WEBVTT - The Puritans in America

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and Chuck's here

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<v Speaker 1>and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you should know.

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<v Speaker 1>You think that you every time, doesn't it?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Sure? After sixteen years it didn't think much for me.

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<v Speaker 2>Didn't get a giggle from you.

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<v Speaker 1>That's good. I like it because it should have gone

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<v Speaker 1>the opposite.

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<v Speaker 2>The giggle in me from me because of you, I

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<v Speaker 2>put a giggle in you. Oh ooh, we about that fresh.

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<v Speaker 1>Speaking of fresh, Chuck, you probably would not have just

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<v Speaker 1>said that were you not born an American.

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<v Speaker 3>Huh.

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<v Speaker 1>It was America not founded by essentially the most radical element,

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<v Speaker 1>extremist element that England had to offer at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, nice work, look at you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks. That's all we need to say about their backstory.

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<v Speaker 2>Jerk, Well, I can sum it up in three sentences.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's hear what you got.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we're talking about Puritanism and getting into just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>English puritanism is a a big ball of wax, very detailed,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's very easy to get in the weeds. We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to concentrate more on the Puritans, or at least

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<v Speaker 2>my charge to Olivia. I was like, you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was a Massachusetts at the time when

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<v Speaker 2>we were doing our show in Medford, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>what's up with this place, Massachusetts? And what was up

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<v Speaker 2>with the Puritans?

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<v Speaker 1>Why, like Pilgrims.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we're not going to go like super into

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<v Speaker 2>detail about their formation, but we will talk a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit about that right now. And my first sentence and

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<v Speaker 2>then you can just take over is who's a pure

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<v Speaker 2>the Puritans were And who they were was a group

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<v Speaker 2>of extreme, far extreme Protestants, and it was a movement

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<v Speaker 2>that came out of the fact that they were like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>England's been reformed the Church of England. We don't want

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<v Speaker 2>any sniff of Catholicism around anymore. So we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>go hard, hard, toward the most extreme version of Protestantism

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<v Speaker 2>that you could imagine.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you can make a case that the Puritans

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<v Speaker 1>would not have existed had England not broken with the

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<v Speaker 1>Catholic Church informed its own Church of England. Right, But

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<v Speaker 1>these people are like, no, like, we're not going far enough.

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<v Speaker 1>We need to just be completely off the rolls, make

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<v Speaker 1>our own thing. And like you said, like there was

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<v Speaker 1>this is a thick, thick period of English history from

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<v Speaker 1>like the fifteen thirties to the sixteen sixties something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Like a lot happened during that time, and the Puritans,

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<v Speaker 1>like they either responded to it or were shaped by

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<v Speaker 1>it in some way, shape or form. But you can

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<v Speaker 1>kind of sum the whole thing up is that there

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<v Speaker 1>was a lot of changing of hands of power from

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<v Speaker 1>monarchs to people who staged coups, and sometimes the Puritans

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<v Speaker 1>were deeply persecuted, sometimes brutally. Other times they were the

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<v Speaker 1>ones in charge and they would brutalize other people. And

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<v Speaker 1>it was enough that it shook loose some of the

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<v Speaker 1>more radical groups of Puritans, of Puritans who either wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to reform the Anglican Church to be more Puritan, or

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<v Speaker 1>decided the Anglican Church couldn't be reformed and that they

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<v Speaker 1>should go off and form their own mini churches. It's

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<v Speaker 1>called congregationalism. So the upshot is things were just in

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<v Speaker 1>such upheaval that it shook some groups loose. Some moved

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<v Speaker 1>to Holland, and some ended up moving to North America

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<v Speaker 1>because stuff was just so crazy back in England at

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<v Speaker 1>the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were basically like, hey, we can go over there.

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<v Speaker 2>This was in sixteen oh eight, and it was a

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<v Speaker 2>group of separatists. You were talking about these Congregationalists, they

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<v Speaker 2>were separatists. They wanted to sort of branch off. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>if you saw the movie The Vivich, remember that one. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's kind of what we're talking about. These people that

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<v Speaker 2>set up their own shops and were like, hey, we

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<v Speaker 2>can just go out here on our own and be

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<v Speaker 2>as radically Protestant as we can be, because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we're based in Calvinism. We believe in predestination. We think

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<v Speaker 2>that there are chosen few that are designated to go

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<v Speaker 2>to heaven, and you're either one of those people or

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<v Speaker 2>you're not. There's really nothing you can do about that.

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<v Speaker 2>And we've gotten ministers that are going to decide if

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<v Speaker 2>you've gone through a real religious conversion or not. And

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<v Speaker 2>the other thing we should point out too, is that

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<v Speaker 2>the actual term puritan that didn't come along until the

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen sixties, and it was like an insult, right it was.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw it described as I think in the New

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<v Speaker 1>World Encyclopedia that you could you could considered calling somebody

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<v Speaker 1>like uptight or high strung, or like just a worry

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<v Speaker 1>ward or something today. That's kind of what they were

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<v Speaker 1>calling Puritans back then. The Puritans call themselves sints if

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<v Speaker 1>that says enough to you about what they thought about themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>But Puritan was kind of a put down because the people,

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<v Speaker 1>the other people in the Anglican Church who were like,

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<v Speaker 1>things are fine, you guys are really nitpicking here. You're

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<v Speaker 1>up in arms about some really dumb stuff like people

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<v Speaker 1>burning incense during church services, like just stuff that doesn't matter,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Puritans were like, it does matter because that

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<v Speaker 1>is Satan's way of corrupting us.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's funny too. One of the other things

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<v Speaker 2>that keeps coming up, it seems like they really got

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<v Speaker 2>stuck on, was like can you talk to God directly?

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<v Speaker 2>Can you pray or not? Or do you have to

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<v Speaker 2>go through official channels of people higher up in this religion. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And it seemed like that was a fight, like on

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<v Speaker 2>and off again for a long time, as people saying like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>we think you can, like you don't need to be special,

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<v Speaker 2>you can pray and talk to God, and other people

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<v Speaker 2>are like, no, that splasts with me, I know.

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<v Speaker 1>And you just touched on something that's kind of at

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<v Speaker 1>the heart like this was the great Puritan struggle because

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<v Speaker 1>one of the reasons for breaking with the Church and

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<v Speaker 1>getting as far away from is because the Church was like,

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<v Speaker 1>to get through God, you go through us, Priest, Bishop,

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<v Speaker 1>cardinal Pope, like, that's the way you go to get

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<v Speaker 1>to God. You can't do it yourself. You need the church,

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<v Speaker 1>and by the way, give us a bunch of money.

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<v Speaker 1>And the Puritans hated that. So they did believe that

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<v Speaker 1>like a congregation could take care of itself, and that

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<v Speaker 1>the minister could help people. But really you just needed

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<v Speaker 1>to know what it said in the Bible and live

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<v Speaker 1>your life accordingly and hope that you were one of

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<v Speaker 1>the saved who were going to make it into heaven.

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<v Speaker 1>That was their whole way. Yet they were also a

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<v Speaker 1>deeply elitist group, where the wealthier you were, the more

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<v Speaker 1>that meant you were favored by God, and so by association,

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<v Speaker 1>if you were poor, were poverty stricken, yeah, that must

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<v Speaker 1>mean you had some sort of moral failing, right, And

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<v Speaker 1>if that's not essentially the basis of America till today,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's really funny, well not funny, it's sad, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know what.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I know exactly what to me.

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<v Speaker 2>So I mentioned the group of separatists that in sixteen

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<v Speaker 2>oh eight they came from a village in Yorkshire called Screwby.

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned they moved to Holland, and then about twelve

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<v Speaker 2>years later a little more than one hundred of them

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<v Speaker 2>went to Plymouth Rock and founded that colony here in

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<v Speaker 2>North America. And again with the idea they're going to

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<v Speaker 2>create this great community where they can be English, they

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<v Speaker 2>don't have to compromise what they believe in. These were

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<v Speaker 2>the people in the Mayflower who a lot of them died.

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<v Speaker 2>They had that first Thanksgiving. I didn't have Christmas though, right.

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<v Speaker 1>No, the Puritans hated Christmas.

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<v Speaker 2>They did.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't like I always thought it was because I

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<v Speaker 1>saw somebody explain it that it's not in the Bible.

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<v Speaker 1>If it wasn't in the Bible, it was Satanic, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And so of course they didn't mention Christmas in the Bible.

