1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from stuff 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: dot com either everyone, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm 3 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren vocal And today we're going 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: to look at a person who has a really important role. 5 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: We're looking at Heisenberg. So he started off as Walter White, 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: just a mild mannered chemistry teacher, but then eventually discovered 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: that he was cancer and that he was what Werner Heisenberg. 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: Oh all right, well, um Werner Heisenberg. Right. Uh, I'm 9 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: just not sure about this topic. Heisenberg, right, okay, wait, 10 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 1: I think I have some notes on him too. Are 11 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: you this He was born on December n Yes, that 12 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: one the physicist. Yes, the famous theoretical physicist. Al Right, well, 13 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: all right, maybe I won't get a geek out about 14 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: breaking bad, but that's fine. We can talk about Vernon Heisenberg. 15 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: I like that your German pronunciation is better than the 16 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: lady with the last name vocal Bomb. That's pretty that's 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: pretty great. Um, so born on December five night, you know, 18 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: one in Verzberg. Uh and yeah, Heisenberg has played an 19 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: incredibly important role in the establishment that that's the foundations 20 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: of what is quantum mechanics. Right, if you've heard of 21 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: something something called the uncertainty principle, that is a k A. 22 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, that that is, he is the operative Heisenberg. 23 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: In this we will explain what that uncertainty principle is 24 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: in certain terms, but that will be towards the second 25 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: half of the podcast. First, we wanted to kind of 26 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: talk about who he was, sort of his background. His 27 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: father was an expert in Middle and modern Greek languages. 28 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: That's a Dr. August Heisenberg. His mother there was any 29 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: wink line, winklin, wink lin, was it wy? There's no 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: w sound in German. It's um. Yeah, so vs or 31 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: fs and and w s or vs. That's easy to remember, simple, 32 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: all right, Yeah, so yeah, he he um. It's funny 33 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: because I understand that his his own background in Greek, 34 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: his father was an expert in Greek. His own background 35 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: in Greek meant that when they got to the point 36 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: where physicists were starting to name theoretical and he would 37 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: correct people's use of Greek, saying things like, you cannot 38 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: spell it this way because that's not how it would 39 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: be actually spelled. If such a thing existed in the 40 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: Greek language. So so he was, um, you know, helping 41 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: us stay on the rails as far as the use 42 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: of Greek. Right while he was growing up, when he 43 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: was twelve, that is when Neil's Bore presented his general 44 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: theory of of quantum existence. Yes, so Bore would be 45 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: incredibly important during Heiss education. But Niels Boor also known 46 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: for making the Boor model of the atom. So that 47 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: was the model the atom that suggested that you had 48 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: a central nucleus and then electrons that were ordering that nucleus. Yeah, 49 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: so that's you know, anyone who's taken any any class 50 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: in chemistry or physics has seen the Boor model. It's 51 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: still one of those things that um usually is. It's 52 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: part of the history of the development of particle physics 53 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: and quantum mechanics. Right, we we know now that it's 54 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: a little bit um simplified. Yeah. In fact, Heisenberg would 55 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: go on exactly right, Uh, he was while he was 56 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: in high school. There was a major event that played 57 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: out across the entire world and particularly in Europe, World 58 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: War One. Yeah. World War One happened between nineteen fourteen 59 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: and nineteen eighteen. Some of Heisenberg's academic contemporaries, or not 60 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: even contemporaries. Some of his mentors had actually served in 61 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: World War One, various officers in the military. Right. Right, 62 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: Heisenberg himself had to leave school, leave high school to 63 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: go help harvest crops in Bavaria at the time, and um, 64 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: by by the time he got back after the war, 65 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: he was deeply involved in youth groups like the New 66 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts. That we're trying to rebuild the science and 67 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: artistic culture in Germany. Right, So keep in mind, like 68 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: at this time in Germany, things are really tumultuous. I mean, 69 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: World War One was already one of those events that 70 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: that played upon certain sentiments in Germany, and after the 71 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: war was concluded, that got even more messy because you 72 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: had the rest of the world, uh, you know, trying 73 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: to deal with this situation and make sure that it 74 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: could not happen again. I mean, this was one of 75 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: those wars that no one really expected whatever happened, because 76 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: the idea was that everyone would be building up their 77 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: armies to a point that anyone would be crazy to 78 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: attack anyone else. And as it turns out, humans are crazy, y'all. 79 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: So um, yeah, we it was. It was one of 80 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: those things where where as in an attempt to prevent 81 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: this from happening again, there were a lot of reparations 82 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: demanded against Germany. This in turn ended up fueling a 83 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: lot of resentment in Germany and would eventually give the 84 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: Nazi movement sort of kind of foothold. Yeah, exactly, it 85 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: gave them that that that place to build some support, 86 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: because you had all these Germans who felt that uh, 87 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: that their lives had been ruined as a result of 88 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: the actions that followed World War One. Now that plays 89 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: a big role in Heisenberg's life because this is also 90 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: a time when physicists are making incredible discoveries. We are 91 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: learning more about the quantum world, that that atomic scale 92 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: world than ever before. The instruments that were being made 93 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: were becoming precise enough for us to look at things 94 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: on a level that we never could have seen before. 95 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: So there is a figurative explosion in physics at this time, 96 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: and a lot of and sometimes literal explosions. But a 97 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: lot of the physicists that were active at this time, 98 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: particularly in Germany, were of Jewish descent. Now, of course, 99 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: that would cause play another important role once we talk 100 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: about the rise of the Nazi movement and the entry 101 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: into World War two. Obviously that's going to to really 102 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: shake things up. But before we get to that point, 103 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: we talk more a little about about Heisenberg's educational background. 104 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: Once World War One had concluded, he attended the Maximilian 105 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: School at Munich and then eventually the University of Munich. 