Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.
Speaker 1: I am Mike Spofford, joined by my trusted colleague West
Speaker 1: hod Kuwitz. We're coming to you here from our studios
Speaker 1: at lambau Field West. It's Friday, our final show of
Speaker 1: the week, and that means we talk about keys to
Speaker 1: victory for the Green Bay Packers. They will play the
Speaker 1: Washington Redskins on Sunday at lambou Field a noon Central
Speaker 1: time kickoff. I think you and I are both headed
Speaker 1: in the same direction with where we're starting this conversation,
Speaker 1: So go, it's gonna be spoiler alert, shocker, Hold onto
Speaker 1: your seats. The run game will decide the victor in
Speaker 1: this matchup, Okay, but it does go both ways, right
Speaker 1: Bill Callahan, You know when you heard Mike Petton discuss
Speaker 1: it on Thursday evening, Matt la Floor touched on it.
Speaker 1: He wants to run the football. That's the way it
Speaker 1: tried and true from the very beginning. That's his philosophy
Speaker 1: and it's the reason why he was ultimately picked as
Speaker 1: the interim head coach here. He had the experience and
Speaker 1: this is honestly what is allowed Washington to have the
Speaker 1: most success they've had all season as of late, and
Speaker 1: they have two really good backs. Now we got to
Speaker 1: see exactly what's going on with Adrian Peterson and this
Speaker 1: toe injury. Yeah, he popped up on the injury report. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't practice on Thursday, was a full participant presumably
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. So we got to see where that's at.
Speaker 1: But Darius Guice to get him back, and that was
Speaker 1: one of the questions I asked Callahan on Wednesday how
Speaker 1: important that was for this offense because this is a
Speaker 1: guy from the very beginning, as I said, going back
Speaker 1: to last year, before the knee injury, before some of
Speaker 1: the things that he's had to overcome, he was considered
Speaker 1: one of the top prospects in that draft class and
Speaker 1: a guy that Washington was really excited about to build
Speaker 1: their backfield around. There was a reason why for a
Speaker 1: number of years people weren't really sure what Adrian Peterson's
Speaker 1: role was going to be because Geiss was presumably the
Speaker 1: bell cow, the number one back. Well, now they found
Speaker 1: and fell into a spot where they were using both
Speaker 1: from last week, and I felt like that gave them
Speaker 1: their truest identity. So what does that mean for the Packers.
Speaker 1: That means you have to stop them, whether it's guys,
Speaker 1: whether it's Peterson, or a combination of both. That is
Speaker 1: where this all begins for the Packers defensive front, Kenny Clark,
Speaker 1: Dean Lowry, like Martinez, all of those guys working together
Speaker 1: in tandem. Because on paper, yeah, it's been an up
Speaker 1: and down season for the Packers against the run. They
Speaker 1: have to make a statement this game because last week,
Speaker 1: Mike I felt like, for the most part, they did
Speaker 1: just that against a really dangerous sake Kuon Barkley. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought the Packers did all right against Barkley. I mean,
Speaker 1: did they completely shut him down. No, But the way
Speaker 1: that the conditions in that game, the way the Giants
Speaker 1: certainly wanted to get that running game going, the fact
Speaker 1: that Barkley had only four point four yards per carry,
Speaker 1: didn't have any of those backbreaking type of runs. That
Speaker 1: was a pretty solid performance against a really good running back.
Speaker 1: My question for you with regard to this one now, when,
Speaker 1: as Matt Lafleur I believe he said it earlier this week,
Speaker 1: the Redskins are going to come off the bus, wanted
Speaker 1: to run the ball. There they are. They are going
Speaker 1: to try to pound the Packers with the run in
Speaker 1: this game on Sunday with guys and Peterson schematically, how
Speaker 1: much of the true three four base defense do you
Speaker 1: think we'll see and by that I mean three down lineman,
Speaker 1: two outside linebackers, you know, a full five man defensive front.
Speaker 1: How much do you think Mike Petton goes to that
Speaker 1: schematically here against this one too, punch of Washington. It
Speaker 1: depends on the first quarter goes because they do actually
Speaker 1: have a modification a variant of that base where they
Speaker 1: can use is Abraham Campbell almost at Isaiah Ibrahem Campbell
Speaker 1: as that other linebacker too. We saw it two weeks
Speaker 1: ago against San Francisco. That's how they started the game
Speaker 1: against a run heavy team, Campbell as the linebacker, but
Speaker 1: yet still a five man front, so they I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it's gonna be okay, not only how
Speaker 1: you're defending the run, but how are you matching up
Speaker 1: with Terry McLaurin. How are you being able to you know,
Speaker 1: eliminate some of the threats that are there. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a real possible city, Mike, depending on how this
Speaker 1: injury port shakes out for Washington, they could start three
Speaker 1: rookie receivers in this football game, that's a real possibility.