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<v Speaker 1>But I also saw a more reasonable explanation is that

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<v Speaker 1>I think we talked about this Christmas at the time

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<v Speaker 1>was a drunken, rabble rousing occasion where almost like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Halloween can get to be like today. That's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>what Christmas was like, so, of course they hated Christmas.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because no one drinks around Christmas now.

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<v Speaker 1>No everybody observes it puritanically.

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<v Speaker 2>In sixteen thirty, if we jump ahead just a little bit,

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<v Speaker 2>this is when and this is the sort of the

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<v Speaker 2>money stuff I was after. This is when the Massachusetts

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<v Speaker 2>Bay Colony was founded. It was another group from England

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<v Speaker 2>led by a guy named John Winthrop, who was kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a well heeled attorney. He was a gentry member,

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<v Speaker 2>which means he was sort of just below nobility, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know, very highly respected class of people, which you know,

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<v Speaker 2>as you'll see, comes like you were saying, comes to

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<v Speaker 2>be thing that the Puritans were known for. And when

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<v Speaker 2>we think about Puritans in this country generally, we're thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about the people that came over with John Winthrop the

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<v Speaker 2>founding of Massachusetts, not the Pilgrims, not separatists, because they

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<v Speaker 2>weren't like, hey, we don't want anything to do with

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<v Speaker 2>the Church of England, but they were still Congregationalists.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, yes, the Puritans and the Pilgrims were for

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<v Speaker 1>all intentsive purposes, separate groups. They lived separately. They were

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<v Speaker 1>both They were both reformists, Calvinists who wanted the Anglican

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<v Speaker 1>Church to either get further away from Catholicism or split

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<v Speaker 1>from the Anglican Church altogether. So the best way the

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<v Speaker 1>rule thumb to understand both groups is the Pilgrims would

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<v Speaker 1>have found the Puritans ungodly and satan like. That's how

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<v Speaker 1>radical the Pilgrims were. The most radical of all of

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<v Speaker 1>the separatists, or of all of the reformists of the

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<v Speaker 1>Anglican Church. Ts were definitely they would look down on

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<v Speaker 1>us today. The Pilgrims would have just run in terror

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<v Speaker 1>if they saw any of us today. The pure Tins

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<v Speaker 1>would just look down on us, and they would recognize

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<v Speaker 1>it themselves in us, I think.

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<v Speaker 2>A little right too. Yeah, totally, yeah, And we'll get

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<v Speaker 2>to some of that a little bit later. But the

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<v Speaker 2>other thing is that they had a lot more money

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<v Speaker 2>than the Pilgrims did. They had a lot more financing

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<v Speaker 2>and resources. There were also about ten times as many,

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<v Speaker 2>think about a thousand people came over in that first group,

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<v Speaker 2>and they weren't they were just looking to set up

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<v Speaker 2>an idealize society over there. They weren't like fleeing England

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<v Speaker 2>or anything. But they were also they didn't want like

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<v Speaker 2>freedom of religion. At the same time, they were still

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<v Speaker 2>like super puritanical. But Winthrop, you know, you've heard the

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<v Speaker 2>very famous sermon about the colony being the city on

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<v Speaker 2>the hill. That was from Winthrop when he was talking about,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, metaphorically, we're who everyone's going to look up to.

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<v Speaker 2>So we got to set a good example and lead

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<v Speaker 2>really godlike lives.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we don't want this thing to fail because everybody's

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<v Speaker 1>watching us, so better act like Puritans essentially exactly. And

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<v Speaker 1>one of the ways they did that also is that

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<v Speaker 1>they would all keep a close eye on one another.

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<v Speaker 1>Because there's one other thing to to understand about the Puritans.

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<v Speaker 1>They believed, quite literally, Satan was walking among us and

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<v Speaker 1>took an active interest in each individual's vices, desires, all

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<v Speaker 1>that stuff. And if you were weak, if you didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have your guard up at all times and live a

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<v Speaker 1>very godly life, you could be corrupted and God would

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<v Speaker 1>kill you and send your send your soul to hell.

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<v Speaker 1>That was the stakes of what these Puritans were living

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<v Speaker 1>with on a daily basis. So the best way to

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<v Speaker 1>root out Satan before he can really get a foothold

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<v Speaker 1>in a colony is to watch everybody down to the

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<v Speaker 1>family level. Family members would watch each other for signs

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<v Speaker 1>that Satan was corrupting them.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's the vivit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah exactly. That definitely is portrayed in that for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, don't turn your back on that. Billy goat.

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<v Speaker 1>Fun time, Joseph for something.

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<v Speaker 2>No, what was it? Something black, Freddie Fosblayer, fun time Black,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, something like that. These are the moments

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<v Speaker 2>where people are screaming at it's in their cars or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently it's anecdotally. What do you mean, don't you remember?

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<v Speaker 1>I think there was a listener mail that Kate, you

0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.679
<v Speaker 1>were trying to think of a word, and it was anecdotal.

0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh yeah, yeah, I gotcha. I think maybe before

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.679
<v Speaker 2>we break, we'll just say this that we also have

0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.520
<v Speaker 2>to talk about the finances of this. It was it

0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:43.320
<v Speaker 2>was a Puritanical group and it was all about religion,

0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:45.920
<v Speaker 2>but they also had to make money. So technically the

0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.439
<v Speaker 2>colony was founded by a company, the Massachusetts Bay Company,

0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:54.360
<v Speaker 2>which was a stock venture that traded fur. They traded fish,

0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.040
<v Speaker 2>and they had shareholders and it was you know, it

0:12:58.080 --> 0:12:58.720
<v Speaker 2>was a business.

0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.439
<v Speaker 1>It was, but this is how the Puritans retained control

0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:07.520
<v Speaker 1>of it. The joint owners, the joint stockholders of that

0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.839
<v Speaker 1>company were the ones who voted on who ran things

0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.439
<v Speaker 1>in the colony. But it just so happens that the

0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.160
<v Speaker 1>owners of the stock were exclusively people who lived in

0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.840
<v Speaker 1>that colony. All of those people were Puritans, and so

0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.640
<v Speaker 1>they were able to keep the dream alive of this

0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.959
<v Speaker 1>city on a hill because they held complete power over

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.120
<v Speaker 1>this company and all of its doings.

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were the voting shareholders.

0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it is important to remember too they ran

0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 1>a successful company. Because we're elitist. They were elitist religious people.

0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:44.520
<v Speaker 1>It's very it's I want to say it's bizarre, but

0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.160
<v Speaker 1>it's not at all bizarre. It's very common, I think.

0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Actually, yeah, all right, so let's take that break and

0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.960
<v Speaker 2>we'll talk about what life was like there in Massachusetts

0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:57.080
<v Speaker 2>early on, right after this.

0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:28.520
<v Speaker 1>So when the people first arrived in Massachusetts, when the

0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.960
<v Speaker 1>settlers that were led by John Winthrop, they hit Salem first,

0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.320
<v Speaker 1>they met with some people who had kind of spread

0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.040
<v Speaker 1>out from Plymouth, and they were like, you guys are

0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.600
<v Speaker 1>a little too high strung even for us, So we're

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.240
<v Speaker 1>gonna go found Boston, which apparently is named after a

0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.200
<v Speaker 1>town in Lincolnshire, in England, where a lot of the

0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.480
<v Speaker 1>people were from, and Winthrop was. They were like, you're

0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 1>the governor. You're the guy you let us over here.

0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.040
<v Speaker 1>You gave a great lay sermon. No one's ever heard

0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.280
<v Speaker 1>anything better than what you just said. In fact, so

0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.680
<v Speaker 1>why don't you become governor? And he kept getting elected

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.360
<v Speaker 1>and re elected and reelected because they had annual elections.

0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.480
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't every like two or four years, but even

0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.200
<v Speaker 1>still he was like, hey, guys, I think somebody else

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.440
<v Speaker 1>should take a turn too. I don't want to accidentally

0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.800
<v Speaker 1>become king of the Massachusetts Bay Company, you know.

0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which was I don't know, maybe a little bit surprising.

0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.560
<v Speaker 1>It was. But another thing that's surprising too is these

0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:28.280
<v Speaker 1>people are immediately removed from England, where there is a

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 1>monarch in charge, the king, that has absolute authority over

0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 1>there in their lives, and these guys are holding annual

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:40.000
<v Speaker 1>elections for their leader who directly helps them run their

0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.920
<v Speaker 1>own town. That's bizarre. But that's also the seating of

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 1>American democracy too.

0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, which I'm sure they it was pretty radical

0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.840
<v Speaker 2>for them at the time. All Right, So they are Massachusetts.