106 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: He originally went to study math, but according to reports, 107 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: a professor wouldn't let him into an advanced seminar, and 108 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: that's when he switched to physics. And just imagine what 109 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: the world would be like without that, I mean, quantum physics, 110 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: for example, might have a very different approach, particularly when 111 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: you start talking about people like Schrodinger. And we will 112 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: and maybe we'll even mention his cat so uh. At 113 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: the university, he studied physics with professors like Arnold Johannes 114 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: Wilhelm Sommerfeld, who was a theoretical physicist. Uh. He was 115 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: a physicist who would stay on teaching even during World 116 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: War two. So he stayed in Germany and continued to teach. 117 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: He did get a little upset that the more than 118 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: a little upset that his departments were being completely yet 119 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: purged of anyone who had any sort of Jewish background, 120 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: whether they self identified as Jewish or if they had 121 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: maybe an ancestor three generations back who was Jewish. Sure 122 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: also um According to some reports, the Nazis considered the 123 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: theoretical physics as a field to be Jewish. Yes, yes, 124 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: because there were there were so many Jewish thinkers who 125 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: were the leaders of theoretical physics that the Nazis looked 126 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: down upon the entire discipline as being some thing that 127 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: was impure and should be completely purged. And in fact, 128 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: instead they wanted to have Deutsche physique that's German physics 129 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: as a study as opposed to theoretical physics, so that 130 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: would also disrupt the advances that could have happened during 131 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: that time. Another professor was Wilhelm Karl Ferna Otto, Fritz 132 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: fran Vin. You're just enjoying saying these names, aren't you, 133 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: Wilhelm Wien is usually how we we say that, But yes, 134 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: you're the answer to that question is yes, I love 135 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: I love saying German names. Uh. He was a physicist 136 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: and he focused on black body radiation and electromagnetics magnetism 137 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: rather and he passed away in n so he died 138 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: before World War Two began. He died before the Nazis 139 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: had really taken control of Germany. Um there was Alfred 140 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: Pringsheim who was a professor of mathematics and had Jewish roots. 141 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: During the Nazi regime, he would see his entire fortune 142 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: taken from him. Everything he had inherited a huge fortune, 143 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: and every rething he owned was taken by the Nazis. 144 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: He was eventually forced to change his name to Alfred 145 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: Israel drinks him because of his Jewish ancestry. One wonderfully racist, 146 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: you know. The Nazis were not known for being subtle 147 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: with the way that they treated any one of Jewish heritage. 148 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: And then a fourth professor was Arthur Rosenthal, who had 149 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: a focus on geometry as well as dynamical systems, also 150 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: had Jewish roots. He would be forced from his position 151 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty six by the Nazis and would eventually 152 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: immigrate to the United States and nineteen nine and taught 153 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: at the University of Michigan, which has come up a 154 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: lot in our conversations recently because that's where I went to. 155 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: But he taught the University of Michigan. Then eventually taught 156 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: at the University of New Mexico and then later at 157 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: Purdue University. So these were the four professors who really 158 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: kind of sparked Heisenberg's fascination with physics and mathematics, and 159 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: this is founding in in those subjects exactly, so Somerfeld, Veen, Pringsheim, 160 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: and Rosenthal Uh. Then in nineteen two Heisenberg went to 161 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: Goodingen Goodingen as a University of Goodingen to study physics 162 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: under some more famous physicists, including Max Bourne, whose focus 163 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: was on quantum mechanics, particularly in statistical interpretation of the 164 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: wave functioned, which we will talk about again and a 165 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: little bit because Schrodinger was definitely a wave functioned guy. 166 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: As it turns out, Heisenberg was different. He did not 167 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: really look at the wave function of quantum physics. He 168 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: was looking at something else. And now I'll explain that 169 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: when we get there, because that's fun for me. Um 170 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: Born Max Boorne was also the director of theoretical physics 171 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: at the university and was Jewish, so he immigrated to 172 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom when the Nazis came into power in 173 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: Germany and continued to research particle physics. Well, well, not 174 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: quite particle physics, quantum physics, and theoretical physics, as well 175 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: as teaching in UK. Then you had James Frank, who 176 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: was a physicistant, studied atomic and subatomic collisions, particularly electrons 177 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: colliding with adams, and also was of Jewish heritage. So 178 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: he would leave Germany in nineteen thirty three for the 179 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: United States and would later participate in what was known 180 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: as the Manhattan Project. We could do a full episode 181 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: on the Manhattan Project. That. Yeah, it's an amazing story. Um. 182 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: And here's another great story with James Frank. So he 183 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: won the Nobel Prize in NT for physics. He left 184 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: the gold medal, the Nobel Prize medal back in Germany 185 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: when he left to essentially flee to the United States. Uh. 186 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: There was another physicist named George de Heavnasy and I 187 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: know I'm saying that name wrong, so I greatly apologize. 188 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: But for once, we're talking about someone who's not German, 189 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: so I can't say his name, but he he in 190 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: order to protect this gold medal from being taken by 191 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: the Nazis and melted down, he dissolved the metal and 192 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: acid and then put the solution on a shelf so 193 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: it's a solution with dissolved gold on the shelf. World 194 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: War two is over, he goes back, the solution is 195 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: still on the shelf. He then precipitates that solution, precipitating 196 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: the gold out of the acid and used the gold 197 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: to melt it back into the metal and meant a 198 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: new and meant a new metal so that they can 199 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: give it uh back to James Frank. So that I 200 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: thought was a really cool story. Then there's another professor 201 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: he studied under was David Hilbert, was a mathematician who 202 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: focused on geometry and functional analysis, who retired in nine 203 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: so he lived to see the Nazis purge Germany of 204 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: Jewish mathematicians and physicists, and was later asked at a 205 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: state dinner. He was actually asked a question about what 206 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: was the state of mathematics after it had been quote 207 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: unquote freed of Jewish influence, and his response was, there's 208 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: no study of mathematics anymore. He was essentially saying that 209 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: the actions of the Nazi had effectively into the entire 210 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: field because they had they had removed or or had 211 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: caused to flee all of the leading thinkers and instead 212 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: of including like Einstein. So they were turning mathematics and 213 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: science into a political thing, and by doing that, they 214 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: were saying that these other things that did not fit 215 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: that political regime as invalid. And that's not the way 216 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: science works, not the way mathematics works, but that's how 217 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: they were demanding it. It can be a very effective 218 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: means of controlling a population by controlling their education. But 219 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: also it also ends up meaning that you you really you, 220 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: you just throw a huge monkey wrench and into any 221 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: kind of advancement in those fields. So before World War two, 222 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: this is, this is all happening before World War two, 223 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: and Heisenberg is studying under these different professors, So during 224 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: these years he has the ability to really pursue his 225 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: interests in theoretical physics and mathematic x. So uh, this 226 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: was on the in the nineteen twenties so, and so 227 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: was before even the Third Reich was coming into power 228 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: at all, right, right, So that these are in the 229 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: years between World War One and the Nazis rise to power. 230 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: So during those years, that's when Heisenberg was studying. And 231 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: while many of his professors would end up having to 232 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: flee or would be removed from their jobs at this time, 233 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: none of that was necessarily evident that that was going 234 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: to happen, So he spent his time really talking with 235 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: some of the leading thinkers of the day when it 236 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: comes to theoretical physics and mathematics, right um so Ine 237 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: he earned his PhD from the University of Munich and 238 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: um went to become an assistant to his old professor 239 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: Max Born at the University of getting and so in 240 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: ur he would go to the University of Copenhagen and 241 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: begin work with Niels Henrik David Bore, who was Danish, 242 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: not German, but a Danish physicist and uh and of 243 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: course he was really interested in atomic radiation and atomic structure, 244 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: and we talked about the Boor model of the ADAM 245 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: earlier in the podcast um so. In nineteen twenty six, 246 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: Heisenberg would go to the University of Copenhagen for about 247 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: a year and then leave. But in ninety six there 248 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: was a position opening opening up at the University of 249 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: Copenhagen for a lecturer in theoretical physics. So Boor recommended Heisenberg, 250 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: thinking that Heisenberg was an up and coming leader in 251 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: this space, and so Heisenberg became the lecturer in theoretical 252 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: physics at the University of Copenhagen. Bore himself would be 253 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: at Copenhagen for quite some time until nineteen forty three, 254 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: where he would eventually flee to Sweden to escape the Nazis. 255 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: Nineteen twenty five, that's when Heisenberg publishes his theory of 256 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics. So he was of the ripe old age 257 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: of twenty three years old. Twenty three years old, and 258 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: he is uh, he is he is presenting a complete 259 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,119 Speaker 1: lee um. Well, he's presenting his own, his own perspective 260 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: on what quantum mechanics actually is. As we'll see, that 261 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: ends up getting kind of um assimilated into a unified 262 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: view by looking at some some other theories that Heisenberg 263 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: did not necessarily agree with at the time. Yep, Nope, 264 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: not so much at all. As it turns out, physicists, 265 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: like any other type of human being, can occasionally get 266 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: very married to specific ideas and maybe a little bit snarky. Yeah, 267 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: there's some there's some great quotes that will be reading it. Yeah, 268 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: but yeah, it turns out that not everybody agreed on 269 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: the behavior of particles at that level because they were 270 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: first of all, there was no way to really directly 271 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: observe them, so it's all hypothetical, and it was mostly 272 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: things like, your equations are are not as easy to 273 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: understand my equations, therefore my equations are better. That kind 274 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: of thing. In fact, that really is one of the arguments. 275 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: So in now seven, at the age of twenty six, 276 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, he's he's definitely hitting that that middle age 277 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: there for physicists. Twenty six years old, he becomes the 278 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: professor of theoretical physics at the University of Leipzig, and 279 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: this made him the youngest full professor in Germany at 280 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: the time, so he was certainly making a name for 281 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: himself in the in the academic world. In ninety nine 282 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: he goes on a lecture tour of the United States 283 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: and Japan and India uh and in nineteen thirty two 284 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: he receives the Nobel Prize in Physics for his discovery 285 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: of the allotropic forms of hydrogen. It was is for 286 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: from that paper that he had published about quantum mechanics. 287 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: Out of that one of the applications was this discovery. Right, So, 288 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: in case you're wondering what the heck is an allotrope 289 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: it's a different structural modification of an element. So let's 290 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: take carbon. Carbon is a great example. When you have 291 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: a certain structure of carbon, it forms graphite. Difference utra 292 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: of carbon forms diamond too, slightly different substances. Yeah, these 293 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: these different, these different manifestations of the same element. I mean, 294 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: it's it's the exact same element. It's just the way 295 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: that it's been or the way that it arranges itself 296 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: determines its qualities. And graphite and diamond are like nine 297 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: day They're incredibly different. So that's what an allotrope is 298 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: is these different manifestations of an element that have very 299 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: different qualities. With the case of hydrogen, we're talking about 300 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: ortho hydrogen and parahydrogen. Don't ask me what that actually means, 301 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: because I'm not a physicist or a chemist, so I 302 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: am incapable of answering me neither I am. I'm at 303 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: a loss there, but I do know that in ninety seven, 304 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: Heisenberg married Elizabeth Schumacher, who he would go on to 305 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: have seven children with over the course of their marriage. Wow. 306 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: Now this is also the time when we're starting to 307 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: see the Nazis come into power. In World War two, 308 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 1: is beginning, and this was this becomes a pretty muddy 309 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: area of Heisenberg's life because it's hard to know which 310 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: historical records are the most accurate. Right There's there's a 311 