Speaker 1: They're down their top two tight ends due to concussions.
Speaker 1: Those perimeter weapons need to be held in check, and
Speaker 1: I think that is going to be the tried and
Speaker 1: true test of how they can defend this team because
Speaker 1: in a traditional sense, this appears like a base three
Speaker 1: four from the first quarter to the fourth. But if
Speaker 1: McLaurin is being able to hit some explosive, if the
Speaker 1: safeties aren't able to you know, contain that, well, then
Speaker 1: that's when you have to start shifting to your sub packages.
Speaker 1: So I really think that first fifteen minutes and how
Speaker 1: you stack up against it. I thought one of the
Speaker 1: real understated parts of that game against the Giants was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they weren't able to run in the first quarter, they
Speaker 1: did hold Barclay back and that's what allowed them to
Speaker 1: win some of those three and ounce early on. You
Speaker 1: need to be able to do that against Washington because,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned in a final thoughts video, we shot
Speaker 1: moments ago and one of our other mediums we just
Speaker 1: got our stocking caps taken off inside they are able
Speaker 1: to run the ball. That is the number one best friend,
Speaker 1: Dwayne Haskins right now, it's gonna be what he's gonna need. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, we've been talking about it all week long
Speaker 1: that the Packers defensively, you've got to put this game
Speaker 1: in the rookie quarterback's hands. You've got to make sure
Speaker 1: he doesn't have that best friend that he can rely upon.
Speaker 1: Now with Haskins, I'll give him credit. He's he's had
Speaker 1: four starts. He's essentially played five games because one of
Speaker 1: the games that he didn't start, he played a good
Speaker 1: chunk of it. So in essence, five games, he's taking
Speaker 1: care of the football. Okay, certainly compared to Daniel Jones
Speaker 1: and and even Kyle Allen to a certain extent, he
Speaker 1: only has, I believe it's a half dozen interceptions, only
Speaker 1: one lost fumble, So he hasn't been this turnover machine
Speaker 1: as a rookie quarterback. But in those five games, essentially
Speaker 1: five games he's played, he's been sacked twenty two times,
Speaker 1: three drop backs. So defense, defensively, that's the Packers would
Speaker 1: love to be able to get after of the rookie
Speaker 1: quarterback and make things difficult for him. But to get
Speaker 1: to that point, you can't let Peterson and guys get going.
Speaker 1: You have to shift the responsibility to the quarterback for
Speaker 1: Washington be able to move the ball, while Washington's goal
Speaker 1: is going to be the other way. They're gonna be
Speaker 1: trying to limit the responsibility on the rookie quarterback for
Speaker 1: the offensive success. Former Packers defensive line coach Mike Turkovac,
Speaker 1: and it says something to me. I remember it was
Speaker 1: in two thousand thirteen or twelve, like maybe my first
Speaker 1: year even on the beat, and it was, you know,
Speaker 1: we make so much out of man versus zone coverage
Speaker 1: and all these things that we just kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: we always rattle them off, and it's just part of
Speaker 1: the lexicon when it comes to football. One of the
Speaker 1: things very few people talk about is in the defensive front,
Speaker 1: whether or not your defensive lineman can jet rush, and
Speaker 1: what the risk and reward is of jet rushing with
Speaker 1: your defensive lineman, because if you send a guy like
Speaker 1: Kenny Clark who has that capability, that can potentially expose
Speaker 1: you other places. That's why it's so critical to stop
Speaker 1: the run here because if you can that allow is
Speaker 1: Mike Petton and Jerry Montgomery that allows them to open
Speaker 1: up the playbook a little bit, because if you look
Speaker 1: at the games where Haskins has succeeded, it's because he
Speaker 1: gets the time to scan the field. As a rookie quarterback,
Speaker 1: he needs that extra millisecond to be able to process
Speaker 1: everything that's going on. If you get pressure coming from
Speaker 1: the outside and you collapse the pocket up front, that's
Speaker 1: when the internal clock starts to speed up, and that's
Speaker 1: when guys start to make mistakes. That is what I
Speaker 1: think is critical because as much as people are gonna
Speaker 1: just say, well, it's Preston Smith versus old team and
Speaker 1: Zadarius Smith has twenty quarterback hits and those are the
Speaker 1: two one, two primary options. No, I mean, as some
Speaker 1: of the things you and I have discussed this week,
Speaker 1: and you've articulated yourself, it's a lot on Dean Lowry
Speaker 1: and Kenny Clark and that defensive line this week, how
Speaker 1: they defend, how they hold their gaps, but also how
Speaker 1: they're able to push that front. Because it's been a
Speaker 1: really difficult year for Washington, but they still have some
Speaker 1: guys there. They've made some investments to make sure that
Speaker 1: they can actually get the protection they need for Haskins.