0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:59.120
<v Speaker 2>They're farming, nothing huge, but they're farming, they're fishing, they're

0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.960
<v Speaker 2>milling life, they're building boats and ships. The population is

0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 2>really really growing kind of all over New England at

0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.520
<v Speaker 2>that time, because they just started spreading out. They would

0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:11.920
<v Speaker 2>go found another town, then another town. Let's go to

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Rhode Island, let's go to Maine, and they said, what

0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 2>are those places even They said, well, we'll come up

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.800
<v Speaker 2>with the names later. But follow was in the seaside, lovely. Yeah,

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:24.720
<v Speaker 2>just come this way and if you were a one

0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.000
<v Speaker 2>of the first people there, you were known as a proprietor.

0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 2>You would get a little bit of land. The religion

0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.400
<v Speaker 2>again was still central to all this stuff in every

0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.040
<v Speaker 2>town that they were still you know, laser focused on that.

0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.760
<v Speaker 2>But it was really really growing fast. And one of

0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 2>the reasons was because King Charles the First dissolved parliament

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.400
<v Speaker 2>in sixteen twenty nine. So all these Puritan reformers who

0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.480
<v Speaker 2>were working in England to try and change the state

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.240
<v Speaker 2>of the church there had no like a recourse. They

0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.280
<v Speaker 2>were like, well, we've been kicked out of Parliament, so

0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 2>let's go to this new world, I guess. And about

0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:06.359
<v Speaker 2>twenty thousand of them moved there between sixteen twenty nine

0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.119
<v Speaker 2>and sixteen forty when Parliament got back together.

0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.080
<v Speaker 1>I know, in a decade their numbers grew about twenty

0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 1>four give flux of people. Yeah yeah. And in that

0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.120
<v Speaker 1>twenty year period there was like there a lot happened

0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 1>in England as well. And that was also not just

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.200
<v Speaker 1>the reason why a bunch of Puritans showed up, because

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 1>there was you know, the monarchy was toppled and there

0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.400
<v Speaker 1>was civil war and all that, but that also led

0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 1>to the fleeing essentially from the UK of well it

0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:38.719
<v Speaker 1>was in the UK at the time, but the Scottish,

0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:45.000
<v Speaker 1>the Irish, other English World Puritans, French immigrants, they all

0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.480
<v Speaker 1>showed up and they were like, hey, stuff really off

0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:53.440
<v Speaker 1>chain back in England, and you know what will eventually

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.159
<v Speaker 1>be the UK. So we're going to come here and

0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.399
<v Speaker 1>hang out with you guys, but we're not Puritans, so

0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.600
<v Speaker 1>don't put that stuff on us. You keep your hang

0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:05.800
<v Speaker 1>ups to yourself. And the Puritans kind of scratched their

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.199
<v Speaker 1>van Dyke beards for a second and they said, you

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.439
<v Speaker 1>know what, you look like somebody who could make me

0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot of money. Welcome aboard. And so Massachusetts grew

0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.840
<v Speaker 1>not just spiritually when all of the other Puritans showed up.

0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.919
<v Speaker 1>But economically it really started to make inroads because a

0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 1>lot of labors showed up, a lot of craftsmen showed up,

0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.640
<v Speaker 1>and merchants showed up too, who were like, Hey, I've

0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.840
<v Speaker 1>got connections back in England that can get a stuff

0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.840
<v Speaker 1>we need or who will buy the stuff that we're making,

0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:36.120
<v Speaker 1>and it started to thrive pretty quickly.

0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Around that time, they also scratched their Vandyke beards and said,

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.560
<v Speaker 2>wait a minute, we thought off the chainment that was good.

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 2>I guess just shut up. Don't say anything about that.

0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:49.440
<v Speaker 1>At least I didn't say off the hook. They would

0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.080
<v Speaker 1>have been like, what are you talking.

0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:56.199
<v Speaker 2>Exactly like people remain on hooks. So while this is

0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 2>going on, let's say this is what sixteen thirty six,

0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.120
<v Speaker 2>the colony of Connecticut was founded by a guy named

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.880
<v Speaker 2>John Hooker. He was a pastor and what would later

0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.840
<v Speaker 2>be Cambridge. But he got a commission from the General

0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Court of Massachusetts go found Connecticut. So that happened, and

0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.679
<v Speaker 2>then Rhode Island. There were actually Puritan dissidents that founded

0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:25.159
<v Speaker 2>Rhode Island, and basically every part of New England was

0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.200
<v Speaker 2>founded under some sort of religious pretense, except for New Hampshire,

0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 2>which is kind of interesting I think, like I think

0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:37.080
<v Speaker 2>you can still see remnants of that stuff today and

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:38.119
<v Speaker 2>how New England is.

0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like I think the New Hampshire state license plate

0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:48.600
<v Speaker 1>says Satan's country, right, actually says live free or die.

0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, yeah, there you have it.

0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:56.080
<v Speaker 1>So this whole venture is starting to really kind of cook.

0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.760
<v Speaker 1>Between sixteen thirty and before the sixteen hundreds were out,

0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 1>it just really established itself. They were spreading out so

0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:05.520
<v Speaker 1>much like you said, they were founding new colonies that

0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.960
<v Speaker 1>were seeded from the original Massachusetts Bay colonies. The Pilgrims

0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.959
<v Speaker 1>were like, nobody likes us, No one's joining our ranks.

0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.200
<v Speaker 1>We're actually losing people now. Yeah, we had the first

0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:22.320
<v Speaker 1>murder among Europeans in North America. Here can we come

0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.439
<v Speaker 1>join you? And actually there's a big, big argument in

0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:29.160
<v Speaker 1>a debate and a schism I think in Plymouth who

0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.200
<v Speaker 1>like the practical leaders were like, guys, we're not gonna

0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.880
<v Speaker 1>make it unless we join up with Massachusetts.

0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.280
<v Speaker 1>The other ones were like they're not godly enough. And

0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:39.600
<v Speaker 1>I think the people who thought they weren't godly enough

0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.639
<v Speaker 1>lost out, and so Plymouth was taken into is absorbed

0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.160
<v Speaker 1>into Massachusetts in sixteen ninety one.

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:51.800
<v Speaker 2>That's right. So we talked a little bit about what

0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:53.359
<v Speaker 2>was going on there as far as the kind of

0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.520
<v Speaker 2>things they were doing, fishing and lumbering and farming a

0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:00.360
<v Speaker 2>little bit. But like day to day life, the two

0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.919
<v Speaker 2>most important things were going to church and going to school.

0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.879
<v Speaker 2>If there's one thing we can credit Puritanism with is

0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.639
<v Speaker 2>the fact that they put a lot of weight and

0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:17.400
<v Speaker 2>importance on schooling everybody and making sure everybody could read,

0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:19.600
<v Speaker 2>so everybody could read the Bible.

0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.399
<v Speaker 1>That's another legacy of Puritans that's still around today and

0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:29.120
<v Speaker 1>that's super American. Is public Educationah, like a very extensive

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:35.720
<v Speaker 1>government overseen like educational system. That's what the Puritans set up.

0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:41.200
<v Speaker 1>They actually passed an act, the Old Diluter Satan Act, Yeah,

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.679
<v Speaker 1>of sixteen forty seven, which I looked it up. I

0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.440
<v Speaker 1>couldn't find that it was ever repealed, so it's technically

0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.240
<v Speaker 1>still on the books in Relachusetts. Yeah. But it basically said,

0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.119
<v Speaker 1>if you have a town of fifty families, up to

0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.359
<v Speaker 1>fifty families, you have to hire a school master. That's

0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.480
<v Speaker 1>just law. Now, if you have one hundred families or more,

0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.880
<v Speaker 1>you have to actually build your own grammar school. And

0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.919
<v Speaker 1>if you're the head of household, not only do your

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:08.880
<v Speaker 1>kids have to go to school, you have to make

0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.120
<v Speaker 1>sure that your servants' kids are educated too.

0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.600
<v Speaker 2>That's right, little kids. What would be like, I guess

0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:19.280
<v Speaker 2>sort of kindergarten to first grade. Second grade ed age

0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.840
<v Speaker 2>would go to what was called a dame school. Usually

0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:24.960
<v Speaker 2>an older woman of the community would run that one.

