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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Stephen Ferdick.

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Speaker 2: I'm the pastor of Elevation Church and this is our podcast.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to thank you for joining us today.

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Speaker 1: Hope this inspires you. Hope it builds your faith. Hope

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Speaker 1: it gives your perspective to see God is moving in

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Speaker 1: your life.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy the message, because life will label you by what

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Speaker 2: you did, and the Bible gives us a little Only

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Speaker 2: John tells us this because John had the sensitivity to him.

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Speaker 1: When you read his gospel, he tells you things other

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Speaker 1: people don't mention.

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Speaker 2: He said, Now Thomas, also known as Didamus. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if we've just got to label Thomas a doubter, can

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Speaker 2: we at least call him doubting didamis because the alliteration

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Speaker 2: works much better. Doubting Didimus. The Bible says that doubting

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Speaker 2: did he one of the twelve.

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Speaker 1: Was not with.

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Speaker 2: Somebody say, he wasn't there. So now Jesus and Thomas

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Speaker 2: got something in common. When they went to look for

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Speaker 2: jesus dead body, he wasn't there. When Jesus showed up

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Speaker 2: alive and resurrected, Thomas wasn't there, and Thomas wasn't there.

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Speaker 2: The Bible doesn't say why he wasn't there. I've always

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Speaker 2: heard it preach like he wasn't there because he didn't

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Speaker 2: have enough faith to be there. But the boys inside

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Speaker 2: had the doors locked. They weren't any better. So if

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Speaker 2: we're gonna give out nicknames, let's talk about Simon Peter

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Speaker 2: inside with the doors locked.

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Speaker 1: How about scaredy cat Simon Peter, scaredy Simon.

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Speaker 2: How about locked door Levi, lock them up Levi? And

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Speaker 2: doubting Dicky. And we all have dolts. That's what I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to say. We all have scars, we all have dysfunction.

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Speaker 2: You might have long sleeves, but if I could roll

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Speaker 2: up your sleeves, you've been through something.

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Speaker 1: You'll struggle with something. Your wife may not know it,

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Speaker 1: But God goes, I gotta heard.

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Speaker 2: I gotta hurry. I'm getting really indulgent. I got to

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Speaker 2: get you out of here because the next crowd's coming in.

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Speaker 2: Somebody somebody say, nails, nails, nails nails. So the other

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Speaker 2: disciple told him we have seen the Lord. But Thomas

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Speaker 2: said this way had come down in Thomas. I call

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Speaker 2: him honest Thomas. I don't call him doubting Thomas. I

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Speaker 2: call him honest Thomas, truthful Thomas. Because Thomas is like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not buying it. I'm not buying en off what

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Speaker 2: you said. I need to see for myself. I got

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Speaker 2: to see Jesus for myself. This has to be real

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Speaker 2: to me. So hey, unless I see the nail marks

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Speaker 2: in his hands, unless I see where he suffered, I

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Speaker 2: will not believe in his glory.

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Speaker 1: And unless I put my finger where the names.

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Speaker 2: And put my hand into a sigh, I won't believe.

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Speaker 2: Watch Jesus now, I want to point out one thing

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Speaker 2: in verse twenty six.

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Speaker 1: Look at it.

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Speaker 2: Seven days later, a week later, seven seven miles, seven days.

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Speaker 2: God will leave you in a space where you don't

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Speaker 2: understand to create faith in your heart. So Thomas says,

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Speaker 2: I need to see the scars. Jesus could have showed

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Speaker 2: up on the spot. He waited seven days. Jesus could

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Speaker 2: have walked up to Cleo and said, see my scars.

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Speaker 1: It's me.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes he wants to let you walk and wonder

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Speaker 2: and walk and wonder, not because he doesn't love you,

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Speaker 2: but because if your faith needs an explanation, it cannot

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Speaker 2: sustain the trials of life.

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Speaker 3: So he waits seven days to help me appreciate that

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Speaker 3: he waits seven days. Have you ever had to wait

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Speaker 3: seven days? Have you ever had to wait through a

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Speaker 3: custody battle? Have you ever had to wait to see

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Speaker 3: if this is ever gonna feel better? Have you ever

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Speaker 3: had to wait through pain, wait through depression, wake through

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Speaker 3: anxiety attacks, wake through bad reports, way through a newscast?