Speaker 1: That is the number one chess piece, and I'm really
Speaker 1: intrigued to watch once the game gets started on Sunday. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: on the offensive side of the ball, the Packers would
Speaker 1: certainly like to get their running game going as well.
Speaker 1: Matt Lafleur talked about it. The Packers did not run
Speaker 1: the ball as well as they had hoped last week
Speaker 1: against the Giants. La Fleur said he actually put the
Speaker 1: offense in some bad situations as far as personnel packages
Speaker 1: and still trying to run. The Giants did have a
Speaker 1: pretty tough front against the run. You give them credit there.
Speaker 1: I know a lot. There's there's a lot of talk
Speaker 1: outside the building west about getting Aaron Jones more involved
Speaker 1: in all this kind of stuff as far as the
Speaker 1: running game specifically goes. I honestly don't care whether it's
Speaker 1: Aaron Jones or Jamal Williams, whichever guy is producing, but
Speaker 1: the Packers need to get that running game going because
Speaker 1: so much, so much of the rhythm and so much
Speaker 1: of the production that we've seen from this offense in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen has come from the play action when the
Speaker 1: running game is working. So I don't really plays last
Speaker 1: week even when the running game wasn't working. I mean
Speaker 1: early on. They had some nice runs in the first
Speaker 1: half and then the play action passes came off of it,
Speaker 1: and then in the second half it got to be
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a struggle there to run
Speaker 1: the football. So whatever it takes to run it, whichever
Speaker 1: back it is, and maybe because of the weather, Jamal
Speaker 1: Williams more of the bruiser, the power guy in the
Speaker 1: cold weather. Whatever it takes, the Packers have got to
Speaker 1: find a way to uh to run the football. You
Speaker 1: want to get that going here in December for the
Speaker 1: stretch runs. So I have to add this Mike spotted
Speaker 1: caveat to this because at the time we take this,
Speaker 1: we haven't gone to practice on Friday. Jamal Williams was
Speaker 1: listed as a as a limited participant in Thursday's practice.
Speaker 1: Now was that being mindful of his workload with the
Speaker 1: knee injury or did something happen that we don't know
Speaker 1: right now? So I want to be careful with that
Speaker 1: in case this doesn't age well. But be that as
Speaker 1: it may. He was in the locker room yesterday. You
Speaker 1: would hope and presume everything's okay. But the original points
Speaker 1: stands is firm and true. It is Aaron Jones and
Speaker 1: Jamal Williams in tandem. How you use those two guys
Speaker 1: and how they're able to be effective. What I'm looking
Speaker 1: for in this game particularly is they're going up against
Speaker 1: the ranked run defense that has been really up and
Speaker 1: down from the Moss here. Now they do have Ryan
Speaker 1: Carrigan back, they have some of those guys that are there,
Speaker 1: they're stalwarts up front, so that certainly would change things.
Speaker 1: But it's just so it's so incredible how much different
Speaker 1: this offense looks when Aaron Jones is going off, when
Speaker 1: he is making the big place and the one thing
Speaker 1: we still haven't really seen yet in week fourteen is
Speaker 1: that's sixty yard breakthrough run. I mean, he has that
Speaker 1: capability on every play and at this point he still
Speaker 1: as long as carries only twenty eight yards. That could
Speaker 1: happen this Sunday, It could happen next week against Chicago.
Speaker 1: Whenever Aaron Jones goes off, everything else follows suits. So
Speaker 1: I just think you don't want to It's it's so
Speaker 1: easy just to say, well, why doesn't he just carry
Speaker 1: the ball twenty times? Well, you you can't just keep
Speaker 1: running against a wall and going three and out, and
Speaker 1: you know that's your offense, and that's what you're hanging
Speaker 1: your hat, and you have to be more multiple and
Speaker 1: diverse than that. But at the same time, what he
Speaker 1: did well in the Giants game is what you want
Speaker 1: to see them try to continue to do, which is
Speaker 1: those six and seven yard carries that stretch and and
Speaker 1: get you in those favorable second downs and favorable third downs.
Speaker 1: Because Aaron Jones and Jimal Williams are both talented enough
Speaker 1: that they're going to occasionally break a big run, but
Speaker 1: it's not being in second and eight and second and
Speaker 1: nine that really is what puts you in a hole. Offensively, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and certainly getting into those manageable third downs is where
Speaker 1: Matt Lafleur, it's where Aaron Rodgers, that's where they want
Speaker 1: to be. And I'll be writing about this in my
Speaker 1: one Last Look column for Saturday. As far as okay,
Speaker 1: the Packers have four regular season games here too to
Speaker 1: make their last strides of improvement in all three phases.
