1 00:00:15,604 --> 00:00:30,164 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Welcome back to Risky Business, a show about making 2 00:00:30,284 --> 00:00:33,044 Speaker 1: better decisions. I'm Maria Kanakova. 3 00:00:32,964 --> 00:00:35,804 Speaker 2: And I'm Nate Silver. Today in the show, Marie's working 4 00:00:35,844 --> 00:00:39,124 Speaker 2: on a TV show. She's been very coy about it, 5 00:00:39,204 --> 00:00:42,044 Speaker 2: even with me, frankly, but now she has no more 6 00:00:42,804 --> 00:00:44,244 Speaker 2: need to be. We're going to talk a little bit 7 00:00:44,244 --> 00:00:44,644 Speaker 2: about that. 8 00:00:45,364 --> 00:00:47,724 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's going to be the lead in to the 9 00:00:48,124 --> 00:00:50,724 Speaker 1: to the meat of the episode, which is, you know, 10 00:00:51,044 --> 00:00:55,404 Speaker 1: poker and gambling are big topics in movies and shows, 11 00:00:55,444 --> 00:00:58,324 Speaker 1: but Nate, honestly, there are not that many good poker movies. 12 00:00:58,524 --> 00:01:00,004 Speaker 2: There are a lot of bad. Yeah, there are a 13 00:01:00,044 --> 00:01:01,644 Speaker 2: lot of bad poker movies. 14 00:01:01,844 --> 00:01:04,404 Speaker 1: There are a lot of really bad poker movies out there. 15 00:01:04,444 --> 00:01:06,124 Speaker 2: So we're gonna talking about some of the tropes and 16 00:01:06,164 --> 00:01:10,124 Speaker 2: cliches that annoy Maria and I as actually poker players. 17 00:01:10,124 --> 00:01:13,364 Speaker 2: But like, tell us more about this very exciting First all, 18 00:01:13,404 --> 00:01:14,804 Speaker 2: does it have a title? Can you share that? 19 00:01:14,964 --> 00:01:17,484 Speaker 1: Or is that no, this does not have a titled. 20 00:01:17,764 --> 00:01:22,084 Speaker 1: I am working on the most exciting untitled. Okay, it 21 00:01:22,124 --> 00:01:23,484 Speaker 1: is called untitled. 22 00:01:24,604 --> 00:01:29,164 Speaker 2: That could be a title. Yeah, absolutely, what's the show about, Maria, 23 00:01:29,204 --> 00:01:31,644 Speaker 2: It's it's a gambling adjacent. 24 00:01:32,524 --> 00:01:35,444 Speaker 1: Is it is, so we're going to be when we 25 00:01:35,644 --> 00:01:40,164 Speaker 1: start talking about actually good poker movies. The names that 26 00:01:40,204 --> 00:01:43,044 Speaker 1: are going to come up are Brian Koppleman and David Levine, 27 00:01:43,244 --> 00:01:46,604 Speaker 1: who were the creators of Rounders, which, as we will 28 00:01:46,764 --> 00:01:49,924 Speaker 1: tell you, is probably the best poker movie that has 29 00:01:50,004 --> 00:01:52,524 Speaker 1: been made, and the two of them have teamed up 30 00:01:52,604 --> 00:01:58,604 Speaker 1: with Martin Scorsese to a TV He's just a guy, yeah, cigure, 31 00:01:58,804 --> 00:02:01,324 Speaker 1: he's new. He's he's kind of young, like newcomer to 32 00:02:01,484 --> 00:02:04,964 Speaker 1: the you know, to the world of screen. It's okay 33 00:02:05,004 --> 00:02:07,284 Speaker 1: that you haven't heard of him. You know, he might 34 00:02:07,324 --> 00:02:12,164 Speaker 1: as well be untitled. They are teaming up to do 35 00:02:12,244 --> 00:02:15,764 Speaker 1: a TV show about Vegas and about the world of 36 00:02:15,964 --> 00:02:19,964 Speaker 1: casinos and gambling and you know, all of all of 37 00:02:20,004 --> 00:02:23,604 Speaker 1: those fun, high stakes things. And we I'm one of 38 00:02:23,604 --> 00:02:25,884 Speaker 1: the writers on the show, and we've been working on 39 00:02:25,964 --> 00:02:30,724 Speaker 1: it since September, I guess is when the writer's room started. 40 00:02:30,764 --> 00:02:33,644 Speaker 1: But yes, I've been very coy about it because you know, 41 00:02:33,684 --> 00:02:35,564 Speaker 1: it's it's something that we really didn't want to talk 42 00:02:35,564 --> 00:02:38,724 Speaker 1: about until the show was picked up. Nate, I don't 43 00:02:38,724 --> 00:02:42,204 Speaker 1: know how much you know about the inner workings of Hollywood. 44 00:02:42,444 --> 00:02:43,284 Speaker 2: But even when. 45 00:02:45,404 --> 00:02:51,044 Speaker 1: Even if we have such no name people as exactly exactly, 46 00:02:51,484 --> 00:02:54,244 Speaker 1: even if you have people whose name Martin Score score 47 00:02:54,244 --> 00:02:57,844 Speaker 1: what Yeah, even if you have Scorsese and Koppleman and 48 00:02:57,924 --> 00:03:01,164 Speaker 1: Levine and like all of these heavy hitters who have 49 00:03:01,884 --> 00:03:07,404 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, not just sway, but proof 50 00:03:07,484 --> 00:03:10,004 Speaker 1: that they can do things that people want to watch, right, 51 00:03:10,044 --> 00:03:12,004 Speaker 1: which is what which is what Hollywood wants, which is 52 00:03:12,004 --> 00:03:14,964 Speaker 1: what Netflix want. They want people who can bring eyeballs, 53 00:03:15,164 --> 00:03:17,564 Speaker 1: and you have and you have this team who definitely 54 00:03:17,884 --> 00:03:21,204 Speaker 1: has a really good track record and doing this. You know, 55 00:03:21,244 --> 00:03:24,284 Speaker 1: these are these are people who can really make sure 56 00:03:24,324 --> 00:03:27,284 Speaker 1: that viewers come and they they've they're known for making 57 00:03:27,324 --> 00:03:31,524 Speaker 1: good television, good good films. And yet right even still 58 00:03:31,884 --> 00:03:34,004 Speaker 1: that's not a guarantee that something's going to be made 59 00:03:34,044 --> 00:03:37,724 Speaker 1: these days. It's a really, really tough market. So we 60 00:03:37,724 --> 00:03:40,404 Speaker 1: were just waiting until you know, the green light, the 61 00:03:40,404 --> 00:03:43,884 Speaker 1: official announcements, the go aheads and that's where we are 62 00:03:43,964 --> 00:03:46,764 Speaker 1: right now. But it's something that's really exciting. It is 63 00:03:46,924 --> 00:03:50,164 Speaker 1: such a rich world, as you know, you know, I 64 00:03:50,204 --> 00:03:53,884 Speaker 1: spend at least half my year in Vegas and have 65 00:03:54,004 --> 00:03:56,244 Speaker 1: been doing that for a number of years now, and 66 00:03:56,444 --> 00:04:00,204 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to kind of have content that actually 67 00:04:00,964 --> 00:04:05,364 Speaker 1: shows Vegas the way it is and that understands, you know, 68 00:04:05,884 --> 00:04:09,684 Speaker 1: what this world actually entails, because I feel like so 69 00:04:09,844 --> 00:04:13,404 Speaker 1: much out there is written and told by people who 70 00:04:13,484 --> 00:04:16,444 Speaker 1: have no fucking clue to be perfectly honest, right, they're 71 00:04:16,444 --> 00:04:19,284 Speaker 1: not of Vegas, they're not of the gambling world. They 72 00:04:19,284 --> 00:04:22,924 Speaker 1: don't understand the dynamics here, and it shows. So I'm 73 00:04:22,964 --> 00:04:24,804 Speaker 1: really excited. I think we have a great team in 74 00:04:24,884 --> 00:04:28,164 Speaker 1: place of people who actually know what they're talking about. 75 00:04:29,724 --> 00:04:31,444 Speaker 1: I have no idea how the show's going to come out, 76 00:04:31,484 --> 00:04:33,444 Speaker 1: but I'm proud and happy. 77 00:04:33,604 --> 00:04:36,684 Speaker 2: What's it like actually in the writer's room, You're like, 78 00:04:36,724 --> 00:04:37,924 Speaker 2: are you actually in a room? 79 00:04:38,844 --> 00:04:40,124 Speaker 1: Oh, we're actually in a room. 80 00:04:40,204 --> 00:04:42,364 Speaker 2: Yes, we actually you have to have right in front 81 00:04:42,364 --> 00:04:42,964 Speaker 2: of other people. 82 00:04:43,444 --> 00:04:45,724 Speaker 1: No, you don't write in front of other people. The 83 00:04:45,764 --> 00:04:49,084 Speaker 1: way a writers room works is you sit in a 84 00:04:49,164 --> 00:04:52,924 Speaker 1: room with a bunch of people and you brainstorm, and 85 00:04:52,964 --> 00:04:56,924 Speaker 1: you kind of you throw ideas back and forth and 86 00:04:56,964 --> 00:04:59,444 Speaker 1: you develop things. You try to figure out you know, 87 00:04:59,444 --> 00:05:01,404 Speaker 1: what's the shape of an episode going to look like. 88 00:05:01,604 --> 00:05:03,764 Speaker 1: There are lots of whiteboards around and you know you're 89 00:05:03,764 --> 00:05:06,404 Speaker 1: write on those, but it's Yeah, it's more of a 90 00:05:06,924 --> 00:05:12,644 Speaker 1: you don't start saying like scene one, Nate Silver says, Maria, 91 00:05:13,084 --> 00:05:18,044 Speaker 1: what are we talking today about today on Risky Business? Maria, Nate, 92 00:05:18,164 --> 00:05:19,484 Speaker 1: are we going to do this again? 93 00:05:20,164 --> 00:05:20,444 Speaker 2: Nate? 94 00:05:20,804 --> 00:05:22,084 Speaker 1: What are you talking about? 95 00:05:22,284 --> 00:05:22,644 Speaker 2: Maria? 96 00:05:22,964 --> 00:05:27,884 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not how a writer's works. It is much 97 00:05:27,964 --> 00:05:32,644 Speaker 1: more of a kind of back and forth collaborative, like 98 00:05:32,764 --> 00:05:35,364 Speaker 1: let's get ideas going off each other. 