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Speaker 2: Have you ever had to wait a waiting a waiting period?

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Speaker 2: And then when Jesus shows up a week later?

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Speaker 1: Seven?

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Speaker 2: Everybody say seven, seven days, seven miles, seven days, seven miles.

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Speaker 1: It's the number of completion.

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Speaker 2: And then Jesus shows up, maybe just at that point

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Speaker 2: where Thomas is tired of waiting, And the disciples were

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Speaker 2: in the house again, and Thomas this time was there,

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Speaker 2: and Jesus walks in. Look at the next part. Though

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Speaker 2: the doors were locked, they still locked, the doors still scared,

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Speaker 2: but they stayed, still scared.

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Speaker 1: But they stayed. I still got some addictions, but I'm

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Speaker 1: in church today.

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Speaker 2: God can work with that. I'm still on the road.

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Speaker 2: I don't get it, but I'm still. And this time

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Speaker 2: Thomas was there. He kno gonna miss it this time.

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Speaker 2: And Jesus came in, stood among them and said peace,

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Speaker 2: watch what comes next. You're Tommy, Hey diddy, Hey, honest, Thomas.

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Speaker 1: I heard you wanted to see my scars. Now this

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Speaker 1: is important.

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Speaker 2: Put your finger here, where where the nails were? Isn't

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Speaker 2: that what you needed to see? Thomas, where the nails were?

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Speaker 2: I noticed something he didn't say, where the nails are.

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Speaker 1: You're Tommy, I'm back from the grave and I need

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Speaker 1: you to see something.

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Speaker 4: Look, Thomas, no more nails. Look Thomas, they're not here.

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Speaker 4: But your finger where the sin was. But your finger

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Speaker 4: where the shame was. Put your finger where.

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Speaker 2: They tried to crucify the.

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Speaker 1: Creator of the world.

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Speaker 2: No more, somebody shout no more nails, no more nails.

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Speaker 1: In other words, what held me? Does it hold me anymore?

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Speaker 1: I came to the Claire. Today is the day freedom.

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Speaker 2: I wish you would push your neighbor to the almost

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Speaker 2: fall over and say, no more nails, No more nails.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: I've heard so many sermons about forgiveness because we've all

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Speaker 2: been wounded. Raise your hand if life hasn't wounded you yet.

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Speaker 2: I want to see where the liars are in the

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Speaker 2: church because I want to have a special prayer for

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Speaker 2: all the liars who would have the audacity to lie

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Speaker 2: in the presence of God and act like you haven't

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Speaker 2: been wounded. We've all been wounded. Rock Hill, Gaston County.

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Speaker 2: It don't matter Toronto, Canada.

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Speaker 1: You can't. You can't walk the road without being wounded.

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Speaker 1: You can't go to church without being wounded. Faked, I'm maddy,

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Speaker 1: That's why I have to gange. Faked. I'm mad.

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Speaker 2: I was in a church one time and the preacher

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Speaker 2: got them to sing about wounds.

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Speaker 1: And it was so weird, y'all, because he was like

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Speaker 1: he was. He was preaching about wounds.

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Speaker 2: His thing was try to get everybody go back and

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Speaker 2: remember all the ways they've been wounded throughout their whole life.

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Speaker 2: He had me thinking of stuff in the third grade,

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Speaker 2: just the craziest stuff like that was going to bring healing.

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Speaker 2: Look at this, Jesus didn't show Thomas his wounds. He

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Speaker 2: showed him his scars. There is a difference between being

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Speaker 2: wounded and being scarred.

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Speaker 1: That's good, that's good.

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Speaker 2: Feel So when I prayed about this first word of forgiveness,

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Speaker 2: the Lord told me to talk to you about the nails,

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Speaker 2: whatever has wounded you, whatever you hide, whatever happened. See

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Speaker 2: when Jesus shows Thomas his scars. I'm glad he kept

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Speaker 2: his scars. I'm glad he kept that part. I'm glad

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Speaker 2: he didn't stay dead. But I'm also glad that he

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Speaker 2: came out scarred because that gives me hope.