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: lot of contention within the historical community about um, what 312 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: exactly Heisenberg's personal views and um and roles were in 313 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: all of this. He had become the target of of 314 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: Johannes Stark. N I'm just apologized with our English, our 315 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: English pronunciation in German pronunciation are different and and and 316 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: to be fair, the vocal downside of my family is 317 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: is really more like Polish Russian. So Johannes Stark was 318 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: also a physicist, but he was and he was a 319 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: physicist in fact who in his UH in the twenties 320 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: had published a paper by Einstein. He had actually um 321 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: Uh solicited Einstein to write a paper for the publication 322 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: that he was editing, and it was a publication that 323 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: would avenge Lee lead Einstein to ruminate upon the general 324 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: theory of relativity. It was sort of a kind of 325 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: a precursor to his general theory, which meant that in 326 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: a way, Johannes Stark was very much part of what 327 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: made Einstein a worldwide phenomenon. Now, the reason why I 328 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: say that's really interesting, or perhaps he might even say ironic, 329 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: is that Johannes Stark would align himself with the Nazi regime. 330 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: He wanted essentially to be the fewer of physics, which 331 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: is that's I mean, that's exactly the way I saw 332 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: it worded when I was reading the biography, which is 333 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: kind of terrifying. But he he also aligned himself with 334 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: the Deutsche Physics movement, the the German physics movement, and 335 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: he said that because Heisenberg continued to teach Einstein's theories 336 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: in the classroom, in Einstein's theories, of course we're not 337 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: part of this Deutsche physics uh movement, that he was 338 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: what what Stark would call a white Jew or an 339 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: arian Jew, someone who is not Jewish by heritage but 340 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: is by association because he continues to teach these thoughts 341 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: that Jewish mathematicians and physicists had come up with originated, 342 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: so that somehow that meant that he was a traitor. 343 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: So um so. Stark was very much opposed to Heisenberg 344 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: and didn't feel that Heisenberg should should have any sort 345 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: of position of authority that did not stop Heisenberg from 346 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: having that position. He was obviously very important to the 347 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: university and was one of the few protected. Of course, 348 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: part of it was that he did not actually have 349 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: any Jewish ancestry that anyone could determine, so that kept 350 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: him somewhat safe, right sure, um. You know, there's part 351 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: of the debate about Eisenberg is is whether or not 352 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: he um he stayed in order to uh to help 353 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: preserve Germany's scientific and cultural communities, or whether he was 354 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: actually working for Nazi Party. Um. He he was made 355 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: the director of the German Adam bomb project and spent 356 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: about five years working on that, supposedly, during which another 357 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: portion of the debate is whether he was working towards 358 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: a nuclear reactor or nuclear weapons, and no one is 359 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: really entirely sure Supposedly he gave a report to Nazi 360 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: official Albert spear Um that as of one or so, 361 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: it would take three or four years for them to 362 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: build a nuclear weapon, and that that is part of 363 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: why the Nazi Party said, I'll forget this nuclear weapon thing, 364 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: Let's go with nuclear reactors to help drive Sure, um 365 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: and uh so, but but you know that's that's There's 366 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: been other research um. For for example, one Paul Lawrence 367 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: Rose wrote an entire book called Heisenberg and the Nazi 368 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: Atomic Bomb Project that stated that uh, Heisenberg wasn't being 369 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: evasive to the Nazi Party, that rather, he was being 370 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: truthful due to a basic misunderstanding of the way that 371 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: nuclear fission worked, and that by the time he figured 372 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: it out, it was when the war was already winding 373 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: down and he started to hear about the atrocities that 374 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party had committed and kind of reactively recreated 375 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 1: this image of himself as as having been an anti 376 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: Nazi the entire time. And that's the thing is that 377 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: it's it's impossible for us to say one way or 378 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: the other because there are conflicting reports and and really 379 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's just it's a it's a difficult thing. Again, 380 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: once again, we take our our our podcasting hats off 381 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: to our sister podcast stuff you missed in history class 382 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: that deals with this kind of stuff all the time, 383 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: oh sure, And and especially you know, everything surrounding the 384 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: Nazi Party is incredibly sticky. Um. You know, some of 385 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 1: my favorite favorite stories about that time or stuff like 386 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: like like like Lenie Reefenstahl, who was one of them, 387 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 1: who was the propagandist or documentary filmmaker for the Nazi Party, 388 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: and I mean she she took tea with Hitler frequently 389 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: and has claimed forever that she never knew about the 390 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: atrocities that were going on. And so it's it's it's 391 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: one of those things like who do you believe? Yeah, 392 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, getting back into into the what 393 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: Heisenberg was going through at this time. So there is 394 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: there's an argument to be made that he was trying 395 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: to preserve the scientific community in Germany as best he could, 396 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: because there were others who were also trying to do that. 397 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: Max Planck, for example, was also trying to um to 398 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: do that. Although Plank had hoped that the the rise 399 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: of the Nazis was just a temporary kind of kerfuffle 400 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: and that it wasn't going to balloon into this incredible 401 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: conflict that would span the entire globe, he just had 402 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: no he had no concept of that actually happening. So 403 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: he had decided to stay and to try and keep 404 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: the German departments of mathematics and physics as intact as possible. 405 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: So it could be that that's the case, we honestly 406 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: don't know. In nineteen forty one, Heisenberg becomes the professor 407 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: of physics at the University of Berlin and the director 408 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: of the Kaiservillehelm Institute for Physics. And in nineteen forty 409 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: five Heisenberg is taken prisoner by American troops and is 410 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: sent to England. Uh. He's freed in nineteen forty six 411 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: and returns to Germany and helps rebuild the Institute for 412 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: Physics at Guttingen, and then UH that eventually becomes the 413 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: Max Planck Institute for Physics, which would eventually relocate and 414 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: I believe, I believe Heisenberg personally renamed the institute them 415 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: on Max Planck ins and UH. He would continue to 416 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: travel and give lectures about his work, in fact doing 417 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: so almost right up to when he died. He died 418 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: in on February one, nineteen seventy six, after developing cancer. 