Speaker 1: I think we know. On defense, it's about limiting the
Speaker 1: big plays on special teams. It's about finding a return game.
Speaker 1: On offense, it's about getting more efficient on third down.
Speaker 1: Both Aaron Rodgers and Matt Lafleur brought that up when
Speaker 1: I asked the specific question, what is that, what is
Speaker 1: the focus for improvement over the final four regular season games?
Speaker 1: It's third out and you look at this game West,
Speaker 1: the Washington Redskins are thirtieth in the league and third
Speaker 1: down defense. Now, last week against Carolina, after they fell
Speaker 1: behind fourteen to nothing, they stopped ten consecutive third downs.
Speaker 1: There was a stretch there it was actually eleven third
Speaker 1: downs where Carolina's only conversion was via a penalty. Now
Speaker 1: they got Carolina in a ton of third and longs.
Speaker 1: You look through the play by play in that game,
Speaker 1: it was third and sixteen, there was third and twenty three,
Speaker 1: there was third and eighteen. I mean, Carolina was in
Speaker 1: these ridiculous situations and Washington's defense got on a roll.
Speaker 1: They kept stopping them on those third downs. But still,
Speaker 1: this is a defense that is thirtieth in the league
Speaker 1: on the season in third down conversion percentage. And that's
Speaker 1: something the Packers have to take advantage of and start
Speaker 1: to crank that up, start to turn that back the
Speaker 1: other way. Att, Yeah, and I do have a lot
Speaker 1: of respect for what has happened with Washington. How Callahan
Speaker 1: has pulled this thing back together because this very easily
Speaker 1: could have been a two and fourteen one and fifteen
Speaker 1: type team the way the direction season went. Now that
Speaker 1: being said, your record isn't always what you say you are.
Speaker 1: The two wins that they have are over arguably the
Speaker 1: two most struggling, inconsistent teams right now in the league
Speaker 1: in Detroit and Carolina. They're in the conversation at least
Speaker 1: a team that are going backwards right now. Certainly so
Speaker 1: in that regard, you take it with a grain of salt.
Speaker 1: But when that team steps on the field on Sunday,
Speaker 1: they're not going to care about who they've beaten or
Speaker 1: what their record is. They care about the fact that
Speaker 1: they've won two games in a row. They're going to
Speaker 1: have some wind in their sales, and they want to
Speaker 1: suddenly pull themselves back into this NFC East race. That
Speaker 1: it really looks like eight wins could win this thing,
Speaker 1: maybe seven. So that nothing you can't you can't say
Speaker 1: anything's out the door, You can't say anythings out the window.
Speaker 1: It goes back to the exactly what I was saying
Speaker 1: in this very seat at almost the exact moment a
Speaker 1: week ago. Giants struggling. The Giants had the record they had.
Speaker 1: The Green Bay Packers have nine wins for a reason,
Speaker 1: they need to go out in lambeau Field on Sunday
Speaker 1: at home in front of their home crowd. Improve it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's time to take care of business certainly. Well, you
Speaker 1: mentioned the NFC East race. We saw a Thursday night game.
Speaker 1: The Dallas Cowboys went into Soldier Field and quite frankly,
Speaker 1: West they stunk it up and the Bears took advantage.
Speaker 1: The Bears got Mitchell Troubinsky running with the ball again,
Speaker 1: both scrambling out of the pocket, read option runs, all
Speaker 1: kinds of things. Suddenly, the running Mitch Trubisky that I
Speaker 1: thought was a big part of the Bears going twelve
Speaker 1: and four last year, he's back that that's what they're doing,
Speaker 1: and it got them a big win over the Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys thirty one to twenty four. And the game was
Speaker 1: not that close, quite frankly, not not not even close
Speaker 1: to being that close. And the Chicago Bears are seven
Speaker 1: and six. They're still hanging in this thing in the
Speaker 1: NFC to try to make a push for the playoffs.