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Speaker 1: And that's how I try to preach.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to preach wounded, because if I preach wounded,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to inflict my pain on you.

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Speaker 1: And I don't want to be a wounded parent. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be a wounded spouse. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to walk around.

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Speaker 2: God spoke to me a couple months ago and he said,

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Speaker 2: if I've really healed you like you claim I have,

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Speaker 2: why are you still so touchy? Thomas said, I want

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Speaker 2: to see where the wounds were. And when I teach,

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Speaker 2: preacher Jonathan can tell you.

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Speaker 1: I tell him. Don't you get up and tell the.

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Speaker 2: Church all the ways that you woke up at five

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Speaker 2: thirty am? And you know, if I put you in

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Speaker 2: my puppet show the church some of your scars, you

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Speaker 2: can show them the stones that God has rolled away.

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Speaker 2: That's fine, that's the part of it. He is a

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Speaker 2: god of miracles. He is a god who makes dreams

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Speaker 2: come true and we've all got some stones that he's

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Speaker 2: rolled away, but we've.

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Speaker 1: All got some scars, too.

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Speaker 2: So show them your scars. Show them where you didn't

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Speaker 2: get up at five point thirty.

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Speaker 1: In fact, show them where you pretended like you didn't

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Speaker 1: hear the baby crying at five point thirty. And Anna

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Speaker 1: gotta tell them that story. Tell them how you almost quit.

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Speaker 2: Tell them how you wanted to throw up the first

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Speaker 2: week you went out to preach, after the news media

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Speaker 2: ran a story about you for four days straight saying

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Speaker 2: things about you.

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Speaker 1: Tell them that.

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Speaker 2: Tell them how you were in the bathroom and you

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Speaker 2: came out smiling.

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Speaker 1: Show them where the wounds were, and.

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Speaker 2: It'll give them hope that what wounded me doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to hold me forever.

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Speaker 1: Come on, it's time to be free.

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Speaker 2: It's been long enough, it's been seven days. Forgiveness doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean it didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: The scar shows it happened. Jesus didn't show up and

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Speaker 1: say what Cross, What you're talking about? Cross? I don't

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Speaker 1: remember Cross. I heard a preacher say one time, this

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Speaker 1: guy's an idiot. He's have his credentials revoke. He said,

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Speaker 1: if you've really uh, let's get a preacher voice going.

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Speaker 2: If you've really forgiven someone in your heart, you will

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Speaker 2: not even remember the offense. There is a word that

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Speaker 2: comes to my mind to describe what he said, but

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna just say it's it's inaccurate. It's not denial

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Speaker 2: when I say forgiveness, because I gotta be careful because

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Speaker 2: I'm a pastor, right, I'm not just passing through a

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Speaker 2: preaching one week leaving. I'm not trying to just get something.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to go on a journey with you and

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Speaker 2: to let you know that when you when you let

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Speaker 2: go of whatever wounded you so that you can be

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Speaker 2: free and going to the.

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Speaker 1: Future God has for you.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that you pretend it never happened. This

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Speaker 2: is not denial. The nails were there. My dad walked

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Speaker 2: out on me.

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Speaker 1: My dad. I'm saying that you could say.

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Speaker 2: My mom had an impossible standard that I could never

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Speaker 2: live up to, and I believe that part of my

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Speaker 2: eating disorder today has to do with that. I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying it didn't happen, but I can't let it hold me.

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Speaker 2: I cannot blame her forever, not if I'm a Christian,

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Speaker 2: not if I am a Christian, not if I worshiped

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Speaker 2: the one who was wounded for my transgression. See, I

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Speaker 2: need to let you know something, because the hardest person

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Speaker 2: you'll ever forgive is not your ex, is not.

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Speaker 1: Your mom, is not your dad. It's not your neighbor who.

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Speaker 2: Came over your fence and your property line. The hardest

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Speaker 2: person you will ever have to forgive is yourself.

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Speaker 1: See the truth be told. It is my self inflicted

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Speaker 1: nails that I have the hardest time letting go off.

