1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: I am Mike Spofford, joined by my trusted colleague West 3 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: hod Kuwitz. We're coming to you here from our studios 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: at lambau Field West. It's Friday, our final show of 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 1: the week, and that means we talk about keys to 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: victory for the Green Bay Packers. They will play the 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: Washington Redskins on Sunday at lambou Field a noon Central 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: time kickoff. I think you and I are both headed 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: in the same direction with where we're starting this conversation, 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: So go, it's gonna be spoiler alert, shocker, Hold onto 11 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: your seats. The run game will decide the victor in 12 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: this matchup, Okay, but it does go both ways, right 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: Bill Callahan, You know when you heard Mike Petton discuss 14 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: it on Thursday evening, Matt la Floor touched on it. 15 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: He wants to run the football. That's the way it 16 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: tried and true from the very beginning. That's his philosophy 17 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: and it's the reason why he was ultimately picked as 18 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 1: the interim head coach here. He had the experience and 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: this is honestly what is allowed Washington to have the 20 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: most success they've had all season as of late, and 21 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: they have two really good backs. Now we got to 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: see exactly what's going on with Adrian Peterson and this 23 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: toe injury. Yeah, he popped up on the injury report. Yeah, 24 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: he didn't practice on Thursday, was a full participant presumably 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: on Wednesday. So we got to see where that's at. 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: But Darius Guice to get him back, and that was 27 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: one of the questions I asked Callahan on Wednesday how 28 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: important that was for this offense because this is a 29 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: guy from the very beginning, as I said, going back 30 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: to last year, before the knee injury, before some of 31 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: the things that he's had to overcome, he was considered 32 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: one of the top prospects in that draft class and 33 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: a guy that Washington was really excited about to build 34 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: their backfield around. There was a reason why for a 35 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: number of years people weren't really sure what Adrian Peterson's 36 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: role was going to be because Geiss was presumably the 37 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: bell cow, the number one back. Well, now they found 38 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: and fell into a spot where they were using both 39 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: from last week, and I felt like that gave them 40 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: their truest identity. So what does that mean for the Packers. 41 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: That means you have to stop them, whether it's guys, 42 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: whether it's Peterson, or a combination of both. That is 43 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: where this all begins for the Packers defensive front, Kenny Clark, 44 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: Dean Lowry, like Martinez, all of those guys working together 45 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: in tandem. Because on paper, yeah, it's been an up 46 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: and down season for the Packers against the run. They 47 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: have to make a statement this game because last week, 48 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: Mike I felt like, for the most part, they did 49 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: just that against a really dangerous sake Kuon Barkley. Yeah, 50 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: I thought the Packers did all right against Barkley. I mean, 51 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: did they completely shut him down. No, But the way 52 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: that the conditions in that game, the way the Giants 53 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: certainly wanted to get that running game going, the fact 54 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: that Barkley had only four point four yards per carry, 55 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: didn't have any of those backbreaking type of runs. That 56 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: was a pretty solid performance against a really good running back. 57 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: My question for you with regard to this one now, when, 58 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: as Matt Lafleur I believe he said it earlier this week, 59 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: the Redskins are going to come off the bus, wanted 60 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: to run the ball. There they are. They are going 61 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: to try to pound the Packers with the run in 62 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,839 Speaker 1: this game on Sunday with guys and Peterson schematically, how 63 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: much of the true three four base defense do you 64 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: think we'll see and by that I mean three down lineman, 65 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: two outside linebackers, you know, a full five man defensive front. 66 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: How much do you think Mike Petton goes to that 67 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: schematically here against this one too, punch of Washington. It 68 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: depends on the first quarter goes because they do actually 69 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: have a modification a variant of that base where they 70 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: can use is Abraham Campbell almost at Isaiah Ibrahem Campbell 71 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: as that other linebacker too. We saw it two weeks 72 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: ago against San Francisco. That's how they started the game 73 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: against a run heavy team, Campbell as the linebacker, but 74 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: yet still a five man front, so they I think 75 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: a lot of it's gonna be okay, not only how 76 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: you're defending the run, but how are you matching up 77 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: with Terry McLaurin. How are you being able to you know, 78 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: eliminate some of the threats that are there. I mean, 79 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: there's a real possible city, Mike, depending on how this 80 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: injury port shakes out for Washington, they could start three 81 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: rookie receivers in this football game, that's a real possibility. 