Speaker 1: The Dallas Cowboys still lead being the NFC East at
Speaker 1: the moment, but at six and seven, with Philadelphia trying
Speaker 1: to right the ship, and quite frankly, the Washington Redskins
Speaker 1: looking now at an opportunity that hey, we're three and nine,
Speaker 1: but if we run the table at seven and nine,
Speaker 1: it might actually be enough to win the division. Washington
Speaker 1: is not completely out of this yet. So the one
Speaker 1: of the things I really hated about the narrative this game,
Speaker 1: and I watched basically all of it. The first thing,
Speaker 1: on Dallas's side, They're gonna put a lot of this
Speaker 1: on Mayher, the kicker, Brett Mayhor. They're gonna put a
Speaker 1: lot of it on Jason Garrett. That is as bad
Speaker 1: as I've seen a team defend the read option in
Speaker 1: the last five years. I mean, it was there was
Speaker 1: no commitment to the ball carry at all. It was
Speaker 1: selling out for the running back. It was just making
Speaker 1: the wrong decisions at the wrong times, and they picked
Speaker 1: him apart. The Bears were able to do at will
Speaker 1: what they wanted to do. They had the explosive chunk
Speaker 1: places and they just had the momentum. I mean, defensively,
Speaker 1: they made the plays when they need to, They got
Speaker 1: the pressure when they needed to yeah, other than Troubinsky
Speaker 1: throwing that interception at the goal line like on the
Speaker 1: first possession. Other than that, it was like Dallas couldn't
Speaker 1: stop him all the all night long. So and from
Speaker 1: the Bears perspective, the one thing that has been kind
Speaker 1: of maddening for me, and I think you can only
Speaker 1: really have this perspective if you're on the outside looking in,
Speaker 1: because I think people in Chicago are really quick to
Speaker 1: jump on Trubisky, whether it's media or fans. I've tried
Speaker 1: to be right down the middle with this guy from
Speaker 1: the very beginning. I didn't buy into the hype at
Speaker 1: the bending of the year that this guy is going
Speaker 1: to be an m v P candidate and all that.
Speaker 1: But I also never really got to the point where
Speaker 1: it was like, no, you gotta move on, you gotta
Speaker 1: find a new quarterback, which is what the narrative kind
Speaker 1: of was. Mitchell Trubisky is a really talented guy, and
Speaker 1: when you call the game to accentuate his strengths, like Mattnege,
Speaker 1: to his credit, did on on Thursday Night, you see
Speaker 1: what he can do to a defense. Now Dallas is
Speaker 1: struggling on defense. They are not the defense I thought
Speaker 1: they were when they played the Packers earlier this season,
Speaker 1: but you have to play the team that's in front
Speaker 1: of you. So whether it was you know, Montgomery being
Speaker 1: able to you know, get some yards and actually build
Speaker 1: some momentum out of the backfield, just what Trubisky was
Speaker 1: able to do with the ball in his hands and
Speaker 1: spreading it around. They made the plays they need to make,
Speaker 1: and when they got the turnovers and takeaways, they executed
Speaker 1: on them. Yeah, well elsewhere here in Week fourteen, we
Speaker 1: won't spend too much time talking about the Lions traveling
Speaker 1: to Minnesota because quite frankly, I'll be shocked if Detroit
Speaker 1: in the situation there and and with Minnesota coming off
Speaker 1: of a difficult loss, but but certainly a performance that
Speaker 1: was nothing to hang their head about in a tough
Speaker 1: road environment in Seattle. I think Minnesota wins that the
Speaker 1: Packers are going to need to win to stay a
Speaker 1: game ahead of the Vikings. But two big games in
Speaker 1: the NFC that we definitely need to talk about. What's
Speaker 1: a pair of ten and two teams. The San Francisco
Speaker 1: forty Niners. We'll be traveling to New Orleans to take
Speaker 1: on the Saints, and then in Sunday Night football. The
Speaker 1: Seattle Seahawks, coming off of that big home Monday night
Speaker 1: win over Minnesota, they will go to Los Angeles to
Speaker 1: play a Rams team that seems to have found a
Speaker 1: little bit of new life. The Rams are at seven
Speaker 1: and five, and they were trying to stay in this
Speaker 1: NFC playoff mix as well. Yeah, they're trying to stay
Speaker 1: in the orbit of this whole thing. And the thing
Speaker 1: that differs from where the Rams are where the Bears are.