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Speaker 2: But I want the devil to know when he comes

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Speaker 2: to hammer at me with accusation. I don't know where

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Speaker 2: you go when that starts to happen, how worthless you are.

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Speaker 1: Have you noticed the devil loves.

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Speaker 2: To hammer you, and he's got a big hammer. But

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Speaker 2: let me tell you a little secret. He ain't got

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Speaker 2: no more nails. Somebody shouting no more nails. That sime

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Speaker 2: the devil hammers.

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Speaker 5: You with accusations, shout back in his face, gott no nails.

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Speaker 2: All my nails are in that cross. All my shame

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Speaker 2: is on that cross. Somebody shouting no more nails. There

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Speaker 2: is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in

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Speaker 2: Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus, the law of the

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Speaker 2: spirit of life has set me free from the law

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Speaker 2: of sin. And ten the devil might have a hammer,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't have any nails breaks out.

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Speaker 3: In touch.

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Speaker 1: The place where the nails were.

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Speaker 2: Where they were, It doesn't mean it didn't happen. It happened.

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Speaker 2: I fell, sure.

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Speaker 1: It happened. I ruined the relationship. It happened. They abused

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Speaker 1: me in ways that I don't even want to tell

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Speaker 1: my own spouse. It happened.

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Speaker 2: I deal with the traumatic rememorcy. It's not that it

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Speaker 2: didn't happen, and it's not that it doesn't hurt. That's

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Speaker 2: not what forgiveness is. Forgiveness doesn't mean it it doesn't hurt.

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Speaker 1: I mean the nails might be gone, but the memory

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Speaker 1: is still there.

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Speaker 2: And it's really easy to forgive sometimes when the person

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Speaker 2: that you're forgiving is gone, but when you still have

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Speaker 2: to work I'll share custody, when you still have to

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Speaker 2: live with the memory, when you still can't be touched

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Speaker 2: without recalling the shame of when you were touched the

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Speaker 2: wrong way, and now you're trying to learn how to

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Speaker 2: love the right way, when you're trying to learn how

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Speaker 2: to trust. It doesn't mean it won't hurt away with

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Speaker 2: the preaching that will teach you that the pain will

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Speaker 2: go away when you forgive the offense. It's not that

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Speaker 2: the pain goes away. I'm helping somebody, I'm setting somebody free.

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Speaker 2: You keep waiting for the feeling of forgiveness to come.

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Speaker 2: It's not a feeling. It takes faith. I said, it

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Speaker 2: takes faith. I said it takes faith. I said it

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Speaker 2: takes faith. It takes faith to believe that the same

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Speaker 2: place where the nails were it's the same place where.

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Speaker 1: The healing is. They saw it in a scarce. Jesus

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Speaker 1: needed those nails.

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Speaker 2: If they hadn't nailed him to that cross, if.

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Speaker 1: They hadn't, if they hadn't punctured, if.

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Speaker 2: The blood didn't flow from that place, the power wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be released.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying not that God's.

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Speaker 2: Gonna take the scar away, but that he is going

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Speaker 2: to release.

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Speaker 1: The greatest strength in your.

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Speaker 5: Life from the place where the nails were.

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Speaker 1: Come on, shout no more n ass. It's a declaration.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't mean it didn't happen. It happened. They bullied you,

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Speaker 2: It happened. They lied about you. By the way, not

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Speaker 2: only have you suffered some wounds, but you've inflicted a

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Speaker 2: few two. And it's kind of crazy how we can

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Speaker 2: be comfortable putting all of our nails in Jesus cross,

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Speaker 2: but then walk around with a pocket full of our

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Speaker 2: own to put in other people. If all my nails

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Speaker 2: are in his cross, that means all of yours are too.

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Speaker 2: I cannot demand to receive a grace from God for

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Speaker 2: me that I will not give to you. And so

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Speaker 2: what it means, What it means isn't that it didn't happen.