99 00:05:35,884 --> 00:05:38,324 Speaker 2: Who actually writes the actual script though, someone's like, I'm 100 00:05:38,324 --> 00:05:40,804 Speaker 2: just gonna take all your inpoint into account and write 101 00:05:40,844 --> 00:05:41,204 Speaker 2: the show. 102 00:05:41,484 --> 00:05:44,484 Speaker 1: It depends. It depends on the show. It depends on 103 00:05:45,964 --> 00:05:48,444 Speaker 1: It depends on how things are set up so far. 104 00:05:48,604 --> 00:05:51,684 Speaker 1: For I actually don't know if I'm allowed to have 105 00:05:51,844 --> 00:05:54,204 Speaker 1: how much I'm allowed to say, but I believe I 106 00:05:54,244 --> 00:05:56,844 Speaker 1: think that this is actually pretty public for this show 107 00:05:56,844 --> 00:05:59,164 Speaker 1: so far. Brian and David, you know, we'll be taking 108 00:05:59,164 --> 00:06:02,284 Speaker 1: the lead on writing all of the episodes because they're 109 00:06:02,324 --> 00:06:03,924 Speaker 1: both really excited about this show. 110 00:06:04,044 --> 00:06:06,164 Speaker 2: So can they just like passively aggressively say oh, I 111 00:06:06,164 --> 00:06:08,164 Speaker 2: appreciate that feedback and then ignore it. 112 00:06:08,844 --> 00:06:12,164 Speaker 1: Oh? Sure, absolutely, But they wouldn't. They wouldn't do that 113 00:06:12,204 --> 00:06:15,044 Speaker 1: if they don't like very They would tell you that 114 00:06:15,124 --> 00:06:15,844 Speaker 1: they don't like it. 115 00:06:16,524 --> 00:06:19,364 Speaker 2: Yes, when's so, what's the timeline for, like when this 116 00:06:19,404 --> 00:06:19,924 Speaker 2: would air? 117 00:06:21,204 --> 00:06:27,924 Speaker 1: Ha ha okay, okay, okay, okay, that's not me, that's Hollywood. 118 00:06:28,204 --> 00:06:31,564 Speaker 2: Okay, No, we yeah, it's. 119 00:06:31,404 --> 00:06:35,484 Speaker 1: It's very early in the process, and so it's unclear. 120 00:06:35,644 --> 00:06:40,124 Speaker 1: I mean, and I you know, I'm not Brian or David, 121 00:06:40,244 --> 00:06:42,404 Speaker 1: so I am not kind of in the driver's seat 122 00:06:42,484 --> 00:06:45,084 Speaker 1: of any of those decisions. So I just know what 123 00:06:45,124 --> 00:06:47,444 Speaker 1: I'm told, and I have no idea when this is 124 00:06:47,484 --> 00:06:50,244 Speaker 1: going to be on air. But yes, this is really fun. 125 00:06:50,884 --> 00:06:54,204 Speaker 1: It's been a great experience. I love the I love 126 00:06:54,244 --> 00:06:57,644 Speaker 1: the team, and I've loved working with them, and I'm 127 00:06:57,684 --> 00:07:00,044 Speaker 1: excited for it too, you know, for it to be 128 00:07:00,124 --> 00:07:03,884 Speaker 1: on everyone's TV screens and or computer screens or phone 129 00:07:03,924 --> 00:07:08,044 Speaker 1: screens or however you consume your content. And on. On 130 00:07:08,084 --> 00:07:10,604 Speaker 1: that note, let's talk a little bit more about, you know, 131 00:07:11,004 --> 00:07:15,004 Speaker 1: poker and gambling movies more broadly, which ones we like, 132 00:07:15,204 --> 00:07:17,884 Speaker 1: which ones we don't like, the good, the bad, the ugly. 133 00:07:17,924 --> 00:07:20,964 Speaker 1: Because Nate, there are a lot of really bad poker 134 00:07:21,004 --> 00:07:21,804 Speaker 1: movies out there. 135 00:07:21,964 --> 00:07:26,124 Speaker 2: We're gonna have like an escalating pyramid of like sins 136 00:07:26,164 --> 00:07:30,484 Speaker 2: against poker that are sometimes depicted in bad poker movies, 137 00:07:30,524 --> 00:07:33,924 Speaker 2: movies that include poker scenes that aren't about poker, you 138 00:07:33,964 --> 00:07:36,404 Speaker 2: know number one, some of whose don't even understand the 139 00:07:36,444 --> 00:07:39,284 Speaker 2: notion of like table stakes, right, they have the notion 140 00:07:39,324 --> 00:07:42,084 Speaker 2: that like, okay, yeah, somebody better it's not gonna call 141 00:07:42,124 --> 00:07:45,684 Speaker 2: my investor, pause the hand, right, we call my investors 142 00:07:45,844 --> 00:07:48,884 Speaker 2: because of a good hand getting million dollars. That's one trope, right. 143 00:07:48,924 --> 00:07:53,684 Speaker 2: Another trope is like the you know, royal flush versus 144 00:07:54,004 --> 00:07:57,524 Speaker 2: for a kind kind of thing where you're your cold. 145 00:07:57,284 --> 00:08:00,244 Speaker 1: Decks, Nate, have you seen a casino royal? 146 00:08:00,684 --> 00:08:04,524 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an example, right, but yeah, a weak 147 00:08:04,564 --> 00:08:07,324 Speaker 2: flush against the busted draw kind of thing, right, And 148 00:08:07,404 --> 00:08:09,364 Speaker 2: the vast majority of the time, like I've never liked, 149 00:08:11,204 --> 00:08:14,444 Speaker 2: I ever lost with quads. Probably not in all the 150 00:08:14,444 --> 00:08:16,204 Speaker 2: poker hands that I've played. I'm trying to think if 151 00:08:16,204 --> 00:08:18,204 Speaker 2: they've sure lost with full houses to quads, right, but 152 00:08:18,244 --> 00:08:21,324 Speaker 2: maybe not lost with quads let alone, you know, straight 153 00:08:21,364 --> 00:08:23,684 Speaker 2: flush over straight flush or things like that, And that's 154 00:08:23,724 --> 00:08:25,764 Speaker 2: that's not realistic. You know. Another big one that like, 155 00:08:25,844 --> 00:08:29,804 Speaker 2: I get annoyed because I'll sometimes deal amateur backyard poker 156 00:08:29,844 --> 00:08:32,484 Speaker 2: games with one group of friends, right, people picking their 157 00:08:32,524 --> 00:08:35,204 Speaker 2: cards up way off the table to look at them 158 00:08:35,284 --> 00:08:36,764 Speaker 2: like that's super Oh my god. 159 00:08:36,804 --> 00:08:40,804 Speaker 1: But that no, Nate, that happens all the time. Yeah, 160 00:08:40,844 --> 00:08:41,644 Speaker 1: with bad players. 161 00:08:41,684 --> 00:08:42,044 Speaker 2: I see. 162 00:08:42,124 --> 00:08:46,244 Speaker 1: So I just played in a charity event last week, 163 00:08:46,684 --> 00:08:49,204 Speaker 1: great great school charity, but there were tons of people 164 00:08:49,244 --> 00:08:52,004 Speaker 1: who don't know how to play poker, and the first thing, 165 00:08:52,084 --> 00:08:53,804 Speaker 1: or who play it but like not that well, the 166 00:08:53,804 --> 00:08:55,564 Speaker 1: first thing they do is they take their cards up 167 00:08:55,564 --> 00:08:56,884 Speaker 1: and they put them in our face. I'm like, no, 168 00:08:57,044 --> 00:09:00,084 Speaker 1: put that shit down, right, like, that is not how 169 00:09:00,124 --> 00:09:02,604 Speaker 1: you look at your cards. But I've had that happen 170 00:09:03,364 --> 00:09:06,204 Speaker 1: in tournaments as well, Like there are players who just 171 00:09:06,364 --> 00:09:09,004 Speaker 1: do that, and I'm like, you have no business playing 172 00:09:09,044 --> 00:09:12,324 Speaker 1: a thousand dollar tournament or whatever, you know, five thousand 173 00:09:12,364 --> 00:09:14,404 Speaker 1: dollars tournament if that's how you look at your cards, 174 00:09:14,444 --> 00:09:17,084 Speaker 1: because people can see that. And I do try to 175 00:09:17,124 --> 00:09:20,484 Speaker 1: warn people, you know, not to do it, but sometimes 176 00:09:20,524 --> 00:09:23,324 Speaker 1: they just won't listen and they just keep keep putting 177 00:09:23,364 --> 00:09:26,484 Speaker 1: them up. But in these movies, oftentimes that's how everyone 178 00:09:26,604 --> 00:09:29,084 Speaker 1: looks at their cards, and I think that that it 179 00:09:29,484 --> 00:09:32,204 Speaker 1: is very frustrating when you see that. You're like, no, 180 00:09:32,204 --> 00:09:35,124 Speaker 1: no professional player would actually ever look at a hand 181 00:09:35,124 --> 00:09:37,484 Speaker 1: that way, and yet you see all the time, hmm, 182 00:09:38,044 --> 00:09:41,404 Speaker 1: let's see what do I have here, Let's show it 183 00:09:41,444 --> 00:09:42,404 Speaker 1: to the cameras. 184 00:09:43,084 --> 00:09:45,644 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're trying to conceal information, right, that's the name 185 00:09:45,644 --> 00:09:47,284 Speaker 2: of the game. And like, yeah, you know the people 186 00:09:47,284 --> 00:09:49,524 Speaker 2: who unintentionally at their cards up too high, but like 187 00:09:49,564 --> 00:09:52,724 Speaker 2: that's that's like bad antiquette. There's very little awareness in 188 00:09:52,804 --> 00:09:57,124 Speaker 2: poker movies of like what the stack sizes are, right, 189 00:09:57,484 --> 00:09:59,604 Speaker 2: you know, yes, what is the amount that you have 190 00:10:00,204 --> 00:10:03,004 Speaker 2: behind you? Relatively amount in the pot, which can like 191 00:10:03,124 --> 00:10:05,524 Speaker 2: radically change strategy. Right, if there's a hundred thousand dollars 192 00:10:05,524 --> 00:10:07,124 Speaker 2: in the pot and you have a million dollars behind you, 193 00:10:07,764 --> 00:10:11,124 Speaker 2: very different than if you have only quote unquote another 194 00:10:11,164 --> 00:10:14,884 Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars with In fact, early poker broadcasts you 195 00:10:14,884 --> 00:10:20,244 Speaker 2: watch like early early World Series coverage or early WPT coverage, right, 196 00:10:20,684 --> 00:10:22,884 Speaker 2: and they often don't list the stack sizes, which makes 197 00:10:22,884 --> 00:10:27,844 Speaker 2: it like to a first approximation approximately useless to professional 198 00:10:27,844 --> 00:10:29,764 Speaker 2: book a player. But and you don't have It's like 199 00:10:29,964 --> 00:10:31,564 Speaker 2: it's like watching a mess we and you don't know 200 00:10:31,604 --> 00:10:33,204 Speaker 2: what the score is. Right, There's a really exciting play 201 00:10:33,204 --> 00:10:35,244 Speaker 2: and we're not sure which team won. So that's like 202 00:10:35,284 --> 00:10:37,884 Speaker 2: another trope that needs to be needs to be killed. 203 00:10:38,724 --> 00:10:40,644 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that a lot of times. By 204 00:10:40,644 --> 00:10:42,764 Speaker 1: the way, Casino Royale is a fun movie. I like 205 00:10:42,844 --> 00:10:45,764 Speaker 1: that movie. I think it's a great movie. Daniel Craig 206 00:10:45,884 --> 00:10:48,644 Speaker 1: is wonderful. But one of the things that that movie, like, 207 00:10:48,724 --> 00:10:51,644 Speaker 1: it really bugs me is if you think about kind 208 00:10:51,644 --> 00:10:54,284 Speaker 1: of the sizes of those pots and those steaks, like 209 00:10:54,444 --> 00:10:57,724 Speaker 1: no one has anything behind, right, Their buy ins are 210 00:10:57,764 --> 00:11:02,244 Speaker 1: completely illogical when it comes to the stakes of the game, Like, wait, 211 00:11:02,364 --> 00:11:05,444 Speaker 1: if we're playing that much a hand, then everyone, then 212 00:11:05,564 --> 00:11:07,244 Speaker 1: you're not buying in for a million dollars. You have 213 00:11:07,284 --> 00:11:09,484 Speaker 1: to buy in for a lot more, right, Like that 214 00:11:09,644 --> 00:11:13,164 Speaker 1: stacked to pot ratio should not be happening at these intervals, 215 00:11:13,164 --> 00:11:15,764 Speaker 1: and so people really do lose that sense of perspective 216 00:11:15,764 --> 00:11:18,164 Speaker 1: because they're like, oh, a million sounds like a big number, right, 217 00:11:18,204 --> 00:11:20,444 Speaker 1: And this sounds like a big number, but there is 218 00:11:20,604 --> 00:11:23,804 Speaker 1: a lack of kind of knowledge about what the number 219 00:11:23,844 --> 00:11:26,364 Speaker 1: should be. And let me then add on to that. 220 00:11:26,444 --> 00:11:30,244 Speaker 1: Things that can frustrate me is that movies tend to 221 00:11:30,284 --> 00:11:34,244 Speaker 1: conflate tournament and cash poker, right, like there's no clear 222 00:11:34,364 --> 00:11:37,484 Speaker 1: they don't really understand that the two are very different games, 223 00:11:37,844 --> 00:11:39,884 Speaker 1: and that you can play poker where chips have no 224 00:11:39,964 --> 00:11:42,964 Speaker 1: monetary value. And so it really frustrates me when you 225 00:11:42,964 --> 00:11:46,564 Speaker 1: see people playing a tournament and they're announcing their bets 226 00:11:46,564 --> 00:11:51,124 Speaker 1: in terms of dollars and they're basically kind of carrying 227 00:11:51,124 --> 00:11:53,044 Speaker 1: on as if it's a cash game. But I'm like, wait, no, 228 00:11:53,124 --> 00:11:55,804 Speaker 1: you're in a tournament. That's not how this works, right, 229 00:11:56,004 --> 00:11:57,644 Speaker 1: You're not betting ten dollars. 230 00:11:57,324 --> 00:11:59,564 Speaker 2: Or you're not now my mom, my mom is a 231 00:11:59,644 --> 00:12:03,364 Speaker 2: victim of So I was playing in some World Poker 232 00:12:03,404 --> 00:12:06,124 Speaker 2: taur tournament two years ago, right, and like whatever, you 233 00:12:06,124 --> 00:12:09,364 Speaker 2: start out with sixty thousan chips, a hundred thousand pips thing, 234 00:12:09,404 --> 00:12:11,284 Speaker 2: maybe an impt and like I wound up with like 235 00:12:12,204 --> 00:12:13,724 Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty thousand SCHIPs at the end of 236 00:12:13,764 --> 00:12:15,724 Speaker 2: day one, was one of the chip leaders. It got 237 00:12:15,724 --> 00:12:17,684 Speaker 2: circular on social media. My mom was like, you made 238 00:12:17,684 --> 00:12:19,844 Speaker 2: four to few thousand dollars. I'm like, no, Mom, might 239 00:12:19,884 --> 00:12:23,644 Speaker 2: have made I've made zero dollars so far. I think 240 00:12:23,684 --> 00:12:26,324 Speaker 2: I eventually catched that hearing it for seven thousand dollars 241 00:12:26,764 --> 00:12:30,044 Speaker 2: or something, right, which is probably your modal expectation. After 242 00:12:30,164 --> 00:12:31,324 Speaker 2: day one, even with a big. 243 00:12:31,164 --> 00:12:34,924 Speaker 1: Stack, And so, yeah, your mom can be forgiven, because 244 00:12:34,924 --> 00:12:37,164 Speaker 1: a lot of times movies make it seem that way 245 00:12:37,364 --> 00:12:39,644 Speaker 1: with like the dollar signs and all of that. But yes, 246 00:12:39,724 --> 00:12:41,644 Speaker 1: I've had people be like, oh my god, why can't 247 00:12:41,684 --> 00:12:43,404 Speaker 1: you just take it and leave at the end of 248 00:12:43,444 --> 00:12:45,844 Speaker 1: the day. I'm like, because this isn't money, Like this 249 00:12:45,884 --> 00:12:49,444 Speaker 1: is play money. These are play chips, and I can't know, 250 00:12:49,604 --> 00:12:51,884 Speaker 1: of course, Like believe me, if I could not, if 251 00:12:51,884 --> 00:12:55,444 Speaker 1: I could cash out a million right now, then then 252 00:12:55,484 --> 00:12:58,484 Speaker 1: I'd be I'd be out of there. By the way. 253 00:12:58,884 --> 00:13:00,884 Speaker 1: Great poker movie that I would put in my top 254 00:13:00,924 --> 00:13:03,084 Speaker 1: three and eight, I'm wondering if you've seen this one 255 00:13:03,484 --> 00:13:09,284 Speaker 1: is California Split, which is a classic by Robert Altman, 256 00:13:09,564 --> 00:13:13,484 Speaker 1: and it's about two friends, one of whom's a degenerate gambler, 257 00:13:13,484 --> 00:13:17,284 Speaker 1: one of whom becomes a degenerate gambler by association. But 258 00:13:17,524 --> 00:13:20,644 Speaker 1: there's a there are some great poker scenes in there, 259 00:13:21,644 --> 00:13:23,804 Speaker 1: and I think that that also one of the things 260 00:13:23,804 --> 00:13:27,404 Speaker 1: that gets right is it really depicts kind of that 261 00:13:28,204 --> 00:13:32,564 Speaker 1: the mentality of the gambler who is up and makes 262 00:13:32,604 --> 00:13:37,084 Speaker 1: money and won't walk away right, who thinks that okay, 263 00:13:37,124 --> 00:13:39,604 Speaker 1: you know, but then at the end, I mean, I'm 264 00:13:39,644 --> 00:13:42,364 Speaker 1: gonna spoiler this. This movie came out decades ago. If 265 00:13:42,404 --> 00:13:45,324 Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, Like, just watch the movie. It's 266 00:13:45,324 --> 00:13:47,324 Speaker 1: a good movie. But at the end, one of them 267 00:13:47,364 --> 00:13:50,204 Speaker 1: does walk away, right, He does actually make that decision 268 00:13:50,604 --> 00:13:55,004 Speaker 1: after winning in this huge game with Amarillo. Slim actually 269 00:13:55,004 --> 00:13:58,564 Speaker 1: an amoralos. Slim has a part in the movie and 270 00:13:59,044 --> 00:14:01,684 Speaker 1: ends up ends up walking away winner and then splitting 271 00:14:01,804 --> 00:14:04,844 Speaker 1: the winnings and just saying I'm done. And I think 272 00:14:04,884 --> 00:14:08,364 Speaker 1: that that's very cool, and that does happen as well, 273 00:14:08,524 --> 00:14:11,284 Speaker 1: but it does depict to that kind of mental calculus 274 00:14:11,324 --> 00:14:13,924 Speaker 1: also of is this a good spot? Is this a 275 00:14:13,964 --> 00:14:18,084 Speaker 1: good game? Right? Can I make more money here? When 276 00:14:18,124 --> 00:14:20,804 Speaker 1: should I walk away? When did I get lucky? Because 277 00:14:20,844 --> 00:14:22,804 Speaker 1: I just beat players who were a lot better than 278 00:14:22,844 --> 00:14:25,484 Speaker 1: I was a lot of people don't have that discipline 279 00:14:25,484 --> 00:14:28,164 Speaker 1: and don't have that self awareness, and a lot of people, 280 00:14:28,524 --> 00:14:31,044 Speaker 1: as we've talked about in the past, night end up 281 00:14:31,244 --> 00:14:34,164 Speaker 1: having an overblown sense of their own edge and their 282 00:14:34,204 --> 00:14:37,364 Speaker 1: own skill. And so it's such a good poker skill 283 00:14:37,444 --> 00:14:39,404 Speaker 1: to know, Okay, you know what, I'm just going to 284 00:14:39,444 --> 00:14:41,644 Speaker 1: take this money and I'm going to leave. You don't 285 00:14:41,644 --> 00:14:44,244 Speaker 1: see that often depicted correctly in movies. 286 00:14:44,644 --> 00:14:46,404 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not quite a poker movie, but as a 287 00:14:46,444 --> 00:14:49,644 Speaker 2: gambling movie. The movie twenty one, which is based on 288 00:14:49,684 --> 00:14:52,004 Speaker 2: the book Bringing Down the House by Ben Mezrick, that 289 00:14:52,044 --> 00:14:54,164 Speaker 2: came out kind of right when it was getting into poker, 290 00:14:54,204 --> 00:14:56,404 Speaker 2: and like that, I guess the book could come out 291 00:14:56,444 --> 00:14:59,004 Speaker 2: the movie was maybe later, right, And I know Jeff 292 00:14:59,044 --> 00:15:03,284 Speaker 2: ma one of the principles behind this Good Guy, you know, 293 00:15:03,404 --> 00:15:05,964 Speaker 2: that depicted a very romantic idea of like you kind 294 00:15:05,964 --> 00:15:10,484 Speaker 2: of fly into Vegas and you're literally bringing home suitcases 295 00:15:10,524 --> 00:15:13,284 Speaker 2: of cash, right and kind of staying up all night. 296 00:15:13,324 --> 00:15:15,644 Speaker 2: And when I talked to Jeff for my book about 297 00:15:15,644 --> 00:15:17,604 Speaker 2: his experience the MIT black Jack Team, which is what 298 00:15:17,644 --> 00:15:19,804 Speaker 2: it's about, it's like, yeah, no, right, we would kind 299 00:15:19,804 --> 00:15:22,204 Speaker 2: of like you know, we would go and this is 300 00:15:22,284 --> 00:15:25,564 Speaker 2: before you even had nightclubs in Las Vegas, right, we 301 00:15:25,604 --> 00:15:27,364 Speaker 2: were when it was always going to Vegas. We're going 302 00:15:27,364 --> 00:15:30,324 Speaker 2: to some fucking casino and like Dubuque, Iowa half the time. 303 00:15:30,444 --> 00:15:32,444 Speaker 2: So we thought it was a sharper or a less sharp, 304 00:15:33,764 --> 00:15:35,964 Speaker 2: you know, less detection of card counters, which is what 305 00:15:36,004 --> 00:15:39,844 Speaker 2: they were doing. Right. So, like you know, real gambling 306 00:15:40,764 --> 00:15:44,644 Speaker 2: is a grind most of the time, right, And like 307 00:15:44,724 --> 00:15:46,004 Speaker 2: one thing you see too, like this is a problem 308 00:15:46,044 --> 00:15:47,644 Speaker 2: with like movies in general, Like Maria, I would like 309 00:15:47,644 --> 00:15:51,004 Speaker 2: for there be like a movie or this TV show 310 00:15:51,084 --> 00:15:57,564 Speaker 2: right where like there are complications that unfold and then 311 00:15:57,604 --> 00:16:01,804 Speaker 2: they kind of unravel themselves in a very non dramatic way. 312 00:16:01,804 --> 00:16:05,284 Speaker 2: It's like, oh, that was just a misunderstanding. That was 313 00:16:05,284 --> 00:16:08,804 Speaker 2: just a misunderstanding. Actually, right, let's just make up and 314 00:16:08,844 --> 00:16:10,924 Speaker 2: you know, and nothing much happens to the anti clima. 315 00:16:10,964 --> 00:16:13,764 Speaker 2: Actually know all that foreshadowing. Those are just weird coincidences. 316 00:16:13,804 --> 00:16:16,484 Speaker 2: Nothing actually happened, just to keep people on their toes, 317 00:16:17,204 --> 00:16:21,084 Speaker 2: just to have some like gto bluffing frequency when you're 318 00:16:21,084 --> 00:16:23,404 Speaker 2: having the more predictable I guess outcome, you know what 319 00:16:23,404 --> 00:16:26,204 Speaker 2: I mean. But that probably won't happen. But yeah, Jeff's 320 00:16:26,204 --> 00:16:29,564 Speaker 2: biggest complain about the book, particularly the movie. I mean 321 00:16:29,604 --> 00:16:33,044 Speaker 2: the book itself and is a althor another person I 322 00:16:33,164 --> 00:16:36,284 Speaker 2: met friendly guy, you know. Ben says, this is kind 323 00:16:36,284 --> 00:16:39,404 Speaker 2: of a popular book and I wouldn't say inspire bat 324 00:16:39,404 --> 00:16:42,004 Speaker 2: toy story, but it's trying to to make a little 325 00:16:42,004 --> 00:16:44,964 Speaker 2: more cinematic and the movie goes further. Right, Jeff says, look, 326 00:16:45,364 --> 00:16:48,404 Speaker 2: the movie didn't depict so Heet really mad. When a 327 00:16:48,524 --> 00:16:52,964 Speaker 2: scene depicts him or his character on tilt, the character 328 00:16:53,124 --> 00:16:58,524 Speaker 2: like loses every single hand he plays, Whereas conversely, when 329 00:16:58,524 --> 00:17:01,764 Speaker 2: they're doing things the right way right, they win every 330 00:17:01,764 --> 00:17:03,884 Speaker 2: single hand. They might literally not be a hand that 331 00:17:03,924 --> 00:17:06,244 Speaker 2: they don't win. Right. Similarly, in like rain Man, it 332 00:17:06,284 --> 00:17:08,924 Speaker 2: doesn't Hoffman character right, he goes and they win every hand. 333 00:17:09,004 --> 00:17:11,644 Speaker 2: And like blackjack, even if you kind of know how 334 00:17:11,684 --> 00:17:13,924 Speaker 2: many cards you're in the bet, yeah, you might have 335 00:17:13,964 --> 00:17:17,004 Speaker 2: a fifty two, fifty three to fifty four percent edge, 336 00:17:17,004 --> 00:17:18,884 Speaker 2: which is very big for gambling, right, but you're not. 337 00:17:18,884 --> 00:17:21,004 Speaker 1: Going to be winning huge by the way, Yeah, yeah, but. 338 00:17:21,044 --> 00:17:22,404 Speaker 2: You're not gonna be winning every bet. 339 00:17:22,484 --> 00:17:22,604 Speaker 1: Right. 340 00:17:22,604 --> 00:17:26,284 Speaker 2: It's very hard to depict like randomness, and it's hard 341 00:17:26,284 --> 00:17:27,564 Speaker 2: in real life. It's hard to say I made a 342 00:17:27,564 --> 00:17:30,564 Speaker 2: good forecast, I made a good bet. There was a 343 00:17:30,564 --> 00:17:32,604 Speaker 2: fifty five to forty five bet, which is great. You're 344 00:17:32,604 --> 00:17:35,124 Speaker 2: still going to lose that bet forty five percent of 345 00:17:35,204 --> 00:17:36,924 Speaker 2: the time. Right. The notion of a sure thing, the 346 00:17:36,964 --> 00:17:39,844 Speaker 2: notion of you know, variance, goes out the window, and 347 00:17:39,924 --> 00:17:41,564 Speaker 2: randomness goes out the window. It's all the kind of 348 00:17:41,564 --> 00:17:45,124 Speaker 2: a morality play, and like that's another unrealistic component of 349 00:17:45,204 --> 00:17:49,044 Speaker 2: like of movies in general, but especially gambling adjacent movies. 350 00:17:49,764 --> 00:17:52,164 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean I think that a lot 351 00:17:52,204 --> 00:17:57,644 Speaker 1: of things have to change in service of storytelling and 352 00:17:58,444 --> 00:18:02,284 Speaker 1: creating a story that's both visually compelling and also has 353 00:18:02,324 --> 00:18:08,004 Speaker 1: a compelling kind of storyline and that seems plausible to people. So, 354 00:18:08,764 --> 00:18:10,644 Speaker 1: you know the part of what you were talking about, 355 00:18:10,684 --> 00:18:12,804 Speaker 1: how like the actual trips did not look at all 356 00:18:12,884 --> 00:18:15,964 Speaker 1: like that, you know, not flying to Las Vegas for 357 00:18:16,004 --> 00:18:18,764 Speaker 1: these glamorous weekends every time and you're obviously like in 358 00:18:18,764 --> 00:18:21,844 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere and like not very glamorous casinos, 359 00:18:21,884 --> 00:18:24,204 Speaker 1: doing not very glamorous things. That's part of it. That's 360 00:18:24,284 --> 00:18:26,124 Speaker 1: kind of part of the visual appeal and kind of 361 00:18:26,124 --> 00:18:29,724 Speaker 1: the story. But the other part of it, the randomness. 362 00:18:30,004 --> 00:18:35,124 Speaker 1: I think that that is something that you know, the 363 00:18:35,204 --> 00:18:40,324 Speaker 1: human mind just completely struggles with. And poker. We've talked 364 00:18:40,364 --> 00:18:43,644 Speaker 1: about this before, as I spoke about with Frank Lance, 365 00:18:43,684 --> 00:18:47,164 Speaker 1: who who studies games. He's a game designer. He teaches 366 00:18:47,204 --> 00:18:51,404 Speaker 1: games at NYU. You know, he loves poker because poker 367 00:18:51,524 --> 00:18:54,564 Speaker 1: is a game that teaches you what true randomness looks 368 00:18:54,644 --> 00:18:57,524 Speaker 1: like and he told me that you can't do that 369 00:18:57,644 --> 00:19:00,804 Speaker 1: in a game that's designed, you know, like a computer game, 370 00:19:00,884 --> 00:19:04,364 Speaker 1: because true randomness doesn't seem random to the players, right, 371 00:19:04,404 --> 00:19:07,524 Speaker 1: So they actually have like random number generators that aren't random, 372 00:19:07,804 --> 00:19:10,004 Speaker 1: where you have like, okay, like if this person has 373 00:19:10,124 --> 00:19:13,844 Speaker 1: lost this many times, you know, then you need to 374 00:19:13,884 --> 00:19:16,564 Speaker 1: have him win now because they're gonna think that the 375 00:19:16,604 --> 00:19:20,404 Speaker 1: game is rigged. And so it's just disconnect where when 376 00:19:20,404 --> 00:19:23,444 Speaker 1: the game isn't rigged, it feels rigged, and when it's rigged, 377 00:19:23,484 --> 00:19:27,284 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel rigged because the actual way that randomness 378 00:19:27,364 --> 00:19:30,164 Speaker 1: works can feel rigged right to the human mind. Just why, 379 00:19:30,164 --> 00:19:32,324 Speaker 1: by the way, so many people are like, oh, Booker's rigged, 380 00:19:32,404 --> 00:19:34,564 Speaker 1: like this is rigged. That's rigged, because they're like, how 381 00:19:34,564 --> 00:19:37,364 Speaker 1: improbable is I'm like, no, it's not fucking rigged, Like 382 00:19:37,444 --> 00:19:39,884 Speaker 1: this is just character like this is how probable it 383 00:19:39,964 --> 00:19:43,724 Speaker 1: can be, yes, but yeah, this is how like this 384 00:19:43,804 --> 00:19:48,724 Speaker 1: is how probabilities actually work. But now, like if you 385 00:19:48,804 --> 00:19:53,444 Speaker 1: can't grasp that when you yourself are playing a game, now, 386 00:19:53,524 --> 00:19:57,724 Speaker 1: imagine like the poor filmmaker trying to make something seem 387 00:19:57,804 --> 00:20:02,884 Speaker 1: realistic and trying to make randomness and variants look real, like, 388 00:20:03,324 --> 00:20:05,524 Speaker 1: oh man, that's a thankless task, right. 389 00:20:05,404 --> 00:20:05,724 Speaker 2: You can't. 390 00:20:05,764 --> 00:20:09,644 Speaker 1: You can't, like, for the sake of storytelling, you need 391 00:20:09,684 --> 00:20:13,564 Speaker 1: to actually play around with it so that it seems 392 00:20:14,004 --> 00:20:16,804 Speaker 1: random even though it's not actually random, and that's not 393 00:20:17,044 --> 00:20:21,324 Speaker 1: how randomness works. And so you do have this constant 394 00:20:21,364 --> 00:20:24,044 Speaker 1: tension where like you understand what it should be like 395 00:20:24,084 --> 00:20:26,324 Speaker 1: in reality, but you can't do it right. You're making 396 00:20:26,364 --> 00:20:28,644 Speaker 1: a movie. You have to keep the audience engauge, and 397 00:20:28,724 --> 00:20:31,364 Speaker 1: even when you're a game designer, you can't do it, 398 00:20:31,604 --> 00:20:35,404 Speaker 1: which is once again why Frank Lance likes the purity 399 00:20:35,444 --> 00:20:38,564 Speaker 1: of poker, because you know the game is what it is, 400 00:20:39,284 --> 00:20:41,844 Speaker 1: and you can't fuck with it by by being a 401 00:20:41,964 --> 00:20:45,124 Speaker 1: game designer who you know, decides, Oh, you know this person, 402 00:20:45,484 --> 00:20:48,524 Speaker 1: this person has lost a flip Nate ten times in 403 00:20:48,564 --> 00:20:51,644 Speaker 1: a row. They've got to win it this time around. 404 00:20:52,044 --> 00:20:55,524 Speaker 1: Oh man, this person has gotten their aces cracked three times, 405 00:20:55,564 --> 00:20:57,724 Speaker 1: you know, and they're supposed to win seventy five percent 406 00:20:57,724 --> 00:21:01,084 Speaker 1: of the time. We're gonna we're gonna have to make 407 00:21:01,124 --> 00:21:03,684 Speaker 1: sure that the next time that he's dealt a says 408 00:21:03,964 --> 00:21:06,204 Speaker 1: he's going to win. That ain't how it works. It 409 00:21:06,204 --> 00:21:12,164 Speaker 1: would be nice if it were, but it's not. And 410 00:21:12,244 --> 00:21:29,124 Speaker 1: we'll be back right after this. What's the first movie 411 00:21:29,124 --> 00:21:32,244 Speaker 1: that you remember seeing that's kind of a poker movie? 412 00:21:32,324 --> 00:21:34,004 Speaker 1: And I don't think it has to be like a 413 00:21:34,004 --> 00:21:36,684 Speaker 1: movie where poker is the plot, because there aren't very 414 00:21:36,684 --> 00:21:39,084 Speaker 1: many of those, but a movie where poker plays like 415 00:21:39,124 --> 00:21:40,324 Speaker 1: a pivotal role. 416 00:21:40,844 --> 00:21:42,804 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I'm trying to think more broadly about 417 00:21:42,844 --> 00:21:45,204 Speaker 2: like what my image of poker was like before I 418 00:21:45,244 --> 00:21:48,324 Speaker 2: started playing, and then before I started playing kind of seriously. 419 00:21:49,644 --> 00:21:52,044 Speaker 2: But yeah, I did see Rounders, which is a movie 420 00:21:51,684 --> 00:21:55,724 Speaker 2: by of course, Brian Koppleman and David Levine, who you're 421 00:21:55,764 --> 00:21:57,244 Speaker 2: working with on this new show. 422 00:21:57,484 --> 00:22:00,964 Speaker 1: Yes, Brian and David are wonderful, and Rounders is the 423 00:22:01,004 --> 00:22:02,484 Speaker 1: first poker movie I ever saw. 424 00:22:02,724 --> 00:22:05,604 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Rounders is so Brian is a real 425 00:22:06,164 --> 00:22:10,244 Speaker 2: poker player I've played. He is. It's Brian. I don't 426 00:22:10,284 --> 00:22:14,724 Speaker 2: think Brian would describe himself as like an expert poker player, 427 00:22:14,724 --> 00:22:16,724 Speaker 2: but he loves the game, right, you know. He talked 428 00:22:16,764 --> 00:22:21,004 Speaker 2: to me about like the exhilarating sense that you get 429 00:22:21,044 --> 00:22:24,204 Speaker 2: when you're kind of like doing this thing that's kind 430 00:22:24,204 --> 00:22:26,564 Speaker 2: of in this liminal space poker right where you're playing 431 00:22:26,604 --> 00:22:29,524 Speaker 2: late at night in an underground room somewhere where it's 432 00:22:29,524 --> 00:22:31,524 Speaker 2: literally underground or not depends. Sometimes it's on a high 433 00:22:31,604 --> 00:22:34,724 Speaker 2: rise or something, right, and having the shared experience of 434 00:22:34,764 --> 00:22:37,564 Speaker 2: like taking risks and so like in general, like his 435 00:22:38,964 --> 00:22:42,604 Speaker 2: poker scenes get things. I mean, if you wanted to 436 00:22:42,604 --> 00:22:45,244 Speaker 2: get them fully right, I'm sure he would, right, but 437 00:22:45,284 --> 00:22:48,804 Speaker 2: they get things most of the way right, you know, 438 00:22:48,924 --> 00:22:54,484 Speaker 2: I mean look, Rounders famously exaggerates the importance of tells. 439 00:22:54,564 --> 00:22:58,644 Speaker 2: There there's a tell involving an Oreo cookie, for example, 440 00:22:58,844 --> 00:23:06,324 Speaker 2: right that the John Mackowich character exhibits. Let's play some CODs. 441 00:23:07,564 --> 00:23:10,644 Speaker 3: The rule is this, you spottom to tell, you don't 442 00:23:10,644 --> 00:23:14,804 Speaker 3: say a fucking word. I finally spotted KGB's and usually 443 00:23:14,804 --> 00:23:16,764 Speaker 3: I'd have let him go on chewing those oreos till 444 00:23:16,804 --> 00:23:19,084 Speaker 3: he was dead broke. But I don't have that kind 445 00:23:19,124 --> 00:23:19,524 Speaker 3: of time. 446 00:23:21,164 --> 00:23:23,844 Speaker 2: It's usually not quite it's a movie. It's a movie. 447 00:23:23,924 --> 00:23:27,844 Speaker 2: It's a movie, right, you know, I kind of came 448 00:23:27,884 --> 00:23:31,484 Speaker 2: of age and like the Rounder's mini boom for poker, 449 00:23:31,524 --> 00:23:34,204 Speaker 2: where like you know, geeky twenty something meant but like 450 00:23:34,404 --> 00:23:36,004 Speaker 2: this seems really cool, right, This is a way to 451 00:23:36,084 --> 00:23:38,764 Speaker 2: like have this experience where is a nerd you can 452 00:23:38,804 --> 00:23:39,564 Speaker 2: kind of make good. 453 00:23:39,844 --> 00:23:44,884 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that Rounders definitely captivated me. Now, I 454 00:23:44,924 --> 00:23:47,324 Speaker 1: did not start playing poker after I was pretty young, 455 00:23:47,844 --> 00:23:50,724 Speaker 1: so I couldn't play poker when Rounders came out, But 456 00:23:50,804 --> 00:23:54,084 Speaker 1: I do remember seeing it and just loving the movie. 457 00:23:54,204 --> 00:23:56,444 Speaker 1: I think my favorite thing about the movie was probably 458 00:23:56,444 --> 00:24:01,004 Speaker 1: Matt Damon back then it's just me perfectly honest and yeah, 459 00:24:01,084 --> 00:24:05,924 Speaker 1: I know, I know, and you know, John Malkovich like 460 00:24:06,004 --> 00:24:09,084 Speaker 1: the since you know, since I'm Russian and like his 461 00:24:09,404 --> 00:24:11,364 Speaker 1: should act. It was just hilarious, like it was just 462 00:24:11,404 --> 00:24:14,484 Speaker 1: a fun movie. But it definitely stayed with me because 463 00:24:14,604 --> 00:24:17,604 Speaker 1: you can tell that Brian and David both play poker, 464 00:24:17,644 --> 00:24:20,084 Speaker 1: both love the game. By the way, Brian has a 465 00:24:20,084 --> 00:24:22,924 Speaker 1: cameo in the movie which is a lot of fun 466 00:24:23,044 --> 00:24:26,724 Speaker 1: at Borgata. He's at the poker table, so that's you know, 467 00:24:26,884 --> 00:24:29,884 Speaker 1: I think that's a fun little moment in there. And 468 00:24:30,084 --> 00:24:31,924 Speaker 1: ask any poker player, and I think you're going to 469 00:24:32,004 --> 00:24:34,564 Speaker 1: get Rounders as one of the top ones. 470 00:24:34,764 --> 00:24:37,164 Speaker 2: So I mean, obviously every kind of poker player's same. 471 00:24:37,204 --> 00:24:39,564 Speaker 2: As quote is from Rounders. 472 00:24:39,964 --> 00:24:42,284 Speaker 1: Well play a clip for our audience. 473 00:24:43,564 --> 00:24:48,244 Speaker 3: Listen here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker 474 00:24:48,644 --> 00:24:52,124 Speaker 3: in your first half hour at the table, and you 475 00:24:52,164 --> 00:24:52,604 Speaker 3: are the. 476 00:24:52,524 --> 00:24:56,084 Speaker 2: Sucker by the way, do you leave it to be true? 477 00:24:57,364 --> 00:24:57,484 Speaker 2: Is that? 478 00:24:59,924 --> 00:25:02,164 Speaker 1: No, I don't think. I don't think that's true. I 479 00:25:02,204 --> 00:25:05,764 Speaker 1: think that, but I do think that there's truth in it. 480 00:25:05,884 --> 00:25:09,924 Speaker 1: Like with so many sayings, right that the moment I 481 00:25:09,964 --> 00:25:14,244 Speaker 1: always caution people against overconfidence, right, and the moment that 482 00:25:14,284 --> 00:25:18,324 Speaker 1: you think that you kind of have the edge over everyone, 483 00:25:18,364 --> 00:25:21,324 Speaker 1: you should be very careful. And I would also say 484 00:25:21,364 --> 00:25:23,404 Speaker 1: that it's not true for me because I play in 485 00:25:23,404 --> 00:25:27,524 Speaker 1: tournaments right where your seat draw is random. Matt Damon 486 00:25:27,724 --> 00:25:32,564 Speaker 1: Rounders is about cash games, and there you actually I 487 00:25:32,564 --> 00:25:35,244 Speaker 1: think there's much more truth there because you have to say, like, 488 00:25:35,804 --> 00:25:40,124 Speaker 1: especially if it's a cash game where like there's some 489 00:25:40,164 --> 00:25:43,284 Speaker 1: good spots, or like you know, or you were invited 490 00:25:43,404 --> 00:25:45,404 Speaker 1: for some reason and it's a game that is hard 491 00:25:45,444 --> 00:25:47,924 Speaker 1: to get into, you have to wonder, like you have 492 00:25:47,964 --> 00:25:51,724 Speaker 1: to ask the question why was I allowed to play? Right? 493 00:25:52,364 --> 00:25:56,164 Speaker 1: Is it because of my charming personality and my witty 494 00:25:56,204 --> 00:26:01,004 Speaker 1: banter and table conversation. Maybe, but maybe they just think 495 00:26:01,044 --> 00:26:04,084 Speaker 1: that you're the spot, right, Maybe they actually think that 496 00:26:04,164 --> 00:26:08,084 Speaker 1: you are someone who's good to play with. I had 497 00:26:08,124 --> 00:26:12,404 Speaker 1: a really funny experience a few years ago where I 498 00:26:12,644 --> 00:26:15,684 Speaker 1: someone reached out to me a game runner from one 499 00:26:15,724 --> 00:26:18,764 Speaker 1: of the high stakes games in Las Vegas that is, 500 00:26:18,804 --> 00:26:20,524 Speaker 1: at one of the casinos. I'm not going to mention 501 00:26:20,564 --> 00:26:23,084 Speaker 1: who the runner was or what the game was, and 502 00:26:23,164 --> 00:26:25,284 Speaker 1: it was like, you know, hey, like we'd love for 503 00:26:25,324 --> 00:26:28,204 Speaker 1: you to join us anytime, like when we're when we're 504 00:26:28,204 --> 00:26:30,444 Speaker 1: playing this game, Like we're happy to like pay for 505 00:26:30,484 --> 00:26:35,284 Speaker 1: your airfare to Vegas. And I was like, and I'm 506 00:26:35,324 --> 00:26:38,124 Speaker 1: going to go ahead and say no. And it turned 507 00:26:38,124 --> 00:26:41,804 Speaker 1: out that another friend of mine who's a female poker player, 508 00:26:42,124 --> 00:26:46,004 Speaker 1: got the same invitation, and we were like, huh, like 509 00:26:46,044 --> 00:26:48,044 Speaker 1: do they just really want a girl at the table 510 00:26:48,204 --> 00:26:50,484 Speaker 1: or what does it say about their impression of how 511 00:26:50,524 --> 00:26:53,924 Speaker 1: we play poker at those higher stakes. But the moment, 512 00:26:54,044 --> 00:26:56,564 Speaker 1: you know, you get that invitation and I asked a 513 00:26:56,604 --> 00:26:58,364 Speaker 1: few people about it, They're like, it's a good game, 514 00:26:58,684 --> 00:27:00,844 Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, you know, I'm still still 515 00:27:00,844 --> 00:27:03,524 Speaker 1: not going to do it. Like so that's kind of 516 00:27:03,524 --> 00:27:04,964 Speaker 1: one of the I think that that's some of the 517 00:27:05,004 --> 00:27:06,524 Speaker 1: truth in that Matt Damon quote. 518 00:27:06,604 --> 00:27:08,124 Speaker 2: Yeah, if it's a TV game, it might be that 519 00:27:08,204 --> 00:27:09,884 Speaker 2: might be one of the weird exceptions where like, maybe 520 00:27:09,924 --> 00:27:13,924 Speaker 2: we believe this was not a team again, Okay, that's 521 00:27:13,964 --> 00:27:16,964 Speaker 2: more believe it or not. Relative to the poker world, 522 00:27:17,844 --> 00:27:21,804 Speaker 2: we are normies believe it or not. Right, But yeah, 523 00:27:21,884 --> 00:27:24,524 Speaker 2: you should always be asking like, why have I invited 524 00:27:24,564 --> 00:27:26,724 Speaker 2: to be played in this game that inevitably will be 525 00:27:27,724 --> 00:27:29,484 Speaker 2: portrayed to me? Is very good. The other thing you 526 00:27:29,484 --> 00:27:33,404 Speaker 2: have to watch for, which is not necessarily bad but 527 00:27:33,524 --> 00:27:36,164 Speaker 2: something to be aware of, right, is that if you 528 00:27:36,404 --> 00:27:40,844 Speaker 2: exhibit any reluctance about how high the stakes are, assume 529 00:27:41,604 --> 00:27:45,604 Speaker 2: the de facto steaks are at least two acts higher 530 00:27:45,604 --> 00:27:49,964 Speaker 2: than then the person in body of the game is projecting. 531 00:27:50,084 --> 00:27:52,564 Speaker 2: I think it's a good heuristic to look at. In 532 00:27:52,884 --> 00:27:56,164 Speaker 2: it is a tournament, to say, like to look around 533 00:27:56,164 --> 00:27:59,764 Speaker 2: the table and say where am I making my my 534 00:28:00,084 --> 00:28:03,924 Speaker 2: money from? Right? Or am I making money? If you're 535 00:28:03,924 --> 00:28:06,964 Speaker 2: not making money, then a cash game. If you're having fun, 536 00:28:07,644 --> 00:28:10,844 Speaker 2: stay right. Otherwise leave it a tournament that might affect 537 00:28:10,884 --> 00:28:12,924 Speaker 2: your strategy. It might actually depends on if it's late 538 00:28:12,964 --> 00:28:15,844 Speaker 2: at night. If it's late at night and get a 539 00:28:15,924 --> 00:28:17,564 Speaker 2: new table the next day, you might say, you know what, 540 00:28:17,604 --> 00:28:20,204 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna kind of be a little bit of 541 00:28:20,204 --> 00:28:21,764 Speaker 2: a knit here. I need to. I can wait for 542 00:28:21,764 --> 00:28:23,964 Speaker 2: a better table tomorrow. Right, But in general, actually it's 543 00:28:23,964 --> 00:28:26,564 Speaker 2: the opposite. In general, if you're like, Okay, I'm at 544 00:28:26,564 --> 00:28:30,004 Speaker 2: a tough table. It's ten in the morning, I'm playing 545 00:28:30,084 --> 00:28:32,804 Speaker 2: until ten at night, right, you actually have to take 546 00:28:32,884 --> 00:28:36,164 Speaker 2: more more risk and look for dinner edges because you 547 00:28:36,164 --> 00:28:39,124 Speaker 2: won't find these stick, robust fish that give you big 548 00:28:39,164 --> 00:28:42,364 Speaker 2: free money basically, But I think it's kind of worth 549 00:28:42,364 --> 00:28:44,324 Speaker 2: looking around and saying, where am I making my money 550 00:28:44,364 --> 00:28:47,764 Speaker 2: from in this game? Right, And if you're making a 551 00:28:47,804 --> 00:28:50,964 Speaker 2: lot of money, you might actually pick yours fustle more carefully, 552 00:28:50,964 --> 00:28:54,084 Speaker 2: like in the main event for example, sometimes was obvious. 553 00:28:54,124 --> 00:28:56,164 Speaker 2: So you make a lot of money in poker from 554 00:28:57,284 --> 00:29:02,284 Speaker 2: players who are too passive and sometimes too tight. Right, 555 00:29:02,564 --> 00:29:06,484 Speaker 2: if somebody only folds unless they have a really good hand, 556 00:29:06,884 --> 00:29:08,844 Speaker 2: and then we have a really good hand, then make 557 00:29:08,964 --> 00:29:12,764 Speaker 2: huge opus bets. Right, it's not as fun as picking 558 00:29:12,804 --> 00:29:14,564 Speaker 2: off a bluff or something. You make a lot of 559 00:29:14,604 --> 00:29:16,444 Speaker 2: money from that from that player. 560 00:29:16,244 --> 00:29:20,564 Speaker 1: You do, you do, absolutely absolutely, But yeah, so I 561 00:29:20,604 --> 00:29:24,164 Speaker 1: do think that there there's definite truth to that and 562 00:29:24,324 --> 00:29:28,524 Speaker 1: kind of it's good strategy advice to always look around. 563 00:29:28,684 --> 00:29:30,284 Speaker 1: And by the way, if you can't spot the sucker 564 00:29:30,284 --> 00:29:32,244 Speaker 1: at the table, right, if you can't spot the spot, 565 00:29:33,004 --> 00:29:35,124 Speaker 1: then you probably are the spot. And you want to 566 00:29:35,204 --> 00:29:37,964 Speaker 1: avoid getting into big pots because you will get outplayed. 567 00:29:41,524 --> 00:29:45,164 Speaker 2: And we'll be right back after this break. 568 00:29:57,284 --> 00:29:59,284 Speaker 1: They we've talked about a lot of things that you 569 00:29:59,324 --> 00:30:01,524 Speaker 1: know are bad about poker movies, because most poker movies 570 00:30:01,564 --> 00:30:03,764 Speaker 1: are kind of bad. Do you have any poker movies 571 00:30:03,764 --> 00:30:05,804 Speaker 1: that you'd put on like your bad list where you're like, 572 00:30:05,884 --> 00:30:09,404 Speaker 1: oh my god, like this is just just no, or 573 00:30:09,484 --> 00:30:11,204 Speaker 1: or do we just want to stick to our good 574 00:30:11,244 --> 00:30:11,804 Speaker 1: list here? 575 00:30:12,164 --> 00:30:14,124 Speaker 2: I haven't seen that many. I mean we haven't. You know. 576 00:30:14,204 --> 00:30:18,324 Speaker 2: I liked Rounders. I liked like Molly's Game, right, I 577 00:30:18,324 --> 00:30:21,244 Speaker 2: think that does a better job than than most. 578 00:30:21,444 --> 00:30:24,044 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Molly's Game had some really good consultants. I 579 00:30:24,084 --> 00:30:27,484 Speaker 1: actually know one of the people, David Peretti's, who is 580 00:30:27,524 --> 00:30:30,684 Speaker 1: a poker player, who consulted on some of those poker scenes. 581 00:30:30,844 --> 00:30:33,444 Speaker 1: So they actually asked real players to help them out 582 00:30:33,564 --> 00:30:38,084 Speaker 1: with the choreography of the poker and I think that 583 00:30:38,084 --> 00:30:40,804 Speaker 1: that shows for sure. I think that those those hands 584 00:30:40,844 --> 00:30:44,444 Speaker 1: in Molly's game are both dramatic but also believable, like 585 00:30:44,484 --> 00:30:45,044 Speaker 1: it could happen. 586 00:30:46,444 --> 00:30:48,484 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does it, you know, as a poker player 587 00:30:48,564 --> 00:30:52,404 Speaker 2: to movie makers, right, I'm not asking for a ton, right, 588 00:30:52,524 --> 00:30:56,124 Speaker 2: like just just things that are like that are plausible ish, 589 00:30:56,244 --> 00:30:57,644 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? There are things that kind 590 00:30:57,644 --> 00:31:00,364 Speaker 2: of like and that's like couplemen. Is it like he's 591 00:31:00,404 --> 00:31:02,124 Speaker 2: doing things that are kind of like not literal, but 592 00:31:02,284 --> 00:31:06,124 Speaker 2: like at least kind of in the in the spirit no, 593 00:31:06,204 --> 00:31:09,044 Speaker 2: a nod to real poker basically, yep. 594 00:31:09,564 --> 00:31:12,204 Speaker 1: I think I think that that is the important thing. 595 00:31:13,404 --> 00:31:15,564 Speaker 1: If we were making a movie about you, who'd play you? 596 00:31:16,204 --> 00:31:17,604 Speaker 1: Or if you were if you were in a Parker 597 00:31:17,644 --> 00:31:19,284 Speaker 1: story and you were there. 598 00:31:20,124 --> 00:31:22,324 Speaker 2: I will let the audience speculate. 599 00:31:25,724 --> 00:31:27,164 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be It doesn't have to be 600 00:31:27,204 --> 00:31:29,604 Speaker 1: someone who looks like you, just someone you know, who 601 00:31:29,604 --> 00:31:30,484 Speaker 1: do you think should play you? 602 00:31:32,364 --> 00:31:34,284 Speaker 2: Who do you think should play me? Maria? I don't know, 603 00:31:34,444 --> 00:31:38,764 Speaker 2: it's I'm weirdly I feel like the hems about who 604 00:31:38,764 --> 00:31:39,564 Speaker 2: would you have played me? 605 00:31:40,364 --> 00:31:41,604 Speaker 1: I don't know. I need to think about it. 606 00:31:41,644 --> 00:31:44,164 Speaker 2: Are there good like sports betting movies? 607 00:31:44,204 --> 00:31:44,284 Speaker 1: Like? 608 00:31:44,364 --> 00:31:46,924 Speaker 2: Not really? Right? No? 609 00:31:47,004 --> 00:31:49,004 Speaker 1: I don't think so, I mean not that well no, 610 00:31:49,124 --> 00:31:52,804 Speaker 1: oh wait, no, uncut jumps like absolutely one of the 611 00:31:52,844 --> 00:31:56,524 Speaker 1: most one of the most brilliant movies, Like such a 612 00:31:56,524 --> 00:31:59,764 Speaker 1: good movie, such a stressful movie, like movie at the 613 00:31:59,804 --> 00:32:03,324 Speaker 1: edge of your seat, and like, holy shit, Adam Sandler 614 00:32:03,804 --> 00:32:05,684 Speaker 1: was great. And by the way, Adam Sandler could totally 615 00:32:05,724 --> 00:32:07,564 Speaker 1: play you unate, I would. 616 00:32:07,324 --> 00:32:10,204 Speaker 2: Approve of that. Yeah, no, look, I yeah, I should 617 00:32:10,204 --> 00:32:13,404 Speaker 2: have brought that up earlier, because that, like that captures 618 00:32:14,684 --> 00:32:18,164 Speaker 2: the degeneracy of this character is like a little bit addled, 619 00:32:18,484 --> 00:32:21,764 Speaker 2: kind of that rang true to me, right, and like, 620 00:32:21,844 --> 00:32:23,644 Speaker 2: you know, I'm not saying it's the average gambler, but 621 00:32:23,684 --> 00:32:25,324 Speaker 2: like that's a really you know, that might be the 622 00:32:25,324 --> 00:32:27,044 Speaker 2: best gambling adjacent No he's not. 623 00:32:27,124 --> 00:32:29,324 Speaker 1: I don't think. Yeah, I don't think he's the average 624 00:32:29,324 --> 00:32:32,524 Speaker 1: gambler by far. Like he is at the very very 625 00:32:32,564 --> 00:32:35,284 Speaker 1: dejense like end of the spectrum. But he just like 626 00:32:35,444 --> 00:32:39,124 Speaker 1: he kept that movie Sandler himself, and just the movie 627 00:32:39,604 --> 00:32:43,244 Speaker 1: captures that energy and kind of that mindset so incredibly well. 628 00:32:43,364 --> 00:32:45,244 Speaker 1: By the way, if you haven't seen it, we won't 629 00:32:45,244 --> 00:32:48,284 Speaker 1: spoiler here, you should watch it, but it's such a 630 00:32:48,284 --> 00:32:50,484 Speaker 1: stressful movie. Don't watch it as like a way to 631 00:32:50,564 --> 00:32:53,324 Speaker 1: relax before bed, Like it's one of those movies where 632 00:32:53,364 --> 00:32:57,084 Speaker 1: you're just like stressed the entire time, even when nothing 633 00:32:57,084 --> 00:33:01,644 Speaker 1: particularly stressful is happening. Anyway, that movie, I think is 634 00:33:01,684 --> 00:33:04,564 Speaker 1: one of the best gambling movies I've ever seen. It's 635 00:33:04,684 --> 00:33:08,764 Speaker 1: just absolutely brilliant in terms of capturing the spirit of 636 00:33:08,804 --> 00:33:11,644 Speaker 1: the thing. It also made me understand Parlay's nate and 637 00:33:11,684 --> 00:33:13,764 Speaker 1: how hard it is to hit your parlay. But I 638 00:33:13,804 --> 00:33:17,044 Speaker 1: actually like that movie explains it so well because it 639 00:33:17,124 --> 00:33:20,604 Speaker 1: shows it right. It shows like how it accumulates, how 640 00:33:20,604 --> 00:33:23,484 Speaker 1: you have to hit different points, like what has to happen, 641 00:33:23,524 --> 00:33:25,604 Speaker 1: and how many things have to go right, which is 642 00:33:25,604 --> 00:33:28,724 Speaker 1: why parlays are stupid bets, as you've told me multiple times, 643 00:33:29,364 --> 00:33:31,804 Speaker 1: and I think as lots of people have told me. 644 00:33:32,164 --> 00:33:33,444 Speaker 1: But you can make a ton of money. 645 00:33:34,004 --> 00:33:36,484 Speaker 2: I mean, they just they aren't inherently they just high risk, right, 646 00:33:36,484 --> 00:33:38,924 Speaker 2: you're basically taking the windows. They're very high risk, right, right, 647 00:33:39,044 --> 00:33:41,964 Speaker 2: automatically betting on the next game, right, And so yeah, exactly. 648 00:33:42,004 --> 00:33:44,164 Speaker 2: But you know, there's there's a reason why there's a 649 00:33:44,204 --> 00:33:47,564 Speaker 2: reason why they're popular, you know, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, 650 00:33:48,124 --> 00:33:50,124 Speaker 2: you know, some people think blackjack is boring because you 651 00:33:50,124 --> 00:33:51,764 Speaker 2: basically win or lose one x your bet. You can 652 00:33:51,804 --> 00:33:55,124 Speaker 2: double down and stuff like that and split. But you know, 653 00:33:55,764 --> 00:33:58,324 Speaker 2: all right, Maria, we talked about this TV show you're 654 00:33:58,324 --> 00:34:01,884 Speaker 2: working on, But if you are making a proper poker movie, 655 00:34:02,484 --> 00:34:03,204 Speaker 2: what would it be about. 656 00:34:03,364 --> 00:34:05,724 Speaker 1: You'd make it about the biggest bluff. Okay, it would 657 00:34:05,804 --> 00:34:08,804 Speaker 1: make my book into a poker movie. Duh, that's the 658 00:34:08,804 --> 00:34:12,764 Speaker 1: poker movie that absolutely needs to be made. So people 659 00:34:12,884 --> 00:34:15,604 Speaker 1: making movies listening to this do it. 660 00:34:17,364 --> 00:34:19,444 Speaker 2: I mean, I think gamblers in general, I mean, first 661 00:34:19,444 --> 00:34:21,244 Speaker 2: of all, you have like the degenerate gambler versus a 662 00:34:21,284 --> 00:34:23,604 Speaker 2: creational gambler's kind of like a still gambler. They all 663 00:34:24,284 --> 00:34:26,244 Speaker 2: kind of co mingle. But like, I don't know, if 664 00:34:26,244 --> 00:34:28,604 Speaker 2: we're determined to make a good a good movie about 665 00:34:28,604 --> 00:34:30,324 Speaker 2: the kind of poker gambling lifetime, we could, we could. 666 00:34:30,484 --> 00:34:32,924 Speaker 2: We'd ham it up a little bit, Maria, the purists 667 00:34:33,284 --> 00:34:35,284 Speaker 2: we critique some things. We could do a good job, though. 668 00:34:35,364 --> 00:34:36,764 Speaker 2: I believe we would. 669 00:34:37,204 --> 00:34:40,084 Speaker 1: I think so. I think so. And in terms of 670 00:34:40,444 --> 00:34:43,364 Speaker 1: you know, who'd play me, it depends on when the 671 00:34:43,364 --> 00:34:46,124 Speaker 1: movie gets made, because you know, I keep getting older, 672 00:34:46,164 --> 00:34:50,084 Speaker 1: but fictional me does not. But someone who is already 673 00:34:50,084 --> 00:34:51,684 Speaker 1: a little bit older than I am, but you know, 674 00:34:51,924 --> 00:34:54,124 Speaker 1: is a is a movie star, so that doesn't really matter. 675 00:34:54,964 --> 00:34:58,364 Speaker 1: But who has a similar background and so I would 676 00:34:58,444 --> 00:35:00,844 Speaker 1: love for her to play me would be Natalie Portman. 677 00:35:02,044 --> 00:35:05,524 Speaker 1: She's also one of the good thing, one of the few. Yeah, yeah, 678 00:35:05,564 --> 00:35:07,404 Speaker 1: you know, we went to Harvard together. She was older, 679 00:35:07,444 --> 00:35:10,004 Speaker 1: she was ahead of me. She studied psychology us like me. 680 00:35:10,684 --> 00:35:13,244 Speaker 1: You know, she's Jewish. I'm Jewish. There are not that 681 00:35:13,324 --> 00:35:17,164 Speaker 1: many Jewish leading ladies in Hollywood. I would definitely want 682 00:35:17,644 --> 00:35:19,804 Speaker 1: her to be me if possible. 683 00:35:20,284 --> 00:35:25,564 Speaker 2: Hey, Natalie, there are actors who played poker. Matt Damon, 684 00:35:25,764 --> 00:35:28,044 Speaker 2: there are does, Till McGuire does I'm not sure there 685 00:35:28,044 --> 00:35:32,124 Speaker 2: are any who were regarded as being particularly nor McDonald 686 00:35:32,204 --> 00:35:33,244 Speaker 2: the comedian like poker. 687 00:35:34,564 --> 00:35:36,124 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, there are a ton. I mean, there's a 688 00:35:36,164 --> 00:35:40,284 Speaker 1: lot of overlap. Leonardo DiCaprio plays poker, Matt Damon in 689 00:35:40,324 --> 00:35:45,444 Speaker 1: real life loves poker, Ben Affleck, Wahlberg, like that whole 690 00:35:45,484 --> 00:35:49,724 Speaker 1: crew from Boston plays poker. I don't know about Casey Affleck, 691 00:35:49,724 --> 00:35:52,604 Speaker 1: but I would assume he plays as well. You know, 692 00:35:52,884 --> 00:35:56,564 Speaker 1: there are lots of star power poker players. In terms 693 00:35:56,604 --> 00:35:59,964 Speaker 1: of who's actually considered good, Nate, Let's not go there. 694 00:36:00,204 --> 00:36:03,404 Speaker 1: We're sure that they're all excellent players, and we would 695 00:36:03,444 --> 00:36:06,724 Speaker 1: love to sit at a game with them and be 696 00:36:06,804 --> 00:36:10,804 Speaker 1: able to compliment them on their level and on how 697 00:36:11,324 --> 00:36:12,484 Speaker 1: brilliantly they play. 698 00:36:13,204 --> 00:36:15,444 Speaker 2: Right, if you're at the World Stories of Poker, would 699 00:36:15,444 --> 00:36:21,244 Speaker 2: you rather it's against an actor or a professional athlete 700 00:36:21,604 --> 00:36:22,244 Speaker 2: rather acting? 701 00:36:22,684 --> 00:36:25,484 Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, actor immediately, I mean, I have just 702 00:36:25,524 --> 00:36:28,924 Speaker 1: an immediate answer. Professional athletes are often very good poker 703 00:36:28,924 --> 00:36:33,284 Speaker 1: players because they just, like you know, they compete for 704 00:36:33,404 --> 00:36:37,284 Speaker 1: a living, and they have that they have that sense 705 00:36:37,524 --> 00:36:41,164 Speaker 1: of competition, they have that hunger to win, they have 706 00:36:41,244 --> 00:36:44,444 Speaker 1: the aggressiveness like a lot of them make, you know, 707 00:36:44,524 --> 00:36:47,964 Speaker 1: like Richard Seymour, who's an excellent poker player. Like a 708 00:36:47,964 --> 00:36:50,924 Speaker 1: lot of them make really good poker players because they 709 00:36:51,004 --> 00:36:54,244 Speaker 1: understand it right, and they're smart like athletes are. And 710 00:36:54,284 --> 00:36:56,964 Speaker 1: I'm not saying actors aren't smart, but acting is a 711 00:36:57,044 --> 00:36:59,044 Speaker 1: different You can be very smart, but you're in a 712 00:36:59,044 --> 00:37:02,364 Speaker 1: different profession, right, Like and you might say, oh, actors 713 00:37:02,404 --> 00:37:05,364 Speaker 1: have better poker faces, that doesn't really matter. Most people 714 00:37:05,364 --> 00:37:08,044 Speaker 1: have good poker faces. Like that's actually not that important. 715 00:37:09,084 --> 00:37:13,324 Speaker 1: But the like the competitive spirit and like understanding aggression, 716 00:37:13,484 --> 00:37:17,084 Speaker 1: knowing how to gauge that reading your opponents. I mean, 717 00:37:17,124 --> 00:37:20,484 Speaker 1: if you're a thinking like imagine being a quarterback, right, 718 00:37:20,484 --> 00:37:22,764 Speaker 1: you have to be reading people all the time. Like 719 00:37:22,844 --> 00:37:25,884 Speaker 1: if you're a thinking athlete like man, you're going to 720 00:37:25,924 --> 00:37:27,324 Speaker 1: be formidable at the pokering table. 721 00:37:27,444 --> 00:37:31,124 Speaker 2: Yeah. Game theory comes up a lot absolutely in sports, 722 00:37:31,204 --> 00:37:34,164 Speaker 2: right for tennis it comes up a lot, right. Uh yeah, 723 00:37:34,244 --> 00:37:38,564 Speaker 2: A starting picture Greg Maddox, great Atlanta Braves picture literally 724 00:37:38,604 --> 00:37:42,204 Speaker 2: would randomize his calls allegedly based on the stadium whites 725 00:37:42,244 --> 00:37:43,924 Speaker 2: and things like that. And he's a Las Vegas guy 726 00:37:43,924 --> 00:37:48,364 Speaker 2: who I believe plays poker pretty well. Yeah, so yeah, 727 00:37:48,404 --> 00:37:51,124 Speaker 2: the athlete and they're competitive, right yeah, actor actors is 728 00:37:51,324 --> 00:37:56,044 Speaker 2: probably maybe like a plastic surgeon, if you yeah, like 729 00:37:57,684 --> 00:38:00,564 Speaker 2: the plastic surgeon, like a real estate I guess I 730 00:38:00,644 --> 00:38:02,764 Speaker 2: have some real estate people in one of my home games, 731 00:38:02,764 --> 00:38:04,524 Speaker 2: so maybe I should. They're great at poker, of course, 732 00:38:04,524 --> 00:38:06,684 Speaker 2: real estates. Well we'll quit while we're ahead. 733 00:38:06,724 --> 00:38:11,804 Speaker 1: Well quit, well we're ahead. What's your So what's your 734 00:38:11,924 --> 00:38:14,164 Speaker 1: if you're gonna be if we're sitting down for you know, 735 00:38:14,204 --> 00:38:17,444 Speaker 1: a night of rounders rewatching or whatever it is, what 736 00:38:17,524 --> 00:38:19,884 Speaker 1: are we gonna be serving. What's your favorite movie snack? 737 00:38:20,964 --> 00:38:24,324 Speaker 2: Uh? Nice class of peanut? NOI yeah, I'm not a 738 00:38:24,324 --> 00:38:27,084 Speaker 2: thing snacker? Do you know that, Maria, I'm I'm totally 739 00:38:27,164 --> 00:38:27,484 Speaker 2: with you. 740 00:38:27,604 --> 00:38:31,084 Speaker 1: Nate. Let's let's let's let's get a bottle of wine. Yeah, 741 00:38:31,124 --> 00:38:33,484 Speaker 1: and do a poker movie night. That would be my 742 00:38:33,564 --> 00:38:34,204 Speaker 1: favorite snack. 743 00:38:34,324 --> 00:38:36,404 Speaker 2: I have enough other sins where like snacking is like 744 00:38:36,404 --> 00:38:37,124 Speaker 2: the one I don't have. 745 00:38:37,204 --> 00:38:42,444 Speaker 1: Basically now, I don't snack, and I actually, fellow listeners, 746 00:38:42,484 --> 00:38:44,964 Speaker 1: if you ever watch a movie with me, please do 747 00:38:45,084 --> 00:38:47,644 Speaker 1: not be eating. I hate like the sound of like 748 00:38:47,684 --> 00:38:51,244 Speaker 1: someone eating popcorn next to me. Like, please know, it's 749 00:38:51,244 --> 00:38:52,564 Speaker 1: a me thing. It's it's not. 750 00:38:52,684 --> 00:38:53,364 Speaker 2: You, it's me. 751 00:38:53,924 --> 00:38:56,604 Speaker 1: But like, come on, let's let's watch the movie and 752 00:38:56,764 --> 00:38:59,484 Speaker 1: enjoy the movie. You don't have to be snacking literally 753 00:38:59,524 --> 00:39:01,444 Speaker 1: all the time. Let's have a nice dinner before or 754 00:39:01,484 --> 00:39:04,324 Speaker 1: after and then enjoy the movie. So Nate, well, we'll 755 00:39:04,364 --> 00:39:06,724 Speaker 1: have a nice bottle of wine if we're watching the 756 00:39:06,724 --> 00:39:09,164 Speaker 1: movie and then having dinner. If we've already had dinner, 757 00:39:09,444 --> 00:39:11,964 Speaker 1: you know, maybe we have some whiskey or you know, 758 00:39:12,044 --> 00:39:16,484 Speaker 1: a nice some after dinner, some after dinner libations. I 759 00:39:16,484 --> 00:39:22,124 Speaker 1: think that's my ideal movie night, comfortable couch, nice alcohol 760 00:39:22,484 --> 00:39:26,244 Speaker 1: and nice screen. You know, let's uh, let's do it 761 00:39:26,324 --> 00:39:28,884 Speaker 1: and and poker that as you say, nay, you don't 762 00:39:28,884 --> 00:39:31,004 Speaker 1: have to be perfect, but like, let's get it semi 763 00:39:31,044 --> 00:39:35,484 Speaker 1: believable so that we can get invested. And the end 764 00:39:35,484 --> 00:39:38,324 Speaker 1: to my ideal movie night, it's you know, Natalie Portman 765 00:39:38,404 --> 00:39:41,044 Speaker 1: playing me on the screen. So let's make it happen. 766 00:39:47,804 --> 00:39:49,604 Speaker 1: Let us know what you think of the show. Reach 767 00:39:49,644 --> 00:39:53,444 Speaker 1: out to us at Risky Business at pushkin dot FM. 768 00:39:53,564 --> 00:39:56,964 Speaker 1: Risky Business is hosted by me Maria Kanakova. 769 00:39:56,364 --> 00:39:59,124 Speaker 2: And by me Nate Silver. The show was a Cool 770 00:39:59,124 --> 00:40:03,084 Speaker 2: production of Pushing Industries and iHeartMedia. This episode was produced 771 00:40:03,124 --> 00:40:07,444 Speaker 2: by Isaac Carter. Our associate producer is Sonya gerwit Lydia, 772 00:40:07,564 --> 00:40:10,444 Speaker 2: Jean Kott and Daphne Chen are our editors, and our 773 00:40:10,484 --> 00:40:14,244 Speaker 2: executive producer is Jacob Goldstein. Mixing by Sarah Bruger. 774 00:40:14,844 --> 00:40:17,084 Speaker 1: If you like the show, please rate and review us 775 00:40:17,124 --> 00:40:19,764 Speaker 1: so other people can find us too, But once again, 776 00:40:19,884 --> 00:40:21,724 Speaker 1: only if you like us. We don't want those bad 777 00:40:21,764 --> 00:40:23,924 Speaker 1: reviews out there. Thanks for tuning in.