0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Then they had the secondary schools. If you were from

0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:30.720
<v Speaker 2>a wealthier family, you would go there to learn stuff

0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:33.639
<v Speaker 2>to prepare you for more education. And if you're like,

0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.880
<v Speaker 2>what are you talking about more education, this is sixteen

0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:41.280
<v Speaker 2>thirty six, guys. We're talking about a little college called

0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:46.399
<v Speaker 2>Haavid because in sixteen thirty six some leaders in the

0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:50.439
<v Speaker 2>Puritan community established the college to educate the clergy there,

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:54.239
<v Speaker 2>and it was renamed Harvard a few years after that

0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:58.720
<v Speaker 2>after Puritan minister John Harvard, after he said, Hey, I

0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.760
<v Speaker 2>got a lot of land here, I have a valuable estate,

0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:05.000
<v Speaker 2>I have this incredible library. It's all yours, And so

0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:08.480
<v Speaker 2>they named the college Harvard, and eventually that town would

0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 2>become Cambridge.

0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:14.159
<v Speaker 1>Yes, so, yeah, they named it Cambridge because John Harvard

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:15.879
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of the other leaders had gone to

0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.960
<v Speaker 1>school at Cambridge, which was producing clergy as well. So

0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.880
<v Speaker 1>that's pretty interesting. And I've noticed before on Harvard's little

0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:25.280
<v Speaker 1>logo it does say sixteen thirty six, and that's quite

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:28.320
<v Speaker 1>a claim to fame. In the United States, I've noticed

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.440
<v Speaker 1>that not a lot of things go back to sixteen

0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:34.200
<v Speaker 1>thirty six in the US. So hats off to Harvard,

0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:38.840
<v Speaker 1>as they say, as they say in the Dame Schools.

0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Not hats off to Harper. No, led Zeppelin wasn't.

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.439
<v Speaker 1>That Oh yeah, yeah, that's right, that's the one that

0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:47.840
<v Speaker 1>starts out so weird.

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was a weird song, good one. So all right,

0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:56.680
<v Speaker 2>like we kind of beat around the bush a little

0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:59.120
<v Speaker 2>bit about who the like, how pure channical they were.

0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:01.960
<v Speaker 2>You you say that a Pilgrim would look at a

0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:05.560
<v Speaker 2>Puritan like they were like a modern day American, you know,

0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:09.960
<v Speaker 2>or something like that. Yeah, in our modern eyes, we

0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:13.200
<v Speaker 2>think the Puritans were just really you know, like you said,

0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:16.359
<v Speaker 2>the the derogatory name, they were uptight, they didn't have

0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:19.479
<v Speaker 2>any fun, they were dour, but that that's really not

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:22.280
<v Speaker 2>necessarily true. That's kind of the popular trope in the

0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:27.399
<v Speaker 2>media portrayal. But they had it was all about money,

0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:31.320
<v Speaker 2>like Once people started making money and there was class division,

0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.520
<v Speaker 2>they were people wanted to show it off, and they

0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 2>were like, all right, well, let's let's pass some laws

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.240
<v Speaker 2>here that says, you know, you don't have to wear

0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:42.520
<v Speaker 2>gray and black all the time. You can. You can

0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:45.760
<v Speaker 2>splash a little color on your house and on your clothing,

0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:47.960
<v Speaker 2>and you can. You can wear those things that you

0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:50.000
<v Speaker 2>can afford to buy and show them off a little bit.

0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, why shouldn't you show if your k new Cadillac buggy,

0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:57.680
<v Speaker 1>that shows that God clearly favors you over your neighbors.

0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:01.720
<v Speaker 1>Exactly should, but only if you an economic or social elite.

0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:05.520
<v Speaker 1>If you're not, if you're a peasant, or you're just

0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:07.800
<v Speaker 1>not favored by God, you have to dress in those

0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:10.320
<v Speaker 1>great clothes that we used to all have to wear. Yeah,

0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:12.760
<v Speaker 1>that was a big change, and that happened in just

0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:16.160
<v Speaker 1>a couple of decades. What about sex?

0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Is that sex?

0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh? My god? So they did not like extramarital sex.

0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:27.560
<v Speaker 1>They were not big fans of same sex relationships.

0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Nope.

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:33.399
<v Speaker 1>They didn't even like masturbation. So you'd think, of course, like,

0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:35.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, they're famous for the scarlet letter. These are

0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:38.160
<v Speaker 1>the people who branded hester Prynne with the scarlet letter.

0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:41.280
<v Speaker 1>At least we put it on our clothing, right, Yes,

0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:44.400
<v Speaker 1>they did. That was a real thing. Nathaniel Hawthorne did

0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:48.440
<v Speaker 1>not lie. But I think as a modern group we've

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:50.320
<v Speaker 1>kind of extrapolated that to mean that they did not

0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:52.840
<v Speaker 1>like sex at all. Like you, they would just be

0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:55.840
<v Speaker 1>like some guy who followed people around and like hit

0:25:55.920 --> 0:25:58.160
<v Speaker 1>him with the switch whenever they thought about sex or something.

0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:00.560
<v Speaker 1>That's actually the opposite of what they were.

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Like, yeah, apparently you were if you were married. They

0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:07.919
<v Speaker 2>were like, hey, you go make kids, and even if

0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:10.960
<v Speaker 2>you're not making kids, you go and do that dirty deed.

0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:15.679
<v Speaker 2>I believe the the quote was it would bond couples

0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:19.320
<v Speaker 2>together with good will and delight. And they talked about

0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:22.760
<v Speaker 2>the duty of desire to like not withhold sex from

0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:25.440
<v Speaker 2>your partner, and they would even turn a blind eye

0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:28.280
<v Speaker 2>to premaral sex with his which is really shocking to

0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:30.960
<v Speaker 2>hear this, but they'd be like, hey, if you're in there,

0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:33.800
<v Speaker 2>you're not married yet, don't worry about it. Do your thing,

0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:37.400
<v Speaker 2>but if you get pregnant, you better get married really

0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 2>quickly and not tell everyone that this happened first exactly.

0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 1>So that was a big one. I didn't know that

0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:44.600
<v Speaker 1>that they were into sex.

0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:47.359
<v Speaker 2>Did not know that or the drinking thing either.

0:26:47.800 --> 0:26:49.720
<v Speaker 1>No, that's another thing too. You would think that they

0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:53.159
<v Speaker 1>were all teetotalers, and they were not. In fact, they

0:26:53.320 --> 0:26:58.040
<v Speaker 1>drank about twice as much as we drink, yeah, by

0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:01.159
<v Speaker 1>gallons of alcohol pure alcoholic, which apparently is how they

0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 1>measure drinking over the years, right. Yeah, So they would

0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:10.080
<v Speaker 1>drink all day long, morning, noon, night. They drank the

0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:14.040
<v Speaker 1>entire time, but you had to hold your liquor because

0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:17.160
<v Speaker 1>being drunk was not okay, And I don't think it

0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:19.320
<v Speaker 1>was like something they would execute you for, but it

0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:22.240
<v Speaker 1>was very much frowned upon. But drinking. Go ahead and

0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:24.680
<v Speaker 1>drink all day long, keep a nice little buzz going.

0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:25.360
<v Speaker 1>But that's it.

0:27:25.920 --> 0:27:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I get the feeling. I get the feeling. You

0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:32.840
<v Speaker 2>had to be pretty drunk to get that scorn. Okay,

0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:35.160
<v Speaker 2>So I like you had to really cross the line,

0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:38.159
<v Speaker 2>right exactly. But I think it was hard for them

0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:39.920
<v Speaker 2>because they could hold their liquor. Yeah.

0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:45.280
<v Speaker 1>So in seventeen ninety, the average American drank and estimated

0:27:45.560 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 1>six gallons of pure alcohol per year. That's seventeen ninety.

0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 1>We're thinking that probably did not change much like go

0:27:54.920 --> 0:27:58.320
<v Speaker 1>up or down from one hundred or so years before that,

0:27:58.680 --> 0:28:01.760
<v Speaker 1>it started to go down in the nineteenth century, right,

0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:05.439
<v Speaker 1>So six gallons Today, in twenty twenty one, the average

0:28:05.440 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 1>American drinks two point eighty three gallons of pure alcohol year,

0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:12.800
<v Speaker 1>so twice as much the Puritans were drinking than we do.

0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Wow, have being premarital sex. They're drinking all day long. Yep,

0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:20.680
<v Speaker 2>no wonder, they're having premarital sex. They're drinking all day long.

0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:22.159
<v Speaker 1>Sure, what else are you going to do?

0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:27.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Exactly. So when it comes to the women in

0:28:27.080 --> 0:28:31.560
<v Speaker 2>these societies, it was a patriarch like there's no getting

0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:33.960
<v Speaker 2>around that. And women didn't have a lot of legal

0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:37.400
<v Speaker 2>rights at the time, no getting around that. But depending

0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:40.800
<v Speaker 2>on which congregation or which community you were in, there

0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:44.040
<v Speaker 2>may be women in that town that had more say

0:28:44.200 --> 0:28:48.880
<v Speaker 2>over others in what was important in that town, which

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 2>was the church, which was what was being preached, the

0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:55.120
<v Speaker 2>sermons that the children were hearing. Sometimes they would even

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:57.080
<v Speaker 2>be able to lead those sermons, which was pretty.