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Speaker 2: What it means isn't that it didn't hurt. What it

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Speaker 2: means is not that I won't handle it. I might

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Speaker 2: not be able to be friends with you in the

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Speaker 2: same way anymore because I might not be able to

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Speaker 2: trust you. Forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation. Don't

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Speaker 2: go email in your ex on message them on Facebook

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Speaker 2: when you're married now for twelve years? Is talking about

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Speaker 2: will you forgive me? In the still of the night

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Speaker 2: into the road flashbacks to prom It's not that things

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Speaker 2: won't be different, it's not that I won't handle it.

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Speaker 2: But Thomas, I want you to put your finger in

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Speaker 2: the place.

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Speaker 1: Where I was held to the cross, and.

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Speaker 2: I want you to know that what held me doesn't

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Speaker 2: hold me anymore. That's what forgiveness is.

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Speaker 1: Friends.

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Speaker 2: It's not that it didn't happen. It happened and it

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Speaker 2: was horrible. It's not that it doesn't hurt. It's just

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Speaker 2: that I'm not going to live in the offense any longer.

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Speaker 2: I've been wounded long enough.

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Speaker 6: Why would I choose to stay wounded when healing is

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Speaker 6: in his hands? Why would I keep nailing you to

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Speaker 6: a cross when it's only hurting me. Somebody say, no

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Speaker 6: more nails, No more nails.

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Speaker 1: The spirit of God is in this place. No more nails.

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Speaker 2: It's all in the cross, all my past, all my shame,

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Speaker 2: it's all in the cross.

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Speaker 1: No more nails. To be free, I.

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Speaker 2: Gotta let go, and I declare over your life today.

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Speaker 2: Not that it won't ever hurt again, not that some

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Speaker 2: things won't need to change, not that it won't be

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Speaker 2: a process. Remember this is only my one of our journey.

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Speaker 2: But if you will put your nails in that cross

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Speaker 2: and trust what Jesus proved that all things somebody shot

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Speaker 2: all things, even the nails, even Judas, even that. I

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Speaker 2: talked to a woman who went through the most traumatic

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Speaker 2: childhood experience you could describe. I wouldn't put it in

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Speaker 2: this sermon because there are kids who came in, but

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Speaker 2: what she went through was so horrible. Yet she was

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Speaker 2: able to look at me in the eye and say,

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Speaker 2: although I wouldn't choose it, and although I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: it was okay or that it was right or that

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Speaker 2: God did it, I'm not trying to justify it. When

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Speaker 2: I see how God has used even the things that

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't choose. It's not that I wanted it to happen.

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Speaker 2: It's not that it doesn't hurt. I'm not gonna fake.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to live in denial. I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to stay in dysfunction. I'm not gonna but I I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't trade my scars for anything, because my scars are.

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Speaker 1: The proof of His power.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got scars, y'all all went through it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: hurt like hell. Yes they drove the nails. Yes it

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Speaker 2: was offensive, and yes it was wrong.

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Speaker 1: But no, I won't stay here. No, I won't sacrifice

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Speaker 1: my future on the altar of my past. No, gor nass,

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Speaker 1: I'm coming out.

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Speaker 4: I'm coming out.

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Speaker 1: Come on, shot like your Fred, shot like your friend.

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Speaker 1: How long do you want to stay wounded? How long

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Speaker 1: do you want to stay stuck? It happened. I'm not

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Speaker 1: living in denial.

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Speaker 2: It hurts. I'm not gonna live defensive, pretending like it

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Speaker 2: doesn't hurt and I have to handle it. I'm not

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Speaker 2: gonna live in dysfunction, enabling dysfunctional situations and calling it forgiveness.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna stay here dead.

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Speaker 2: When he is risen, no more else, no more els.

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Speaker 2: He is going on the cross today, all of it, right,

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Speaker 2: all of it. The sin you did, the sin.

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Speaker 1: That was done to you. It's all going on the

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Speaker 1: same cross today.

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Speaker 2: And all things, even the scars, not just the stone,

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Speaker 2: but the scars, all things.

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Speaker 1: We'll work together for the good. Look, Thomas, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: hold me anymore. Look Thomas, your doubt doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: hold you anymore. Look, Thomas, touch you.

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Speaker 2: See see my scars? You see you see my scars.

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Speaker 2: I know you've got some wounds. They've been open long enough.

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Speaker 1: It's time.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmm