WEBVTT - How Surfers Ride the Wave to the Next Economic Boom

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<v Speaker 1>at Bloomberg dot com backslash lens. That's incredible. That's the

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<v Speaker 1>sound of Sydney's Bondaie Beach on an average weekend. Bronze

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<v Speaker 1>surfers men and women of all ages, races creeds, pounding

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<v Speaker 1>to the waves or just walking into them, or just sunbathing.

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<v Speaker 1>Heir is thick with the scent of coconut oil, hot dogs,

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<v Speaker 1>paddle pops and being Why are we visiting one of

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<v Speaker 1>Australia's most iconic tourist attractions and one that suffers from

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<v Speaker 1>the most mispronunciation. Well, if you listen to Benchmark, you

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<v Speaker 1>know it's about economics. A plathora of surfers, turns out

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<v Speaker 1>is actually a pretty good leading indicator of economic growth.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Benchmark. I'm Daniel Moss, executive editor for Global

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<v Speaker 1>Economics in New York. We're joined today by Bloomberg's Mike Heath,

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<v Speaker 1>who returned home to Sydney to cover the economy in

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and seven after spending the better part of

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<v Speaker 1>a decade in Moscow, of all places. Mike, before we

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<v Speaker 1>dive into the economics of surfing, answer me this question,

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<v Speaker 1>just how much did you miss Australia and the great

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<v Speaker 1>leveler the beach scene? Sure? Dan, I mean it was

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<v Speaker 1>initially irrelevant to me because Moscow, you can imagine, was

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<v Speaker 1>so exciting and different, and I just jumped into it.

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<v Speaker 1>But after five years I had to come back to

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<v Speaker 1>Australia as my mom was having an operation, and I

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<v Speaker 1>did spend some time at the beach then, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think it put out a kernel of a thought in

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<v Speaker 1>my mind. And when I returned to Moscow, the thought

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<v Speaker 1>of the sand and the sun and the surf it

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<v Speaker 1>developed into almost a longing. And then a year after

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<v Speaker 1>my daughter was born, I decided that for all the

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<v Speaker 1>history and culture, rush it off. But I just couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>deny her a childhood in Australia, and exactly do you

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<v Speaker 1>say the Australian beach the great leveler and none of

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<v Speaker 1>us have ever looked back. So you how old is

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<v Speaker 1>she now? And you're taking out a surf lessons every weekend?

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<v Speaker 1>I know she's past lessons now. We had a couple

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<v Speaker 1>in the Southern Hemisphere summer up in Byron Bay. But

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<v Speaker 1>she's a very good gymnast, my daughter, and so she

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<v Speaker 1>was standing almost immediately. She's got terrific balance. So now

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just trying to teach her to better positioners off

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<v Speaker 1>to catch a wave. So she's almost got the cart

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<v Speaker 1>before the horse kind of thing. But she goes out

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<v Speaker 1>by herself. We go down every weekend and she's this

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<v Speaker 1>tiny little speck among big rollers. Two weeks ago she

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<v Speaker 1>was caught in a rip and the last guard asked

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<v Speaker 1>me if I wanted him to rescue her, and I

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<v Speaker 1>held him back and she got out of herself, exhausted

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<v Speaker 1>because I really wanted her to learn some respect for

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<v Speaker 1>the power of the ocean. So I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>for a child especially, it's it's something central to you,

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<v Speaker 1>to your existence in Australia. So let's get into this

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<v Speaker 1>economic study. You know, the Study of Breaks is the

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<v Speaker 1>latest piece of research that functions as an unconventional but

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<v Speaker 1>surprisingly accurate guide to growth. Others include online advertising, Google

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<v Speaker 1>searches and even Aliy Barber sales. And now surfing has arrived.

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<v Speaker 1>Well i'll let our our guest in London, Dr Sam

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<v Speaker 1>Wills do the details, but just a brief overview of

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<v Speaker 1>his research. It's incredibly logical when you think about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Surfers are basically the explorers hunting the next grave way

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<v Speaker 1>to conquer, and once they find their mecca, their ocean mecca,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a pretty good chance that the area is going

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<v Speaker 1>to appeal to a lot of other people too, and

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<v Speaker 1>so the infrastructure tends to emerge. Byron Bay in Australia,

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<v Speaker 1>as Sam mentioned in his research, is a terrific example

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<v Speaker 1>of that. Um it's become enormous these days. So Sam,

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<v Speaker 1>come on down, Oh guys think so, thanks very much

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<v Speaker 1>for having me. Sam. What is your model if you

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<v Speaker 1>could explain it, and how did you come by it?