0:28:56.880 --> 0:29:00.800
<v Speaker 1>Radical for the time, right, Yeah, for sure, And I

0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:03.520
<v Speaker 1>mean like it was very patriarchical, but I read that

0:29:03.560 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 1>the Puritans did have respect, especially colonial Puritans in New

0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:10.440
<v Speaker 1>England had a lot of respect for women for their

0:29:10.840 --> 0:29:11.920
<v Speaker 1>domestic abilities.

0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because they.

0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Did a lot of stuff just to keep a homegoing,

0:29:16.480 --> 0:29:19.520
<v Speaker 1>and then also because they would go through childbirth. So

0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:21.400
<v Speaker 1>like there was a lot of respect for women in

0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:25.680
<v Speaker 1>that sense. But the men or the oldest son were

0:29:25.800 --> 0:29:27.440
<v Speaker 1>clearly the head of the household.

0:29:27.680 --> 0:29:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of course, yeah, they and then that we talked

0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:36.680
<v Speaker 2>about this in our Salem Witch Trials episode. But you know,

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 2>the reason that was such a big deal is because

0:29:39.000 --> 0:29:41.440
<v Speaker 2>it was a big deal. It wasn't. The idea that

0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:44.680
<v Speaker 2>the Puritans were all over the place trying to drown

0:29:44.720 --> 0:29:49.760
<v Speaker 2>and burn witches just wasn't true. Salem was a pretty

0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:53.160
<v Speaker 2>exceptional incident even for the time. It was a big

0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:56.920
<v Speaker 2>controversial thing and a pretty unusual thing. So if you

0:29:56.960 --> 0:29:58.840
<v Speaker 2>have it in your head that Puritans were just like,

0:29:59.000 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, there's wait burner, it really wasn't like that.

0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:05.480
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, it was Remember I think we talked

0:30:05.520 --> 0:30:08.479
<v Speaker 1>a lot like Salem was super isolated. Yeah, because they

0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:13.360
<v Speaker 1>were the most puritanical and the most dour, and they

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:15.560
<v Speaker 1>just kind of cracked. I think, if I remember correctly,

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.400
<v Speaker 1>that was a good episode. Yeah, was that a two parter?

0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:21.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember.

0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:24.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't either. It was a good episode or episodes.

0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:26.600
<v Speaker 1>That's right, you want to take.

0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:29.520
<v Speaker 2>A break, Yeah, let's take a break.

0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:31.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're gonna take a break.

0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:33.960
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's do it, all.

0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:37.200
<v Speaker 1>Right, softy jaw.

0:30:41.040 --> 0:31:02.040
<v Speaker 3>Soft all right.

0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:06.480
<v Speaker 2>So here's the deal. If you were in one of

0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:12.560
<v Speaker 2>the puritanical communities, they did not like people who went

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:15.600
<v Speaker 2>up against them too hard. If you went up against

0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 2>them too hard and we're a little too outspoken about

0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:22.480
<v Speaker 2>how things were being done, you probably found yourself leaving

0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:26.360
<v Speaker 2>and being ousted. And a couple of pretty notable people

0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:28.880
<v Speaker 2>that happened to was a guy named Roger Williams and

0:31:28.920 --> 0:31:33.680
<v Speaker 2>a woman named Anne Hutchison. Williams was a minister. He

0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:40.200
<v Speaker 2>was educated in Cambridge, not the American Cambridge.

0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:41.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, that's what they call that town.

0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the American Cambridge, New Cambridge. He came to Boston

0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>in sixteen thirty one, moved around a bit. He seemed

0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:50.719
<v Speaker 2>to be a little bit of a rabble rouser. He

0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:52.960
<v Speaker 2>wasn't sort of content to just put his head down

0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:56.240
<v Speaker 2>and go along with everything everyone said. And that was

0:31:56.240 --> 0:32:00.280
<v Speaker 2>a problem. That was a big problem at the time. Actually,

0:32:00.320 --> 0:32:02.880
<v Speaker 2>when it came to how they were their approach to

0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:06.280
<v Speaker 2>dealing with the local indigenous Native American population.

0:32:07.080 --> 0:32:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he was kind of an idealized Puritan. He believed

0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:13.320
<v Speaker 1>in the separation of church and state, which is something

0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:18.000
<v Speaker 1>that Puritans are either credited with establishing in America or

0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:21.880
<v Speaker 1>are criticized for not having done. It just depends on

0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:24.800
<v Speaker 1>which article you're reading at the time, right, But he

0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:27.240
<v Speaker 1>was definitely in favor of the separation of church and state.

0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:30.160
<v Speaker 1>And he also was in favor of treating the Native

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:34.280
<v Speaker 1>Americans who they shared this area with respectfully, not just

0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:36.840
<v Speaker 1>taking their land because the crown said they could, but

0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:40.520
<v Speaker 1>like negotiating with them, like dealing with them fairly, to

0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:43.360
<v Speaker 1>like purchase land, and in fact he did. He purchased

0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:45.920
<v Speaker 1>a large tract of land from the Narraganset I think,

0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:48.920
<v Speaker 1>and ended up founding Rhode Island. Those are I mean,

0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Rhode Island's a small state, but it's a pretty big

0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:52.800
<v Speaker 1>tract of land in general.

0:32:53.200 --> 0:32:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Huge tract of plant m But Rhode Island was open

0:32:57.760 --> 0:32:59.600
<v Speaker 2>for business. They were like, Hey, if you're a Quaker,

0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:02.240
<v Speaker 2>come on over. If you're a Baptist or an Anabaptist,

0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:03.000
<v Speaker 2>come on over.

0:33:03.200 --> 0:33:05.040
<v Speaker 1>You want to learn design come on over.

0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:11.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, basically, anyone who wasn't a Puritan was welcome there.

0:33:11.840 --> 0:33:16.200
<v Speaker 2>They weren't welcome in Massachusetts. He himself converted in sixteen

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:19.400
<v Speaker 2>thirty nine to Baptism, and the very first Baptist church

0:33:19.800 --> 0:33:22.640
<v Speaker 2>in America is right there or I'm not sure if

0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:24.920
<v Speaker 2>still they're not actually, but right there in Providence.

0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't think they tear stuff down in Providence, so

0:33:27.280 --> 0:33:32.960
<v Speaker 1>it's probably like everything that Lovecraft wrote about is basically

0:33:33.040 --> 0:33:33.600
<v Speaker 1>still there.

0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a sign there that says Providence first Baptist

0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:39.920
<v Speaker 2>and then in parentheses, No, really first Baptist.

0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:33:42.400 --> 0:33:45.320
<v Speaker 1>So the other person you mentioned was Ann Hutchinson, and

0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:47.640
<v Speaker 1>there were also tons of dissenters, but these two are

0:33:47.680 --> 0:33:51.760
<v Speaker 1>the famous, most famous, I should say. And Anne Hutchinson

0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:55.680
<v Speaker 1>is very famous because she was about as outspoken as

0:33:55.720 --> 0:33:58.200
<v Speaker 1>a person could get, not just in her time, but

0:33:58.280 --> 0:34:01.240
<v Speaker 1>in any time, Like she just did not take any guff.

0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:06.560
<v Speaker 1>She was an incredibly intelligent and compassionate midwife, and she

0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:11.440
<v Speaker 1>had some sort of holy conversion herself. Like if anybody

0:34:12.000 --> 0:34:15.160
<v Speaker 1>went through a conversion, it was probably Anne Hutchinson. But

0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:18.400
<v Speaker 1>she started out as a follower of the minister John Cotton,

0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:21.440
<v Speaker 1>who was the father in law of Increased Mather, grandfather

0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 1>of Cotton Mather, and initially John Cotton had to flee

0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:29.040
<v Speaker 1>England because he was being persecuted for his beliefs. But

0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:31.480
<v Speaker 1>then as Anne Hutchinson kind of broke with him and

0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 1>became a little more of a firebrand and a dissident,

0:34:35.360 --> 0:34:38.719
<v Speaker 1>he ended up turning on her with John Winthrop and

0:34:39.200 --> 0:34:44.280
<v Speaker 1>she was ostracized. She was excommunicated from Massachusetts for behaving

0:34:44.320 --> 0:34:47.520
<v Speaker 1>in a manner not comely for her sex. That was

0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:49.520
<v Speaker 1>a quote, if you've never really heard me talk before,

0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:50.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't talk like that.

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:54.239
<v Speaker 2>I've known you for a long time, never heard you

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:56.399
<v Speaker 2>say the word comely until just now.

0:34:56.680 --> 0:34:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:34:57.480 --> 0:35:00.319
<v Speaker 2>So she was actually preaching like you, Sa said. She

0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:04.360
<v Speaker 2>went through that conversion and she was preaching the Holy Spirit,

0:35:04.880 --> 0:35:07.839
<v Speaker 2>and she was saying she was one of those people

0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:10.320
<v Speaker 2>that were like, hey, you get a direct line to

0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:13.319
<v Speaker 2>God in the Holy Spirit. You can talk to God,

0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:17.360
<v Speaker 2>and anyone can get this personal connection to God. Anyone

0:35:17.360 --> 0:35:20.040
<v Speaker 2>can go to Heaven. It doesn't matter if you're a sinner,

0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:23.239
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter what kind of a relationship you have

0:35:23.320 --> 0:35:26.880
<v Speaker 2>with the church. It's it's a personal and this is

0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:29.239
<v Speaker 2>what you know, I got growing up with what the

0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:31.839
<v Speaker 2>Baptists really think about these days. Well, and I guess

0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:34.759
<v Speaker 2>all along was that it's a very personal relationship you

0:35:34.800 --> 0:35:39.160
<v Speaker 2>have with God. You don't need to go to a

0:35:39.360 --> 0:35:44.040
<v Speaker 2>church even necessarily. You just have that personal relationship and

0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:46.240
<v Speaker 2>you can pray directly to God. You got an open line.

0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:49.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a very Protestant way of looking at things.

0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:52.960
<v Speaker 1>It's like the antithesis of the Catholic way again. Yeah,

0:35:53.000 --> 0:35:57.120
<v Speaker 1>but Ann Hutchinson, she was basically like, you can, you

0:35:57.160 --> 0:35:59.799
<v Speaker 1>can banish me, but God's going to destroy this colony.

0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Famous quote.

0:36:01.320 --> 0:36:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, her famous quote was we're on a mission from.

0:36:03.760 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 2>God, yeah, exactly.

0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:09.919
<v Speaker 1>And it didn't come to pass. Massachusetts is still there.

0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:11.719
<v Speaker 1>But she went off and just kind of did her

0:36:11.719 --> 0:36:15.640
<v Speaker 1>own thing, and her family moved with her to Rhode Island.

0:36:15.719 --> 0:36:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Apparently her husband was extremely supportive and she was the

0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:22.279
<v Speaker 1>mother of fifteen, if not sixteen kids, and they all

0:36:22.280 --> 0:36:24.839
<v Speaker 1>moved to Rhode Island and Roger Williams said, welcome on in.

0:36:26.080 --> 0:36:28.320
<v Speaker 1>He said, why are you wearing sunglasses? It's nighttime?

0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Fifteen kids. That was good. Some other people, if you

0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:37.200
<v Speaker 2>want to talk about people that Massachusetts didn't want a round.

0:36:37.239 --> 0:36:41.720
<v Speaker 2>That was the Quakers. The Puritans didn't like them because

0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:44.799
<v Speaker 2>the Quakers were just too like, probably a little too

0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:47.200
<v Speaker 2>hippy dippy for them. They were all about following your

0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:51.400
<v Speaker 2>inner light again, having a direct line to Jesus, didn't

0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:55.440
<v Speaker 2>need religious officials. They thought the Quakers were weird, so

0:36:55.480 --> 0:36:58.959
<v Speaker 2>the Massachusetts colonies were like, we don't want you around here.

0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:03.839
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it would get violent and ugly. I believe over

0:37:03.960 --> 0:37:06.360
<v Speaker 2>the course of a couple of years, four Quakers were hanged,

0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:10.319
<v Speaker 2>one of which was Mary Dyer. She was one of

0:37:10.360 --> 0:37:14.840
<v Speaker 2>the acolytes of Anne Hutchinson, who had, you know, eventually

0:37:14.840 --> 0:37:17.880
<v Speaker 2>obviously converted to Quakerism. But you know, things got so

0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:22.640
<v Speaker 2>bad among persecuting Quakers that King Charles the Second in

0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:25.480
<v Speaker 2>sixteen sixty one finally said, you guys got to stop

0:37:25.560 --> 0:37:27.640
<v Speaker 2>killing Quakers. This is not a good look.

0:37:28.120 --> 0:37:30.600
<v Speaker 1>He's like, leave the Quakers alone.

0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:36.120
<v Speaker 1>The thing that they hated about Quakers, though, was a Quaker.

0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:40.160
<v Speaker 1>I guess dogma or whatever. If that's not a contradiction

0:37:40.239 --> 0:37:43.360
<v Speaker 1>in terms is that every single person alive has a

0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:46.200
<v Speaker 1>little bit of the Divine Spirit in them, which means

0:37:46.239 --> 0:37:49.120
<v Speaker 1>every single person alive is worthy of respect from every

0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:52.759
<v Speaker 1>other single person alive. And that really flies in the

0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:56.680
<v Speaker 1>face of that saved elitism that the Puritans based their

0:37:56.840 --> 0:37:59.920
<v Speaker 1>entire jam on. That was a big deal. They hated

0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Quakers for that. And also, you know the idea that

0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:07.560
<v Speaker 1>we're all equal that Quakers believe, that's not again, not

0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:10.440
<v Speaker 1>at all what the Puritans believe. They saw basically the

0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:13.359
<v Speaker 1>opposite of that, like I'm literally holier than now because

0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:17.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm richer than you. Essentially was a tenet of Puritanism

0:38:17.800 --> 0:38:19.799
<v Speaker 1>and one of the reasons why they still have a

0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:24.719
<v Speaker 1>bad name today is the Puritans went through such damaging

0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:30.760
<v Speaker 1>intolerance and persecution time after time in England, decade after decade,

0:38:31.000 --> 0:38:33.680
<v Speaker 1>and then they would just turn right around the moment

0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:36.040
<v Speaker 1>they had a measure of power and do it to

0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 1>other groups that didn't agree with them. So they're remembered

0:38:39.120 --> 0:38:44.400
<v Speaker 1>as being like profoundly hypocritical as a group, largely because

0:38:44.400 --> 0:38:44.600
<v Speaker 1>of that.

0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:49.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, should we finish up with a little bit

0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:55.640
<v Speaker 2>about the slave trade in Massachusetts? Sure, because I think

0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:57.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people are like, I think you're mistaken.

0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:00.200
<v Speaker 2>I think you're talking about the South.

0:39:01.239 --> 0:39:02.240
<v Speaker 1>That pronounced Georgia.

0:39:02.640 --> 0:39:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, here's how it went down. And we should say

0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:08.080
<v Speaker 2>it was not a robust situation as far as enslaving

0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:12.040
<v Speaker 2>people in Massachusetts. That's a spoiler. But the lead up

0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:16.800
<v Speaker 2>into this was before the Mayflower got there. In sixteen twenty,

0:39:17.320 --> 0:39:21.760
<v Speaker 2>the Algonquin speaking people there in southern New England were

0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:26.200
<v Speaker 2>ravaged by and we've talked about this before about illness

0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:28.799
<v Speaker 2>that came over from Europe. I think it wiped out

0:39:28.840 --> 0:39:32.080
<v Speaker 2>like ninety percent of the population over a three year period.

0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:36.680
<v Speaker 2>And over in England, King James the first is like, see,

0:39:36.719 --> 0:39:40.880
<v Speaker 2>this is God basically saying this land belongs to you.

0:39:41.160 --> 0:39:45.200
<v Speaker 2>So he's killing all these people, you know, in the

0:39:45.280 --> 0:39:47.279
<v Speaker 2>name of God, so we can go over there and

0:39:47.320 --> 0:39:49.040
<v Speaker 2>have this land exactly.

0:39:50.200 --> 0:39:53.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And John Winthrop echoed that, like that was kind

0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:56.120
<v Speaker 1>of the sentiment, like clearly God had cleared the land

0:39:56.200 --> 0:40:00.439
<v Speaker 1>for the English to take over. I mean, there's ninety

0:40:00.480 --> 0:40:02.360
<v Speaker 1>percent of your population in three.

0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Years as yeah.

0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you're a Puritan, it's tough to not take

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:07.000
<v Speaker 1>it like that, right.

0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:12.000
<v Speaker 1>So all of the Native Americans, even though their society

0:40:12.120 --> 0:40:15.880
<v Speaker 1>was completely upended. And I guess here's my chance to

0:40:16.200 --> 0:40:18.120
<v Speaker 1>mention fourteen ninety one again, because.

0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:20.240
<v Speaker 2>It covers all of it's been a while.

0:40:20.360 --> 0:40:21.840
<v Speaker 1>It has been a while, but I can't just not

0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:27.960
<v Speaker 1>mention it. Yeah, there were still healthy, robust tribes of

0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:31.520
<v Speaker 1>Native Americans in the area, and in this area, specifically

0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:35.000
<v Speaker 1>in central in southern what is now Connecticut, were the Peaquot,

0:40:35.520 --> 0:40:38.680
<v Speaker 1>and they essentially ran the show. There were others, the

0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Narragansett Mohegans, they were in the area too, but they

0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:45.520
<v Speaker 1>were subjugated by the Peacot. Peaquot who were in alliance

0:40:45.520 --> 0:40:47.520
<v Speaker 1>with the Dutch, and they controlled all of the fur

0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:50.279
<v Speaker 1>trading in the area. So they were a very substantial,

0:40:50.400 --> 0:40:53.680
<v Speaker 1>tough group. And the English essentially, as they tried to

0:40:53.680 --> 0:40:56.759
<v Speaker 1>push further and further south into Connecticut and below into

0:40:56.800 --> 0:40:59.200
<v Speaker 1>southern New England, they ran right into the pea Quot.

0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:01.040
<v Speaker 1>They're like, no, oh, this is our lan and you're

0:41:01.040 --> 0:41:03.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna have to stay up there. The English didn't like

0:41:03.440 --> 0:41:06.600
<v Speaker 1>that at all, and in fairly short order, the first

0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:11.360
<v Speaker 1>truly sustained conflict between the English and Native Americans was

0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:13.439
<v Speaker 1>what came to be known as the pea Quot War.

0:41:14.200 --> 0:41:18.840
<v Speaker 2>That's right right there at the Connecticut Colony. They defeated

0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:25.800
<v Speaker 2>them pretty roundly, and that's basically how the what kicked

0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:30.800
<v Speaker 2>off enslavement of people because they got these the pea Quots.

0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:34.440
<v Speaker 2>The idea was, hey, let's get them far away from

0:41:34.480 --> 0:41:37.959
<v Speaker 2>their homeland. So they're in a far away place where

0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:42.240
<v Speaker 2>they have, you know, their will has been basically killed

0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:44.319
<v Speaker 2>to try and return to where they came from. They

0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:47.560
<v Speaker 2>have no help nearby because we've taken them far from home.

0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:51.120
<v Speaker 2>So they sent some of those peaquots to the West

0:41:51.120 --> 0:41:56.080
<v Speaker 2>Indies to trade for African enslaved people in return brought

0:41:56.120 --> 0:42:00.719
<v Speaker 2>them over and basically the same aim as you know

0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:04.839
<v Speaker 2>sending Africans to the colonies was like, well they're you know,

0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:07.080
<v Speaker 2>they're stuck over there now, and then now we have

0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:10.040
<v Speaker 2>your pequots and they're stuck over here. It was only

0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 2>a few hundred enslaved people in the colonies, so, like

0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:17.000
<v Speaker 2>I said, it wasn't the most robust thing, nothing like

0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:20.400
<v Speaker 2>it was in the South, obviously, but just the idea

0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:22.360
<v Speaker 2>that you know, that kind of thing didn't happen up

0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:23.520
<v Speaker 2>there just wasn't true.

0:42:23.600 --> 0:42:26.600
<v Speaker 1>Right, No, absolutely, And that Peaquot war and the following

0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:30.840
<v Speaker 1>adoption of enslavement was a huge turning point for a

0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:33.000
<v Speaker 1>lot of like big wake up call for a lot

0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:35.839
<v Speaker 1>of the Puritans, because if you look at the original

0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:40.600
<v Speaker 1>seal of Massachusetts, there's a Native American on there, and

0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:43.600
<v Speaker 1>there's still one there today. But originally there was a

0:42:43.640 --> 0:42:47.879
<v Speaker 1>cartoon bubble where he was saying, come over and help us,

0:42:48.440 --> 0:42:52.279
<v Speaker 1>really and yes, and a lot of the a lot

0:42:52.320 --> 0:42:56.160
<v Speaker 1>of the Puritans who did arrive arrived with that aim.

0:42:56.239 --> 0:42:58.440
<v Speaker 1>They were coming like for the opportunity to save the

0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:00.600
<v Speaker 1>souls of this whole group of people had never been

0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:03.520
<v Speaker 1>exposed to God before, right, and now all of a

0:43:03.560 --> 0:43:08.000
<v Speaker 1>sudden the English had waged total war and slaughtered pea

0:43:08.040 --> 0:43:11.359
<v Speaker 1>Quat women and children, burned villages, and then shot people

0:43:11.360 --> 0:43:14.759
<v Speaker 1>who tried to escape. It was ugly during the Peaquot War.

0:43:15.040 --> 0:43:16.799
<v Speaker 1>So some people are like, what are we doing? Like

0:43:16.840 --> 0:43:19.600
<v Speaker 1>we need to have a reckoning about all this. And

0:43:19.719 --> 0:43:22.600
<v Speaker 1>I think the elite Puritans of the Massachusetts Colony kind

0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:24.160
<v Speaker 1>of came to these people and he said, I know

0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:26.800
<v Speaker 1>how you're feeling, Fellah, will make you feel any better

0:43:27.239 --> 0:43:30.799
<v Speaker 1>if we just start selling more timber instead of really

0:43:30.840 --> 0:43:33.279
<v Speaker 1>reflecting on what we've done here. And the guy kind

0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:35.320
<v Speaker 1>of like wiped a tear from his eye and sniff

0:43:35.320 --> 0:43:36.799
<v Speaker 1>a little bit. It's like, yeah, that'll make me feel

0:43:36.800 --> 0:43:38.520
<v Speaker 1>a little bit better, and they just kind of move

0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:42.680
<v Speaker 1>forward and establishing southern New England using those same tactics

0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:44.880
<v Speaker 1>from there on out. And I should say that I

0:43:45.040 --> 0:43:49.040
<v Speaker 1>got to chuck that up to the YouTube channel Boston History.

0:43:49.200 --> 0:43:51.960
<v Speaker 1>There's a Professor Allison who did a great little like

0:43:52.120 --> 0:43:54.279
<v Speaker 1>seven and a half minute video on that whole thing.

0:43:55.000 --> 0:44:02.440
<v Speaker 2>So Puritanism declined eventually, gradually kind of like how society goes.

0:44:02.520 --> 0:44:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Things became a little less zealous as far as religion goes,

0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:11.360
<v Speaker 2>a little more open minded, little more changed with the times,

0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:14.320
<v Speaker 2>and that was kind of the end of Puritanism, or

0:44:14.320 --> 0:44:18.640
<v Speaker 2>at least you know, that kind of puritanism England. In

0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:22.840
<v Speaker 2>the sixteen eighties, they you know, really cracked down on

0:44:22.840 --> 0:44:26.480
<v Speaker 2>the independent politics and the colonies. They said, hey, you

0:44:26.560 --> 0:44:30.239
<v Speaker 2>got to have a freedom of religion over there if

0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:32.560
<v Speaker 2>you want to move forward and roll with the times.

0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:38.359
<v Speaker 2>But you know, Christianity still has plenty of those puritanical

0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:42.800
<v Speaker 2>aspects to it in New England and then as its spread,

0:44:42.880 --> 0:44:44.880
<v Speaker 2>you know throughout the rest of the colonies for.

0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Sure, Yeah, for sure. And there's still a huge legacy

0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:51.400
<v Speaker 1>of Puritanism today, which we've kind of peppered throughout the

0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:56.360
<v Speaker 1>whole episode. A sterling example as me an American born

0:44:56.480 --> 0:45:01.280
<v Speaker 1>man feeling completely fine with being holier than now towards

0:45:01.280 --> 0:45:07.839
<v Speaker 1>the Puritans. That's Puritanical in nature. Sure, so is intolerance

0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:12.440
<v Speaker 1>of others, a love of income inequality or at least

0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:15.239
<v Speaker 1>a respect of it among a lot of people. But

0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:17.840
<v Speaker 1>then there's also like a lot of really good stuff

0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:21.600
<v Speaker 1>that are chalked up to the Puritans too, like the

0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:24.160
<v Speaker 1>American work ethic, the idea that you can pull yourself

0:45:24.239 --> 0:45:27.200
<v Speaker 1>up from by your own bootstraps that came out of

0:45:27.239 --> 0:45:28.600
<v Speaker 1>colonial Massachusetts.

