WEBVTT - Say My Name 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.480 Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from stuff 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:15.680 dot com either everyone, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:18.720 Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren vocal And today we're going 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:23.599 to look at a person who has a really important role. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:28.080 We're looking at Heisenberg. So he started off as Walter White, 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:32.000 just a mild mannered chemistry teacher, but then eventually discovered 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:37.840 that he was cancer and that he was what Werner Heisenberg. 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:44.920 Oh all right, well, um Werner Heisenberg. Right. Uh, I'm 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.919 just not sure about this topic. Heisenberg, right, okay, wait, 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:50.279 I think I have some notes on him too. Are 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.880 you this He was born on December n Yes, that 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:59.600 one the physicist. Yes, the famous theoretical physicist. Al Right, well, 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:01.960 all right, maybe I won't get a geek out about 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:06.560 breaking bad, but that's fine. We can talk about Vernon Heisenberg. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.360 I like that your German pronunciation is better than the 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:11.479 lady with the last name vocal Bomb. That's pretty that's 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:17.720 pretty great. Um, so born on December five night, you know, 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.240 one in Verzberg. Uh and yeah, Heisenberg has played an 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:27.399 incredibly important role in the establishment that that's the foundations 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.440 of what is quantum mechanics. Right, if you've heard of 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.080 something something called the uncertainty principle, that is a k A. 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.600 Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, that that is, he is the operative Heisenberg. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.960 In this we will explain what that uncertainty principle is 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.680 in certain terms, but that will be towards the second 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:48.320 half of the podcast. First, we wanted to kind of 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:52.280 talk about who he was, sort of his background. His 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:56.320 father was an expert in Middle and modern Greek languages. 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:01.080 That's a Dr. August Heisenberg. His mother there was any 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.680 wink line, winklin, wink lin, was it wy? There's no 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.720 w sound in German. It's um. Yeah, so vs or 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.400 fs and and w s or vs. That's easy to remember, simple, 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.680 all right, Yeah, so yeah, he he um. It's funny 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.760 because I understand that his his own background in Greek, 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.919 his father was an expert in Greek. His own background 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.360 in Greek meant that when they got to the point 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:32.480 where physicists were starting to name theoretical and he would 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:36.080 correct people's use of Greek, saying things like, you cannot 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.160 spell it this way because that's not how it would 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.520 be actually spelled. If such a thing existed in the 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:44.480 Greek language. So so he was, um, you know, helping 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.240 us stay on the rails as far as the use 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.600 of Greek. Right while he was growing up, when he 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.600 was twelve, that is when Neil's Bore presented his general 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:57.440 theory of of quantum existence. Yes, so Bore would be 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:03.040 incredibly important during Heiss education. But Niels Boor also known 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.160 for making the Boor model of the atom. So that 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.440 was the model the atom that suggested that you had 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:13.799 a central nucleus and then electrons that were ordering that nucleus. Yeah, 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.960 so that's you know, anyone who's taken any any class 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:21.520 in chemistry or physics has seen the Boor model. It's 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.520 still one of those things that um usually is. It's 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:29.000 part of the history of the development of particle physics 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.200 and quantum mechanics. Right, we we know now that it's 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.120 a little bit um simplified. Yeah. In fact, Heisenberg would 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:39.200 go on exactly right, Uh, he was while he was 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.080 in high school. There was a major event that played 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:46.120 out across the entire world and particularly in Europe, World 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.600 War One. Yeah. World War One happened between nineteen fourteen 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:55.600 and nineteen eighteen. Some of Heisenberg's academic contemporaries, or not 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.880 even contemporaries. Some of his mentors had actually served in 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.560 World War One, various officers in the military. Right. Right, 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.960 Heisenberg himself had to leave school, leave high school to 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.480 go help harvest crops in Bavaria at the time, and um, 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:12.440 by by the time he got back after the war, 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.640 he was deeply involved in youth groups like the New 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.880 Boy Scouts. That we're trying to rebuild the science and 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.040 artistic culture in Germany. Right, So keep in mind, like 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:27.880 at this time in Germany, things are really tumultuous. I mean, 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.040 World War One was already one of those events that 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:36.360 that played upon certain sentiments in Germany, and after the 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.359 war was concluded, that got even more messy because you 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.120 had the rest of the world, uh, you know, trying 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.320 to deal with this situation and make sure that it 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.280 could not happen again. I mean, this was one of 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.719 those wars that no one really expected whatever happened, because 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:53.680 the idea was that everyone would be building up their 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.120 armies to a point that anyone would be crazy to 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.400 attack anyone else. And as it turns out, humans are crazy, y'all. 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.200 So um, yeah, we it was. It was one of 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.839 those things where where as in an attempt to prevent 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.360 this from happening again, there were a lot of reparations 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:11.200 demanded against Germany. This in turn ended up fueling a 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:16.520 lot of resentment in Germany and would eventually give the 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:21.320 Nazi movement sort of kind of foothold. Yeah, exactly, it 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:25.880 gave them that that that place to build some support, 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.880 because you had all these Germans who felt that uh, 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.760 that their lives had been ruined as a result of 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.400 the actions that followed World War One. Now that plays 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:39.640 a big role in Heisenberg's life because this is also 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:44.520 a time when physicists are making incredible discoveries. We are 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.719 learning more about the quantum world, that that atomic scale 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:53.160 world than ever before. The instruments that were being made 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.839 were becoming precise enough for us to look at things 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:57.920 on a level that we never could have seen before. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:03.480 So there is a figurative explosion in physics at this time, 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.200 and a lot of and sometimes literal explosions. But a 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.479 lot of the physicists that were active at this time, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.400 particularly in Germany, were of Jewish descent. Now, of course, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.200 that would cause play another important role once we talk 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.800 about the rise of the Nazi movement and the entry 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:25.320 into World War two. Obviously that's going to to really 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.360 shake things up. But before we get to that point, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.320 we talk more a little about about Heisenberg's educational background. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:37.039 Once World War One had concluded, he attended the Maximilian 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.760 School at Munich and then eventually the University of Munich. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.520 He originally went to study math, but according to reports, 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.200 a professor wouldn't let him into an advanced seminar, and 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.919 that's when he switched to physics. And just imagine what 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.080 the world would be like without that, I mean, quantum physics, 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:57.320 for example, might have a very different approach, particularly when 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.800 you start talking about people like Schrodinger. And we will 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.360 and maybe we'll even mention his cat so uh. At 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.760 the university, he studied physics with professors like Arnold Johannes 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:13.560 Wilhelm Sommerfeld, who was a theoretical physicist. Uh. He was 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:17.720 a physicist who would stay on teaching even during World 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.280 War two. So he stayed in Germany and continued to teach. 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:26.760 He did get a little upset that the more than 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:32.040 a little upset that his departments were being completely yet 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.720 purged of anyone who had any sort of Jewish background, 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.800 whether they self identified as Jewish or if they had 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.880 maybe an ancestor three generations back who was Jewish. Sure 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.440 also um According to some reports, the Nazis considered the 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.600 theoretical physics as a field to be Jewish. Yes, yes, 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:52.320 because there were there were so many Jewish thinkers who 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:57.000 were the leaders of theoretical physics that the Nazis looked 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.360 down upon the entire discipline as being some thing that 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.600 was impure and should be completely purged. And in fact, 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:08.280 instead they wanted to have Deutsche physique that's German physics 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.080 as a study as opposed to theoretical physics, so that 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:15.320 would also disrupt the advances that could have happened during 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:20.160 that time. Another professor was Wilhelm Karl Ferna Otto, Fritz 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.200 fran Vin. You're just enjoying saying these names, aren't you, 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.360 Wilhelm Wien is usually how we we say that, But yes, 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.680 you're the answer to that question is yes, I love 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.080 I love saying German names. Uh. He was a physicist 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:36.199 and he focused on black body radiation and electromagnetics magnetism 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.679 rather and he passed away in n so he died 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.959 before World War Two began. He died before the Nazis 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.880 had really taken control of Germany. Um there was Alfred 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.520 Pringsheim who was a professor of mathematics and had Jewish roots. 