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<v Speaker 1>So the idea of that the paper is that we're

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<v Speaker 1>interested in trying to figure out whether or not the

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<v Speaker 1>natural environment really affects growth. So we know that some

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<v Speaker 1>things are important. We know that having a river or

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<v Speaker 1>having a port, having a mountain range, all these things

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<v Speaker 1>affect the economy, But what about just living in a

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<v Speaker 1>nice place. Obviously, this is you know, we think that

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<v Speaker 1>it might be important, but it's it's really hard to

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<v Speaker 1>get at. And the reason why it's typicult is, first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, it's tough to measure how nice a place

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<v Speaker 1>is to live. And the second is in is uh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's really hard to sort of isolate that niceness rather

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<v Speaker 1>than other channels. And so to get this question, a

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<v Speaker 1>colleague of mine and I decided to use surf breaks.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason for that is that these surf breaks are

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<v Speaker 1>basically randomly distributed all over the world, and we can

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<v Speaker 1>use that randomness to really isolate the effect of what

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<v Speaker 1>a what a good surf break is on the economy.

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<v Speaker 1>And so that's what we've done in the study. So

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<v Speaker 1>the idea for the study actually came just after I

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<v Speaker 1>finished my PhD. I was holed up in a cold,

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<v Speaker 1>miserable library and Oxford for for for every a year,

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<v Speaker 1>riding up the thesis. And when I finished, I thought

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<v Speaker 1>I'd jump on a plane and go somewhere sunny. And

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<v Speaker 1>really I was looking for somewhere out of the way

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<v Speaker 1>where I could get a good time away and get

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<v Speaker 1>a few ways, and I ended up down in Morocco,

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<v Speaker 1>a little place called taggers It. But I arrived there

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<v Speaker 1>and the place was absolutely overrun. There were surf shops everywhere,

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<v Speaker 1>even even the mosque was selling you know, surf wax

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<v Speaker 1>and uh you know, old wetsuits and that sort of

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<v Speaker 1>thing from from out the front. So it got me thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, maybe there's something to this, this surfing story.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's when we sort of turn to the data

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<v Speaker 1>to see if in fact it holds true around the world.

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<v Speaker 1>You've just mentioned Morocco. Now your research also encompasses Indonesia

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<v Speaker 1>and South Africa, But these countries aren't going to win

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<v Speaker 1>prizes for economic management. How do you reconcile your model

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<v Speaker 1>with the decidedly spotty record of these countries. Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>exactly right, and we're not we know that. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>surf breaks probably is not the veal and end all

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<v Speaker 1>for growth. You know, at the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 1>evil comes down to institutions, as we know. But within

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<v Speaker 1>a country holding everything else equal, places with good surf

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<v Speaker 1>breaks will tend to grow faster than places without and

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<v Speaker 1>we've tested this in a few ways. One, we just

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<v Speaker 1>looked at places with good ways versus places with bad waves,

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<v Speaker 1>and we measured how much economic activity there was using satellites. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>these satellites measure how much light there is at nighttime,

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<v Speaker 1>and it turns out that's quite a good proxy for growth,

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<v Speaker 1>and so by doing that, we're able to show that

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<v Speaker 1>these places with good ways do tend to grow faster. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>Some other fun stuff that we did was looking what

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<v Speaker 1>happened during ALMNO years, when when when the waves in

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<v Speaker 1>certain parts of the world actually get really good, and

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<v Speaker 1>we found that the growth really exploded during those years

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<v Speaker 1>in places with good waves. And then another piece of

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<v Speaker 1>a fine little experiment we ran was what happens when

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<v Speaker 1>a wave is discovered. So back in two thousand and eight,

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<v Speaker 1>Surfer magazine ran a competition called the Google Earth Challenge,

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<v Speaker 1>and basically the idea was, you know, a bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>kids sitting behind their computers tracing through Google Earth trying

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<v Speaker 1>to find a wave that had never been served before.