82 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: They're down their top two tight ends due to concussions. 83 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: Those perimeter weapons need to be held in check, and 84 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: I think that is going to be the tried and 85 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: true test of how they can defend this team because 86 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: in a traditional sense, this appears like a base three 87 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: four from the first quarter to the fourth. But if 88 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: McLaurin is being able to hit some explosive, if the 89 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: safeties aren't able to you know, contain that, well, then 90 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: that's when you have to start shifting to your sub packages. 91 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: So I really think that first fifteen minutes and how 92 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: you stack up against it. I thought one of the 93 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: real understated parts of that game against the Giants was, Yeah, 94 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: they weren't able to run in the first quarter, they 95 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: did hold Barclay back and that's what allowed them to 96 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: win some of those three and ounce early on. You 97 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: need to be able to do that against Washington because, 98 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: as I mentioned in a final thoughts video, we shot 99 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: moments ago and one of our other mediums we just 100 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: got our stocking caps taken off inside they are able 101 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: to run the ball. That is the number one best friend, 102 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: Dwayne Haskins right now, it's gonna be what he's gonna need. Yeah, 103 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: I mean, we've been talking about it all week long 104 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: that the Packers defensively, you've got to put this game 105 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: in the rookie quarterback's hands. You've got to make sure 106 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: he doesn't have that best friend that he can rely upon. 107 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: Now with Haskins, I'll give him credit. He's he's had 108 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: four starts. He's essentially played five games because one of 109 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: the games that he didn't start, he played a good 110 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 1: chunk of it. So in essence, five games, he's taking 111 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: care of the football. Okay, certainly compared to Daniel Jones 112 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: and and even Kyle Allen to a certain extent, he 113 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: only has, I believe it's a half dozen interceptions, only 114 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: one lost fumble, So he hasn't been this turnover machine 115 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: as a rookie quarterback. But in those five games, essentially 116 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: five games he's played, he's been sacked twenty two times, 117 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: three drop backs. So defense, defensively, that's the Packers would 118 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: love to be able to get after of the rookie 119 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: quarterback and make things difficult for him. But to get 120 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: to that point, you can't let Peterson and guys get going. 121 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: You have to shift the responsibility to the quarterback for 122 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: Washington be able to move the ball, while Washington's goal 123 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: is going to be the other way. They're gonna be 124 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: trying to limit the responsibility on the rookie quarterback for 125 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: the offensive success. Former Packers defensive line coach Mike Turkovac, 126 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: and it says something to me. I remember it was 127 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: in two thousand thirteen or twelve, like maybe my first 128 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: year even on the beat, and it was, you know, 129 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: we make so much out of man versus zone coverage 130 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: and all these things that we just kind of, you know, 131 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: we always rattle them off, and it's just part of 132 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: the lexicon when it comes to football. One of the 133 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: things very few people talk about is in the defensive front, 134 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: whether or not your defensive lineman can jet rush, and 135 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: what the risk and reward is of jet rushing with 136 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: your defensive lineman, because if you send a guy like 137 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: Kenny Clark who has that capability, that can potentially expose 138 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: you other places. That's why it's so critical to stop 139 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: the run here because if you can that allow is 140 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: Mike Petton and Jerry Montgomery that allows them to open 141 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: up the playbook a little bit, because if you look 142 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: at the games where Haskins has succeeded, it's because he 143 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: gets the time to scan the field. As a rookie quarterback, 144 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: he needs that extra millisecond to be able to process 145 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: everything that's going on. If you get pressure coming from 146 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: the outside and you collapse the pocket up front, that's 147 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: when the internal clock starts to speed up, and that's 148 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: when guys start to make mistakes. That is what I 149 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: think is critical because as much as people are gonna 150 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: just say, well, it's Preston Smith versus old team and 151 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: Zadarius Smith has twenty quarterback hits and those are the 152 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: two one, two primary options. No, I mean, as some 153 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: of the things you and I have discussed this week, 154 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: and you've articulated yourself, it's a lot on Dean Lowry 155 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: and Kenny Clark and that defensive line this week, how 156 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: they defend, how they hold their gaps, but also how 157 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: they're able to push that front. Because it's been a 158 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: really difficult year for Washington, but they still have some 159 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: guys there. They've made some investments to make sure that 160 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: they can actually get the protection they need for Haskins. 