necromantic zombieists transmit ht LV three slash l a v 360 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: during voodooistic rituals? But basically, do necrophiliacs who are into 361 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: zombieism and our voodoo practitioners started, are they the reason 362 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: for the spread of AIDS in Haiti? Well, actually there 363 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: is a certain element of public health to what's going 364 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: to say, that's like, that's one of the real concerns. 365 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: It's not all these Western misconceptions of like taboos. Um. 366 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: Real concerns are that there is blood letting and that 367 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: they freely bleed on one another and or sharing, you know, 368 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: the blood of an animal sacrifice, people drinking that that 369 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: that can be bad stuff. Yeah, so that's a real 370 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: health concern. Um. Another really practical concern is a lot 371 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: of and we fail to mention this the priests and 372 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: priestess is one of their main gigs is to practice 373 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: folk medicine on on the practitioners of voodoo. Right, because 374 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: again we said everyday life, like voodoo's part of your 375 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: everyday life if you were right here, And some of 376 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: these folk practices kind of fly in the face of 377 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: real medicine. So that's sort of a concern here and there. 378 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: I think we should replace the word reel with Western metal. Yeah, 379 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: you're right. Yeah, you're definitely right, because I believe in 380 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: a lot of like Eastern medicine, I might look into 381 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: voodoo might clear up my sinuses. Yeahsietic uh. And like 382 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: we said, um, death is a big, big part of it. 383 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: And just the culture of fear that it creates is 384 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: something that is a big turn off for a lot 385 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: of Well, it creates a culture of fear in the 386 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: in the West, it is, but again, there's I think 387 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: even informed, um educated people have misconceptions about voodoo because 388 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: it's been harangued so long in this country that people 389 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: in the US just really don't understand what what it 390 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: is that's going on down there, and there's so many misunderstandings. Yeah, 391 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: they see angel heart, but even beyond that, like even 392 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: if even if you don't think it's who do you're 393 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: You're like, okay, well they're turning people into zombies. We 394 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: did the how zombies work thing and it's real down there. Um, 395 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: but that's not voodoo. That's bo right, yeah, exactly. Um, 396 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: So it's kind of it makes me um sad for voodoo. 397 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: I guess a little sad for voodoo. It makes me 398 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: sad for the Mamba's. Well, it's definitely um has a 399 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: stigma about it, and until I read all about it, 400 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: I probably fell into that same trap. But then you 401 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: start realizing aside from like spiritual possession and a couple 402 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: of the other things, like you know, it's not so 403 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: different than other religions when you look at it, and 404 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: I think Buddhist actually, I think there are times when 405 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: Buddhism when there is spiritual possession going on there too Christianity. Now, yeah, 406 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: there's a good example in this article of um spirit 407 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: possession happening in the Buddhist tradition, right, Yeah, that's where 408 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: I heard it. Yeah, all right, there was um in 409 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine. The Dalai Lama was Um speaking with 410 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: an oracle that was possessed Um, and the oracle gave 411 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: him advice on how to escape the Chinese Army successfully 412 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: that spirit possession. But it's Buddhism and they don't sacrifice chickens, right, 413 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: I think that that's kind of it. There's a lot 414 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 1: of blood and death in voodoo and people are afraid 415 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: of it, right, Um. But I read it or saw 416 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: a thing on NPR today where one guy went down 417 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: and spent some time with with the voodoo um practitioners, 418 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: and I think Haiti and he said, maybe his Ira 419 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: Glass people are crazy. That's more Woody Allen than Ira Glass. Um. 420 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: But he basically like in the dark Side, even the 421 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: bow to the concept of heaven and hell and Western religion, 422 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: and he he said, quote, the whole point is to 423 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: manifest the darkness so that goodness can overwhelm it. And 424 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: it's the same in voodoo as it is in Christianity. 425 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: And you know, actually I said that Christianity they don't 426 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: believe in like possession at all. Not quite true. Oh yeah, 427 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: some some like Southern Baptist and Pentecostal believe that the 428 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: spirit can overtake you in such a way. So I 429 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: was not quite right there. But again, think about how 430 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: those people are looked at from the same people who 431 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: look at voodoo as you know, unseemly. Yeah, good point. 