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<v Speaker 1>And the winner was this fantastic wave in Namibia off

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<v Speaker 1>the coast of the desert. And this way just went

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<v Speaker 1>for you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of meters

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<v Speaker 1>basically perfection. And so we found that after this wave

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<v Speaker 1>was discovered and after the global surfing community got wind

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<v Speaker 1>of it, the light around this wave really exploded, which

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<v Speaker 1>kind of adds more weight to our our hypothesis. And

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<v Speaker 1>the satellites proved that, Yeah, exactly. And what's the name

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<v Speaker 1>of this beach in Namibia? So it's a break called

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<v Speaker 1>Scales in bayh And yes it's worth a Google because

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<v Speaker 1>this thing is just mechanically perfect waves, just breaking one

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<v Speaker 1>after another. It's absolutely beautiful for one and a half

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<v Speaker 1>kilometers long as well, I think from from memory, Sam, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>exactly right over you know one and a half kilometers long.

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<v Speaker 1>People are sort of when they surf there by all

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<v Speaker 1>reports there they're pulling off waves because they get too tired,

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<v Speaker 1>which you know, um, Sam, tell us, tell us personally

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<v Speaker 1>what you like about surfing and and what it has

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<v Speaker 1>to do with the economy, because in the popular mind,

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<v Speaker 1>economics is all about charts and statistics and acronyms like GDP. Yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess you know. Surfing. Surfing is good for this

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<v Speaker 1>sort of study because it really holds like a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of sway over people's imagination. Uh. You know once once

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<v Speaker 1>you started surfing it, he puts you in very close

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<v Speaker 1>contact with nature. It's very meditative in a sense, and

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<v Speaker 1>it becomes addictive as well. And so for all these reasons,

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<v Speaker 1>as we know, surfers are willing to go out of

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<v Speaker 1>their way to find find ways. Not only that, obviously

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<v Speaker 1>surfing waves are a bit of a limited resource, and

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<v Speaker 1>so that that adds to the UM. I guess the

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<v Speaker 1>exploration that goes on with surfers trying to find waves.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's the sort of thing that we're picking up

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<v Speaker 1>in the study UM. Sort of things like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>people traveling fire and wide to find new breaks and

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<v Speaker 1>then they find them. People willing to sort of settle

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<v Speaker 1>down and and you know, work for less money than

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<v Speaker 1>make it earn otherwise because they get the benefit of

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<v Speaker 1>surfing these great waves. Sam, I understand a sovereign wealth

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<v Speaker 1>fund has brought your argument talk to us about that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is this was remarkable actually so uh most of

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<v Speaker 1>my research is actually on sovereign wealth funds and natural resources. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was at a conference on something completely unrelated

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<v Speaker 1>to this surfing stuff and found myself having a conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with the head of the Moroccan Sovereign Wealth Fund, and

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<v Speaker 1>when I mentioned this surfing paper, he just his eyes

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<v Speaker 1>lit up immediately because they have just pumped quite a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of money into tagger Suit, the very place where

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<v Speaker 1>I had the idea for the paper. And the reason,

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<v Speaker 1>of course is that, um, you know, for the past

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<v Speaker 1>you know, twenty or thirty years, surfers have been rocking

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<v Speaker 1>up to this amazing break in Morocco called Anchor Point

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<v Speaker 1>to surf it. And you know, over time in a

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<v Speaker 1>tourist infrastructure is popped up to to service these surfers,

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<v Speaker 1>and now it's it's a bit of a spot on

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<v Speaker 1>the on the tourist trail for people who aren't interested

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<v Speaker 1>in surfing at all. And so the Morocan Sophomore Fund

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<v Speaker 1>has decided to build a big resort, you know, with

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<v Speaker 1>conference facilities and and and golf, a golf course and

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<v Speaker 1>all this other sort of stuff to make make use

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<v Speaker 1>to that which you know, I guess for the purists,

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<v Speaker 1>they'd say that it's the place the town is losing

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<v Speaker 1>something in the process. So if you worked for a

0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:26.880
<v Speaker 1>hedge fund, you've been now on the hunt for the

0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:31.160
<v Speaker 1>next tagger Zoot. Tagger Zoot is done. Now you need

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<v Speaker 1>to find the next big, big thing, right or the

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<v Speaker 1>next new thing. That's the idea. So so this sort

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<v Speaker 1>of this turns out traditional model on its head. There. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not about our agriculture, mechanized farming, industrial revolution, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just about ways. Yeah, that's what all comes down to.

