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Speaker 1: Cool media. Everyone's recording.

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Speaker 2: Yep, that's right.

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Speaker 1: I'm just swallowed water.

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Speaker 3: Wrong.

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Speaker 2: I cannot do the Heimlich from a distance. Oh no,

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Speaker 2: do you know the guy Heimlich himself? He actually interesting.

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Speaker 2: He never he's not dead yet. Well as of like

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Speaker 2: five years ago, he was still alive, so I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I should check on that. It might be dead. But

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Speaker 2: he actually never performed the Heimlich maneuver on anyone himself.

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Speaker 2: And as he got older, he started to get a

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Speaker 2: little kookier. Well, his thing works, the Heimlich short, but

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Speaker 2: then he started to like promote it for other things

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Speaker 2: like drowning victims, so like water going in the lungs.

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Speaker 2: He was like, you can get it out with the Heimlich,

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Speaker 2: and other doctors like no, that's crazy, including his son,

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Speaker 2: who was also a doctor, and so there was this

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Speaker 2: great drama between the two of them.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, Hello, and welcome to Cool People, Hit Did Cool Stuff.

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Speaker 1: You're a weekly podcast where we learn all about the

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Speaker 1: Heimlich maneuver. That's actually not the topic of today, but

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Speaker 1: that is the guest of today, doctor Heimlich, but instead

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Speaker 1: doctor Cavajoda. Hi who used voice? You just heard Hi, Harriet, I'm.

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Speaker 2: No doctor Heimlich. But I do like to squeeze people.

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Speaker 1: Consensually cool, and you are also, in addition to a

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Speaker 1: doctor and a consensual people squeezer, a podcast host yourself.

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Speaker 2: I have a podcast called The House of Pod. It

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Speaker 2: is a relatively fun medical podcast. We look at science,

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Speaker 2: medical topics and we make fun of grifters, and I

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Speaker 2: think it sort of falls into the same sort of

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Speaker 2: world that people who listen to your show would enjoy

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Speaker 2: and wanted to take part in. It's called the House

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Speaker 2: of Pod.

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Speaker 1: I tend to agree, and if people want to start,

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Speaker 1: you can hear me on an episode talking about being

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Speaker 1: a street kid and street kid medicine, where I'm not

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Speaker 1: at all the expert and I just like learn a

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Speaker 1: bunch of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Same with me. That's what I do. I do the

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Speaker 2: show just so I can learn stuff.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty good. I kind of messed this one up.

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Speaker 1: Other podcasts I've done. You find the person who knows

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Speaker 1: the thing and then you ask them about it. And

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Speaker 1: instead I was like, I'm going to commit to becoming

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Speaker 1: the expert on a new topic every week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I realized that to be a medical podcast or

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Speaker 2: someone in this medical wellness health podcast realm. If you

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Speaker 2: want to be famous. If I really want to be

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Speaker 2: good at this gig. If I wanted to make it,

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Speaker 2: I would have that Andrew Huberman thing where I pretend

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Speaker 2: I'm an expert in every single field and I come

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Speaker 2: at every topic as if I know exactly what the

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Speaker 2: answer is, as if there is a real answer, And

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Speaker 2: that's just not the way it is. Unfortunately, you have

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Speaker 2: to most medical things if you want to cover them right,

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Speaker 2: you do need to have an actual expert in that field,

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Speaker 2: someone who has trained specifically for that. So that's why

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Speaker 2: my show is going to remain tiny forever. But it's

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Speaker 2: the way I think it needs to be done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, have it be accurate, and yes, not go to

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Speaker 1: the one doctor who claims to know every single thing

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Speaker 1: in the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you will not learn body hacks on my show

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Speaker 2: or health hacks on my show.

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Speaker 1: That it was funny because you say that there's all

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Speaker 1: these different types of medicine that are necessary, but actually

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Speaker 1: tea tree oil fixes everything.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about oils. Let's get into oil.

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Speaker 1: Actually snake oil in particular, I've heard is good for everything.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what's funny is actually our mutual friend

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Speaker 2: Robert Evans once tried to convince me that it initially

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Speaker 2: did start off as a very useful thing. Oh snake oil, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: actual snake oil. Interesting, Okay, I'd never really delved into

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Speaker 2: the history of it. Now. Of course, the conversation around oils,

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Speaker 2: whether they be essential or seed, that conversation is like

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Speaker 2: been taken over by the wellness grifter community. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: when we do talk about oils, it raises the hackles.

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Speaker 2: The hair is on the back of my neck stand

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Speaker 2: up because oh yeah, I'm ready to go when the

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Speaker 2: oils come up.

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Speaker 1: And like hippie punk world, people try to use teachree

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Speaker 1: oil to solve everything. Yeah, and it's particularly interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: I was pitching this once. I was like, well, I

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Speaker 1: have this problem. I have the skin thing. And I

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Speaker 1: was talking to one of my friends as a PA

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Speaker 1: and he was like, you know, look, and he specialized

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Speaker 1: for a long time in skin like stuff that on

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Speaker 1: house people had to deal with, right, And he was like, look, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you could put teach reale on that. You could also

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Speaker 1: like just I don't know, bomb a neighborhood to get

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Speaker 1: rid of the rodents. That's fine, you can do whatever

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Speaker 1: you want.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an approach.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one approach is to start talking about things that

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Speaker 1: are completely unrelated today's topic, instead of introducing our producer,

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Speaker 1: Sophie Hi Sophie Hey, and also pointing out that this

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Speaker 1: podcast is audio engineered by Eva hi Eva.

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Speaker 4: Hi Eva.

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Speaker 1: You have to say hi to oh Hi hi Eva.

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. Please don't make please will make my

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Speaker 2: sound terrible because of that, I didn't know I was

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Speaker 2: supposed to say, hi, You're the best.

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Speaker 3: Did you watch the show the Pit I did.

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Speaker 2: I did a whole episode. I yes. Is the long

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Speaker 2: and short of it. It's very good. It is probably

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Speaker 2: the most accurate medical show on TV in a way,

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Speaker 2: which isn't saying much. The bar is relatively low, but

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously a lot of the things that they

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Speaker 2: cover are real that could really happen. Those things all

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Speaker 2: happening in one day is pretty absurd, and even the

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Speaker 2: busiest er it doesn't work like that. And I have

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Speaker 2: lots of little nitpicks sure about the show, like little things,

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Speaker 2: but they're not a big deal. There was one thing though,

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Speaker 2: that I noticed that no one else is brought up

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Speaker 2: in that show, and I'm wondering, maybe if one of

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Speaker 2: your listeners knows or for one of you had actually

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Speaker 2: paid attention to this. But there is this sexual tension

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Speaker 2: between no Wiley's character and one of the older residents

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Speaker 2: in the show because they had dated before. But if

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Speaker 2: that is the case, then he dated her while she

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Speaker 2: was an intern or a resident or even a medical student.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know how that has not been discussed

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Speaker 2: because that's a little bit weird and problematic. But like,

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Speaker 2: that's something about the show that was kind of Anyways,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to get too distracted.

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Speaker 3: I brought up the show because they have a character

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Speaker 3: that comes in. The character in the show was like

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Speaker 3: an original member of Freedom House.

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Speaker 1: Which would yes, yeah, if you want to bring it.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't just a like let me ask my dear

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Speaker 3: friend a thing. It was like a let's bring it back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very well done. The episode I did previously hear

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Speaker 2: was about the freedom That's where I learned about And

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Speaker 2: then after being on your show, Margaret, I invited Chief

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Speaker 2: John Moon, one of the original Freedom House ambulance drivers,

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Speaker 2: to come on to my podcast and I got to

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Speaker 2: meet him and that was an amazing experience and I

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Speaker 2: learned so much. But I learned that from your show

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Speaker 2: that was really that's where I got the idea.

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Speaker 1: And if anyone's curious, what the hell we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Freedom House was the first EMTs and their history is

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Speaker 1: far more in interesting than I would have assumed, and

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Speaker 1: far more recent than I would have assumed. Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this week. You'll be shocked

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Speaker 1: to know that came up with a medical topic for you.

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Speaker 1: Just completely shocked. I know that you weren't expecting that

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Speaker 1: at all.

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Speaker 2: I mean, although I would love to talk about like

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Speaker 2: other random stuff like basketball and music, which I love,

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Speaker 2: medicine is the thing. I know. I did spend a

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Speaker 2: lot of time doing it, so I know it.

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Speaker 1: Sophie's head popped up at the mention of basketball.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Damian Lillard just re signed with the Blazers. I'm

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Speaker 3: just saying, one.

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Speaker 1: Day I'm doing a basketball episode just for Sophie.

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Speaker 2: I want to be on that one.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's good to know. Anyway, you ever heard

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Speaker 1: of street medics?

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Speaker 2: I have, I have.

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Speaker 1: I know you also did an episode about this recently.

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Speaker 1: When I talking to one of my friends.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what I was gonna say was a lot

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Speaker 2: of what I know about street medicine is either from

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Speaker 2: you know, interacting with a couple online on Twitter or

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Speaker 2: Blue Sky and through you who I I've met now

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Speaker 2: one or two and done some podcasting with those people,

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Speaker 2: so I know a little bit and mostly from what

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Speaker 2: you've shared with me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. This week, so I've been doing this series where

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Speaker 1: I've been talking about the ultra globalization movement of the

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Speaker 1: late nineties and the early aughts, and I've been talking

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Speaker 1: about all of these different pieces that came together to

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Speaker 1: build sort of modern protest culture that has then had

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Speaker 1: a heavy amount of influence on the teens and twenties

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Speaker 1: protest culture. And We've talked about the Zapatistas and Chiapas

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Speaker 1: who set up a lot of hospitals, and I'm just

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Speaker 1: throwing in all the medical things and then sort of

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Speaker 1: laid a lot of the groundwork for confronting neoliberalism and

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Speaker 1: all of these things. And then we talked about the

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Speaker 1: Battle of Seattle, the protests in nineteen ninety nine. Last

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Speaker 1: week we talked about the National Lawyers Guild who go

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Speaker 1: out and do legal observation. And this week we are

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the early formation of street medics,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to weirdly do the same go back

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Speaker 1: to the nineteenth century that I did last week when

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Speaker 1: I talked about the nalg because I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about a rad lawyer who represented some labor activists in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: And this week I'm going to just why not start

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Speaker 1: in a really similar place, because one of the origins

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Speaker 1: of the modern street metic movement is people in the

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Speaker 1: US South working to register black voters and facing an

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Speaker 1: awful lot of police violence and non state violence for

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Speaker 1: doing so. The very first episode of this show was

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Speaker 1: about the Haymarket Anarchists, or a group of labor organizers

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Speaker 1: in Chicago who were framed up and hanged for some

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Speaker 1: strikes in eighteen eighty six. See the first episode of

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Speaker 1: the show last week's episode of the show, and bring

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Speaker 1: this up as many times as I can. Two of

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Speaker 1: the main characters in that are Lucy Parsons, who was

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Speaker 1: born enslaved, and her husband, although they couldn't be legally

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Speaker 1: married because of miscegenation laws, Albert Parsons. Albert, for his part,

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Speaker 1: survived being shot by white bigots for trying to register

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Speaker 1: black voters in the South. He survived that he didn't

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Speaker 1: survive getting hanged by the state literally for the crime

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Speaker 1: of being an anarchist, but that's a different story. So

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Speaker 1: the fact that someone got shot trying to register black

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Speaker 1: voters in the late eighteen sixties, right, and then you

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Speaker 1: can just fast forward ninety years and watch people get

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Speaker 1: shot for trying to register black voters in the South.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is also not that long ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. During the early civil rights era, the very

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Speaker 1: beginning of the nineteen sixties, you had activists from the

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Speaker 1: North who poured into the South to coordinate with Southern

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Speaker 1: activists to help register people to vote. And we've talked

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Speaker 1: about that era a fair amount on this show, including

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Speaker 1: episodes where we talked about the armed, nonviolent civil rights movement,

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Speaker 1: about how the things we understand about the civil rights

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Speaker 1: movement and the relationship with political violence, or rather their

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Speaker 1: actual relationship is far more nuanced than what we assume

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Speaker 1: them to be, because an awful lot of violence was

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Speaker 1: enacted onto people for trying to desegregate the country, to

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Speaker 1: say nothing of the violence enacted onto people who ended

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Speaker 1: chattel slavery, the bloodiest war in the United States history.

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Speaker 1: Wherever there is violence, there are people trying to repair

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Speaker 1: the wounds caused by that violence, and of course, poverty

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Speaker 1: and racism are also forms of violence, and so we'll

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Speaker 1: get to this a little later, but you get these

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Speaker 1: essentially activists, although they don't even necessarily need to feel

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Speaker 1: like activist doctors who are like, well, actually, poverty is

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Speaker 1: the thing causing the damage to my patient that needs

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Speaker 1: to be addressed.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because people these days will say that medicine

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be political, and in a way that is absolutely true.

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Speaker 2: But historically and currently, there is no way, unfortunately to

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Speaker 2: separate medicine and politics. And it's interesting to hear this

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Speaker 2: historical perspective, obviously because it's always been that way here.

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Speaker 2: But it's hard to be paying attention to public health

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Speaker 2: issues not consider massive political ramifications.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, God, especially right now, I feel like this even

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Speaker 1: kind of accidentally ties into the thing I'm planning to

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Speaker 1: do kind of once they finish all of these pieces

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Speaker 1: that come together around protest is I want to start

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Speaker 1: doing the work that was done delay the groundwork for

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Speaker 1: the things that we take for granted that are currently

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Speaker 1: being taken away from us, like public health initiatives. You know, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: so people are going down white and black are going

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Speaker 1: down to help register black voters and they're getting hurt

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Speaker 1: in the process. So in nineteen sixty three, a bunch

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Speaker 1: of medical professionals formed an affinity group that they called

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Speaker 1: the Medical Committee for Civil Rights or MCCR, and this

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Speaker 1: particular group of people they went to the March on

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Speaker 1: Washington and then they decided to volunteer at that they

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Speaker 1: had affinity group. They go to the March on Washington

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Speaker 1: and they're like, well, next year's big thing is Freedom Summer,

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Speaker 1: another one of these registration drives. Right, they changed their

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Speaker 1: name to the Medical Committee for Human Rights. And this

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Speaker 1: group is the mother of the Street medic movement and

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Speaker 1: also the mother of a ton of other stuff besides this,

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Speaker 1: which is another thing that I come up all the time.

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Speaker 1: There's all of these like really discrete groups that we

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Speaker 1: think about and then we look back and we're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: like eight people invented like all of those things in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen forties or whatever. Yeah, So, in the spring

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Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty four, when around one thousand volunteers came

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Speaker 1: to Mississippi to register voters Freedom Summer, around one hundred

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Speaker 1: of them were medical professionals, especially doctors and nurses working

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Speaker 1: with MCCHR. Their arrival was coordinated by doctor Robert Smith,

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Speaker 1: one of the first black physicians in Mississippi. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's important to highlight. One because Robert Smith is

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Speaker 1: the name of the guy from the Cure, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's funny. And two because we often present white

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Speaker 1: heroes coming from the North, or we even kind of

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Speaker 1: present like white wannabe saviors coming from the North and

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Speaker 1: not address the fact that this was coordinated in solidarity

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Speaker 1: with people working on the ground. Who are you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the black doctors in Mississippi.

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Speaker 2: That's something that's really nice about what we did. When

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Speaker 2: you talk to me about the Freedom House people is

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Speaker 2: they're going to make a movie out of it. I

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Speaker 2: know that's coming down the pipeline. Yeah, I'm about ninety

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Speaker 2: certain it's going to probably start someone like Timothy Shallow

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Speaker 2: May as like the one token white guy in the

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Speaker 2: Freedom House. Yeah, the story about everyone else, all the

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Speaker 2: African American guys, who were the people doing all the work.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Macbie knows who Chalo May is.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Nope, nope, Okay, I.

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Speaker 1: Assume he was a white man. Hold on, I bet

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Speaker 1: if I look him up. See. The problem is that

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Speaker 1: I'm a little bit face blind and a lot of

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Speaker 1: it name blind, Shalla May okay, Timothy Shallo. Ma, let's

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Speaker 1: see Dune I assume Oh yeah, yeah, yeah this guy. No, totally, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the Dune man. I understand, Dune guy. Yeah, I understand.

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Speaker 1: And modern society that I live in, I don't live

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Speaker 1: entirely in books set in the nineteen or eighteen sixties. Yeah, totally,

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Speaker 1: so exactly that. And there are ways that you can

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Speaker 1: tell these stories to focus on like some of the

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Speaker 1: white people and the way a lot of these stories

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Speaker 1: are told does that. And I'm going to try and

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Speaker 1: undo that where I can, and I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: totally succeed, but I will say there was a white

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Speaker 1: person heavily involved in this as the villain. The head

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Speaker 1: of the Mississippi Department of Health was a bigot and

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Speaker 1: segregationist named Archie Gray, which is a good name for

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Speaker 1: a shitty racist.

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Speaker 2: It's a bad guy named Yeah. It's sort of the

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Speaker 2: opposite of Robert Smith, which is always someone cool. If

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Speaker 2: your name is Archie, I'm sorry for your three listeners

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Speaker 2: named Archie.

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Speaker 1: You're finding it up Hill Battle, Yeah, yeah, you're finding

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Speaker 1: about Bill Battle. And then Gray is just a villain's

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Speaker 1: last name, and that's fine. You can lean into it

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Speaker 1: and be a good person who's kind of a villain,

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Speaker 1: or you can just be Archie Gray and be a

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Speaker 1: biggot and segregationist. The Mississippi Department of healthhit ahead of

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Speaker 1: it and he was like, yeah, I won't be giving

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Speaker 1: you all licenses to practice in Mississippi. So all of

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Speaker 1: these out of town doctors come and they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're going to practice, and he's like, no, you're not.

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Speaker 1: I don't like you. They couldn't practice medicine formally, despite

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Speaker 1: all of them being professionals in the field, and so

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Speaker 1: they started doing what they could. Some of them formed

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Speaker 1: the Medical Presence Project to specifically provide medical care at protests,

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Speaker 1: making them the first street medic collective I've found in

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Speaker 1: anything I've ever read. And when I've talked to street

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Speaker 1: medics about their history, they're going to point to the MPP,

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Speaker 1: the Medical Presence Project, as the first one.

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Speaker 2: Very cool.

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Speaker 1: But the second thing that those people will tell me

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Speaker 1: is they'll say, Margaret, but what about those goods and services?

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Speaker 1: You'll be shocked how much this comes up in my

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Speaker 1: regular life. I'll just be talking to people, and people

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Speaker 1: be like, but Margaret, I always go to you to

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Speaker 1: find out about goods and services, and so I know

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Speaker 1: you've been telling me history like a normal person at

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Speaker 1: a party does, But why don't you tell us about stuff?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, like, if people are hanging out with you

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Speaker 2: face to face, they still want the podcast experience, so

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Speaker 2: you have to give it to them. That's right.

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Speaker 1: I totally never make accidental adtivots in the middle of conversation.

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Speaker 1: That would be weird. It's like a bathroom break, that's

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Speaker 1: a yeah, totally. Anyway, here's some ads and we're back.

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Speaker 1: So the Medical Presence Project and just the people who

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Speaker 1: went down there, one hundred or so people who went

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Speaker 1: down there, they started helping out the rest of the

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Speaker 1: thousand or so volunteers, and they also started serving some

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Speaker 1: of basically the longtime activists were burned out like hell,

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Speaker 1: and so they were suffering from what at the time

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Speaker 1: was being called battle fatigue. And I love that there

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Speaker 1: are just like like PTSD is just named a different thing.

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Speaker 1: At any given decade, it seems like I'm wondering what's next,

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Speaker 1: because clearly people were like, can you believe they used

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Speaker 1: to call it? Like when it was. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what came before shell shock, but like whenever game before

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Speaker 1: shell shock, they were like, man, you can believe they

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Speaker 1: used to call it that instead of shell shock. We

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Speaker 1: now understand this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the harsher version of shell shock? That

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Speaker 2: is funny? Yeah, sure there was something terrible.

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Speaker 1: And then eventually people are gonna be like PTSD, what

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Speaker 1: an antiquated, old timy way of putting it.

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Speaker 2: I think they're going to go back to something like

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Speaker 2: the phrases my kids uses, like Italian brain rot. I

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Speaker 2: don't know what it means, but it's like these phrases

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Speaker 2: that are like Italian uh yeah, it's like a gen

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Speaker 2: Z term for like being online too much. I think, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to go into because I don't know

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Speaker 2: enough about it to mention it. And hopefully there's nothing

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Speaker 2: really problematic.

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Speaker 1: The podcast where we pretend to understand slang of the youth,

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Speaker 1: that'd be really popular. Everyone love it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, your own children get you canceled.

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Speaker 4: I like that.

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Speaker 2: That's you know, it's the ones you love, they're the

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Speaker 2: ones that hurts you the most.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad it was you, son.

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Speaker 4: Oh funny.

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Speaker 1: One volunteer doctor Lee Hoffman described his activities that summer

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Speaker 1: like this, I think this is a given day. Quote.

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Speaker 1: Attended a civil rights worker who was beaten over the head,

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Speaker 1: played football with local high school boys. Visited several sick

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Speaker 1: local people with nurse, was arrested for being out after curfew,

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Speaker 1: put a lock on a freedom house. Attended funeral at

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Speaker 1: request of a terminal patient I had seen earlier. And

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Speaker 1: so they're just going down there and trying to be helpful,

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Speaker 1: trying to be useful. The nineteen sixty six Orientation Manual

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Speaker 1: to the MCCHR described the medical presence project the street

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Speaker 1: medic part of it this way. Quote. Just the presence

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Speaker 1: of health personnel has been found extraordinarily useful in allaying

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Speaker 1: apprehensions about disease and injury in the civil rights workers.

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Speaker 1: There also seems to be a preventative aspect to medical presence.

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Speaker 1: Actual violence seems to occur less often if it is

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Speaker 1: known that medical professionals are present, particularly when civil rights

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Speaker 1: workers are visited in jail, at the time of imprisonment

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Speaker 1: or thereafter regularly. In addition, medical personnel should anticipate violence

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Speaker 1: in terms of specific projects and localities and be present

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Speaker 1: at the right place at the right time. Thus, medical

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Speaker 1: personnel should be an intimate contact with civil rights organizations

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Speaker 1: at all times and be aware of any immediately planned activities.

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Speaker 2: I feel like this is.

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Speaker 5: All an elaborate plan that you've concocted, Margaret to guilt

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Speaker 5: me into doing more work at protests than I do.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing though, right is like you're like, we

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Speaker 1: also just still go into your day job and help

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Speaker 1: people with very dramatic problems.

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Speaker 2: You know, I have so much respect for the people

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Speaker 2: doing this. You know, doctors are generally a risk averse group.

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Speaker 2: That's a big part of like why that's true. We

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Speaker 2: went into this job and the first place, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we think of the safest thing in every possible situation.

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Speaker 2: That's part of what makes us good. We don't think

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Speaker 2: outside the box in some ways, you know, we're very

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Speaker 2: linear thinkers. So for people that have the training that

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Speaker 2: they could have focused their time and energy on going

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Speaker 2: out and building a practice and making money or doing

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Speaker 2: whatever they were going to do, to do this instead.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I'm a fan because it's my profession,

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Speaker 2: but I'm so impressed with these people doing this. It

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Speaker 2: seems to me it's such a zig when people would

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Speaker 2: expect them to zag, and I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: No, that's actually a really interesting point about Like I'm

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Speaker 1: like thinking through of like my doctor friends, and I'm like, oh, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: Like that's the person I go to to not tell

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Speaker 1: me to do the crazy thing, but instead to very

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Speaker 1: specifically tell me to not do the crazy thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we're the boring friends generally.

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Speaker 1: Which are absolutely necessary.

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Speaker 2: You're not my boring friend, you know, I'm fun for

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Speaker 2: a doctor, but the bar is low.

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Speaker 1: So one of the other things that they learned was

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Speaker 1: that like of the people down there, they tended to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit older, right, and so they also

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Speaker 1: tended to be a kind of counterbalancing force almost generationally,

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Speaker 1: and like, not that older people are necessarily wiser. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the older people are usually more risk averse, right, because

436
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: they've seen what happens to all their friends when people

437
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: aren't risk averse. But of like a thousand people going down,

438
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: a greater percentage of the older folks who went down,

439
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 1: which I have a feeling means they were like thirty,

440
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: But like, right, I don't actually know, because the problem

441
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: is that when I read things about like people who

442
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: are live in the sixties. A lot of them are

443
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 1: still alive today and they're very old, and so I'm like, ah, yes,

444
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 1: and so they sort of in my head are.

445
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 2: Still old back then, you know, right, they were always sixty.

446
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

447
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: I mean when you see pictures of them. The funny

448
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: thing is, you know, we always look at pictures. I

449
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 2: don't know, there's probably a name for the phenomenon, but like,

450
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: whenever you look at pictures of people our age back then,

451
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 2: they look so much older. Like when they showed like

452
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 2: the cast of the TV show Cheers, which you probably

453
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 2: never watched, they have like this meme where that shows

454
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 2: you all their pictures and then their ages above it.

455
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: And the characters that you assumed were always sixty when

456
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 2: the show started were all like twenty nine, thirty three.

457
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally totally. And it's just like these styles have changed,

458
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:16,360
Speaker 1: and like, yeah.

459
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 4: Like the Golden Girls, Yeah.

460
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: You brought that up. You were telling me that, like

461
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: they were all not incredibly old.

462
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Blant was like forty something. Yeah, fuck, we're just

463
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: super young. Final by the way, just laying everyone, No, yeah,

464
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: the forties are the new teens.

465
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: Great, That's why I'm getting into skateboarding. Anyway. Uh No,

466
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: So after Freedom Summer, they get back and they're like,

467
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: you know what, We're going to keep MCCHR around. And

468
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: they hired paid staff, and they opened chapters in a

469
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: bunch of different cities, and they helped out civil rights workers.

470
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: They helped out people in their cities who had no

471
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 1: access to medical care. They picketed the American Medical Association

472
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: because it lets state local affiliates deny black doctors memberships

473
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: until the late sixties. And yeah, sorry, we'll probably gonna

474
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: talk more about them. I don't know that much about them,

475
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: But whenever I do these episodes, whenever there's like the

476
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: big institutional things still around, you look back and like

477
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: in the nineteen tens, they were just monsters.

478
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 2: Right, you know.

479
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, You're like, I wonder if they still are.

480
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 2: I don't know. They've always been conservative, They've leaned conservative,

481
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 2: at least historically.

482
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: Okay. In nineteen sixty six, Martin Luther King Junior spoke

483
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 1: at their convention at the MCCHR convention and said, quote,

484
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: of all the forms of inequality injustice and healthcare is

485
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: the most shocking and inhumane, and street medics have been

486
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: at the forefront of developing protocols for dealing with chemical weapons.

487
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: They're doing all of this stuff right, because the world

488
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: doesn't get boring in nineteen sixty six. There's a lot

489
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: going on seed pretty much the entire first year of

490
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: this show. Street Medics are the forefront of developing protocols

491
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: for dealing with chemical weapons for reasonably obvious reasons. And

492
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into the specifics of the

493
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: different protocols they developed on air, because the first practice

494
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: they developed, which was later adapted by the US military,

495
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 1: can actually make the condition worse when done improperly, and

496
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: because of that complication, by the end of the twentieth century,

497
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: Street Medics developed yet another protocol, one that is safer.

498
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: These days, every street medic I know spends their free

499
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: time proselytizing the virtues of just using water for eye

500
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: flushes for chemical weapons. Yes, not milk, not milk. I'm

501
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: going to end up custom writing an ad that's just

502
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: not milk. That's the ad, not milk.

503
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, the milk thing is funny because it's so persistent,

504
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: and every time there's a new round of protests that

505
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: comes up, you see like Instagram or TikTok, people talking

506
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: about using milk, because on some level it seems like

507
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 2: it would make sense if there's something your eye you

508
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 2: feel like it's acidic, and maybe the milk.

509
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: It will cultualize it.

510
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is not the case. Just water, water, water, water,

511
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: h lots of water, more water than you think.

512
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are specific conditions in hospital situations or

513
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: whatever where there's other protocols that people use. But like

514
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: in the field, imagine going to jail covered in milk.

515
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: Just imagine that and then think, wouldn't I rather be

516
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: covered in water? Right now?

517
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, milk was a bad choice.

518
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 3: I never did that math, but wow, yeah.

519
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: That was what like, because I knew it was like

520
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: not true for a very long time. Sure, but it

521
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: was when a street medic friend of mine was just like, yeah, now,

522
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: imagine that you're going to spend like the next forty

523
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: eight hours in lockup with no access to shower and

524
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: you're just covered in milk. That's getting worse.

525
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: Right.

526
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: For a little while, mcchr toyed with the idea of

527
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: considering itself politically neutral, but as the nineteen sixties went on,

528
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: a majority of them agreed we're not bystanders, we are

529
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: aligned directly with the movements that they cared for. And

530
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: what's interesting last week we talked about the National Lawyer's

531
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: Guild and it's a very very similar origin. It's a

532
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: couple decades earlier, but by the nineteen sixties, the National

533
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: Lawyer's Guild was also like, look, we are part of

534
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,239
Speaker 1: these movements, we care about these movements. We're not going

535
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: to pretend like we're neutral. That doesn't going to stop

536
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: us from doing our jobs, which involves a certain amount of,

537
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, taking a little bit of a step back

538
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: from certain things.

539
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 2: Right, I'm sorry, just for my clarification. So the MCCHR,

540
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: that's the Medical Committee for Human Rights. Yeah, and that

541
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: sort of came from that Medical Committee for Civil Rights.

542
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: Yep.

543
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 2: And just roughly speaking, is there a sense of how

544
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: big it was? I'm assuming and my brain's having a

545
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: hard time imagining like whether or not this is a

546
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: room of like ten people or hundreds, or was there

547
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: any sense of like how large this organization was.

548
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: I don't have numbers in this script. And then I've

549
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: read a lot of different sources about this early stuff,

550
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: and I know there's chapters in a bunch of different cities.

551
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: I am guessing in the like high hundreds, that's my guess.

552
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: I know they started off with about one hundred. They

553
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: started off going down there with about one hundred people.

554
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 2: Oh see, that's rad. That's actually so much bigger than

555
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: my mind had envisioned. And I also didn't know that

556
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: it was in multiple places. That's really Yeah, that's actually

557
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: pretty I guess I'm surprised I haven't heard about them,

558
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: but I guess I shouldn't be.

559
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: No, it interesting because like they're sort of seen as

560
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: a little bit the precursor and a little bit like

561
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more politically neutral than the like street

562
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: medic thing that's going to break out from it. You know,

563
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: a lot of different things are going to come out

564
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: of it, and actually the whole we'll get to something cool.

565
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: Okay, okay.

566
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: So one of the major figures who provides a through

567
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: line across this history of street medics is named Anne Hirshman,

568
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: and she wrote in a newsletter at that time that

569
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: MCCHR members must quote take our stand first as part

570
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: diticipants in the struggles that will be taking place against

571
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: war and oppression, and then use our skills and share

572
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: our skills if they are needed they also the thing

573
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: that I just said, I was going to say, really soon,

574
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: the community health center movement comes from this oh shit, yeah,

575
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: and that is very widespread across the countries.

576
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 4: Okay.

577
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: Most of what I've read of the histories of the

578
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: community health center movement credits to Maverick doctor guys like

579
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: two white dudes and a bunch of federal funding from

580
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: the government for creating the first community health centers. And

581
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: you've got to find histories that focus on the civil

582
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: rights movement specifically and the MCCHR to find the connection

583
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: and find out that they were MCCHR members. I also,

584
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: at the risk of becoming the Mally Konger of my

585
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: own show. From the show Weird Little Guys, which everyone

586
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: should be listening to, I can draw a connection between

587
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: the community health center movement and and people fighting against

588
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: apartheid in South Africa. Okay, now, if it was a

589
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: Weird Little Guy's episode, it would be people fighting four

590
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: apartheid in South Africa. There was a doctor named Jack

591
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: Geeger who was part of MCCHR. Like so many people

592
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: that we've talked about on the show. He was raised

593
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: in New York City by Jewish parents who'd fled the

594
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: Holocaust that he ended up spending some of his teenage

595
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: years being raised by a black actor. I don't know

596
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: how much that's myth making. I mean, it's true he

597
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: ran away from home and grew up in a black

598
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 1: household for a while, But I don't know how much

599
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: of that's like myth making. Because he's a very big

600
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: civil rights guy.

601
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 5: You know.

602
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: He had studied in South Africa in the nineteen fifties

603
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: under two doctors who developed what they called community oriented

604
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: primary care, and they'd run two clinics in South Africa.

605
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: One was in a housing project in a city and

606
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: one was at a rural was called a tribal reserve.

607
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: These clinics were free clinics, but they also helped develop

608
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: nutritional programs and shit like that. So in nineteen sixty four,

609
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: ten years later, he's in the US and Jack Geeger

610
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: is like, we should do this in the US, and

611
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: we should do it in the Deep South. He talked

612
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: a rich person into funding a free clinic in Millston, Mississippi,

613
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: and it ruled and it worked really well. Like I

614
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: haven't found anyone saying anything negative about it, and everything

615
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: I've looked for it turns out that giving people free

616
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: medical care makes everything better, like.

617
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: Makes a community better.

618
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, who would have thought.

619
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you need like one rich person per clinic

620
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: for that model, right right, And they needed a fuck

621
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: ton of clinics. So he teamed up with a doctor

622
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: named Count Gibson, who his first name is Count, which

623
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: is a cool first.

624
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: His name was Count. Yeah, that's awesome.

625
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and he's actually his dad's name is Count,

626
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: so he's actually Count Gibson as a junior.

627
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: So cool.

628
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: And Count Gibson was the chair of the Department of

629
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: Medicine at Tufts University. I feel like if I was

630
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: in at the university and the head of the medical

631
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: department was Count Gibson, I'd like watch my neck while

632
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: I was sleeping.

633
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: Just yeah, this is free Sesame Street. But yeah yeah,

634
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: but actually, when you're talking about the federal funding they got,

635
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 2: this is okay. And I apologize in advance. This is

636
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: going to be embarrassing my lack of knowledge of US history.

637
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: This is Lyndon Johnson. Right, we're going to get to that. Okay,

638
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: We're going to get to Lyndon Johnson's war on poverties.

639
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: That's going to be the solution they find, but right

640
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 2: now they're like trying to figure out. They're like, well,

641
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: we can't find a rich guy.

642
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: For every clinic. We need federal funds, right, and so

643
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: count Gibson. He was another cool doctor guy. He was

644
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: heavily inspired by the Catholic anarchist Dorothy Day from the

645
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: Catholic Worker Movement, and he was basically like the first

646
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: white guy to scream what the fuck about the Tuskegee

647
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: Syphilists study in which black men were given syphilis by

648
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: the US government because the US government is racist as fuck.

649
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 5: Yep.

650
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: So it like people started listening more because the white man,

651
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: the well respected doctor, was like, y'all are doing what right?

652
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: Why would that be an appropriate thing to do? I

653
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: don't understand, highly problematic. Yeah, and again not that long ago.

654
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: I know, not that long ago. And so these two

655
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: folks team up and they're like, all right, we need

656
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: funding for a ton of these clinics. And President Lyndon Johnson,

657
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: which is if you had asked me three weeks ago

658
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: before I wrote the script, hey, when was Lyndon Johnson President? Again,

659
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: I would have been like and giving me a multiple

660
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: choice and been like, eighteen twenty two or like nineteen

661
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: sixty seven. I would have been like, man, I don't know.

662
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: It's like I was before I had kids, where every

663
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: kid seemed like they were twelve, whether or not they

664
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: were like two or nineteen.

665
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: Totally totally. You've been twelve for five years now, right, Yeah, yeah, totally,

666
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: like I'm old enough to drink.

667
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: Oh fuck.

668
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: So President Lindon Johnson was president, and he was doing

669
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: his War on Poverty thing, and there was some funding around.

670
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: So the pair got the Office of Economic Opportunity to

671
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: fund two community health centers. One was started in a

672
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: housing project in Boston in December nineteen sixty five, while

673
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: the next one was opened in Mount Bayou in the

674
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: heart of Mississippi in nineteen sixty six. Some people are

675
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: being left out of the story. We've got our two

676
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: white men, but in the photo showing the building of

677
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: the Mount Bayou Clinic, you've got Jack Gieger kneeling next

678
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: to a black doctor named doctor John Hatch. But that

679
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: doesn't make me mad at Jack Geeger. He's not the

680
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 1: one who wrote these histories. It's just I'm just annoyed.

681
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: I need to know more about the people of color

682
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: who are involved in the creation of these The goal

683
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: of these clinics wasn't to just sit around waiting for

684
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: people to get sick and being like, hey, you can

685
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 1: come here for free, which, to be clear, would rule

686
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: and be better. But they wanted to practice what Giger

687
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: called social medicine. The social order and not medical services

688
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: is what determines health. Is the concept of social medicine,

689
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: and it is a viewpoint shared by the Black Panthers

690
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: and many other people coming shortly after era. And this

691
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: is like my favorite part of all of this. Mound Bayou.

692
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: At the clinic, doctors would write prescriptions for food, and

693
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: the governor of Mississippi complained about this practice, like, ah,

694
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: you're making this political.

695
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 2: You know, feeding people.

696
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Jack Eager said, quote, the last time I

697
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: looked in my medical textbooks, they said the specific therapy

698
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: for malnutrition was food.

699
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: That's pretty it's pretty good. It's pretty sharp. My question,

700
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: I suppose, though, is you know, when I write prescriptions

701
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: there for a pharmacy r. Why were they writing these

702
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 2: prescriptions for, like to take to the grocery store.

703
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: I yeah, I wonder what the means by which the

704
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: fulfillment of the food is coming through?

705
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe a symbolic.

706
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: It might be symbolic. They also might have had.

707
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 4: Like a usually have a pantry of some kind.

708
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: I've gone to a lot of clinics that are specifically

709
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: for underserved people as a transperson and someone who didn't

710
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: have a lot of money for a long time, and

711
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: especially when I lived in a vehicle, and a lot

712
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: of those clinics would have their pharmacies in house, and

713
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: so the same place that you get your prescription, you

714
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: then walk around the corner to the pharmacy and they're like, okay,

715
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: five dollars please or whatever. Like, you know, it's there's

716
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of I have been very lucky,

717
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: mostly because the community health movement. I've been very lucky

718
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: a various points in my life that a prescription from

719
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: a certain type of doctor means free whatever the thing is,

720
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: you know. And these clinics worked, and the movement grew,

721
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: and now there are more than a thousand of these

722
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: community health centers around the country serving twenty eight million

723
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: people as of twenty twenty. I didn't find specifically about

724
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: their funding being a lot of trouble right now, but

725
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: I suspect their funding is in trouble right now. But Meanwhile,

726
00:36:54,360 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: MCCHR keeps going just like the well, not really necessarily

727
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: the products themselves, I don't know how long they last,

728
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: but the concept of interrupting entertainment to advertise things that

729
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: will go on forever, forever beautiful, and we're back. So

730
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: MCR keeps on going. It doesn't get subsumed by the

731
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: Community Health Center movement that kind of splits off separately,

732
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: and the Street Medic Collective, the Medical Presence Project help

733
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: treat people. What gets called Bloody Sunday, probably the like

734
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: fifth or sixth thing I've covered on this show is

735
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: called Bloody Sunday when Martin Luther King's march from Selma

736
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: to Montgomery was attacked by police who hospitalized more than

737
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: one hundred people. And it's funny because like I did

738
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: grow up like in the American you know, public school system.

739
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: I did learn during the Civil Rights movement that the

740
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: cops attacked a lot of people with like hoses and

741
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: dogs and stuff like that. It's still just like hard

742
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: to conceptualize from that being like, oh, yeah, and then

743
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: there's a big peaceful march and a hundred people were hospitalized.

744
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the one on the bridge, right, the

745
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 2: Edmund I Caridge, that famous picture with the civil rights

746
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: leader in Selma, Alabama. Right, this is that I feel

747
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: like they made a movie about this that I'd never

748
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: watched but probably should have.

749
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: I think that. I mean, you know, I'm double checking. Yeah,

750
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: I had to double check just now, but yes, a

751
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: lot of the famous pictures around this include a bridge.

752
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 2: I remember because of John Lewis. Sorry, total digression of

753
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 2: my back.

754
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's that's the violence that you know, people

755
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 1: had to go and try and care for. Tom Hayden,

756
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: a former member of the Students for a Democratic Society,

757
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: a radical group that we've covered a couple of times,

758
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: told Bostonia Magazine, quote, I remember cleaning a head wound

759
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: and applying a butterfly bandage to the head of a

760
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: minister who was clubbed by the police seeking to arrest him.

761
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: There were thousands of such cases. The need has continued

762
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: ever since, and part of this street metic stuff grew

763
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: out of a need of having an option other than hospitals,

764
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: because cops would go from the protests to the hospitals

765
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: to arrest everyone who would. Well, if you suffer police violence,

766
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: you were at the protest, and you're guilty right right.

767
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: I remember being in Greece at one point and the

768
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: anarchist doctors were preventing the police from entering the hospital

769
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: to arrest the immigrants who they had beaten up. Oh no,

770
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: is the hunger striking, Like immigrants were hunger striking and

771
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: then getting so sick that they ended up in the hospital,

772
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 1: and then the police would come and try and arrest

773
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: people there. Also, the police would come after protests and

774
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: do the same thing, try to find the people that

775
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: beat up and arrest them. And there was like a

776
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: strong culture there of doctors who are like, no, no,

777
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: you can't come in here and do this. Just terrifying.

778
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: And I don't know, it's an interesting dynamic between er

779
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: doctors because it's traditional er doctors that are faced with

780
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: the front facing of the police, you know, in the

781
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 2: medical community for the most part, and there's an interesting

782
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 2: dynamic where you know, they'll work together, they will oftentimes

783
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 2: be brought somebody, or they'll take care of the police

784
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 2: themselves when they come in. But then there is this

785
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: tension between what the doctors want to do for the

786
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 2: patient or what the police want for that patient. And

787
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 2: still like every now and then you'll see like an

788
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: er doctor get like arrested because they won't comply with

789
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: some requests from the police regarding a patient that's been

790
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 2: brought in for them. So it is interesting that that

791
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: dynamic still exists. It's also this time, and I'm sure

792
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: this was happening at this time. This is when tear

793
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: gas was first being used in the United States, I think,

794
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 2: and it was against protesters in these civil rights marches

795
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: in the sixties mid sixties, So this is when tear gas,

796
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 2: which is still an issue, was first being used.

797
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: That makes sense. I can't remember enough of the history.

798
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: I've written the history of tear gas before, so frustrated

799
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: about like I know some of I want to say

800
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: that they used it at the that Veterans March after

801
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: World War Two, when all the veterans were like, how

802
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: come you never paid us in marching on Washington. But

803
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: I actually could be wrong about that, and absolutely they

804
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: were using it like crazy here, and that's I think

805
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: war widespread use came, or if not the first time used.

806
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: Sorry I'm being fantic about a thing I don't remember

807
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:23,479
Speaker 1: very well.

808
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: No, they did have it, I mean, tear gas was

809
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: around it. It was actually first in World War One,

810
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: it was the first time, like it was developed, so

811
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: they had it by then, so I would not be surprised.

812
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 2: And we did an episode not too long ago on

813
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: you know, Street Medics and learned a little bit about it,

814
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 2: and the Philadelphia police officers were the first people apparently

815
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 2: to test it. Oh there was like they was there.