432 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: But what what's going on now though, is there's there's 433 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: sort of an outright war from on Voodoo by missionaries 434 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: still going there to convert them from what they say 435 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: as a cult, right or associated with the devil. Well, yeah, 436 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 1: they associated with Satan, which is ridiculous because nothing about 437 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: voodoo has anything to do with Satan. I don't even 438 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: believe it exists. Yeah, so this is Western Christians kind 439 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: of just putting all their stuff on them, lots of 440 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: hang ups. Yeah, we uh Anglo Saxon descendants really like 441 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: to hang our hang ups on other people. Right, Yeah, 442 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: let's let's stop that. Well I mentioned Angel Hart. We 443 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: should mention the movies real quick. Angel Hart, great movie, 444 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: Who do Surpent in the Rainbow? Great movie? But again 445 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: that was Wade Davis, the anthropologist, and he's done a lot. 446 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: That's who that was. Yeah, he's done well, it was 447 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: bull Bill Pullman playing him. But um, he's done a lot. 448 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: Actually to a cloud voodoo to continue these misconceptions rather 449 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: than clear them up. Really yeah, but he's made a 450 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: lot of money along the way. Good point. Uh, and 451 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: then of course Live and Let Die. We like to 452 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: talk about Bond that have some voodoo in that best 453 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 1: Bond ever Roger Moore. God, it's so true. Roger Moore 454 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: was awful. Dude, Dude, Roger Moore was great. I grew 455 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: up with Roger Moore, so I like, like, I have 456 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: a certain affinity for some of those films, some of 457 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: his earlier ones. But it got to the point where 458 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: it was just like a cartoon of himself. He was 459 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: never the butt kicker like Conner he was, or the 460 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: new guys know whatever, Dalton or who's the name of 461 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: that Greig. All right, Well, if you want to learn 462 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: more about James Bond and Voodoo, you can type James 463 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: Bond and Voodoo into the handy search bar how stuff 464 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: works dot Com. If doesn't work, which I can pretty 465 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: much guarantee it won't just type voodoo try that one. 466 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: And since I said handy search bar how stuff works 467 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: dot Com, it's time for listener mail. Josh, I'm gonna 468 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: call this ghost prisons for reels? Did you read this 469 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: one from will h Hey, guys, just thought I would 470 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: drop a line about my interaction with your recent ghost 471 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: prisons topic, which we have yet to get a lot 472 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: of flag for. We've gotten zero flak. I'm ready for 473 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: some flag to come, aren't way thought? Some way people 474 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: stopped listening a long time ago. I have met on 475 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: several occasions a man by the name of I'll go 476 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: ahead and say his name, Mom do Habib, who was 477 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: very prominent in the Australian media for being an Australian 478 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: citizen held at Gitmo or Jitmo Gitmo Gitmo alright, because Kuantanamo, 479 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: It's not Juantanamo Guantanamo. Through my conversations with him, it 480 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: was clear that he had not only been tained at Clontanamo, 481 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: but also was a subject to extraordinary rendition. He was 482 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: captured by the US in Pakistan, sent to Egypt, where 483 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: he was held for six months and tortured. The torture, however, 484 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: was ineffective because of the misadministration of drugs by U 485 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: S agents, which rendered him almost above feeling for most 486 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: of the time, so like they doped him up so 487 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: much he couldn't even feel the torture, basically almost as 488 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: if he was under the power of the voodoo spell 489 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: or under the power of morphine. After six months, he 490 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: was dumped back in the Pantis Pakistan, before getting picked 491 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: up again and taken to Gitmo. It was apparently common 492 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: policy for the US to first torture then imprisoned in 493 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: Guantanamo Bay in order to use the torture findings. However, 494 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: mainly due to the tireless campaigning of his wife, he 495 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: was released from Guantanamo and returned to OZ. However, judging 496 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: from the times I have met him, the experience will 497 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: never leave him. In regards to the tortured, I forgot 498 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: all about it, but you want to come over for 499 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: Bobby for a for a stubby. In regards to the 500 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: perception that Obama is better in turn of this stuff, 501 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: it is unfortunately not the case. Say that Gitmo has 502 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: been replaced by a Bogram airbase in Afghanistan, a prison 503 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: even further from the public eyes. Keep up the great work, guys, 504 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: hopefus finds you in good health. There is no way 505 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 1: to end that softly. It's gonna stop here and keep up. 506 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: So that comes from Will and he says peace right 507 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: on Will, Peace to you two, my friend. So, uh, 508 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: what do you want to call for? Chuck? I don't know. 509 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: It's something interesting. How about if you are a practitioner 510 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: of voodoo. That is excellent, Chuck. We want to hear 511 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: from you. Yes, please do let us know. Um, if 512 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: you're a practitioner voodoo, we would love to hear from you. 513 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: Let us know what's going on and what we got 514 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: glaringly wrong or omitted because this one could like this 515 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: one could use filling out. I think a little more. 516 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: What are they called voodoours, voodoo practitioners, voodooists, voodooists? You 517 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: know the line in placing styles? Now go do that 518 00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: voodoo that you do so well? Yes, late Harvey Corman. Yeah. Um. 519 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Twitter, s Y s 520 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: K podcast. We have a Facebook page that we like 521 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: to hang out on sometimes. It's called uh stuff you 522 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 1: should know. Website in parentheses and you can send us 523 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: that email if you are into voodoo at stuff podcast 524 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: at how Stuff Works dot com. For more on this 525 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is that how stuff works 526 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: dot Com. Want more how stuff works, check out our 527 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: blogs on the house. Stuff works dot Com home page 528 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 529 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: It's ready, are you