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.880 During the Nazi regime, he would see his entire fortune 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:59.000 taken from him. Everything he had inherited a huge fortune, 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.120 and every rething he owned was taken by the Nazis. 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.360 He was eventually forced to change his name to Alfred 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:10.640 Israel drinks him because of his Jewish ancestry. One wonderfully racist, 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:13.840 you know. The Nazis were not known for being subtle 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:18.480 with the way that they treated any one of Jewish heritage. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:23.000 And then a fourth professor was Arthur Rosenthal, who had 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.920 a focus on geometry as well as dynamical systems, also 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.600 had Jewish roots. He would be forced from his position 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.400 in nineteen thirty six by the Nazis and would eventually 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.880 immigrate to the United States and nineteen nine and taught 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.920 at the University of Michigan, which has come up a 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.840 lot in our conversations recently because that's where I went to. 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.280 But he taught the University of Michigan. Then eventually taught 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.400 at the University of New Mexico and then later at 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:50.240 Purdue University. So these were the four professors who really 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:55.440 kind of sparked Heisenberg's fascination with physics and mathematics, and 0:09:55.640 --> 0:10:02.000 this is founding in in those subjects exactly, so Somerfeld, Veen, Pringsheim, 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:06.840 and Rosenthal Uh. Then in nineteen two Heisenberg went to 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:12.200 Goodingen Goodingen as a University of Goodingen to study physics 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:18.160 under some more famous physicists, including Max Bourne, whose focus 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:22.200 was on quantum mechanics, particularly in statistical interpretation of the 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.400 wave functioned, which we will talk about again and a 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.160 little bit because Schrodinger was definitely a wave functioned guy. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.280 As it turns out, Heisenberg was different. He did not 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.319 really look at the wave function of quantum physics. He 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.360 was looking at something else. And now I'll explain that 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:41.280 when we get there, because that's fun for me. Um 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.480 Born Max Boorne was also the director of theoretical physics 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.120 at the university and was Jewish, so he immigrated to 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.320 the United Kingdom when the Nazis came into power in 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:55.080 Germany and continued to research particle physics. Well, well, not 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.360 quite particle physics, quantum physics, and theoretical physics, as well 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:03.080 as teaching in UK. Then you had James Frank, who 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.960 was a physicistant, studied atomic and subatomic collisions, particularly electrons 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.640 colliding with adams, and also was of Jewish heritage. So 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.760 he would leave Germany in nineteen thirty three for the 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.640 United States and would later participate in what was known 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.120 as the Manhattan Project. We could do a full episode 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:28.760 on the Manhattan Project. That. Yeah, it's an amazing story. Um. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.800 And here's another great story with James Frank. So he 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.520 won the Nobel Prize in NT for physics. He left 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.800 the gold medal, the Nobel Prize medal back in Germany 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.920 when he left to essentially flee to the United States. Uh. 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.880 There was another physicist named George de Heavnasy and I 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.440 know I'm saying that name wrong, so I greatly apologize. 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.640 But for once, we're talking about someone who's not German, 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.320 so I can't say his name, but he he in 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.000 order to protect this gold medal from being taken by 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.160 the Nazis and melted down, he dissolved the metal and 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.559 acid and then put the solution on a shelf so 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.040 it's a solution with dissolved gold on the shelf. World 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.760 War two is over, he goes back, the solution is 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.280 still on the shelf. He then precipitates that solution, precipitating 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.800 the gold out of the acid and used the gold 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.280 to melt it back into the metal and meant a 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.400 new and meant a new metal so that they can 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.280 give it uh back to James Frank. So that I 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.920 thought was a really cool story. Then there's another professor 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.400 he studied under was David Hilbert, was a mathematician who 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.640 focused on geometry and functional analysis, who retired in nine 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.319 so he lived to see the Nazis purge Germany of 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.160 Jewish mathematicians and physicists, and was later asked at a 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.080 state dinner. He was actually asked a question about what 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.600 was the state of mathematics after it had been quote 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:54.800 unquote freed of Jewish influence, and his response was, there's 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.040 no study of mathematics anymore. He was essentially saying that 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:03.959 the actions of the Nazi had effectively into the entire 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.240 field because they had they had removed or or had 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.720 caused to flee all of the leading thinkers and instead 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.800 of including like Einstein. So they were turning mathematics and 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.280 science into a political thing, and by doing that, they 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.280 were saying that these other things that did not fit 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:24.800 that political regime as invalid. And that's not the way 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:28.360 science works, not the way mathematics works, but that's how 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.600 they were demanding it. It can be a very effective 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.120 means of controlling a population by controlling their education. But 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.559 also it also ends up meaning that you you really you, 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.120 you just throw a huge monkey wrench and into any 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:46.480 kind of advancement in those fields. So before World War two, 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:48.600 this is, this is all happening before World War two, 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:53.240 and Heisenberg is studying under these different professors, So during 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:57.000 these years he has the ability to really pursue his 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:01.760 interests in theoretical physics and mathematic x. So uh, this 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.640 was on the in the nineteen twenties so, and so 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.320 was before even the Third Reich was coming into power 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.000 at all, right, right, So that these are in the 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.520 years between World War One and the Nazis rise to power. 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.920 So during those years, that's when Heisenberg was studying. And 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.560 while many of his professors would end up having to 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.320 flee or would be removed from their jobs at this time, 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.800 none of that was necessarily evident that that was going 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.240 to happen, So he spent his time really talking with 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.400 some of the leading thinkers of the day when it 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.760 comes to theoretical physics and mathematics, right um so Ine 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.400 he earned his PhD from the University of Munich and 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.080 um went to become an assistant to his old professor 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:45.680 Max Born at the University of getting and so in 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.360 ur he would go to the University of Copenhagen and 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:54.440 begin work with Niels Henrik David Bore, who was Danish, 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.600 not German, but a Danish physicist and uh and of 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.680 course he was really interested in atomic radiation and atomic structure, 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.760 and we talked about the Boor model of the ADAM 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.920 earlier in the podcast um so. In nineteen twenty six, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.280 Heisenberg would go to the University of Copenhagen for about 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.840 a year and then leave. But in ninety six there 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.560 was a position opening opening up at the University of 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:24.080 Copenhagen for a lecturer in theoretical physics. So Boor recommended Heisenberg, 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.080 thinking that Heisenberg was an up and coming leader in 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.880 this space, and so Heisenberg became the lecturer in theoretical 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:35.120 physics at the University of Copenhagen. Bore himself would be 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.440 at Copenhagen for quite some time until nineteen forty three, 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.920 where he would eventually flee to Sweden to escape the Nazis. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.120 Nineteen twenty five, that's when Heisenberg publishes his theory of 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:51.000 quantum mechanics. So he was of the ripe old age 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:55.320 of twenty three years old. Twenty three years old, and 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.960 he is uh, he is he is presenting a complete 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:05.119 lee um. Well, he's presenting his own, his own perspective 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.360 on what quantum mechanics actually is. As we'll see, that 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:12.560 ends up getting kind of um assimilated into a unified 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.960 view by looking at some some other theories that Heisenberg 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.840 did not necessarily agree with at the time. Yep, Nope, 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.520 not so much at all. As it turns out, physicists, 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.280 like any other type of human being, can occasionally get 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:31.520 very married to specific ideas and maybe a little bit snarky. Yeah, 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:35.200 there's some there's some great quotes that will be reading it. Yeah, 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.160 but yeah, it turns out that not everybody agreed on 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.080 the behavior of particles at that level because they were 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.320 first of all, there was no way to really directly 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.880 observe them, so it's all hypothetical, and it was mostly 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.440 things like, your equations are are not as easy to 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.800 understand my equations, therefore my equations are better. That kind 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.160 of thing. In fact, that really is one of the arguments. 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.840 So in now seven, at the age of twenty six, 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.040 you know, he's he's definitely hitting that that middle age 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.480 there for physicists. Twenty six years old, he becomes the 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.159 professor of theoretical physics at the University of Leipzig, and 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.119 this made him the youngest full professor in Germany at 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.040 the time, so he was certainly making a name for 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:24.040 himself in the in the academic world. In ninety nine 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.160 he goes on a lecture tour of the United States 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:31.240 and Japan and India uh and in nineteen thirty two 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.000 he receives the Nobel Prize in Physics for his discovery 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.240 of the allotropic forms of hydrogen. It was is for 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.760 from that paper that he had published about quantum mechanics. 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.840 Out of that one of the applications was this discovery. Right, So, 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.399 in case you're wondering what the heck is an allotrope 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.160 it's a different structural modification of an element. So let's 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.639 take carbon. Carbon is a great example. When you have 0:17:55.880 --> 0:18:00.240 a certain structure of carbon, it forms graphite. Difference utra 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.760 of carbon forms diamond too, slightly different substances. Yeah, these 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:09.040 these different, these different manifestations of the same element. I mean, 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.120 it's it's the exact same element. It's just the way 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.280 that it's been or the way that it arranges itself 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.920 determines its qualities. And graphite and diamond are like nine 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.919 day They're incredibly different. So that's what an allotrope is 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.480 is these different manifestations of an element that have very 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:31.840 different qualities. With the case of hydrogen, we're talking about 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:36.480 ortho hydrogen and parahydrogen. Don't ask me what that actually means, 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:40.040 because I'm not a physicist or a chemist, so I 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.119 am incapable of answering me neither I am. I'm at 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.679 a loss there, but I do know that in ninety seven, 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.040 Heisenberg married Elizabeth Schumacher, who he would go on to 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.040 have seven children with over the course of their marriage. Wow. 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.760 Now this is also the time when we're starting to 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:58.320 see the Nazis come into power. In World War two, 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.719 is beginning, and this was this becomes a pretty muddy 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:07.760 area of Heisenberg's life because it's hard to know which 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.399 historical records are the most accurate. Right There's there's a 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.639 lot of contention within the historical community about um, what 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:20.720 exactly Heisenberg's personal views and um and roles were in 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.200 all of this. He had become the target of of 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:31.000 Johannes Stark. N I'm just apologized with our English, our 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.600 English pronunciation in German pronunciation are different and and and 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.760 to be fair, the vocal downside of my family is 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:42.000 is really more like Polish Russian. So Johannes Stark was 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.800 also a physicist, but he was and he was a 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.720 physicist in fact who in his UH in the twenties 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.080 had published a paper by Einstein. He had actually um 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.040 Uh solicited Einstein to write a paper for the publication 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.240 that he was editing, and it was a publication that 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:04.280 would avenge Lee lead Einstein to ruminate upon the general 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.199 theory of relativity. It was sort of a kind of 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:11.000 a precursor to his general theory, which meant that in 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.600 a way, Johannes Stark was very much part of what 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.439 made Einstein a worldwide phenomenon. Now, the reason why I 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.760 say that's really interesting, or perhaps he might even say ironic, 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:27.120 is that Johannes Stark would align himself with the Nazi regime. 