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<v Speaker 1>And let's talk a bit about technology. You mentioned satellites,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, we're becoming increasingly aware of technologies were

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<v Speaker 1>all in surfing, like battery powered wetsuits for example. How

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<v Speaker 1>transformative is that. It's a good point. So obviously, you know, surfing,

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<v Speaker 1>like all industries, is being affected by technological process progress.

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<v Speaker 1>Um in, the manufacturer of surfboards is has gone from

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<v Speaker 1>a cottage industry where everything was shaped by hand too,

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<v Speaker 1>being sort of mass produced from uh, you know, centralized

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<v Speaker 1>cad drawings and that sort of thing. So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>surfing has certainly been affected by technological progress. On the

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<v Speaker 1>topic of battery heated wetsuits, this was actually a technology

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<v Speaker 1>that we studied, so we were interested in what happened

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<v Speaker 1>when rip Curl released a battery heated wet suit back

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and seven. And basically this just meant

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<v Speaker 1>that surfers could surf in really cold water for longer

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<v Speaker 1>and made it much more comfortable. So from our data set,

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<v Speaker 1>we looked at all the waves that were above fifty

0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.840
<v Speaker 1>five degrees latitudes, so these really cold water weaves, and

0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:08.280
<v Speaker 1>we found it after the wet suit was inbedded in

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.439
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and seven, growth in these cold water places

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.240
<v Speaker 1>really really exploded relative to everywhere else. So it's interesting

0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 1>you see that this little technological innovation has had actually

0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 1>quite a big impact on the local economies of these places.

0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:27.240
<v Speaker 1>What's the coldest place you've served? The coldest place? So

0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.439
<v Speaker 1>it's actually in Cape Town in December, and I'll tell

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.120
<v Speaker 1>you what, The water is pretty cold, pretty cold down there.

0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.839
<v Speaker 1>That's the middle of summer. It was the middle of summer,

0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.520
<v Speaker 1>but my word, it was, yeah, it was pretty chilly.

0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 1>What you were saying about the patterns of the waves

0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.679
<v Speaker 1>struck me as curious. We've read about hedge fund stars

0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:55.079
<v Speaker 1>who have an education in classical music and jazz, I mean,

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.440
<v Speaker 1>have studied it formally, and what they say it gives

0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.000
<v Speaker 1>them is a sense of rhythm and what's the next

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.960
<v Speaker 1>key to come next? Is there something like this going

0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 1>on with the waves. Yeah, I guess there could be

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.160
<v Speaker 1>something similar there. You know, as I mentioned, it's a

0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 1>it's a very meditative sport and I think you know,

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.120
<v Speaker 1>in a in a field like academic research, it's always

0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 1>helpful to have, you know, somewhere you can um, something

0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.720
<v Speaker 1>you can resort to to clear your head and just

0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.880
<v Speaker 1>mull over problems and sitting at the back the surf

0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 1>break is really helpful for that. MS interesting sama was

0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.560
<v Speaker 1>there was a great program on TV here. You might

0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:37.240
<v Speaker 1>have seen it, or you might have been away when

0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.320
<v Speaker 1>it came out, but it was Tom Carroll in a

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.360
<v Speaker 1>big wave surfing made of his basically looking for new

0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 1>waves around Australia to surf, and they ended up going

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 1>out to this place that was on a map, a reef,

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 1>I think it was on a map, and it was

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.800
<v Speaker 1>four hours by boat. I think it was southwest of Perth.

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 1>So they're out there in the middle of the ocean,

0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.280
<v Speaker 1>just wondering what the heck they're doing and don't know

0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.560
<v Speaker 1>where they're emergence these these ways which they get on

0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:05.640
<v Speaker 1>via boats or whatever. I mean, it seems at some

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:10.520
<v Speaker 1>point every wave will be conquered or is that impossible? Well, no,

0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:12.840
<v Speaker 1>you're exactly right, Like, I guess it's just a finite

0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 1>a number of waves out there. Uh, And so eventually,

0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, especially with countries like Indonesia and Brazil developing,

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, these are countries with a big population and

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 1>a lot of coastline. You think the population of surfers

0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.400
<v Speaker 1>in the world is really going to explode in the future.