816
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: But then it was really commonly used in the sixties

817
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: here in the US by the police.

818
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: That makes total sense. Yeah, and it's awful, it's bad.

819
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: It very rarely.

820
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: There's all these differences between how tear gas is asibly

821
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: supposed to be used for crowd control, which is kind

822
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: of around like creating like areas that they don't want

823
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 1: the protesters to be in, and like controlling the movement

824
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: of protesters, like that's the ostensible purpose of it. Yeah,

825
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 1: and instead they just use as a tool of violence,

826
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: disruption and to create chaotic situations that they can then

827
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: come in and take care of the way that they

828
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: want to. I have no bias. I am completely unbiased

829
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: observed of these things. And the MCCHR members actually had

830
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: their own level of biases. Well almost all of them

831
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: were biased in favor of these protest movements. But they

832
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: range from progressive to radical, and they started getting involved,

833
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: like members of MCCHR started getting involved in the late

834
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: sixties vibe of healthcare, which is to say, these are

835
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: some of the people who were doing the work that

836
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 1: we've covered so many times on this show, like providing

837
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: abortion services before Roe v Wade, although that's very subtext.

838
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: It's like we're helping negotiate bodily autonomy or whatever. Is

839
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: like the way it's always framed, you know, right. And

840
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: they also teamed up with all sorts of new left groups,

841
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: most famously the Black Panthers, but there are a lot

842
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: of other groups doing these sorts of things of setting

843
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: up like opening and staffing free clinics. Two of the

844
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: main trainers that get named in the History of Street Medicking,

845
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: which is really starting to build at this point this

846
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: culture is Anne Hirshman, who he mentioned briefly before, who's

847
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: a nurse practitioner who was part of the Medical Presence Project.

848
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: And then this guy Ron Doc Rosen, who was a

849
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine and like a kung fu

850
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: guy with the last name of Rosen. Yeah, yeah, no

851
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: white man, yeah, and he is interesting, I mean, he

852
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: sounds like you'd be kind of an interesting wing nut.

853
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: He has since passed from this world, but I know

854
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: people who are trained by him actually and have really

855
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: positive things to say about him. What happens is she

856
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: teaches him how to medic at a protest, and in exchange,

857
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: he teaches her kung fu. They and others got together

858
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: and built the curriculum that was used to expand the movement,

859
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: because this is basically where street medicking stops being just hey,

860
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: are you a medical professional, come help out right, and

861
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: instead becomes the street medic culture is a culture of

862
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: people who go through a fairly intensive training curriculum but

863
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: are not necessarily coming from a medical background. And we'll

864
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: actually talk about more later. There's like, if you are

865
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: coming from a medical background, you can't just show up

866
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: and be like, I'm a doctor. I want to be

867
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: a street medic you still have to actually go to

868
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: a bridge training that says like, look, we know you

869
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: know a lot more medical shit than most of us,

870
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 1: but there's some stuff specifically around street protest medicine, yeah

871
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: for sure, and and in doc some of the first

872
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: stuff they go to well, actually they've been going to

873
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: things for years, but fairly young in this they end

874
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: up helping the American Indian Movement and the occupation of

875
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: the town of Wounded Knee in South Dakota, which is

876
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: something I've covered before in the show Oh Lord, I

877
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 1: didn't write the year in early seventies, and this means

878
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: that and cared for a man who'd been shot in

879
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: the head by federal troops who later died. Doc was

880
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: shot in the arm by federal troops while doing this stuff.

881
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: It's really interesting because you get this kind of awful

882
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: full circle where like, for most of forty or so years,

883
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: street medic stuff didn't really involve gunshots, you know, but

884
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: a lot of the people who set up the original

885
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: curriculum were people who had direct and personal experience both

886
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 1: caring for and receiving lethal violence from the state.

887
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me when you mentioned like his background

888
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 2: like kung fu, and I think you said like traditional

889
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 2: Chinese medicine. I wonder what that meant. Was he like

890
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 2: acupuncture herbs?

891
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: Like what was he he was an acupuncturist. I don't

892
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: know enough about traditional Chinese medicine. I'm under the impression

893
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: that under that name it is a specific school of

894
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: medicine that is not formally considered by the American I'm

895
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: not trying to opine about it. That's where I'm at.

896
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: But he is an acupuncturist as well. And just because

897
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: these people somehow tie together, every topic happens on this show.

898
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: Anne was literally walking past the stone Wall in where

899
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: the Stonewall riots happened in nineteen sixty nine with her

900
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: medic pack on because she carried her pack on her

901
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: at all times, and then was at the stone Wall

902
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: protests helping out for thirty eight hours.

903
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 5: Oh wow.

904
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: Street medics are like that. They're always the very few

905
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 2: I know are always carrying stuff. Yeah. I mean most

906
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 2: of us should carry narcan anyways, right, but they always

907
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 2: have stuff with them. Yeah, good friends to have around,

908
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 2: I know.

909
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,439
Speaker 1: It's always very useful that you're like, oh, I wish

910
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: I had a like street medic has one on them, right.

911
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: It's funny I think about the stuff that doesn't doesn't

912
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: come with like cars, where I'm like, like, I keep

913
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,720
Speaker 1: an eyepack in my car, like a fairly like stop

914
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: the bleed medical kit in my car because I'm like,

915
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: I'm much more likely to be involved in or witness

916
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: a car accident than a shooting.

917
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we all are.

918
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like, you know, I think people should learn

919
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: some of these skills, even if they don't become experts

920
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: in them. But then obviously it gets into the do

921
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: no harm thing, where if it's something that's beyond your

922
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: capability and you might cause harm by trying to help them,

923
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: you probably you fucking shouldn't.

924
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's a tough line, but I do agree.

925
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 2: I feel like we could all use a little bit

926
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: more medical literacy, and we could all use some basic

927
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: medical knowledge regarding simple things like the bleed. Yeah, the

928
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 2: like concussion, head injuries, bleeds, stuff like that we can

929
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,959
Speaker 2: see pretty commonly out and about in the real world.

930
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally kind I remember one time walking by. I

931
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: have a modicum of emergency medicine experience from protests and

932
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, backwoods like tree sitting type stuff, and someone

933
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: had taken a really bad fall on some ice and

934
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: kind of couldn't move and like just trying to get

935
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: people to like be like, hey, don't move us back

936
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: unsupported until medical care gets here. They're like, well, he's

937
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: in the street, and I'm like, let's block traffic, you know, right,

938
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: But because I was this like dirty punkin everyone ignored me. Yeah,

939
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: it was so frustrating that they Anyway, whatever this is

940
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: besides the point, I know.

941
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 2: That's an excellent point. It's a good reminder, don't move

942
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 2: those people if you can at all help.

943
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, because the level of medical care that I

944
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: think most listeners should learn is the level of don't

945
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: move the person, not the level of be the one

946
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 1: who knows how to move the person, right, you know, right, Yeah,

947
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: A simple level of medicine is stop bleeding and don't

948
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: make someone's backwards by moving them, you know.

949
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

950
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: Anyway, you have these street medics, they're starting to exist.

951
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 1: You have this other collective, the Flying Black Medics, who

952
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: flew from Chicago to Cairo, Illinois. I don't know why

953
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: they didn't drive, and.

954
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I might have.

955
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: Actually there's a chance they drove there. And then I

956
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: messed up my script because Flying Black Medics seemed like

957
00:48:59,239 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: they'd be flying.

958
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 2: It's branding, what are you going to do? That's how

959
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: it was designed.

960
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was an uprising there in nineteen seventy and

961
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: the Flying Black Medics from Chicago set up a clinic

962
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 1: in the basement of an African Methodist Episcopal Church and

963
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: treated people during it very cool.

964
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a five and a half hour drive,

965
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 3: so I don't know if they're flying there.

966
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, that's just around the well. No, I

967
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: will drive all the way across the country by or

968
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: I will fly personally.

969
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 4: But you and I both have the same opinion about that.

970
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is funny tho, because flying was probably like

971
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: more relaxing in the sixties than it is now.

972
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 5: Yeah.

973
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, smoking cigarettes and your PanAm flying and having some

974
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 2: leg room, right, playing piano, like the piano lounges in

975
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 2: the plane.

976
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I want that.

977
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 4: They are on opposite sides at the stage.

978
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: But you know, okay, most of the specific named groups

979
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: of the sixties, like the pan Anthers and then Young

980
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: Lords and all of these different groups lasted until about

981
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 1: the mid to late seventies, and in that way, MCCHR

982
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: was pretty standard. In this case. What happened is that

983
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: the group worked really really hard. They moved into political

984
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: pressuring to try and get single payer public health care.

985
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: That was like everything. They were like, this is the

986
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: ultimate thing that we are trying to accomplish with this movement.

987
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: Their slogan, which continues in use today. I think this

988
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: is the origin of this slogan, which is funny because

989
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: it don't seem like a slogan. She seems like a

990
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: thing that's true. Healthcare is a human right.

991
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, seems like it should have been around from

992
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 2: the beginning. Yeah, like Socrates or Hippocrates. I'm sorry Hippocrates time.

993
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's interesting that it popped up around then.

994
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know who teamed up with private health.

995
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: This isn't an ad pivot. You know who teamed up

996
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: to private health insurance and drug manufacturers to make sure

997
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: that Congress would pass no such terrible communist laws as

998
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: making sure that people can see doctors.

999
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say blue shield the.

1000
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: American Medical Association.

1001
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 2: There we go. They're going to make their way back

1002
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 2: into this. Yeah.

1003
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: So by the end of the seventies, the Medical Committee

1004
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: for Human Rights is under decline and they ended completely

1005
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: under Reagan. In the eighties, Jack Geeger, one of the

1006
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: people who you know, went to South Africa and studied

1007
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: there and then came back and he kept going on

1008
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: practicing social medicine and worked with two different groups that

1009
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 1: won the Nobel Peace Prize, which is like pretty I

1010
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 1: will probably never win any Nobel prizes. And I also

1011
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: like that it's even framed as like worked with two

1012
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: groups that won it, instead of being like Jack Gager

1013
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: got the prize. You know, in nineteen eighty five it

1014
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: went to the Physicians for Social Responsibility, which was doctors

1015
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: trying to stop the arms race, and then in nineteen

1016
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: ninety seven it went to Physicians for Human Rights, which

1017
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: was working to ban land mines. In twenty twelve, he

1018
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: was talking about his work about how he'd interviewed Palestinian

1019
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: torture victims in the West Bank. He was around eighty

1020
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: or something at that point. Wow, twenty sixteen, sick as

1021
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 1: hell himself. He wrote about how people needed to fight

1022
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: for clean water in Flint, Michigan. And he died in

1023
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty at ninety five years old. Right fucking good run. Yeah,

1024
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: we had all hope to live as long and get

1025
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 1: as much done. And in part two we'll talk about

1026
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: street medics. I guess we talked about him some here.

1027
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: Yay, But this is a great set of the groundwork

1028
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 2: for what we see now. Fantastic.

1029
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: When I started this, I was like, I actually thought

1030
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: energy and street medics were going to have to share

1031
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: a week and then I'm like, very quickly learned that no,

1032
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: all of them tie into all of this stuff. I

1033
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: love that the same group that came together to be like, hey,

1034
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 1: there should be doctors at the March on Washington is

1035
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: how we get community health centers and how we get

1036
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: street medics. Like I just I love that stuff.

1037
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:55,919
Speaker 2: That's very cool, very cool.

1038
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, you got anything you want to plug here

1039
00:52:58,800 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: at the end.

1040
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 2: I do. First of all, I want to plug community

1041
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 2: health centers because as a doctor, when you're in college

1042
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 2: and you're first interested in the world of medicine, a

1043
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 2: big part of where you get introduced to these things

1044
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 2: is you volunteer at community health centers. That's what I

1045
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 2: did when I was at Berkeley. I volunteered at the

1046
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: community health centers there. When I was a medical student,

1047
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 2: I also volunteered at those health centers near my medical centers.

1048
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 2: So it's a big part of training physicians. Is a

1049
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 2: great way to give back. And outside of that, you

1050
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 2: should also listen to my podcast it's called The House

1051
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 2: of Pod. You will hear amazing fun guests like Margaret

1052
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 2: and Sophie and more people that you love from this

1053
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 2: whole world here, and we talk about fun stuff in

1054
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 2: the world of science and medicine and healthcare, and we

1055
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: make it a little bit more approachable, a little bit

1056
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 2: less scary, I think, and as fun as certain topics

1057
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 2: like how gun laws have affected pediatric mortality. We make

1058
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 2: it as fun as I think that can possibly be.

1059
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: So.

1060
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 2: Anyways, check us out.

1061
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: I want to listen to that episode.

1062
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, yeah, it's an important way. Check us out

1063
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: anywhere you get podcasts.

1064
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I want to plug. I don't know I

1065
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: have a substack.

1066
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 5: I don't know.

1067
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 1: You all probably already knew that I have some books

1068
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 1: that came out. You also probably recognize that Weird Little Guys.

1069
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: Go listen to Weird Little Guys by Molly Conger. It

1070
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: is like if this show wasn't said about cool people,

1071
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: it was about little Nightmare Gremlin nazis not cool. Yeah,

1072
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: uncool people doing uncool stuff. That was actually the original

1073
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: pitch for Weird Little Guys. But I put my foot down.

1074
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: I said that infringes on the copyright that I definitely

1075
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 1: personally own and it's totally not owned by That's right anyway, whatever,

1076
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 1: Sofia guy thing, you want to plug.

1077
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 3: Listen to it could happen years Friday episodes called Executive Disorder. Well,

1078
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 3: the White House Weekly, we cover this week's news in

1079
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 3: a didestable way.

1080
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 2: Is good.

1081
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: It is the most I listen to a lot of

1082
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: it could happen here, but that's the one I always

1083
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: listen to.

1084
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 3: They keep letting me get away with having our shows

1085
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 3: have puns in the title, and it makes me happy.

1086
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: What I like is watching Robert get really excited about

1087
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: the pun about ed which is funny though because of

1088
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: Edie in my mind sense for eating disorders. So whenever

1089
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 1: they make that joke, I don't think of erectil. This

1090
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 1: function is the first thing I think, but Robert does, right,

1091
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: And then watching gehre be sort of frustrated by Robert

1092
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: making that joke. Yeah, that's my favorite part of it

1093
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: every week because it happens every week.

1094
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 4: You just described my work environment.

1095
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: It's the little joy, yes that you have to find

1096
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 2: ye in your workplace, you know.

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00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, see you all Wednesday.

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00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 4: Bye.

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00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 3: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

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00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1101
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 3: visit our website fool Zonemedia dot com, or check us

1102
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 3: out on the iHeartRadio app, app a podcast, or wherever

1103
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 3: you get your podcasts.