161 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: That is the number one chess piece, and I'm really 162 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: intrigued to watch once the game gets started on Sunday. Yeah. Well, 163 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: on the offensive side of the ball, the Packers would 164 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: certainly like to get their running game going as well. 165 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: Matt Lafleur talked about it. The Packers did not run 166 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: the ball as well as they had hoped last week 167 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: against the Giants. La Fleur said he actually put the 168 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: offense in some bad situations as far as personnel packages 169 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: and still trying to run. The Giants did have a 170 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: pretty tough front against the run. You give them credit there. 171 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: I know a lot. There's there's a lot of talk 172 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: outside the building west about getting Aaron Jones more involved 173 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: in all this kind of stuff as far as the 174 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 1: running game specifically goes. I honestly don't care whether it's 175 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: Aaron Jones or Jamal Williams, whichever guy is producing, but 176 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: the Packers need to get that running game going because 177 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: so much, so much of the rhythm and so much 178 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: of the production that we've seen from this offense in 179 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen has come from the play action when the 180 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: running game is working. So I don't really plays last 181 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: week even when the running game wasn't working. I mean 182 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: early on. They had some nice runs in the first 183 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: half and then the play action passes came off of it, 184 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: and then in the second half it got to be 185 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: a little bit more of a struggle there to run 186 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: the football. So whatever it takes to run it, whichever 187 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: back it is, and maybe because of the weather, Jamal 188 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: Williams more of the bruiser, the power guy in the 189 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: cold weather. Whatever it takes, the Packers have got to 190 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: find a way to uh to run the football. You 191 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: want to get that going here in December for the 192 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: stretch runs. So I have to add this Mike spotted 193 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: caveat to this because at the time we take this, 194 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: we haven't gone to practice on Friday. Jamal Williams was 195 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: listed as a as a limited participant in Thursday's practice. 196 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: Now was that being mindful of his workload with the 197 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: knee injury or did something happen that we don't know 198 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: right now? So I want to be careful with that 199 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: in case this doesn't age well. But be that as 200 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:47,599 Speaker 1: it may. He was in the locker room yesterday. You 201 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: would hope and presume everything's okay. But the original points 202 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: stands is firm and true. It is Aaron Jones and 203 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: Jamal Williams in tandem. How you use those two guys 204 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: and how they're able to be effective. What I'm looking 205 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: for in this game particularly is they're going up against 206 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: the ranked run defense that has been really up and 207 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: down from the Moss here. Now they do have Ryan 208 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: Carrigan back, they have some of those guys that are there, 209 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: they're stalwarts up front, so that certainly would change things. 210 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: But it's just so it's so incredible how much different 211 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: this offense looks when Aaron Jones is going off, when 212 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: he is making the big place and the one thing 213 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: we still haven't really seen yet in week fourteen is 214 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: that's sixty yard breakthrough run. I mean, he has that 215 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: capability on every play and at this point he still 216 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: as long as carries only twenty eight yards. That could 217 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: happen this Sunday, It could happen next week against Chicago. 218 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: Whenever Aaron Jones goes off, everything else follows suits. So 219 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: I just think you don't want to It's it's so 220 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: easy just to say, well, why doesn't he just carry 221 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: the ball twenty times? Well, you you can't just keep 222 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: running against a wall and going three and out, and 223 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: you know that's your offense, and that's what you're hanging 224 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: your hat, and you have to be more multiple and 225 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 1: diverse than that. But at the same time, what he 226 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: did well in the Giants game is what you want 227 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: to see them try to continue to do, which is 228 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: those six and seven yard carries that stretch and and 229 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: get you in those favorable second downs and favorable third downs. 