0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.280
<v Speaker 1>And I guess that's interesting because people are now turning

0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 1>to two alternatives. So we know that Kelly Slater, there,

0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.120
<v Speaker 1>um many time world champion of surfing is has brought

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 1>out a new inland wavepool which might be a substitute

0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 1>for you know, the real deal. And also we know

0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 1>that coastal engineers are working hard on figuring out ways

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 1>to to create waves in the ocean where where waves

0:15:55.680 --> 0:16:00.280
<v Speaker 1>weren't there before, so you know, creating artificial uh rock

0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 1>reefs and that sort of thing off off the coast

0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.640
<v Speaker 1>so that when the swells hit them, they make ways

0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.200
<v Speaker 1>that a surfable, right, So just sunder my own point though,

0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 1>but presumably there'd be erosion and stuff, so a break

0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.840
<v Speaker 1>could disappear or reappear or appear you know, out of

0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:20.120
<v Speaker 1>nothing as well. Presumably. Yeah, definitely, Actually we found a

0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.760
<v Speaker 1>couple of castions of that. So one famous case was

0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 1>a break in Spain called Wundaka, and this was a

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.960
<v Speaker 1>really famous break was on the Surfing World Tour at

0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:36.600
<v Speaker 1>a river mouth and at one point they decided to

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 1>dredge the river mouth because they thought it would be

0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 1>good for the local economy, you know, getting more fishing

0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.840
<v Speaker 1>boats in and out. What actually turned out to have happened,

0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 1>as we found by by looking at the satellite data,

0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:52.480
<v Speaker 1>was economic growth in that little village actually stalled and

0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 1>fell because they ignored the fact that this this surf

0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.640
<v Speaker 1>break was bringing huge numbers of tourists to the town

0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 1>every and so yeah, it just goes to show that,

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, maybe all these these surfers you know, who

0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.479
<v Speaker 1>come out to defend their waves when rock walls are

0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 1>built and ports ports a proposed, they might be onto

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.040
<v Speaker 1>something because protecting these waves can actually have a big

0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 1>impact on people's jobs and their livelihoods. Sam, where did

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.800
<v Speaker 1>you grow up in Australia where you're near the beach?

0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.120
<v Speaker 1>The idea beautiful little part of the world called hawks Nest,

0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.160
<v Speaker 1>a few hours north of Sydney. So I guess yeah,

0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.639
<v Speaker 1>I've been mowing on the topic for a while. Now.

0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.479
<v Speaker 1>Our head of podcasts, Alec McCabe, is through the glass

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.359
<v Speaker 1>window here in the studio in New York. He's just

0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 1>finished reading Barbarian Days. And the most important question is

0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.159
<v Speaker 1>what is your secret spot? Knowing full well it may

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:55.320
<v Speaker 1>no longer be secret after your answer, Well, I'll tell

0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.280
<v Speaker 1>you what. The great thing about this this study is

0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.120
<v Speaker 1>we've got a database about five thousand ways from all

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 1>over the world, and we've also got a bit of

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.600
<v Speaker 1>an idea about how crowded each of those waves up.

0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.520
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, sitting in our computer is is some pretty

0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.520
<v Speaker 1>useful information and in a sense a bit of a

0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.879
<v Speaker 1>um a checklist for places I'd like to visit in

0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.560
<v Speaker 1>the future. But I guess it would be cheating if

0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.199
<v Speaker 1>I gave it away on the radio today. So if

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:27.920
<v Speaker 1>your home is burgled, don't go looking for Alec. Yeah, Sam,

0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.280
<v Speaker 1>it's been a real treat to have you. Thank you

0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.120
<v Speaker 1>so much, Thanks very much, so very much for having

0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 1>you guys. So Dan talking with Sam after that, do

0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.480
<v Speaker 1>you miss your your old home in Bondai? And where

0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.520
<v Speaker 1>were you in Bondai? And did you sir? Okay, So

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.440
<v Speaker 1>I did not live on the beach. I lived up

0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:56.960
<v Speaker 1>closer towards the Bondai Junction train station, but there's no

0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.920
<v Speaker 1>question it was Bonda I, bond I post code. I

0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:05.359
<v Speaker 1>lived there for six months. In prior to that, I

0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.480
<v Speaker 1>was living in Wallara, which is just you know, a hop,

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:13.040
<v Speaker 1>skip and a jump from there, before moving to quiet,

0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 1>a lump of Malaysia, and I've ultimately ended up here

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.920
<v Speaker 1>in New York. I am still an Australian citizen, though

0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 1>I am a naturalized American as well. And Mike, just

0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:28.040
<v Speaker 1>this conversation, it did make me pine. It made it

0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.280
<v Speaker 1>does that to you, doesn't it. It really really does.

0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.159
<v Speaker 1>When I came back to Australia from Russia, I was

0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 1>determined to make my wife like Australia and I found

0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.760
<v Speaker 1>this great little flat at the bottom. It is like

0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.600
<v Speaker 1>a second story on a person's masonette. And it was

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.600
<v Speaker 1>just on del View Avenue, which just drops down to Tamarama.

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:46.479
<v Speaker 1>And when my wife got there, she was like, oh

0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:48.960
<v Speaker 1>my goodness, it's like living at a resort. Now, Parking

0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.200
<v Speaker 1>obviously is not like a resort because it's just jam

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.320
<v Speaker 1>packed in the eastern subives of Sydney. But what a

0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.840
<v Speaker 1>little spot for six or six month introduction to Sydney,

0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.200
<v Speaker 1>what a spot to be. So I did not actually

0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.160
<v Speaker 1>surf on a board. Um. I grew up in Canberra,

0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.000
<v Speaker 1>which for listeners unfamiliar with the geography of Australia, it's

0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:12.400
<v Speaker 1>about three or four hours inland from the coast, depending

0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.120
<v Speaker 1>on how you define it. I did body surf at

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Bondi when I lived there, and you know, as Peter

0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.879
<v Speaker 1>Garrett has said, body surfing is one of the great

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.760
<v Speaker 1>communal things you can do with nature. It is. It

0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.200
<v Speaker 1>is indeed, I guess the only thing that you'd say

0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.639
<v Speaker 1>about surfing is you just go that bit faster, but

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:33.760
<v Speaker 1>it is. I think, I think there is really something

0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.080
<v Speaker 1>something where you do feel at one with the with

0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 1>the environment when you are on a on a wave

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.960
<v Speaker 1>and when you feel that power and the speed that

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:44.680
<v Speaker 1>sends you on and you get that from body surfing

0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.760
<v Speaker 1>as well. So it's a terrific, terrific sport recommended to everybody.

0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:51.879
<v Speaker 1>My son lived in North Carolina for a couple of

0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.879
<v Speaker 1>years and if folks are familiar with the shoreline on

0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.000
<v Speaker 1>the East coast of the United States, there's some pretty

0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:01.920
<v Speaker 1>great beaches down there, Writesville Beach being one, and ultimately

0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.280
<v Speaker 1>he was spending too much time surfing. I had to

0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:08.080
<v Speaker 1>do something about it. Mike, you'll have to join this

0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.119
<v Speaker 1>podcast again. I'd love to. I'd love to. It's been

0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 1>a real pleasure to be on here. Thank you very

0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.960
<v Speaker 1>much for having me. Benchmark will be back next week

0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.800
<v Speaker 1>and until then, you can find us on the Bloomberg terminal,

0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:22.919
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg dot com, our Bloomberg app, as well as iTunes,

0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.000
<v Speaker 1>pocket Cast, and Stitcher. While you're there, take a minute

0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.639
<v Speaker 1>to rate and review the show so more listeners can

0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.119
<v Speaker 1>find us and let us know what you thought of

0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:36.040
<v Speaker 1>the show. You can follow me on Twitter at Moss Underscore, Echo,

0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:41.639
<v Speaker 1>our guest at at Sam e Wills One Word and

0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Mike at m a Heat One. Benchmark is produced by

0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Sarah Patterson. The head of Bloomberg Podcast is Alec McCabe.

0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.560
<v Speaker 1>That's the avid reader I referred to. Thanks for listening,

0:21:53.720 --> 0:22:03.159
<v Speaker 1>See you next time. Get Bat and I Under the

0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:03.919
<v Speaker 1>Boy