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:31.960 He wanted essentially to be the fewer of physics, which 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.920 is that's I mean, that's exactly the way I saw 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.240 it worded when I was reading the biography, which is 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:41.919 kind of terrifying. But he he also aligned himself with 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:46.200 the Deutsche Physics movement, the the German physics movement, and 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:51.480 he said that because Heisenberg continued to teach Einstein's theories 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.800 in the classroom, in Einstein's theories, of course we're not 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:58.240 part of this Deutsche physics uh movement, that he was 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.800 what what Stark would call a white Jew or an 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.159 arian Jew, someone who is not Jewish by heritage but 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.800 is by association because he continues to teach these thoughts 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.680 that Jewish mathematicians and physicists had come up with originated, 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.520 so that somehow that meant that he was a traitor. 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:23.760 So um so. Stark was very much opposed to Heisenberg 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.800 and didn't feel that Heisenberg should should have any sort 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.440 of position of authority that did not stop Heisenberg from 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:35.040 having that position. He was obviously very important to the 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:38.160 university and was one of the few protected. Of course, 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:40.040 part of it was that he did not actually have 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.440 any Jewish ancestry that anyone could determine, so that kept 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:47.840 him somewhat safe, right sure, um. You know, there's part 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:49.879 of the debate about Eisenberg is is whether or not 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:54.960 he um he stayed in order to uh to help 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.840 preserve Germany's scientific and cultural communities, or whether he was 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:02.680 actually working for Nazi Party. Um. He he was made 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:06.280 the director of the German Adam bomb project and spent 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.399 about five years working on that, supposedly, during which another 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.159 portion of the debate is whether he was working towards 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.720 a nuclear reactor or nuclear weapons, and no one is 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.879 really entirely sure Supposedly he gave a report to Nazi 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:23.560 official Albert spear Um that as of one or so, 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:25.639 it would take three or four years for them to 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.760 build a nuclear weapon, and that that is part of 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:31.880 why the Nazi Party said, I'll forget this nuclear weapon thing, 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:38.840 Let's go with nuclear reactors to help drive Sure, um 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:44.520 and uh so, but but you know that's that's There's 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.360 been other research um. For for example, one Paul Lawrence 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.520 Rose wrote an entire book called Heisenberg and the Nazi 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:56.360 Atomic Bomb Project that stated that uh, Heisenberg wasn't being 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:58.720 evasive to the Nazi Party, that rather, he was being 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:02.639 truthful due to a basic misunderstanding of the way that 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:05.600 nuclear fission worked, and that by the time he figured 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:08.680 it out, it was when the war was already winding 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:11.720 down and he started to hear about the atrocities that 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:16.520 the Nazi Party had committed and kind of reactively recreated 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.959 this image of himself as as having been an anti 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:22.399 Nazi the entire time. And that's the thing is that 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:24.639 it's it's impossible for us to say one way or 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:28.200 the other because there are conflicting reports and and really 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:31.919 it's you know, it's just it's a it's a difficult thing. Again, 0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:35.400 once again, we take our our our podcasting hats off 0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:37.880 to our sister podcast stuff you missed in history class 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:39.680 that deals with this kind of stuff all the time, 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:42.639 oh sure, And and especially you know, everything surrounding the 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:45.480 Nazi Party is incredibly sticky. Um. You know, some of 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.640 my favorite favorite stories about that time or stuff like 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:51.320 like like like Lenie Reefenstahl, who was one of them, 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:56.919 who was the propagandist or documentary filmmaker for the Nazi Party, 0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.560 and I mean she she took tea with Hitler frequently 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:02.920 and has claimed forever that she never knew about the 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.800 atrocities that were going on. And so it's it's it's 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:08.520 one of those things like who do you believe? Yeah, 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:12.560 and uh, you know, getting back into into the what 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:16.760 Heisenberg was going through at this time. So there is 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:19.440 there's an argument to be made that he was trying 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:24.520 to preserve the scientific community in Germany as best he could, 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:26.840 because there were others who were also trying to do that. 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:31.040 Max Planck, for example, was also trying to um to 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:35.680 do that. Although Plank had hoped that the the rise 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:39.240 of the Nazis was just a temporary kind of kerfuffle 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:43.359 and that it wasn't going to balloon into this incredible 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:47.560