0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:31.120
<v Speaker 2>For certain, they have the boot straps.

0:45:30.760 --> 0:45:33.000
<v Speaker 1>They did, they had little well the buckles at least

0:45:33.040 --> 0:45:34.760
<v Speaker 1>pull yourself up by your breast buckles.

0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:38.120
<v Speaker 2>We already talked about schooling and education.

0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:40.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was another big one too, that we can

0:45:40.760 --> 0:45:44.440
<v Speaker 1>thank them for thriftiness, not being wasteful, which I'm not

0:45:44.480 --> 0:45:47.080
<v Speaker 1>sure that that really survived into the twenty first century,

0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:49.240
<v Speaker 1>but that was a thing for a while in America,

0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:53.879
<v Speaker 1>drinking all day. Yeah, although funny enough, remember I said

0:45:53.880 --> 0:45:56.920
<v Speaker 1>that it started to take a downturn in the nineteenth century.

0:45:57.360 --> 0:46:00.359
<v Speaker 1>Those same descendants of the Puritans went through was known

0:46:00.400 --> 0:46:03.520
<v Speaker 1>as a Great Awakening and one of the things that

0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:06.319
<v Speaker 1>they took aim at was alcohol consumption. And so it's

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:11.520
<v Speaker 1>funny that we associate looking down on alcohol consumption with Puritans,

0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:15.040
<v Speaker 1>but it is kind of descended from their descendants.

0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Sarah, like we got this tailgating's getting out

0:46:19.160 --> 0:46:23.120
<v Speaker 2>of hand. Everybody, Right, Boy, that was a pretty good one.

0:46:23.280 --> 0:46:27.080
<v Speaker 1>I've got one more thing. An American journalist who really

0:46:27.120 --> 0:46:32.200
<v Speaker 1>disliked Puritanism. His names hl Mencan, great journalist, and he

0:46:32.760 --> 0:46:36.279
<v Speaker 1>summed the whole thing up, I think quite nicely. He

0:46:36.400 --> 0:46:40.400
<v Speaker 1>very famously said Puritanism is the haunting fear that someone

0:46:40.680 --> 0:46:43.800
<v Speaker 1>somewhere may be happy.

0:46:44.560 --> 0:46:45.040
<v Speaker 2>That's good.

0:46:46.040 --> 0:46:49.560
<v Speaker 1>Chuck said, that's good. I quoted hl Mencan. Obviously everybody

0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:52.000
<v Speaker 1>that customarily means listener males here.

0:46:53.800 --> 0:46:56.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is just a very sweet email. Occasionally we

0:46:56.360 --> 0:46:58.879
<v Speaker 2>read these from time to time when people are just

0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:02.640
<v Speaker 2>very very kind and show a kindness toward us. So

0:47:02.719 --> 0:47:07.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to read it. Hey, guys and Josh, Chuck,

0:47:07.239 --> 0:47:10.680
<v Speaker 2>Jerry Dave. By the way, I've been trying to compose

0:47:10.680 --> 0:47:12.480
<v Speaker 2>this email for over three years, but y'all have been

0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:14.480
<v Speaker 2>on such a role lately with topics that I feel

0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:18.040
<v Speaker 2>obligated to spill my grateful guts. I hope this isn't

0:47:18.120 --> 0:47:20.560
<v Speaker 2>verging into parasocial, But you guys have been with our

0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:24.239
<v Speaker 2>family for countless road trips, houseworks, sleepless nights, commutes, the

0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:28.680
<v Speaker 2>birth of our twins, twelve weeks in the nick you, weddings, vacations,

0:47:29.160 --> 0:47:32.080
<v Speaker 2>out of state, surgeries for our youngest. During a few

0:47:32.080 --> 0:47:33.799
<v Speaker 2>of our hospital trips, who are asked to fill out

0:47:33.840 --> 0:47:35.920
<v Speaker 2>a sign on the front door that said what our

0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:38.759
<v Speaker 2>child's name was and what they like or their favorite thing,

0:47:39.320 --> 0:47:41.239
<v Speaker 2>and it was always between stuff you should know and

0:47:41.280 --> 0:47:44.279
<v Speaker 2>blue And each time I told our nurses to put

0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:45.279
<v Speaker 2>stuff you should.

0:47:44.960 --> 0:47:46.120
<v Speaker 1>Know, that's high praise.

0:47:46.440 --> 0:47:49.279
<v Speaker 2>It is high praise. I would have put bluey. Your

0:47:49.360 --> 0:47:51.120
<v Speaker 2>voices have had a soothing effect on all of us,

0:47:51.120 --> 0:47:55.360
<v Speaker 2>through monumental personal life events, through gut wrenching global catastrophes.

0:47:56.120 --> 0:47:58.400
<v Speaker 2>We got the audio version of your book and have

0:47:58.520 --> 0:48:01.320
<v Speaker 2>listened through the End of the World multiple times.

0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Nice, that's amazing.

0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:05.719
<v Speaker 2>I haven't even listened to it multiple times.

0:48:05.960 --> 0:48:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Huh, that's okay. I don't expect it to.

0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Your book, movie, podcast, article recommendations carry loads of cloud,

0:48:13.520 --> 0:48:16.719
<v Speaker 2>as they are never anything short of exceptional. We have,

0:48:16.800 --> 0:48:21.040
<v Speaker 2>in turn, recommended you to many friends, family, students, healthcare workers,

0:48:21.080 --> 0:48:23.840
<v Speaker 2>comrades of all ages and walks of life. Thank you

0:48:23.880 --> 0:48:27.680
<v Speaker 2>for helping us cultivate an intellectually stimulating environment for our

0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:32.080
<v Speaker 2>young ones and inspiring us grown ups to remain flexible

0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:35.200
<v Speaker 2>and curious. You expand our understanding of the world as

0:48:35.239 --> 0:48:37.920
<v Speaker 2>it is, as it has been, and help us move

0:48:37.960 --> 0:48:42.120
<v Speaker 2>forward in humility towards creating a just and equitable future. Wow,

0:48:43.280 --> 0:48:45.120
<v Speaker 2>you've got the wrong email address here.

0:48:45.560 --> 0:48:47.320
<v Speaker 1>They're like, this is SmartLess, right.

0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:50.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. If I keep trying to say all the

0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:53.040
<v Speaker 2>nice things I think and feel about y'all and your show,

0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:55.880
<v Speaker 2>I'll be stuck editing this email for another three years.

0:48:56.520 --> 0:49:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Hope to see you in Chicago. Admiringly Nelson and Nelson

0:49:00.840 --> 0:49:06.799
<v Speaker 2>sent in pictures of their beautiful family, and I responded

0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:09.759
<v Speaker 2>and said, Hey, if you can come to Chicago for

0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:12.239
<v Speaker 2>this show, then we would love for you to be

0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:14.840
<v Speaker 2>our guests. And I haven't heard back yet, so well.

0:49:14.800 --> 0:49:17.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a cute family. I saw that email too,

0:49:17.719 --> 0:49:19.319
<v Speaker 1>and I was heartwarmed by just.

0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:22.000
<v Speaker 2>A wonderful thing. So and when we say be our guests,

0:49:22.080 --> 0:49:24.799
<v Speaker 2>that means free tickets, by the way, not just we're

0:49:24.800 --> 0:49:26.720
<v Speaker 2>going to give you a welcome afty buy tickets.

0:49:28.680 --> 0:49:31.680
<v Speaker 1>I also love Nelson wrote in parentheses after they signed it,

0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:33.440
<v Speaker 1>like Mendela or Muntz.

0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hats off Nelson.

0:49:36.880 --> 0:49:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much. That was a super kind sweet

0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:42.120
<v Speaker 1>email and we really appreciate it, I can say quite

0:49:42.200 --> 0:49:46.040
<v Speaker 1>confidently speaking for you as well, right, Chuck, absolutely, If

0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:47.480
<v Speaker 1>you want to be like Nelson and sent us a

0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:50.200
<v Speaker 1>super sweet email, you can bet we love that kind

0:49:50.239 --> 0:49:52.280
<v Speaker 1>of thing. Just wrap it up, spanking on the bottom

0:49:52.320 --> 0:49:59.440
<v Speaker 1>and send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:01.839
<v Speaker 1>Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:05.560
<v Speaker 2>For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:50:05.719 --> 0:50:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.