230 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: Because Aaron Jones and Jimal Williams are both talented enough 231 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: that they're going to occasionally break a big run, but 232 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: it's not being in second and eight and second and 233 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: nine that really is what puts you in a hole. Offensively, Yeah, 234 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: and certainly getting into those manageable third downs is where 235 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: Matt Lafleur, it's where Aaron Rodgers, that's where they want 236 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: to be. And I'll be writing about this in my 237 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: one Last Look column for Saturday. As far as okay, 238 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: the Packers have four regular season games here too to 239 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: make their last strides of improvement in all three phases. 240 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: I think we know. On defense, it's about limiting the 241 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: big plays on special teams. It's about finding a return game. 242 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: On offense, it's about getting more efficient on third down. 243 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 1: Both Aaron Rodgers and Matt Lafleur brought that up when 244 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: I asked the specific question, what is that, what is 245 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: the focus for improvement over the final four regular season games? 246 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: It's third out and you look at this game West, 247 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: the Washington Redskins are thirtieth in the league and third 248 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: down defense. Now, last week against Carolina, after they fell 249 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: behind fourteen to nothing, they stopped ten consecutive third downs. 250 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: There was a stretch there it was actually eleven third 251 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: downs where Carolina's only conversion was via a penalty. Now 252 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: they got Carolina in a ton of third and longs. 253 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: You look through the play by play in that game, 254 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: it was third and sixteen, there was third and twenty three, 255 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: there was third and eighteen. I mean, Carolina was in 256 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: these ridiculous situations and Washington's defense got on a roll. 257 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: They kept stopping them on those third downs. But still, 258 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: this is a defense that is thirtieth in the league 259 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: on the season in third down conversion percentage. And that's 260 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: something the Packers have to take advantage of and start 261 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: to crank that up, start to turn that back the 262 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: other way. Att, Yeah, and I do have a lot 263 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: of respect for what has happened with Washington. How Callahan 264 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: has pulled this thing back together because this very easily 265 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: could have been a two and fourteen one and fifteen 266 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: type team the way the direction season went. Now that 267 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: being said, your record isn't always what you say you are. 268 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: The two wins that they have are over arguably the 269 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: two most struggling, inconsistent teams right now in the league 270 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: in Detroit and Carolina. They're in the conversation at least 271 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: a team that are going backwards right now. Certainly so 272 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: in that regard, you take it with a grain of salt. 273 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: But when that team steps on the field on Sunday, 274 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: they're not going to care about who they've beaten or 275 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: what their record is. They care about the fact that 276 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: they've won two games in a row. They're going to 277 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: have some wind in their sales, and they want to 278 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: suddenly pull themselves back into this NFC East race. That 279 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: it really looks like eight wins could win this thing, 280 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: maybe seven. So that nothing you can't you can't say 281 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: anything's out the door, You can't say anythings out the window. 282 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: It goes back to the exactly what I was saying 283 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: in this very seat at almost the exact moment a 284 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: week ago. Giants struggling. The Giants had the record they had. 285 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: The Green Bay Packers have nine wins for a reason, 286 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: they need to go out in lambeau Field on Sunday 287 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: at home in front of their home crowd. Improve it. Yeah, 288 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: it's time to take care of business certainly. Well, you 289 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: mentioned the NFC East race. We saw a Thursday night game. 290 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: The Dallas Cowboys went into Soldier Field and quite frankly, 291 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: West they stunk it up and the Bears took advantage. 292 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: The Bears got Mitchell Troubinsky running with the ball again, 293 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: both scrambling out of the pocket, read option runs, all 294 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: kinds of things. Suddenly, the running Mitch Trubisky that I 295 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: thought was a big part of the Bears going twelve 296 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: and four last year, he's back that that's what they're doing, 297 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: and it got them a big win over the Dallas 298 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: Cowboys thirty one to twenty four. And the game was 299 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: not that close, quite frankly, not not not even close 300 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: to being that close. And the Chicago Bears are seven 301 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: and six. They're still hanging in this thing in the 302 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: NFC to try to make a push for the playoffs. 303 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: The Dallas Cowboys still lead being the NFC East at 304 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: the moment, but at six and seven, with Philadelphia trying 305 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: to right the ship, and quite frankly, the Washington Redskins 306 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: looking now at an opportunity that hey, we're three and nine, 307 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: but if we run the table at seven and nine, 308 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: it might actually be enough to win the division. Washington 309 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: is not completely out of this yet. So the one 310 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: of the things I really hated about the narrative this game, 311 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: and I watched basically all of it. The first thing, 312 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: on Dallas's side, They're gonna put a lot of this 313 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: on Mayher, the kicker, Brett Mayhor. They're gonna put a 314 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: lot of it on Jason Garrett. That is as bad 315 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: as I've seen a team defend the read option in 316 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: the last five years. I mean, it was there was 317 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: no commitment to the ball carry at all. It was 318 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: selling out for the running back. It was just making 319 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: the wrong decisions at the wrong times, and they picked 320 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: him apart. The Bears were able to do at will 321 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: what they wanted to do. They had the explosive chunk 322 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,479 Speaker 1: places and they just had the momentum. I mean, defensively, 323 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: they made the plays when they need to, They got 324 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,359 Speaker 1: the pressure when they needed to yeah, other than Troubinsky 325 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: throwing that interception at the goal line like on the 326 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: first possession. Other than that, it was like Dallas couldn't 327 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: stop him all the all night long. So and from 328 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: the Bears perspective, the one thing that has been kind 329 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: of maddening for me, and I think you can only 330 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: really have this perspective if you're on the outside looking in, 331 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: because I think people in Chicago are really quick to 332 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: jump on Trubisky, whether it's media or fans. I've tried 333 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: to be right down the middle with this guy from 334 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: the very beginning. I didn't buy into the hype at 335 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: the bending of the year that this guy is going 336 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: to be an m v P candidate and all that. 337 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: But I also never really got to the point where 338 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: it was like, no, you gotta move on, you gotta 339 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: find a new quarterback, which is what the narrative kind 340 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: of was. Mitchell Trubisky is a really talented guy, and 341 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: when you call the game to accentuate his strengths, like Mattnege, 342 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: to his credit, did on on Thursday Night, you see 343 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: what he can do to a defense. Now Dallas is 344 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: struggling on defense. They are not the defense I thought 345 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: they were when they played the Packers earlier this season, 346 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: but you have to play the team that's in front 347 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: of you. So whether it was you know, Montgomery being 348 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: able to you know, get some yards and actually build 349 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: some momentum out of the backfield, just what Trubisky was 350 00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: able to do with the ball in his hands and 351 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: spreading it around. They made the plays they need to make, 352 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: and when they got the turnovers and takeaways, they executed 353 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: on them. Yeah, well elsewhere here in Week fourteen, we 354 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: won't spend too much time talking about the Lions traveling 355 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: to Minnesota because quite frankly, I'll be shocked if Detroit 356 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: in the situation there and and with Minnesota coming off 357 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: of a difficult loss, but but certainly a performance that 358 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: was nothing to hang their head about in a tough 359 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: road environment in Seattle. I think Minnesota wins that the 360 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: Packers are going to need to win to stay a 361 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: game ahead of the Vikings. But two big games in 362 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: the NFC that we definitely need to talk about. What's 363 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: a pair of ten and two teams. The San Francisco 364 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: forty Niners. We'll be traveling to New Orleans to take 365 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: on the Saints, and then in Sunday Night football. The 366 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 1: Seattle Seahawks, coming off of that big home Monday night 367 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: win over Minnesota, they will go to Los Angeles to 368 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: play a Rams team that seems to have found a 369 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: little bit of new life. The Rams are at seven 370 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: and five, and they were trying to stay in this 371 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: NFC playoff mix as well. Yeah, they're trying to stay 372 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: in the orbit of this whole thing. And the thing 373 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: that differs from where the Rams are where the Bears are. 374 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: The Bears have a really they have a grind coming 375 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: up here, including Green Bay. Yeah, they are sitting at 376 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: the Bears. The Bears get the extra rest now, the 377 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: mini buy with the Thursday night game, but then they 378 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: have Green Bay Kansas City in Minnesota to finish the season, 379 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: and the Bears are looking at needing to run that 380 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: table to get to ten and six and then let 381 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: the Chips fall and see if they're in the mix. Yeah, 382 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: whereas you look at the Rams right now, they have 383 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: Dallas coming up. They do have to face San