419 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: So he was very much active in the world of 420 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: lectures and academia well after the end of World War Two. Yeah. Um, 421 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: towards the end of his life he became interested in 422 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: plasma physics and a thermonuclear processes. So see it's uh, 423 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's certainly one of those interesting timelines, and 424 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: in a moment we're going to really dive into what 425 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: his contributions were in the field of quantum mechanics and 426 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: give a full explanation, or as as full as we 427 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: possibly can make it, of what the uncertainty principle is 428 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: all about, as well as why it's important in technology, 429 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: because yes, this does have to do with tech. It's 430 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: just gonna take us a while to get there. But 431 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: before we jump into that, let's take a quick break 432 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: to thank our sponsor. All Right, so now it's time 433 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: to dive into quantum mechanics. I gotta tell you, I'm 434 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: not really certain about this. I'm just gonna keep making 435 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: that joke excellent until it's funny. Um. So, yeah, he was. 436 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: Heisenberg had worked in theoretical physics and quantum mechanics during 437 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: the early early days of the discipline, and he was 438 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: particularly interested in studying the radiation from an atom. But 439 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: here's the thing that he was also interested in seeing 440 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: what was actually observable. You know, really look at the 441 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: atom and see what you could actually see it. Because 442 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: we had all these hypothetical, uh particles, in these theoretical particles, 443 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: things that that should exist based upon the math involved. 444 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: But but but the signs at the time was based 445 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: on on bombarding these these tiny, tiny, tiny sub atomic 446 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 1: particles with um with things like gamma radiation and then 447 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: observing what we could observe, right, And so he began 448 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: to differentiate between what you could observe and what you 449 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: could not, and then he started to notice things. He 450 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: said that, you know, we can't really always assign a 451 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: position in space to a specific electron at any given time, 452 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: and we can't follow electrons around their orbits. It's it's 453 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: not like a planetary orbit that we can watch continuously, right, 454 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: It's more like there's an area that an electron could 455 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: be in, as opposed to we can specifically point out 456 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: that this is where the electron is at any given moment, 457 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: or this is the direction it is traveling at any 458 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: given moment. And this would start to plant the seed 459 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: in his mind for the uncertainty principle. So first he 460 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: said that, you know, bores postulation that the the the 461 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: orbits of electrons are around the nucleus was more or 462 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: less correct. You couldn't actually be certain of what those 463 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: orbits were because the unobservable nature of these. Yeah, there's 464 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: just no way to assign a figure to this. You 465 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: can't say the electron is in uh, this particular quadrant 466 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: around the nucleus UM, and you couldn't talk about really 467 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: the electron's velocity either. Velocity, by the way, is speed 468 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: plus direction, right, And so he started to say that 469 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: instead of using um classic numbers, the kinds of numbers 470 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: that we would use to describe human scale physics, that 471 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: that we needed to use UM matrices. Yeah, and a 472 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: matrix is essentially an abstract mathematical structure. So uh, this 473 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: was almost like talking about probabilities. It's it's kind of fuzzy, 474 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: it's not specific, it's not precise. And in fact, that 475 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: was Heisenberg's argument, was that precision is something that you 476 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: could strive for, but you were never ever going to get. Uh. 477 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: He kind of arrived at this gradually. So in ninety 478 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: six he was involved in a bit of a spat, 479 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: a debate, if you will, about a theoretical spat actually 480 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: was real spat about theory, uh, but it was on. 481 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: So you had two sides to this debate. You had 482 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: Heisenberg and his his fellow physicists who thought of quantum 483 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: mechanics in the term of these matrices, these this abstract 484 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: mathematic uh way of describing the position or motion of 485 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: an electron, because again he was arguing that you could 486 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: not define it in a way that was like it's 487 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: at x, y and z coordinates. You could not do 488 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: that was using the matrix. And there was another set 489 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: of scientists who were trying to describe some atomic particles 490 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: as as waves the way that we would electromagnetic radiation, 491 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: um like our own Schrodinger, Yeah, Schrodinger, SCHRODINGERTI is kitty cat, 492 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: actually Schroedinger and the cat story is kind of interesting. 493 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: Just a little side notes. So you've probably heard of 494 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: Schrodinger's cat, where Schrodinger was, uh, kind of giving a 495 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: thought experiment kind of thing to explain how how this 496 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: this other form, the matrix form of quantum mechanics is 497 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: a little weird. The idea that you have a cat 498 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: inside a box, and inside that box you also have 499 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: a little canister with poisonous gas in it, and there's 500 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: some explosive that has a that that will go off 501 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: at some point, and I am giving a variation very 502 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: classic overview. So so within half an hour there's a 503 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: fifty percent chance that the explosive inside that canister has 504 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: gone off and released the poisonous gas and little killed 505 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: the cat. Yes, Kitty is no more. One life down, 506 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: eight to go. There's also a fifty percent chance that 507 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: the that the explosion has not yet happened, and that 508 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: Kitty is fine but possibly very bored inside this box. 509 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: And so the thing is that because of uh, this 510 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: this weird quantum effect, and keep in mind, this is 511 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: really something that only happens at the quantum level. When 512 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: you get up to the macro level that we see 513 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: this is not actually the case. But the idea is 514 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: that the cat is both alive and dead at the 515 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: same time, and superposition that has both states and superposition, 516 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: and it's only when you open up the box and 517 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: observe the cat that one of those two possibilities becomes true, 518 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: becomes true, and the other one just becomes yeah, it 519 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: goes away, and that then you have either the live 520 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: cat or the dead cat, So that the cat is 521 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: said to be alive and debt at the same time 522 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: until you observe it, and that's when reality snaps into 523 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: place and you suddenly get one of the two results. 524 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: And it was kind of a way of saying like 525 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: this is just, you know, kind of crazy. It's turned 526 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: out to be one of those things we always refer 527 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,959 Speaker 1: to anyway. So Schrotinger's cat and Heisenberg's N certainty principle 528 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: both are trying to explain various weird things about the 529 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: quantum level. There's another one that we can touch on 530 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: also that gets confused with Heisenberg's N certainty principle, which 531 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: is the idea that by observing something you actually affect 532 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: the outcome. So, in other words, when we're looking at 533 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: subatomic particles, simply shining light onto them affects their movement 534 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: because we're talking about photons impacting subatomic particles, which changes 535 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: the pathway, which means, just by taking an observation in 536 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: a measurement, you have changed what has what was going 537 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: to happen. So it makes it even more impossible to 538 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: predict things based upon the behaviors of stuff, because just 539 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: by observing it, you change what that outcome actually is. 540 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: Now that's not Heisenberg's ncertainty principle either, but of thing 541 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: gets confused. So we've got this debate, We've got the 542 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: wave mechanics debate, and that's Schrodinger's side, and we've got 543 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: the matrices debate, and that's Heisenberg's side. And the debate 544 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: was not always civil. Uh, there was there was. There 545 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: was a quote that Heisenberg made to another physicist, Wolfgang 546 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: Ernst Pauli, which was, the more I think about the 547 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: physical portion of Schrodinger's theory, the more repulsive I find 548 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: it what Schrodinger writes about the visualizability. Visualizability, Boy, that's 549 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: a hard word of his theory is probably not quite right. 550 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: In other words, it's crap thick burn. Yeah, that was 551 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: a little that was a little rough. So here's what 552 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: the difference was between these two. Schrodinger's approach require less 553 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: complicated math to explain the relationship of a sub atomic 554 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: particles movement and and and uh, it's it's position around 555 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: a nucleus, for example, an electron around the nucleus as 556 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: an example. And it fur themore X explained some of 557 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: the things that Heisenberg's theory couldn't really fully explain. It's 558 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: sort of it's sort of pushed them under the rug 559 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: in a way, because Heisenberg's approach showed that there were 560 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: these little quantum jumps leaps actually as if yes, exactly, 561 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: there's quantum leaps when you cannot quite solve the problem, 562 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: or you solve the problem and then you have to 563 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: leap into the next body and hopefully your next leap 564 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: is the one that takes you home. Uh No. In 565 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: this case, the quantum jumps were the fact that you 566 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: would see electrons behave in a weird way, like suddenly 567 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: an electron would behave as if it had a higher 568 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: amount of energy than it normally would, and that was, 569 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: you know, Heisenberg's approach showed these jumps well with Schroedinger's approach, 570 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 1: because we're talking about a continuous wave a wave function. 571 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: It smooths everything out, so you don't have these jagged, 572 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: you know jumps, you have just a smooth transition um. 573 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,839 Speaker 1: So the Schrodinger's argument was that, hey, you know, I've 574 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: looked at the way you are calculating this, and I 575 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,280 Speaker 1: look at the way I'm calculating this, and it turns 576 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: out the outcomes are the same. We're getting the same results, 577 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: but mine requires less complicated math and not all this 578 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: mathematic abstraction that you are insisting upon. So therefore I'm 579 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: right and you're wrong, or at least mine is more eloquent. 580 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: So you've got these two parties of physicists getting a 581 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: little caddy Schroedinger caddy. Perhaps um, there are alive cats 582 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: and percent dead cats. But then, uh, it's interesting because 583 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: you started getting into other physicists getting into the game, 584 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: including Ernst Pascal Jordan's or Jordans I suppose, who was 585 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: a German physicist who would actually later joined the Nazi 586 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: Party become part of that movement, in fact enlisted in 587 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: the Luftwaffe Um. And then you had Paul Derak, who 588 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: was an English physicist who both created unified equations that 589 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: took the wave function approach and the Matrice's approach and 590 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: combined them into what was called a transformation theory, which 591 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: is the very basis of quantum mechanics. So again this 592 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: is all theoretical. It's essentially trying physicists trying to figure 593 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: out how to to apply the same sort of observation 594 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: that they had in classical interpretation of physics on the 595 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: macro scale to the quantum level, which is the incredibly 596 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: tiny scale, the atomic or subatomic scale at which the 597 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: rules do not apply. Right. So, but the transformation theory 598 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: ended up showing that there was a combination of both 599 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: Schroedinger's approach and Heisenberg's approach the sort of wave particle 600 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: duality that we know about with quantum mechanics. That's kind 601 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: of what was coming out of this discussion. So instead 602 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: of them both saying no, I'm right, No, I'm right, 603 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: these guys are like, well, actually you're both right. Technically, yeah, 604 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,439 Speaker 1: light is a particle and a wave, and it gets boy, 605 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: toy doesn't get even more crazy, Like it seems magical 606 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: to those of us who are used to classical physics 607 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,479 Speaker 1: on that macro scale, because if things on the macro 608 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: scale behaved the same way that things in the quantum 609 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: scale behaved, it would be like we were living in 610 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: Harry Potter World or something right right there. There would 611 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: be a lot of a lot of you know, people 612 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: suddenly jumping to the left right, yeah, because you know, 613 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: or you could never really be sure where someone was 614 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: or how quickly they were moving and and emitting light 615 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,919 Speaker 1: when they did it. They'd be half dead and half 616 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: alive until you looked at them. Yeah, there's a whole 617 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: bunch of things that would be pretty bizarre. In our world. 618 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: So Heisenberg studied Jordan and Deracs papers and found that 619 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: there were problems whenever he tried to measure the basic 620 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: physical variables appearing in the equations. And by physical variables 621 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: I mean an electrons position and its momentum. So that 622 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: led Heisenberg to create the famous principle of uncertainty, which 623 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: he did in nine seven. We usually call that Heisenberg 624 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: uncertainty principle. So here's here's how it breaks down. The 625 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,720 Speaker 1: more precisely you determine the position of a sub atomic particle, 626 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: for example, an electron around the nucleus. So the more 627 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: precisely you determine its position, the less precisely you can 628 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: know about the moment momentum at that moment, and vice versa. 629 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: So if you more precisely determined the sub automic particle's momentum, 630 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: the less precisely you can know its actual position. Right um. 631 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: So specifically, he was saying that um that running the 632 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: calculation for this, for this determination of the position and 633 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: the momentum um necessarily contains errors, the product of which 634 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: physically cannot be less than the quantum constant h Planks constant, 635 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: which is the smallest unit the quantum of action in 636 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: an atom, right, And so what he's saying here is 637 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter how advanced your measurement apparatus is. 638 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: In fact, there was one point where More criticized Heisenberg's 639 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,839 Speaker 1: approach because he said that he was using essentially microscopes 640 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,359 Speaker 1: that were not precise enough, and in fact it made 641 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: an error, and then Heisenberg got really upset a bore, 642 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: and the two of them had a falling out that 643 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: lasted about a year, and then Heisenberg eventually wrote a 644 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: paper and acknowledge. He said, you know, Boor has criticized 645 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: this because of such and such an acknowledge that in 646 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: fact there was an error, but said that ultimately that 647 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: error was beside the point because it would not matter 648 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: how precise that was. The fact remained that the more 649 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,959 Speaker 1: you would learn about one thing, the less you could 650 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: know about the other. That's the uncertainty. Or complementaryanism is 651 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: another way that some people have said that there's this 652 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: complementary relationship between the momentum and the position. So in 653 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: case you want to know what momentum is, that's mass 654 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: times velocity, velocities that speed and direction. So that's important 655 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: to know. So on the human scale, this uncertainty is 656 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: completely negligible. There's you might as well just throw it 657 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: out the window because on our scale it just doesn't 658 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: that it doesn't factor into it. It's such a tiny thing. 659 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: But when you look at the smaller scales, this tiny, 660 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 1: tiny thing becomes huge because you're looking at things on 661 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: an incredibly small scale. And because we can't know but 662 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: with precision both a sub atomics particles a position and 663 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: its momentum, we cannot really make predictions about what's going 664 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: to happen in the future. And in fact, uh this 665 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: is where Heisenberg says causality becomes a problem because if 666 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: you cannot determine that sub atomic particles position and momentum, 667 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 1: you cannot actually know what's going to happen next. So 668 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: if you were to expand this out, now this is 669 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: this is to the absurd, But if you were to 670 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: expand this out, you could say that you cannot for 671 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: certain know that by doing a certain action a particular 672 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: effect is going to follow. That's not really the case 673 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 1: with classical physics again because we're talking about the macro scale, 674 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: but on the qualm scale, that's the case, we cannot 675 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: really know what will happen from one moment to the 676 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,280 Speaker 1: next because we can't know enough about all the factors 677 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: to make that determination, which is which is kind of 678 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: wonderful and kind of terrifying right simultaneously. And now it's 679 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: a cat in a box, yep. And and this also 680 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,839 Speaker 1: ties into that observation problem, right because if we even 681 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 1: if we observe the phenomenon, then we're affecting the phenomens. 682 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: We're making it even more impossible to determine what the 683 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: effect is going to be. The cause and effect at 684 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 1: the scale is something that becomes pure really theoretical, because 685 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: as soon as you try and apply practical approaches to it, 686 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: it all breaks down. And we promise this really does 687 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,439 Speaker 1: relate directly to technology. We're getting there. So we then 688 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: show that light can be interpreted as both wave functions 689 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: and as a particle. That's with Boor and Heisenberg together working, 690 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: they were able to kind of come to this conclusion. 691 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: And as soon as you decide how to observe a 692 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: particular experiment, that interpretation becomes true and the other interpretation collapses. So, 693 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: in other words, if you're looking at light as a wave, 694 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: you see it as a wave. If you look at 695 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: light as a particle, you see it as a particle, 696 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,720 Speaker 1: and the other half of that interpretation goes away, which 697 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: is insane. They were talking about it about how how 698 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: you observe the experiment. We disturb untouched nature, and we 699 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: become limited in learning about nature as it really is. 700 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: In other words, we have a very narrow view into 701 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: what reality is, and once we focus that view on something, 702 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: we cannot know everything else that's outside of that view. 703 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 1: So imagine that you have a telescope and you are 704 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 1: using that telescope to look at something that's on the 705 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: distant horizon, and you can see that you can see 706 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 1: the thing that's on the horizon, but everything else has 707 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: faded away. It's like all of that's just gone. That's 708 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: kind of what the sort of an analogy as to 709 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: what he was saying here, which is disturbing to think 710 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: about in a way, but that's how reality works, so 711 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 1: you gotta kind of deal with it. Um. So Heisenberg's 712 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: uncertainty principle in Schruner's wave functions become the basis of 713 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics, and uh the reason 714 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: why we even did this podcast besides the fact that 715 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: I think someone actually asked us to and Lauren's going 716 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,399 Speaker 1: to look that up, but the the reason why we're 717 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: doing this is because heisenberg'suncertainty principle plays into the way 718 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: that we use electronics today. Because now we're working with 719 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: electronics that have components that are on this tiny, tiny 720 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: skin at least the nanoscale, which is one one factor 721 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: up from atomic but not far away. The flow of 722 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: electrons is critical for modern absolutely and while we're making 723 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 1: these tiny transistors or transistor elements that are part of 724 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: these integrated circuits. You know, the whole purpose of transistors 725 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: is to guide the flow of electrons, to allow them 726 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: to pass or to not allow them to pass through 727 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: a circuit. Well, if you make the gates really thin. 728 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: And Heisenberg's in certainty principle tells us that there is 729 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 1: a kind of a zone in which you might find 730 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: an electron, and because of the uncertainty about the electron's 731 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 1: momentum or energy, sometimes that electron can jump up an 732 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: energy level. Because of our uncertainty, we we you know, 733 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 1: it just will pop up an energy level and then 734 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: pop back down, which means that can be found in 735 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,840 Speaker 1: a slightly larger zone than you would not necessarily expect 736 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 1: based upon its actual energy level, which can be problematic 737 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,439 Speaker 1: when when you've got these incredibly thin gates that are 738 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 1: supposed to be keeping an electrons on one side, right, 739 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 1: that that zone might extend beyond the far side of 740 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: that gate. And if the zone extends beyond the far 741 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: side of the gate, that means that it's possible for 742 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,640 Speaker 1: an electron to appear on the other side of the 743 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: gate without having actually passed through that circuit, which means 744 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:21,240 Speaker 1: called electron tunneling. And since it's possible, it happens, which 745 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: which means that, yeah, unless we figure out ways of 746 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: getting around these you know, these these fundamental quantum phenomena 747 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: that we you know, there's a point where you cannot 748 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: make the components any smaller because the electrons just won't 749 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: play ball there just every way that the fundamental quantum 750 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: traffic laws, as you put it in our exactly Yeah, yeah, 751 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: it means that that you're you're gonna get errors in 752 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: your various chips because they will not be allowing the 753 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,959 Speaker 1: or or preventing the electrons from flowing the way they're 754 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: supposed to, because the electrons are just going to be 755 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: able to tunnel right through when when those uh, those 756 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:03,320 Speaker 1: energy levels bomb up uncertainly. It's bizarre, it's so weird 757 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: to think about. Um. But engineers have found ways of 758 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 1: working around that, using different materials that uh that that 759 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: minimize this, so that they can continue to make things 760 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 1: smaller and smaller. But we will reach a point when 761 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 1: that is just not going to be the way that 762 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 1: chips will be designed anymore. Either will will plateau and 763 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,239 Speaker 1: we won't be able to make chips with smaller components, 764 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,840 Speaker 1: or we'll find a different means of using sub atomic 765 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 1: particles to process information and we'll move away from electron 766 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: based chips, which is hard to consider. It's really weird 767 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 1: to think about. Yeah, that's not that that that is 768 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: beyond my entire brain right now. Yeah. No, I'm actually 769 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 1: starting to feel a nosebleed coming on because I'm a 770 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm an English literature major. Al Right, well, let's let's 771 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 1: let's bring this back to something, to something a little 772 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 1: bit more peaceful and serene. I have I have I 773 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,279 Speaker 1: have a quote from Heisenberg via via pbs UM. He 774 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,920 Speaker 1: once said natural science does not simply describe and explain nature. 775 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,400 Speaker 1: It's part of the interplay between nature and ourselves. It 776 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: describes nature as exposed to our method of questioning. That's 777 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 1: pretty cool, which I thought was nice. I thought that 778 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: that was a much less nosebleedy way of saying that, um, 779 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 1: that we messed stuff up scientifically. And also it also 780 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: is less uh nasty than his note to uh or 781 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 1: note about Schrodinger. Right. So um oh, I found the 782 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 1: name of the person who requested this via Facebook. This 783 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: was from listener Peter. So Peter asked us about this, 784 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: and I hope that we were able to answer your 785 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,640 Speaker 1: questions to uh your satisfaction. It was certainly to the 786 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 1: best of our ability, keeping in mind that neither of 787 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,320 Speaker 1: us are theoretical physicists, not by a long shot, or 788 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: mathematicians for that matter. UH. Fascinating subject, and there are 789 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: a lot of books out there that are really really 790 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 1: good about explaining Heisenberg's role and also the contributions of 791 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 1: his contemporaries, everyone from Einstein to Somerville, to Schrodinger to 792 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 1: to all all the eight physicists of the nineteen twenties 793 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: and thirties who have really made modern technology possible through 794 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 1: their discoveries, right, you know it? Right? I mean really, 795 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: the way that we control the flow of electricity and 796 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,240 Speaker 1: therefore have stuff that turns on and off. Um, yeah, 797 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,760 Speaker 1: what not would not be possible. It's interesting because because 798 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 1: you know, you had the practical discoveries, you had the 799 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: engineers who made the practical discoveries, and the scientists who 800 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 1: were able to refine those discoveries through their own or 801 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,360 Speaker 1: refine those designs rather through their own discoveries. It's this 802 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: this intricate yeah, you know. Without without both sides, obviously 803 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 1: our lights wouldn't come on. So thank you to both um. Anyway, 804 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 1: that kind of wraps up this discussion. If you guys 805 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: have any comments, So if you have questions, if you 806 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 1: want to suggest other topics for us to tackle in 807 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 1: the future, I recommend you get in touch with us 808 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,360 Speaker 1: because otherwise we won't know, We'll be completely uncertain about 809 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 1: what others you want. So make a certain right to 810 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 1: us our addresses tech stuff at discovery dot com or 811 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: drop us a line on based or Twitter. You can 812 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,360 Speaker 1: find our handle it is tech stuff hsw which you 813 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 1: can also find our tumbler. Oh right, I keep forgetting 814 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,560 Speaker 1: about that. You've been tumbling for a while now, and 815 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,439 Speaker 1: I just failed to notice you falling over and over. 816 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: A right tumbler, you can find us there to check 817 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,720 Speaker 1: us out. Lauren's been doing a great job with that. Guys, 818 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,799 Speaker 1: you need to you need to take a look and 819 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,480 Speaker 1: uh hey, we'll talk to you again really soon, I'm 820 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,840 Speaker 1: certain of it. For more on this and thousands of 821 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:37,760 Speaker 1: other topics, is it how stuff works dot com