Speaker 1: The Bears have a really they have a grind coming
Speaker 1: up here, including Green Bay. Yeah, they are sitting at
Speaker 1: the Bears. The Bears get the extra rest now, the
Speaker 1: mini buy with the Thursday night game, but then they
Speaker 1: have Green Bay Kansas City in Minnesota to finish the season,
Speaker 1: and the Bears are looking at needing to run that
Speaker 1: table to get to ten and six and then let
Speaker 1: the Chips fall and see if they're in the mix. Yeah,
Speaker 1: whereas you look at the Rams right now, they have
Speaker 1: Dallas coming up. They do have to face San Francisco
Speaker 1: at San Francisco and then they actually close the season
Speaker 1: at home against Arizona. So there's still very much in
Speaker 1: the thick of this thing. If they can get on
Speaker 1: a run. You'd imagine they're gonna have to beat Seattle
Speaker 1: or and or San Francisco probably and uh to really
Speaker 1: make a run at this thing, but they're still in
Speaker 1: it as well. A great matchup. It'll be interesting to
Speaker 1: see exactly how Seattle responds. Uh. Just an incredible game
Speaker 1: that they were a part of too. To be able
Speaker 1: to pull that out and everything that went into it. Uh,
Speaker 1: you saw, I thought the resiliency from Russell Wilson bounced
Speaker 1: back from smart early adversity and now he's gonna be
Speaker 1: taken on a RAMS defense that's look pretty good as
Speaker 1: of late. The main event, and we've been pointing towards
Speaker 1: this for months has been San Francisco versus New Orleans
Speaker 1: because these are the two teams I think since the
Speaker 1: very beginning of the season, once they started to realize
Speaker 1: when San Francisco got on this undefeated run, they're legitimate
Speaker 1: their contenders and they can win the way that they
Speaker 1: play and New Orleans is just a different type of bird.
Speaker 1: I mean, the way that they come together and we're
Speaker 1: able to get through Drew Brees injury and get Breeze
Speaker 1: back on the field and he hasn't been perfect, but
Speaker 1: he's played well and just keep the cylinders running the
Speaker 1: whole time. That's a huge testament to Sean Payton. And
Speaker 1: I'm really interested to see how this week plays out
Speaker 1: because every single game in some shape or form has
Speaker 1: implications for Green Bay. Who wins, how they win, and
Speaker 1: you know where everything falls after that. If you're a
Speaker 1: Packer fan, you're cheering for the Rams. Is that right?
Speaker 1: Or how do you see that? Yeah? I think as
Speaker 1: as a Packer fan, I think you're child that you
Speaker 1: w note you're hoping that. I think because because the
Speaker 1: potential for a first round by is still there. I
Speaker 1: think you're cheering for the Rams to beat the Seahawks.
Speaker 1: And and and I'll have this by the way, in
Speaker 1: my Path to the Playoffs, it is returning two Packers
Speaker 1: dot Com Path the Playoffs will be posted later in
Speaker 1: the day on Friday, so check that out over the weekend.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think you want the Rams to beat
Speaker 1: the Seahawks, and I think you want the forty Niners
Speaker 1: to beat the Saints, because when you look at it
Speaker 1: from the from the big picture, if the Packers are
Speaker 1: going for a potential first round by one of those
Speaker 1: top two seeds the Seahawks and the forty Niners. Only
Speaker 1: one of them can get one of those spots because
Speaker 1: they're in the same division. Whoever doesn't win that division
Speaker 1: is going to be a wild card. So the Saints,
Speaker 1: who have already clinched the NFC South, there a division champ.
Speaker 1: They are fighting for one of those top two seeds.
Speaker 1: That's really the team. If you just say, okay, between
Speaker 1: the forty Niners and the Seahawks, whoever wins the West
Speaker 1: is going to get one of the buys. Then if
Speaker 1: you're the Packers, you're like, okay, Well, if the Packers
Speaker 1: can overtake the Saints, then you would get the second one.
Speaker 1: So I think you want New Orleans to lose. But
Speaker 1: regardless one of those teams, the Saints of the forty
Speaker 1: nine Ers, barring and overtime tie, will be ten and three.
Speaker 1: And if the Packers beat Washington, the Packers are ten
Speaker 1: and three, and then you're looking at a little bit
Speaker 1: different picture here the last three weeks. I'm glad you
Speaker 1: do path to the playoffs. I don't think my i
Speaker 1: Q level or my a c T scores high enough
Speaker 1: to well you can you can read it and get
Speaker 1: all caught up, and then we can talk about Sunday.
Speaker 1: We can talk about it Sunday morning when we reconvene
Speaker 1: in the press box. But before we go here west,
Speaker 1: there is one other thing we'll go a little bit
Speaker 1: over time because a couple of weeks ago and it's
Speaker 1: a subject we just haven't gotten to yet with everything
Speaker 1: else going on. Leroy Butler, former Packers safety, for the
Speaker 1: third year in a row, has reached the semifinalist stage
Speaker 1: in his bid to gain induction into the Pro Football
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio. Now, the previous two
Speaker 1: years he has not gotten from the semifinalists to the
Speaker 1: finalist stage. Semifinalist stage is the top twenty five candidates
Speaker 1: for induction. Then when it goes to the finalist stage,
Speaker 1: I forget and I was a ten or fifteen. So
Speaker 1: then it'll be whittled from twenty five down to fifteen
Speaker 1: before the Hall of Fame Selection Committee meets on Super
Speaker 1: Bowl weekend and then they whittle it down from fifteen
Speaker 1: to a maximum of five modern day inductees from this group. UM,
Speaker 1: I know you have some thoughts here on Mr Butler
Speaker 1: and his candidacy. I know you and I are very
Speaker 1: much on the same page with this, but I'll give
Speaker 1: you the floor for the moment. Well, the journalistic oath here,
Speaker 1: I have to admit, like there is an internal bias
Speaker 1: with me. I've known Leroy Butler since two thousand thirteen.
Speaker 1: I did a radio show with him for four years,
Speaker 1: So there is a personal investment here. I want to
Speaker 1: disclose that. So it isn't just that I'm just spouting
Speaker 1: off on all this. But that being said, when I
Speaker 1: was at the Green Bay Press Gazette, I remember the conversation.
Speaker 1: It started to get you get fired up a little bit,
Speaker 1: especially as kind of the the relation and um, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of the field towards safety started to turn, started
Speaker 1: to get a little bit more respects what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say. And there was a time that I kind
Speaker 1: of in my mind was able to understand maybe why
Speaker 1: Leroy Butler had been overlooked. He got hurt, his career
Speaker 1: was over after two thousand one. Maybe he just didn't
Speaker 1: play quite long enough. Yeah, the career did end sooner
Speaker 1: than expected. And then about two years ago I said,
Speaker 1: that's absolute garbage. I don't know what I was thinking
Speaker 1: with that, because then you start to see some of
Speaker 1: these guys. Ten years in the league is a long
Speaker 1: time now. Was Leroy Butler starting safety from day one? No,
Speaker 1: he was a cornerback. Took two years from to go
Speaker 1: and play safety. Once he did, he became an All Pro.
Speaker 1: I believe the only four time All Pro safety that
Speaker 1: isn't in the Hall of Fame if I remember that correctly. Yes,
Speaker 1: all any, any and all safeties who have been first
Speaker 1: team All Pro four or more times, every single one
Speaker 1: of them is in Canton except for Butler. And I
Speaker 1: tweeted this a couple of days ago. And you can
Speaker 1: go back and write any number of stories I've written
Speaker 1: on le Roy over the last time. I should I
Speaker 1: should clarify who are eligible because Troy Polamalu is you know, um,
Speaker 1: he's another one of those guys on the list, but
Speaker 1: he just hasn't gotten far along yet. He'll be in there.
Speaker 1: So this is the thing I struggle with with this
Speaker 1: whole thing with Leroy is that. And I tweeted a
Speaker 1: couple of nights ago. If you watched Packers, and I
Speaker 1: know you did, and you tell me that that team
Speaker 1: had to count them one too. Reggie White bred five
Speaker 1: to Pro Football Hall of Famers on that team, and
Speaker 1: that's the reason they won the Super Bowl. That's the
Speaker 1: reason they turned around this whole narrative with the Green
Speaker 1: Bay Packers and they went to back to back. Everything
Speaker 1: relied on them. You are a fool le Roy Butler
Speaker 1: in the way that Friz Shermer used him. I keep
Speaker 1: saying this over and over again, and it's getting kind
Speaker 1: of old. But he was hybrid before hybrid was cool.
Speaker 1: He did not play strong safety like strong safeties played
Speaker 1: strong safeties at that time. He played something more. It's
Speaker 1: the reason he had as many sacks as he did.
Speaker 1: I am not asking the Pro Football Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: voters to put him in the Hall of Fame this year.
Speaker 1: I'm not asking that because I have a lot of
Speaker 1: good friends on that panel that I respect mightily. I
Speaker 1: am asking you to get him in the final fifteen
Speaker 1: because the fact that Larroy Butler in two thousand nineteen
Speaker 1: has not had Pete Doherty or Cliff Crystal standing up
Speaker 1: there presenting his case to that panel is embarrassing. It
Speaker 1: is embarrassing. All due respect to Steve Atwater, all due
Speaker 1: respect to John Lynch, I hope they both get in
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame at some point. The fact that
Speaker 1: Larroy Butler has not been up there and is considered
Speaker 1: a tear below those two guys is unjust. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: agree with you, and we were discussing this before we
Speaker 1: turn the cameras on. I have nothing against John Lynch
Speaker 1: or Steve Atwater, but when a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: when Butler was announced as a semifinalist for the third
Speaker 1: year in a row, I answered a question and insider
Speaker 1: in box with regards to Okay, what are his chances.
Speaker 1: We've seen John Lynch and Steve Atwater both make the
Speaker 1: finalist stage over the last couple of years, Butler has
Speaker 1: gotten knocked out at the semifinalist stage. I look at
Speaker 1: I look at Atwater specifically if you're going to make
Speaker 1: a side by side comparison, and the thing that I
Speaker 1: think is really unfortunate because Butler's a four time first
Speaker 1: Team All Pro. At Water's got a couple of All
Speaker 1: Pro nods, has a bunch more Pro Bowls, Yeah, he
Speaker 1: has I think eight Pro Bowls. Butler doesn't have that
Speaker 1: many Pro Bowls. You look at the statistics, interceptions and sacks,
Speaker 1: Butler's got him beat um So from a statistical standpoint,
Speaker 1: there's a really strong case for Butler, and I have
Speaker 1: nothing against Atwater, but what I think is unfortunate here
Speaker 1: is it feels like the reason at Water, who played
Speaker 1: a long time for the Denver Broncos, has been a
Speaker 1: finalist and Leroy Butler has not is because of the
Speaker 1: result of super Bowl thirty two. Because of that result,
Speaker 1: Steve Atwater is a two time Super Bowl champion and
Speaker 1: Leroy Butler has one super Bowl ring. And I personally
Speaker 1: think that if that Super Bowl thirty two result had
Speaker 1: been reversed, that where we'd be right now is Butler
Speaker 1: would be the finalist and at Water would be the
Speaker 1: guy on the outside looking in. And I don't think
Speaker 1: that's right. That that's the part to me that is
Speaker 1: unjust because, as I said, nothing against Lynch or at Water,
Speaker 1: and Lynch I think is a little bit different case.
Speaker 1: But looking at looking at Atwater and Butler, why why
Speaker 1: does the number of Super Bowl rings matter? It was
Speaker 1: one game. It was one game in San Diego in
Speaker 1: January that it feels like it's that's what's blocking Leroy
Speaker 1: Butler from getting further in this process. And I think
Speaker 1: that's wrong. And I have to present this too, at
Speaker 1: least on the record, there is one coach from that
Speaker 1: game that talked about needing to take away the other
Speaker 1: team's safety. That coach was not Mike Holmgren. That was
Speaker 1: Mike Shannon talking about trying to take away Leroy Butler.
Speaker 1: He is the guy that we need to have a
Speaker 1: hat on. He's the guy we need to be able
Speaker 1: to eliminate. The reason there's a lot of all I'm
Speaker 1: asking for is that if you look at the Pro
Speaker 1: Football Hall of Fame process, and it is not an
Speaker 1: easy process. I can continually admit that. But the way
Speaker 1: this thing has gone in recent years is they create
Speaker 1: it seems like they've created this line. Okay, at Waters
Speaker 1: a two time finals, he moves up a little bit.
Speaker 1: Unless you're a unanimous first bout Hall of Famer, you
Speaker 1: know it. Lynch has been in the conversation, move up
Speaker 1: a little bit. I just don't want to be in
Speaker 1: a position where Atwater and Lynch get in his modern
Speaker 1: day nominees and they push Leroy Butler off so that
Speaker 1: when he's sixty years old or whatever, he can go in.
Speaker 1: He has to go the Roy Butler is at peace
Speaker 1: with the fact he's going to be in the Pro
Speaker 1: Football Hall of Fame. He's the calmest cookie in the
Speaker 1: room as it. Yeah, he absolutely believes it's going to happen,
Speaker 1: and he doesn't. He doesn't sweat it, which I give
Speaker 1: him credit for that because because yeah, you and I
Speaker 1: are the ones who are sweating it right now. But
Speaker 1: for little old Green Bay, Wisconsin, if you've lived here,
Speaker 1: if you've been a part of this thing, you understand
Speaker 1: what it was like for twenty nine years to be
Speaker 1: in just complete irrelevancy. But Wright Butler was a big
Speaker 1: part of this resurgence. People. Brett Favre was fun, He
Speaker 1: was the trend setter. He he did everything as the
Speaker 1: face of this franchise to make the Packers cool again.
Speaker 1: Reggie White believed he came in and changed the culture
Speaker 1: that defense. Roy Butler is on that Mount rushmore though,
Speaker 1: at least as it relates to the Packers and the
Speaker 1: success they had in the nineties. Yeah, I certainly agree
Speaker 1: with you, and we have run over time. But we're
Speaker 1: very much the rap on this edition. In this week
Speaker 1: of Packers un Scripted, be sure to follow all of
Speaker 1: our coverage of the team and of Sunday's game from
Speaker 1: lambeau Field against Washington on Packers dot com. Subscribed to us,
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Speaker 1: out the Packers YouTube channel for all of your great
Speaker 1: video content for West I'm Mike. Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.