Francisco 384 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: at San Francisco and then they actually close the season 385 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: at home against Arizona. So there's still very much in 386 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: the thick of this thing. If they can get on 387 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: a run. You'd imagine they're gonna have to beat Seattle 388 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: or and or San Francisco probably and uh to really 389 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: make a run at this thing, but they're still in 390 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: it as well. A great matchup. It'll be interesting to 391 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: see exactly how Seattle responds. Uh. Just an incredible game 392 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: that they were a part of too. To be able 393 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: to pull that out and everything that went into it. Uh, 394 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: you saw, I thought the resiliency from Russell Wilson bounced 395 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: back from smart early adversity and now he's gonna be 396 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 1: taken on a RAMS defense that's look pretty good as 397 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: of late. The main event, and we've been pointing towards 398 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: this for months has been San Francisco versus New Orleans 399 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: because these are the two teams I think since the 400 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: very beginning of the season, once they started to realize 401 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: when San Francisco got on this undefeated run, they're legitimate 402 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: their contenders and they can win the way that they 403 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: play and New Orleans is just a different type of bird. 404 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: I mean, the way that they come together and we're 405 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: able to get through Drew Brees injury and get Breeze 406 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: back on the field and he hasn't been perfect, but 407 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: he's played well and just keep the cylinders running the 408 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: whole time. That's a huge testament to Sean Payton. And 409 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: I'm really interested to see how this week plays out 410 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: because every single game in some shape or form has 411 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: implications for Green Bay. Who wins, how they win, and 412 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: you know where everything falls after that. If you're a 413 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: Packer fan, you're cheering for the Rams. Is that right? 414 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: Or how do you see that? Yeah? I think as 415 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: as a Packer fan, I think you're child that you 416 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: w note you're hoping that. I think because because the 417 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: potential for a first round by is still there. I 418 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: think you're cheering for the Rams to beat the Seahawks. 419 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: And and and I'll have this by the way, in 420 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: my Path to the Playoffs, it is returning two Packers 421 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: dot Com Path the Playoffs will be posted later in 422 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: the day on Friday, so check that out over the weekend. 423 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think you want the Rams to beat 424 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: the Seahawks, and I think you want the forty Niners 425 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 1: to beat the Saints, because when you look at it 426 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: from the from the big picture, if the Packers are 427 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: going for a potential first round by one of those 428 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: top two seeds the Seahawks and the forty Niners. Only 429 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: one of them can get one of those spots because 430 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: they're in the same division. Whoever doesn't win that division 431 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: is going to be a wild card. So the Saints, 432 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: who have already clinched the NFC South, there a division champ. 433 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: They are fighting for one of those top two seeds. 434 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: That's really the team. If you just say, okay, between 435 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: the forty Niners and the Seahawks, whoever wins the West 436 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: is going to get one of the buys. Then if 437 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: you're the Packers, you're like, okay, Well, if the Packers 438 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: can overtake the Saints, then you would get the second one. 439 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: So I think you want New Orleans to lose. But 440 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: regardless one of those teams, the Saints of the forty 441 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: nine Ers, barring and overtime tie, will be ten and three. 442 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: And if the Packers beat Washington, the Packers are ten 443 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: and three, and then you're looking at a little bit 444 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: different picture here the last three weeks. I'm glad you 445 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: do path to the playoffs. I don't think my i 446 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: Q level or my a c T scores high enough 447 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: to well you can you can read it and get 448 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 1: all caught up, and then we can talk about Sunday. 449 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: We can talk about it Sunday morning when we reconvene 450 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: in the press box. But before we go here west, 451 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: there is one other thing we'll go a little bit 452 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: over time because a couple of weeks ago and it's 453 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: a subject we just haven't gotten to yet with everything 454 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: else going on. Leroy Butler, former Packers safety, for the 455 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: third year in a row, has reached the semifinalist stage 456 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: in his bid to gain induction into the Pro Football 457 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio. Now, the previous two 458 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: years he has not gotten from the semifinalists to the 459 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: finalist stage. Semifinalist stage is the top twenty five candidates 460 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: for induction. Then when it goes to the finalist stage, 461 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: I forget and I was a ten or fifteen. So 462 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: then it'll be whittled from twenty five down to fifteen 463 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: before the Hall of Fame Selection Committee meets on Super 464 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: Bowl weekend and then they whittle it down from fifteen 465 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: to a maximum of five modern day inductees from this group. UM, 466 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: I know you have some thoughts here on Mr Butler 467 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: and his candidacy. I know you and I are very 468 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: much on the same page with this, but I'll give 469 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: you the floor for the moment. Well, the journalistic oath here, 470 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: I have to admit, like there is an internal bias 471 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: with me. I've known Leroy Butler since two thousand thirteen. 472 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: I did a radio show with him for four years, 473 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: So there is a personal investment here. I want to 474 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: disclose that. So it isn't just that I'm just spouting 475 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: off on all this. But that being said, when I 476 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: was at the Green Bay Press Gazette, I remember the conversation. 477 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: It started to get you get fired up a little bit, 478 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: especially as kind of the the relation and um, you know, 479 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: kind of the field towards safety started to turn, started 480 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: to get a little bit more respects what I'm trying 481 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: to say. And there was a time that I kind 482 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: of in my mind was able to understand maybe why 483 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: Leroy Butler had been overlooked. He got hurt, his career 484 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: was over after two thousand one. Maybe he just didn't 485 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,719 Speaker 1: play quite long enough. Yeah, the career did end sooner 486 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: than expected. And then about two years ago I said, 487 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: that's absolute garbage. I don't know what I was thinking 488 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: with that, because then you start to see some of 489 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: these guys. Ten years in the league is a long 490 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: time now. Was Leroy Butler starting safety from day one? No, 491 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: he was a cornerback. Took two years from to go 492 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: and play safety. Once he did, he became an All Pro. 493 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: I believe the only four time All Pro safety that 494 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: isn't in the Hall of Fame if I remember that correctly. Yes, 495 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: all any, any and all safeties who have been first 496 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,479 Speaker 1: team All Pro four or more times, every single one 497 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: of them is in Canton except for Butler. And I 498 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: tweeted this a couple of days ago. And you can 499 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: go back and write any number of stories I've written 500 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: on le Roy over the last time. I should I 501 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: should clarify who are eligible because Troy Polamalu is you know, um, 502 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: he's another one of those guys on the list, but 503 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: he just hasn't gotten far along yet. He'll be in there. 504 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: So this is the thing I struggle with with this 505 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: whole thing with Leroy is that. And I tweeted a 506 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: couple of nights ago. If you watched Packers, and I 507 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: know you did, and you tell me that that team 508 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: had to count them one too. Reggie White bred five 509 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: to Pro Football Hall of Famers on that team, and 510 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: that's the reason they won the Super Bowl. That's the 511 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: reason they turned around this whole narrative with the Green 512 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: Bay Packers and they went to back to back. Everything 513 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: relied on them. You are a fool le Roy Butler 514 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: in the way that Friz Shermer used him. I keep 515 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: saying this over and over again, and it's getting kind 516 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: of old. But he was hybrid before hybrid was cool. 517 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: He did not play strong safety like strong safeties played 518 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: strong safeties at that time. He played something more. It's 519 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: the reason he had as many sacks as he did. 520 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: I am not asking the Pro Football Hall of Fame 521 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: voters to put him in the Hall of Fame this year. 522 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm not asking that because I have a lot of 523 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: good friends on that panel that I respect mightily. I 524 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: am asking you to get him in the final fifteen 525 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: because the fact that Larroy Butler in two thousand nineteen 526 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: has not had Pete Doherty or Cliff Crystal standing up 527 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: there presenting his case to that panel is embarrassing. It 528 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: is embarrassing. All due respect to Steve Atwater, all due 529 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: respect to John Lynch, I hope they both get in 530 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame at some point. The fact that 531 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: Larroy Butler has not been up there and is considered 532 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: a tear below those two guys is unjust. Yeah, I 533 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: agree with you, and we were discussing this before we 534 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: turn the cameras on. I have nothing against John Lynch 535 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: or Steve Atwater, but when a couple of weeks ago, 536 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: when Butler was announced as a semifinalist for the third 537 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: year in a row, I answered a question and insider 538 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: in box with regards to Okay, what are his chances. 539 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: We've seen John Lynch and Steve Atwater both make the 540 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: finalist stage over the last couple of years, Butler has 541 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: gotten knocked out at the semifinalist stage. I look at 542 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: I look at Atwater specifically if you're going to make 543 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: a side by side comparison, and the thing that I 544 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: think is really unfortunate because Butler's a four time first 545 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: Team All Pro. At Water's got a couple of All 546 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: Pro nods, has a bunch more Pro Bowls, Yeah, he 547 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: has I think eight Pro Bowls. Butler doesn't have that 548 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,479 Speaker 1: many Pro Bowls. You look at the statistics, interceptions and sacks, 549 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: Butler's got him beat um So from a statistical standpoint, 550 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: there's a really strong case for Butler, and I have 551 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: nothing against Atwater, but what I think is unfortunate here 552 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: is it feels like the reason at Water, who played 553 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: a long time for the Denver Broncos, has been a 554 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: finalist and Leroy Butler has not is because of the 555 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: result of super Bowl thirty two. Because of that result, 556 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: Steve Atwater is a two time Super Bowl champion and 557 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: Leroy Butler has one super Bowl ring. And I personally 558 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: think that if that Super Bowl thirty two result had 559 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: been reversed, that where we'd be right now is Butler 560 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: would be the finalist and at Water would be the 561 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: guy on the outside looking in. And I don't think 562 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: that's right. That that's the part to me that is 563 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: unjust because, as I said, nothing against Lynch or at Water, 564 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: and Lynch I think is a little bit different case. 565 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: But looking at looking at Atwater and Butler, why why 566 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: does the number of Super Bowl rings matter? It was 567 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: one game. It was one game in San Diego in 568 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: January that it feels like it's that's what's blocking Leroy 569 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: Butler from getting further in this process. And I think 570 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,239 Speaker 1: that's wrong. And I have to present this too, at 571 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: least on the record, there is one coach from that 572 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: game that talked about needing to take away the other 573 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: team's safety. That coach was not Mike Holmgren. That was 574 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: Mike Shannon talking about trying to take away Leroy Butler. 575 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: He is the guy that we need to have a 576 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: hat on. He's the guy we need to be able 577 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: to eliminate. The reason there's a lot of all I'm 578 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: asking for is that if you look at the Pro 579 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 1: Football Hall of Fame process, and it is not an 580 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: easy process. I can continually admit that. But the way 581 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: this thing has gone in recent years is they create 582 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: it seems like they've created this line. Okay, at Waters 583 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: a two time finals, he moves up a little bit. 584 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: Unless you're a unanimous first bout Hall of Famer, you 585 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: know it. Lynch has been in the conversation, move up 586 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: a little bit. I just don't want to be in 587 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: a position where Atwater and Lynch get in his modern 588 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: day nominees and they push Leroy Butler off so that 589 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: when he's sixty years old or whatever, he can go in. 590 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: He has to go the Roy Butler is at peace 591 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,239 Speaker 1: with the fact he's going to be in the Pro 592 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: Football Hall of Fame. He's the calmest cookie in the 593 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: room as it. Yeah, he absolutely believes it's going to happen, 594 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: and he doesn't. He doesn't sweat it, which I give 595 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: him credit for that because because yeah, you and I 596 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: are the ones who are sweating it right now. But 597 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: for little old Green Bay, Wisconsin, if you've lived here, 598 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: if you've been a part of this thing, you understand 599 00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: what it was like for twenty nine years to be 600 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: in just complete irrelevancy. But Wright Butler was a big 601 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: part of this resurgence. People. Brett Favre was fun, He 602 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: was the trend setter. He he did everything as the 603 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: face of this franchise to make the Packers cool again. 604 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: Reggie White believed he came in and changed the culture 605 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: that defense. Roy Butler is on that Mount rushmore though, 606 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: at least as it relates to the Packers and the 607 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: success they had in the nineties. Yeah, I certainly agree 608 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: with you, and we have run over time. But we're 609 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: very much the rap on this edition. In this week 610 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: of Packers un Scripted, be sure to follow all of 611 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: our coverage of the team and of Sunday's game from 612 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: lambeau Field against Washington on Packers dot com. Subscribed to us, 613 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: like us on iTunes and other podcast services, and check 614 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: out the Packers YouTube channel for all of your great 615 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: video content for West I'm Mike. Thanks for tuning in. 616 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.